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Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Ep 1255 | Jihad vs. Jesus: Islam’s Plan to Conquer Christian America | Raymond Ibrahim
01:22:42
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- [00:04]
A
When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn more at WhatsApp.com the Sword vs the Scimitar the war between Christians and Muslims has been waging for thousands of years. It is still waging today in ways that you may not realize today. We've got Raymond Ibrahim here with us. He is a scholar when it comes to the history of Islam and its battle against the west and specifically against Christianity. Y', all. This is an absolutely fascinating conversation that you are going to learn so much from. So get ready for it. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Constitution Wealth. Christian investors are often shocked to learn that their portfolios include companies supporting causes that go against their faith. That's why I trust Constitution Wealth. They screen investments so your money isn't propping up agendas that conflict with scripture. Constitutionwealth.com ally for a free consultation. That's constitutionwealth.com Raymond, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. Could you tell everyone who you are and what you do?
- [01:39]
B
Yeah, sure. Thanks Ali. Thanks for having me. Well, how far back do we go?
- [01:43]
A
But you can go as far back as you want to. Maybe start reset and then we can back up.
- [01:47]
B
Yeah, well I'll actually start from the back. But real quick summary blitz. Okay, sure. So my family is from Egypt. My mom and father, they're Coptic clips Christians who came here in the late 60s. I was born here, early 70s, 73 in New Jersey which at the at the time when we were born there there weren't cops or even many Egyptians. But I guess now it's like a little Egyptian town. So it's one of the oldest. But anyway, then we moved out to California when I was 12, moved around. But as far as this field, how I got into all this, obviously because of my family background I was interested, especially their Christian background from an Islamic nation, Egypt. Obviously that kind of created an interest for me right away from early on concerning the nexus of Christianity in Islam. Yeah, even as a child I was interested in that. And so anyway, long story short, I went, I went to Fresno State and got a my history degree where Victor Davis Hansen, who everyone seems to know now. It's funny because at the Time when I knew him, we're talking like 25 years ago. He was, you know, he was famous at Fresno State, but he was just a classicist, a historian who writes military history. And I took those kinds of courses with him. Anyway, I got my degree in history, and I was focusing on Islam and Christianity again, including with languages I was studying, like Greek and Arabic. And so my very first. My thesis was actually about the very first military encounter between Islam and Christendom, the most decisive one, which was the Battle of Yarmouk in the year 636. Anyway, then 911 happened right around when I was finishing up my thesis. And that's what really piqued my interest originally, because I was always just involved in history and philosophy and theology, and I always thought of it as on its own over there. And then what happens in the now, especially because I was still younger and, you know, drinking the Kool Aid that the media was offering us about Islam. And I just thought it was, you know, it's not what it used to be. And then 911 happened, and I started reading what Osama bin Laden was saying in Arabic. And it wasn't what he was saying to Americans. It was very different. It was actually. He was actually quoting oftentimes verbatim, the stuff that I was. I was writing in my thesis, which was written hundreds of years ago. And that's how he was thinking. So that immediately piqued my interest, the continuity that actually, what I was studying, you know, the Islamic conquests of the 7th century, which are seen as some sort of, you know, esoteric, you know, academic pursuit, were actually very much alive for these guys who were declared war on the United States, essentially.
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A
And what was that. What was bin Laden saying in Arabic that he wasn't saying in English?
- [04:34]
B
Yeah, okay. So fast forward now after. So I write my thesis and 911 happens. And then even talking with Victor Davis Hansen, he's like, you should really continue on. And I ended up going to Georgetown University, the Center of Contemporary Arab Studies, which now I understand the political, you know, significance of it. Maybe I'll get into that. But I was a naive student at the time anyway. And then I got a job at the Library of Congress in the near east section, and where I was like a kid in a toy store, because there was all these books in all these languages, and I would peruse through them. And so this is how we get to bin Laden. Then I came across uncatalogged writings from the Arab world because the Arab world, the whole world sends books to the to the Library of Congress writings from Osama bin Laden. And up until then. So what I was reading earlier from the news was Osama bin Laden saying, hey, we did this to you because you did this to us. This is about reciprocal treatment. You, you've. And his grievance list was just endless.
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A
Okay, well that was circulating on tikt recently and there were Americans, college students saying, wow, maybe Osama bin Laden was right. And it was basically that, look, this is the reason we attacked you, because of all of this awful stuff that America has done. But you're saying that's not what he was saying in Arabic.
- [05:57]
B
No. So that's what he was saying. That's what the BBC and CNN and even Fox News were disseminating, which was this grievance mantra. Okay. And it went from everything from because you support Israel, from because of colonialism, from because of not signing the Kyoto Protocol for the environment. It was just like an endless list. Right. Which was absurd, but a lot of people were believing it. Okay. It was for the Crusades and how you guys did X, Y and Z then. So now I'm at the Library of Congress and I come through all these Arabic books and I find actual treatises written by Osama bin Laden and Ayman Zawahri and now they're talking to Arabs and Muslims in Arabic and it's a completely different story. Okay. Now it's. They don't mention any grievances now it's just what we as Muslims must hate these people because they're care for their infidels. They are our enemies no matter what. Even if they're nice to us, we have to hate them. And within all this, of course, it's punctuated by Islamic scriptures validating their arguments. Right.
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A
This is what you read from sources written by bin Laden in a Library of Congress right after 9, 11 happened.
- [07:00]
B
Yeah, this would be probably around 2003. I came across all this.
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A
Wow.
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B
And then, you know, so long story short, I, I was taken aback. And this is so when I told you, you know, my eyes were open that how like they were talking about the past. It was during that time, okay. When it happened, when I was still writing my thesis, I was just amazed that, you know, just the, the general jihad mentality thing was still happening. And so anyway, long story short, with those writings and we'll. Which brings us up to what you're talking about. The TikTok thing is I translated the book. I got a book deals published by Doubleday in 2007. It's called the Al Qaeda reader. And what I did is I juxtaposed what Al Qaeda had been saying to Westerners directly, which was all just grievances and, you know, if you leave us alone, we'll leave you alone. And then I put what they were saying to Muslims and it was basically isis. Okay. As you know, with isis, they're unapologetic about their hatred for infidels. It has isis to their credit, has gone on record to say, we hate you on principle, not because of what you've done. So at least they're being honest.
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A
So they're not using the propaganda. So why is it that Al Qaeda or bin Laden was using these propagandistic tools that we often see from China, Russia, these other actors that don't like the United States, which is they're like festering and digging into the divisions that we already have. They're appealing to progressives, maybe sometimes they're appealing to someone else trying to garner sympathy. So why does ISIS not take that approach, but Al Qaeda does?
- [08:33]
B
Well, that's actually a good question. So with Al Qaeda, you know, they was effective, what they were doing, because they were addressing the west. Like I said, yeah. Pulling on their heartstrings and making very, yeah, of course, making very, very, very good arguments. So when the TikTok thing came out recently, this was great for me because I managed to write several articles by simply recycling what I had written from 15 years ago and showing how. Because they were actually citing the same stuff that I had debunked in the Al Qaeda reader. Because they would take letters where he said, you know, oh, America did this to us. This is why we're fighting back. And then I had shown how in another letter to Muslims, he said, well, it actually doesn't matter. There are enemies per se. Okay, Right. So they were actually kind of smart and what they were doing is exploiting sort of Western guilt.
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A
Right.
- [09:19]
B
Which is at an all time high, as usual. It's something no other civilization has for whatever reason. Maybe we'll get into that. Whereas isis, and that's actually a good question, why doesn't ISIS do this? And you know, there's a lot of conspiratorial theories as to why, but one of them, you know, on the surface would be that they're just, they're just, you know, they're not going to play that game. They're proud. We're not going to humor you. We want you to know you're a filthy infidel, we hate your guts, and we're not scared of you whereas Al Qaeda and other Islamist kind of organizations, you know, it's, it's a little dishonorable what they're doing because they're being two faced and they get exposed as I had exposed them at the time. So and, but still you still have both elements. A lot of, I would say the vast majority of Islamist type organizations and individuals still play the guilt card with your average Westerner because your average Westerner is pretty ignorant about actually what what had happened between Islam and the west historically foreign.
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A
Pause to remind you guys if you were not able to make sure the arrows or even if you were and you want to see the recording of it, it will be available to Blaze TV subscribers this Monday, October 20th. All you have to do is subscribe to BlazeTV blazetv.com ally you can use promo code ally. You'll get 20 off the subscription and you won't only get to see Share the arrows our Christian women's conference. You'll also be able to access all all kinds of Blaze TV subscriber exclusive content. So check that out. Blazetv.com ally before we get back into that fascinating conversation, let me tell you about EveryLife. EveryLife is America's pro Life diaper company. They are the company that we we use for our diapers and wipes. Super effective clean materials love. This is a pro life company that donates to pro life causes and pregnancy centers across the country. Unlike most other diaper companies. But they don't just make diapers now. They have a new line called Every Life Women. This is a clean premium feminine care line that boldly proclaims God's truth that womanhood is beautiful, that it's intentional and that it is worthy of celebration. They've got a new line of period care that includes pads, tampons, period underwear and even a postpartum recovery bundle. Sorry, related bros out there. This ad is only for the related gals. Go to everylife.com woman use code ALI10 to save on every Life Women because womanhood is not up for debate. It's beautifully and intentionally designed by God. That's everylife.com women code ali10 okay, let's go back to the basics. I just want to know from your study, what is Islam like? What do they believe?
- [12:04]
B
Okay, Islam. Well, let's start with the word Islam it comes. And here as I explained to you, you're going to see a lot of, a lot of things that you had heard and how they were wrong. So one of the things that maybe you've heard is Islam means Peace, Right. And you know, again, as usual, all the great lies have some truth to them. So the word, in Arabic words are always cognates of certain roots. And the word for peace and the word for submission, which is what Islam is, are actually the same root. And so Islam means that Salem is peace. Islam means submit and have peace. Okay, all right. So that's the religion, that's its very name. And a Muslim, we say Muslim and they don't like that because in Arabic, a Muslim means someone who's oppressed, but a Muslim to pronounce it very well.
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A
I didn't know that they didn't like that name.
- [12:57]
B
Well, no, no, their name is Muslim, but Americans pronounce it Muslim. And that's an Arabic word too.
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A
It's just different.
- [13:04]
B
It means you're an oppressed person. So it's an interesting pun that Americans are calling them oppressed, which. Okay, yeah, anyway, so a Muslim or a Muslim is someone who has submitted, which begs the question, what are they submitting to? And this is where what's known as Islamic law or sharia comes into play. And Islam, I think the best way to understand it and the problem that Christians have is they tend to project their sort of religious character onto other people. And they think because, you know, Christianity is. Has a very spiritual element and it's not about the law, at least modern day Christianity, they think that's how Islam is. But Islam is actually, it has nothing to do with, you know, the condition of your heart with God. It's just laws. It's like, how do you live your daily life? All right? And it's actually so codified that most people don't know this. There's actually everything in the world that you can do in Islam. There's five categories. It's either obligatory. So like the five pillars, right? The prayers and the fasting, the zigat. It's recommended, you should do it, but you won't be punished. It's neutral, okay? It doesn't matter. It's disliked. You don't have to not do it, but if you do, we'd rather you don't. And then it's forbidden everything in life. Like, I mean, so that's. I mean, when you think about that, that's not how most people think of religion, right? It's so it's that codified. And then for our purposes, and I always say this because a lot of people, you know, when they get, when they talk negatively or criticize Islam, they just talk about everything. Whereas for me, I think what's interesting and useful is to just ascertain the things about Islam that are negative towards me as a non Muslim. Okay. And they're actually quite limited, but they're also far reaching. And they are. Basically, I've, I've narrowed them down to three doctrines. One, and I can tell you the name in Arabic, but it basically it preaches love and loyalty for fellow Muslims and hatred for non Muslims, which is why Al Qaeda and ISIS would say, irrespective of what the infidel does, we have to hate them all. Right.
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A
Every type of Muslim.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Nishia.
- [15:12]
A
So even those. Because I've noticed as Islam has come to the west and more of our neighbors are Muslim and you know, they've got their social media presence and when you see the snippets of their sermons or whatever you know, they call it in their services, it doesn't sound that different than what a lot of pastors in Christian churches will say. They'll say, show the other gender, double honor, be friendly neighbors, serve others. And it's like, I think to a lot of people it's like, well, that must be a different kind of Islam than the Islam that we're seeing in Afghanistan. But what you're saying is every single Muslim everywhere abides by the principles you're talking about.
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B
I wouldn't go so far to say that because I would say I know how every Muslim believes. What I'm saying is this is what Islam teaches.
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A
Yeah.
- [16:00]
B
And if you want to be a representative and a true follower of Islam, that's what you will do. But I mean, if you want to be a homosexual Muslim and say I'm, you can do that, but obviously you're going against the religion. Well, so what I mean is what, here's what's going on. The, the so called moderate Muslims, they exist. And some of them, you know, whether it's a pretense, some of them, it may be sincere. But what it, what, what we need to understand is they're not representative of Islam. Okay. So what we do is the dichotomy that's sort of pushed on us is that you have a moderate Muslim who's apparently following true Islam and then you have the radicals who are like twisting it and turning it into something violent.
- [16:37]
A
That's what we in the west think.
- [16:39]
B
That's what we think. The truth is you still, you do have the two groups. But what the truth is is that the so called radical is actually following normative mainstream Islam, which by our standards is radical, but not by Their standards. And the so called moderate Muslim, if he's truly moderate, and he may be, he or she, he's just not following it. It's like saying I'm a Christian, but then I do all sorts of things that are just completely not part of Christianity. Okay, so you can do that, but you're not representing true Christianity. So that's, I think the dichotomy exists. You do have that and that. But the, the falsehood is thinking that the guys who act moderate represent real Islam and the other guys represent false Islam. It's actually the other way around.
- [17:23]
A
So true Islam teaches that there is a love and loyalty towards other Muslims and a hatred for all infidels.
- [17:30]
B
Yeah. So the radicals will be upfront. The ISIS types will be proud about it and we'll talk about it. The other ones will. So when you talk about, you know, you've listened to one of their sermons and it sounds not unlike a Christian pastor. Okay, Well, a lot of that is because they know about those doctrines, but they also know there's a lot of infidels around them and word can get out. So they try not to talk about that too much. Whereas if it's in the Islamic world where they're comfortable and they don't, you know, what about info? Then they talk about it and it becomes very. So, so it's, it is obviously for show. I'll give you a very an anecdote. When I, when I worked at the Library of Congress, which kind of, you know, speaks to what we're talking about, there were a lot of Muslims that worked there. And you know, I was actually friendly with a lot of them. And one of them, you know, I could tell he was a radical. You know, like deep down inside he had the, like the, the, he was a Salafi, which, you know, he had like a beard and it was red and they Javed the Muslim. Which I understand what that means. It means he's, I'm following Muhammad to a T. And. But then he would act moderate and talk about, no, no, we can be friends with the non Muslim. So I would debate him, just me and him, like sitting at a cafeteria and be like, well, what about the verse that says you have to hate the Muslims? And what about the, the verse about jihad and, and this and that? And, and then I, we started talking about, and this is important for everyone, for not for Westerners to understand. There's this whole thing about abrogation in the Quran. Okay. Because the Quran was revealed piecemeal to Muhammad and over years you will find contradictions. And so what the moderates will do is they'll take the good stuff, right? And most of the violent stuff comes later in Muhammad's career. And the reason for that is in his, in the beginning of his career he was weak, outnumbered, so it was actually beneficial for him to preach. You know, you have your religion, I have my religion, which is one of the verses in the Quran and there's no compulsion in religion. These are the verses that moderates always quote and they are in the Quran, okay? But then when he became stronger, he went on the war path and then the jihad, the jihading began, okay, in the conquest. And that's when he started receiving the militants, the ones that I'm talking about, okay? They ha, you gotta hate them, you can't befriend them, you have to wage jihad on them. Quran 9:29, it's known as one of the sword verses and it basically says fight the people of the book, which means the Jews and the Christians until they pay tribute and feel themselves humbled, okay? And that right there was an open ended declaration of non stop war against Jews and Christians, okay? And, and, and that's like they're the lucky ones because the other sword verse talks about the pagans and they're just to be killed right away. They don't even, they can't even pay tribute theoretically. Okay, so, so these are the violent verses that come later. Now the abrogation was the Muslim scholars later on were how do we make sense of the peaceful and the violent? Well, which do we follow? And the abrogation idea is whatever came later in Muhammad's lifetime supplants the earlier one, okay? And, and that's the final word. So the earlier one mattered during the 10 years that Muhammad was weak, for example, but they don't pertain to us anymore, us as Muslims. And the other view, which is very similar, says no, they both work. And it depends on the particular Muslim today where he finds himself. So if you find yourself in a strong position, you should go by the militant violent one. If you find yourself weak like Muhammad was, then you should preach peace and tolerance, okay? And they're known as the older peaceful ones are the Mecca verses and the more violent one are the Medina verses because that's where they were revealed later. He went to Medina, became stronger. So I told this Muslim guy about that and at first he kind of acted dumb, like, oh, I don't know about that because he kept saying, no, no, I believe in, in peace, but I already know, I Can tell he's a radical. And then finally he got really frustrated and he says, well, what do you want from me? I live in Mecca. And what he meant is, I am following this peaceful Meccan verses because like Muhammad when he was weak and outnumbered in Mecca, I'm in Washington D.C. weak and outnumbered by all you infidels. So of course I'm going to preach the peace. So, okay, so that's, you know, to me that was very telling and eye opening and I think elements of that.
- [21:44]
A
Wow, that makes so much sense actually to how it has infiltrated Western civilization. Because when Muslims are outnumbered, they sound and act a lot like their Christian neighbors. And then your Christian neighbors, in the name of love and helping, you know, the people around us are thinking, well, I mean, we're all basically the same, we all worship the same God. But that's not quite right.
- [22:08]
B
Nope, it's not at all. And Muslims understand that and they're exploiting it because it's beneficial to them. It works just perfectly. And then. And see, and that's the, and that's one of the reasons Muslims can get away with this mostly in the west, because Westerners come from a Christian heritage, whether they are or aren't. And even if they're not Christians, you know, Christian ideas have so suffused their world view. You know, all that stuff that, you know, originally when liberalism was still not crazy and it was good, you know, being nice to people and helping them, that comes from a Christian framework and didn't just develop out of nowhere and you know, giving, giving the guy, you know, giving someone the benefit of the doubt and being helpful. So that's why, you know, it's like you're mixing two bad groups. One is very susceptible to being exploited.
- [22:53]
A
Yeah.
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B
And the other is going to exploit as much as it can. Okay. And so that's sort of what's happening.
- [23:04]
A
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- [24:13]
B
Right. So the love and the hate, that's actually, it's in Arabic, it's known as al wala wal bara. It's actually one doctrine. The second doctrine is. And the way I explain it is. And so by the way, before we leave the love and the hate, the best and easiest way I think to understand it is it's tribalism, it's deified tribalism. It's now, you know, it's not, it's, you know, we are Muslims, we hate you. You know, so it's almost, it's kind of like racism, okay. But it's not about race, it's about religion. It's religious supremacism. Okay? So we don't deal with you. You know, Muslims are brothers to each other, even if one is Arab and one is Turkish or black. And theoretically that's how it should be. And you know, the infidel, we have to hate him. Now that obviously leads to the next, more important, more familiar doctrine, jihad. So jihad is warfare to conquer the non Muslim world. And the reason the that love and hate is so powerful, because you need an ideology like that to fuel jihad. Because now if I always hate you because you're the tribal outsider, I'm, it's going to make sense for me to want to fight you and subvert you and kill you and enslave you and whatever because you are the enemy and God tells me to hate you.
- [25:24]
A
And jihad means literally jihad.
- [25:26]
B
Okay? So jihad, well, you know, when you translate a word, the older scholars, sometimes what they would do is they would take a word and translate it into what it really not literally what it means, but what it the connotation that everyone an Arab here would understand. So they used to translate jihad as holy war, which is perfectly legitimate because that's kind of what it means. But the word itself means to struggle. And I always find it funny because a lot of the Muslim apologists point this out and they say, oh, you crazy Islamophobes, Jihad doesn't Mean holy war. It means struggle. In fact, it does. But that actually makes it worse. And it really underscores how dangerous jihad is because, yes, jihad does mean to struggle on behalf of Islam so you can overpower and overcome the infidel world, okay? And its historical manifestation has been through arms, through violence, because no one, including and especially Europeans, pre modern Europeans, was going to be suckered into being conquered the way they are now. So the only way to do jihad was through force and violence. Okay? But in the common era, there's other forms of jihads that the Islamic scholars have actually articulated. And they're, they're known as, for example, jihad of the tongue and jihad of the pen. That means lying and propaganda, okay. On behalf of Islam. There's jihad of the money, which means I'm a rich billionaire Saudi, I don't commit to jihad, but I send millions to support it. There's the baby jihad, okay, which is, you know, and a lot of the women see this as their burden, which is, I'm gonna have as many children as I can have. We're gonna, we're gonna flood the world with Muhammad's, which they're already doing in a lot of Western European countries, capitals. The number one newborn baby b. Baby boy name is Muhammad. So actually when people argue, oh, jihad just means struggle. Yeah, it does. And in fact, there's various manifestations of how this is happening, even though historically it was through holy war.
- [27:20]
A
Wow. Okay, so what is this third document?
- [27:22]
B
So the third one is more of a historical one, but it's. So when I was telling you about Quran 9, 29, fight the people, the book, the Christians and the Jews until they pay tribute and embrace living as a second class citizen. So now, okay, you started off with the hate, you fought, you conquered. Now you got to keep these people living as just, you know, at best, second class, maybe third class citizens. And the people suffering from this today would be, you know, non Muslim minorities, Christians, Yazidis, Druze, as we saw recently, who live under Islamic rule because they're continuously being mistreated. And we're talking about millions of people around the world. So it wouldn't, you know, in here, in this setting or in the west, it's not too applicable because Westerners are still not under the yoke or the boot of the Muslim still. So it doesn't really apply, but it's. So it just shows you, you know, it starts off with the hatred and the loyalty to fellow Muslims and tribalism, and then that manifests itself through, through violence and war or Just Jihad in general, which is different manifestations, including peaceful ways. And then the end result is if you're still alive, you are a low life, second class citizen.
- [28:34]
A
Muslims believe that they are from the line of Ishmael. Is that correct?
- [28:39]
B
Yeah.
- [28:40]
A
Yes. And Muhammad was who? Like why did he start this religion? How did he gain all his power?
- [28:48]
B
Well, it's, it's interesting when you look at Muhammad's life according to Muslim sources, of course he starts off okay. He's, he, you know, according to Islamic tradition, He's born in 570 and he's at age of 40. So around 610, Gabriel visits him, right. And starts pontificating him. Or actually Quran means to recite. So they start reciting the, the aat or the verses that keep coming piecemeal over his until he dies. Okay. So from 610 to 632 and the first 10 years when he's living in Mecca, nobody followed him, it was just, and he was poor, he was married to a rich widow older than him who was essentially taking care of him, you know, and his father and parents, he was raised by his uncle and he was just kind of like, you know, as a laughingstock. And a lot of the kurish, the tribes that were in Mecca, would laugh at him and mock him. And this of course is when we get the peaceful verses, as I was saying, right? The, the, you know, you have your religion, I have mine. Don't persecute me. I won't persecute. Because he was weak and he was outnumbered. And then when he finally went to Medina, he actually became powerful and he got a lot of tribes to join and work with him. And so I would argue that's, that has from day one been the, you know, the blueprint of Islam. Islam was rewarding to men especially. So now if you join the winning team and you join Muhammad's caravan, we're gonna, okay, we're gonna kill, we're gonna rape, we're gonna enslave, we're gonna plunder. And best of all, I mean, you know, tribal societies did this always anyway. But best of all, now we're gonna go to heaven for it if we get killed and we're martyrs and we get more of that in paradise. Okay? So that's why I often say Muhammad, basically his genius was he deified tribalism. And now it wasn't just, you know, me against the other, but it's me against the other. And then I even get, and the more I kill them, the more I'm going To be rewarded in the here and hereafter. And then, you know, he and the men, of course, I say men to get his men to get Arab men to follow him. You got all, you know, the sex slavery as being codified as in the Quran. I mean, think about it. God is actually telling you as a man you can go and rape women. Okay.
- [31:04]
A
That's their God and children. Correct. Well, of course, Muhammad took a child bride, Aisha, she was six. Right. But didn't consummate until nine. So gracious. And is that why we see it seems an acceptance of pedophilia? I mean, I read a very interesting article that kind of brought this to mind a few years ago. And it was actually about Jeffrey Epstein. But it was like the reason that we in the west rightly have a revulsion against Jeffrey Epstein is because of our Christian underpinnings and because Christianity and going all the way back to Genesis said that marriage was about being able to have children. That right there defined marriages between not a man and anyone, but a man and a woman who was able to bear children. So just inherently in Judaism and Christianity, you see that you got to be an adult, but we don't see that in Islam.
- [32:01]
B
No, no, it's, you know, it's, it's catering to every man's desires, whatever they may be. Okay. Four women, sex slaves, young. And there's Quranic verse. I mean, you know, pedophilia with boys is a very real thing. It's very interesting because especially as someone who studies his history, really it was very, very common amongst Muslims, especially the Turks. You know, it was, it was known as a Turkish disease in the medieval era. And, and you know, Christian Europeans would almost like try to kill their kids before having them being kidnapped. Okay. And anyway, and even in the Quran you have like these beautiful servant boys in heaven, which is kind of ambiguous. And some people say it's, it's meant to be sexually enticing.
- [32:49]
A
Next sponsor for the day is Jace medical. This is a way to stay prepared for your family. You don't want to get in a situation where you can't access the medication that you need. Could be a supply chain issue, could be a weather issue. Who knows what is going on? But you need antibiotics. What if something happens? You get an infection, your child gets an infection. This could be life saving. So get your Jace case, that is a stash of life saving antibiotics for the most common infections. Then get a Jace daily case that is a year long supply of the prescriptions that you and your family Rely on this is a way not to be paranoid, but just to be prepared for you and your family. Go to jace.com that's J-A S E.com use code ALI at checkout for a discount on your order. That's jace.com code ALI. So why do Muslims want to come to America if they can live basically in what she described as medina, where they have power and they have the ability to exact their rule however they want to in the Middle East. But they come here and it's not like they, you know, disseminate. They don't spread out. They concentrate in Dearborn, Michigan, in Houston, Texas, in Minnesota and in London and other parts of the world as well. Is there a strategy there? Is there a specific purpose, why they are infiltrating the west the way they are?
- [34:16]
B
Well, I mean, first and foremost, I would say it's just opportunism. I'm coming because, you know, you're right, in my country, I can live according to. According to pure Islam. I don't have to dissemble. But their countries are poor and they live, you know, oftentimes in a horrific way. So primarily they're coming here because. And you believe it or not, you know, because historically it was forbidden for Muslims to willingly live amongst infidels due to the hate and tribalism that they eventually had. All these scholars came up with fatwas or decrees allowing it. But as long as you maintain your Islam in your heart. And the pre, the, the, the sort of like pretext they all follow is if I'm here to help convert them, all, right? Because that's one of the reasons a Muslim can go and live amongst non Muslims. He's, he's engaged in what's called dawah. He's calling them to Islam. So a lot of them, that's the pretext, but they're not here to assimilate at all. They, I just told you, they hate the infidel, okay? They're here to benefit, okay? Whether that means from actually having opportunities to get a job or more, more likely than not from just getting freebies, as you see in a lot of these countries where they just go as migrants and they put them in hotels and, you know, stuff that the actual citizens who built the nations don't. Can't get. So in other words, they're doing it because it's opportunistic for them. And, and the, but the tribalism and the hatred is still there. And so it regularly manifests itself in what we see, whether it's in America or whether more likely and more vividly and graphically in Western Europe, because the numbers are greater. So, yeah, they're not here to assimilate. They don't. They actually despise Western culture. Okay. They just. But they want the good stuff that the west produces.
- [36:00]
A
Yeah. Muslim migrants are responsible for a disproportionate number of sex crimes, especially in European countries. And we see the tolerance for that. It seems to, to be lowering, which that part is good. Obviously the crimes are not. Why do you think that there is disproportionate representation of Muslims when it comes to those kinds of crimes?
- [36:28]
B
Well, okay, so if you go to the Islamic world, you're going to see the same kind of crimes being exacted against non Muslims, Christian minorities, Hindus, you know, whatever, Yazidis, Druze, all sorts of Shias who are the minority. You're going to see the same sorts of things because they're actually, again, they go back to the heart of Islam. Islam, you have it in the Quran where their God actually tells them you can. Not only can you have you four wives, okay, polygamy, but you can have, it's called what your right hand possesses, which means any woman you conquer who's an infidel, okay, the, the, the non Muslim exists to be plundered, enslaved, okay, killed. When back in the media, in the, in the pre modern era, even if, if they wanted, let's say a European wanted to send a delegation to talk to some khalif or something, the caliph had to go out of his way to, you know, make sure and send a special license to that person so he can travel through the Muslim land without being killed. Because the default situation is once he sets foot, he gets killed. Okay. I mean, this is why, by the way, then this is why the new world was found. All these sailors from Europe were going west because they couldn't go east because that was the Islamic world. And once you go there, you're dead. Okay. Once they get a hold of you. That's what prompted people sailing westward to try to get around, you know, the east, the Islamic East. So I lost my train of thought.
- [37:56]
A
That's okay. Just the reason I'm interested in the theological reason which you've already touched on, why it seems like those kinds of crimes, crimes against women and little girls seem to be especially prevalent in Israel.
- [38:10]
B
Okay. So, yeah, that was, that's what I was sort of getting at, which is that the default, the default position between Muslim and non Muslims, you're my enemy. And if you're a Woman. Okay. You know, and now, okay, so one of the themes that very few people understand is that, you know, we know what happened in England and the so called grooming gangs, but it's also happening all throughout Europe. Right. In Sweden.
- [38:32]
A
And you say so called.
- [38:34]
B
Well, because I mean that word. I don't, I don't, it's kind of very subjective. What's going on? Is it just straight up rape, which we can call it that, or is grooming a euphemism? Yeah, you know, I mean, I guess that's a real debate which I'm not too privy to, but I've heard both sides and so that's why I put it in quotes.
- [38:50]
A
They were gangs who were raping children. We know that much, it seems.
- [38:54]
B
Right. But some people argue. No. That these, you know, they were actually seduced and groomed and they thought they were their boyfriend or whatever. And I'm not making that argument. That's why I'm saying for the longest time the word I would always hear, including from the right wing, is grooming. So, but yeah, it is rape, obviously. Now the thing about that, not just in England, but all throughout northern Europe. And one of the funniest things, and again, here's, here's the importance of the con of understanding continuity when it comes to Islam and how unwavering it is. I, I, I've written a lot about this, this phenomena and, and oftentimes the woman who's raped or whatever happened to her, the Muslim will say some really degrading stuff like, okay, you white women exist for this, you white women are just good for this. You white women like it. Okay, that sort of thing. Now what's funny is because I study history, when you go way, way back on literally almost Muhammad's time, that kind of thinking existed. Okay, so it starts with Muhammad, who during his, one of his campaigns against the Eastern Roman Empire, which would be, I guess, white Greeks, he tried to cajole one of his men by saying, who didn't want to commit and go fight. He's like, but don't you want the blonde women? Right? And now after that, after Muhammad, then you get all these scholars who are writing in the 8th and 9th 9th century, we're talking well over a thousand years who say the same things, who say, say literally white women, European women, they usually would talk about Byzantine women because that's who's closest to them, but also Frankish women and the same exact mentality. They like it, they're good for it. They're all slots. And okay, so and they also coveted and wanted them. So one of the, you know, things that few people understand is all the Vikings slave raids on England and France and wherever Northern European, a lot of those people were actually sold to the Abbasid caliphate because there was a premium for white slaves. So I tell you all this to show you that, you know, you fast forward and you go to these countries now and you see the same exact behavior. Because you're asking me, well, why, why is it Muslims who are disproportionate and you see the same exact behavior and you find that, well, this is actually they're just echoing their own heritage, which goes back over a millennium straight to their prophet. So it's not surprising. Same thing with the crime, just crimes in general. Theft.
- [41:14]
A
Yeah.
- [41:15]
B
You know, again, if you're the. Okay, so remember Jizya is you pay tribute. If you're an infidel and now you're under Muslim rule, Jizya, you have to pay us tribute so we don't kill you. So Muslim clerics, I remember one, he's very famous in England and he, he says welfare, British welfare, because he was getting a lot of welfare because he had like four wives and 10 kids. And he says, well, this is Jizya. They owe it to us. Okay, so, so it's that mentality, you know, I'm here in the west not to contribute, not to assimilate. I'm here to take. Okay. And you know, it's just amazing that we have a. Then, you know, the other side is actually, which we don't talk enough about is the west. Because to me, you know, what's happening today is kind of unprecedented, but it's a lot of it is self induced.
- [42:01]
A
Yeah.
- [42:01]
B
You know, this isn't, you know, this. Back in the day when Muslims would invade Europe, they fought tooth and nail to keep them out.
- [42:08]
A
And that's where I want to go. Okay, let's, let's go back. Let's go back. Because you're talking about all of this and you're like, well, it makes a lot more sense now when we look at history and we see Christians doing everything they could to defeat the Muslim world.
- [42:22]
B
Right.
- [42:22]
A
And I, I've heard people point to that part of Christian history as an example of bad Christianity, as evil, oppressive Christianity when they plundered the Muslim world. But when you're talking about what Muhammad said, what the scholars were saying about, you know, raping and pillaging their women and probably girls, it kind of makes more sense why they were so aggressive. So tell us what really happened. Going all the way back.
- [42:47]
B
Sure, sure. Yeah. Well, okay, now. Now you. Now you've come to my forte.
- [42:50]
A
I'm excited.
- [42:51]
B
Yeah. Well, great. So you're. First of all, you're absolutely right, and that what's presented is that. But the bad Christians were the guys who resisted this, okay? And. And they won't. They won't even tell you they resisted. They'll just say there was no problems. It's the Christians who started, and it was the Christians who were attacking and hurting Muslims.
- [43:09]
A
You know, that's the narrative about what time.
- [43:12]
B
Oh, well, they usually will reference the Crusades. I'll give you a very perfect quote. So I don't know if you ever heard of John Esposito. So, okay, he was a professor at Georgetown University, and he was a big deal back in the, like, the 2000 and tens, and he wrote a lot of books. He's like the editor of the Oxford History of Islam. He's a big deal. I remember a lot of, you know, the intelligence department go to him for information. So he has this line in one of his books, which I've literally memorized because I've quoted it so many times because it's just so absurd. He says that five centuries of peaceful coexistence between Muslims and Christians elapsed before an imperial papal power play. Some of the Crusades launched a series of holy wars, causing enduring mistrust and resentment from Muslims to the West.
- [43:57]
A
Okay, that's impressive.
- [44:00]
B
Yeah. So what he's trying to say is before the First Crusade, in the year 1095, that's when it was called. And Islam, you know, so Muslim Muhammad dies in 632. So we're talking well over four centuries. Right. He's saying all that was just, you know, peace and love between Muslims and Christians. Well, in the real world, what happened is this, people. And here we go again, you know, with the intentional ignorance. People forget when we talk about Christianity and Christendom. When Muhammad was alive or during the seventh century, the vast majority of it was in what's today called the Islamic world. Okay. It was in Egypt, it was in Syria, it was in Turkey, Asia Minor. It was all throughout North Africa. Okay? So actually, Europe, when we think of Christendom, was the smaller kind of little brother of the big Christian world, which is why Constantine, you know, really, the first Christian emperor, moved it from Rome to New Rome, Constantinople in the east. Or put it this way, there were. There's five major seas or centers of Christianity, and only one was in the West, Rome. Which is what Christians know. The other four, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, and later Constantinople, which were just as equal, are now part of the Islamic world. Okay, so, you know, to give you the brief lessons from the year Muhammad dies 632 to 732 Muslims literally have conquered almost three quarters of the ancient Christian world through sheer savage violence from their own sources. Okay. Because they actually, in their own sources, they boast about. Because that proves the power of Allah.
- [45:32]
A
Okay, and this was all before the Crusades?
- [45:35]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [45:35]
A
I mean, and it's kind of obvious when you think about it. You don't even have to be a scholar, scholar of history to think, well, of course, that used to be Christian and now it's Muslim. How did that happen? But, you know, there are a lot of things like that in the world that we haven't really thought about.
- [45:47]
B
Right, right. And the reason I said 732 is because that's the famous Battle of Tours. So 632, Muhammad dies. 732, they are in the middle of France. They've already conquered Spain. They've conquered all of North Africa from Egypt to Morocco. They've conquered the Middle East, Greater Syria, which encompasses Lebanon, Israel, Jordan, all that nation, all those regions. And, you know, and then thereafter, it's a continuous bombardment on the Mediterranean. And then later the Turks come and they become the new. They're Muslim and they become the new standard bearers of Islam and the jihad is rekindled. And now Asia Minor is conquered. And this is so now. Okay, so now all of you know, all that's conquered. And then right before the First Crusade is when the Turks, who are extremely savage and violent, come and conquer Asia Minor and also the Holy Land. And they now, okay, so according to the sources, they've in, I mean, the Armenians, we talk about the Armenian genocide. Actually, the Turks were genociding them over a millennium before the Armenian genocide. If you look at the sources, in the 11th century, when they started pouring into Armenia and then later, Anatolia, Asia, Asia Minor, according to contemporary sources, they literally were killing tens of thousands of Christians and burning and destroying tens of thousands of churches. Okay. In one city, Ani, an Armenian city, which was the capital of the time, was known as a thousand and one city of 1001 churches. They were all burned to the ground. Okay, so this is now. And, and, and this is what prompted the emperor, the Byzantine Emperor Alexius, to call for aid from the West. And at the same time, Western pilgrims who had always been going to Jerusalem, Jerusalem, to the Holy Land, were Being attacked and killed and mauled. One of the worst, the pilgrims especially. One of the worst instances, which was well recorded, occurred in 1064. It was a large German pilgrimage. And, you know, eyewitness sources talk about not only did they kill everyone, but they took. There was a. They describe her as a beautiful abbess or, you know, a nun who was. They told her, don't go, but she really wanted to go to pilgrimage, and they took her. And it says these shameless men gang raped her until she died. Okay? And then it says at the end. And they did this sort of thing common all the time. That is what led to the First Crusade. Okay, so think of what I just told you in one year, even before that, in the year 1009. Okay, so what we're talking about the Seljuk Turks, and what's happening. This is from, like, 1030s all the way to 1095. But in 1009, now you have a Fatimid, a Shia Khalif from Egypt, who actually, in that year alone, destroyed, according to a Muslim source, 30,000 churches and synagogues in Egypt and greater Syria, including the Holy Sepulcher, which is. Or the Church of the Resurrection of Christ in Jerusalem, was raised to the ground. Okay, so that's what that. Those are the five centuries of peaceful coexistence that the professors are telling everyone occurred until.
- [48:38]
A
Scare quotes for everyone out there, until.
- [48:41]
B
Those evil Christians decided to go and do this crazy crusade, which totally randomly rand. Yeah, it came out of nowhere. You know, and even if you look at the sources, when you look at Pope Urban when he's preaching the First Crusade, that's exactly what he's talking about. He's telling you the. The horrific atrocities are committing against Christians. The desecration of churches. You know, they would take youths and, like, disembowel them and tie their intestines and whip them. I mean, really, like, mindboggling stuff, disgusting stuff. That's what the evil crusaders were responding to. You don't get that. Right? You don't get the context. You don't. It's all in a vacuum. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [49:17]
A
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- [50:49]
B
Yeah, sure. So agape is the Greek, you know, biblical New Testament word for love, which we translate as love. And one of the reasons that I, you know, intentionally picked that word is because I think the English word love is just, it has too many sentimental connotations. And I think that's what too many modern day Christians think. Biblical love is kind of like an emotional.
- [51:09]
A
Ah, yeah.
- [51:10]
B
And but agape love is, is, you know, it's like wishing the. Wishing willing the good for the other. Okay. It's like being altruistic and you know, it's not sentimental, but it's good and it's, it's real, it's practical. So when to early pre modern Christians, including medieval ones, when they would read about Jewish Jesus talking about loving your fellow man, that's what it meant. So if my fellow man, fellow Christians are being killed and mauled and enslaved and raped and their churches are being bombed. I'm not bombed. Burned. Okay. Bombed is later. Now what? Where's my love? So my love was to be altruistic and sacrifice my own welfare. These, okay, a lot of these first crusaders and all the crusaders again to just show you how everything is. It's topsy turvy now how they teach it. They, there's this theory they used to go by saying they're all second sons, which means they were because a primogeniture, the first son gets everything. So the second sons have nothing. So they all decided to be adventurers and Go conquer the Holy Land so they can have castles. Okay. But the more most recent research has shown that's the exact opposite. Actually. A lot of these guys gave away their. Don't, you know, donated their castles and their lands and lost them. Okay. Even someone like King Richard, you know, the whole thing with John. And John take, you know, taking over England and because he was crusading. So it was a very dangerous thing, not just for your life, but you lost everything. So. But that was muscular love. That was true agape. And that's really what motivated them. And we. And of course it's amazing. Now they are so demonized.
- [52:42]
A
The Crusaders.
- [52:43]
B
The Crusaders, yeah. And they're. They are just the horrible ones. And, and you know, I told you what happened to that German pilgrimage in 2000, I think, or 1999, because that marked the 1000 year conquest of Europe of Jerusalem by the Crusaders. Large German pilgrimage, 1999. Recently walked to Jerusalem wearing. Wearing shirts with the Arabic word, I apologize.
- [53:07]
A
Oh my gosh. For the Crusade.
- [53:09]
B
Yes, of course.
- [53:11]
A
Wow. Okay. My big question is in multiple friends, like, what happened? Because on the one hand, they still dominate the Middle East. So obviously we didn't get those Christian lands, those Christian cities back. But at the same time, for a very long time, it seemed like Muslims were isolated to the Muslim world. It's only in relatively recent history that they have started infiltrating Europe and the West. And so what happens to. To allow them to continue to dominate that part of the world, but what also happened to keep them there for so long?
- [53:47]
B
Right. Well, to answer that, we'll actually have to go past the Crusades. We can't really jump to now. And that's also very, you know, didactic how we're going to understand it. So after the Crusades, which really around 1300, they're more or less done. So now the does. Does Islam, Wayne. No, like I told you, now you have the Turks. Now it's the rise of the Ottomans. Okay. So these, this is one of the most ruthless Turkish dynasty, okay. Which is like they are known. They are the jihadists par excellence. Okay. They're the ones who Conquer Constantinople in 1453. They invade and conquer the Balkans, okay. Eastern Europe. I mean, how many people. There's still Muslim countries in Europe because they were conquered and forcibly Islamized. Okay. And they can, you know, in the 16th century in North Africa was just swarming with pirates, Muslim pirates, Barbary. And they just. In that century alone, according to the estimates of very objective historians, at least 1.2 million Europeans were enslaved. Okay. You don't hear about that. Right. They would go as far as Iceland and as far as Denmark and England. England, you know, it's. It's funny because what's happening today with England, you know, the St. George flag and it's.
- [55:03]
A
Yeah.
- [55:04]
B
And everyone's. So St. George flag is England's oldest flag. And what is it? It's a red cross on white. And the irony is a lot of English people are sort of rallying to it as a. As a sign of, you know, it's a sign of patriotism. And they're being accused, oh, you're, you're Islamophobic, etc. Etc. The I. And I think there is some truth to that. Obviously, not that they're Islamophobic, but the rallying to it as a sign of, you know, you. You guys are invaders and you're doing what you're doing.
- [55:31]
A
Yeah.
- [55:31]
B
The greater irony that no one knows is that flag was born in the context of war between Muslims and Christians. The St. George flag. So the red and white, the first group to adopt that is the Templars, the Knights of the Temple. And red symbolized blood, martyrdom for Christ, red cross, white symbolized purity because they were chased knights devoted to God. Okay. And anyway, it carried on in the Crusader era and it got conflated with St. George. So St. George was a soldier saint who was martyred around the 3rd, 4th century for not renouncing Christ for. By pagan Rome. And anyway, so he became sort of a martial saint and especially for the English, and they adopted that, that, that flag. Okay. And anyway, long story short, with Edward, first another Christian crusader, then it becomes the flag of England. So I'm just telling you all this to show you how, you know, on the one hand, it seems like a sort of an innocuous thing, a flag, but on the other hand, in. In and of itself, this flag and the issue it concerns today, which is migration in Islam with migration in England of Muslims. That's its origin. I mean, it's a classic. It's the classic. You know, he doesn't know his history will repeat it. Yeah, okay. You don't even know what that flag meant. And you started bringing in the historic enemy. And lo and behold, they're doing to you what used to happen back in the day when you had to go and fight it. Okay. But so finishing that narrative, Iceland, you got the slave slavery going on, these Barbary pirates. People don't realize that even the United States, distant United States, its very first war as a nation is with Muslims thinking on the same exact logic. Okay, the Barbary pirates. Yeah, the Barbary pirates were basically, and this is, I think this. They started attacking right after the Revolutionary War. They started attacking American sailor vessels in the Atlantic, enslaving them, treating them horrifically, just like, just like I was saying, with all the other European slaves. And finally, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams met with one of the Barbary ambassadors, Abdul something. And Thomas Jefferson and Adams are like, what, you know, we did nothing to you. We want to be friends. Maybe we can engage in trade and business. And the, the Muslim ambassador, just like isis, he said, our prophet says, you're the enemy, you're the infidel. Our Quran says we must kill and enslave you wherever we find you, etc. Etc. Okay, America's very first war, again with this same ancient foe. All right, so, all right, so how come, you know, they were confined and now they're not? What's going on? So finally you got the colonial era. All right, now the colonial era, historically, people give it different dates, but let's say 1800, Napoleon goes essentially and conquers Egypt very easily. So what happened in, in the, in the colonial era to the people who were colonizing these Europeans? To them, this was a continuation of the Crusades. It was this ancient long war with Islam. Okay, Islam had swallowed up so much of formerly Christian lands, slowly got kicked out. Spain, it took 800 years to get it kicked out. In Eastern Europe, similar, hundreds of years to get the Turks kicked out. And now the Europeans are finally the strong ones. And now they're going back into the Islamic lands themselves, the Middle East, India, which is an Islamic, and even further east. And actually, so here's the funny thing. On the one hand now, so if I'll give you a perfect example of how history is distorted, think of the history I just told you about this long attack from Islam, right, that's been going on century after century. When my book Sword and Scimitar came out, my agent told me there's a. You know, we felt like this is going to be an issue because some professor wrote a book that was very similar. It was called Crusade and Jihad, the Thousand Years Year War between, like, I don't know, the global north and the South, Crusade and Jihad. And my book is sword and scimitar, 14 centuries of war between Islam and the West. Anyway, I ended up reviewing the book, and it's a tome. It's like a thousand pages, right? And it turns out that in this thousand pages which is dealing with the whole conflict. Purportedly. 50 pages deal with the first thousand from the time of Muhammad to the colonial era. Okay? Which is. To. Which is. That is where all the savage wild wars and geology going on. 50 concise pages. And you. And you don't even know any of the stuff that I'm talking about. It sounds like nothing happened. Islam spread, you know, through trade across the Middle east. And then he gets to the colonial era. Oh, and now we got like 600, 700 pages of every conceivable sin and crime the European man did to Muslims and others. Okay? And. And a lot of it, of course, is exaggerated. They didn't even, you know, commit these crimes. But it's. Again, you see, there's no context. So today, when people talk about the conflict between the Islamic world and the west, what they'll do is they won't tell you anything that preceded the Crusades. Like I told you, they'll start with the Crusades and the Crusaders were just these evil guys who went and wanted to kill Muslims. And then they'll go to the colonial era, which, again, these crazy Europeans went there for no reason. Reason 1. Again, one of the main reasons for the colonial powers to invade North Africa was to neutralize Barbary, the slave trade system. In fact, it was they who actually abolished slavery, too. Europeans, I think the English especially, spearheaded it. So these are so. Because though we have this big lacuna in history, and all we know is that negative stuff that the west did with. No, everything's in a vacuum. That's why Islam is a problem today. Because now generations of Westerners have been taught how your ancestors were the evil ones. The Crusaders and the colonial and the colonizers. The Muslims have always been the good, tolerant one. Watch any historic movie, okay, that deals with the Crusades. I mean, you know what I'm talking about. Every Crusader is just some bumbling idiot screaming, there's wolves and like, and he's a hypocrite. And the more he holds a cross, the more he evil he really is. And the Muslims, this wise, you know, paragon of virtue and patience, just like Native Americans. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The noble savage myth, right?
- [61:40]
A
Yeah.
- [61:42]
B
Generations of all that and academia and has just convinced so many Westerners that it's my job to become a doormat. If I want to be a good Christian, I need to make up for the sins of my forefathers. Which is why I was, as. I was telling you, those German. That German pilgrimage, saying I'm sorry in Arabic, okay? That's the mentality.
- [62:02]
A
Yeah.
- [62:02]
B
And that mentality, one of the things that it's doing is, well, one of the things we're going to do is bring Muslims to live with us and show them how great we are and how we're going to host them and give them all the rights they can ever imagine. And yet meanwhile, Muslims are still, you know, to their credit, they haven't changed. It's the west that's changed, that's become stupider. I mean, to be put it bluntly.
- [62:22]
A
And Christians, because you talk about that muscular Christianity.
- [62:25]
B
Well, yeah, and that's. So that really is the big shift, I think, in many ways, I think, I think Christianity has been subverted intentionally. You know, as with all things, you know, I was telling you earlier how, you know, good lies always have a half truth to them. And of course, Christianity is about love and forgiveness and tolerance. Okay? But it seems to be that people or elements that do not like Christianity have convinced Christians that that is Christianity. You want to be a good Christian, you're a doormat, okay? And you don't judge. You always turn your cheek.
- [62:58]
A
You never, you never fight back. Anything is wrong.
- [63:02]
B
Exactly. That's become a good Christian. Well, that is not what a good Christian was in the medieval era or even in the pre modern era, okay? They fought against evil, they believed in what was right and trying to enforce what was right. Okay? So that's why they would never do what the modern day watered down Christian is doing. And I also think a lot of Christians are making a virtue out of a vice because it's easier to be that kind of a Christian. It's easier to be non confrontational and to just let everything happen and, and never open your mouth, you know, and so the truth is a lot of the Christians who do this is just, they're really cowards and they don't want to stand up for what's right. And then, then they pat themselves on the back saying, oh, I'm being a good Christian because Jesus told me to be a doormat.
- [63:46]
A
Yeah.
- [63:47]
B
And that would have been so unintelligible to any Christian denomination, Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant. Historically.
- [63:53]
A
Yeah.
- [63:54]
B
Okay.
- [63:54]
A
So I do think Christians have forgotten our responsibility to restrain evil and to push back against evil for the sake of the vulnerable. I mean, you talk about those who forged the Crusades caring for the vulnerable, women, children, people who couldn't defend themselves. I mean, it's the same thing with a lot of issues today. We push back against those pushing evil because of the people over here who are being affected by Those evil policies or actions or whatever. I think the hard thing is that Christians want to know, like, on an everyday basis is what does that muscular Christianity look like? Because at the end of the day, I've got way more Muslims in my neighborhood. I've got a mosque really close to my house that wasn't there 10 years ago. Go. And that's just reality. And I'm just a mom. And so I think a lot of people don't know what to do. So they flee to, like, the country, hoping that, like, you know, it doesn't follow them there. And they just don't. They don't know. They see it's a problem, but they don't know what to do. So what is your take on that?
- [64:53]
B
Well, my take on that is the real problem. And believe it or not, I don't think the problem right now is even Islam, because Islam is inherently weak in the modern era. Islam's only a problem when you let it be a problem. Okay, so if you look at Europe, for example, it's a huge problem in various countries, right? The UK and France and Spain, Italy, most of Western Europe. Meanwhile, in Hungary and Poland, there's not a problem. And why is that? Are they going to war? No, they just said, no, thanks. Okay? So that. So that. My point is it's an easily fixed problem, which goes back to what you were saying, you know, because they were confined to their own realm, you know, they're not going to hurt you if they're there. Right? So I think the. It's important to keep in mind. And that's why people get upset. One time there, you know, a lot of English people are saying Muslims are invading England. Sorry, they're not. They're being welcomed in. There's a big difference. Okay. Invasion is when you're resisting and fighting.
- [65:48]
A
Yeah, that's true.
- [65:49]
B
Okay. But when they're being brought in and treated like kings, that's not an invasion. So my point is you. If you want to, before you can address a problem, you have to locate the source. And it's actually a mistake to think the source is the Muslims. Okay? The source is the people enabling and allowing this to happen. I often give the analogy of, you know, if I. If I go to a zoo and there's a, you know, enclosure of zebras, and then I put a line, and then the line, lo and behold, kills the zebras, who's really at fault, me or the lion? I think it's me. The lion's doing what the lion's gonna do. Yeah, The Muslim's gonna do what the Muslim's gonna do. But if you get. But it's the person who's insisting on bringing them in and putting them in and forcing you to suppress your culture and your heritage and everything about your life so you can accommodate them, that's the problem. So I think, you know, Islam is an inherent issue that can. That can be. It's very finite and can be dealt with. It's. Especially if you don't live in the Islamic world. If you're a Christian or a non Muslim living under Islam, that's a different story. But in America, for example, or even Europe, you are creating your own problem by inviting it in. Okay? So it's actually an easily fixed problem. But it goes back to what you're saying. This whole, you know. And, you know, what's happening in the west, where it's not just that they're bringing them in, is they also don't even have the sort of moral. Moral fiber to respond anymore because it's been stripped away. Because to be a Christian, like I said, the chief virtue is your doormat. You don't do anything. You don't argue. You don't speak up. Okay? This would have been so bizarre for other Christians. That would have been seen as evil, actually, because you're. You're an accomplice. Okay. I mean, is that how Jesus behaved? We forget Jesus made a whip of cords and engaged in violence and hurled tables. Okay? So again, I'm not saying Jesus is violent, but there's a time for everything. There's a time for resistance. There's a time for forgiveness. There's a time for. And it seems that. That everything has been stripped and it's just. You're a doormat. I saw. I often mention this, the super bowl, like maybe two years ago. And, you know, to have a commercial in the. In the. In the super bowl is like a big thing. Everyone's watching it, and this commercial just pops up and it's just scenes. Okay, okay. Of people sitting, getting their feet washed. Right? And then at the very end, it says, jesus didn't preach hate. He watched feet.
- [68:13]
A
He gets us.
- [68:14]
B
Yeah, yeah, one of those. Right. And then. But there was something interesting. It wasn't just random people washing random people's feet. Everyone on their hands and knees was like a white woman or a white man who looks traditional, conservative, maybe Christian. And everyone getting their foot washed was a transition thing person. A Muslim man, a Muslim woman in a hijab, and an illegal migrant, apparently, because it's like, at the border. All right, so that is. That is the message they want Christians to embrace. You want to be a Christian, then your whole job is to just enable. Anything I want. Yeah, serve me. Okay. And it's just sad because I think a lot of Christians believe that's the case.
- [68:57]
A
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- [70:05]
B
The. The whole blueprint, you know, of, of Islam is kind of like, it's catered to. It's like, you know, think of a little boy who wants to be a pirate and you, you know, you can go have fun, go on adventures, kill, raid, whatever you want. That's Islam. Okay? And that's. When you look at these guys, isis, and that's how they live. That's what they see themselves as. You know, we're these heroes and we're on an adventure and we're gonna have fun and then we're gonna go to heaven when we die. So, yeah, in a way, it is kind of not very mature, but you can also see why it's appealing to certain demographics.
- [70:37]
A
Like Andrew Tate.
- [70:39]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I think. I don't know a whole lot about. I mean, I know what his. His thing is, but, you know, we can talk a little bit about how the appeal of Islam and, and this sort of, you know, masculine Islam. And I think what's really going on is, again, it's. It's not, it's not really Islam's fault in this case. It's just that we or people in the west have been put in such A position where we have no more role models for ourselves. Okay. Because the Christians are not role models unless you, you understand who they were. So as I talk about the real Christians in one of my book, Defenders of the west, and it talks about how those kings would actually stand up and fight against Islam, etc. Etc. But if you're a modern day Christian or just a Western person, what is our role model supposed to be as a man, for example? There's just nothing there. And so when I see Westerners kind of gravitating towards, let's say, Islamic masculinity, it's because we literally have nothing here. So it kind of makes sense. All right. I'll think I'll gravitate towards the Islamic thing before I'll want to go sit and hang out with a man in drag, you know what I mean? If that's, that's the best that the west can come up with, that's our alternative. So I, I think it's not that Islam is inherently attractive. No pre modern Christian would have found any of that, you know, but that's because they had their own masculine form of faith and masculine heritage. But now that the west has been so stripped of all that, when they see Muslims living that way, it's kind of like, wow, I can. That's pretty cool, right?
- [72:11]
A
Powerful.
- [72:12]
B
Yeah. Because, but that's because we have. Absolutely. As a man, you're completely emasculated here. Okay, so there's no, there's. It's. In other words, once again, it's what the west is doing. Okay. Is what's making Islam look appealing. Just like it's what the west is doing that's making Islam a problem and a threat in Europe because they're bringing them in. And again, the west is emasculating men and it's just, you know, the sexual perversion and this like weird gender issues that are going on. It's really an appealing and despicable. So I, it makes sense for a Western man to look anywhere else and find inspiration there because there's literally nothing here. And I, I wish, I wish it was just. There's nothing. There's just the exact opposite. There's just disgusting stuff.
- [72:58]
A
Yeah. I've heard stories from Christians who have spent time in the Middle East, Christians who know the Muslim world well and they talk about conversions of Muslims to Christianity. Some say that this is happening at a greater rate than it was before. Do you think that that is something that is happening? Is that a reason for us to be hopeful?
- [73:20]
B
No, that's that's definitely a thing that's happening. And a lot of Muslims complain, complain about it. You know, like the, the serious radical Muslims. I've seen them, I watch a lot of Arabic programming and you know, I've seen where sheikhs and Muslims get up and complain and say millions of Muslims are leaving the faith for Christianity because of usually Arabic speaking, you know, apologists and polemicists who talk about Islam and Christianity. I watch their shows too, and very interesting because they expose Muhammad. The problem is a lot of Muslims don't know the truth of their own religion.
- [73:49]
A
Yeah.
- [73:50]
B
You know, they really don't. A lot of them do think it's moderate. A lot of them do think Muhammad was a great guy. Okay. Because they just, it's there, it's hidden from them. A lot of the clerics and the sheikhs are smart. They only introduce it sort of when, when the time is right. But of course a lot of them do know what it is. But I, the, the conversion and an apostasy out of Islam, that's definitely a real thing. And they all have very interesting similar stories, which makes it kind of a very interesting thing is the, the phenomena that every Muslim that converts to Christianity seems to talk about. And this is the Jesus in dreams talking to them. And this is not localized. It's everywhere. It's your Africans, African Muslims who convert Arabs, Iranians, you know, all throughout. It's kind of Indonesians. And so that. There's certainly something happening to that effect. And a lot of Muslims, like I said, that's why there are a lot of these countries are very restrictive towards Christian. In Iran, you know, if you, if you're preaching Christianity, you're immediately seen as an agent of Israel or America or both. Okay. Because so they really restricted and they arrest them and they bust home churches because there is, and it's, it's, it's interesting because to Muslims it's the opposite of what's happening to us. They don't, they're sick of Islam because of what it really is. And they live the unadulterated form. And then when they're introduced to real Christianity, okay, It's of course appealing. And that's something that they start kind of wanting to gravitate towards.
- [75:20]
A
Yeah, I can imagine maybe at some point that they start to detect the pattern that Islam is also, it seems, anti civilization. Most majority Muslim countries aren't good countries to live in. They're impoverished, they're restrictive. And so, I mean, it seems that at some point they would kind of See the correlation. Wait, why do I want to leave the country that is dominated by the beliefs I had? Any of us Christians would love to live in a country that is dominated by the beliefs that we have. And they have that in spades. They can go to so many places and have what we can't have. And yet their countries are terrible.
- [75:54]
B
And their countries are terrible because historically the economy of the Islamic world was based on plunder. Okay. The Ottomans, for example, their entire economy was based on conquering and enslaving and selling slaves and appropriating their possessions and taking their land.
- [76:09]
A
Yeah, okay.
- [76:10]
B
They weren't exactly scientists, despite what you may hear. Okay.
- [76:14]
A
That is what we hear.
- [76:15]
B
I know.
- [76:15]
A
They invented math and science.
- [76:17]
B
No, Well, I mean, there's elements of contributions. There's contributions. Oftentimes it's not Muslims, it's Christians and Jews who are living under Islam. Islam, okay. And who maybe had converted a week earlier so they don't get killed. So they were continuing the sort of thing that they had always been doing. But to just, to give you an. And again, to just show you how topsy turvy everything is taught. So I was talking about the colonial era, which is always seen as the, you know, the, the white man's sin. Right. What he did, believe it or not, that was the best time for the people living in the Middle East, India and in Africa. They, yeah, this was the best time. They, they were at a high level of civilization and economy and health, nutrition was much, much better. Okay. And, and yet this is, but oh, the evil white man. And if you, if you compare and contrast that with areas where Muslims went and colonized. So for example, in Spain, because that was a microcosm of jihad and crusade, because Muslims conquered it in the 8th century and they didn't get kicked out till like the 16th or 17th. And so the middle, the Christians were mostly in the north and the Muslims were in the south during these wars. The middle zone is like still, it's still infertile and completely devastated from non stop warfare and constant raids that the Muslims would have were obligated as part of. It's a jihad doctrine to go raiding every two years and kill as many Christians. So, so on the one hand, okay, Islam has contributed nothing but death and destruction and conquest and slavery. And it's presented as this wonderful tolerant religion and Christian Europe and the west has, it's not perfect obviously, but it's actually brought science and health and nutrition and literacy and it is presented as the great evil one. And it's hard for me to start to actually believe that this topsy turvy sort of thing is just. Is not by design and it's organic. I mean, this is definitely by design. And it's pretty diabolical.
- [78:17]
A
It is very diabolical to our peril. You have a new book coming out in November. Tell us what the title is and where people can pre order it.
- [78:26]
B
Sure. The title is the Two Swords of Christ, which actually speaks very much to what we're talking about. And the subtitle is Five Centuries of War between Islam and the. And the Warrior monks of Christendom, the Knights of the Temple and the hospital. And this is a perfect example, this book. So it's about the Templars and the Hospitallers, who again, if you listen to like conspiratorial history, they're not what they seem, but what these guys were. So let's talk about the Hospitallers, for example. These were the guy. What these men were during the Holy wars, they were committed to helping pilgrims who were being killed and attacked by Muslims and giving them medical aid, food, cleaning them, bathing them, giving them their beds. Okay, it was a hospice. It was. And it was the origin of the hospital. But before long they realized that, you know, you know, why don't we. Why, why wait till Christian pilgrims are attacked and almost killed? Why don't we nip it in the bud and protect them? So they took up arms. So these men who were, you would think the most passive and they just care about health and helping you out, became warriors because that was, again, there was nothing wrong with that because we're defending against evil aggressors, right? So. And the Templars, the same thing they were, you know, again, these were war holy mon. They were monks, okay, committed to God, but they saw no problem and no contradiction in taking up the sword. And the reason I call the two swords of Christ is it. It goes back to the. The famous verse, I think, in Luke where Jesus says, you know, whoever, if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. And the disciples say, lord, here's two swords. And he says, that's enough. Okay, now today, here's again, perfect example of modern Christian nonsense. They've allegorized this verse into nothingness means nothing. Now what does it mean? It's not a sword, they'll tell you. But to premodern and definitely medieval Christians, what it meant is there's two main evils that we can and should fight. One is spiritual forces, and that's a spiritual sword. And one is Human evil forces. And that's a secular sword. Okay. And that is enough, Right, because those are the two main enemies that you should fight and resist. And you know, people forget again that Jesus, a lot of it is implied. So for example, what does Jesus do when people, when he performs a miracle on someone, the first thing he tells them is what? Go repent. Right. And when it came to the centurion, Roman centurion, he didn't tell him, go repent and quit the army because you're responsible for the killing of probably thousands of people. As a centurion commander, he didn't say that at all. So why? Same thing. When soldiers went to John the Baptist, said, what must we do to be saved? He didn't tell them, quit the army. He said, be content with your wages. Okay, so for again, what I'm trying to say is that for a lot of pre modern Christians, the issue of, you know, violence for a just cause was one that was not, not, not open to debate. There was nothing contradictory about that and being a Christian. So anyway, that's what the book is about, the Two Swords of Christ. And it's also a little bit of a pun because I ended up writing about two guys, the Templars and the Hospitallers, who, because they really took it to heart that it was important to fight and defend their fellow men.
- [81:40]
A
Yeah.
- [81:41]
B
They became the two swords of Christ.
- [81:42]
A
Yeah. Wow, this is so fascinating. I could talk to you for hours more, but I really encourage people to not only pre order the Two Swords of Christ, but go out and get his other books too. This has sparked so much interesting conversation and given us so much knowledge in our home. My husband and I have been just learning so much from you. So thank you for dedicating so many years to this and for talking to us today.
- [82:06]
B
Thanks very much, Ellie. I'm very happy to hear all that.
- [82:08]
A
It.