Ep 1285 | Middle East Missionary: Muslims Are Dreaming of Jesus | Tom Doyle

Summary

Podcast Summary: Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey

Episode 1285 | Middle East Missionary: Muslims Are Dreaming of Jesus | Tom Doyle
Date: January 9, 2026
Host: Allie Beth Stuckey
Guest: Tom Doyle (Uncharted Ministries)

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Overview

This episode explores extraordinary reports of Muslims across the Middle East and beyond encountering Jesus through vivid dreams and visions, resulting in an unprecedented number coming to faith in Christ. Allie Beth Stuckey and missionary/author Tom Doyle discuss the explosive, often-hidden growth of the Christian church in Islamic contexts, the challenges and persecution faced by new believers, and practical approaches Christians in the West can take to share the gospel with their Muslim neighbors. The episode is filled with frontline stories, cultural insights, and lessons learned through years of ministry.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Hidden Revival: What’s Really Happening in the Middle East

• Growth of Christianity Among Muslims

  • Despite turmoil, war, and oppression, Jesus' church is growing rapidly in the Middle East.
  • "Right now we're seeing, really, in the last 10 years, more Muslims have come to faith in Christ than in 1400 years of Islam." (Tom Doyle, 04:08)
  • Ministries are seeing secret/underground churches thriving, especially in Iran and Gaza, despite severe persecution.

• Radical Life Change

  • Converts are often deeply committed, willing to face ostracism or even death for their faith.
  • Underground or "secret" churches are growing, with a focus on discipleship, bravery, and preparation for suffering.

Memorable Quote:

"The life change that we see with Muslims is we know that's what Jesus said would happen. But to see it, it just warms your heart … Muslims are coming to faith in Christ and they're willing to die for their faith."
— Tom Doyle (10:13)

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2. Dramatic Testimonies: Stories from the Frontlines

• Transformation in Gaza (06:10–10:37)

  • Story of Ikram and her husband Mohammed: Ikram, a young Gazan woman, received a laptop loaded with Christian resources, leading to her conversion. She prayed for her hard-hearted husband, who later had a dramatic encounter with Christ, became passionate about the Bible, and started encouraging others amidst the Gaza war.
  • Ikram’s husband:

    "I hang out with my four best friends every day… Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. I'm in the Word."
    — Tom Doyle (08:50)

• Unexpected Encounters

  • Tom shares how an ordinary lunch in a Middle Eastern restaurant revealed to him that Muslims were already coming to faith—and how seeing their love for Christ upended his assumptions. (19:00–22:00)

• Willingness to Suffer

  • In embattled Syria, church leaders who could have fled chose instead to stay and minister, even buying land to bury each other "when they die for Jesus."
  • "They said, we’re staying and prepared to die for Jesus... and through all this… nobody’s been killed. The graveyard is still empty." (16:34)

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3. Theological and Cultural Barriers

• Muslim Beliefs about Jesus
  • Most Muslims believe the Bible is corrupted, Jesus is not the Son of God, and that he didn’t die on the cross.
  • However, many are unaware of positive verses about Jesus in the Quran (because 60% haven't read it).
  • Islam's spread was often by force, leading to generations whose allegiance is more cultural than spiritual.

Notable Quote:

"In the worst places to be a believer are really the best places, because they're just complete faith in Christ. Trust him alone for everything."
— Tom Doyle (13:18)

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4. Hostility, Danger, and Miraculous Faith

• Persecution Stories (13:35–16:33)

  • Tom’s team was expelled from the Temple Mount. In the West Bank, Muslims were keen to engage with the cross and gospel—while some reacted with anger.
  • When threatened, Syrian believers prayed and grew their underground network instead of fleeing.
  • "And they said, we're staying and we're prepared to die for Jesus." (16:34)

• The Role of Suffering

  • Converts expect persecution and count the cost, echoing the message of Scripture.

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5. Dreams and Visions: A Unique Missionary Phenomenon

• Frequency and Impact (25:10–29:03)

  • Tom was initially skeptical but encountered countless testimonies—often experiencing 30 nights of consecutive dreams about Jesus.
  • "It's happening. It's a revolution… about one out of every three Muslims that comes to faith in Christ has had a dream or a vision of Jesus. Maybe half." (26:46)
  • During Ramadan’s Night of Power, many Muslims pray for God to reveal himself in dreams, and many report visions of Jesus.

• Why Dreams?

  • Culturally, dreams carry weight in Islamic societies.
  • God meets people where they are—just as He did in the Bible.

Notable Quote:

"God can do whatever He wants. Over 200 times in the Bible… there were dreams. Maybe He's using that today."
— Tom Doyle (27:24)

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6. Islam in the West: Threats and Opportunities

• Migration and Growth in Europe/America

  • No mass conversion in cities like Rotterdam, but stories of dreams and healings abound globally.
  • Radical elements exist—especially in places like Dearborn, Michigan, which hosts former extremists.
  • Urgency:

    “In the next 10 years, if they don’t come to faith in Christ or we don’t start deporting some of these radicals, we’ll have another 9/11.”
    — Tom Doyle, reporting from leader Amir Salaam (30:24)

• Overcoming Fear Sharing the Gospel

  • Most effective outreach is through personal friendships, conversation, and storytelling—not mass rallies.
  • Practical advice:
    • Start with a genuine greeting or question ("Where are you from?") and move to sharing simple gospel stories from Scripture, then your own spiritual journey. (31:55–35:27)

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7. Persistent Questions and Barriers in Evangelism

• Frequent Objections
  • "Christianity is a white man’s religion"
  • Skepticism toward Jesus’ divinity; seeing him as merely a prophet.
  • Political issues: Muslims often conflate voting Republican with being anti-immigrant.
• Response Techniques
  • Take objection back to Scripture: have them read Jesus’ own words.
  • Focus on Jesus, minimize political distractions.

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8. Encouragement, Practical Steps, and How Anyone Can Engage

• Storytelling and Hospitality

  • One encounter: a Saudi cashier revealed to Tom that she’d been having dreams of Jesus for 30 years but never felt Christians were approachable—until he reached out. She accepted Christ at the gas station counter. (44:45–46:19)
  • Many Muslims in America feel isolated and are deeply receptive to friendship.

• Evangelism Framework

  • Listen to their story.
  • Share a gospel story (e.g., Jesus calming the storm).
  • Share your own transformation story: moving from “religion and rules” to a relationship with Jesus.
  • Keep the invitation simple, Biblically grounded, and persistent in love.

Notable Quote:

"Religion gives you rules. Jesus gives you life, and they’re all looking for that."
— Tom Doyle (51:32)

• Church and Community Applications
  • Churches should invite those active in Muslim ministry to share testimonies and train congregants in one-on-one engagement techniques. (52:46–53:59)
  • Texas now has the largest Muslim population in the U.S.; the mission field is at the doorstep.

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9. Loving the Muslim Neighbor and Security Concerns Coexist

• Balancing Security and Compassion
  • It's possible to have legitimate concerns about radical Islam and still pursue Muslims with the love and hope of Christ.
  • Prayer and outreach are crucial to fostering both safety and spiritual awakening. (54:08–54:37)

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10. Ongoing Miracles and the Role of Women

• Radicals Encounter Christ

  • Even Isis prisoners in Syrian dungeons have experienced dreams, conversions, and miraculous intervention.
  • “Even the radicals don’t stand against Jesus’ power. They don’t stand a chance at all.” (56:50)

• Women as Spiritual Gatekeepers

  • Tom’s latest book: "Women Who Risk: Secret Agents for Jesus in the Muslim World".
  • Muslim women are often the key to entire families and communities turning to Christ, despite facing the greatest danger.
  • "We say, reach the Muslim woman, reach the Muslim world. They hold the key." (59:08)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Revival

  • "There are Muslims in all those surrounding countries… frustrated with endless wars… all of a sudden, Jesus comes in with this hope and changes everything." (02:02)

• On Martyrdom and Faith

  • "They went out and bought a piece of land so they can bury each other when they die for Jesus…" (16:34)

• On Dreams

  • "Jesus started coming to me every night in dreams for 30 nights in a row… I couldn’t wait to go to bed." (25:10–26:00)

• On Evangelism

  • "If you want them to know the truth, tell them. If you want to change their hearts, tell them a story." (52:53)

• On the Power of Women

  • "If a Muslim woman comes to faith in Christ, she will tell her children, she will tell her husband, as dangerous as that may be." (58:13)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Main Theme Introduction & Guest Welcome — 00:01–01:20
• Middle East Spiritual Revival Context — 01:20–04:37
• Ministry Operations in the Middle East — 04:37–06:06
• Ikram & Mohammed’s Story — 06:10–10:37
• Muslim Beliefs about Jesus — 11:50–13:35
• Persecution & the Price of Faith — 13:35–17:26
• Uncharted Ministries: How it Began — 18:26–23:44
• Dreams & Visions: Frequency and Impact — 25:02–29:03
• Muslims in the West: Threats, Opportunities — 29:08–31:43
• Practical Evangelism Advice — 31:55–35:27
• Persistent Questions & Objections — 37:02–38:28
• Dreams in U.S. & Personal Encounters — 44:45–47:48
• Follow-up and Discipleship — 50:05–52:46
• Church Application: Mobilizing for the Mission Field — 52:46–53:59
• Security vs. Compassion, Women’s Role — 54:08–59:27
• Closing & Resources — 59:27–end

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Books & Resources Mentioned

• "Women Who Risk: Secret Agents for Jesus in the Muslim World" – Tom and Joanne Doyle (Amazon)
• Uncharted Ministries – unchartedministries.com
• Video ministry: “I Found the Truth” – Testimony-based outreach

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Lessons & Takeaways

• The greatest revival among Muslims is largely concealed from mainstream media.
• Love, friendship, and open conversation are the most effective evangelism tools.
• God is moving supernaturally—often through dreams—by meeting Muslims where they are.
• Every Christian can play a part by simply reaching out in authentic love and sharing stories of Jesus, without fear.
• The harvest is plentiful and unprecedented—especially among Muslim women—and the church must be equipped and courageous to engage.

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For updates, more stories, or to support the ministry, visit unchartedministries.com.

Transcript

[A]

Muslims in the Middle east are having dreams and visions of Jesus and many of them are hearing the gospel in coming to Christ. The headlines aren't covering this, but our guest today, Tom Doyle, has been sharing the gospel in Gaza, in other countries in the Middle east for years. And the stories of Muslims both here in America and abroad becoming Christians, they're amazing and so encouraging. He's also got some tools and lessons for us for how we can share the gospel with our Muslim neighbors. This is an incredible and edifying episode that I know you are going to love. This episode is brought to you by the Dwell Bible app. Go to dwellbibleapp.com Download the app. You can not only read the word of God, but you can listen to the word of God. So when you're busy, you don't have time for a sit down, quiet time. When you're doing the dishes, you're in the carpool line. You can listen to the word of God and stay on track to your read the Bible in a year, if that's a goal that you have, you can get 25% off your [e-mail] ally. Tom, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. Can you tell everyone who you are and what you do?

[B]

Yeah. So I'm Tom Doyle and with Uncharted Ministries and privileged to write books on what's really happening in the Middle east behind the news. And so I think we see the terrorism, we see the bloodshed, we see the Islamic takeovers of countries, but that doesn't nullify the gospel. And Jesus said, upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will bust through it. You know, we'll bust through the gates of hell. And that's what's happening in places like Tehran and Gaza City and Syria. Muslims are coming to faith in Christ. And so that's the story that nobody gets to hear. So we get to talk about that today.

[A]

I want to hear it. So tell us what is really going on in the Middle East?

[B]

Well, I think, you know, I think October 7th was a day like, well, 1979 was a big year. If you look at 1979, the Ayatollah took over Iran, Saddam Hussein comes into power in Iraq, Russia invades Afghanistan, Egypt and Israel sign a peace treaty and Anwar Sadat gets killed in the midst of it. But there's always a spiritual answer that happens, a spiritual solution. That was the year the Campus Crusade released the Jesus film. And that flooded the Middle East. It flooded the rest of the world. But in our lifetime. Much later, October 7, 2023, the horrible attack from Hamas on Israel. And it felt like Israel got about two hours of sympathy. And then all of a sudden it turned and. And antisemitism just came popping up out of the soil. It was all over the place. People were not hiding it. I remember the next week there was a march at ucla, and they're going down the street yelling, jew, Jew. You can't hide. We'll get you with genocide. I mean, I was shocked. Nobody gets called in to the dean's office for that. And it was like the radicals became empowered, started seeing things in Europe, started seeing things in the United States. Six countries going after Israel. And so the. The game was on. And Israel defended herself. But in the midst of it, there are Muslims in all those surrounding countries that are frustrated with endless wars. Tribalism, a religion that constricts, I mean, for Sharia law, for women. I mean, it's horrible what they have to go through. And so there's the word that we hear in the Middle east among young people is hopelessness. But all of a sudden, Jesus comes in with this hope and changes everything. So right now we're seeing, really, in the last 10 years, more Muslims have come to faith in Christ than in 1400 years of Islam.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I mean, that's shocking. So it's not going to be on the news. I don't even think they would know how to spin that. Really, how they would, you know, tell that. But it's happening. So there's an exodus. Less than 30% of the population in Iran practices Islam, but yet they're the big bully in the Middle East. So that's what we focus on. But it's the fastest growing church per capita in the world. So there's good signs and the body of Christ is moving forward, and it's pretty exciting to see.

[A]

Yeah. And your ministry is on the ground in the Middle east, sharing the gospel and equipping churches. What does that look like?

[B]

So we have national leaders in all the countries around Israel and then in Pakistan and people we work with in Iran. And so many things happening. I mean, people wouldn't know this, but in the last year, a million Bibles got into Iran. The Iranian church is fast growing. They couldn't get Bibles. And so people that were willing to risk were taking them in in trucks, and things were happening inside the country where they were being run off. And so it's discipling the new believers and really preparing them for persecution. Because if you live in Gaza and your Name is Mohammed. And you come to faith in Christ and you tell one person you're going to be persecuted. And so that's what's exciting about this young church is that they're willing to suffer and they're willing to count the cost. So there are so many stories that we get, and now we're getting them almost daily from around the world of dramatic salvation stories in the midst of places where they could be killed for sharing it with one person. So it's building up the secret church, the underground church, we used to say the underground church that kind of took on a bad meeting with the underground in. In Gaza with the tunnels and all that. So the secret church is emerging throughout the Middle East.

[A]

Can you tell us one of those stories of a dramatic conversion?

[B]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. There was a young man in Gaza. We got to know his wife. Well, her. Her name is akram. And so 20 years ago, we were in the Gaza Strip and in a refugee camp. And we're just doing food, passing out food, and you have to go through Hamas to get in the refugee camp. And so we do that, and we're just giving out food and meeting people. And there's a young lady named Ikram. So we asked her, okay, Ikram, what's your goal in life? She's 20 years old. She went to Gaza University. And she said, well, I think my goal in life is to get a job, graduate from college, get a job, and then one day have enough money to buy a laptop computer. That was it. I mean, that was the ceiling. I thought, oh, my gosh. I just happened to tell that story in a church in Atlanta. And a guy came up afterwards and said, I brought a brand new Toshiba last night. I'm giving it to a crom. And I said, no, I wasn't asking. He goes, no, no, no, no. We're doing this. And so nine months later, my wife Joanne and I go back and we find the refugee camp and Ali Beth, there's no street signs, there's dead animals. It's just awful. But we find Ikram's place. And we said, ikram, remember that dream you had? And she said, yeah. And then we said, well, Jesus made it happen. And Joanne takes out a brand new computer, and it was like giving someone the keys to a brand new car. She was just, I can't believe it. So. And we didn't want to miss this opportunity. We'd loaded every Christian program in Arabic on that computer. But Bible versions worship everything. Within months, she comes to faith in Christ gloriously. We write her story in one of the books we've written. But she says, when you write my story, would you tell the people to pray for my husband? His name is Mohammed, and he's just not a good man. He's never given me a present. He's never on our wedding birthday anniversary, nothing. He treats me terrible. So we did. People right in the middle of the book would say, hey, stop. Pray for Muhammad now. Which when you say that, pray for Muhammad in the Gaza Strip. That's like praying for half of the Gaza Strip right there. Everybody's name, Mohammed. And so there, people are praying, and dramatically. He calls one day on WhatsApp, and he is ready to meet Jesus. His life changed. Ali Beth. You just can't believe where he was and what happened after that. He started reading the Bible. He started sharing his faith. He would send me Bible texts. I couldn't believe the depths of his Bible texts. I said to him one day, mohammed, where are you getting these texts? On the Internet? He said, well, I write them, Tom. I write them. And I said, wow, you have a passion for Jesus. I'm just amazed. And he said, well, I hang out with my four best friends every day. And I said, who are they? I thought it was some that he led to faith in Christ. He said, matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. I'm in the Word. I'm studying the Bible. And so he started growing, sending these texts. October 7th happens. Israel gets invaded, and then the Hamas comes back. They've got all the captives. And he is texting, saying, I can't believe they're doing this. No human being should be forced to endure this. Hamas is making a stand in the front. They want us to jeer. But I'm crying. I'm crying because this should never happen. And so he started texting, tell the Israeli soldiers they will have them in the city below the city. So we knew about a tunnel here and there being in Gaza several times. We didn't know it was bigger than the subway system in London. And so he's sending out messages to believers in Israel, and they're messaging back. We want to help the Palestinians. We don't want to hurt them. And. And just going back and forth. That is true reconciliation. Only the UN can't pull that off. That's only Jesus can do. So the life change that we see with Muslims is we know that's what Jesus said would happen. But to see it, it's just. It just warms your heart because we realize, okay, yeah, there is Christian persecution, but we're not out there just getting creamed. The body of Christ is advancing. Muslims are coming to faith in Christ and they're willing to die for their faith.

[A]

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[B]

So they believe, first of all that the Bible is corrupted, that it's been changed. They believe that Jesus is not the son of God. They believe that he did not die on the cross at the last minute, the body was switched. Some believe that it was Judas. And so they have all kinds of convoluted ideas. But yet, yet, on the other hand, there's some very good verses in the Quran about Jesus that talk about him with glowing terms more than Muhammad talks about anybody in the Quran. So there's kind of a mixed bag. And as you talk with Muslims, if you quote from the Quran, they will be shocked at the good words about Jesus. And of course a part of all of that, why they would be shocked is the estimate is like 60% of all Muslims globally never read the Quran. They don't know what's in it. They hear things from the imam, but they don't read it. It's just, you know, duty and rules and culture and, you know, everything. Ramadan, they gotta, you know, be a part of that. So many of them don't know anything. And it's a religion that swept that area with death or conversion or to pay a tax for protection. And so I think these were flimsy conversions. It was just to save their neck.

[A]

Those who converted to Islam.

[B]

Yeah. And generations later, many are starting to think outside the box, like, wait a minute, I'm not sure I even believe this. So anyway, in the worst. But we always say the worst places to be a believer are really the best places because they're just complete faith in Christ. Trust him alone for everything.

[A]

Yeah. I imagine that not everyone is receptive to the message of the gospel. Have you felt hostility from some Muslims? Obviously this is blasphemy and to leave is apostasy and you can be put to death under Sharia for, for that, for Muslims especially. But what does that been like for you?

[B]

Well, you know, we've. We've gotten thrown off the Temple Mount up in Jerusalem a couple of times from imams up there. As we were sharing things about the Dome of the Rock, we were going through the west bank with the cross. Arthur Blessed took a cross into every country in the world. He's now with the Lord. So we were going through Jericho, it's in the West Bank. Very radical Muslims. Some bad cell groups there, terrorists anyway. But we were going through with the cross. You could not believe it. The people that wanted to come up and touch the cross and ask questions, I mean, they were all Muslims. But there was one guy I could see looking out a shop at me and it looked like he had steam coming out of his ears. And I thought, he's going to be coming after me. So he does. And he just makes a beeline for me and he goes, Mr. Christian, I'll convert to Christianity if you tell me this. His name was Nimmer. Why did, if Jesus was God, why didn't he come down off that cross? So his thinking, Elizabeth, is this. He's thinking of Muhammad on the cross. If Muhammad's on the cross, his followers would have taken him off. They would have caused a war, captured everybody, killed him. That's all he can think through. And I said, I said, oh, Nimr, you know what? That's a really good question. It's an easy one too. And he said, it's easy? And I said, yeah, the reason he didn't come off the cross is because he didn't want to come off the cross. I have sin in my life and I'm sure you've done a few bad things yourself. And he. Well, and so he stayed there on purpose. Jesus said, no one takes my life. I lay it down voluntarily. So that's why he did it for you and for me. Well, he stormed off. He didn't like the truth, but you do see that. And of course, there's the threats. And our team, our uncharted team in Syria, they actually. There were 10 leaders. And it was in the midst of the war. And the national leader told the young team, it's getting worse. And they were already hanging Christians on crosses. ISIS was doing that. Let's take a week and pray and fast. If you want to stay here with your family, okay, I'm staying. But if you need to get out to Lebanon or try to immigrate to the States, we understand that. But let's pray in a week later, see what happens. So he came back a week later and he said as he was putting his hand on the doorknob in that room that was under a house, he thought, is anyone going to be in there? And he opened the door and it wasn't the 10 men. They'd recruited 15 more.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And they said, we're staying and we're prepared to die for Jesus. And so they went out because they are former Muslims, former Alawites, like Bashar Assad was an Alawite, former Druze. They went out and bought a piece of land so they can bury each other when they die for Jesus. And through all this, ISIS and now HTS taking now over, which is ISIS rebranded. Nobody's been killed. Nobody's been killed. They should have been. They've been chased by Hamas, they've been interrogated, they've been thrown in jail. Everybody's alive. So they will send correspondences to us. And this is happening. This many people got saved. And, oh, and by the way, the graveyard's still empty. So. Wow. They. They're heroes of the faith.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah. So we started doing trips to Israel in 95. I went to Dallas Seminary, and we did a trip, and I just was hooked. And so interested in the Bible and history and Jewish roots and all, really. Not tracking with the Muslims whatsoever. And I have a pastor. My wife Joanna and I, we have six kids and 17 grandkids.

[A]

That's amazing. Praise God.

[B]

I know.

[A]

What a blessing.

[B]

I know it's a tribe. And so anyway, not tracking at all with that. And one day I had to get my car fixed in Denver. We lived in the Colorado Springs area. So I'm up there. It's. I don't know, it's before the year 2000. And the car wasn't ready. Joanne drops me off. Then the mechanic says, oh, it's not ready. Can you go to this place across the street? We'll pay for your lunch. And it's a Middle east restaurant. So I go in. And I should say this. My dad was an FBI agent, Organized crime specialist.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

So I grew up in Las Vegas. Born in Chicago. Mafia. We were around Mafia. I went to Catholic school, third grade in Las Vegas.

[A]

That's why you're not intimidated?

[B]

Yeah, the only part of it. Yeah, the only kid that didn't have an Italian last name. Parisi, Sereno, Castello, all that. Anyway, so I'm up in Denver and, okay, I go to this little place across the street. It's Middle east restaurant. Well, I like falafels. I get a falafel and a Diet Pepsi. I'm sitting there, two guys walk in, and they're closer than you are. A little, little table, black leather jackets, closely cropped beards, Arabs. And there's whispering in Arabic. And I thought, they're going to do a terrorist act. I mean, I should probably phone this in now. I mean, these guys have the look, whispering in Arabic and just going back and forth, kind of looking around. And I thought, oh, so obvious. These guys are terrorists. I'm an FBI kid. I know these things.

[A]

What year was this?

[B]

So this would have been like 99.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. So anyway, one of them speaks in English and just looks over at his friend and says, mahmoud, the Lord is amazing, isn't he? And I just went. That kind of sounds like stuff we say as Christians. That's kind of where they go back to Arabic. They're whispering. Then finally, the Other guy just says, you know what? In English, Mohammed, Jesus is lord over Syria. And I just looked at him and I said, are you guys believers? They said, yeah, are you? And I was like, yeah, I used to be. I mean, before I judged you and that and thought you were terrorists and come on over. And they sat me down and started telling me me what was happening in Syria and how Muslims were coming to faith in Christ. I'd never heard this. I didn't. I didn't even think about it. Sadly, I wasn't praying for it either. Sadly, they started telling me, come to our house for dinner. And so I'm calling Joanne. You're not going to believe this story. And I just heard story after story. They were so energized. Brother, it's so wonderful to meet you. And I thought, I've got to find out more about this. So then we end up going on a mission trip into the Gaza Strip. And I will never forget it. It was right after 9, 11, 2 months. So here we are in Gaza City, and immediately, Ali Bet, this covered Muslim woman comes up to me. You just see her face. And she comes across this parking lot where we're just looking at some things. And she grabs my arm and says, you're from America, aren't you? And I said, well, yeah, I am. She goes, I could tell by the color of your eyes. I said, okay. She goes, did you see on September 11th when the buildings came down and the people in Gaza were cheering? And I said, well, yeah, I did see that. She goes, well, not me. I was crying for those people because they didn't deserve to die. And I'm so sorry. Please forgive our people for cheering on your worst day. She turned on her heel and walked away. And I thought, there's human beings in the Gaza Strip. I mean, I wasn't expecting this. And so then we had a chance to go that night to meet with the believers in an apartment building filled with Muslims all over, except this one little apartment. And they were singing, they were reading the scriptures. They were talking about Muslims that they'd shared the gospel with. And I thought, this is the Book of Acts. I mean, this is like chapter 29. You got to be kidding me. This is. They would be killed for doing what they're just talking about. And so anyway, we launched into missions. And then uncharted came along. 2017, and I found the truth, which is our video ministry that shows. Gives testimonies from Muslims that came to faith in Christ. And so many of them, Ali Beth, were visions. And Dreams and things that happened, just unreal, some of the stories that you hear. But the acid test is this. They walk away from Islam and they're willing to die for their faith. Because people say that all the time. Well, how do you know it's legit? I'm not sure. There were a lot of people in the church I pastored that were willing to die for their faith, but they are that. The acid test.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But you say that you've heard from ex Muslims who were visited by Jesus in their dreams. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[B]

Yeah, we ended up writing a book about it. And here I'm the guy that didn't believe in it, but I'm sitting in Jerusalem in a Bible study and there's Jews and Muslims. It's a reconciliation group. They don't hate each other, they love each other, transformed in Christ. So we're going around, each one is just sharing their name. The guy next to me, his name's Muhammad. And I said, wow, crazy name to have as a follower of Jesus where you just dying to get out of Islam and have a relationship with God. And he said, no, I thought I was right, and you guys were wrong. I said, well, what happened, man? He said, well, it's simple. Jesus started coming to me every night in dreams for 30 nights in a row, because it's pretty hard to just push that away and say that didn't happen. He would tell me that he loved me. He said, it got to the point I couldn't wait to go to bed at night because I was hoping Jesus would come in a dream and he would come and he would talk with me. And so since then, it's just unbelievable. We estimate that about one out of every three Muslims that comes to Faith in Christ has had a dream or a vision of Jesus. Maybe half. Now, there was a team that was in Jordan getting trained from Saudi Arabia on how to do secret church. 39 people. They didn't know each other. They were all from different areas. They found out through the Internet. They came this conference, and the leader asked at the end, how many of you had a dream about Jesus or vision before you came to Faith in Christ? All 39.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So it's happening. It's a revolution. And I just had to lay down this. I was talking with my old professor at Dallas Seminary on Moody Radio and telling him, he said, tell some dream stories. And so I said to Charlie Dyer, here's a story in Iran. Here's another one. He said, you need to write a book about Muslims having dreams about Jesus. And I said, and it was a foolish statement. I said, yeah, I'd like to do that. I don't know what evangelicals would think about it. And he said, you know what? We evangelicals need to get over ourselves. God can do whatever he wants. Over 200 times in the Bible, there's were dreams. Maybe he's using that today.

[A]

And so why do you think that Jesus seems to be using dreams as a way to communicate with these people? I'm not saying that it doesn't happen here in the States, but as a pastor of a church, I'm sure you didn't come across as, you know, very many of your congregants who were there because they saw Jesus in a dream. So why do you think that seems to be happening more prevalent there?

[B]

Yeah, here's one reason I believe it could have happened. Jesus always met people where they were. I mean, you look at the woman with the issue of blood, and she was despised. And he said, daughter, your faith has healed you. He just met her there. How would he be meeting Muslims? Through dreams. That's how Islam started. Muhammad went into a cave and Had a dream. And he says, Jibril, who is supposed to be Gabriel, downloaded the Quran, which we don't believe that's what happened. We believe it was demonic, But. So if you're with Muslims anywhere in the Middle east and we say, hey, I said this crazy dream last night, hey, let's get some coffee and talk about it, I think most people in America would say, what did you eat last night? Something disagree with you. So they see it as a viable way that God can communicate truth to them. And also, the last week in Ramadan, they have a night. It's called. It's the middle of the last week. It's called the night of power or the night of destiny. And Muslims will cry out, God, if you're there, show me yourself. Come to me in a dream, in a vision. That's the number one day of the year that Muslims have dreams about Jesus.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

They're crying out to God, and Jesus accommodates that cry and comes to them.

[A]

Yeah. What about in Muslim communities in the rest of the world? We've seen Islam growing a lot via mass migration. And places like Europe, especially the UK and some of those cities almost, it seems, 100% Muslim. What is happening in those communities? Are those communities turning to Christ?

[B]

There. There are many in the. You look at the worst places like Iran, Afghanistan, amazing things happening with Muslims. We don't see a large scale where all of a sudden Rotterdam in the Netherlands has flipped over and all those Muslims are Christian. We're not seeing that, but there are many. And it's happening all over. Dreams, visions, people sharing the gospel, Christians praying for Muslims that are sick. And all of a sudden they're well and they know that they've been praying their whole life. Nothing's happened. They wonder if God's even there. And then they're healed. That's pretty. Pretty good evidence there that something's happening. So there's a big threat. It is systematic in Europe and in America. In Dearborn, Michigan, our national leader was there, and it's. It's like. Like me growing up around the mafia in Chicago and Vegas. When you hear the. The name Genovese, you. You know what the family does for their business.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And. And so our national leader, Amir Salaam, was in Dearborn. He started hearing names in restaurants. He said, tom, these are people that were thrown out of Syria. They were so radical, they kicked him out of Syria. And he said, in the next 10 years, if they don't come to faith in Christ or we don't start deporting some of these radicals, we'll have another nine, 11. So it's paramount that we share the gospel not only for eternity, but for now, too. And so we're grateful for people that are willing to do that with Muslims. And many times they're just waiting to hear what Christ has for them.

[A]

And a lot of people, myself included, have fear in that. On the one hand, we would love for all of our Muslim neighbors to become Christians, but we are a little scared to be the ones to bridge the gap because it's not the same as sharing the gospel with the Jewish person or even with most, you know, agnostics. This is a religion that in its texts say, you know, the infidel has to die. That doesn't mean that all of our Muslim neighbors are actively practicing that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But that is inherent in the ideology, and it's scary. So what do we do? What does it look like to build those relationships to conquer that fear and to share the gospel effectively?

[B]

I think the best thing is to make a friendship starts one on one. You know, we've never seen mass stadium conversions that work. Maybe they do somewhere. We haven't seen it. It's one on one. It's we. We say this at uncharted. Every soul matters. So my wife Joanne does a seminar for women, how to love Muslims to Christ. And we were in Tyler one day, and so Joanne said, okay, ladies, I'm going to give you an assignment this week. When you're out and there are Muslims in Tyler, if you see one, your job is to go up and meet them and just start a conversation. So, like, where are you from? Well, they might say, well, I'm from America. Oh, okay, well, where's your family originally from? Oh, I'm from Egypt. Oh, I've always wanted to go to Egypt. Begin a conversation. Begin a conversation. So it ends up that later on we found out about that group. And there was one lady that was in the supermarket in Tyler, Texas, and a Muslim woman comes in and she goes, I'm not ready for this. I'm not ready to go up and talk to her. So she starts making these promises to the Lord, if I go down this aisle and she's on the next aisle, I'm going to talk to her. So she goes down the aisle, comes up, there she is. Okay, if she's on the next aisle, I'm going to talk. She does this three times, and finally it ends up she goes, okay, Lord, here I go. She goes around that corner and starts pushing her basket really fast toward this Muslim lady. Well, there was another lady that had been on the other side of the store. And she comes around the corner and she's walking real fast toward this Muslim lady. And she's looking like, what is this? And they were just going to meet her and get her name, and they found her to be very warm, very lonely, and they were able to get coffee with her. That's where it starts. Tell me about your life. And then what we like to do is tell gospel stories. So if we meet someone, I meet Mohammed from Lebanon, I'll just say, hey, tell me your life. How did you get here? They might be a refugee. And then we say, wow, okay, that's an amazing story. Can I tell you a story? Sure. Okay. This is a true story from the Word of God. The Jesus friends were in a boat one day and the wind started whipping, the waves started splashing. We go through that story, and Jesus calms us the. And then we just end with this. And that's a true story from the Word of God. So, hey, Mohammed, what do you think of that story? Does that make sense? Do you think it's real? What do you think? And you're getting them to engage in the Word without pulling this out, which would freak them out. And they're relating to the Bible. And then they may want to hear another story. And then after that, we say, okay, I heard your story. We told God's story. Here's my story. Okay, what's your story? I used to be religious, but I gave it up. They'll say, you're not religious? No, not religious. What do you mean? There's too many rules. And when I kept the rules, I didn't feel any closer to God. And my story is really their story. That's the same way they feel. And oftentimes they want to hear more. So if you can get to that point where you share God's word, they will listen to it. And when we say this, this is a true story from the Word of God. We have never had one Muslim say, wait a minute, wait a minute. Is that from the Quran or the Bible? Never happened. Somehow there was some authority there that just stopped them in their tracks, and they listened to it.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah, I mean, they'll often say it's a white man's religion and not knowing that Christianity started, you know, in their own backyard. They don't understand that the whole thing about Jesus saying he's the son of God, no, he's just a prophet, they can't accept that. But what we do is go to passages where Jesus declares that. So if someone says, well, I don't believe that, we'll just open it up and say, well, you know, Here in John 15 it says this, read this. What do you think Jesus is saying? Well, I think he's saying he's the son of God. Yeah, I think that's what he's saying too. And that just seems to bypass it. So they have struggles with that. Politics gets involved in it too. They always want to know how you voted, man. That is a non starter when they go down that political road.

[A]

And this is mostly for Muslims in America.

[B]

Yes. And around the world too. They'll want to know, like what really.

[A]

What messages are they hearing that is making them think that if you vote, I'm guessing if you vote Republican, then they think you don't like me.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So the same kind of messages that we hear in the mainstream media, they're hearing too.

[B]

Yeah. And I mean, when Obama was president, we would be in Egypt. And I'm telling you, none of the Muslims there believed that he was a Christian because he said he went to Jeremiah writes church and maybe visited a Few times they said, well, you're Muslim president. I mean, they would just say it openly.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. That wasn't said openly here, but it sure was out there.

[A]

Yeah. That's so interesting how American media narratives and American politics. I've heard that from other people, including in Africa. We have friends that immigrated from Africa, from Kenya and Zimbabwe, and they had other immigrant friends who just told them when they got here, hey, you don't, you don't vote Republican if you're an immigrant. Which of course they are very smart people and thought for themselves and all of that. But it's interesting. And I remember the late Vodi Bauckham, you know, he was the head of a seminary there in Zambia, I believe it was, and he would talk about how the narratives about systemic racism and things, which I just think are so American actually would make their way over to places like that.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And have an effect on their ideology and theology. That. That's fascinating and troubling.

[B]

Yeah, really is. And you know what? When it comes to the threat of Islam that we're all feeling, we are. I mean, I think this verse, John 16:1, it says this. Jesus said on the night that he was betrayed. All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. And then he says, they will put you out of the synagogue. And then there's a colon there and it stops. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are doing a service for God. They will do this because they have not known me or the Father. I think the first half of that verse, Elipeth, is about Judaism and the early church. Put him out of the synagogue, get him out of the way. There weren't mass killings. There were some killings. But I think the second half of that verse is about Islam. In fact, the time is coming when they think killing you is doing a service to God. So that's why during the ten year war in Syria, if a vial of blood was sent to Saudi Arabia to certain people and you could prove that it was from a Christian that lost their Life, you'd get $2,000. So I mean, this was just a part of it. This was well known on the streets. And so there is that side, that dark demonic side that's happening. But then there's the people that come to faith in Christ. And I think of this one girl, Dina, in the Gaza Strip that was a teacher. And the teachers in the summer have to do. It's like a Hamas vacation, Bible school. I mean, the Hamas comes In all the school, kids in a certain age group are indoctrinated. They dress them up with suicide bomber vests, they get fake guns, they kill the Jews, all of that. And she comes to faith in Christ that month, and then later that month they're going to have this school where every. She has to do it. And Dina gets a hold of us and says, I'm not doing that this year. I'm talking about Jesus, the good shepherd, and that he loves us and we're going to do crafts and we're going to read the Bible and we're going to tell them about Jesus. This is in Gaza in a wild, dark place. And so we said to Rodina, they're going to kill you for doing that. Are you afraid of them doing that? And she said, no, I already crossed that bridge when I gave my life to Jesus. And she did it.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And we got the pictures and there's kids with signs saying, I love Jesus. These are heroes of our faith. This is like Hebrews 11 today, where people are going to the worst places you can imagine and they're not afraid.

[A]

Yeah, it's really convicting for us. Not that there is no danger, but it's not as present and as imminent and as sure as it is for people there. But I mean, she's basically quoting scripture by saying, look, I counted the cost when I came to Christ and I already decided that my life is, you know, it's something to be laid down for the gospel. So she already died to herself.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

She'd already died to herself. And that's how we should all think.

[B]

So true.

[A]

That's a good lesson for us from Dina about sharing the gospel here is that it might be dangerous.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like the, the promise from Jesus is not that it won't be dangerous. It's not that they won't kill you, it's that they can't kill your body and soul.

[B]

That's right. That's so true.

[A]

And so that's a really good lesson.

[B]

For learn, you know? So it is happening here where people are meeting Jesus and having experiences like in the Middle East. So we lived in Colorado for 20 years. Summers were nice, like shorts and a sweatshirt. We lived at 7,500ft. And then we move here and it's like, oh my gosh, so hot. So I was in a meeting all day, mission meeting, like all day. And then it's time to go and it's five o'. Clock. And I thought, shoot, I gotta pick up Joanne. And she's all the way across town and we have a dinner. We're not gonna make it in time. So I get up on the Busch freeway, and The Honda says, 4 miles till empty. Oh, gosh. So I pull off, and there's three stations and there's a fino. Okay, I'll go there. So I stick in my credit card, and it says, must see cashier. And I just went, oh, come on, Lord, can I get a break today? You know, I have such a tough life. And so I go into the station to put my card down, and a Muslim woman walks up to me, and she's covered, and she's getting it set up for me to use the pump. And I said, wow, you're Muslim. We work in the Middle East. We do humanitarian efforts and things like that. We've spent a lot of time there. Where are you from? She goes, will you go to the Middle East a lot? And I said, yeah. And she goes, okay, then you have to guess. I said, oh, Egypt? She goes, nope, Saudi Arabia. And I said, you're kidding. And so I said, you know, I have a book in the car about how God is honoring your people. God is lifting the Muslim people up. And she said, what do you mean by that? And I said, he's coming to them. He's coming to them all around the world. He's coming in dreams. I wrote a book about Muslims having dreams about Jesus. She said, you wrote a book about that? I said, yeah. And she goes, hmm, Because I've been having dreams about Jesus.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I just went, okay, Lord, forgive me for whining about the humidity. You know, I'm going to be late, whatever. And so I give her this book, and a couple days later, I'm going to get gas. And I thought, oh, I need to stop there. And then, oh, I need to go to that pump. So I go to the pump and I stick the card, and it works perfectly.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

See, I don't think it was a card malfunction. I think it was an order from God. It didn't say, please see kesher. It said, money, see cashier. I go in, and this woman, Raweah is reading dreams and visions. And I said, do you like this? And she goes, this book is like my life. And I said, what do you mean? She said, jesus has been coming to me for 30 years now in dreams. I said, 30 years. Didn't you ever ask a Christian or go to a church and try to get answers? And she goes, plenty of times. But I don't know, I felt like people maybe were afraid of me because I was Muslim and. But I just knew this, that Jesus told me that he loved me so much in these dreams, one day he was coming for me. And I said, rawia, I think it's today. I mean, I'm thinking this is the day. And I share the gospel through Romans. And I said, what do you think? She said, I'm ready. We held hands in the Fina gas station, and she prayed and received Christ and it was glorious. And nobody walked in, interrupted us. How many ruiyas are out there, Ali Beth? How many people are neighbors that I don't know about them, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The gospel is risky and it's time for Christians to just do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so, you know, we're seeing it all up. One. One friend of ours who's now with the Lord. They got excited about meeting Muslims and sharing with them, and they realized there was a Muslim family on their block that they'd never met for years as they just knocked on the door and said, we're your neighbors. We haven't met you and we're sorry, we haven't. Would you come over to our house for dinner? And they said, yes, we would love to. So they get all excited. They're trying to make hummus and things that they would like. The family was from Kuwait and they show up and the kids are just, like, wound up. Like, they thought they drank Red Bull on the way over. They're knocking the water over and all that. And the mom finally says, I'm so sorry. I'm humiliated. The kids are excited, and they're excited because we've lived here for 12 years and this is the first time we've ever been invited into someone's house.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And then they find out they're related to royalty in Kuwait. They're not exactly on the terrorist list, you know. And so, hey, I would just say this. Muslims are open more now than ever in 14 centuries to the gospel of Jesus. They are responding and they're waiting. And so it's up to us to go introduce them to Jesus.

[A]

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[B]

We're not sure on a few of them. Yeah. You know, after smuggling Bibles into Iran a couple of times, maybe we're not sure. But I will never forget being there with the, the, the secret church and how they just needed Bibles. And we, we were in Esfahan, which is close to a nuclear reactor that Israel just hit, you know, months ago. And we're just on the corner meeting people. And Muslims were just stopping by. You're Americans. Are you Christians? Yeah. And do you have Bibles? And. Yes, we do. And just handing them out. And I mean, there was a roundabout we were on and people were just going and sticking their arms out, wanting a Bible. And so probably we're on the radar. I don't know. Doesn't matter. But God's word is always going to be triumphant, never returns. Void. Yeah. And so it's just worth it.

[A]

Yeah. For those who are like, okay, I know a Muslim in our community who, you know, lives on my street or whatever, I want you to finish the rest of that story that you were talking about, sharing the gospel. And you said, I used to be religious, but I'm not. It was too hard to keep rules. And you said that your story reflected their story.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But can you bring that over the finish line so other people might be able to use that same model?

[B]

Yes. Yeah. So then you've heard their story, and then we've heard God's story, stories about Jesus and then our story that we used to be religious. And they will resonate with that they will resonate. And we shared this exactly with a guy that was a former terrorist in Syria, in Jordan, and we said, that's what it's about. It's about Jesus. And this guy had been hardened. Our leaders didn't like to visit him, but we didn't know that someone had met them and given him a Bible, and he and his wife started reading it. And when we said, it's so simple. You can give your lives to Christ, the Bible says if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved. You give your life to Christ, repent of your sins. And we did that with this man and his wife. And he looked at his wife and he said, that's exactly what we've been waiting for, isn't it? And she said, that's it. And they were ready to pray. And so the hard job is after that to follow them up, because that, you know, they will still be under the influence of Islam. How can they be disciples? How can you get them into the Word and help them grow? And that's really important. So it's getting them away from religion. Religion gives you rules. Jesus gives you life, and they're all looking for that. And so I think it's easy to just go into the Gospel. And many Muslims may have to hear it several times before they respond. So if they don't respond, that's okay. They heard it. The next person can pick it up. Whoever God leads to them.

[A]

Yeah, that's so important to remember that we are just one touch point on someone's testimony. Whether you are the person that God uses to bring them over the finish line, or you're the very first Christian that they meet. There may have been 10,000 different moments that God has used in that person's life so true to bring them to himself. Tell us what churches and pastors can be doing. They're listening to this and they're like, I don't know if my church is doing enough to minister to the Muslims either abroad or here. What's the first step?

[B]

I think the best thing they could do, a pastor, could have someone come in, maybe from our team, and share on a Sunday morning where they can really hear how the gospel is breaking through the difficult areas, hear the stories. We always say this. If you want to tell someone truth, tell them, you know, if you want them to know the truth, tell them. If you want to change their hearts, tell them a story. When they start seeing these stories and seeing the before and after pictures of men and women that have come to faith in Christ that had hardened looks, and all of a sudden they have the fruit of the spirit. I mean, it's convincing. And so then after that, it's very simple. Just have a training with people on how to engage Muslims in Conversations, and we can do that. And so it works here, works in Europe, we're doing that in Europe, works in the Middle East. And so real simple, but devote some time. Hey, we live in Texas. There's a huge Muslim population. It's the largest Muslim population in America. I believe it used to be Michigan. I think we're number one now. And so we need to be able to share. God's brought them to the Bible Belt. I mean, it couldn't be any better than this. We have an opportunity to share with them lots of believers that can share the love of Christ.

[A]

So, yeah, and I think it's important what you said earlier about your friend who is in Dearborn and realized, okay, we've got some radical Muslims that are coming over here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that presents a threat. So you can have concerns about immigration and the Islamification of the west and love these people at the same time. And really, those two things kind of go hand in hand. Like, we want them to be released from enslavement to Islam. We want them to know Christ and bear the fruit of the spirit. And so it's not one or the other. Sometimes people pit those things against each other. No, we love our neighbor. We share the gospel and we have concerns about immigration policy and all that.

[B]

It's so true. We have a friend that was a pastor in Syria, and there was a couple that kept coming and visiting him. They're having dreams and visions. They're Muslim. I mean, they're covered. It's a big deal that they walk down a Christian street. But finally they are ready. Their children are ready. He leads them to faith. So this is an on the ground church. I mean, you have three churches now. You have the underground church, the secret church on the ground, and then the cyber church, the above ground church. But this is on the ground. It's a church in Syria. Then they want to be baptized. And he said, okay, this is the line in the sand. If your family, if your relatives find out about this, it'll cause you problems. You could die. We're ready. So it ends up, they do get baptized. Somehow a relative finds out and the pastor finds himself arrested in northern Syria. They take him all the way down to Damascus and put him in the third story below the ground floor. It's called the Damascus Dungeon. They put him in there. His wife doesn't know what's going to happen. He's going to get beaten up. They put him in a cell with 39 other Muslims, and it should hold about 20 people. I mean, they're just crouched together. And he just thought, I'm going to die here. I mean, there's no way I'm going to escape this. So when the guard comes in, is just throwing PETA on the floor, and they're all running for it, he just grabs one and says, hey, in my faith, we pray before we eat. Can I pray? And the guy that's kind of the head ISIS dude looks at him, what? He goes, well, I like to pray before I eat. Can we pray? Whatever. So he prays. Something shifted in that cell. After he prayed, the authority of God came. Miracles started happening that night. He goes to sleep. He leans against the wall and sits all the way down so nobody can come up behind him. And he's asleep. He feels a tap, and there's a guy whispering in his ear. And he said, if we ever get out of here, can you memorize my number? He goes, why? He goes, because Jesus is coming to me in dreams. The next night, another guy comes. The next night, two guys come. It ends up that it was six or seven come to him while he's in jail. The end of the week, shockingly, they just let him out of jail. Never touched, never beaten up, nothing. And his wife comes to pick him up. They call and say, your husband's out of jail. And so she gets there just thinking, what's he like? We're gonna have to go to the hospital. And she runs up, hugs him. How did it go? And he goes, it was the best week of my life. I'd never seen God move with such dangerous people like that as I did in that cell. It was the best week of my life. They've had those gospel conversations. Those. Those guys and their families have come to faith in Christ. Even the radicals don't stand against Jesus power. They don't stand a chance at all.

[A]

Amen. So that's what God is up to.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Okay, tell us more about your books, where people can get them.

[B]

Sure, we're on Amazon. And so Tom and Joanne Doyle. The last one we wrote is Women who Risk Secret Agents for Jesus in the Muslim World. And it's all about women. But we wanted to write that. Joanna and I were talking about wherever we go. Iraq, Syria, all these places is. It seems like Eli Beth. It starts with the women. And one day we were talking about that in the house, and Joanne said, well, you know, I think women are just the spiritual gatekeepers of their family. And I went, bingo. Yes, they are. And so if a Muslim woman comes to faith in Christ, she will tell her children, she will tell her husband, as dangerous as that may be. So we wrote a book about women going into their villages, sharing and telling what Christ has done to them for them. So Amazon, you can go to Unchart Ministries.

[A]

It was women who first saw the empty grave.

[B]

Finance Jesus ministry. Yeah.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

And you know what we don't see in the New Testament? A woman rejecting Jesus. We see a lot of men that do. Isn't that something interesting? Yeah.

[A]

I mean, that's a whole other lesson that we can learn because in America, we see a lot of women leaving the church, men coming to the church, and women going the secular route. But that's kind of reinvigorates me to share the gospel with those women that we see that example in Christ in the New Testament.

[B]

We do. I mean, it's just happening now. We say, reach the Muslim woman, reach the Muslim world. They hold the key. And they don't have a lot of rights. They don't.

[A]

So you would think they might have most to lose. And if you look at it from a particular perspective, certainly.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's amazing. And your ministry, how can people learn more about that and support you?

[B]

That'd be great. Thank you. Uncharted. You just go to unchartedministries.com u n c h a r t e d unchartedministries.com and we're about reaching the unreached, standing with the persecuted. Wow.

[A]

Well, thank you so much, Tom. I really appreciate it.

[B]

Privilege to be with you. Thank you.

[A]

Thank you. Sa.