← Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
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James Talarico is the left wing atheist version of a good Christian. That tells you a lot about the danger of his theology, the damage of his politics. But we're going to take a deep dive into who he is, what he believes, and the denomination that shaped him. On today's episode of Relatable. It's brought to you by our friends at Good ranchers. Go to good ranchers.com use code ALI at checkout. That's good ranchers.com code ALI foreign. Hey guys, Happy Monday. Welcome to Relatable. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. So James Talarico won his primary, but the good news is that God's eternal plan of redemption is still going off without a hitch, that nothing surprises him. Even Jasmine Crockett losing her election. Nothing takes him aback, nothing throws him off. He always knows exactly what's going to go on. He is sovereign over everything. R.C. sproul used to say there are no maverick molecules in all creation. Everything is in accordance to God's perfect will. And even all the craziness and the wickedness and the evil that goes on in the world, while God doesn't cause any of that, he is still completely in control and he's not doing nothing about that evil. Psalm 37 reminds us that he's coming back, that his anger is kindling, that his wrath is growing and he will avenge his people. He's not doing nothing about the wickedness and the sin, the injustice that goes on in the world. He is going to take care of it once and for all. He is the God of true justice. He is the source of truth. And when Jesus comes back, he won't arrive again as a meek and mild baby, but he will come as a warrior to make all things right, to make all things new. So whatever angst you feel about things that are disjointed or disordered or or wrong in the world, just trust that God feels much angrier and more incensed about injustice and oppression and he is going to do something about it. And in the meantime, he has preordained that you and I believers that through our obedience, which might seem silly to the world, which might seem even mundane or meaningless to us, that his will is actually accomplished through our words and through our actions. God doesn't need us. He doesn't need our prayers. He doesn't need our evangelism. He doesn't need our acts of courage to glorify Himself or to accomplish his purpose. But in his grace and in his providence, he has chosen these things to be a means by which he does his work. And so just know this beautiful comfort that nothing in the life of a believer is wasted. There is nothing truly mundane. There is nothing truly boring or meaningless. Every single thing we do echoes in eternity. And it won't be until the other side of glory that we see the fullness of the task tapestry of our testimonies and how God has woven them together. So just remember doing the next right thing in faith, with excellence, and for the glory of God, which we say every week on this show, it's not just about you doing the right thing. It is also about advancing God's kingdom, which is done through the mostly unseen and unsung acts of faithfulness of believers. And so we get to be a part of this grand narrative that is because of God always going off without a hitch. No matter what happens in an election, no matter what the political climate here is, no matter what's going on with World War 3, God is completely in charge. That's what we take comfort in. And we take hope that Jesus will claim ultimate victory once and for all. Part of what we have to do as Christians is be a beacon of clarity and courage in this world that is constantly rewarding cowardice and is rife with confusion and chaos. And when a person rises up who represents that confusion and chaos, but disguises it as light and truth and goodness, it is the responsibility of Christians, especially Christians with a platform, with a microphone like mine, or for pastors out there with a pulpit like yours, to ensure that we are pushing back against the confusion. Because remember, Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Satan looks good. He sounds good. Remember that the fruit in the Garden of Eden and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, it looked good. It looked like it would taste good. And remember, when Satan is trying to tempt Jesus in the wilderness, what does he use? He uses scripture. So Satan knows the Bible. He makes his lies sound scriptural, sound holy, sound good, and sound palatable to the world, and slowly but surely chips away at our conscience, chips away at our wisdom, and leads us down a literally damning path. And I think the person who is most prominent that represents that best, that evil disguised as goodness, is James Talarico. James Talarico is a Texas state representative that is now the Democratic candidate for Senate in Texas. So on March 3, Talarico defeated Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett in the Texas Democratic primary for U.S. senate. So he defeated her 52.4% to 46.2%. According to CNN. He really the fastest growing Stars, Fastest rising stars, I would say fastest growing, really? Celebrities. On the left side, he's got more than 2 million followers on Instagram and 1.6 million on TikTok. And if you look at his opponents on the Republican side, John Cornyn, Ken Paxton, they're in a runoff right now, and so we don't actually know who will be facing him in November. On the Republican side, their social media footprint is much, much small than his. That is not necessarily an indicator of who is going to win the election, but obviously that means that Cordyn and Paxton have some work to do, especially when it comes to the younger demographics. Um, there is an analysis of social media engagement among Democratic officials, and Talarico trailed only Kamala Harris and Barack Obama. Okay, so when it comes to social media influence, Talarico is number three. This guy reminds me a lot of Beto o'. Rourke. Remember, Beto ran for a lot of things. He ran primarily, or the race that I remember the most was against Ted Cruz. And he was literally that, like, how do you do fellow kids meme, if you know what I'm talking about, Especially since his prop was actually a skateboard. We'll play you a video of that. Remember that? That was his way to relate to the kids and to relate to the voters. And Talarico kind of has the same air. He's trying to relate to the young people. But his prop, his way of relating to the youths is following only fans accounts on Instagram. I'm not kidding. That was reported by the New York Post several months ago. Despite this kind of, like, choir boy, preacher, Christian shtick that he has going on, it was reported in November 2025 that he was following at least 10 accounts on Instagram belonging to only fans, models, escorts, things like that. Just very, like, weird and. And creepy. That would have been an absolute disqualifying scandal. I think that if you had someone who called himself a Christian preacher on the Republican right and was following those accounts, you would hear cries of hypocrisy, and rightly so. But this was just a blip on the radar for this guy. This was kind of just a feature of his multifaceted personality, I guess. He also appeared on Joe Rogan in July of last year, and we'll play some of those clips. We responded to them at the time, so you can go back and kind of listen to that breakdown. But Rogan told him in that interview that he should run for president. Joe Rogan told James Talarico, this radical leftist, that he should run for president. Politico noted that Talarico took a, quote, big tent approach to his campaign by appealing to voters from both parties and independents. And an example of that is his reply to Greg Abbott just the other day after the Austin shooting last weekend, where he said dangerous people should not be allowed into the country. Okay? Dangerous people should not be allowed to get gun. Texans understand this, he says to Greg Abbott. You apparently don't. Greg Abbott was responding to James Talarico saying that this was some gun show loophole, which of course is not true. But that's actually the most moderate I've heard, James Talarico, and that is his strategy there. Democrats always moderate when they're running in these red states, but he is a radical. Just listen to what he actually believes about immigration policy.
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Our southern border should be like our front porch. There should be a giant welcome mat out front.
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One key to his rising prominence has been promoting a big tent version not just of the Democrat party, but also of Christianity. And it's big tent in some sense in that people of all different faiths and all different backgrounds and all different moralities can be counted as Christian, according to James Talarico, especially except for those of us who call ourselves evangelicals and actually believe the Bible to be authoritative. He is a progressive seminary student. He's a former middle school teacher. He publicly supports abortion, homosexuality and transgenderism. As we will get into he often appeals to his progressive Christian morals, even though that's an oxymoron, and believes to defend his arguments and his policy positions, even as he criticizes conservative Christians for being Christian nationalists, for bringing our convictions into the public square in similar ways, but with opposite views. And this is a tactic that has made him go viral several times in the past year and has made him very appealing to a lot of people, even moderate. So we'll go through some of those views and we'll go into his background. What led James Talarico to the place that he is now? And what was the theological upbringing and the influence on his life that made him land on some of the wildest and most unhinged positions that you can think of? Let me pause and tell you about our first sponsor for the day that is Seven Weeks Coffee. So thankful for Seven Weeks Coffee, not only because they provide really great tasting, high quality, sustainably sourced and ethically grown and better than organic coffee beans, but also because they allow their coffee to serve a higher purpose. At seven weeks gestation, that baby inside the womb is the size of a coffee bean, yet he or she is fully made in God's image and really matters. And that's why 10% of every sale of seven weeks coffee goes to pregnancy centers across the country. They have now raised well over a million dollars for these pregnancy centers. That has translated into saving thousands of baby lives. So it's just a win all around. You get great tasting coffee from seven weeks and you help save these little baby lives. When you subscribe to Seven Weeks Coffee, you save 15%. Plus when you use my code ali at checkout, you save an extra 10%. That's seven weeks coffee.com, use code ALI at checkout. That's seven weeks coffee. Com. In 2021, Talarico put God into radical transgender ideology in his support for laws that would allow kids to be mutilated on the Texas house floor. Here's salt one.
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The first two lines of the Bible the first two lines in Genesis use two different Hebrew words to describe God. One is the masculine Hebrew noun for divinity. The second is the feminine Hebrew noun for spirit. God is both masculine and feminine and everything in between. God is non binary.
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So it's actually true that God is not male or female like we are. He doesn't have a body like we do. And yet this statement is inaccurate because God consistently refers to Himself as father, as King, as Lord in masculine terms. Also, if you go down further into Genesis 1, Genesis 1 27, it's very clear that regardless of what you think about the masculine features or the feminine features of God the Father, what is clear is that he made us male and female. There are not multiple words there used for male and female. In fact, we read that God made man in his image male and female. He created them. So he didn't say male, female and non binary that he made multiple forms of chromosomal combinations that you can have besides XX and xy, he created us male and female. So we see Talarico this theme over and over again. Again that he really uses God as a mascot, as a means to advance his political ends. He does not submit to God as the ruler and the authority over the universe. If he actually believed what Genesis 1:1 says, that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, then he would see if he's creator, then he's also the ruler over all of it. Then he's the definer of all things. He's he's the arbiter of truth, the determinant of morality. And he and he alone has the right and responsibility to be the decider of all things, the definer of all things. He and he alone gets to say what's right and what's wrong, what's true and what's false, what a woman is, what she's not, when life begins, why it matters to define the parameters of holy sexuality and to decide what marriage is. But of course he doesn't submit to God as the creator and the ruler of all things. He sees God is a political pawn. Also, James Talarico decided to turn a sermon at a local church, St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church around Austin, around Round Rock, into some kind of political stump speech about transgenderism and abortion.
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This summer, more than half our population became second class citizens. Every one of our neighbors with a uterus became the property of the state. And nothing, nothing is more unchristian than that. I want to acknowledge that our trans community needs abortion care too. Defending trans Texans is something we have to do every day at the state capitol. And you better believe I'll be giving sermons on that too. So when I use the word woman, it should not be understood as an exhaustive term, but rather as a lens through which to understand, examine and interrogate patriarchy.
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So right there he gives us three positions that a Democrat of even 10 years ago would not have dared to represent publicly. One, that it's normal and even moral to switch sexes, that it's possible to actually switch sexes, and that it is important that people who do switch sexes, especially people who identify as so called trans men, are able to have a taxpayer funded right to kill their baby inside the womb. And then the other position that, that this nexus is so important that it needs to be represented publicly at a church. And also this cumbersome language of people with uteruses really reduces what a woman is into her just biological capacity, into her reproductive organs, which is the exact opposite of what progressives say that they're doing. So who is James Talarico? How did this person with all of these kooky beliefs rise to such prominence? He was first elected as a Texas House representative in 2018 after he defeated Republican Cynthia Flores. And he rose to prominence a couple years ago when he went viral for his videos of speeches on the Texas House floor opposing the legislation to display the Ten Commandments in Texas classrooms. Stop. 4.
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Forcing our religion onto Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh and atheist students is not love. Forcing teachers to put up a poster in their classrooms against their wills is not love. Love does no harm to a neighbor.
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Okay. I bet he would argue, though, that Christian teachers could be forced to call a child by the wrong preferred pronouns or could be forced to teach things about the acceptance of LGBT LGBTQ ideology, even though it opposes their worldview. And he says this is forcing religion upon people who don't believe in Christianity. But of course, that's not true. Displaying the Ten Commandments is about American history. You actually cannot understand Western civilization. You can't understand America without understanding Christianity, without knowing the Bible, without understanding the Ten Commandments. So even just from a literary or historical, educational perspective, displaying the Ten Commandments, I think is really important, foundational in understanding the country that we live in. But also they're just good rules for life. And it's really hard, I think, from a moral perspective, to argue against them. Talarico is a lifelong professing Christian, and he often cites his grandfather as a major influence. His grandfather was a Baptist preacher who taught him. Jesus's greatest command, he says, is to love God and Love your neighbor. Stop. 5.
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My granddad was a Baptist preacher in South Texas, and when I was little he told me that Christianity is a simple religion. Not an easy religion, he would always clarify, but a simple religion. Because Jesus gave us two commandments. Love God and love neighbor. And there was no exception to that second commandment, love thy neighbor, regardless of race or gender or sexual orientation or immigration status or religious affiliation. And it's why I have fought so hard for the separation of church and state in the state capitol in Texas.
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Obviously, it is true that the greatest commandments are to love God and love your neighbor. How do we obey God? We obey God by keeping his commandments and we love others by defining love. How God defines love. First John 4:8, God is love. So love isn't affirming sin. Love isn't telling someone they could be born in the wrong body. Love isn't refusing to show people the truth and the Ten Commandments, or refusing to preach the gospel to people. Love is walking and speaking in agreement with God. Because we can't out love God, we can't out compassion him. So the most loving thing we can do with our lives with our words is agree with God. Now, Talarico is still a member of his childhood congregation. It's a very progressive church in Austin, St. Andrew Presbyterian Church. And it shouldn't be surprising at all that in the About Us page of this church, it says we are Christ centered. Yet it's never good when you see a church saying we are Christ centered, but we respect and learn from all religions of love. Well, again, that's just not a Christian position. If God is love and we believe in the triune God, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, that no other religion believes in, then he is actually the only source of love. There aren't other religions of love in addition to Christianity. So it doesn't come as a surprise that he is essentially Talarico is essentially a universalist who claims to be a Christian and uses some Christian tenets, but actually doesn't believe in the exclusivity of Christ. We'll get into that in just a second. Let me pause tell you about our next sponsor that is Alliance Defending Freedom. So we've got some amazing news from our friends at adf. They've just announced that the state of Vermont has agreed to change its policy that discriminated against Christian foster families. Families like the Gantz and other families. We've had Jessica Bates on the show. She won our share the Arrows award last year. She won was or is a mom up in Oregon who was discriminated against in the foster care system simply for being a Christian while in the state of Vermont. They've reversed their decision because of the incredible tireless work of Alliance Defending Freedom. These families in Vermont had taken in siblings and even focused on caring for kids, specifically with struggles like fetal alcohol syndrome. But these parents lost their foster licenses because they refused to compromise. They compromise their faith by participating in the lie of radical gender ideology. ADF fights for the rights of parents who want to foster and adopt without consenting to allowing their child to attempt to change their gender. I mean, this is just so obvious. And we need lawyers like the ones at ADF fighting for those rights. Go to joinadf.com ally learn more about this incredible victory and how you can support ADF. Join ADF.com ally. He also did an interview with Ezra Klein of the New York Times where he essentially says all religions are true.
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I believe Christianity points to the truth. I also think other religions of love point to the same truth. I think of different religious traditions as different languages. So you and I could sit here and debate what to call this cup, and you could call it a cup in English, you'd call it something else in Spanish and French. But we are all talking about the same reality. I believe Jesus Christ reveals that reality to us. But I also think that other traditions reveal that reality in their own ways with their own symbol structures. And I've learned more about my tradition by learning more about Buddhism and Hinduism and Islam and Judaism. And so I see these beautiful faith traditions as circling the same truth about the universe, about the cosmos.
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Well, there's certainly nothing beautiful about Islam, that is for sure. We can see the fruit of Islam throughout the world, which stands for everything that Talarico claims to stand against. The oppression of women and children, violence, certainly there is gross wealth disparities that are actually pushed forward by tyrannical policy in places where Islamic regimes are in charge. And then, I mean, the obvious truth is that you can be someone who believes those things, but you can't be a Christian and believe that all religions kind of of point to the same truth. Because in John 14:6, the Jesus that James Talarico claims to follow says, I am the way, the truth, the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Except through me. He is affiliated with the fully affirming Presbyterian Church of the United States of America. So this is PC usa. There's PC usa, which is liberal, and we'll get into that in a second. And then there's pca, that is a collection of churches within Presbyterian sectarianism that are more theologically conservative or theologically faithful. His church is also part of what's called the Reproductive Freedom Congregations. This is a Texas movement to remove abortions stigma. The church also celebrates transgenderism. We played you that clip earlier where he's at his church saying, trans communities need abortion care, neighbors with uteruses. Talarico has a year of classwork left before he receives his M. Div. From Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary, obviously a very progressive institution. He's studying to be a pastor. But he says, of course, his studies are on hold because he believes that this is where God has called him right now. He said this in a New Yorker article from February. We'll get more into the history of Presbyterianism in a second and how this kind of shaped his ascendance and shaped his theology. First, I want to dive in a little bit to that New Yorker article. So the New Yorker published a profile of Talarico on February 23 titled James Talarico Puts His Faith in Texas Voters. This is an excerpt where Talarico was in a room with former Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings and First Presbyterian Church of Dallas senior pastor Amos De Salsa. De Salsa asked Talarico, what kind of welcome are you getting from evangelicals? The reason he's asking this is because 90% of white evangelicals voted for President Trump in 2024. And Talarico said, you know, we think that we can make headway with Christians evangelicals. And he shrugged. He's distinguishing here between Christians who he believes are Christians and evangelicals. What he's doing is insinuating that evangelicals are a lost cause because evangelicals won't vote for him, Talarico said in an interview last year. There are a lot of people who feel that the Democratic Party in recent has been hostile to people of faith talking about faith. He added, this creates an opportunity for connection. I don't think it automatically wins you over, but it starts a conversation. So we can see here what his goals are. His goals are to appeal to Christians. Most Christians, no matter your denomination, do vote Republican. Now it gets more and more Republican the deeper you get into Christianity, with white evangelicals being the stronghold for conservatism. They also lead the way in church attendance, read lead the way and reading their Bible every day. Lead the way and making donations that it really does like as a white evangelical, the reason for this, the reason that we have the most conservative, I would say, biblical position on issues like marriage, sex, sexuality, even things like immigration. It really does go back to our love for the Bible and our belief in the importance of solid theology. The further you get away from that, the more liberal you're going become. So if we look at Pew research, for example, evangelical Christians have higher church attendance rates around 60% than other Christian groups, with the exception of Mormons, Mormons 76%. But the reason we don't include Mormons when we're talking about denominations of Christianity is because it's not a denomination of Christianity. It's something else. 63% of evangelicals read the Bible outside of religious services at least weekly, while 30% of Protestants. So those are mainline Protestants. 29% of Orthodox Christians and 25% of Catholics do. And then you look at the fruit of that evangelicals. White evangelicals are far more likely than any other Christian group to believe that abortion should be illegal. So, for example, 73% of white evangelicals believe that abortion should be illegal in all or most cases races versus white non evangelical Protestants. So the James Talarico 33% believe that black Protestant, 26%, Catholic, only 40%. And then the religiously unaffiliated, the people who love James TALARICO Most, only 13% of them believe that abortion should be illegal in all or most cases. So these are the people that aren't going to get on board with Talarico that he basically is saying is a lost cause. We evangelicals, because we are so staunch in our biblical beliefs and we are so staunch in our views on abortion and gender and immigration and things like that. So I'm not really worried about our crowd. I am worried about those and the white non evangelical Protestant world who might be conservative if it weren't for this deadly dose of toxic empathy that they are imbibing every day, this propaganda that makes them think that loving your neighbor means means opening the border or loving your neighbor means affirming someone's so called gender identity, or that it's loving to women to legalize aborting their children because they might have a hard life otherwise. Those are the people for you and for me that we have to work really hard at channeling their compassion in the right direction and most importantly, helping them see factual truth, political truth, truth and biblical truth. Those are the people that we're really going to be fighting over when it comes to James Talarico. That will be true in the next presidential election too. They believe that there is a portion of evangelicals, a portion of Protestants, a portion of Catholics that are up for grabs. They know a portion of Catholics are up for grabs because it's about 60, 40, 60% of Catholics tend to vote Democrat. But this evangelical stronghold, they are going to do everything they can to break down using religious sounding language to make it seem like the only Christian perspective is the progressive one. He had a lot to say about his beliefs about abortion and things like that on Joe Rogan's podcast. We'll play some of that in a second. Let me pause and tell you about a very fitting sponsor that is Every Life. So in everything we do, whether it's with our vote or our words or actions, but also how we spend our money, we need to be supporting life, doing everything we can to fight for the these voiceless victims of violence, the preborn babies in the womb. And that's why I love sponsors and companies like EveryLife because they actually support those babies. They support their pregnant and they're adopting employees. They support pregnancy centers that are saving those lives. And it's so nice to know that my dollars when I'm buying wipes or when I'm buying diapers aren't going to Planned Parenthood or pro abortion comp politicians because unfortunately their competition, these big diaper companies are progressive and they are donating your dollars to those causes. We don't want that. You want to vote with your dollar. You want to support Every Life this family owned pro life company that has amazing products. We use all Every Life wipes and diapers in our home. Super effective clean materials. It's just a win all around. Go to everylife.com use code ALI10 get 10 off your first order today. Everylife.com code ALI10 10. Here Talo is on Joe Rogan saying that he supports abortion because the story of Jesus being conceived and Mary and Mary becoming pregnant with Jesus somehow supports the pro choice position.
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I say all this in terms of, in context of abortion because before God comes over Mary and, and we have the incarnation, God asks for Mary's consent, which is remarkable. I mean, go back and read this in, in, in Luke, I mean the, the angel comes down and asks Mary if this is something she wants to do. And she says if it is God's will, let it be done, Let it be, let it happen. So to me that is a, an affirmation in one of our most central stories, stories that creation has to be done with consent.
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First of all, his rendering of that story is completely untrue. Gabriel doesn't actually ask for Mary's permission there. Yes, she accepts God's will and she should be honored for that. What an incredible blessing to be chosen as Jesus's earthly mother and to have your womb grow. The Christ child, child, that is amazing. But she simply ascends to what God has already decided and already chosen. She's not actually consenting to that. It's not like a choice that she is making here. She simply is accepting the present reality, what God commands in that moment. And even if it were true that this went the way James Talarico said that it did, that Mary said, yeah, sure, you can do that. Go ahead and conceive Jesus. That isn't a justification for killing a baby after he or she has been conceived. To say that this passage about Jesus becoming flesh, becoming man is a justification for poisoning or dismembering babies inside the womb is so absurdly evil. I would love to debate James Talarico on that passage and on his excuse or justification for abortion. He also makes this very troubling comment about Jesus's crucifixion. He said Jesus was crucified for, quote, confronting the powerful. Here he is.
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The second is crucifixion, right? That's Good Friday, where Jesus, because he confronts the powerful, is executed on a cross, a humiliating death along with other criminals.
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So this is a very common refrain that you see from a lot of these so called progressive Christians that Jesus died because he was a revolutionary, because he fought against Roman power and he fought against empire, because he was progressive and he fought for women and all of these things. Of course that's not true. We actually did an episode about specifically who killed Jesus, who was responsible for that, why did that happen just a couple weeks ago? And we will link that. But here ultimately is the answer which is so different than What James Hallorico said, so why Christ actually died? Number one, God will touch it. Acts 2:23. This Jesus delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God. Definite plan and foreknowledge of God also. Number two. He died because of the fulfillment of prophecy. 1 Corinthians 15, 3, 4. For I delivered to you as a first importance what I also received. That Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scripture. So in accordance with the Scriptures, this is something that was foreordained. Number three. To save sinners and reconcile us to God. Romans 5, 8, 10. But God shows his love for us and that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since therefore we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by by his life. So amazing. Also Talarico's description of the resurrection in this interview as quote, something where, where something beautiful and new rises from the ashes. It downplays the physical reality of Jesus rising from the dead. He uses the resurrection as an allegory. And this is really the prevailing view of people who call themselves progressive Christians. They tend to reject the historicity of the miracles of Jesus, including him defeating death, death days after he was crucified. Like everything else about Jesus, Talarico and others like him see Jesus as a moral example. They see him as an activist. They see him as a revolutionary for progressive causes, like a cheerleader on the sidelines of their political fight. They see him as a mascot. There was a man by James cone and if you've been listening to relatable since 2018, you know who James cone is. We talked a lot about him from 2018 to 2020. He was a 20th century theologian and he popularized something called liberation theology and specifically for him, black liberation theology. But liberation theology is a school of theological thought to which Talrico holds that asserts that the Bible, the gospel, the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, the advancement of God's kingdom, the future hope that we have of a new earth and a new heaven, is all actually about liberating the so called oppressed. So fighting white supremacy on behalf of black people, fighting immigration enforcement on behalf of immigrants, fighting capitalism on behalf of the poor, etc. Cohen wrote this quote, this is what Christ's resurrection means the oppressed are freed for struggle, for battle, in the pursuit of humanity. So like James Salarico, James cone believed that every religion that speaks to the same truth, the truth of liberation was, was a legitimate religion. So for him, the exclusivity of Christ and spiritual salvation from sin was really unimportant. And by the way, I just want to say that Martin Luther King shared these same beliefs about the gospel, about Jesus. He denied the resurrection. And this all reminds me actually of a quote that just came to mind from C.S. lewis in the Screwtape letters. Something that he writes in the voice of Screwtape, which is a demon trying to advise his nephew on how to pull his patient, a human being, away from heaven, is that we want to. Demons want to tempt us to use Christianity as a means to our political ends. And so here's a quote from the Screwtape letters. We do want and want very much to make men treat Christianity as a means, preferably of course, as a means to their own advancement, but failing that, as a means to anything, even to social justice for the enemy who is God, will not be used as a convenience. Of course, that's what Talarico does. That's what James cone did, really. Just seeing God, seeing Jesus as a means to an end, a mascot in their version of politics and Christianity and really the mascot of their form of Christian nationalism, because that's what Talarico represents, is a form of progressive Christian nationalism. He believes that his interpretation of the Bible should inform the law of the land. But if I were to say, well, Psalm 16 tells me very clearly that God knitted together all people in their mother's womb. That tells me a lot about the dignity and the sanctity of unborn life. I don't think that it would be good to legalize killing those babies inside the womb just because we can't see or hear them or just because they're young or dependent, he would say, that's fascist. That's Christian nationalism. Remember, it is only the conservative Christian that is told that we can't bring the fullness of our worldview into the public sphere and into the voting booth. Talarico, of course, believes that that's perfectly fine, believes that that is how we actually should inform our policy. Talarico butchers the gospel. First Corinthians 1:18 says, for the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but who are being saved. It is the power of God. This is why I say that Talo is a left wing atheist version of A good Christian because the things that he says totally make sense to the world. It's not foolishness. To the atheist, everything that Talico says sounds really good. To the person who rejects God. If everything we are saying as Christians makes sense to the non believer, sounds good and persuasive at all times. To the non believer, that's not an indication that we're doing things well. That's an indication that we're going the wrong direction. If you read First Corinthians 1, we see that God flips everything on his on its head, that he chooses what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, what is weak according to worldly standards, to shame the strong. This is a stumbling block. To the Jews we read, it is folly. To the Greeks we read and First Corinthians 1. But it is the power of Christ to those who believe, it is wisdom. To those who believe, we sound like a stench of darkness, death to those who are not believing but the fragrance of God to those who are. But Talarico truly believes that his form of Christianity needs to be enforced through the law. And he basically tells Ezra Klein this in his New York Times interview here in Saudi.
- [40:43]
B
These politicians want a Christian nation unless it means providing health care to the sick or funding food assistance for the hungry or raising the minimum wage for the poor. And so it seems like they want to base our laws on the Bible until they read the words of Jesus, welcome the stranger, liberate the oppressed, put away your sword, sell all your possessions, and give the money to the poor. I mean, I'm not exactly sure a Christian nation is really what these people want.
- [41:15]
A
Okay, so again, the hypocrisy there is just so obvious. He wants a Christian nation, apparently, and he believes that all of those things in the Bible should dictate our laws. But if I have a different interpretation of the Bible, I cannot use that interpretation to inform my belief about public policy. Because if I do, it's fascism or Christian nationalism or theocracy. He just wants his version of theocracy. By the way, Jesus did not say, welcome the foreigner and liberate the oppressed. Those are not things that Jesus said. If you're referring to the passage in Exodus that says you should welcome the sojourner, we have to read that in context where we also read that there is one law for the foreigner and for the Israelite. There weren't these loopholes in which migrants could take part in all of the privileges and the rights and the protection of Israel without obeying the law. They had to be circumcised. They had to follow all laws regarding sexuality and marriage and cleansing and ceremonies and all of that. And so I just think that if we are going to look at the Old or the New Testament to inform what we believe about policy, which I do think that we should when we are exegeting and interpreting Scripture within context and accurately in light of the rest of Scripture, in light of history, and in light, most importantly of the Gospel, which is not something that he does. And he's actually making the case here that commands for generosity for the Christian in Scripture should mean that we support forced wealth redistribution, that we should support the government forcing money out of the hands of some people and giving to others. But that's not what the Bible is talking about when it commands us to care for the poor. We are to be generous and charitable. That means not under compulsion, but in accordance to our free will. 2 Corinthians 9, 7 tells us this. Each one must give as he has decided in his heart. Heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion. For God loves a cheerful giver. We know that taxes are compulsory. Taxes are something that you have to give or else you will go to jail. So taxes don't count as following Christ's command to be generous and kind to others. Yet Talarico says that it's actually the right that has co opted Christianity sought
- [43:32]
B
nine they convinced a lot of our fellow Christians that the most important issues were abortion and gay marriage. Two issues that aren't mentioned in the Bible. Two issues that Jesus never talked about. Jesus in Matthew 25 tells us exactly how you and I and every one of our fellow believers, how we're going to be judged and how we're going to be saved by feeding the hungry, by healing the sick, by welcoming the stranger, stranger. Nothing about going to church, nothing about voting Republican. It was all about how you treat other people.
- [44:09]
A
Okay, Jesus does talk about marriage and sexuality. Matthew 19:4,5. He makes it very obvious what the definition of marriage is. He goes all the way back to creation. Also, of course abortion is talked about. It's actually included in the big ten commandments. Thou shall not murder. Thou shalt not not ritter. And of course we know that Christ doubles down on all of the ten Commandments by saying it's not just about what you do. It's not just about following the letter of the law. It's about following the spirit of the law down to the heart, which by the way, you can't ever do perfectly. And that is why Christ came to pay for your debt and to pay for your sin on the cross and to defeat death three days later. But yes, of course, the Bible speaks very clearly about condemning murder and condemning any sexuality outside of one man and one woman in the context of marriage. And so he's not just lying to you there. So Talarico is attempting to get the mushy middle. He knows he's got all of the Democrats, but he is also attempting to get your friends. He's attempting to get those in your mom group who don't really pay attention to politics and still it until it starts going viral on her Instagram feed. He is appealing to the women that believe in every form of left wing propaganda who might be instinctively or because of their husbands or because of their parents, conservative, but they believe the stories that are presented to them by the New York Times, by the influencers or the celebrities they follow. They're going to like his disposition. They're going to like how gently he speaks. He is going to say things that sound familiar to them and because they sound familiar and sound Christian, they're going to be compelling. They're going to be persuasive. Our responsibility is to continue to push back in truth and gentleness and persuasiveness, using the word of God. So when you see your friend, friend sharing a James Talarico post, when you see them misusing scripture to justify the support of abortion, I want you to be fully equipped to be able to push back against them nicely, kindly, of course, with respect, but completely unapologetically. And if you don't know what to say, just ask a question, give a counter verse, give a counterpoint, send this podcast and say, well, will you listen to this and tell me what you think about it and then we can discuss it later. Especially if you have that comment kind of friendship with them. I really encourage you, like, especially if you're in the state of Texas, I really encourage you to read Toxic Empathy and you can get it from your library. I don't care if you buy it, you can borrow it from a friend, but I just really want you to be equipped with the facts, with the biblical truth to be able to push back against that. I didn't know who James Talarico was when I first started writing Toxic Empathy, but really my entire book is a response to that kind of completely erosion, erroneous form of Christianity which pushes bad and destructive and deadly policies, but also is a kind of theology that truly damns the soul. It damns the soul because it doesn't present to you A true gospel but a false one. So you shouldn't vote for him, but certainly you shouldn't follow his teaching either. All right, a little bit of a history lesson which I think gives us context in just a second. Let me pause tell you about our next sponsor and that is is preborn. So thankful for preborn and how they equip pregnancy centers across the country with the tools that they need to help women make the life affirming choice. They give sonogram equipment, all kinds of resources for these pregnancy centers to be equipped and by you donating to preborn you are helping these pregnancy resource centers save lives. If you donate just $28 you cover the cost of a life saving ultra ultrasound for these women who are so much more likely to choose life when they see that baby, when they hear that beating heart. If you donate $140 that helps save five mothers, but every dollar helps save babies and share hope. Go to preborn.com ally make your donation today to help save a life. That's preborn.com ally. Okay, so the liberation theology and the liberal theology that he espouses, it comes from a lot of places but we can actually look to the history of the Presbyterian Church to see where all of this comes from. So Talarico is actually the fruit of a century long downgrade in mainline Presbyterianism. Presbyterianism is a denomination that traces its roots to the Protestant Reformation. And so you can look to incredible Scottish reformers, reformers like John Knox, you can even look to the reformer John Calvin. But around the turn of the century, so we're talking the 20th century and the Presbyterian Church in the United States of America. So that was the denomination. Some began to push for doctrinal updates to match modern science and culture. So for example, in 1923 the New York Presbytery ordained two Union Seminary grads who denied denied Christ's virgin birth, sparking outrage from other presbyteries. Liberals responded with something called the Auburn Affirmation which claimed to protect PC USA unity and liberty and labor, labeling doctrines like virgin birth, atonement, resurrection as non binding theory. So like secondary or tertiary issues that didn't infringe upon the faithfulness of the gospel. Over 1200 ministers signed that by 1924. And so so this liberalism that we're seeing from people like James Talarico is not new. In the 1970s, debates in the Presbyterian Church in the United states, so that's PCUs increased about biblical authority, the ordination of women, the church's relationship to modern culture, and the conservatives opposed Ordination of women. They believed in biblical inerrancy. And then in 1973 conservatives later left the Presbyterian Church of the United States, which would later merge with pcusa, that other liberal denomination, that is the denomination of Talo. And then the PCUSA has become more and more progressive over time. Highlighted and the views that you've seen from Talarico, they affirm the full inclusion of LGBTQ plus people they have since the 2010. Also emphasizes advocacy for the quote unquote marginalized groups, so called racial justice, immigration reform, opposition to war, economic equity. These are all euphemisms for communism, basically. The PC USA is now the largest Presbyterian denomination in the US So it's much bigger than the PCA which includes churches that are faithful to scripture, but it's in decline. The denomination had about 2.7 million members in 1994, but only about 1 million million in 2024. So that's a huge decline. And in contrast, the PCA, which is the second largest U S. Presbyterian denomination, has seen robust growth, outpacing population increases, up 1.84% in 2024. And so what's really interesting is that if you look at all of the mainline Protestant, Protestant denominations that espouse the kind of progressive beliefs that James Talarico has, they are all into class decline. People are realizing that if you're just going to hear from church, all of the same things that you're hearing from social media and your favorite liberal activist, there is no real reason to go to church. You can get community from your friends, you can go to brunch instead of taking communion, you can basically just scroll through TikTok and you can hear what's equivalent to a liberal sermon every day without ever having to leave your house. House. And so if you're not getting the truth of the gospel, if you're not getting a faithful exegesis of God's word, if you're not getting true accountability and confession of sin that is supposed to occur in the body of Christ and there's no point in going to church. That's why these mainline denominations are declining. What's interesting is that the popularity and culture of so called liberal Christianity is increasing. And that is because again, in James Talarico's form of Christianity is the atheist favorite form of Christianity. It is Satan's favorite form of Christianity. Remember, Ephesians 2 tells us that Satan is the prince of the power of the air, the, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience among whom we all once walked. In the passions of our flesh. And so that is what is going on. Of course, the culture, the sons of disobedience, the prince of the power of the air, want the popularization of the this kind of Christianity because it's not Christianity, because it's not a belief in Christ, it's not a belief in the gospel and it's sending people to hell. And so again, we as Christians, we've got the responsibility to push back against this with everything we can. Both because the policies end in destruction for people's bodies. It ends in economic destruction, it ends in unrest, it ends in chaos, it ends in borderlessness, which is a form of chaos. It is anti corrupt Christ, anti Bible, anti order, anti loving our neighbor in every single way. It just sounds palatable and that's not enough. It just feels good and that's not enough. But again, also because it is a false gospel that if people believe it will lead them to hell and we have to love our neighbor more than allowing them to believe. James Talarika okay, so this is a spiritual battle that we're in far more than it is a political battle. The political battle is up here. What we see, the spiritual battle is what we don't see. But we as Christians who have been given this insight and this vision by the Holy Spirit to see the spiritual battle that's waging, as Ephesians 6 tells us, we have a responsibility to speak up against this. Even if that means you lose friends, even if that means people unfollow you, even if that makes you unpopular, even if you get pushback, even if that divides. Truth divides. Truth divides. And this is not just about politics. This is about what is true, what is eternally true, not just politically true. All right, we're going to shift gears just a little bit. We've got a new segment for you. And I know that we're, we're going to still try to finish under an hour, maybe right over an hour. But the reason that we're going to shift gears into the this light hearted segment for today is because we have an incredible short little video for you. So I had a vision a couple weeks ago after, after Hillary Clinton wrote the hit piece on yours truly in the Atlantic. And she said that some of my work has to do with politics and theology, I guess, but she said the rest of it is just lifestyle pitter patter. I still to this day have no idea what she's talking about because if you follow me, you know that I don't really talk about any of that. I mean, I talk about motherhood sometimes we do talk about bread and food and things like that. I guess that's what lifestyle pitter patter is. And I said I want to see Hillary Clinton and me cooking and baking together for a lifestyle pitter patter segment. So that's what we're about to do. But before we get into it, before we play you that just amazing video of your girl Hillary Clinton and me doing lifestyle pitter patter things together, I got to tell you about our last sponsor. That's my Patriot supply. This is America's number one preparedness company with over 3 million million satisfied customers right now. When you go to preparewithally.com their best selling four week emergency food supply comes with an additional week of food for free. This is the best long term storable food that you can find. You're getting at least 2, 000 calories a day, real meals made with real ingredients, no artificial flavors or colors, and the shelf life is measured in decades. You don't want to be in a situation where you need an emergency food supply and you don't have it. So, so much better to be safe than sorry. This is a great way to prepare for your for an emergency, for your family, to protect your family, to provide for your family. Go to preparewithally.com to get your free week of emergency food today. Preparewithally.com. Welcome to our new branded segment Lifestyle Pitter Pattern. Maybe one day I can actually have Hillary C.L. clinton on the Secretary of State to, I don't know, do a cooking segment or something like that. I feel like we would have a lot to talk about, but today, unfortunately she's not here. And so we're going to talk about another form of lifestyle pitter patter, and that is dating. I'm very concerned about not only Gen Z, but also millennial Christian women and men who seem to be unable to find their match. Part of that is because of a mismatch in values between Gen Z men and women on dating and kids. The interesting thing this is, according to Vox, is that Gen Z men want kids and Gen Z women have some questions. Vox journalist Anna north found that young men across the political spectrum really want to be dads more than you'd expect. A 2023 Pew poll showed that 57% of men aged 18 to 30 before said they want children someday, compared to only 45% of women, which is a pretty big gap that surprised researchers. This journalist noted that male Trump voters actually rated having children as number one among life priorities, while none of the women, no matter how they voted, ranked it that high. Women, what is going on? Gen Z? Men often see fatherhood as a capstone or just a really important part of a full life, this article says. On the other hand, many young women express hesitancy because it's never been more costly. Costly for women to have a child. I just don't think that's true. Never been more costly, not even in the Great Depression. It wasn't more costly then, of course. I think it's just because women have more career opportunities than they have before. And so if you're calculating it that way that you're missing out on an amount of income because of a marketing career that you could have, then you could say, okay, well, I'm losing out on a million dollars or something. And that was more than someone was losing, closing out and the Great Depression. But it certainly doesn't cost more to have a child if you are just having a child and focusing on having a child than it used to. And it certainly doesn't cost more for our bodies or for our health. So women worry that their partners are not going to pull their weight, since even with progress, childcare is not 50 50. The truth is, is that childcare women is not going to be 50 50, because you are the mother and your child wants you. Your child needs you more, especially in those early years, than the dad is needed now. I think a lot of us millennials have been extremely blessed with present dads and involved dads. Certainly that is different than generations past when there were like baby boomer men who had never changed a diaper, who had never woken up in the middle of the night. And that dynamic, I think, for most millennial women has shifted. And so you certainly want to find a male man. Women who want to step up, who want to step in, who want to be involved, who honor you and want you to rest and want to pitch in as much as they can, who want to use their strength to protect you and to provide for you and to be there with your child, who loves being a father, who you know will be compassionate when you're going through birth and postpartum and all of those things for sure. But don't go into marriage thinking it's going to be this exact 50, 50 thing, because there are going to be periods of time in your marriage where it's a hundred percent you and your husband, for whatever reason he's studying for the LSAT or he's going through a really hard time at work, he's not going to be as involved as you want him to be. There are going to be times because you're postpartum, you're going through something that your husband is basically doing 100% of everything and you're not able to do other things. So don't look for someone who's going to do 50, 50. Look for someone who's willing to do 100, 0 or 0, 100 in either direction and who loves you and cherishes you and wants to lead and to protect you in that way. And no one is perfect and no marriage is perfect and you learn so many things along the way. But this idea that marriage is some kind of contract where you agree to a perfect 50, 50%, that's just not life. And if you see marriage not as something just like a goal to attain, but something that God has called us to as Christians, something that yes, requires sacrifice but because of that sanctifies us and makes us back better, it also is a lot of fun and also provides you with a lot of love and camaraderie. Then that's better than seeing it as what it seems like a lot of Gen Z women see it as is some kind of transaction. And also just seeing kids in the same way is like something that exists to fulfill you rather than just people made in the image of God. That yes, will make you better, but are also just people that you can channel your love into. It's really hard to explain if you don't have kids just how much joy and love your children bring you and they just make it you a better person. Not that people without kids aren't good people, but it just does. It just makes you more responsible, it makes you wiser, it makes you smarter, it makes you a better manager, it makes you more compassionate, it makes you more self controlled, it makes you more patient because you realize that so much of parenting actually requires self discipline on your part. Now here's just like one thing that I would say. I know that we've got disparate values when it comes to men and women and men can get lots of advice, but not from me. And that's why I target a lot of my advice towards women. But for the Christian women out there especially who are like, I can't find a man and I can't find a guy that I want to marry, this is what I ask all of my single friends, like, where are you working out? Where are you going on the weekends? Where are you going on the evenings? What church are you going to? Like, how involved are you in your church. And yes, like, God can do anything through anyone and any place place. But you're probably not going to find your husband at Pure Bar. Like, he's probably not at Pilates. He might not be at hot yoga. Like, you might just need to go where the Christian men are. You might need to change churches if you're not attracted to a guy in skinny jeans and you're going to a church where there's only hipsters, unless it is the only solid church in the area, because that's most important, you might want to consider changing churches. Not to say there's anything inherently wrong with skinny jeans, objectively, necessarily. I'm just saying put yourself in a position where you are around Christian men that you find attractive. And I've encouraged a lot of women to try to find some sort of like Christian CrossFit gem. That's where I met my husband. It worked out very well. We had had that shared hobby and shared values right away. And so that was a great foundation for us. But that is my piece of advice to you women. First of all, change how you think about marriage. Change how you think about children. Nothing in your career is going to give you fulfillment like those things. And then also, like, go where the Christian men are. Can I tell a story really fast of my friend who went to a golf store the other day to see if there would be a guy there who would come up and talk to her and ask her on a date? It literally worked. She went to a golf store, walked around and a guy came up to her, started talking to her and they went on a couple dates. So I'm just saying maybe stroll the aisles of Home Depot or Golf Galaxy or somewhere where, you know, the men are academy. I don't know where guys go, honestly. Go somewhere where the men are and just, I don't know, see what happens. So that's my lifestyle pitter patter for today. We will be back here on Wednesday.