← Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Loading summary
Transcript9 lines
- [00:01]
A
Have Muslims actually been super sweet to Christians throughout history? That is the claim that Tucker Carlson's latest guest is making on his show. We're going to fact check that and see if his claims are actually true. Also, a couple who used IVF gave birth to a baby that is not actually theirs. This is not a rare situation. This has actually happened many times over the past several years because of our unregulated fertility industry in the United States. So we'll look at this story and so many more. Then we've got some voicemails on today's episode of Relatable. It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranch Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com use code ALI at checkout. That's goodranchers.com code ALI. Hey guys. Welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful day, a wonderful week so far. God's eternal plan of redemption. Last time I checked, which was this morning, it's going off without a hitch. And I don't have to turn on the news. I don't have to look on social media to figure that out. I don't have to look out there for a sign. Because God's word lays it out really plainly what's going to happen. Jesus wins in the end. And all of this seeming hopelessness and this despair and this distress and the chaos and the confusion, electing communists in the state of New York that want to destroy America, the jihad that seems to be running amok everywhere in Western civilization, that's all gonna come to an end as well as every election, every political endeavor, every single act of selfish ambition at the expense of the vulnerable. All of that will end. And Jesus will rule in perfect peace forever and ever. And we will have eternal joy. There will be no more sadness. There will be no more sickness. There will be no more sin, no more abortion, no more murder, no more violence, no more, no more war, no more confusion, no more doctrinal disputes. We will be with him in perfect peace as the body of Christ, worshiping Jesus forever and ever. And that is our hope. Yes, we have liberation from sin in this life. We have patience and perseverance through trials, through the power of the Holy Spirit. In this life, we have community with the body of believers. We have so many sources of joy and the gifts of common grace that everyone else has that we get to enjoy the beauty of creation and we get to look forward to that perfect paradise where we're in perfect communion with Christ forever and ever. If you wanna know how to get there or how to know absolutely for sure, 10 outta 10, that that's something that's going to happen for you after you die or when Jesus comes back. There's not some mystery, secret prayer. There's not something that you have to do to clean yourself off or to make yourself good enough for, for God's love and acceptance. There's actually nothing you can do. You're a sinner, I'm a sinner, we're too sinful for a holy God. Even if you've just fibbed once or if you've committed a long list of moral atrocities. We are separated from God. And so that's why we needed a perfect sacrifice for sin, because all sin requires sacrifice. And God sent that because he loves us so much in the form of his only son, Jesus, who died on the cross, a death that he didn't deserve to die on our behalf, paying for our sins, so that those who by grace, through faith, believe in him for salvation will have eternal life. And so we're reconciled to God, we become a friend of God. We have boldness and access with confidence to the throne of God. And Jesus is the one that is advocating for us. And his spotless record becomes ours. God's eternal plan of redemption through Jesus is going off without a hitch. He is seeking and saving the lost. There's nothing that surprises him. And God uses the mostly unseen and unsung faithfulness of believers to accomplish his will. You're not always going to see that on social media, on Instagram, on TikTok, on X. You're not going to see that as a headline in the news. So much of what God does seems mysterious or seems unknown to the rest of the world, but we get to participate in it. And it's not always going to go viral or make a headline. And yet it makes a splash in eternity. Nothing is meaningless in the life of the believer because we are all part of that eternal plan of redemption. Amen. So I like to start out my Mondays with that, reminding myself of that, reminding you of that, because it's really, really good news. And y', all, sometimes we need some good news, especially in the craziness that is going on in the world. And I'm not just talking about all of the wars and all the violence and all of the scary things. Those of us who are raising kids in this world, we want to make them so brave and so strong and so wise and so discern, to be able to not just determine what's the difference between right and wrong. That's A big one. But what's the difference between good and best? What's the difference between something that sounds good and is actually good and godly and biblical, and when we have sources that we have trusted for a long time, when we have people that we have relied on for wisdom and insight to peer into the craziness of politics and culture and tell us what is true, suddenly say things or agree with things, assent to things that are insane, it can be very disorienting and disconcerting. We've talked a lot, I've talked on this show and on other people's show about this strange shift that is going on, the soft pedaling of Islam that is happening on the right, the kind of, I, I don't know how else to say it except for propagandizing of Islam, the downplaying of Christian persecution in Muslim countries, the propping up of Islam in an effort to say that Christianity and Islam are essentially the same that were very similar. We talked a few weeks ago about the Tucker Carlson Network put out a post saying, you know, Muslims, they love Jesus, they revere Jesus, they regard Jesus as a prophet, and they didn't say anything about what Jewish people believe about Jesus. But when I've seen other people bring that up, it's typically to try to contrast what Jewish people in the Talmud says about Jesus. And at the time we talked about that and we made plain, look, it doesn't matter if you think Jesus was a prophet, if you think Jesus was a good guy, if you think Jesus was a bad guy, if you think Jesus is somewhere boiling in hell, or if you think Jesus was just a mortal man who was killed by the Roman Empire because of threatening Roman power. All of those things are wrong. And they're equally wrong. If you don't believe John 14:6 that Jesus is the way, the truth, the life, that no one comes to the Father except through him. If you don't believe John 3:16 that God sent his only son, that whoever believes in him will not perish and have everlasting life, you are equally wrong and that belief will send you to the same place. So I see no need to like, look at the theology of all of these non Christian religions and say, oh, who is closest to Christianity? That's not the game that we're called to play. We are called to make disciples of all nations. That's all nations in the Middle East. That includes Israel, that includes Saudi Arabia, that includes Qatar, that includes every single nation on earth. Christians are called to preach the gospel. And there is one Gospel, there's not another one. So what exactly is going on? It's certainly not a Christian theological play that is happening to try to conflate Islam with Christianity. And in fact it is to turn a blind eye to what is happening in these African countries, in these Middle Eastern countries, against Christians at the hands of a Muslim majority. Which by the way, has been characteristic of the relationship between Christianity and Islam throughout history. But now we're trying to rewrite history. And once again we see this on Tucker Carlson's show. He has a guest former pastor whose name is J.D. hall, and he has decided to give us a new history lesson about what it was actually like for Christians in the ancient Ottoman Empire. And here's what he's got to say. Salt 1.
- [08:18]
B
The Ottomans didn't charge churches tax. And so when the Ottomans were in control of the promised land for 400 years in the millet system, they didn't charge churches tax. Israel started just a few years ago and their Muslim rulers didn't do that during the Ottoman period. Okay, so the answer is no. The Muslim rulers didn't tax churches during the Ottoman period. They were very kind to Christians.
- [08:49]
A
We'll fact check that in just a second, y'. All. If you are tired of the chaos and the noise and you're like, I could use a respite from all of that and I, I just need a refreshment. I need a, I need a break. I need some community to be with some like minded people. Tell me what is true. Okay, we're not just talking about what is true politically. Tell me what is true theologically. Eternally. Tell me what is true about the soul, about the world, about the future. Help me discern right from wrong. You gotta come to share the arrows. Okay? This is a women's only conference, y'. All and that's what it's about. It is about biblical truth. This is a gospel centered, theologically rich, no fluff, worship filled Christian women's conference. As far as I know, it's one of its kind and I have been so blessed to be a part of this and watch this grow and, and lead this for the past few years with my husband and it's just been such a wonderful blessing. I want you to be a part of it. October 10th Dallas, Texas ShareThe Arrows.com we will have Rosaria Butterfield, Elisa Childers, Costi Hin, Shane and Shane and many more. It's going to be so wonderful, y'. All, I cannot wait. Get your tickets. We are expecting to sell out in the next couple of months ago to sheer the arrows.com this year share the Arrows is brought to you by our friends at Range leather. Go to sharethe arrows.com before we get back into it, let me go ahead and tell you about my first sponsor for the day. It's also one of my favorite companies ever because I use their products every day. In fact, I am wearing their blush right now. Adal Natural Cosmetics has amazing natural cosmetics that I just love. They're so good for your skin, so moisturizing. I've got their pink coral blush on as we speak and I especially love it in the summer. Really all year long I was going to say cuz my skin can be dry but my skin can also be dry in the winter time and all of their stuff is so moisturizing. It's also why I use their essential cleanser every day. It's an oil based cleanser, a cleanser so the texture you'll have to get a little bit used to. But it does such a good job of cleaning my skin but also helping my skin feel refreshed, feel renewed, feel moisturized and especially those of us in our 30s, maybe you're starting to notice those fine lines. Totally fine. We just want to make sure that our skin is optimized, that it is as moisturized as possible and and Adele is the holistic way to do that. Plus it is unapologetically family centered Jesus First Pro life in everything they do, even in their packaging. So this is the cosmetic skincare company that you want to support. Go to Adele natural cosmetics.com use code ALLY. You'll get 25% off your first purchase and you will become a raving fan. Adele natural cosmetics.com code Ali. So this guest, J.D. hall, does exactly this song and dance of saying, well, actually Islam throughout history was pretty friendly to Christians. Contrasting this to how Jewish people throughout history has treated Christianity, he talks about the Ottoman Empire. You heard him make the claim that Muslim rulers didn't tax churches during the Ottoman period. They were very kind to Christians. So let's break this down first. The Ottoman Empire lasted from about 1300 to 1922. It was an Islamic empire founded by Turkish rulers that grew to control much of Southeast Europe, the Middle East, North Africa, Anatolia. And Christians occupied the space. So did Jewish people. And so is it true that how the Muslim majority treated these religious minorities, especially Christians, was one of kindness and that the pilgrims were protected as they were making their way through this part or through the empire? Now let me pause and tell you that my knowledge of this largely comes from an incredible scholar, an incredible historian named Raymond Ibrahim. We've had him on the show before. He wrote a book. He's written several books, but one of his books, I think the best book on this is the Sword and the Scimitar. And I really encourage you to read that book. Go back, listen to, watch that episode. He's not coming from necessarily a theological perspective or an ideological perspective. He's just coming from a historical and scholarly perspective of the relationship between Christianity and Islam throughout history. And he paints the accurate picture of what it has looked like and the conflict and the carnage that has been mostly large and completely originated by the Muslims who wanted to conquer Christians. So specifically about this claim about the taxes, that Christians weren't charged taxes, well, it's misleading. Churches weren't specifically taxed, but Christians were subject to special taxes. They weren't just safe because the Muslims wanted to protect the Christians. In the ancient Ottoman Empire, they had to pay an extra tax called the jizya that was imposed on non, non Muslims. That was the only way to guarantee any kind of protection. It's true that the Ottomans allowed religious communities to govern many of their own affairs. This is true of many places at the time. But non Muslims remained second class subjects. In addition to paying extra taxes, they faced restrictions on churches, on evangelism, legal rights, dress, bearing arms. The same is true today, but even more so in most of these Muslim countries. This gas JD hall says that Muslims were very kind to Christians, but of course, that part is just not true. The Islamic Ottoman Empire persecuted Christians for centuries, killed them, enslaved them for centuries. So let me give you an example of this. Every Christian has heard of Constantinople. Most people, Christian or not, have heard of Constantinople. So the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople marked the end of the Byzantine Empire. It transformed this city, which was Christianity's most significant city at the time, or at least one of them, into the capital of an Islamic state. So for more than a thousand years, Constantinople had served as the center of Eastern Orthodox Christianity. It was named after Constantine the Great, the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity. And previously, the Byzantine successfully defeated the Arab siege of Constantinople in 718 A.D. preserving early Christianity against a Muslim onslaught. But then Constantinople fell and fell 1453. And this was this huge watershed moment in history and it signaled the collapse of the last remnant of the Roman Empire. So when the city's defenses gave way, thousands of civilians crowded into the Hagia Sophia, the city's largest church, seeking safety. And the Ottoman troops led by Sultan Mehmed II forced their way inside. And the refuge became the scene of looting, enslavement, widespread abuse, including, including mass rape. Eyewitnesses. We have eyewitness testimony from this. When Constantinople, this Christian city, fell. And here's one. One eyewitness by account of the taking of Constantinople in 1453 by Thomas the Eparch. Okay. Then he, Sultan Mehmed II, seized one of the Grand Duke's daughters, who was quite beautiful, and made her lie on the great altar of the Hagia Sophia with a crucifix under her head and then raped her. Then the most brutish of the Turks seized the finest noblewomen, virgins and nuns of the city and violated them in the presence of the Greeks and in the sacrilege of Christianity. Wow. Things haven't changed in centuries. This is the same thing that happens to Christians today in very similar manners, certainly in places like Nigeria and Uganda. It is not just the pillaging of Christian women. It is the purpose of purposeful blasphemy against the Christian God. In all, about 4,000 Christians were slaughtered by the Ottomans during the fall of Constantinople. And then on top of that, because it wasn't just that day or that period, 50,000 Christians were sold into slavery, and many of the women were made part of the Sultan's harem. The Hagia Sophia was converted into a mosque. So from the 14th to the 17th centuries, Ottoman officials enslaved Christian boys as young as 6, 7, under a known policy, a policy known as the child levy. These children were taken to Istanbul, forcibly converted to Islam, and made soldiers or palace administrators. In total, an estimated 500,000 to 1 million Christian boys were enslaved under this system. So Christian persecution by the Ottoman Empire continued throughout the centuries, culminating in the Arminian Genocide. You've probably heard of this. You might not realize that this happened only a little over a hundred years ago. This was the largest Christian genocide in history. It was at the hands of powerful Muslims. From 1915 to 1916, the Ottoman Empire killed an estimated 600,000 to 1.2 million Armenian Christians. So no, this claim that the Ottomans were very kind to Christians is just not true. Were there maybe individual Muslims who were nice to Christians where there may be periods of time where there was some. Some kind of respite of intense enslavement and persecution. That is possibly true, but even the claim, the example, the one example that he gives of the kindness of the Ottoman Empire to Christians isn't even true. That Christians were protected and that they weren't charged taxes. They were charged the special tax that all non Muslims were charged. That is a form of persecution. He also has another evidentiary example, apparently of the ancient Muslims being kind to Christians. He claims that it was the Muslims who actually cared for all of the Christian holy sites. Here's that too.
- [18:35]
B
They took care of our holy sites. They had rebuilt. Islamic authorities rebuilt the Church of the Sepulcher three different times over the centuries. They had a law protecting Christian pilgrims on their journey. Like nobody messed with the the Ottoman Turks. The Muslim rulers of the Holy Land
- [18:56]
A
rebuilt the church, the Holy Sepulcher, three times.
- [18:58]
B
Three times, yeah. Either completely rebuilt it or a major renovation. One time it caught on fire and they redid the roof. But if you've seen the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, you can imagine what it took.
- [19:11]
A
All right, is this actually true? We looked into it. In 1009, a Muslim Egyptian caliph ordered the destruction of the Church of the Holy City, Polker, and the church was again vandalized by Muslims during the siege of Jerusalem in 1244, during a wider crackdown on Christian and Jewish places of worship under Ottoman rule, Church renovations were usually performed and paid for by Christian communities. So it was rebuilt under the empire, but not, as far as we can tell, by the Ottomans. In 1555, for example, Franciscan friars renovated the church with the 1808 fire, which hall references in the clip. The rebuilding was funded by the Greek Orthodox and Armenian communities. You know, the Armenian community that about 100 years after this was slaughtered en masse by the Ottoman Muslims. So it was actually rebuilt by the Christian communities, not by Ottoman authorities. Now, you could say that the Ottoman authorities allowed this to happen. And okay, that would be a point to make. But the reason he doesn't make that point is because it doesn't prove his premise and his theory that or his argument that Muslims were so unendingly kind to Christians. And then in 1868, the dome was restored through cooperation between Greek Orthodox, Catholic and Ottoman authorities. Ottoman approval was necessary because the Empire tightly regulated changes to the church and even minor renovations required Ottoman authorization. Alright, so you could say that the authorization was there. That would be an argument to make. Not as strong, but it's completely inaccurate. Again, I would say this person. I don't know the intentions of J.D. hall's heart, but I see this a lot. You see this with pastors, you see this with anyone with a platform. They know that the majority of people listen to things lazily. You're listening to things for entertainment. You're listening to things because maybe they're subversive or they're Transgressive. And you think, oh, this is so different than I've ever heard before, so it must be true. And I get that. I mean, post Covid, I think a lot of people are more open to alternate theories of history and politics, and I think some of that is good. We shouldn't just assume that all of our formal authorities and institutions have this monopoly on truth. I don't think it's wrong to question the popular rendering of a historical event or, or certainly a news headline or something that's going on. Like Covid, I think that's fine. But like, we do have to think. We also just can't take his word for it. Also, don't take my word for it. You should read for yourself a lot of the different sources as objectively as you possibly can. Ask the questions. Does this make sense? Does this align with what I see in here? We do have the hard work of very smart men throughout history who have recorded these events and who have collected eyewitness accounts like the Armenian genocide, the fall of Constantinople, the enslavery of Christians throughout Muslim history. Those aren't just theories. Those aren't things that are made up. It doesn't surprise me at all that you have people on, you know, what are typically called the woke. Right. Which took me a long time to come around to that. And the left kind of in a horseshoe, trying to make it seem like Islam is okay. It's just how things go. The crazier things get, the more of those crazies who used to be on polar opposite sides of things, the more they look more similar. I think it's also worth noting who this guest is, who is J.D. hall. Is he a historian like Raymond Ibrahim and some of the other people that have written about the relationship between Islam and Christianity. So we'll take a look at that because I think it's interesting and pertinent in just a second. But let me take a quick pause, tell you about our next sponsor for the day first, and that is We Heart Nutrition. Love We Heart Nutrition. This is where I get all my supplements. Omega 3s, iron prenatals, all that good stuff. This is my first pregnancy using We Heart Nutrition, and I feel really good. First trimester was rough, just with the nausea and, you know, subsequent pregnancy, sometimes you can just feel worse every time. But second trimester, I'm feeling really good and I was able to adjust my iron dosage a little bit. A lot of pregnant women deal with anemia even more so when they're pregnant. That includes me. So I had to increase that. My doctor helped me figure out what my levels needed to be. But I love that I can do that so easily. With WE Heart nutrition, I don't need to change supplements because this is the highest quality that you can possibly get. Not just with iron, but with your magnesium, with your folate, with all of the different ingredients that they have in all of their different supplements. You might need to change the dosage depending on what your blood work tells you. But you can rest assured that your body is really absorbing these nutrients because every single ingredient comes in the most bioavailable form. They're the real deal. Jacob and Christian. They are strong Christians and they created this company to glorify God, to help pregnancy centers, which is what they do with every sale and to create these awesome products that really help women couldn't sing their praises more. Go to weheartnutrition.com use code ALI@ checkout. You can build your box and create the right box of supplements for you and you can use my code ally for an extra 20% off. That is we heartnutrition.com code Ali. So J.D. hall used to write for or created the website Pulpit and Pen, which later became Protestia. And we I, I very rarely, unless it is absolutely necessary, have used Protestia as a source because it's such a mixed bag. Sometimes there will be something that's like oh, that is actually interesting report reporting that I haven't ever seen someone collect and then other, other times it's just a gossip rag and it's not fact checked and it is just completely maligning of someone simply I don't even know why. I, I couldn't even tell you why. And so they're just not reliable. They're not reliable. Same with Pulpit and Pen. He served for many years as lead pastor of Fellowship Baptist church in Sydney, Montana, but he has stepped down. In 2022, hall was charged with the DUI while carrying a weapon. Subsequent reports indicate his impairment was linked not to alcohol but to Xanax abuse. Officers reportedly discovered a concealed handgun during the traffic stop. Then following his dui, hall was removed as lead pastor, Fellowship Baptist church in Sydney, Montana in 2022amid allegations of drug abuse, domestic violence and mis misuse of church funds. He was also removed from leadership roles at Protestia, which I will give credit to Protestia for doing that and, and making the making the right move there. Regarding the church funds allegations, hall entered a no contest plea in 2024 and agreed to pay restitution as part of a Deferred sentencing agreement. The charges were later dismissed after he completed the terms of the agreement. So this is not to say that this person is beyond redemption at all. This is not to say that everything this person says is untrue simply because they have a storied past. But when it comes to these very recent allegations like the misuse of church funds that he admitted to or he entered a no contest plea for, I do think it's fair to factor that in to our calculations of this person's intention, integrity and trustworthiness. Tucker Carlson called him a theologian who, who is very, who writes very clearly about issues of theology. Not really sure that that's true. When you look at the James 3:1 qualification for pastors, he doesn't fall into that. And so I think it's fair to question someone's discernment and their biblical integrity if they were not willing to align with what scripture actually says. James 3:1. Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. 1st Timothy 3:2. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober minded, self controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach. And look, this is not to say, wow, he's so much worse than everyone else. Not at all. Satan loves when pastors fall. And so there's a lot of temptation, there's a lot of loneliness and isolation that comes with the pastoral role. But that's also not to just cover up sins and say, oh yeah, that's fine, we should platform this person and he should be our trusted source of theology and Christian history. Both can be true. You're not saying that you judge this person any more than you, or saying that he is beyond forgiveness or beyond salvation or anything like, like that. And then also at the same time, use some discernment and say, okay, has his character, has his recent character proven to be one of trustworthiness and integrity where I should listen to him on major matters of theology and major matters of Christian history? I think that's like a pretty easy, easy answer here. So why is this going on, especially on Tucker Carlson's show? This just seems to happen a lot. You know, I don't know what's going on in his head or his guest head. And I'm not going to guess like what's going on in their hearts, but I will just say, like, in general, in general, I will tell you what I think about why there are some people on the right that are like, actually, you know, it's not Islam. They're not that bad. They don't talk about what's going on in Nigeria. They don't talk about what's going on. And you. They don't talk about what is going on in almost every single Muslim majority. When it comes to the nightmare of living as a Christian in these places. And I say nightmare, not to take away the hope and the joy that they have in Christ, because these Christians persecuted there absolutely have that. But when it comes to the physical torment of seeing your children kidnapped and enslaved and harmed like that is a nightmare that most of us living here in America by the grace of God have not, not been, have not had to endure. I can't even imagine. I have three episodes at least recently that we've done specifically on the persecution that is happening in these countries at the hands of these Muslim terrorists. The Christian mothers who have watched their babies beheaded and kidnapped and sold into slavery. This is not something that just happened in the Ottoman Empire hundreds of years ago. This is something that is happening to day at the hands of Muslims, to our brothers and sisters in Christ. So why in the world, if the important thing to you is the preservation of the church and the preservation of Christian history and Christian artifacts and the preservation of the integrity of Christianity, why in the world would you even ostensibly be linking arms with these powers? You would be calling this out and say, you know, it's really scary that we actually have Muslim politicians here who are talking about the undermining of and destruction of the United States. And they're not only Muslim politicians, it's these far left progressives of all different religious stripes. But you would think that there would be more people in the right warning about that. It's something that the right has been doing for a very long time. This very recent about face. Let me tell you what's behind it. It's got to do with Israel, okay? It has to do with Israel. It has to do with, I believe, people who have Israel derangement syndrome, okay? And they see Israel in everything. They see the Jews behind everything. I heard Jeremy Borein word it as like, the Jews are always waiting in the wings of people's imaginations when they're looking for a scapegoat, when they're looking for someone to blame. And that's like a paraphrasing of something that, that Jeremy said. But it really stuck with me. Waiting in the wings of people's imaginations when people are looking for a scapegoat. That's a pretty incredible way to word it, the reality is, you know, I get messages about this all the time. Israel's doing this, Israel's doing that. They're so terrible. I have no reason whatsoever to agree with all of Israel's policies or to say rah, rah, yes, Israel is like the, the current, modern day Israel is the center of the impending apocalypse. Like, I'm not a dispensationalist. I don't have the same theological view of Israel as a lot of Baptists do. I have a much more pragmatic view of why they are a greater ally in the region than other countries there. And I also just have this logical problem with people trying to turn a blind eye to what is happening against Christians at the hands of Islam in order to direct all of our ire towards the Jews and towards Israel. It's just strange. There is not a single person that is soft pedaling Islam, that is not trying to get you to blame Israel and the Jews for all of your problems and all of America's problems, okay? This is not an isolated thing. It has to do with saying, basically implying that Christians and Muslims should partner up and we should set our sights against the Jews that are the real problem, the real source of violence, the real source of destabilization. And this is not a new thing that's been happening. This is not a new effort. Like, this is the scapegoating of the Jews has happened for a very, very long time throughout history, okay? There's something spiritual about it. There's something very, very dark going on there. And look, I, I'm not here to make anyone happy because I believe, as I said earlier in Matthew 28, when Jesus calls the US to make disciples of all nations, that includes Israel. There are some people, not all, but there are some super pro Israel Christians who believe that you don't really need to share the gospel with Jewish people, that God has almost like a separate plan for them one day. I'm not one of those people, okay? I want every Jewish person, every Muslim person, every agnostic person, every single person of a different belief to, to bow to Jesus. That's what I want. Through the sharing of the gospel, through the power of the Holy Spirit. I want every single person to become a Christian and to know the power of Christ and to believe in his sacrifice and his resurrection, okay? So like, you can't pin me as some crazy dispensationalist, pro Israel propagandist. I know people like to do that, but you have no foot to stand on because I have never articulated that view whatsoever. I have a pragmatic view. I have a lot logical view. I have a, huh? What the heck is going on? That suddenly parts of the writer acting like Islam is okay, it's got to do with the Jews. That's what's going on. Okay. It's spiritual. It's strange. I don't even know if I can put words into why exactly all of this is happening right now. I do find it very strange that after this absolutely horrifying attack on Israel October 7, 2023, that's when people's compassion started to really fade for the victims of that attack and for like Israel's right to defend itself. It's just weird. I don't know. All I can say is that it's not new, it is spiritual. I don't really know the why. Don't really know exactly what's going on. But like I see it as a psy up, I see it as a psyop and I'm not going to fall for it. It's just strange. All right, we gotta switch to a different subject. Another controversial subject. Don't you love when we talk about Israel and IVF all in the same episode? It just, you know, we don't, we don't, we don't talk about the easy stuff. Very much unrelatable. We talk about the stuff that a lot of people don't want to talk about, but I think is really important. Has an effect, all of these things. Everything we talk about has an effect on the most vulnerable first. And that includes in vitro fertilization and the consequences of that. There's a story that just came out or it's actually been talked about for a while, but the New York Times just reported on it. The story of this family who had a mix up with their baby. They were given an embryo. The mother was transferred or the embryo was transferred to her, implanted in her. And the baby very obviously is not theirs because both of the parents are a Caucasian and this sweet little beautiful baby looks to be black. And so now there has been this custody battle over it. So we're going to look into the ethics of this and the potential consequences of going from what is natural to what is possible using technology, but without thinking about what is actually biblical and good. Let me pause. Let me tell you about our next sponsor. First, its alliance defending freedom. 250 years, America has been a bastion of freedom in so many ways. But that's not something that we can take for granted. That the Constitution has not been preserved just by us saying yay, we have a Constitution and hoping for the best and just assuming that all of the people in charge honored the Constitution. The Constitution has been fought for. The Constitution was fought for many years ago with the blood of our American ancestors and it is still fought today in the courtroom through the legal system. And it is fought for by America loving, God loving lawyers. Like the lawyers that alliance Defending Freedom. They are on the front lines consistently going all the way up to the Supreme Court to protect our first Amendment rights, to protect the rights of women and girls to their own sex exclusive spaces and sports teams. And they're not just doing this in America, they're doing this in Finland. They're doing this all around the world wherever people are unable to exercise their religious freedom and their freedom of speech. They are approaching right now a critical fiscal year end fundraising deadline. This is how they do things. They rely on our donations to keep going and to fight for the Constitution in a way that helps not just us, but our children and our children's children. So if you want to contribute to that, make an investment and the freedom of your future generations, go to joinadf.com ally Every dollar you give will be doubled thanks to a special matching grant. JoinADF.com ally. Okay, I just want to make a correction that this beautiful little baby girl that was created using via IVF or using IVF to the incorrect parents is not a black American. She is, she is South South Asian. So she apparently comes from two Indian parents. So let me tell you this New York Times reporting of the story because it really is so crazy and so scary to think about. In December 2025, a Florida woman gave birth to a child who is not genetically related to her. Tiffany Score and Stephen Mills. They're a white couple. They went through the process of IVF and Scora carried an embryo to term that was not hers. Which became obvious when she gave birth to a beautiful baby in cocoa colored skin. So she was a surrogate for someone else's baby without consenting to that, without realizing that genetic testing confirmed that there had been a mix up. It's very, very obvious. We just put up a picture of this family. She doesn't look anything genetically like any parent in any way. And the mix up confer or the testing confirmed the baby Shay was 100% South Asian. Another couple's embryo had been placed into Score's womb by mistake. After multiple meetings with both sets of parents, they agreed that Score and Mills would be the baby's permanent custodial parents. But the Genetic parents who've chosen to remain anonymous would be involved in her life. Just think about this as a mom, how hard this would be. Not only that you have given birth to, okay, you've carried this little baby in your womb and you have held her and you love her. This also just says so much about the surrogacy process. This woman is not genetically related to this baby, not her genetic mother, but wants to keep her. It's not like this mother found out, oh, this is not my baby. I don't love her, I don't want her. Clearly she had created a bond with this child just by carrying her, just by gestating her, just by birthing her, just by loving her. And she felt so intertwined with this baby that she did not want to let her go. Now, understand, that also is what happens in the surrogacy situation, which is not talked about enough, although it is talked about. It is unnatural because God created our bodies to bond with the baby to that we created. That baby that we created is also supposed to be genetically ours. So there should be no, like, moral or ethical confusion about that. That bond exists for a reason, even when that baby is not genetically related to you. The genetic parents lawyer Robert Marcero, said as painful as this has been, they ultimately felt like this was the best outcome of a horrible situation. There was no good answer. It was just agonizing for everyone involved. And yes, that is absolutely true. I mean, think about this. If you were in this situation and not only you carried the wrong embryo that was not yours, but say another couple had your embryo, had your genetic child, I would be raising both. I would be like, yeah, I don't think that I'm going to give away this child that I have, just that I've just bonded to through gestation. And I would also like my genetic child. I could never allow someone unless it was. You know, I understand in adoptive situations you make that decision beforehand, but oh my goodness, I couldn't. I could never allow someone to raise my child. I could never allow that. I could never allow that. I can't. I can't even imagine the pain that she would feel. And I also wouldn't want to give up the baby that I had just put been pregnant with. The lawyer added, Shay's genetic parents gave up their claim despite wishing to keep her because the law grants greater protections to birth parents, meaning a genetic connection alone does not automatically make you the legal parent, even if the child is biologically yours. Look, that's sticky. On the one hand, I could See a lot of people saying, oh, my gosh, that's wrong. Obviously, biology trumps everything else. But then you think about all different kinds of situations in which biology actually doesn't trump everything else. Adoption, foster care, abusive situations. I'm not saying these genetic parents were abusive at all. But it's not always biology that creates the safest situation for a child in some, you know, extreme scenarios. Let's see. The courts weigh multiple factors to determine custody of a child. Score and Mills filed a lawsuit in January against IVF Life Inc. The parent company of the now closed Orlando Fertility Clinic and its director. The couple is also looking to track down their own embryos and find out if one of their embryos might have also been implanted in another woman or transferred to another woman is the right wording there. Or if they still exist. Oh, my goodness. Imagine this. You think that all of your babies are safe on ice, and there's really no way of knowing for sure. No way of knowing. Now you guys know for this reason, for so many more reasons that we might touch on in a second. Although you've heard me talk about it a lot, I am against the practice of ivf. I think it just places too many risks on the baby intentionally in service of a good desire, which is to be a mom or dad. But you're saying, you know what, despite all of these risks that this child will have to. To bear, I'm going to make them endure that so that I can possibly become a parent. I think that that is a disordered way to start life, and this is one. One example of that. But I cannot imagine. I cannot imagine this scenario. So I would just say if you are going to go through with ivf, if you are going to take these risks that, again, your child will have to suffer from, then you need to ask the clinic, every single person involved, what are your processes to ensuring that something like this never happens? What is your process to ensure that my embryos stay? My embryos. Those embryos look the same, and they're not going through and testing every single one multiple times, because that's dangerous to the embryo to see whose is whose. Shay's genetic parents, so who do not get custody are also suing the clinic and the doctor in addition to their case. Marce Rowe, that's the lawyer, is representing three clients who had mixed up embryos at other clinics. He said clinics do not have to report mix ups. Clinics in the United States do not have to report mix ups. So what have we said before? We said that America and The west, but really America is a wild, wild west for the fertility industry. It is so unregulated, it's insane. And we actually saw that exact wording that America is the wild wild west for the fertility industry. In that case, where the Alabama Supreme Court held liable that fertility clinic that had, I think, accidentally destroyed the embryos of a couple. Couples who did not want their embryos destroyed. There is a huge problem and actually the Trump administration and many Republicans are pushing for it to be be even easier for people to be able to use IVF and to toy with these embryos. I don't think that's the intention of Trump or the Republicans, but that will be the consequence. That will be the consequence. There will be more broken situations like this. He said that this lawyer said he's representing 26 families in another big fertility scandal. An Orange county fertility doctor for allegedly moving a couple's embryos to an undisclosed closed location and refusing to give them back. Okay, kidnapped embryo napped. There are other high profile IVF mix ups. According to an NB NBC review of state and federal records, there are more than 300 lawsuits between 2019 and 2014 involving allegations that reproductive materials, including embryos, eggs or sperm, were lost, destroyed or mixed up. Here's another story. Two couples experience an embryo mixed up at the California center for Reproductive Health, resulting in each woman giving birth to the other couple's baby in September of 2019. How incredibly distressing. In 2020, a Utah couple, Donna and Vanner Johnson, discovered through a DNA test that their 12 year old son Tim, born in 2008 via IVF, was named not biologically related to his father. So what happened there is that it wasn't the wrong embryo that was transferred, it was the wrong sperm that was mixed with the wrong egg. How many times does that happen? I mean, these are just what's reported on. And if these clinics don't have to actually report the mix ups, then we have no clue. We have no clue. Think about the identity crisis that a child could go through thinking, well, not only when the child thinks that this is really my dad, but the father thinks this is really my dad. And if you think this stuff doesn't matter, we are hardwired to know from where we come, like where our genetics come from, where our different traits come from, whose we are that matters. It is part of being made in God's image. That is why our God calls himself a father to the fatherless. Because this is such a deep, innate need in all of us to know who is our Designated protector and provider. Where do I come from? And that is why I say adoption redeems a broken situation. Okay, it is a broken situation. Someone got mad at me the other day on X for saying that, that, oh, are you saying I come from a broken situation if I was adopted? Well, yes. You also come from a redemptive situation. That is really beautiful. And it's so redemptive that it's actually like the allegory that is used to explain the gospel that we Gentiles were adopted by God through Christ. That's an incredible thing. But it starts with the broken situation and adoption. The broken situation is that your mom, as bravely as she possibly could, had to give you up or had to allow another couple to raise you because of whatever situation that she was in. The ideal situation for every single child is biological. Married mom and dad raising you in the same home. That is the ideal. Now, we live in a broken world and so sin and abuse and brokenness and personal choices break down that ideal and adoption can redeem that. But all of these situations that start at conception, surrogacy, sperm egg donation, and yes, I would say even ivf, all of those situations are saying we are putting a risk on the child in order to serve our desire to have children. Whenever we go from what is natural to what is possible without asking, but is this biblical, is this moral, is this ethical, is this right? Then we are going to cause all kinds of problems, not only in our own hearts, but in the world. I think about Hagar and all of the disruption for generations that it caused when Sarah and Abraham, Abraham didn't fully trust the Lord and so they used a surrogate to have a child. Ishmael was born. It didn't go well. Mo wives, mo problems, as we say. But certainly again, going from what God actually intends to what is possible through technology, or going around what is natural, it's always going to cause some kind of chaos and confusion. Now, kids born through IVF are made in the image of God. You are a good mom, a good dad. I know you love, love your children. There's not a question about that. Um, but I, I, I cannot get on board with an industry and with a practice that is rife with so many ethical issues that kids are really sacrificed for. I don't think that any kid's well being should be placed on the altar of adult desire, even a good desire to become a parent. All right, we've got a little bit more on this in just a second, but let me go ahead and Pause. Let me tell you about our next sponsor for the day, and that is everylife, y'. All. I love everylife. We use their products all the time. We are out. We are not in a diaper stage right now. Of course, we've got another little one arriving in just a few months. Thank the Lord. And so we will be in the diaper stage again, but for the first time in a long time, we are not using diaper products in our home. However, we still use the wipes and all of their other amazing products because not only are they great materials and clean and really effective and wonderful, but also because everylife is the pro life diaper company and you don't want to, as far as you can help it, support these companies that are supporting abortion and supporting all kinds of awful things that we don't want to get on board with. Another Christian family centered pro life company that you should absolutely support. And I would not be supporting them if their diapers didn't really work. And they do. Go to everylife.com use promo code ALI10. You'll get 10% off your first order today. That's everylife.com promo code ALI10. You know, I get angry messages about my stance on IVF all the time. I'm a Christian. I believe that all people are made in God's image and we become people at the moment of conception. We are a unique human at that moment with our own human DNA. And I don't know how to define person other than a unique human being. And once you start defining personhood as anything other than being a unique human being, well, that's when you start to justify all different kinds of things, all kinds of objectification and atrocities because you, you are arbitrarily deciding which human is a person and which human is not. And then you are basing someone's rights and value based on that arbitrary definition of personhood. I think the morally, ethically and certainly biblically safest definition of a person is a unique human being. So that means from the moment of conception onward. And so obviously that's why I don't believe in abortion because all babies in or outside of the womb are people. And, and it's wrong to kill an innocent person and should be illegal. But also how we treat embryos through IVF really matters. And I know that there are Christians who have gone through IVF and you have used every embryo. That is absolutely the best possible way. If there is no pornography used, which is also very, very common in conception, you got to have a sperm, you Got to have an egg. The guy uses pornography in order to collect the sperm sample and then they fertilize. That's wrong. Like Christians. That's not even a question. Christians shouldn't be doing that. And so if there's no pornography involved, just husband, wife situation to create that. And every single embryo is, is created, not graded for any kind of special needs, any kind of genetic anomaly, not, not used eugenically to decide if you want boys or girls. You only create the number of embryos that you are willing to transfer. You transfer every single one of those embryos. That is absolutely the best case scenario. But this is my problem. No one can guarantee that. No one can guarantee that that is what's going to happen. Because I can't tell you how many sweet Christian, well intentioned women have reached out to me and said, I intended to use all of my embryos to transfer all, all of my embryos. But I found out I can't have any more kids or I have health problems, or I thought that we were only creating four. Well, they actually created seven. And I just got a message from someone, this was not a sweet Christian woman, this was a very angry woman. And saying, you're trying to tell me I should have seven children because I created seven embryos? Yeah, yeah, I am. Those are, those are people. And she said, oh well, we donated the rest to science. You donated your children to science? Of course I don't think, think that's okay. Of course I don't think that's okay. Those are people, those are children. They might not look the same, but since when are we judging someone's personhood and value and rights on how they look like? Are we really trying to make the argument if someone looks different than us, then they don't have rights? I seem to remember throughout history that justification for giving and taking away human rights not really working out very well. And so I'm just not willing to go down that road. And because it carries so much inherent risk for the baby, because there is no guarantee that you are going to be able to have that most ethical outcome, I don't believe Christians should ever start taking the risk. Especially when there are so many babies who exist who need homes, it is a good desire to have children. I think it's a very natural desire to have your own genetic children. But desires, even good desires, don't justify the every means by which we carry out that desire. And so people are very angry about this. I had a woman who, some kind of influencer, liberal influencer, who clipped Me basically saying that the same thing a couple weeks ago because we talk about this quite often and just basically making the argument that I did. There was nothing in the clip that I was like, oh, yeah, I could see how that sounded a little harsh. It's just my perspective as a Christian. She called me a radical Christian nationalist that I, people like me are controlling Donald Trump and controlling the government. Wow. I guess the fact that Donald Trump is the exact opposite stance as me on IVF is just further proof of my power. The fact that I have like no influence over this administration whatsoever, nor have, have I ever tried, nor do I want to, nor is that like a role that I'm trying to occupy. I guess that's just some kind of secret signal that people like me are controlling the administration. Look, I have a view, I have a perspective. I am a Christian. Progressives seem to not be able to see that not everyone is like them. Not everyone is constantly thinking about how to use every single bit of government power in order to get people to conform to our beliefs. Now, I do believe in the protection of embryos. I do. I do, of course, in order to be consistent about abortion, I do believe that there should be protections for embryos. And I do believe that it is wrong how we have completely unregulated and dysregulated IVF and infertility practices in the United States, especially when it comes to surrogacy and how we're defining parenthood. I mean, children are always the unconsenting subjects of progressive social experiments. That's just the case. And I, I see a lot of Christian leaders, I get it, they're scared to talk about this. And it just goes to show for me that we really aren't like, we're just very, as Christians, we're not very justice based minded. Like we might talk about justice when it comes up in, I don't know, the summer of George Floyd in 2020. But I don't think most Christians even really think about what justice means and like advocating for the most vulnerable. They might think about abortion, but most Christians are confused and very wishy washy on abortion, especially those that speak up the most about things like social justice, typically. But most Christians really are not thinking in terms of like, what am I called to speak up about on behalf of these vulnerable children that have no political capital. They are thinking, I do not want to offend. This is the one. I'm not going to say that because there are too many people in my congregation who would be sad about that, who would be offended by that. But speaking the truth and love on behalf of vulnerable children, I believe it's always, always worth it. Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. And before you were born, I consecrated you. I appointed you a prophet to the nation. Speaking to the prophet Jeremiah Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. And before you were born, I consecrated you. God sees and knows and forms life inside the womb. Psalm 139:13 16 for you formed my inward parts, you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you. I'm fearfully and wonderful made, and this is one of my favorite parts. My frame was not hidden from you. When I was being made in secret, your eyes saw my unformed substance. My unformed substance. I think about an embryo, I think about a zygote. I think about a baby in those earliest, earliest moments when most people, they look at that and they're like, well, that can't be human because it doesn't look enough like me, because it's not a toddler or it's not an adult. God sees the unformed substance. He is knitting that together. He is creating it. Far be it from us to do anything to purposely risk that little baby's life or to denigrate his or her value. Psalm 127:3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb. A reward, not a right, not an ends justify the means right that we are entitled to, but a gracious gift, gift that we are called to receive and steward for God's glory. All right, we got some voicemails to get to, so let me go ahead, I'll do our last sponsor and then we'll get into our voicemails. That last sponsor is good ranchers. Love good ranchers. We eat good ranchers almost every night in this ducky home because it's just so versatile. It's so good. I love knowing that I am supporting American farms and farmers. You know, I don't know if you've seen this, but a lot of the meat that we're seeing in grocery stores, they have little signals on there that saying, like, don't worry, this is halal. Like, this is this cow was slaughtered. And you know, this meat was created in a way that aligns with Islamic regulations for livestock killing. Well, okay. I just really like knowing that my farmers and that my ranchers, that they love America, that they're putting America first. I love the meat companies I use to be Christian, family centered, God honoring America first. Especially in this 250th birthday of the United States. And so get your meat from Good Ranchers. If you go to goodranchers.com and you use code Ali, you will get a discount on your order. That is Good Ranchers. It's $50 off good ranchers.com code Ally. All right, now we're going to get to voicemails. I'm not sure if we'll have time for one or two. Let's go ahead and play. Voicemail one.
- [60:20]
C
Hey Ally, this is Riley. I was wondering if you've ever talked about pregnancy loss on your podcast. Praise the lord. We are 10 weeks along with our fourth baby, but the last two we sadly lost before they could be born, one of which during a topic pregnancy. And I was just wondering if you could share encouragement and joy and hope from the scriptures, from your life, from others lives, just to bring joy out of brokenness for moms who might be scared or grieving. Thanks so much. Love your show. Bye.
- [60:51]
A
Yeah, well, thank you so much for your question and I'm so sorry. I just want you to know that those babies mattered and they were made in God's image and that it might seem like everyone around you, like they forget or that they move on and you never will. You'll never forget those babies and you have a part of them forever. I believe just in pregnancy, through how our bodies interact, interact with those new cells that are created and those new babies that are created. Science shows that that stays in our mind and our bodies forever, but also just in your heart and you will get to see them again one day. I believe that. I'm grateful for that. That is like the hope of glory and the hope of heaven. Not only that we get to be with Jesus forever and ever and there will be no more miscarriage anymore, but also that we will be be reunited with those that we love, those that have gone before us who were younger than us and never got to take their first breath, and those who went before us, our grandparents, our great grandparents, parents that we missed so much. Like that is the hope of the resurrection and the hope of the cross that like you will get to see those babies one day. Um, and I understand for a lot of women, like there is fear around getting pregnant again because of those losses. And I think that's completely understandable. And yet Philippians 4:6 tells us something that to me just is like so radical and that is do not be anxious about anything. Do not be anxious about anything. It's like, how is that even possible? But in everything, with prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Wow, that is such a great promise. So it's not just that we are called to not be anxious and to just sit there and just, okay, okay, I'm not gonna be anxious, not gonna be anxious, but to exchange it for something else. Do something active with that anxiety, lay it before the Lord, and instead pray petition him, Lord, I need this. Lord, I need you. Lord, protect this next baby, protect me, protect our family, protect our marriage. And thank you so much for all that you have done for us. Thank you for the cross, thank you for the gospel. And then somehow God, through this exchange, when we lay down our anxiety at the altar and instead pray before him, he says, okay. In exchange for that, I give you peace. Not peace that says, oh, okay. There's never gonna be another miscarriage or loss or tragedy again. Not a peace that says, okay. I can completely trust my doctors and science that everything is going to turn out a piece that surpasses, transcends our understanding, logical reasoning, rationality, it fills us by the Holy Spirit. And so that's just what I encourage. Not just you, but all moms out there, and not only those who have endured miscarriage, because all of us have to deal with the potential for anxiety inducing events in our life. And God tells us something really crazy, which is don't be anxious and about anything. So I'm so sorry for your loss. I just pray that the Lord would bless you with more and more gifts of children and that you would steward your desire for children in any way that he presents to you. Even if that's through volunteering, through ministry at your church. And you have a lot of love to give and the Lord wants to use that to glorify him and to better the lives of the other people that are around you. All right, that's all we've got time for today. Thank you guys so much for listening. We will be back here on Wednesday.