Ep 1374 | Kathryn Krick: Apostle or Actress? The Truth About Her Viral Exorcisms

Summary

Podcast Summary: Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey

Episode: 1374 | "Kathryn Krick: Apostle or Actress? The Truth About Her Viral Exorcisms"

Date: July 22, 2026
Host: Allie Beth Stuckey (Blaze Podcast Network)
Guest Commentators: Various (Voddie Baucham, audio clips, former church members)

Episode Overview

This episode offers a critical, in-depth analysis of Kathryn Crick, a self-proclaimed apostle and viral figure in charismatic Christianity. Allie Beth Stuckey interrogates Crick’s background, teachings, exorcism practices, and her place within the broader “New Apostolic Reformation” (NAR) movement. The host draws careful distinctions between biblical Christianity and what she views as concerning manipulations of faith for fame and financial gain. The tone is investigative, biblical, unapologetically conservative, and blends seriousness with Allie’s signature wit.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Who Is Kathryn Crick? (12:20)

• Background: Moved to LA in 2013 to pursue acting, with previous roles in racy sitcom pilots and appearances on reality TV dating shows (15:02).
• Transition to Ministry: Shifted from acting and a brief stint as a Christian EDM artist to deliverance ministry after a pivotal event at a healing conference in 2016.
• Rise to Fame: Went viral on TikTok and YouTube with videos depicting faith healing and exorcisms; founded 5F (Fivefold) Church in Los Angeles, amassing millions of social followers and publishing best-selling books.
• Signature Style: Dramatic displays of exorcism, theatrical “deliverances”, “slaying” crowds by blowing into a microphone, “convulsions” during her presence (06:55).

2. Early Influences & Spiritual Mentors (17:00)

• Impartation by Jordavi: Crick’s “apostleship” originates in a prophetic anointing by Tanzanian preacher Jordavi, himself a controversial figure with accusations of sexual misconduct and allegations of exploiting poor followers.
• Quote – Allie Beth Stuckey (19:48):

  “She is talking to this person, calling him daddy, saying, we want to make you famous because without you, she says, they will not know the real Jesus unless they know you. To this individual. Now, do we see any biblical support for that idea?... He doesn’t need a single one of us in order to accomplish his purposes.”

3. Main Concerns With Crick’s Ministry

A. Self-Proclaimed Apostleship (28:51)

• Allie lays out the biblical qualifications for apostle-ship, contrasting them with Crick’s claims and NAR teachings.
  • Apostles were eyewitnesses of the risen Christ, chosen directly by Him (Luke 6:13, Acts 1; 1 Corinthians 9:1).
• Crick’s Defense: Uses Acts 5:38–39 (“if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them...”) to preempt criticism.
• Quote – Crick (31:10):

  “You will only find yourselves fighting against God. You will not be able to stop them. ...You can try all you want to get people to try to believe your lies, and you will fail.”

• Response – Voddie Baucham (32:29):

  “We have no apostles today. Amen. They’re gone. The age of the apostles is over.”

B. Theatrical Exorcisms & Staged Miracles (43:23)

• Contentions:
  • Healings and deliverances are highly performative, often featuring repeat “patients” and exhibitionist displays not reflective of biblical exorcisms—immediacy replaced by drama and repetition.
  • Evidence of using the same people multiple times in different exorcism events (voice, tattoos, etc.).
  • Borrowing techniques from televised faith healers (e.g., Benny Hinn, Paula White).
• Former Church Member’s Critique (50:42):

  “These same two girls kept screaming out during every deliverance prayer time... Why aren’t they getting delivered? Or why are they getting delivered every single week? Did the demons not listen? Is the authority of Christ not here? What’s happening?”

• Allie’s Analysis (51:32):

  “If you recall in Acts...we read that the people were healed, that the demons were cast out, these things were actually being accomplished. We don’t read, ‘Hey, sometimes they had it, sometimes they didn’t.’... God’s power is so authoritative, so supreme that it is actually impossible for it to fail.”

C. Financial Manipulation—“Sowing Seeds” for Deliverance (61:28)

• Practice: Crick instructs followers to “sow a seed” (i.e., give money) to secure or “seal” their healing/deliverance.
• Quote – Crick (61:28):

  “If you were delivered today, I encourage you to sow a special seed to seal this deliverance. ...So there’s a new covenant of freedom that God’s made with you today. So sow this seed.”

• Tells a mother 10% tithe is insufficient for her son’s healing; she must tithe more (61:58).
• Allie’s Response (62:56):

  “You need to give more than 10% of your tithe in order for your son to be healed. And some deliverance is more complicated than the others. Chapter and verse, chapter and verse. Where do you see that?... He needs you... Like that formula is not in scripture.”

• Contradictory disclaimer found on Crick’s own website (63:57):

  “Beware of scammers. Apostle Katherine will never DM anyone... or telling you that God says you have to sow a seed.”

• Allie’s Commentary (64:47):

  “Is her name me?... The reason people are being scammed by that is because it sounds like something she would say.”

D. Cult-Like Devotion From Followers (71:51)

• Followers refer to Crick as “Mama,” bow before her, offer gifts, and venerate her in a manner compared to the Magi honoring Jesus.
• Quotes from Followers (71:51–72:47):

  “Happy early birthday. It is such an honor to serve you. I honor you as your spiritual daughter. ...Thank you for laying down your life that we may live and be equipped and transformed.”

• Allie’s Response (72:47):

  “This is veneration. This is so far outside of what is appropriate for Christianity. ...God doesn’t need us. ...That is the opposite of what we are seeing here.”

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Key Segments & Timestamps

• Introduction & Purpose: 00:00–08:19
• Kathryn Crick's Digital Presence & Viral Phenomena: 08:19–10:53
• Historical Roots: Acting Career & Spiritual Shift: 12:20–17:00
• The Jordavi “Anointing” 17:00–19:48
• Discussion: Cult of Personality and Spiritual Manipulation: 24:13–28:51
• Biblical Examination of Apostleship & NAR: 28:51–43:23
• Dissection of Deliverance Videos & Repeat Actors: 43:23–51:32
• Financial Practices: Seed Sowing and Prosperity Teaching: 61:28–64:47
• Cult-Like Follower Devotion: 71:51–72:47
• Biblical Cautions on False Teachers: 72:47–End

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Claiming Apostolic Authority:
  • “We have no apostles today. Amen. They’re gone. The age of the apostles is over.” – Voddie Baucham (32:29)
• On Doubting Her Deliverance Methods:
  • “Why are they getting delivered every single week? Did the demons not listen? Is the authority of Christ not here?” – Former member (50:42)
  • “With the power of God, I would actually think... that it is actually impossible for it to fail.” – Allie (51:32)
• On “Seed-Sowing” and Financial Demands:
  • “Sow this seed to secure your deliverance. We have a little bit of an inside joke… is her name me?” – Allie (64:47)
• On Cult-Like Devotion:
  • “Thank you for laying down your life that we may live and be equipped and transformed. So I honor you.” – Church member (72:18)
  • “This is veneration. ...That is the opposite of what we are seeing here.” – Allie (72:47)
• On Biblical Warning:
  • “Having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power...” – Allie quoting 2 Timothy 3 (72:47)
  • “Christians are never commanded to chase miracles or to submit themselves to self-appointed apostles.” – Allie (73:45)

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Conclusion & Final Perspective

• Host’s Final Take:
  • Allie Beth Stuckey unequivocally concludes that Katherine Crick’s ministry is “false” and “dangerous,” marked by doctrinal error, spiritual manipulation, financial exploitation, and cult-of-personality tactics.
  • She emphasizes discernment (“be like the Bereans”), encourages listeners to weigh all teaching against the Word of God, and urges sharing of the episode to help others who may be taken in by such ministries.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Practical Discernment: Weigh all teachers and ministries against clear biblical standards—especially claims of apostleship, miracle working, and demands for money.
• Warning Signs: Repetitive staging of miracles, appeals for money linked to spiritual healing, and cult-like veneration of leaders are red flags.
• Biblical Clarity: Apostleship, miraculous gifts, and new revelation claims must be rooted in Scripture.
• Action: Be vigilant, test teachings, and help others do the same.

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Further Resources

• Past episodes on religion vs. relationship and the New Apostolic Reformation
• Works by Alisa Childers, Mike Winger, John MacArthur (e.g., "Strange Fire")
• Scriptural references: Ephesians 2; Acts 1; Matthew 10; Mark 1 and 5; Luke 5; 2 Timothy 3; 1 John 4

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For listeners uncertain about charismatic phenomena in the church, this episode provides a thorough, biblically grounded critique of modern “apostles” like Katherine Crick—and a sober call to discernment in an age of viral faith.

Transcript

[Alisa Childers]

Katherine Crick is a pastor of a large church in Los Angeles. She also calls herself an apostle. She regularly goes viral for her faith healing and deliverance videos. But who is she? Where does she come from? And how do her teachings and practices actually stack up against the Word of God? Buckle up. You're gonna want to stick around for the entire episode today. We have got so much about Katherine Crick and also the movement that she is a part of on today's episode of Relatable Foreign. Hey y'. All. Welcome to Relatable. Happy Wednesday. Hope everyone has had a wonderful week. So we're doing things a little bit differently today. Typically, Wednesday is our news episode and today is going to feel more like a theology episode as we talk about this person who calls herself Apostle Katherine Crick. Going through her background, some of the doctrines that she teaches, some of the practices that she displays on social media, and then comparing them to the Word of God and asking ourselves, is this person a true edifying teacher of the Word of God? Is she truly an apostle or is she something else entirely that Christians really need to look out for? But I could not wait until next Monday to talk about all of this. I put out a video on Instagram reacting to recent interactions, interaction she was having with some of her fans, which will play in just a couple of minutes. Got a ton of comments about this. There's a lot of disagreement in my audience about this person and the things that she does. And so I think it's really important to talk about and to give you my perspective and much more importantly, what I believe the Word of God has to say about this kind of teaching, if you can call it that. First, before we get into it, just a reminder, come to share the arrows. If you are a Christian or woman, you need to come to share the arrows. Whether you agree with the contents of this episode or whether you completely disagree with the contents of this episode, I really encourage you to join us on October 10th in Dallas, Texas. I promise you, you will leave edified, you will leave taught, you will leave challenged, you will leave equipped, you will leave rejuvenated and refreshed. This is a gospel filled, no fluff teaching conference just for women. We've got Shane and Shane leading us in worship. I'm so excited about that. Alisa Childers is making her way back for the third time, this time with Natasha Crane. We've got Rosaria Butterfield coming back for the second time. Audrey Brogy, her daughter Grace, Anna Castleberry. We've got a relate a bro Costi hen this year's Share the arrows is brought to you by our friends at Adele Natural Cosmetics. And one more thing before we get into the bulk of our episode, and that is to remind you that every other Saturday we My dad puts out an episode on YouTube on all of the different podcast platforms, and you should definitely be tuning into that. He gives a different perspective with his experience and his own expertise than I put forth three times a week, and it is typically filled with wisdom about economics, finances, the different choices that you can make in your family. But he also gives his perspective on foreign policy. He also has a political background. When I was in college, he was a state representative for the state of Texas, and so he also has that perspective as someone who really understands how all of this works on a legislative level. Only watch that and listen to that if you want to be smarter by the end of it, if you want a better understanding of how the world works and specifically the state our country is in, if you want to feel better about the state that our country is in, the state that our world is in, if you want to feel more peaceful, then you should listen to my dad's episodes every other Saturday. All right, let's get into it. We've got a lot to get into. My team and I worked really, really hard on all of the research, on all of the details. We wanted to make sure that we got everything exactly correct, that we have every source exactly the way that we want it, that we have all the examples that we can give of the arguments that we are making. And as always, we welcome your comments and your thoughts along the way, and especially if you are watching this on YouTube. So let's get into it. Who is Katherine Crick? Maybe you've heard about her just in the past few weeks. Maybe you've been following her for a while. Maybe you have no idea who I'm talking about. There she is. It's a great color on her. She calls herself an apostle. Apostle Katherine Crick. She has become a digital phenomenon over the past few years. She's got videos of supposed exorcisms, apparent demonic deliverance, and faith healings. She regularly goes viral. She is the lead pastor of a booming charismatic church. It's called 5F Church, or Fivefold Church in Los Angeles, and across all of her social media platforms, she's got millions of followers. She also offers online courses on deliverance ministry. She's published three books. She's got the Secret of the Anointing, Accessing the Power of God to Walk in Miracles, Unlock your Deliverance, Keys to Freedom From Demonic Oppression. And then her latest book, Ignite Revival. Be Set on Fire to Change the world. This latest book, just to show again her popularity, her pervasiveness and culture. It reached number eight on nonfiction books, on the USA Today bestseller list for two weeks. And again, just to give you a sense of how popular she seems to be and how much those who follow her really love her, I'm going to play you this, this clip of the people who are at her book signing. I think it was down in Houston at a bookstore, reacting to her. Okay, so she is a pair. She's just signing a book right now. And for those of you who are listening, I'm going to describe. You see, people just, they just start to convulse in front of her. They start to. I don't, I'm just. I don't know how else to say except for spaz out. They start convulsing, they start falling on chairs. She's not in some of these physically casting out demons or even saying anything. They are just in her presence. They're laying prostrate on the floor and their body starts to make these seizure like movements. There are other videos online that feature her knocking down crowds of her followers by blowing into a microphone. Yeah, you can see she's just. So again, for those who are listening, she's. She's waving her arms around. She's waving her arms around. She starts blowing frantically into the microphone. Also. You can see if someone has their eyes closed and doesn't realize that they should be following falling down. She starts to verbally tell them, like the anointing is on you. Like this guy right here, his eyes are closed. And so they had to do a jump cut until he fell down to the ground. I'm sorry, but I'm already thinking that there's something going on there with the editing process. These are the kinds of things that we are not taking out of context. These are videos that she and her team are posting themselves as a demonstration of the apparent power, the supposed power that she has as an alleged apostle. All right, we'll get into more of it in just a second. Let me pause. Let me tell you about our first sponsor. It's Alliance Defending Freedom. What an incredible partner and leader ADF is in the fight for our First Amendment rights, the fight for our right to be able to speak controversial truths like a woman is a woman. Only women can give birth, protect girls, sports, Jesus is the way, the truth and life. No one comes to the father except through him. All of these, all of these things are protected speech because of our First Amendment. And our First Amendment is under attack, especially in places like Colorado. We saw that with Jack Phillips. Jack Phillips was a client of adf. And so many others, especially in these blue states are not able to live out their Christian faith in the public square because of the progressive attack on the First Amendment. ADF is regularly going all the way to the Supreme Court to be able to protect our rights, to fight for girls in girl sports, to fight for fairness not just in America, but all around the world. I was just with ADF a few weeks ago in San Diego at their conference. They are the real deal, y'.

[Guest or Co-host]

All.

[Alisa Childers]

I am so happy to partner with them and endorse them and be a part of this mission. Be a part of ADF. Go to join ADF.com/Ally. Make whatever donation you can today. When you do, you are investing not only in your rights, but in the rights of your kids and grandkids. Go to join ADF.com/ali joinadf.com/ali. Okay, so some of you, I've already seen some of you comment and say this really reminds you of Benny Hinn. Now you might have heard me say the name Costi Hinn just a few minutes ago when I was talking about Share the arrows. Costi Hinn is Benny Hinn's nephew and grew up in this name it and claim it faith healing, kind of hyper charismatic movement that you just saw kind of demonstrated through Katherine Crick. It is very similar. Of course, Costi Hen is no longer a part of that theology, has denounced that theology and is such a wonderful preacher of the true gospel and the Word of God. And he talks a lot about the false teachings of his uncle and people who believe him. So just to go down memory lane, this is what this kind of teaching has looked like in decades past. Psalm 15 all the pain is gone in his chest. We break against the name of the Lord. Holy, holy. All the pain is gone. Okay, first time wasn't enough. Knock me down and get back up again. Three separate knockdowns to release the pain in his chest. As you see as we will talk about, this kind of mechanism for apparent healing is not actually what we see when we read about healing in scripture. We'll get into that in just a little bit. Maybe this reminds you of someone like Paula White. Now remember, Paula White is Trump's spiritual advisor. We have talked about her and her problematic theology several times. Here she is doing a similar song and dance. 16 Fire Fire Fire. Fairness is broken. Come on. Fair enough. You come on there, soaking off your

[Guest or Co-host]

life in Jesus name and great.

[Alisa Childers]

Okay. Oh my goodness. I'm sorry. It's very difficult not to laugh because it does absolutely look like nonsense and it looks nothing like when Jesus was casting out demons and say, for example, Mark 5. Again, I don't want to get too ahead of ourselves. We're going to get into all of that. I want to focus right now on Katherine Crick and who she, who she is. But just to give you some context, Catherine Crick is not new. She is carrying on the legacy of a lot of people who become very popular, whether it is televangelism, like in the era of Benny Hinn on social media, like what she's using today. This is the new health and wealth leader for the age of TikTok. And there are really three main distinctives of Katherine Crick's ministry that concern me that we will discuss today. The first one is her self proclaimed title of apostle. The second is her theatrical exorcisms and healings. And then the third is her guaranteeing spiritual blessings for financial donations. Apostle theatrical exorcisms and then promising spiritual blessing for donations. My concerns, because I know I'm going to get this criticism from people who just assume that I'm calling her out because I'm not charismatic. But my concerns are not centered on that she's charismatic. What I mean by that is someone who believes in prophecy and speaking in tongues and healing. There are many solid Christians I respect who are what we call continuationists who believe that the miracle gifts continue on today and must continue through the church. I am not charismatic. I am not a continuationist. I'm a Southern Baptist who believes that the miracle gifts of the Holy Spirit as normative practices among Christians have ceased with the apostles, the eyewitnesses of the resurrected Jesus. So gifts like speaking in tongues and foretelling prophecy, I believe that those have ceased as a rule. Now that does not mean that I am quote, unquote, limiting God. It doesn't mean that I think that God can't do these things. God can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, however he wants. But those who are called cessationists believe that those are not the mechanisms that he typically uses today. And we can get into that debate another day. That disagreement is not actually the focus of my concern when it comes to Catherine Crick. My concern is that she may be using charismatic theology, a dynamic personality, the power of social media to spiritually manipulate and emotionally manipulate people into providing her with wealth and power. But let's talk about who she is and you can decide for yourself at the end of all of this whether my concerns are justified or whether you think they aren't. So first, let's back up. Where did Katherine Crick come from? We'll look at some of her history and some of her early career. This is not a, you know, lifelong dedication to ministry. According to Alta Journal, that's a California based magazine. They talk about arts and culture, they chronicle her rise as a well known minister, and they note that it began not in seminary, but in Los Angeles and the acting world. In 2013, she moved to LA to pursue acting. Her acting reel from this period features her playing in several different roles. The first clip in her reel features her in a swimsuit with other women chasing a man advertising a dating site called Cougar Life with the tagline cougarlife.com where the women chase you. The second clip is her playing a porn star in a sitcom pilot. Here's that one.

[Guest or Co-host]

So Jonas, do you. Do you have a girlfriend back home?

[Interviewee or Clip Speaker]

Oh, my head. A fiance. Does that count?

[Guest or Co-host]

And you decided to move in with a porn star?

[Interviewee or Clip Speaker]

Our parents wanted us to get married and I couldn't go through with it. So I just felt like my whole life was being planned out for me, so I came here to start fresh.

[Guest or Co-host]

Well, you definitely came to the right place.

[Alisa Childers]

Okay, so we didn't play the first video of her advertising for Cougar Life because we're not going to show her in a bathing suit. The only reason we played that is because that in itself is an innocuous clip. But that's just an example from her own acting reel of the kind of parts that she was going for. She also appeared on the reality show Love at First Kiss, a dating show where strangers participate in a deep French kiss on a blind date, after which they decide whether they want to pursue a relationship. Here she is on that SOT2.

[Guest or Co-host]

It's weird enough for me to kiss someone I don't know. So I really want it to be just a nice, innocent heck. Okay, this is crazy. I can't believe his life. What? Like, what just happened? Like, I feel like I'm in heaven. Where are the clouds and the angels

[Alisa Childers]

flying around like, okay, so she was using lots of different outlets to get her name on there. We'll say that. So she tried to make it in the acting world and then she spent a brief period pursuing a career as a Christian electronic dance music artist. All right, it was shortly after this that she says that she found her calling as an apostle. She has a video on her YouTube channel where she says that she became interested in what's called deliverance ministry after attending churches where she witnessed things like healings and exorcisms. And her life took a dramatic turn in September 2016. So about a year after that music video that we just posted played when she attended a healing, anointing and impartation conference in LA led by Tanzanian minister, self proclaimed prophet Jordavi. So Jordavi had built a following around claims of miraculous healings, deliverance from demons, while also cultivating a lavish lifestyle, a very successful business empire, and an extensive media presence in Tanzania. So he is like the African Benny Hinn. We're playing a video. Again, very similar things. I mean, you've got people fall straight to the ground. It's so often these congregations are filled with people who look like they may be struggling financially, but the person who is supposedly casting out these demons, they are also, they're always dressed to the nines. And that is because sowing financial seeds to donate to these apparent healers is a big part of this ministry. I think, non coincidentally, during the conference, Jordavi, the one that she attended in la, that Crick attended in la, apparently called Crick out from the crowd by name, delivered a personal prophecy to her telling her that she had been chosen to become an apostle of Jesus Christ who would reach the nations and through whom God would perform many miracles. And Crick has since described that particular encounter as the moment that she first believed that she had been called into apostolic ministry. Here she is in that moment. Stop for do what you please to

[Voddie Baucham]

make this anointing known. This is another gift to make this anointing known.

[Alisa Childers]

Receive this anointing. This is different. Okay, okay. So there she is, falling to the ground after what looks like grape juice in a plastic bottle was poured onto her head. And she attributes her spiritual authority, really to the anointing. Maybe not entire entirely, but it seems in large part to the anointing of this person named Jordavi.

[Guest or Co-host]

We plant this seed at your feet, Daddy, for God to have our way with us to serve you. We want the world to know you. We want you to be famous so that the real Jesus, who is full of love and power, may be known. They will not know the real Jesus unless they know you.

[Alisa Childers]

Okay, I was very confused about to whom she was speaking there, and I was hoping, actually, I found myself hoping, okay, please be talking to God. Please be talking to God when you're saying, daddy, even if that makes me wince, that would be better than her talking to this person that she apparently just met in this moment and just anointed her. But she is talking to this person, calling him daddy, saying, we want to make you famous because without you, she says, they will not know the real Jesus unless they know you. To this individual. Now, do we see any biblical support for that idea that God needs a particular individual in order to make his way known or to make his gospel known, to make himself known? No. He doesn't need us. He chooses to use us. But it is his voice that his sheep hear and understand and know he is the one who seeks and he saves the lost. He doesn't need a single one of us in order to accomplish his purposes. But here, Katherine Crick says of this person that they will not know Jesus unless they know Jordavi. Wow. So to understand her a little bit more, we gotta understand who Jordavi is. This person that she has claimed over and over again is her spiritual father. Is her spiritual daddy, the person who has mentored her, the person who has shaped what she actually believes. Is this person a solid guy with a good reputation? Does he have a history of solid biblical teaching? Does he have good fruit coming from his ministry? We'll answer those questions in just a second. Let me pause, tell you about our next sponsor. It's seven Weeks Coffee. If you've been listening for a while, you know that Seven Weeks Coffee is not just a sponsor for us. It's part of our daily routine. We absolutely love seven Weeks Coffee. We drink it in our home. I look forward to every morning waking up just so I can drink my seven Weeks Coffee. I love that it's mold free, pesticide free, super clean, tastes great, all of that good stuff. But of course, the best part is they donate 10 of every sale to pregnancy centers across the country. Because you guys have opted to allow your coffee to serve a higher purpose. They've donated nearly $2 million to these pregnancy centers across the country. That has translated into saving thousands of baby lives. So go ahead and make the switch to Seven Weeks Coffee. When you subscribe, they'll send that box of coffee to your front door every month. You save 15%. Plus when you use my code ALI, you save an extra 10%. That's 7weeks Coffee.com code ALI, 7weeks Coffee.com code ALLY. So if you look at Jordan's website, he claims that he has been commissioned by God to ignite the fire of apostolic and prophetic global revival across the nations. He has a divine mandate to do so. And by his own account, Jordavi got his start as a prophet at just age five, prophesying to his grandmother that she only had five years to live. His grandmother died five years later, and Jordavi cites this as proof of his calling as a prophet. I'm just saying if you've got a grandmother who is extremely aged, you have, like, probably a pretty good chance that they're going to die sometime in the close future. I don't know if that's necessarily an indication of someone being a prophet sent from God. Like Crick. He has a cult like following. One of the members of his church, which draws 5, 000 attendees weekly, tattooed his name on her body, resulting in her husband divorcing her. This is according to Tuco News. We'll put up a picture of that. Um, he's also been accused of sexual misconduct with multiple women, alleging that he propositioned them for sex. According to Christian Post, um, Ansi Visser, a South African minister who worked in prophetic ministry with Jordavi for years, told Burning Point Ministries, the source cited in the Christian Post article, that there were three ladies, including one that Visser knew well, who told her that Jor Davey asked, quote, to have sexual relationships with them. After Visser confronted George Davey about approaching these women, he cut off contact with her. Apparently, they no longer have any friendship. To those who have who critique Crick's allegiance to Jordavi, Crick says that she tells them, get behind me, Satan. Sat six.

[Guest or Co-host]

You know what I say to that to all those people who say that to me, who have said that to me in the past and who will say it to me in the future, I say these familiar words that Jesus said one time to a Christian, get behind me, Satan.

[Alisa Childers]

Hallelujah. Okay, so this is in a video about why I could never leave my spiritual father. So get behind me, Satan. There are also a lot of questions and criticisms about how this person, who is from a very poor country, whose ministry is primarily focused on this very poor country, he apparently is among very poor people in Tanzania. That how he has acquired so much wealth over time, wealth in itself is not evil. Being a good businessman and making profit from business endeavors is not evil. But apparently you're calling yourself an apostle or a prophet or a minister of the Lord, getting rich off of the donations of poor people because they have been convinced that doing so will help them spiritually. That is wrong. And again, do we see biblical precedent for prophets being treated in this way? Prophets being treated as idols. Prophets being treated as these famous and beloved people by all those who hear them. No, of course not. That is not how the prophets were received throughout Scripture. And so it's very interesting that these people who profess to be prophets and apostles are treated so much differently than the apostles and prophets were treated in biblical times and are able to become so rich and so comfortable and so powerful and so popular through their supposed ministries. Under Jordan's mentorship, Crick adopted the title of apostle and learned practices associated with faith healing and deliverance ministry. In 2017, she began a church called Advanced Anointing. I met in parks, rented spaces around la. It was relatively small. She's posted herself like, this is what it looked like back in 2017. Just a few people on what seems like a hillside. And of course, they were unable to meet indoors during the pandemic. And so she moved her services to public parks across LA, filming them for Facebook and YouTube. She rebranded Advanced Anointing eventually as 5F or Five Fold Church. And she called the gatherings Revival in the park. And just a little bit of context on the name Fivefold Ministry refers to Ephesians 4. 11. He gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers to equip the saints of the work of ministry for building up the body of Christ. And so she believes that that description there is applicable to her and to her church today. And she would probably say Christianity in general today. Before 2020, her small congregation remained largely unknown, drew little attention online. And then she claims that God instructed her to compile a highlight reel of the year's most dramatic miracles that she had been a part of. She posted it to tick tock on December 30, 2020, and by January 1, it had surpassed a million views. Thousands of cl, thousands of people claiming that they had experienced miracles just by watching online. And then by 2022, her YouTube subscribers had grown to a quarter of a million. Today, across all platforms, she's got 2.5 million followers. Okay, she's gained a lot of popularity. What are my concerns? We'll go through those three main concerns and then I will substantiate them. So let's go to main concern number one, her claim of apostleship. Here she is calling herself an apostle. 7. My faith grew as I saw him

[Guest or Co-host]

come through for me. As he provided. He provided an apartment, he provided furniture, he provided a job. The first audition I went on, I got the role. Things along the way, my faith was growing. And this was step one in this journey to prepare Me to accept the calling of being an apostle. In the beginning of me being called to be an apostle, I had to work through being free of religion because I really had that. I was insecure about hearing God's voice. I was insecure about praying to God. I was insecure that I didn't read my Bible enough.

[Alisa Childers]

Okay, just on that one part that she says she had to be free of religion. We did an episode pretty recently about religion versus relationship and what I think is a false dichotomy there that you can go back and listen to. We'll link that in the past episode. This idea of being free of religion typically means being free of the standards of the word of God. You'll hear a lot of people in this world say that we shouldn't limit God to a book or we shouldn't limit God to a Bible. But of course, it's not a limitation to go to God's infallible, inerrant word to tell us, okay, how should we live? What should church look like? How should we conduct our lives? How should we order our churches? How should we order our families? Of course there will be some disagreement there, but that's not a limitation. Some in the charismatic movement, which is a segment of Christianity that again emphasizes gifts of the Holy Spirit, like prophecy, speaking in tongues, hearing audibly from God, divine physical healing teach that God is restoring the offices of apostles and prophets today. And that is what is called the new Apostolic Reformation. We'll get into more of that in just a second. But that is kind of the theological legacy that she is coming from. When she is explaining that she is an apostle. And remember, she says she was commissioned as an apostle by her spiritual mentor, Jordavi. And she appeals to her apostolic authority when defending her ministry and then also attacking her critics. She says that her critics, because she's an apostle, will be unable to stop her. She quotes the Pharisee Gamaliel advising the other Jews not to obstruct the apostles because they might be going up against God. So she cites Acts 5:38 through 39. She said, so in the present case, I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone. For if this plan or this undertaking is a man, it will fail. But if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God. And so she uses that to say, look, you better watch out. If you oppose me, if you criticize me, if you say these things aren't legit, you might just be opposing God. Here's Saudi now, this is powerful.

[Guest or Co-host]

Listen to this. You will only find yourselves fighting against God. You will not be able to stop then. You hear that? You will not. You can say all the crafty lies you want to say, you can try

[Alisa Childers]

all you want

[Guest or Co-host]

to get people to try to believe your lies, and you will fail.

[Alisa Childers]

Okay, so you see how this appointing is used to preempt criticism or to shut down criticism rather than going through, you know, this is what people have said. And here is my response. Biblically, it's, well, here are some people who have been mean, which I'm against, distorting what someone looks like or lying about someone, absolutely no matter how much you disagree with them. But let me use these extreme examples and call myself an apostle just to say, hey, you're going against God. That's not honest. It's not honest. As Vodi Bakam explains about the age of the apostles and the age of apostolic authority no longer exists right now

[Voddie Baucham]

it's interesting, a lot of people today will call themselves apostles and let me say unequivocally, we have no apostles today. Amen. They're gone. The age of the apostles is over. There are no apostles today. According to the book of Ephesians, chapter two, the apostles, right? And the prophets were the foundation upon which the church is built. I don't know how many foundations your house has. Mine only has one.

[Alisa Childers]

Gosh, man, we lost so many good ones last year. So many good ones. Including vodi Bakam, the 12 foundational apostles. And it's interesting that he cites Ephesians 2 talking about the apostles as the foundation. Remember, her church is called Fivefold Church, and it refers to Ephesians 4, the apostles, the prophets. He equips those. Well, that was talking or equipped actually use past tense. Talking about the foundational apostles, not this ongoing apostolic authority. So foundational apostles, Peter, Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James, Thaddeus, Simon the Zealot, Judas Iscariot, who was later of course replaced with Matthias, and then Paul, who was also chosen after his conversion. But of course did see, Jesus did interact with Jesus. The apostles were personally chosen by Christ. Okay, that is one distinctive of an apostle. Luke 6, 13. And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles. Acts 1, 1, 2 and the first book O Theophilus. I have dealt with all that. Jesus began to do and teach until the day when he was taken up. After he had given commands through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen. Paul had to defend his apostleship on the basis that Christ had appeared to him and called him. Because when Jesus was alive, he was terrorizing Christians. He was making sure that Christians were martyred. He had to defend his actual apostleship by saying this in 1st Corinthians 9:1Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? So that is his substantiation, his evidence that he is an apostle. He has seen Jesus Our Lord. And 1 Corinthians 15:7 9 Paul says Christ appeared to him last of all, last of all, implying that the resurrection appearances establishing apostolic witness had reached their conclusion. So after the apostolic era, early church leaders acknowledged that they did not share the apostles unique authority because no one today can meet the biblical qualifications for apostleship because Jesus has already ascended into heaven or receive from the original apostles. There are no apostles in the New Testament since today. The Bible therefore remains the church's only apostolic authority that still exists today. The idea that new apostles are being ordained today comes from in large part what we referenced just a few minutes ago, this new apostolic reformation. We'll get into what the NAR is. You probably heard about it. Elisa Childers has done a lot of good work on it. Mike Winger has done a lot of good work on it. We'll just do a brief description of what the NAR is in a second. Let me pause, tell you about Legacy Box. Legacy Box is such a cool and unique service. If you've got all different kinds of memories that you don't know what to do with, you don't know how to organize, you don't know how to make sure that they are preserved. Especially if you're moving soon or maybe you're trying to take care of an aging relative. You want to make sure that you can keep those VHS tapes, those pictures, you got to digitize them. You got to save them in the cloud. That's the best way to make sure that you can pass down these memories to the next generation. That's what Legacy Box does. They send you this big cardboard box. You put in all of these, you know, all of your videos and pictures and everything into there. You send it to them and they hand preserve each of these. They digitize everything, the videos, the tapes, the pictures that you have. They organize them, they save them to the cloud, they send that file to you, and then they send you back all of the hard copies of everything. What a great gift to give to yourself, to give to your family, to give to your mom, aunt or uncle. Go to legacybox.com ali they're having an America 250 sale going on right now. Save some money, save your memories. Legacy box.com ally. So the NAR or the New Apostolic Reformation, it's a loosely connected movement within charismatic Christianity. And so it's not a specific denomination with NAR affiliated churches. It is loosely connected and in general they teach that God is restoring the biblical offices of apostles and prophets to lead the church into the present day and into the present day revival. John MacArthur, hero a lot about the dangers of the NAR when he was alive. Another incredible spiritual leader that we lost last year. He said this. In short, he said it is not new, it is not apostolic and it is not a reformation. He warned about issues in the hyper charismatic movement, including NAR in a book that he wrote in 2023 called Strange Fire, the Danger of Offending the Holy Spirit Within Counterfeit Worship. But you know, he had been talking about this for decades of his ministry. He was also in la. That's where a lot of these charismatic leaders have gained popularity over the decades. And really since the sixt, John MacArthur has been showing the difference between a biblically based faith and what the fruit of that looks like. And then this extra biblical anti biblical practice of name it and claim it, supposed manifestations of the Holy Spirit, which he would claim are not manifestations of the Holy Spirit at all. So it's not a single denomination, but many of its leaders emphasize the same things like modern day prophecy, miraculous healing and casting out demons. The idea that apostles have unique authority to govern churches and direct believers. And again, it's not the difference between cessationism and continuationism that we are focusing on today. This is hyper charismatic. This is the belief that in order to have any sort of revival, in order to be legitimate Christianity, we must have these things and we must have modern day apostles and prophets that are basically self appointed lead us into that revival. It must look. According to this loosely associated group of people like Katherine Crick, the movement grew significantly during the 2000s 2010s, fueled in part by the rising popularity and global influence of NAR associated churches like Bethel Church in Reading, California, the International House of Prayer in Kansas City. There is a leader named C. Peter Wagner. He claimed his own apostleship based on modern prophetic declarations, not biblical standards of actually having seen Jesus, but just the idea that he had said some things were going to happen and that they had happened. He pointed to a 2001 apostolic decree as evidence of his apostleship, claiming that God had given him authority to declare to an end to mad cow disease. In Europe. Okay. Nearly a decade later, doctors and veterinarians were still diagnosing the disease in both humans and animals across the the continent. Okay, so a prophet of the Lord, what they actually prophesy will come to pass. And that particular NAR leader prophesied something that was not actually true. Wagner's International Coalition of Apostles further institutionalized modern apostleship through nominations, memberships, annual dues. And this really according to grace to you, that's John MacArthur's ministry reduced what scripture presents as a unique office established by Christ into some kind of credential. Then you have people like Lance Wall now and Bill Johnson. They wrote a book called Invading Babylon. The Seven Mountain Mandate explained how new Christian apostles should advance the gospel in every sphere of society. You've got Che on. He is a leading nar, quote unquote apostle who teaches that the office of apostle continues today. He encourages believers to embrace this apostolic anointing. Bill Heyman is a pioneer of the movement. He had a book called Eternal Church. The Eternal Church, a Prophetic look at the church. Her history, Restoration and Destiny explains how the 21st century church is restoring the truths of early church through not better understanding of the Scriptures. Remember the Reformation that we had 500 plus years ago through Martin Luther? It wasn't new, a new teaching. It wasn't something that was completely revolutionary. But Martin Luther said, hey, we should read this infallible, inerrant word of God and we should stick as closely to that as we possibly can. Okay, this is outside of that. This is saying, no, no. The biblical canon is a limitation on what we must be and do. So this is not the same as the reformation of yore. Crick's ministry reflects a lot of this movement's defining characteristics, including the belief in modern day apostles, prophetic commissioning, so called deliverance ministry. And so let's look at some of these deliverances or what she claims to be deliverances. So this is my second concern. My second concern is the theatrical nature of her exorcisms and faith healings and the fact that there seems to be evidence pointing to them not actually being real. And if that is the case, that is really evil and really, really bad. Even if there is any fake part of this at all that should be disqualifying. So deliverance is a major part of Crick's ministry. In fact, her fame comes in part from extremely theatrical exorcisms that go viral online. And just to define something for you, deliverance typically means like being delivered of an unclean spirit, delivered of an ailment delivered of a sin stronghold, delivered of demonic oppression. And of course, we believe that Jesus is our deliverer, that he delivers us from death, he delivers us from Satan, he delivers us from sin. But typically, Deliverance ministries are predicated on the idea that it must be convulsion, it must be seizing. It must be this kind of theatrical. I won't say that they would say performance, but that's what I would call it. So here's an example of what I'm talking about. Saw 10.

[Guest or Co-host]

I cancel every demonic covenant she made when she did witchcraft. And I declare every spirit attached, every last spirit of witchcraft must leave her on three in Jesus name. 1, 2, 3.

[Alisa Childers]

No, no, she is mine.

[Guest or Co-host]

I detach her from all of that. And I declare every last spirit gone now. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Jesus. Hallelujah.

[Alisa Childers]

Hallelujah. Okay, example two. Katherine Crick is making a guy collapse in the name of deliverance at 11.

[Guest or Co-host]

I cancel that blood covenant now. Thank you, Jesus. I detach him from that blood covenant now. And I command every spirit attached on three. I command you must leave him in Jesus name. One, two, three.

[Alisa Childers]

Okay. There are lots and lots and lots of videos like this. On her own Instagram. There was a woman flailing around on the stage when Catherine Crick was saying that she releases her from the spirit of witchcraft. There are a lot of examples like this. And you might be thinking, understandably, like, what's wrong with this? Don't we see throughout Scripture in the New Testament exorcisms the releasing of demonic power in a person? And we even see convulsions in Scripture. We see this kind of thing. So I want to draw some distinctions between what we see in so many of these videos. Remember back, let's actually play it because it's a voiceover, so I can keep talking while we play it. But one of the first thoughts that we played in her, blowing on the crowd. Okay, I just want to remind you what that looked like when this is also what she is claiming deliverance. She's not declaring anything. We don't know what these people are dealing with. These people look like they're worshiping, look like they're Christians here. They don't look like they're demonically possessed. And she is making sure that they fall, that they fall, that they fall Again. That one guy, he's not falling. Just gotta stand there to make sure he knows that he's supposed to fall. Okay, so this is what that looks like. What are the red flags that I see that tell me that this doesn't look like, from what she is voluntarily showing online, the kinds of exorcisms that we do see in Scripture. So one red flag is that these exorcisms are typically in the videos that she posts, long and drawn out, when the Bible indicates that they are immediate. So mark 1:25 through 26, and Jesus rebuked him, saying, be silent to the unclean spirit and come out of him. And the unclean spirit convulsing him and crying out with a loud voice came out of him. So we do see a convulsion here. We do see a loud voice here. It was immediate. No 1, 2, 3. Like you're talking to a toddler that you're just hoping obeys you by the time you get to three. But an immediate authority and immediate obedience of the unclean spirit. Matthew 17:18. And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him, and the boy was healed instantly. Now, what's interesting about this is not only do we see in the videos that she posts that people are flailing constantly, even after she has declared the demon to come out of them. And so that tells me that they are still being, if this was genuine, okay? While the deliverance didn't work because they're still flailing around, they're still acting like they're possessed by something, they're still of an unsound mind. And so even if you are to say that these exorcisms or that these people are really possessed by demons, even if you are to say demonic exorcisms or what we are supposed to practice today, what's going on with these people who are not healed instantly, that is not what we see indicated in Scripture. But also we see the same people being delivered over and over again in her videos. And she has actually been exposed for healing the same people repeatedly. There is an outlet that I cannot, across the board, always recommend because of some of their reporting, but they do a good job of compiling different examples of people's, like, problematic theology and really digging into the research and giving evidence for the claims that people are making about people. And they compiled these different examples of the same people in different events being exercised by Katherine Crick. And so we'll just go through this. So here's the first example. Catherine Crick uses this girl with the distinctive tattoo right there, the blonde lady being exercised in two different. Two different occasions. Okay? We've got example one. She's apparently being exercised right now. Okay. And then we've also got example two. This is the same lady this is voiceover three. And you can tell she's the same lady because she has a very distinctive tattoo on her eye. Now maybe you're thinking, okay, well, she was possessed by two different demons, and she's being exercised two different times by Katherine Crick. Maybe. Or maybe she is just someone that is reliably very good at acting like she has a demon and that that demon is leaving her. And so she has been used a couple times. And then you have girl number two. There's another woman with distinctive tattoos that has also been used on Crick's videos multiple times and even in other Exorcist videos. Okay, so here's example number one. You've got this video of a woman with a shoulder tattoo. So here she is in one video. In one instance, she's got a distinctive shoulder tattoo. Here's an example of the same person in another video with the same tattoo. You can tell it's the same person. She's also been used in videos by exorcist Bob Larson. And then you see that Crick and Larson use the same person, what some people might call a crisis actor right here. She was also exposed. Crick was also exposed for exercising the same two women two nights in a row at some of her events in Canada. Okay, I guess a very. We're putting up the pictures. There's a couple videos. You can see that they're the same person. You can look at the pictures and decide for yourself. I guess you could say they were exercised of a demon, and then the next night they were, you know, already possessed again, re exercised. We don't see examples of that kind of thing happening in Scripture, but if you were to be very charitable, you could say that, or you could say that some people are tapped to continue to come back to these events to make it seem extremely sensational. A former church member posted his experience to YouTube describing a similar phenomenon. The same women getting delivered over and over again at meetings and people being told they were healed when they didn't think they had saw 12 just at the park.

[Interviewee or Clip Speaker]

I would notice stuff like these six meetings. These same two girls kept screaming out during every deliverance, prayer time, which.

[Alisa Childers]

Which.

[Interviewee or Clip Speaker]

That's a huge part of her format. I'm just noticing these same two girls always screaming out during deliverance. And it's like, well, why aren't they getting delivered? Or why are they getting delivered every single week? Like, did the demons not listen? Is the authority of Christ not here? What's happening?

[Voddie Baucham]

So.

[Interviewee or Clip Speaker]

And then I would notice that she would pray for people with physical ailments and they wouldn't get healed and then she would say, go, it's going to happen as you go. And there's a very seductive, deceptive way of making people accept what I believe are our false signs and wonders.

[Alisa Childers]

I don't even have any commentary to add to that because he did such a good job of pointing out the problems with that. His question of is the authority of Christ. Not really. Here is a really good one because if you recall in Acts and we see the apostles practice demonic, actual demonic deliverance, casting demons out of people, healing people. We read that the people were healed, that the demons were cast out, that these things were actually being accomplished. And we don't read, hey, sometimes they had it, sometimes they didn't. And sometimes God decided to work through them and accomplish these things and sometimes they didn't. And we don't see any indication that they had to convince people that they were healed or they had to tell people, hey, you're gonna feel it. It's kind of like when you go to the doctor's office, it's like, oh, you can't feel the numbing right now. Don't worry, it's gonna kick in. We're just gonna start drilling on your tooth like that. It's not like that. With the power of God, I would actually think, I would actually say that my position, those who believe that cessationists like limit God and we don't believe in the power of God, that my view of the power of God is actually much higher than a lot of the people who believe in the validity of the apostleship of people like Catherine Crick. Because my belief is that God's power is so authoritative, that it is so supreme, that it is so successful that it is actually impossible for it to fail. And so if someone was truly an apostle, which again I believe only existed in the apostolic age and Jesus promised, you're going to cast out demons in my name, they did it, that that was actually going to be accomplished. I don't believe it's this wishy washy thing that apparently we are seen through these so called ministries today. So let's recall what it actually looked like when people were being delivered of demons in scripture. In Mark 1 in the synagogue at Capernaum we read and immediately there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit. And he cried out, what have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are, the Holy One of God. But Jesus rebuked him, saying be silent and come out of him. And the unclean spirit, convulsing him and crying out with a loud voice, came out of him again immediately. In Mark 5, Jesus rids a man of unclean spirits. The man was living among tombs with what seemed like superhuman strength, breaking the chains that bound him. Jesus asks the spirits their name and they reply, legion, for we are many. The demons are cast out into the pigs who then run off the cliff. So we see a few things here that demons make the entities that they possess do illogical things, do crazy things, often violent things against themselves or other people. Here's how the healed man is then described in verse 15, sitting there clothed and in his right mind. And they everyone who was watching was afraid. And so that's what happens when a demon is cast out. It is immediate. Sometimes I guess there's convulsing, sometimes there isn't. The person seems insane and then is of their right mind. It's an immediate transformation. Act 16 as we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit of divination and brought her owners much gained by fortune telling. She followed Paul and us crying out, these men are servants of the most high God who proclaim to you the way of salvation. So it's also interesting these demons know truth. These demons regularly recite what is actually true. And she kept doing this for many days, Scripture says. And then Paul, having become greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And it came out that very hour, immediate and complete. And as far as we know, without fanfare. Also, from what we see, these people are not believers. These people are non Christians. They are being possessed by a demon. And then when they are healed again, they are of the right mind. Now is that the pattern that we are seeing? It seems to me that a lot of the people, like the people who are coming up to her in her like book signing meetings, these people apparently are Christians, even people who attend her church, people who call themselves believers. But even just being in her presence causes seizures and convulsions. And we're calling that deliverance. You don't think that we see a biblical precedence of that? The deliverance ministry of Crick is based on a misreading of scripture. The binding and loosing that faith healers like her say that they're doing is Based on Matthew 16, 18, 19, when Jesus says, I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church in the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. In reality, these keys are not giving Christians the authority to bind or loose anything. That's what Crick believes. She said that before in a sermon, but apply specifically to the churches. So as a Protestant, we say that that is the universal body of believers. And I believe biblically, that's what it is, the universal body of believers, not the institution. So specifically to the church's authority to open or loose the kingdom by preaching the gospel and close or bind the kingdom based on church discipline. That's according to ligonier, the late R.C. sproul's ministry. Vodi Bauckham points out how ridiculous it is to say that you can bind the devil in that way. Psalm 14.

[Voddie Baucham]

So I just want to ask people, you know, when they're binding the devil, right. Like, Satan is a finite being. So first of all, if you're powerful enough to bind the devil. Wow. But secondly, if you're binding him this week, do you call all the other churches and tell them, we got him? Because if they bound him in that church that night, everybody else's sound system should have been perfect everywhere else in the world. Right. And then here's the deal. If you can bind him, why? Just for the service.

[Alisa Childers]

Yeah. This kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier, is that those in this kind of, like, NAR movement claim to believe in the fullness of the power of God, but that the power of God, according to their interpretation, is very capricious. Like, it's very unreliable. It's very fragmented. That you have the power to bind Satan, but he's still at work in all of these other parts of the world. But you have bound, what, like a fraction of him or the particular work that he. You believe that he is doing in that present moment. And so he's trying to make the point there that that's not what that verse actually means, that it's actually something much bigger and more powerful than that. These verses in Matthew have to do with formal decisions about inclusion in the church based on faith and conduct, the persistence of sin and how church deals with that, not these theatrical performances of supposed deliverance. And another big issue that I have is the idea of sowing the seed for deliverance in order to garner financial gain. We'll get into that in a second. Let me pause. Let me tell you about Every Life. Another Pro Life sponsor that I love so much. We use Every Life diapers and wipes in our home. We're actually out of the diaper stage right now, but when our baby gets here in just a few months, we'll be back in that diaper stage and we of course will be relying on Every Life. They really work. They're soft, they're clean, great materials. But I also love they donate thousands of diapers to pregnancy centers across the country and they make sure that these moms, these babies are being served so that they can make the most life affirming choice. And they also have all different kinds of things. They've got great wipes, they've got baby shampoo and body wash and lotion that's super safe for baby skin. They really do have awesome stuff. Go to everylife.com use code ALI10. You'll get 10 off your first order. That's everylife.com code ALI10. Beyond teaching that deliverance and freedom from spiritual oppression are accessed through prophetic keys to bind and loose, Crick also encourages followers to quote sow seeds of faith. You hear this very often. You've heard this from Paula White too. That is to give money to her ministry with the expectation that doing so will release God's blessings. So it's called seed faith teaching. It's the belief that financial giving functions as a seed that God will repay with blessings, often in the form of financial prosperity, healing or some kind of breakthrough. It's rooted in this biblical principle that people reap what they sow. That is biblical, but it applies that principle to monetary giving in a way that promises material material rewards and financial benefits or financially benefits the ministries promoting it. Seed faith teaching is part of the broader prosperity gospel, which teaches that God intends believers to experience health and material wealth in this life. And actually that is a guarantee of having the right kind of faith and sufficient faith in God, even though that is the opposite of what Jesus teaches over and over again, the opposite of the experience of the disciples and the and the apostles. But that is what the health and wealth preachers believe. And that's what they assert, that that is a guarantee that we are entitled to as Christians. People like Joel Osteen, T.D. jakes, Joyce Meyer, they all push that kind of message. And Crick teaches that while we can pray for deliverance, it may not come unless that financial seed is sown, unless you are donating to our ministry. 7 so if you'd like to sow,

[Guest or Co-host]

you can go to 5fchurch.org give also, if you were delivered today, I encourage you to sow a special seed to seal this deliverance. As it says in Psalms that every covenant, there is a sacrifice when and when every covenant's made. So there's a new covenant of freedom that God's made with you today. So sow this seed.

[Alisa Childers]

Crick even tells a mother whose child is supposedly writhing in the control of a demon that a 10% tithe isn't enough. She has to give more money for her son to be delivered.

[Guest or Co-host]

Thought 18 God is going to free him completely. There are different keys to receive complete freedom. And what happens is the more that we entangle ourselves with witchcraft and psychics and things like that, it's like a more complex deliverance. So sometimes it's not just about the commanding the demons, but there's other keys that need to be unlocked. And one of them is to sow seeds. I've been sowing 10% of everything that comes through my hands for the last two years. 10%. God's saying more because 10% done is with what's what, what's God? So now we need to sow specifically for his deliverance. The anointing is working right now. You need to be open to God to renounce more things. And even when God puts on your heart to even sow a seed right now online or something, you know, like right now, this is what God wants you to do. Be open to, renounce, and he's going to be free completely. I declare in Jesus name.

[Alisa Childers]

Okay, you can see she kind of picks her head up and she's like, okay, I'm moving on. You heard that, that she needs to give more than 10% of her tithe in order for her son to be healed. And some deliverance is more complicated than the others. Chapter and verse, chapter and verse. Where do you see that? It actually doesn't seem complicated at all. Again, complicating and disempowering the power of God, like his authority isn't enough. He needs you. He's like a slot machine or he's like, you know, one of those claw machines that you have to put in enough money over and over again to hopefully get the claw of, you know, to grab onto deliverance or healing. And you got to do it the right way at the right time in order to make God satisfied enough. Like that formula is not in scripture. It's interesting that she says all of this. Sow the seed to seal your deliverance. Sow more of a seed to get healing, and then it says this on her website. I just found this on the home page of her church's website. It says, beware of scammers. Apostle Catherine will never DM anyone, send emails or leave a comment asking for money, or telling you that God says you have to sow a seed. That last part. Or telling you that God said you have to sow a seed. Okay. The scammers will ask you to sow into an orphanage for your deliverance healing or to buy anointing oil. Now, the reason people are being scammed by that is because it sounds like something she would say. And the reason why it sounds like something she would say, it's because she said things like that before. So a seed to secure your deliverance. We have. We have a little bit of an inside joke in. In our house between my husband and me. One time we were talking about one of our children. I don't know, we're talking about the plans for the day. She was probably 4, and she picked up. We didn't know she was listening. She picked up on the fact that we were talking about her. And she goes, is her name me?

[Interviewee or Clip Speaker]

Me?

[Alisa Childers]

Is her name me? And so now whenever we see someone that seems like they're talking about themselves as they're describing something, I'm like, is her name me? And that's what maybe Katherine Crick needs to ask herself when she reads this on the home page of her own website that describes scammers talking about sowing a seed to seal the deliverance. Is her name me? It is like Crick's teachings on binding and losing. The belief in seed sewing for deliverance is based on a biblical misinterpretation. Crick uses the man healed from leprosy and Luke 5 as a proof text for this doctrine. And a proof text is like, okay, I've already decided that this thing is true. I'm going to try to go into the text and find something that can support my belief. She says, in Luke 5:14, Jesus ordered the man with leprosy to tell no one that he was healed. But he says, go and show yourself to the priest and make an offering for a purification, just as Moses commanded, as a testimony to them that this is the work of the Messiah. So Jesus commanded him to sow an offering for his healing. That was his key. Amen. But that's actually not what the passage says. So that's what she says the passage says. That's not what the passage says. Luke notes that the leprosy left the man immediately, not after he sowed a seed. So you actually read in Luke 5, 11 through 14, while Jesus was in one of the cities, there came a man full of leprosy. And when he saw Jesus, he fell on his face and begged him, lord, if you will, you can make me clean. And Jesus stretched out his hand and touched him, saying, I will be clean. And immediately the leprosy left him and he charged him to tell no one. But go and show yourself to the priest and make an offering for your cleansing as Moses commanded for a proof to them. Okay, so I've said this before. These people who are teaching false things, they are betting that you don't read your own Bible. They are betting upon your ignorance. They are using their supposed apostolic authority to make you ignorant of what the word of God says so that you continue to go to them as your only source of truth and healing. Okay, she said that Luke 5 said something. Luke 5 doesn't say that. And she used and misinterpreted the Bible, misapplied the Bible, completely misspoke the Bible in order to get donations, in order to get monetary gain. That is evil. I find that just as evil as Gavin Newsom a few years ago. You using the verse love your neighbor as yourself to advertise for paid for abortions in the state of California for those who live in red states where abortion had been strongly prohibited. I see this as justice evil. Very, very careful. You have to be so careful because teachers are held to a very high standard. The requirement to make an offering to the priest was not a condition to be healed. It was so that he could be readmitted into society. As R.C. sproul notes, he wasn't just asking for healing, he was asking to be restored because a leper was seen as unclean. And so healing of the leper. A sermon from R.C. sproul. He says the leper was asking for more than to be healed. He was asking to be healed of a disease that made him an outcast from the covenant community of Israel. Lepers had to live outside the camp, outside the community, outside the church as it were, and outside of the town. Leviticus 14 contains lengthy instructions on the offering to be made after one is cleansed of leprosy, involving an eight day cleansing cleansing ritual. So it was only after completing this ritual that the leper could be considered clean and reenter society. That is why Jesus encourages him to go to the priest. It was never a condition for his healing, as we obviously see in that. That in that passage. So not only is the sewing seeds doctrine Based on a misreading of scripture. I would say a willful misapplication and misinterpretation of Scripture. It also contradicts Jesus's commandments elsewhere. When Jesus sends out his disciples to preach the gospel, to heal the sick and deliver people from demons, he specifies that they are not to charge people money. Whoa. Matthew 10, 7, 8. And proclaim as you go, saying the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons you received without pain, give without pay seems abundantly clear. We remember that Paul was a tent maker. That he was happy to receive gifts and help and resources from the churches, but he also didn't want to burden them. He didn't feel that he had to be, that he had to be entitled to these things, that he was willing to make his own living. He didn't want anything to be a hindrance to the giving of the gospel, to the preaching of the Gospel. There's also the issue of the cult like adoration that Katherine Crick has received that I find to be very troubling. Again, no biblical precedent for it. It should give all of us pause. We'll get to that. Just a second. Let me tell you about our last sponsor for the day. That's Concerned Women for America. Do you wish that there was something that you could do when, for example, a boy steps onto the field to compete against your daughter's team, or when her school promotes sexually explicit content, suppresses faith, or teaches radical political ideas as fact, you are not powerless. Concerned Chris Concerned Women for America is the nation's largest Christian public policy organization for women. They equip families to stand for truth, protect their children and make their voices heard. CWA provides Christian women with practical tools to understand seven core issues. Contact elected officials, organize locally and fight back against policies that threaten faith, family and freedom. As the midterm elections approach, you need to get involved in cwa. You need to advocate in your community for what's good and right and true. Go to concerned women.org ally. You can download your free guide today. That is concerned women.org ally. There is so much we probably could have done. A five part series and maybe we'll continue on this. But it was just so important for me that you could get all of this information in one place. Because I'm concerned about how this person is affecting people in my audience. How she is affecting people, how she is affecting your friends, how she is affecting your family members who have bought into the idea that this is what Christianity might must look like. And this is what healing must look like. Crick's followers often display this kind of cult like level of personal devotion. Many refer to her simply as Mama. She had a birthday celebration that was posted on social media. Congregants from her church formed a line to honor her individually, showering her with praise, bowing before her, placing gifts at her feet. Okay, kind of like the wise men to Jesus when he was born. Strange.

[Guest or Co-host]

I love you so much, mama.

[Alisa Childers]

Happy early birthday. It is such an honor to serve you. I honor you as your spiritual daughter. I love you and you're my favorite. You're my favorite person.

[Guest or Co-host]

Happy birthday, Mama. I love you so much. I. I cherish this ministry so much.

[Alisa Childers]

I love you so much. Thank you for laying down your life that we may live and be equipped and transformed. So I honor you. I love you so much. Happy birthday. God bless you.

[Guest or Co-host]

I love you.

[Alisa Childers]

Happy birthday. God bless you.

[Guest or Co-host]

Thank you. It's an honor to serve your apostle Catherine and I love you so much. Happy birthday. Birthday.

[Alisa Childers]

Okay, so that goes on and on. You've got people crying. I mean, this is veneration. Okay? This is so far, so far outside of what is appropriate for Christianity. Like, you even see Paul talking about this. Like he says, don't worry about who you're following. You're not supposed to brag about that. First Corinthians 3, 5. What then is Apollo's, what is Paul servants through whom you believed. Actually, if we back up in verse four, for when one says I follow Paul and another I follow Paulos, are you not being merely human? He's talking about acting like a spiritual child and still acting as if they are of the flesh, as if they are not Christians. That's what it says in verses one through three. So then he's going on here and saying these divisions about who follows who and bragging about that it's not of the Lord. He says in verse five, what then is Apollo's, what is Paul servants through whom you believed as the Lord assigned to each? I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything but only God who gives the growth. He who plants and he who waters are one. And each will receive his wages according to his labor. For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building. And then he goes on to give glory to the God. To give glory to God. Yeah, we are a part of this. God doesn't need us. We don't need our names known that is the opposite of what we are seeing here. And again, this is all done in the name of her being an apostle. This is all justified by her so called apostolic authority. The New Testament warns over and over again about false teachers and what they look like. I think about second Timothy three. You know, we talk about this passage a lot. We talk about it a lot when it comes to those who are so called progressive teachers that teach the opposite of what Christ taught, but it also applies to all manner of false teacher. And I want to start in verse five, but read the whole passage. Having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power over and over again. We actually see people deny the power of God, that God can't work because you haven't done this, you haven't donated enough, you haven't prayed enough. Oh yeah, I cast out that demon. It's still there. Came back the next night, you're still convulsing even though I've already cast out that demon. Denying the power of God. Avoid such people, for among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of truth. He goes on to say, their folly will be plain to all. I do believe that's what we're seeing here. Matthew 24:24 for false Christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders so as to lead astray if possible, even the elect. First John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit for test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world. Galatians 6 tells us what the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Love, joy, peace, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness. In what? Self control. Self control, that is the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Christians are never commanded to chase miracles or to submit themselves to self appointed apostles. We are certainly not called to declare ourselves apostles, to use our authority to gain fame, to gain influence, to gain power. That is not the spirit of revival. That is not the evidence of a reawakening. We are actually commanded to be like the Bereans, to look at every practice, to every doctrine that is being taught, every sermon, every podcast episode, weigh it against the word of God and say, is this true? God has been so gracious to give us clarity, to give us the authority through His Word to tell us what is good, right and true. We examine every teaching against the word of God. We hold fast to the faith that was delivered to the actual apostles. Praise God for that. Praise God for that. So I want it to be completely unequivocal. I think that this is a false ministry. I think it's a dangerous ministry. I don't think it's something that you need to follow. And I want you to share this episode with the friends that you have. Maybe they're on the fence. Maybe they're confused. Maybe they've been duped by this. And I also want to pray for Katherine Crick because I think that this is a dangerous place to be spiritually. I do. All right, that's all we've got time for today. We will be back here on Friday.