← Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
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Judeo Christian. Is it helpful terminology or is it heresy that we should abandon? The Right Online has been debating this for the past couple of weeks, and I am going to wade in. What does the Bible actually say about this term? We've got all of this and much more on today's episode of Relatable. Hey, y'. All. Welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend, that you're having a great start to your week as always. I gotta kick off the week telling you some really, really good news. Maybe you've just been hit with bad news, maybe personally, or maybe you're just scrolling through social media and you're like, can things get any worse? There is a silver lining in all of it, and that is that God's eternal plan of redemption is going off without a hitch, without hesitation, without inhibition. Nothing is holding him back. Nothing takes him aback. Nothing. Nothing takes God by surprise. He's never looking down and wondering, how the heck is this happening? And what am I gonna do? How am I gonna come in and clean up the mess? That's not how God works. He is completely sovereign over all of it, working all things out for the good of those who love him and who are called according to his purpose. And we're not promised that we're gonna have health and prosperity and healing here in this life. Sometimes that happens, and we praise God for when it does. But we are guaranteed that we will have the fullness of satisfaction and healing one day in heaven if by faith we have been saved in Christ. And that is the really good news. God's eternal plan of redemption is always going off without a hitch. He is seeking and saving the lost. There is not one sheep in his flock that he is not going to rescue. Because nothing can inhibit his power. Nothing can stop his will. One of my favorite verses is job 42, 2, that God's will cannot be thwarted. There is no politician, no election, no major news event, no act of war, no nothing goes on that could ever inhibit God's purposes. He's going to accomplish it all. So that's the really good news. That's the good news in our own personal life. That is also the good news of the universe. His eternal plan of redemption is going off without a hitch. If you don't know what to do next, just do the next right thing in faith, with excellence and for the glory of God. The next right thing in this next moment, in faith, with excellence and for the glory of God. All right, we're gonna get into some controversies today. Some Theological controversies. I when theology seeps into politics and culture and starts to characterize the conversations that are going on online. So we're a little bit late to this. But as we do, we never feel like we're tied to the news cycle and we have to talk about a topic as soon as everyone else is talking about it. We like to let it marinate a little bit. We like to talk about it as a team. I like to talk about it with my husband. I like to really try to grasp what people are saying, what the perspectives are, and then try to bring as much clarity to the conversation as possible. And that is certainly true when it comes to the topic of Judeo Christian or you Judeo Christianity. This has been a hot topic for a long time. I've talked about my view on Israel, which is a very contentious topic, has become, I think, too contentious and too central to our conversations and the cultural and political sphere. But you can go back and you can listen to past episodes that I've done. I very clearly laid out my position. Even though people online like to project something onto me that isn't true. It's all out there. So we'll link some of those past episodes. But today I want to talk about this concept of Judeo Christianity, which some people say is just completely offensive that we should never say because it's an oxymoron and it's been invented by the Zionists in the past a hundred years to try to push some pro Israel agenda, yada, yada yada. Sometimes y' all are just thinking too hard. You'll just think it too hard about things, then you end up on the other side like it's full circle, horseshoe, stupid. And so we're going to try to pull back from that and we're going to try to have a rational conversation about what this really means. Means. Is it really as scary as some people say online? Um, but before we get into that, I just want to remind you, if you want clarity, if you want courage, if you want to be edified, if you want to have fellowship with like minded Christian women, you got to come to share the arrows. It's October 10th, Dallas, Texas, Y'. All. It's going to be so good. We've got our first relate a bro speaking, y'. All, we've got Casti Hin. He's going to be amazing. If you don't know who Costi Hinn is, we've done episodes with him in the past. We also talked about him on last Wednesday's episode. We've got Elisa Childers, we've got Natasha Crane, we've got Rosaria Butterfield, we've got Grace, Anna Castleberry, Audrey Brogy. It's going to be theology, it's going to be apologetics, it's going to be encouragement. It's going to be motherhood, singleness, how to be a Christian woman in every single sphere that you occupy with Shane and Shane leading worship, Yours truly will be speaking as well. 37 weeks pregnant. Pray for me, y'. All. Share the arrows.com get your tickets today. That's Share the arrows.com all right, let's get into it, y'.
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Let's get into this controversy of Judeo Christian in that terminology. Is it heresy to say this word, this hyphenated term Judeo Christian, or is it just a historical reality that again, people are thinking too hard about? So there's an ex post from West Hoff that kind of sparked this debate. But his post was really in response to the debate that's already been ongoing, but it reignited this conversation, especially, especially among people on the right who identify as Christian. So let me read you what his post is. He said so much noise online regarding the term Judeo Christian, guys in academia, it's simply the term that describes the combined corpus of Old and New Testament. So the biblical canon, the Jewish heritage of the Hebrew scriptures combined with the New Testament. That's it. I know you want there to be some conspiracy, but there isn't. That's the way we're using it. It has nothing to do with geopolitics or a one world. You know, these days, the circle of people who are non conspiratorial, who traffic insanity, who try to understand what things actually mean rather than looking for a hidden meaning in every single thing. That circle is small. And so whenever we see people inserting rationality and inserting true biblical truth into a conversation, we want to elevate those people. Westhoff is a great resource. We've had him on the show a couple times. You can go back and listen to those episodes. So he's referring to a popular talking point in America first and anti Israel Christian circles. Some of the major proponents of this theory I would call like the Theo bro hyper patriarchy, right? They would call this another religion Judeo Christian and a demonic heresy. Another example is a political theorist and author, Stephen Wolf. He said this on Acts in 2024. He said Judeo Christian values, quote unquote, means you stand reflectively and respectfully for the demon prayers. Okay? While many X users wrote in support of Huff's recent post, agreeing that Judaism and Christianity have a shared foundation in the Old Testament. There are other people who point out that Huff's framing of the term is purely academic, ignores the real world context, and they would say the damage that it, that it causes. So let me take a quick pause and tell you about our first sponsor for the day. And that is Good Ranchers, y'. All National Grilling Month. It's not going to last that much longer. It's really just a few more days. And so you only have a few more days to take advantage of the sale that Good Ranchers has on all of their American meat. And that is $50 off your order. That is a good chunk of change when you go to goodranchers.com Alli if you don't already know which crazy if you don't. I've been talking about Good Ranchers for five years because we love them so. But Good Ranchers is all American meat. So many of these boxes that you can order, you can subscribe to that, you know, send you beef, send you steak, send you chicken, all kinds of stuff. They're getting that imported meat from abroad and we just don't know the quality of it. We don't really know where it's coming from. 80% of the craft beef that's in a grocery store is actually imported from abroad. Even if it says Made in the usa, the regulation states that all you have to do is package it, put it in plastic in the usa, then you can say, say it's Made in the usa. Really, it's only at Good Ranchers that I know of that you can guarantee that all of your seafood, all of your chicken, all of your hot dogs and beef is all from an American farmer ranch. You should put America first, not just in how you vote, but also in how you spend your money and how you eat. Go to good ranchers.com use code ALLY. You'll get that $50 off just for a few more days. Good ranchers.com code ALLY. Okay, so some people don't like this argument. Here's an example of someone online. I don't know that this person on AX is very popular, but I thought that this was a good summary of what this side of the debate thinks. Thug Life. Calvin's got a picture of John Calvin wearing sunglasses. Is the profile picture says. It's like saying Muslim Christian face palm face palm emoji or Hindu Christian. Here's what the Bible says. Do not be bound together with unbelievers for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship is light with darkness? Or what harmony has Christ with Belial? Or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? It goes on and on. Second Corinthians 6:14 through 16 is what that user is referencing there. We've got Jordan Peterson also, who is contributing to this conversation. He has really stepped out of the public eye for health issues, but he has kind of inserted himself, reinserted himself into public dialogue and he spoke up about this particular topic and he said this. He said with regard to Judeo Christian the Ten Commandments are Jewish. The great stories of the Old Testament are Jewish. The Jews developed the idea of subsidiarity as alternative to tyranny and slavery. The Jews established the cultural preconditions for the rise of universal literacy. The fate of Israel at the hands of the Islamists is the fate of the West. The rising tide of antisemitism sickens me. Those of you engaging in it for your oh so moral reasons, you are despicable, he says. And remember, you proud Christians objecting in all of your purity to the term Christ himself was a Jew. And then again, on the other side of it, we've got Jack Posobic. He's a conservative cultural commentator and he said this is not what Christians believe. He is responding to Jordan Peterson in particular. And then you've got another popular conservative account, mostly peaceful memes, who says Abraham was Christian, Moses was Christian, David was Christian. Jack Posobic says Adam and Noah were also Christian. And then Joseph Spurgeon echoes this view. He says the combined corpus of Old and New Testaments is Christian. The whole Bible points to Christ. If what Wes Huff says is true, it's at best unnecessary to say Judeo Christian. But what it really does is try to put Judaism on level with Christianity. And then again, the other side of this Owen Strand. He says on Jesus the Jew. Jesus wasn't a generic man with distant ties to Judaism. Jesus was Jewish born and Jewish bread. Jesus was the incarnate Jewish fulfillment of all promises made to Israel. That second Corinthians 1:20 in the age to come, Jesus is the root of David. Revelation 5:5 I just want to give you some more solid people who are representing this side of things. Mike Winger, whom we just had on recently very popular episode. Go back and listen to or watch that if you haven't already. Mike Winger says Jesus was Jewish. This is not a political statement, it is a theological one. Ignoring his Jewishness takes needful context away from his teachings. He is The Son of God. But ignoring the Jewish context of this idea leaves people open to treating him like a pagan son of God. With its Jewish context, we see this as a claim to be the Son or God the Son. Without its Jewish context, you can't make right sense of Jesus as the prophet who is to come. And I won't read the entire X post because it's long, but it's a good one. You can go find it on X. And that is of course true. And I think a very poignant point that he makes that in order to understand Jesus as the fulfillment of prophecy, in order to understand the titles that we ascribe to Jesus, you have to understand him as the fulfillment specifically of Jewish prophecy. Who entered into a Jewish culture, talked to mostly Jewish people in Jewish terminology that they would understand. Dan Bermawi. He is the author of a book, Islam, Israel and the west, and he makes the argument in his ex post that Christianity can't really exist as a standalone religion detached from Judaism. If you remove its Jewish foundation, what remains is another pagan religion. Western civilization represents the closest humanity has come to embodying the kingdom of God, the moral vision that emerged from the Jewish and Christian understanding of God. So I don't think I would go so far as to say that if you remove the Jewish foundation, Christianity becomes another pagan religion. But I do take his point and understand that without the context of the Jewish foundation, without the context of God as the sole creator of the heavens and the earth, the God who created us in his image, which was before Christianity entered into the world, an exclusively Jewish idea, then we lose all context for what Jesus actually, who Jesus actually was, and what he came to do. So where did this term Judeo Christian actually come from? The term Judeo Christian is more of a modern addition to our lexicon. We don't see this exact terminology of Judeo Christian in the Bible, but we use it in the more neutral sense. Most have heard it in a more political sense, but in the academic way it is used. As Wes Huff, as West Huff explained, it originated in the 19th century to refer to Christians who had converted to Judaism. It was used in an 1821 letter by evangelical missionary to Jews Alexander McCall, who wrote, from all I can see, there is but one way to bring about the object of the society, that is by erecting a Judeo Christian community, a city of refuge where all who wish to be baptized could be supplied with a means of. Of earning their bread. Okay, so that's just telling you it's not really that important. Like what everything is meant by that. But that's kind of telling you where it originated in our modern language. There's a religion professor at Trinity College, his name is Mark Silk. He says that really this idea of Judeo Christian being a political term didn't come around until about the 1930s. People began to use it in opposition to antisemitism. It was used in these interfaith organizations. He says that the term became more common during World War II, but it really became more popular afterward as pastors and politicians and pundits seized on the term to mobilize the spiritual forces of America against godless communism. And so you had people saying we have to have the Jews and Christians who at least agree on the Old Testament to come together and fight for the created order in a societal and political sense. He quotes a few different people from mid century. For example, then President elect Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1952 speech who said our form of government has no sins unless it is founded in a deeply felt religious faith. And I don't care what it is. Eisenhower says with us, of course it is the Judeo Christian concept, but it must be a religion that all men are created equal. This historian says that in the 1970s and beyond, as the term Abrahamic began to be used in more progressive circles, the Christian right clung to Judeo Christian, which is just an interesting distinction. So what is the biblical perspective on this? Like, should we be using the term Judeo Christian? Does it help clarify anything? Is it something that's just neutral? Should we be thinking about it in the political sense? Is it that big of a deal at all? I've got a perspective on this, but the Bible also has a perspective on this, which matters a lot more. Let me pause. Let me tell you about our next sponsor before we get into that. And that is crowd health. We love crowd health, we use crowd health. We know how complicated and stressful health insurance can be. 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Join Crowd Health.com code ally. So I think that this is a really interesting thing to debate and we want to make sure that we are on the same page and defining our terms as we are debating things like Judeo Christian. I mean, I don't have to tell you guys who listen to me and watch me that there absolutely is a rise to anti Jewish hatred, especially on the right. We know it's existed on the left and it is thinly veiled as you know, criticism of Israel, Israel's government, which I think is totally legitimate. I think we can criticize fairly any and every government when we think the policies are destructive or depraved, they don't align with our values. Values. I have no problem with that. And I do think that we should always, unapologetically put the interest and the well being of America and Americans first. I make absolutely no caveats to that. That is just true. That is my philosophy about politics and that is my worldview. And also, of course, I unapologetically believe and say on every episode that Jesus is the only way, the only truth, the only life, that no one comes to the Father except through him. But the Israel derangement syndrome, the Jewish Derangement syndrome that has infected the minds of so many people, that they see Jewish people behind every, every closed door, that they're behind every conspiracy, that they're pulling the strings of power in every single direction, that everything somehow, every tragedy, every injustice comes back to Israel. That is just beyond the pale, that is beyond logic, that is beyond reason. I think that there is something spiritual there because we see that same pattern over and over again in so many cultures throughout history and that is anti Christian. Okay, so we can debate Judeo Christian and whether you should use it, whether it's a helpful term, whether you think it's an accurate term or a biblical term, that's fine. But let's not pretend that this debate is happening in a vacuum outside of the context of people's Israel and Jewish derangement syndrome that is unfortunately just like blinded them to reality as they are looking for the secret things that are truly going on behind the Scenes Just a strange phenomenon that we see going on right now. The truth is that Judeo Christian is not in scripture. I really don't care if someone uses that or just says Christian. I am okay with simply saying, yeah, the Christian idea that we are all made in God's image like the Christian idea of anything that is in the Bible. Because the biblical canon is now a Christian book altogether. However, Judeo Christian is also an accurate way to describe values that both Jews and Christians hold. Because of our shared belief in the principles of the Old Testament, namely the creation order that we see in Genesis 1 through 3, Scripture gives us no reason whatsoever to sever Christianity from its Jewish roots. Jesus came as Israel's Messiah, the fulfillment of the law and the prophets. And the gospel came According to Romans 1:16 to the Jew first and also to the Greek Christianity. It is absolutely true and inarguable, is rooted in God's covenant with Israel, which Christ fulfilled. Matthew 5:17. Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. Jesus said, I have come not to abolish them, but to fulfill them. Jesus was born under the Jewish law, given to Moses in the Old Testament and came to those who were under the law to Jews. That was his primary mission field. That's what he reiterated over and over again. Galatians 4:4, 5. But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his son born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. So good news also to the Gentiles. This is explained so clearly also in Ephesians, really all of Ephesians, but especially in Ephesians 2 and 3, talking about the uncircumcision versus the circumcision and how we have been reconciled in Christ. The dividing wall of hostility not only between us as sinners and holy God, but also between Jews and Gentiles. It has been abolished because of the blood of Christ who covers us all. And that is really, really good news. And so this was a common theme that we see throughout the New Testament and preaching to the Jews, Jews and also to the Gentiles. It is the same Messiah. It's the same plan of salvation. It is the same Gospel. And yet we read over and over again, Jesus was a Jew. He came first to the Jews to fulfill Jewish law. Jesus told a Samaritan woman this in John 4:22, you worship what you do not know. We worship what we know. For salvation, he says, is from the Jews, Gentile Believers are grafted into Israel's covenant story. Paul describes believing Gentiles as wild olive branches grafted into Israel, Israel's olive tree. Romans 11:17 through 21. But if some of the branches were broken off and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among others, and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in. That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief. But you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branch branches, neither will he spare you. Talking about the Jews and the Gentiles, they're really all of Romans 9 through 11 really talks about this. That again, everyone is saved by faith in the same Jesus. And yet the Jews have this privilege of having access to the prophecies and to the understanding of the law that gives all of the proper context for the good news of Jesus fulfilling the law and becoming the once and for all sacrifice and cleansing on the cross. So Scripture presents one historically grounded unfolding story of redemption centered on Christ. Okay, it's not two separate stories. It's not like God was like, ah, gosh, I didn't see this coming. Now I've got a plan B. It's Jesus and this new religion over here. Forget about that. His eternal plan of redemption is going off without a hitch and has been since the first molecule was created. Before that, that before all of time, God's eternal plan of redemption has been going off without a hitch. It is unhindered, it is uninterrupted, it is unchanging. R.C. sproul wrote this, the late theologian. From the opening chapters of Genesis to the end of the Book of Revelation, the entire dynamic of redemption takes place within the broader setting of real space and time, of concrete history. The historical character of Judeo Christianity is what markedly distinguishes it from all forms of of mythology. A myth finds its value in its moral or spiritual application, while its historical reality remains insignificant. The Bible is the record of God's historic works of redemption within a context of space and time. So true. Such a fascinating way to put that. Take the gospel in its message out of the context of history. And Christianity is destroyed all together. So that actually seems to echo the expose that I was reading earlier from the author of that book that I thought maybe was too far, that if you take Christianity out of its Jewish context, then it becomes something else entirely. R.C. sproul, whose intellect and theological understanding I respect very much and would defer to here, it seems to say the same thing, like you lose it all together. And it does seem, it does seem to be that that is what people are trying to do. They are trying to distinguish entirely Christianity from Judaism. And you cannot, when you serve a Jewish savior and a God who does not, not who does not go back on his promises, one plan of salvation through Jesus Christ for Jews and Gentiles and every single person that does not negate the very real Jewish context, Jewish history, Jewish principles that are shared because of the biblical canon, because of the history of who God actually is. And you know what's interesting? I see this a lot in the political context when it comes specifically to our foundation. Like, you'll see people say, oh, don't say we have Judeo Christian roots. Don't say it was a Judeo Christian constitution or founding documents. None of the, none of the founding fathers were Jewish. Well, you know, it's interesting. A lot of the people I see saying that are what you call trad cath. A lot of the people I see pushing back against this Judeo Christian terminology moniker are Catholic themselves. So if we are going to say we can't call it Judeo Christian because the founders weren't Jewish, okay. Well, we're also not going to call it Catholic Christian because the founders weren't Catholic. Like they were Protestant, that they were Protestant. So if we want to talk about exactly the belief system and the worldview of the founders and of the people who wrote our founding documents and the founding charters for the colonies, they were specifically Protestant Christians. Okay. And so if we're going to get into this debate of, oh, who was actually represented and what was the belief system represented at the founding, we can only use that terminology. Okay, let's start using Protestant Christians. You want to go with Calvinist? We could do that if you want to get really specific about what most of the founders actually believed about the sovereignty of God and the plan of salvation. When people are saying Judeo Christian, they're not saying that some of the founders were Jewish. They were saying we have these shared principles of people, people, people be made by a God whose power and knowledge transcends ours. A God who gave us inalienable rights because we were made in his image. Because unlike any plant and animal, any other part of creation, we are special. We have an eternal soul. And therefore we have been given rights that are unalienable. The government cannot take them away arbitrarily. These are foundational principles that we see in Genesis 1 through 11 that, yes, both the Jewish faith and the Christian faith share. That is not people trying to say that Christianity and Judaism are the same. It's not people trying to rewrite history about what the founders actually believed. It's saying the Old Testament. Like we both gain inspiration from that and we don't compromise on the fact that Jesus is the only way, the only messiah for everyone. I just think you're on dangerous ground when you start demonizing and negating a key part of Jesus's identity. The guy that you say you worship wouldn't be me, couldn't be me. Okay, let me go ahead and pause. I'll tell you about our next sponsor for the day first, and that is EveryLife. Every Life is America's pro life diaper company. And I love EveryLife. We have been using their diapers and wipes and their products for years. Of course, we're out of the diaper stage temporarily right now. We had a small gap for the first time since 2019 where we're not doing any diapers or any pull ups or anything. But we're about to be back in it. We're about to be in that newborn stage come fall and we will be using all of our Every Life products because they work, y'.
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All.
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I would not be telling you about Every Life if these diapers did not work. If they weren't clean materials, if they weren't soft, if they weren't durable, if they didn't last, then I wouldn't be advertising for them them. But they do. And really the most beautiful part about this company is that they donate all of these diapers. They donate millions of diapers every year to pregnancy centers across the country so that these moms who are thinking about choosing Life or not, that they can have one extra reason to feel supported. They can realize, okay, I'm going to be taken care of. My baby is going to be taken care of. I'm not alone. That's what these pregnancy centers do for these women. And then when we donate or when Every Life donates these diapers, that's another way for these pregnancy centers listeners and these moms in crisis to feel supported. And you can be a part of that just by buying your diapers and wipes from every life. If you go to everylife.com and use code ALI10, you'll save 10 on your first order. That's everylife.com code ALI10. Okay, let's go ahead and get into voicemails. We've got a lot of interesting questions that you guys have today. I talked about about female genital mutilation in Islamic cultures, even here in America last week. So I've gotten some questions about, okay, female genital mutilation versus what is widely accepted, at least in Western society, and that is circumcision. Is there a difference? Let's hear from Alex. This is voicemail number one.
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Hi, Ali, My name is Alex. I'm a huge fan of relatable, and I've been listening since 2019. I. I just watched your episode where you went into the topic of female genital mutilation in Islam. Is there a difference between female genital mutilation that's practiced by much of Islam and the practice of circumcision that was commanded by God in the Old Testament? I understand in the New Testament, circumcision was no longer requirement under the new covenant, but it is something that is still widely practiced in the US and typically not considered, you know, male genital mutilation. I would love to hear your thoughts about it, and I hope to hear back from you.
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Yeah, this is a totally fair question. And like I said, I've gotten a few messages about it. I think this has become more of a topic that has been discussed recently, although I know there's been a lot of people that have discussed this for a long time, but especially with Maha and people thinking more holistically in certain start starting to question things of, like, wait, why do we go through these standard procedures, whether it's the vaccines given to newborns or whether it's the circumcision done to newborn boys, and obviously there are complications. So even beyond the ethical question, like, there are considerations that people have. You introduce the possibility of infection in the hospital. There could be a botched circumcision. Those things happen. Any kind, anytime you have any kind of medical procedure, there's the potential for risk. And of course, there are parents who want to mitigate that risk, especially the first few days of a child's life. So that is part of the conversation. The other question, though, is the one that Alex brought up, which is a good one. Is this any different than female genital mutilation? Well, the procedures are very different. What is actually happening? Without going into a ton of detail, but as we talked about last week, female genital mutilation is either like the sewing up of the. The vagina, which obviously causes all kinds of complications during sexual intercourse when she is A woman and Islam, unfortunately can be earlier than that. But also in childbirth, it causes all kinds of complications. And that it is also can be the removal of the clitoris because it is the belief in some of these cultures that a woman feeling any kind of sexual pleasure is immoral, it's wrong, it makes her are dirty. And all different kinds of problems can come from that because that is how God created her body to function. These things aren't bad. Um, now of course, when we look to Christianity and we look to the circumcision that was required eight days after a boy's birth, we can ask the same question, but like, is this okay, or is this something that is mutilation? But it seems that God created the body for this. At least how it was practiced in the Old Testament times to not be be mutilation, to not be something that causes complications, that causes sexual dysfunction, that can cause infertility, and that can cause long term mutilation and pain the way that female quote unquote circumcision or female genital mutilation can. Now there is an argument for how it's done today. Surgically is different and more invasive than how it was done in Jewish societies, ancient Jewish societies, and even how it's done today. But that's what I would say is that they're not the same procedures. You're not removing comparable parts of the genitalia. I totally think that we can respect the decision for someone not to get circumcised. And I think that there is a really good argument for the fact that it's just not necessary, it's just invasive. You know, there's some risks that it could mitigate for, like helping mitigate a UTI or different things down the line. But it is a very kind of like American thing and of course a Jewish thing to do. But in many European countries and all around the world, this is not a common practice. In fact, most men in the world are not circumcised. So this has become a very American medicalized thing to do. And I think it's totally legitimate for people to ask if it's necessary. I do not think it is on par with female genital mutilation simply because it is not as invasive, it's not causing the same problems. Um, but again, more conversations to have about bodily integrity. I just don't think that these two things fit in the same category at all because in a woman it causes so many more problems than it causes for a man. So that's what I would say about that. And obviously God is good like God is good. And so I can't say across the board that doing something like that is simple or wrong or bad because God who created the body and created us male and female and created health and medicine and all of these things, he also knows what is good and right and true. Okay, voicemail number two.
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Hi Allie, I just love you first of all, you're wonderful. But hey, I have a quick question. So I am going to visit my sister next to month and she is a woman pastor and I've been feeling very convicted about this with the the Holy Spirit has been convicting me just to gently share the truth in love with her. I would just love some encouragement and love your thoughts on how to go about this without ruining family trip because it's a week long trip and I will be staying with her the whole time. So love you again Ellie, thank you so much for everything you do for the kingdom. Bye bye.
- [36:53]
A
Such a good question and can be really hard to navigate that tension, wanting to share the truth in love, knowing that you could offend someone that you love. It's so hard to know the time and the place and the right thing to do. I always think about tactics by Greg Kokel and his argument that you're not trying to, you're not trying to score a touchdown in every conversation. You're trying to get the ball a little bit farther down around the field. And so this might not be the trip where you are going to, you know, score points. It might be the trip where you are advancing the ball through thoughtful questions that make her think if you, I think one of the boldest things that you could do but also a way that gives you a little bit of cushion. So it's not completely like guns blazing confrontation right away is, you know, what do you think about. There's so much conversation online from the Southern Baptist Convention making their vote about the whole female pastors thing. Like what do you think about that? Obviously you know, in general what she thinks, but what are her feelings about it? Things like that. Now in that conversation you don't want to come across as nodding your head and affirming what she has to say, but you can say, yeah, that's, you know, that's an interesting thought. I could see how you would, how why it would make you feel that way and you try to affirm and can understand where she is coming from without confirming and affirming her points that you know are unbiblical and you could even ascent to some things like yeah. Gosh, you're so, you're so obviously so gifted as a speaker and as a communicator. A lot of my favorite Christian authors are women, and I love that. But, you know, I struggle with this because I go back to, you know, second Timothy 2:12 or whatever passage, and it does seem like Paul, I don't know, he goes back to creation, you know, and she probably will say something about the culture at the time. Maybe. I don't know how liberal she is. If she's conservative, then she might be more open to that. If she's liberal, we got deeper problems, like, we got much deeper problems with what we believe about the authority of God in scripture and stuff. But if y' all are generally on the same page, except for this, she might engage with you in good faith and you could just, you know, you could just say, yeah, you know, like, like I'm, I'm working through this, or I have worked through this and this is what the Bible says. And you know, it is, it is tough. And just see what she has to say there. That could be the only thing you do. Just pointing her to the word of God could be the most powerful thing you do. And it doesn't have to be a long, drawn out argument. It doesn't have to be angry. If she gets heated, that's her responsibility. You could say, look, yeah, I wasn't trying to start an argument. Honestly, I, I just find it to be a very interesting and difficult conversation. And obviously, like, with your, your background, I know that you'd have a lot of insight into that. I just didn't know if you had thought about it like this. And then maybe a week later, maybe after the vacation, like, hey, thanks so much for being, like, willing to talk to me about that. I. Let me know what you think about this podcast or this article. Like, let me know what you think about the points made here and just, just be, be open to her giving her side without being super defensive. Come from a more curious perspective without it seeming like you're compromising or like you just don't know. I'm not saying you have to pretend to give an open ended answer, but I do think coming from that perspective of humility can help you have a more open conversation. That's, that's what I do. But don't ignore the conviction that you feel from the Holy Spirit either. Great question. Thank you for that. Before we get into more voicemails, let me tell you about our next sponsor, and that is Jevity. This is the time that you get to take control of your health. You don't have to make a doctor's appointment for you to be able to see what's really going on in your body. You can just use Jevity. They make it so easy. They send a phlebotomist right to you, whether it's your place of work or whether it's to your home. Home, whatever convenient location you want. The phlebotomist that came and she drew my blood. She was like the nicest lady ever. It was done in five seconds, totally painless. And then she shipped off my vials, and I had results within days, probably a week or so, that I was able to open my Jevity app, see all of my levels, what my hormones are up to, what my. My blood cell counts are doing and how healthy I am, my immune system, and all of that good stuff. And not just that. I didn't even have to make a doctor's appointment for them to interpret my results. There was a doctor who works with Jevity who uploaded a video talking me through what my results actually meant for about 30 minutes. I listened to it and got the recommendations for what I should be doing, supplement wise, what I should be doing, diet and exercise wise. And she really broke it down like I was five, which I needed and really appreciated. And then I was able to apply her recommendations to optimize my health. And if I wanted to follow up with her, if I had more questions and wanted to talk through things, I could even make an appointment to do that virtually. So it's all just so convenient. Now is the easiest time to be able to take charge of your health, see what's really going on. Go to jevity.com. that's gocom/ally. You'll get 20% off. Go jevity.com/alli. Okay, next. Voicemail.
- [42:15]
B
Hi, Ali. I was home for the summer, and I ended up finding a letter that my younger sister, who's 14, ended up writing to my mom and dad, just saying that she believes that she is transgender and been trying to mull over it, reading, reading my Bible, praying over it. I rewatched a few of your episodes just because I do know that you have a lot of good insight on that. But I'm really struggling to figure out that happy medium of how I can truly love my sister the way that Christ wants me to love her without compromising at all. And, you know, being able to speak truth into her life without feeling untrustworthy or just walking that wire of not knowing whether I should say anything because she doesn't know that I know. But, yeah, if you have any insight on that, that would be great. Yeah. Thank you so much, Alex. Bye.
- [43:33]
A
Okay, great question, and very difficult thing to walk through. I have to believe that you were meant to read that and that the Lord is entrusting you with that knowledge so that you can love her in truth. Now, I don't know the dynamics of your relationship and how she would take it if you found out. If she found out that you read that letter, maybe you feel close enough to her that you can say, hey, I didn't mean to read this. I wasn't trying to invade your privacy, but I did. I did read this. And I want you to know I care a lot about what you're thinking and what you're going through. Do you want to talk about it with me? And start there. It's kind of like what we were talking about with tactics, like you're pushing the ball down the field. You don't have to say right away, hey, by the way, I think that this is wrong. You're delusional. You're not a man. Although that is true. And you may get to the point one day where you feel.
- [44:25]
B
You.
- [44:25]
A
You feel like you can say that right now. See if she will open up to you. See what you can do, whether it is just taking her out to lunch, talking to her. See if she will open up with you spontaneously. Pray about that. Pray that her heart would be open, that her mind would be open to that. Pray about that conversation heavily before you have it, and maybe it'll come up on its own if it doesn't. Pray about the conviction of whether or not you should bring up to her the fact that you. You read that letter. Because I do think it's important, early intervention, early truth telling, you being able to tell her the truth of who she is and how God made her in a loving and gentle way is I. I do believe that God has ordained this for you to be that person, to be able to intervene and intercede for her on her behalf. Go ahead and pray for her, too. That it wouldn't just be you, that God would put in her life, that it would be hundreds of other people that she would cross paths with, that she would come across the truth in her everyday life, and all of that would build up to her a vulnerable, a vulnerability to the truth so that you're not the only person that is trying to point her to what is good and right. And so that's what I would say. I don't think it is a coincidence that you have been entrusted with this knowledge. I think that you have a responsibility to do something with it. And again, I can't tell you exactly what that looks like, but you got to do something in love and in gentleness that leads you to a point of being able to plead with her and persuade her. And yeah, what a remarkable privilege that is. God must really, really care about her a lot and care about you too and trust you that you are able to bring the gospel to your sister. Yeah. Thank you for, thank you for that question. I know that's really, really tough. All right, I think I said we have three voicemails. We got another voicemail. But let me pause and tell you about our last sponsor for the day first before I get to that last awesome question. And that that is Seven Weeks Coffee. Love seven Weeks Coffee. This is another Pro Life sponsor and we drink Seven Weeks Coffee in our home. It's so good, it tastes great, keeps me awake and feeling alive all day. And I love that it's mold free, pesticide free, totally clean, tastes great, sustainably sourced, all that good stuff. But of course, the best part is that they donate 10% of every sale to a pregnancy center across the country. They have donated almost $2 million to these pregnancy centers centers, which is translated into saving thousands of little baby lives and serving their moms and dads. So you can allow your coffee to serve a higher purpose by going to 7weeks Coffee.com, use code ALLY and you'll save 10 on your order. 7weeks Coffee.com code ALLY. All right, last voicemail. Voicemail number three.
- [47:12]
B
Hi, I recently moved and started attending a new church and I've encountered a couple things that are new to me. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Is it biblically appropriate for women to perform baptisms? Also, what are your thoughts on churches that frequently use the NLT or the MSG in sermons? How much does biblical translation choice affect the quality and the faithfulness of teaching? Thanks.
- [47:36]
A
Okay, so on the question of women, women performing baptisms, I'm not going to draw a hard line on that. I would say that probably the best context is in the context of your local church. I don't think that that necessarily negates the legitimacy or even the necessity at times for spontaneous baptisms. But I think if we look at scripture, we do see some authority up of people baptizing, of the people baptizing. And because of that, because of what the Bible says about the what is required to be in authority in the local church, then that does mean that typically it is a man that is doing the baptizing. But I, you know, maybe I'll revisit this and maybe I'll change my mind. Or maybe you have comments because you've already thought about this a lot. This is actually not something that I have talked about on this show. But I don't think right now I can draw a hard line and say, absolutely not. Like a woman cannot baptize in any context. But if you've got a different perspective on that, y' all let me know. And again, maybe I'll revisit it and I'll have a different perspective the next time we talk. Your question about the NLT or the msg, I am less familiar with the nlt, I'm more familiar with the Message version, and I would be greatly troubled if I went to a church where they were using the Message version. I would be greatly troubled. Now if they were using that on one verse because they liked the phraseology, but they traditionally use the NASB or they traditionally use the esb, then I would be okay with that. I'm not saying that using it for any segment of the sermon is always wrong and simple, but if that is your text that you are primarily using as your source, then that's a problem, because it is so. It's taken so many liberties in its translation. Like, there is word for word translation. That's your esv, that's your nasb, that translates things word for word. It's not as colloquial, it's not as easy to read, but it's exactly exact. And then you've got the niv, which still cares about accuracy, but it is thought for thought. And I, I believe I got the NASB right, that it's word for word. ESP is definitely word for word, but NIV is translated thought for thought, so it's easier to read. You see a lot of niv, like kids study Bibles. I had the New Adventure Bible growing up, going to Christian school and going to Baptist church. We had the. The niv, which I. I don't prefer my pastor to use that translation as they're preaching, but I also think that it can be. Be okay, especially the one, I think it's before 1984, that translation, because it's a little bit more exact and doesn't take as many liberties. But I would not prefer my pastor to be using MSG at all. I've never heard a pastor that I listen to regularly use the MSG for any reason, but certainly if it's regularly that's a problem because to me, it speaks to what they think about the authority of God and how much they care about accuracy and, and, you know, biblical translations, which, of course, does matter because it can change the meaning of a text. Um. All right. Those are all such thoughtful questions. I've got the smartest and best and kindest audience in the world. So thank you guys so much. You can always send me a voicemail. We're always. I don't have the. I don't have the number. Oh, the number is right here. 844-755-5252. Try to make it as concise as you possibly can. The callers today did a great job, and I, I look forward to hearing from you next time. We will be back here on Wednesday.