← Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
REPLAY | The Hidden History of Margaret Sanger, the Nazis, & the White Rose Resistance | Guest: Seth Gruber
01:21:12
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- [00:01]
Ali Stuckey
The history of the abortion movement in the United States is so complex and interwoven that it sounds like a conspiracy. You might know the name Margaret Sanger, but do you know Francis Galton? Do you know Thomas Malthus? Do you know how the Rockefellers and Warren Buffett and the Gates and so many others have played a role in the rise to prominence of Planned Parenthood and the pervasiveness of the abortion movement? Do you know the parallels between the abortion movement and the United States and the Third Reich in Germany? Do you know that this goes back hundreds and hundreds of years and the legacy lives on today through Planned Parenthood and all of the politicians and all of the activists that prop it up? Today I am talking to Seth Gruber. He is the founder of the White Rose Resistance, an incredible pro life organization. He also wrote the book the 1916 project that is also the name of his new documentary. And today, after we talk about his story, we are, I think in an incredibly fascinating way, going to listen to him map out the history of the abortion movement, its philosophical and theological roots, how it has manifested itself over the past 100 years, where the ideas have come from, where the money comes from. Guys, you have to listen to. I'm not exaggerating every single second of this conversation until this podcast episode stops. It is chock full every minute of so much. You will be hard pressed to find someone more articulate than Seth Gruber with better recall than Seth Gruber when it comes to abortion and when it comes to just wrapping our minds around the evil that it is. Before we get into the conversation, I want to play you a short clip of the documentary that we'll be talking about in the last half of this interview.
- [02:06]
Seth Gruber
We're going to expose and discover who the real Margaret Sanger was and how her attack and assault against the family in America explains our current culture of death and upside down world that we're living in today. This is where it all started. It was here that Sanger opened up her first unlicensed illegal birth control Clinic in 1916.
- [02:31]
Ali Stuckey
Study the past, not just to understand.
- [02:34]
Seth Gruber
What happened then, but to understand what's happening now. This is a Leviathan Dachau. It's a fitting place to remember what happens when bad ideas are taken to their logical conclusion.
- [02:52]
Ali Stuckey
So good. So good. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good ranchers. Go to good ranchers.com use code ALI. Check out this good ranchers.com code ALI. Seth, thanks so much for joining us. Most people know who you are, but for Those who might not. Can you tell us who you are and what you do?
- [03:17]
Seth Gruber
Yeah. Thank you, Ellis. We had such a good time having you at our screening and then just sharing the stage with you a couple times recently. It's been really powerful. Everyone so appreciates your boldness and clarity. And clarity on call. And so it's good to fight together. Yeah. I was raised in the pro life movement. My mother was actually waddling around a pregnancy center that she was the executive director for in 1991, Pregnant with Me, saving babies and loving on moms. In fact, she would often babysit the Todd whose lives she helped save as fetuses because the degenerate deadbeat boyfriend still wasn't in the picture. And so she'd give the mom some time to go shop or get her hair done. So that was part of our heritage and legacy from a very early stage. We even, like, housed a young boy my age because the mom was having a hard time. And that was another baby that my mom had helped save. And so this was part of our heritage as a family. Homeschooled Los Angeles County. And then in high school, I went to public high school. I saw aborted baby mutilated baby parts in the first trimester at a pro life group that I was volunteering for. And I was a homeschool Christian kid with a mom who had led a pregnancy center. And yet I had never seen the pieces of children from an abortion. And this was all first trimester. And so that. That was probably one of the biggest turning points of my life. Having to look at eyeballs and ears and noses of children at 8 weeks, 9 weeks gestation.
- [04:49]
Ali Stuckey
Was your dad involved at all at the, like within the pro life movement?
- [04:54]
Seth Gruber
No, but he was just a provider and worked his butt off and help homeschool. And we would take family road trips together and do California history trip learning and all this cool stuff as a family.
- [05:04]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah.
- [05:04]
Seth Gruber
And then I went off to a Christian college in Santa Barbara. Well, I thought it was a good Christian college. It's called Westmont. It's a stone's throw from Oprah's house. And I held aborted baby photo signs on campus my junior year in 2012, because the university not only doesn't take a position on whether you should slaughter babies in the name of radical feminism or not, but they also have pro abortion faculty professors on the payroll.
- [05:33]
Ali Stuckey
Wow.
- [05:33]
Seth Gruber
And I started the first pro life club there. So I had discovered the pro abortion professors. I got in email debates with them. I'll put it in. Probably in My next book sometime. And I was like, geez, Louise. And that's when I learned the problem is not necessarily evil men out there who do evil things. It's good people who know better and don't do anything about it or actually syncretize their faith with a little paganism. And now I have tried to speak on campus three times at my alma mater, and the administration has stepped in and stopped it. Wow.
- [06:00]
Ali Stuckey
At the Christian University.
- [06:04]
Seth Gruber
Recently hosted me at the Reagan Ranch center in downtown Santa Barbara. The very event that should have been at my alma mater. So that's sort of my background. And then we launched the White Rose Resistance right after the overturning of Roe and God's blessed it, and we're probably the fastest growing pro life organization in the country now.
- [06:23]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah. Amazing. So that's my background after college. You said that you were involved in the pro life movement through college. What happened after college and until the White Rose Resistance?
- [06:35]
Seth Gruber
Yeah, I graduated 2014 and I had already.
- [06:37]
Ali Stuckey
Me too.
- [06:38]
Seth Gruber
Me too. I had already been volunteering with pro life groups. I had been starting to give talks in youth groups and like Protestant Catholic high schools, men's Bible studies. Like, I was just. I was just itching to speak anywhere that would give me an opportunity or a platform. And when I graduated, I. I joined a small nonprofit pro life group where I raised my own support. And I went into faith based high schools and I did their chapels and I would hang out in classroom and do apologetics and answer questions and help young people defend their pro life beliefs. So I did that until 2020. And then Pastor Jack invited me to preach one morning, all three services while he was defying Newsom and people were driving two, three hours to come to Calvary Chapel, Chino Hills in Southern California. This is like, you know, summer 2020.
- [07:27]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah.
- [07:28]
Seth Gruber
And it was like 13,000 people coming through there on a Sunday. And at that point, Ali, the biggest stage I'd ever spoken on was like 200, 300 people. And I was 29 years old. And now I met my earthly heroes, church pastor Jack Kibbs. And so that's when everything changed for me. And then I pivoted more into pulpits and God opened up all these opportun. I've probably spoken in more pulpits on the issue of life on Sunday mornings than anyone in the world.
- [07:51]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah.
- [07:51]
Seth Gruber
And I had to start turning down. I would have been in a pulpit every Sunday and never been with my family. So it's been a wild ride. And then when Roe got overturned, it became clear we needed Some new bold, intellectual thought leadership, especially for the church, whose job this has been the entire time. And so we're really a ministry that was launched by and for the church. I do the college campus stuff, like you, you know, that's important. But this is really the role of the church because the pro life movement used to go by another name. Christendom.
- [08:19]
Ali Stuckey
Yes. Was there ever a moment when you were speaking because, gosh, you're just so naturally gifted and it's so obvious that the passion is there. Was there ever a moment that you felt like, yep, this is what God is calling me to do forever?
- [08:34]
Seth Gruber
Oh, yeah. I knew from 18. So I was a senior in high school, and I did my senior project on abortion. And so I was homeschooled three years ago.
- [08:41]
Ali Stuckey
I'm sure that was really popular at a public school in la. Everyone loved it, right?
- [08:45]
Seth Gruber
Yeah. Well, at least back then, you know, you and I, Allie, we were sort of that last generation that might have sneaked by with a semblance of normalcy in the culture and maybe even a Democrat and a Republican saying, you're my friend, it's okay, we can disagree. But then shortly after we graduated high school, all that went away really quickly. And so, believe it or not, I actually had pro choice friends who actually liked me, and I was like the captain across country and all this stuff. But I told my public high school, I said, I'm doing my senior project on abortion, and you had to do a research paper, field work, or volunteer hours and then a speech at the end of the year to graduate. And my high school told me, you can't pick the topic of abortion. This was 2009. And. And so they didn't know I was homeschooled. So I said, here's a copy of the Constitution you're making me read in government class. You should probably read it or you're going to have a lossuit on your hands. And so I actually was. I emailed the superintendent of the Whittier Union High School District, and I threatened a lawsuit. So they backed off. Real. Yeah.
- [09:42]
Ali Stuckey
I was saying most high schoolers would not have known to do that. They wouldn't have done it. Okay.
- [09:46]
Seth Gruber
Yeah. So viewpoint discrimination. That was threatening to sue for viewpoint discrimination. And then they backed off. They shut up. I. My senior project on abortion and the pro life organization that I volunteered at was actually a group that my mom had been on the board of when I was born. And they had me scan 300 images of first trimester, mutilated, aborted baby photos for their educational projects. And by the way, I'm a huge advocate of abortion imagery in the public square. I'm not saying like, go put it outside of an elementary school or shove it in children's faces, but I'm saying like, if abortion's such a great idea, then why would a simple picture of it make you so upset? If you're pro choice, shouldn't you be willing to look at what that choice looks like? And so that changed my life. And it was from that point, at 18 years old, staring at, at the emaciated bodies of little first trimester babies for two days straight, six hour shifts on a high quality scanner and categorizing them in this organization's database that I knew that this was going to be my life's calling.
- [10:41]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah.
- [10:41]
Seth Gruber
And then I started speaking at 19 and, and always knew that I was called to speak.
- [10:46]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah. You know, I've never told this story, but you're talking about abortion imagery. And one time we were out and about with our whole family and there was, it was actually like life drawing, but it was showing the, the barbarity of abortion. And it was like depicting a fetus that was dismembered and it was red and it was very gory and I don't remember what it said on there, but it was clear to me that it was talking about ending abortion and just showing how demonic and how violent abortion is. And my 5 year old saw it and immediately, immediately broke down and was so disturbed by it. And I, you know, I, I didn't, she's, you know, so young. I didn't really want her to be looking at this and thinking about this, but she couldn't stop asking me about it. She just kept on asking questions over and over again. And I'm not faulting that pro life organization for doing that. My point is that that is how all of our hearts should be. Like when Jesus says, have faith like a child. It's that, it's that softness, it's that vulnerability, it's that innate knowledge that, wait, babies aren't supposed to be hurt. Babies aren't supposed to be torn apart. Babies aren't supposed to have blood on them like that. And it just reminded me that like, may I never even as a pro lifer get used to that.
- [12:05]
Seth Gruber
Yeah, that's right.
- [12:06]
Ali Stuckey
You know, so I think that you make a good point about the power that those images can have.
- [12:11]
Seth Gruber
Have you heard the story of Emmett Till?
- [12:13]
Ali Stuckey
Yes, yes. I learned about that in college.
- [12:16]
Seth Gruber
I used to use this in my talks years ago. And it's. I haven't told the story in a while, but very briefly, this is in the south and during well after slavery's ended, but this is still a horrible time. And this young boy, Emmett, was visiting his family.
- [12:35]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah.
- [12:35]
Seth Gruber
In Honey, Mississippi. And according to reports, he kind of catcalled the clerk at a grocery store, you know, or something like that. And his friends had dared him to go talk to and flirt with this because he said, I have a white girlfriend. And they said, no you don't. I dare you to go speak to her. So he did. And anyways, a couple days later, the husband of that woman and his friends drug Amit Till out of his aunt or uncle's home, dragged him through the street with a car, threw twine around his neck, beat the living pulp out of him and threw him into the Mississippi River. They found his body days later and they didn't know who they had found. His face looked like a deflated football. And his mother shocked the world when she requested an open casket. And that photo of Emmett Till's brutalized and emaciated body was published in newspapers all around America. And so racism got a face that day and America was forced to look at what they were supporting or tolerating and making peace with. People told her, you know, this is disrespectful to your little boy. We hear that from some me, some, I think good hearted pro lifers even today who oppose the use of abortion imagery because they say this is disrespectful to the aborted children. You shouldn't be doing this.
- [14:06]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah.
- [14:07]
Seth Gruber
Her response to those people was, I want the world to see what they did to my little boy. To this day, Ali historians believe that more than Rosa Parks actions, it was actually the published photo of Emmett Till's brutalized body that was the spark to the civil rights movement. And so we need to open up the casket on abortion today. And America needs to be in looking at the faces that represent 70 million aborted babies since 1970 in America.
- [14:40]
Ali Stuckey
The sad thing is, is that it's even professing Christians. It's even people within the church who say, well that's just too harsh, that's too divisive, that's too polarizing. They really don't want to think about what abortion is. Even some who say, sure, I'm politically or I'm personally pro life, politically pro choice. Tell us what you're seeing within the church as far as just the cowardice goes when it comes to this issue.
- [15:08]
Seth Gruber
The 60 years or more of cowardice in the church alley is now being reflected in the gop, isn't it?
- [15:13]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah.
- [15:15]
Seth Gruber
So we really brought this on ourselves.
- [15:16]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah, that's a good point.
- [15:18]
Seth Gruber
And so I, you know, I have some grace for Trump because I think he's a byproduct of a 60, 70 year long, apathetic, compromised, weak church who, if she, the bride of Christ, had been contending culturally and politically with as much zeal. No, no, no, half as much zeal as the radical left has done for nearly a century, we wouldn't have had an individual like Trump anyways. Now, listen, he's funny. There's a lot of reasons I like him, but like, this capitulation on marriage and the unborn is what got us into this place in the culture in the first place. And now through Trump's influence on the gop, they've completely walked away from their commitment to federal protections for the unborn from the moment of conception. They've compromised on ivf and now they've compromised on kind of the historic, well, actually the only true definition of marriage. I mean, these are the issues that got us into this position. And so, so, yeah, I mean, the cowardice in the church is now being kind of just mirrored in the only political party that could give us a viable opportunity to protect the unborn in the first place. But I think of this line from C.S. lewis, he said a long time ago, and I think that this is why Megan Basham's work is so important, exposing big Eva, big evangelicalism. Because these are the people whose leadership, writing, preaching and books have created such an impotent church. And C.S. lewis once said, describing himself and his friends, it's fascinating. He said, we simply found ourselves in contact with a certain current of ideas and we plunged into it because it seemed modern and successful. You know, we started automatically writing the kind of essays that got good marks and saying the kinds of things that won applause. We were afraid of a breach with the spirit of the age, afraid of ridicule. Having allowed ourselves to drift unresisting, accepting every half conscious solicitation from our desires, we reached a point where we no longer believed the faith. He talked about, like the desire to be in the inner circle is very good at making a man who is not yet a very bad man do very bad things. We're going to be persecuted. The next few years in the church and in the culture are getting very dark. You talk about these things more than most people. Throwing pro life sidewalk counselors in prison, California, kidnapping, gender confused minors. If A fauci follow the science public health scientist determines that the parents through their non gender affirming attitudes are a mental health risk to the child. I mean, things are getting very, very, very, very, very dark. And we're going to need believers filled with the spirit who are excited for the fight ahead, who are ready to slay dragons and who are ready to be obedient and let the chips fall where they may and leave the results to God. So, I mean, your question we could spend the next hour trying to answer. Yeah, but I think that's the beginning of an answer. And we've actually been missing out on the greatest adventure by trying to be like Lot in Genesis and get attaboys and cheers from the so so we can be invited to all the right parties. We have, we have inevitably stepped aside and allowed the mob to have their way with the next generation. And I think the spirit of lot in the American church is probably more responsible for bringing us to this current moment. But he was called a righteous man. So you can be saved, but not salty. You can make it into the kingdom, getting singed on the way in. But what's going to be your testimony at the marriage supper of the Lamb? When we're asked, what did you do about the kids? What did you do about the children?
- [18:48]
Ali Stuckey
I'm so curious what you think the Christian strategy should be when it comes to the GOP compromise. I heard recently, Ryan Anderson say that Christian conservatives have become the cheap date of the Republican Party. You buy us a couple of drinks and, you know, we'll go home with you. And it does put us in this really difficult position because you've got Trump and Vance, who are less rabidly pro abortion than Kamala. Of course, she was the most. She is the most rapidly pro abortion politician, I would say, in the United States. And. But they're saying things that are completely nonsensical. Oh, let's compromise at 16 weeks. Everyone will be happy. Follow your heart. Totally incoherent. Not really truly pro life when it comes to that agenda. As you said, the GOP took out strong pro life language from their platform. So do we just keep voting for Republicans until we get to the point to where we're just saying, well, at least it's not 40 weeks that they're for, it's just 38.
- [19:50]
Seth Gruber
Yep.
- [19:51]
Ali Stuckey
Like, is it good enough for them to just be a little bit to the right of liberals? Are we rewarding them by continuing to vote for them, or is it just the only option we have?
- [20:03]
Seth Gruber
Yeah, I, we are in this position because we've abdicated for so long. And at some point, believers and conservatives are gonna have to be willing to put a line in the sand. G.K. chesterton had this great line from 100 years ago in the Illustrated London News. He said, the business of progressives is to keep on making mistakes. The business of conservatives is to prevent the mistakes being corrected. And unfortunately, we kind of continue to see that today. It's almost like the conservative movement as we know it today just imbibes whatever the radical ideas were of Democrats ten years later. And so now, you know, conservative Republicans today look like Democrats 10 years ago. @ some point, we're going to have to be as unyielding in our principles as the left has always been. You and I know that a moderate pro choice Democrat would never even get the time of day anywhere close to the White House, even if they supported first trimester abortions. But maybe not second and third trimester. They would never. The, the, the, the, the Democrat base that they rely on to get elected would not vote for them.
- [21:17]
Ali Stuckey
Even rfk.
- [21:18]
Seth Gruber
Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
- [21:19]
Ali Stuckey
You know, I was thinking about your story and just how the Holy Spirit is so interesting how he works through the lives of believers. You were talking about you started preaching at these big churches in 2020 and you kind of real years how much work needs to be done within the church. And I would say it was 2020 for me that I also realized that. And it was really George Floyd and all that. And I saw Christians and professing Christians mimicking this social racial justice, BLM nonsense that has no founding in scripture when it comes to the definition of biblical justice. And I really saw that it was mostly evangelical women. The these, I would say even white evangelical women who are parroting these talking points. And I've seen a lot of that group, although many of them kind of came to their senses and realized, okay, yeah, that's probably not okay, that's insane. But it's a lot of those same women who will say something as nonsensical as well, I'm politically pro choice, I'm personally pro life, but look, I want a woman to be able to get a DNC after a miscarriage. They've been very propagandized into believing, yeah.
- [22:31]
Seth Gruber
We heard a lot of that, that.
- [22:32]
Ali Stuckey
Any restriction on abortion, the overturning of Roe v. Wade, all that stuff, they will not say that restrictions are good. They'll say, well, I'm holistically pro life or I'm womb to tomb Pro life, which really just means that they're for like liberal immigration law, they're against the death penalty, but they're for abortion.
- [22:50]
Seth Gruber
That's right.
- [22:50]
Ali Stuckey
Which is incoherent. So tell me your thoughts on that and how we approach that group.
- [22:55]
Seth Gruber
Yeah. The redefinition of pro life has been, has been a war that's been wagin probably over a decade now. And it's been progressives who call themselves Christians and act full blown anti God, atheist, materialist progressives who have seeked to influence people like David Platt, Matt Chandler, Russell Moore, lecrae, Jackie Hill Perry, TD Jakes. Shall I continue to celebrate their cheerleading of this new definition of pro life? Because it allows the progressives to sneak in their progressive priorities and masquerade it with the that they know they can use to get Christians on board with the social justice training. What is that term? Pro life? What are the two ways that progressives know that they can influence believers and win the hearts and minds of Christians who are not like Chesterton, they're not like CS Lewis, they're not like Metaxas, they're not like you. They haven't thought deeply about these ideas. You either call it a gospel centered issue or you call it a pro life issue. And then you know that the Christians become very easy to maneuver and manipulate because, oh, it's, it's about the gospel, it's a great commission, or it's about the babies. Pro life. You're pro life, right? Christian? Oh yeah, I'm pro life. Well, then you got to support open borders. You got to take the jab because you know, you don't want people to die. Love your neighbor. And so they sneak in all of this crap. Ali. And so what they've done is they've redefined pro life from the protection of life in the womb to the allegedly quality of life outside the womb. So rather than saying let's not slaughter children in the womb, it's, well, you know, you gotta grant mass amnesty because those are image bearers. And so that's a life issue. And so they've completely redefined what pro life means. And this has even been pushed by people like Russell Moore, who used to be at the erlc, which is a political arm of the largest Protestant denomination in the country, the Southern Baptist. And now he's the editor in chief of Christianity Today. For goodness sake, Billy Graham's flagship Christian publication. A lot of these people, including Lecrae and others, and Phil Vischer, Mr. Bob Potato, VeggieTales, Creat, have have done a lot to influence believers to accept this new re redefinition of pro life. And, and so he who fights everywhere, fights nowhere. So if, if now to be pro life means that I've got to do all this other stuff that, that allegedly improve. Improves quality of life outside the womb, then how the heck am I supposed to ever end the killing of babies in the womb?
- [25:21]
Ali Stuckey
Right.
- [25:21]
Seth Gruber
And, and secure protection of life in the womb? So it's very important for us to be clear and push back on what pro life actually means. And, and so I have lost a lot of friends and I've watched a lot of people capitulate over the last few years because they've accepted this new redefinition. And so then you get articles in the Gospel Coalition by Thibidi Anawali or whatever African name he changed for himself a decade ago where he says, evangelical pastors, please tell us to vote for Hillary. That was the name of an article at the Gospel Coalition, which is Tim Keller's brainchild. He co founded the Gospel Coalition. And I've watched people I know or people that I used to respect from afar say, well, I got to vote for Hillary or I've got to vote for Biden because they have a more comprehensive ethic of life, womb to tomb kind of stuff. So how do we reach those people? I mean, this, this is why clear moral teaching from the pulpit is so dang important. I think most of the issues we're facing in America today, Ali, are result from a lack of moral teaching from the pulpit. There's this incredible story that Megan Basham says tells in her new book Shepherds for Sale, how evangelical ministers traded the truth for a leftist agenda. And it's about Kristen. Kristen. What was her name? She went to Tim.
- [26:30]
Ali Stuckey
Kristen Powers.
- [26:30]
Seth Gruber
Yeah. Tim Keller's church. Right, right. Who's with CNN or something like that? One of the left wing. But she used to attend Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York City. And a couple years ago, after she completely walked away from Christ and no longer even claims to be a Christian, she wrote this thing I just retweeted on my Twitter because I was like, this is crazy to read. And she said, for the years that I was there under Pastor Tim Keller's preaching, I never heard anything about what he believed or his denomination believed about male headshots, about marriage, about gender and sexuality, or about abortion. I mean, she was in a Kathy Keller Bible study, I think, and she said, I never even heard any of this stuff. That's what I mean, Ali. I Mean, that's a lack of moral teaching from the pulpit. But then she said, but I guess most of those things were pretty standard orthodox beliefs in the Presbyterian Church. But I never even knew it because Tim Keller never said it from the pulpit. There was no clear moral teaching. That's a little vignette.
- [27:28]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah.
- [27:28]
Seth Gruber
Of what I mean is that the business of conservatives is to. Is to prevent the mistakes being corrected. And that kind of abdication from the shepherds of the church and of America is why we're in this current predicament.
- [27:40]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah. Okay. You've brought up Matt Chandler a couple times, and he was the first. I mean, definitely not the. The first, because I grew up going to a gospel preaching church and I went to Christian school, kindergarten through 12th grade. And so I knew the gospel and I knew a lot of my Bible. But his preaching of the gospel was so different and so compelling and so effective for me when I was in college. And actually his how he has talked about abortion over the years. I don't know if he still does it. He used to. Powerful sermon eight years ago, nine years ago, every January. He used to talk vividly about abortion and what abortion was. And so why do you bring him up in this conversation?
- [28:23]
Seth Gruber
Well, it was. It was Matt. It was Matt Chandler, I believe. Believe. Who said, I would always hire a black six before a white seven.
- [28:32]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah, Anglo. It was. It was. It was Anglo, I think.
- [28:36]
Seth Gruber
But then he said, but I would never hire a black six before a white eight because I don't want to be accused of tokenism.
- [28:43]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah, that was at the MLK50 conference, I think, in 2018 or 19.
- [28:46]
Seth Gruber
Good. Very. Yes, you're right. Correct. Thank you for that refresher. And. But then, but then someone responded to him on social media and said, no, you are okay with tokenism as long as it's narrow enough that you might escape being criticized of tokenism. And so that's critical race theory. Obviously, what he's saying is, is like from a 1 to 10 in terms of how qualified you are for a job, he'd rather have a less qualified black person than a slightly more qualified white person. Why? Because critical race theory and Frankfurt School and all this trash.
- [29:12]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah. You know, this issue of pastors not willing to say the thing out loud, whether it's about abortion, whether it's about gender, whether it's about marriage, which some people think is just like a foregone and battle. It's like the idea is that, well, if I just preach the Bible, which of course, that is the primary job of a pastor, then people will piece it together on their own. People will kind of put it together, and the Holy Spirit will work in their heart. But I'm like, okay, but there's a reason, Pastor, why your congregants listen to me, and they want to know, okay, yeah, that's what the Bible says. But how do I think about this? How do I think about this? And I would love to have my job be obsolete because every single person's pastor is telling them exactly what the word of God says about these issues.
- [30:00]
Seth Gruber
Amen.
- [30:00]
Ali Stuckey
Not that they have to get in the pulpit and talk about the news of the week every week. I'm not saying that. But what it seems like you're saying is that these are Genesis 1 issues. And if you're not preaching about abortion, if you're not preaching about gender, marriage, it's not that you're not wading into politics. You're actually not preaching scripture, which is your job.
- [30:19]
Seth Gruber
Yeah. Oh, man, I wish we had more voices like you in the church, Ali. And I think you've created a lot of bold voices through your show, and I'm grateful for that. What you just said is so good. We could talk about that for ages. Yeah. It's been said that unless the church flatulent becomes the church militant, it will become the church irrelevant. And I'm not talking like AR15s. I mean, like, militant in righteousness and fervor for the kingdom and pushing back. And. And there's this great pastor friend of mine up in north of Seattle, and he had me for a big event a couple years ago, and he's the sweetest guy. He said to his congregation, after George Floyd and the shutdowns, he got up on the pulpit on Sunday morning and he said, I need to repent and apologize to you. And he wasn't woke, but he was just silent on these issues. And he said, I've failed you. And I didn't realize that while we were preaching the gospel, the. The left, the religion of humanism has been encroaching into my territory as a pastor. He said, when you're talking about marriage, you talk about the family, you talk about parental rights, you talk about the unborn. That's my territory as a pastor. We've allowed them to take over our territory. And in tears, he repented to his entire congreg for failing them and not addressing these issues. And it was this incredibly powerful moment that I think we need more of in the church for pastors to realize. I think there needs to be some Serious repentance that you thought that you were being apolitical. Right? I'm neither left nor right. I'm gospel centered.
- [31:59]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah, the third way.
- [32:00]
Seth Gruber
Yeah, yeah, the third way is in which Tim Keller probably popularized and helped more than anyone else. Unfortunately, that. No, this was actually fundamentally biblical and spiritual issues. This is not a debate over tax rates. Okay. Or highways and byways. These are gospel. These are biblical issues. And so we've allowed the other side to define the terms of engagement, actually. Ali. So they know that if they can label whatever their new kooky, humanistic, materialist, occultic, gnostic agenda is as just the politics. Right. Or just the science, they can can keep politically impotent pastors silent. Whether that's because they fear losing their 501c3 status or they don't want to stop being invited onto MSNBC or CNN as the Russell Moore phone a Christian representative to represent evangelicalism. Whatever the reason is, maybe they lose. They fear losing the tithes of many of the people in their church who they know lean left, which is a result of your actually failure as a pastor in the first place. Whatever the reason is, we've allowed the other side to define the terms of engagement, and we have to actually take back territory.
- [33:13]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah.
- [33:14]
Seth Gruber
So that's why at the White Rose Resistance, with the film we're doing, we're actually now launching these resistance chapters all around the country. So we've launched in Boise, we're launching in Southern California with Pastor Jack Kibbs and a ton of Southern California churches in August, in Fort Worth in October, and in Florida probably in September, and. And in Memphis. And now we have people wanting to launch in Virginia, in New York City, in Nevada, in Arizona. And this is not a campus thing. It's not a university campus thing. This is just believers of all ages. Because the number one response I get at churches, Ali, is Seth, what can I do? And I think we're finally now in this season where maybe there's. There's enough of a awakening and there's enough of an itch to do something and to step into that adventure that believers are needing guidance and leadership on. Like, how can we take back our culture beyond just voting?
- [34:00]
Ali Stuckey
Okay, tell me about the 1916 project. Tell me why it's called that, first off.
- [34:04]
Seth Gruber
Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you. That's what everyone asks first. And good job.
- [34:07]
Ali Stuckey
Because.
- [34:08]
Seth Gruber
Because 70% of the people that probably have me on the podcast, they say 16, 19, and they get it mixed up.
- [34:12]
Ali Stuckey
No, we need to change that to when people. When they mean to say 1619. They actually say 1916 because this has taken over the culture so much.
- [34:21]
Seth Gruber
That's right, yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Ali. So, well, the answer to that question is to actually start with 1619. And so 1619 project. I mean, you've talked about this. I mean, you were talking about this years ago, Ali, but Nicole Hannah Jones, the purple haired Marxist, and I don't say that to be demeaning or attacking. She actually has purple hair and she's actually a Marxist. She's the author of the 1619 Project. You know what is interesting? She was mentored by Angela Davis, who's this like very old communist, anti white racist.
- [34:55]
Ali Stuckey
Yes.
- [34:56]
Seth Gruber
And she is a disciple of the Frankfurt School. She was. Now, no, this is fascinating. Angela Davis mentored both Nicole Hannah Jones and Alicia Garza and Patrice Cullers, the co founders of BLM Incorporated. Now, who mentored Angela Davis? Herbert Marcuse, one of the fathers of the Free Love movement. Oh, you know who he is? In California, he was famous for saying that the way back into the garden is to take another bite of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. In other words, commit the original sin again. That's how we'll enter the perpetual state of innocence, to quote him. So that's Herbert Marcuse. How fundamentally theological. Right? Isn't that what we were just talking about? Now, Herbert Marcuse and Wilhelm Reich were kind of the two fathers of the Free Love movement, both products and students of the Frankfurt School. Now remember the Frankfurt School, Frankfurt, Germany. That's where we get critical theory and critical race theory. We were talking about Pete Buttigieg off air earlier because of his recent white boy soy boy support of Kamala Harris. So this is fascinating. So the critical cultural Marxist race theorists flee Frankfurt because some of them were German Jews and so they actually feared Hitler. So the Frankfurt School was moved from Frankfurt, Germany to Columbia University and they became kind of the fathers of the radical hippie movement and the radical Yippee movement and later became tenured professors at American universities.
- [36:21]
Ali Stuckey
There we go.
- [36:21]
Seth Gruber
The Frankfurt School was based off of the letters and writing writings of Antonio Gramsci, who had studied Marx. But Gramsci won a Fowla Mussolini and spent the rest of his life in prison. And he wrote and read voluminously. He even read Chesterton and all these authors. But we have his prison letters that were kind of the intellectual basis for the founding of the Frankfurt School. Well, a few years ago, a American expert in Gramski and cultural Marxism and critical theory translated Antonio Gramski's prison Letters into English for American leftists to read and study. He was a professor by the name of Joseph Buddha Judge, the father of a certain Mayor Pete Buddha Judge. So all these people are Marxists is actually what I'm trying to say, Ali.
- [37:19]
Ali Stuckey
And it's not even an exaggeration. I feel like in 2020, 20 people used to make fun of that term Marxist, as if we didn't know what we were talking about. No, we're speaking literally. And I know we're talking about your project, but because we have this clip that you kind of alluded to. Yeah. Of Pete Buttigieg saying the quiet part out loud when it comes to abortion. Let's play it. It's thought five.
- [37:40]
Seth Gruber
I'm so glad she has made freedom the theme of her campaign, because I think in so many ways that's what's at stake. And yes, women's freedom is exhibit A after Donald Trump demolished the right to choose. But of course, men are also more free in a country where we have a president who stands up for things like access to abortion care. Men are more free when the leader of the free world and the leader of this country supports access to birth control.
- [38:09]
Ali Stuckey
Okay, so deadbeats are freer to be deadbeats when they can knock a girl up and then pressure her to get an abortion. Oh, wow. Shocking.
- [38:19]
Seth Gruber
Yeah. Yeah. So now we know a little bit of the heritage and ideologies that created the Buttigieg family and why he would say such an evil, evil thing. Yes, of course. Every. Every sexually liberated degenerate man loves abortion rights. Abortions rights are pro choice. Men's rights, I guess. Exactly. So. So this is. This. This literally is cultural Marxism. Except. Except instead of being driven by economics and politics. Politics. The cultural Marxists realized a long time ago, Ali, that the riots in the street, the police free zone in Seattle, burning down Ferguson, this wasn't working to usher in the revolution. And so they began to change their playbook, that if we're gonna change the culture, we've gotta approach it culturally. We have to focus on winning the robes of society. This was a line that came from Antonio Gramsci. Again, let me say this again. Pete Buttigieg's dad is the American expert on Antonio Grand Gramsci and cultural Marxism. So that's why he's the degenerate, and that's why Pete sounds like that. Okay.
- [39:20]
Ali Stuckey
Right.
- [39:21]
Seth Gruber
But Antonio Gramski talked about this thing called the strategy of the robes. And he said, if we can win the robes of academia, the robes of the courts, the robes of the Clergy and the robes of the scientific organizations, then the revolution will happen without guns. In fact, Max Horkheimer, one of the first members of the Frankfurt School, literally said this. Max Horkheimer said, the revolution will not happen without guns. Rather, it will happen incrementally, year by year. We will infiltrate their institutions, turning them into Marxist egalitarian institutions. So these people spoke openly about their. What their. What their plan was. Okay, you're not a conspiracy theorist. And we trace all this and have all the receipts for all these kind of things that we just talked about in my book, the 1916 Project. And it's also a film, of course, but so anyways, that's the background of all this stuff. So when you get the 1619 Project with Nicole Hannah Jones, she's the product of that. It's the Great Commission flipped upside down. They've done to disciple the next generation with paganism and humanism and to pour in and disciple young men and women into their paganism than we have done to disciple young believers in the church for the last hundred years. So she writes the 1619 Project, you remember? And she says, what's the title? The 1619 Project A New Founding. And they said America's founding shouldn't even be 1776. It should be 1619, when the first black slaves come to American shores. That event of the first black slaves coming to American shores, it's so indicative and representative of who we are today because we're so racist and we're such a horrible country. And that's why we need to defund the police, because the police force a long time ago was used to capture escaped slaves and return them to their plantation owners. And so because that was racist back then, there's nothing redeemable about it now. In other words, when the roots are racist and the genesis is racist, then it will continue to be racist moving forward. There's no way to redeem something that was founded on racism. You've got to burn the whole thing down. And sometimes they did. They burned down police stations and courthouses. So that's what drives the 1619 project. It became curriculum in many K through 12 schools in America. It's now a special on Hulu. Have you seen the docu series on Hulu?
- [41:23]
Ali Stuckey
I haven't watched it, but yes. Yeah.
- [41:25]
Seth Gruber
So this has become very influential and significant. But that was nine months before George Floyd. People forget this. This was the fall of 2019.
- [41:32]
Ali Stuckey
Isn't that interesting? Laying the groundwork.
- [41:35]
Seth Gruber
What's the first and only word that progressives and liberals at Our journalistic institutions of power are itching to scream when the George Floyd thing happened. Racism. That's the only explanation. There's no other explanations. And if you say there might be another explanation, that's proof of why you're a racist. Okay, circular reasoning, it's an unfalsifiable premise, but shut up. Silence is violence. Post a black square, you bigot. And so then this drives the cancel culture of 2020 of canceling anything that the 1619 disciples Ali argued viewed had vestiges of racism. So, Aunt Jemima. Yeah, we had to cancel the serve lady because. Because that, that, that's. That's a racist undertones back when it was founded. And now here's where it gets to 1916, and here's where this, this story of this tension between 1619 and 1916 is so interesting. You know the phrase the revolution always eats its own.
- [42:27]
Ali Stuckey
Its own. Yeah.
- [42:29]
Seth Gruber
So the left and. Oh, by the way, what did they call the summer of 2020? The 1619. Right. People called it the 1619 riot. So they were connecting it and actually.
- [42:37]
Ali Stuckey
I just, you know, this pops into my head because I actually saw this again the other day. It was a post by Lecrae, whom you've already mentioned, and this was right after George Floyd. And it was when all the riots were happening and he posted a picture on his Instagram, it's still there. That said that, you know, George Floyd was not a wake up call. The alarm has been sounding since 1619, and you have just been hitting snow news. That is exactly what you're talking about. That George Floyd who died, we had to assume because the race is involved, it was because of racism, that that is actually because of 1619.
- [43:15]
Seth Gruber
Yeah, that's the only explanation.
- [43:17]
Ali Stuckey
I mean, how convenient is it that 1619 was already stoking the ember, stoking the flames before.
- [43:24]
Seth Gruber
That's right. Oh, and it was being pushed on, like, every mainstream liberal news site and organization. I mean, it really gave the progressives whose poor, miserable lives have no meaning something to talk about in Martha's Vineyard cocktail parties.
- [43:36]
Ali Stuckey
And it's not true, but then it's most important.
- [43:38]
Seth Gruber
Yeah, that's right. A huge influence on the culture.
- [43:40]
Ali Stuckey
Right.
- [43:42]
Seth Gruber
And by the way, if you've read the 1619 Project and the series of essays that Nikole Hannah Jones had her critical race theorist friends publish in this book, what they did was they sought to link those first black slaves coming to American shores in 1619 with everything racist in the country. So, like the disparity in health between black Women and white women. The disparity, everything of maternal death from pregnancy, from black women and white women, police shootings, the incarceration rate. I mean, everything is 16, 19 16, 19, 16, 19. So now the left eats its own. And so the disciples of the 1619 project. So I'm talking pro abortion Marxists. These are not our friends, Ali. Pro abortion Marxists went after Planned Parenthood in July of 2020. Why? Because everything is racist, right? And so they said, your founder, Margaret Sanger, you know what? She was a racist and a eugenic genesis. Now this is like theater for me. I was like, front row, give me a big popcorn soda. Like, this is hilarious. This is hilarious. And we've been saying this for 100 years. I mean, Chesterton was saying this, you know, Francis Schaefer, like all of the.
- [44:43]
Ali Stuckey
Watch my tweet on my. On my ex from 2020. It says, if we're getting rid of everything that was founded by white supremacy, we gotta do away with Planned Parenthood. But I didn't know well that pro abortionists at the time were saying, yeah, well said.
- [44:56]
Seth Gruber
Yeah, exactly. So it's interesting when we're on the same side here with them saying, yeah, your Planned Parenthood is racist. But. And so then Karen Seltzer, the director of Planned Parenthood of Greater New York, came out July 2020. I think this was probably the least covered news story in conservative news media, because it's fascinating. And she said, we're done making excuses for our founder and the damage that she did to communities of color. I was like, what? And then their flagship ship, Planned Parenthood Clinic, it's in Manhattan, was called the Sanger Health Center. And the corner it sits on on Bleecker street was called the Margaret Sanger Square. So the city had called that corner the Sanger Square, and the Planned Parenthood had called their building Sanger. Both canceled her. So the Margaret Sanger Square sign was taken off and they renamed the building and they took her name off it. It's no longer called the Sanger Planned Parenthood Health Center. So the. The left ate their own. Planned Parenthood says our founders are racist. But remember, what's the premises and claims of critical race theorists Ali that if something's founded and based on such bigotry and racism, it's irredeemable.
- [46:00]
Ali Stuckey
You can't get torn down.
- [46:01]
Seth Gruber
You can't save it. You have to tear the whole thing down. Did they do that with Planned Parenthood? No, of course not. Because all those claims of critical race theorists are garbage. They don't actually mean or believe any of it. Very few of them do because they didn't call for the defunding of Planned Parenthood or the elimination or the destruction of Planned Parenthood. And so basically, Planned Parenthood said, yeah, our roots are super racist, but the tree will continue to grow unfettered. So that is how the disciples of the 1619 project got planned Parenthood to cancel their founder and admit she was a racist. What happened in 1916? Well, that woman, Margaret Sanger, opened her first clinic in the Brownsville section of Brooklyn, New York, that became the first Planned Parenthood, quote, unquote clinic. And with whatever time we have left, the details behind that revolution, the founding of Planned Parenthood, the religion and ideologies, individuals and revolutionaries that were wrapped up in that experiment are more shocking than most Americans are even prepared to begin hearing the answers for. But I think post 2020, Americans and believers are a little bit more ready to hear answers to questions that if I had given them in 2018 18, they would have called me an Alex Jones conspiracy theorist. And now I think people are going, oh, I bet I've been lied to. And I bet there's a deeper truth to this stuff.
- [47:20]
Ali Stuckey
Gosh, when I was watching the 1916 Project and y'all were piecing these things together, it was so funny, because, again, this just goes back to how there is one Holy Spirit, and he is so often working in a parallel way among believers at the same time. Yeah, you and I coming from different places, but thankfully, I. I knew a lot of the things that you were talking about. Now, I had freshly learned them because I had been researching a chapter that I just wrote on abortion, and I did not know a lot of these connections. But in just doing my own research, making the connection from Margaret Sanger to Francis Galton to Charles Darwin, I had. I had written that out recently. And then when I saw y'all map it out, y'all fleshed it out a lot more than I did. And y'all even introduced people that I had not heard of. But I'm like, okay, obviously, obviously, the Lord wants the church to know this because he is using multiple people. He is revealing this to multiple people, and the time is now. So I. You're the best person, though, to give us the summary. I mean, we can talk about this for three hours. Tell us a little bit about that philosophical, even theological legacy, but also the mentorship that led to Margaret Sanger.
- [48:35]
Seth Gruber
Yeah, the Great Commission flipped upside down.
- [48:37]
Ali Stuckey
Yes. Okay. You're making my wheel turn so much. I'm realizing, like in Stranger Things, that, okay, this kind of goes back to Matt Chandler saying, yes, it's like, okay, Matt Chandler says they want the kingdom and not the king. Maybe that's true, but it's the upside down one, like you say, okay, the redemption part. Like, they. An institution like Planned Parenthood can only be redeemed or can't be redeemed because, you know, it started by white supremacist, but they keep it around anyway. But maybe it's actually because their definition of redemption is the exact opposite of what it is. Their definition of redemption is using something for the purpose of destruction. So that's why they keep the universities around. That's why they keep the CDC around, That's why they keep the federal government around, because their idea of redemption is actually resting power away for their own destructive purposes. So it. It really is like the upside down.
- [49:30]
Seth Gruber
Wrong.
- [49:31]
Ali Stuckey
I'm sorry, but you've got my wheels turning. Okay, go with Margaret Singer.
- [49:35]
Seth Gruber
That was really, really well said, Ellie. Dietrich Bonhoeffer once said, political action means taking on responsibility. This cannot happen without power. Power is to serve responsibility. Power, like money, is not inherently bad. It's a tool and it can be corrupted or can be used for wonderful things. And this is why we need Christian nationalism. I mean, I'm half joking. I don't even know what that phrase means. But yes, we need Christians exercising political power, getting elected, because we can't trust the petulant, spoiled, neo Malthusian, Hillary Clinton, Klaus Schwab, kill the babies and destroy the family, revolutionaries to be trusted with power to take this country in any kind of good direction whatsoever. We need Christian resistance and leadership once again. And why? Because of this long walk through the institutions that's been going on so long. So how do we trace that? Well, in our film and book, the 1916 Project, which, by the way, go to the1916project.com to host a screening at your church or pre order the book. But there's this thing called Godwin's Law. It's like when all you can do is relate things to Hitler. And it's like. And so sometimes I get accused of that because I talk about all these links between the Third Reich and eugenics and Nazism and the American leftists. But we don't go straight back to Hitler. We go Back to like 1798, when a man named Thomas Malthus, who was, by the way, a pastor. Goodness gracious, Thomas Malthus. Ali, for your listeners, is the first Klaus Schwab, Bill Gates. He's the first. There's too many people on planet Earth. And he began to teach and write that population, that food production can't keep up with population growth. So inevitably we would reach a population bomb and people, we'd actually have mass starvation, actually. And so he writes his book, the Essay on the Principle of Population over. Over many, many years. And Charles Darwin read Malthus's writing and it influenced him probably more than any. Any other person. I mean, Thomas Malthus, in his book, Ali called for, like, building our towns near marshy, unwholesome swamps to encourage the outbreak of disease, to curb the population. So those poor people, you know, they won't have kids. And there was this recent clip from Bernie Sanders that proves exactly what I'm talking about. He was running for president, right? 2019, and he went onto a CNN climate catastrophe town hall. So this was about the climate, not about abortion, Ali. And he said, you gotta go to the Wayback Machine to find this. By the way, he said that the way you fight the climate catastrophe, you know, the Sun God, he's so pissed at us, is we have to fund abortions in poor countries. Bernie Sanders said that on national television.
- [52:14]
Ali Stuckey
I mean, they all say that. Kamala Harris has said the same, same thing.
- [52:18]
Seth Gruber
We've got to sacrifice humans because the Sun God, Mother Gaia, right? I mean, Mother Earth, I mean, she's ticked at us. And obviously animals and plants in the Earth are more valuable than humans. And so we just kind of have to sacrifice humans so the sun doesn't burn us all up or we enter an ice age. I don't know, one or the other. So Thomas Malthus encouraged these kinds of things. He was a demon. But Darwin read Malthus's writings, and this is where we get the phrase Neo Malthusianism. So Malthus, Malthusianism, the Sanger called some of her conferences Neo Malthusian conferences.
- [52:47]
Ali Stuckey
She was part of the Malthusian League when she had to take refuge in the UK for getting arrested for publishing information on birth control.
- [52:54]
Seth Gruber
Yep, and we'll, we'll get to that, but good.
- [52:56]
Ali Stuckey
So, sorry, so Darwin, then.
- [52:58]
Seth Gruber
No, no, no, let's jump all over the place. You kind of have to. To put the pieces together. Right, so then Darwin writes Origin of Species and his cousin Francis Galton read Darwin's writings. And I've read enough Galton to know how influential his cousin was on him. He credits Darwin's writings as being the most influential factor in him coining a term years later. That term was eugenics. So he's the modern father of the eugenics movement. Eugenics means good in birth. That's the root. Which means some people are not good in birth. So there's good genes and bad genes. Some people should reproduce and some people should not reproduce. So we went awfully quickly from Darwinism. Survival of the fittest. This is an animal kingdom, and in the animal kingdom alley, the strong survive and the weak die. To the apple not falling far from the tree. In the same family, Francis Galton says, well, actually, the strong must kill the weak in order to survive the elimination of the unfit. So survival of the fittest to elimination of the unfit. Darwinism to eugenics like that, pretty fascinating. Chesterton once said, if Darwinism is the doctrine of the survival of the fitness fittest, then eugenics was the doctrine of the survival of the nastiest. Because who's alive behind the aims of eugenics? Some of the nastiest human beings that you could possibly imagine. Well, then, Galton influences and mentors this guy named Havelock Ellis. Havelock Ellis was the Kinsey equivalent In England. He wrote over a hundred books, troubling on every form of weird sexual libertinism. Okay, let's keep it PG. 13, I guess. And he loved to host orgies in his home. He liked to experiment with hallucinogens while having orgies with both men and women. And he would make his wife watch him while he did these things. So he was a eugenicist. He wrote openly about eugenics. Obviously, he was being mentored by Francis Galton, the modern father of eugenics, eugenics. Havelock Ellis was himself impotent. So he was always trying to find new ways to get excited. Like Alfred Kinsey, by the way, Ali. Like Alfred Kinsey. So when Sanger publishes her magazine in 1914, Woman Rebel with the tagline no gods and no masters. She had been mentored by Emma Goldman, who was an anarchist and communist and another of the proteges of Havelock Ellis. So, I mean, the discipleship here, the secular discipleship here is w. Um, Havelock Ellis mentored Emma Goldman, who published a magazine called Mother Earth. And we've come full circle. Mother Gaia, Yeah. She then mentored Sanger. Sanger was so infatuated by Havelock Ellis that when she fled New York City for breaking the law, for the Comstock Laws, these are anti obscenity laws with her, her weird magazines on. On sexual license and libertinism and illegal forms of birth control methods that were not illegal. Rather than get arrested, she flee to England for 18 months and she Sought out Havelock Ellis. Now, why does all this stuff matter, guys? Because I'm telling you, the history and the seed that became the founding, I think it's fascinating, the largest, one of the largest, best funded and most profitable 501c3 organizations in human history. Planned Parenthood, the largest abortion provider in the world. The largest provider of the comprehensive pornographic sexuality education in America's public schools. Planned Parenthood claims that on their own website. Website. And last year, Planned Parenthood is now the second largest provider of trans drugs for teens, puberty blockers and cross sex hormones. So she spends 18 months and while in England, she meets the Neo Malthusians, and she joins the Neo Malthusians, this belief that there's too many people on planet Earth. Sanger started an affair with Havlock ellis, also with H.G. wells and many, many, many, many other men. Okay, And. And Havelock Ellis coached her to go back to New York and launch her first birth control clinic. But he told her, you know, Singer, you're too intense. You're talking about too much about communism and anarchism. That's not popular in the West. You need to focus on the more scientific sounding themes of Neo Malthusianism and eugenics, because back then these ideas were quite popular among progressives. And so she comes back to New York and that's when, in 1916, she opens the first clinic she's arrested for her and her sister performing illegal birth control methods because they couldn't find any doctors to help them. And when she's released from prison in 1917, she starts her magazine, the Birth Control Review, where we find some of the most vile human beings. Friends and guest writer for her magazine, some of them even serving in Hitler's Third Reich.
- [57:49]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah. I mean, that concept of. I don't know how to pronounce it in German, Rossenhygiene, the, you know, the clean, pure race and eugenics, which, of course, Margaret Sanger championed. I mean, those two things really go hand in hand. They're basically the same concept. Of course, she didn't, as far as we know, have it out for Jews specifically. But of course she had her Negro Project, which was basically a parallel in some ways.
- [58:15]
Seth Gruber
Yeah, yeah. Yes. So, yes, in 1939, she founded the Negro Project. But. But one of the. One of the men who wrote for her magazine, he was an advisor and friend of Margaret Sanger. Ali. He was the founder of the Nazi Society for Racial Hygiene.
- [58:32]
Ali Stuckey
There we go.
- [58:32]
Seth Gruber
What? So listen to me. It's okay. Listener pause. It's okay. Calm down. This is true. You're not wearing a tin hat. Okay. His name is Ernst Rudin. Ernst Rudin. And he wrote an article in Sanger's Birth Control Review. Let me tell you again, this is her magazine. It's where she platformed these ideas and invited her radical eugenicist, neo Malthusian, One world government, too many people on planet Earth, friends from around the globe to write in. By the way, the tagline of that magazine early on said to create a race of thoroughbreds. Okay? So. And Ernst Ruth wrote an article in Planned Parents magazine called Eugenic Sterilization. An urgent need. It's very urgent that we sterilize people that we don't want to have having kids and reproducing. And he had taken an early role in organizing the Nazi Society for Racial Hygiene. He was later Hitler's director of genetic sterilization and Euthanasia program and was called by the Nazi. And this is all in my book, by the way, if you want the receipts. And you're like, seth is a weirdo, that there's no way this is true. It's all in the book.
- [59:39]
Ali Stuckey
It's all in.
- [59:41]
Seth Gruber
The Third Reich. Called Ernst Rudin, the predominant medical presence behind the euthanasia program. I mean, this is like he had actually received an award from Hitler on eugenics. This is Sanger's advisor, friend and guest writer for her magazine. And then in 1921, she founded the American Birth Control League, later renamed Planned Parenthood. Now, talking about the need for the church, Ali, there's this guy named GK Chesterton. He's credited today as the bold, most vocal Christian voice against the eugenicists and the eugenics movement in the West. He wrote an article in the Illustrated London News, where he published every week for over 10 years. This was about nine months before planned Parenthood was founded. And here's what he said. He said, we are not so very far off from even the sacrifice of babies, if not to a crocodile, at least to a creed, the creed of eugenics, the creed of Neo Malthusianism. He saw it all.
- [60:49]
Ali Stuckey
Yes.
- [60:50]
Seth Gruber
Now, when she founded planned parent in 1920. What? Ali Sanger was not intending to do abortions. Now, I have all the proof in my book, the 1916 Project, of her pro abortion tendencies in the late 20s and early 30s. I do believe she favored abortion. A lot of pro lifers say she didn't. I have some receipts that show her pro abortion language that it were very difficult for me to find.
- [61:10]
Ali Stuckey
Why she would have been against it.
- [61:12]
Seth Gruber
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But A lot of people say, no, she wasn't pro abortion. She was just for birth control. And I. I think I can actually disprove that. That. But what did Chesterton see nine months before Planned Parenthood was founded?
- [61:22]
Ali Stuckey
Nine months.
- [61:25]
Seth Gruber
This is going to end in sacrificing babies. He saw it all before anyone else. And so in 1921, when Planned Parenthood is established, and of course, I know we probably have to wrap up soon, but this is one of the most shocking final items of how this all happened. The founding board member of Planned Parenthood was named Lothrop Stoddard. This is so difficult to find that if you Google this name, you'll read a lot of shocking things about him on the first two pages of Google, but hardly any of them, if any of them refer to the fact that he was a founding board member of Planned Parenthood. Lothrop Stoddard was the grand wizard of the Massachusetts kkk, the Ku Klux Klan. He was one of the intellectual leaders of the kkk. Actually, his writings influenced the KKK heavily. So this is the grand wizard of the Massachusetts kkk, Lothrop Stoddard. He wrote a book called the Rising Tide of Color Against White World Supremacy. And then he wrote another book called the Menace of the Underman. Who's the Underman? Black Slavs, Italians, Jews, and the mentally and physically disabled, to name a few. And so they're a menace, and that's the Underman. And this book became so popular in eugenic circles, it was translated into German. And I recently got in mail and we have a picture of it in the film the 1916 Project. I recently purchased a $320 used edition of his book in German that I got from Europe. It's the only one I could find available online because I'm buying this stuff before it's gone and you can't find it anymore. And that word Underman in the German translated edition says the Menace of the Untermensch. Heinrich Himmler later wrote a famous Nazi propaganda book called Untermensch, which later was a way to say subhuman. Yeah, the Jews are subhuman. Now, historians believe that the Nazis did not begin to use the word Untermensch to describe those that they would exterminate until the German translated version of Lothrop Stoddard's book the Menace of the Underman. So Hitler's chief racial theorist, Alfred Rosenberg, appropriated the German term Untermensch from the English version of Lothrop Stoddard's book, the Menace of the Underman. Sanger's guest writer, friend, financier and the founding board member of the largest abortion provider in the world. He was so well loved by the Nazis, Ali, that they invited him to the Third Reich in 1934. And he's the only American to have had a one on one meeting with Hitler after he rose to power.
- [64:07]
Ali Stuckey
Oh my goodness.
- [64:08]
Seth Gruber
So that's just a little bit.
- [64:09]
Ali Stuckey
Just, just a little bit. And people, you know, they don't realize how this ideology still lives on today through people like Warren Buffett. Warren Buffett has been described by people who know him as having a what a Malthusian dread of overpopulation. If you listen to the WF at Davos every year.
- [64:27]
Seth Gruber
That's right.
- [64:28]
Ali Stuckey
What is he talking about? What is Bill Gates talking about? What is even the, you know, all the environmentalists, Klaus Schwab, they're all talking about Bill Gates sat on the board.
- [64:38]
Seth Gruber
Of Planned Parenthood many years.
- [64:39]
Ali Stuckey
Yes, yes. And the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation, some of the biggest funders of abortion throughout the world. We're talking Rockefeller involvement as well.
- [64:50]
Seth Gruber
Yeah, the Rockefellers funded eugenics Nazi scientific research organizations in the Third Reich. Actually it was called the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Anthropology Eugenics and Science in Berlin and it was funded by the Rockefellers. And the guy who led it in the early 30s was Eugene Fisher. And Eugene Fisher had run a concentration camp in German controlled Southwest Africa prior to World War I where he experimented on starved and murdered native Africans and would scalp them and do experiments. Well, in 1927, Sanger hosted the first overpopulation conference. People don't know this. Margaret Sanger hosted the first world conference to address the problem of overpopulation. It was called the World Population Conference in Geneva, Switzerland in 1927. And guess who she invited to come speak at her conference? Eugene Fischer, who was the director of the Wilhelm Institute of Anthropology, Eugenics and Science in Berlin, funded by the Rockefellers. When Eugene Fisher had to step down because he was getting too old, his protege was Otmar von Voucher. Otmar von Vouchor popularized the Nazi party's studies on twins. And his assistant was Joseph Mengele, the angel of death.
- [66:06]
Ali Stuckey
Oh my goodness.
- [66:08]
Seth Gruber
So a few more connections.
- [66:09]
Ali Stuckey
I mean there's, there's so much more. We could literally talk about this. You know, as you were talking, I was thinking, I am going to pray and I hope people out there pray. I really want you to go on Joe Rogan's podcast. I know that's like everyone's dream because he's our prayer team is praying about that. No, but seriously. And not everyone can. And like, I, you know, it's not a good fit for everyone. But he does like to go through history and connections, and you would be the perfect person for that. So I'm going to pray for that. We only have such a small amount of time left, and yet I want to talk very quickly and you can summarize it about the other part of this documentary, because it's not just about making these. These connections as a fascinating part of it. And that definitely had my brain tickling as I was watching it. But the part that made me cry was this beautiful redemptive part that you're talking about. You're talking about this church who is saving babies from the slaughter on a daily basis. It's one of thousands of churches across the country who kind of represent what you're talking about about this White Rose Resistance. So here's my challenge for you and the next couple minutes. Can you tell us about what that good resistance looks like? We've talked about the bad parts of the church. Not doing enough. What does that good resistance look like right now? Why White Rose? Where does that come from? Tell us about that.
- [67:28]
Seth Gruber
Yeah. So I've been aware of the White Rose Resistance for a lot of years because when you're in the pro life movement, you kind of hear the stories of brave heroes who stood against injustices in the past. So I had known their story, but I started studying it a lot in 2020. And it was these kids in their 20s in Nazi Germany, except for one professor, but they were all in their 20s. And there was in Munich in 1942, and one day a young woman named Sophie, who's the namesake of my third child, and my daughter Sophie. She was walking the sidewalks in Munich and she wanted to become a schoolteacher, and she loved Jesus. Her father had spent some time in prison for being too vocal against. Against the Fuhrer. So she came from good stock, and she found this paper on the ground in Munich, and it said, leaflets of the White Rose. And she started reading this, and it was calling out the crimes of eugenics and the evil of the Nazis and asking Christians to stand and to do something. And it said in this leaflet, if you know, why do you not act? It said, we are the White Rose Resistance and we are your bad conscience and we will not leave you alone. And so she's reading this leaflet in 1942, Ali, and she's thinking, my brother Hans talks like this at dinner. Why does this sound like one of my brother's rants?
- [68:44]
Ali Stuckey
Right.
- [68:45]
Seth Gruber
Turns out her 24 year old brother Hans was not only leading but had co founded the White Rose Resistance, this anti Nazi Christian resistance movement. So she demanded to join the White Rose Resistance and she became the only woman and the youngest member of the White Rose. And so they spent the rest of the year writing, staying up late, printing and distributing these illegally around Germany. In 1943 they took things to the next level and on February 18th they walked onto the campus at the University of Munich where we filmed, we filmed there for my movie. And you know Ali, as most people do, but I'll just remind you, the universities like the clergy, had been co opted by the Third Reich, so this was not a safe thing to do. And while class was in session and the halls were quiet, they walked the halls of the University of Munich, dropping these illegal leaks leaflets outside of the classroom doors of the university. And then the bell rings and class begins to be dismissed. And Sophie had 100 leaflets left in her hand. So she ran three stories up to the third floor balcony where I was standing in December, and she threw 100 leaflets three stories down to the atrium of the university below. The janitor, who is a committed Nazi, caught Hans and Sophie in the act, called the Gestapo right there and they were arrested on, on February 18, 1940. 43. Four days later, February 22, they were put on a guillotine and they were beheaded. And in those four days in prison, I think Sophie spoke more prophetically than anyone of her age certainly, and more so than even most believers at that time. And she said, how can we expect righteousness to prevail when there's hardly anyone willing to give themselves up individually to a righteous cause? And she looked out her cell window according to her cellmate, and she said such a fine sunny day and I have to go now, but what does my death matter if through us thousands of people are awakened and stirred to action? One of the things Sophie didn't do is she didn't do, she didn't blame the doers of evil. She knew that the responsibility was on the church. She said, in her final days, she said, said the real damage is caused by all of those millions out there who just want to survive. The honest men and women who just want to be left in peace. Those who don't want their little lives disturbed by anything bigger than themselves, those with no sides and no causes, those who won't take measure of their own strength for fear of antagonizing their own weaknesses. Those who don't like to make waves or enemies. Those for whom freedom, honor truth and preservation principle. It's just literature. Those who live small, die small. It's the reductionistic approach to life. If you keep it small, you'll keep it under control. If you don't make any noise, the boogeyman won't find you. But it's all an illusion because they die too, those people who they who roll up their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be safe. And Sophie said, safe from what? Life is always on the edge of death. She said narrow streets lead to the same place as white avenues and a little candle burns itself out just like the flaming torch does. But I choose my own way to burn. That's a 21 year old who speaks like that.
- [72:20]
Ali Stuckey
Ali not 21 year olds today.
- [72:22]
Seth Gruber
That's a young woman with the lion of the Tribe of Judah roaring inside of her. Yes, those prison guards were so disturbed by this brother, sister, duo, ally that they let them meet with their parents in a side room right before they were taken to the guillotine. And Sophie's mother looked her daughter in the eyes and said, remember Jesus, Sophie. And according to the prison guards who were later interviewed, Sophie said, yeah, but you too mama, you too. Because they were murdered on February 22, 1943. They missed a meeting that had been arranged four days later. They were supposed to meet with Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the founder of the Confessing Church, who had heard about the brave courage of 20 somethings and had come to build the movement of Christian resistance. But they had been beheaded four days before that meeting and they did not show up. So they're national heroes in Germany today. But most Americans don't know the story of the White Rose Resistance.
- [73:24]
Ali Stuckey
I did not.
- [73:25]
Seth Gruber
And so we named our ministry after the White Rose Resistance. We named our daughter Sophie after her name is Sophie Sunshine, after Sophie Scholl of the White Rose Resistance. And why? Because if you've been listening the last 30 minute believer, you see that we're facing the same ideology today. The ideology of neo Malthusian racism and eugenics that decides there are some people who are fit to live and there are some people who are unfit to live. Margaret Sanger called for the elimination of defective stocks and human weeds which threatened the blossoming of the finest flowers of American civilization. End quote. Margaret Sanger so we're facing the same ideology today. Hitler might have had more of a sledgehammer approach to eugenics, while Sanger had more of a scalpel approach to eugenics. Eugenics but it's the same ideology and movement today. And if we can't stand up against what is fundamentally false religion and child sacrifice, who will? And so that's the namesake behind the ministry. And of course, the White Rose is the production of the 1916 project.
- [74:25]
Ali Stuckey
And you also highlight this bold church in North Carolina, Raleigh, Raleigh, North Carolina, North Carolina. Right. And the part that made me cry was the pastor of the church. Remind me his name.
- [74:36]
Seth Gruber
Bishop Wooden.
- [74:37]
Ali Stuckey
Bishop Wooden, yes. You know, they do obviously so much pro life work and they're outside of clinics, they're loving on these moms.
- [74:44]
Seth Gruber
They're an all black church.
- [74:45]
Ali Stuckey
Yes.
- [74:45]
Seth Gruber
Which is fascinating because Sanger and the eugenicists since her have been effective at co opting black leaders, charismatic black social leaders and pastors to push forward the progressive revolution that was the Negro Project, Christianity, Christianese sprinkled on it. And this church has been boldly standing against that agenda and for the family and the unborn for decades.
- [75:08]
Ali Stuckey
So, yeah, yes. And when the bishop said. And it just. Every time I tell this, it makes me choke up. But he just painted this beautiful picture of pro life advocacy and doing everything that you're doing and pro lifers have been doing for so long that Christians have been doing for 2,000 years. When we get to the other side.
- [75:26]
Seth Gruber
Yeah.
- [75:27]
Ali Stuckey
When we get to the other side of eternity, when we get to go glory and we meet someone who comes up to us and says, you don't know me, but I survived that day. Because you pled with my mom. Because you prayed outside the clinic, because you told the truth to the woman who ended up being my mom. How?
- [75:45]
Seth Gruber
That's right.
- [75:45]
Ali Stuckey
Glorious. That is worth everything. Worth every mean message, every bit of pushback, every bit of persecution or prosecution. That is worth it all.
- [75:55]
Seth Gruber
Yeah, that's right. It's, it's, it's been a fun, fundamentally spiritual fight the entire time that manifests in the political and cultural realm. And it's, it's so, it's so demonic and spiritual, Ali, that the left and the abortion movement can't help but quote the scriptures to defend their own beliefs. And what do I mean by that? This is my body, my choice. Right, Right. Those are the words of our Savior at the Last Supper. This is my body and I break it for you. Take and eat in remembrance of me. For I will not eat of this bread or drink of this vine until I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom. And so what's the central phrase and rallying cry of the entire abortion movement today. This is my body. So abortion says, you must die so I can live. But Christ says, no, I must die so you can live. Christ says, this is my body. I break it for you for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. The left says, this is my body and I break you, baby, for me. So abortion is the sacrament actually of the religion of humanity. The Peter Kreeft says abortion is the demonic parody of the Eucharist. And that's why it uses upside down and that's why it uses the same holy words, yes, this is my body, but with the opposite blasphemous meaning. And so now we're having a conversation in this country alley about consuming church children. Because what does Christ say after this is my body? He says, take and eat. So there are makeups today and cosmetic care that are created with aborted fetal tissues. We'll be called a conspiracy theorist for this and we don't have the time to get into it, but it's called adrenochrome. There are leftists who joke about eating fetuses. And I want to say for one of the first times publicly on your show right now, the joke I get from radical abortion activists and left wing troll accounts on my various social media accounts, the joke I get from them the most for years, Ali, is a joke about eating fetuses.
- [78:11]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah.
- [78:12]
Seth Gruber
Now is that a coincidence, Christian? No, because their argument for abortion is this is my body. So naturally, if they're going to quote Jesus, the next thing would be to say take and eat. That's how demonic all of this is.
- [78:29]
Ali Stuckey
Yep. So, and we've seen child sacrifice almost as. It's almost as old as time, of course, with Malek and Malak and what, what has the Christian response always been? It's been to try to save those babies from going to the slaughter. So that's what you're doing. That's what this documentary helps people do. That's what this conversation. I can almost guarantee this conversation is going to reach at least one person who was wavering about this and praise God for that and how he uses his people. Thank you so much. You said it's the 1916 project.
- [79:02]
Seth Gruber
Yeah, with the numbers. So the 1916. Yeah, the 1916 project. Project.com.
- [79:07]
Ali Stuckey
Get the book and, and then tell them how to, how to see it. Because they can't just go buy it.
- [79:13]
Seth Gruber
That's right.
- [79:13]
Ali Stuckey
Document.
- [79:14]
Seth Gruber
So it's screening exclusively in the churches of America right now. Why? Because the church is a solution and we're using it to launch these resistance chapters. All around the country.
- [79:23]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah.
- [79:23]
Seth Gruber
And so the 100916Project.com or the 196Project.com book, you can pre order the book from us. Not baby hating, Christian hating, Amazon or okay, support the Pro Life Ministry, the1916project.com book and you can press host a screening and if you're pastor or an elder at your church or if you're listening pastor, you can host a screening at your church right now. We have hundreds of churches screening it around America right now. Ireland, New Zealand, Australia, South America, screenings happening. So we're working on translations as well for non speaking English speaking countries. The book is called the 1916 Project, the Lying, the Witch and the War we are In. And it's the lies and the witch who mainstream those lies better than anyone else. And the war that's been created, it's 170 pages but it's 230 citations or something like that.
- [80:12]
Ali Stuckey
So if you want, which is why you need to buy the book too. So you can say no, I'm not just making this up. It's right here.
- [80:17]
Seth Gruber
It should have been a three hour documentary, Ali, but no one would watch that. So everything I couldn't fit in the film. It's. It's a 75 minute film I put in the book. So the book is not a mimic of the movie. There's much, much, much, much, much more. And it will be streaming online for free in multiple streaming platforms. So screen this at your church. If I can zoom in live, Pastor, I'll zoom in live and talk with your people. And then the book, the hardcover copy has a timeline we've created that folds out for schools and homeschool moms, that is all the dates and people and it folds up into a sleeve. And the hardcover, only the hardcore hardcover, which you can get at the 1916project.com. So thank you, Ellie.
- [80:58]
Ali Stuckey
Seth, thank you so much. Thanks for your boldness and God has given you such a gift and I'm very thankful for it. So thank you so much.
- [81:04]
Seth Gruber
Thank you so much.