Religion on the Mind — Episode 388

Epstein, Conspiracy Theories & Evangelicalism with Jared Stacy
Release Date: March 23, 2026
Host: Dr. Dan Koch
Guest: Dr. Jared Stacy, theologian, ethicist, ex-evangelical pastor, author of Reality in Ruins: How Conspiracy Theory Became an Evangelical Crisis

Episode Overview

Dan Koch welcomes theologian Jared Stacy to discuss the intersections between conspiracy theories, evangelical Christian thought, power, and the fraught state of contemporary American democracy. The conversation revolves around Jared's new book, Reality in Ruins, engaging the Epstein files, QAnon, the allure and danger of conspiratorial thinking, and how these issues uniquely impact—and are exacerbated by—evangelical communities. Together, they explore the psychology, history, theology, and existential anxieties that fuel conspiracy theories, while reflecting on the challenge of maintaining shared reality, integrity, and healthy personal boundaries in an age of radical polarization.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Conspiracy Theory vs. Conspiracy

• Jared Stacy (04:02):

  "A conspiracy theory is a storytelling act that claims to reveal hidden truths, but always within a narrative that implies a struggle. It's not just interpretation — it's a story about good, evil, and power."

• Noted difference:
  • Conspiracies are real, evidenced collaborations to commit crimes (e.g., the Wannsee Conference planning the Holocaust).
  • Conspiracy theories are oversimplified, narrative-driven, malleable, and often un-falsifiable.

2. The Epstein Case and Lessons about Power

• Recent major revelations from the Epstein files (recorded a week after their drop) have reignited accusations that conspiracy theorists were "right all along."
• Stacy: While real conspiracies (like Epstein’s network) are about complex, multi-stream ("aggregate") power, theories like QAnon dramatically oversimplify and distort the truth.

  "The QAnon conspiracy wasn't proven right... their story included saving the world by Trump and adrenochrome vampire stuff" (15:19).

3. QAnon and the Malleability of Conspiracy Narratives

• Dan Koch: Conspiracy theories like QAnon adapt to setbacks and cannot be easily disproven — "It's not so much a theory as a lifestyle" (15:54).
• Conspiracy theories exhibit "fluid epistemology" — facts or disproven points don’t dislodge belief. Goalposts move repeatedly.

4. Attraction to Conspiracies in Persecuted/Subcultural Contexts

• Theological link: Apocalyptic narratives (e.g., Book of Revelation) offered persecuted Christians an interpretive frame — a practice mirrored by modern conspiracy theorizing among evangelicals (09:31).
• Jared Stacy:

  "Conspiracy theory is especially attractive to people who feel persecuted—and often serves as an uncritical extension of theological narrative."

5. Boundary Situations and Existential Uncertainty

• Dan Koch (22:00):
  Introduces Carl Jaspers' idea of "boundary situations": periods when old explanations no longer work, causing disorientation and anxiety, making simplistic conspiratorial stories attractive.
• Psychological research (2017 paper, see 24:55) documents that conspiracy beliefs rise during large-scale social upheaval or uncertainty — needs for certainty, control, and belonging intensify.

6. Agency Panic and Modernity's Role

• Stacy (35:02):
  Draws on Tim Melley’s term "agency panic": conspiracism erupts when individualistic accounts of agency break down. People reimagine the world in simple, individualistic narratives to preserve the illusion of control, fueled by modernity and capitalism.
• American evangelicalism embraces this individualistic causality, rendering most people ill-equipped for complex, ambiguous realities.

7. Conspiracy Theories: Left, Right, and Everywhere

• Both hosts stress that conspiratorial belief is not confined to the right; it flourished on the left (deep state, anti-CIA, military-industrial complex in punk/left subcultures) (31:49).
• These stories are shaped by the context and needs of the moment, not by ideology alone.

8. Capitalism, Freedom, and Conspiratorial Thinking

• Capitalist logic shapes American/economic individualism and evangelical thought (41:56).
• Stacy references "surveillance capitalism" to explain how digital powers leverage and accelerate aggregations of hidden power, fueling further distrust.
• Quote (42:59):

  "We're heading towards a world where capitalism without democracy is in vogue."

9. Theological Critique: Evangelicalism and Complicity

• Stacy critiques white evangelicalism’s persecution complex and complicity in American retrenchment, tying its dominance not to divine grace but historic alliances of Christianity with power (44:13).

  "Christianity has always been at hand to sanction itself as it becomes an accessory to terror."

• His mission: To destabilize simplistic theological frameworks, invite Christians into precarity and uncertainty—where, he claims, authentic faith is found.

10. Existential and Clinical: What Conspiracy Reveals about Us

• The existential perspective (Koch): There is always uncertainty; “boundary situations” only make this explicit. Healthy response is not panic, but realism—accepting the limits of our control and responsibility within them (49:30).
• Both stress the importance of loving those within one’s actual sphere, rather than seeking cosmic-level agency or easy scapegoats.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Malleability of Conspiracy Theories
  "You can't disprove them, the goalpost keeps moving. That's why conspiracy theories are a toxic, radioactive storytelling element." — Jared Stacy (17:12)
• On Diagnosing Conspiracy Thinking
  "Conspiracy theory doesn't need to be understood primarily as a pathological or clinical condition...it’s everywhere. Left and right just host different versions." — Jared Stacy (27:05)
• On the Need for Certainty
  "One of the costs is: it costs you whatever the benefit was of having the explanation be so simple." — Dan Koch (17:10)
• On Agency Panic and Modernity
  "We want to believe, because we’re modern people, that the world works the way we think it does...conspiracy theories erupt when our individualistic account of agency fails." — Jared Stacy (35:02)
• On the Church's Witness and Political Power
  "Evangelicalism has been wildly successful. But why is that? Is it because the hand of God is on this movement? Or is it because we’re participating in a generational long story in which Christianity is used to sanctify retrenchment and power?" — Jared Stacy (44:13)
• On Friendship and Shared Reality
  "There is a level below which...thick and robust relationships are not possible, without shared basic reality." — Dan Koch (96:00)
• Stacy on hope and stubbornness:
  "A witness to Jesus Christ is not dependent on the responses to that witness." (85:19)

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Time | Topic | |---------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:24 | Episode setup; introduction of Jared & background context | | 04:02 | Defining conspiracy theory vs. real conspiracy (Epstein files) | | 09:00 | Storytelling & QAnon: Why conspiracy theory isn’t simply incorrect | | 15:10 | Simplicity, lifestyle, and malleability of conspiracy theories | | 22:00 | Boundary situations, existential psychology, and collective anxiety | | 30:06 | Left/right conspiracy thinking: cultural and historical examples | | 35:02 | Agency panic, modernity, and the limits of individualism | | 41:32 | Capitalism, surveillance, and shaping belief/freedom | | 44:13 | Evangelicalism, power, and the theological underbelly of conspiracism | | 49:30 | Existential approach and responsibility in uncertainty | | 62:11 | Is this even the same religion? Theological fractures and Christianity| | 72:36 | The first commandment, idolatry, and making God in our image | | 75:54 | Can hermeneutics still reach anyone? Grappling with lost ground | | 84:56 | How do we relate to loved ones lost to conspiracy? Personal boundaries| | 91:17 | What next? Expanding horizons and taking the long historical view | | 96:00 | Friendship, shared reality, and the pain of disconnection |

Thematic Conclusions

• Conspiracy theories flourish in times of anxiety, when individuals seek simple explanations to bolster threatened senses of control and belonging. Evangelical communities, with deep apocalyptic and persecution narratives, are particularly vulnerable (22:00; 27:05).
• Conspiratorial thinking crosses ideological divides: It is not confined to the right, although currently most visible there (30:06).
• Power is always aggregating in complex, often hidden, ways—but conspiracy theories flatten complexity and provide false agency (35:02).
• Evangelical complicity with American power, especially among white communities, is not just political, but deeply theological—a fact Stacy calls into question.
• The healthiest response to uncertainty is existential realism and humble responsibility for the small but real spheres we do control; obsession with total control or moral certainty is not only false, but destructive (49:30; 53:44).
• Relationship boundaries are essential. The pain of lost common ground is real—but hope lies in expanding the circle of honest, shared discussion, and not in waiting for mass repentance or vindication. Koch and Stacy both advocate for new institutions and spaces for meaning-making and support (91:17; 96:00).

Final Reflections

• Stacy and Koch encourage listeners to accept the slow, difficult work of discerning truth and nurturing connection amidst polarization, rather than gravitating toward easy certainties or withdrawing in despair.
• Both end on an invitation to honesty and humility: whether about regrets, theological uncertainty, or our own growth, the challenge is to remain open—to oneself, to others, and to truth, however fragmented or painful.

Book: Reality in Ruins: How Conspiracy Theory Became an Evangelical Crisis by Jared Stacy — out now.

Contact and further resources:

• Podcast: Religion on the Mind
• For more on “boundary situations” and the "Photonegative Approach," listen to adjacent episodes in the "Kind of Anxious Times" mini-series.
• Archive episodes on conspiracy and evangelicalism: #74, #100, #207.

“What if it’s always the end of the world?” — Emily St. John Mandel, quoted by Jared Stacy (56:30)