Max Gets Her Groove Back featuring Anwar White

Summary

ReLiving Single – Episode Summary: "Max Gets Her Groove Back"

Podcast: ReLiving Single
Episode: Max Gets Her Groove Back featuring Anwar White
Date: September 10, 2025
Hosts: Erika Alexander & Kim Coles
Special Guest: Anwar White

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Overview

This episode dives into Living Single’s Season 1, Episode 17: “The Hand That Robs the Cradle.” Hosts Erika Alexander (Maxine Shaw) and Kim Coles (Synclaire James), alongside guest dating coach Anwar White, discuss the iconic "May-December" romance between Max and a much younger college student, Brendan (portrayed by Terrence Howard in an early role). The conversation explores age-gap relationships, societal double standards, sexual dynamics, dating advice for Black and brown women, and the cultural impact of Living Single.

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Episode Breakdown & Key Discussion Points

Revisiting "The Hand That Robs the Cradle" (03:05–13:00)

• Plot Recap:

  • A Story: Max dates Brendan, a 7-years-younger NYU freshman, and tries to keep it from her friends.
  • B Story: Regine throws an advertiser's gala on a tight budget.
  • C Story: Kyle grapples with needing (and refusing) glasses due to vanity.

• Behind-the-Scenes Nostalgia:

  • Erika and Kim recall working with a young Terrence Howard, praising his charisma and later success.
  • Discussion about being “man magnets,” humorously touching on their own experiences, and how intelligence is a key draw for Max (06:39).

Quote:
"Max is a man magnet because… she doesn’t need them, by the way, she loves sex. But... she’s also attracted to people who have intelligence. And they are attracted to her because of her mind." – Kim Coles (06:39)

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Exploring Age-Gap Relationships: On the Show & In Real Life (07:28–13:52)

• Nuanced Talk on Age Differences:

  • The hosts examine why age differences feel more pronounced at certain life stages.
  • Comfort with relationships changes as people mature; “seven years at some other time might be absolutely fine.” (09:43)

• Max and Brendan’s Chemistry:

  • Kim discusses the performative nature of chemistry onscreen, acknowledging the awkwardness of social expectations and “getting caught out like that.” (11:17)
  • The importance of agency and living life without always feeling accountable to others’ opinions.

• Societal Double Standards:

  • Older women with younger men are labeled “cougars,” with connotations very different from older men dating younger women.
  • Erika jokes: “Actually, I don't like cougar. I say that I'm an ocelot. Cause I can't run that fast.” (00:18 & 40:55)

• Sexual Politics & Humor:

  • Erika and Kim riff on stereotypes of male and female sexual peaks, with plenty of laughter and playful banter.

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Directing & Performing Living Single (14:36–17:53)

• Behind the Scenes:
  • Deep dive into filming dynamics: why kitchen scenes felt so alive and theatrical, importance of physical staging, and director Ellen Gitelson’s attention to camera work.
  • Improv within the script: Emphasis on sticking to written lines for comedic timing but finding freshness in performance.

Quote:
"Our improv is mostly inside a performance… practice knowing the lines and then delivering them like you don't know them." – Kim Coles (16:33)

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The Big Confrontation & Emotional Maturity (21:28–23:53)

• Powerful Scene Discussion:
  • Max ends things with Brendan, recognizing the emotional complexity of their age gap, and waiting for a time when they're better matched.
  • Praising Terrence Howard’s performance and the scene's mature, non-blaming tone.

Quote:
"So you two in this scene are looking at your responsibility. It's like, I like you. I'm falling for you. It doesn't seem like the right timing. And so it's a very mature conversation without blaming or naming or shaming. Just like, see you later, maybe." – Erika Alexander (25:56)

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May-December Romance Reflections & Life Lessons (27:05–30:26)

• Age, Sex, and Confidence:
  • Erika and Kim openly discuss changing sexual confidence with age, comfort in one’s body, and the expanded “buffet” of life and love experiences.
  • Emphasize embracing freedom and self-acceptance that often comes in later decades.

Quote:
"I am much more comfortable naked now than I ever was in my 20s." – Erika Alexander (28:08)

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The Reverb: Expert Break Down with Anwar White (34:46–59:48)

Introducing Anwar White (35:05)

• Dating coach, creator of Get Your Guy Coaching, and “dating fairy godbrother” with a focus on helping Black and brown women find healthy relationships.

Is Age Gap Still Taboo? (35:44–37:45)

• Societal taboos persist mainly for age gaps greater than 10 years, but women are increasingly “choosers, not waiting to be chosen.”
• Most of Anwar’s clients are with men 3–6 years younger and he actively recommends Black women date younger men.

Quote:
_"I actually recommend that Black women specifically get with younger men. And one, because y'all don't age for sure, so y'all gonna look the same age anyway." – Anwar White (36:14)**

Navigating Pressures & Power Imbalances (37:45–39:43)

• Discusses insecurities: running out of time, fear of being left for younger partners, family and societal judgment.
• Warns against secret "DL" dating that leads to isolation and lower relationship satisfaction:
  “The most dangerous thing that you can do because then you're in isolation … You need what I call your love jury.” (39:32)

Key Factors in Age-Gap Dating (41:23–42:52)

• Alignment on non-negotiables (kids, career, lifestyle).
• Manage power dynamics and financial balance, have strong boundaries, be comfortable with aging and shifting roles.

Cultural and Gendered Conditioning (44:53–46:19)

• Explains extra challenges for Black women: being raised stoic, difficulty expressing vulnerability, lack of boundary modeling—all essential to healthy modern relationships.

Biology, Sexual Peaks, and Energy Shifts (46:35–48:56)

• Discusses sexual and emotional peaks, why women in their 40s–50s may find younger partners more appealing.
• Highlights changing masculine/feminine energy as both men and women age:
  “There’s a beautiful thing that happens around 45 and 50… Women are having more testosterone and men are losing theirs. There’s a switch of the masculine and feminine energy.” (48:56)

Media’s Role & Representation (49:15–50:43)

• Living Single portrayed the awkwardness and beauty of age-gap romances with authenticity and humor, especially capturing how such relationships can help Black women reconnect with fun and playfulness.

Internet Dating Debates & Archetypes (50:43–58:39)

• Anwar critiques modern debates about “what do you bring to the table” as unhelpful power struggles and prescribes seeking partners with emotional skills, not just opinions.
• Assigns Living Single characters dating archetypes:
  • Max: Emotionally unavailable queen—needs to lean into vulnerability.
  • Khadijah: “Boss lady”—should learn to ask for help.
  • Regine: High-maintenance queen seeking validation—must identify self-worth.
  • Sinclair: Kind romantic—needs to set boundaries.

Quote:
"Ultimately, … the biggest opportunity for Sinclair was setting boundaries. … She would be attracting a lot of toxic and narcissistic men that would take her kindness for weakness." – Anwar White (56:50)

Recommendations for Listeners (58:15–59:48)

• Therapy and self-work are encouraged, especially bell hooks’ All About Love.
• Identifies the value in seeking wisdom from elders and maintaining a supportive "love jury."

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "She’s not robbing the cradle. She’s challenging the system. She’s challenging the status quo." – Kim Coles (60:03)
• "Do I sound like a whore now? … Well, a little bit, but I listen and I don't judge." – Kim Coles & Erika Alexander, joking about sexual confidence (29:52)
• "Call the police. Call the popo. Call the popo on Terrence." – Kim Coles (26:55), on age reversals in life vs. story

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Fun Behind-the-Scenes Fan Q&A (60:01–63:39)

• Discovery: The iconic “Woo hoo” heard at episode’s close is voiced not by any cast member, but by series creator Yvette Lee Bowser (61:01).
• The famous opening credits dance: Filmed to a “jamming” track—no one recalls exactly what song it was, but cast all agree they “threw down.” (62:00–62:48)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:04–02:22 – Banter, age-gap romance jokes
• 03:05–13:00 – Episode overview & scene analysis
• 14:36–17:53 – Directing/acting deep dive
• 21:28–25:56 – Max and Brendan’s maturity and parting scene
• 27:05–30:26 – Confidence with age, sexual empowerment
• 34:46–59:48 – Reverb: In-depth talk with Anwar White on age gaps, dating, archetypes
• 60:01–63:39 – Listener Q&A: fan questions, behind-the-scenes lore

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Episode Tone

Warm, cheeky, and unfiltered, with tons of humor, honesty, and thoughtful analysis. Both hosts remain candid and irreverent. Anwar brings compassion, directness, and a sense of inclusion for Black women’s dating experiences.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Age-gap relationships bring opportunities and unique challenges—honest conversations, alignment, and support systems are key.
• Living Single continues to create space for nuanced conversations about sex, love, aging, and Black women’s choices.
• Vulnerability, self-work, and intergenerational support are essential for finding healthy, happy relationships.
• The hosts’ camaraderie and lived experience, backed by expert advice from Anwar White, provide both laughs and real wisdom.

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Not to Miss:

• Erika and Kim’s unfiltered asides on sex, confidence, and showbiz timelines (especially 28:03–30:26)
• Anwar’s “love archetype” breakdown (54:04–57:26)
• The story behind the “woo-hoo” and Living Single’s legacy dance scenes (60:58–63:39)

Transcript

[Erica Alexander]

Coming up on Reliving Single. So here we have Terrence Howard.

[Kim Coles]

So I was not macking him. He was macking me. Call. Call the police. Call the popo.

[Erica Alexander]

I need a little rest now.

[Kim Coles]

I'm hearing heartbeat, and I'll make a joke. And Amber, look at me. Like, I'm gonna Google that later. And I'm like, what? What you Googling?

[Erica Alexander]

Actually, I don't like cougar. I say that I'm an ocelot. Cause I can't run that fast.

[Kim Coles]

No, we trying to break down this whole age gap romance thing.

[Erica Alexander]

Have y' all had.

[Kim Coles]

You know how young he is? He's 18. He having sex every day, three, four times a day. With him, maybe.

[Erica Alexander]

With men, it's like, the first sign of, like, aging. And. And what does that mean now?

[Kim Coles]

It means their penis won't work so well.

[Erica Alexander]

Okay. You and your nipples. Can we get off your neck?

[Kim Coles]

That's what I'm talking about now. I can get with that. And that makes me orgasm. N. Welcome back to Reliving Single, the official unofficial Living Single rewatch podcast. Well, this week's episode is all about me. December romances, AKA old people dating younger people. And I have an expert with me here today, Kim Cole.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, I don't know if I'm an expert, but I have dipped my toe into the younger pods. Have some experience with younger men. I've dated several younger men, so that's me.

[Kim Coles]

That's cool. I mean, right now you like me.

[Erica Alexander]

What can I say?

[Kim Coles]

You rocking it with a millennial?

[Erica Alexander]

No, actually, no. No, Dr. E.J. is not a millennial. He's actually an ex. And here's how.

[Kim Coles]

He's on the cusp. He's hanging on like this.

[Erica Alexander]

He was born in 74, so I think the number for millennial is. It starts at 1980. He was born in 74. But I'm a young boomer. I'm 62. And boomers end at 64. So I'm almost X. I'm ex adjacent. So it's only 12 years difference.

[Kim Coles]

Well, fine. Okay. Thank you, Ms. Robinson. I mean Kim. Let's get to today's episode.

[Erica Alexander]

Those who lead deserve a car that.

[Kim Coles]

Leads with them, because a car that.

[Erica Alexander]

Doesn'T move you is a car that falls short of amazing.

[Kim Coles]

That's the Lexus standard. The standard of amazing.

[Erica Alexander]

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[Anwar White]

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[Erica Alexander]

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[Erica Alexander]

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[Anwar White]

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[Erica Alexander]

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[Anwar White]

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[Kim Coles]

All right, so this is living single, season one, episode 17, the hand that Robs the Cradle. Good God. All right, in our A story, Maxine Shaw finds herself unexpectedly smitten with Brendan, a charming, immature NYU freshman. Embarrassed about the age gap, Max tries to keep the relationship from her peers and cause she don't want no judgmental friends. But meanwhile, in the Beast story, Regine is attempting to throw an advertiser's gala on a shoestring budget. And in this episode, we actually have a C story as well, where Kyle wrestles with the indignity of needing glasses and refuses to wear them out of vanity. I wonder where that came from. What? Kyle Vane. What?

[Erica Alexander]

So it's written by Dani Margosas and Robert Horne, directed by Ellen Falcon Gitelson, and our special guest, Terrence Howard. We've got Louis Dix Jr. Who we love, Chip Fields, who we also love, who makes another appearance. And so that's our episode. It's time for the rewind where we watch and relive living single with you. Excuse me, but aren't you Maxine Shaw?

[Kim Coles]

Yes. Well, I just wanted to tell you.

[Erica Alexander]

I thought your presentation on criminal law was outstanding. Very inspiring.

[Kim Coles]

Well, it's what I do. Work it.

[Anwar White]

Mrs. Robinson.

[Erica Alexander]

You know, before I met you, I.

[Kim Coles]

Had no idea what I was even gonna major in.

[Erica Alexander]

But now I am seriously considering a career in law.

[Kim Coles]

Well, it's a lot of hard work, but there's nothing more fulfilling than embracing the law with the respect that it deserves and then beating your opponent upside the head with it.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, if you get any spare time.

[Kim Coles]

I do have some more in depth.

[Erica Alexander]

Questions I'd like to ask. So here we have Terrence Howard, who has now gone on to unbelievable, wonderful success. And he's so charming.

[Kim Coles]

Yes, yes. I mean, that's Oscar nominated. Terrence Howard was Oscar nominated for Hustle and Flow.

[Erica Alexander]

That's right.

[Kim Coles]

Obviously, we know him from his work in Iron man and Empire. Yes, I actually did another series with him later on called Street Time. So we worked together later on and know him very well. But here he is. Baby face.

[Erica Alexander]

Baby face. But man candy.

[Kim Coles]

Man candy. He's a lollipop.

[Erica Alexander]

Is he a lollipop?

[Kim Coles]

Well, no. I mean, here. So he's the lollipop.

[Erica Alexander]

We supposed to.

[Kim Coles]

We supposed to want to.

[Erica Alexander]

Is he your type? Is he your type?

[Kim Coles]

Terrence Howard is a very fascinating man. I mean, he's into physics and, you know, futurism and, you know, plays the piano and guitar and all that. So there's a lot of things. But maybe I know him so well that I can't say that he's my type, but he's certainly an interesting dude.

[Erica Alexander]

Okay.

[Kim Coles]

No doubt about it.

[Erica Alexander]

Do you. Max is a man magnet. You know, the students are attracted to her. Cause Brendan really compliments her in her work and her mind.

[Kim Coles]

I mean, that would be asking me, am I a man magnet? So I've got to say, based on my life experience, yes, Max is a man magnet. She can't help it, you know, I'm playing her man. I've always been a man magnet and this is the truth. Oh, yeah. Don't play her hate. I see some, you know, jealousy in your eyes.

[Erica Alexander]

Really? Neither one of us have had a dearth of men. Men's attention. Listen, listen. Come on now. It ain't been our problem no time, no time, no time at all.

[Kim Coles]

Come on. We could write a book on that.

[Erica Alexander]

I need a little rest now, to be honest with you. Come on now. That ain't our thing. Now that ain't our thing.

[Kim Coles]

I know that's right. Well, yes. So she is a man magnet because. Partially because she doesn't need them, by the way, she loves sex. But I think she's a mad magnet because yes, she's down, she loves men. But also, you know what? I'll need to pay my rent. I don't need to do that. We gonna have some fun and do all that other stuff and so I don't look like it's all sex. I want to mention that she's also attracted to people who have intelligence. And they are attracted to her because of her mind. So it is a two way street.

[Erica Alexander]

And here's this young man who, if he's at nyu, that means he's really smart, he's been to your lecture, he's gonna be attract. Obviously we'll find out if he's attracted to the outside, but he's attracted to the mind too. That says a lot about him. I'm ready to answer your in depth questions.

[Kim Coles]

Ew. How about this for the buffet table?

[Erica Alexander]

An ice swan surrounded by calla lilies.

[Kim Coles]

And a dozen white doves.

[Erica Alexander]

You got $200.

[Kim Coles]

Hey, nice look, Mr. Magoo. What did Junior have to say? Actually, he had quite a bit to say. He has a Very interesting way of seeing things. And he asked me some really good questions, like, what are you doing Saturday night? No, he asked me on Friday.

[Erica Alexander]

I knew it. I know a Mac when I see one. Well, I bet he's home right now planning a romantic evening, huh?

[Kim Coles]

Candlelight, two Happy Meals.

[Erica Alexander]

So we know that Regine is an expert at entertaining and creating this experience. And she wants to create a great experience for Khadijah. And we know that Khadijah is like, I just don't have the budget for that.

[Kim Coles]

So Khadijah is cheap. I don't know what she expected that she's a miser.

[Erica Alexander]

Maybe she's just frugal. You know, we're saying she's cheap, but maybe she's just being frugal and being smart about where she's spending her money.

[Kim Coles]

She's a survivor. I mean, she gotta survive, right?

[Erica Alexander]

But she had the idea of doves and all this stuff that was just. It's too much.

[Kim Coles]

It's a lot.

[Erica Alexander]

And not needed, I think.

[Kim Coles]

Well, I know, but from her point of view, if you ask her to do it, she's gonna gotta bring her flair. And you ain't giving her any resources to work with, so. I understand that. Right.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, first of all, let me just have a moment for Kyle's turtleneck. I love a man in a turtleneck. So we're talking about all this man candy and the lollipop that Terrence Howard is. But what about Terrance? TC Carson lollipop?

[Kim Coles]

Absolutely.

[Erica Alexander]

And he walks in knowing that we were probably gonna tease him, but Overton has set us up, as you said. But he looks really good.

[Kim Coles]

Do you think that Max can dish it out, but she can't take it?

[Erica Alexander]

Of course. Of course.

[Kim Coles]

I think she takes it pretty well. But everybody's on her. It's not just Kyle. Brr.

[Erica Alexander]

It's all of us.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. Brendan is young girl, but she's not exactly, I think, in scary territory. For me, I think that seven years is okay. It's just the fact that he is a student and she's a professional. To me, that's more of the thing.

[Erica Alexander]

And it's these seven years, you know, it's this particular stage, you know, she's already begun her career and he's just starting. So seven years at some other time might be absolutely fine.

[Kim Coles]

But I gotta say, I don't think the glasses look that bad on T.C.

[Erica Alexander]

No. Maybe it's a sign of what's falling apart. So first it's the glasses, then it's my Gut. Then it's my wrinkle. You know, maybe the glasses. And, you know, also gray hair. You know, EJ found the first of gray hairs in his beard, is like, ah. What does this mean? So maybe there's a thing about aging, you know, for women. I think it's, you know, maybe wrinkles.

[Kim Coles]

Or a little droop or a little droop or definitely.

[Erica Alexander]

Or the hormones droop. But I think maybe with men, it's like the first sign of, like, aging. And what does that mean now?

[Kim Coles]

It means their penis won't work so well.

[Erica Alexander]

They have tools for that. Max, this last week with you has been incredible.

[Kim Coles]

I know. I was there. Damn.

[Erica Alexander]

What's wrong?

[Kim Coles]

Oh, I forgot. I hate this place.

[Erica Alexander]

Oh, hey there, Max.

[Kim Coles]

Brandon, right?

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah, that's him. Hello again.

[Kim Coles]

What do you mean it? Bullies?

[Erica Alexander]

We're not bullies. We're concerned. Yes, we're enjoying the moment.

[Kim Coles]

The squirmation.

[Erica Alexander]

Cause you haven't told us. No, you know, you tell. Listen, you tell Khadijah everything. She's one of your best friends, but we know nothing. So you all seem to have a lot of chemistry. Was that chemistry real for you? I mean, you, Erica, not Max.

[Kim Coles]

Well, I don't think so. I mean, I think that he's a fantastic performer, and I try to just match, you know, where everyone is and also, you know, do my gig, which is to. Look, if I'm supposed to dig you, I'm gonna dig you.

[Erica Alexander]

Right? Okay.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. But I can't say it was real for me. I mean, you know, I like, within the story, their age difference is there, and chemistry is also, you know, working for them. But really, it's about the social, you know, pressure. You know, getting caught out like that is crazy. I mean, you feel for her.

[Erica Alexander]

Oh, you do. And this is also somebody who's an attorney, and you have an incredible amount of integrity. And so to be caught really is uncomfortable, I would imagine. Do you think it would have been better for you to tell us?

[Kim Coles]

No, I think she was right. Because if she was going to do it and sort of maybe relax into it without having the opinions of people, sometimes you just got to live your life. There's a pressure to say, oh, you got to tell people this. You need to tell people that. Yes, I do believe that you should have some kind of dialogue going with people you trust. But if they're making you feel weird about it, and then. But when you're in that person's presence, there's a real thing, then explore it without. Yeah, you don't need big brother looking over your shoulder and. But I also don't believe that she's a cradle robber. She is not robbing the cradle. 25 and 18 is seven years. She's.

[Erica Alexander]

He's legal.

[Kim Coles]

Exactly. And most people who are 25 just graduated law school. Now, she must be a prodigy. She must be, because she's got a whole career and she's even got a reputation. So there's something to her that I think, you know, may have worked very hard in life and needs that. That fun, you know, Needs that lightness. That lightness. And so I think she's attracted to that.

[Erica Alexander]

All right.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, Kyle, you dated younger women. Yes, but that's normal.

[Erica Alexander]

All right, everybody quiet.

[Kim Coles]

I got to hear this one.

[Anwar White]

It is a scientific fact that women.

[Kim Coles]

Mature sooner than men.

[Anwar White]

Therefore, it is only natural for us to try to get to them before gravity does.

[Kim Coles]

It is also a proven fact that women reach their sexual pico somewhere around 40, while men burn out at 19. So when I'm getting the gold at the sexual Olympics, you have wrung out your towel and hung it up to dry. Max, we in your corner. If Brendan is your man, he's our man.

[Erica Alexander]

This is my party. I want you to be there.

[Kim Coles]

Okay, we'll be there. Good.

[Erica Alexander]

And you can tell Brendan he can park his big wheel in my.

[Kim Coles]

Hilarious.

[Erica Alexander]

Hilarious.

[Kim Coles]

Yes. So it's a great scene.

[Erica Alexander]

So here we are teasing you mercilessly, and you are invited to bring Brendon to the party because the more the merrier, and you say yes. Why do you think that Max said yes?

[Kim Coles]

Because Max can't say stand down from a challenge. She just can't. And she can't let them win. She ain't gonna run from it. If she does, how does that make her look with those people?

[Erica Alexander]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Kim Coles]

She gonna lose her street cred.

[Erica Alexander]

That's right.

[Kim Coles]

It ain't gonna happen. Not on her watch.

[Erica Alexander]

Right.

[Kim Coles]

Now, I gotta ask you, because this is a scene where we're all in the kitchen in a different space than the living room. Did you like doing those scenes? Cause I did.

[Erica Alexander]

I loved doing the scenes in the kitchen. Yes, I really did. Because, first of all, we were standing most of the time. There was a table on the side so some of us could sit, but most of us had to be standing. And we were moving about the space, you know, going in the fridge and getting something to eat. You were going to the cabin, going into our cabinets and getting spices and things and salt. So I loved it. Why did you love it?

[Kim Coles]

I love It. Because it's in theater, and this is theater, you know, without a doubt. And those things, the energy goes up. You have everyone's energy coming into that space. And everybody is delicately balancing their. Not only their performance, but also what Kim Fields would say, not pulling focus, knowing that you were performing behind someone's shot and eating gives the audience a nice little. It just makes it rich and complex.

[Erica Alexander]

You have a nice depth happening.

[Anwar White]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

And it feels like, as you say, a dance. And that's. We gotta give props to Ellen Gitelson. So that's direction. If what you're seeing is us cross each other going to cabinets, doing all these things very silently, too. You just can't go and stomp around. You have to know when to place. You sometimes wait to place glass, or they. Or you put something soft there so we don't hear, you know, a heavy thing. There's all these things happening to make sure that no one gets distracted.

[Erica Alexander]

You know, the magic of that happens in rehearsal. And I remember asking her and to this, okay, something I just realized. I remember asking her, you know, I know it says that I do this, but I really feel like I would go and do this, and she would say, try it, try it. And let's see, we can make it work. And to this day, when I'm on a set and it says, well, it says that I do this, but, you know, I think I would have something else in my hand. And most directors will go, we'll try it. Let's see if we can make it work. Cause if that makes you feel better in the space, because this was our home and your home by default, so why wouldn't you want to feel comfortable in that space? So I loved the kitchen.

[Kim Coles]

She was great about that. She was great. And when people want to know whether we're improving the lines, I used to say our improv is mostly inside a performance. Because one thing about comedy is that when something is written, you know, you kind of have to deliver the line a certain way so the other person can throw their line back. And if you transpose it any way or sometime flip the sentence, it doesn't land right. The other person kind of fumbles. So you practice knowing the lines and then delivering them like you don't know them. And you find the freshness in the performance. And so a good director gives you a lot of leeway for that. But she's also reigned us in, right. Because she's got to balance where the cameras are and saying, I can't find you in camera one. Go over there. That type of thing. And those cameras. She's in there with a clicker. She's. And she's in the booth with this click. This big click, click, click.

[Erica Alexander]

She said that, you know, because they, you know, they often snap, but your fingers get tired after they look.

[Kim Coles]

Clicker, right. Yeah. So she had a clicker. And that's them snapping the red light. When we see it on the camera, boom. We know it's on us. And all these things are happening all at the same time that people can't know that we're all paying attention to. It's a great kitchen scene, so I gotta give props. Out. Okay, good.

[Erica Alexander]

My mom tried to make me take dance classes, but now that I'm 18, I do what I want as long.

[Kim Coles]

As I keep my room clean, you know? Excuse us. We're gonna go get some punch. Yes, do that.

[Erica Alexander]

Brendan seems like an okay guy.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, he's all right.

[Erica Alexander]

So, what's he doing with Max?

[Kim Coles]

Yes, I'm still with Evans, Bell and Associates. Are you still with Braxton and Waters?

[Erica Alexander]

Actually, I'm up for partner since Waters was indicted. Oh. And what do you do, Brandon?

[Kim Coles]

He's an education. Oh, I guess that's one way of putting it. I'm a student at nyu.

[Erica Alexander]

Oh. Maybe you know my daughter, Gina Jones? She's a sophomore there. Well, she is a year ahead of me.

[Kim Coles]

Excuse us.

[Erica Alexander]

Hey.

[Kim Coles]

Hey. So that flavor party is on, and $200 looks good. It actually looks good.

[Erica Alexander]

It doesn't look cheap at all. She made it work. That's good.

[Kim Coles]

And Max is out with her, man.

[Erica Alexander]

Right.

[Kim Coles]

You know, this is the big thing that she was afraid of. But here she is, and she's starting to deal with the fact that out, you know, in the open, everything done in the dark must come into light. We're starting to now see the cracks in it. In her world, she's gonna talk to a colleague that says, hey, you know. You know, what do you do to Brendan? And he says, he goes to nyu. She tries to cover it, but he says, nyu. And she says, oh, my daughter goes there. I mean, that's some what.

[Erica Alexander]

And she's a sophomore. So now we're about to find out that she's older than this kid.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, the daughter.

[Erica Alexander]

The daughter, right.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. And that's Max's colleague. So how does it make her feel? Max is not that old. But seven years when you're young is a lot.

[Erica Alexander]

Oh, exactly. Let's talk about how good Terrence Howard looks in that. I didn't remember that There was a Mona Lisa on his tie. And the vest looks so good. He looked handsome.

[Kim Coles]

He's very handsome. You know, I think that still stands up to this day. If you came in, you know, maybe not the big, you know, shoulder pads.

[Erica Alexander]

By the way, that colleague was played by Chip Fields. Yes, the one and only Chip Fields, also known as Chip Herd now. And so love having her there in that scene. And you can see where she clocks it, like, oh, she gets it.

[Kim Coles]

She gets what's going on. And also, she's a little confused, like, what's going on? But he also is lacking cultural references, important cultural references that. I mean, imagine you sitting at a table and you might make a reference. Like, right now. It happens to me all the time. I'm hearing heartbeat, and I'll make a joke. Amber, look at me. Like, I'm gonna Google that later. And I'm like, what? What you Googling? I have just spotted the future Mrs. Kyle Park.

[Erica Alexander]

Kyle, I saw her first, man.

[Kim Coles]

If you say so.

[Anwar White]

Look at that poise, that elegance.

[Kim Coles]

You need to look at that through your glance. Oh, the horror. Kyle.

[Erica Alexander]

What TC Is able to do with his vocal cords is just because on the page, I'm sure it just said, oh, the horror. But he went, oh, the horror.

[Kim Coles]

The great comedy timing of putting on your glasses and then just waiting for you, for everything.

[Erica Alexander]

Watch how his body shifts.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah.

[Erica Alexander]

He takes his beat. Oh, the horror.

[Kim Coles]

It's not that you're young that bothers me.

[Erica Alexander]

Okay, then what is it?

[Kim Coles]

It's that you're young, and I'm really starting to like you. Why don't you give me a call.

[Erica Alexander]

When you're mature enough to handle this?

[Kim Coles]

I got midterms to study for.

[Erica Alexander]

Okay.

[Kim Coles]

All right, look, why don't we give us a little bit more time?

[Erica Alexander]

One of my favorite parts of that scene is Terrance's eyes light all the way up. Like, you see all this beauty, all these beautiful eyeballs, you know, you both. And he just. There's a smile on his face that is so. It feels genuine to me. Like, ooh, look.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, it is. You know, and also, that's when he looks the youngest, when he's.

[Erica Alexander]

Oh, yeah, like, grinning like, oh, we.

[Kim Coles]

Were caught out here.

[Erica Alexander]

Did he go all the way in? Did he go, like, in for the kids?

[Kim Coles]

We did. Did he? You saw it. I mean, you know, he went in. It was, you know, all sorts of tongue and stuff.

[Erica Alexander]

Was it tongue?

[Kim Coles]

He pushes me. Yes. Against the. The back. The elevator.

[Erica Alexander]

Have Max and Brendan had sex? Have y' all been Doing that.

[Kim Coles]

What do you mean? Have they had sex?

[Erica Alexander]

Have y' all had sex?

[Kim Coles]

You know how young he is? He's 18. He having sex every day, three, four times a day with him alone. You know, I'm just there every now and then. You know, dudes, when they're. When they're. When their hormones, when, you know, when the cat comes a calling. Right, right, Right when I said. Or maybe the dogs are barking.

[Erica Alexander]

The dogs are barking and the cat comes a calling.

[Kim Coles]

I hear. This is what I hear. This is not data, stats. So don't come on me that three, four times a day they gotta, you know, pop up, release, Gotta release. And I'm like, good God, what kind of engine is that? You know what I'm saying? That you gotta find a release in the choo choo before you can relax. Right? That's what I hear. So, yeah, they're having sex. That's why she's with him.

[Erica Alexander]

Okay, there you go.

[Kim Coles]

Come on. I hope so.

[Erica Alexander]

I hope so. So they decide to meet up when their ages meet up more.

[Kim Coles]

Because she can't be proud of the relationship right now. She's having trouble, and she's smart to sort of say, hey, you know, this is great, but why don't we wait a little while and let him catch up? Let's wait a while, just for tonight.

[Erica Alexander]

Is that the lyrical?

[Kim Coles]

Before it's too late, before it's too.

[Erica Alexander]

Late, before it's too late, before we go too far.

[Kim Coles]

That's the great Janet Jackson talking about, you can't get the goodies right now. Right? We need to learn who we are.

[Erica Alexander]

But don't you think she understands that if she lets this go, she has to be willing to let this go? Because he may not want to be with her in a few more years. So she's willing to let that go.

[Kim Coles]

Why? Cause she's a spinster. Like she's old. Two more years. Well, she's 25. I mean.

[Erica Alexander]

No, but he's 18. And between 18 and the next few years, he's gonna meet a whole lot.

[Kim Coles]

Of chicky babes, and so will she. I think the point is, when you're young, you don't think the spigot is ever off.

[Erica Alexander]

Okay.

[Kim Coles]

It's only when you get older, when you start to think, oh, gosh, is it too late for me? Am I gonna find someone?

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

Then you start tripping. But when you're 25 and they're both beautiful and young, I think they just sort of say, we can try again.

[Erica Alexander]

If I meet you Again, I'll see you around sometime, kids.

[Kim Coles]

He's gonna go and find a younger girlf or maybe, you know, an older.

[Erica Alexander]

One, or find his soulmate. Who knows?

[Kim Coles]

Probably date the professors.

[Erica Alexander]

Oh, yeah. That's his style.

[Kim Coles]

I appreciate that about a young man who's not afraid to be challenged by someone. And in a way, he will get more experiences that are deeper and richer now.

[Erica Alexander]

Did he call you Maine? That's a Kenny question. Kenny wanted to know. Gotta give props. He called you Maine. I think that's just one of his words. Hey, Mane.

[Kim Coles]

Hey, Mane. Terrence Howard does a. He says main, but, like, that comes from Hustle and Flow. More, you know, more. So, you know, hey, Maine.

[Erica Alexander]

I think he said it in this episode. I think it's just one of his words.

[Kim Coles]

I don't know. He didn't call me Maine. He called me something else. But we don't talk about that.

[Erica Alexander]

That's another episode. It was great. It was great acting.

[Kim Coles]

It was. And I like that they had a mature conversation about it. But that's what we need more of showing people how to talk about these things, you know, do we talk enough while dating, do you think?

[Anwar White]

Right.

[Erica Alexander]

I think I've always at least wanted to have the conversation. You know, not everybody has the mat to have the conversations. Are they, you know, more in the blaming mode or the, you know, victim mode? Or not knowing what your blind spots are or being willing to look at even your responsibility in the relationship?

[Kim Coles]

For sure.

[Erica Alexander]

So you two in this scene are looking at your responsibility. It's like, I like you. I'm falling for you. It doesn't seem like the right timing. And so it's a very mature conversation without blaming or naming or shaming. Just like, see you later, maybe. And I think we do need to have those conversations.

[Kim Coles]

I think we do. And we need to show that they can be healthy and that they won't break if you have them, as opposed to just ghosting people and just being like.

[Erica Alexander]

But the respect that was there, that proves how mature he was, that he had the respect and that you had the maturity to have the respect for him as well. Cause you could have just go, so, hey, little boy, get on out of here now.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, you know, I want to do a quick fact check here. Uh oh, fact check. In real life, your girl Erica E. Is younger than Terrence Howard. Ah, really? Yes, by eight months.

[Erica Alexander]

What?

[Kim Coles]

We're both 1969. He's March 11th, and I'm November 19th. But. So I was not macking him. He was macking me. Call the police. Call the popo. Call the popo On Terrence.

[Erica Alexander]

I didn't realize that.

[Kim Coles]

That just shows you how great an actor I am.

[Erica Alexander]

I see it, you know. Yes, you're wonderful, and so is he. That was the hand that robs the cradle, Kim.

[Kim Coles]

It feels like the world is still stuck at the beginning, you know, this episode demonstrates one of the oldest debates between the sexes. Can younger men like an older woman? Is it appropriate?

[Erica Alexander]

Listen, my beloved, who I'm with now, has dated older women. And he actually, it became, you know, I asked him early on, what was your type? He says, oh, I don't really have a type. But I know now after being with him that quite a few of the women he had been with were older women. It could be in his case because he's highly intelligent and super, super smart. He probably want to be with someone who at least met him or could teach him something. So I think I highly recommend it. I would tell. Not only would I tell an older woman to date a younger man, I would tell a younger man to give an older woman a try. Listen, we're more secure in who we are. There's also, you know, a sexual confidence that you have at a certain age. There's a certain sex.

[Kim Coles]

You're letting it loose. You take the bra off.

[Erica Alexander]

Oh, yeah.

[Kim Coles]

And you say, it is what it is.

[Erica Alexander]

This is. Enjoy.

[Kim Coles]

Enjoy.

[Erica Alexander]

I am much more comfortable naked now than I ever was in my 20s.

[Kim Coles]

And plus, you have more of a. A buffet. You know, first you had a nice little side table of edibles, but now there's a huge buffet.

[Erica Alexander]

Huge buffet. That is my butt. What is the. What is the. Erica, what are you trying to say?

[Kim Coles]

I never said nothing about your buffet. Your butt being a buffet.

[Erica Alexander]

My butt was implied. But, but, but there is a comfortability. Like I said, I'm more comfortable with myself now than I was in my 20s. And I think that is. That comes with age and stage and.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, but not every older person is comfortable with that thing. They look at it. You know why? Cause you're holding onto those pictures that, you know, we all took prom pictures and all. I did not to go to prom. But you took those pictures, and probably that's the most photographed part of your life. Sure. Outside of a wedding or things like that, where you're showing your body, you're at the beach. After a while, you go into the bikini store and you start saying, okay, what's the COVID up? Let me get the COVID up first. And then I tell you what type and literally you're like, no, I can't have my stomach. No, I got stretch marks. And all this stuff is happening. All right. Can I just have some shorts? Come on.

[Erica Alexander]

Right. Well, I. I agree that there's, you know, there are things that are. That move, you know, gravity comes into place. Like you said, the varicose veins, the map to the. To the Andes mountains on your ass. But I think that there is a. If you've lived and if you're honest and you're doing the work, I do think that there's a freedom that you have. And this is what. This is what younger men have said to me. So maybe they were just telling me this to make me feel good. Like, you seem to be less restrictive about things because you've had a few experiences.

[Kim Coles]

That's true. That's true. Well, you know what, do I sound.

[Erica Alexander]

Like a whore now? What does it sound?

[Kim Coles]

Well, a little bit, but I listen and I don't judge.

[Erica Alexander]

Do I sound like I've enjoyed my time? I've enjoyed that.

[Kim Coles]

The one thing about you, Kim, is that you really have embraced life, even with your vagina.

[Erica Alexander]

You always said you wish you'd use your puss more.

[Kim Coles]

I'm jealous.

[Erica Alexander]

You still have time. You still have time.

[Kim Coles]

Thank you.

[Erica Alexander]

Use it as often as possible.

[Kim Coles]

Still have time. Please send all donations. Hey, we've been talking about this kind of stuff for a very long time, and we won't stop.

[Erica Alexander]

No, no.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. So let's keep talking about it. Or in the reverb, if you used babbel, you would. Babbel's conversation based techniques teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now. @babbel.com Spotify spelled B-A B-B-E-L.com Spotify rules and restrictions may apply. Hey, guys, have you heard of goldbelly? It's this amazing site where they ship the most iconic famous foods from restaurants across the country, anywhere nationwide. I've never found a more perfect gift than food. Gold belly ship, Chicago deep dish pizza, New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls, and even Ina garden's famous cakes. So if you're looking for a gift for the food lover in your life, head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code GIFT. That's goldbelly.com promo code GIFT.

[Erica Alexander]

You know what's hit me? Rewatching these episodes, every single character raised the bar and set their own standard of excellence.

[Kim Coles]

Mm. Max, she went from legal powerhouse to community advocate. Khadijah built a media empire for the culture before the Internet.

[Erica Alexander]

That's right. And Sinclair, who went from assistant to actress with heart and hustle and regime from boutique bombshell to event planner boss baws.

[Kim Coles]

And just like our girls on Living Single, our friends, you at home are making moves like launching your side hustle and landing your dream jobs. And Lexus is right there with you, helping you reset the bar.

[Erica Alexander]

You understand something. This is not just a point A to point B journey. It's about riding in a car that meets your vision. Sleek, powerful, luxurious. Comfort's so good, it feels like a spa day in traffic. Woo.

[Kim Coles]

Because that's how Lexus makes me feel. Amazing.

[Erica Alexander]

Yes. This show is brought to you by BetterHelp. We turn to some funny places for support, but not everyone is a therapist. Not everyone is the one. Find your right match at BetterHelp. All right, let's be real. I've turned to everybody at some point for advice. My hairstylist knows more about my love life than some of my exes. I once spilled my whole soul to a woman in the frozen foods aisle, and she gave me surprisingly solid advice on boundaries. I thank you, madam. But here's the thing. Sometimes we're out here looking for healing at the grocery store when what we really need is help from someone trained to help us heal. And that's where therapy comes in. A real therapist, like the kind Better Help connects you with, isn't just good at nodding and saying mm. These folks are credentialed, licensed, and trained to handle the heavy stuff. Anxiety, depression, relationships, burnout, trauma. You name it, they've seen it, studied it, and helped people through it. And BetterHelp doesn't leave you hanging. You know, trying to find a good fit, you take a quick questionnaire. Nothing too deep, just enough to get a sense of what you need, and they match you with someone who fits you. And if it's not a match made in mental health heaven, you can switch therapists at no extra cost. Easy, peasy, breezy, better helpy. They've been doing this for over 10 years, y'.

[Anwar White]

All.

[Erica Alexander]

Over 1.7 million reviews. 4.9 stars. And that's more stars than I've had hairstyles. And that is saying something. Something I'VE done therapy, and I'm going to tell you what, it's one of the best gifts I've ever given myself. It's like spring cleaning, but for your spirit. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of Expertise. Find the one at BetterHelp, our listeners get 10% off their first [e-mail] Relive. That's H E L P.com Reliving all right, Y', all, welcome to the Reverb brought to you by Lexus. Y' all know, this is where we reflect and connect and talk about how the episode's themes still echo in the culture. Because just like our stories, Lexus keeps raising the bar. That's the standard of amazing.

[Kim Coles]

All right, so we have our resident May December romance expert here.

[Erica Alexander]

Yes. Lived experiences.

[Kim Coles]

Yes. But we decided to bring in a real expert because we want some real advice. And so, you know, we trying to break down this whole age gap romance thing.

[Erica Alexander]

So therefore, we have an expert who advises people looking for love of all types.

[Kim Coles]

Yes. He is the creator for get yout Guy Coaching, a platform to help successful black and brown women find healthy relationship. Anwar has become a social media phenomenon. Please, please welcome dating fairy godbrother, Anwar White.

[Erica Alexander]

Yay.

[Anwar White]

Thank you so much for having me, y'.

[Kim Coles]

All.

[Anwar White]

You know, I'm super happy to be here, as you can tell by my shirt.

[Kim Coles]

Okay, that's a gold star. Anwar, you'll always be in our heart.

[Erica Alexander]

Right away. Right away.

[Kim Coles]

Thank you. He's dating us right now. We get to know it.

[Erica Alexander]

Of course.

[Kim Coles]

Of course. Yes. He just set the table charming us right now.

[Anwar White]

That's how we do it.

[Erica Alexander]

So as you probably already know, this episode, we're talking about the age gap, right? And so particularly about older women and younger men. So is this still seen as a taboo in some circles for older women to date younger men?

[Anwar White]

I think it is, but it depends on the actual age gap, Right? So if it's like 10 years plus, I think there's still a little bit of a taboo. But I will tell you, as someone who gets people into relationships every other day, most of my clients are getting with men that are three to six years younger than they are. And I actually recommend dating it. I actually recommend that black women specifically get with younger men. And one, because y' all don't age for sure, so y' all gonna look the same age anyway.

[Kim Coles]

Hello. Hey.

[Erica Alexander]

You know, so just so you know that I've gone 12 years my junior. So I'm. I guess I'm still. I guess I'm taboo, but. Oh, well.

[Anwar White]

What I. I think is really important for women to know right now is that they are the choosers and they're not waiting to be chosen. And that's the difference between what we're doing now and what we maybe 30, 40 years ago. Right. And so as a woman who's doing things and doing things well, you get to choose who you want to be with.

[Erica Alexander]

Why is three to six years the sweet spot for you?

[Anwar White]

One, because you want to make sure that you aren't in a completely different life stage than the other person is in. Right. I mean, when we think about this episode, right. There were different life stages that were happening.

[Kim Coles]

Yes.

[Anwar White]

So that was something that was, I think, a little bit different and harder to kind of navigate. I also think that at that age you have things in common. There are cultural references that you can kind of engage with, but the person also will hopefully have the same trajectory as you have, right. This. The same stability that you have. Whereas maybe if someone is, let's say 15 years younger, they might not be there. So it's hard to imagine an actual long standing relationship with them because there might be a power imbalance there.

[Kim Coles]

So, like, in your experience, like, what insecurities or societal pressures tend to show up with these dynamics?

[Anwar White]

I think that in a lot of women might feel like they're running out of time. I hear that a lot. I have certain feelings about my aging and I might feel judged. Right. And trying to stay relevant with this young buck. Right.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah.

[Anwar White]

I think that there's a double standard. Right. I think that older women with younger men are considered cougars, which doesn't have the best, you know, kind of connotation. But like, older men with younger women have traditionally been seen as ballin. Right. And so I think those are kind of societal pressures that I think women navigate when they are engaging with younger men. I also think that, like, some of the insecurities that happen that I hear a lot is, are they going to leave me for someone younger? Right. Does this person want kids? And I might not be able to give them kids. Sometimes there's a bit of social isolation, right. That like, you know, my friends and my family are giving me a hard time. They might not feel like they can relate with me. So those are some of the insecurities that happen. And then, like I was saying before, some life stages, right. If I'm like, in the episode, Max was kind of in her career already and her Young buck was a freshman in college. So completely different life stages. Right?

[Kim Coles]

Right. This week, the character Max hides her younger relationship. She's 25, he's 18. That's seven years. Because she's afraid of being judged by her friends and colleagues. How common is it that that kind of preemptive shame, you know, shows up? And how do you advise clients to navigate it?

[Anwar White]

You know, we always gonna talk about somebody.

[Kim Coles]

Black people was jamming. It's the truth, what you want.

[Anwar White]

We always gonna talk about somebody. It doesn't matter whether you with someone that's younger or his career is interesting or he has an interesting look about him. We always going to talk about somebody. But I think that there's a shame that happens that women can feel like if they're dating a younger man, that they're preying on the naive or feel pathetic in any way. And again, I want to reframe that. And knowing that, no, this is about your choice. And you get to choose who you want to be with. So that's number one. The other thing that I will just mention is that because of some of the shame, what can happen is that a lot of women will start dating, what I call on the DL, that nobody knows who you're dating. Right. You don't tell any of your business. And that's like the most dangerous thing that you can do because then you're in isolation. And then what happens is you don't have anyone to help you to get out of that situation because you don't have the perspective. You're in the trenches. And you need what I call your love jury to help you out in those moments where you don't have that perspective. The research says that your friends and family will be able to predict your relationship outcome at like the 90th percent level. But you someone that's in the relationship, you'll only be able to predict it at like the 60th percent level. So you need those people to give you that perspective and be like, no, that's not it.

[Erica Alexander]

That's so true. I can think of relationships where people saw it before I saw it. Cause you're just in love, or you want to be in love, or you want this thing so bad. By the way, I don't have a problem with the term cougar. Actually, I don't like cougar. I say that I'm an ocelot. Cause I can't run that fast. So what are some other things? If I'm deciding that I want to give this a try, What Are the key factors should I be looking for? Other than my rule is that they have to know at least three Earth, Wind and fire songs and then we.

[Kim Coles]

Can go, wow, it was a low bar.

[Anwar White]

I know that's right. I know that's right. So I think it's important to have true alignment on some of those non negotiables. Kids. Yeah. Career, lifestyle, travel, things like that. And values. Religious, financial, political. I think specifically we have to understand what the actual power dynamics are because oftentimes what will happen is that the older partner, regardless of whatever the gender kind of combination is, will naturally feel like they are in control because they are wiser, they might have more money. So making sure that the younger partner feels empowered, right. To voice his needs and that there's also some sort of financial balance. Now you. Just because he's younger doesn't mean that you gotta be a sugar mama, you know, like there has to be balance there. That I think is important. And then finally what I will say is you have to have really great boundaries with family and friends. And then for the older partner, you're going to need to feel really secure about aging. And for the younger partner, especially if he is male, he's going to need to be okay with being what I call an Alphabet man. Someone who is an alpha but also can take a backseat at times because as an older woman you're going to know more and he has to be respectful and honor that and, and revere all of that as well. And some men won't be able to do that.

[Kim Coles]

I love that. I wanna go back to something you said about being in isolation because here obviously I've been in Showbiz for like 40 years and it's very difficult to feel like you have room to tell your personal business to people. So you see these women of all different ages isolated and they are in abusive relationships, but they don't wanna admit that they go on for far too long and they're in, you know, maybe with children or. And they haven't said anything. And that's because they, I guess they. And it may not just be age, but they have presented a certain person to the world. But behind those doors, it's a whole nother beat. Can you talk about that isolation thing? Having your tribe, what'd you call it? Your love jury? Your love jury. I love it.

[Anwar White]

We grow up thinking and being conditioned that, that we can't tell our business outside of the house. Yes. Right. And actually in love and relationships, it's important for you to do that with Your tribe. Now, not everybody needs to know, but a good two to three people need to know. Right. So that you can continue to have this perspective. And I, I do think that one of those people should be an elder. Right. Someone who knows who's been in a successful, healthy marriage for 10, 20, 30 plus years, who can give you the perspective. I talk to black women all day, every day. And one of the things that I've learned in being a dating coach for 15 years is that the hardest thing for them to say is I need help. It's the hardest thing for them to say. So part of this work is before you're even getting into that sort of situation, being in the practice of asking people for help, family, friends, men. Right. As well. Because that is also kind of a sticky point for a lot of women nowadays.

[Kim Coles]

So, Anwar, what inspired you to focus specifically on black and brown women, women of color? Was there something in your background that led you to want to focus on them in particular?

[Anwar White]

I grew up with a front row seat to my family members and how they navigated their love lives. And I think that there are greater challenges when you're dating and in love and relationshiping as a black woman. Specific. And so I never saw anyone speaking to those, those challenges in depthly. And you know, I am pro black woman love and I want every black woman to get the love, love that they deserve. And you know, there are specific healings that have to happen for you to be successful in love. There's a lot of conditioning and programming. Right. That your white counterparts do not get that, that make it harder for you to love. So, for example. Right. Oftentimes a lot of black girls are raised to be stoic. Right. And not have feelings because our parents know that this world is hard and you gotta rely on yourself. So if you're stoic, you're not showing your. Your feelings, you're not gonna be able to deeply connect with somebody. Right?

[Kim Coles]

Yes.

[Anwar White]

Also, you know, we don't grow up with boundaries, so most of us don't. I'm not gonna speak for everyone. Most of us don't grow up with boundaries. But to be successful in dating and love, you have to be boundaried up all day, every day. So those are examples of what needs to happen, what healing needs to happen, what work needs to happen for black women specifically to get into the best relationship of their life.

[Erica Alexander]

I love this conversation. I love that you lead with that, that there is work that you're going to need to do on your own and choose yourself differently and choose yourself differently in a relationship and choose more more with more intention.

[Anwar White]

I love that. And choosing from a healing place.

[Erica Alexander]

Choose from a healed place.

[Kim Coles]

Listen, biologically speaking, women often hit their sexual prime in their 40s, so they say, just as some men.

[Anwar White]

Well, I wouldn't know anything about that, girl. Y' all need to tell me, honey.

[Erica Alexander]

I would know about that.

[Anwar White]

Y' all tell me.

[Kim Coles]

Look, this is the data child. I mean, you know, I can tell.

[Erica Alexander]

You you reach a peak. I. This is when my expertise comes in handy.

[Kim Coles]

She about to hump the chair.

[Anwar White]

I can just tell you.

[Erica Alexander]

I found that the gentle that were that I was choosing from, I liked younger men because the older men had begun to decline in that department. Also, a lot of times the men in my age range, they're moving on.

[Kim Coles]

To younger women, right?

[Erica Alexander]

And so I was like, well, let me see what's left. And oh, hello, Hot Sir?

[Kim Coles]

Yes? Can I carry your gym bag?

[Erica Alexander]

Make sure you get a juice box and a lunchable.

[Kim Coles]

Does that mean it actually makes sense for women to date younger? Is biology low key? Pushing toward May December romance from the other side?

[Anwar White]

I think all of those things are true, right. I think that y' all are hitting your peak sexually at that moment. Whereas, you know, men younger are at their peak, but relationships aren't all sexual.

[Kim Coles]

That's true.

[Anwar White]

Right. And so I do think it's really important to understand the totality. We're looking at not just the physical connection, but we're also looking at the intellectual connection and the emotional connection as well. And so when we think about it in those terms. Right. I don't necessarily know if May December relationships or partnerships are ideal. What I will say is there's a beautiful thing that happens around 45 and 50 years old, and it is this. Women are having more testosterone and men are losing their testosterone. And what happens is, for many women, that's their peak of their career. They're really getting it right. And there's a switch of the masculine and the feminine energy that happens. I'm sure many of you have seen this, right? Where they're very much about their pets or about plants or about landscaping and cutting grass. This is a nurturing aspect that men start to have around 45 and 50 years old. People of your age range actually are doing this beautiful masculine, feminine, energetic dance.

[Kim Coles]

Wow. So they're trading their, you know, penis for an actual dog. Cause up until that point, their pet was their penis. Although men may not admit it, I.

[Erica Alexander]

Think that if that's what you got from that, that's what you got. Take that rub.

[Kim Coles]

No, I get it. That they're becoming. There's something that's coming with them. This is a hormonal as well.

[Anwar White]

Right.

[Kim Coles]

That as that testosterone goes down, they're able to link it to their feminine divine. Right, Right.

[Anwar White]

Exactly.

[Kim Coles]

How do you think media's doing on this side? I mean, we talking about the max and dynamic here in the show for media et al. Like, are they, like, perpetuating this dynamic realistically or, you know, with emotional truth?

[Anwar White]

Well, I think that this episode does a really great job. Right. Of portraying exactly what it really does look like, because your friends and family will talk about you. Right. And in the episode that they do. One of the most beautiful parts of the episode that I really liked was when you and Terrence Howard were running from the rain. Right. And you were, like, you know, super excited and super giddy and all of those things. And one of the things that I think is so beautiful about that interaction, especially for a black woman, is that the young men get to. You get to have fun with them. Right. You don't have to be responsible. You don't have to put your cape on anymore. You get to be that fun little girl that oftentimes, for many black women, black girls growing up, you don't get to be. Right. You turn 10, 11, 12, now you cooking and cleaning in the house.

[Kim Coles]

Yes.

[Anwar White]

You helping your mama. You doing all of this. And, like, your childhood gets lost a little bit. And so part of the beauty of these sorts of relationships is that you get to find that fun little girl and not feel guilty about being fun, because he's not going to make you feel guilty about it.

[Kim Coles]

Right. Right now there's this war zone that's going on, a discourse. We have men saying, what do you bring to the table? Men and women? Men are asking for women to be submissive. Women are clapping back and, you know, saying, I got degrees and paychecks. What are you gonna do for me? But there are also men who are saying, if you want someone to pay those bills, then what are you offering? You know? You know, what are you offering? So how influential is this discourse to people dating?

[Anwar White]

I think that this conversation gets really complicated when we're talking about the black black community in general. And it is because when you tease out all of the data, single black women make more than single black men. And this is the only racial group where this happens. So this conversation gets even more elevated, because if I'm a black woman and I'm making more than you, then does it make sense for you to take care of all of the dates, all of the finances, where that traditionally was the case. I think that this sort of rhetoric and conversation is really focused on making dating and relationships a transactional negotiation. And I think that people are greater than that. There's this pressure to feel like you have to articulate what your value is or what you bring to the table. But in reality, everyone just has to bring themselves and that's enough. I hate to be the dating MLK here, but we're all equal right at the end of the day. And this sort of conversation gives superiority and inferiority complex that doesn't serve anyone at the end of the day. And I think it's making dating the hardest that it's ever been. Unfortunately, I think we rise above that.

[Erica Alexander]

How do we begin to shift those conversations? Because if these debates are all happening online and they're all happening everywhere, how do we. What do we need to do in order to shift those conversations to what you're talking about right now?

[Anwar White]

Don't engage because your person is never going to have this sort of conversation with you.

[Erica Alexander]

I love that.

[Anwar White]

I literally see this happen like every other day. There are relationships happening in my program and there's never a question of who's going to pay. There's never a question of you need to reach out to me more. There's never a question of, you know, what are you bringing to the table now, unfortunately, that voice is the strongest voice because most of the people that are having those conversations are single and don't have relationship skills. Your job as a single woman in this dating economy is to engage and focus on the individuals that have the relationship skills. 90% of them don't. But unfortunately you're listening to 90% of these individuals who never had it to begin with. Again, these people who are having these sorts of conversations, oftentimes it's about a power struggle. Right? That's what it is. It is. I want to have power over you, black woman, because you're so powerful. That's what I'm saying. I don't want you to engage in those men because it doesn't make any sense. Unless you want to be a second class citizen in your own relationship. Good luck. And nobody wants that.

[Kim Coles]

That's a blog.

[Erica Alexander]

So I hear that you have these dating archetypes as it relates to the living single characters. Do you mind giving us our.

[Anwar White]

Yeah, I mean, I think that each character represents a different love archetype. Right. And so Maxine Shah, attorney at law. Yes, she is the emotionally unavailable queen.

[Kim Coles]

That's true.

[Anwar White]

She uses her intellect, her sarcasm as a defense mechanism to keep men at a safe distance. So she's gonna have to learn how to be vulnerable. She's gotta let go of the roster. Right. Because actually the roster is a way for her to avoid true commitment. She's got to lean in. Right. So that's Maxine Shah, attorney at law.

[Erica Alexander]

I love that he said that with such a smile. Just so I do know, I mean.

[Anwar White]

I gotta say it with love.

[Kim Coles]

You do.

[Anwar White]

I mean, because we all have our work to do. Khadijah, she's the boss lady, right. She's the strong friend. She's always there for everybody. But it is impossible for her to ask for help.

[Kim Coles]

Yes.

[Anwar White]

So she's leaning into work, she's avoiding dating oftentimes. And because of that, she is not feeling as safe as she needs to in relationships. And so to help her better prepare for longer term, healthier partnerships, she's going to have to learn how to ask for help from friends, family and the man that she's dating. But she's going to need to find the compliment to her, not her clone. Because if he's ambitious and she's ambitious, she's not going to have anyone to support her as she goes on to her journey because he's going to be focused on his ambitions. Right. So those are the sorts of things that happen when you are a boss lady type in life and in love.

[Kim Coles]

That's interesting.

[Anwar White]

Regine, she's a high maintenance queen.

[Kim Coles]

Yes.

[Anwar White]

And she was actually a little bit before her time in terms of, of wanting and demanding certain things. But again, there was a notion of as kind of a superiority complex. Right. I think I'm a little bit better than certain people and I think that was to find worthiness within herself. And I think that the regimes of the world have an innate value. When you grow up in an environment where you're always trying to prove yourself, often proving yourself to your mother, because there's a lot of black mother wounds out there. And I think that regime kind of had a little bit of that. Then you're always going to be a little bit critical like your mom, but also try to gain that validation Right. From other people. So that's the work that Regine would need to do because if you're doing these things in your relationships, you will also do it with men. And then finally, Sinclair, the nice romantic girl, she's the girl who is writing holiday cards for people and checks in with people when most people Don't. And ultimately. Ultimately, I think that the biggest opportunity for Sinclair was setting boundaries. Right. When you're a nice girl, you let people do and say a lot of different things. And I think that she would struggle a lot in today's dating landscape because she would be attracting a lot of toxic and narcissistic men that would take her kindness for weakness. And so being able to set boundaries, to say no, to share how things make her feel, would help her, keep her safe and find her ob.

[Erica Alexander]

Good stuff. Yeah. I love how passionate you are about this work. Whatever women were in your life who showed you this way and you developed this passion to want to see them be happy and feel fulfilled really just pours through. So thank you for doing that work for yourself and doing that work for the world.

[Anwar White]

Thank you. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I'm interested to hear. I'm wondering what your listeners will think. Cause, you know, every person connects with one character, if that's been their love story or not. So definitely, I want to. Hopefully we can hear from them, everybody.

[Kim Coles]

Say what their archetype might be. What things out there can people do to gain this type of knowledge so they can start to better select heel or have more options because of the way they have different perspective.

[Anwar White]

Well, I am everyone's dating fairy godbrother, so you can also always watch me on socials and everything like that. But, you know, it might be a little bit of a bad word in our community, but therapy will help you. Finding an amazing therapist that you connect with, I think is really important for some of my intellectual ladies. Part of the first step in this work is reading books.

[Kim Coles]

Yes.

[Anwar White]

I mean, you got bell hooks sharing all the tea in her books. Especially start with All About Love. That book will open you up if you are a black woman.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, I just bought that. It stayed on the best New York Times list for, like, ever.

[Anwar White]

For a reason. It should be the. If you want to really delve into this work as a black woman, that's the first book that I think every black woman should date and focus on.

[Erica Alexander]

Everybody go sign up for Anwar stuff.

[Kim Coles]

Absolutely. Yes. And also find an elder, because you said that that should be part of your love jury. The love jury. And I love that you speak to that, because I think we need to. To make sure that we are having those conversations and that they're generational.

[Anwar White]

I think a lot of people just really quickly say, oh, like, she hasn't dated, you know, in 20, 30 years. But if your grandmother or an elder in the church or Someone else has had a successful relationship for 20, 30 years. She knows something.

[Kim Coles]

Yes, yes.

[Anwar White]

She knows a lot of something.

[Kim Coles]

Right.

[Anwar White]

So we want to make sure that we are, you know, making sure that we're internalizing some of those lessons so that we can have the best relationship of our life as well. Wow.

[Erica Alexander]

I'm glad we have a good relationship with you, Anwar.

[Kim Coles]

We do. Thank you.

[Erica Alexander]

Thank you so much.

[Anwar White]

Thank you for having me.

[Kim Coles]

Thank you so much.

[Anwar White]

You're so welcome.

[Kim Coles]

Thank you, Anwar. I mean, just brilliant.

[Erica Alexander]

Great. Great.

[Kim Coles]

And he does it with such grace.

[Erica Alexander]

And calm and such love.

[Kim Coles]

And I'd have to say, you know, to his point here, I think for Max. Max is not robbing the cradle. No, she's not. She's. She's challenging the system. She's challenging the status quo. So, hey, this is True Blue, where we hear from our friends. All right, let's go, Amber. What's next? What do you got? All right, this is from Ashley W. She says, at first, I want to express my appreciation for the show. I'm 38 and remember watching the show weekly with my mom. And I cannot say how happy I was when the show came to Hulu. I also have my son watching Living Single and reliving Single. She asked. At the end of the show, we hear a woo hoo. Whose voice is that? My mom says, regine. And I say, Sinclair.

[Erica Alexander]

It is actually our creator, Yvette Lee Bowser.

[Anwar White]

Yes.

[Erica Alexander]

Woohoo.

[Kim Coles]

So you're wrong. It's neither.

[Erica Alexander]

Neither swinging on a windmill, as I recall. So that's Yvette.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. I wonder what that means to her. I've never really understood the windmill thing. Do you know why she chose a windmill?

[Erica Alexander]

But if she comes curious. A hundred episodes, it's been 30 years, you know. Well, last week we were there. I know.

[Kim Coles]

Why did we say why the windmill event? I don't know. Yeah.

[Erica Alexander]

Woo hoo. And that's her swinging on the windmill.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. That little figure. Yeah.

[Erica Alexander]

We'll ask and we'll get back to you.

[Kim Coles]

All right, and then we have a question from Brittany T. From Chicago. She says, what song were you all dancing or listening to for the opening credits? Because you all were jamming. I have so much love for the show. Thank you for the time, Brittany.

[Erica Alexander]

I think we were dancing to something real hip and funky. I don't know what we were dancing to, but it was good. Cause I remember we were really in our groove.

[Kim Coles]

And really, you know, you're like, yeah, you know, you really.

[Erica Alexander]

We were really throwing it. So it was Something hard?

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, it was something hard. You know, when you're filming anything with music, what happens on a set is they'll start to play a track and everybody will hear the music that's in the room. And they'll dance for a while so we can understand what's going on. And then they'll pull the track out and just put a beat just low underneath. So then all the dialogue is clean for audio. So it's a very low boo, boo, boo, boo. Something that, you know, the sound can work with. So I actually have no idea. But, Kim, it was a jamming thing.

[Erica Alexander]

It was jamming. We got in there and we were really having a good time because it was a day that we were shooting all of our photos for the show and, you know, our headshots for the show. So it was a full day of just that.

[Kim Coles]

But, Kim, you're like this.

[Erica Alexander]

No, but I'm doing. Am I?

[Kim Coles]

Yes.

[Erica Alexander]

No, but I'm doing.

[Kim Coles]

You're, like, doing this strange. Like I'm doing a robot. Well, it's, you know.

[Erica Alexander]

Well. Cause I knew to be. No, it's. But it's. It's. It's the robot.

[Kim Coles]

Okay?

[Erica Alexander]

It was the bad robot. And, you know, John is back there.

[Kim Coles]

Doing his thing, and you're like the Watusi, the Batusi.

[Erica Alexander]

What were you doing?

[Kim Coles]

I was jamming. You what? Look at Kyle. And we are on the end, me and Kyle, and we're jamming the hardest.

[Erica Alexander]

And he's like, giving it to you, like Chicago style. And then Kim, you know, Kim is being cute and pretty and, you know, Latifah's, you know, like, Kim.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. Latifah's giving the Latifah, like, years. So it was good fun.

[Erica Alexander]

But it was a great day, as I recall.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah.

[Erica Alexander]

Cause we got to dance and have fun.

[Kim Coles]

We're basically dancing to nothing.

[Erica Alexander]

Dancing to nothing.

[Kim Coles]

Showbiz.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, that's our show. What a good show it was. And what a good show we have every single week, which is why you're gonna wanna tune in every time.

[Kim Coles]

And we wanna thank Anwar White. Go and find him at datingatingcoachanwar. Everyone. We love you.

[Erica Alexander]

Erica and I will say farewell to you right now. Make sure you tune in at reliving Single podcast. You know, follow us on all the socials and all the places and then watch us on Spotify and YouTube and Apple Podcasts and all the places where you get your podcasts. And we'd like you to like and subscribe. And please watch all the way through because there's some magic. You want to catch all the magic all the time.

[Kim Coles]

Yes, that helps. And yeah. So we'll see y' all next week. Reliving Single is hosted by me, Erica Alexander and me, Kim Coles. Reliving Single is a production of Heartbeat in association with Color Font Media, Executive.

[Erica Alexander]

Produced by Kevin Hart, Jeff Clanagan, Eric Eddings, Leslie Guam, Erica Alexander and Ben Arnon.

[Kim Coles]

The show is produced by Kim Coles.

[Erica Alexander]

Amber Watson is our senior producer.

[Kim Coles]

Our associate producer is Kenny Jackson.

[Erica Alexander]

Our other associate producer is Electra Telesford. Our video editor is Nee Kirschman.

[Kim Coles]

Our sound engineers are Eric Hicks and Cedric Wilson.

[Erica Alexander]

Production supervision by Razak Boykin and Brett Calkins.

[Kim Coles]

Additional production support from Alex Atkins and Z. Taylor.

[Erica Alexander]

Special thanks to BK Augustine and Dr. E.J. johnson.

[Kim Coles]

What do you think makes the perfect snack?

[Erica Alexander]

It's got to be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

[Kim Coles]

Could you be more specific?

[Erica Alexander]

When it's cravinient. Okay, Like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the street at a.m. p.m. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just.

[Kim Coles]

A second at a.m. p.m. I'm seeing a pattern here.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.

[Kim Coles]

Crave, which is anything from am pm.

[Erica Alexander]

What more could you want?

[Anwar White]

Stop by AM PM where the snacks.

[Erica Alexander]

And drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient.

[Anwar White]

That's cravinience.

[Kim Coles]

Am PM Too much.

[Erica Alexander]

Good stuff.