No Lie featuring Robert Horn

Summary

ReLiving Single Podcast Episode Summary
Title: No Lie featuring Robert Horn
Release Date: May 28, 2025
Hosts: Erika Alexander and Kim Coles
Guest: Rob Horn
Podcast Description:
ReLiving Single is the official unofficial rewatch podcast for the iconic sitcom Living Single. Hosted by sitcom legends and real-life best friends, Erika Alexander and Kim Coles, each episode delves into behind-the-scenes stories, explores memorable moments, and reconnects listeners with the stars who made the show a staple in TV history. This episode, "No Lie featuring Robert Horn," focuses on the fourth episode of the first season, "A Kiss Before Lying," featuring an insightful conversation with writer Rob Horn.

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Episode Overview

In "No Lie featuring Robert Horn," hosts Erika Alexander and Kim Coles engage in a candid discussion about the Living Single episode titled "A Kiss Before Lying." They explore the intricate dynamics between characters Maxine Shaw and Kyle Barker, delve into the show's themes of honesty and integrity, and highlight the collaborative efforts behind the scenes that brought these characters to life. The episode also features an exclusive interview with Rob Horn, one of the writers responsible for the show's development.

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Key Discussions and Insights

Exploring "A Kiss Before Lying"

The hosts begin by dissecting the plot of "A Kiss Before Lying," where Max's ex-boyfriend Greg invites her and his fiancée to dinner, setting the stage for chaos and emotional revelations.

• Erika Alexander [04:22]: "This is where Max's former boyfriend invites her and his fiancée to dinner with him, and as usual, chaos ensues."

• Kim Coles [04:43]: "Why would this man come to meet you with his fiancée knowing that you all were broken up?"

They discuss Max's struggle with honesty, highlighting her character's integrity as a lawyer who cannot bear to lie, even when her friends try to bolster her self-esteem with fabrications.

• Erika Alexander [36:47]: "Max drops a truth bomb in front of everybody, revealing her own lies and setting the stage for genuine connections."

The conversation emphasizes the show's ability to blend comedy with profound emotional moments, making the characters relatable and the storylines impactful.

Character Dynamics and Chemistry

A significant focus is placed on the chemistry between Max and Kyle, two central characters whose evolving relationship is both humorous and heartfelt.

• Rob Horn [30:33]: "We wanted to set up the Max and Kyle relationship to show that their attraction stemmed from their similarities and internal conflicts."

Rob Horn elaborates on how the writers intentionally crafted their interactions to be more than a simple rivalry, infusing layers of attraction and mutual respect that resonate with the audience.

Behind-the-Scenes Collaboration

The episode offers a rare glimpse into the collaborative environment of the Living Single writers' room, under the leadership of creator Yvette Lee Bowser.

• Rob Horn [39:42]: "Yvette was groundbreaking, wanting everybody to excel and supporting writers without feeling threatened by their talents."

Horn praises Bowser's ability to create a supportive and creative space, fostering a team where writers could explore diverse perspectives and develop nuanced characters.

• Rob Horn [34:55]: "Great writing was all about community and support, making the writers' room as dynamic as the on-screen ensemble."

Themes of Female Autonomy and Career

Erika and Kim delve into how Living Single tackled the concept of women balancing career ambitions with personal lives, a topic that was especially pertinent in the 90s and continues to be relevant today.

• Erika Alexander [56:07]: "Black women have always been working, balancing family and professional aspirations, a theme deeply embedded in our characters."

They discuss the societal pressures women face to "have it all" and how the show presents various paths to fulfillment, emphasizing personal choice and empowerment.

• Kim Coles [55:34]: "Our show was about exploring what 'having it all' truly means and giving women the agency to define it for themselves."

Guest Interview: Rob Horn

Rob Horn, a key writer for Living Single, shares his experiences and insights into crafting authentic and engaging storylines.

• Rob Horn [32:36]: "Our chemistry both as writers and with the cast was crucial in elevating the show's humor and emotional depth."

He highlights the importance of grounded truth in comedy, explaining how integrating genuine emotions into humorous scenarios creates more relatable and impactful content.

• Rob Horn [46:13]: "Great comedy is grounded in truth and relatability, allowing moments of pathos to enhance the humor rather than overshadow it."

Horn reflects on the show's enduring popularity and its role in paving the way for future television narratives centered around strong, independent women of color.

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Notable Quotes

• Erika Alexander [00:00]: "People have had to put on different faces and masks and maybe not even be themselves."

• Kim Coles [00:44]: "I pride myself on being a truth teller. I have not lied to boyfriends or lovers."

• Rob Horn [30:04]: "You were looking at my nipples, but the whole time I was moving and grooving, getting my degree, you know what I'm saying?"

• Erika Alexander [25:01]: "Would we have sang the blues in rock and roll and punk rock? In Ragtime and all the things that came out of us, we are people that have created ourselves out of whole cloth."

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Conclusions

"No Lie featuring Robert Horn" encapsulates the essence of Living Single through its exploration of honesty, integrity, and the complexities of female friendships and romances. The episode underscores the show's groundbreaking portrayal of strong Black women navigating personal and professional landscapes with humor and grace. Through engaging discussions and an insightful interview with Rob Horn, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the thoughtful writing and dynamic character development that made Living Single a beloved classic.

The hosts, Erika Alexander and Kim Coles, effectively bridge the gap between the show's past and present, offering both nostalgic reflections and contemporary relevance. The episode serves as a testament to the enduring legacy of Living Single and its influence on modern television narratives centered around empowered women of color.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Erica Alexander]

I mean, it's really rough out there. It always has been. People think it's rough now. It's always been rough. People have had to put on different faces and masks and maybe not even be themselves.

[Kim Coles]

Right, right. Well, what's the worst lie that you ever told a lover or boyfriend?

[Erica Alexander]

Oh, me. Wow. Okay, well, let me think. I'm all right. I know yours. Wow. So big. So big. The biggest ever, like. Yeah, yeah, you really knocked some, something loose there, tiger. He believed me. He believed me. They want to.

[Kim Coles]

They want to. They need to believe that.

[Erica Alexander]

Of course, you know, oh, you moved my uterus. I went bow legged for a week just to play, you know, you know what I'm saying? To sell it.

[Kim Coles]

Why did you feel that you needed to sell it?

[Erica Alexander]

Well, you know, people need confidence, right. And suddenly they can move mountains.

[Kim Coles]

Right.

[Erica Alexander]

So what about you? I mean, what's the. Have you told a boyfriend or a paramour?

[Kim Coles]

I pride myself on being a truth teller. I have not lied to boyfriends or lovers. I tell the truth always.

[Erica Alexander]

Now that's a lie.

[Kim Coles]

It is a lie. It's a lie. But I've been lied to. And you remember. I'm not gonna say his name. You remember somebody that I was dating.

[Erica Alexander]

He liked to sing.

[Kim Coles]

I remember that he liked to sing. Yes. He liked singing ballads.

[Erica Alexander]

He did just one.

[Kim Coles]

He was a. He was, you might call him a ballade. So I went to hug him one time, and when I hugged him, there was a blonde hair on his shoulder. And I was like, what's this? And he says, that's yours. I was like, look at, I don't have any blonde hair. And he said, oh, oh, my mother is a lawn dress. A laundress. The last time that was a profession was 1853.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kim Coles]

My mother takes in laundry from the neighborhoods. Meanwhile, there was nobody with a blonde hair living in his neighborhood.

[Erica Alexander]

No.

[Kim Coles]

And so he said at the laundry, commemorative mingled with my T shirts. And that is why it's not as.

[Erica Alexander]

Weird as wondering, what are you doing dating somebody who uses the word laundress? You should have already, you know, sorry, Points off.

[Kim Coles]

Points off. And he's out. He's out. And he had a baby with her. But that's another story.

[Erica Alexander]

Oh my God, it gets worse.

[Kim Coles]

You can't. It was a long dress. It was a laundress. No, he said that the hair of the person who his mother's clothing was washing with his clothes commingled. And I was like, you have done something. I had to pull the blonde hair out of the fibers of your.

[Erica Alexander]

What was it? A pubic hair? I mean, it sounds like it was woven in.

[Kim Coles]

It was long and it was blonde. That's all you need to know.

[Erica Alexander]

Wow.

[Kim Coles]

This episode is brought to you by Factor Optimize your nutrition this year with Factor America's number one ready to eat meal service. Factor's fresh never frozen meals are dietitian approved.

[Erica Alexander]

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[Kim Coles]

Dietary preferences like calorie smart, protein plus, and keto. Eat [e-mail] Listen50 and use code Listen50 for 50% off plus free shipping on your first box. Code Listen50 Ts and Cs apply. Welcome back to Reliving Single.

[Erica Alexander]

Welcome back.

[Kim Coles]

The official unofficial, unofficial rewatch podcast.

[Erica Alexander]

Podcast.

[Kim Coles]

I love it.

[Erica Alexander]

I love it. Yeah, there we go.

[Kim Coles]

So we're talking about an episode called A Kiss Before Lying, but I want to just tell you. No lie. I love my earrings. So Erica gave me these earrings. You were recently in Brooklyn. You know that? I'm from Brooklyn. And so I hope y' all are getting all up on these beautiful Brooklyn earrings.

[Erica Alexander]

It looks great on you. And purple is your thing, by the way, and they're really wonderful. It came from a place called Brooklyn, made with some. The chamber of commerce really tries to support artists, and so that's an artist that you've got there and, you know, just giving some love. But it looks really great on you. Welcome. I'm always thinking of it.

[Kim Coles]

I didn't even know about these, and I, you know, made it happen for the show today.

[Erica Alexander]

You sure did.

[Kim Coles]

No lie. No lie. No lie at all. So thank you.

[Erica Alexander]

This week we gonna be talking about lying, right?

[Kim Coles]

A lot.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

Kiss Before Lying.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

This episode.

[Erica Alexander]

Yep.

[Kim Coles]

So what happens in this episode?

[Erica Alexander]

Well, we got season one, episode four, A Kiss Before Lying. This is where Max's former boyfriend invite to dinner with him and his fiance. Max agrees, and as usual, chaos ensues.

[Kim Coles]

Now let's talk about the. Why would this man come to meet you with his fiance knowing that you all were broken up?

[Erica Alexander]

I don't know, but men are, you know, they're not logical creatures. You know, you don't look to them for too much logic. You get what I'm saying? That's just what it is.

[Kim Coles]

Emotional logic.

[Rob Horn]

Okay.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. Not good. But you know in the B story.

[Kim Coles]

Is Overton is trying to fix the water pressure in the apartment.

[Erica Alexander]

There you go.

[Kim Coles]

And he's. He's good at that. Right. But he's also trying to fix some Other water. Some. Some other pressure. He's trying to put some pressure.

[Erica Alexander]

Overton. Yeah. On who?

[Kim Coles]

On me.

[Erica Alexander]

Sinclair. Okay.

[Kim Coles]

Well, not pressure, but he has set his sights on me and he's using. Fixing things and my fascination with him, with his ability to fix things to woo me.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah, it works.

[Kim Coles]

In the end, we get married.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, yeah. You're not giving anything away. Not this rewatch thing. So it's, you know, it's a perfect demonstration of our season theme, which is chemistry. We talk a lot about that. It's no small thing. This was written by Rob Horn and Danny Margosas. We love them. Yeah, they were fantastic writers. They are still. They had great voice for what they put in the show. In particular for Max. Yeah, Max and Kyle, they were. They did a lot of those storylines.

[Kim Coles]

I think what's interesting about them is that they had this really great ability to write quips and back and forth. Great back and forth.

[Erica Alexander]

Quippy, clippy, snappy, acerbic.

[Kim Coles]

Yes.

[Erica Alexander]

Pulled up off of it.

[Kim Coles]

They were the best.

[Erica Alexander]

They had a light touch. Not an easy thing to do.

[Kim Coles]

No, no.

[Erica Alexander]

And they demonstrated really well in this episode. In this episode, we got. No, we got some great friends.

[Kim Coles]

Come on now.

[Erica Alexander]

The sexy. Come on.

[Kim Coles]

Come on now.

[Erica Alexander]

Kita Smith. Y' all know her. She's a future Bernie Mac wife. Kita is one of the sexiest people.

[Kim Coles]

She really is. John Hinton says, and I hope I'm not going to get in trouble saying, he says, she's scary sexy. I said, well, John, what do you mean by this? I can't. I can't. If you don't understand, you don't understand. He says, she's scary. She just. She. But she. It's. It's not put on, it's not fake. It's just her DNA exudes this sensual beingness.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. Every time she walks past me, I think I got a twinge. And you know, I'm not even. You know what I'm saying?

[Kim Coles]

If she's also kind and sweet and all that goes along with it. But there is a sensuality about her that just is natural.

[Erica Alexander]

And who else do we have?

[Kim Coles]

Jeffrey Sams, who is lovely.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. So handsome and waiting to exhale, all of that.

[Kim Coles]

But we had him before all that.

[Erica Alexander]

Who?

[Kim Coles]

We had Jeffrey Sams before all this other. All the other things happened. Yeah. I love it.

[Erica Alexander]

That's one thing the show was really good at.

[Kim Coles]

Our guest star.

[Erica Alexander]

Guest star roles for really talented people. And so we were blessed by that. So, yeah, we got all them on there. And Max is Now developing, we see her, you know, expand. I mean, up until now, we know she's a lawyer. We know she keeps talking about this boyfriend that has done her wrong and.

[Kim Coles]

Doesn'T leave with a raggedy duffel bag.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah, yeah. And she's coming into her own. And Kyle is going to be recruited in this episode to be her boyfriend. And so we start to realize what a great comedy team we are together. If I say so myself, what amazing.

[Kim Coles]

Chemistry you all have. Naturally.

[Erica Alexander]

Again, you don't know that it's there. If you got it, it's partners, it's gold. It's something that you can't.

[Kim Coles]

You can't manufacture it.

[Erica Alexander]

You can't manufacture it. It's a really fun episode. And the real story you should know is from Yvette Lee Bowser's life. She had a boyfriend and he knows about this, that I think they were going to get married or something, and then he left her. And I think she was hurt by it, but she turns it into comedy gold. That's the thing about Yvette. She's resilient.

[Kim Coles]

Indeed, indeed.

[Erica Alexander]

She's wanted to be a lawyer. It's based on her real life experience, but it became therapy for her and I was playing it out. Had no idea.

[Kim Coles]

Had no idea.

[Erica Alexander]

Had no idea.

[Kim Coles]

Does she say to you that you did it well, that she really resonates with what you did, or that you healed something, or that she saw it a different way because of the way you played the character?

[Erica Alexander]

No, I never heard her say anything like that. Although, Yvette, if you want to, I'm here.

[Kim Coles]

Listen, when she comes on the show, let's ask her. When she comes on the show.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah, but you know, she's definitely writing from her. The thing is, I didn't know that about her. You know, again, I'm playing a part and don't even know that it's connected to her. I think it took me some years to really realize how much. Yeah. So. Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

All right, good. Well, let's watch some clips.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah, let's get it going. Power with the posse. It's urgent. What's up? Yo, Greg called. Tell me this is not the Greg I'm thinking of. Tell me this is Greg the mailman. Tell me it's Greg the bald headed barber. You better tell me it's Greg Brady. No, it's the Greg. He left four messages on my machine today.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, that's nice.

[Erica Alexander]

Don't call him back.

[Kim Coles]

So we're now seeing Maxine Shaw in her full glory. Is this your First a story.

[Erica Alexander]

I don't know. I was part of an. A story with. When they're fighting over, like, you know, don't date the man. I just don't. That type of thing. So. But I think it is the first time we see it on her. Right. Her life. And it's. Yeah. So she comes through the door. Boom, boom.

[Kim Coles]

First of all, that jacket was incredible.

[Erica Alexander]

I look good, dude, you look great.

[Kim Coles]

You look great.

[Erica Alexander]

The power suits.

[Kim Coles]

The power suits.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. They understood.

[Kim Coles]

They understood.

[Erica Alexander]

You know what? And it was a thing in the 90s. There was a lot of power suits. If you look like Murphy Brown and even L. A Law. Right, right. Women was wearing their power. Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

Wearing these sort of more masculinized looks in order to really assert their power.

[Erica Alexander]

That's true. But I didn't think they were masculinized because I looked like a girl. You saw that power collar.

[Kim Coles]

It's true. I'm just saying, in general, the look was. Now we're gonna wear suits like men. Yours was, you know, it was shaped, tapered. Right. And you always wore like a, you know, like a pencil skirt or something.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. That had heels. To this day, people think I'm taller than I am. Cause I was always wearing heels.

[Kim Coles]

You're always wearing those heels.

[Erica Alexander]

Yes. She blasts through the door and she's, you know, got some news. That's some news. Old boyfriend Greg, the person that she's been complaining about for the last three shows. And we sort of seen some of the pathology in her and the trauma that he left her and just left with his what, his old stinky, raggedy duffel bag is back.

[Kim Coles]

And we all know that that's a big deal. Like, uh. Oh, so there's a, you know, Khadijah coming in.

[Erica Alexander]

Like, mm, mm.

[Kim Coles]

No, uh, we're not having it. And I'm like, let me just see if that's the right guy. You mean raggedy old. And so I repeat exactly what you've been saying that, Greg. You're like, I might have talked about it once or twice.

[Erica Alexander]

Exactly. And, you know, so that the setup is important and we get it done.

[Kim Coles]

Here's what's beautiful about that. If someone starts with that episode, they now know that there's a history, that she's been talking about this forever. They don't have to have watched all the episodes leading up to it.

[Erica Alexander]

That.

[Kim Coles]

That's the power of great writing.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah, it is. And they've got to do. It's an ensemble piece, so you've got to float these stories between many different characters and also continue to sort of, you know, like a person who's juggling. Juggle the things that are. So that's where the Overton B story comes in.

[Kim Coles]

Right. Let's watch another clip.

[Erica Alexander]

I'm calling Greg. Well, go ahead and call him with your weak self. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm fine. You're fine. What do you want? Dinner tomorrow? Well, since you're only gonna be in town one day, I guess we could work something out.

[Rob Horn]

You are so weak.

[Erica Alexander]

Someone special? Sure. Your fiance. Click, hang up. Dial tone.

[Kim Coles]

We care so much about you. We're telling you. Cut him off. Cut him off. Cut him off.

[Erica Alexander]

You know what? That right there is an example of trauma. So you see, Max, she calls him up. She's being all tough about it, but the minute he mentions that he wants to be in town and he wants to see her, she.

[Kim Coles]

It's a softening.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah, but they're like, no, don't do it. Say, no, thanks, and then go on. But then he drops another with a fiance, and that's when she should say, I'm good. But again, the trauma's pulling her in. And though Khadijah's like, no, no, end it here. She can't end it because it didn't end. She's gonna have to go through with it.

[Kim Coles]

He ended it for her, right? Cause then he broke up with her and just sort of left.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah, Like a hanging chad. Right? People in the 90s know what that's about. You know, Google it.

[Kim Coles]

Hanging Chad.

[Erica Alexander]

It's 2000.

[Kim Coles]

Right? Right. Okay.

[Erica Alexander]

So she wants to, you know, pull that chat off.

[Kim Coles]

I love that. She's not, you know, I want to see, you know, who. How he chose someone over me. It's just in that moment of, like, fine, I look forward to seeing you. Fine. I think I did disagree to that.

[Erica Alexander]

A lot of chicks do that. People want closure. But also, if somebody left you and, you know, you were really into them, they were into you, and you never got an explanation, she got to go through with it. That's like, you know, Frodo and the Lord of the Rings. You got to pass through Mordor and throw the ring into the fire. She gonna throw that ring down that. Right down that hole.

[Kim Coles]

Throw down the gauntlet.

[Erica Alexander]

Exactly.

[Kim Coles]

What's next?

[Erica Alexander]

Well, it's the beginning of the tradition of our table, our eating, you know what I mean? Where we have dinner. We have the characters having dinner, and the fun of all that.

[Kim Coles]

The fun in the family of all that. Cause we're seeing now that they're really a family, too, and how we're gonna support you through this ring of fire.

[Erica Alexander]

Right, right. And y' all also gossipy and busy and nosy. So you wanna be there to support, but you also wanna be there to, you know, witness history.

[Kim Coles]

Family.

[Erica Alexander]

We sound like witches.

[Kim Coles]

We do that. Oh, beignets.

[Erica Alexander]

Oh, beignet.

[Kim Coles]

I strongly suggest you get one of your boy toys over here and have.

[Rob Horn]

Him pretend that he's your steady.

[Erica Alexander]

I'm not gonna lie like that for Greg.

[Kim Coles]

So I wanted to say something about the beignets. And there's something else I just remembered that was happening at the same time. So, you know, we see Overton as, you know, just sort of a salt of the earth, you know, easy, you know, simple Midwestern guy. And I remember that what was part of that script, you know, the beignets were there. So when Overton came into the room, he's like, oh, beignets. And it was like, what does he know about a beignet? And it's like it gave you a little sense of there's more sophistication. There's more worldliness there than we think. And that was a little. Little thing that was added there. That was really beautiful. So to this day, when I have a beignet, I think of y' all going, ooh, beignets.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. Well, you know, Max is, you know, now she's in it. She's got the dinner set up. You know, this is where we find that Regine is a really good cook, right? And that's the one thing that, you know, chopping and doing, chopping and doing. Got an apron and all that. She's in the kitchen, and she's, you know, nervous, but she decided she doesn't need cover. She's just gonna present herself as she is. She's got the COVID Not the COVID but the reality of having a law degree. She looks great. Everything she got, good friends. She'll need anything else, but it's regimental. The troublemaker who's like, yeah, but you also look, you know.

[Kim Coles]

Alone.

[Erica Alexander]

Alone, yeah.

[Kim Coles]

To embellish a little bit.

[Erica Alexander]

Now, how many women have felt that, that they have to, if they meet somebody, gotta have somebody next to them as opposed to meet them, you know, all free and happy, you know, no underwear, no bra. You know what I'm saying?

[Kim Coles]

She's telling you that you will be better set up for success if you also have one of your boy toys show up and pretend to be something that's really not even happening.

[Erica Alexander]

And that gets Max's mind going, thinking maybe I do need some more than just me.

[Kim Coles]

Trouble.

[Erica Alexander]

Troubled troubles around court.

[Kim Coles]

Come on here. Here comes the trouble right now.

[Erica Alexander]

Kyle.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, pardon me, honey.

[Erica Alexander]

So wait, let me get this straight. You want me to be your man. That's what I heard. Well, we gotta. Of the fact that she's at the table, she's enduring this, but she's feeling less and less. And then, ding dong, I'll go get it.

[Kim Coles]

She's looking for. That's actually like a release for you. Like you don't know who's coming to the door.

[Erica Alexander]

Do you have no idea? Just trying to get out a tight spot. And then there's T.C. carson is Kyle. Kyle. Kyle has no idea what's going on. And as she's pulling him forward across her, we can see the.

[Kim Coles]

The whole story in his eyes. And I love this sort of sideways walk that y' all are doing into the kitchen. And he's. I don't remember him saying hello to everybody, you know, good evening. He's gonna still be pleasant, like, good evening, everybody. Good evening. Oh, my God. What's about to happen?

[Erica Alexander]

Well, you know, she's formulated the idea, and this is her opportunity. And the grace note, before they go in or after they go in the kitchen. Is that the great Kim Fields asks Khalida, where did she go to school? And Khalida says, oh, just Eastland.

[Rob Horn]

Where did you go to school?

[Erica Alexander]

Oh, I went to a small private school called Eastland. Hmm.

[Rob Horn]

Never heard of it.

[Kim Coles]

If you notice, Fields look to the camera is so quick.

[Erica Alexander]

Never heard of it.

[Kim Coles]

Never heard of it.

[Erica Alexander]

And then looks at the camera. Pitch perfect.

[Kim Coles]

Pitch perfect.

[Erica Alexander]

Pitch perfect. She breaks the fourth wall.

[Kim Coles]

Come on.

[Erica Alexander]

Because we know that Eastland is a shout out to Facts of Life. That's where they went to. So, you know, so that's a.

[Kim Coles]

Not. That means the audience is like, oh, y. That was for us. Yeah.

[Erica Alexander]

And for people who knew. They knew and people didn't. You kept it moving. They're in the kitchen. And that's when we just cut to the chase. So you want me to be your man. And they agreed to it.

[Kim Coles]

And I love that sweet moment. So we know that you all have been teasing each other already, you know, for episode and episode. Episode. We see this relationship beginning, but there's a softening that he has for you. Like, you know, I'm your friend. Of course I'll help you. And then, of course, then it goes right back. I'm gonna enjoy being your man. This pow.

[Erica Alexander]

And it smacks me on the ass. You know, I love it. I love it.

[Kim Coles]

I'm gonna take advantage of this moment. Cause I'm actually attracted to you anyway, so. Oh, well.

[Erica Alexander]

But we know. We don't know he's attracted. They're still sniping at each other. It's nothing like that at all.

[Kim Coles]

I didn't think about that.

[Erica Alexander]

Not at all. He's gonna enjoy being her man. So he can ruin her life in this moment and make her feel all queasy.

[Kim Coles]

Okay. I'm thinking for that moment, he enjoyed doing it. Cause he's always wanted to.

[Erica Alexander]

That's what I interpreted. So I think he's sort of saying, this is what your man does. Pow pop you on your ass. And that's.

[Kim Coles]

And you have to take it.

[Erica Alexander]

I got to take it. Cause I need him to be a man. Exactly. So she's got to endure something. Be careful what you wish for.

[Kim Coles]

Right. I love that in the moment of you grabbing him and taking him to have a private conversation, he observes the entire scene.

[Erica Alexander]

He takes it all in.

[Kim Coles]

He sees your old boyfriend, his fine fiance. So he was able to take that. Cause, you know, he's a ladies man anyway, so he took it all. He knew what was going on. And you. A spinster.

[Erica Alexander]

A spinster. And he says it in that English accent.

[Kim Coles]

A spinster.

[Erica Alexander]

Now A spinster. You know, I have to say, when I used to watch episodes of Little House on the Prairie, there was always a spinster.

[Kim Coles]

Of course, there was always a spinster.

[Erica Alexander]

There was a little widow lady, the person at the grocery store. And a spinster. And a spinster meant you were either the school mom that had sort of dedicated themselves to education, or somebody who was just maybe homely, who could not get a date.

[Kim Coles]

Could not get a date.

[Erica Alexander]

It was way past, you know, being fresh in the market. And the worst thing you could be back in the day was good.

[Kim Coles]

Because we rely as women, we relied on men to take care of us.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. That's how.

[Kim Coles]

And so if you couldn't get married, if nobody would marry, if nobody would be with you, then you were spinster. It was the worst thing in the world.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

However, nowadays, I. I have had several aunties who like, have spun that whole spinster thing into a whole other. Like, their lives were fabulous because they didn't get married, because they didn't have children, because they didn't.

[Erica Alexander]

Oh, come on. It's a whole thing. It's a whole. You know, Yvette and the writers used Susan, the character, to show that there was an imbalance and that There was, you know, people who were for the career like those women, and there were people who maybe leaned more on the traditional sort of path. For Max, she was young, so she wasn't neither.

[Kim Coles]

She needs to be a spinster.

[Erica Alexander]

Yet it was clear that she was a career woman. Indeed.

[Kim Coles]

Indeed. I want to know, do you think that Max thinks of herself as a spinster? No.

[Erica Alexander]

I mean, if anything, that we have in common, straight off the bat are that we are pro feminist ideology. I happen to have. The initials of my name are Erica Rose Alexander. E R, A. The Equal Rights Amendment. I really thought growing up that that amendment was for me.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, wow.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. Not even kidding you. And I thought that was so unfair that I was a woman. I really didn't like being a girl.

[Kim Coles]

Really?

[Erica Alexander]

No. I had two older brothers. We were in Arizona. You're up in the mountains. It's very traditional. You've got your German, Lutherans and all that. Very traditional sort of setups with the mestizo, the Mexican and the Hopi, Navajo. These are all very traditional setups. And the woman had a place in that that I didn't feel had any part of what I thought I was on the world to do.

[Kim Coles]

And that was just within you. That wasn't something that your mother placed in you or something you saw just born. Like, ah. Being a woman in this society is gonna feel restrictive because of what I'm being.

[Erica Alexander]

If I could have pulled off my puss and my breasts, I would have.

[Kim Coles]

Really?

[Erica Alexander]

Because dudes got to do everything. I mean, we used to go on little trips and they got to go horseback riding and they gave us horseshoes. What's that? I don't wanna play no horseshoes.

[Kim Coles]

It was super, super traditional.

[Erica Alexander]

I was like, yeah, I wanna go on the adventure. And I didn't like that. And my father was cut like that. This is a true story. He would buy us food, and, you know, we didn't have much. We were always eating, like, bologna sandwiches and whatnot and, you know, lunch meat sandwiches. He would get the ham, the boys would get the salami, and we'd get the bologna.

[Kim Coles]

Wow.

[Erica Alexander]

The girls got bologna.

[Kim Coles]

Put that on a T shirt, the girls get bologna.

[Erica Alexander]

Even our candy bars. The boys got Butterfingers and we got Baby Ruths.

[Kim Coles]

Well, I like a Baby Ruth. I didn't.

[Erica Alexander]

I wanted a Butterfinger. I mean, why are you choosing that on my behalf? Because we were girls.

[Kim Coles]

Let me ask you this. When was the first moment that you realized that you could break through all that? Like, how old were you when you Were like, wait a minute. Just because these roles have been given to me by this time and this space and where I was, that I don't have to do that.

[Erica Alexander]

You know, I didn't realize it. It's just that I started to become very much and affect myself like a boy. I ran with the boys. If you look at my body now, I've got scars all over the place. I ran as hard as they did. I played with them and my mother at the. At some point, you know, because I just spent all the time with my brother. I said, you know, you just. If you're like. It's like being a cat in a room full of dogs. And you say, I'm just gonna act like the dogs and then they won't know I'm a cat. But at a certain point, my mother pulled me aside and said, erica, you're gonna. Cause I would always have my shirt off. You're starting to, bud. And you're gonna have to wear a T shirt, bud. I thought I would pass out. I'm like, who is she talking to?

[Kim Coles]

Wow.

[Erica Alexander]

I was so mad. You can ask my sister Carolyn. I just was crying, saying, I hate being a girl. I hate it.

[Kim Coles]

Do you like being a girl now?

[Erica Alexander]

I love it.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, I know you do.

[Erica Alexander]

My puss is still intact. I have rear breasts. They set up.

[Kim Coles]

The balloon butted nicely.

[Erica Alexander]

But, you know. But it's been a bit. It's been something to wrestle with. It wasn't that I didn't appreciate it. I just didn't like how it held me back.

[Kim Coles]

And does it hold you back now?

[Erica Alexander]

It does. You know, what could I do with a penis? Are you kidding? And don't lighten my skin, but look.

[Kim Coles]

At what you have done with your vagina. Look at what you've done with your vagina.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. I have done so many things with my vagina, but, you know, this vagina is worn out. It would like a little, you know, support. You see what I'm saying?

[Kim Coles]

We have very different views. I can't wait to. This is hysterical.

[Erica Alexander]

But it's the truth. Everybody knows that.

[Kim Coles]

But let me ask you.

[Erica Alexander]

You can be a woman and appreciate it, but also be. Tell the truth.

[Kim Coles]

Right, right, right. I'm going to ask you this, though. So you have been given this body, this package. This package, yeah. Look at how much you have done with being a woman and what you have overcome. Or you say, there's still some roads to hoe, and I'm not calling you a hoe.

[Erica Alexander]

Thanks.

[Kim Coles]

But look at what you have done with what you have. How do you feel about that?

[Erica Alexander]

I thank you for that. I think it's a great compliment. But you can also say and observe that black people have done a lot of despite how they're perceived in the world. If you're in America and say, look what you've done with what you have. And they're saying, yeah, but do you know what I could do if I didn't have this obstacle? And yet would I still be that same person?

[Kim Coles]

I don't know.

[Erica Alexander]

Would we have sang the blues in rock and roll and punk rock?

[Kim Coles]

That's what I'm saying.

[Erica Alexander]

In Ragtime and all the things that came out of us, we are people that have created ourselves out of whole cloth. And so women have done that too. They really have. It's just the observation of feeling that despite that, you still not. You have an anchor to a tanker. I'm like, you know, let me run, let me work. You say, let me work, let me work, let me work, let me work. But that's not what we on earth to do.

[Kim Coles]

Right?

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. So right.

[Kim Coles]

You look pretty good from my perspective.

[Erica Alexander]

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[Erica Alexander]

We've been talking about this episode and you know, the dynamic between Max and Kyle and that kind of thing. Kim, I think we should call one of the writers who created this dynamic.

[Kim Coles]

We have one of the writers who created this dynamic right here, right now. Please welcome to the stage the great Rob Horn.

[Erica Alexander]

Yes, let me tell you about Rob Horn real quick because you know, just so you know, he is in London right now doing his thing. He is an American plan. He's a screenwriter and producer. He's best known on the stage for his Tony Award winning book for the Broadway musical Tootsie. So if y' all saw Tootsie, you saw Rob's work, you probably saw Schuck. I saw Schuck. He's done so much Hercules, all of these things. He's an amazing writer and he's had a phenomenal career. Got the Drama Desk Award for Outstanding Book Musical. Outer Critics Circle Award for Outstanding Book of Musical. New York Drama Critics Circle Award for Best Musical. He's a killer. And he's got that Tony in 2019. And it made that amazing speech, which was so beautiful. Cause you talked about your mother and you talk about your husband and everything, but inside of it was just funny and it just showed how quick your mind is. So thank you for joining us, Rob. We love you.

[Kim Coles]

How are you?

[Erica Alexander]

How are you?

[Kim Coles]

How's this funny?

[Rob Horn]

It has been so long. You look exactly the same.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, thank you. You're looking good. You know, right now, we've been talking in this reliving, single, unofficial official podcast about the episodes. And so we're going in order. We've been talking about episode four, which you and Dani Margosis are credited for. What was your approach to the Max and Kyle dynamic to set all this up?

[Rob Horn]

The thing is, it was early in the first season, and we started to. And we wanted to start to set up where that relationship might go and how that might go and the internal conflict of the characters and that it was more dimensional than just a rivalry between the two of them or just a conflict between the two of them, but that there actually was an attraction that they were fighting. And so once you could set that up early in the season, you really had the opportunity to play with that. It also. And this is all from the incredible mind of Yvette Bowser. So we just did the. We just wrote the words. It was all from her. But also one of the wonderful things about it was you got to see how alike they actually were as characters and how they were fighting their similarities, and that that's where their attraction came from, was the fact that they were so much alike, they couldn't stand looking at themselves that deeply.

[Kim Coles]

Now, was that baked in already, or did you develop that you and Danny and Yvette and the rest of the writers, you know, developed that? You know, it becomes sort of an unveiling for you. And then we as actors get the script and then we go and play. But how does that unveiled or unearthed for you?

[Rob Horn]

It was a number of things. The chemistry between the two actors was undeniable. And there was so much comedy to be mined from that that. So. So Yvette would sit down and say, what do you. What do you all want to write? What characters do you want to write? Or what? And so Danny and I said, we really want to write something for. For Max and Kyle. And so we brainstormed that Idea at the table with all the writers and. And. And she let us write it. It was very in our wheelhouse, that kind of conflict comedy, that sort of banter. That banter, yeah.

[Kim Coles]

The two of you are, I think, were some of the best at that because that was also baked into your relationship. Like, you knew how to play. And the acerbic and the sarcasm and the play. It was just. It was perfect.

[Rob Horn]

And I think because we, before this, before Living Single, were writing Designing Women, we really started to learn how to sort of elevate that kind of comedy and sort of make it what we do.

[Erica Alexander]

I'm glad you mentioned Designing Women, because that means you were writing for women and very women who had strong personalities. And how did you, as a writer over the years, learn to do that? I mean, you're male and you're, you know, obviously are in the world.

[Rob Horn]

That's questionable.

[Erica Alexander]

That's your gift. Yeah. You know, Well, I.

[Rob Horn]

You know, I.

[Erica Alexander]

You're male.

[Rob Horn]

I say thank you. I was raised in a household of all women, so I didn't have a dad, and I was raised by my mom and my grandmother and my twin sister. And so I sort of. And I think maybe because I was gay at a time when there was a, you know, when it wasn't as accepted as it is now, and so you learn to understand what it's like to feel like a minority in some ways and to un. And being raised by all women, I sort of got an insight and an understanding of the prism for how women view the world. Much more so. And I was sensitive to that, and I just sort of related to it.

[Erica Alexander]

Wow. I mean, because thankfully, because one of.

[Rob Horn]

The great things about Living Single and also about the dynamic between those two characters is that it was never mean. It was sarcastic, and it was funny and it was biting, but it was never mean. None of the comedy in that show was ever mean. And I think that's what made it so relatable.

[Erica Alexander]

Wow. You know, people want to always try to figure out what's the recipe, and that's hard to do because sometimes the easiest place to go with comedy is to be mean. But it's more of a gift and talent to sort of figure out how can you do these things and still have a layer of integrity that doesn't, you know, cross over to meanness?

[Rob Horn]

And the thing about those two characters is that they were so smart, so they knew how to press each other's buttons in a very specific way, which really helped with the dynamic. And. And I think the audience really wanted them to get together. The audience wanted them. You saw that coming. The fun was gonna be how and if it was gonna happen.

[Kim Coles]

You know, now that I'm hearing your love of the characters, your love of women, and your love of finding that balance between, you know, being acerbic and sarcastic, how do you as a writer feel when you hear your words displayed on stage? How does that feel to you? Do we do it right? Do we do it wrong? Are you there with us? What do you feel?

[Erica Alexander]

Are you hoping for different takes?

[Rob Horn]

Well, I've been very lucky that I've gotten to work with a cast like Living Single. And the six actors on this show, the principal actors, were spectacular. You all wore a. It was like watching the Carol Burnett show because it was just like. You were truly an ensemble. Everybody elevated, everybody. Yvette created such specific characters that it was kind of easy to write for. I love. I love. My reason for being on this planet is to make people laugh. That I. Nothing gives me more joy than bringing laughter. And so to see your work presented to an audience and in live theater. One of the things I love about live theater is you hear that laughter instantaneously. But the thing. Great. And we had a live audience on Living Single, and they just. They would go nuts. They would go nuts for you all. It was crazy. And often when you do live studio audiences like that, they. People would want to leave early because you do take after take and everything. Our audience stayed.

[Erica Alexander]

Yes.

[Rob Horn]

They. They were committed. They wanted. And that was that. That's speaks of your talents.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, thank you.

[Erica Alexander]

Lovely. Thank you. That's a beautiful thing. I mean, we want to talk a little bit about Max's truth bomb inside of the show. She drops it in front of everybody and Greg. Max.

[Kim Coles]

Phoenix.

[Erica Alexander]

Phoenix. This is crazy. Greg. Kyle is not my boyfriend. I'm not a partner at my firm. I've never been anywhere near Paris. But none of this is reason enough for my friends to sit here trying to make my life seem better than it is by lying to you. There you go.

[Rob Horn]

You were so good.

[Erica Alexander]

So good. Thanks, love. I mean, I was just doing as I was told through the written word.

[Rob Horn]

Well, you know, the thing about it was we really wanted to set up the integrity that Max had as a character, as a lawyer and as a character. And she couldn't. She just couldn't lie. She couldn't. She couldn't pretend to be something she wasn't. You know, I remember we talked about. Does the reveal come because she just couldn't handle Kyle anymore. But it Wasn't that. It had nothing to do with that. It was that she just. Her integrity couldn't handle lying.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah.

[Rob Horn]

But also, one of the things that I love about it is how her friends rallied around her and were willing to. To play that game and lie for her and make all this stuff up for her, and she just couldn't be responsible for that. I mean, it's a beautiful thing that it showed so early in this series how connected these women were and that they were family.

[Kim Coles]

I love the depth of this, you know, so someone watching this show feels it and sees it and feels the relatability, and they resonate. But to hear this, you know, this deep. You know, this deep work that goes into developing these characters, putting them in places so that they have another place to go, is really rich. And I hope that the audience is loving this other level to it. It's not just words on a page and a bunch of actors read the words, like, this is thought out. I think the best shows are well thought out. Like, I didn't even think about the integrity piece. That's incredible.

[Rob Horn]

Yeah, that was a big part of it. And, you know, I gotta say that I've been doing this thing for 35 years now, and I think. And without a doubt, living Single was one of my favorite experiences and adventures in this business because of you all. The cast just loved each other so much. We had so much fun. It was just. You would write for these incredible women, and they would bring this stuff to life in a way that was better than anything you could write. It was a wonderful time in my life, and it taught me how to do what I do now. Yvette Bowser taught me how to do what I do now.

[Kim Coles]

I've heard that there's a legend of her being able to run a writer's room so that the writers felt supported and felt incredibly ready for the whole season. Can you talk a little bit about the power of the writers room and the power of having an executive producer who has the vision so clear that all you have to do is step in and do the work. Yeah.

[Rob Horn]

I mean, I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly, she was the first woman to have her own show on network television. Black woman. Yes. And she also. This was one of the shows that put Fox Network on the map. And there had never been a show like this. Four women who were strong, supported each other, loved each other, were funny, were independent. That had not been done with women of color before. And so this show was groundbreaking. And at the same way, yvette running a room was groundbreaking because she wanted everybody to excel. She really took young writers like us and brought us under her wing and taught us and said, I'm going to teach you how to run a show. I'm going to teach you how to work in a room. I'm going to teach you all this. She was never threatened by anybody else's talent. She supported them. She wanted you to be great. So the writers room were as much fun as the set was because you could say anything and do anything and you would never have to worry about being judged or being wrong. Everything was met with love in that room. It was a great training ground. And so many writers from that show went off to become incredibly successful because of Yvette Bowser. And of course, she still is a legend and has, you know, just been winning awards and writing incredible stuff. But I love that woman. So, so much of my career is owed to her and what she gave me as a writer and as a person.

[Kim Coles]

Good.

[Erica Alexander]

Oh, gosh, I got goosebumps right there.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, me too.

[Erica Alexander]

I mean, it's true.

[Rob Horn]

And I know you all felt the same.

[Erica Alexander]

She was sure. Yeah, we know. We have. When you're on set in a warehouse, we have an experience sometime of the writers and the, the producers and the executives in studio being all the same. We don't get, or I'll say, to speak for myself, this sort of conversation that you're giving to give us insight on how these things go. Because by the time y' all come in, it's like you're watching what we've done in rehearsal and then you're coming back with new scripts all the time and there's this sort of flurry of activity.

[Rob Horn]

There's no time for those conversations. I mean, it is. It is a mosh pit. It is crazy. You have, what, four or five days to do a new play every week.

[Erica Alexander]

It's a new play each week. I think it's one of the most brutal schedules you can have, even though it has some kind of, you know, hiatuses, because you have three day weekends and then every fourth week off. But you kind of need that because you're otherwise you just go a little mad.

[Kim Coles]

But the writers don't take a hiatus. You all are still in there working, right? So the actors are off stage, but you all are still in there doing it. So this is a beautiful perspective to hear because again, we do. Sometimes I used to think of it's, you know, the writers over there, the studio over there, the network over there, and we Come together a couple of times a week together, but there's no time for those conversations. That's powerful.

[Rob Horn]

There really isn't. And the showrunner, Yvette, is dealing with the network and the studio and the writers. She's the middle person for all of it because they give their notes to her, and she then has to siphon those notes down to us in a way that we understand what we have to go in the room with her and then do. At the same time, we're dealing with next week's episode while she's editing last week's episode, while we're arcing out this. It's all happening at one time, and.

[Erica Alexander]

It'S live because we have two live audiences on Thursdays. So by Monday, we're reading. By Thursday, we're live. It's ridiculously complicated, but you all were.

[Rob Horn]

So good at it. And the longer we went on, the more you all really got into the depth of those characters.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah.

[Erica Alexander]

Thank you.

[Kim Coles]

Thank you.

[Erica Alexander]

Speaking of which, so. So Max is revealed in the scene. She says, enough. And then Greg and Max have the conversation in the kitchen where they finally have the clothes that she's wanted all this time.

[Kim Coles]

Well, I'm about to take a pretty.

[Erica Alexander]

Major step in my life, and I just want you to give you my blessing. Well, I ain't the Pope.

[Kim Coles]

I'm not really here for your approval.

[Erica Alexander]

I just wanted you to know that I've made. I missed you.

[Kim Coles]

And I realized that when I left, the way I left, not only was I losing a lover, I lost my best friend.

[Erica Alexander]

That is such crap. That I realized what's been bothering me all this time wasn't that you just packed your old raggedy duffel bag and left. It was that you didn't even bother to take the time to say goodbye. I didn't know how. Let me show you. So knowing that that final closure is coming, because, you know, in episode one, we have Max set up that. She says, you know, he left me with a raggedy duffel bag. It's sort of something that becomes like a.

[Kim Coles]

Slowly I turn step by step, and.

[Erica Alexander]

Then finally, here it is.

[Rob Horn]

Well, you know, at the beginning of the episode, she's. She's convinced. She doesn't care that she's going to be fine. And what happens is, in. He comes with this woman, and she's not fine, but I don't think she's. If I remember correctly, it has nothing to do with the other woman. It has to do with her lack of closure with him that she never got because Max is a kind of character that she's very cut and dry. She's very sort of. There's not a lot of gray with Max and that relationship. She was not. She was not. She thought she was fine. Cause she always thinks she's fine. But she wasn't done. And having him there showed her she had to finish this. She had to complete this.

[Erica Alexander]

That's awesome. And, y' all, that was a beautiful thing, because suddenly the comedy becomes very grounded with a drama sense. And I got to, as an actress, drop into my drama training or, you know, just, you know, notes, and you could feel the audience listening, and I. And it becomes very. I don't know, I get teary when I think about it, because she's vulnerable.

[Rob Horn]

She's very vulnerable. And one of the things that Yvette would tell us all the time, which is true, which is any great comedy is grounded in truth, and it is grounded in some kind of relatability. And dramatic situation comedy is drama through the prism of humor.

[Erica Alexander]

Come on.

[Rob Horn]

And so what was great about Living single is we did this a lot, which is you'd be laughing, laughing, laughing, and then suddenly you'd have a moment of pathos or a moment of truth. And it made the comedy even funner, funner or even more fun, because we didn't have to make that funny. All we had to make that was truthful.

[Kim Coles]

Woo.

[Erica Alexander]

Masterclass.

[Kim Coles]

That's a master class.

[Erica Alexander]

That's a master class right there. I hope y' all getting the. That was the conversation we wanted to have on the reliving podcast, because we knew that people see this thing, but they don't see this huge sort of village that comes together. And how many people who have, you know, you studied your whole life, meaning you were born with the DNA of comedy, but you also bring it to bear in this inside of a partnership that is collaborative in a writer's room.

[Rob Horn]

Yeah. And Danny and I had a partnership for years. We were together for 15 years as a. And we were so different. We brought very different things to that partnership. And Yvette put together a room. Everybody was good at something different in that writer's room. She was very smart about that. Everybody that she hired was great at either a certain character or a certain dynamic or a certain talent. So that together, it was cohesive.

[Kim Coles]

I'll tell you the truth. I'm going to give you flowers. Rob, just a moment here. I can tell you I'm gonna speak for myself, but I bet you I speak for most of us. When we would see you and Dani's name on a script. We'd be like, ooh, this is gonna be good.

[Rob Horn]

This is gonna be.

[Kim Coles]

I'm not saying it wasn't the case for the other people, but we knew what we were fitting to get because of the magic that you all so uniquely brought. And it would be like, ooh, good.

[Erica Alexander]

Buckle up, buckle up.

[Kim Coles]

It's about to be good.

[Rob Horn]

We loved writing. We loved you all.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, I could tell.

[Rob Horn]

And loved writing. We used to get in trouble because we would sneak down to the set to try to hang out with you all the time.

[Erica Alexander]

And we did have a good time. That was something else.

[Kim Coles]

We know how much you got and wrote and understood the Max and Kyle characters and their trajectory. We have to know, what do you think they would be like today?

[Rob Horn]

Here's the thing that I love about them is I think they would never have broken up. I think they would just still be fighting and bantering and not holding anything in, which is what would keep them together. And so I think they'd still be together and still be that couple that everybody just. That were fun and funny and angry and fighting and all that, and had incredible sex because they held nothing in. They told the truth to each other. If they were new characters, that's an interesting thing, because the world has changed a lot since we did this show, but I don't know how much they would have changed. I think Max would still be fighting for the same things she fought for. Social justice and equality and. Right. And I think Kyle probably would have gone off and had a career in show business and become a singer, which is really, I think, what he always really wanted to do. Right. And. And I think they would support. Still support each other. I think Max would say initially, think, I've got to hire a partner in a law firm. Marry a partner. A law firm. And then. And she'd have a whole list of what she thought she wanted, and then she'd fall in love with him anyway because it was. Because it was meant to be.

[Kim Coles]

Meant to be.

[Rob Horn]

Yeah. Meant to be. They were meant to be sort of like Overton, and you. You know, it was. Those two characters were just meant to be together.

[Kim Coles]

Indeed. Indeed.

[Erica Alexander]

Just like the chemistry. We talked a lot about how the show had something that was in it that you can't even plan for. You do your best. But the chemistry, not just between the characters, between the cast and the crew, was phenomenal.

[Rob Horn]

To this day, I still walk around all the time going, flavor, Flavor. All the time.

[Kim Coles]

Flavor.

[Erica Alexander]

Is that flavor Magazine that was When?

[Rob Horn]

Yeah, Flavor magazine.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, that was when Louise Jefferson.

[Erica Alexander]

Louise Jefferson, Yeah. On the show Flavor.

[Rob Horn]

Flavor. That. And I always go. And you'll remember this one O Beignets.

[Erica Alexander]

Oh, yes, we talked about that.

[Rob Horn]

Oh, that was. That was mine.

[Kim Coles]

You know what it is?

[Erica Alexander]

I remember that.

[Kim Coles]

But it was. You know, nobody expects that Overton would know what a beignet is because he's such a, you know, salt and salt.

[Rob Horn]

I loved that. He was a Renaissance guy.

[Erica Alexander]

Yes.

[Kim Coles]

I love that. You got that.

[Rob Horn]

I loved that he was a blue collar Renaissance guy.

[Kim Coles]

Blue collar.

[Erica Alexander]

Which I loved to write mainstream characters and also build them out. So they're sophisticated, too.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. Thank you for that.

[Rob Horn]

He was a philosopher in many ways. He was great.

[Kim Coles]

I love that. I love that.

[Erica Alexander]

Bobby Rob. Oh, we gotta get together. Oh, my God. What are you doing in London right now, though? Right now?

[Rob Horn]

Right now I'm opening two shows. One is a show I had on Broadway called Shocked, which we're opening at the Regent Park Open Air Theater. And then I'm opening Disney's next big musical, Hercules, which is opening at the Royal Jury Lane.

[Kim Coles]

Come on.

[Rob Horn]

All in within a month of each other. So I'm gonna ask you this.

[Kim Coles]

Was this your dream? Was your dream Broadway?

[Rob Horn]

Ultimately, it was. I love television. I started as a playwright, went to la, had this career in television that I never expected, which was a great training ground for me, but I always knew someday I'd end up going back to theater. But I still do both. As you know, television has changed a lot in the. Especially post Covid. And so I'm very happy in New York writing my. Writing my plays and musicals. But. But I still, you know, we still do pilots, and we will forever be.

[Erica Alexander]

Fans and friends, and we.

[Rob Horn]

So mutual.

[Erica Alexander]

Thank you. Everything that you've done and your contribution to the history of television that doesn't always include the most marginalized communities is huge. And you are doing that all the time in your work, whether it's tootsies and shucked and all this other things. So thank you for that.

[Rob Horn]

It's an honor to talk to you all. I love that. Living Single. I mean, it's still as popular as it was, and it's crazy, isn't it? Okay, so Erica, you know this Erica came to see one of my shows on Broadway. The cast went bananas, right? Bananas, bananas. The generations are rewatching this show and relating to it, and there's a lot of power in that.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, yes, indeed. And so thank you for putting your power play inside of you, because that's what People need to see it's human work every day.

[Rob Horn]

I thank Yvette for. For giving us the opportunity to be a part of this family.

[Erica Alexander]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Rob Horn]

Bye. Thank you. So flavor.

[Erica Alexander]

Bye, love. See you in London. Bye, darling.

[Kim Coles]

See you.

[Rob Horn]

London needed one more queen.

[Erica Alexander]

They got it.

[Kim Coles]

Ladies and gentlemen, the great Robert Warren.

[Erica Alexander]

Thank you.

[Rob Horn]

Bye.

[Erica Alexander]

Bye.

[Kim Coles]

That was great.

[Erica Alexander]

Oh, extraordinary, right?

[Kim Coles]

Extraordinary.

[Erica Alexander]

I told you.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. Masterclass.

[Erica Alexander]

You know what? Let me just say that there can't be enough flowers given to the people that in the dead of night take a blank paper and make something from nothing. All their work happens way before they meet that page. The living, the learning how to write. Well, learning how to write with someone else's voices. Doing it in collaboration. That right there is a skill.

[Kim Coles]

And there's another piece in something you just said about the dead of night. You know, this is the work that most people don't get to see. It's not the glamorous side unless you're winning the awards on Broadway and blah, blah, blah. But we know sometimes we would get rewrites and they don't come until 2, 3 o' clock in the morning. And that's the team behind the scenes putting it on the page. And you know, as actors, we often get the glory. Cause the light is on us. But I love that you really wanted to bring him in and give him his shine and give him his. And all the writers like it was a teamwork.

[Erica Alexander]

We're do that throughout because they have a larger story to tell and I.

[Kim Coles]

Really hope that people are listening. There's so many nuggets that are applicable in your life and in your work as well. Absolutely.

[Erica Alexander]

And it doesn't happen overnight.

[Kim Coles]

Does not.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. Suck it up and get the work done.

[Kim Coles]

This is the reverb. Our time to reflect on the episode's themes and how they still echo throughout the culture. Welcome back. Now we're talking about how Living Single explored whether women with careers felt like they were enough on their own. So, you know, the 90s was a time that I think it was a really big time that we were really discussing whether or not women could have it all.

[Erica Alexander]

Are. Are we still saying that women have to choose and feel maybe more fulfilled if they have all of that? I mean, that's the weird part. It's not either or. Now they want you to do it all right.

[Kim Coles]

And having it all is, you know, some of the pressure and also some of the freedom that you now, you know, my mother's generation, my mother married at 25 and 25 was old. Back in her day, like, you needed to be married and have your kids. And for her generation and. And from where she's from, it was have your education and your marriage and your kids.

[Erica Alexander]

Right. Well, you need to have a bank account. And there was a lot of people who didn't follow that. And then when the marriage fell apart, they didn't have the thing and they.

[Kim Coles]

Didn'T have the income, which is happening to this day, too.

[Erica Alexander]

But you know what? I gotta say something. From being a woman of color and a black woman, we always were working.

[Kim Coles]

Of course we were.

[Erica Alexander]

When we crossed, when they took us across the ocean, you know, and kidnapped us, we didn't come here to lay up. We were working. So even the women's movement, and you think about the suffragette movement, women wanted to get the right to work, and not just in the home, but the right to work. But black women have been working for hundreds of years doing all of these things, just not in the office, not getting paid fairly, all that other stuff. So it wasn't about being a spinster. We were breeders.

[Kim Coles]

We were born to breed, unfortunately, born.

[Erica Alexander]

To breed, unfortunate, you know, circumstances. And we were workers. So that in us, to work and have family has always been a thing. Right?

[Rob Horn]

Right.

[Erica Alexander]

So I think right now we're starting to see people who have. Have the soft life. But that right there is a connection that black women weren't making and even felt like they deserved.

[Kim Coles]

Right. And then there's the other piece of it, too, of working and working to raise up the ranks at the job. Right. So that's like also part of the. And there's women who've had to make that decision. I'm going to, you know, put off getting married or put off having children because I want to. To, you know, rise up this. This ladder. And I guess now we have more choice than ever. And now there's ways to have babies a little bit later and you could decide if you want to get married or not. There's all. There's all kinds of rules that have been broken and meant to be broken.

[Erica Alexander]

You have all these methods, or you can just go to Walmart and steal one from off the parking lot. That's what you get, kids.

[Kim Coles]

I'd like to strike that from the record, that that's not something that you.

[Erica Alexander]

Should do, shouldn't do, but it is.

[Kim Coles]

Possible, but it happens.

[Erica Alexander]

Did you ever feel the pressure to be on a specific path, you know, career first, man first?

[Kim Coles]

I didn't. And I'm lucky that, you know, listen, my Mother didn't. My mother, who was very. Grew up in a very traditional time. I know that she had a little bit of rebel on her and rebel in that, you know, she grew up in the south, and it was expected to get married right away and get your education right away, get married right away, start having children right away. My parents got married at 25, which was late for that generation, and didn't start having children until she was 32. So she was already, you know, doing something.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah, it was. Yeah. More aggressive.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. And really clear. I want to finish my education. Your father and I decided that we wanted to have enough money and have a home already. And so already that. And so it was never instilled upon in me that you must do it this way. You must do it. It has to be this way. I want grandbabies by a certain time. And so I'm grateful that the freedom was given.

[Erica Alexander]

But we're also talking about women again. Women of color who have not had this sort of nuclear point of view of how to do something. There was no rules around you. You had to work. And if you were working, especially after the civil rights legislation, you were trying to get into school. Cause school meant that you could not only feed your family, but maybe even be promoted inside of a new world that didn't exist yet. So I think that your mother is coming from that sort of, you know, point of view. This is different because now women are now trying to even decide whether they want to be with men. There's this whole 4B movement in Korea where women are saying, we can get together, own a home, we can get sperm if we want to. We don't have to have the burden of going and dating and all that other stuff. But we can have a lifestyle vacation. All these other things that heretofore wasn't in the cards unless you did it traditionally or at least got married.

[Kim Coles]

So I'm trying to.

[Erica Alexander]

Or had a boyfriend.

[Kim Coles]

Put it in my brain. How does this. What does this have to do with this whole have it all? So you're saying these women are saying that you can have it all.

[Erica Alexander]

That's having it all.

[Kim Coles]

But is it having it? It's having it all through the lens of what is having it all? Is the maybe that's the question. What does. What does it mean to have it all? And I think it is subjective. I think it is. I think different ages and stages and different times in history decide what. So having it all, I think, used to be the traditional. Have a husband. I have 2.3 kids, we have a house, we have the, you know, at one point it was, I get to stay at home and he gets to go home, go out and work. Then it became, I want to work and have myself fulfilled and have my gifts fulfilled. So I think the question is really, what is having it all? And I think our show, and this time that we were doing it the 90s, was about exploring what having it all really meant and getting to decide for yourself what that meant.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah, right. Well, back in the day, if you didn't get married, you were a spinster. So living single gets to reclaim the whole spinster life. To say, you know, that's not Spencer wasn't so bad. If you look in those movies, the Spencer was the person who was either maybe the schoolteacher or the person who was so ugly that no one would marry her or problematic. No one would marry her. And if somebody said you were spinster, that was like the worst thing you could say about that.

[Kim Coles]

That was horrible. Like you were unlovable, unlikable. Nobody wanted to.

[Erica Alexander]

Nobody bought the cowboy. They didn't want your milk, you know, worst thing.

[Kim Coles]

But now today we have this whole other fresh, new, you know, Rich auntie. Like, I don't want no husband, I don't want no kids. This energy of now I get to have my version of have it all. Like, you don't want me, I don't want you neither. Let me just do this. You know, one of my favorite makeup lines is a black owned line called the lip bar. And they have a lipstick called Rich Auntie. And when I tell you it is gorgeous and purple, you know, and so there is that, you know, get to maybe now having it all is having the choice to have it all and getting to decide for yourself what you want.

[Erica Alexander]

Just deciding what all is, deciding what all is. Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

And I will say that there are in making those decisions, there are. Are there sacrifices or are there something that you give up or is it something that you, you know, there are. There are people who have waited to have their kids and go, I wish I had done it earlier. Some who missed the window altogether. Like, I'm not gonna do that. So you get to determine what, what that is for you.

[Erica Alexander]

But we're still in the dark ages a bit.

[Kim Coles]

Why do you say that?

[Erica Alexander]

Because we still don't even have control of our own bodies. The truth is, having it all depends on making sure that there's that a structure in place that's not creating obstacles for people who want to move forward. Whether it is having Children or not having children or being able to pursue your education and afford it. Many women who go into later things like being executives and CEOs and even politics, they had to wait till later because they were raising their kids, they were getting their education. And you say, well, why are they so old? I said, because men have much more freedom in that space. And this is a time living single that we were not only answering and asking that question, but that's an experiment inside of the psyche of women who, for the most part, we're straddling the traditional sort of life that may be the expected thing and being these trailblazers. And there's a bridge there. And I think different worlds talked about in education, but living single is the working prototype for it.

[Kim Coles]

Maxine was demonstrating that you can have, I'm gonna say, have it all, but you get to choose powerfully for yourself. And that's jarring for folks, I guess, for some. Well, I shouldn't say jarring in a bad. That's not the right word. It's new. It's refreshing. It's refreshing.

[Erica Alexander]

It is. It is. And it can also, you know, there's blowback. There's always blowback.

[Kim Coles]

Was there a blowback? You feel there was.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, we're living in the blowback. This is the blowback right now. You know, if we're still talking about that, you can't have body autonomy. And we had that coming in. We had that. Then it wasn't even a question. That's what people had fought for. But here we are, and it is a question.

[Kim Coles]

Don't get me started on, you know, femininity and the divine feminine and how the patriarch has been. So, like, we're back to we gotta batten down the hatches on the femininity. Batten down the hatches on the sexuality. Batten down the hatches. Like, it's. Like it's something scary. But why is it scary? Is the magic question.

[Erica Alexander]

Because that's why they wanted Max to be put across the street. Character too strong. That was it. Already surfacing in the headwind, saying that that's gonna be challenged. And so for people who think progress comes and goes and, you know, you beat something and that's it. That's not true. As humans, we really make these sorts of decisions. Every time people step up, we're talking about the same themes. And I love that we talked about it in comedy because that means that everybody can have, you know, a stake.

[Kim Coles]

And it's an open door. It's a softer landing for people. In comedy?

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. They don't even know. Yeah. That's like, what, smuggling.

[Kim Coles]

We smuggling the message in the comedy?

[Erica Alexander]

Yes, baby. You were looking at my nipples, but the whole time I was moving. Moving and grooving, getting my degree, you know what I'm saying? Wielding it like a sword of truth. But now we have the orcs coming out of Middle Earth. It's tough. Get ready, Frodos.

[Kim Coles]

Isn't it interesting that you were across the street, but you were always. You were always here? So this decision to create a remove, literal and figurative and physical remove, actually didn't work whatsoever.

[Erica Alexander]

Oh, it backfired.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah.

[Erica Alexander]

Because every time she was there, boom, she made an entrance. And every time you make an entrance on stage, the audience pays attention.

[Kim Coles]

All right, we're getting to one of my favorite parts of the show, where we hear from you, our listeners, our people, and we have a question.

[Erica Alexander]

Our family, our fans, our friends, all of the above. Come on.

[Kim Coles]

All of the above. Amber, tell us what the question is, please.

[Erica Alexander]

All right, so this question comes from Paula from Philly. Paula from Philly. Come on, Philly.

[Rob Horn]

Come on, Philly.

[Erica Alexander]

Thank you.

[Kim Coles]

And she asks, Erica, what was it.

[Erica Alexander]

Like to kiss Greg like that at.

[Kim Coles]

The end of the episode?

[Erica Alexander]

And how many takes did you do? The actor who played Greg is beautiful, man. Gorgeous, tall, nice clean breath.

[Kim Coles]

Jeffrey Sams.

[Erica Alexander]

That's right. It was delicious. I've also liked very much in this acting life the perks, and that's one of them. Every now and then, you get to roll up on people that you didn't even have to work to get. And it was great. You know, he was lovely. There's never anything inappropriate. We do it all, you know, for the show. The actual kiss is a real meeting of, you know, minds. No, I dug in. I dug in. I loved it. And, you know, am I a whore?

[Kim Coles]

You're an actor.

[Erica Alexander]

You're an actor. You're an actor. I'm a consummate, I'm acting method. I wanted to go further, but he said, no, it's all good. I love you anyway. Thank you, Paula.

[Kim Coles]

Thank you, Paula. Thank you, Jeff.

[Erica Alexander]

Join the local theater. You never know who you'll kiss. Kim, this first season is a way into a whole world, and it's really cool because we get to have the gift of hindsight to gain insight and help these poor souls out there. You know what I'm saying? Really? Because it's tough being single and living single. So, you know, let's stay tuned because we got a lot of, you know.

[Kim Coles]

Jewels to give you a lot of wisdom to drop.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

Speaking of wisdom that was dropped, Robert Horn was absolutely delicious. Delicious. Thank you. Yeah, it was beautiful.

[Erica Alexander]

It really was. Thank you so much, Robert. And thank you for taking time in London to. To discuss it, but also for doing the work.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, for doing the work. Showing us how it's done.

[Erica Alexander]

Masterclass.

[Kim Coles]

And we want all of you to keep tuning in every week, all the places where the podcasts are. You can write us at reliving single podcastartbeat.com and that's H A R T B E A T dot com. Tell your friends. Isn't this good? It's good.

[Erica Alexander]

It's great.

[Kim Coles]

Juicy conversations and we look amazing. That's really. Listen if you're watching. If you're listening, you might want to watch the video, the VOD part of the vodka.

[Erica Alexander]

See us all moisturized.

[Kim Coles]

Looking good.

[Erica Alexander]

Fabulous.

[Kim Coles]

All right, we'll see y' all next week.

[Erica Alexander]

Yep.

[Kim Coles]

Bye bye now. Bye bye now. Reliving Single is hosted by Erica Alexander and me, Kim Coles. Reliving Single is a production of Heartbeat and association with Color Farm Media, executive produced by Kevin Hart, Jeff Clanigan, Eric Eddings, Leslie Guam, Erica Alexander and Ben Arnon. This show is produced by Kim Coles. Amber Watson is our senior producer. Our associate producer is Kenny Jackson. Our video editor is Shannon Joy Rogers. Our sound engineers are Eric Hicks and Cedric Wilson. Production supervision by Razak Boykin. Additional production support from Alex Atkins and Z. Taylor, and a Special thanks to Dr. E.J. johnson.