"Wonder Kid" featuring Gary Leroi Gray

Summary

ReLiving Single Podcast Episode Summary: "Wonder Kid" featuring Gary Leroy Gray

Release Date: July 2, 2025

Introduction

In the episode titled "Wonder Kid," hosts Erika Alexander and Kim Coles delve into the intricacies of parenting and child acting, drawing parallels between real-life experiences and their beloved sitcom, Living Single. Featuring a special guest, Gary Leroy Gray, the discussion offers listeners an insightful journey through the challenges and triumphs of balancing career and parenthood, both on and off the screen.

---

1. Opening Conversation: Reflections on Parenthood

The episode begins with Erika and Kim reflecting on their personal choices regarding parenthood. Erika asks, "Do you regret not having kids?" leading to Kim's heartfelt response about her decision to freeze her eggs at 48 and the poignant conversation with her doctor:

Kim Coles [00:18]: "I wanted to freeze my eggs. And my doctor said, your eggs are so old... if you had a baby, it would come out on a walker already."

Erika humorously adds:

Eric Alexander [00:32]: "The kid is that cold."

The hosts share their experiences of not having biological children but instead having children named after them, emphasizing the lasting legacy of Living Single.

---

2. Introduction of Guest: Gary Leroy Gray

The conversation shifts to introduce Gary Leroy Gray, a seasoned actor known for his roles in various beloved TV shows. Erika recounts her early experiences as a child actor, highlighting the challenges of being on set without parental support:

Eric Alexander [02:07]: "It was my first time on a set professionally. My mother could not be with me. I was alone on set a lot."

Gary joins the discussion, bringing a wealth of knowledge from his extensive career, including memorable roles in The Cosby Show, Family Matters, and voice acting in Fairly OddParents.

---

3. Deep Dive into "Living Single with Children" Episode

Kim provides an overview of the Living Single episode being discussed:

Kim Coles [05:03]: "We're watching a season one episode eight, A Living Single with Children. The storyline is that Regine begins seriously dating Patrick, who has a child. The B story is that Kyle becomes a member of a Big Brother program."

Notable guest stars Raven Kelly and Gary Leroy Gray are highlighted for their roles, bringing depth and authenticity to the episode's exploration of parenthood within the context of the show.

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4. Experiences as a Child Actor

Gary shares his journey into acting at a young age, from being discovered in Philadelphia to landing a lead role in a Merchant Ivory film:

Gary Leroy Gray [03:31]: "After several screen tests, they gave me the role. That was the beginning of my career... I learned a lot of wonderful things from those beautiful on the job training."

Kim underscores the professionalism of child actors on set, emphasizing the importance of being role models:

Kim Coles [03:58]: "My first kids on the show were real pros. They had it together."

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5. Parenting Styles: Personal Stories vs. TV Portrayals

The hosts juxtapose their real-life parenting philosophies with those depicted on television. They discuss how Living Single portrays different parenting styles through characters like Regine and Kyle, highlighting the show's nuanced approach to blending humor with serious themes.

Kim narrates a specific scene where Regine auditions to be a mother, revealing her vulnerability and integrity:

Kim Coles [11:23]: "Regina did always tell people what she did or did not want. And nowadays I get the feeling that a lot of people hide that..."

Erika adds her perspective on the importance of honesty in relationships:

Eric Alexander [23:04]: "She has a point of integrity and character. I'm not ready for all this, and I'm not sure this is gonna work out right."

---

6. Gary Leroy Gray's Acting Journey and Current Projects

Gary discusses his transition from child actor to adult roles, emphasizing the significance of adaptability and personal growth in his career:

Gary Leroy Gray [49:33]: "I had to make sure that my mental... was okay before I go out and do all of that."

He highlights his upcoming projects, including returning to Fairly OddParents and venturing into animated productions as a producer and writer:

Gary Leroy Gray [57:55]: "I'm working on my own stuff, you know, as a producer and a writer. Mainly animated."

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7. Impact of Television and Media on Parenting

The hosts engage in a thoughtful discussion about how television shapes societal views on parenting. They reference classic shows like Leave It to Beaver, The Brady Bunch, and The Cosby Show, analyzing the portrayal of parental roles and their influence on real-life parenting styles.

Kim shares personal anecdotes about her parents' approach to parenting, contrasting traditional discipline with gentle parenting techniques:

Kim Coles [35:26]: "My mother established a beautiful trust. If you come home and tell me that something happened, I will not punish you."

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8. Memorable Quotes and Insights

Throughout the episode, several notable quotes encapsulate the discussion's essence:

• Kim Coles [25:00]: "When the time is right, honey, I'm having me a whole bunch of babies. My jeans are too good to waste."

• Eric Alexander [32:04]: "A woman, a mother, has to change because we have to change then."

• Gary Leroy Gray [53:19]: "The success of a child actor requires complete partnership with the parents."

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9. Conclusion: Reflections on Parenthood and Legacy

As the episode draws to a close, Erika and Kim reflect on the enduring legacy of Living Single and the importance of open conversations about parenthood. They encourage listeners to engage with the podcast by sending in questions and sharing their own stories.

Kim Coles [63:41]: "Thank you so much for watching this episode of Reliving Single."

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Key Takeaways:

• Balancing Career and Parenthood: Both hosts and Gary emphasize the challenges and rewards of managing professional ambitions alongside personal desires for family.

• Influence of Media on Real-Life Parenting: The discussion highlights how television portrayals can both reflect and shape societal norms and individual parenting styles.

• Child Acting Experiences: Gary's insights shed light on the complexities of child acting, including the necessity of strong familial support and the importance of maintaining one's identity amidst public scrutiny.

• Legacy of Living Single: The podcast reinforces the show's impact on redefining comedy, friendship, and the Black experience, encouraging listeners to appreciate its cultural significance.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Kim Coles [00:18]: "I wanted to freeze my eggs... your eggs are so old..."

• Eric Alexander [02:07]: "It was my first time on a set professionally..."

• Kim Coles [05:03]: "We're watching a season one episode eight, A Living Single with Children..."

• Gary Leroy Gray [03:31]: "That was the beginning of my career..."

• Eric Alexander [23:04]: "She has a point of integrity and character..."

• Kim Coles [35:26]: "If you come home and tell me that something happened..."

• Gary Leroy Gray [53:19]: "The success of a child actor requires complete partnership with the parents."

---

Final Thoughts

"Wonder Kid" serves as a poignant exploration of the intersections between personal life, career, and societal expectations. Through candid conversations and shared experiences, Erika Alexander, Kim Coles, and Gary Leroy Gray offer listeners a rich tapestry of insights into the multifaceted world of parenting and acting. Whether you're a longtime fan of Living Single or new to the series, this episode provides a meaningful reflection on legacy, growth, and the enduring bonds that tie us together.

Transcript

[Eric Alexander]

Do you regret not having kids?

[Kim Coles]

I just got up in age and it was gonna be a little too old. And I remember I went to my doctor at around 48 is when I decided, like, wait a minute, at 48.

[Eric Alexander]

You come ambling in at 48 saying.

[Kim Coles]

I want to freeze my eggs. And my doctor said, your eggs are so old.

[Eric Alexander]

After she got off the floor.

[Kim Coles]

Right. Your eggs are so old that they're probably scrambled. And if you had the kid, the.

[Eric Alexander]

Kid is that cold.

[Kim Coles]

And you know who the doctor is because we had the same doctor. Cold blooded.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

And she said if you had a baby, it would come out on a walker already. So there's other methods that we can make you a mother if you really want it. So it was. Yeah.

[Eric Alexander]

What about you?

[Kim Coles]

Do you regret not having dad?

[Eric Alexander]

Well, you know, I was married and, you know, I had a few shots at the target, but, you know, I had no bullseye.

[Kim Coles]

Well, I tell you what, we didn't have children of our body, but we have children named after us because of this show. We do.

[Eric Alexander]

We do indeed. I have Max's and that's a really cool thing.

[Kim Coles]

I've met Erica's, I've met five Sinclairs. It's so warm. Like, my name is Sinclair.

[Eric Alexander]

Woo woo, woo.

[Kim Coles]

Like, who's the real Sinclair here?

[Eric Alexander]

Boo Boo.

[Kim Coles]

It's so sweet.

[Eric Alexander]

No, I think it's cool. As long as they don't come after us looking for child support. Welcome back. Welcome back to Reliving Single, the official unofficial Living Single rewatch podcast. Yes.

[Kim Coles]

When we were talking about kids and I'm working on a show with kids right now, it's called Vampirina.

[Eric Alexander]

Okay.

[Kim Coles]

And I was very concerned and the kids are amazing. They're professional, they know their line. So I get a chance to work with these kids all day long. It's kind of cool.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

So wait a minute, you were a child actor, weren't you?

[Eric Alexander]

Ivos Ivos, 14 years of age. Wow. What was that like? You know, So I was discovered in Philadelphia. I was going to New Freedom Theater. It was a six week program. And in the fifth week of this program, a movie came to town. It was a Merchant Ivory film called My Little Girl. And they were looking for girls to be in this film and they encouraged us because we were all going to school to audition. And so I showed up, you know, five o' clock in the morning. I was second in line. And by the time they opened the doors, maybe around eight or so, the line wrapped around several times. They kept switching us back and forth with each other and putting us together. And somewhere in the middle of the afternoon, they handed me a new script and they said, you know, we want you to take a look at this role. And I was a little disappointed because I was like, oh, no, not but girl. That was the lead role. And after several screen tests, they gave me the role. That was the beginning of my career. And it was interesting because that was my first time on a set professionally. My mother could not be with me. I was alone on set a lot. But you have co stars and they partially, I think, are responsible for raising me and giving me some of the best set habits and work habits I could get. And I learned a lot of wonderful things from those beautiful on the job training. Right. On the job.

[Kim Coles]

That's the way it is. That's what really happens. You learn all the best stuff on the set.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah. Especially if it's measured. I think their expectation was that whatever I had, they didn't want to mess with. Mm.

[Kim Coles]

Okay.

[Eric Alexander]

So they didn't wanna give me acting notes. They just wanna make sure I was all right.

[Kim Coles]

We're bringing all this up because this is the episode where we had our first kids on the set. My first kids on the show. And I remember that they were real pros. They had it together.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah, right. Yeah, they were. This is the way it feels to move through summer in Lululemon iconic aligned softness without the front seam for our smoothest look and feel ever. Summer won't know what hit it. Stretch your limits in the non stop flexibility of the new Lululemon Align no line pant in select stores [e-mail] if you're thirsting for asphalt smelting your work boots. Tape measure has anger issues. Nail guns talking smack again. And hard hat baked onto head level refreshments. We definitely have that.

[Gary L. Gray]

Cool off with Gatorade Summer Blaze available.

[Eric Alexander]

Only at Circle K. When you're feeling the heat, Circle K makes your day.

[Kim Coles]

It's time for the rewind where we watch and relive living single with you. So this week we're watching a season one episode eight, A Living Single with children. And the storyline is that Regine begins seriously dating another perfect man, Patrick, played by the wonderful Dominic Hoffman, who you all will recognize from a different world and other things. Now, he's not married, but he does have a child. And then the B story is that Kyle becomes a member of a Big Brother program. And here come our child actors. We have Raven Kelly, who you all will recognize as young Anna May Bullock from From what's Love Got to Do With It. Remember she was singing?

[Eric Alexander]

Great.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. This little light of mine. They took her out to church or whatever. It's beautifully played by her. And then we had Gary Leroy Gray, who people will recognize from the Cosby show and a bunch of other shows.

[Eric Alexander]

And I just realized that the episode titled Living Single with Children is of course to mimic and mirror Married with Children, which was the big hit then there.

[Kim Coles]

Yes, I just got that. I just got that. Anyway, so in this episode, TC became a mentor. Listen, TC has mentors. And so he really loved this storyline. I remember him really getting into this on our set. We had to be really careful not to curse and carry on.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

We had to behave ourselves.

[Eric Alexander]

We had to behave ourselves and make sure that we were good role models. At least for that week.

[Kim Coles]

At least for one week. Come on in.

[Khadijah]

Oh, Patrick, you devil, dropping by unannounced. Oh, and me looking such a mess.

[Kim Coles]

You should have seen it 10 seconds ago.

[Gary L. Gray]

I think you look great.

[Eric Alexander]

These are for you. I was gonna have them delivered, but I wanted to see the look on your face when you got em. Do you have any brothers?

[Khadijah]

Ignore my desperate roommates. Can I get you some coffee?

[Eric Alexander]

Oh, sorry, I can't stay. I have to pick up my daughter from dance class.

[Kim Coles]

It's nice to meet you all.

[Eric Alexander]

I'll call you later. I'm just realizing she answered the door in a negligee.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah.

[Eric Alexander]

What? I was just waiting for you.

[Kim Coles]

Just right in this purple looking amount, you know? Yes. Cause what did she have on before? A whole other thing. And the bandana and the whole thing just went upstairs to get. Yes.

[Eric Alexander]

What in the world.

[Kim Coles]

Yes. And we never said, oh, oops.

[Eric Alexander]

But how come we never said anything about it?

[Kim Coles]

We didn't say a word. But it was perfect.

[Eric Alexander]

You know, Husseyville is real. You keep calling her. But what for her character. Right.

[Kim Coles]

She just came down like, what are you doing here?

[Eric Alexander]

That's ridiculous.

[Kim Coles]

Well, because listen, he's a perfect man. She knew that he had a kid, but we didn't know.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah. And Overton likes.

[Kim Coles]

She. Overton likes him because he has that moment like. All right, and let's talk about also how she's dressed. You know, she's not wearing a wig. She just has her braids and dresses.

[Eric Alexander]

Well, she doesn't need to wear a wig when you're wearing two breasts in a negligee. I mean, you know, don't gild the lily.

[Kim Coles]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Eric Alexander]

Guess we're not going to the zoo today, huh? No.

[Gary L. Gray]

Kevin, that's what the books are for, to prepare you for the zoo. I want you to learn all about the animals.

[Eric Alexander]

They're furry and they have teeth. I just want to feed them. Come on.

[Gary L. Gray]

When we get upstairs, we'll start with the marsupials.

[Eric Alexander]

Uncle Obi. Hey, man. Come on. Saw it up. Hit the rock. Take it down.

[Gary L. Gray]

Kevin, what do you say we go upstairs and check out my record collection?

[Eric Alexander]

But all we have to do is look at them.

[Gary L. Gray]

Well, that's because they're collector's items.

[Eric Alexander]

Uncle Obi lets me play them. No, he doesn't. Wow. So we also see that Kyle is part of the Big Brother program, Right? And the little kid is cute and adorable, but, like, I mean, my goodness, he loves Overton more than he likes Kyle.

[Kim Coles]

So they're establishing that he's been a Big Brother to this little boy for a while. Cause there's a, you know, obviously a relationship there.

[Eric Alexander]

Like, two.

[Kim Coles]

What you're gonna have to learn before we go have fun.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah. And plus, you know, when he sees Overton, he does the handyman greeting and everything. Yeah. They know each other, right? To do this type of, you know, cosplay that they're in, you know, as parents, they chose the two most superficial characters, which would be Regean and Kyle.

[Kim Coles]

And sets up an incredible conflict, which we're about to really see. The kids are built with BS Detectives.

[Eric Alexander]

And she's gonna go off like, a car alarm when she meet. Shut up. Shut up. Okay.

[Khadijah]

All right. Nobody move. Hi, Camille.

[Eric Alexander]

This is the very nice lady I.

[Gary L. Gray]

Told you about, and her name is Regine.

[Eric Alexander]

Easy for you.

[Khadijah]

Oh, well, thank you. Why don't you call me Auntie Regine?

[Eric Alexander]

Daddy. She's pretty.

[Khadijah]

Call me Mommy.

[Eric Alexander]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Kim Coles]

So, first of all, Kim Fields looks just like her mom in that season. Like in that scene. I'm sorry.

[Eric Alexander]

It's actually weird.

[Kim Coles]

It's really.

[Eric Alexander]

She looks so much like her mom that I put on my glasses to.

[Kim Coles]

Make sure it was really her.

[Eric Alexander]

It was her.

[Kim Coles]

That's number one. I have a question. Was the car honking an ad lib?

[Eric Alexander]

I think so. Yes.

[Kim Coles]

I think so.

[Eric Alexander]

Yes.

[Kim Coles]

And you kept going. And I want to know if feather dusting you was an ad lib or was that in the script? Do you remember? That was so good.

[Eric Alexander]

I actually don't think that they put feather dusters in there. But you know what? At the beginning of every scene, they say, what do you guys want to be doing? And sometimes they give us a piece of business. So after we Read the script. First thing we do is a rehearsal, and we're staging each of the scenes.

[Kim Coles]

Where we're sitting, where we're gonna stand, where we're gonna walk, when we walk.

[Eric Alexander]

Right?

[Kim Coles]

And then you gotta fill in the blanks with props.

[Eric Alexander]

And who was our prop guy? Steve.

[Kim Coles]

Steve. Stevie Props. Stevie Props, yes.

[Eric Alexander]

And he would come in and say, what do you want, Eric? And I say, give me my glasses and a newspaper, and I'll just be sitting here. Read.

[Kim Coles]

It makes it rich and wonderful. So now we gotta get into the depth of what's going on. She is about to audition to be a mom, and she's decided that money will be fine.

[Eric Alexander]

I' you can buy kids, but you can. They are easy customers.

[Kim Coles]

Are they really?

[Eric Alexander]

Well, of course. You buy kids food or sugar, you know, they'll do anything.

[Kim Coles]

Does that mean that they're gonna comply? Over the course of time, you still need to.

[Eric Alexander]

Well, listen, they bribe them. That's a bribe.

[Kim Coles]

That's a bribe.

[Eric Alexander]

Okay. They do it for a little while, but then they're manipulating you. Kids are very clever.

[Kim Coles]

Once they figure out that, oh, I can get something out of. And so she's willing to bribe this kid because she wants this man so bad.

[Eric Alexander]

Exactly. So she thinks he can. But then suddenly, who comes in the door now? This beautiful raven, Kelly comes in with these yellow daffodils with this bright smile, and she hands them over to Regene, and Regene falls apart.

[Kim Coles]

And then she goes, daddy, Daddy, she's pretty.

[Eric Alexander]

Boom. Boom.

[Kim Coles]

Call me Mommy.

[Eric Alexander]

Call me Mommy.

[Kim Coles]

Who's bribing who?

[Eric Alexander]

Who's bribing who?

[Kim Coles]

And so there we have, you know, Kim feels as Regine dressed down, dressed simply, you know, just a little bit of baby hair and her braids.

[Eric Alexander]

She's not gonna be. She's trying to look like she's wholesome, right? You know, that's her version of Little House on the Prairie, right? Tuck it all away. Maybe that's why, in a way, she looked like her mother. Cause her mother would be, you know.

[Kim Coles]

Clothed jeans and very just. I'm down to earth. Look at me.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah, but, you know, we were all doing that, you know, because that was the week that we were on our best behavior, right? And, you know, making sure that we were taking care of them when they came in. They didn't see us, you know, acting a fool, Right?

[Kim Coles]

Well, I didn't know they made bougie.

[Eric Alexander]

In such small sizes. We went shopping.

[Khadijah]

We bought pajamas for our sleepover.

[Kim Coles]

Sleepover, darling.

[Eric Alexander]

Camille, why don't you Go see what Sinclair is doing. Come on.

[Khadijah]

I'm gonna show you how the computer works.

[Kim Coles]

Why is little Thumbelina sleeping at our house?

[Khadijah]

Patrick called, right, with some story about having to stay overnight on business. Ah, Khadijah. This is it.

[Eric Alexander]

This is the test.

[Kim Coles]

What test?

[Khadijah]

To see if I can handle motherhood. And I will not fail.

[Eric Alexander]

And then you press F10 to save.

[Khadijah]

Thanks.

[Kim Coles]

I better write that down.

[Khadijah]

Camille, honey, let's go. Okay, Let me know if you have any more questions.

[Eric Alexander]

Smooches.

[Kim Coles]

Yep, here she comes in.

[Eric Alexander]

Come on.

[Kim Coles]

As a mini regime.

[Eric Alexander]

She's a mini me.

[Kim Coles]

She's having this effect on her. She's gonna, you know, train her up, show her how to go shopping, how to look gorgeous. Yeah, And I love that they'll have a sleepover. They're about to have sleepover.

[Eric Alexander]

Like, who wants to have a sleepover with the kid?

[Kim Coles]

She's auditioning.

[Eric Alexander]

She is going all the way. Right.

[Kim Coles]

And she tells us that, you know, he pretends like he needs to do something else while I take care. This is my chance.

[Eric Alexander]

Right. But she's also appealing to Regine's vanity. Listen, suddenly you have a mirror in front of you that acts like you. You're falling more in love with the child, of course, than with the man. Which is probably what needs to happen in order for you to date the man. You know what I love? In that scene, we see Latifah and they got her dressed in the vest. Whatever. But I love how Latifah walks. She said, dear Camille, isn't there something always smooth about that girl?

[Kim Coles]

She's actually very smooth. You know, maybe they don't know it yet. Cause this is the first time you're seeing her week after week after week on a show. But we got to see her be very feminine and very smooth.

[Eric Alexander]

The way she strides across. She's in the smooth. Everything about her is pretty royal.

[Kim Coles]

It is. It is.

[Eric Alexander]

Including her skin and her hair. She's golden.

[Kim Coles]

I've always said that once she's on a red carpet, she can shut it down.

[Eric Alexander]

Oh, yeah, right. Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

Because she knows how to get out of the way. The queen has arrived.

[Eric Alexander]

You work with a person, but then also you get to look back and admire them. Yeah, yeah.

[Kim Coles]

But when she goes, camille, darling, she's called because she's. Look how she's dressed. And I was like, come on, let me show you how the computer works. And I love that moment, like, she's showing me how the computer works. Did you know Sinclair? Don't know.

[Eric Alexander]

You know what and by the way, nowadays all these kids are showing us how the computer works. Absolutely. You know what? That right there was a futurist vision.

[Kim Coles]

Absolutely.

[Eric Alexander]

That we would all be as Dumb Sinclair when it came to computers. Excuse. Not dumb. Ignorant. Is that a better word?

[Kim Coles]

Ill informed.

[Eric Alexander]

Ill informed.

[Kim Coles]

Whatever you say.

[Eric Alexander]

Dumb. Hey. Hey.

[Khadijah]

I thought you were with Kevin today.

[Gary L. Gray]

No, they sent me a lemon. The kid's with Uncle Obie again. No, no, it's not him, Regine. It's me. I just can't seem to communicate with him.

[Khadijah]

Well, Kyle, being a parent isn't easy. I mean, you've got to walk a delicate balance between what makes the child happy and that which will nurture and bring forth a well rounded human being.

[Gary L. Gray]

What am I gonna do?

[Eric Alexander]

I.

[Khadijah]

Have you tried shopping?

[Eric Alexander]

No.

[Khadijah]

Well, then how can you possibly say you spent quality time with him?

[Gary L. Gray]

You know, maybe things have been too structured. I mean, after all, he's just a kid, right?

[Kim Coles]

Yeah.

[Gary L. Gray]

He just wants to have fun.

[Khadijah]

Well, that's not what I meant. But that's what you got out of it.

[Eric Alexander]

Hey. Well, hello.

[Gary L. Gray]

Oh, just the little man I wanted to see.

[Eric Alexander]

Come here, buddy.

[Gary L. Gray]

You know what? From now on, we're just gonna have fun and we're not even gonna read about it first.

[Eric Alexander]

Cool.

[Gary L. Gray]

Oh, watch the arm.

[Khadijah]

That way.

[Eric Alexander]

All right. Yay.

[Kim Coles]

So now we're seeing a different approach to parenting. And I love how Regine has now become an expert.

[Eric Alexander]

Please.

[Kim Coles]

On what to do and what to say and the ways and beings, and in the end, just take him shopping.

[Eric Alexander]

Does that work for me? Or. He feels like he needs help, so he comes and confides that, you know, it's not working out with Kevin. He says, they sent me a lemon. I love that.

[Kim Coles]

And I love that he quickly figures out, well, maybe it's not him, maybe it's me.

[Eric Alexander]

Right?

[Kim Coles]

And I love that we now have this image of this black man with this kid and wanting to, you know, to teach this kid and be with this kid. And it's really warm and sweet and he really wants to figure it out after calling him a limit.

[Eric Alexander]

And there is a difference, a little difference between their parenting styles. Because Kyle realizes that he wants to connect with the kid. He really needs to connect. But maybe there's a difference because Regine has connected with her kid, even if it's superficial or we think it's superficial. Not for her. That's who she is. She really digs that this child is liking shopping and dressing like her and putting on all the scarves and all of that. So that's really cool. Who's got my golden arm? Max. Yeah. What? Ghost story over. Ooh, scary. That was fun. Good night, Max.

[Khadijah]

We're all going to stay here tonight and sleep on the floor in sleeping bags.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, right.

[Khadijah]

Wait a minute. Max, the whole point of the sleepover was to give Camille some female influence.

[Eric Alexander]

All right? Okay, Camille, what do you think about boys? Yuck. Hold onto that thought. My work here is done. Good night.

[Khadijah]

All right, Sinclair, I'm sorry, but that.

[Kim Coles]

Ghost story really got to me. I can't sleep this close to the front door.

[Eric Alexander]

I had fun today.

[Khadijah]

Well, I'm glad you had fun today. Make sure you mention that to your daddy. Okay, time for bed. Sleep tight, sweetie.

[Eric Alexander]

Good night. Regine.

[Khadijah]

What?

[Eric Alexander]

I have a tummy ache. What? My tummy hurts.

[Khadijah]

Well, what do you usually do when your tummy hurts?

[Eric Alexander]

My daddy gives me the pink one stuff.

[Khadijah]

Pink stuff. Khadijah. Hey, we got any pink stuff?

[Kim Coles]

Now the sleepover has begun. We're fully in it. And we have, you know, this scary story happening. And I gotta say, I kind of like a real child next to Sinclair's childlike wonder. I'm really buying this scary story. Who took my golden arm? You do it.

[Eric Alexander]

Great. Because I love the pan over where to see that you're scared, like, for real. Yeah. By the way, everybody abandons the sleepover.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah.

[Eric Alexander]

Leaving Regean with this child. And then hijinks ensue because guess what, Rayjean? What?

[Kim Coles]

I have a tummy ache now. I guess we couldn't say Pepto Bismol on the show, so we just go the pink stuff.

[Eric Alexander]

And everybody knows what that is.

[Kim Coles]

They know exactly what it is. And you can't say the name of a product without having to pay for the rights to say the name of a product. So we can say it here because this is a podcast and we ain't gonna get in no trouble. But on a show like that, you'd have to pay for the rights to say Pepto Bismol. Yeah.

[Eric Alexander]

Or they would be an ad that was sort of inserted embedded in there. So they're paying you to say their product, but however it is, pink stuff has to suffice. We know nobody knows what pink stuff is. Actually, when I think about it, I actually getting queasy right now. I hope I don't throw up. I'm not even kidding. You like, really?

[Kim Coles]

You don't like the pink stuff?

[Eric Alexander]

No, I can actually smell it. Let's move on.

[Kim Coles]

Okay.

[Eric Alexander]

Did you have a good time?

[Khadijah]

Camille is the sweetest, cutest kid God has ever made.

[Eric Alexander]

She wore you out, huh? No. Yeah.

[Khadijah]

And to tell you the truth, I'm not ready to be a mother.

[Eric Alexander]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down, Regine. I'm not looking for a wife.

[Khadijah]

Yeah, but don't you need a mother for Camille?

[Eric Alexander]

What Camille needs is a good parent. And for the record, there's a very nice female judge in family court. Seems to think that I can raise Camille just fine by myself.

[Khadijah]

So then this is it, huh?

[Eric Alexander]

You really like to jump to conclusions, don't you?

[Khadijah]

Well, yeah, I guess I do.

[Eric Alexander]

Regine, don't you know that Camille is crazy about you?

[Khadijah]

I'm crazy about Camille, too.

[Eric Alexander]

So then maybe the three of us can continue to see each other.

[Khadijah]

Saturday, Prospect Park.

[Eric Alexander]

We'll have a picnic.

[Khadijah]

I'll bring a cake. You bring the pink stuff.

[Eric Alexander]

You know, listen, let me see. Dominic Hoffman, he's got some of the best nostrils in the business.

[Kim Coles]

He does have a nice, strong nose.

[Eric Alexander]

Absolutely. I love his strong nose. I've always loved noses. And Dominic has a great nose. So of course, she's driving that home.

[Kim Coles]

She's got good taste.

[Eric Alexander]

She's got good taste.

[Kim Coles]

So does he.

[Eric Alexander]

Again, that great cast, by the way, that conversation. Being honest with someone who you dig and telling them that maybe that's not for you, or maybe disappointing them in a very serious segment of their life or category, that takes courage. And Regean did always tell people what she did or did not want. And nowadays I get the feeling that a lot of people hide that and then they get caught up and they haven't had those discussions and they're in too deep or suddenly becomes a point of resistance, and they haven't really considered what it would be.

[Kim Coles]

But that's also a really good character point because we see her. If you look at first blush, you'll see someone who's, you know, superficial and, you know, maybe gold diggery or, you know, I want a husband, I want a husband. But that was a point of integrity and character. So, just so you know, I'm really not ready for all this, and I'm not sure this is gonna work out right. And that honesty was important.

[Eric Alexander]

To wit, I mean, she was in green pajamas, but you know what? That's how she sleeps. You just said it.

[Kim Coles]

Maybe so. Maybe so.

[Eric Alexander]

I mean, you were in, like, pajamas of like. Oh, like Legoland or something. Can I say that?

[Kim Coles]

They were fun and colorful and, of course.

[Eric Alexander]

Did they have the seas? Did they?

[Kim Coles]

Probably did. They probably did. Good God, the child's life.

[Eric Alexander]

I bet you Max sleeps In the nude. I sleep in the nude. I sleep in the nude.

[Kim Coles]

Tube.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah. I gotta let it out.

[Kim Coles]

I gotta let it all breathe.

[Eric Alexander]

I gotta let. Come on. All day they have you strapped in.

[Kim Coles]

For years, I've been sleeping in the nude. It's wonderful.

[Eric Alexander]

And if you have a fan and it glows, you understand there's a whole sort of restoration and reparation that happens at night.

[Kim Coles]

Freedom.

[Eric Alexander]

Thank you, Lord.

[Kim Coles]

But here's the other piece of the. The genius of that. Not only is it freedom and lets the air circulate. When you get up in the morning, the first thing you see in the mirror is you. Your naked body. And it's a way of loving on yourself. Like, this is what I look like. Good morning. Let me go pee or take my shower or whatever.

[Eric Alexander]

It's really beautiful.

[Gary L. Gray]

Then there's that.

[Eric Alexander]

Do you know my morning gorgeous.

[Kim Coles]

My mother to this day thanks me for turning her on. Every once in a while, she'll go, kim, I'm so glad you told me to sleep in the nude. She's 94 and sleep in the nude. I think about in her 70s. I was like, ma, you need to sleep. Kim, I feel so free.

[Eric Alexander]

You are free.

[Kim Coles]

Freedom.

[Eric Alexander]

Yes, there might be a time where I might need a diaper or two, but right now, I'm asleep in a nude. And you know what? I actually gifted that to my nieces. One of my nieces says that she said she heard that and then she started sleeping in the nude.

[Kim Coles]

Freedom.

[Eric Alexander]

You know what, America? Let it loose.

[Kim Coles]

Let it loose.

[Eric Alexander]

Let it loose.

[Kim Coles]

Let it free.

[Eric Alexander]

Sleep from the nude. You're welcome.

[Kim Coles]

Yes.

[Eric Alexander]

We help America every day, don't we? My God. This is a public service.

[Khadijah]

When the time is right, honey, I'm having me a whole bunch of babies. My jeans are too good to waste.

[Eric Alexander]

How do you know when the time is right? Get yourself together. First, I'm gonna build up flavor by radio stations, television networks. I'm gonna have a whole communications empire.

[Kim Coles]

That will run itself, Giving me the.

[Eric Alexander]

Time to raise a family. Think I'll be about 29. Well, I know I want children, but I probably won't be ready until my feet are in the stirrups and the doctor is saying I can see the head. Push.

[Khadijah]

Max, as into your career as you are, you will probably never have children.

[Eric Alexander]

Yes, well, you underestimate me, my little friend, because whatever I do, I do well. And if my career and my child conflict, I will quit. You'd give up law? No, I'd give the kid to Khadijah.

[Kim Coles]

I love this scene because we all get to explore what it would be like to be a mom and what it would be like for us and to decide. And I love that Khadijah has this grand vision of all these. This empire she's gonna build, and she's gonna do it before she's 29.

[Eric Alexander]

Come on.

[Kim Coles]

I love it.

[Eric Alexander]

And that's real.

[Kim Coles]

The Dr. And ambition.

[Eric Alexander]

Ambition, yeah. And they're all talking about what they would do if or if they would have kids. Right, right. Which is, you know, I guess it's a conversation that you should have.

[Kim Coles]

You should have, and this is the time to be having it and can I have it all at the same time? And I love that you would have a child. And if you couldn't handle it, you just give it to Khadijah. One of the things I love about this highlights for me, my parents decided to wait. They had finished their schooling, and they decided to wait seven years. And so consequently, my parents were 34 when I was born, which at that time was considered old. You know, like now nowadays, it's no big deal, but back then, all of my mother's friends had had their babies already. They waited till they were 34 years old.

[Eric Alexander]

Wow. So how many kids do you think each character would actually have in their lives? Like, if they had kids, what would Sinclair have?

[Kim Coles]

How many Sinclair would have? Well, we had established later on in the show that Sinclair and Overton would have. And their names would be Sincloverton and Overclair. But I thought I would think four children. I think she and Overton would have at least four kids.

[Eric Alexander]

Okay. It seems right. Although, you know, y' all look like you were so hard up by the time you did get together. You would just have a thousand. Yeah. Because you would just be, you know.

[Kim Coles]

Let'S go, let's go. What do you think about for your character?

[Eric Alexander]

I think Max plans everything and is pretty organized, and she doesn't like surprises. So I think if she had one, that's good.

[Kim Coles]

But what happens at the end of the series is that she gets the surprise. No, but she goes to get. She goes to. We'll get there. Okay. We'll get there. We'll get there.

[Eric Alexander]

I think Khadijah would always be having them more than she thinks. When or why? Why? Because I think she would forget when she was ovulating and not be. And so be so lost that suddenly she'd be pregnant again and go, how did this happen? Well, because she wasn't watching motorcycles, man.

[Kim Coles]

Okay. Okay.

[Eric Alexander]

And she got caught up. Oh, thanks. For your seventh kid. What's going on?

[Kim Coles]

Okay. But by that time, she's a media mogul and she's got access to nannies.

[Eric Alexander]

There's nannies.

[Kim Coles]

There's a whole contingent.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah, she's got it all scheduled. And yeah.

[Kim Coles]

What about Regine? Once she finally figures it out, part.

[Eric Alexander]

Of me wants to put like a narrative on her that perhaps she'd be one that maybe wanted it but didn't have it. Oh, because we don't talk about. You don't always get what you. You plan for. But, you know, maybe she has some difficulty. It might be interesting to see her adopt.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, nice.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah. Sort of pivot. That would be great.

[Kim Coles]

And what about Kyle?

[Eric Alexander]

Kyle by himself would have a spreadsheet. Know how much each would cost, how much their university would be, all those things. He definitely would not want to be surprised, right? Yes. Okay, three sounds right. Because you have two. Like you want a pair and a spare. You know what I mean?

[Kim Coles]

I like it. This is a riveting conversation.

[Eric Alexander]

Riveting.

[Kim Coles]

All this is so riveting that it's time for the reverb. We see you getting after your fitness.

[Gary L. Gray]

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[Kim Coles]

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[Gary L. Gray]

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[Eric Alexander]

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[Gary L. Gray]

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[Kim Coles]

Intuit. Credit Karma. Karma you can count on.

[Gary L. Gray]

Download the app today. This episode is brought to you by.

[Eric Alexander]

Blink, an Amazon company.

[Gary L. Gray]

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[Gary L. Gray]

Going on vacation. We're here for it. With kids who turn a back seat into a courtroom drama over whose tablet is louder, whose charger is faster, and why. Watching the same cartoon for the hundredth time as a human race.

[Eric Alexander]

Right?

[Gary L. Gray]

Yep. We totally have vehicles to handle that. Because whether it's a road trip or a business trip where your flight's delayed, Your phone's at 2% and your dinner, whatever's open. Yeah, here for that too. Enterprise. We're here for it.

[Kim Coles]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

[Gary L. Gray]

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[Kim Coles]

Affiliates Price and coverage match Limited by.

[Gary L. Gray]

State law not available in all states.

[Kim Coles]

This is the reverb our time to reflect on the episode's themes and how they still echo throughout the culture. Questions do you think that you have to change yourself to become a mother?

[Eric Alexander]

You better change. I mean, whatever you were doing before, it changes you, it changes you. So yes, a woman, a mother, has to change because we have to change then. And so you think about the financial, you think about the career, you think about housing, you think about whether you're educated enough, do you have enough degrees? You start thinking about it in a way that I think grounds you very quickly to reality. And being pragmatic, I'm gonna say too.

[Kim Coles]

There was a moment early on that I was like, I didn't think that I had everything. Somewhere in my brain I thought, I have to have everything in place before I even think about having a child. And maybe it's because my parents had or thought they had everything in place. There's a piece of me that was like, I'm not sure I thought that I would ever be ready because I wanted to be able to deposit into a kid everything they would need in order to become a successful, happy, well rounded adult. And I was like, childhood, even though my childhood was actually pretty lovely, it was a lot. I was like, do I have everything I need to have in place to deposit into this kid? And I think parents would admit that the kid comes and then you figure it out.

[Eric Alexander]

Well, you know, that goes to mindset and also, you know, whether you're mentally prepared. Right. I think it'd be great to look into therapy.

[Kim Coles]

Right? Right.

[Eric Alexander]

So once a baby comes, boom, we have the parenting. And there we. Let's ask ourselves, is it cultural and generational and both what I think a.

[Kim Coles]

Lot plays into how you parent, how you become a parent. Like you are influenced by your parents. You know, when my father was born, his mother died when he was like maybe three months old. So he didn't have his mom. He had a very strict, very intense father. And he told me later on that I knew that when I have my kids, I would talk to them, I would have a different experience with them. He had decided when he was a young man, I'm not gonna beat them now. Of course, I ended up getting a couple of spankings. I had to remind him, like, I thought you said you weren't gonna spank your kids.

[Eric Alexander]

Well, it's certainly cultural. And it's certainly because depending on what generation you are. So I'm ex. I'm Boomer. How are you boomer?

[Kim Coles]

Cause I'm 62. I'm a young boomer.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah, just a boom.

[Kim Coles]

I'm at the very end of Boomer.

[Eric Alexander]

Okay.

[Kim Coles]

I identify as Boomer X.

[Eric Alexander]

Boom. Hey, it's America. So if you think about it, the belt versus the timeout is a cultural thing, and it is generational. Because there's a lot of people would say, well, a lot of children were raised with a belt and beating. But. But for African Americans, of course, we were talking about how difficult it was to separate the fact that if you did not parent your child a certain way and they misbehaved out in public, that could end their life, that could put trouble on the community. You had to.

[Kim Coles]

So here's that thought of spare the rod and spoil the child.

[Eric Alexander]

The child. The belt was real. And that's how we were raised, with the belt, the threat of the belt. And so my mother, I think, who's an educated woman, spoke to us and wanted us to be able to speak, but she was also an orphan. And both my father was an orphan too. So they didn't necessarily have the best parenting around them. And even though she was raised by a woman who adopted her, she was abusive. And my mother was raised in a very horrible, hostile environment. And I don't need to say that she didn't do that to us. Cause she didn't. But the fact that she didn't was who she was. But often our parenting style comes from how we were raised and what happened to us. Right.

[Kim Coles]

Early years, got a few, you know, whoopings with a belt from my dad, and eventually my mother stopped him. And although she had come from a Southern household where you would get the switch, but they then turned into the kind of parents that would talk and talk and talk and talk and talk. And I was like, can I get that switch or that belt? One of the stories I love to tell is that my mother established what would now be called. What is it? Soft parenting or what's the term that we use?

[Eric Alexander]

Yes, God, gentle parenting, which is where.

[Kim Coles]

You don't spank, you don't yell, you talk to the children. And I think my parents established. So my mother established that with me. And here was the thing. She established this trust. Like, if you come home and tell me that something happened before I find out about it from your teachers or find out about it in the street or like, I was really out in the street. But let me know first. Come and tell me first. I will not punish you. And I remember the first time I didn't tell her something and she found out I got in trouble. And I remember the first time I came home and said, mommy, I have something to tell you. Thank you for coming. Telling me no punishment whatsoever. And so established this beautiful trust that I could come and tell her anything. Which she now says, you tell me too much. But I told her everything, so at least she would know first.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

Why don't we talk about the influence that TV and media has had on parenting? There's a lot of TV parents, right?

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

A lot of examples. We've got Leave it to Beaver and the Brady Bunch and Little House on the Prairie and of course, the Cosby shows.

[Eric Alexander]

Well, you know, because people think they've created gentle parenting. But actually, if you think about the.

[Kim Coles]

All those shows I just mentioned, they were. Listen, we certainly couldn't be whooping them on tv.

[Eric Alexander]

I wanted to have Laura Ingalls, dad.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah.

[Eric Alexander]

Oh, Paul.

[Kim Coles]

I wanted Paul for Michael Landon. Right.

[Eric Alexander]

Michael Landon was sexy as hell.

[Kim Coles]

All that hair. All that hair.

[Eric Alexander]

Oh, Lord. Praise the Lord. Yeah. And then you had the difference between Sanford and Son in good times and the Jeffersons. And they were the ones who were not the gentle parenting. You were going to get it from them. I mean, that's also a patriarchy.

[Kim Coles]

Indeed.

[Eric Alexander]

Versus the matriarchy that had created in communities of color by the fathers of being targeted and taken from the home.

[Kim Coles]

Indeed.

[Eric Alexander]

Or not even being allowed to be with their families. It wasn't because black people are not strong family people. It's just that, again, that whole racism.

[Kim Coles]

Is why Esther Roll says that she fought to have a strong black man in the household. She said that before James Evans, you had not seen a black man in the household. And he was strong and he was powerful and. And he was. He had. He was a tough parent, too. He had a strong hand on JJ and his shenanigans and, you know, protected their little girl, Bernadette Stannis. That's not her name. Right.

[Eric Alexander]

There was I love me some Thelma.

[Kim Coles]

Love some Thelma.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah. And Michael.

[Kim Coles]

Right. So there was a strong hand he.

[Eric Alexander]

Pulled off that belt. And you saw, by the way, can we say something about the great John Amos and those corduroys. Listen, the corduroys. Oh, my gosh.

[Kim Coles]

I saw him one time on a talk show.

[Eric Alexander]

We were on a talk show together.

[Kim Coles]

I said he could get it. He was shocked.

[Eric Alexander]

He would have got it.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, he would have Got it.

[Eric Alexander]

He would have got it.

[Kim Coles]

And Kunta Kinte.

[Eric Alexander]

Come on.

[Kim Coles]

Kunta Kinte with his beautiful. You talk about a beautiful nose. That was a nose. Come on.

[Eric Alexander]

That came straight from the king.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eric Alexander]

Of the motherland. Yeah, it was fabulous.

[Kim Coles]

We just lost him a little while ago, right?

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah. Western power, brother. Indeed.

[Kim Coles]

Indeed.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah. But he's one of my favorite TV fathers. I mean, we've been talking about, you know, the real world versus. Versus real R E E L world of parenting, you know, but, you know, I think it was really deep. We actually got somebody who has done both and knows the score. Somebody's been on the front line of.

[Kim Coles]

Having a TV parent.

[Eric Alexander]

Yes. And being a TV child.

[Kim Coles]

That's right.

[Eric Alexander]

All right.

[Kim Coles]

Welcome to the stage Gary Laroy.

[Eric Alexander]

Laroi Gray, the actor who actually played Kevon on Today. Hello. Oh, my goodness. How you doing, young man?

[Kim Coles]

We haven't seen you since you played Kevon.

[Eric Alexander]

Look at them ears, though, right?

[Gary L. Gray]

They still the same S. Come on there.

[Eric Alexander]

And it's still the same side. And let's see the hat. Flip that to it.

[Kim Coles]

Wait now. Whoa.

[Gary L. Gray]

Whoa. You might notice that.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Gary L. Gray]

You might notice the design just a bit.

[Eric Alexander]

Just a bit. You came with the cross colors. He came.

[Kim Coles]

You already know.

[Gary L. Gray]

Cross colors is my people. You know, it reminds me of the time when I did the show.

[Kim Coles]

Do you remember what it was like to work with us? Do you remember that?

[Gary L. Gray]

Of course you do. Of course. You know what's weird is you ask anybody. I tell them I remember the time that I did Cosby Show, Living single Fresh Prince. And then after that, I don't remember anything like, around, like 8 to, like, like maybe 14, a blur. But with you guys, interesting. I think it's because of how influential it was to the rest of my career.

[Eric Alexander]

But, you know, wow. So listen, let's say everybody, what you worked on, which is shows like Family Matters, Fresh Prince, Fairly Odd Parents, and also Sandra and Elvin's son Nelson on the Cosby Show.

[Gary L. Gray]

Dating me. You are dating me. You're aging me.

[Eric Alexander]

We're just also trying to show how that show birthed you. So you are in our hearts in a very special way. You know what I mean?

[Gary L. Gray]

Appreciate it.

[Eric Alexander]

When they had children, it was like America had children, right? You know, and you looking as beautiful and you so fantastic. What we were talking about this whole time is how pro these young actors are that you have the mental stamina, you can be pressure tested, but also that you can have the concentration and be able to do it over time. That's really hard.

[Gary L. Gray]

Thank you.

[Kim Coles]

Did you have training?

[Gary L. Gray]

No, I was just into everything as a little kid and told my mom, I said. I pointed to the television, I said, I want to do that. And I got put into.

[Eric Alexander]

Listen to your children.

[Gary L. Gray]

Right, right.

[Eric Alexander]

Curious children. But your mother respected you.

[Gary L. Gray]

Yeah. I got instantly put into a charm school in Chicago, where I'm from. And she said, well, you're gonna see.

[Eric Alexander]

Amber shout out to Chicago.

[Kim Coles]

Tct.

[Gary L. Gray]

Exactly. But once I did that, it was just, you know, got the ball rolling. I did a fashion show in New York for, I believe Tommy Hilfiger and Carsey Warner were the producers of the fashion show, and Carsey Warner, the producers.

[Eric Alexander]

Of the Cosby Show.

[Gary L. Gray]

Of the Cosby Show. And they said, the twins are gonna grow up. And they said, we are looking next season to have them be toddlers. And my mom did not believe them. We flew back home.

[Eric Alexander]

She was like, you're right. Whatever.

[Gary L. Gray]

Got it. Cool. Thanks. Nice story. And we got a call from producers and Bill himself, and they said, no, we're serious, and we're flying you back out here and to read with everybody. And the rest, as they say, is history.

[Kim Coles]

And he spotted that talent in you and spotted that, like, little spark, a little something.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah.

[Gary L. Gray]

I used to do a segment when I did fashion shows where I would usually do a rapper of some sort. I think the song was. It was maybe an ODB song or Mariah Carey. And I would walk. Yeah, I would walk down to it because it was just about the attitude. And I would have the jacket, and I would have the glasses on. When you see videos of it, I'm like, yeah, I get it. I see why I was cute. But, yeah, that was my thing. So I would show up and show out.

[Kim Coles]

Did it feel comfortable to you? Once you now were getting work and being on set, did all that feel like this feels like home?

[Gary L. Gray]

Definitely, instantly. I think when I did the Cosby show, it was instantly something I knew I was meant to do. I was three and a half. My first. My first year.

[Eric Alexander]

He's a baby.

[Gary L. Gray]

I was a baby, baby. But I was talking about, you can remember everything. Yeah. When I hit, like, four or five, like, last year of the show, my mom was like, well, this is ending. We can go back to Chicago or you can continue this. And I was like, no, I'm gonna keep going.

[Kim Coles]

I love that.

[Eric Alexander]

She was.

[Gary L. Gray]

Then we moved out to Californ, and we did three months, you know, in Cali, three months back home. And the three months that I was out here, for the first time, I booked Fresh Prince, and then you guys. Yeah, I did Cosby Show, Living Single, Fresh Prince, and Family Matters, all before I turned six. That was sort of all my kids.

[Eric Alexander]

He's a marquee kid. He's a marquee kid. I gotta talk to you. Because a lot of people, they're very curious about whether their kids, you know, capable of doing. They have the capacity for it, but what goes into it. Because there's memorization, there's also direction you have to be able to take. Direction, yes. About maybe how your parents work with you or what you had to do specifically.

[Gary L. Gray]

Yeah, I think the professionalism is key. So much going on, you know, and so many things to get possibly wrong. So you want to make sure that your child is not the person that is the speed bump or the hindrance.

[Eric Alexander]

You know, on a set, how do you know the person has the demeanor? Because anything can upset a child.

[Gary L. Gray]

Of course. Of course. And it's all about listening. My family, my tribe was listening to me and being like, what do you need? Oh, you like to do this? Oh, great. Okay. So for a character like this might not be a good idea. There were things that I turned down at 4 and 5, you know, because we just knew that it wasn't gonna be something that would send me on a trajectory that I wouldn't like. I was supposed to be in. Is it Menace to society, Little boy on the tricycle has a gun at the end. That was supposed to be me, but we turned it down.

[Kim Coles]

So you and your parents decided, like, no, that doesn't feel comfortable. It doesn't fit.

[Gary L. Gray]

It's not.

[Eric Alexander]

But did you decide or did. Did they decide?

[Gary L. Gray]

Both of us sat me down, talked me, said, hey, you know, we don't play with guns in our household.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, my gosh.

[Gary L. Gray]

So, you know, this is going to be something that you're going to be doing on set. Would you, you know, would you be comfortable doing that? That was the main, you know, word used. Would you be comfortable?

[Eric Alexander]

Would you like to say.

[Gary L. Gray]

And I said, no, Mommy doesn't want me to do it. You know, Mommy. Mommy says that that's not good for me. So I don't want to do. I don't want to tell everybody that I do this, because in my eyes, I was becoming that character, especially as a, you know, a little kid. It's very black and white. The tribe has to be the gate. You know, you can see outside. You can see those things. But can you go outside? Can you. I'm gonna keep You. I'm gonna shield you from those things. They're out there. You can. They're in full view. I'm gonna tell you about how they are. I'm gonna tell you what happens when you step outside that gate, but I'm not gonna let you step outside that gate until I feel like you're ready and truly ready. And that's what happened with me.

[Kim Coles]

So I'm hearing that we. What's. The success of a child actor requires complete partnership with the parents.

[Eric Alexander]

Because you're working, it's your face out there, but also it's your mental health. There are things that you may not be able to verbalize or even if they're looking for shifts.

[Gary L. Gray]

I mean, school, you know, you think about what child actors go through with schooling on set. You know, three hours, you know, don't know your teacher, no relationship. Maybe have people in the classroom that you don't know, extras, other co stars. That's a lot. You know, it is a lot. It's a lot of uprooting, you know, And I did that every, what, three months almost. I was on a set, and I had a different set teacher. And then I was going back to regular school. That was another thing that my tribe made sure that I did. I assimilated into normal, everyday child life. I went to a regular school, you know, when I could, as much as I could. I was part of these clubs and these extracurricular activities that all kids should experience.

[Eric Alexander]

When I was 14, I did the back and forth, but I found that when I went back, there was some jealousy.

[Kim Coles]

I was about to.

[Eric Alexander]

Can you speak to that? Cause that's real.

[Gary L. Gray]

I think it definitely is a little bit easier for men or boys. I think women or girls. Coming back to that situation is terrible. You have one side that's like the cool side that's like, oh, yeah, you big dog, you Hollywood. Oh, you know, da, da, da. Whereas a lot of times, from what I've seen, you know, I had best friends that, you know, were in school with me as well. Raven Kelly, who was also on the show, did you know her at that time? Yes, I knew her before.

[Eric Alexander]

Before. Cause y' all auditioning.

[Gary L. Gray]

Yes. So you just face so much coming back as a woman, you know that, oh, you think you're cuter now, you got money. It's a different conversation.

[Kim Coles]

So I love that you have that perspective. And enough. Feels like you even have enough. What's the word I'm looking for? Of care about seeing that there was a difference.

[Gary L. Gray]

It makes my life easier. I always. I mean, like, seriously. No, I mean, I say that, you know, today on set, you know, when I do a job, my whole purpose is to make everybody's job easier. Because if your job feels easy, mine does.

[Eric Alexander]

What about being a people pleaser? Because you learned how to take direction, but you also are sort of looking for, like, is that the result they want? And then as growing into an adult actor, but also finding your own space to sort of push against it and say, I have authority here too. And agency. How does that work?

[Gary L. Gray]

That took me a while, personally. I think my parents, again, my tribe, made sure that I had enough, you know, wherewithal, enough base to say, hey, these are your values. This is your core. Okay? You know, you're getting older now. We gonna send you out into the world. I think I hit that wall that you're Talking about around 18, where I was like, yo, like, I gotta. You know this. There is something about my approach. There is something about my gigs, my everyday life that I have to keep a handle on that I have to make sure is a okay before I even go out to try to be someone. Because that's what we're doing as actors. We are taking on a whole nother Persona, other people's Personas especially. So when it comes to that, I had to make sure. Hey, make sure the mental. All of this stuff is okay before I go out and to do all of that. But I didn't hit that until I was about 18 and I said, man, do I want to do these type of roles for the rest of my life? I think that was it. And I made a point to not go on certain auditions and to accept only others and to sort of see myself as an adult in this.

[Eric Alexander]

And what type of roles were you getting? Were you trying to avoid.

[Gary L. Gray]

Ooh, man. Because when you were growing up, black friend, nerd, Okay. I was too light at the time to be seen as the normal, quintessential black boy or black thug. Or.

[Eric Alexander]

We spoke about that.

[Kim Coles]

Here we have.

[Gary L. Gray]

So I was, you know, going out on auditions in my early stages was very much, oh, you're only relegated to the black friend, you know, or the black nerd or the nerd, you know, whatever. And that was it.

[Eric Alexander]

Let's speak about. Cause that's colorism. They're looking at your color. And because you're color, they're saying that.

[Gary L. Gray]

You wouldn't be in the hood.

[Eric Alexander]

No.

[Gary L. Gray]

Wow, you're so well spoken. I mean, I got that on set.

[Eric Alexander]

You know, it's kind of really messed Up a little bit. Well, it's frustrating because you said you hit 18 and you decided, I can't keep playing that role. So then what happened and how did you break out and what did you do and how do you make the transition? And are there years that are fallow where you're not playing as much because they don't necessarily see you in a certain way?

[Gary L. Gray]

You know, luckily I got into voiceover Around 10.

[Eric Alexander]

Okay, smart. So you did a sort of side.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, you did.

[Gary L. Gray]

Like, I was able to sidestep and still kind of feel like I was still present and still creative. And still creative, but also not doing the things that I felt were stifling, which was a lot of the on camera roles coming to me. So at that time, I was doing fairly oddparents, so I was fully putting my creativity into that. And my everything on camera stuff was just lacking. I was just getting the same stuff. And I got an audition across my desk for a movie called Noah's Ark, Jumping the Broom by a wonderful director, Patrick Ian Polk. And it was an LGBTQ project. So I was the first in cast member for the film. And that role was just a life changer for me.

[Eric Alexander]

Okay.

[Gary L. Gray]

Wow. Coming into. Right, I'm gonna be short. I'm gonna be short. Coming into it.

[Eric Alexander]

Right, Right.

[Gary L. Gray]

Coming into it at 18. I was also in college. I had been in college for two years at that point. Cause I graduated early and I was just lgbtq. Ooh, you know, that's gay. You know, and man, I got to that set and just was completely change the stories, the people, the things that were shared to me from cast members and crew members alike, and completely changed my perspective, not only on life, but on acting. You know, what does it mean for an actor to really take on a role that stretches them, that pushes them, but also doing something that means you have to have reverence for said thing, you know? Yeah, it's outside of your wheelhouse, but that doesn't mean you can just kind of do. There is a culture to this that you have to adhere to.

[Eric Alexander]

To me, when I was performing when I was younger, there was something I could do when I was good at it. And then there were times where I'd go, oh, this is acting.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, no.

[Eric Alexander]

And now I get it. And I could feel the difference. And it wasn't. Again, you can play the piano. You're born being able to play the piano, but now you're playing the notes and you're hearing the melodies and you're. You know what I mean?

[Gary L. Gray]

Now you're riffing with people.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah. And suddenly you're like, I'm a musician.

[Kim Coles]

Mastery.

[Eric Alexander]

At that point, I could play, but now I'm a musician. And now we're having a conversation.

[Gary L. Gray]

And maybe that was definitely, definitely part of that. Yeah. I think it was really me never thinking to tackle that kind of role and being immersed in it. And I was. We were filming on location in Nova Scotia, so also in a foreign place. And I'm just like, whoa, this is just completely new experience. And I think that that was just a shedding of everything that I felt like was, I'm an actor, you know? And it's like, no.

[Eric Alexander]

Well. And that's one of the best things about being an actor is you go into places, you get to travel, you get to meet new people. You're very well socialized.

[Gary L. Gray]

Learn about yourself.

[Eric Alexander]

Learn about yourself.

[Gary L. Gray]

I never. I was never here, so I don't know this part about me. I've never been in front of these people, so I don't know that part about me. You know, I've never said these words. I don't know that about when I read the script, and I'm like, whoa. Like, you know, my character came out in the film. So having that situation of a character talking to their parents and saying, this is me, you know? Like what? Like, I've never had a character. Look, my characters laugh and get stuffed in lockers and even Stevens, you know what I mean?

[Eric Alexander]

And this was coming out the closet, Right.

[Kim Coles]

You know, you had the bravery to, as a young man. Right. To go, like, I don't want to do those roles or that roles or those roles. And then you were open to an opportunity to take on something that would be so far beyond playing the thug or so Yamala.

[Eric Alexander]

He's discovering.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. The geek. Like, this is something. A brand new world and that. Good for you.

[Gary L. Gray]

I dislike the adage or the whole notion that child actors or child acting is just completely negative. I can't stand it.

[Eric Alexander]

I can't stand it.

[Gary L. Gray]

I can't stand it. There are so many people who you do not know were child actors because they are successful.

[Eric Alexander]

Right.

[Gary L. Gray]

You know, you don't hear those stories.

[Eric Alexander]

You don't.

[Gary L. Gray]

You only hear the bad things.

[Eric Alexander]

The other ones sucked the oxygen out of the room. But the truth is, I said I've met some of the most wonderful people who are child actors who go on to be directors.

[Gary L. Gray]

And also Jennifer Love Hewitt, Kiki Palmer.

[Kim Coles]

I mean.

[Gary L. Gray]

I mean, we can just keep going.

[Eric Alexander]

Politicians, doctors. You have leadership skills that other people don't have. You have communication skills that other people don't have. So even if you don't want to continue in entertainment, there's so many things you can do. Oh, my gosh.

[Gary L. Gray]

And be great at.

[Kim Coles]

And the adaptability that you learn as a kid actor. Oh, unbelievable.

[Gary L. Gray]

Wait, hold on. I have to speak on that. Okay, Adaptability as a black actor growing up at that time, you had to do everything. You had to do everything. We had to sing, dance, act, all of that.

[Eric Alexander]

Come on.

[Gary L. Gray]

All of that. Because we had to get seen in some way. So you had to be ready for that job that might come along, that might need a tap dancer or that job that came along.

[Eric Alexander]

Multi hyphen.

[Gary L. Gray]

It. Exactly. So I was doing all of that. I was doing 10 hours of dance a week at 4 years old. That grew to 25 hours when I went to Debbie Allen's while being on the set of Even Stevens.

[Eric Alexander]

Amazing.

[Gary L. Gray]

Coming off the set of even Stevens at 4 o' clock, going to Dada at 4 to 9pm, getting up and doing it the next day.

[Eric Alexander]

Do you have any TV parents that you liked or TV parents that you would avoid now? TV parents, meaning not the actors, but.

[Gary L. Gray]

You wouldn't want to be around TV character parents. Let's see. AJ. AJ's parents I would want to emulate, of course, for fairly odd parents. He's a genius. He's got great wealth. He has a friend who has fairy godparents. What kid wouldn't want to be that guy? I think that that was something that we didn't see, especially in animation. A black boy who's smart and has both and is doing well in life. Like, that wasn't a thing that was animated, one that I would avoid. Everyone says, moesha's dad.

[Eric Alexander]

Moesha's dad.

[Gary L. Gray]

You know, I mean, the Franks period. Frank Gallagher as well on Shameless. Just if you name Frank and a dad on tv.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah, not a good thing. I think that going back to the myth of the child star being a problem, look to the parents, because it wasn't probably the business, it was the parents that sort of did this to the child. So I want to say that because so many people come to me and say, how can they get their child in the business? All of that. And I say, first thing I want to do is get you tested, because your child may have the capacity and the talent, but you may not be the person to do it. And how can you gauge as a parent whether they can do it? If you're messed up, you might bring a Messed up person into their life. So how are your parents in this showbiz industry?

[Gary L. Gray]

Yeah, that's a great question. I had so many that were included in my tribe. I can't just say my parents and I love them.

[Kim Coles]

To them, using the term tribe sounds.

[Eric Alexander]

Like, listen up, y' all. This is how you raise a show biz kid. Go on and drop the knowledge.

[Gary L. Gray]

Yes. My biological mom and dad were actually at home in Chicago. My godmother, who I call mom, raised me, you know. And that's the mom that you guys met. Tracee A. Vance. I just remember again, it being a partnership, it being a listening, you know, fest, you know, what do you want? What do you. You need, you know, oh, that's what you like to do. You know, they do X, Y and Z. What about that? Presenting options, letting the child understand what those options are. So vital because if you just kind of shoehorn everything, you know, you could be that parent. Just say, oh, well, you're gonna make this money, so you gotta do it, you know, which I see all the time. You're gonna get a kid who doesn't know what they're doing, 20 years old, 25 years old, and ends up, you know, blowing everything or getting into the wrong, you know, crowd, whatever, and don't know who they are, like I said. So, you know, I think that was really what it was, was just having people who understood that I was a kid who wanted to express myself and knew that I could do things to express myself. It was just about finding the right avenues and the right people and the right projects to do that for. You know, there's protecting you in a way that you could have. Exactly. There's a kid who might fare better doing roles that I didn't do, you know, and that's not. Every child is different. That's another thing. You can't cannot make a blueprint for every child. It is not like that your child is going to tell you how they are and who they are. You have to listen.

[Eric Alexander]

And what are you working on now?

[Gary L. Gray]

Wow, man. So much I was thankful to be brought back to fairly oddparents with a new wish, their new show. And it's fantastic. Please go watch it.

[Eric Alexander]

Please.

[Kim Coles]

Awesome.

[Eric Alexander]

Awesome. Definitely. Check it out.

[Gary L. Gray]

Check it out on Netflix. The first half of the season is on Netflix and the second half, I believe is coming in July.

[Kim Coles]

And if you to want.

[Gary L. Gray]

Yeah, I. I am working on my own stuff, you know, as a producer and a writer. Producer and writer. I have so many things that we are bringing to the Table. And mainly animated. Because I feel like that space especially needs respect and especially the. The feel that a lot of black actors have found their home there, you know? You know, tc.

[Kim Coles]

Tc.

[Gary L. Gray]

God of our own. Exactly.

[Eric Alexander]

Well, you be the God award. I'll be the Queen of Chaos. You can come to Queen of Chaos for y' all. Give something for lady girl here. Trust me, because I'm waiting. But you know what? I gotta say you're in great shape too. And I just want to say thank you. You know, 38, but I mean, don't say it because you. I'll choke you out here. I mean, you know, that's another thing. But I'm just saying you're a fresh eyed and wonderfully healthy in it, obviously, you know, grounded. And that right there is the story we need to tell about the journey of being entertainment in this industry and, and how it's sort of creating now a creator who can use all your skill sets to build for other people.

[Gary L. Gray]

Yes. And I wouldn't have.

[Eric Alexander]

I want them in your hands. Because when you say Keith's coming to get us, we'd say any day.

[Kim Coles]

Come get on.

[Gary L. Gray]

Come on. Look, don't say that. Come on, Gary, I've been working very hard and we have some things.

[Eric Alexander]

Give us a call.

[Gary L. Gray]

Trust me.

[Eric Alexander]

Listen, Queen of Chaos here.

[Kim Coles]

Interview. We got Josh.

[Eric Alexander]

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Gary, come on.

[Kim Coles]

Thank you so much.

[Eric Alexander]

Thank you so much.

[Gary L. Gray]

Thank you, guys.

[Eric Alexander]

Thank you.

[Kim Coles]

What a delicious surprise.

[Eric Alexander]

This is fantastic.

[Kim Coles]

Thank you.

[Eric Alexander]

Thank you. Thanks for the cross colors.

[Gary L. Gray]

Oh, yeah.

[Kim Coles]

And now it's time for True Blue.

[Eric Alexander]

All right, this one is from Hope Skies. And she says, where did the signature statements come from? Was it writing or improv? So she's talking about the woo, woo, woo, the smooches, even Khadijah calling herself Mother. Where did that come from?

[Kim Coles]

I've said many, many times, I can tell you that woo, woo, woo came from my mother. Woo, woo, woo is what she would say when words would fail her. If you fell down or hurt yourself, woo, woo, woo, Sweetie, it's gonna be all right. And it meant, I love you. I see you, I acknowledge you, I got you. And I ad libbed that one day on the set, like, woo, woo, Khadijah.

[Eric Alexander]

Woo, woo, woo.

[Kim Coles]

Overton and Yvette said, that's hysterical. What is that? I don't even know what that. But. And it stayed in the show. It showed up often and forever.

[Eric Alexander]

And I remember seeing Mother where Khadijah would say mother as written.

[Kim Coles]

I don't remember that.

[Eric Alexander]

So many of the statements in there are written. You know, it's a script. We can make them our own. But definitely, smooches was written.

[Kim Coles]

I think smooches was written.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

And then delivered beautifully.

[Eric Alexander]

And then there's another one that we found out that Overton said.

[Kim Coles]

First suki, suka, suki, suki, now suki. Yeah, so that was an ad lib.

[Eric Alexander]

Yeah. So, by the way, I just want to say also, you know, people always call out the thing, ride the Maverick.

[Kim Coles]

Yes.

[Eric Alexander]

And Ride the Maverick is definitely something that is a joint thing. I am the Maverick. I've called myself the Maverick because Eric Alexander is from Arizona, up in the mountains. And I was going around calling myself the Maverick. Then Yvette put it in the show as the campaign phrase for the alder, for the alder woman. Ride the Maverick. So people stream that out. But of course, Maxine Shaw, attorney at Law, is something that people say all the time, and that is Yvette Leigh Bowser. But for the most part, at least for me, many of the things that I've said or people attribute to me are written by the writers.

[Kim Coles]

And Yvette Kim Fields alluded to your way of taking the script and taking the lines and saying them the way that you want it to, rather than the way that we know that, the sitcom way. And so that when I say ride the Maverick, I mean it was written. When I say ride the. I mean it is how anybody else would have said it, because that's how it's written. And how did you deliver it? Can I do you. When I say Ride the Maverick, I mean it. That is not the way. Those were the words, but that's not the way they expected it to come out. And so I want to give you your props for taking it and turning it on its head.

[Eric Alexander]

And also ignore the punctuation. Ignore the punctuation.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah.

[Eric Alexander]

You're not on this earth to just be a puppet. And sometimes you can hear the words it's intended and agree with it. And then you start to explore, but what could it be? What makes me laugh? And there is nothing wrong with being selfish inside of your performance. I don't get to author the character. I don't get to author often the script, but I get to author how it's said or perform. And so that's where you see me colliding with the intentions of what the writer wants. And so you can say, yeah, Mary had a little lamb, her feast was Mary had a little lamb. And I can't help but look for those moments where the musicality of it. Yeah. Because it's sometimes much more fun. Plus, I'm a preacher's daughter. And if you go to church, Church of God in Christ, where I was raised and my mother was the musical director of Everything is about hello, you know, you know black people. If we learn your name the minute. Hi, Kim. Kim. Oh, Kimmy C. Wem. I mean, we immediately start to create the different space that you're gonna live in.

[Kim Coles]

Right.

[Eric Alexander]

You know what I mean? And I am.

[Kim Coles]

So can you say the line for us right now? When I say ride the maverick. Can I hear you say it?

[Eric Alexander]

When I say ride the maverick, I mean it. I don't know if that was it.

[Kim Coles]

That's it. Thank you all so much for watching this episode of Reliving Single. Yes, we want to thank Gary, Gary L. Gray for coming on our show and adding so much wisdom and insight.

[Eric Alexander]

It was good stuff, you know, you want to really help us follow at least, like. Yeah, follow and like, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. And send in your questions and comments to reliving single podcast. Heartbeat.com we want to hear from you.

[Eric Alexander]

Reliving Single is hosted by me, Eric Alexander, and me, Kim Kohl's Reliving Single is a production of Heartbeat in association with Color Farm Media, executive produced by.

[Kim Coles]

Kevin Hart, Jeff Clanigan and Eric Eddings. Leslie Guam, Erica Alexander and Ben Arnon.

[Eric Alexander]

The show is produced by Kim Coles.

[Kim Coles]

Amber Watson is our senior producer.

[Eric Alexander]

Our associate producer is Kenny Jackson.

[Kim Coles]

Our video editor is Nee Kirschman.

[Eric Alexander]

Our sound engineers are Eric Hicks and Cedric Wilson.

[Kim Coles]

Production supervision by Razak Boykin and Brett Calkins.

[Eric Alexander]

Additional production support from Alex Atkins and Z. Taylor.

[Kim Coles]

Special thanks to BK Augustine and Dr. E.J. johnson.