← Rena Malik, MD Podcast
Rena Malik, MD Podcast
Porn Director Reveals What Gets Faked in Almost Every Scene
01:40:07
In this episode, Dr. Rena Malik, MD welcomes Holly Randal to explore the truths and misconceptions surrounding the adult entertainment industry. They discuss the impact of pornography on relationships, society, and sexual education, while offering insights into the evolving dynamics of performers and platforms like OnlyFans. Listeners will gain a thoughtful, insider perspective on porn and its influence on sexual health conversations.
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- [00:00]
A
How many discounts does USAA auto insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi vehicle discount, Safe driver discount, New vehicle discount, Storage discount. How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit usaa.com autodiscounts restrictions apply. Porn in itself is really just a form of entertainment. And I don't think that obviously it is a bad thing. Otherwise I wouldn't have been working in it for 27 years. Sometimes, you know, we're shooting under brutal conditions, retired, it's late, it can be really hot, it can be really cold. It's not always pleasurable. They're learning it behind closed doors from what is essentially like, supposed to be provided only for entertainment. I mean, you don't learn to drive by watching the Fast and the Furious. You shouldn't learn how to have sex from watching, like backdoor sluts. 15.
- [00:46]
B
Let's talk a little bit about special effects.
- [00:48]
A
Yes, I am here to ruin your fantasies. You don't get to like do anything else with your life after you've been in porn. There was a very famous case of a nurse in Oregon who got like pushed out of her school because they discovered that she had done adult scenes. One of the big criticisms that I see all the time from, you know, the anti porn people is get a real job. Well, sometimes people try to leave the industry and get a quote unquote real job, but then they can't.
- [01:15]
B
Is porn inherently bad for you or simply a form of entertainment that like anything else, can just be misused? For decades, the adult entertainment industry has faced blame and negativity. But today we're going to talk all about it. I'm Dr. Reena Malik, urologist and pelvic surgeon. And welcome back to The Rena Malik, M.D. podcast, your source for leveling up your health, relationships and sex life with evidence based tools. Today we're cutting through misconceptions with an expert who has seen it all. I'm joined by Holly Randall, a prominent American photographer, director and producer of adult films. She also has a podcast with over 400 episodes talking to performers in the adult industry called Holly Randall Unfiltered. She's been in the industry for 27 years and she has seen it all. All. In this episode, she talks about how the industry has changed over the years, what special effects they use to make it look as appealing as it is, and what really happens behind the scenes. And if you guys want to learn how to have better sex, check out my better sex app where basically you have me in your pocket, an AI coach that's available 24. 7 daily. Little, small lessons, as well as actionable things you can do each and every day by yourself and with a partner to help improve your sex life. Check it out today@studio.com Rena again, that's studio.com Rena. R E N A Holly, thank you so much for joining us.
- [02:37]
A
Thank you so much for having me.
- [02:39]
B
I'm so excited to have this conversation because I think it's very uncommon for people to know the other side, right, of what goes on. There's a lot of blame around the adult entertainment industry. Like, it's a bad thing. It's not good for you. And I think it's important to see the other side of it.
- [02:53]
A
Right.
- [02:54]
B
So what are your views? I mean, you've been involved in the industry for decades. What do you feel like when people say porn is bad for you?
- [03:03]
A
What.
- [03:03]
B
What is your thoughts on that?
- [03:04]
A
I mean, ultimately, porn is simply a form of entertainment, right? It's a means to an end for a lot of people. And I don't think porn itself is inherently bad. Like any form of entertainment, like anything that, you know, releases any sort of dopamine sensation in human beings, it can be misused and it can be bad. Actors can come in and, you know, like, absolutely abuse the system and the people in it. But, you know, porn in itself is really just a form of entertainment. And I don't think that obviously it is a bad thing. Otherwise I wouldn't have been working in it for 27 years.
- [03:42]
B
When you mention bad actors, what have you seen in your time? What has been sort of the most dramatic sort of negativity that's come along that's really sort of heightened the negativity towards pornography.
- [03:55]
A
I think, in general, you get people who don't look at performers as people, and they look at them as, you know, money, right? And they don't care about the welfare of the performers or, you know, misogynistic kinds of directors who create content that is. Look, there's a difference between creating extreme, rough content. And I don't think that there's anything, you know, wrong with that. I know a lot of performers who really enjoy that kind of content. And then there's the kind of content where they are literally trying to break down the performer and create, like, an adverse reaction that basically is not enjoyed by anybody except for perhaps a very twisted viewer or the director. There are a few of those. And unfortunately, those are the kinds of people that I think tend to be highlighted and that are pointed at when one thinks about porn and they don't think about all of the other people in the industry that are the complete opposite.
- [04:55]
B
Do you feel like there is some ethical sort of need for the porn industry to take sort of steps in having, you know, kind of guidance and, and, and maybe even guidelines that directors have to follow?
- [05:11]
A
Yes, and that has actually been something that has been instituted in the last few years. There's been a massive shift in the porn industry ever since COVID And honestly, you know, the rise of personal content platforms like OnlyFans. I mean, it is not an understatement to say that OnlyFans completely changed the game adult industry. And I think in a, in a good way, performers now have more control over their careers than they ever had. They have. The power dynamic has shifted and so you are now seeing brands and companies respond in a way that is definitely more considerate of the performers. We have boundary checklists now, which we didn't have before. The adult industry has overall been self regulating in the last, I would say like two decades or even prior to that, since I've been in it. And it has, that has only, you know, become stronger as time has gone on. So I think there was definitely a time when, let me say this, if this is the best time to get into porn, you know what I mean? Like for, for creators, you have the most power. You have studios who are following specific guidelines and it's just a wholly better place to work than it used to be.
- [06:28]
B
I think it's important for people to hear what are some of the things that you hear about from viewers that are positive that people feel like porn has helped them in some way.
- [06:37]
A
I hear a lot of couples who talk about how porn has like improved their sex life, they enjoy watching it together. People that have learned things from porn, people that have allowed themselves to feel more accepting of their bodies. I think that porn has been actually a really great place, especially since the advent of the Internet, because now you have a kind of like open way in which an audience can choose what they want to see. Where we've embraced like body diversity and different kinks and, you know, different gender identities and things like that. So if like whatever you're into, whatever you look like, whatever you identify as, there's a place in the adult industry for you.
- [07:23]
B
And then what are some of the negative things that you wish would change or that you feel like are maybe things that are, you know, we should be transparent about the negatives.
- [07:31]
A
I mean, I think, you know, ultimately I've always said that the stigma around porn is more damaging than porn itself. The way society views people in it. The way that you don't get to like do anything else with your life after you've been in porn. You know, I know quite a few people who've come into the industry, they've done a few scenes, they've decided it's not for them and so they go and try to follow another career. There was a very famous case of a nurse in Oregon who got like pushed out of her school because they discovered that she had done adult scenes. And you know, it's unfair that once you're branded as somebody who's worked in the adult industry that like, somehow you're some sort of deviant and you can't possibly like be a productive member of society in any other way. You know, it's funny because one of the big criticisms that I see all the time from, you know, the anti porn people is get a real job. Well, sometimes people try to leave the industry and get a quote unquote real job, but then they can't.
- [08:29]
B
Right.
- [08:30]
A
So I've always found that that is for me, like, that is the way that people view people in the industry is, is really misleading and very, can be very damaging.
- [08:41]
B
I feel like now with OnlyFans, more and more people are on that platform as young adults and they may over their lifetime decide that's not enough. You know, that's what they want to do something else. Do you feel like they're going to face the same stigmas?
- [08:54]
A
Yes and no. OnlyFans actually isn't the best place to describe like somebody who can go on a platform and kind of create adult material without putting themselves out there. Because OnlyFans doesn't have an internal discovery system. You have to have a large social media following, which is putting yourself out there, obviously to bring fans in.
- [09:14]
B
Right.
- [09:14]
A
But on certain other sites with internal discovery systems like Fansly, if we're talking about camming, like strip chat, you can actually not have a social media following at all. And you can gather fans within that website, within that community, and therefore you can almost be a little bit less out there. But I always warn people that like once it's on the Internet, it's forever,
- [09:39]
B
even if it's behind a paywall. Because even in theory somebody could screenshot
- [09:43]
A
and people do it all the time. It doesn't matter. I mean, I have a, you know, a company that goes out and takes down like illegal content of me, but like it's still everywhere. I mean, you can still find it.
- [09:54]
B
Right.
- [09:55]
A
So you know, I would just caution that you be aware that whatever is out there will be out there forever and it may come back to haunt you.
- [10:03]
B
Yeah. So it may all. They may also experience those difficulties.
- [10:05]
A
Absolutely.
- [10:06]
B
Well, let's talk about the history of the porn industry. Like you. Like I mentioned, you've been involved in it forever. Let's talk about, you know, went from being something that was sort of difficult to access. You had to go to a video store or find a VCR and watch it, and. And now it's. Or find a magazine, and now it's very readily accessible. So let's talk about, like, what that, what's that meant for the porn industry and how those changes were perceived.
- [10:28]
A
Yeah. So porn actually started. You can trace its roots all the way back to the early part of the 1900s where you. New York Times Square is a big. Was a big center for that. If you've ever seen the Deuce, it kind of focuses on that era. So peep shows, grindhouse theaters, that was where, you know, you could go and you could, you could. And at that time, cameras were expensive. Most people were shooting on 35 millimeter. So it wasn't something that, like the average person could film. Right. Now that changed when 8 millimeter and 16 millimeter came into play. And now the phone was smaller and the cameras got smaller and therefore they got cheaper. And, you know, people were starting to have these kind of home movie cameras that they could film at home. Well, naturally, of course, that meant that more people could film adult material. And so that started to kind of explode the adult industry. And then, especially when Super 8 came into play and it was an easy load in with the cartridge, it expanded even more. So now you are actually able to bring porn into your home. If you have a projector, you can watch these loops. My mom used to shoot these loops back in the day.
- [11:42]
B
Yeah.
- [11:42]
A
And so you no longer need to go out to a CD theater where people might see you. You can, you can watch it at home. And this is when the porn industry really started to gain legs and really to get big and production companies really started to come up and, you know, money began to flow.
- [12:01]
B
Right.
- [12:02]
A
So. And then after that comes the battle between VHS and Betamax. And porn has always been the industry that kind of pushes technology forward just because of, like, the supply and demand of it. And so essential.
- [12:18]
B
That's so interesting. I didn't know that.
- [12:19]
A
Yeah, it's. It's. So you. You see that. I mean, porn essentially decided the battle between not only vhs, Betamax, but also Blu Ray and like dvd.
- [12:29]
B
Really? Yeah, I had no idea.
- [12:31]
A
And one of the first E commerce stores ever on the Internet was Stock Room, which is a BDSM website. And that was one of the first E commerce stores. So it's always been like at the forefront of like technology.
- [12:43]
B
It's so funny because it gets such a bad rap, but really it's like moving the world forward.
- [12:47]
A
Yes, exactly. Because everybody wants to watch porn. They don't care what you say. Like it's true, you know what I mean? Whether or not it's good or bad.
- [12:57]
B
So I know it's a, there's a lot of, a lot of shaming, but I guarantee everybody watching has watched it, right? Maybe there's a small percentage of people who don't, but it's mostly virtue signaling than anything else.
- [13:09]
A
Exactly. So now you've got VHS, you've got VCRs. And this is like when the porn industry really explodes. And of course this is also when we're starting to get more scrutiny from the government. Now the, the first like major landmark case in adult was the Miller case. And this was what actually defined obscenity laws. And it is what is still used. These parameters are what are still used to define obscenity cases today. And it was. Does it appeal to. There's three standards. It's called the Miller Test. Does it appeal to the prurient interest of the viewer? Does it offend local community guidelines in terms of like what is acceptable and what is not with sex? And then three, does it lack any major artistic or educational value? If it fails all of that, then it's considered obscene. Now of course the problem is, is that depending on the community that you're in, your community guidelines are going to be quite different. So obscenity laws can be applied differently in different states and it's pretty vague and it is difficult to enforce. This doesn't mean that the government doesn't try to enforce them. The next, what I would say like landmark case in the adult industry was called the Freeman case. And this was in 1988, I believe. So this is actually two years after the Mies commission, which I know you wanted to ask me about. And that was actually a case against Harold Freeman, who was just a small time director and producer and this was in California. And the lawmakers tried to come after him for pimping and pandering. And they said that creating porn was essentially pimping. Right. It's the same as prostitution. So this went all the way to the California Supreme Court, and it was overruled. So California and actually New Hampshire. New Hampshire's case was actually way before, I think that was like, in 1980 or something like that. Are the only two states where the production of porn is actually, like, legally protected by a previous case law.
- [15:22]
B
Interesting.
- [15:23]
A
In every other state, it's sort of like a gray area. And this, I think, is why. A major reason why so much of it is produced in California. Not to mention this is like, you know, Hollywood, the home movie making and stuff like that.
- [15:36]
B
And yeah, let's talk about the Mies case. So that was under Reagan, and that's when they called pornography harmful, right?
- [15:42]
A
Yeah. So Edwin Meese was the attorney general at the time, and the Reagan administration, obviously was more conservative, and they really wanted to, you know, stage this war on porn. And so Edwin Meese was commissioned to create this report that would, you know, study the effects of porn on society. And with no surprise, of course, after lots of research and interviewing very biased sources and having a very biased people on the panel, they decided that porn was harmful. And they said that it incited violence in people and it was bad for families. And now, of course, nobody really bought that because it really, you know, was obvious that it was a very biased report. And unfortunately, though, what happened was. So the Mies commission came out in July of 1986, and then at the end of that summer of the same year, the Tracy Lord scandal happened.
- [16:42]
B
Tell us about that.
- [16:43]
A
Really blew the lid off of everything. And the Tracy Lord scandal is obviously, like, something that is an important part of my life because I experienced that as a child. My parents, you know, my mom shot Tracy more than almost anybody. And so when it came out that she was underage, my parents thought they were going to jail. And they had to sit me down when I was 7 years old and tell me, because they thought the cops were gonna come and, like, drag them away in, like, the middle of the night.
- [17:13]
B
Oh, gosh.
- [17:14]
A
And I was the oldest, and I had a little brother who was four at the time. And they said, you know, if mommy and daddy go to jail, here's like, a phone number. And it was their lawyer. You need to call this person. Like, don't worry. Everything's gonna be fine. And of course, at the time, I didn't know what was happening. I knew. I sort of knew what my parents did for a living, but I didn't know. They couldn't explain to me what was happening.
- [17:41]
B
Yeah.
- [17:41]
A
So, you know, that's a. That's a conversation that'll. I'LL never forget.
- [17:45]
B
Yeah.
- [17:46]
A
But I would like to also point out the fact that now, Tracy looked very old for her age and acted very old for her age. I mean, everyone that you talked to who worked with her said that they had absolutely. You would never have guessed that she was underage. Now, what Tracy actually did was she went and she took a birth certificate from somebody who was of age. I think it might have been her cousin or her friend or something like that. And she used that certificate, birth certificate, so she didn't get, like, a fake ID like down in Olvera street or something like that. Like, she was using somebody else's birth certificate and positioning herself as somebody else. So what actually saved so many people from going to prison over that was my mom.
- [18:32]
B
Yeah.
- [18:33]
A
And this was like, kind of almost like an accidental, very fortunate event. So, like I said, my mom was very close to Tracy, and. And she always thought that Tracy, like, you know, could do so much more than porn. She thought that she could be a mainstream model. So my mom used to be a model back in England. So she took Tracy to London to go meet her old, like, fashion agent to see if she could get Tracy, like, mainstream work. Now, in order to travel to England, Tracy had to get a passport. Yeah, she got a passport with the fake birth certificate that she had been using.
- [19:10]
B
Okay.
- [19:10]
A
And so the government issued her a passport.
- [19:14]
B
Oh, wow.
- [19:15]
A
Based on that evidence. So then when it came out that she was underage and this all came to court, essentially, it was impossible for them to prosecute anybody, because if the United States government didn't realize that she wasn't who she said she was and she was underage, how could, like, the average porn director know?
- [19:33]
B
Right.
- [19:34]
A
So that was actually what, like, saved so many people.
- [19:37]
B
Wow, that's. That's so crazy.
- [19:40]
A
Yeah.
- [19:40]
B
So let's talk about growing up with your parents. So you said, obviously, you know, your mom was basically a pioneer in the industry. I mean, she was one of the first women directing in the porn industry for doing photography in the porn industry. And both your parents were somewhat involved. So. So tell me what it was like for you. When did your parents. When did you sort of figure it out? And when did they. How do they talk to you about it?
- [19:59]
A
You know, I don't remember, like, a moment. Like an aha moment where I realized what it was. My parents, where they were very open with me and they never lied to me. Now, of course, you're not just gonna, you know, say to your kid, like, I shoot porn. Right. Like, they don't Even know what that is.
- [20:17]
B
Yeah.
- [20:17]
A
And obviously it's inappropriate. So what I recall, I think, was just that, like, I knew that what my parents did was for grownups. And it's like what I tell my daughter right now. I said, you know, I make movie for grownups. You're not a grownup, so it's not, you know, for you. And when you're a kid, like, you don't actually care what your parents do for a living.
- [20:37]
B
Yeah.
- [20:37]
A
As long as they're able to, like, buy you Barbies and, like, get ice cream, like, who cares what they do? So I didn't start to really, like, become interested in what they did until, of course, like, I reached adolescence. And then they had. And their. The guest house on our property was their office. And so I used to steal the key and I used to go back there and I would get. I would, like, steal the magazines and look at the magazines. But, you know, it was never anything that I felt personally, like, ashamed about at all. What was tricky was telling other people what my parents did for a living. My friend's parents, my school. There was one time, fourth grade, fifth grade maybe, where one of the boys, like, snuck a Penthouse into the classroom. And we were, like, looking at it on the. In the yard, and I was like, oh, my mom shot that. Like, my mom's name was on it.
- [21:28]
B
Yeah.
- [21:28]
A
You know, and then, of course, like, nobody really understood. I think they thought my mom was the person in the. The pictorial. I don't know. And then the teacher found it and took it away and then called my mom to tell her what had happened. Let me also remind you, I did not bring this magazine, okay. It was not brought by me. And they called my mom to tell her what happened. And she, you know, made some joke, like, at least you have some. Finally some decent reading material or something, which is something that, like, my mom would totally say.
- [21:59]
B
Yeah.
- [22:00]
A
So, you know, sure.
- [22:02]
B
The teacher was not appreciative of that.
- [22:03]
A
No, not at all. I think they really tried to shock her and she was just like, meh.
- [22:07]
B
Yeah.
- [22:07]
A
You know.
- [22:08]
B
Yeah.
- [22:08]
A
I mean, you know, it's crazy because I think about what I looked at back then and also keep in mind this is before the Internet came along. So magazines were actually significantly more soft core than they are now. In fact, penetration wasn't even allowed in the magazines because of the distribution issues. You know, we talked about obscenity earlier and how obscenity varied from state to to state. So to be safe, they wanted to produce one magazine that was distributed to all places, Canada as well. And so there was never any penetration. So those pictorials consisted of a man and a woman, with the man, like standing near the woman with a kind of like half hard penis, just like holding it near her vagina. They couldn't even have it pointing directly at the vagina. It had to sort of be on like a 45 degree angle. So it didn't look like he was about to go in, it was just kind of there.
- [23:04]
B
Yeah.
- [23:05]
A
So like, the content that I was looking at at that age was kind of was, I mean, truly nothing compared to what kids see nowadays on the Internet.
- [23:13]
B
I know, that's so scary. Yeah, and we'll talk about that. And then you got involved helping your mom a little bit. When did that happen?
- [23:20]
A
So that happened when I was 20. I was going to Brooks Institute of Photography. I knew I wanted to be a photographer. I thought I was going to do fashion at the time. And then that my parents had just launched their website, Suzenet, and, you know, kind of instantly out of the gate. It did really, really well because my mom had such a large private collection of images that she owned that she was able to publish. And at the time, you know, bandwidth was too expensive and servers were too slow to really, like do video. It was mostly photos. So the website was doing really well. I was feeling sort of discontent at school and my dad asked me if I wanted to come back and help out with the family business. So I moved back from Santa Barbara to la. And at first I thought I would just, you know, help them out. I was going. I was transferring to UCLA at the time, and then I would go on and I was actually going to be an English teacher.
- [24:16]
B
Yeah.
- [24:18]
A
And, you know, I found that I really enjoyed it. Like, I liked the people and, and it was fun and. And the great thing about the Internet and the income that my parents were making at the time was that she didn't need to shoot for publications anymore, so she really could just make whatever she wanted.
- [24:36]
B
Yeah.
- [24:37]
A
And we had the means to hire stylists and set designers and, you know, great makeup artists. So we were able to create, like really cool artistic stuff that people just got naked in.
- [24:50]
B
Yeah, you know, that's kind of cool. And then how did things change once, like, these tube sites showed up?
- [24:56]
A
Yeah. So when the tube site showed up, that really changed everything. Right now, content was pretty much free and streaming piracy was rampant. And, you know, didn't matter how many takedown notices you sent, the same content would pop right back up again. You know, servers outside of the U.S. like, it's hard to shut those things down. So, yeah, it was. It was really hard for the industry. And there was a lot of companies that kind of, like, closed down because, you know, with the Internet and also, you know, this is always, like, coupled with, like, cheaper and cheaper cameras. Right. So that, like, more and more people can produce content at a professional level without spending an enormous amount of money. So, you know, now the Internet's come. Now you no longer need to have a distributor for your content. Right. Because before, like, if you wanted to direct, like, you had to find a production company that was willing to hire you and put your stuff out on. On DVDs. There was no other way to get your content out there. Now you can just put it on a website, and so anyone can do it. So now, I mean, that's like when the Internet and porn, like, really exploded and started to change and you started to get also really hardcore material. Because now these, like, you know, the distribution situation is irrelevant. So these different obscenity laws in different states doesn't matter because the Internet comes from anywhere and everywhere. So, yeah, so. So the industry changed a lot.
- [26:26]
B
And so, yeah, you sort of alluded to it, but the kind of content that was being produced, what was it kind of like before, you know, what. What was porn like back then? And then how did it change, you know, in terms of becoming more hardcore and more aggressive?
- [26:38]
A
Yeah, so before, you know, again, like, you were kind of bound by various obscenity laws in various states, so you had to be. Be careful about where you distributed your content. And in fact, like, there's been many obscenity cases. But Max Hardcore is one who actually went to jail for obscenity. And it was because one of his DVDs that I think had anal in it ended up accidentally being shipped to, I think, Florida, which had much stricter obscenity laws. And so they got him on that. Now, you know, it's. It's. It's kind of like the wild west of porn. And you can sort of do whatever you want and get away with whatever you want. And you've got these really hardcore scenes coming out, right where, I mean, I call it like the porn Olympics. It was almost like, how many things can you fit in your butt? You know? And it's just like. It's just kind of, like, ridiculous, really. And there's all kinds of, like, really cringe websites out there, like, facial abuse and like, all kinds of stuff that. It was just. I mean, look, you know, again, to each Their own. And everybody's free to enjoy whatever they want between consenting adults. But it certainly didn't make the industry look good.
- [27:48]
B
Yeah. Do you think it changed how people saw sex? Like, what normal sex should look like?
- [27:53]
A
Yeah, absolutely. I think that people are now, you know, looking at it, and it's more freely available to anyone. Especially these tube sites are not, like, age gated. Right. So now, like, minors are able to access.
- [28:06]
B
Well, they're changing that, right?
- [28:09]
A
Yes, it's changing state by state.
- [28:13]
B
Yeah.
- [28:13]
A
But that's problematic also in itself for other reasons. Yeah. So now, like, people are watching these porn scenes and they're seeing, you know, staged scenes with professional sexual athletes. And I don't say sexual athletes, like, lightly. Like, it is a lot of work to do a porn scene like these. These people are pretty amazing. And they're thinking that that is, you know, how I'm supposed to have sex. And unfortunately, with the lack of sex education in this country and the fact that people don't like to talk about sex, parents don't talk to their children about sex, or, you know, there's. It's not something that anybody communicates about. They're learning it behind closed doors from what is essentially, like, supposed to be provided only for entertainment.
- [28:58]
B
Right.
- [28:58]
A
You know, I mean, you don't learn to drive by watching the Fast and the Furious. You shouldn't learn how to have sex from watching, like, Backdoor Sluts 15.
- [29:08]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's a really important thing that you brought up, that these are. Are people who choose this profession, and then they become very proficient at being able to produce these scenes. So what sort of. Let's take a look behind the curtains, so to speak. Like, what does it take for a person to have sex at that level?
- [29:29]
A
I mean, they. You have to be in great shape. And a lot of it, like. Like, let's be fair, a lot of this rides on the shoulders of the male performers.
- [29:37]
B
Right.
- [29:37]
A
They do. They're like the unsung heroes of our industry. They do so much work and people don't generally acknowledge that, but, you know, they stay in shape, they eat clean, and, you know, they just know how to do things. Like, I mean, when you're opening up to camera so that you can see the penetration, you're essentially having sex sideways. It's kind of weird and awkward. A lot of times, if you see these crazy anal scenes, like, the girls stretch themselves out before the scene, they have a whole process that they go through the night before where it depends on the person Everybody's different. Each porn performer who is at least, like, at a significant professional level knows their body better than almost anybody. So some of them don't eat. Some of them do eat, but certain things, they clean themselves out, they stretch themselves out. I mean, I remember once I shot Cherie Deville for an anal brazos seat, and she brought like, a whole, like, you know, in the dentist chair, when they, like, fold out that kit with all the different tools.
- [30:39]
B
Yeah.
- [30:39]
A
It's kind of like what she had. It was just a, like, dildos that went from smaller to bigger. And she just kind of like goes down the line. Right. To, like, prepare herself.
- [30:47]
B
Right.
- [30:47]
A
Lots of breaks.
- [30:48]
B
Yeah.
- [30:49]
A
Lots of lube. There's also, you know, various tricks that we do. Like the hair pulling. A lot of times what the guy will do is he will hold the hair at the base tightly, but he'll kind of push his fist into the. Into her head. So he's not actually pulling her hair. And she is acting like her hair is being pulled. So she's pulling her head back like he's pulling her hair. Got it. So there's, like, all kinds of, like, little tips and tricks in there. Some people really do get their hair pulled because they like to get their hair pulled.
- [31:20]
B
Yeah.
- [31:20]
A
Right. So it just also depends on the person and what they're into.
- [31:24]
B
And then in these. Some of these scenes last for, you know, 30 minutes. Like, is. Are they literally having intercourse for that whole time or are there breaks and they're coming back? Like, what does it look like on the other side of it?
- [31:35]
A
It depends on the performers. It depends on the conditions. Right. If you're shooting in, like, a really hot space, then we're probably going to take a lot of breaks. Yeah, we're gonna turn the fan on. We're gonna. I mean, I've fanned performers down.
- [31:49]
B
Yeah.
- [31:50]
A
I'm gonna give you water lube, like, all those kinds of things. So, yeah, it just depends on the scene. Sometimes they go straight through, which is crazy to me. But again, like, sexual athletes. Like, I'm. I'm serious when I say that. And other times there's lots of breaks. So it just depends. But the thing is that ultimately we are making movie magic. When we go back into the scene, we're like, okay, you were in this position. We're going to start from a different camera so the edit looks seamless. I mean, the whole point is to make it look like it goes all the way through. But more often than not, there's breaks.
- [32:24]
B
Yeah. What would you say the top three misconceptions are about performers.
- [32:30]
A
That they're stupid, that they're on drugs, and that they're broken people. You know, some of, they're some of the most intelligent, creative, business savvy people I've met. Especially now. Right. Especially, you know, now that so many people can come in and create their own brand. And you know, some of these girls have gained really, you know, notoriety and big names for themselves and they've never shot for a studio ever. They've never had a producer tell them what to do. So you have to be an entrepreneur really to succeed in the adult industry now. And so I think you're getting a lot of people coming in who are like, look at this as an opportunity to, you know, become basically a marketing professional in sex. And you know, these, these girls work really, really hard. Now, it's not to say, like, obviously not everybody's, I mean, look, we're all, all of us are broken in some way.
- [33:26]
B
Sure.
- [33:27]
A
And in every industry there's people who do drugs and there's people, you know, have mental health issues. The adult industry is no exception whatsoever. But a majority of the people are pretty well balanced individuals. I, I really see them kind of like as renegades and like counterculture, like almost hippie type people.
- [33:46]
B
Yeah.
- [33:47]
A
You know, like they're, they want to do something different. Maybe they have a higher sex drive than other people and they come into the adult industry and they find like community there and they find people who love and accept them. It's a very close knit community. And it's interesting because I was talking to somebody who comes from like the mainstream Hollywood world and they came to one of our parties and they say that they were astounded at how everybody knows each other and how friendly everyone was with each other and how he really felt like this genuine love and connection in the room between people and that had. I never really thought about it that way. And they're right. Like we're all like, we're like a family.
- [34:27]
B
Yeah.
- [34:27]
A
I don't know there. I think there's something about being intimate with each other. Right. Of course that brings you closer on that level. But there's also something about performers who, I think that when you shed your clothes, literally, you kind of like shed your walls and you, you open yourself up to this level of vulnerability that nobody else does. There's just kind of like no pretense
- [34:52]
B
left and you can be yourself. Yeah, right. You, you're just, you're already like, you're already there basically.
- [34:58]
A
Exactly. You're already out there. And I think that that brings like, a level of, of freedom to like, how you, like, move in the world. Yeah, that I really like.
- [35:08]
B
What about misconceptions about the industry itself?
- [35:10]
A
Okay, so sex trafficking is like the biggest thing. I hear a lot of girls when, you know, they tell their. Finally tell their parents that they're in. You know, the first thought is like, oh, you were coerced into this. You were like sex trafficked into this. And like, it is not obviously sex trafficking exists. Right. I'm not gonna say that it doesn't. Like, we all know that it does. But like, to the extent that, which people try to suggest that sex trafficking happens in the adult industry is just not true.
- [35:37]
B
Yeah.
- [35:37]
A
And you know, when you say things like that, well, this girl can only be in the adult industry because she was sex trafficked, it's like you take away the choice and the agency from these girls and you suggest that they couldn't have possibly got into it because they wanted to. They don't have, like, a backbone, you know, to like, make decisions on their own. That women can't be inherently sexual creatures or exhibitionists or anything like that. That's one that I hear a lot, you know, that it's abusive. Again, there's always bad actors that will always exist. But I would not say that the adult industry is abusive. Abusive inherently in any way. Especially now, like I said, you know, we have, you know, very strict, like, set laws, you know, boundary checklists, things like that. It's. It's really important that people on set feel safe and feel heard. And I think every major company really, like, goes out on a limb to make sure that that's the case.
- [36:38]
B
Well, that's good. Did.
- [36:39]
A
Yeah.
- [36:39]
B
Was that always the case?
- [36:40]
A
No. Now the boundary checklist is something that existed in the kink community for quite a while, which makes sense, right? When you're being tied up and gagged and flogged.
- [36:50]
B
Yeah.
- [36:50]
A
You gotta, like, you gotta make sure that, like, they're on the same.
- [36:53]
B
Know when you're gonna stop.
- [36:54]
A
Yeah. And then you have your save words and you know exactly what you're okay with and what you're not okay with. But it didn't exist in the porn industry at all. And, you know, I think back about, you know, I, I was at the time, I was one of, like, the only female directors and photographers in the industry. There really wasn't anybody else. And as a woman, I thought that I could read the room and I could kind of tell if a girl like was uncomfortable or, or whatnot. And of course, I always told them before we started, like, you can call cut for any reason. You let me know, like, what are you okay with? What are you not okay with? Like, this was something just inherent in, like, the set culture that I cultivated from the start because that's what I learned from my mom. But when you are asking somebody in front of like a room of other people and that person knows that their paycheck relies on what they say, that the expectations of other people relies on what they say, you're not always going to get, like an honest answer.
- [37:48]
B
Yeah.
- [37:48]
A
And sometimes it's hard to. It's hard even for the performer to articulate or even think about, like, what they might or might not be okay with, because maybe they've never tried something before. They didn't even think that that might be a thing.
- [38:01]
B
Yeah.
- [38:02]
A
So now that we have these, like, written out checklists that are very detailed and we have these filmed consent talks between. With the director before the scene starts, I think that that has been like, enormously helpful. And then performers don't feel like, you know, they're like a real bummer if they say no to something in the middle of a scene when you're in that moment. And, you know, it's not always easy to speak up. Yeah, exactly. So it's just good to get that out of the way in the beginning.
- [38:33]
B
Yeah. And, you know, I think the other thing about. Well, I guess I'll. I'll address one misconception is I think that people think of porn directors as like, sort of fringe. Like, why would you want to direct porn? So maybe you can address that.
- [38:46]
A
Yeah, I understand that completely. I will say that, you know, people have asked me, like, what keeps you in the adult industry? And I always say it's, it's the people. Like, it really is like a great small industry full of, like, awesome people that you really forge a connection with. And one of the biggest big differences in working in porn that, like, a lot of people really don't think about is your crew, actually. So when you work in mainstream, you know, you usually do these big long projects, you know, that can last months, years. And then when you go to the next project, you are probably hired by a different producer and you're going to work with different people. So you never really get to like, have this same family of people that you work with.
- [39:32]
B
Right.
- [39:33]
A
Obviously, like, big directors have like, their certain cinematographers that they'll only work with, etc, but in porn, because as a director, you're also the producer and pretty much everything else. And the work is so consistent. You generally have your own crew members. So you have. You work with the same people all the time. And this really fosters, like, a connection with your team. And it also makes it sort of, like, easier to work because now they know you. They know what you like, they know what you're after. And then also, like, the talent, you often end up working with the same talent. The talent knows your crew. Right. So it becomes very much kind of like a family in that way. There's also no real red tape in the adult industry. Like, if you want to do a project in mainstream, you generally have to talk to the actors, managers, agents. You got to get funding. You got, like, it's a whole thing, right?
- [40:30]
B
Yeah.
- [40:31]
A
I can decide that I want to do a scene with whoever, and I can call up a couple of people, and I can literally, like, have it booked in three days.
- [40:41]
B
Yeah.
- [40:41]
A
And I can shoot whatever I want for the most part.
- [40:45]
B
And do you look at it as, like, an artistic project? Like, is it, like, do you feel that you're getting the same kind of sort of artistic liberties in terms of making something really unique that you would if you were doing a mainstream project?
- [40:57]
A
I think it depends on who you're working for. Right. Because there's definitely certain brands that. That, you know, rely only on data. And they just want you to keep shooting your stepmom stuck in the washing machine, because that's what people are buying. You know what I mean? And. And I think that that can definitely get really, like, repetitive. So, yeah, I think it depends on the company, the budget they're willing to give you. But I've definitely done some projects that I've really found, like, artistically fulfilling and I've really enjoyed. But, you know, I mean, porn, like anything else, is fueled by a capitalistic society. So, you know, at the end, they're looking for content that sells. You know, your audience isn't always as interested in the artistic integrity of your work as you might be.
- [41:42]
B
Right.
- [41:43]
A
So it's sort of like a balance.
- [41:45]
B
Yeah. Do you feel like the. What the audience wants has really changed in modern society compared to, let's say, 20 years ago?
- [41:52]
A
I wish. I wish I could. I. I will say that there's definitely, like, more women watching porn. In fact, pornhub does a really interesting survey of, you know, trends throughout the year. I mean, obviously, they're the biggest adult site out there. They have the most amount of data, and they. They put this out every year, and they found that the amount of women watching porn in 2025 had increased, like, significantly. And also, like, the amount of people, like, watching trans porn has increased significantly. So we're seeing a lot, like, more diversity and we're seeing, you know, more people interested in different kinds of content. But ultimately, the stepmom stuck in the washing machine still seems to be leading the charge.
- [42:41]
B
What do you think that says about society? I mean, like, I don't. I don't know. Obviously, I'm not the target demographic for stepmom stuck in a washing machine. But, like, I. I don't understand. Like, I guess, what does that say about people?
- [42:53]
A
I don't know.
- [42:54]
B
I mean, is it the forbidden that people are drawn to?
- [42:56]
A
I think the forbidden, you know, the. The idea of being. It's called so, by the way, it's called free use porn. This is kind of like a new trend where someone is stuck in a doggy door or a washing machine or under the bed or under the couch or in the doorway. I mean, it gets really ridiculous. So, yeah, I think it's. It's always the taboo and the forbidden. Right. And I think that we have so many, you know, blended families now and, like, divorced families, and people grow up with stepmothers and stepbrothers and stepsisters and all of that. So I imagine that it's sort of like art imitating life in a way
- [43:36]
B
or fantasy, I guess.
- [43:37]
A
Yeah, perhaps.
- [43:38]
B
Yeah. I think the other thing I really want to talk about is, you mentioned it, that men are like the unsung heroes of performance. And women do, obviously, too, but they face this. This, like, intense physical demands, right. To maintain interaction for long periods of time, pressure to perform, like, immediately. Right when you start recording, you know, they got to be ready. How do they handle that?
- [44:03]
A
Yeah, this. This is a tough one. Right. And I actually just had Mick Blue on recently, and he talked extensively and very openly about this, which I appreciate, because, you know, I never want to paint a picture that, like, everything in the adult industry is like, like, rainbows and unicorns and everything's great. We're all, like, super happy and, like, really well balanced and everything's fine. And I think that, you know, it's an issue. So obviously, with the advent of Viagra and other tools to help men keep erections, there's a bigger influx of men coming into the industry because now more people are kind of able to do it. When before the days of Viagra, like, you really, like, had to just be somebody who really liked sex a lot and could get aroused and could get aroused by almost anything and, and really could like do the mental gymnastics to get you through that day because it is a mind game. And you know, Mick Blue, who is been in the industry I think as long as I have, has like 7,000 scenes to his name or more.
- [45:01]
B
Wow.
- [45:02]
A
You know, he doesn't use any kind of like aids. And he, you know, talked about how he sees so many young men come in and they just instantly start. They'll just take it. Right. Whether or not they need it. They just take it because they want to be able to do the scene and they don't want to ever come up short or to fail. I mean, it's, I've been in a lot of scenes where men have failed and not been able to complete the scene. And it is embarrassing, it is a humiliating experience and it is not pleasant. And so, you know, guys will do kind of almost anything to be able to carry the scene. And of course, like a lot of brands are always looking for new guys because it really is like the same like 10 guys that, you know, like another misconception that people have about porn is like, oh, these women, they're sleeping with hundreds of strangers. No, no, they're not. They're sleeping with like the same 10 guys all the time.
- [45:56]
B
Yeah, right. Yeah, I heard that before and I was surprised. I had no idea how few men there were. And, and also that these are the men that obviously have self selected and. But so many men are comparing themselves to these, these 10 guys who are, you know, as you've described, sort of like performance athletes when it comes to sex.
- [46:12]
A
Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, it's. There's people that are tall and play in the NBA and then there's guys with large penises that are in porn. It's just like that's kind of the thing that they, they are good at, right?
- [46:24]
B
Yeah.
- [46:24]
A
And it's definitely not a measure that men should put themselves up again, but it's hard to do so when that's, that's what you see. And you know, if, if your sexual experiences are, are often, you know, mostly limited to you masturbating to porn, you're not really getting a very skewed perspective. But yeah, so, you know, we see guys taking a lot of Viagra and then the Viagra stops working and they start moving on to other methods. I mean, cavjac is something that you, you know, spoke about when you came on and you gave some really helpful insight into that. So I just want to thank you for that.
- [47:00]
B
Again, yeah. So just for the audience, cav act is a method of intercavernosal injection, which is essentially injected into the penis to get an erection within, like, 10 minutes. And that erection typically lasts for quite some time and then goes away. But there are risks with it because if you use it and your erection lasts longer than four hours, during that time, there's no oxygen flowing back and forth, and it can then cause permanent damage if not treated. And. Yes. So I, I. You know, there are performers who obviously use that to support themselves and. And, yeah. So, I mean, do a lot of them use these agents in your experience?
- [47:36]
A
I believe so. I mean, a lot of times they won't tell you.
- [47:39]
B
Right.
- [47:40]
A
They'll just say, like, can you Let me know 10 minutes before the scene starts? And then they'll go into the bathroom with like, a little black.
- [47:46]
B
Yeah.
- [47:46]
A
Makeup or toiletry bag. And.
- [47:49]
B
Yeah.
- [47:50]
A
I don't know what's in there. Probably not just baby wipes. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know for sure. I'm not watching, but sure. You know, and I know, you know, know some performers that have damaged themselves irreparably from using too much of that. Those substances and now can no longer perform and find themselves in a situation where now they don't know what to do with their life because they haven't learned any other skills or, you know, tried to. Tried anything else. And it's. It's really sad.
- [48:19]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, Viagra. So I just want to clear this up. These medications, they shouldn't necessarily stop working, but what happens is if you're using them and you start developing blood flow issues or other issues causing erectile dysfunction, at some point they're going to not work well enough for those issues. So as people age, those things can become an issue. And if you're really stressed and anxious, it can't overcome that. So when you're stressed and anxious, your blood vessels clench up or not clench up.
- [48:47]
A
Sorry.
- [48:47]
B
When you're really stressed and anxious, your blood vessels narrow, so less blood flow goes through. And at some point, if your sympathetic nervous system is too revved up, the medications are just not going to work. So there's those factors. I want people to be understand that they don't just stop working because you use them too much. It's because of the underlying things.
- [49:04]
A
Yeah. And of course, like, the idea of not being able to get an erection or carry a scene is incredibly stressful to the guy.
- [49:11]
B
Absolutely. Yeah. And how long are these men in the performance industry? Like, how Many years does the average performer stay in the industry for?
- [49:20]
A
Oh, man, it's so hard to say, like, what the average is because there's so many people that just come in and then disappear right off the radar. So I would say that probably most people come in. And again, like, this is the other problem too, with, like, all of these, like, personal and creative platforms. Like, now, like, an only fan star, Are they a porn star too? And there's, like, been a lot of back and forth about that. So now, like, what one would consider, like, a porn star has, like, vastly increased because now you've got people who are just making their own porn at home.
- [49:51]
B
Right.
- [49:52]
A
So, like, are we counting those people? It's like, it's. It's really tricky. But I would say that probably the average person is, I don't know, maybe three years.
- [50:00]
B
Okay. So pretty short.
- [50:01]
A
Yeah. And that might be generous.
- [50:04]
B
Yeah.
- [50:04]
A
If we're talking about, like. Like I said, like, everyone coming into the industry.
- [50:08]
B
Wow. And yeah. Let's talk about OnlyFans a little bit. Do you feel like you're seeing less people joining the adult entertainment industry, like, formally and more people doing only fans? Like, are you seeing an attrition in new performers?
- [50:21]
A
Yeah, I would say that you're. We're definitely seeing more people coming in and just getting on only f. And a lot of times, and this is a big gripe of a lot of directors is that a lot of times these OnlyFans stars will then do big scenes with companies like browsers and stuff, only for the traffic to their onlyfans. So they come and they do these scenes only because, like, literally it's a marketing move for them. And then the directors have complained that they're not really into the scene. They're not. Not professional performers, quote, unquote. This is not me saying this. And they come in and they do sort of like, they have a lot of followers, so, you know, they'll hire them and then they do a sort of lackluster scene. And it's really just to promote their own platforms and they don't really care about, you know, whether or not they're trying to build, like, a studio career. So we're seeing kind of a lot of. Of that. The other problem is too, is that within the professional porn industry, we have very, like, rigorous and strict testing methods. Right. Everybody has to be tested minimum every two weeks. We have a lot of panels that. That people have to test for and creators who are not necessarily, you know, being shot by, like, a professional team or producer. They're just doing stuff in their bedroom. They may be ignorant of these testing protocols that other people are following. Right. Which no fault to them. And they may not be doing testing protocols, and then they're sometimes working with people who are also working in the professional industry, and it sort of causes, like, a little bit of a ripple. A ripple? Yeah, like, almost like a little leak in that. So there was a lot of discussion around that. I feel like a year, two years ago. But I think that, like, people have become more educated on the testing now, and I haven't heard so much about it lately, but I know that's been a problem in the past.
- [52:21]
B
Interesting. Let's talk a little bit about special effects. I think a lot of people that I speak to patients, and they get concerned, like, oh, they're seeing, like, why is my ejaculate volume low? Or how come my partner doesn't squirt? And obviously, some of these people do naturally have larger volumes or naturally squirt, but sometimes there's special effects. Is that right?
- [52:43]
A
Yes.
- [52:44]
B
Yeah. So maybe let's talk about that.
- [52:46]
A
Yes, I am here to ruin your fantasies. So. Yes, one of the most common. So the two most common things that we use for, like, the facials, right. You get. You see at the end of a photo set, at the end of a video set, this girl's, like, covered in. In white stuff. A lot of times that is cetaphil.
- [53:03]
B
Okay.
- [53:04]
A
The. The very. There's two kinds of, like, cetaphil face wash. I can't remember which one is the one that we have to use, but I've definitely had my assistant get the wrong one. It's too clear. There's, like, a thicker one.
- [53:14]
B
Yeah.
- [53:14]
A
So that's usually what we do use. Or pina colada mix.
- [53:18]
B
Okay.
- [53:19]
A
If you want to put it in the person's mouth.
- [53:20]
B
Yeah, right.
- [53:21]
A
And have them, like, swish it around and drool it out. Most people don't want to put cetaphil in their mouth because it tastes gross. So pina colada mix is also another one. Also spunk lube, which is a lube, but it looks a lot like ejaculate. That is often used, and that is particularly used when we shoot cream pie scenes. Because, again, you don't want to put cetaphil or pina colada mix inside your vagina. So what we will use is spunk, and we will pump it in there, and the guy will put his penis in, and then we'll hit record again, and then he'll pull it out and all this, you know, creamy stuff will come out, but it's. It's not cum.
- [54:00]
B
Yeah.
- [54:00]
A
Spunk lube, usually. Not always.
- [54:05]
B
Well, that's helpful to know. And then let's talk a little bit about penile size. Obviously, the performers tend to be. Be much longer than average. How do female performers perceive that?
- [54:16]
A
So, you know, funny enough, most women, when I ask them, you know, how they feel about penis size, and believe me, this is a subject I ask about a lot because every guy wants to know. Most of them say that they actually don't care.
- [54:29]
B
Yeah.
- [54:29]
A
And it's not that important to them. And if anything, they would prefer somebody on the smaller side, because having sex every day with someone like Dread. Dread could be, you know, it's fine for a scene, but, like, could be painful over the long run. And I. You know, on the contrary, I've also interviewed, you know, performers with really large penises like Dread. And he's actually said that, like, you know, sometimes, like, a girl won't have sex with me because my penis is too big. Like, it's been a problem for him.
- [54:57]
B
Yeah.
- [54:58]
A
Which I know.
- [54:58]
B
Outside the industry.
- [54:59]
A
Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Or even inside the industry. I mean, there are certain girls that have him on their no list simply because his penis is too big. It's just like, they. They're like, I can't fit that inside me. It hurts. And he's the nicest guy, so it has nothing to do with him as a person.
- [55:13]
B
Right.
- [55:13]
A
It's just like, they just don't think that they can. They can take it.
- [55:16]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's. That's really important to know, I think. And we had on the podcast the world's largest medically verified penis. Matt. His name is Matt. And he talked about his experience with. Which is similar, that some people are like, no, I'm not interested, or it's not possible, and it's painful and. And so it's not, you know, always a blessing.
- [55:39]
A
Yeah. How.
- [55:40]
B
I'm.
- [55:40]
A
I'm so curious now. How big was he?
- [55:42]
B
So he said, you know, obviously it changes depending on how aroused he is. And. But, like, I think it was like 13 or 14 inches, if I remember correctly. I don't remember the exact number, but it was somewhere. I think it was between 13 and 14. Yeah.
- [55:53]
A
And he's not a performer, I assume.
- [55:54]
B
No, no, no. He's a regular guy. Guy.
- [55:56]
A
Wow.
- [55:56]
B
The regular guy man. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a big conception that performers are. Are they continuing to have sex, like, before or after the cameras are rolling or is it just for performing?
- [56:09]
A
Again, it kind of depends on the people. Sometimes they, you know, are really into it. Like, I like Adriana Chek is just somebody like, who. She just loves sex. Right? And I remember I shot a scene with her, her and her and the male performer, like literally just started having sex before I was like, could you not, could you save that for the camera, please? Could you not eat all of her makeup off? Like, I don't want to have to retouch her. I was like, can you guys just stop? Yeah, so that happens. But more often than not, it's pretty much safe for the camera.
- [56:42]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. And then a lot of these people obviously have their own partners and have their own relationships and families. You sort of alluded to how do they, they, how do their partners, you know, perceive their career? Like, do they just look at like, oh, that's their job, that's fine, that's separate. Or do. Is there jealousy involved?
- [57:00]
A
I mean, yeah, it's, it's, it's across the board, right? It's like a wide spectrum. I mean, I would say that I think most porn stars do experience difficulty in dating because, you know, it starts off with, oh, this is so cool. I'm dating this like famous porn star and like, look at me. And then it becomes, oh, well, you had sex with this person and you had sex with all of these people. And you look like you're having a better time on film with this person than you do in bed with me. Are you? Am I not as good as they are? Even though it's a fantasy and they're playing it up, you know, these doubts can enter guys minds and, and then, you know, what their friends say. So it can definitely, you know, I've seen a lot of relationships fail because of that. The guys get jealous and then, you know, there's some people that have been together for a really long time and, and the husbands or boyfriends are fully accepting of what they do. A lot of times they work with them. So either like they're also a performer or they might help them run their business. Yeah, that's pretty common. But yeah, I would say that, you know, it's definitely a speed bump for a lot of performers.
- [58:12]
B
That's interesting. Do you feel like when people are, obviously, they look like they're having a lot of fun and you alluded to that during. Obviously that's what their job is, to make it look like it's a lot of fun. Is it always? Because I can Imagine you mentioned sort of, it's like gotta kind of have sex sideways, but to make it look good for the camera. It might not always actually be pleasurable or enjoyable. Is that right?
- [58:35]
A
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's definitely times when, you know, either were. I remember I shot a movie for Wicked with Kate and we were, you know, these days when you shoot these features, these days are so long. I don't know. We were on the 16th hour. Right. I mean, it's like 2 in the morning.
- [58:54]
B
Yeah.
- [58:54]
A
And I'm shooting like the final scene and like Casey's on top of Seth and I think she was starting to fall asleep.
- [59:03]
B
Oh, gosh.
- [59:04]
A
You know what I mean? Like, it was just like we were all so tired and then I had to call cut. And then we all just. Just like, you know, fell over laughing because it was just this moment where like, clearly, like, everyone's. Everyone was just done, you know. So I don't think that she's necessarily enjoying it at that stage. So. Yeah, it just depends on the conditions. I mean, sometimes, you know, we're shooting under brutal conditions, we're tired, it's late, it can be really hot, it can be really cold. The guy's dick can be too big and it's uncomfortable for the girl. She's like, trying to, you know, she needs to take a lot of breaks. And so in between, she's, you know, pretending like she's enjoying it, but she's not enjoying it. So. Yeah, it's not always. It's not always pleasurable.
- [59:44]
B
Yeah. And I think, I think it's really important because I see a lot of young guys who get exposed to pornography and feel like, oh, that's their first sexual experience that they're seeing. And then they go to have sex with their own partner. And it's very different, obviously, because they're not performance athletes. They're not taking breaks. They're not like, there's no special effects. And so they're like, why either am I not behaving like the porn star or why is my partner not responding in the way that. That that porn star's partner was responding? And they're feeling really self conscious about it.
- [60:14]
A
Yeah. And I think also too, like, what a lot of guys forget is that women, the one thing that I hear. This is another question that I ask a lot of performers, female performers, is like, there's not enough foreplay involved. Right. In porn. Like, we only got so much time to shoot a scene.
- [60:30]
B
Yeah.
- [60:30]
A
Like, we don't have time to shoot, like, well. And look, actually that's not true. It depends on the film that you're watching. There's definitely like, films that lean more like, as they say, like feminist porn, like Erica Lust, where you, you would might get a lot of foreplay, but in general, trying to fit it into 30 minutes, we have a limited amount of time at the location. It's like $150 an hour. If we go over, then it's $300 an hour. And, you know, everyone's trying to make all these pieces fit. So, you know, there's generally not a lot of time spent on like filming the foreplay. And I think that that's something that women, you know, wish that they got more of from their partners.
- [61:07]
B
Yeah. How long would you, would you say it takes to record that average 30 minute episode or, you know, scene?
- [61:15]
A
I would give it. If you're including like the boundary checklist prior and the consent talk and everything. Let's say probably like an hour.
- [61:25]
B
Okay.
- [61:25]
A
But yeah, I mean, it depends. It can take. I, I've. It's taken me hours to shoot a film before. Especially if the guy's struggling and he's to keep like going to the bathroom with porn, which is kind of funny. They'll put porn on their phone and they'll go watch porn and try to get hard even though they're filming porn and there's a real girl there.
- [61:44]
B
That's interesting.
- [61:44]
A
You know, whatever, like, it takes for you to get there. Like, I am not gonna judge because again, like, they do not have an easy job.
- [61:50]
B
Right. Right. Now we have mentioned OnlyFans a little bit and OnlyFans has like, changed people's lives. Right. Like, there was that famous Mormon widow mom, Holly Jane, who was working a 9 to 5 and then like started making millions in revenue on Only Fans. What do you feel like about the platform as a whole? Do you feel like it's a net positive? Are there things you wish that would change?
- [62:14]
A
Yeah, no, I think like, overall, like, Only Fans has definitely changed the landscape. And I actually, like, I know the people there and I've had like meetings with them. And I remember we were, we were talking about something and I said to them on the call, I'm like, you guys realize, like, you've literally changed the entire industry, right? Like, you've been the cause of like the most dramatic shift that the porn industry has seen. And I've, like, seen it all. And they were just kind of like, yeah, it was just this funny moment. I was like, do you know how much you've changed the industry.
- [62:44]
B
Yeah.
- [62:45]
A
And I don't think anyone really saw it coming. I think it's definitely changed things for the better because, you know, like I said, it's given more power to the performers, which I think was really necessary. So it's a much more like even landscape performers are treated much better now because brands have to. Right. Like, yeah, the performers no longer feel confined by like any sort of financial restriction attributed to studios only. So performers are now more likely to speak out. Right. If they are working with a particularly like predatory director or even like fellow performer. Whereas before they might be afraid of being blacklisted. So they wouldn't say anything. Right now that's not really so much a concern. So I think that that's really helped. It's really helped us like push bad actors out of the industry. Now we are, you know, we. Not always. They do sometimes sneak back in, but you know, like performers really kind of bond together in terms of calling out bad experiences. And so I think like directors are more careful than they used to be. Brands are definitely more careful than they used to be. But what I do think is a very common misconception that I think needs to be addressed is because the news cycle obviously, like, likes to latch onto stories that sell, right? Stories that people are going to read and the story of somebody going from like a Mormon widow barely scraping it together to like becoming a millionaire on Only Fans is like what people latch onto. Right. But the thing is, is that most people on Only Fans don't make more than like a couple hundred bucks a month. Yeah, like a majority of them. And so I think a lot of people make the mistake of thinking, oh, I'll just start an only fans and all make a ton of money. And that's actually not true. You have to work so hard at building an audience to make money on OnlyFans. You have to build a big Instagram following or a big Twitter following. You have to redirect people to your only fans where on most platforms they don't allow a direct link to OnlyFans. So you have to subvert that by a link tree or like, you know, little wink, wink, nudge, nudge, like, like find me on of, you know, things on, on tick tock or whatever and constantly getting your social media shut down. It's a lot of work. So I just caution people against like thinking that they can just come in and like suddenly start making millions of dollars. It's, it's not true. Now there are other platforms that are probably, might be easier for one to Succeed on at least at the beginning, before you build a big social media following. Platforms with internal discovery systems where there is, like a for you page, like there is on Instagram, where people can discover you and you can build an audience.
- [65:27]
B
Yeah.
- [65:27]
A
Camming platforms are pretty common in that respect. A lot of cam sites, when they have a new model, they, like, push them out into, like, the ether so more people will see you. Yeah, so. So that might be, like, a good alternative. I think that, like, if you're looking to get into adult work, you shouldn't only think only fans, right? Like, you shouldn't think that's the only place. There's so many other options and different platforms that might be more suitable for you that might at least, like, help you in the beginning before you're able to build that following that you can bring people onto your platform. On OnlyFans.
- [66:04]
B
Sure. And I think the other thing is, as a. So the thing that I wonder about is because porn used to be like this. You watch it and you have this, like, it's not even a relationship with the entertainer, and she's, like, watching a movie, right? You just see them, you have. You might be a fan, but, like, that's it. But now with OnlyFans, you can get these sort of parasocial relationships with the performers. And I worry that as people become more and more lonely and are not finding sort of attachments in real life, that they're now latching on to these sorts of things. Any thoughts on that?
- [66:34]
A
Yeah, no, I think it's definitely an issue. And it can be really hard. Right. And I know that there's a lot of creators who don't follow this guideline, and I think it can be dangerous. But I have always been of the mind. Like, if I have a guy who's on my only fans who thinks that he has a chance with me. Like, I've had guys who are like, you're gonna leave your husband for me? And I'm like, no, no, I'm not. Like, once it gets to that stage, I really try to, like, come down pretty hard and just, like, set that boundary and be like, look like, this is. This is what this is. This is a fantasy platform. You know, I am not your next wife. I am not your next girlfriend. I am not a replacement for, like, a real human being. Right. And I've had guys find girlfriends and then leave only fans. And I'm, like, so happy for them.
- [67:24]
B
Right.
- [67:24]
A
You know, I'm like, that's so great. I'm so glad you found somebody like, it's fine that you're not subscribed anymore. Like, that. That is. That is great for you, you know, and it should be a place where, yes, you can connect with people, but it is not a replacement for real life relationships in any way, shape or form, are there.
- [67:44]
B
There are performers on there who are like, actually sort of capitalizing on that 100. Yeah.
- [67:49]
A
And a lot of times it's not even necessarily the performers. It's like agencies that run their page. Right. And they are just, like, trying to. Because they don't care about people. Like, I've had. I. I've, you know, talked to people who wanted to run my page and, you know, I refused. But one guy actually said to me, he goes, these are not people, they're wallets. And I was like, that's the most disgusting approach I've ever heard. Like, I don't want anything to do with you. But people really think that and they absolutely take advantage of. You know, some of these guys are really lonely, and they really play into this idea that they could one day be with this girl if they just keep tipping them or keep buying their content. And I think that that's really dangerous. That's how you, you know, create stalkers. And it's also really unfair.
- [68:38]
B
Yeah.
- [68:38]
A
To the fans themselves.
- [68:39]
B
Well, it's scary. I think it really does set a negative precedent because one, we're like, capitalizing on these people who are lonely. But then on top of it, like, I think that it's. It's unsafe for the performer ultimately. Right. I mean, they may be doing it unknowingly, but, like, it could be very unsafe.
- [68:56]
A
Yeah. Yeah. You have to be careful. And I've definitely had people clap back. I've had to block some guys, even though I feel like I've. I try to be extremely clear, but some people just. They don't. They don't want to hear. No.
- [69:10]
B
You talked a little bit about the, you know, the regular sort of testing, but is there the same sort of, like, I mean, it's sort of up to the performer in terms of their safety and oversight. Like, if they get an agency to run their page, are they telling them what they should and shouldn't do? Are they trying to enforce those sorts of things?
- [69:26]
A
Yeah. When it comes to collabs, I don't know. Like, I mean, because that's the thing that's outside of, like, the. The professional, like, porn world in which I operate. So when, you know, two people who maybe just started their only fans and. And are in no way Shape or form connected to the adult industry. They come together and they have a. Have sex. I have no idea if they're sharing tests or what they're doing. And, you know, unfortunately, there's a lot of a lack of, like, porn literacy out there. There isn't really like, one place for you to go and kind of like, learn everything that you need to know about porn. I've had a lot of people say that they've learned a lot from my podcast, which I'm very grateful for. But even then, like, I'm 430 episodes in, like, what's going to listen to every single one of them? You know what I mean? But, and again, like, it's just something that, you know, people just don't know where to go. And when you look at porn, like, in the mainstream world, they're not directing you to a place where you could, like, safely learn about how to get in the adult industry. Like, even if I. And I've done this, like, I've created like, a YouTube video about this, YouTube will. Will pull the video. I'm. I'm here and I'm trying to, like, educate you on how to, like, enter the porn industry, like, safely. And they. Yeah, they. That goes against their community guidelines.
- [70:43]
B
Yeah. So, yeah, interesting. There is some research that looks at, like, ethical porn and feminist porn and say that it's. It's educational first. What is that? And what do you. What are you seeing? What do you think? There's a real meaningful difference.
- [70:58]
A
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing, right? Like, feminist porn. What is feminist porn? What is a feminist. What do women like? You know, like, not all women. Women like the same thing. And, you know, it's easy to kind of like, bunch us together and be like, all women like to watch things with storylines and romance and kissing. And that's not always true. I know a lot of girls that like some really wild. So, you know, I think that. I mean, I know that, like, if you talk to someone like Erica Lust, she would probably say, you know, something that focuses on female pleasure over male pleasure. Because usually, usually, like, a porn scene ends when the guy comes. Right. And. And that's like, how it is. And it's focused on, you know, his pleasure, his ending and that kind of thing. So I suppose that could be a way that you could differentiate the two more artistic, alternative kinds of scenes, not less. Stepmom stuck in the washer.
- [71:53]
B
Yeah.
- [71:53]
A
Dryer. Yeah. Scenes. But, yeah, I mean, it's kind of. It's kind of hard to define mine specifically.
- [71:59]
B
Yeah. Interesting. Do you think that it affects people differently? Like people who watch that kind of porn?
- [72:06]
A
I think that like, so if you watch like an air. If you like go and join like an Erica Lust website and watch her scenes. Should get an affiliate code or something. Erica. But you will see like she has a lot of, of body diversity, gender identity diversity. She, she employs directors from like all over the world to kind of produce something that is, is different or interesting to them. So you're going to see a lot more like artistic experiments with the content that, that she produces and she provides. But you know, I also know that like it's still a smaller audience than the general public. It's mostly got like the amount of women watching porn. Yes. It's increased, but it's still a majority is men.
- [72:57]
B
Yeah.
- [72:58]
A
And they want stepmother stuck in the washing machine. I guess because we have to keep shooting it.
- [73:06]
B
I guess so.
- [73:07]
A
So it's like, you know, we, we try to do things that are. Appeal to different people and, and there are, and it is great because there is an audience for that, but it's just not the same audience. So financially I think it's really hard to run a studio like that and, and do extremely well.
- [73:29]
B
I think the point that I really think people should take home is like you're making content that people are demanding, right. It's not that you're making content because you think it's good, it's because that's what people want to see. So I think when people get upset at the point industry for making that kind of content, it's because that's what is what people are watching. Right. And your feelings about it are neutral. Right. It's just like it's a business at the end of the day.
- [73:52]
A
I mean, if anything, like, I mean we make jokes about the washing machine and the step sister and stepbrother stuff because we are so sick of shooting it.
- [74:01]
B
Right.
- [74:02]
A
But you know, I mean websites like pornhub, which is owned by a Lou, which owns browsers, Twisties, Digital Playground, all these big brands, they are very data driven. They are looking at the numbers and they are producing content that appeases to the people that are looking at that content. So.
- [74:20]
B
Right, right. And I think the thing is it's a fantasy and I think that's where people get sort of confused. It's like it's a fantasy. People are allowed to have healthy fantasies. But as long as they stay in a fantasy world. Right. When you start bringing that into your real life, either comparing yourself to it or you Start feeling like you're inadequate because of it. It. Or you become, you know, finding yourself need more and more fantasy and less real life. Those are times where we get worried about people's use. And I'm assuming that you would agree with that.
- [74:50]
A
Yeah, and I think that that's why it's so important that like, you know, you have, you know, channels such as yours that reach such a wide audience of, I think, men that probably have these concerns and we have these conversations because I don't think that people really hear that very often. Like, nobody, again, nobody talks about sex, nobody talks about porn. And so, you know, they get caught in this TR of thinking. What they see in a video is what is real life and it's not.
- [75:19]
B
Right. And that's the only. As you've mentioned and I've mentioned many times too, sex ed is very minimal and if not non existent in some countries, most countries. And so people just don't know and no one teaches them. And so porn becomes a big place where people go to learn for better or worse. Right. It's not teaching you how people really respond and how people really perform necessarily. And I hate the word perform because sex is not a performance, but how people sort of have sex and intimacy. And so that's a challenge. But there's no other place where they're learning really anything in terms of how to have sex with another person. And they're also not getting a lot of feedback. Right. Because the person's not saying this is good or this is bad because they have their own insecurities. When you're young and you don't know anything, you just sort of of like, oh, I think this is supposed to be how it goes and everyone just sort of does it. Right. So if you could change sexual education in the country, what would you do?
- [76:16]
A
I mean, I would have it exist.
- [76:20]
B
Well, let's say in the US it exists. So how would you change it?
- [76:23]
A
I mean, I think that, you know, there's the, there's sex education, how a penis and a vagina works, how babies are made. But I think that like, the one thing that we, we don't talk about is also like, about relationships and intimacy and pleasure even, you know, and obviously, like, this is not really a topic that you can get into in schools, like high schools, because they're not of age yet.
- [76:51]
B
Yeah.
- [76:51]
A
So I don't know like at what stage you, or how you, you know, implement that. But I do think that, you know, people need to learn not just how bodies work, but also like how, like, sexual relationships work and how, like, communication works.
- [77:08]
B
I think at this point, it's really up to the parents, you know, and I think the, the misconceptions that they're learning it in school and they'll figure it out, and it's natural and it's normal. You'll just figure it out. And to some degree, sure, we all can figure it out, the basics. But I think the reality is to have that conversation about pleasure and about pleasing yourself and pleasing someone else and having a mutual relationship of pleasure and how to do that and how to be able to ask someone questions. Right. And leaving that door open is so important. And if par parents don't do it, who is going to do it? Where are they going to learn that from?
- [77:37]
A
Yeah, right. So I was asking a friend of mine who is a family psychologist because, you know, I have a young daughter and I want to make sure, even though I work in the sex industry, I also, like, have questions about, like, when it's appropriate to talk to her about certain things and, and how can I approach these subjects without, like, creating any sense of shame, but also, like, helping her understand, like, what's appropriate in the world. Right. And she directed me to a website, which I have on my phone. I can pull it up if you want me to plug it for your. For your audience. But it is a website that literally has, like, information about how to talk about sex with your kids, like, at every age. And it has videos that you can watch with your kid. So if you have a hard time, like, explaining it or you don't know how to. How to get into that, you can watch these videos with your child at whatever appropriate age that they're at, and then that can facilitate a conversation. And it's really like, a helpful guide to help parents talk to their kids about sex. Because I think, like, you have to do it. Like, so many parents are just like, oh, well, my kid is, you know, oh, well, he's 10. He's not. Like, he doesn't know what porn is. I'm like, are you sure?
- [78:51]
B
Well, like, the average age of people seeing porn is 10. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, you know, And. And, you know, my sons are very open with me. So my older, older son will tell me that his friends have talked to him about it. You know, that's not a bad thing. They're talking about it, but he tells me, and I was like, well, have you seen it? Do you have questions? And to this date, he has not admitted that he has, but Like, I think the important, like, I know there are kids talking about this and you know, we live in a, like a safe, like, neighborhood where, you know, every, like it's, it's not like we're in some place where like this is. Oh, the parents are not present with their kids and so they're figuring it out. Like everyone knows how to use phone blockers and all these things, right? So I, I think like, regardless of what you do, your kids are going to find a way to see it if they want to see it, if they're curious. And so we have to have porn literacy.
- [79:38]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And I think like, no matter how careful you might be, and maybe you don't give your kid a smartphone or if you do you have like blockers on there or whatnot. Like, that doesn't mean that when they go to like their friend's house that their friends like older brother isn't going to have something on their phone. You know what I mean? Like, you can't control like, how your child experiences the. So the only thing that you can do is try to teach them to the best of your ability about what they're going to be facing and help them understand it.
- [80:08]
B
Yeah, yeah, I agree, and I think you and I agree on this, that porn should be something that's seen by adults who have fully formed frontal lobes who can differentiate fantasy from reality. And so I know we did kind of briefly touch on how there's now becoming age restrictions in different stages states. Where do you see that going? Is that, do you think that's going to continue in terms of becoming a national thing?
- [80:31]
A
Yeah, I think so. I mean, you know, more and more states are picking up on this and doing the age verification. I mean, you know, there's, there's, in principle I, I think it is a good idea, but in execution it's, it's really problematic. One of the reasons is, you know, they want you to verify your age with an ID and like your face. Right? Like maybe a biometric scan. Well, we know that most people are very nervous about putting their personal identification into what they see as a porn site. It's actually not the porn site that's collecting your data, right.
- [81:08]
B
Goes to a third party site.
- [81:09]
A
It's a third party. Like for my website, I just had to install Verify My and so if you try to access my website in a state that has these restrictions, you have to go, go get yourself like, you know, age verified by Verify My and then any other website that has Verify My, you'll be automatically Approved. But most people don't want to do that.
- [81:28]
B
Right.
- [81:28]
A
And you know when you go to the liquor store and you flash your ID to buy vodka, like the gas attendant is just looking at it, right. He's not ingesting it into a computer. And even if he is, it's alcohol. So there's not the same stigma attached. So the thing is, is that of course, course. And this is also costing the websites as well. Like I have to pay for every single time somebody verifies their age when they come to my website.
- [81:52]
B
Right.
- [81:52]
A
I have to pay that. So there's the additional cost burden, which is why pornhub has blocked so many states. Because if they were having to pay for all the age verifications that would go through because of all the traffic that they have, it would cost them an obscene amount of money.
- [82:07]
B
But don't you think so, I mean, I, I'm going to play devil's advocate here, here. So say it was a national thing. Don't you think to some degree, like people just get over it? Like if they want to watch porn, they got to put their ID in. Like it's, it's just a normal thing. So they'll eventually get over that. And two is the benefit of avoiding children seeing porn. And yes, they could still see it in other ways, but it might be a little bit more difficult. Is that, I mean, I guess is there any data to support and I don't know this, but maybe that it would be better they wouldn't see it. They would move that median age to 18 from 10.
- [82:40]
A
Right. So I do think that there, we need to do something about it. Right. Like there. But the way that this, the best way for this to happen would be at a device level. So if you buy like an iPhone, you can verify your age when you buy the iPhone. And if you're of the age of 18, it unlocks like certain things.
- [82:58]
B
Right.
- [82:59]
A
And so at that device level then you can, you know, do certain things if you're over the age 18, if you're under the age of 18, you, you can also. If the, this age verification wasn't specifically attributed to porn, if it was attributed to all age gated materials, like gambling, like liquor, is it not. It's not interesting. Yeah, yeah.
- [83:21]
B
So that's gambling should be for sure. Liquor. I mean, they say like they have these popups, but you can't really buy liquor online. So I guess it's. Is it? But, but gambling you can charge.
- [83:31]
A
You can. But I think you have to show your ID to the Delivery service. I've honestly, I haven't drank for seven years, so I actually don't know.
- [83:38]
B
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
- [83:39]
A
But I know that you. But yeah, but if it was an age gated system that was attributed to all things over the age of 18, I think that would be a lot easier for people to digest because then
- [83:49]
B
they'd be like keeping them safe.
- [83:50]
A
I'm proving that I'm over the age of 18 for, for like guns, you know, other things like that. It's when it's attributed to porn specifically that people have a problem with it. So I think that if we can could have some kind of nationally instituted device level or whatnot where it's age gated for all things 18, not for porn, that would make things easier for a lot of people. Also my, I had my friend Sharita Vil on and she suggested something that was the opposite that I hadn't thought of and she was like, why don't you create a space where like you're only able to access certain things unless you prove you're over the age of 80, 18. So like the, instead of like making websites adhere to age verification, you have all of the underage access, access like things that are safe for kids. Right. Like you can access all of these sites like cocomelon.com or whatever the hell and everything up to like a certain age. But then you can't get outside of this like Internet bubble that one is created unless you're over the age of 18. That also would probably be difficult to collect all of those sites that are appropriate for under age 18. But it's another way to think it
- [85:07]
B
should be on a government level.
- [85:08]
A
Yes.
- [85:09]
B
To be honest with you, because I feel like if it is a responsibility that everyone should be you know, age gated to some degree. Like it seems for all those things, you know, it feels like there should be, you know, we're getting passports and we're getting IDs and, and you're automatically giving your information to the government. Right. So is there a way to.
- [85:28]
A
I don't know. Yeah, I mean, because the thing is like people who use face ID to open their phone, which is almost everybody, guess who has your biometric data now? Apple. You know what I'm saying? And so if they could use that to apply to this age gating, then people wouldn't feel so concerned about giving their ID for that. The only other problem that there is is that yes, all of like the so called like legitimate websites Are complying. Like myself, like pornhub, like other. But the pornhub is just off the
- [85:57]
B
market in those states?
- [85:58]
A
In a lot of states, yes.
- [85:59]
B
Wow.
- [86:00]
A
But the problem is, is that there are a lot of underground websites that don't follow these rules that are out of the country. So they, you know, they are untraceable, unenforceable. And you are going to these, like, dark web people are going to these dark web websites instead, where there's all kinds of material there that is not consensual, that is not age verified. You know, when we shoot people, we have stringent age verification. Like, I have. I need your Social Security number. I need two forms of government ID with your photo on it. Like, you have to fill this model release out. Like, and then I have to comply with all of these other things connected to my website. Like, if you ever come and say, like, you want your content taken down, I have to take it down. Even if I paid you for it, it doesn't matter. I have to take it down at any point in time, at any point,
- [86:50]
B
20 years in future.
- [86:52]
A
Exactly. I. I have always done that. I've had some girls come back and ask me to take their content down, and I've always done it. But now, like, as a law, the credit card processors have. And this is one of the rules that payment processors have to follow. You have to, like, submit a report on a monthly basis about, like, whether or not people have, like, requested takedowns, content takedowns. You have to have a policy. It's like a whole thing. So all of the legitimate websites are following doing this, but then all of these other ones that people are being redirected to, because, of course, they're not asking for age verification. They're going there instead. So that's also an issue.
- [87:30]
B
Interesting. Yeah. Because you can't really enforce a federal law somewhere else or a state law anywhere else. Right. So if it's coming from, you know, what other country? China, India, Russia. Russia. Right. Like, you can't. Those sites will persist. And you can find those and.
- [87:46]
A
Yep, you can find those. And then. And there's nothing we can do about it.
- [87:49]
B
Okay, well, it's heavy stuff. What's something about porn or sexual health even that you've completely changed your mind on from when you were younger till
- [87:59]
A
now, how men look at women and how men. What the standard of beauty is. Because, you know, I grew up before the Internet and, you know, I saw the standard of beauty on covers of fashion magazines and ads and movies and, you know, and I thought that that's what you have to look like. That's what men love. They'll only love you if you look that way. When you come into the adult industry, you find that men generally don't care as much about that as we women think they do. And men, really, you can find, like, no matter what you look like, you can find a fan base face who will love you for the way that you look. And. And men care a lot. They're visual creatures, but they're also like, they love, like, that connection and like. So, for example, you know, after I had a baby, I mean, you know, growing up in la as a woman, I have body issues. You know what I mean? Like, who doesn't?
- [88:58]
B
Yeah.
- [88:59]
A
And then after I had a baby, I'd put on more weight. I put on £50. It never happened to me before, and I felt enormous. And the response from, you know, my fans was so, so incredibly positive. And they just, like, still thought I was beautiful. They still thought, you know, I looked great. They loved my curves, they loved, like, the extra weight. And it actually helped me love my body and accept me for, like, how I looked than I ever had before. And that was because of, like, this feedback from. From these guys. And if I hadn't had that, then I think I would have, you know, definitely felt a lot worse about how it looked. So. Yeah, there's just, you know, all different types, shapes, sizes, everything. Like someone is attracted to you.
- [89:47]
B
Yeah.
- [89:48]
A
No matter what. I mean, you know what's so interesting? I was actually talking to one of the guys, one of, like, the top executives at onlyfans@avn the other day, and you know that little people do the best on OnlyFans.
- [90:00]
B
Really?
- [90:01]
A
They make so much money.
- [90:03]
B
Really? Yes. Interesting.
- [90:04]
A
And people with disabilities have found a place in sex work where they can really thrive and where, you know, they. They come into, you know, they think that they're limited by their disabilities by being in a wheelchair, whatnot, and in a conventional sense, a lot of times that applies. But they come into sex work and they find, like, a whole audience that loves them for. For how they are, and they do extraordinarily well.
- [90:30]
B
Interesting.
- [90:31]
A
Yeah.
- [90:31]
B
Wow. What's a conversation or guest moment from your over 400 episodes that you still think about that maybe changed you in some way?
- [90:40]
A
Well, I mean, there's been a lot, actually, I think often about the people that I've had on and the things that they've said to me. And one of them that. That. That sticks with me is kisses, sins and she talked about how, how she embraces her feelings and her mood swings and how when she's sad instead of like trying to, to push it away. And I'm. I'm an avoider, right. Like, I want to avoid being uncomfortable in any way, shape or form. That's why I had a problem with alcohol. Yeah. You know, I would drink over being sad. Right. Like, and, and she embraced it and she's like, I'll put sad music on, you know, I'll cry all day and I'll really like, allow myself to like, feel those feelings and process those feelings and then I can come out of it and then I can like reset myself, but only because I embrace those dark moments and like that really, like, I think about that a lot. You know, I think about like, I needed to like, embrace my sadness like kisses, sins did, because like, then you can move past it because I think especially in this world, you know, we're sold all of these things that are going to make us feel better, that are going to make us happy and, and sometime, sometimes, sometimes you're just sad and that's okay.
- [91:56]
B
Yeah. Yeah. That's really, that's helpful. I think that's really helpful because I think we feel like we just have to keep going. I mean, especially. It depends on what you're. I think now more and more you get exposed to things that you want to be exposed to, but to some degree not like on social media. And so, like, I have a lot of like, people being. It doesn't matter how you feel. Like, just work, you know, like.
- [92:15]
A
Yeah.
- [92:16]
B
And sometimes you're like, you know, maybe. Maybe I should take it a beat and.
- [92:19]
A
Yeah.
- [92:20]
B
Like, be okay.
- [92:20]
A
Those motivational memes where. What is it? Pleasure. No. Comfort is a drug.
- [92:27]
B
Yeah.
- [92:27]
A
Is one of them.
- [92:28]
B
Yeah. That's the enemy of like progress or whatever.
- [92:31]
A
Yes, yes, exactly.
- [92:32]
B
Yeah. What fight do you think that the industry will still be having 20 years from now?
- [92:37]
A
Oh, man. I mean, you know, we're always going to be fighting the government in some way, shape or form. It just comes in waves, you know, I mean, I've seen it since I was a kid, you know, starting with the, the Meese Commission and the, the Tracy Lord scandal. And that's, you know, scary that your parents.
- [92:52]
B
I just can't even imagine that.
- [92:53]
A
Yeah.
- [92:54]
B
Yeah.
- [92:54]
A
And, you know, now, you know, we've got Project 2025, which, you know, they said they weren't going to come after born, but like, you know, I mean, we're seeing all. I mean, I think Arizona just came out The Arizona governor, I believe, said that he's proposing like a complete ban on porn. So, you know, I mean, we're always going to be at odds against people who are trying to shut down the industry. It's just, it's inevitable.
- [93:20]
B
But it's clearly one of the biggest industries that's changing the way we're like consuming content, like what format and all that stuff. That's crazy.
- [93:28]
A
Exactly.
- [93:29]
B
If you had one thing you want people to take away from this conversation, what would it be?
- [93:34]
A
I think, you know that the adult industry is, is an industry like any other. And you know that we are filled with wonderful people and you know, some of us are more wonderful than others, maybe put it that way. But you know, it's really, it's a business and people really see it as a business and, and they come in with a real entrepreneurial spirit and they're really just trying to like make it in this world just like the rest of us.
- [94:01]
B
Yeah.
- [94:02]
A
And they're just humans like everybody else. Else.
- [94:04]
B
So where can people find more about you, about your podcast, Holly Randall Unfiltered and all the other work you're doing?
- [94:09]
A
So you can go. I'm on Instagram at Holly Randall. On Twitter at Holly Randall. I am Shadow band, of course. So if you go into the app and try to like find my name, all the fake accounts of people pretending to be me will come up. But I won't.
- [94:25]
B
I'm too. So you're not alone, which is so infure.
- [94:28]
A
Oh my God. We didn't even get into catfishing. Yeah, it's just instagram.com Holly Randall and on my YouTube channel is YouTube.com Holly Randall Unfiltered. You can go to hollylinks.com and find, you know, links to all of my platforms.
- [94:42]
B
Great. So we end our podcast with four questions we ask everyone. It doesn't have to be about the industry or about. Can be whatever you want. Okay. What's something you know now that you wish you knew earlier in life?
- [94:52]
A
Everything happens for a reason. You know, I actually, actually started my podcast because I was fired from Playboy and Twisties all in the same month. So I lost like all of my work and I was really, you know, having this kind of crisis where I didn't know what I was gonna do and I thought, eh, I'll try this podcasting thing I guess. And it ended up being the best thing I ever did for so many reasons. Not just business wise, but personal growth. And if I hadn't been been put into that moment of Crisis. If that hadn't happened to me, if things hadn't suddenly become so hard, I wouldn't have done it.
- [95:29]
B
Interesting.
- [95:29]
A
And it's like I always try to remember in that moment when I'm going through something or everything looks terrible, I'm like, I can't see it right now, but on the other side of this, I'm going to be grateful that this happened.
- [95:40]
B
Yeah, yeah. Everything, everything happens. All your failures shape your future success. Exactly what is a non negotiable something you have to do every day?
- [95:49]
A
I have to talk to my daughter.
- [95:50]
B
Yeah.
- [95:50]
A
You know, even if, even if I'm out of town, I got to FaceTime her, tell her I love her and
- [95:55]
B
what's a life hack or health hack,
- [95:56]
A
you'd share with people a cold shower in the morning right after your hot shower. So what it does is it like spikes your endorphins. And I, I believe it also helps like reduce like inflammation. So I'll do a hot shower and then the last like 20, 30 seconds seconds, I turn the water on really cold and I stand under it and I go, comfort is a drug.
- [96:19]
B
Comfort is a drug.
- [96:20]
A
Comfort is a drug. And it wakes me up. And you know, it's been shown to like help cure depression and anxiety. And I feel like it helps, like, gives me energy and sets me up for the day.
- [96:31]
B
Yeah, yeah, there's some, definitely some data on cold plunges, cold exposure.
- [96:34]
A
Yeah.
- [96:36]
B
What if you couldn't be a producer, photographer, would you be?
- [96:41]
A
I'd probably be an English teacher.
- [96:44]
B
Yeah. That's what you were gonna do?
- [96:45]
A
Yeah, yeah, probably be an English teacher.
- [96:47]
B
Do you write now or do you.
- [96:49]
A
I mean, yes, I write press releases and copy for Instagram. But, you know, I, I don't know, I started on a book. I started writing some chapters for the book when my dad died because that was, you know, a very reflective moment in my life. But I haven't gotten back to it yet, but I will eventually.
- [97:05]
B
Actually, maybe you should write a book on the history of pornography.
- [97:09]
A
Yeah, I really want to do that. I want to do like a multi part series. Actually, I already have an outline and everything.
- [97:14]
B
Okay.
- [97:15]
A
So, you know, if you're an investor and you want to give you lots of money to film it, or you're from Netflix, hit me up.
- [97:21]
B
Call me. All right, well, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure having you.
- [97:27]
A
Thank you so much.
- [97:28]
B
Guys, if you made it this far, I need one favor. Go on your podcast platform, subscribe, follow whatever the platform tells you to do. The Reena Malik, M.D. podcast the reason for this is this is how people make the list. The top 10 lists of the Best Podcasts Ever listened to. It's based on how many people subscribe to the podcast and if you guys love this podcast, it's free, easy and helps support us so very much. And as always, want to take care of yourself because you're worth it.
- [97:54]
A
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