Pat (4:06)

I was at the county jail for 18 months. And for me, I would say that's where I got saved, because I really believed the Gospel and cried out to God, but I didn't know much about it. I knew something had happened to me and I wanted to share with other people. I didn't know how. Me and my wife were talking on the phone, and I'm asking her to send me some books about the Bible so I can get some background and kind of get a little knowledge under my feet, so to speak. She was surprised. And I was talking to her about the Bible and talking about the transformation that had happened in my life concerning God.

Nathan W. Bingham (4:43)

One man asked for books about the Bible. The other man received a Bible from a Christian inmate. Different stories, and yet God was at work.

Pat (4:52)

I believe that God is real. I believe that transformation is real. And I just want to educate myself as much as possible.

Stephen (5:01)

I wanted to understand who God was, this God who loved me enough to save me.

Nathan W. Bingham (5:06)

And the Lord was about to answer those desires as both men were transferred to an unlikely place, Bibb Correctional, where a local seminary would begin training 15 men. Behind those walls, the impact was immediate. The light of the gospel began shining in a place once filled with darkness.

Pat (5:29)

So when I Transferred here in 2016, there was always some sort of violence taking place. And by God's providence, that's where we were placed. We were placed in an environment where the gospel was needed.

Stephen (5:43)

I began to read John owen. I read B.B. warfield. So I called the Ligonier teaching series my fifth professor, because as I would have struggle with my lessons, I would be able to go to Robert Godfrey for Church History. And the way he broke things down, I was able to listen to it and supplement what I was learning. And it just all started to come together for me. And as I began to learn, I began to teach. And others become other inmates who had heard of me or knew me from before. They would say, hey, man, what happened to you?

Nathan W. Bingham (6:19)

By God's grace, head knowledge became heart knowledge, and the truths of Scripture were lived out. In this volatile environment.

Pat (6:28)

It'S inexplainable how those 15 men had an influence on other guys that were in there, and it transformed the entire bay, how they thought, because one of the things that was lacking in prison was for them to actually see people living out Christianity. We lived it out, and it went from those 15 guys on one side of a bay to us getting half of a bay, and then it moved into us getting an entire bay. That was never part of our plan. Only thing we knew is that we were coming here to go to school. After we graduated, we were supposed to leave. But God had other plans.

Nathan W. Bingham (7:12)

And as they learned, they began to teach. And as they taught, others asked, what happened to you? Both Pat and Stephen have participated in various Christian programs at Bibb, including Ligonier Inside. And in August 2025, they joined the first remote class of Reformation Bible College, a classroom with 14 students inside a bay in Bibb Correctional.

Pat (7:40)

When you do evangelism in prison, you're involved with these guys because we don't get to go home. So we get to see them 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And so that means that you're part of their life and they're part of your life, whether you want them to be or not. You don't get to be away from each other in prison.

Stephen (7:58)

There is this honesty amongst Christians. We have to be honest. You can't be a Christian in prison if you're not willing to admit your sins. You can't disciple anybody in prison if you're not willing to just own your sins and deal with it, there's no hiding. And I like the accountability of everyone in my business all the time. I like the accountability of. It's not as easy for me to drift into sin.

Nathan W. Bingham (8:31)

Prison is a mission field, and the Lord is redeeming and sanctifying a people there. What does true freedom sound like? Repentance, Trusting Jesus, laying down old weapons and taking up the Word.

Stephen (8:49)

At first, I didn't know how to live without a shank. I didn't know what I was going to do. And God said, give Me that he'd make a commitment to me. And the word of God is your sword. So it was a process of surrendering things that I was holding onto and sins that I was holding onto and trusting God. There have been times I thought I might not make it, that I would be killed or that I would die, or someone was angry at me. That was really dangerous. And I was just okay with it. I had Jesus. I was okay with that. I don't have to fix everything. I may never get out of prison. That's okay. I may die. That's okay. It's going to be all right. We're sitting here in this interview, and I'm just one man talking to another man. This could be anywhere in the world. I don't have to focus so much on my circumstances. So to be free in Christ means trust in the Lord and living a Christian life that honors the authorities, that doesn't fear those who would intimidate me.

Pat (10:05)

Now, even though I'm incarcerated, I feel freer than I was before. My body is imprisoned, obviously, but to get up with purpose every day, to wake up praying to God about my day that I have ahead of myself, that's a freedom that you can't really put into words. I know that I'm incarcerated. I know the effects that it has on people. Because I've been locked up 11 years, I know I've seen men give up and die, literally. He lost the will to live. There was nothing wrong with him physically. He didn't have a physical ailment. He just let himself go, stopped caring, and he just laid down and he died. He was in prison mentally and spiritually. I look forward to a day that I'm free physically. But even if I don't, it doesn't really matter, because a lifespan compared to eternity in heaven doesn't mean anything. That's true freedom.

Nathan W. Bingham (11:13)

And freedom in Christ cannot be confiscated. The Bible tells us, remember those who are in prison as though in prison with them. These men have been adopted into the family of God. They are our brothers in Christ.

Stephen (11:29)

It's very difficult to trust. A lot of it has to do with inmates in prison. They've either been betrayed a lot in their life or they have betrayed others a lot, or both. They don't trust themselves, which is a good thing In Christianity, you learn you don't have to trust yourself. You trust Jesus, right? They don't trust themselves. They find it difficult to envision themselves in a way that they should see themselves as being valuable, worthy, acceptable, forgiven. These sorts of things. And it's hard to trust that anyone, even God, could love them.

Pat (12:23)

I have to thank the Lord that he worked out a desire in me to just get up and keep living, keep pushing, keep working for the kingdom, keep wanting to see other men's lives changed in here. That's freedom. Because men can get out of prison and still be prisoners. You don't have to be incarcerated to be a prisoner. You can be trapped in your own head, in your own mind, so to speak. And so that's one area that we hardly ever talk about is the freedom mentally that God gives all of us. Because after a while, as a Christian, you know what the Bible teaches that we are foreigners in this place anyway. And so you stop caring about what other people think. I'm just gonna be a Christian, and that's freedom.

Nathan W. Bingham (13:19)

Dr. Nichols, welcome once again to Renewing youg Mind. And I just have to say, hearing from Pat and Stephen today, it was just moving for me all over again. It really was a transformative experience to spend two days at bibcorrectional.

Dr. Stephen Nichols (13:34)

Yeah, this is such a story of amazing grace. And just to hear them and hear their testimony, you just want to help them as much as you can.

Nathan W. Bingham (13:44)

I want our listeners to understand how this opportunity came about for rbc, because this new program builds on a lot of momentum that came before the college, including a program, Ligonier Inside, right?

Dr. Stephen Nichols (13:56)

Yeah, that's right.

Stephen (13:56)

Right.

Dr. Stephen Nichols (13:57)

Nathan, this is certainly not in a vacuum. This has been in the works for a decade or so. And it actually started at the very top with the director of Alabama Department of Corrections and with the director of the Chaplaincy program for the Alabama Department of Corrections. I saw him briefly a few months ago, the chaplain, and he said 10 years ago he started praying for a Bible college to come into one of Alabama's prisons. And here we are this fall, and really the unlikeliest of Alabama prisons, Bib Krach facility. So it started there, but we also have to go to Bibb itself. And at Bibb was Birmingham Theological Seminary. At Bibb was the chaplain, Mitch Halbert, who was moved into that area by God, felt called of God to take a Presbyterian church there in Brent, the town in which the facility is located. And he's got an ex military police background. And so he's in there as the chaplain. And then a real key to this is also the wardens. And you've met the wardens, Nathan, the head warden. He could have even either been a preacher or a warden. So God just brought together really a number of people and brought all these ingredients together to bring these programs to Bibb. And it started with Ligonier Inside, which is brilliant. It's the stringing together of 10 teaching series. And these guys really go at it, and they go through the questions, and then that's Ligonier inside one. And then they go on to a group of 12 teaching series that they're just intensely studying. That's Ligonier Inside. So there are some remarkable programs. God is doing wonderful things there at Bibb. And now we can come in as RBC. Very exciting times.

Nathan W. Bingham (15:41)

Help our listeners understand. So 15 men first came to Bibb to be part of the first program that was being run there. And we heard today how they had a portion of a bay and then they took over half that bay and then all of the bay. What does that mean? I understand, because I've seen these bays, but help our listeners understand.

Dr. Stephen Nichols (16:00)

Yeah, so typically we think of individual cells, and that's not how is structured. It's structured as one big room with 52 bunk beds and lines and 104 men inside one of these bays. And now you're bringing in these Christians that were pulled from various prisons across Alabama, and most of them converted in prison and just incredible stories of God's grace. And they're brought together, and this is the mission field for them. And it was very challenging, as you can imagine, for them in those early days. They're pioneers in every sense, and God was at work. And over time, that whole bay ends up becoming Christian. And then what do they do? They set their sights on the next bay. And the next bay. This is on the one half of the prison that was happening and remarkable things, and many were coming to Christ and all sorts of programs were in there. On the other half is the exact opposite. It literally is light on one side, darkness on the other. And of course, these men now are looking across to that side. And now that's the mission field. So once again, they hatch a plan, come to the warden, and they want to move over to there. And they go right into the middle, right into B dorm, and right in the middle bay in B dorm. And Nathan, this is just remarkable. That is where the RBC classroom is. And to the left and to the right are hundreds of men who are lost. And literally in the middle of that, because in the back of the bay is the classroom. So literally right in the middle is this light shining of the gospel in this dark place.

Nathan W. Bingham (17:50)

Praise God. As I was preparing to travel to Alabama, many verses came to mind. As I was thinking about what this experience might be like and meeting these inmates now brothers in Christ for the first time, One text was First Corinthians 6, where Paul says, and such were some of you, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. How can the story of BIB Correctional help Christians grow in their wonder and their amazement at just how amazing the grace of God is in the Gospel?

Dr. Stephen Nichols (18:26)

We need to remember this. Every conversion story is marvelous, if not miraculous. We move from death to life, from darkness to light, from the wrath of God to peace with God. That's true of every single Christian. What BIBB does for us is draw to the surface just the stark contrast, the polarity for all of us moving from being unregenerate to regenerate. And it reminds us that God's grace is truly amazing.

Nathan W. Bingham (19:01)

One of the reasons this experience was so moving for me was because these men fall into a category of sin that means that they're shunned from society. They're felons, so they're in prison. When you go to church on the Lord's Day, you're not sitting next to murderers because they've been arrested and they're behind bars. And so it was an opportunity to see sinners like us. Different category of sin, a more heinous sin than perhaps the sins that we have committed. But they've experienced that same grace of God. You mentioned that we're calling this program RBC Inside. This is the first remote campus for the college behind boz. Can you tell us just a little bit more about this program?

Dr. Stephen Nichols (19:50)

Yeah. Not only is this our first prison program, this is our first remote campus. And I just love the idea that it is inside bib. So what we do is we record our courses here on the Sanford campus, we put them on a flash drive, and then we send that flash drive to bip, and they spend Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday in class, and then they spend Thursday working on their assignments. We also have a library in there for them, and we are getting each one of the men their own theological library. So they are doing the exact same work that we are doing on campus. We even have these men. We have a house system at rbc, so we have Luther and Calvin and Edwards and Spurgeon House. We even have these men divided into houses. And, Nathan, this has had such a wonderful. Anytime I talk to our students about what's happening at Bibb, it just so encourages them, and they're wanting to pray for these men. The men inside Bibb are wanting to pray for our students here. So it's just remarkable even to see how that experience, which is huge for these men at Bibb. You know, you and I spent quite a bit of time in there and we had some downtime, or we're just sitting with them, just talking. And one of the young RBC men just stood there and just shook his head and said, when I first entered prison, I never ever in my wildest dreams could imagine I'd be sitting in this classroom and being a Bible college student. So we want this to be for these men at Bibb. But the remarkable thing is the impact it's having on our campus and how this is actually enhancing our student experience, because we're doing this so God is always at work. But when you see it so visibly and manifested so palpably, it's just a true blessing and an encouragement.

Nathan W. Bingham (21:46)

And we hear these men refer to Bib as Blessed Bib because for some of these men, death row was a possibility that their sentence might not have been life. And they see God intervening, not giving them a death sentence, but giving them a life sentence. And then in his providence, having them transferred to Bib Correctional and meeting some of these Christian brothers who shared the gospel with them. They could have been executed and gone to hell, but the Lord spared them, sent them to bib, Blessed Bib as they now call it. They heard the gospel and the Lord was at work, and now they're redeemed, trophies of God's grace.

Dr. Stephen Nichols (22:25)

A number of them actually express their thankfulness to God for bringing them, because if they had stayed on the outside, they would not have come to Christ. And God brought them to this low point and shed his mercy upon them.

Nathan W. Bingham (22:40)

Ligonier and RBC share a campus. And so when the new academic year comes around, we see those freshmen on campus and they're a little nervous as they're about to start classes. What is the sense from these inmates? Are they nervous about this four year journey they're about to begin?

Dr. Stephen Nichols (22:58)

You know, I ask them, what are you excited about and what are you afraid of or maybe a little anxious about? Well, 13 out of 14 said studying Greek. And I said, well, you have that in common with a lot of seminarians. But then almost to a person, Nathan, they are afraid of disappointing people. They're afraid of disappointing the chaplain who's just poured into them. They're afraid of disappointing us at rbc, that they won't be up to the task or maybe family that is supportive outside. So that was just very touching. And it also just showed me that they recognize this is going to be a challenge for them in many ways. College is difficult, and then you throw it within this context, and there's so much that's out of their control, their time during the day and so forth, that this is going to be a challenge. And they're aware of it. But that was something that they all shared.

Nathan W. Bingham (23:54)

We'll talk a little bit later about how you, as a listener, can financially support this effort. But I'd also encourage you to pray for them. As Dr. Nichols said, it is a difficult environment, a lot of chaos, oftentimes to be able to study and to learn. So please do pray for these men. Dr. Nichols. While we were there, we attended a chapel service. 200 men gathered together, all from different walks of life. They led the service. But as I looked around, you see these men, all different walks of life. They were in the same uniform and they were praising the same Jesus that you and I sing praises to every Lord's day. It was such a wonderful experience. And you had the opportunity to address the men there in chapel. And I just want to share one clip from that.

Dr. Stephen Nichols (24:41)

So we strive by grace, not so that we can be exalted as the winner of the race and get the crown. And not for our glory, not for our legacy, but because it's about the gospel and because it's about people. I'm going to speak directly to the RBC students. I want you to work. I want you to work really hard. I want you to sweat while you're trying to learn Greek. I want you to be nervous the night before an examination. I want you to wonder if this paper is going to be any good. I want you to work. I want you to strive. You may want to say I worked harder than all of them, but it's God. It's God's grace. It's a beautiful thing, isn't it? When we are dependent on God's strength and grace, and we see it and we know it. I want that to be true for you. But I want this to be true for you RBC students. Because the gospel matters. And I know you know that. I know this is your mission field. And I know you know that Jesus Christ is the answer. And I know you know that every single life in here matters. And that's why God's put us here. There's going to be an eternity, and a lot of this stuff that's on the horizon right now, it's going to turn to dust, it's going to fall away. There's only going to be a few things that matter, the eternal things. That's what Paul wants us to live for. Speaking to those men at BIB is really one of the most humbling experiences and also just true honor. But you can sense that God is at work in the lives of those men.

Nathan W. Bingham (26:44)

One of the surprising delights of my time there was how these men would end their times together, singing the doxology acapella. And you just see in their eyes, hear in their voices how much they love the Lord and are so aware of his grace in their life. Dr. Nichols, what is your vision for RBC Inside?

Dr. Stephen Nichols (27:09)

We hope that BIBB is a pilot program. We'd like to see RBC in other correctional facilities. In fact, we're scouting out two locations this year, and just please pray for that as potential. But we'd like to move beyond Bibb and have more remote campuses across the United States and correctional facilities.

Nathan W. Bingham (27:29)

How can our Renewing youg Mind Listeners support RBC Inside?

Dr. Stephen Nichols (27:34)

First, pray. Pray for these men. Pray for their perseverance through the program. Pray for their gospel witness. Pray for the logistics. It's challenging. So please pray. Pray for us at RBC that we honor and serve these men well. And then secondly, all this is funded. We strive without compromising at all the quality of the education they're receiving, but we're really striving to control costs for this. But we do need your support for RBC Inside.

Nathan W. Bingham (28:04)

If you would like to support RBC Inside, any gifts you give before midnight tonight at renewingyourmind.org or when you call us at 800-435-4343, we'll go directly to this outreach within Bibb Correctional, and as you heard from Dr. Nichols, an initiative we hope to expand to other facilities. Dr. Nichols, I consider it a privilege that I had this opportunity to meet these men, to get a taste of what life is like behind bars and to see the transforming work of God in a way that I hadn't before. I do hope that this episode has given our listeners just a taste of that as well. Do you have any closing thoughts for our listeners today?

Dr. Stephen Nichols (28:45)

Yeah. One conversation I was having with Stephen, he just sort of paused and he said, isn't the doctrine of union with Christ a beautiful thing? And I thought, what a transformation in the life of this man. And it is a beautiful thing, Nathan. We are united to Christ. And because of our union with Christ, we are united to each other and some of our brothers and sisters are in prison.

Nathan W. Bingham (29:12)

Dr. Nichols, thank you for your work and that of the faculty with RBC Inside. And thanks for being in the studio with us today.

Dr. Stephen Nichols (29:19)

My pleasure. Thank you.

Nathan W. Bingham (29:28)

You can support RBC Inside when you give a gift before midnight tonight@renewingyourmind.org using the link in the podcast Show Notes, or when you call us at 800-435-4343, know that your support is going to help the work in Bibb Correctional and our plan to extend this program to other facilities. This week, you heard from Michael Reeves and those great Reformation truths that were rediscovered in the 16th century. And today, how those gospel truths are at work behind bars. Well, how did the Reformation begin? Was it a hammer in the hand of an obscure Augustinian monk? Or perhaps a lightning bolt? That'll be Monday here on Renewing youg Mind.

Stephen (30:16)

Sam.