Melanie Ladigo (3:14)

I feel like, you know, when I first learned about Rai, the whole reason I took that first course, which was called Rai 1 and now is called Rai Foundations, the whole reason I took it is because I wanted to be able to do exactly that. To say, this is what Rai is. And I took this rich 60 hour course with all these other passionate people that were in early childhood. And I got to the end and I felt so filled up and I still could not say what it was. And I really think it was the years that I spent working in the office as the person who would answer the phone or I used to say I was the educarer@educarerrai.org and I really got practice in talking to people about it and saying what it is. It kind of changes every time depending on who I'm talking to. But essentially, you know, RAI is an organization that teaches parents and professionals how to have respectful, reciprocal relationships with babies and toddlers, children 0 to 2. And the more I talk about it, the more I realize that RYE is. Well, the name of it itself is Resources for Infant Educurers. And that's a big mouthful, but it simply means that the organization itself is meant to be a resource for what Magda Gerber called an infant educarer. And she called it that because we care while we educate, and we educate while we care. So the organization is meant to be a resource for people who practice this educaring approach or want to.

Janet Lansbury (4:47)

Want to develop the kind of relationship with their child, a lifelong relationship that begins at birth. They want to be able to bond and they want that trust between them and that respect that I think. Well, I originally thought, before I discovered this approach, I thought that was something that happens later when they're talking and you can do things together and.

Melanie Ladigo (5:09)

Right.

Janet Lansbury (5:10)

Play together in a way that to me meant playing together, which is just where they're able to participate in the way that you'd expect it to be more mutual. But then what RAI taught me or what I learned in that first RAI class with my three month old and just observing her was that she had all these thoughts and all of these ideas and had all this stuff going on inside her that I had not realized could possibly exist in a baby. And I wanted to know about that and I wanted to discover that person and get to know her and bond with her. Well, really, I wasn't even thinking about bonding with her. I was just thinking, I really want to know more about what's going on inside the mind of this person. And that was the first time I realized she was a person. I mean, I would have thought that if somebody asked me, but to really see that, that somebody got their own thing going on that isn't just, you know, you feeding into them, you stimulating them and them respond, bonding, it's actually them having things coming out of themselves. And yeah, that was just fascinating to me. And I wanted to know everything about it. I wanted to know how to make this happen, keep happening, where I get to see this. And that became my invitation to learning about all these things that just were life changing.

Melanie Ladigo (6:34)

That is the perfect example, because I think when I say a respectful, reciprocal relationship, people are like, kind of, what is that? And that's exactly what that is. Having a respectful relationship with you is. I want to know about you. I want to know what's going on with you and I want to share what's going on with me. I'm curious about you and I don't want to impose things. I want to, I want to let things flow. And that's exactly what you found in that first class, that, that you are curious about this person and you, you want to let them unfold and share themselves with you. And, and it can start at, at the very, very beginning. I mean, that's the elevator pitch. So thank you.

Janet Lansbury (7:15)

Well, I wanted to hear what made you want to take that course. That's what I'm interested in, you know,

Melanie Ladigo (7:20)

so when I first started being interested in young babies, it's because I, I took a child development course and I learned about brain development. And it's kind of like you said, if someone had asked you if she was a person, you'd be like, well, yeah. And that's how I felt about brain development. It was like, well, of course babies aren't mini adults and their brains develop and change over time. But when I realized how much their brains change and how that impacts their behavior and how that could impact a parent's relationship with their child, I thought, this is what I want to do. I want to teach parents about this. And I was, you know, I was a baby myself. I was like, not even 20. And so I thought, let me go back to school, let me learn about child development. And oh, no, I'll work in a childcare center so that I can have some, quote unquote, real life experience working with babies. As luck would have it, I landed in this infant program that was very rye influenced. All the teachers in my classroom had taken that training. The toddler directors, the infant toddler directors had taken. Even the center director had taken this training. And I walked into this room with 12 babies and felt peaceful. And it was. It was kind of surprising to me how peaceful it felt. And I slowly started to work there. And every now and then, I would start to get a little bit of a correction. Like a child would start to cry, and I, you know, start to jostle them. It's okay, it's okay. And someone would come over to me and just say very gently, like, it's okay that she's crying. You know, we're here with her. There was a time that this baby was climbing up a slide. She was trying to go up that incline, and her feet kept slipping. And so I came up behind her and I just kind of put my hands under each of her feet so she could push up. And she got all the way up to the top, and she had this big smile on her face, and I had a big smile on my face. And a teacher came down and sat next to me and said, you know, I saw what you did there. And I was like, yeah, like, maybe this wasn't a good thing. And she said, no, it was wonderful. But how do you think she's going to feel the next time she tries to go up that slide and you aren't there? I mean, she didn't know you were helping her, so she. She thought she did it by herself, but she really did it with you. And it kind of got me thinking about the baby's experience. And she said, and, you know, did she look frustrated? Did she look like she was having a hard time? And I realized, no, she was. She wasn't asking for help. And I started to get curious. So I would say, well, how did you learn of this? Or, what is this? Why? What is this approach that we're doing? Why. Why can't I distract a crying baby? Why can't I help her climb? And they would say, well, it's rye. It's rye. And I was like, okay, I really want to know what this is. So. So they said, well, go take the training. And so, yep, I went to Silver Lake and I met for weeks and weeks with a group of people that were passionate about rye and about early education. And I felt filled up And I felt so excited, and I. I felt like I understood it. But like I said, at the end of that time, I still couldn't say exactly what Rye was. I just knew that I was seeing babies in a different way, and it felt really good.

Janet Lansbury (10:40)

I think you. You spoke to something, though, in your description of your time at the childcare center. That is exactly it. It's that the baby has a point of view. The child has a point of view, actually, and sounds like the carers were communicating to you without you maybe even exactly knowing why. That seemed different and interesting to you, but it was like they were kind of speaking for the baby. And that's, you know, like, what I saw in my daughter, that she had her own point of view there. And that's really also, I think, could be something of an elevator speech, that a baby has a valid point of view that's worth considering and taking interest in and wanting them to express to us as much as possible so that they can share it, so that they can feel seen.

Melanie Ladigo (11:29)

It's interesting that you. That you say that about being seen. It's exactly that. Because, you know, you do end up giving this elevator speech here and there throughout your life. And during COVID I taught these classes, I taught these Rye parent infant classes outside to do it in kind of a safer way. And I was teaching a lot of classes because parents were really, especially during that time, really looking for connection and support. You know, I was teaching, like, six days a week. And so I was going to the grocery store and buying a lot of bananas, because if. If you've been in a parent infant class, you know, that that's pretty much the snack that we usually serve is bananas. And I was going to this grocery store pretty regularly and only buying bananas. And finally, one of the checkers asked me, like, okay, what's up with the bananas? Why are you here, like, three or four times? And. And so I said, oh, it's for this class that I teach. She's like, what kind of class? I was like, well, it's this class where I help parents, you know, slow down, figure things out on their own and really help parents, you know, really see their children. And two checkers over there's this gentleman who, like, kind of slammed his hand down on the. On the register and said, I wish my parents had taken that class. They need it right now. And it's an adult, right? And it's exactly that. We all want to be seen. We all have a point of view. Even. Even young babies want to be seen yes.

Janet Lansbury (12:59)

They don't know they want to be seen. But to be able to invite them into the world, being seen is incredible. And then that only continues. It's like once we see them, we can't really unsee them. I found, you know, as people, I mean, it took me a long time to really like, get it, get it, get it. That, oh, that's, they're really like, that's like really a person. But once I did, you know, you can't go back. It's so interesting. Like every baby you see, you're seeing into them. And one thing I really wanted to talk with you about, actually you brought it up when we first connected about doing this together. This is for parents. This sounds like we're talking about how to do the best thing for babies. But what this is really about and why I share it so passionately is for us, because when we see the person in our baby, then we get to be seen by them as ourselves. We get to be ourselves. We don't have to, you know, say the right things and do the right things and be this perfect parent that maybe we saw on Instagram or what we think we're supposed to be. We get to be a whole person too, in the way that we engage with our baby and have boundaries and, you know, obviously we have to give up a lot to be able to care for the needs of a baby, but we're doing it as ourselves. We're not having to go in there and, you know, quiet them down and jack them up again to get excited. We can really engage with them in a way that's so comfortable and easy. And therefore we end up engaging with them a lot more than we might if we thought we had to do it in some performative way. To me, that's the beauty of this, how it changes our experience. Not only making it easier because we're letting our child do all these things that we thought we had to do for them, like get them up the slide, get them to calm, calm down. We thought those were our jobs. And when we let go of a lot of those things and are able to more be present and receptive to who is this person, it just takes this whole load of work off of our plate.

Melanie Ladigo (15:10)

It so, so does. When I first started working at that childcare center, I was only working like six hours a day. I was like a super part time person. And I found myself going to the office saying, like, hey, if you need anybody working extra hours, and I didn't really have time. I was going to School. But I just. It felt so good to be in the classroom. It felt so good to be with children in that way. You know, just last week I had some people come and observe one of my classes. And it was actually, it was kind of a chaotic class because I have a beautiful space where I teach out of my home, and I have a lovely play space that opens out onto a deck, and we usually take advantage of that full space. But the week these people came, it was raining, and so we had the door closed. So I had seven very active toddlers in a space that's about half of the space they were used to having. And it was a busy class. You know, children were climbing and sliding and throwing balls and actually moving a little furniture here and there. They were, you know, sharing toys, taking toys. It was. It was busy, but it wasn't stressful. And all of the parents were able to just sit back and simply watch and maybe have a little conversation on the side here and there. And we wrapped class, and before even the last parent had left the space, my observers were like, the parents are so relaxed. Did you see, like, they were climbing to the top of that piece of equipment? How is that safe? How did they feel? Calm. You know, they just said, like, what a gift to parents to be able to just to sit back and have confidence in their children's abilities. And, you know, I talked about how it's not that we just suddenly landed here. You know, it's a process. And I walked them through how parents slowly start to develop this kind of muscle of trust, but by observing their children and looking at them as they struggle through something or as they attempt something they've never done before, you know, you're still going to come close, but you're going to let them do it. And the more you start to see how capable they are, the more you can relax and have that trust. I truly believe that is the biggest gift that RAI gives to parents and to children. That trusting relationship and that. That peacefulness that you can not all the time. Right, but. But it's your baseline.

Janet Lansbury (17:43)

It's your baseline, exactly. It's that peace that you felt when you first walked into that child care center and. And saw the babies. And it was almost jarring to you. You know, why are people not, you know, working so hard, trying to keep everybody happy? Because it's like, we're re understanding happiness, what that is. And happiness for babies is being allowed to be where they are in development and be able to be kind of struggling to do things that they may not achieve that time or the next time, but one day they will, you know, and to know that that's not a negative thing, and to be able to see when a child is working on something how positive that experience is, it's not just positive that they got to the end and solved it, but that they're. They're able to be in the middle of it. And getting comfortable with that as a parent, which is no small thing, it takes us all the way through life with our child. You know, I could say with children as adults, it takes you all the way through the college applications and the, you know, career decisions and the disappointments and the heartbreak of relationships. And it helps you help your child through all of these situations and gives them this sense that life isn't always easy, and sometimes it's very hard, and it doesn't feel good when you're in the middle of that sometimes. But you're gonna be okay. You know, we could tell kids that till we're blue in the face, but they have to experience that.

Melanie Ladigo (19:17)

Yeah. And the connection. It's being seen in your struggle. You don't have to be rescued from your struggle, but just having someone see and acknowledge it and say, it's okay. I mean, I had. I had that exact experience as an adult just a few weeks ago. Someone asked about something I've been struggling with, and. And I. I said, I really don't know. And they said, it's okay. And it was like a little. A little crack opened up in my heart because it's like. Right. I don't have to have it all figured out. I mean, and that. That kind of goes back to what you said about what it gives to us as adults when we practice this. You know, watching a baby struggle and not get there. And sometimes they struggle and there. There is no angst. Right. They're just like, that baby that was going up the slide, she was just working on a problem, and she hadn't ascribed any kind of angst or worry to it. And so it's kind of like a reflection for myself. Not every problem needs to be quite so stressful.

Janet Lansbury (20:20)

Yeah. And I mean, I would say for the baby, that wasn't even a problem. That was just the situation in front of them that was interesting. You know, they were just exploring a situation that they were in. And, you know, as parents, we look at. We are adults, we frame it as, oh, there's a problem, and hopefully they'll find the answer, and they're worried. All these things that we project, I mean, I'm guilty of all of this still, but I catch myself now. I'm able to hear those voices and go, okay, that's you. But let's really see where they're at with this, you know, and when they do get upset and cry, oftentimes it's very much about them being tired or something else. I mean, when they're very little, they're learning that they can manage things and that we are there and that we support where they are right now. You know, as much as we try to do that. I just wanted to get back to one thing you said about. It's not always easy though, because it definitely isn't. I mean, being a parent or working at a childcare center, it's very draining and exhausting, you know, physically and emotionally and everything else. But imagine if we could also find areas of our day that refuel us, allowing us more of that peace. And that's the observation part of this, where you're seeing and you're enjoying the challenge of accepting and appreciating where your child is on a particular day. And then maybe you are seeing them achieve something they've been working on and all of these things that to me would have been unnoticeable, not something to cherish. They become little wins in the day that kind of get you through a lot of the other stuff or help make it a little more palatable. But there's still going to be days when it's just impossible and hard to be unruffled and all of those things.

Melanie Ladigo (22:09)

Yes, I definitely say that this work makes parenting or being with children easy. Er, but this is human relationships and we all get tired and we all get overwhelmed and we all have days, babies included, where things just aren't clicking the way they need to click and we don't always stay in connection. But when you have this framework to fall back on, there's more opportunities to catch those moments because you're looking for

Janet Lansbury (22:34)

them and just being able to be. To be able to, like, admit you're in the struggle. I mean, this is one of the things I started doing with my children. If there would be a, you know, a diaper change or something, that was just seeming impossible and, you know, they were pushing back and it just wasn't working. And I was trying to do all the things, you know, be respectful and slow it down and let them be a part of it and they just weren't having it and just say, being able to say, which I did from time to time. This is a really a disaster. We are just not working together here. This is awful what's going on. But to be able to throw your hands up and go, all right, you know, sometimes we're just not going to get along very well.

Melanie Ladigo (23:23)

Well, and that's such like a real thing. And it's a reset. It's like a discharge for you. And it's authentic with them. I think it kind of brings you both back to the moment. Right. Of connection. And then maybe it'll work, the diaper change will flow after that, maybe not. But you've had that moment of connection. Yeah.

Janet Lansbury (23:42)

You've put it out there and you've released yourself of this thing of, oh, I gotta pull it together and I gotta get this working. And all that tension that we do to ourselves, you know, because we think that's our job. And our job is to be ourselves. Our job is to let our babies be themselves and give ourselves permission to be who we are. And you know, I loved Magda Gerber's thing of, you know, it's two in the morning and you're going in for that feeding or your toddler woke up and is having a bad dream. You don't have to come in perky. You get to be your tired, grumpy self. You know, you don't want to try to take it out on them. But we get to be exhausted. And what is it

Melanie Ladigo (24:25)

just like how you would be in any other authentic relationship. Right? Like if you have a house guest who's like, I need this and I need that. You're not going to go in. Here you go. You know, you might be like, what is it this time? And just be real. Like it's two in the morning, man. Let me. Here's your water.

Janet Lansbury (24:44)

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Melanie Ladigo (27:36)

when you said free to be ourselves. Like I think about the reflection a lot of parents have about the impulses that come up for themselves. And the thing that Rye gives you is the opportunity to pause and choose. Do you want to react or respond? Because a lot of our reactions are like, you know, kind of knee jerk from the way we were raised or the way society tells you that we should be with other people. And you know, I'll never forget this one mom. She had a really powerful daughter and her daughter knew her mind. She knew what she wanted to do and how she wanted to do it. And her mom loved that. Except for when she got in the rocking boat and wouldn't let anybody else in the rocking boat. She wanted to be in that boat by herself. And you know, it's Built for multiple children. And so that mom had the hardest time with her daughter saying no to other children, getting in the boat. And, you know, I talked to her about it, and I said it's perfectly fair for her to want to be in the boat by herself. I would want to be in the boat by myself sometimes, too. And we want her to be able to notice what that no is doing to other people. And after a couple of times of this, I noticed that she was crying a little bit. We talked about it, and she said, I realized, like, I feel like I always give up what I want when someone else wants it. And I don't want that for my child. I want my child to decide if I want to be the only person in the boat. I want to feel comfortable being that only person in the boat and not feel like just because someone else is saying I want it too, that I have to automatically just acquiesce and let someone else in the boat. Yes, I want you to be someone who's out in the world, who's kind and who shares, but I also want you to be someone who can take care of your own needs.

Janet Lansbury (29:32)

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I don't think I would keep the other kids away, though.

Melanie Ladigo (29:36)

I mean, no, I didn't keep the other kids.

Janet Lansbury (29:39)

I would. I would be there spotting. And, you know, first of all, I can totally understand wanting to be in the rocking boat alone because somebody moves it every time. You're just trying to get balance and in it, and then somebody else, you know, changes that. You know, you're not going to feel any kind of sense of control. But I think, like, very much allowing that point of view and encouraging that point of view, I would still allow the children to decide for themselves if they want to go up against that. And if they do, I'm not going to let her push them off. You know, I'm going to have my hand there so she can't hurt them or physically keep them from getting in. For me, the idea is that, yeah, your point of view is valid. So are these other children that want to get on. I'm not going to help them on. I'm not going to help you hold onto it, but I'm going to allow the children and you to figure that out with me. They're keeping everybody safe.

Melanie Ladigo (30:27)

Just keeping everybody safe. And sometimes translating. I hear you saying no, and I hear you saying, you really want to get in the boat with her. I hear that and I see their space. No, I'm not going to let You, I'm not going to let you push. You can keep telling her no, it's okay.

Janet Lansbury (30:42)

Yeah, but you're neutral. That's the hard thing. I think that's the hard thing for parents, especially if it's their child, if their child is one of the two children. Like, how hard is it to be neutral? But that's what we get to practice with this approach. And it helps with siblings. It makes all the difference with siblings loving each other and getting along with each other, that they don't feel that we've made one into a villain and one into a victim in any situation or that we're more on somebody else's side.

Melanie Ladigo (31:09)

Because if you do come in and you litigate that, if you're like, now, now there's, there's space for two and I'm going to hold the boat and this person can get in, then you are putting a judgment on it and you are, you're arbitrating it. And instead what we're doing is teaching children to be wry with other children. We're letting them see the experience that the other person is having because that is where true sharing is going to happen. And for you to be a truly empathetic and generous person, you have to understand what it feels like to be selfish a little bit. Because spoiler alert, being selfish doesn't really feel that good. You know, when you're the only one in the boat and you're protecting that boat and nobody else can get in and it, you're not enjoying the boat

Janet Lansbury (31:53)

or maybe if they get in and then you say, well, I'm gonna get out, you know, then the people that were so insistent on getting in feel like, well, this is really, isn't that fun when she's not telling us not to get in here. You know, so everybody's learning something.

Melanie Ladigo (32:07)

Yeah.

Janet Lansbury (32:08)

About how to be in relationships. I mean, that's why we get the children together in these classes. And you know, most people don't have this of opportunity. I just have to say, most people, we do not have these communities, these like minded people available for playgroups and you know, parents are maybe working outside the home all day and they can't give their child these experiences of getting to socialize in a way where there aren't other parents like judging them and feeling like they needed to do a certain thing. And, and I think that is hard.

Melanie Ladigo (32:41)

Yeah.

Janet Lansbury (32:41)

But what this whole approach gives us is, well, it gives us first the understanding that for one thing, our relationship with our child is by far the most Important teacher of social intelligence, and that we have complete control over, at least on our end, how we're navigating that. And then what we learn from these classes and what we can bring to parents even that aren't able to be in a situation like that is that your child is very capable of social exploring and problem solving, and that maybe there are places you can allow them to do this and they can do it with their sibling as long as they have us to keep them safe.

Melanie Ladigo (33:21)

That is the thing. And, like, the number one question is, how do I do this when I go to the park? How do I do this with my friend when they come over? You know, my answer is, depending on your comfort level. Try. You say, well, let's see what happens. Or, I'm watching this, and I. I wonder what she'll do. I wonder what will happen if we. If we kind of, you know, just. Just let them kind of work this out. Sometimes, maybe, unfortunately, most of the time you're going to get somebody who looks at you like you are 100% crazy, like, I need to teach my kid to share, and this is what's going to happen. But you might get someone who pauses back and. And recognizes, oh, I could do this in a slightly different way. And that's how you can start to grow, you know, your network of. Of people. And it's low stakes. Only do it when you feel comfortable. But I've definitely had people who knew nothing about Rye, but had an interaction like that at a playdate or in a park and said, oh, I want to know more about that, because they see it out in the world, and I think that's what we need more of, is people modeling this just in little interactions.

Janet Lansbury (34:31)

Definitely. One thing I used to do a lot, and it actually helped me build confidence in myself with this approach with my children, is that I would just go up and be, you know, what I call the bodyguard. I just be up next to my child to make sure my child's not taking something away from this other child or whatever. But I would interpret like we do in class with my hand there to block things. Oh, you know, you really want what he's using, and you want to keep that for yourself. Of course that you brought that here just doing that thing of being neutral and allowing the children to experience the conflict. And oftentimes what happens is they do find a solution. It's not the one we would find for them where we'd say, okay, give them a turn, and now you do it. And, you know, oftentimes nobody wants it and they both go off and do something else, or they're, you know, interested in following each other or, you know, or maybe the child does give it to the other child or your child decides that they see something else interesting to do. You know, they. They find their ways of resolving it. And a lot of times it is a way that actually brings them both more together, in my experience. But, you know, not always. I think we have to be open to everything. I mean, that's the whole thing of letting kids problem solve, is that it's a big surprise how it works out every time. You can't dictate it.

Melanie Ladigo (35:48)

Yeah, you're right. It works out more often than you would expect, but it's not foolproof. We all make mistakes in our relationships, and especially young children are going to make a lot of mistakes because they're learning and they're processing and their brains are developing. And so it's so not a hands off approach. It's such an approach where you are really present and keeping boundaries, but also not solving.

Janet Lansbury (36:14)

Yeah. And what you find is that it does end up benefiting you because you have a child that's more confident going into situations and solving all kinds of problems.

Melanie Ladigo (36:24)

Yeah. The thing about that childcare center that I worked at, it was in a pretty affluent place, so it was from birth to school age. And it was so interesting to me because when children were ready to enter the quote, unquote, real world of school from this childcare center, they went in many different directions. You know, there were some that went to very progressive schools. There are some that went to very traditional schools, some that went to very rigid and academic schools. Some did unschooling. But the feedback that we would get from all of these different types of schools, it didn't matter, was they were like, oh, we are always so glad to get a child from this program. Because what this program was really focused on was exactly that, letting children figure out how to be in relationship with other children. Because, I mean, children, when their brains are ready for those academics, they need to have the social pieces kind of worked out. And that's what Rye really helps children do in those early years. But honestly, that's what we all need in all of our lives, is the social pieces worked out so that we can survive and thrive 100%.

Janet Lansbury (37:33)

Yeah. Well, while you're on this podcast, I know there are early childhood educators that listen and people that want to start programs in home child care or center based childcare, and maybe they'd like to attend The Rye Conference online, which is coming up in just a few weeks. And if you use the code unruffled, you can get $50 off your registration.

Melanie Ladigo (37:56)

Absolutely. It's a really wonderful opportunity to kind of dip your toe into all things rye, because unlike our courses where they're like, we're going to teach you exactly what the approach is, what happens at the conference is you get to really see all the many, many different ways that this work can be applied. So you really get to see, you know, how does it work in a classroom? We have one workshop about how do you offer free play but also be in alignment with any eyc, you know, documentation standards? And, you know, we've got, like, how do you solve conflict with. With rye and through play? And it's just like a smorgasbord of. Of hearing the different ways people can put this work into practice.

Janet Lansbury (38:43)

Yeah, I always think of it as, like, similar to a smorgasbord. Maybe it's the same thing, but I think of it like a banquet that you could feast on as a parent and as a professional in childcare. It's all there for you. And it's like, wow, you do feel very satiated at the end, like, because it's about us. It's about us and our children. So there's always a ton to explore. The theme this year is play. And you have Peter Gray as the main speaker, which should be phenomenal.

Melanie Ladigo (39:11)

I. I sat down to read his book, knowing that he was going to be coming, and I don't have a lot of time to sit down and read, but I got through half of his book, like, in one sitting because I saw so many threads, you know, just like Magda said in one of Rai's films, Seeing Infants with New Eyes. She said when she's talking about this approach to professionals, they say, well, what you're doing makes so much sense. I do it with a, you know, five year old or four year old or, you know, maybe a two and a half year old, as long as the child could spe. But I just wouldn't think about doing it with infants. When I read Peter's book, it was like, oh, my gosh, you are practicing Rye with older children. So it's just. It's really exciting to see that through. Line.

Janet Lansbury (39:53)

Yeah.

Melanie Ladigo (39:54)

The other thing that I tell people, especially, like, people who are not in a place where they have, like, a class that they can go to, where you feel like you're practicing this at home by yourself, it does offer a really awesome community. It's just wonderful to be around other like minded people that are that get it. And so even if you're coming online, you know, just connecting and just, you know, seeing that there is a wider world out there of people who see babies the way you do, I think

Janet Lansbury (40:22)

we're all struggling for that sense of community. I mean even before the pandemic, but certainly since then, seems like it's still hard to feel as connected to people and this is another way to do that. Love it again everybody. If you want to go to the Rise site rai.org and register for the conference, you can get $50 off with the code Unruffled and I hope it's a huge success. Until then, let's say goodbye and hopefully talk again very soon.

Melanie Ladigo (40:52)

I would love to thank you so much for this opportunity.

Janet Lansbury (40:56)

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Melanie Ladigo (41:03)

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Oh wow, that was easy.

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Melanie Ladigo (41:29)

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