B (4:42)

Great to be here, Chip. Thank you for the intro. And yes, we did go to the same high school. And we also happen to have English bulldogs, which is another thing in Gauntlet, so can't forget about that.

A (4:52)

100%. So. 100%. So we've, we've always been an English bulldog household. They're little, they're sleepy, we put up with the farting and the snoring because they're so damn cute otherwise. And. And Sam just got a English bulldog puppy. You're right. There are so many similarities here. Sam, in. In a couple of words, explain to people exactly what you do and why you create a bridge wave in your history and sort of how you got to this point.

B (5:19)

Yeah, sure. So, you know, pretty much in college, I guess I'll just jump back there. You know, I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do, but I love the financial tech industry side of things. So a little bit different than like someone who obviously loves the restaurant industry. I'm sure a lot of your listeners are. And so I jumped out of college right into the point of sale and payment processing industry with Spoton. Great company. You've had Scott Euclis on the, on the podcast in the past. So. Yep, was there, I was personally there for over four years, just basically being an account manager, helping people get started with Spoton, both in the sales side of things and then helping them throughout the onboarding process. And a little probably almost a year ago at this point, I decided to branch off and start Bridge Wave, where, you know, we're an independent technology company, so we not only partner with companies like Spoton, but like multiple point of sale companies and also payment processors. There are a lot of processing agnostic point of sale systems out there these days. So we just try to take a consultative approach with every restaurant we work with and help them really understand, like everything going on in their tech stack and figure out what system is best for them, not only cost wise, but feature wise and customer support wise in the long term.

A (6:50)

Yeah, and we're going to get into all of that. But getting to know Sam and watching his sort of evolution and watching him put this company out into the world has been really, really cool because he really does act as a consultant. And rather than trying to sell somebody on the platform that employs you, it's really going in and saying, okay, what are you using now? What are your bottlenecks? Let me see your situation, let me look at your bill. Let's get all into that and really find the best system, the best system for you. So Sam has helped dozens and dozens of members of the P3 mastermind. You guys know I run something called the P3 mastermind. I work with hundreds of restaurant owners all over the world. Um, Sam has worked with many of them to help them get onto the right platform, to get set up with the best processing rate out there and all of that. So Sam and I have worked very, very closely for a long time because it's an easy pass off when I know someone isn't with the best situation, when I know someone could use another set of eyes on it. This is not what I do, but it's very much what Sam does. And so he has come and spoken to the groups, he has taught masterclasses for the company. And I thought it was about time that we had him here on the podcast to have this conversation because there's something interesting that's happening now in the industry. So before we hit record, I was telling Sam, I said, this is sort of the shape I wanted to take because as I'm seeing it, this is what I think is going to happen or what I'm seeing happening. And I said, tell me if I'm wrong. And he said, no, you're not wrong at all. And I think that's a really interesting conversation. So here is what I think is happening. Everybody was on, you know, pre pandemic, this, these, these big old legacy systems. They were big, boxy, bulky, they were clumsy, they didn't, they weren't as nimble. Certainly a lot of the cloud based POS systems that came out. And so then everybody switched because they needed online ordering and they needed handhelds and they needed all kinds of other bells and whistles that these new companies have. And you guys know them all. And then everybody moved over to those in 20, you know, I'll say 2018 through 2022, there was a mass exodus off the legacy systems onto these new things. And what was happening then is now, as I'm watching, is that then the legacy systems have had to get better to compete with these sort of like new hot kids, the trendy software on the, the market. And so they have upped their hardware to be able to compete. But many of them are also, to your point, you know, sort of processor agnostic. The thing with the new companies, a lot of the big companies, the toast, the spot ons, the on and on and on, you have to use their payment processing, which is a key part of it. And they basically bill and say, hey, you got everything all under one roof. Which, which isn't a bad way of looking at it. You know, the Simplicity as far as billing and all of that is helpful. But now I'm watching a lot of people go, oh, but am I on the best system? And people are now looking at other things out there because they realize they have choices. Tell me, am I wrong or amend what I've said there?

B (9:54)

I mean, I think that was pretty much exactly right. Like, and there's, you know, pretty much, let's just say Aloha and Micros were the two big legacy players that everyone was familiar with. It's been in the industry. Yep. And so yeah, recently a lot of the popular systems out there cloud based and they did take on processing in house. Toast and Square probably being the two most popular systems that do that. Clover is another popular system, but it is, you know, somewhat payment processing agnostic, depending on who you work with. So yeah, I think that's definitely the case. And what I'm starting to see is kind of like a little bit of a shift back to being more payment processing agnostic as time goes on. Especially with you and I were kind of chatting briefly about AI has made software so much easier to develop now. And so what companies in the past needed to develop really great software was a ton of money, either from venture capitalists or going public and things like that. And that's one of the reasons why a lot of these big cloud based systems brought processing in house was because they made a lot of money on it too. In the past software has been extremely expensive to develop. You needed really phenomenal engineers and things like that. So I think it's going to be interesting now that the cost of developing software are starting to like drop to see how AI will change that and see how systems and companies will adapt. But I think there's only going to be more and more point of sale systems and software systems on the market. They're just going to become more and more verticalized as time goes on.

A (11:46)

So talk to me. So one of the keys out of this conversation as I want to help people understand because I think this is right where people are spending a lot of time worrying. But like, I guess the question I want to pose to you is like what are the things that people get wrong or have gotten wrong or what are the things that they're, you know, how are they thinking, how are they thinking wrong about their POS system, their processing? Like, like what are the areas where you think people are sort of not looking at this thing? Right. And, and how can you help them sort of wrap their head around it in a new way in a More productive way.

B (12:21)

Yeah, I tend to see kind of like two main types of people in, in the restaurant industry. From my experience, it's like someone who's super focused on the cost of their system and they almost don't care about any of the features or like, what they could be doing better to make more money with their POS and their technology and reduce costs and save time. And then there's other people who almost don't even think about how much they're spending on their PLs and, and have no idea. And. But they're, you know, more just wanting the system because of the features that they, you know, basically got sold on. And they have no idea what they're paying in software costs or processing fees or, you know, what other systems out there could even do exactly what their system is doing now. So I think it's just like a matter of people not, you know, I guess being flexible enough to really take the time to understand their system and work with someone who understands it too.

A (13:21)

And it's somewhere in between. Right. Because processing has gotten more expensive over the last several years, but so have the hardware, software costs, like the. Those recurring fees for all of the things you have there. That adds up as. That adds up as well. Like, that's another real expense that people are paying.

B (13:41)

Yeah, we've seen like, hardware costs come down over the years, but software cost and the margin that processors are making on processing go up over the years.

A (13:57)

So can I talk about the elephant in the room? Because I don't think there's any right or wrong way here, but I think it's a conversation. Let's talk about this idea of processing and passing it along to the consumer, because I know a lot of companies will say, oh, well, I'll get you onto this new, you know, if you join our thing. And actually processing is free. Like, you know, you don't pay processing and processing is not free. Nothing's free. Somebody pays it. Yeah, and what they really mean is like, we got a little button each press, and then that'll make sure that it always gets passed on to the consumer. And then you offer a cash discount if you, if you want to do that, which I have real. I'm old school and I feel like processing is just part of the, you know, the cost of doing business. It's like salt and pepper. You put salt and pepper on the table, you got to buy salt and pepper. You have to have the salt and pepper shakers filled. That cost has to be sort of considered when you're building the pricing of your menu because it's a hard cost that you have. So folding it into the cost of doing business is just, I think, part of what you have to do. But a lot of people have been convinced to then just pass on to the consumer. And now I will say one of the coaches who works with me, Sal Rotolo, he says, hey, listen, I love being able to pass it on to the consumer. Gas stations have been doing it for as long as I've been alive. Yeah, I don't care. It's just, it's part of the, you know, it's. It's part of the tax that they, that they pay, which I think is a compelling argument. I don't think there's any wrong way. I think it's just important to understand, to be deliberate about which way you're doing. So help me understand how you think about this.

B (15:28)

Yeah, it's funny, like, I try not to let my opinion on this, like, dictate what restaurants do that I work with at all. At the end of the day, it's their business, it's their clients, so they typically know what's best. But what I see is, like, personally, I'm seeing probably about 70% of the restaurants I work with pass a fee onto the customers, and that's only increased over time.

A (15:54)

Yeah.

B (15:55)

And so I. I think it's just a way to just basically protect their margins. And they're, like you said, there's a lot of, like, gimmicky ads out there and stuff, like 0% processing or no processing. And it's like, at the, like, it doesn't matter if you're paying for the fee or passing it on the customers. Like, processing companies are still making money on it. Visa, MasterCard, MX, they're all making money on every transaction. Like, there's no way to avoid that unless someone is just paying cash or, like paying through another method. So processors and all the card companies and all the banks are making money no matter whether you pass the fee on to the customer or not. It's just a matter of, like, how you want to protect your margins as a business. And it also depends if you want to do a surcharge or a cash discount, because those are two different programs. You have to make sure if you're doing either of them that you're doing it compliantly. Because Visa, you know, and MasterCard, other, you know, our networks have find restaurants. So that typically starts with like around a thousand dollars or so, and it can go up from there up to like $20,000. If a restaurant is ignoring their request to change the way they're doing it, passing on a fee.

A (17:13)

Yeah, and this is also, and it's also different state by state, municipality by municipality. For example, in New York City, we can't, you know, we can't add the charge on. It just has to be factored in. And we can give a cash, we can give a cash discount, which is the thing that partially drives me crazy because we spent so long. Certainly my living is spent trying to help people make more money. So why would we ever give a discount is sort of my, my what I always come

B (17:46)

from what I hear. Like restaurants that I work with using a cash discount almost never hear any complaints from their customers when they start doing it. I mean, I personally, I've never had a restaurant that I work with hear a complaint from their customer from doing a cash discount. I've actually had one restaurant come back and say we had a customer actually thank us for offering a discount for cash. Kind of shocked about that.

A (18:13)

So, right. Restaurant owners, if you want a steady, predictable flow of new customers, then check out restaurant scale secrets. They have a fully done for you marketing system that has helped tons of restaurants already, including more than 50 members of this restaurant strategy community. Fill tables, add tens of thousands to your top line revenue. If you're ready to take marketing off your plate and start filling tables, then head to restaurantscale secrets.com chip again, restaurantscalesecrets.com chip they have a comprehensive system of meta ads, Google Ads, automated emails, all meant to capture new customers and get those butts in the seats. Go find that link in the show notes to book your free discovery call today. Right. Well, because again, it's, they were sort of raised in the way that I was raised. Right. Which is that this is part of the cost of doing business. The three, you know, 2%, 3%, 4%, whatever it is, just gets factored into, into the way I price out my menu and I know I can hit all my margins and there it is. Like that's the price. Whether you pay with cash, card, whatever, like, doesn't matter. Like this is just how much, this is just how much it costs. But again, I also see for $2 million restaurant, by passing along the fees to the consumer, it's like, I don't know, 60, 70, $75,000 depending on what your processing rate is, that drops to the bottom line at the end of the year. So it's not a small number. I understand that, you know, $70,000 at the end of the year I think we can all do something cool with $70,000. Even if we're reinvesting that back in and you know, and getting somebody really good to, to run the place or to, you know, to help, you know, chew up hours or whatever. There's, there's good things to be done. So I don't want to minute, I don't want to minimize that.

B (20:05)

Yeah.

A (20:05)

Like I said, I just share the way I was raised in the way that I view it. But, but I understand that there are lots of ways to, to do it and it's, you know, it. Everyone has to make the decision on their own. But across markets, people are largely okay with this at this point.

B (20:19)

Yeah, yeah. I mean especially since the post pandemic era, there's been a lot of tacked on fees just for restaurants trying to like basically survive. Menu prices still look like, what's the word I'm thinking of feasible for customers to pay, but then obviously they tackle in some extra fees to try to. I mean, it's tough.

A (20:40)

Since 2023, restaurant prices have gone up approximately 32%. That came out just a couple of days ago. I saw it on Thursday morning. I forget who put out the study, but it was. Restaurant prices are up 32% in three years. It's incredible. And it's. That sort of increase is unsustainable.

B (21:01)

We're just.

A (21:02)

People are going to think twice about coming out, unfortunately.

B (21:05)

Yeah. And I think most consumers these days, like in customers, you know, I know personally, like when I go out to eat, I'm not going out to save money. So I don't care if there's an additional fee for credit cards or a discount for cash on the check because I'm not going there to save money. I'm going there because I love the food, I love the restaurant. I want to do something special for a night out. I think that's what most consumers are, depending on the restaurant type, obviously 100%.

A (21:35)

Talk to me a little bit. So people reach out to you and they say, hey, can you take a look? Let me know. Am I on the best POS system? Am I really getting the best pricing? You've said to me privately before that by going by consumers going with like sort of a third party, right. Instead of going to the POS company going to you, you end up acting more like a broker or an agent on their behalf. So you get to negotiate the new contract for free agency. Explain to me about, explain to me a little bit about how your relationship works with people.

B (22:08)

I think what you mentioned is probably the best analogy. Kind of like a broker, although I'm also there to help them navigate the setup of the system and then ongoing customer support. Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with, like, going directly to one of the big POS companies out there. I just think it's very hit or miss, depending on what rep they assign you with, if that rep is going to stay with them long term. And then obviously they're only incentivized to tell you what's good about, you know, their company. They may, you know, it depends on the rep. Are they, are they going to tell you what their system can and can't do? So I think it's important that you find someone in your corner who just really wants to put your restaurant first and figure out, you know, what systems can and can't do for you and be upfront with you about that.

A (23:05)

Yep.

B (23:06)

Yeah.

A (23:06)

And also it's really important.

B (23:09)

Yeah. And also that they really, truly know what the system can and can't do. There's a lot of integrations out there these days. Like, as we talked about software, it's only gonna get. There's only gonna be more and more software companies out there. But just because a company has an integration, does that actually work reliably? Are there any other things that can cause issues with that integration? Is it better just to use, you know, some point of sale companies have scheduling in house. Is it better to do that or is it better to use, like a third party?

A (23:46)

Yep.

B (23:47)

You know, there's a lot, lot to take into account.

A (23:49)

And you want to make sure that the, that it all integrates, that it all talks to each other. Because if you're using an expense management system or a profitability, you know, any sort of tool, you want to be able to. You want to make sure that it can pull all of the information from all the different areas that it possibly can. So it can get labor, it can get your inventory, it can get your, your play costs, it can get your daily revenue, receipts, things like that, and help you make. Help you make better decisions. Talk to me about. Talk to me about something that people get wrong. So this is how I started the conversation. And I want to be respectful of your time. I want to, like, give me a couple things that people are just, like, not aware of or like, again, that the way they think about it needs to change. How do you help people think about things differently?

B (24:42)

I think it just comes in phases of, like, what people think about what's going on with restaurant Technology like and I think we kind of started this conversation off that like there's two major players in the space, the legacy systems. Now there's you know, basically two, three big systems that everyone thinks are the best and that's like all there is out there. But there's a lot of really phenomenal niche systems out there depending on like are you like just a coffee shop? Because there's systems built just for coffee shops now. There's systems built just for bars and, and nightlife. There's systems belt just for you know, drive through restaurants or fast casual or full server. So I think that, I think people don't realize how many options there are on the table for them because they pretty much think, you know, there's only one or two of the big guys that I can go to who can meet all my needs from a software and technology standpoint. And it's really just starting to be not the case anymore.

A (25:46)

I love that you brought that up because there are systems out there that like the needs of a nightclub or like a, or like a brewery. It's a perfect example. Like so there are systems out there that are really built for breweries. Like breweries have like tons of tables, hundreds of people, thousands of people maybe on a Saturday afternoon are going to come and hang out and what they need, their needs are different than the coffee shop. To your point, you know, what the coffee shop needs is very different than what the fine dining restaurant needs. You know, I remember all these years ago even just going from you know, things that Aloha had fixed that micros didn't do so well worked for fine dining because your ability to, to do multiple courses, to type in an eight course tasting menu and how that, how you could arrange that in the computer system and how it spit out to the chef and to all the, the different stations in the kitchen. Like they're like different restaurants have different needs and I feel like too many out there trying to squeeze a square peg into a round hole.

B (26:52)

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Or they are using a system that can obviously meet their needs, but it's just one of the big guys that they thought was what everyone uses and so they just went with that company and they're getting killed on software and processing fees without realizing it. Yep.

A (27:09)

Amazing. What, like, what's the, like what's the way to get started to have a conversation like, like who should be reaching out? Right. So if you help people get onto the best possible system for them, get the best possible rate out there. Obviously it begins with a Conversation to see if there's even anything you can do to help because maybe you have the conversation. I know we've talked about this. You do, you have plenty of conversations. And you're like, yeah, it's great. I think you're on the exact right system and I'm looking here at your bill and I think your processing rate is pretty good. I don't, I don't think we can get much better. But sometimes there's nice, there's that validation that comes from knowing, like, okay, I'm where I'm supposed to be. But then on the other hand, you'll have a conversation with people and you'll say, oh, are you aware of this system or that system, part of that Specialized? Maybe somebody didn't even know there was some system over here that's really good for pizza shops or really good for coffee shops and all that. So tell me about how that conversation begins with somebody who, who reaches out to you.

B (28:07)

Yeah, typically, you know, I'll just do a phone call to get started with them, figure out kind of like, you know, what they're using for their point of sale integrations. Do they have a statement? Do they have a software invoice? Do they have like anything else in their realm that like the point of sale touches within their restaurant? And then also figure out like, how they're using it operationally. So, yeah, like to your point, I met with a few of your members in the past and some of them are using systems where, you know, they, they just can't get much better in terms of what they're using the system for, like software wise and integrations. You know, I just tell them that they're fine. So it's really just a conversation. Yeah. And then from there, like, obviously I'll walk them through if there are better systems. Like we could schedule a demo with any of these software companies. Point of sale companies get them custom rates and then go through all the fine details of like the implementation, the setup and all that. You could go, we could go on for like 30 minutes, an hour about all the little details about how to set them up. Right. For a good onboarding process. But that's like one of the most important things.

A (29:21)

Yeah, I mean, there's software and hardware out there. We always talk about the need to have and the nice to have. The POS system is obviously something you can't do without. You need to be able to collect revenue from your customers. So it really is the heart of your entire business. And I think there's a need Then to get that right, to not have the wrong thing in place, it's going to slow down ticket times, it's going to slow down your ability to get people in and out. It's going to be clumsy, it's going to frustrate your team that there's a way to make this seamless for the guests, seamless for the employee, you know, grow revenue, make more money, et cetera, et cetera. To say nothing of the ability to maybe save money when you can get, you know, somebody in your corner negotiating, you know, the very best possible rate out there. Is that that all fair?

B (30:12)

Yeah, fair. Fair to say. And I think what you do, Chip, is like incredible. Obviously I've been to some of your events in person and heard just incredible stories about people who are like about to sell their restaurant and turned it around once they got involved with your program and really did get, you know, 20% profits. And so that, that is not necessarily my, you know, area of expertise. I think what I do is help them optimize their system really well, like help them save time, make more sales. Whether it's, you know, implementing new technology like a kiosk or handhelds or self led ordering where guests can scan a QR and order things like that, that will dramatically save them time, increase their sales and then, you know, other areas of the business as well that the technology touches. But yeah, so I'd say that's kind of like where, where I fall 100%.

A (31:06)

Sam has been a key partner over the last several years and really helping so many of the members of the P3 mastermind. And he's right. He's been to almost every single one of the live events that I've run. And he's been a really great voice there in the audience and sort of talking to people on the breaks and through dinners and the parties and all of that. It's been a pleasure getting to know him over the last many, many years. I feel really strongly about this. I know trust is crucial. I know that people tune in here to hear what I have to say. And I really think carefully about the conversations that I have here and the people that I put in, in front of the audience and the sponsors, the people who sponsor the show, all of that, like they are tools that I would recommend no matter what. They are partners I, I send people to no matter what. Sam's one of those guys. He's a really good dude down to earth. I think you can hear that. I think you'll get that if you get on a Call if you have any question, if you've got any feeling like, oh, maybe I'm not in the right thing or maybe this sucks or I wonder if I can do better. I would urge you to reach out. So Sam, we'll put the link in the show notes, but where should people go to learn more about you?

B (32:21)

Yeah, so BridgeWave IO would be great. It's my website. I'm on LinkedIn as well. I can give you my cell. Obviously you have it to post here, but yeah, I guess last thing I would say and you kind of touched on it. Trust is key. I think as software becomes more and more abundant, trust will become more scarce. So you have to make sure that you have someone in your corner that you trust. Is really trying to figure out what your restaurant needs and what's best for your restaurant. Because every software company is going to have sales reps out there trying to sell you their software. And whether or not you actually need it or whether or not it's actually the best for you is a whole other question too.

A (33:05)

Yep, I think it's a really great place to end it. Sam, I really appreciate it. Again, we'll put all of those links in the show notes there. So you guys will be able to reach out if you have any questions for me. If you want to take this offline. Chip close.com it's always my email. C H I P K L O S E and I can personally connect you to Sam via email as well. Or if you want to just ask me questions before you reach out, totally fine. Anybody who has ever reached out to me knows that I answer each and every email that ever that ever comes in. Sam, I appreciate you taking the time. Thank you very much and I will talk to you.

B (33:37)

Awesome. Yeah, thanks for having me. Chip. Great to see you as always.

A (33:41)

Once again I want to thank Sam for taking time out of his day to sit and chat with me again. All of the links from our sponsors are in the show notes. All of the links to connect with Sam are in the show notes. Bottom line is if you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, there is a better way. Finding somebody. Having somebody like Sam in your corner can be incredible. Incredibly valuable. The game is changing yet again. If we thought it was from the legacy software to the cloud based solutions, now it's all changing again. You need the integrations, you need the very best processing rate you can and you need the hardware that will actually help improve your business. Not all restaurants are created equal. Make sure you are with the best system for you. As always, guys, I want to thank you for taking time out of your day to sit here and and listen to these conversations. I hope you get some value out of this. If you do, go to Apple Podcast, leave us a five star rating and review. Mostly I'm just asking you to let other people know what you get out of it, why you keep tuning in, get any sort of value. Go do that Apple Podcast five star rating review. Just let people know why you tune in. Appreciate it guys and I will see you next time.