1255: Skeeter Miller, Owner and President of The County Line Bar-B-Q Restaurant Group

Summary

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Restaurant Unstoppable Podcast #1255: Skeeter Miller, 50 Years of Building a Barbecue Institution

Episode Overview

In this episode, Eric Cacciatore sits down with Skeeter Miller, President and Owner of The County Line Bar-B-Q Restaurant Group, for a deep-dive conversation on building a lasting, soulful restaurant business. Celebrating 50 years in the industry, Skeeter shares the evolution of County Line from a humble, friends-owned joint to a regional barbecue institution known for its culture, longevity, and adaptive spirit. The discussion touches on everything from operational systems and franchising lessons to the role of advocacy and the evolving challenges of independent restaurant ownership.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Grounding Wisdom: “When You Think You’ve Got It All Figured Out…”

• Success Mantra
  • "When you think you got it all figured out, that's when you're gonna get kicked in the teeth."
    — Skeeter Miller (05:01, 06:43)
• Explanation: Skeeter stresses the need for humility and constant vigilance in the business; complacency is a precursor to getting left behind.
• Context: He recounts how periods of feeling “set” led to unforeseen obstacles like the dot-com and real estate busts.

2. The County Line Growth Story

• The Business Today (08:12)

  • Six County Line restaurant locations: Austin (2), San Antonio (2), El Paso (State Line), and Albuquerque.
  • Expansion into fast-casual (Flyrite Chicken, now closed), as well as mail-order barbecue with AirRibs.
  • Large footprints: Locations range from 200–400 seats, with extensive outdoor areas.

• How Skeeter Got Started (14:20–19:03)

  • Began as a dishwasher at age 21.
  • Quickly moved up the ranks, taking over a location after a chaotic turnover—"There was no paperwork to sign. There was nothing. I was now in charge. That’s crazy.” (19:09)
  • Introduced time clocks, portion control, and standardized processes to stop operational “bleeding.”

3. Scaling and Systematizing

• From Ad Hoc to Structured Operations (24:13–26:46, 39:53–44:05)

  • Instituted regular inventory, recipe standardization, and financial tracking.
  • Introduced monthly “manager finance meetings” in the ‘90s: Managers review their P&L in front of peers, driving collective accountability.
    • "After the first year that we did that, I remember putting an additional $500,000 on the bottom line." (41:44)

• Ownership Evolution (27:41–29:54)

  • Progression: Dishwasher → GM → Director of Operations → Vice President → Partner.
  • “Things were simple in those days. There was a lot of trust. We were honestly like a family.” (28:48)
  • Challenges came in implementing stricter guidelines, like ending post-shift employee drinking—faced heavy pushback ("the two week bitch factor") but stuck with it.

4. Growth Pains & Franchising Lessons

• Franchising Journey (56:17–64:01)
  • At its peak: ~15 franchisees including out-of-state locations.
  • Key mistakes: Choosing franchise partners for capital rather than operational experience; loss of brand control.
  • Takeaway: "If you're going to franchise, you need to franchise to somebody that's in the restaurant business and knows the business. And they have to be a good operator." (61:07)
    • Franchising changed the essence of their job: "You're no longer a restaurant operator. You're a franchisor. And that's a different game." (64:01)

5. Diversification and Resiliency

• Adapting Services (44:05–49:37, 53:14–57:06)

  • Grew through catering (County Line Custom Cooking), private events, and direct-to-consumer shipping.
  • Post-COVID: Private events and buyouts are a key revenue stream as walk-in traffic fluctuates.
  • Example: Created an event tent at the County Line on the Lake, now hosts 300+ private events a year.

• Embracing Change: Launched new concepts (Cannoli Joe’s buffet, Flyrite Chicken QSR), some successful, some not; learned from failure and market fit mismatches.

6. Advocacy and Industry Leadership

• Association Involvement (79:08–93:21)
  • Skeeter became deeply involved with local, state (Texas Restaurant Association), and even national advocacy.
  • Formed relationships with regulators and legislators to ensure small business concerns were heard and addressed.
  • Helped institute tiered health inspection fees, better suited to business size, and promoted “regulatory consistency.”
  • Advice to peers: “If you’re not at the table, you may end up on the menu.” (93:29)
  • Underscores the power of industry networks for support, policy wins, and crisis aid (e.g., pandemic relief).

7. Technology & Business Transformation

• Maintaining Relevance (99:24–116:09)
  • Migration from cash registers to modern point-of-sale (POS) systems (Toast), despite initial skepticism.
  • Upgraded Wi-Fi, improved website, started offering online reservations (Resy), and empowered social media “ambassadors” at each site.
  • “I’m not a micromanager…but things that are important, I will stick to my guns.” (52:35)
  • Maintains in-house accounting over outsourcing to keep transparency and close contact with reality—calls this practical for their size and culture.

8. Preserving Soul in an Industry at Risk

• The Importance of Connection

  • Restaurants must be the “third place” for community.
    • “We’re tribal creatures—we need human connectivity. It’s amazing the extent to which people are willing to sacrifice that for convenience, but it’s starting to come back.” (107:00)
  • Personal touches: Naming tables after regulars, honoring long-time customers, emphasizing staff and guest relationships.

• Skeeter’s Vision for the Future (120:04–131:22)

  • “We need soul. And it’s hard—it’s hard to expand and keep it.”
  • Prefers steady, responsible growth to massive scaling or private equity sales.
  • Long-term vision: Possibility of employee ownership (ESOP) to keep County Line culture alive post-retirement.
  • “If you sell the business to somebody else, they’re not going to have the soul or the heart that you have.” (126:19)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Humility in Business
  • “In the restaurant business, when you think you got it figured out, that's when you're going to get kicked in the teeth.” — Skeeter (06:43)
• On Employee Buy-In
  • “There’s a two week bitch factor for any policy change—then people fall in line if you stay consistent.” (31:39)
• On Growing Revenue Streams
  • “You can always make your business better.” (52:54)
• On Advocacy
  • “If you’re not at the table, you may end up on the menu.” (93:29)
• On Technology Adoption
  • “I may have a hard time with technology…these kids don’t. They’re in tune to the customer, entering orders without mistakes.” (100:32)
• On Preserving Culture
  • “All I can do after 50 years is be somebody someone could reach out to and say, ‘How did you do it?’ How can I have something like you have that has some body to it?” (120:52)
• On The County Line’s Essence
  • “It’s an institution…it’s a gathering place for friends and family, and new friends. A place you can gather—not everybody agrees, but you walk away and you feel good.” (130:57)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------| | Success Mantra & Tough Lessons | 05:01, 06:43 | | County Line Today & Historical Expansion | 08:12–13:26 | | Skeeter’s Start in the Business | 14:20–19:03 | | Operational Overhauls & Early Growth | 24:13–26:46 | | Monthly Manager Finance Meetings & Systems | 39:53–44:05 | | Franchising Experiences—What Works, What Didn’t | 56:17–64:01 | | Diversification: Catering, Events, AirRibs | 44:05–53:14 | | Cannoli Joe’s and Buffet/Buffet Lesson | 72:28–78:47 | | Advocacy and State/National Restaurant Associations | 79:08–93:21 | | Technology’s Role and Ongoing Evolution | 99:24–116:09 | | The Soul of the Business—Connection, Community, and Next Steps | 120:04–131:22 | | Final Wisdom and Legacy | 130:30–131:22 |

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Practical Takeaways for Restaurateurs

• Operational discipline (tracking costs, inventories, recipes) is the foundation for scaling and long-term stability.
• Leadership means consistency—policies only stick and improve culture when enforced uniformly, despite initial resistance.
• Franchising is not for everyone. Only partner with proven operators and understand you’re becoming a franchisor, not just a restaurateur.
• Multiple revenue streams (private events, catering, e-commerce) create essential financial resilience in volatile times.
• Regular, open financial communication with team leaders directly drives accountability and profit.
• Community involvement and advocacy pay off through access to resources, policy input, and crucial support in crises.
• Never sacrifice “soul” for scale—the intangible sense of care, connection, and place is your most defensible asset.
• Technology is a tool, not a replacement for hospitality. Use it to improve operations, not dampen the guest experience.
• Legacy is built on people—invest in long-tenured staff, consider long-term employee ownership, and guard your brand’s spirit.

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Closing Reflection

Skeeter Miller’s career embodies the journey from scrappy beginnings to institutional longevity—grounded in adaptability, deep care for people, and the fierce protection of restaurant soul. His story is both a primer in operational mastery and a powerful reminder that lasting impact comes from relationships, consistency, and showing up for your community—inside your walls and beyond.

“Continue the County Line. Love your employees. Take care of my wife.” — Skeeter Miller (130:30)

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Find County Line Bar-B-Q:
Website | Facebook | Instagram (Specific handles in episode notes)

For full notes and resources: restaurantunstoppable.com/episode/1255

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Transcript

[Eric Cacciatore]

A couple things before we get started today. First, thank you so much for showing up week after week making my vision for restaurants Unstoppable come true. Your downloads are allowing me to do this show the way I've always wanted to do it. Boots on the ground, word of mouth, leaders, referring leaders, giving the industry an uncensored, no BS platform to share their perspectives and truth. That's on you. Thank you so much.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And we're just getting started.

[Eric Cacciatore]

So if you're enjoying what we're doing here and you want to help us do it even better, please subscribe to this podcast on your platform of choice. And if you do that, I promise to do everything in my power to continue to improve the show. I'll deliver the restaurant tours you want to hear from and we'll continue to make everything you love about this show better.

[Skeeter Miller]

Thank you.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Welcome to restaurant unstoppable. For 10 years and over 1,000 episodes, I've been traveling the country chasing word of mouth leads and having in person only long form discussions with the industry's finest owners and operators. Our mission is to inspire, empower and transform the restaurant industry by bridging the gap between this generation's leaders and the next. Listen to today's guest and so many others and get one step closer to becoming unstoppable. This episode is brought to you by Restaurant Technologies, the leader in automated cooking oil management. Their total oil management solution is an end to end closed loop automated system that delivers, monitors, filters, collects and recycles your cooking oil, eliminating one of the dirtiest jobs in the kitchen. Restaurant technologies services over 45,000 customers nationwide. Automate your oil and elevate your kitchen by visiting RTI Inc.com or call 888-779-5314 to get started. This episode is in partnership with Giving Kitchen. The restaurant industry takes care of people.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

That's what we do.

[Eric Cacciatore]

But historically, we haven't always been great about taking care of our own. That's why I want you to know about Giving Kitchen. They're a national nonprofit supporting food service workers facing real crisis, medical issues, accidents, unexpected hardship. The kind of thing that can really derail a career. Since 2013, they've helped more than 35,000 thousand restaurant workers across the country and awarded over 17 million in financial assistance and stability resources. If you're an operator, chef, or anyone food service, this resource is worth knowing. A lot of restaurants choose a rally around Giving Kitchen because at some point everyone in the business knows someone who needs it. Go to giving kitchen.org to learn more and see how you can be a part of it in your own way. This episode is Made possible by US

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

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[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Allow me to introduce to you today's guest president, owner, host, cook, etc of the County Line Barbecue Restaurant Group, Skeeter Miller. My man, Skeeter, are you feeling unstoppable today?

[Skeeter Miller]

I'm feeling unstoppable and I'm honored to be here.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I'm psyched to have you here. You've been on my radar for years. I'm not sure why I haven't been able to make it work. But then you most recently, I think Anna Tyson first said, you got to talk to my boy Skeeter Miller. He's doing amazing things. I've heard your name bubble up and then recently again, it bubbled up with Jim Hollers from Tailgaters. That guy was super impressive. Really smart dude. So you know I had to make it happen. If everyone's saying you got to talk to Skeeter and what you've done here 50 years, congratulations as of last year, that's amazing, dude. I can't wait to dive into who you are, how you got to where you are today. But let's get that motivational, inspirational ball rolling with a success quote or mantra. What do you got for us?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, one of the things that that I learned in 50 years is, is that you know, in the restaurant business, when you think you got it figured out, that's when you're going to get kicked in the teeth. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I mean, dive more into that. Why is that the case?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, I, you know, I. There was, there was periods of time where we were expanding our business and expanding our business and we were owning our properties, but we were accumulating debt. And then when the dot com bust happens or the real estate bust happens and the banks start doing drive by appraisals, all of a sudden they want to call your notes.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Skeeter Miller]

And that's when we kind of realized, hey, you know, we need to slow things down a little bit and we need to pay off our debt. And then because we have a lot of employees, we have 500 employees, we got a lot of people to protect.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Skeeter Miller]

And so. Including ourselves. And so that's what we did. You know, we put on the brakes and was that, gosh, that was probably in the 1980s.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Okay.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah. And so we did some franchising. Well, we did a lot of franchising just to try to grow the business into areas that maybe we didn't want to go.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Skeeter Miller]

And.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

But you don't know until you know.

[Skeeter Miller]

You don't know until you know. Yeah, but you know, one of the things that I did learn is that, you know, when you're, when you're going to franchise, you need to work with people that have been in the business. And there's some people that have been in the business that are good stewards and then there's some that aren't. And unfortunately we, we chose to go the path where folks had the money. You know, they were ready to go, they were energized, but they don't understand what it takes.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I think we're going to unpackage this

[Skeeter Miller]

a lot more as we just don't understand what it takes.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

We'll save this for that story, no problem there. But we still have years to cover prior to that.

[Skeeter Miller]

Sure, right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

But hit me with that opening quote one more time.

[Skeeter Miller]

Okay. I learned a long time ago in this business and the restaurant business, after 50 years of doing this, when you think you got it all figured out, that's when you get kicked in the teeth.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

It's just so true. Because the world is like, if you, even if you do figure it out, what worked yesterday might not work tomorrow. And in the rate at which things are evolving, the rate at which the industry is changing today for good or bad, you know, like you have to constantly be checking yourself because if you,

[Eric Cacciatore]

if you get fat, dumb and lazy

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

for a year, it might be Long enough to like not be able to catch up with what, what's next?

[Skeeter Miller]

Oh no. If you're behind in this business, you, you have to be on it every day. It's, it's, it's something that it, it requires your attention all the time. I mean I find myself, I have to be in my operation when, whether it's at my corporate office where we do all of our in house marketing, we do all of our promotions, we do all our own hr, we do our own accounting, everything. So we gotta be in the middle of it all the time.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I can't wait to learn more about how you, you structure that and what you learn and how to. It can't be easy to keep that all on house. So I can't wait to unpackage that more again. We'll get back to that as sharing your story. So before we kind of dive into how you got to where you are today, just so our listeners understand can wrap their mind around who I'm talking to, let's just kind of like big picture. What is your business today? Like how many locations, how many concepts? Like, what is your portfolio?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, we have six county lines. Okay. And we have two in Austin, two San Antonio. One in El Paso is called the state line because it sits six feet over the line in New Mexico, which we have a liquor store attached to that that's called the side door liquor store. And that's a whole nother story. And then we have one in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Okay.

[Skeeter Miller]

So we're spread out.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And any other concepts?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, we have flyright chicken, which is in the airport. It's fast, casual. It's something that's really, you know, all clean chicken. It's easy to carry on the airplane. You know, it's a, it's a licensing agreement. It works very well for us. And so that we have that and we have airribs. We ship barbecue anywhere in the United States. And so those are the concepts that we have.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I'm pretty sure I spoke to many. I don't think it was you, but I think I was speaking to your partner maybe like four or five years ago who was focused on fly right. Scaling Fly right. Did you have a partner?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, Ed Norton is my business.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah, Yeah, I think I was talking to him. We never made that happen. But you guys got up to a few locations with that?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, we had three locations.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah, so I, I was aware of that. Back to county line. Each location isn't the same footprint. It's all kind of unique. But on average, how Many seats? Are we talking about each location?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, they're anywhere from, you know, 2, 200 to 350 seats. Okay. And then we have outdoor dining areas. They're all big footprints. They're big footprints. This one here at the hill is about 9,000 square feet.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Oh, wow. And how many seats here?

[Skeeter Miller]

There's probably 400, including the outside.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

How many seats are outside?

[Skeeter Miller]

Probably about 175.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

175. So give or take, when you're not using the outside patio, you're between 250 and 300 around that ballpark, which. This is the oldest location.

[Skeeter Miller]

This is the very first one.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

When you, Are you operating at your peak right now or where, where is business relative to, like, the height?

[Skeeter Miller]

Oh, the height of the business starts about March.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

No, I'm talking about since you started over 50 years ago. Was there a peak of like, in terms of numbers?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, I think when we first opened there was only.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Everyone's down right now, for the record,

[Skeeter Miller]

which is why I'm asking. Yeah, well, I don't want to ask.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

What are your numbers today? Like, I'm curious. Like when, when, like when the industry.

[Skeeter Miller]

I can tell you that the peak. We had 800 restaurants in Austin, Texas. Okay, that was. Yeah, there's like 7,000 today. Okay.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So you personally, but you know, town

[Skeeter Miller]

of Austin, the city of Austin. And so the deal was is that we, you know, we started our restaurant here, we were doing 20 dinners a day. We got a write up in Texas Monthly magazine and we went to 700, 800 dinners a day. And so it was every day. And then the weekends were two and a half, three hour waits. So that was a peak time for us. Okay. We didn't do any outdoor dining or we didn't do private events, but it was, it was peak time. So today, you know, our business just today is probably down about 6%.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

That's it.

[Skeeter Miller]

That's it. Wow.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So what, what, what are you hitting in terms of like, percent profit, prime cost, things like that?

[Skeeter Miller]

That's 7%.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Okay. And in terms of. But you're doing volume with that many seats, right?

[Skeeter Miller]

We do volume, yeah. It just depends. The, the, the, the, the thing that we really have gotten good at when, when the walk in traffic slows down, our private event piece fills the gap. That really helps us a lot. And so, like, just to give you an example, we have people now after Covid. They're trying to get people back to work. They're doing private events. They're buying out the entire restaurant. Oh, wow. Yeah. When they look at the fact of what it's going to cost me to take my company to, let's say a hotel or something like that, the cost. And you don't get this atmosphere right, you. You can let your hair down and come to the county line.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

This place has history, you know, and that takes 50 years to build, you know, and not everyone. That's a unique selling proposition that not anybody can go toe to toe with in terms of selling.

[Skeeter Miller]

You know, everything is unique here. I mean, it's. The settings in all of our locations are very unique. Got it. You. That's hard to replicate. We went to Houston on Westheimer, put a county line in. Everybody loved the food, but it wasn't the same. It wasn't that unique location. It was on Westheimer. It just lost its. Its glow, you know. And so it. We ended up closing that operation.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Got it. And just touch on fly right quick service fried chicken concept. Get into that real quick.

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, the. What we wanted to do was have a quick service concept that was all clean chicken. Everything was super clean. There was no gmo, no. You know, all of the chickens, you know, had an education. And so, you know, it. It was kind of. It was kind of the start of it. It was kind of. People kind of had to get used to it. We had some really good products. We had some really great sandwiches, but it was not cheap. They're used to going to. And some of my competitors that are a lot cheaper.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

We don't have to say the name.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, we won't say their name. And there's. They're very successful. I mean, they're. They're. They're same store sales are around 4 million a year. Well, so that was. That was a little difficult, but we were growing the business. But what happened was, is when we hit Covid, all of the office buildings emptied and the traffic emptied, but it's never really come back. And so that's why we closed the two locations. We. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And I think that I kind of remember that when I was talking to your partner back, and I think it was 2020, late 2020, 2021. I think that there you guys were experiencing a boom. And then Covid happened and like, it kind of like halted.

[Skeeter Miller]

It did.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah. And I think I remember him being just like. I don't like, you know, it's. It's rough right now. I'm not really in a podcast mood because of the nature of things that are going on. That's what I kind of remember, which makes sense. So now we we have an idea of who we're talking to.

[Skeeter Miller]

Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Let's go back to 1975.

[Skeeter Miller]

Okay.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

50 years ago. You didn't open this place, did you?

[Skeeter Miller]

No.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

How did you get started here?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, I grew up. There was, there were several founders, but four of them, I actually were brothers that lived in Dallas. That's where I grew up. The youngest one was Randy Goss and so he and I played football together, baseball together. And I knew all the other brothers. They, they were the. Rick Goss and Rocky Goss were in. Ed Norton, my business partner. They were some of the very first ones. Bruce Walcott. Bruce and Rick were really the founders and because they had the concept behind it and they were in the restaurant. So I went to University of Arkansas and played baseball. And then when I really wanted, when I got out of there, I wanted to come to Austin where all my friends were, went to work in the oil field as a roughneck, earned enough money and moved here. And they were open in the county line.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So what year was that?

[Skeeter Miller]

That wasn't, that was 1975.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

How old were you in 1975?

[Skeeter Miller]

20. I think it was. 21 years old.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

21 years old. You could make some money as a roughneck today too.

[Skeeter Miller]

I did, yeah, I did very well. I double shipped it. I made, I made some good money. You know, when you're young, you don't realize it's dangerous.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Right. And you're also.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, I have all my fingers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So you get some money, get a little money behind you. You come out here. You start as a dishwasher.

[Skeeter Miller]

I was a dishwasher, very first dishwasher.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And this is your first restaurant job?

[Skeeter Miller]

No, actually I had a job at the Royal Coach Inn in Dallas when I was 13 years old. My parents, I was in the summer. My parents didn't know that I was. I rode my bicycle, built for two to the restaurant at five o' clock in the morning. And I washed and I washed dishes and I cracked like 10,000 eggs a morning, you know, for the buffet line. So. And, but I've cooked all my life. I've always been in the kitchen. So I love, I love food. I read recipe books, combine recipes. So I work on a lot of stuff that we do here.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So back then, did you have a clue that you might want to do this like long term or was it just a summer job or whatever? A little side hustle?

[Skeeter Miller]

It was just, it was a side hustle, you know, I didn't, you know, when I started here, I was with. Everybody was friends, and we all worked together. And, you know, we opened this place when at first, 65,000 bucks. I mean, it was put together with extension cords and baling wire. You know, I mean, it was. It was interesting. But, you know, we. We were just trying to. Bruce and Rick, I mean, when I would come to work, they would be sleeping on the church pews out front. That's. They were here all the time, and they were just trying to make sure the business got off the ground. It was questionable at the time. Texas Monthly wrote that article.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Right. So this is. So when you came here, 1975, 24 years old, you said 21. 21 years old. You start as a dishwasher.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And they. I think I read an article. They kind of just said, hey, like, we're going to. We're getting out of here. Like, here's the keys.

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, like, yeah, you want me to tell you the story? So we go. So they said, hey, we're going to El Paso and we're going to open a restaurant there. Because Bruce went to UT El Paso, and so he always liked that market. So I said, okay. They said, maybe if you go out there, you can, you know, maybe work your way into management. And so I said, okay. And I went home and talked to my girlfriend, and I said, so I think we're going to go to El Paso. Where is it? And so it's out there. It's out there. It's like a giant kitty litter box out there. So we took off and we went out there, and I had worked every job, Every. Every single job there was. And, you know, just. Just to preface that, I just noticed that there was a lot of inefficiencies that we weren't doing. You know, like, there was no time clock. Everybody signed their name in. They were. Some people were signing other people in. There was no scale to do portion control and those kind of things. So as I was working, I was noticing things that could make that business possibly scale better. And so one day I walked into the kitchen, and the carpenter, the general manager's dad was the carpenter for the business, because we did everything ourselves, okay? We didn't have the money to do much more than that. And so he had one of the workers by the neck. I don't know what happened, but when I walked in, I grabbed the carpenter and I separated him. And Bruce walks in, and he said, I want to know what's going on. And I said, I don't know. I just walked in the door, and John had him around, you know, Donnie Hurdis around the neck. And. And he goes, well, he fired him. He fired the carpenter. And his son was standing there, and he said, well, if you're firing my dad, I quit. And Bruce said, give me the keys. So he took the keys, and he looked at me and he pitched me the keys, and he says, you can run this place. And they took off and went to Puerto Vallarta.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Wait, so the carpenter was the one that had the other guy by the neck?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And the son was working with his dad, the carpenter, and then you. So he had the keys. The. The owner was it.

[Skeeter Miller]

No, the general manager had the keys, and his dad was the carpenter. And he quit when they fired his dad. When Bruce fired his dad. So, yeah, it's like a Saturday night skit. So he. He. He pitches me the keys. And so they took off. I mean, there was no paperwork to sign. There was nothing. I was now in charge. That's crazy. So in. In, in, you know, that. The changeover from them to me, it was seamless. You know, I was there. I had been there. I had great camaraderie with everybody that worked there. They were friends. But at the same time, you know, I started formulating a way to run the business. Yeah. And so first thing I did is got a scale, got a time clock, made some changes. We had guidelines. I hate to say we have rules. We have guidelines.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Controlling your fixed costs.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Or variable costs. Sorry. You know, like two things. Like, how do you control your variable labor cost of goods?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

What are the two things you do to control. Like, you just start tracking those things. You're like, here's a time clock. Like. Like in, out, like, what are our labor hours? Let's get controls. We need data to control that. And the same thing with the scale and cost goods. Like, we need data. Like, how much food. What's the volume that's coming through this place? Does that match up with what our revenue is?

[Skeeter Miller]

Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

The first two things, you knew this. This wasn't 1975. This was a.

[Eric Cacciatore]

How long was this after.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Because you came to. And first. But then you went to El Paso. How long?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, I think I may be wrong with the years, but I think it was 78 when we. 78 when we opened state line.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So 78 when you opened State Line, El Paso. And so you were already with the restaurant for three years at this point.

[Skeeter Miller]

Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And then how long were you working there before they threw you the keys?

[Skeeter Miller]

Probably. I was there probably for about a year.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Okay.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So you're four years into your restaurant. How did you know to get a time clock and to get a scale? Like, I feel like that's not really intuitive for, for your employee when you start as a dishwasher. Right?

[Skeeter Miller]

Like, well, you know, it was funny when I was cooking and they, they finally got a little paloozy, cheap $10 scale and I would put two slices of meat on it and it would weigh so much and I would pull it off and then I would put the same two slices of meat on it and, and it weighed something completely different. And I said, this is bizarre. I don't even know why we're using this. And then working in the restaurant when I was 13, at the Royal Coach Inn, I mean, you had a time clock. That's how you kept up with people. You came in and you came out. The thing that I learned is, is that they can still punch somebody else in and punch somebody else out. So, you know, I created a deal where the manager had to initial your time when you came in and initialed your time when you came, came out. So we knew. Yeah. And so, so I just had. You have to have checks and double checks. So for sure, yeah.

[Eric Cacciatore]

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[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

missing anything that is worth sharing in terms of your growth, your, your evolution during this first four or five year period from 1975 to, you know, 1980.

[Skeeter Miller]

Oh, my gosh. I mean, you know, this could take forever. I mean, we didn't do inventory. We, we started doing inventories. You know, the way we, we prepared the food had just, it had a recipe, a sort of recipe, but everybody was doing it differently. You know, we had to, we had to come up with a way that we're going to prepare this food the same every single day. And so those were, those were the things that I worked really, really hard at. And then, then what happened was, is Bruce came back after being gone for a year and said, what the hell's going on here? And I said, I don't know. Or were we doing something wrong? He goes, no, this place is coining so much money compared to the one in Austin. We want to, we want to bring you to Austin. We want to make you a partner, and we want to, we want you to start running our operation.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

That was a year after they threw you the keys.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Okay. What were your biggest challenges in that first year? From being thrown the keys to having them come back and say you're doing a great job. Like, for you personally, what were your challenges?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, I think, I don't, I don't look at them as today, today running the operation, I look at challenges. Okay. But back then, it was just like the door was open to trying things. The door was open to being successful at adding, you know, guidelines to the business. And so, you know, I, I got along great with all the employees. You know, I never, I never had a problem with, you know, getting them to follow, you know, because I was in there and had done it all with them. And so I just don't, I don't remember it being like it is today. And I don't know if I'm answering your question, but I, I just don't remember a challenge.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah, I think the, the world has changed a lot since then.

[Skeeter Miller]

I had the. I had the. I had the greatest employees. People would come and apply for a job at that restaurant every day, and I would have to turn people away, good people, because I. Nobody ever left. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

What were the things that you were doing differently in El Paso that wasn't happening in Austin? If you could, like, look back and, you know, because they said, what are you doing here? It's like, the numbers are great. Like, what was the magic that you captured in that bottle? In El Paso,

[Skeeter Miller]

we had control. We controlled the business. We controlled the portions, we controlled our labor. We. We had a process about the way we handled the food. So we got the most out of it with our food cost. You know, we started doing. Using. Rather than poking the meat on the pit to see if it's done, we were starting to use temperatures. We had temperature controls because every cow is different. They're not the same. You can't. You can't have one brisket done and expect all of them to be done different sizes. Yeah. And so. So we, you know, we. We really worked on the controls. And so when I came back to Austin, they had opened up the county line on the lake in. The county line on the lake at that time had probably 50 to 60% food cost.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So that was 1980 when they opened Austin on the lake.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So you. You started in county line, Austin, OG location where we're sitting today.

[Skeeter Miller]

Correct.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You went to El Paso. They opened el Paso in 1977. And so you're there for a total of three years fine tuning those systems and processes. And then you came back to Austin when they were opening county line on the lake, Were you at county line on the lake, or did you come back to the original story?

[Skeeter Miller]

I came back to the corporate office,

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

which is where we are today.

[Skeeter Miller]

The corporate office is. Well, at the time, we had. We were. We were officed in a little bitty house.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Okay.

[Skeeter Miller]

Off Rio Grande Street. I was, like, in a closet. Okay. And had a phone.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So you went from the floor managing the restaurant to now you're part of the corporate team?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

What was your title?

[Skeeter Miller]

I was director of operations.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Okay.

[Skeeter Miller]

And then I became vice president.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And did they make you a partner when they saw how well you're doing?

[Skeeter Miller]

They did. Probably a year after I'd been here.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Okay. Is it worth getting into that and how you navigate, like, earning equity in a business and, I mean, whether it was there paperwork involved or was it a little more loose back then?

[Skeeter Miller]

You know, things were simple. Yeah, things were very simple in those days. There's A lot of trust.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Skeeter Miller]

Okay. They were, we were honestly. And it's still that way today. We're, we were like a family. And so, you know, because we were close friends and everybody needed each other, we didn't, we didn't necessarily meet on a regular basis like we do today. But you know, we, we. There was just a lot of trust involved and they trusted me to, to be doing the right things. That's where the challenges started. You know, it's just gearing restaurants that had been able to do whatever they wanted to do to. We're going to follow some guidelines that I set up in El Paso. And then we started creating manuals and we started like everybody was allowed to drink after work, you know, and it was like, okay, for free. For free.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Okay.

[Skeeter Miller]

And so this isn't a shift drink, is it? Yes, it's a shift drink.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Or is it multiple?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, well, our tea glasses are 32 ounces, so you know, you could have one drink. So they'd go get a 32 ounce drink. Right. So. So at the time, there was no point of sale system at the time. And so, you know, it was a manual checkout. So they're sitting there drinking a 32 ounce liquor, probably a glass, probably two. And checkouts were always wrong. They were never right. People always had to come back and pay us back money. And so I said no more and it's a liability. They're going to leave work and get in their car. So I just was in labor, they're still on the clock. And so I'm like, this has all got to stop. So I cut out. No more drinks after work. No more drinking at work, at the restaurant. You have to, you have to leave. You sit down and do your checkout and then you turn it in, we count your money and you leave.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

This is early 80s?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

How was that received?

[Skeeter Miller]

It was a disaster.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Skeeter Miller]

And so Bruce and Rick came to me and they said, hey, we, we heard you stop the drinks after work. And you're. The employees are really pissed. They're calling us and, and you, you gotta institute that again. And I said, I'm not gonna do it.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I've seen videos of Texans pushing back when they started to enforce the drinking and driving laws. And they're like, this is ridiculous. We're not allowed to work a 8 hour and 10 hour day and then have a couple beers while we drive home. Like, what are they gonna do? Like this time I make not just Texas, but drinking culture in America was

[Skeeter Miller]

like big, you know, it was Huge.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah. It's like you're right to be able to like drink whenever you want. Yeah, I could imagine the, the culture around drinking has shifted a lot.

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, back then there was no such thing as dwi.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Right.

[Skeeter Miller]

I mean, you know, so, so anyway, they, that's how times are different now. You know, you have to, you kind of have to. You can't let them get away with things, but you have to be, you can't just. It's just harder. Back then these people were making great money. So are they going to push back and lose their job because they can't have a drink after work? No. I always called it the two week bitch factor. Okay. So everything I instituted there was a two week bitch factor. And then all of a sudden everybody fell into line that, hey, this is actually better. I get to leave work, I can go. If they want to go spend their money at another bar, that's fine with me. But I've. Now I'm out of the restaurant earlier, you know, the cooks are out or everybody's. It's just, it just started to flow.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

What's the key to overcoming the bitch factor?

[Skeeter Miller]

You have to stick to your guns and you have to be consistent. You know, if from manager to manager, there's no consistency. You're never going to get, you're never going to accomplish your goal. You're always going to be a fight. Well, he let me do this. Well, I got to do this. Everybody's got to be on the same page. That's why these managers today, they have to meet every single week and talk about who's a strong player, who's not a strong player, who didn't do this. How are we doing better? Listen, let's go over our financial statements. Oh, we have to work on our budget. Those are. And we can get into that as how things change. The where my managers all worked from the ground up, like me. Yeah. But at the same time, they needed to learn more about the financial piece of the business.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You have to out, indoor, out, resist. You know, there's that resistance. You have to be stronger. You have to out will that.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You know, and to your point, after two weeks of just having stronger will than the resistance, new habits start to form. People start to accept that this is the new normal and eventually it's gone. Right. And then it's next. Now it's time to next to implement the next thing.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, it's in. And I think when that, when you get that culture, that culture for that particular thing going, the next guy that Comes in is trained. That's how he's trained.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Skeeter Miller]

So that's normal. Yeah. And, you know, one of the fun things I used to do is, you know, I never firing somebody was just like, I always hated it. I always wanted to give people an opportunity. So if somebody didn't show up to work on time or didn't come to work for some reason, they went out drinking the night before or whatever. I had, I had something that I created called the dreaded duty. And they had to clean a barbecue pit. They had to, they had to do some terrible job. Like, I had some, some cooks one time that they thought it was funny that it was a Saturday night, we were stinking busy in El Paso and they, they. And we were close. So they put Tabasco in my glass iced tea that I kept in this one spot. So I drink that iced tea that there was Tabasco in it. I never said a word all night. And when we were sitting in, I was checking, went through and checked every cook out. And so I said, okay, so who put the Tabasco in my iced tea? And they go, they all just looked at each other. I said, so nobody's going to tell on anybody, right? That's not a problem. But tomorrow we're going to the warehouse and you're going to clean it. And I took them all over there. I gave them a four gallon bucket of water with some ice in it and a bunch of cups. And we opened up is where all our, you know, receipts were and all the, you know, there's black wood of spiders and it was nasty. And I left them there. They were there all day. And then I felt really terrible when I went to pick them up because there was so much dust in there. I could see, I could see black soot on their face. But you know what? They, they did it. They, they paid, they paid their fine and, you know, was good. It was, it was.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

People on track. You need to have to know that there's repercussions for your actions.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And knowing that, like, if I slack off, like I'm gonna pay for it will probably keep somebody from doing that.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You know.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah. Dreaded duties today, those are old. Okay. We don't do that. I mean, you know, I get in trouble. You might get in trouble today. Making somebody get inside a barbecue pit.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Right.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So let's just like zoom up to 30, 000ft because I feel like we've been kind of hovering real close to the surface in a helicopter.

[Skeeter Miller]

Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

But we have a lot of career to cover. We're still in the 80s, right. You know, we got 40 more years to unpack here, so.

[Skeeter Miller]

Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

When did you get. You said about a year after being offered the director of operations position. They made you partner.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And then County Line Albuquerque opens in 1984. That's the. The third.

[Skeeter Miller]

No, the next location was County Line san Antonio on 1604. I'm almost positive because that was the first restaurant that we did from the ground up. That was. All of our locations were existing buildings that we had done up to that state line and here at the county line on the hill and County Line on the lake. And then we did San Antonio. Oh.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So I have dates in front of me. The state line original was 1975.

[Skeeter Miller]

El Paso is 1970 line on the hills original.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

That's what I meant.

[Skeeter Miller]

Sorry. Okay.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

County line on the hill, which is where we are today in Austin, right?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And then county line on el Paso was 1977. County line on the lake again, Austin.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

1980. At this point you're the director of operations.

[Skeeter Miller]

Sure.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

The next one. I see. What was the next one open after that? You said San Antonio.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah. 60. It has to be 1604 because I was a. I designed the kitchen and did all of the layout for that. So it.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

1604.

[Skeeter Miller]

1604.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Is that the address or like, is that.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Okay.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, that's what we called.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Did that close?

[Skeeter Miller]

No, we, we. Well, no, it didn't close. What we did is what is San Antonio? We were out. We were out in the woods. Okay. San Antonio was 10 or 15 minutes away. It was on a two off a two lane road called the Death Loop. It was the loop around San Antonio. So anyway, the issue that happened is it started to develop a lot between downtown San Antonio and 1604. And so, you know, mom and dad work, they pick up the kids, they're tired now they have more choices closer to home. So they weren't driving out. And we were losing that business Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. And so our sales were declining. Okay. And so we decided, well, what are we going to do? So we took and we sold that property, eventually sold that property and built county line I10.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Okay. That's why I was confused.

[Skeeter Miller]

I saw.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And that was in 1998?

[Skeeter Miller]

That year, yes. Okay. We had done some restaurants at App. We had done some restaurants between from 1604 before we sold 1604.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And then you had County Line Riverwalk in 1995.

[Skeeter Miller]

That happened.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

That was your second San Antonio before relocating the original.

[Skeeter Miller]

And it's only 3,800 square feet. So we. We don't have barbecue pits down there.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Got it.

[Skeeter Miller]

Okay. So we were commissary in the food from 1604. I built an additional kitchen so we could make the food for not only 1604, but the Riverwalk.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Got it. Are any of the original partners still working in the business?

[Skeeter Miller]

Just Ed Norton and I, just Edward and. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So I guess just take me through the evolution. Like right now, I would say opening is first gear. Right. Second gear was when you guys started opening new locations and you start putting systems in place and you really started saying, we need standards. What was like, the next thing that you guys did and when did that come along for you in terms of, like, elevating and fine tuning how you guys do business?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, we, you know, I felt like that. That we weren't. We weren't. You know, because we had locations in El Paso, that when we had Albuquerque at one point, we.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

We spread out.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah. So I feel. Really felt like that I. That. That we needed to get more communication between the teams. Can't be out there all the time.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Right.

[Skeeter Miller]

You know, and so I started. And. And I can't. It's been so long ago, but I started the manager. We call it manager finance meetings. Okay. We never really had a good financial statement for the longest time because we had a really. The accounting department was just. It was separate from our business and it just didn't produce a lot of information for us. Good information. So payroll information. Yes. And so a bookkeeper.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

But maybe they weren't necessarily a restaurant.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah. We might as well not had anything. So. So anyway, we, We. We hired a controller and we started producing, you know, information and financial statements that could help us. And, and so that. That was helping run the business. You know, Bruce was in Rick, and everybody was still rocky. Everybody's still involved and together. And so I started at what we call a manager finance meeting. And so we would bring two managers in, the key manager and then one assistant manager. And they had to sit down in front of us and each one of them in front of the group and explain their financial statement line by line. And so that after the first year that we did that, we. I remember putting an additional $500,000 on the bottom line. Wow. Because people, it was not only we want to do well, but. But we were helping each other. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And what gets measured gets minded.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And if you're being forced to measure, then you can start to see patterns.

[Skeeter Miller]

Sure.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And then, you know, oh, when I do this, this Happens. And I should do that again and. Oh, I'm going to share that with the group. We can all start doing this. So you're teaching each other.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, and we. We've never stopped doing that. Even when Covid hit. We did zoom finance meetings that just weren't. They're not the same as when we get together. Yeah. Okay, so how often did you do

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

this when you start?

[Skeeter Miller]

A month.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Once a month.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And this is all the. And how many different locations did you have? Where. Where is this in the timeline in terms of the.

[Skeeter Miller]

Gosh. I mean, I. I mean, probably in the 90s.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

How many locations did you have at that point?

[Skeeter Miller]

I think. I think we had all of our.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

To Austin, El Paso, San Antonio, and Albuquerque. In Albuquerque. So you're at six. So Albuquerque opened or. So this would have been. Was this before or after you moved the original San Antonio to the i10?

[Skeeter Miller]

I believe it was before.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So it would have been around 1995.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So 10 years to. Actually, no, this would have been 20 years in. 20 years in is when you started really having a. A weekly monthly cadence of numbers.

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, the managers meet every week. Yeah, but. And. And now they have to send all of their notes from their manager meeting to us.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Okay.

[Skeeter Miller]

Okay.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So, yeah, you guys were doing this. This monthly meeting in person? Every.

[Skeeter Miller]

In person.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So you fly people.

[Skeeter Miller]

Five people, man. Put them up. Yes.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And who, like, where did you go to learn about this? Was this the.

[Skeeter Miller]

I just. No, I just. I just thought that. That this is what we need to

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

do, you know, $500,000 to the bottom line. Is that what I heard?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Wow. So that's profit. $500,000 profit was.

[Skeeter Miller]

Profit. Wow. It was. It was really amazing. And, and, and as we go along, I can tell you how we grew that, you know, to add more components to the business, which became components of the manager finance.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

What do you mean by that? More components?

[Skeeter Miller]

More components. Okay. Social media is a new thing. Okay. Private events is a new thing. Catering is a new thing.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Diversifying your offering.

[Skeeter Miller]

Right. We weren't open. We. When we first opened, we were closed on Mondays and we were only open for dinner.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Wow.

[Skeeter Miller]

So here you got a piece of real estate sitting here that you're paying for and you're not utilizing it as much to its utmost. So. So I started lunch and we started doing lunch. There was a little, you know, there was a learning curve that might have been a four week bitch factor. Okay. But we got it done. And. And then we created a lunch menu and. And so, you know, we were working through it, you know, and I'm a, you know, I believe in checklists and I believe in a plan. Okay. And I believe the group has to help me with the plan. Okay? So we're all in it together. All right? And so as we move along, whether it's a restaurant opening or whatever it is, is. We move along and we hit roadblocks. Then. Then we have to. I call it punting. Okay? This isn't working, so we're going to have to punt. What direction do you think is going to work best? And then we, We. We work through it.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

How do you get people to buy into the. The plan? You said people have to believe in the plan and the buy into the plan. So you need your checklist, your plan, and people have to buy into it. How do you get that buy.

[Skeeter Miller]

They're a part of it. They're a part of the plan. Okay. I mean, I'm a. I'm. I feel like I'm a listener up to a certain point, but when, you know, when I feel like we're not. We're not. We're not where we need to be, then I think this is what. No, this is what we're gonna do.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So are you. When you're, you know, you have your checklist, you have your plan, and you have buy in, but are you establishing the plan or are they establishing.

[Skeeter Miller]

I start. I start the plan.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Okay.

[Skeeter Miller]

Okay. About that. These are the. These are the. These are what I've been thinking about. This is what I. That I think we ought to do. So we need to accomplish that. We need in order to grow the business. This is what we need to do. So, so we start walking through the checklist in the plan, and this is how we're going to do it if

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

we want to be here in five years.

[Skeeter Miller]

Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And these are the things that need to happen in order for that to happen. So, like, what's the first thing?

[Skeeter Miller]

How do we, how do we get there? You got. And you know what, so many times what I see, you know, in our business, in any business, that if you, if you have too much in the plan, you can't see the forest for the trees. Okay. And everybody's all over the place, right? No, no, let's narrow this down to step one, two, and three.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Let's all focus. Like, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You focus on the most important thing that will help you take the next bite. And then most important thing, they'll help you Take a bigger chunk the next bite.

[Skeeter Miller]

Sure.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

But back to this idea of, like, it's your plan, it's your vision, and you're saying we do it together. How do you get them to want to do it? How do you motivate people? How do you get them to adopt your vision and be excited about it and do it together?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, I think, I think they wanted to grow the business. Yeah, they wanted to grow the business. And, you know, let's say, for instance, there's a, There's a bonus program involved in, in the sales and the volume of the business. And, or, you know, even at our corporate office, we, we meet on a regular basis to talk about where we're at, what are we working on, how are we going to get to the end, the, the goal. And so I, you know, I don't feel like I look at pushback. I don't, I don't feel like I get. You'd have to ask my team, but I don't feel like I get a lot of pushback. You know, I think they, they know me, you know, I'm a giving person. I listen and everything, but when I'm ready to, I'm ready to flip the switch and let's get into it and see where we're at. They're ready to go. Yeah. But we have, We've worked together so long that they have no problem telling me, hey, this isn't working. Let me tell you why.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Skeeter Miller]

Okay. And then, you know, a lot of times kids have an idea that's a really good idea, so I have to ask. So I like it. But what's the ROI on that? What. What's the return on that? If we institute that? Because I'm have to spend money.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah. What's the opportunity?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yes. What. Where are we going to? Where are we going to go? So, like, for instance, county line on the lake. As we, as we started getting into the private events piece, you know, the managers were trying to feel the calls to do a private party, do a private party. You know, they don't have time to do that. They need to be out on the floor. So I felt like that I needed to reach outside the company and find somebody that could do. Could help us with that program. And so. But we didn't have a private party room at the lake, you know, so as we got into it, they said, well, we need more space. And so that's when I bought the tent. But I had them tell me, hey, it's going to have 120 seats, will be able to fill this so many times. This is what we're going to do it. I could see how we would easily pay for the 15 or 20 thousand dollar investment and it was just going to gin money from there on out. That that store does 300, 300 events a year now in that tent. Wow.

[Eric Cacciatore]

This episode is Made possible by US Foods it takes more than great food to run a kitchen these days with U S Foods. More means consistently high quality products, industry leading tools and flexible deliveries that let you grow your business on your schedule. Whatever your goals, US Foods helps you turn them into reality. As a US Foods customer, you'll gain access to their industry leading Moxi platform which doesn't just make it easy to place your US Foods order, but it uses AI powered technology to help you take more control of your business and increase profitability. You can also explore the latest issues of Food Fanatics magazine from US Foods. In each issue you'll find real world success stories, bold culinary inspiration and practical profit boosting ideas you can put to work immediately. Visit us foods.com/expect more to learn how to become a US Foods customer again. That's usfoods.com/expect more this episode is made possible by Sir Boney Sir Bony is your all in one bookkeeping and financial solution referred to me organically in episode 1200 by Mama Betty's founder Jason Carrier.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You got to hear what Jason had to say about Sir Boni.

[Eric Cacciatore]

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[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

your first month of services. The the big things I'm getting from you when I'm if I'm reading between the lines is how you get this buy in is you give people, you know, the ability to influence the outcome, a sense of purpose, a sense of autonomy, of sure. It's not command and control, it's hey gang, here's what we can do. Here's a vision. This will. We'll all benefit from this. We'll bring more money, and we get. You mentioned profit sharing or, you know, bonuses so that there's incentive here. But also, it sounds like you're really giving people the freedom to take it and to make the project their own. And when we have a sense of autonomy, when we have a sense of purpose, when we can make an impact on the whole. We feel way good about ourselves. And when you do that over and over again and you're not hovering over them, you're not.

[Skeeter Miller]

I. I'm not a micromanager.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Like, people, when they get.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

When they feel like. Like they're good at something and they can make a difference, like that dopamine of being seen and recognized and achieving the goal is so addictive. And that's the kind of thing you want to get addicted to, is a growth improvement, like elevating.

[Skeeter Miller]

You can always make your business better.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah. So. And then. I love it. You started the business as an mvp, right? We do dinner at night, and then once you dialed that in, and it's rock solid, like, well, let's do lunch. Okay, well, where's the next opportunity for you? Was that catering or private events?

[Skeeter Miller]

We did. We did. We started a company called County Line Custom Cooking.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Okay.

[Skeeter Miller]

And so that was our catering piece. Okay. And. And we had a catering truck. And then we started. And you notice there's a cabin on this piece of.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah, I did.

[Skeeter Miller]

So we started thinking, hey, this is great. People are calling and wanting to ship the barbecue. So we started shipping barbecue. We were cooking it here, shipping it out, and everything else mail order. I don't even. I. It was. We were freezing it, doing it ourselves. And so I just remember we went to a. To a Christmas affair where you're selling your, you know, you're tasting your food and you're selling your air ribs program or you're catering. And the guys next to us were selling emu. Okay. They had a USDA facility. They, you know, had spent all the money to have all this. Here I am. I don't have a USDA facility. I'm just shipping barbecue, cooking it and freezing it and shipping it. I don't have. I don't have any of that. And they look over there and they turn me in. Yeah. Yeah. And a little less to the usda. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, I. Listen, I'd be the first one to say, hey, does that. Are you. USDA facility? You know, I think I had to do this so, so anyway, the USDA came to the office, and honestly, with Airribs, we do shipping all year. Unfortunately, shipping costs have gotten so expensive, sometimes it's more than. Yeah. And so, but. But anyway, he comes to the office, biggest business is November and December, Thanksgiving and Christmas, you know, so we operate all year. It's a marketing tool, Airribs. And then we really dial it in on November and December. And so we're. We're in getting into December when it's just everybody's buying a Christmas present and everything else. And the guy was just super nice. And I said, look, I said, I get it. And. And I'm not going to do a USDA facility, but this is the busiest time of year for us. And we waited all year. Is there any way that you can come back in January 1st? He said, I'll be back at your office January 1st. And I said, okay. And so we finished the year and then we started looking, talking to our franchises.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So this is after you did the franchise?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yes, and so that's. So. So one of the franchises in Colorado springs built a USDA facility onto his restaurant, bought the USDA pits and everything. And we were a 5050 partner with them on that business. And so that. That's how we continue to grow that business. So it worked well. I mean, it was okay. I mean, it's still. It's still a marketing piece of ours. People love the food.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And you're still doing it.

[Skeeter Miller]

We're still doing it, but we do it.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

We.

[Skeeter Miller]

We no longer do it. That. The Colorado Springs franchise, we're fast forwarding. They closed. Okay. And so I said, well, we. So they wanted us to purchase the Airribs. Airribs business back. And I go, no, I'm not going to buy it back. You're. You're ending the business. I. It's part of my business. I'm just.

[Eric Cacciatore]

You already own.

[Skeeter Miller]

I already own it, so I'm going to do it. And so we found a company that did barbecue and shipped barbecue, and then we went to them and offered them an opportunity to do this at a 5050 partnership, as long as we could go there and teach them how to cook our barbecue. And that's what we did. So. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

When did you start the franchising?

[Skeeter Miller]

Oh, man, I don't know that I can give you a date on that. And I'm trying to think. I'm trying to think. It was probably had to be in the 80s. And I'm even trying to think of earlier county line, Lubbock County Line. Lubbock was, I believe, our first franchise, and it was a. It was a banker. He wanted to do a franchise, and. And the piece of property was unbelievable. It was in Lubbock. In Lubbock.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Where's Lubbock?

[Skeeter Miller]

It's out west. Sorry, I'm not really. Yeah, it's out west. And so Lubbock is. Yeah, yeah, it's in Texas. Lubbock, Texas. It's where Texas Tech is.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Oh, okay.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah. And it's just. It's the. The Lubbock is just. I mean, it's just not real pretty. Okay. But this piece of property was probably around 14 acres. It had a river running through it. It had 100-year-old elm trees on it. I mean, it was like an oasis is what it was. And we opened it, and it was called the Roadhouse, and so.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

County Line Roadhouse.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah. Yeah, we did. We just called it the Roadhouse. That's. That's what they wanted to call it. We changed the name.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

This is a franchise.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yes, a franchise. You know, it was like, anything goes. They're good. So. And they were.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Sorry, I didn't mean to laugh.

[Skeeter Miller]

They were so. They were so. They were so busy how. You know, they were so busy that it was a great. You know, it's a licensing agreement they gave us. I think it was 3% of their gross or 4%. And I think they paid, I don't know, $75,000 for the franchise to start the franchise. I mean, that's such a long time ago. And so. And it did really well, but they were poor operators, and they were representing our brand. And so as time went on, they. That we. They sold the franchise to somebody else, which we approved. They operated it. They didn't do a good job, so we took it away from them. Yeah. Yeah. And we took it back over.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And was that in the agreement that you have the right to take it away?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yes. So. And when we did, I. I'm almost positive we ran it for, like, nine years. Okay. And it was just a unique location. I mean, where there was ducks and chickens and turkeys and a donkey on the property. And it was it for. For Lubbock. It's beautiful. People today still call me and say, hey, you know that. When are you going to come back to Lubbock?

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Did you own the property?

[Skeeter Miller]

No, we leased the property.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Too bad.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, we. We leased the property.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So at your peak, you had 15 locations or 15 franchisees?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, we. We had. We had. I think we had around 15 franchisees,

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

including the six that you owned.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So all in. So you had horrible. I'm at 13. Wait, no, that's not right.

[Skeeter Miller]

Ten verse.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Nine.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, I'm, yeah, about nine franchise locations. Yeah. And I'm trying to think it, I have to look back on it because we don't, we don't keep up with that anymore. But I mean, it was Denver, Colorado Springs, Oklahoma City, Irvine, California, Amarillo, you know, Lubbock. So we had, we had quite a few.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And what, what year was it when you had 15 total locations, including the nine franchisees?

[Skeeter Miller]

I can't, I can't, I can't recall exactly. It. 90s.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Mid 90s. Yeah, mid 90s. What, what have you, what did you learn from your experience of going that route of franchising? Like, if you, like if you knew what you knew now and you could go back to that 1985 version of yourself when you started doing the franchising, what advice would you give yourself?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, if I was going to do franchise, I, and, and I give this advice all the time, is that you need to, if you're going to franchise, you need to franchise to somebody.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Well, you're talking to the 1985 version of yourself. You know, everything you know about franchising and you're going back in time in a time machine to say, hey, past self. Before you do this, here's what I want you to know.

[Skeeter Miller]

You gotta, you gotta have somebody. You gotta, you gotta franchise to somebody that's in, that's in the restaurant business. Yeah. And knows the business. And they have to be a good operator. You need to really look into, look into their past or their operations that they currently have. Because we did open a Garland franchise with somebody that was an operator. They had one restaurant and basically they were a chicken in an eagle suit. Okay. That's, I mean, that's the only way I can explain it. Okay.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah, I think it's, it's franchising is so appealing because there's, you know, you're talking about diversifying your portfolio, creating other revenue, other streams of revenue. If you have a really great concept that has, you know, good numbers, you can sell your franchise for hundreds of thousands of dollars. You can, that you can get liquid, you know, then you have the recurring revenue that's coming in from that, the mailbox money. And then if you're depending on what your values are, you can also then earn affiliate commissions on all the things that you need to out outsource or outfit that.

[Skeeter Miller]

Sure.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Restaurant. So you're earning commission on fryers and stoves and like all these. You're, you know, what's the word I'm looking for? Essentially, you have deals with these distributors.

[Skeeter Miller]

It's like a national account. It's a national accounts. Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I tend to believe you should give those kickbacks, pay it forward to the franchisee, you know, to help them lower their cost of success.

[Skeeter Miller]

But I think, I think just what I look at today, if I fast forward it back then we never, in this, this came up the other day. We never looked at scaling a business to sell it. We never looked at that. We were just trying to grow the business to get the additional revenue. So maybe we could open up another homeowned store. Okay.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So it was a way for. So just like catering, just like events.

[Skeeter Miller]

Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

This is another opportunity to get more cash flow to do what we're doing better.

[Skeeter Miller]

Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

But what did you do wrong? And it sounds like you didn't really vet the franchisee to make sure that they were going to represent the brand well.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah. And. And we found out they weren't. They weren't representing the brand well.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And I think that's the biggest lesson I've learned in terms of franchising is do you really want to become a franchisor? Because that means your. Your job is completely changing. Because now your employee isn't the frontline person. It's the. It's the franchisee. And everything you do is about lifting up and making sure that franchisee becomes successful. You, like, you are, you are. You know, that is your core focus going forward. It has to be. And you have to be giving them the tools, giving them the resources.

[Skeeter Miller]

You get that.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Your thumb on them. Like you have your thumb on your frontline employees if you were to own a restaurant. So you almost have to be willing to totally back out of being an operator. You're no longer a restaurant operator. You're a franchisor.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And that's a different game.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

It's. You're removed from the end result of the. The consumer. Like, do you really want to do that? Is it worth it?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, I think it depends on what your. What your business model is. Ours is barbecue. Okay. Takes 18 to 20 hours to cook it.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Skeeter Miller]

That's another thing that's. It's not. It's not flipping a burger or cooking a steak.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Can't have a robot do that.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah. And so there's a lot. There's a lot that goes into that because it's such a long cooking process, the quality of the product today. And we can talk about this later is just beef is not like it used to be. Okay. So you really. They. If. If a. If a franchisee started, maybe their business slowed down or something, they're. They're looking at ways to cut cost, not operate the business correctly, not handle the product correctly, you know, and it. And to me, I just. Finally just sat back and talked to. When I talked to Bruce and the rest of them, I just said, hey, man, I mean, this is a struggle. We're not getting anywhere, and we could just do this ourself and. And operate a good business. Yeah, they're just. They're just. They're not helping us at all. So as their leases. Because none of them. The Lubbock own their building, but they just. As their leases ran out, we just let them, you know. Yeah, we just. They didn't renew.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Any final advice, anybody listening to this that might want to franchise?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, I think you got to. I think franchising is good. I think it can help you grow your business. I think people look at it today as scaling the business to sell it. That's. That's the big deal today is scaling the business to sell it. Right? So. So in. In when. When venture capital guys are looking at it, they're. They're looking at, does this have legs? Yes. Does this have legs? Does it have growth? I mean, can we grow it bigger for the money we're going to put into it? And so I think you have to have a great operator. You have to have a. Somebody that's got more than one unit. You know, they. They're. They're used. They've got. They. They've got multiple units that they're willing to add to their portfolio is, you know, your restaurant concept. And then. And, you know, I think they. You just. You have to vet them really, really good because, you know, I. This is a barbecue is a hard business. It's a hard business.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah, it's definitely.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, it's a hard business.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Oh, why, like a couple sentences. Why is barbecue hard? If somebody's listening to this and they

[Skeeter Miller]

say, I want to get into barbecue because it's. It's heavy labor. It takes a long time to cook it. You have to keep it. You have to. You have to have people that you pay, that you pay well, that are gonna. That. That have to watch that product. And at the same time, you know, like I said earlier, no cows. The same. They're feeding them differently.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Serious about that. What did you mean by that?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, what. Some are big, some are small, some have been in the feedlot and they've eaten corn, some haven't. Some are grass fed.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So when you say they're not like they used to be, were they more consistent?

[Skeeter Miller]

Oh, yeah, they had plenty of fat on them. Yeah, there was, there was a lot of, there was good, good marbling on them. Let me give you an example. We, when we baby back ribs, great product, we couldn't afford them when we first opened. That's why we did beef ribs and beef ribs were like 25 cents cents a pound. Now they're like 5 bucks a pound. But, but so baby backs, you know, the more I look at them. So what we do is we're preparing food fresh every day. Every single day we're cooking fresh food. We start the briskets the night before, but then we have to have enough, we call it holdover to get us started at lunch until the other products come off the pit that we put on that morning.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And so yesterday's barbecue is tomorrow's lunch.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yesterday's barbecue, whatever's left. We, if you've looked at all of our charts and everything we look at everything that we are having hold over every day, we never want anything. We want to use everything that's held over the following day at lunch. Okay. We want all fresh food coming off. And sometimes we're down to like two briskets and three racks of ribs and we're waiting for those other products to come off. But we want, that's, that's, that's our model. So I started noticing that the baby back ribs were dry. The, the holdover, the fresh were pretty good, but the dry. But the, but the holdover, all of the fat had been rendered out of them in the cooking process. And they were dry. They just were, they just weren't the same. And I wasn't willing to sacrifice, you know, the value that the customer was going to have to pay. And so I took them off the menu and, and started using. But I started working with St. Louis ribs has more fat cover. It's a good, good, good rib. And so we, we started that and took the baby backs off. Of course, you know, you got the two each big two week bitch factor with the customer. So what we did was we cook a little bit of baby backs and keep moving forward with the St. Louis on the menu. And when we had the customer that didn't want, didn't like these ribs, then we would bring out some of the baby backs and some of those ribs and let them try. I mean, clearly the St. Louis were better.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Skeeter Miller]

And so that's how we. That's how we turned over the customer.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah. I'm curious. I had, you know, Dean and Peeler out of San Antonio, just outside of San Antonio, Dean and Peeler

[Skeeter Miller]

Farms.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I mean, what they, I thought was interesting is they vertically integrated the whole farming process from artificial insemination. I don't know if it was artificial, but like selecting the semen and then, you know, inseminating the. The cow and really controlling consistencies with the DNA so that. And then they also have their own feed like situation where they, they grow their own feed. So they, they own the entire, like, chain, everything that goes into producing that final brisket. So they know that they can keep it consistent to the very end. I see this being a, a thing I hope that we replicate because it seems to be able to lower the cost of the meat if you can. If you own the entire chain of the, the vertically integrating all the business parts to it up all the way from like processing to production, where they will work with you in their production facility to create an end product. Say like fajita meat with your seasoning cut to your specs. And then you just get shipped a bag of the heat of me in the. Your, you know, intellectual property, your recipe. So you're also taking labor off of the table for the restaurant. But it's, it's the whole chain. I. And his selling point was that it's way more consistent because we, we control the, the animal, that they all have the same diet and they all have the same DNA.

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, that's a great concept.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I don't know.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, I, you know, we get a lot of people that bring products to us that are, that are finished products.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Skeeter Miller]

You know, they're just, they're just not the same as what we do.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You know better than I do, man.

[Skeeter Miller]

You're closer the issue. And some of them, some of them are okay, but I've never seen the, the reduction in my costs go down and my labor go down in that, in that part of it. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

We haven't even gone into the, the, the 2000s. I think in your story, in your timeline, most of what we talked about was 20 years ago.

[Skeeter Miller]

Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

We haven't talked about what the past 20 years has been like. The most recent 20 years. So by the time you get into the 2000s, you. You're no longer a franchisor.

[Skeeter Miller]

Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You own six.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Country, sorry, county lines. Where were you in the early 2000s and from like, from closing all the franchise locations to where you are today? What has the Growth. What has the evolution been? Because you haven't opened more locations.

[Skeeter Miller]

No.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So get into what that last.

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, we did. We did open more locations. I mean, we just have closed them.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Okay.

[Skeeter Miller]

Okay. I mean, Westheimer was one of them. We opened another concept called Cannoli Joe's.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

When did that happen?

[Skeeter Miller]

Oh, my gosh, it was probably about 10 years. I'm not good with the years. 10 years ago. Yeah, 10, maybe 12 years ago was Cannoli Joe's. And it was a concept that we saw in. We had a partner or a guy that came in that was a chef, and he had seen this concept called Marche. And it was in Toronto, Canada. And it was like a place that had Italian food, but they were producing Italian food in all these different stations and different types of Italian food. Gourmet. You go in, you walk through the buffet line and you get what you want. And it's a set price. Set price menu. And of course, then they had the. I think they had a beer and wine license. So anyway, so we said, okay, well, let's, let's. That, this looks good. We flew to Canada, we looked at it, and we bought a piece of property here in Austin, Texas, because we like to own our properties. And if things don't go well, then you have a. You have an exit strategy where.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah, appreciating.

[Skeeter Miller]

Recover. Recover some of your costs. Yeah, recover all of them. So. So we. We created this place that was, I have to say, was phenomenal. It was. We created an Italian village that was in about a 12,000 square foot space and there was a. You weaved through the streets. We made it like streets in Italy. In each cooking station, we didn't have shaping dishes. Those are ugly. We had vessels, cooking vessels, different cooking vessels that had meatballs or may have every kind of different Italian food that you. Minestrone soup we had. And it was like an old stove that had the soup on it and you. We had wine barrels have been cut in half and, you know, flipped upside down. And they had the plates in them. You just grabbed a plate and you went and got whatever you wanted. The salads, we probably had 10 different salads that were made fresh right there. We had an ice cream station where you could go and get all these different ice creams. And it was in each room had a different feel to it. And if I would have done it in El Paso, Texas, next to the army base, based on its price point, would. It would have been amazing because it was 895.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Damn.

[Skeeter Miller]

For all you can eat all you can eat.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Damn.

[Skeeter Miller]

This is how funny people are. They would tell me when I would see them, they go, man, I love that place. But, you know, I just can't go there all the time. I just eat too much, and I go for 895, man. Just put down the plate. Put down the fork.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You don't have to win.

[Skeeter Miller]

You don't have to. Yeah, it's not like you have to win. And. And so, you know, I. Is. Is. Is. Is. We worked at it so, so hard because the labor in. That's pretty high. I would make. Yeah, yeah, it's. Make it. So we did jazz night, and we tried everything under the sun music, and. And it just. It just didn't fly. And still. Still to this day, I look at that concept, and I still have people ask me, so Cannoli Joe's was so good. What happened? You know, the problem is, is Austin's a foodie town, and to tell people you go to an all you can eat restaurant, and I think the name was a little cartoony. Cannoli Joe's. If it had had a Italian.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah. It suggests it's like a dessert place.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You know, it was open in 2000, and it closed in 2013.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Thank you, Chachi BT thank you.

[Skeeter Miller]

Appreciate you. Thanks. Thanks for helping my memory.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

No, and I. I would. I would have to admit, I would be one of those people that would keep. That would keep going back with the plate. I would. I would have to do that, like, a once a month or once a year thing, because I went to an all exclusive. Like, an exclusive resort in Cancun for a week, and every. All the food was paid for. All you had to do is leave a tip. And I gained, like, 10 lbs. Pounds in seven days.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I would. I would be one of those people, like, I feel like I have to win.

[Skeeter Miller]

So, I mean, you could. But. But you could literally go to Canoli Joe's and say, I'm just gonna get a salad. Yeah, but people can't do that.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah. Right. And I have learned. I mean, what are the challenges with a buffet? Because this was a buffet, right. At the end of the day, it was a buffet. So to your point, high labor, because you have all these different stations. And what are the other things that are challenging with a buffet?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, I. I think there's a lot of waste, you know, a lot of waste. I felt like that we had scaled that down only because we only made enough for maybe five portions. So there was somebody always working on a fresh portion to Refill. That there was. There was waste involved. And, you know, one of the things was, is that, you know, my business partners at the time, which was the same guys, it was just Bruce and Ed and I believe Rocky. I believe Rocky might have still been alive. They. They just didn't. They didn't want to do private events for some reason that we. That was a battling point. And I felt like that we have to do private events. We've got one, two, three, four different eating spaces that are all separated.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

12,000 square feet.

[Skeeter Miller]

12,000 square feet. And it's beautiful. Yeah, we spent a lot of money and. And so finally we did start doing them, but it was. It was almost too late. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I've heard that buffets are a real challenge, to your point, labor, but also cost goods.

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, everybody's perception is, is I'm not going to name the places, but they're just like feeding troughs and they're not. There's. It's no, it's like these places, you just. I don't know. And it's all food that's not made fresh. It's usually canned or, you know, poured out of a bag. And that's just not what this was.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah, it's a real challenge to do. I've heard that. It's, it's. People don't consider how hard it is to pull off a buffet. Yeah, it's a really. It's a real challenge.

[Skeeter Miller]

So live and learn.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah, great lessons there. So then, I mean, the other thing I think is really important from my little research, I don't try to. I limit myself to no more than an hour, usually like a half hour of research to, like, get a feel for the person I'm about to talk to. I don't like to know too much because I want to be curious, but it is clear that you are very involved with restaurant associations.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

From the, the city level and the state level. When did you start getting involved?

[Skeeter Miller]

Oh, it was about. Oh, my gosh. It. It was actually a long time ago. I just don't know the date. And. And I'd have to look back at the date when I closed this. When I built this kitchen on this end of the county line on the hill and then close the other kitchen we sent. You know, as. As county line grew, that old kitchen that we built with it that we did for $65,000 was falling apart. Okay. I mean, the tile floors were a problem. You know, the health department was, you know, we were getting decent scores. But, you know, they said, hey, you're going to have to, you know, you're. You're going to have to do all of this remodel. You're going to have to do. You're going to have to change some stuff. And we knew. We did. You know, the equipment was old and we had to do a lot, and, you know, the expense in that was going to be a lot. So I had a relationship with the health department. This is when I started learning that, that you. You have to build relationships, okay? It's super important. So I went to the health department and I sat down with them and said, look, I'm really having trouble. I've got to build a new kitchen, but I need. I need to continue to operate. So they said, well, here's what you got to do. We've got some people that are not good stewards in this city and are not doing a good job. I won't name them, but you're going to create a committee, and you're going to get these people on the committee, and you're gonna start teaching them how to run their kitchen better, okay? I was like, oh, my God. So it was like. It was like a death notice, right? So I did, and I got them together. That was the. That, you know, if they're not my employee, they don't listen very well. But anyway, I was doing what they

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

call you to come in to my restaurant, my business.

[Skeeter Miller]

So. So anyway, I got through that. But. But it taught me that. That there's two sides to everything. You know, there's the health department side. They come in. You know, they're going to come in right at, you know, 12 noon or whatever. And then there's my side, my perception of what it's like to have them come in. And that's when I went to them and said, hey, I think what we should do is bring some of my managers together with some of your health inspectors, and let's get down in front of them and let's talk about what it's like for me as a restaurateur for you to come in and do a health inspection. And then I want them to tell what it's like dealing with a restaurateur when they come in to do a health inspection. It was amazing the input that happened between the two places. It really helped both sides understand that, hey, when you come in, you just can't come in and start telling us this, this, this. We need to take the time for you to explain to us what we need to do. How can we make this better? And you know, we understand you're going to come in at noon, but is there any way to work around different Things are still going to be the same when you come in. And so they started hiring more inspectors that were. Had been in the business, you know, so they could understand it. So that was, that was the start. And then, you know, I started working with the Texas Workforce Commission. And there's. At the workforce commission, there's, there's commissioners for the employer, there's commissioners for the employee, and then there's the main commissioner. And so I would call over there and talk to the commissioner representing employers and say, hey, I want to bring my guys over and I want to, I want to talk to you about the, the things that we're up against, and I want to hear what you're up against. I found out that there's a whole legal department within the workforce commission representing employers. No longer did I have to hire a labor lawyer. Not that I had to have one all the time at $700 an hour, I could call them and talk to them. I built a relationship there that is still, still there, that we call each other when, hey, we're thinking about this new permit fee. I want to know. I want to know how it's going to affect your business and what you think about it. And, and one of the, one of the. I think one of the things, the highlights for me doing that and dealing with them was is they were going to raise all of the health department fees for everybody. And I said, no, I don't think that's fair. I don't think that's fair to the food truck. I don't think that's fair to the smaller operator. I'm clearly a bigger operator. You know, there's, there should be different fee levels.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You don't make the barrier of entry so out of reach for.

[Skeeter Miller]

So I said, I think what we ought to do is Don Hastings was the interim health inspector because David Lopez had left. And David was fantastic. I said, what we should do is I think we should have stairstep the fees according to your size of your restaurant, but at the same time. So there's a fee cost to. To this to the city for doing it inspection. You know, they, they have their budget too. So I get three inspections, the next level down gets two inspections, and the next level down gets one inspection, which would be a food truck. And so I said, but if we score above a certain score, then we would get less inspections and we would get a lower fee, and there's an incentive program involved. And so he said, I think that's a great idea. And so what we did is we created that program. I went to speak in front of this, the Texas State health Department associations to explain our program that we had in our city and it was extremely successful. So that just when you're asking about advocacy, I've taken that not only from, from you know, where I started to the US Department of Labor. I've done the same thing with the direct, we now have a director here. I've met with them. We're on a one, on one basis to where we talk to each other about, hey, can I ask you a question about this? It's not you, you know, used to go to a phone booth and put in a quarter so they didn't know who they were talking to. You know, so, so now, I mean it, it's, it's, it's pretty amazing. The workforce Commission, you know, now I go and, and I testify at the Capitol, State Capitol. I work in with the city. I do a lot of testimony at the city level. I've actually gone to Washington. We, we, we do a lot of things. I think, I think what I've seen is, is that lawmakers make a lot of decisions, but they don't really a lot of them, some are in our industry, they understand it, but there's a lot more that does. So you have to, you have to educate them. And what happens is, is when you're honest and you, you really bring a good picture to them, a good concept of how a law should be. You're never going to get everything you want, but you can meet halfway. There's trust. And that's one thing with the Texas Restaurant Association. Emily KN and her team Kelsey, they have, they've come in and they've helped build trust. They bring, they come to the table, they explain things, they, they show how it affects an operation or a company in the restaurant business in which really affects all hospitality.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah, I think the Texas Restaurant association does a really great job. I've had Emily on the show. They've been great to me in the past helping me connect with, with restaurant tours across the country or across the state. I also have like a kind of a bad taste with other state run and national associations where it doesn't seem like they are working for the small mom and pop right where their money comes from. Their sponsors, yes. And their giant conglomerate organizations that are, you know, the 1001000 plus unit operators are, that are really leveraging that association to change laws in favor of Large companies.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I, I don't think. I don't see that happening with the Texas restaurants.

[Skeeter Miller]

No, that's not happening. I can tell you that.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I think it is important that we say more state operations, at least state should be operating like the Texas restaurant.

[Skeeter Miller]

And I think, I think, I think that's really clear. I think that a lot of those state, those state associations see what we do when you, you know, McDonald's got

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

out of the National Restaurant Association.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah. And so I think they're, you know, I can't speak for current leadership in those other state locations. There's some that do better than others. And I, and I know that.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And I don't know it either. Like.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, I just. Yeah, but I think that, that the Texas Restaurant association and I have been chairman of their board before is, Is the benchmark for way one should be run.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I think it's pretty obvious where the National Restaurant Association's priorities are when you start talking about the, the state level. I don't. There's 50 of these things. Right. So like. Or whatever, however many there are, I don't know. I don't think every state has an association, but it's. Yeah, there are some that do it better. But I do think that Texas is a good leading example of how it should be done because I've heard time and time again of how they really do work. They do take time and energy to take care of the small mom pops. There's also a lot of big organizations in Texas. Like in Texas, you have Whataburger. How many locations they up to?

[Skeeter Miller]

Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Like, there's some really big Texas brands.

[Skeeter Miller]

And we love, we love the part in Texas. We love the Whataburger partners. We do, yeah, they're on our board. But the smaller, the smaller operation, I got to tell you, they're like, right now, Kelsey and Emily are on the Texas tour. They're going to all of the chapters around the state and sitting down with them to talk about what issues are affecting you. These are the issues. We got the next legislative session coming up in 27. These are the things we got to work on. This is what we're working on on immigration. This is what we're working on with, with the health departments. And so they're. They're in tune to what's happening. It's not just somebody pays a membership fee. And you know, but the other thing

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

too is I think a big reason why the state level and national level associations went to bat for the larger companies is because that's where the money was coming.

[Skeeter Miller]

Coming from. Sure.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So if you as a independent operator, want to make sure that these associations are looking out for you, then get involved.

[Skeeter Miller]

I think you have to get involved. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

What's their incentive to look out for your interest if you're not signing up?

[Skeeter Miller]

Right. A member. Yeah. And it's so sad that, you know, when. When I think about. When I talk to other restaurateurs, a lot of times they say, yeah, we really need to get involved. But, you know, you guys are getting all of this done. No, you. If you. It's not that expensive. Get involved in it.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Now you've got a $300 a year.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah. You've got a whole network of people that can help you with issues that. That you're up against. I mean, look at, look at what Emily and them did. The Texas Travel and Tourism Fund after Covid, they. They helped formulate and work with Chip Roy on PPP funding. We may not have had that if it hadn't have been for them, but the Texas Travel and Tourism Fund governor said, we've got X amount of dollars in this. If you've, you know, fit the guidelines and send in the information, you can get $20,000. Yeah. So I had. I had all my restaurants do it, but a lot of restaurateurs didn't do it. People that weren't a part of the association didn't. Didn't pay attention, didn't know. So there was so much money still left in that they said, we're going to come back and we're going to do it for $225,000. And so I had my accounting department with all our laptops hit and send on the day that it went in. And I was able to get that funding for my four Texas stores right when a lot of other restaurants just didn't know about it.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And that's the power of a network.

[Skeeter Miller]

It's unbelievable.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You go further together, but the network is going to lean in the favor of those people who are showing up.

[Skeeter Miller]

Up.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And if you want those networks and associations to show up for you, then you have to show up. You have to. You have to show up and leverage those resources and influence the values of those entities and say, no, like, we want this, but, like, they have to go to work for the company. Like the. I'm talking about like, independent versus, like, giant corporations.

[Skeeter Miller]

No, no, I get it.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So, like, you know, we have to show up as independent operators to. To be. To make noise. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You know, so, like, what are you doing to show up to make sure you're getting what you need?

[Skeeter Miller]

And, and they need, you know, they need to hear from different OP small operators because when you go to the Capitol, you know, there's lobbyists, there's this, you know, Emily and them, you know, are an association, but they need strong operators, small operators, medium sized operators and large ones to come because their boots on the ground, that's the things that the legislature wants to hear. They want to hear from the business owner. I mean, sure, Emily and Kelsey are going to be there to testify and go up against big issues, but you just need to have the boots on the ground folks too. And it makes a big difference. I put it this way, it made such a difference in the trust that they have. I was asked to be on the property Property Tax Relief Commission with the House of Representatives and I actually got to be in the Capitol and be with the House of Representatives to talk about property tax relief in Texas for, you know, not only homeowners, but businesses.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah. So happy we got to talk about this because I think it's important. But how do we start today's conversation? Do you remember the quote you started with?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, yeah. If. When you think you've got it all, all figured out, that's when you're going to get kicked in the teeth. But I've also got another one that in the restaurant business and when it comes to advocacy, if you're not at the table, you may end up on the menu.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah, yeah. You have to show up.

[Skeeter Miller]

You have to either.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah, for sure. And what I'm curious, I mean, speaking about just like, if you're not constantly evolving, you're going to get kicked in the teeth. Right. Like 50 years, you've seen so much in terms of how the industry has evolved and where we are today in trying to stay relevant. Like, would you say that the, the most recent years, like, how does the mo. Or I should just ask, how do the most recent years, the past 10 years compared to the previous 40 years in terms of rate of evolution in trying to keep up with things?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, I think, I think there's a lot of regulation that comes, that comes in the last 10 years. You know, administratively is a little bit harder to handle. You know, being in different markets, in different counties, in different cities, each one is handling something differently. And I think that's super, super hard because, you know, the, you've got paid sick leave over here, you've got different overtime rules over here, you have different, you know, rates of pay. It's amazing. That's why, you know, Emily and her group and I have to. To toot their horn. Worked so hard on regulatory consistency to try to get all these counties and everybody operating the same and having the same silo. Yeah. And so anyway, I think it's, you know, I think. I feel. I feel like we're in a good place with our local department, the labor department, workforce commission, you know, wage an hour, everything. I just feel like that there's just a lot of laws that get passed that really affect. Affect the little guy, you know, a lot of things that regulation. Well, I'm trying to think of the latest one that. It'll come to me in a minute. But I mean, I just, it's. I have to change all my accounting software to do something that's administratively a big cost for me. You know, like in Albuquerque, the city of Albuquerque has one minimum wage rate, 1 paid sick leave rate. I'm in Bernalillo county, which is in Albuquerque, and they have a completely different set of rules. So do I lose employees because I don't apply to this higher rate, or do I get employees to this lower rate? So those things are. Those things affect my business. And so I'm just trying to think of anything else that there's just.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

What about outside of like regulatory. The world of just doing business. I feel like the industry is evolving so fast where the game is different. Like, for. I think you're. For example, you went from Joe Canoli or Cannoli Joel to fly right. Which are two extreme different business models. One is 12,000 square feet, buffet, high service, high touch. The other is QSR. And you started that in 2017.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So you kind of seem like you have been evolving and trying different things in the market too, to evolve for the times. Is that safe to say?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, that's safe to say.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So I guess, like, I'm just trying to get into your mind. How are you trying to evolve or what have the struggles, the challenges for you, Ben, over time as the industry seems to be evolving?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, I think. I think Covid set a different tone. And we're just trying to build back from there. And right now, given the fact that we're the center of the plate, is. Is beef trying to control those costs? It's the cattle herds are way, way down we go. We used to go through like 5 million pounds of beef a year. You know, we're trying to. We're trying to keep our costs down. Because if you go to a high end steak place, you know, when you Walk in the door, what the check is going to be. But when you go to the county line, a barbecue place, we're almost at this. We're getting to beef. Yeah, beef is beef. And so, you know, just. Just trying to. Trying to change the business, trying to. To add different things that were. We've got our regular barbecue platters, we have light platters. We're doing a lot of private event business where we're trying to sell. We do a rib rub experience where people get to come in, and it's interactive. They've got. They've got. We've got 35 different spices out there. You start with the bottle companies. Buy. Buy this, you know, as a. As a team building, and they go down and they make their own deal. We have a machine that shakes it all up, and then we put their logo and their label on it, and it's a takeaway for the people. It's just a neat piece. We do the same thing with our barbecue sauce experience. We got your. Your rib rub spice experience. We've got our gift boxes. You're just trying to add different components to your business to try to stay relevant.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And we were in the experience economy.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

We went from the service economy to the experience economy. Now they say we're going to the transformation economy, which is. I'm going to be getting the author of that book on the show pretty soon to dive deep into that. But speaking of transformation, like, your business has probably had to transform, too, in terms of, like, the. The technology associated, like, have you up, like, even just updating your technology. What is your tech stack today, for example?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, I mean, as far as point of sale, you know, we went from none to dcs, which was a cash register system, to the Squirrel system, which was Romanco, and then went to Squirrel, and now we're with toast.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Okay. When did you make the switch to toast?

[Skeeter Miller]

Probably about. I want to say about four years ago. I'm. It's been a great change for us. I was not. When. When the first handhelds came out, I was. Before toast. I was not really for that.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Why?

[Skeeter Miller]

Because I wanted the. I wanted the waiter to have eye contact with the customer. I wanted him to talk to that. That hasn't been a problem at your restaurants.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Would people write down the order or was it always just memorized?

[Skeeter Miller]

No, it's. It's all on toast.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

No, before that.

[Skeeter Miller]

Before it was.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah. So, I mean, I still think, like, that's one thing I push back at. Like. Like, I know I personally wouldn't be Able to memorize an order for a table of two, let alone eight. Right. I would be writing things down. So you're still looking at a piece of paper. But I, I, I hear what you're saying, that like, that people are like almost lost in the tablet where they

[Skeeter Miller]

never make eye contact, but they've gotten really good at it.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Skeeter Miller]

You know, the, the deal is, is that, you know, I'm 71 years old. You know, I may have a hard time with technology. Right. These kids don't have a hard time. Right. I mean, it's like nothing to them.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Right.

[Skeeter Miller]

They're in tune to the customer. They're, they're putting that order in. Not as many mistakes. Things come out in the order they're supposed to come out in front of the customer. It's supposed to come out to not, you know, the lottery. Who's got this, you know, it's cut down on, you know, our, one of the things that we're really good at, I think, is we, we're, we're good at responding to the customers. Great comments. And if negative comments, we always respond. It's not some, we don't outsource a company to do it or some AI. Okay. I mean, we do it ourselves. And so that means a lot to the customer. And if there's a complaint, that's a real issue. It's coming from the corporate office.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah. So, so you're using toast. What, what else are. You said you mentioned that you might have to update your, your, your accounting software. Have you done that?

[Skeeter Miller]

Where we just. Well, one of the things that WI fi was so bad in our restaurants that, you know, it, we couldn't, the toast handhelds wouldn't work or it goes out. And so, you know, I've upgraded. I'm spending the money to upgrade. Excuse me. All the WI fi at all the restaurants. It's been amazing. It was, was funny when you're, when your system goes down and you can't get a check, the worst thing you want is if you're at lunch and you're on a timeline and somebody goes, well, I'm sorry, our system's down. We're working on it. We'll get your check in a minute. Before wife, we started upgrading the WI fi. I had a system where I said, we're not going to do that. Okay, here's the deal. People that just pisses people off.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah. You're holding them hostage.

[Skeeter Miller]

So this is the price for lunch. I don't give a shit what they had on their plate or what they drank for lunch, it's $10. That's what they pay. And if it's at dinner time and I'm just throwing out a figure, but it was around $10 when we started. It was $15 at dinner.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Skeeter Miller]

What happened was they just. Everybody just pulls out $15. That's what they pay.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Skeeter Miller]

And they're like, this is amazing. You guys are amazing. All of a sudden, we took a negative to a positive positive. And in the meantime, finally, things come back up, but people walk away.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Something's better than nothing. Right. And you don't want to hold them hostage.

[Skeeter Miller]

Service is everything in this business, I'm telling you. You know, after Covid, I started, I go out to eat, just to see what's going. Going on in all the businesses, whether it's my competitor or who's doing what. And, you know, it's. It's kind of like sometimes you go into a restaurant and you're paying good money, and you feel like that that waiter is making you feel like you're lucky that he's waiting on you, you know? And I walk away from that, and I'm never coming back. A lot of people are that way. Not everybody responds. So I think that besides your food being consistent, you have to keep your facility up. I notice if a facility is not being kept up, that means they're having a problem. Yeah. When they have a saggy banner out front, that's a problem.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Skeeter Miller]

Okay. And so, but the service piece, you know, we have customers that come here, and we work on this all the time, but we've got customers that have been coming for 16 years on Thursday night. They come here, they sit in the bar, they order food, and we call them the table of knowledge. Okay. And so I started. I got with Scott and our marketing team, and I said, we got a lot of people that come here all the time and are great customers. There's a lot of memories. They come when grandma's here. So we start those customers, we start getting their name. And, hey, we want to make a plaque for you. And so those are posted in the bar or wherever they are. There's. We've got them on the wall where it's next to the table. Somebody had a family member that passed away. They love County Line. They wanted to come to County Line in their memory. We've got that plaque on the wall. Yeah. And so those are. Those are touches that you just can't personalize it.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

It's your bar. It's your restaurant.

[Skeeter Miller]

Right. And then, you know, we, we've always been a family restaurant. So one of the other ways we've been able to grow our business is, is that we've always tried to do happy hour, but people don't go to county line to, to happy hour. So we've worked on it and worked on it. And then down the street from this particular restaurant is a company that's got like a thousand employees that are in the 30 year old range, you know, and so they were going to some other places, happy hour, once they leave work, because it's close, waiting for traffic to die down and they weren't getting the service at the other places and they started coming here. We do a happy hour business that's amazing. And now we've got regulars that are here. They come here after work, their husband comes in and orders it to go. The happy hour customers take to go with them when they leave. They come in and have a nice drink. We got a beautiful view. They get to see their friends. And it's, it's, it's a, it's amazing. There's a day park that, that used to be nothing that is so easy in the bar. And, and we noticed it when, when covet hit because they weren't there. Yeah. And so when we opened back up, it was like, I just remember, oh man, we're really missing the happy hour piece. That company down the street, I won't mention their name, is not here. And then one night I came up here to eat dinner with, with my wife. We're sitting at this table and I look out there and there's 35 young people on the patio all drinking. And so I said, I got to go talk to those people. Of course, my wife is always, I always want to talk to the customers. I want to know, hey, how are you doing? And, and I go out there and I said, hey guys, you guys. It's just so, so glad to see young people back in the restaurant. They were from that company.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Oh, really?

[Skeeter Miller]

And they said, yeah, we're so glad to be back to building number three. Number one and two are where they work. So whenever the buzz place, the buzz is around the business. Hey, we're going to building number three. So that's what we call the bar now.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

It's so important to have that third party space. And we lost that. And I think that people forget how important it is to have a gathering spot.

[Skeeter Miller]

Sure.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

We kind of lost that for a while. I think with the, you know, people don't leave home, they have no need. Like literally today you could sustain and never leave your house. Everything you need can be dropped at your front steps. But we forget that we're, we're tribal creatures. Like, we need human connectivity.

[Skeeter Miller]

We need that.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And it's amazing that we're willing to sacrifice that human need to connect and to be around people for the sake of convenience.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah. Well, it's coming back.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Because I think we're starting to realize.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

That we've been on this diet of human connection. Like, we're not. We're not connecting like we used to and like, why is everyone depressed and sad and. Because what we think is social connection on our phones, on these apps.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Isn't the real deal. No, that isn't connection. You know, the only way to connect

[Skeeter Miller]

zoom is not connection.

[Eric Cacciatore]

No, man.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

We have to be together.

[Skeeter Miller]

We have to, we have to be together. And, and it's, it's more intimate and you know, when you can come into an atmosphere like we have here to, to be together, break bread, you don't have to be all dressed up. You can have a good time and be treated well. That's what, that's what people want.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah. So I'm curious back to the, the conversation of technology. Like, I can only imagine how having to keep up with the times. Right. How challenging that is, how to transform your business back end like the backside of your business to be relevant. Are you doing like, are you like, updating a website? Social media, online ordering.

[Skeeter Miller]

Our marketing team, Scott and our marketing team just updated our website again, where they're always working with the website, making it better, making it easier for people to work around. Get. Find out. Hey, let me go to the private events. We have webcams that we have at the restaurant so you can see what's going on. What are you looking at? You know, El Paso looks at the mountains. We have. Social media is something that Scott and our marketing team have. We must have started that right at the beginning of social media. And we, we. In fact, I got to ask this question when I was speaking the other day. It says, so do you do all your social media from one. Your corporate location? And we don't. We have a social media manager at each one of our restaurants. And it's usually one of the younger kids that loves the phone and loves to take great pictures. And then the content, my marketing guys, they. The content they work on with them. And so it's, it's honestly, it's amazing what they do. So that's part of our manager finance meeting. Now we have the social media Part, they get up and do their social media presentation. They show the pictures of everything they, the. The postings that they did that month. They talk about the analytics of how many people it reaches reached.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Just like before the. The P. Ls. Now you're doing the social date.

[Skeeter Miller]

And. And then next thing you know, then the private events team gets up because I have a private events director in each one of the restaurants and one director in our corporate office. And. And they get up and talk about all the things that they've done. What are we doing now? What are the things that are effective for us? The buyouts that we do. They just, we just. Companies are coming in and saying, I want the whole place. It's cheaper for me to rent this whole place out than it is to go to, let's say, a hotel to book something out. And, and they have bands, we have longhorns that come. We got chicken shit, bingo. They pay for. We do. We do. I'm serious. They got a lady that's teaching them how to rope. We're doing. Teaching them how to do line dancing. We got guys that do leather work. Just all these parts and pieces that they add.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Really embracing the experience. Experience economy.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah. And then, you know, updating the bar packages. You know, okay, so we have this bar package down here, then we have the Texas bar package, and then we have the Southern bar package. So they, so. And it's set to be, this is how much you're going to pay per person per hour that they're there. And so they know what it's going to cost them. That's what they want to know.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So are there any new adaptations or new adoptions you've had in terms of how you do business, New technology, new ways of doing things that have really impacted or moved the needle for you over the past couple years as things evolve?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, you know, I'm, I'm. That's a good question. And I'm just trying to. We've talked about so much.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Open or. Sorry, you're on. You move the toast. Are you using all that?

[Skeeter Miller]

Resi is a big deal for us. We used to never do reservations. And. And so it was always people called. It's. Oh, it's first comes, first serve. And so I, I was sitting there going, you know, when my rest. When I go out to eat at a restaurant, the first thing they asked me is, do you have a reservation? And so that's when. And I, I must have been eight years ago or so. We started using resi and I just finally Said, guys, we got to start taking reservations. Little bit of a factor there. Yeah. But we got to do this. That's the technology we have to do. People want to know that they have a table. If they call you. And they're used to. All the other restaurants are asking if you have a reservation, and you say, first come, first serve. They're not going to come there.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Well, yeah, and they're going to.

[Skeeter Miller]

And we'll make. Just so you know, we'll make. You know, they have certain settings on there. We're taking those reservations. You're still used to getting there. And they say, okay, we have your name. You go to the bar and you have a drink. Okay. Something's going to come available for you.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah, yeah. I think today, you know, you see these restaurants that have the long lines out the door or the waiting area that's full, and sometimes you wait there for like an hour and a half to get a seat. And it's. To me, it's like, almost like a. It's hospitality, it's service to say you don't need to sit here waiting an hour and a half to get a seat when you can get in line online. And we'll text you 15 minutes before your table or half hour before your table's ready, and then you show up, and it's just like, it's respecting other people's time.

[Skeeter Miller]

Sure.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You know that that technology is there today. Why not leverage that technology? Why not respect people's time? Maybe that line out the door looks really good when people drive by. And that's the art argument that I want people to see that this is.

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, that's the problem, is they're just gonna drive by.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Right.

[Skeeter Miller]

Okay. And so I will not sit in an hour.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

No meal is good enough for me.

[Skeeter Miller]

You know what's really sad is, is that. That I see happen a lot is that after Covid, you know, staffing was hard. So they've got a line out front, and you come in and there's tables. There's tables all over the restaurant.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Skeeter Miller]

And so what are you going to do? Are you gonna. So are you gonna tell them that, well, why can't I sit at that table? So what we did was in that interim is we were building back up. I took. No, I took all the tables out.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah, yeah, I took.

[Skeeter Miller]

I took the tables and put them in the warehouse. Yeah, that. Now, you know what's funny is, is that you've. You've kind of find. You kind of see a sweet spot there when you think about it, if you were gonna do another restaurant, what size should I make it? Yeah, because my bar sales went up a little bit because that people were waiting, you know, 15 or 20 minutes for a table so they were having a drink or an extra drink. Labor costs went down a little bit, you know, because you didn't need as many folks. So maybe you did, maybe you did X number of less business, but you might have put a little bit more money on the bottom line.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah. Yeah. Anything else relative to tech stack that you've changed recently that's been more efficient, more intuitive. What are you using for your, your, your accounting system now? I think you mentioned you had to change that.

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, we're, you, we're still. I'm, I'm going to draw a blank on the accounting system and that's all in house, but we're still using that. We're, we're still using the same thing, but we're in the process of changing. And, and that's what, that's, that's why I pay a controller.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Skeeter Miller]

Okay.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah, yeah. I think that's one thing you need to get off your plate.

[Skeeter Miller]

Great. Great. Planes is who. We've been using their accounting firm. Yeah. Yeah. Whether it's accounting system, we do all our, we do everything in house. We do every bit of our financials. We do the only thing and we even do the only thing we outsource is our taxes, our tax work. But we have our former controller that prepares all of our taxes and then we have a tax consultant that looks them over before we file them.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Do you think that that is something

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

you're going to be able to do long term, keep it in house? House. Or is there going to get to a point where you have I got too many people.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah. You know, I got too many people that work for me for a long time and this comes up a lot. We haven't found, we haven't found that it's cheaper to outsource those things that could change, but we haven't found that it's cheaper. And, and we need to be involved in it while it's going on.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Right.

[Skeeter Miller]

You know, I mean there's, you know, so many, so many places ship their bills off to be paid or whatever. No, our guys in here, they take the bills, they mark the bills, they pay their bills. We reconcile it at the office. We may pay a few things there, but the guy that's in, in with the boots on the ground in the store needs to be paying the bills.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I think you're in A unique position where you've been open for 50 years, where you have these long standing relationships. I think at the end of the day, people are the most important thing, right?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And you got to honor those relationships. But it is, it at the same time, it is interesting the world of technology, how everything's becoming cloud based, where you can have a controller or like, you know, like say for example, Restaurant365 or Restaurant Assistance Pro, where you have these systems that are all digitized and you as a controller can now do way more work because you're leveraging these systems that let you do more with less. And you can do it from one spot. You know, you can communicate with all these different restaurants to do it from one spot. Is that as effective as having your own controller? That is your, like your restaurants are their focus. I think probably not as good as having your own controller. Right. But at the same time, can every independent restaurant owner afford a six figure controller? You know, if they're trying to scale, maybe that, that fractional controller, that fractional CFO might help them get to the

[Skeeter Miller]

point where they can bring in more power to them. Yeah, you know, I don't have to worry about that because you got here. Yeah, I mean, I may at some point, but the bottom line for me is we have a system, we're willing to change it as we have to if there's a better way to do it. If it's going to.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You scaled your business before these were in options.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Right. So you got to that point where you didn't need to think about that stepping stone. But if you're at one or two locations with a goal to get to 10 locations, that might be a stepping stone for you.

[Skeeter Miller]

It would be, it would be you, you'd, you'd have to do it. But I, you know, honestly, for me, I need to be an operator, I need to be operating the business, I need to be in the business. I need to have people that are, that, are that, that I work with and meet with on a monthly basis or weekly basis that are right there in the accounting department I can talk to. So that's worked well for me.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah, I've really enjoyed today's conversation, man.

[Skeeter Miller]

Good. I hope, I hope I've been helpful.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah. We're at the point of the, the chat, you know, where we're at present time. And I like to, before wrapping up, look to the future. You know, somebody who spent 50 years in this industry, you know, the mission statement is to inspire, empower and transform. We inspire with Story. You've empowered us with knowledge and wisdom and sharing how you've grown and evolved as a restaurateur. As we look to the future, we think about where the industry is heading. How do we move into the future intentionally in a way where, you know, we can still have independent restaurants, where that's like. I think it's getting harder and harder for independent restaurants to exist. To your point, the regulation, the cost of goods, the labor is going up. It's getting harder and harder to make it in this industry or.

[Skeeter Miller]

Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Do you agree with that statement?

[Skeeter Miller]

I do, I do. I think, I think that's, you know, personally, I think that the county line, and I'm bragging honest, because I think we have a great team, is that it's an anomaly, you know, the culture that we have, the family atmosphere we have. You know, we don't. When somebody retires, you know, it's like, like what do we do for them? You know, nobody retires. We just had a death in our county line family. You know, it's a big deal to us. So, you know, I just see a lot of operations, I'm not in a lot of operations, but I just don't think there's a lot of soul in a lot of things that are going on. And I, and I'm proud of having that.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I agree. And that's one of the things like my mission. I hope when I say transform the industry, I want to see more 20, 30 unit operators and fewer 100, 100 plus unit operators.

[Skeeter Miller]

Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Because I think at the end of the day, behind every great restaurant is a great person and great people.

[Skeeter Miller]

Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And as you scale that, you can't scale soul. There's, at a certain point, you reach a point where you start diluting the, the people that are behind that original idea, that original brand. And the more you create, the more you dilute that greatness. And I don't think we should settle for more. Like, we shouldn't lose.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Like that is the most important thing.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

That soul is the most important, important thing.

[Skeeter Miller]

I think it is.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

So how do we go into the future to make sure that these communities aren't losing their soul and we aren't losing the soul to giant companies coming in and just making it transactional.

[Skeeter Miller]

And I do know a lot of operators that are friends that have never even been into some of their operations. They've opened so many. And, you know, all I can do after 50 years is hopefully, you know, given, given your podcast or people listen to it and be, be somebody, somebody could reach out to and say, how did you do it? What should I think about when I do it? How can I, how can I have something like you have that, that has some body to it, you know, I don't know. It's a fast moving business and I mean it's. There's concepts that are. I heard on the radio day before yesterday, Tommy Bahamas is closing 45 locations. They don't know what those are going to be. You know, I just, you just have to. You know, when I go out to eat, I like to go to a place that maybe only has three restaurants, maybe only has a few restaurants where they've just, they've kept that. They've magic. They've kept the magic, you know. And like Vespayo is a great restaurant here in Austin. Then we love it. It's little, it's fun. Bartender, I don't care if you've been there, hadn't been there in a year. He knows your name when you walk in the door. That's special.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You just been there for.

[Skeeter Miller]

And you know what? That's free. Yeah. You know, it's not like you have to do something. You walk in the plaques on the walls that we have, the, the touching the customer that doesn't cost anything. The host that's smiling at you and saying thank you, thank you for coming in. We look forward, Mr. Miller, to you come back. That's just, that's that. But I don't, I don't know, I don't know how we keep it. It's. You've got, you've got technology, you've got people that are hooked to their phones. How do you, how do you.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Well, it's all unprecedented.

[Skeeter Miller]

Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You have to give society a break because all this is all new and we're like we're a baby being handed, you know, machine gun. And we don't know how to use it yet.

[Skeeter Miller]

Right.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

We don't know how to be safe with this technology. And we don't realize that this technology is, can be dangerous for our well being. And it is really. We're in. I think we're at war right now. We don't realize it. There is a war happening for our attention, for. We're using this technology to influence people, to divide people. Like we are at war and we're completely ignorant to it. And that's the way they want it to be. Yeah, like that is how they want it to be. They want you to be easily influenced because if you knew the truth about how things worked, you wouldn't be happy. They're trying to distract you and they're using these social platforms to not just market to you, but to manipulate.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah. And persuade you, you know, in order. And. Or, you know, people don't. People don't necessarily. I mean, magazines are getting thinner and thinner. You know, we don't have this intention. So. So now. And you're not, you know, now you watch Netflix, you don't watch tv. So where do you advertise? You're forced to use this to. To be able to market.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You advertise in the four walls of your business and just take care. You have to, you know. But to your point, I think that we are losing soul. I think we don't realize how important the third place is to go congregate and be around people, to connect with people, to talk. And we're. We're losing that. And I don't think. I'm not saying you can't achieve that with a corporation or you can't achieve that with a franchise, but as you scale, there's a certain point where you sacrifice locations for soul. You know, I think you can't have 500, a thousand locations and say that you were the same thing that you were when you were at five or 10 locations, because you're just not. And what we're sacrificing is the human connectivity, the soulfulness of it.

[Skeeter Miller]

We need soul. Sure. And it's hard. It's hard. It's, you know, that's. To expand. You know, we're at six stores and people always ask me, you know, what's the next step? And, you know, I have to really calculate what is the next step as far as doing a. Doing it. You know, I think we.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

What's your vision?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, I think, you know, we really looked at doing Ice House type thing that still got the warrant but doesn't have the size. We love the live music piece. We do. We've got some stores that we had done live music in. You know, there's still a chance for growth. It's just that, you know, right now we're in a time where we're not really sure. We're not really sure, you know, about the economy. We're not really sure. There's, you know, Congress and everything's kind of boogered up and everybody's, you know, at odds. And, you know, you have to be very careful because I have a fiduciary responsibility with a lot of employees that have worked for me for a long time, and you can take a chance on something. And it can go. You can. You can hit a foul ball and it in. And you don't want to take away from the ones that are being successful for you.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You've been in this for 50 years, right. You were 21 years old when you started. You're 71 today.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

How do you, like, what's the future like, how much longer do you want to be in this? What's the plan for after?

[Skeeter Miller]

I'm gonna be in this till I die. Yeah. Okay.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And not to get morbid, I'm worth

[Skeeter Miller]

more dead than I am alive. Okay.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

What's the. Like, what's the plan after, though? Like how, like, you know, like, do you want this to live beyond you, I would imagine?

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah, I do. You know, I think about, you know, employees. You know, I think about it a lot. I. The good news is, is I. I love coming to work every day, but I think about the employees, you know, a plan for the employees to be able to buy the business so they can keep it going. You know, what. You know, if you. If you sell the business to somebody else, they're not going to have the soul or the heart that you have. I see that with too many businesses that do that, and I'm not. I'm not there.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

What's the best way to reward your staff, the people that helped you get here, is to pass the baton, to give them opportunity and to carry that culture, to make it generation.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah. And I don't, you know, my. I have one daughter, and they moved to Portugal because it's cheaper and it's beautiful and. And, you know, but I just was with a group of family out of Chicago, and there's four boys and a daughter, and they're all a part of the business. I just got a lot of employees that have been. Been really good, and. And if I can. If I can in a way transform that, you know, there's. There's some complications to it. The good news is we own our properties. You know, they're paid for. There's a value there. But. But county line's a big part of each one of the cities we're in, and. And people still like us.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah. Especially, you know, here in Austin, where you're. There's legacy here.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You know, I think it's important that. That we have geographic areas, retain their culture, retain their uniqueness.

[Skeeter Miller]

Sure.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And we have to figure out, how do we do that? Because if you don't figure out a way, like, somebody else will come into this space. We'll wipe out that history.

[Skeeter Miller]

The, the long term culture, that's sad.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

You know, so we have to think about how do we do this? And yeah, I'm abusing your time now. We're, we're over two hours and I want to make sure that you, you, whatever you have to do for the rest of the day, you get done. So I'm gonna wrap it up. But I could know that I could keep talking to you and I, Well,

[Skeeter Miller]

I could, you know, I mean, you, yeah, we're stuffing 50 years of, 50 years of so much stuff.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Skeeter Miller]

Into two hours. You know, I, I could. The other day when I spoke to that group, I just, you know, I get up, I get up early in the morning and I was just really, I never get nervous about anything, but I was very nervous about talking to 100 restaurateurs about 50 years of business,

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

talking to 4,000 restaurant tourists.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah. So, and so, you know, the deal is, is just to stay, you know, stay the course, keep the soul, be good to your employees, work on your service. Always be massaging that menu to have an item maybe that's different than you're normally doing. And you know, just, just, you got to love on those kids, man. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Well, there's four questions to ask all my guests. Speed round style before we say goodbye.

[Skeeter Miller]

Okay.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

The first one is, what's one thing about your business? A value, a process, a system that makes you truly unstoppable?

[Skeeter Miller]

I think it's, I, I think it's our culture. Our culture, the love for the food. It's, it's our team. If I didn't have them, I would, you know, we, we may not be here. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

The mission statement is to change the world through inspiring, empowering, and transforming the industry. I think we're going to transform the industry by transforming one owner at a time. How have you personally transformed who are you today as an owner versus the man you were when you first became an owner?

[Skeeter Miller]

I feel like I'm approachable. You know, I, I, I, I think I have a lot of knowledge about the business, but I'm still learning. I'm approachable. I want people to come to me and me to be able to help them. If I can send them with one idea that helps them grow their business. And that's important to me.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

That's really important. This is a doozy. So open your ears, get ready for it. If you got the news, you'd be leaving this world tomorrow. All the memories of you, you work in your restaurants be lost with your departure. With the exception of three pieces of wisdom that you could leave behind for the good of humanity and for your legacy. What would those three pieces of wisdom be?

[Skeeter Miller]

Let's see. Continue the county line. Okay. One, love your employees, too. Take care of my wife. Three.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

That's huge.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah, that's huge. I want to push a little bit further. Continue the county line. What is the county line? Beyond a name?

[Skeeter Miller]

It's an institution that stands for what? It's a. It's a gathering place for friends and family and. And new friends and a place to come and exchange ideas. Maybe it's a political meeting and we're trying to figure something out. It's a place you can gather. Not everybody agrees, but you walk away and you feel good.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

We need to save that. We need to hang on to that. You know, we definitely need to preserve that. So 100% Skeeter man. Thank you so much. I'd like to try to find all my guests by having my current guests refer me to people that they respect and admire.

[Skeeter Miller]

Okay.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

The industry. So who is doing it right?

[Skeeter Miller]

Who.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

If they were to come on the show and they were to share their story about how they have executed what they've executed, built what they built, you know, they're making an impact and they're also making money because we have to. We have to be fiscally responsible.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Who are those people? Who is that person for you?

[Skeeter Miller]

Well, one. One. And you. He's a competitor, I think. I think Scott Roberts, that's got Salt lick. He's been around. I think the family's been around for 200 years. I, you know, so that's one of them. But somebody that's in the. The hotel business, Rob Gillette, he runs Renaissance Hotels here. He is. He is like a. One of a kind. And he's not only a good friend, but he. I was board chairman for Visit Austin for two years, and I recommended him to take, you know, his incoming chair. And he's just got a lot of. He's, He's. He's a lot like me as far as the way he feels about his employees, about. He feels. He's really a great. A great opportunity for you.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I do believe I had Salt Rock or Sorry, Rob. Sorry, Scott Roberts.

[Skeeter Miller]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

On the show.

[Skeeter Miller]

Okay, so you already had him.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Yeah. And Rob, it's the first time mentioned, though, so. So I'm excited.

[Skeeter Miller]

You know, you have to. You have to talk to him. Yeah. There's just something. He's always got something going. He's been. He's been in the. He's been in every business under the sun. But he is. He's a mentor to all his employees, and he's got a lot of longtime employees, just like I do.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Awesome. Well, I literally cannot do what I do without people like you, man. Almost forgot to ask. How can we connect if we want to come check you guys out? Social handles, emails, websites, anything like that you want to drop on us before we say goodbye?

[Skeeter Miller]

I'll. I'll leave that to my marketing guy over here.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Okay, well, just check out the show notes. This is episode 1255. We'll put in the show notes any social handles or emails or anything like that, that if you want to connect,

[Skeeter Miller]

we're on Facebook, Instagram, and I'll let Scott tell you about that.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Perfect.

[Skeeter Miller]

Okay.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And this is where I say, thank you so much, man. I. I know I ask a lot. Two hours is a long time to ask.

[Skeeter Miller]

No, it's been fun. It's. It's really been. Been interesting. You. You've. You've. You've pushed me to bring. Bring back a lot of memories, you know, a lot of things that I've been through. I have a lot more, I'm sure, man, I would.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

I could go four hours, but, yeah, we gotta. I'll run out of battery life before we do that. My cameras will die. So we gotta wrap it up. But I literally cannot do what I do without people like you opening up, getting vulnerable, getting generous with your. Your time and knowledge. So there is no question questioning my man. You are unstoppable. Thank you.

[Skeeter Miller]

Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Cheers.

[Eric Cacciatore]

There's another episode wrapped up here at Restaurant unstoppable. Skeeter Miller, 50 years, going strong in the restaurant industry, hanging on, staying relevant. That is not easy to do.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

It's a true inspiration.

[Eric Cacciatore]

Thank you so much for making time

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

and to share your story today. And if you want to connect with

[Eric Cacciatore]

Skeeter, he'll be live in Restaurant Unstoppable Network on Monday, March 23rd at 11:00am

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

Eastern for coffee with Eric. This is your opportunity to hang out

[Eric Cacciatore]

with me, my guest, to ask the

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

questions you wish I did and to grow your network to go further together. We're doing great things over there.

[Eric Cacciatore]

We're having a blast.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

The conversations are fun, and I'm making it my goal to get every one of my guests in the network to engage you and to share knowledge even

[Eric Cacciatore]

deeper than on the podcast. So head over to restaurantunstoppable.com c w

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

e if that's something you're interested in. Coffee with Eric will get you the zoom link.

[Eric Cacciatore]

The first one's on us.

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

And if you want to be a of all these conversations and all the cool stuff we're doing at Restaurant Unstoppable

[Eric Cacciatore]

Network, head over to Restaurant Unstoppable.com live

[Host (possibly Eric Cacciatore or co-host)]

and be a part of all future conversations. We'll see you there.