1259: Chris Schultz, CEO of Velvet Taco

Summary

Restaurant Unstoppable: Chris Schultz, CEO of Velvet Taco

Episode 1259 | March 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this engaging conversation, host Eric Cacciatore reconnects with Chris Schultz, now CEO of Velvet Taco and a four-time guest on Restaurant Unstoppable. Schultz, renowned for his leadership in scaling restaurant brands (including Starbucks, MOD Pizza, and Voodoo Doughnut), shares his philosophies on building culture, scaling sustainably, embracing failure, and maintaining authentic connection in a rapidly evolving industry. The discussion traverses operational insights, personal evolution as a leader, today's changing workforce, and the outlook for Velvet Taco as it grows.

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Main Themes

• Scaling with Integrity: How to maintain culture and authenticity while growing.
• Leadership Evolution: Schultz’s journey from hands-on operator to culture shepherd.
• Human-Centric Operations: Empowering front-line staff and flattening hierarchies.
• Adapting to Industry Change: Gen Z/Gens Alpha values in hiring, tech disruption, post-COVID model shifts.
• Authenticity & Brand Identity: Why “lightning in a bottle” brands win.
• Strategic Growth vs. Growth for Growth’s Sake: Thoughtful expansion and data-driven market selection.
• Wisdom for Restaurateurs: Humility, gratitude, and knowing your lane.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Chris Schultz’s Scaling Pedigree

• Background (05:22–06:06):
  • Starbucks (15 years), MOD Pizza (1 store → 370), Voodoo Doughnut (4 → 25).
  • Now leading Velvet Taco: 56 locations (4 licensed, 1 franchise overseas).

Core Velvet Taco Metrics

• Unit Economics (07:17–08:34):
  • ~$3 million AUV per store.
  • “Very profitable at store level” (prime cost ~16–18.5%: “We’re on the high side”).

Leadership Mantra & Evolution

• Success Quote (09:00):
  • “It’s amazing what you accomplish when you don’t worry about who gets the credit.”
  • Schultz notes maturity: once it was about “me,” now it’s about empowering others.
  • “I celebrate my failures as much as my successes.” [09:47]

Scaling Culture & Recognizing Limits

• Getting Out of the Way (13:24):
  • Schultz frames himself as an operator more than an executive:
    • "I’m truly an operator... blocking and tackling."
    • At MOD, once the org hit 350+ stores, “It grew bigger than me… I don’t want to grow so big that I forget all the store managers' names.” [12:06–12:50]

The Changing Workforce

• Gen Z/Alpha Employees (14:07–15:53):
  • “They’re way more inquisitive. Why, why, why? Which is phenomenal."
  • "Far more sensitive… Acknowledgement, appreciation. We don’t need a rulebook, just parameters."
  • Emphasizes flat organizations, open dialogue (“My cell number is up in every restaurant, back by the schedule. My personal cell.” [16:59])

Flat Hierarchies & Empowerment

• Entangled Organizations (17:10–18:03):
  • Everyone, from CEO to dishwasher, is empowered to call out issues/violations of values.
  • Notable Book: That’s My Bad – About leaders acknowledging mistakes.

Owning Mistakes and Learning

• From Control to Shepherding (25:20–27:41):
  • Early at Voodoo, tried to process everything tightly—learned to “just let the brand breathe.”
  • Amplify the “why"—don’t impose your own narrative, but help discover and nurture the brand’s core.

Simplicity, Authenticity, and Brand Core

• True to the Core (32:44):
  • “Simplicity—stay true to what made you good.”
  • Schultz warns against chasing every trend (e.g. ghost kitchens), and instead focuses on tools that enhance, not distract.

Adapting Post-COVID

• Permanent Shifts (36:46):
  • Multiple pickup options & convenience channels are here to stay.
  • Third-party delivery: “A necessary evil… but you lose control over the guest experience and food quality.” [37:41–40:14]

Leadership: Humility, Ownership & Team-Building

• Limitations & Surrounding Yourself with Talent (41:44–43:03):
  • “If I’m the smartest man in the room, I need a new room.”
  • “This is OUR team… not MY team.”
  • Value of being the ‘dumbest in the subject’ to learn and foster greatness in others.

Fostering Connection at Scale

• Practical Tactics (57:27–60:42):
  • Schultz calls two store managers each Saturday, rotates through teams, sends handwritten notes on promotions.
  • Creates Velvet Taco Advisory Council ("V-TAC") – monthly meetings of rotating store GMs: “They can say anything, anything at all.” [76:48–78:57]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Ownership:

  • “It’s amazing what you accomplish when you don’t worry about who gets the credit.” —Chris Schultz [09:18]

• On Employee Empowerment:

  • “The person that sweeps the floor should choose the broom.” —quoting Howard Behar [20:41]

• On Brand Authenticity:

  • “Authentic brands win… Be the shepherd, not the owner.” [26:13]
  • “When people ask me, 'Should I go in the restaurant business?' I say, please don’t—we don’t need another inauthentic brand!” [26:17]

• On Mistakes & Vulnerability:

  • "The more I allowed people to make mistakes and be comfortable, the quicker we had success." [45:05]
  • “As a young leader, you want to be the superstar… Over time, I’ve realized: did I bring magic dust, or did I just join a great brand and nurture it?” [43:29]

• On Data Overload:

  • “We have a million people in our loyalty program—I can tell you exactly what they ate. But what does it mean? What’s important is getting down in the restaurant, seeing people enjoy food.” [54:55]

• On Growth:

  • “I’d say my specialty is scaling from 50 to 400 units. Understanding the uniqueness, learning process from Starbucks, agility from MOD, culture from Voodoo.” [66:23]

• On Scaling and Human Limits:

  • Discussion of Dunbar’s Number (human limit for stable relationships: 150): “When you get to 150, it becomes us-versus-them… How do you intentionally fragment to control relationships?” [80:02–84:47]

• On Legacy and Values:

  • “Be humble. Be grateful. Never forget where you came from.” —Chris Schultz (his three legacy lessons) [122:13–122:28]

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Key Segments & Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------|-----------| | Chris Schultz Re-introduction | 04:25–06:43 | | Velvet Taco Today—By the Numbers | 06:43–08:44 | | Leadership Mantra | 09:00–10:15 | | Managing Culture at Scale | 11:39–14:05 | | Empowering a New Generation of Workers | 14:07–15:53 | | Open Communication Culture (cell # in every restaurant) | 16:59–17:03 | | Acknowledging Leadership Mistakes | 18:03–19:06 | | Differentiating when to Lead or Get Out of the Way | 25:20–27:41 | | Lessons from Voodoo Donut Era | 41:39–52:08 | | Data Overload vs. Human Interaction | 54:49–56:31 | | Practical Connection Rituals (calls, notes, etc.) | 57:27–60:42 | | Advisory Council & Listening Groups | 76:48–78:57 | | Markets, Expansion, and Growth Philosophy | 85:53–105:04 | | On Weekly Taco Features (WTF) | 101:54–104:13 | | Legacy & Core Values | 121:32–122:28 |

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Tools, Books, and Resources

• Notable Books:
  • It’s Not About the Coffee by Howard Behar
  • That’s My Bad (author not specified; about leaders acknowledging mistakes)
  • Reference to "The Social Brain" and "Generations" books (on social structure and business patterns)
• Tech/Analytics:
  • PACER AI (location and demographic analytics for site selection)
• Organization Models:
  • Advisory councils, monthly connection routines, tactile recognition (handwritten notes)

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Closing Messages & Industry Takeaways

• “Don’t sleep on Velvet Taco.” Schultz urges listeners to experience the evolving brand.
• Authentic brands win. Focus on core product, mission, and true values rather than expanding for expansion’s sake.
• Scaling is not just about size; it’s about becoming better, not just bigger.
• Kindness, humility, and gratitude are foundational for Schultz—values that he believes the industry needs more than ever.
• Advice for Aspiring Restaurateurs:
  • “Be humble. Be grateful. Never forget where you came from.” [122:13]

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Final Thoughts

Chris Schultz’s journey underscores the importance of humility, listening, and championing others—whether leading at 4 or 400 stores. Restaurant Unstoppable’s long-form format surfaces how great leaders adapt, the hard truths behind rapid scaling, and why brand authenticity and human connection, more than ever, are keys to sustainable restaurant success.

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For Further Reference

• Connect with Chris Schultz: [e-mail]
• Velvet Taco: Website
• Show notes & resources: [RestaurantUnstoppable.com]

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Summary by Restaurant Unstoppable Podcast Summarizer (2026)

Transcript

[A]

A couple things before we get started today. First, thank you so much for showing up week after week making my vision for restaurants Unstoppable come true. Your downloads are allowing me to do this show the way I've always wanted to do it. Boots on the ground, word of mouth, leaders, referring leaders giving the industry an uncensored, no BS platform to share their perspectives and truth. That's on you. Thank you so much. And we're just getting started. So if you're enjoying what we're doing here and you want to help us do it even better, please subscribe to this podcast on your platform of choice. And if you do that, I promise to do everything in my power to continue to improve the show. I'll deliver the restaurant tours you want to hear from and we'll continue to make everything you love about this show better. Thank you. Welcome to restaurant unstoppable. For 10 years and over 1,000 episodes, I've been traveling the country chasing word of mouth leads and having in person only long form discussions with the industry's finest owners and operators. Our mission is to inspire, empower and transform the restaurant industry by bridging the gap between this generation's leaders and the next. Listen to today's guest and so many others and get one step closer to becoming unstoppable. This episode is made possible by Siboney your all in one bookkeeping and financial solution. We're talking about reliable tax preparation, business incorporation, seamless pay in compliance reports, strategic CFO services that drive business growth, detailed custom reporting for complete financial clarity, dedicated support for restaurants in multi location businesses. Did I mention bookkeeping late? Sir Bony Handle the numbers so you can focus on the vision. Call Sir Bony today at 281-888-2413 to schedule your free 30 minute consultation and discover House BONY can streamline your operations and boost your bottom line. Limited time Offer an exc to Restaurant Unstoppable listeners. Mention this Message and get 20% off your first month of services. This episode is made possible by US Foods. Running a successful restaurant takes more than just great food. With US Foods, you can expect more high quality products, advanced tools and flexible deliveries to grow your business. Their industry leading moxy platform also does more than just place your US Foods order. It uses AI to help you take control, save time and increase profitability. Visit usfoods.com expectmore to learn how to to become a US Foods customer one more time. That is usfoods.com expect more this episode is in partnership with Giving Kitchen. The restaurant industry takes care of people. That's what we do. But historically, we haven't always been great about taking care of our own. That's why I want you to know about Giving Kitchen. They're a national nonprofit supporting food service workers facing real crisis, medical issues, accidents, unexpected hardship, the kind of thing that can really derail a career. Since 2013, they've helped more than 35,000 restaurant workers across the country and awarded over 17 million in financial assistance and stability resources. If you're an operator, chef, or anyone, food service, this resource is worth knowing. A lot of restaurants choose a rally around Giving Kitchen because at some point everyone in the business knows someone who needs it. Go to givingkitchen.org to learn more and see how you can be a part of it in your own way. This episode is brought to you by Restaurant Technologies, the leader in automated cooking oil management. Their total oil management solution is an end to end closed loop automated system that delivers, monitors, filters, collects and recycles your cooking oil, eliminating one of the dirtiest jobs in the kitchen. Restaurant technologies services over 45,000 customers nationwide. Automate your oil and elevate your kitchen by visiting RTI Inc.com or call 888-7-5314 to get started with excitement, allow me to introduce to you today's guest back on the show. Not once, not twice, not three, four time repeat guests on the show. I love them. That must that much. CEO of Velvet Taco, Chris Schultz. My man. Chris. Are you feeling unstoppable today?

[B]

Eric, I'm completely feeling unstoppable.

[A]

You are, man.

[B]

Dude, it's so good to see you. It's been, it's been a while. So great.

[A]

Last time you were on the show is episode 745. This is episode1259. You've been busy. I've been busy.

[B]

You've been busy.

[A]

We've been busy, man. It's been great. So you know, to this day I quote you talking about scaling. You got to find your culture carriers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you know what's funny? When I had Clay dover, the former CEO of Velvet Taco, on the show, episode 819, about a year after I had you on the show, I quoted you in his episode and I was talking about you and your approach to scaling, finding culture carriers. And it's just crazy to think that now you're here with Velvet Taco.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I thought that was a little serendipity.

[B]

What a crazy story. Yeah. No, I appreciate you. I appreciate you having me on. As I said, it's crazy. I'm at Velvet, right? Yeah.

[A]

So a little context for Chris, or about.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Chris first started with Starbucks. You're there helping them scale. I think you were there 15 years.

[B]

Almost 15.

[A]

Almost 15 years. You went from there to my pizza. You went. I think they were like in the 20s or something. They had a few. One store from the store, very first store, you brought them to, like 300 stores.

[B]

370 when I left.

[A]

370. And then from there you went to Voodoo Donut. That's when I last connected with you. I think you brought them from 6 or 19 to 24 locations.

[B]

4 to 25.

[A]

4 to 25. Wow.

[B]

Man, we're close.

[A]

That's crazy. That's crazy. Well, you know, the Internet's not always spot on, but you've been busy, and so you're a master of scale. And you're gonna do it again. I mean, Velvet Taco today. Why don't you just paint the picture real quick? What is Velvet Taco today?

[B]

Yeah. So VELVET, we're at 50, 56 locations, including four licensed locations. So we just entered two airports in Houston. We're soon. There are a couple of other airports, but predominantly in Texas. We're in Chicago, Atlanta, North Carolina, Fort Lauderdale, one in Arizona. But predominantly you're gonna find us in Texas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio, and then Dallas is where our home base is and where majority of our stores are.

[A]

All right, so you have. Let me make sure I got this right. 56 total locations. 4 of those are licensed.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And then you also are getting into the franchising overseas, correct?

[B]

Yes, sorry. We have one store franchise overseas.

[A]

So you do a little bit of everything?

[B]

A little bit. Everything. Well, I opened, you know, I opened 10 mods in. In the UK back in my day, and I spent a year there with Starbucks. So I knew the uk. UK business pretty well. But yeah, the. My very first week here, day three, we opened in London. Yeah. So talk about setting me up for success and. Or failure, right?

[A]

Yeah. So if you guys want to learn more about Velvet Taco, you can check out Clay Dover's episode. That was 819. That was a great interview. And right now, so 56 locations, four license, one franchise.

[B]

What?

[A]

Like, you know, obviously the QSR.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Elevated QSR. I would say high quality ingredients. Can you give us an idea of, like, per unit, like, unit economics, like, what you guys are doing?

[B]

Yeah, I can give you a ballpark. Right. We're about $3 million EUV across the enterprise. You know, some do better than others. But it's a strong brand. Right. Chef driven crazy tacos. Right. Think about the best meal you ever had and put in a taco. And that's what velvet tacos all about. You're not going to find quesadillas or burritos. You're going to find this really, again, interesting type of tacos. The only find of Velvet.

[A]

Yep. So 3 million per unit average. And in terms of prime cost, how's that split up?

[B]

Well, you know, again, I don't want to go too much detail. We're privately held. Right. I will tell you I'm gonna push

[A]

us for as much as I can.

[B]

And you should, and you should respect as the fourth time guest, you'd expect me to give you more. I will tell you we're very profitable at the store level in today's economy and kind of where we're at today. As you know, the industry's changed. Yeah, right. 20% unit contribution or 20% sleeve or whatever way you want to define it. Used to be the gold standard. That was kind of it. That number's changed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The numbers change with commodity prices, labor prices. Now you're looking at, you know, I think the best of us are between 16, 18, half. Yeah. And I would say we're on the high side of that.

[A]

Okay, cool. I think that gives us enough information. I don't want to push too hard. So averaging 18 across your units, 3 million total revenue. And I mean, that's good. You got 56 locations. So you guys are doing something.

[B]

We're doing something. Yeah. Yeah. We're making some things happen.

[A]

So let's go back to where we left off five years ago. But before we do that, we have to get that motivational, inspirational ball rolling with us. Exactly. A success quote or mantra. What do you got for us?

[B]

Yeah, you know, and I was really thinking about it because it's my fourth time. Right. I had to come up with something crazy. Crazy. But then I thought, you know what? Really let me go back to the core of where I really started and going back to the experience. And the core is what this conversation is going to be about. You know, it's amazing what you accomplish when you don't worry about who gets the credit.

[A]

Ooh, I love that.

[B]

Who?

[A]

I've heard that one before. Do you know what the source of that is?

[B]

You know, I think there's about four or five people that take credit for it. I'll take credit for it today. But I think, I think it goes back to. It's a president's Quote, actually, to be honest with you, and I wish I knew off top. I shouldn't know off top of my head, because I have it on my wall.

[A]

I know it's.

[B]

I just don't have a name with it.

[A]

And that's the most successful restaurant tours they do. They realize that they can't do it with other people. It's about getting out of the way and creating opportunity for those other people and giving them the credit.

[B]

Boy. Yeah. If you'd asked me 15 years ago, it was all about me, right. As I was growing in role. Right. Fifteen years ago, I was like, I'm gonna lead the charge. It's all about me. I'm gonna do everything. And I think I've learned over time the unique difference. Right. Between not really worrying about it. Right. Let things happen and celebrate successes. Right. We talk a lot about it. I celebrate my failures as much. I celebrate my successes, and I've really learned to do that now over the last 10 years, and I think that's maybe a better leader.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. So when we last spoke, you were new CEO of Voodoo Dog, I think. Where were you in terms of units when you joined?

[B]

I think we're at store seven. I think it was our first entrance into Houston. Right. That was a. That was that crazy. Right. I think we did a million dollars in. In like, six weeks. Right. We were just selling donuts. We were shuffling donuts in from Austin. There was a line around the block. Our first drive through, and first voodoo in Houston. So I think it was either store five or six, Voodoo.

[A]

When you joined that group, was there a clear goal when you got there?

[B]

No. Right. There was crazy founders. Right. And the founders had this vision of something they wanted to do, but, you know, they weren't. They weren't very strategic. Right. They were a band promoter and a bartender. Right. And they were having fun doing it. Yeah, right. Just kicking cans and making donuts and having a great time in Portland. And they realized we had something bigger than that. Right. So they did like everyone does. They brought in some equity, and then it was time to grow. And so part of. Part of when equity came on, I came on with that to bring in a little bit of structure. Yeah, right.

[A]

It's oftentimes it's that entrepreneur that. That, you know, lightning in a bottle of chaos. You know, like, that's where the soul. That's where the. They're so good at creating something fun that people want to get behind. But when it comes to, you know, maximizing the output or the ability to Scale like you, you need to know when to get out of the way and to hire the Chris Schultz.

[B]

I think so you have to know your limitations. Right. And we'll talk a little bit about Mod. Right. Mod girl point time at 350. 360. That was. That was a limit for me. Yeah, Right. I grew from 1 to 350. I was like, this is going to keep growing and I'm not that guy. Yeah.

[A]

Why aren't you that guy?

[B]

Because it's a different mindset.

[A]

What is the mindset?

[B]

I think the mindset there is more, really. Much more strategic. Right. Much more strategic.

[A]

More strategic. Less what?

[B]

You know, less heavy lifting. Less. Less. Less connection. People. Connections. I'd love to. I love to think I can make connections with people everywhere. But when you grow that big, you forget, you know, all the store managers names. I don't want to grow so big that I forget all the store managers names. Yeah. These guys and girls make it happen every day in our restaurant business. And when I forget who's running that particular unit, it's growing bigger than me. Yeah, Right. Or I can go in a restaurant, they know me. They don't have to look at a picture on a wall and go, oh, that's Chris, the CEO. Yeah. Or where you been? Right. And it grew that point time at Mod where it grown so big and it was great. Right. I mean, we gave so many people opportunities, have jobs and. And make life themselves. And it was wonderful. But boy just had grown bigger than me. It was time for change.

[A]

And then that's when you found Voodoo.

[B]

That's when I found Voodoo. Right. Four units. I knew everyone's name. It just made sense. And you know, Voodoo's Voodoo, right? Yeah. Who doesn't want to go to a brand like that? Cult following, right. There are no rules. Right. You paint your own rules, paint your own limits. It was a wild ride.

[A]

Yeah. So you really kind of creating a niche for yourself as somebody who can take a brand that has, you know, that is lightning in a bottle. And then how do we get this out of the bottle? How do we get it? Control that energy, control that brand. And how do we scale that? Yeah, that's kind of what you do is you really help scale that lightning.

[B]

Yeah. And that's very kind. I think I get out of the way sometimes. Right. I think I get out of the way sometimes. I think I set up. I'm an operator, right. I'm an operator hard. I'm not a marketing person or a finance person. Right. I'm Truly an operator, blocking and tackling operations. And I love being in the restaurants, love being in the restaurant. It's where I get my passion from. And yeah, I've grown. I've grown brands, right. Understanding what we need to put in place when it's time to grow, when it's time to slow down, when it's time to put in more process. Right. And help the brand grow. It's a very interesting dynamic now in today's world. Right. Our restaurant employees are very different. Right. They're looking for something different. They don't need a rule book. When we grew up, there was a 20 page rule book and we followed the rulebook. It's a very different employee base now. Right.

[A]

How is it different? Get into how it's different.

[B]

Yeah, they, you know, two things. First off, they're way more inquisitive. Why, why, why, why, why? Which is phenomenal. And they're far more sensitive. Far more sensitive. You know, in today's world, I think it's acknowledging it's something we should have been doing forever in the restaurant business. Right. Acknowledging hard work, appreciating folks. And I think this employee base that we have today, they're in that world, Right. That's how they grew up. And so we're learning, we're learning a different way of doing things. Right. We don't. You don't have to go by the rule book like, here's our parameters in which we want you get it done. Just follow the recipe. Right. And how you get it done. And then, and then really appreciating, acknowledging accomplishments and hard work and much more singing successes instead of identifying failures. Yeah, right.

[A]

And, you know, we need to be seen, we need to be valued. It's a human need. Of course, you know, of course, as you're scaling a brand to your point, it's harder and harder as you scale to maintain connection. And you get the frontline employees that are at the, you know, there's exponentially more of them than there are managers.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, so how do you let that value of connectivity trickle all the way down to the frontline employer? It gets harder and harder as you scale.

[B]

Harder and harder and harder. And then the reality is, you know, they know more about the brand and more about you than you do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Through this thing called the Internet. I don't know if you know it exists. I just learned about it the other day, but the Internet, right. So people know more about the brand and when they come to work here, they've, they've educated Themselves. Right. They've gone back and done. They've looked us up. Right. They understand the feedback. Back in the day, we'd cross the street for another quarter. Right. Now in today's world, they know about the brand. They know about the experience. They know about everything there is to know about the brand before they choose to come to work here.

[A]

Yeah. I'm really excited about this next generation coming up. I really hope that there are saving grace, because.

[B]

Yes. And I'm digging it. I'm digging it.

[A]

Like, the values they have, you know, it's kind of, I think, what society needs right now.

[B]

Transparent. Yeah. Honest. Transparent. Right. We'll give you feedback. Right. Say it's not right. Right. I just had a conversation with. With a store manager, sorry, a restaurant manager, who we were talking through something and. And he said, kris, I just don't agree. I just don't agree. And I was, dude, I dig that. Like, that's awesome. I want you not to agree. I really want you not to agree. Let's have the conversation about it. And we spent like 45 minutes on one little topic, and at the end, he's like, hey, thanks for taking the time. And I was like, no, no, no. Thanks for taking the time with me to tell me when I'm wrong.

[A]

Do you remember what the disagreement was?

[B]

You know, we were arguing over something financial. Right. Something financial impacted for him individually and his team. Something had been done before I got here, and now was kind of. He was facing those repercussions. But he had. He had the guts, Right. I don't know if it's guts or the. Just the thought to call the CEO and go, hey, I want to give you some feedback. Right. One of the things I've done here is my cell phone number is up in every restaurant. Back by the schedule. My personal cell phone number.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Because I tell everybody, listen, if we're not doing something right, call me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's my job. Call me and challenge me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Tell me it's not right. Right.

[A]

You're reminding me of Tom Walter. I don't know if you know the name.

[B]

No, I don't.

[A]

I think it was Easy Catering or. I can't remember. He's up in Chicago. He wrote this book called It's My Company Too. And in that book, he describes an entangled organization. And what he means by an entangled organization is that no matter who you are or where you are on the hierarchy, right. You have. Whether you're the CEO or the dishwasher, you're empowered to call out the CEO when they're not doing what you say you do. Core values.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

Process and, like, creating that flat hierarchy where anyone can call anyone out. Like, what's the power in that?

[B]

Well, I think the problem is everyone owns it. Then everyone owns the decisions. Right. Because there's no more hiding behind a wall and saying, it's your decision. I'm just doing what I'm told.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. I think part of the. Again we talk about this. This new group of employees. That's the beauty of it. Right. They're challenging us, do things differently, think differently. I'm reading a book. That's my bad. I don't know if you know that book.

[A]

I do now.

[B]

Or that's on me.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It talks about leaders who acknowledge mistakes. Right. And how. How you do that and do that in. With respect. And keeping that. That ego. Right. I mean, so many restaurant CEOs have a big ego. Right. Eric, I don't know if you know that. You've interviewed a few of us. Someone walking with gigantic egos. Right. And the reality is I'm only as good as that person working behind the counter every day. Right. It wasn't so long ago I was that person. Right? Right. That I'm here to earn a living and fend for my family. This may not be my career. Right. Back in the day, we wanted everyone employed to come to the workforce. This your career. You have to bleed, you know, cut your wrist and bleed Velvet purple. No, not so much. Just while you're here, be respectful. Right. Be accountable. Recognize that profitability is important to us. Right. And realize you need to be part of a team. And performance counts. Right. I'm a big. Performance counts. Right. At the end of day, performance counts as a father, as a brother, as a mother, partner, whatever. Performance counts.

[A]

Right. So it sounds like you're walking this. This tightrope between having very high standards. Everyone on board has to be pulling in the same direction, but also realizing that you're not gonna love Velvet Taco as the frontline employee as much as maybe the CEO or the founder is, and recognizing that, you know, like, this

[B]

isn't your primary thing, and that's okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But while you're inside the four walls. Right. You just got to dig it. Right. Grab the OR and row the boat while you're here. Right? Right. We talk a lot about that. We talk about, you know, people say, leave your life at the door when you come to work. How do you do that? Like, that's unrealistic.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Of course you're bringing your life to work with you. Right.

[A]

You can't hit a switch.

[B]

You know, you can't hit a switch. So. So own it, embrace it. And tell somebody, I'm having a bad day. We got you. We got you covered. Right? And I think the more we recognize people are people. Right. And again, you talk about this new group of employees. Remember back in the day when you worked in a restaurant, the chef would be yelling at everybody. Right. Everyone was kind of, you do it or do it or die or get out. How did that happen?

[A]

I don't know, man. Command and control, you know, now it's moving more to that trust and track leadership.

[B]

Absolutely. You know, my mom do it because I said so. Right, Right.

[A]

Well, okay, that millennial, you know, that Gen Z person, that Alpha person is gonna ask, but why?

[B]

But why? Yeah, I know a better way of doing it. Right, Right.

[A]

But when you open yourself up to that challenge, then there might be a. You're, you know, you're opening yourself up to constant growth because they might find a better way to do it. They're. They're the person doing it every day. They see things you don't see every day.

[B]

You know, I quote, there's a little part of Howard Br's book, it's not about the coffee. Right. The person that sweeps the floor should choose the broom. Right. And I think that's even more relevant in today's world than it's ever been before. Right. Instead of giving everyone rules, let's set guidelines. Right? Set set boundaries for them. Wide boulevard, high curves, I think as Scott Swenson used to call it. Right. They'll go right or left, but they'll figure it out. But just set the curbs and let them go.

[A]

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[B]

25. Yeah.

[A]

How did you grow?

[B]

Like I will tell you, I grew as a leader because again I got out of the way. Right. And really focused on a few priorities. Right. Not everything could be a priority for the team and allowing the brand to breathe. Right. Vudu was a brand that was built to be crazy. It's the anti brand brand. Right. I think when I came in I tried to pull it really tight because I come from mod Starbucks process, process, process and realize that Voodoo didn't need a lot of process. Right? It didn't need a.

[A]

Why didn't voodoo.

[B]

It didn't need a mantra on the wall because the brand was built from that.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Right. So we didn't have a mission statement.

[A]

So the brain cut deep, really deep. So you didn't have a mission statement?

[B]

We didn't have a mission statement. So we finally came up with be respectful, be Accountable, do the right thing. Rad. Right. And for that group at that company that worked for them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's all they need to be respectful each other. Respectful to yourself, be accountable to yourself, be accountable others and do the right thing.

[A]

And that was the mission statement.

[B]

And that was the mission statement.

[A]

Are those also the core values?

[B]

They were the core values. That was inefficient, very efficient, kinda kind of crazy. Yeah. But you know, they're making crazy. Donuts are kind of out of Portland. It was kind of that ethos of the brand and kind of this dive bar for donut shops. So that's kind of ethos of the brand. And as you move from brand to band, you know, Starbucks has a huge mission statement. Right. I'm still learning the mission statement here. I'm still trying to figure out if it's right or wrong. Right. I've been here 75 days, so I'm still trying to. It's still fresh, but I think, you know, you start to learn it. And even in the last 18 months, a restaurant business changed. I mean, dramatically.

[A]

It's only going to continue to change dramatically. And I want to unpackage that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Part of the conversation. But you said you got out of the way in, you know, what were you doing? I guess what things did you shed? You said you got out of the way, but you focus on only what you should focus on. What were those things?

[B]

Well, in typical Eric fashion, you're gonna dig deep on me all the time, dude. Which I love and I appreciate, I knew was coming. You know, I think part of it was, was really recognizing the brand was and not trying to make the brand mine. Right. It wasn't Chris's Voodoo Donut.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It had been birthed by these two great founders and being respectful of what they'd birthed. Right. I spent a bunch of time with them and then I tried to convert it into my voodoo donut shop. Right. And how I envisioned to be in and always went back in reality check with the founders, like, hey, we're going to do this. Is that right? Does that make sense to you? We're going to sell merchandise. Does that make sense or is that kind of crazy? Yeah. Right? We're going to run these specials. Does that make sense?

[A]

The lift outweigh the reward, right?

[B]

Is it true to the brand?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Is it authentic? Right. You know, and I know today authentic brands are the brands that are winning, Right. When people ask me tomorrow, like, hey, should I go in the restaurant business? Like, please don't. We don't need another authentic brand. Right. And so be authentic. And so part of that was, I don't have to make the brand mine. What I have to be is a good shepherd of the brand. Right. Right.

[A]

So how did you. You, when you first got there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You were trying to control the brand and make the brand what you thought

[B]

it needed to be. Yeah.

[A]

But you realize that you just needed to listen to what the brand is. But that's hard as a CEO, because correct me if I'm wrong when I think CEO. CEOs are generally really lofty big picture dreamers. Why guys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and you want to steer the why. You want to amplify the why. You want to find that. That you want to like that. We talked about, you know, lightning in a bottle. What is that lighting? How do you define that lighting? How do you use that lightning to inspire others? But you didn't, you know, you weren't the source of the lightning.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So.

[B]

Right.

[A]

How does a CEO go about getting to know the brand? What was your problem?

[B]

I'm gonna roll it back on you. So amplify the why.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That was a great term. And I'm gonna steal that and use it again, please, because that's what I did.

[A]

I steal and use your signal.

[B]

I amplified the why.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. In other words, instead of just asking one question, why and then. And then making a decision, already have a decision made up my head of why. Really be open to the why.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. When I first got there, as example, I did a typical operator, CEO. Right. Let me get a skew rat. Right. Let's look at all the donuts. What don't sell. Get them out. Right. Well, at the bottom of all the sku rat was a vegan donuts. Like, kill all the vegan donuts. We're not gonna sell vegan donuts. And the internal team said, kris, no, no, no, listen. We have a big vegan following. That would be a mistake. And I was like, yeah, but if they bought more donuts, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Just kill the donuts. Not listening to people. Well, I'll tell you, the next four months, we got pummeled on social media. Right. You're not true. They are. You're not core to your. We're vegans. And I was like, please go buy more donuts. But. But the reality was I didn't listen. I didn't ask why, why, why? I just took data, Right. And analyzed my business by data. And sometimes data lies. Right? So there's one example for Me of amplifying the why, I should have amplified the why even more. Like, why are we doing that and why? Why are we not doing this? And so part of that, that's the piece of it. And then also find the core carry, you know, the culture carriers. Find the folks who's been around the brand for a while, right. And sit down with them and ask them, because they've seen enough, process enough change. You know, when people come in, they're like, well, we've done that before. Okay, what have we done before they failed? And what should we be doing? It's not the Emperor's new Clothes.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Right. Sometimes I feel like I told my team there, I'm like, this is. I had an idea. We were talking about something on, on our wtf. We'll talk a bit about the brand. And I said, here's my idea. And they're like, like, this is not Emperor's new Clothes. Like, call me.

[A]

What is that expression? This is not Emperor's New Clothes.

[B]

Yeah. So there's, there's a, there's an old fable about an emperor who, who rolled out in front of. In front of his town and he had someone making brand new clothes, Right. A seamstress. And he was naked and he rolled out, he said, look at my great outfit. Isn't it beautiful? And all the crowd said, oh, it's their most beautiful clothes you've ever worn in your entire life. Except for one little child who said, you're naked, you're naked. He was all unwilling to stand up and say, even though you're the emperor, you're not wearing anything. Right. And so for me, the Emperor's New clothes dictates the willingness to stand up and say, I don't. Even though I'm the emperor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Stand up and say, I don't think it's right or you're wrong. Yeah.

[A]

And that goes back to creating that culture of an entangled organization where people feel like they're empowered. The door is open that you've said, you've created that, that culture, that value of, we want to hear what you. You say.

[B]

Yeah. Every time, every. Every new store I walk into, every time I go walk in a restaurant now and I'm touring restaurants, the very first thing I ask every managers, what's the last thing we made a mistake on?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's how I said, but what's the last thing we effed up? That's what I ask every single manager. And I hear them and they tell

[A]

me, and what's the point of asking that question.

[B]

What are you trying to get at? Well, two things. Number one, I want. Really want to know what. What. What's in it? What's standing in their way to be successful? Because that's the question, Right? The question isn't what do we f up? The question is, what's standing your way to be successful? What decisions are we making that's impacting your ability to be successful?

[A]

So when was the last time you effed up? And then it's why did you f up? Yeah. That's how you get to.

[B]

Yeah. Why did we. Not them. Why do we. Right, so, example, I was in a restaurant, this restaurant we're in today with Carla GM here, who's phenomenal. And I spent a bunch of time here, and I asked her, and she's like, chris, we order from a lot of packaged paper goods. I was like, what? So she walked me through them all, and I went back upstairs to her office and I said, meeting. Bring all the package goods. And there was 41 SKUs. Wow. 41 SKUs and everything. Marketing, supply chain ops. I was like, does anyone agree? 41 SKUs doesn't make sense. And they're all like, it doesn't. Well, it took Carla to call out the fact that we're ordering 41 SKUs, because she'll just keep doing it, Right? She'll just keep doing it. And no one. No one even thinks about. About it. And so. But she'll just do what's asked of her. And so I think those realities are, you know, we're making some changes, some really small changes to our offering. Again, all those aren't driven by me at home thinking of things. It's about asking the managers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And saying what? What are we not selling? And what can we do without?

[A]

Yeah. I want to come back to this because I think it's really important. But in terms of, you know, your biggest lessons with voodoo, before we get deeper into velvet, you said, you know, knowing to get out of the way and just doing what I'm supposed to do. Would you say you're a quote unquote stereotypical CEO in terms of what you're supposed to do?

[B]

I don't think so. I'm an operator. Right. And I'm only Chris. I don't. I don't wear my title on my sleeve. Right. I am Chris. I'm an operator. Be true to the core. You know, voodoo. Same way we're looking at savory donuts. All different things. And that wasn't what we were built on. And people were challenging me. Right. And the reality was stay true to the core. Stay true to what made you. What made you very special. And I'm sure we'll talk about that, because I think that's happening in the restaurant industry now.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. Now. Staying true to the core of what is the restaurant industry.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

What do you.

[B]

In other words, what I'm saying to you is right now, simplicity. Right. And staying true to the core of what made you good. Go back to. To that.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

We're all chasing so many things.

[A]

Well, I think that statement is true within, you know, the immediate looking back to, you know, restaurants, but also on the macro scale of looking back to what is at the core of the restaurant industry.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And going back hundreds of years. So, like, when this industry was born out of public houses.

[B]

Right. Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah.

[A]

And, like, it was the third spot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we've really gotten away from that mindset of the third spot. I think, you know, or, you know, Starbucks talked about the third spot, Howard.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Which is kind of ironic because they scaled like crazy. And it's like, I don't really think of a. How many units did they get up to? Like, hundreds of thousands?

[B]

Well, yeah, they got. They got up to, I think, 25,000. Yeah. He calls it the third place. Is that. Yeah. Third place.

[A]

Howard, you don't really think of a 25,000 unit operator being the third place, but you think.

[B]

Well, his definition was it was a place between home and work. Right, Right. It was a place between home and work. Was a third place. Right.

[A]

Do you think that they lost that over time?

[B]

Completely. Yeah, that's. I think Brent's do. Or what he's doing now. Awesome. I think Starbucks is doing a great job, candidly. Right. I mean, I think people can challenge back and forth, but their recent, you know, the recent announcement and what they're doing is going back to the core. Right, right. Selling great coffee in a great environment and not trying to be everything to everybody, which is a challenge. Right. Because we're all chasing that dollar that's out there today and competition's increased.

[A]

When do you think it was that they went from being in the third place to kind of losing that? At what point?

[B]

Oh, I think coming out of COVID I think a lot of us coming out of COVID were still chasing things. We weren't. We weren't sure if they were going to survive. Drive throughs, ghost kitchens would walk up windows. Would people ever come back to a counter and order again? Ordering at a Bar and picking up at your table. Right. I mean, all of those things, you know, I walk in places now today where it's still order at the bar. Right. And food will come to you where in forever they had servers. Right. And I think all of us were chasing it through Covid. All of us were trying to find the way around it. Dry again, drive through, walk up windows. Ghost kitchen. Where do ghost kitchens go? Right, right.

[A]

Well, I was gonna say, what are the things that stayed? Clearly, I think one of the things that went was ghost kitchens gone. Right. Why do you think that people.

[B]

Because people want to see their food made. They want to go where it's made. Yeah. They want to have the smells. They want to know it's coming from somebody making it.

[A]

Well, it's perfect example that, you know, people don't do business with businesses, they do business with people.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that's a ghost kitchen was a shell of. There was like no human, no personality. Like, you never saw the end result. Like, that is like the most extreme that we've gotten away from the core of what hospitality is, where it's like literally community.

[B]

Well, I think it's interesting because I thought. I think we all thought that was going to happen. But then there was all this pent up. We said stayed at home forever.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And made no connection with people.

[A]

Right. And then you saw like the. The beast burgers of the world that would have successful. You know, I mean, I think you could argue maybe big chickens having some success with. With Shaquille o', Neal, but these are like, what they're. These people are doing is they're building a brand around somebody that has so much influence. But is it a flash in the pan? Like, are they going to stay loyal to Shaquille o'? Neal?

[B]

Like, if you ask me, I think it's again, going back to. I won't. I mean, I buy, I go. I choose to go where I know there's quality product. Right. In quality experience. We talk a lot about the experience running foods, the cost of the game. It's a ticket to the game. If you don't have good food, get out. Right, Right. You only get in the game because you have good food.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And people know good food now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. People have experienced good food.

[A]

Right. And I can't really compare Big chicken to be Mr. Beast Burger, because I don't think Mr. Beast ever got a brick and mortar.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Yeah. And so at least with the big chicken, it's. It's a little bit more soulful in the sense that they, they're operating brick and mortar.

[B]

Yeah, they are.

[A]

So back to this question of we were, you know, post 2020, we didn't know what was going to stick. What has stuck in your opinion? Like what, how did we come out of that? What?

[B]

You know, I, I, I think, I think that, you know, making, making the pickup easier. Right. Giving people a number of options to pick up their food, whether it's from a walk up window or drive up window or counter service that stayed. Yeah. Right. Where before we dictated to a customer where to come get their food. Right, right. You had to get it from the server, you had to get it from this place. Having multiple outlets for food now for people to pick it up is huge. So outlets being, outlets being here we, you know, you can walk up to our walk up. When you go up to the counter, you can sit at your table, you know, we'll deliver it to you. So there's a number of different ways for you to actually get your food. Yeah.

[A]

We're willing to meet you at different points in your life and make it

[B]

more convenient for you. Which I think is came out of COVID 100%. Right. Much more convenient for you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Obviously the third party ordering. Right. And you can order from home now. Right. Where before you couldn't and it wasn't super convenient. And some had delivery, some didn't. Right. Now it's a cost of the game. Now everyone's in third party.

[A]

What are your thoughts on third party? Where do you land in that, that debate?

[B]

It's only because I love you. Listen, it's a necessary evil. It's a necessary evil, right. People live in that space and I live in that space in my world personally. And so I think it's just, you have to be a part of it. Right.

[A]

What? Why is it necessary?

[B]

Because I think people are. Well, it's interesting, right, because we're seeing a little shift most recently. Right. The last six to eight months. A little bit of shift array from it. But convenience, it's convenience, right. I order, I order at home, sometimes at home, even though I don't want to pay the fees. I know the product of the food's probably not as good as it travels. I know all of that and I accept that as it's coming to my doorstep. I think people are now that convenience is going away. Right. I think the younger customer base, you know, they, the convenience isn't necessarily the most important thing for them.

[A]

So the convenience isn't going away. It's just that we're no longer prioritizing the convenience.

[B]

I think so. And we're not willing to pay the price.

[A]

Yeah. So it's a necessary evil. You're saying it's necessary because of the level of convenience. We need to be the. We need to meet our guests at the path of least resistance. And right now that is third parties. Because third parties own the relationship, the habits.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of the guests. So if you just. If you just spelled out the necessary, what is the evil?

[B]

Well, the evil is I'm not. You know, once a product leaves my door and it goes in someone's car and drives to you, I'm not sure the quality of the product. Yeah. What's the.

[A]

No offense to third parties, but what's the. I mean, as soon as you say no offense, here comes the offense.

[B]

Here comes the offense.

[A]

Excuse me, but, like, what is the bar to get over to become a driver for a third party? Like, how are you really vetting the people that are. You're trusting to get food? Like, we don't know.

[B]

Right. Listen, it's the same thing.

[A]

I drove Uber. The process was not.

[B]

Listen, you jump in a car outside the airport with someone you never knew. Right. When I grew up, you didn't talk to someone in another car. Right. You didn't talk to anybody who didn't know. Now you. Now you order one, you jump in a car and don't share a ride. Back when I was a kid, you

[A]

don't even like, see them at the door anymore. They just leave it on the steps. There's like zero human, like, point of contact.

[B]

Yeah, but. But listen, they. They, I think collectively do a pretty good job. Right. They meet the expectations. In other words, they pick it up on time. They deliver on time. They do a pretty good, darn good job of doing. Figuring all that out, the logistics of all that. But I'd much rather you have a meal inside one of my restaurants. Right. I know.

[A]

So the evil is that you don't have the friction between, like the. The net, the nice friction, like that catch point between the guests.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You're missing that relationship.

[B]

Yeah, you are. And then once it gets to you, I again, I. I want. I want you my food fresh. Yeah. All of us do. Right. It's always better fresh. Right. The cookies are always better coming oven than an hour later at home. Right, Right. And so for me, that's the challenge. The evil, if you will, is the fact that I lose the ability to control that environment of that food getting to you.

[A]

Yeah. And they're not going to Associate any negative experience with UberEats or DoorDash. They're going to associate that with the brand.

[B]

And I think there's an argument to be made. Nor should they.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We should figure out if we're going to put, if we're going to put product in that, in that arena. How do you package, how do you make sure the product travels well? All those things. Right, right. Don't offer products like French fries that don't travel well. They'll steam. Right, Right. And when they do, then don't blame the UberEats or DoorDash. Right. You've sent a product, you know, doesn't travel well.

[A]

Yeah. So we've been discussing your evolution over the past five years. You know, you talked about learning how to get out of the way and to let a brand be a brand and how to shepherd that brand.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

As a CEO of a brand that you didn't help, you know, invent. We talked about the, the constantly evolving ecosystem that you had to adapt to third party and these trends that came out of the pandemic. You had to adapt to the shifting culture of the frontline employee as, as we move into new generations. Any other evolutions, points of growth for you?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Between.

[B]

Know my limitations. Sorry, didn't mean interrupt. You know, you were saying. I was just thinking about that. Right.

[A]

So what are your limitations? What have you learned?

[B]

You know, I've learned. I've learned a lot. Learned a lot. Right. I've learned, you know, first off, if I'm the smartest man in the room, I need a new room. Right. And then that's something I never really thought of. Right. Because I surrounded myself, I believe at some point time with people that were just. Yes. People. Right. And now when I go out and I'm looking for folks to bring on my team or bring on our team, I look at folks that are smarter than me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. I use a lot more R than my.

[A]

Right.

[B]

This isn't my velvet. This is our. Isn't my team. It's our team. Right. And I. And I have to think about that. But I. But it's meaningful for me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's really striking a chord with me right now. A lot of what you're saying is resonating with what I'm doing with restaurant Unstoppable. Trying to grow it beyond me to get a team. I also like to think that this isn't my podcast. This is the industry's podcast.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Everything I do is an intention to let the industry do. Dictate who I talk to, like, you're going to refer me to my next guest.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, and.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And me sitting down with you, you know, way more than I do. I'm just trying to surround myself with people who are smarter than I am and then create space for these people to come together and to share information and to be the dumbest person in the room, you know, at least, or relative. Relative to a subject, you know, and there's just so much power in surrounding yourself with the best.

[B]

Holy cow. Yeah. I mean, again, you know, as a young leader, you don't do that. You know, when you're young in your career, you don't do that because you want to be the superstar, right. You start to. You start to read your own clippings, as they call that. Read your own news clippings to start to believe that, gosh, I have to be the smartest man, and I've got to be the smartest person in this room. And. And I think over time, I've really learned, especially even the last five years of Voodoo, right? Because I had success.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

There was success. And so when you start having success, you start to really believe the fact, why, I must have the magic pixie dust, and it must be my decisions that are making all these brands successful, or did I just join a great brand, right. And provide some really good guidance and surround it with some really good people? I'd like to think the latter than the former.

[A]

So, I mean, a couple things are going through my head. I want to know, you know, you helped provide the guidance. I want to know what that guidance was. But you said you also discovered your limitations. I don't know if we've really identified what those limitations were.

[B]

So two things. One is make. Make people comfortable to make mistakes. Allow people to make mistakes.

[A]

And I didn't do that.

[B]

No. Oh, no. Because the mistake was like, oh, my goodness, the end of the world, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How dare you make a mistake, Right? How dare you not do that?

[A]

Was there a story where this became a realization for you where you let people make mistakes, you know?

[B]

No, I don't. I don't think there's one. One particular area. I think over time, though, I started to realize that because, again, I started to count my mistakes, right? All the things that I did wrong, you know, from. From PTO allotment to opening a restaurant in the right location, Right. And I sort of look at them like, hey, I make a lot of mistakes, right? So I don't think there's any one that hits home Sorry. I usually have a story. There's not one that usually hit home. But. But I realized that the more I allow people to make mistakes and be comfortable to make mistakes, the quicker we add success, the quicker we had success. And they. They would bring things to me in the very beginning, like, they weren't afraid to make mistakes. Okay, here's an issue. Just heads up. I'm working on it. If you have any insight, I appreciate it, but I got it. Yeah. But I just want to give this heads up. Yeah.

[A]

The saying fail forward, fail fast comes to mind.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And when you do that and you empower everyone to fail forward and fail fast, what happens?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, you're. Well, obviously you're successful. I just spoke. I did a speech over here about the fear of failure. Right. The fear of failure and the impact of failure. Right. And how strong an emotion it is and how, for me, failures really dictated my success in my career.

[A]

Do you have a fear of failure?

[B]

Oh, of course.

[A]

When did you become aware of this fear?

[B]

You know, I can't. I can't wear this. My wife, Heidi, reminds me of this all the time. You know, when. When I was at voodoo, first time CEO, you know, I'd been at MOD for a long time. I've been at Starbucks, worked for Howard B. I worked for all these really great leaders. And I was at mod, and I walked into voodoo, and I was like, I'm king of the castle. Right. There's four units. Will be nothing. Right. We opened our first restaurant there, and it wasn't successful.

[A]

How'd that feel?

[B]

Holy Toledo. And I had picked the location. I'd overseen the design of it. Right. The interior design of it. Right. I picked everything from start to stop, and how could it fail? Like, I was a guy at MOD. I grew the 370. Of course it's gonna work. And open. It didn't. And no one showed up. And I was like, oh, my gosh, what are we gonna do now? Right. What are we gonna do now?

[A]

Did you feel like your team, the team that put you in place, was starting to question their decision?

[B]

Not I. No. I questioned my decision far more than they did. Yeah. They were like, we'll figure it out. And we had other. The one we went to. Right. Very, very, very successful ones. But. But, you know, my. For a long time, you know, I judged my. My. My success based on my batting average, right? Based on my batting average, like, on success to failure, how well was I doing? You know? And if I wasn't over 700, like, holy Toledo, Chris. That's not success. Yeah. Right. And so I lowered my batting average expectation a little bit to allow myself more free swings.

[A]

If you're doing. 500, you're doing something.

[B]

Right. It's baseball season.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Baseball season's right around the corner. But, you know, I allowed myself to take more swings. Yeah. Right. And be comfortable in my own skin of doing just that and being able to acknowledge mistakes and be able to let my team make mistakes. And for me, in the long term, I think it's lending my success over the time. Right. You know, again, as we spoke about many years ago. Right. I come from a background. I didn't go to college. Like, I worked in restaurants my whole life. And sometimes I look up, I'm like, are they going to figure out today that I don't know what I'm doing? Like, I'm just making this up. And then I get back in the office, I'm like, well, I guess not. Not today. So let's get back after it. Right. Let's back into it and figure it back out again. So, you know, and you know, in the CEOs world, there's. Every day you go through, there's a multiple decision you're making. Yeah.

[A]

If you're not failing, you're not growing. You know, like, you have to take risk, you have to try new things, and not every new thing you try is going to work. But if you just do the same thing over and over again, and in the world that's dynamic and changing around you, you're going to. If you're not growing, you're dying.

[B]

Like, I'm going to question that. So is it about failing or acknowledging failure? That's a difference.

[A]

Another, deeper how many understand.

[B]

Yeah. In other words. In other words, I've failed in the past, but I wouldn't acknowledge my failures. Right. I would blend them over or I wouldn't even take the time to realize there were failures or.

[A]

Okay, so you would kind of like subconsciously, like, bury.

[B]

That's right. Move on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. I think where I made this is when I started to acknowledge my failures and recognize my failures and recognize me to be made a bad decision or recognize many bad direction. That's where it changed for me.

[A]

Yeah. And this kind of brings back to that book that you mentioned earlier.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And why is that? So what happens when you own your failure and you recognize.

[B]

Well, I think everyone. So everyone looks at CEO and they think again, they can't do anything wrong. Right. That's why they're CEO. Right. They're the ones that are making the these decisions. And. And everyone loves a leader. You know, everyone wants a leader. Everyone does. And at the end of the day, as a CEO, you're the leader of the company. Right. The top of the branch, like you're. And I'm making decisions now for what do we have 1500 tribe members here? Velvet. Right.

[A]

Employees? 1500.

[B]

1500, yeah. And so I make a decision every day for 1500 people. Right. No matter what it is I make, I make decisions for 1500 people. Whether that's what Taco we're going to sell, how they were going to be open, a marketing program, a benefit, whatever that is, it's going to impact everybody at some level. And so I take that very honest, very sincere to heart. So I think that's part of the DNA of learning how to be a great leader is recognizing that when you're making those decisions, you are impacting everybody. Yeah.

[A]

So back to.

[B]

We.

[A]

We talked about, you know, we just went deep down that rabbit hole.

[B]

Yeah, Sorry.

[A]

No, I love rabbit holes. But I want to come back. I want to identify. I think the other thing I wanted to get is that you helped guide the. The team of Voodoo. So relative to your role as a guider.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What are you proud of in terms of where you guided Voodoo? How did you guide them? Well, from where they were when you came on board.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You left them.

[B]

Yeah. I think again, for me was. It was a lot of growth that happened inside the enterprise. Right. Young brand, young folks, young in their career, young leaders. Right. All are in their careers and helping them to grow along with the brand. Right. Helping them to realize and acknowledge where they can go as leaders. You know, when you're. When you're four restaurants strong, you're not hiring senior level people have been around the business for many, many years. You're hiring a few. Some people are really kind of entry level.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who are just starting in their careers or been around for four or five years and, you know, it's the next phase of their career because, number one, you can't afford it. Number two, you're not very attractive. Right. And so you bring on these leaders who have had a little experience in it. Right. And now you make them in charge of stores or in charge of development or in charge of marketing and watch their success as they grow. And for me, being a guide is like, again, setting up those framers, like, here's my experience expectations. Now you go figure it out. Right? You go figure it out. Yeah. And I'm gonna Be here so you can check back along the path on whether you're going the right way or not. But I'm not gonna tell you how to get there. And I think that's where I've kind of learned over my, my career and I'm most proud of Voodoo is all the folks that have gone on and been grown in their careers. Right. There's a great leader over there running operations who is with me as Voodoo, sorry, Mod. And was like a new store manager, opener manager. Now she's like the VP of Ops. Right. So there's that piece of it. And then the other element of that was again, ensuring that we're staying true to authentic of the brand. Right. And letting people kind of be themselves. Right. I mean, every brand I've been with now are no uniforms. I'm a non uniform brand, dude. Yeah, right. No uniforms, no name tags. Bu I want you. Bring you to work. Have a good time doing it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there was a point in time in Voodoo I thought, well, maybe we should do that. Yeah. And I was like, are you crazy? Like, this is Voodoo Donut.

[A]

Any other accomplished accomplishments over the last five years since I last spoke to you, things that you're most proud of when, you know, setting up Vudu before.

[B]

Yeah. Well, Listen, we opened 22 restaurants throughout the country, right? Many, many one offs, introduced the brands in different markets. No, no.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Honestly, no. I mean, again, I, I could tell you about a couple failures along the way.

[A]

A couple fires.

[B]

A couple failures.

[A]

Failures?

[B]

Yeah. Failures. Well, yeah, you know, I mean, I, you know, I made a snap decision. We had a restaurant close early that, that I didn't, I didn't necessarily, like. And you know, my comment was we need to, we need to fire the manager. And everybody's like, whoa. But you don't understand, there's a backstory there. And I'm like, no, no, no. Restaurant closed like early. Like that can't happen. You know, you need, you need to make that decision. They did. And then someone told me the backstory. The person had something at home and had to go home and they were only person there. I was like, why don't you guys tell me? And like we tried.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that. That leans really heavy on my head. Right. Because of that, that decision, that impact that individual.

[A]

Well, again, I think it goes back to in. No disrespect, but what happens when you scale is you get so many people points removed from that, you know, frontline person.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't. There's not enough bandwidth, human bandwidth. A Potential bandwidth from an individual to cover that many relationships.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So at some point, like I like to say, behind every great restaurant's a great person. And that restaurant is a reflection of the person and the, as you scale that person or their, their vision, their, their values, their, their business. Business, as you scale it, you're pulling a little more out of that person, a little more out of that person. You dilute that person's impact. Because there's so much the people, the front line people can't get the source of energy, the source of inspiration, the source of why from that. Because there's so many points removed. At some point they're like, you just dilute the brand.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I don't know what the, the solution is. I have ideas and I really try to keep my mind open to scaling businesses. I try not to be close minded to these companies. I have scaled to these numbers of 200, 300 because there's so much we can learn right. From those people. But I do wonder like how, like how big is big enough? It's like.

[B]

Yeah, well, right. That's a founder's paradox. Right? Founders who started and birth it. Right. So one unit or two units or five units or 10 units. I think you got to spend a lot of time, you know, asking a lot, asking a lot of questions. Right. Understanding what's important. Right. I can't be in every conversation, every meeting. Right. Right. I've got to trust and I've got to understand and I've got to ask a lot of questions. And then at the day we just got to grab hands and leap.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, I mean, and I think so many times we get paralysis by analysis.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Especially in Taj World because the phone provides us so much data, so much information. Right. It becomes almost like a get frozen right in time. Right. I mean, when I came to Velvet, there, there's. I can. We have a million people in our, in our loyalty program, a million people subscribed and I can tell you exactly what they've ate, what, where they made it, what time they ate at. Right. There's so much data there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But what does it all mean and what's important and what should we be looking at? And so that's a paradox I have in today's world. While the. There's so much information now, but what's important.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what's important for me is get down in the restaurant, see people, see them enjoying food.

[A]

So even with all this data.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's still the most important thing is getting FaceTime Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah. 100%. Right. FaceTime with a guest. FaceTime with the customers. FaceTime with the team. Right. I think at the day, we're human, to your point. We're people serving people. There's always someone selling a taco across the county. Donut or a cup of coffee or pizza.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that connection is so important. I think the moment we lose that. That's why I think Ghost Kitchens kind of got squirrely. Right. Because there's this huge connection that you make. And I feed people. I mean, that's what I'm most proud of. Right. I feed people. I feed their hearts, I feed their souls. I feed their stomach. I feed people. And for me, once I lose track of that, if I'm having a bad day, I walk down to the restaurant. Restaurant and hang out. They're like, where'd Chris go? He's in the restaurant. No one knows. Someone's made me mad. I'm down the restaurant now. Having fun again.

[A]

Yeah. So you mentioned in your. I think it was either I listened to your last episode we did together. So I can't remember what came from previous conversations versus this conversation, but I think you said around when you were with Mod, it was around 300 locations or that you started feeling like you were losing the connection.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When I spoke to Clay Dover a year after speaking to you last, he said when he was with Velvet, he started struggling as a CEO when they were going from, like, I can't remember where he. I want to say he was around 24 locations when I had him on the show five years ago.

[B]

Probably. Probably.

[A]

And it was going from 24. Now they're at 56.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

That at that point, 24. He was starting to experience like I used to. To have every manager's number in my phone. I knew all the managers, and now I don't. It's getting to the point where, like, I'm losing the connection.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So what is the solution to. As you scale, to keep people connected?

[B]

Well, I think for me, I have to make time. I have to make time like. Like making time for a budgeting meeting or a marketing meeting or. Right. I have to. I have to schedule time to make sure I'm continuing to make those connections. Every Saturday. I call two restaurant managers every Saturday morning without fail, just to connect. Right. For at least in my particular seat. Right. The other part is making sure that our folks are out in the field. Right. We all get very comfortable in the office. It's very easy to get in the office.

[A]

So does each restaurant have its own manager?

[B]

They do.

[A]

So just one manager per restaurant?

[B]

No, we have, we have. We have a general manager. Many times we'll have two or three assistant managers in the restaurants.

[A]

Manager. You're talking about all those, like, all those hats. So do you just cold call them? Because you can't possibly know all these people.

[B]

Yeah, they know me. I don't know them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But they know me.

[A]

So you make time.

[B]

I make time. And I say, it's Chris. And I don't say, Chris Schultz, CEO. I say it's Chris. And if they don't. If they're like, Chris Seal, I'm like, chris Schultz. And they're like, they know my name.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Now, Texas, they know me here because I'm in the restaurants all the time. Yeah. But you know, I called a store in North Carolina this weekend and they didn't know me. Yeah, it was cool. It was even better.

[A]

So you call, you say, hey, this is Chris. Chris who? Chris Schultz. Oh, then what's the next question you ask?

[B]

How's your life? How's your life? You know what's important for you right now? Again, what's the last mistake we made? What can I do to help you do your job? Easier or better. Right. Then I always ask them about their personal life. Right. We don't know each other. Do you have somebody? Like, are you married? Single partner. Like, what's happening in your life, in your world? And many times they'll stop and then they'll tell me, and then I write it down and I make a note for everybody.

[A]

Where does this live? What's information do you have? Like a store manager CRM?

[B]

I hand write it. Yeah, I hand write it. That's right. I write notes. Every site, every time we promote a store manager, I send them a handwritten note congratulating them on being part of Velvet. Yeah, because it's important. Because I kept those notes when I was back at Starbucks in the Growth. And I get a note from, you know, from Dave Olson, who was the head of coffee that one time. Happy birthday. Happy anniversary. Now, I know it's oversold right now. Like. Well, that makes you such a cool connection. No, it's just the right thing to do.

[A]

How much time do you put aside for this? Do you have a routine where, like every day.

[B]

I do, I do. I put aside. I put aside at least five, about four and a half, five hours a week where I dedicate to it. Right. Hour on Monday, hour on Wednesday, hour on Thursday and on. On Saturday mornings. I try to make the calls while I'm out running errands in the car mostly. Right. Just calling managers. But the other points is checking in with our, with our directors. Operations oversee the stores. Right. And how are they doing? Yeah. What's happening in their life? And hey, is there a manager I need to call? Is there anybody on the fringe?

[A]

So is it an hour each one of these days? Is it a combination of making phone calls and writing letters?

[B]

Okay, yeah, correct. Like, I had one this morning. I called one of the dos in Houston. I was like, how's your team doing? Is there anybody need to call? Like, everybody doing well and not well, meaning through a good job? Like, is anyone having a rough time? What's going on? And yeah, they've. We've got a couple that have kids that are sick. And I'm like, I'll give them a call. And they know. They're like, okay, Chris, give him a call. Yeah.

[A]

This episode is in partnership with Giving Kitchen. Restaurants run on tight margins and even tighter teams. Anyone who's been in the business long enough knows one injury, one diagnosis in one family emergency can take a great employee out overnight. That's where Giving Kitchen comes in. Giving Kitchen is a national nonprofit that supports food service workers in crisis. They provide emergency financial assistance and connect workers to resources like housing support, counseling, and physical and mental health appointments. Not someday, but when it's actually needed. Since 2013, they've helped more than 35,000 food service workers and awarded over million in support nationwide. This isn't theory, it's cooks, dishwashers, bartenders, and servers being able to keep their apartment, get access to mental health resources, or cover bills when recovering from an injury. Operators keep Giving Kitchen bookmarked, not just in case they ever need it, but because they want their staff to know it exists. If you're in the industry, this is an organization you should know about. Learn more, share it with your team, and find a way your restaurant can stand alongside the work@giving kitchen.org this episode is brought to you by Restaurant Technologies, the leader in automated cooking oil management. Unstoppable restaurant owners know which services to keep in house and which services to outsource. And oil management is one of those things you should outsource. Their Total Oil management solution is an end to end closed loop automated system that delivers, monitors, filters, collects and recycles your cooking oil, eliminating one of the dirtiest jobs in the kitchen. Create a more efficient food service operation and ensure consistent food quality with a safer, smarter and sustainable cooking oil solution. Restaurant technology services over 45,000 customers nationwide, including countless past guests on the show. Automate your oil and elevate your kitchen by visiting RTI Inc.com or call 888-779-5314 to get started. So we're at the point of the conversation where I want to make the transition to talk about, you know, where is Velvet Taco today? But, you know, I like to talk about the awkward things, too. You know, you always do, because it's, you know, you gotta wonder. You like to take brands from, you know, four to 300. Why? Why get off the voodoo wagon? Like, why? Why make the change?

[B]

Yeah, you know, I'd been there eight years and, you know, growth from 4 to 24 doesn't sound like a lot, but remember, we had Covid for two years, so I would say, hey, I got a jail free card. So it was really like six years. Yeah, there was, what, 20 stores in six years? So. But it was, you know, it was just time for me. I mean, you know, and I live by this mantra, continue to tell your stories because you get tired of telling, but people never get tired of hearing them. Yeah, but I think there are. There's a point in time when people get tired of hearing your stories as a leader. And it's time for a fresh vision and new growth and time for me to grow.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm not done growing. Right.

[A]

We're never done growing.

[B]

We're never done growing. And when I looked across the enterprise, all due respect, I'd been in, you know, brands that have really set the dynamic inside Starbucks, invented coffee outside the office. Right. Ahmad first fast casual pizza. Right. No one's ever done it before. Voodoo donut. Right. No one had ever done donuts that way before. Never will. Right. It's kind of unique. So it's like, what's the next brand for me?

[A]

Right.

[B]

All due respect to many of the brands, I just couldn't see myself doing it right. Because I could do it anywhere. But the brand was important, and being a part of a cool culture brand was important for me, and innovators in the space was important for me as anything else. And I got the call from Velvet, and they said, would you be interested in Velvet? And I was telling the story earlier to a customer, and I went back to my wife, Heidi, and I'll. Heidi's her name because I never say my wife. Always say Heidi. Went back to. Heidi said, hey, Velvet called and they're interested in us coming over. And she's from Houston originally, and she said, where is it at? I Said in Dallas, we're living in Portland. And she's like, yeah, we can go do that. And I was like, oh, that's better than the other one she tell me about. She's like, no, I don't want to move to Salt Lake. I don't want to move to Arizona. And so we started the conversation, and as I kind of unpacked the brand, I started to realize, gosh, you know, I've been. I've been a customer before. And I knew the food was really good, but they started to pack the brand. I was like, hey, this is. There's something here, right? It's growing. There's some dynamic to it. They do really, really, really great food. And they gotten to a point I'm. Clay done a phenomenal job of getting the. Where he got them to. And it was. It was just time for that next change, right? Because again, Clay had been everybody eight years, and I don't know the shelf life of a CEO, but I'm guessing 8, 9, 10 years is kind of in a brand and a growing brand where it's time for a new set of eyes, a new dynamic, a new focus.

[A]

Well, it's, I think, within the world of CEOs, you can fractionalize and segregate specialists, right? Like a CEO for a season, right? You know, like, this is. Like, this is the season we're in of our evolution as a brand, and we're looking for CEOs that specialize in this season because, you know, like, opening a restaurant isn't the same from going from one restaurant to three restaurants. And it isn't the same from going from four restaurants to 10 restaurants, which isn't the same from going from 10 restaurants to 30 restaurants. So. And then within that ecosystem of beyond, it's like, well, going from 25 to 100 isn't the same as going from, you know, 10 to 25. So you need those specialists, right? So if you were a specialist, where would you say you are the specialist? Like, what. In what sweet spot?

[B]

I would say from. From one. Sorry, literally specialist. I would say from about. We're at today 50 to 500, 400, somewhere inside of the air. Understanding, uniqueness of. I learned process from Starbucks, right? The king of process. I learned the importance of process, right. At Mod, I learned how to kind of build the plane while we flew it. Right? We're opening a lot of restaurants and kind of changing dynamic. And at Vudu, I learned kind of the. The non brand brand, right? How do you become a culture without a culture? Like kind of just be yourself and do your own thing and have your really live in this Instagram world.

[A]

Right. Well, that was kind of my next question relative to Vudu was, was it never meant to be scaled? Was that a brand that. Do they still want to scale? Is that still the goal?

[B]

There's still. There's still to be going, growing, and they're still scaling, but again, they're not meant to be in every street corner. Right, right. There's one store in Chicago, there's one store here in Dallas. There's one store in Arizona. Right. It's one store in San Antonio. They're really meant to be kind of these one off brands where people seek you out and go to you. Right. And it's donuts and, you know, you don't eat donuts every day. So that's how that brand was really built to be. It wasn't built to be on every street corner. And I learned that from that brand. I learned how to, how to grow one brand and understand how to be the icon.

[A]

What is this meant to be? Is it meant to be 500? Is it meant to be 30?

[B]

Oh, I think this meant to be 500. Yes. I think again, yeah. Because I think the reality is it's not a taco restaurant. Right. And as soon as we get away from. We have taco in our name, but it's kind of a misnomer. Right. We sell. We sell great food in a taco shell.

[A]

No, I was talking about Voodoo. Is it meant to be 500?

[B]

No, no, that's.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. Some brands, I think Voodoo.

[B]

Voodoo is. Is probably 30, maybe 50.

[A]

Right.

[B]

At its highest end. Right. You know, they do well in Universe, Studio City Walks. They do well. And they're gonna go in New York City, they just announced Union Square in New York City. Again, iconic neighborhoods, one brand, one corner. You search it out, you go stand in line for two hours and you say, I've done it.

[A]

Yeah. So they're good in tourist spots, great

[B]

tourist sports, but great in the nightlife areas. Open late, open 24 hours. Again, iconic donuts, Right. That are just fun and fancy and you can find them anywhere else.

[A]

So is it safe to say that when you're with Vudu, you weren't really leveraging your uniqueness or your niche as a CEO because they weren't looking to scale to those numbers?

[B]

I think so. You know, one of the other things I did was, you know, maximize P and L. Right. Because I'm really good at operations.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. I'm a blocking tackler. Right. So we called managing in the middle of P and L. Like I can squeeze a nickel out of, you know, got it easy enough. But so that's really where I was focused. Right. As we're growing, how we get high EVs and make sure we're maximizing the spend, getting the bottom line dollar out of it. So it's combination. Yeah. I didn't spend nearly enough time on growth. Right. Understanding how we grow the brand, how do we attract new people? I spent a lot of time in marketing there. I mean, Vudu has 280,000 followers on Instagram. Wow.

[A]

With 24 people love those donuts on Instagram.

[B]

They love them. Yeah.

[A]

Food. Pizza and donuts.

[B]

They love them. Food.

[A]

You're the worst donut shop. But you'll have a hundred thousand followers. Totally.

[B]

Right. It's just odd. And so really focusing that. And really, how do you keep the brand authentic right now? How do you be this kind of cult following brand? That and I speak a lot about, I mean I've come from cult brands in the past, right?

[A]

Well, yeah. And I think that's, I think the, the term or the, the idea of growth, when we think of growth, it's like size.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But growth isn't necessarily getting bigger, it's getting better. And better is relative.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And I think we could be better as an industry. Getting better without getting bigger. Can we get better and get bigger at the same time?

[B]

Yeah, I don't, you know, I don't. I mean I, I think there's a. Less dialogue and maybe it's just me, but I'm seeing less dialogue about grand brands, brands, growth numbers than I've seen in the past. The last couple years. Right. The last couple years. And I've read things in NRN or different places. They're like they're going to grow 500 restaurants in 10 years. I'm like, best of luck to you. Right.

[A]

Why is that the goal?

[B]

I know, that's what I. But it was. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It really was there. And having been in brands that have grown like that. Right. MOD was fastest growing restaurant company for three years straight in the country. It comes with pain.

[A]

What kind of pain?

[B]

Well, it comes with capital pain. It comes with mistakes or even, even more glaring than in the past. Infrastructure pains. Right. Everyone running as fast as they can.

[A]

Building a plane while you're flying your blue ocean effect.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, you were the first to market with fast casual pizza. You figured it out and then people said, oh well, you Know, the pizza model is a good model, and this is an open segment of the market. Like, we gotta. You gotta go to every market before someone else.

[B]

You gotta be first mover. Yeah, right. And then Blaze and those guys came around behind it. Yeah. But, you know, I think now, strategic, thoughtful growth for the sake, if you can't grow just to grow, you know, now, especially here, we're spending time thinking about good strategic growth. What market should we go to?

[A]

Great segue.

[B]

Where does it make sense?

[A]

So, yeah, let's get into that. When you think of the future, now that you're here, you've been. How long have you been with Velvet now?

[B]

Not that I'm counting. 76 days.

[A]

76 days. So just about a quarter. Yeah, you know, almost a quarter. When you first came on, what were those conversations like? The first conversations of, like, what's the vision? What are you trying to do? Like, what is. Are they trying to grow? And what is growth if that is the case?

[B]

Yeah, they are. They are trying to grow. I mean, mean, there's no, there's no hiding. I mean, our equity partners are Leonard Green out of La Alcatorton and Front Burner. And that's, that's widely public. Right. So I'm not telling you, I'm not out of turn.

[A]

Well, yeah, it is. I mean, I saw that. And I think the, the, the concept was started by Front Burner, correct?

[B]

It was, yeah.

[A]

They brought on. They brought in equity, they brought in El Catterton, and then they went to get more equity. And now Front Burner is a minority, correct?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So there's actually. We have three equity partners, all with different levels of participation. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They want to grow, of course. Yeah, of course. Right. I mean, and I'm not saying any outturn equity guys like to grow. Right? That's what equity is about, is growth. And. But it's good growth. Enterprise growth. Enterprise value growth. And not just growing for the sake of growing.

[A]

What is good growth? What is that? What is enterprise value growth? What. What does that look like?

[B]

I think it's. It's. It has to be added to, to the, to the actual company as a whole and not just have to have another storefront, another number on the list,

[A]

added it to the company as a whole.

[B]

What does that mean, in other words, financially? In other words, we have to open successful stores.

[A]

So not just growing to get out there fast, but to correct. To add. With every new unit to add value.

[B]

Correct. And not just, not just adding it to, to have another store count number in Front of you. Right. It's being thoughtful around the growth. The markets we go into, again, ensuring that we're learning some from each. Right. And that they're financially successful when they open?

[A]

So thoughtful growth, what markets we go to, what else does it mean to be a thoughtful grower? What markets?

[B]

You know. Yeah, what markets? What.

[A]

Who.

[B]

The competitors that are in the market, even down to the location. Right. What does the brand look from a DNA, Right. Are we in a power center with a Target and Heb? Right. We have to figure that as a brand as well, because we're not quite big enough yet. You know, we have some data points.

[A]

So, like, what are the consumer habits of our target market? What stores are they going to and how close can we get to those stores?

[B]

And does that make sense? In other words, if I'm in a Target center, does that make sense for the brand? Is that a. Is that where our customers are? Or should I be next to Kava, or should I be out, you know, on the street somewhere as a freestanding location?

[A]

What do you think of thoughtful growth as it pertains to the human equity of your. The human capital? What does that.

[B]

All of it look like? It's all of it, you know, and it's changing over time, right? Because obviously the workplace has changed, right? You know, minimum wages, everyone's making about the same nowadays. Whereas before you could be, you know, front movers in that and really highly competitive in that space, and you really can't anymore. We're all kind of challenged in that pace. But, you know, we don't spend as much time thinking about, you know, the human capital, if you will. When we open new locations, we talk about supply chain a lot now. We support them. Right. Every time you open a new market, you have to have supply chain. And that's getting more complex and more complicated. We spend some time learning from social media where customers are asking us to come, whereas before we never really got that information. Now we're getting it on a daily basis. Hey, come to this market again, there's more data out than you can. You can ever imagine. And trying to take the demographics and say, what. What looks the same, right? A successful store intact in Dallas. Where else in the country does that same person live? And so doing a lot of that work as well, before we identify new markets we want to move in, are

[A]

you using any tools to find.

[B]

To do that work? Use PACER AI quite a bit.

[A]

And what is PACER AI?

[B]

It's a, you know, it's a tool that tells you Basically the number of cars that go by foot traffic, demographic of people that live in your area, all of the information, all of the equal information around the store, location you're going to have.

[A]

Okay. And do you like, what specific data are you looking for with like, I

[B]

can't take all that.

[A]

Okay, I'm going to push, you know

[B]

you want to try? You should.

[A]

So Pacer AI is a tool. Any other tools you're using soon?

[B]

Yeah, I don't know it off top of my head. You're still 75 days. I know. We have two others.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So one thing that stood out to me when I had Clay on the show going back five years ago that I thought was really cool, he was explaining that he. They really get the managers involved with. I can't remember. I mean I was. I think I made a note somewhere.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

So Vela Taco in 2021 was trying to expand a more suburban areas and there was also the process of making operators focus restaurant group. So making operators focused restaurant group, letting the operators buy in and create the core values. I think that was something that kind of resonated me and something that I've heard from you of this idea of like letting your frontline people kind of tell you what needs to be done.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It seems like when they were at 26 locations and scaling, they were trying to get more of that executive leadership influence from the store level managers. Is that something that has continued today?

[B]

It has. And I have a group called the vtac, the Velvet Taco Advisory Council. I didn't name it. Marketing. Marketing. Of course. Once a month I get a manager from each of our dos, so eight of them. And they spend an hour with me on a call and it's the third Thursday every month and it's literally just me and them and they can say anything, anything at all. It took a while to get them to unleash, but it's an advisory council and every six months they change. So we have another store manager coming in to replace them. And again, it's just trying to be a sounding board for what's happening. It's not about a bitch session. It's really about trying to listen, right. Trying to hear what we're doing and why we're doing certain things. The restaurant business is complex already by itself. It's a complex business. Right? You have people, you have product, you have recipes, you got environment, you got customers, you got all those social things that are happening. The macro, the micro, all of that. It's a microcosm of life in a restaurant. And so for me, anywhere I can reduce complexity on that store manager is important. So we do the same thing here. We just have this again, marketing tagged it. It's just basically a SEO listening group where I get the store managers together. Same thing in the office. I take once a month. I get. I choose different people. I don't choose them, but my team does. An accounting person, a marketing person, a facilities person. They have lunch with me for an hour and we just talk about life and talk about their world and what's happening in the world and what decisions are impacting them. And, you know, and sometimes I bring up topics like let's talk about benefits and what's most important to you. And sometimes we talk about PTO and what's most important to you. Right. Because. Because that's their center of the universe. Yeah. But, you know, we all spend more time at work than we do at home most times. Right. The second place we spend the most time is at work. And so you have to make sure the work environment is successful for all of them, including the. In. The managers are the most important part. Because I think sometimes, and you've hit on it a couple times, the bigger you grow, the easier it is to become disconnected from the restaurants. And then it becomes us and them. And boy, when that starts to happen,

[A]

do you know when that.

[B]

It's hard to get back? It's hard to get. I don't. I do remember. I'll tell you a quick story, though. I do remember when Howard Br came back as a president of Starbucks North America, they brought him back. And you'll need to look up the year they brought him back because they had kind of lost their way. And they brought him back. He was retired and came back and he held a meeting in the Seattle support center. Everybody. And he stood up and said, tomorrow. All the restaurants could close tomorrow and no one would know this building for three days. That's how disconnected we are.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

He goes, that's gotta stop. And that always resonated in my head. Always. So, you know, my mantra is, the restaurants are the center of our universe, the center eaters, meaning that everything starts and stops with our restaurants. And if you get a phone call from a restaurant person from one of our managers and say, I need help with something, whether it's your discipline or not, you got them. You took the phone call. You go figure it out for him. Yeah.

[A]

So have you ever heard of Dunbar's number?

[B]

No.

[A]

I always say it. I always bring it up on the show because it's a number I'm fascinated with. So Dunbar's number is. Let me see if I can read a desk. Let's see here. Dunbar's number is a proposed cognitive limit of approximately 150 individuals with whom a human can maintain stable, meaningful social relationships. Those involving one to one trust and familiarity proposed by British anthropologist Robin Dunbar in 1990. And so basically he was studying monkeys, right? In the wild, chimpanzees specifically. And he noticed that when groups of chimpanzees reached about 50, then there was a divide the, that chimpies, chimpanzees could not exist coexist in groups greater than 50 because the hierarchy started to get right. They don't know who the lead chimp is.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So when you start getting to like 60 or 70 chimps, then there's like a divided, like I don't know if very social creatures, right? So like who am I gonna, who's my leader? So there's a divide in loyalty splits at about 50 chimpanzees. And this is true with, with all primates, including ourselves. And our number is 150. So in the groups of 150 we start to. That is when, according to Robin Dunbar, that It goes us versus them, huh? At 150 relationships. It becomes us versus them because we can't cognitively, cognitively handle more than 150 relationships. So I, I ask myself how do we, if we know that about our human being, our, our nature, how do we use 150 as a pocket? So when we get to 150, we intentionally fragment just to like be able to control relationships?

[B]

That's just because, because, you know, it's interesting because I wonder if that will change over time with, with social media and the Internet and the, our ability to talk to each other.

[A]

Well, does social media improve our ability to talk to each other?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Or does it degrade our to talk to.

[B]

I know, right? Because we all speak in, in, in, you know, 60 characters, right? Right. I mean if I, if I contact the store manager today, restaurant manager, they're gonna yell at me. We use restaurants. At Velvet, we use stores of voodoo. We use, you know, so I'm learning the, the, the vernacular. But if we send an email to a restaurant manager now, I send them a text to tell them to read the email or I call them to tell them to read the text, right? So I wonder as, as a, as a, as we grow as a society whether that this mechanism on a phone, right Changes increases that or decreases that. Right. Because you're now speaking in blurbs. And does that connection start to soften because you're only speaking in 60 characters?

[A]

Well, you're also not speaking with all the other means of communication.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Like body language.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Energy.

[B]

Correct. You know, so it's easier to text somebody, to call somebody. Right, right. How many times nowadays people say, just text me. I know I want to call you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, just text me. And I call people. Like, why'd you call me? You could have sent me a text. And I'm like, right. So using what you just referenced, I wonder how that changes over time.

[A]

Right. Well, I'm hoping to get the authors of the. The Social Brain, which was written with Robin Dunbar and two other. Can't remember their. Their titles. He's a. Like a scientist, anthropologist. But they're business people, and they look at Rob Dunbar's number in business, and it's not just 150. It's like a series of numbers. 150 is where they think we go

[B]

from us to them.

[A]

Yeah, but the. The numbers are 5, 1550, 150, 500, you know, 1,500. And. And if you look at those numbers, like in a kitchen, five is usually the amount of people that are online, because that is like that number for some reason. And then the next number is 15, and it's usually three times. That grows in like. Like whatever. For some reason. It's like 5 times 3, 15. 15 times 3 is 45. Round up to 50 is how they get that 5 times. Or, sorry, 3 times 50 is 150, which is that special number. And then the next one is 450, but then they round up to 500 and each one. So the. The idea is, like, when you're in between those numbers, like, what's the goal? It's to get to the next number as fast as possible.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because there's something about how we work in social groups that those numbers seem to. It's fascinating. I want to go deeper into it.

[B]

It's. Now you've got me.

[A]

Well, now you're at 50. The thing that triggered it originally was you said that we're at 1500 employees.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that's one of the numbers, and that's the amount of people you can recognize.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Oh, so, like, there's different. I think that there's something there in Denver.

[B]

Something there. Yeah.

[A]

That we can study to figure out. When do we know when to scale?

[B]

Yeah. And it would be interesting because you said the study was in 1990 again, we talked about before, about. But, you know, today's. In today's world, our employees. Right. 21 to 30. Yeah, right. It's just a different world for them. And again, it's one of the things I had to learn.

[A]

But I think what's interesting, relative to Dunbar's number, is that you're at a hundred and fifteen people right now. So the next point for you, plateau for you is 5000.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because it's three times 1500.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So the goal is to get from 1500 to 5000 as fast you can. Because in between, there's social, there's, like. There's, like. In that growth period, period is where

[B]

things go bad, disconnects start to happen.

[A]

And I'm really fascinated. In December, I want to learn more about it. Yeah, I've read the book once. I think I gotta read it again because I feel like I could explain it better, but it's called the Social.

[B]

No, it's really interesting. I need to. I need to go take some time and dig into that.

[A]

So in terms of. You've only been. Again, three months.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

With Velvet.

[B]

I know. Thanks for having me.

[A]

Oh, man. Thanks for coming. I love talking to you. I guess kind of paint the picture. Like, what is Velvet tacos today? 1001500 employees.

[B]

Right.

[A]

56 locations.

[B]

Right.

[A]

4 of those are licensed.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You have one franchise and then I guess 20 or 52.

[B]

We're open a new one next week.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In Raleigh, North Carolina.

[A]

That's something I'm interested in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How are you guys choosing markets? Like, what markets really have you excited right now?

[B]

Yeah. Well, if you ask the group before me or the group now. Right. I've been here 70 days. I think I have a little different view of it. You know, a little bit of tip in my hand to people. Right. But listen, the same markets have been great forever. Or not great recently. Listen, Texas has been great for everybody forever. Houston, Dallas. Right. People came here. Right. Like urban pioneers. Here we come. With our restaurant chain. Let's drop. You know, Denver's always been a great market. Salt Lake City is a growing market. Right. Savory's up there. They're doing a great job. Andrew and the team, that's where Clay's at now. They kind of control Salt Lake, but there's no, you know, we'll see. So I think Salt Lake's a really good market. I think some of the Midwest markets are pretty good markets right now that are growing. People are moving to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, unfortunately, I think The west coast is making it challenging, right, to go operate in. Yeah, just operate. Challenging operating environments.

[A]

I think it's pretty well known why, but can you specify why it's a challenge.

[B]

Pretty well known why. Right. I mean, listen, I operated in California with the, with Voodoo and Mod and Starbucks. Seattle, obviously, and Portland. Right. We had Voodoo, had stores in all three. Challenging, very challenging. You know, again, challenging. Workforce is challenging. Rents are challenging. Dynamics. It's a challenging. They were challenging markets to operate in. And why operate those markets when you go somewhere else? Right, right. Why choose those markets?

[A]

So, like, they're very saturated markets too.

[B]

Yeah. Listen, California is a phenomenal from an economy perspective. Right. I think at one point in time in my career, like 50% of the profits of Starbucks came from California.

[A]

How much of the state or the country's GPT or GDP is in California?

[B]

I don't know. It's. I know it's huge.

[A]

You got Google. Yeah. I mean, I think Facebook is there too. I think Microsoft is Washington.

[B]

Well, Microsoft's Washington, yeah. Amazon's Silicon Valley. Yes. Right, Yeah. A huge part of our.

[A]

Yeah, Amazon's Washington too, right?

[B]

Amazon's Washington, yeah. Seattle, yeah. But it's, you know, it's just challenging operating. So, you know, we're looking, I think, in markets that, that, that makes sense for us, that we can grow into that. That again, we're not in the Mexican restaurant space. Right. We're in the taco kind of international flavors done differently. And that's the, you know, that's a challenge we're facing in the UK as well as teaching the UK consumer we're not a taco as you know it. Yeah. Right.

[A]

So generally speaking, are you saying that the, the opportunity in the markets right now aren't in on the coastal states, but in the center of the state, the growth momentum, markets?

[B]

I would say so, yeah. I would. You've tipped my hand enough. I would say so, yeah.

[A]

And I think, I think that there's a. There's this book I just started to listen to called Generations. I heard it was Tony Robbins was talking. Talking about this book in an interview that he recently did with Stephen from the Diary of the CEO.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And it's this book that. It's like Tony Robbins was talking about how we have to start getting better at recognizing patterns. There's generational patterns. And in that book, Generations, early in the book, they say that they make this prediction and this book was written in the 90s that in the beginning in 2020 through mid-2020s. So like, now that there's gonna be a massive shift in cultural, like. Like a revolution that's going to happen this decade. And I think it's pretty safe to say that there is kind of a. Like, with AI.

[B]

Yeah, it's coming.

[A]

There's something going on right now. And I guess where I'm going with this is there seems to be. There was the shift at the beginning of the 20th century, early 1900s, of out of the country into the city, right. And everybody fled the countries, fled the small markets, and they all went to the. The city because that's where the opportunity was. I feel like the pendulum is swinging the other way. I think people are vacating the cities, going to the country, because we're no longer dependent on cities for opportunity. There's actually more opportunity in the country. Right. And I think this is a really good thing. What are your thoughts?

[B]

You know, I think it's a really good thing. Listen, I. I think as. As, you know, having lived in some major cities in my career. Right. You know, if I had my drs, it, It'd be kind of not to do that. But I do think. I think some of the smaller cities that are out there, some of the Midwest, you know, the Kansas cities of the world. Right. Are growing, and people are bringing families. They're cheaper. The growth raises all of that cost of living. Cost of living. Brands, Right. A lot of times you would go to the big cities because the brands are there, right. You want to be around the brands. You know, Nashville's blowing up. Who would have thought of Nashville ten years ago? Right? Right. Nashville. You're like, nashville, right? Really?

[A]

Well, I think now it's. It's not just Nashville, but like, Dayton, Ohio.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Tulsa, Oklahoma, like, you know, like middle of nowhere. Like, I literally drove when I was driving from San Antonio. Sorry, from Houston to San Antonio. I use this app called Harvest Host, which lets me basically find places to park my camper, where there's usually a farm or a winery or. Or brewery. It is really cool. And it. It forces you off the freeway. So you wouldn't. I would have never known there was a town called Flatonia, Texas.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That had an old, dusty downtown that was probably booming in, like, the early 1900s. And then everyone left for Houston and, you know, the big cities, but you got this. These bones here, this. This old, dusty town with bones. And then there's new energy going into the town. Like a young entrepreneur, a Taylor I had on the show from Darlin's Diner, and like, she, like, just. They, like, this, there's this new wave of life and inspiration going into these old bones where there's. Where people are getting out of the city and they're going to these markets, but they want the convenience of what they have. So there's so much opportunity in these small markets.

[B]

Very cool.

[A]

I think it's so cool.

[B]

It's very cool. Yeah, it's very, very cool. And I listen, I love entrepreneurs. Yeah, right. I mean, you know, I don't have the guts of being entrepreneur. I mean, Heidi, constantly, at some point time, my career was like, we need to start our own thing. And I'd be like, why? Right. I run other people's things really well. Right. To start my. I just don't have the guts.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I love reading stories. I love listening to your podcast and hearing those entrepreneurs because, Mike, the passion in their voice and their, their I never say die attitudes is amazing. Is amazing. Right. And the country's built on that. Yeah, the country is built on that. And we need more of that in the restaurant on space.

[A]

So one thing I kind of want to understand, I'm hoping you can help me with this is in terms of when you're looking for space, are you looking at new development? Are you looking to go into old markets? I think Clay. Clay Dover.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Mentioned that you guys were looking at the suburban areas back in 2021, 2022. That was what was interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that still the case?

[B]

I think it's a combination of both. I think we, we've done well in some suburban locations, but I, I don't think in today's world you can limit yourself and say, listen, we're just a suburban brand. We're not an urban brand. And what defines urban and suburban now?

[A]

Well, I was curious about that. Like, we're in Dallas. Like, Dallas is like a sprawling urban or, sorry, suburban.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Say, like, it's like.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Like oceans of homes.

[B]

Homes.

[A]

You fly over Dallas. It's just oceans of homes.

[B]

Right. And so, you know, I think I'm hard pressed, at least as I've learned through my career. It's hard to define. What does suburban and urban mean? Right. So I see a soccer mom or dad. Does that mean it's suburban? Right. Mod. We went into what was called daily need centers. So it was the center that everyone went on the way home. Grocery store, hardware store. Right. Is Velvet meant for those centers? I don't know. I don't think so.

[A]

Well, yeah, I have thoughts on this.

[B]

Yeah. I just, you know. You know. Or do you go in these power Centers.

[A]

What power center?

[B]

Power center means like where you drive in, there's a grocery store, there's maybe what used to be a movie theater, but whatever it is now, Cinemark. And there's, you know, there's four or five clothing stores, there's a nail salon. They're all a big, major strip mall, massive parking lot, and you can choose to go to four different restaurants any given time. Not usually chef driven, not usually unique restaurants, kind of more the chain restaurants, if you will. And that's how I define a power center. Right. They've taken over 10 square miles and they just put up this massive parking lot. Massive buildings, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To me, that's a power center.

[A]

And usually the stores that go into those stores, there's usually pre existing relationships with the developers and the operators. Pretty much they're kind of buddy, buddy like this.

[B]

They're like, they're. You could call them outdoor malls for lack of a better term.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah. So. But are we meant to be that with all the competitors around us and you know, we're all chasing the same $20? 20, you know, you used to be $10, then I went to $15. We're all chasing the same 18 to $20 meal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. And people like, I'm hungry, I have $18, I have $20. Where do I go? Right. We're all chasing that same dollar figure. And so, you know, many times you go in those centers and one person will go to Chipotle, one person will go to Cava, one person would go to, you name it, they go there. I'm not sure the brand's meant for all those power centers. I'm still trying to figure it out. Right. I know some of our most successful stores aren't in those power centers. You know, we're sitting in a restaurant today that's a freestanding building. Right. There's nothing around it but office buildings. Yeah. Now you look right down the street, there's In N Out Burger. Freestanding. Yeah. Right. You never find it in and out in a power center free saying on its own. Right. Which is, by the way, I love Dallas as in and out burger. Just a little commercial for and out. My favorite, one of my favorite brands growing up in Southern California. But you know, they're right here. And so I think it's a combination of both. Right. Be where the customers want you to be. Right, Right. Let. Let your consumers dictate where they want you to go.

[A]

Are you. So you're. I think I have written down somewhere the markets are currently in You.

[B]

We're in a ton of markets.

[A]

Yeah. I wish my memory served me better.

[B]

Tulsa, Norman, Atlanta, Charlotte.

[A]

I know. I wrote it down.

[B]

Fort Lauderdale.

[A]

So in these markets, like, do you get. You're talking about cities right now?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are you, like. So I. I was a commercial buy, and for some reason, my mind works. When I'm talking about cities, I'm talking about airports.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So an airport at, like, a New York or a Dallas or Houston or Los Angeles. That's a class A airport. That's a very busy airport. And then there's class B airports, which are usually a little smaller airports, but they're still, like, international or commercial. Like out here. Probably San. I don't know. Austin might be a classic class. Okay, Class B. What's that?

[B]

Oklahoma City.

[A]

I don't know. Oklahoma City.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Dayton is probably class B or whatever. Like, smaller airports.

[B]

Indianapolis.

[A]

And then there's class. Sorry, Class A's, Class A airspace. Sorry, B. Is this the one? That's New York, Los Angeles.

[B]

It's been a while since I've flown

[A]

and see, are those smaller? So I think that the opportunities are, like, in the class C, like, markets where there's just, like, these old towns that got vacated now, everyone going back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The Midwest. I mean, are you guys looking to get into, like, the city center? Are you more interested on, like, the edge of the city center?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The edge of both.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. I think the reality is, again, we've done. We've done well in both locations. I think we need. We're spending more time really understanding our customer, understanding our guests, as they call them here, understanding our guests and understanding where that dynamic seems to make place, whereas that crossover makes place. Right. And the cross cohabitate for us. It's like, again, as you know, and you've been in this business now, you've talked to people in this business for a long time. You know, Fast Casual elevated. Fast casual. What are we calling ourselves? Right. Because Fast Casual.

[A]

Why do we have to put labels on everything?

[B]

Well, that's true. I love that. I love that about you, because you're absolutely right. Right.

[A]

There's no rules.

[B]

No. But everyone, you know, everyone quantifies. Are you Quick serve? Are you Fast Casual? Are you, you know, fast food? Like, who are you? Right, but we have to. We have to. That's what the consumer looks at us. So we have to understand what that looks like and who's had success, you know, and who is winning the war, who is doing well and kind of, you know, track off of that I mean, there's a lot of my, a lot of folks that work with me at Starbucks over time that are now CEOs of restaurant companies. And we all compare notes. Of course we do. Like, how are you doing in that market? What do you think of that market? But then we're all racing for the same 2500 square foot box.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. On Main and Main. So we've had some success. You know, we've had some struggles in certain markets. You know, we were in a couple of college towns. We're in Lubbock, we're in Waco. I'm not sure we go back to college towns for a while. Right. As we're kind of figuring ourselves out. Does that make sense?

[A]

Well, also your, your market is your college target market. That person who is loyal to your brand is no longer in a college.

[B]

Every 20, every 25% every year.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Flush through. Right, right. And having done this now again at Voodoo and Ahmad, it's hard, it's hard to reinvent yourself. Right. Especially for us. Chef driven unique tacos, things you're not going to see on a traditional menu. You're having to educate 25% of the popular of the population every year.

[A]

So your job as a CEO today with Velvet Taco, what is your core focus?

[B]

Reducing complexity. About the experience in the restaurants. Right. And then growth. Right. But for me right now it's, it's about ensuring that we're providing a great experience every day.

[A]

How do you plan on not making the same mistakes you did with cutting things that might be core to the identity of that brand? That might also be done.

[B]

Dead weight. Yeah. Just we talked about. Right. Listening. Yeah, Listening and not talking to myself. Right. Listening and not talking to myself.

[A]

There's the first impression you can get when you run the numbers and you see the data, the P mix and all this like, let's get rid of the dogs. But what does that dog communicate?

[B]

Correct. Correct. And so again, that lesson learned around the vegan donuts I shared way back, way back earlier. It's a lesson learned. Right. So reducing complexity doesn't mean taking, taking things off the menu. It's just making sure we're being thoughtful of what we're doing, how we're preparing the food, making sure we're, we're doing it thoughtfully. Right. Where's our supply chain come from? What are you asking from our prep cooks? What are we asking from our. We call them heart of the house team. What are we asking them to? Reducing complexity. Right. Yeah. It doesn't have to Be so difficult all the time. And again, I think we're chasing things for a while. Like a lot of brands were. Right. You go to a brand today, and all due respect to Cheesecake Fact Factory, everyone started looking Cheesecake Factory. Right. You could eat anything in a restaurant. Yeah. And think about those brands that have been had some real success. Right. In today's world, the chicken guys are killing it. And what do they sell?

[A]

Chicken.

[B]

Chicken.

[A]

Yeah, chicken.

[B]

Chicken.

[A]

Chicken between bread.

[B]

Chicken.

[A]

But it's chicken. Yeah. At the end of the day.

[B]

Right. But they do it really well. It's so simple and they're very focused on it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And they deliver on the expectations and they're repeatable and they're sustainable and. And so all of those things that you have to ensure that you're doing that. Right. You have to ensure. And then again, we all, we all are driving to find new customers all day long. I want to make sure we don't give a reason not to come back once you come in. Yeah, we talk a lot about that.

[A]

So with a chef driven concept, a lot of what separated you in the market was these creative tacos.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

From a wide variety of cultures.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

So how do you streamline that or how do you simply simplify the. The process of creating that consistently without losing it?

[B]

Yeah. Well, so we don't touch. That's a wtf. Our weekly taco feature.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Right. We do it. We, you know, we say to people, oh, you're running lto. That's pretty cute. We do a weekly taco feature every week. We roll a brand new taco in which when I got it, I was like, you do? We do what? But it's core to the brand. Like, we're never changing that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's never going away.

[A]

Now is that talk of the same. That same wtf, the same taco across all locations.

[B]

All locations.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And yeah, it's complex.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But. But that's a part of the brand.

[A]

And how often does that WTF change?

[B]

Is it every Wednesday?

[A]

Every week?

[B]

Every Wednesday.

[A]

So you have to execute that across 56 locations every week?

[B]

Every Wednesday.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Every single Wednesday. And. And they're not easy, right? I mean, today they are. This week it is, because it. Because of the super bowl and lemon chicken. It worked. Right. But you know, we run it. We ran a gyro last week. Right. We ran before that. Tuna pokey. Right. So there's some really. Chef's really cool with it.

[A]

So why is it so important to keep that on? Why don't you want to lose that.

[B]

Oh, it's core to the brand. It's core to being authentic. It's core to about the fact of the international flavors. Bringing international. Bringing something you may never try. Right. But it's a taco. It's for one week.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Get after it.

[A]

Who decides what that. That taco is going to be?

[B]

Well, Chef brings them all. I'll tell you that the tastings here are way better than dinner. Voodoo donut.

[A]

You won't get diabetes.

[B]

And it's funny because Heidi tells me you're finally working the brand. I wasn't a big coffee drinker. I wasn't a big pizza eater. I didn't eat. I wasn't a big donut eater. But I love tacos. So now I finally found a brand I love. So we do. We do taco tastings where Chef will bring them all. We'll go through them all. It's a leadership team. But we always bring a store manager with us. So a general manager comes and joins the tasting. Because we need somebody in that room that's taste. The tacos and shots are made, and then we select a core group that's kind of runs for the next quarter. Yeah, but it's core. We'll never change that. That's just part of the brand. And again, you got to try them. Yeah, they're just incredible.

[A]

I will.

[B]

I blame. Yeah, I can't wait.

[A]

So your core focus is really staying true to the brand. Thinking about the why and how do we scale this thing with. With maintaining as much as that lightning in a bottle as possible. Do you get into, like, you're going from 26 to 50 locations? I think, what is the goal? Like, like, what is your five year plan?

[B]

You know, I. Someone. Someone asked me. I've been here 75 days. I could tell you 500. I could tell you 100. I could tell you 50.

[A]

But even if you go to 100, you're doubling in size.

[B]

Listen, all of them are. Right. Yeah, Right. I'm not sure that I could sit today and tell you that. Yeah. I mean, even the president gets 100 days. Right? Right before they set their plan. I mean, I've been here 75 days. I get it. You know, I mean, so we're going to grow. We're going to grow strategically, thoughtfully. I know we're going to open seven this year. We're going to open the DFW airport this year as well. I know we have three more airports on online for next year. We haven't announced them all. One's Orlando. The other two are major. One of the airports you mentioned, so, you know, major airports. We've got a pipeline we'll probably open between 5 and 10 next year. Given kind of the brand, it's a

[A]

good steady pace for.

[B]

It feels right. Yeah, it feels right. It feels right.

[A]

Slow and steady.

[B]

It feels right.

[A]

And I do love that the majority of your Velvet tacos are in Texas. The Dallas Fort Worth area. Correct.

[B]

Home.

[A]

How many locations are in Texas?

[B]

It's home. I think we have 19.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Here locally.

[A]

So more than 50 of your locations are in Texas.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's home. Yeah, it's totally home. And we're, we're proud Texas born brand.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But there's something kind of cool about being a proud Texas born brand that sells tacos, that does different tacos. Right. You're not going to find a quesadilla burrito or any of that. Right. You're going to find some really cool. A chicken tikka taco, our number one seller right out of Texas.

[A]

Who thought, what is a chicken tikka taco?

[B]

It's, it's chicken with tikka sauce. Like tzatziki tikka sauce. So a spicy orange flavor. Okay.

[A]

What nationality is it?

[B]

It's Indian, dude.

[A]

Is it?

[B]

Okay, you gotta try one today.

[A]

I will for sure.

[B]

Eat your gig.

[A]

I will. It sounds good. I love Indian. Apparently not enough that I don't know what that is, but. Okay. I mean, what haven't we discussed today, Chris? Like, what were you hoping would come out of today's conversation? What is near and dear to your heart? What do you want the, the restaurant industry to hear?

[B]

Yeah, don't, don't sleep on us. Don't sleep on velvet. Right. And if you haven't come, come give it a shot. If you've come. Thank you. Right. But I mean, I think there's a lot of noise out there for brands right now. A lot of movement, a lot of changing, a lot of changing places, A lot of change out in CEOs. Like, I've never seen so much, so many brands change CEOs in the last.

[A]

Why do you think that is?

[B]

18, 20 months. This is a hard job, you know, and restaurants are hard business. As you know, the restaurants are very hard business to be in. And the changing, changing employee base and all the change that's happened in and around our world, I think for some it was like, okay, I'm gonna tap out. I've had enough. Right. But I, but I think for me it drives me, Right. Because there's a Whole nother world coming right Instagram and making sure your food is Instagram. Who'd have thought of that, right, 10 years ago?

[A]

Well, now with AI on the. The now saying Instagram is going to be dead. Social media is dead, is what they're saying.

[B]

Yeah, dude, I just got caught up on.

[A]

Yeah, well, welcome to the new world. As soon as you figure it out, it's on to the next. I don't think we can develop neural pathways that fast. We're at a point right now where I don't think. Think the average human can keep up with the rate of change. You know Moore's Law, right?

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Exponential. Like technology is exponentially increasing. That's not changing. Technology can change exponentially. Humans cannot.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The human mind cannot keep up with all the. Change is not possible. Like our grandparents, our parents and grandparents had one career, a career their entire life. You have to reinvent yourself like five times as a. As a professional today. You're constantly changing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

At what point?

[B]

Listen, Sorry, go ahead, go ahead.

[A]

At what point do we hit that firewall of like, why do we, like, is. Is better technology better or what? What is better?

[B]

Listen, that's a conversation over a beer or a bourbon or glass of wine, right? We could. We could solve the problem of the world, you know? Through that. Yeah, through that. And listen, the road for me, I drive the same way to work every day. Today there was an accident and they rerouted us. And you'd have thought my life changed. Like my life was over, right? It was just like two other rights. Right? But I'm such a creature. Habit. Anyways. And so I understand that piece of it, but I think. I think the restaurant. The restaurant business is a challenge. And I think some folks have said, I've had enough, and I think it's time for some new blood. Some people with new ideas. New ideas. Sorry, Old ideas have become new, Right? Like taking care of gas, like, about the experience. So for me, that's what I would share. And candidly, it was all about spending some time with you, my man. Oh, yeah, dude, that was it, right? I mean, when. When, you know, when you said you spent some time with me, I was like, dude, you know, my career, you've seen me forever, right? We get in some of these conversations that are thought provoking, right? And it's not the fluff. I'm going to give you a commercial. It's not the fluff of a lot of podcasts. Like, hey, tell me about your next promotion, right? Dude, I Do that all day long.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. These conversations are what make a difference. Thank you. And for people listening to this podcast, recognize these are challenging questions. Right. Challenging the leader like myself to rethink things.

[A]

I'm just trying to understand, man. The more I learned, more I realized I don't know anything. I think the more we learn, the more we realize we don't know anything. And all we can do to move in the right direction as fast as possible is to share perspective. Perspective. And to share knowledge. The same reason why you talk to your managers, to understand what's going on in the front lines. I think it's important that restaurant owners talk and share perspective and understand what's going on. Because for the first time ever, I think we can achieve collective consciousness of why up to this point, we have been reactive to consumerism. What does the consumer want? What does the consumer want? But I think that the market tells the consumer what they want because marketing influences the consumer. And most of the messaging is, you want more for less now.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that's what the consumer thinks they want because we're telling them, persuade, influencing them to believe this. Because that's what we can. That's how we can stand out.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I think what people want is what's actually happening. Gen Z Gen A want to be human again.

[B]

Yeah. And that's a.

[A]

That's not a want, that's a need.

[B]

Yeah, no, that's that. See, you always leave me with a couple things. You want me to leave you with things to think about? You leave me with things to think about.

[A]

Well, hey, let's keep the conversation going, man.

[B]

Yeah, it's really interesting.

[A]

So the mission statement is to inspire, empower, and transform the industry if we are moving into the future. Intentionally. What. What future do you want to see? Like what. What does that look like? If you could snap your fingers and have a. Have better industry, what would that look like?

[B]

I want us to be kind to each other.

[A]

How do we achieve that?

[B]

Oh, God, if I knew that answer, I wouldn't be sitting here. I want us to be kind to each other. Meaning that. And recognize that everyone's just trying to do the best they can. Right. When things go wrong, whether restaurant or somewhere else, just recognize everyone's trying hard. No one's trying to intentionally not be successful. Yeah. Right. And I think, you know, whether. Whether you're competition in a job and competition for work and competition for a part, you know, for me somewhere, and I'm not sure it was Covid, we lost that sense of Just being kind and doing the right thing. Right. That's how I grew up. Like, just do the right thing. And when did the right thing become wrong? Yeah. Right. And so, you know, my team, a lot of time, they'll ask me a question, I'm like, what's the right thing to do? What's the right thing? And let's just go do it. Yeah.

[A]

What are you most excited about right now? For the future of Velvet and for the industry?

[B]

Oh, I think we're on the tip of this whole. I love the fact that people can learn more about our brand and our food and where the food comes from and the importance of being chef driven and why it's important. You know, I mean, there was brands before they went out there and said they were, you know, straight from the farm, and people didn't know what that was back then when they started that whole mantra. Right. And I think people were lost about it. I think now people are seeing through brands aren't authentic. Yeah, Right. And I think authentic brands are going to succeed because, again, that little phone thing has changed the way people can look at you and understand you and realize very quickly whether you're authentic or not. And so for me, I'm excited about that. I'm excited about the fact that authentic brands will have room for. For growth and have an open dialogue around great food.

[A]

How do you protect the authenticity of a brand? How do you not like, how do you not lose that?

[B]

Again, listening. Right? Gut check. Listen, listen, listen, listen, listen. Ask, ask, ask. And as a leader, we go all the way back to the beginning. Don't be the smartest man or woman in the room. Yeah, Right. And that doesn't mean intelligently smart.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. For me, it's only, I don't have to be someone that's smarter than me, but someone that's willing to ask the questions and push and tug and. And, you know, all the way through it and. And be humble.

[A]

Yeah. So I'm gonna get vulnerable with you real quick when I say my mission statement is to inspire, empower, and transform the industry. Inspire with stories, empower with knowledge, transformation, transform with new perspective, new values, and to make a. It's a vision of an industry that I think is. Is better for all. Right. When I think about that, I think there needs to be fewer employees, more owners. I want to see a future where there's fewer 100 plus unit operators and more 20 to 30 operators. So I guess what I'm saying is, like, I. I recognize my bias.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I also Want to remain open to why? Different perspective.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like why more 100 unit operators? Why more 200 unit operators? So help be that counter perspective.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What is your argument for seeing more 200 unit operators? Keep me open.

[B]

Yeah. Because I. I don't think everyone's willing or able to take that risk. Right. There's got to be. People like us are like, hey, we'll take the risk for you. You still be a part of it. You still. You can. Can still help guide it. But not everyone's willing to take the risk. Or can they take the risk because they just can't. Because. Because they're not able to.

[A]

What's holding them back?

[B]

Some of it's financial. Yeah. So it's fear.

[A]

Is it possible it's financial because so many companies are getting so big, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and there's not enough resources?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I don't know either. But these are the questions I like to ask. I have a lot of respect for you, Chris, which is why I want you to convince me that there's more.

[B]

And I'm not going to convince you. I'll tell you my take on it, and I try not to. Well, I do. Heidi. I convinced her where to eat dinner again. I just think that. That not everyone's cut out for it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. And in trying to force them to do something they're not cut out for is setting them up for failure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I rather set them up for success. That means if you want to be the greatest, you know, My son's a violinist in the symphony. Great story. He's a violinist in the symphony. Right. He's the page. So he's a freshman and he's in the symphony in college. Went to school on a full ride. He turns the pages for the number one violinist. That's the most important job for him. You can't imagine how important that is to him.

[A]

I feel like I would be so bad.

[B]

And sometimes. Sometimes you have to do the page turn. Yeah. Sometimes you have to be a page turner. And I'm like, dude, you want to be the lead finalist? Like, maybe, dad, maybe at some point. But right now I'm as important as that person is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I'm turning the pages and I'm keeping them on track, and they're making beautiful music to make. To be part of this beautiful symphony. Yeah. And so I. Just let me finish. So I think sometimes some people are page turners and it's okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're still gonna be Part of this beautiful music that's being made. Now, if they want to be the number one violinist and they're being forced to be the patron because they're not being given the opportunity or the resources, then you're absolutely right.

[A]

Yeah. You know, I think Pareto's principal might come in here. I think that 80, 20 split. I think 80% of people are page turners.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think that they are managers and technicians and they want a job and they want to be good at their job and see for the thing they do. And then you get that 20% of people that are chaos, that are dreamers and creators and challenge.

[B]

Everything goes in my life.

[A]

Yeah. And I think Those are the CEOs, those are the founders. I wonder what that balance looks like. How does that manifest that 20, 80 split of, like, how do we find, like, I don't know if we have 20% of the world, our owners right now. I think it's getting closer to, like, 5%.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know.

[B]

Yeah. I think. I wouldn't disagree. Yeah. I think it. I think it's the. The willingness to make mistakes, the willingness to be vulnerable. It's hard to be vulnerable and everything's on the Internet. Right. Right. It's hard to make mistakes when everything is Internet.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. I even have to caution myself on things I say now. Right. That I never help with that.

[A]

Do.

[B]

I know you're fine. But I never would have. Right. I never would have because I just wouldn't have.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you have to be right. Because. Because we're the gotchas. Right. When this world become a gotcha world, like, everyone's looking for a gotcha.

[A]

I try not to do that.

[B]

I know. But. But Right. There aren't people that. It's becoming a little more. The gotcha world. Yeah. And.

[A]

Well, because the gotcha gets attention.

[B]

Got you. Gets intention.

[A]

And it's about attention. It's funny because we're raised. I was raised to be humble, to not seek attention and just to do a good job and to keep your mouth shut and to, like, earn respect. And I feel like today the way you get successful is to do the complete opposite of that. You ask for attention, you do things to stand out. And it's a counterintuitive to the way I was.

[B]

It is. But, you know, do you. Do you think that'll change?

[A]

I hope so.

[B]

I think we all do. I think we all do. I think, you know, at the end, what I'd tell you is, is that I'm. I'm grateful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm very grateful. And as am I. I think that, you know, I think I told you a story several years back, but I. I write down three things every morning I'm grateful for in a little book that I keep at my. My breakfast table. And I write down three things I'm grateful every single morning. It just reminds me. Just reminds you to be grateful, Right? Just reminds me that. That it starts today, being grateful.

[A]

Are you willing to share with those three things, sir?

[B]

No, of course not.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't. I don't share them with Heidi, you know.

[A]

Well, I can. I can leave some room for some privacy.

[B]

So let's go. Good.

[A]

Couple more questions. We're gonna wrap it up. We're at the end of the interview. Is there one thing that you've recently done that's out of, like, in your short time here that's had a big impact, that's moved the needle with. It's probably been too short, I would imagine.

[B]

Well, I'll tell you one thing. One thing I've done is I've changed kind of the way we look at things. So every. I started meeting happy to be here, you know that term with the Blue Angels. You know that story?

[A]

Did you say happy? Start every meeting saying, happy to be here.

[B]

Happy to be here. You know that story with the Blue Angels. So, you know Blue Angels, Right, of course. So we were blessed fortunate enough. One of the folks who worked for Smud, his nephew, was the number one. He was number one, the lead commander of Blue Angels. Right. And they visited in Seattle one time, and he walked in first. I was like, yeah, that's an Air Force pilot, of course. Right. But he went through the fact that they do. They do pre. Reefs and debriefs after. After every event, right. In their pre briefs, they go through every single step they're going to take, visualize it, and the next person speaks in the next. And then on debriefs, the very same thing. But before they speak, they say, I'm happy to be here. And the team says, happy to have you. And then they go through the debrief. He said, it's just a reminder, no matter what I'm going to talk about, just want to remind everybody I'm happy to be here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the person goes. And the team, the collective team goes, glad to have you. And then you move into whatever you're gonna talk about. Yeah. So it's shift.

[A]

Shifting the mind.

[B]

Shifting the mind, right? So I started every meeting I have here at Velvet. Happy to be here, because I Am happy to be here. And I want to remind people that I'm asking a lot of whys and why are we doing that and what's going on, but damn, I'm happy to be here. Yeah.

[A]

What's one thing about your business? A value, a process, a system or just uniquely about you since you, your, your impression here at valvetaco is still so fresh. What is one thing about you that is truly unstoppable?

[B]

I'm an operator. I'm a restaurant operator. I don't try to be anything else but restaurant operator. Go ask the people that are really good at marketing. Go ask the finance person. Go ask the people they're good at what they do, how to do something. Yeah.

[A]

The mission statement is to change the world through inspiring, empowering and transforming the rest. Restaurant industry. And I think the restaurant industry, if there is an industry that's going to change the world. Second largest industry in the world behind the government. It used to be third. We just surpassed healthcare.

[B]

I know. Yeah.

[A]

Which is crazy.

[B]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[A]

So we have like transformative influence. So how have you personally transformed. How are you a better man today than the man you were when you got started in this industry?

[B]

I'm more humble. I'm more humble and in, in all the people's lives I've affected. Yeah. Right. To me that at the end of the day, I want to be judged by the number of people I affected life. Not by the amount of dollars I made, the titles I got.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I want to be judged by the number of people that I made an influencer. I. I made an influence in our life somewhere.

[A]

I love that. And this is the last question. It's a doozy.

[B]

Get ready for it.

[A]

I think you might have already answered this. If you got the news you'd be leaving this world tomorrow. All the memories of you, your work in your restaurants would be lost with your departure. With the exception of three pieces of wisdom that you could leave behind for the good of humanity and your legacy. What would those three pieces of wisdom be? And I'm going to grab a. A selfie while you're thinking about that one.

[B]

Three piece legacy. Be humble. One, Be grateful.

[A]

Two,

[B]

Never forget where you came from. The three.

[A]

This has been a lot of fun.

[B]

Cheers. I appreciate it.

[A]

Thank you, Chris.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

I really let my. I really try to let my current guests influence the future of the show.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Success recognizes success. Good people recognize good people. Who in this industry has your respect. They're doing it right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're. They're taking care of their people. They're making an impact. And they're making money while they do it, too. Because while it's not all about money, we need that fiscal response.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So who are those?

[B]

I think the last time I said Howard Br. Greg Johnson or somebody. I think last time Randy DeWitt and Jack Gibbons, the two. The two founders and CEOs of Front Burner Restaurants, the ones that invented Velvet Taco. They're the. They're the minds behind so many brands here. Mexican, Sugar, Haywire. They're the guys that started. All right. And they've made a huge impact. I mean, Dallas is. It's a Brinker town, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But Front Burner, there's just. They've done a ton of brands here and they kind of get it. Yeah, they kind of get it. They understand what consumers are looking for. And. Yeah, I dig those guys. Yep.

[A]

Jack Gibbons is the past guest in the show. I think I have on like three

[B]

or four years ago.

[A]

So I might want to give it another a year or two before I go. Some more has happened in his life next time. So we can go deep like we did with you today. Randy, Give it or do it right is on my radar. I've been in contact with him.

[B]

Good.

[A]

He wasn't in town. I think he's opening another restaurant.

[B]

He's over a restaurant in New York. Yeah.

[A]

So we weren't able to connect on this trip, but I would. I'm very well aware of what he's doing. I would love to get him on the show.

[B]

He's great.

[A]

And Greg Johnson, was that the other name you said? Tell me more about who's.

[B]

He worked with me at Starbucks. He's just. He's an influencer. And then I, you know, I think you. I think. Have you. Have you spoken to Scott Svensson?

[A]

Scott? I don't think so. How do you spell Svensson?

[B]

S V E, N. S O, N. He started Seattle Coffee company in the UK that sold the Starbucks. And he was the founder of Mod. And now he's part of a group called Evergreen.

[A]

I might have had him on the show.

[B]

You may have.

[A]

I would love to reconnect with him as well. Greg, Randy. Jack. Scott, look out. I'm coming after you guys.

[B]

Dude, get after him.

[A]

I'd love to get him on the show. And how can we connect with you if we really enjoyed today's conversation? If you want to follow the work you're doing. I don't know if you take emails or anything. Whatever you're willing.

[B]

I do I take emails. Sure. Of course I take. I give you my phone number. I don't care. It's just Chris, period Schultz. Velvet taco.com.

[A]

beautiful.

[B]

Simple as that.

[A]

Check out the show notes. We'll have all the links to anything mentioned today, tool, services or books mentioned. We'll try to link in the show notes as well as how to connect with Chris. And Chris, this is where I say thank you so much.

[B]

Oh, thank you, Eric. I appreciate you. We're going to do a fifth time. Oh, I promise you.

[A]

Yeah. We'll be back in five years.

[B]

I appreciate you.

[A]

Yeah. And this is where I say I cannot do what I do without people like you getting open, honest, vulnerable. You. There is no questioning. You are definitely unstoppable.

[B]

I appreciate it.

[A]

Cheers.

[B]

Thanks. Cheers.

[A]

There's another episode wrapped up here at Restaurant Unstoppable. Special thanks to our guest today, Chris Schultz. It's been so much fun to reconnect with Chris over the years. The third or fourth time I've had him on the show now, and I just can't say enough how much I appreciate how willing he is to get open to get vulnerable. I do not ask easy questions. I put people in weird spots. And, you know, I just can't express enough how grateful I am that these people are willing to. To let me put them in those positions. And they just continue to. To handle these questions with. With such grace. Thank you, Chris Schultz. Thank you, Velvet Taco. And if you're enjoying these podcasts and if you enjoy today's episode, then be sure to join us live in Restaurant Unstop for coffee with Eric. Chris Schultz will be live on April 6th at 11am Eastern Time. If you want to connect with Chris, ask him the questions you wish I asked him, then head over to Restaurant Unstoppable.com C W E that stands for coffee with Eric. We'll get you the zoom link and be sure to join us again on 4/6 at 11am Eastern. And if you're enjoying this podcast and you want to support what we're doing, head over to restaurantstoppable.com live. Be a part of this and future conversations. We're bringing the industry together. I'm connecting you with the best in the industry. We go further together, and I'm here to serve you. When you join the community, I'm paying attention. I will put together panels for you. I'll put together conversations for you like, I'm here to serve you. I'm here to connect you with the best. So let me what you let me know what you want. And then lastly, just if you could leave a review, if you could subscribe, if you could share this thing with everyone. You know, that helps so much with us getting the word out there. Thank you in advance. That's it for today. Until next time. Peace out.