1261: Alex Camp & Cuyler Esposito, VP of Operations Services, VP of Culture Operations at Layne's Chicken Fingers

Summary

Restaurant Unstoppable #1261: The Secrets Behind Layne’s Chicken’s Explosive Growth

Podcast: Restaurant Unstoppable with Eric Cacciatore
Episode: 1261
Guests: Alex Camp (VP of Operations Services) & Kyler Esposito (VP of Culture Operations), Layne’s Chicken Fingers
Date: March 16, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, host Eric Cacciatore dives deep into the organizational DNA behind Layne’s Chicken Fingers’ rapid expansion and cult following. Speaking with Alex Camp (VP of Operations Services) and Kyler Esposito (VP of Culture Operations), the conversation explores leadership philosophies, operations strategy, franchisee relations, and the cultural pillars that set Layne's apart. The episode highlights practical wisdom for restaurateurs aiming to scale without losing their soul, and distills lessons learned from turbulent franchise experiences.

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Layne’s Growth Journey & Ambitions

• Layne’s expanded from 24 to 41 locations in the past year, nearly hitting its aggressive growth goal (06:02–06:16).
• Ambitious plans to double in size again, eyeing 80+ locations by next year (06:41–06:56).

Quote:
"The growth potential that we have on the radar is just astronomical. It's a wild ride, but it's a fun one." — Alex Camp, [06:48]

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2. Defining Roles: Operations Services vs. Culture Operations

• Alex (Ops Services): The “nervous system” connecting all departments—analyzing data, optimizing systems, ensuring execution matches the big vision. Reports to COO Samir. (07:20–08:01)
• Kyler (Culture Ops): “Eyes, ears, and voice of the franchisee.” Focused on franchisee support, relationship building, ensuring the brand-protective symbiosis between franchisor and franchisee. (08:38–10:17)

Quote:
"I am the eyes, the ears, and the voice of the franchisee...to not only protect the brand, but protect the franchisee." — Kyler Esposito, [08:38]

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3. Leadership Philosophies

• Alex: Servant leadership—leading by serving others. (05:15)
• Kyler: “Dream as if you’ll live forever, live as if you’ll die today.” A philosophy inspired by Kyler’s late father, tying personal legacy to professional passion. (05:37)

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4. Backstories: Hard-Won Experience

Alex Camp

• East Texas roots; first job at Taco Bell ("quirky people" felt like home) (11:31–13:23)
• Rose through Jason’s Deli to GM, but hit growth ceiling—learned people-centric leadership there. (14:01–17:15)
• Fuzzy’s Taco Shop: Transitioned into franchise training and ops analytics; learned the significance of supporting franchisees above all else. (17:21–27:03)
• “The heaviest burden you’ll ever carry is an empty bag… all the missed opportunities and regrets.” [17:21]

Kyler Esposito

• Started in hospitality to make money during college (28:58)
• Advertising degree; father’s illness steered him into entrepreneurship (29:57)
• Became a Tropical Smoothie franchisee (2015), scaling up via multi-unit deals. (30:55–34:44)
• Lessons: Investing in people & building bench strength is foundational to scalable growth. (35:22)
• Experience with Nukes Eatery: Learned the pain of losing operational control and the perils when franchisor priorities drift from franchisee support. (37:32–40:34)
• Takeaway: “If the franchisor doesn’t have your best interest in mind, then you are going to fail.” [40:11]

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5. Protect the Brand, Protect the Franchisee

• Both guests drove home the mantra: “Protect the brand, protect the franchisee.” This governs all decision-making, from tech investments to operational improvements and cultural norms. (27:19–29:31)
• Past failures in other organizations stemmed from losing this dual focus.

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6. Building Trust, Relationships, and the Right Internal Structure

• Layne’s prioritizes frequent, open communication with franchisees, fostering over-communication and transparency (49:29).
• Selection of franchisees is highly values-driven; “quirky but serious” is apparently the archetype (93:04).

Quote:
"As soon as franchisees lose trust with us, everything can go to shit." — Kyler, [43:16]

• Leadership intentionally resists over-corporatizing, wanting to retain the “small brand feel” while scaling. (57:35)
• Internal meetings and direct, personal touches (including founders) help maintain the cultural core as headcount increases. (78:22–79:06)

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7. Operations, Tech Stack & Scalability

• KISS (Keep It Simple): Current POS system (Revel), HME for drive-through, Restaurant365 for back-office; more automation/data warehousing is in the pipeline, but only when franchisee-friendly and needed for scale (59:08–61:05).
• “If it isn’t broken, don’t fix it. We don’t want to burden franchisees with unnecessary changes or costly upgrades.” — Alex Camp [52:24]
• Exploration of data analytics tools is ongoing, with the focus on building for the company Layne’s will be at 100+ units (61:12–61:15).

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8. Culture, Scaling, and Dunbar’s Number

• Discussion of applying Dunbar’s number (max 150 meaningful relationships) to maintaining strong connections as the company grows (74:41–79:20).
• Intentional groupings, regular meetings, and embedded relationship-building strategies are designed to make scaling human, not just structural.

Quote:
"If we can do that, it would be really powerful...it’s all about relationships and keeping those relationships strong as we scale." — Eric (83:41–85:25)

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9. Franchisee Development & “Building the Bench”

• The #1 lesson: Invest in, develop, and assess store-level leaders regularly—store performance is a byproduct of store-level leadership (67:03).
• GMs must be coaches, not just firefighters—creating leadership pipelines at every franchise unit facilitates sustainable multi-unit growth.

Quote:
"If you can invest in the people on the front end and you can build the bench and get buy-in...it sets you up for growth in the future." — Kyler, [35:22]

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10. Layne’s Four Pillars & Distinctive Culture

• Hot Food Fast: Food should always be correct and fresh.
• Over the Top (OTT): Hospitality isn’t “transactional”—team members are empowered to create “wow” moments out of inconvenience. (89:31)
• 15 to 1: Based on Yelp data—out of 15 reviews, only one is about food, the rest are about service. The aim: hospitality so powerful guests can’t help but talk about it. [89:31–90:24]
• Astral Chicken: Internal mascot signifying “quirky but tactical”—balancing fun and seriousness. (93:04–93:49)

Quote:
"It's about being inconvenient for yourself for the convenience of others. That’s generosity. That’s warmth." — Eric, [90:24]

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.” — Kyler [05:37]
• “The heaviest burden you’ll ever carry is an empty bag.” — Alex [17:21]
• "If the franchisor doesn’t have your best interest in mind, then you are going to fail." — Kyler [40:11]
• “If you want to be a franchisee and this is just an investment, it's probably not the best place for you.” — Kyler [94:13]
• “Dance naked.” — Alex’s advice for enjoying life (104:54)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------------|--------------| | Layne’s growth snapshot | 06:02–06:56 | | Leadership philosophies/mantras | 05:15–05:37 | | Alex’s & Kyler’s backgrounds | 11:31–17:15, 28:58–34:44 | | Protect the Brand, Protect the Franchisee | 27:19–29:31 | | Franchisee development/building bench | 67:03–70:27 | | Operations & tech stack | 59:08–61:05 | | Dunbar’s number & scale/culture discussion| 74:41–79:20 | | The "four pillars" of Layne’s | 89:31–90:24 | | Recruiting the right types of franchisees | 93:04–94:13 | | Lightning round: 3 pieces of wisdom | 102:58–104:16|

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Final Takeaways & Actionable Wisdom

• People First, Always: Whether it’s culture, ops, or franchising, Layne’s believes great results follow empowered people—and that investment on the front end (training, leadership, care) pays off tenfold.
• Protect the Brand, Protect the Franchisee: This dual mantra is a non-negotiable in decision-making and the company’s “true north.”
• Trust & Transparency: High-touch, repetitive communication builds the trust needed to scale rapidly without becoming disconnected or “just another chain.”
• Simple, Proven Models: Layne’s eschews unnecessary tech or complexity in favor of scalable, franchisee-friendly systems—always looking ahead to the next level of growth, but never at the expense of operator sanity or profit.
• Hospitality is Everything: The team lives and breathes the “15 to 1” philosophy—service and human connection are what get guests talking and keep them loyal.
• Recruiting the Right People: Layne’s success isn’t about “warm bodies” or deep checkbooks—it’s about energy, quirkiness, seriousness, and buy-in to the Astral Chicken ethos.

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Who Should Listen?

• Restaurateurs seeking to franchise, build, or scale a people-centered brand
• Hospitality professionals interested in best practices for franchise operations and culture
• Aspiring franchisees and multi-unit operators—especially in QSR

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For Further Learning

• Listen to Layne’s CEO Garrett Reed (Ep. 1193) & COO Samir (Ep. 1197) for more backstory
• Books Mentioned: The Social Brain (on Dunbar’s number and organizational scaling)

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Guests Highlighted for Future Episodes:

• Mike & Jen Todrick (Armor Coffee/Brewing)
• Courtney Smith (industry veteran, marketing/sales expertise)
• Paul D’Amico (multi-brand executive)

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Closing Thought

"Layne’s is trying to change what franchising and operations at scale look like—not with slogans, but by relentlessly serving, supporting, and building up their people, all the way from the support office to the drive-thru window."

Transcript

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Welcome to restaurant unstoppable. For 10 years and over 1,000 episodes, I've been traveling the country chasing word of mouth leads and having in person only long form discussions with the industry's finest owners and operators. Our mission is to inspire, empower and transform the restaurant industry by bridging the gap between this generation's leaders and the next. Listen to today's guest and so many others and get one step closer to becoming unstoppable. This episode is made possible by Restaurant Systems Pro and beginning in January 2026, Restaurant Systems Pro is going to be doing a 30 day mastery program. This is valued at $4,000 and if

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[Brian]

Allow me to introduce to you today's Guest Culture Operations VP&VP of Operations Services Kyler Esposito and Alex Camp. Kyler, Alex, you guys feeling unstoppable today?

[Alex Camp]

You know it stopped.

[Kyler Esposito]

We're ready to go.

[Brian]

I'm stoked to be here. So I was here about a year ago. I got to speak with Garrett and Amir or sorry, Samir. Amazing dudes. I love what you're doing here with Lane's Chicken. The story is really unique. It's really aggressive. Last year you're at 24 locations. You're they. The goal was to get to 44 locations. This year I think you guys got really close. I can't wait to dive into your unique niches again. Culture Operations and operations services, both VPs. So this is going to be good. Before we dive into individually, each of you, who you are and how you got to where you are today and what's going on here at Lane's Chicken one year later, let's get that motivational inspirational ball rolling with a success quote or mantra. What do you got for us?

[Alex Camp]

Yeah Looking back and, you know, going through my past, I think I would lean towards servant leadership, something that was instilled in me and a different position that I was in. And that's just about serving by leading others.

[Brian]

I love it.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Brian]

And that was Alex on the mic. Get to know the voices. And what do you got for us, Tyler?

[Kyler Esposito]

Sure. I think this, you know, it's a quote. It's a quote that comes from my old man and it'll make more sense as we get into my story and how I got into the restaurant business. But it's dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today. And it all make a lot more sense when we get into the introduction into restaurants and the early part of my career. But it's just something that, you know, I keep with me every day and you know, we'll dive into why that means so much.

[Brian]

Got it. So before we get into each of your, your come up stories, help me understand where is Lanes today? So last year, 24 locations. I think you guys are at 41 locations, correct?

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Brian]

So didn't quite hit your goal, but that's still pretty dang close.

[Alex Camp]

We doubled in size. Yeah. 100.

[Brian]

And you came on Alex in 2024.

[Alex Camp]

2024. Yes, sir.

[Brian]

In February you were here. This is your fourth month. You're new to the team.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yep, I came in beginning December.

[Brian]

Nice. So lots of exciting things happening here at Lane, So. Yeah. And 24 locations. Sorry, 41 locations. Correct.

[Alex Camp]

Correct.

[Brian]

And what is like, I mean, I guess kind of give me a snapshot like what's going on? Like.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, I mean, we're, as of today, we're looking to double in size again. So we're looking to add an additional 45 units or more this year.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Alex Camp]

So I mean, the growth potential that we have on the radar is just astronomical. Yeah. So, I mean, it's a wild ride that we're on, but it's a fun one.

[Brian]

And I can't wait to get into the strategy behind executing this and what you learned from one year of doubling in size and how that's going to change over the next year. And just real quick, what is relative to Lane's hot? I want. I talked to so many hot chicken places, I just want to call it hot Chicken relative to Lane's chicken fingers. What does it mean to be a VP of Operation Services? Like, what does that entail?

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, it's a multifaceted role. So in different organizations it can mean different things. Yeah, I like to try to summarize it as, you know, the. Just the system between all systems. Right. So if you put it into the human body terms, maybe like the. The nervous system or the, you know, how it relays information from, you know, maybe above to below or below to above. It's just. And it synchronizes all different departments.

[Brian]

And your direct communication, your direct report is to Samir.

[Alex Camp]

Correct.

[Brian]

So you're kind of like mini smear.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, yeah, I'll take that.

[Brian]

Keys. Like, you're in. You're in that same realm of operations, efficiencies. Constantly looking to tweak things.

[Alex Camp]

Correct. 100.

[Brian]

So how do you guys divide? Like, what does Samir focus on? What do you focus on?

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, so Samir and Garrett and the team, they're all real big picture, you know, three years, five years, so forth and so on. And they're all about, you know, franchise or relationships and just where's the brand going and what is the presence of the brand, not only today, but in the future? Yeah. So he really leans on Kyler, myself, and the other team members here to, like, how do we execute against that?

[Brian]

Yeah. And same thing for you. VP of. I've just switched my notes. So many titles. For the record, I'm doing three interviews today, so I got a lot in my head. Please forgive me. VP of Culture Operations. What does that entail?

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah, sure. So I think the easiest way to, you know, simplify it is I am the eyes, the ears, and the voice of the franchisee. So everything that we do to get the stores open and everything that's a part of that. And then once they're open and everything is handed over to the operations side of the business, myself and the team were the ones who are there to, you know, not only protect the brand, but protect the franchisee and then make sure that they have a voice at the table when it comes to the support.

[Brian]

Yeah, I. I love you how that you said that? Because when I was here last year, I think that quote or tagline, protect a brand, protect a franchisee probably came up like 10 or 15 times. That's really your motto?

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Brian]

As franchisors, you're all about protecting the brand and all about. About protecting the franchisee. And I meant to give a little teaser. If you guys did not catch the first interviews I did with the founder or CEO, I should say, because it was not necessarily founded by Garrett. That was, I want to say, 11:19 or, sorry, 11:93. And then Samir was episode 1197. If you want to hit pause Right now. Go get caught up. Listen to those episodes. We kind of go deep into the backstory of lanes and, you know, where they were one year ago, and we're kind of picking up where we left off. So again, those episodes, 1193 for Garrett, the CEO, and 1197 for Samir, the CEO, and that's your job, really, is protective brand, protect the franchise. You specifically, like, you're. Like, you're in between. Like, you're making sure, like, you're the voice for the franchisee, and you're also the voice for the brand, and you're where the rubber meets the road, basically, 100%.

[Kyler Esposito]

I mean, day to day, it's. It's, you know, communication, relationship building with the franchisees and then making sure that, you know, what they want to accomplish is being accomplished. And if there is any roadblocks or bottlenecks at the corporate support center, making sure that I bring those to the team so that we can find, you know, processes and solutions in order to ultimately achieve, you know, the growth and the sales and the profitability that every franchisee wants.

[Brian]

Yeah. So you kind of think of it in the sense of. Alex, you're kind of like the analytical data. You're looking at all the tech, all the numbers, all the information that's being produced by the actions, and you're more on the qualitative, emotional, listening to the front line, pulling back that feedback. This is working. That's not working. And bringing that. That. You're quantitative, Alex, and you would be quality. Sorry. Quantitative, qualitative. On the, like, franchisee front for you, Kyler.

[Alex Camp]

Correct.

[Brian]

That's really cool. Okay, so who wants to go first in terms of, like, why should we be listening to you guys? Help us understand, you know, what's the. What's the backstory? What makes you somebody who's deserving of this position?

[Alex Camp]

Oh, I mean, I can go first,

[Brian]

but let's work left to right. It seems. It feels natural.

[Alex Camp]

So backstory. So everything from where I came from and so forth and so on.

[Brian]

Yeah, man. Get into it.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah. So born and raised in a small town in East Texas. I say small. Let's go mid size. I don't want to offend them, but it's Tyler, Texas, about two and a half hours outside of Dallas. Family and I, we lived in a much smaller town just east of that, and it's called Edom. So one of those. One of those cities out there that just had, like, one stop sign, one gas station, two churches. That kind of a place. Right. So very backwoods back roads and things of that nature. And then so living out there, there's not a lot of opportunities for where you want to get started as a young man in any kind of career. So my parents said, hey, look, we'll, we'll buy you a vehicle. You know, at 15, you'll get your learner's permit. And then if you want to put gas in that thing and you want to go do stuff, you're gonna have to go get a job.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

Right. So that's what I did. I went and found a, a job at Taco Bell and I started off as drive thru and then just kind of worked my way up there and worked there for about four years or so until I graduated high school.

[Brian]

And you ended up at Jason's Deli in 2011. So what, what year were you in high school? And like.

[Alex Camp]

Yes. Yeah. Right around, let's say 96 to 2000.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Brian]

And what were you doing between 2000 and 2011 before going to.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, there was a little bit of retail, so I worked for an insurance company. I worked for a local western ware company doing shipping and receiving. Realized that it just really wasn't my gig.

[Brian]

Yeah. What was missing?

[Alex Camp]

The people. Yeah, the people, the, the atmosphere, the fast pace. Because as going into a restaurant industry as your first job, you really, really realized, and I think I told Kyler this, maybe today, yesterday, that the, the people that work in the restaurants can be a little quirky, you know, to say the least. Right. And that's where I was. Like, I think I kind of fit in here.

[Brian]

Yeah. I think that's why so many people choose this industry. Because you can be yourself.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, you can be yourself.

[Brian]

Like, what does it mean to be quote unquote, professional in like the corporate world? That means being very in line and follow. Like, I mean, it's good. Like, I'm not anti professionalism, but it's so you can work well with a lot of different people. You don't want to offend anybody. So you kind of have to be this like watered down version of yourself.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah. Right.

[Brian]

But in the restaurant industry, we're like,

[Alex Camp]

yeah, we'll take you. Yeah.

[Brian]

You know, like you're good.

[Alex Camp]

All cards play 100%.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Be yourself.

[Brian]

It's, it's really, it makes it, it feels so good to be you.

[Alex Camp]

Yep.

[Brian]

Yeah. So 14 years with Jason's Deli. So how did you find yourself with Jason's Deli?

[Alex Camp]

Yeah. So decided the, the retail side of it wasn't for me. Yeah. Went and just looked At, I mean, this will date me as well, but I mean, went through a newspaper, found a, an app for a position as a manager for Jason's Deli. And Tyler applied and they said, hey, yeah, we'll get you on board. And then they just put, they put me right into. As a line cook and just start learning different positions. Right. Not into a management role because they, they valued the, the growth path there. Right. Which at the time I didn't understand, but I really started to learn real quick what that meant. Yeah. Because they did a good job as far as training and people up through the ladder and so forth and so on. So I worked every position in the deli, got to a point where there were any more positions for me and they said, hey, if you're interested, we have a open spot in Addison, Texas as a. They call it a two way, you know, so entry level management. I was like, yeah, it's time for me to branch out. Yeah, you know, so I said, okay, packed up my bags because I just broke up with my girlfriend, all sorts of stuff. So timing was right.

[Brian]

Oh, perfect.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah. I was like, yeah, get me out of here. Let's roll. So I went, moved up to Dallas and then started that. And then I met a ton of really cool people through Jason's Deli. And then how long did it take

[Brian]

you to go from getting all that, experiencing all the different roles to getting that management opportunity?

[Alex Camp]

Oh, years.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Alex Camp]

Honestly, it was a slow pace back then.

[Brian]

And where was Jason's Deli when you joined? Like, it's a franchise, correct?

[Alex Camp]

No, it's, it's mainly corporately owned. They do have a couple of franchises out in like Nevada and things of that nature, but I would probably say I don't know the number.

[Brian]

So you're working for the corporation.

[Alex Camp]

Correct.

[Brian]

And how many units were they at this time?

[Alex Camp]

Don't remember.

[Brian]

Ballpark.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, 130, maybe three somewhere. That. To 300. I don't know.

[Brian]

I'm gonna have to refrain from trying to get into all the details of everything. So we have two storylines to cover. But anyway, so you, you get promoted to the, the management, like basically grooming system and you I guess take it from there.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

And start walking through that. So then I just worked at different locations here in Dallas and went from Addison to position in LBJ and then eventually got into a GM position in Frisco and worked there for probably three or four years running a high volume store, a lot of catering. And at that point it was like, okay, what are, what are next Steps for me.

[Brian]

What was your title when you got to your highest point?

[Alex Camp]

It was general manager.

[Brian]

General manager.

[Alex Camp]

Yes.

[Brian]

And was that for one location?

[Alex Camp]

It was one location.

[Brian]

Okay. And why get away from that? Like, I'm assuming you grew a lot during this time.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, Yeah. A lot of.

[Brian]

A lot of.

[Alex Camp]

A lot of growing. A lot of all that good stuff. You know, learned every position, learned how to manage people. The list goes on and on. But eventually you get to a point where there just weren't any district role opportunities. And that's not anybody's fault. Definitely not their fault. It's just I needed something different. I needed to, like, what can I do more? Right. Because the drive is always still there to grow my career path. And so then I got reached out by a buddy of mine, and he worked for Fuzzy's Taco Shop. So they said, hey, look, Fuzzy Taco Shop needs somebody over here. We need a training store gm. We know you're a good GM over here, and. But there's opportunities for growth, and opportunities is always what kind of sells me as I move along. Right. I think the quote goes, the heaviest burden you'll ever carry is an empty bag. And that empty bag is relation is relating to all the missed opportunities and all the just the what ifs.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

Right. And regrets.

[Brian]

Right. Yeah. And I mean, sometimes you got to take a step back or to the side to have a higher ceiling, too. Maybe there wasn't that upward mobility for you anymore. You hit a ceiling with Jason.

[Alex Camp]

Right.

[Brian]

Jason's Deli. So you saw that there was more potential with you for fuzzies.

[Alex Camp]

Correct.

[Brian]

So I'm curious, during this time with Jason's, what did you learn about yourself in terms of, like, if you're becoming a specialist, what are you gravitating towards? What are the things that really get you your juices going?

[Alex Camp]

Yeah. Honestly, it's all about leadership. So it's. And that's where I learned that quote and that mantra, if you will, about servant leadership. Yeah. The. The late Joe Tutoris, that was the CEO of Jason's Deli back then. They used to have huge meetings about just. Only that. Right. How do we serve our people and how do we invest in them? And whatever kind of day that they're having to be able to get the most out of them, the most out of ourselves. Right. So it was always about being shoulder to shoulder and just working with people to lead them in the right direction and ultimately serving them. Not to be the boss, per se, quote unquote, but to be a counterpart that they can lean on.

[Brian]

Yeah, I think traditionally we think of the boss. Everyone here that is employed is here to serve me and my business. But it's. The reality is that inverted hierarchy of everyone that I hire now becomes somebody I'm responsible for serving. That mindset of really, I exist to make sure you're successful. Correct. It's huge shift in frame of mind. So what was it like when you, when you joined Fuzzies?

[Alex Camp]

Honestly, a little chaotic at first, but that's okay. Different brand, different switch.

[Brian]

Where was Fuzzies when you joined?

[Alex Camp]

This is 2021 had eight corporate stores and I don't remember how many franchise units we had at the point I wasn't privy to the details.

[Brian]

Ballpark, if you had a guess, probably

[Alex Camp]

north of a hundred, south of 140.

[Brian]

And you were specifically working with the franchisees?

[Alex Camp]

I was, yes. No, it was the corporate locations that I was working for. Okay, so we were the corporate training store to train franchise.

[Brian]

That's what you got recruited for, huh? Right. So this is new for you, the world of training.

[Alex Camp]

Correct.

[Brian]

Well, you were training as a general

[Alex Camp]

manager, training as your manager, but not training franchisees. So that was my real true introduction to the franchisee side of things.

[Brian]

Right. And that's really the biggest difference that I've learned between being an independent operator or corporation where you, you know, as a franchisor, your new employee becomes the franchisee. So it's still relationships, but now you're. Instead of helping a frontline employee be the best at their job and to create opportunity with them within that organization to say, get to general manager or manager. Now you're thinking, okay, well now my job is to serve this franchisee, to help them be successful with their store and to see if I can't help them scale and create more store stores so that you're just there to train them at the world of being a franchisee.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Brian]

So what was that like for you?

[Jason]

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[Brian]

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[Jason]

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[Alex Camp]

It was good. I really enjoyed being able to partner with franchisees and just be able to show them everything that we were doing in the store. But then to learn more about them, their background, their stories, what were their concerns? Because it's a. It's a different concern. Yeah, they're going to walk in and talk to me about things that at that time I had no idea about. Right. And so it was, it was eye opening and I really enjoyed that. And I did that for Probably a good year or year and a half. And then I made some move to a district manager and was running all the eight corporate locations.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Alex Camp]

So stepped out of the franchisee part, but then still have my fingers on it because I was overseeing the training store as well through the GM that was there.

[Brian]

Got it. And this is where you met Samir?

[Alex Camp]

I was, yes. Samir was after the fact. So once I was a dm, I did that for about a year or so. And then they pulled me into the corporate office to be a strategic business analytics kind of guy.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Alex Camp]

So.

[Brian]

So this is where the shift from being really server leadership mindset, IT folks focused to. They saw something in you where you. You had the analytic too. And I saw your background too. Like you. Did you go to school for technology?

[Alex Camp]

I didn't. I went to school briefly for architecture.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Still, I think like a technical, like right side, left is. Right is like technical right or right emotional.

[Kyler Esposito]

There's still a lot of nerd in you is what he's getting at.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, that's what he's saying. And yeah, you're not wrong.

[Brian]

Yeah. So did. Did you have a relationship with Samir around this time or were you.

[Alex Camp]

Not necessarily. I was working more with the operations side and then our CFO at that point. And then once I knew of Samir because obviously we were in the building. But then it started. That's where our relationship started to bond. And at one point we were all kind of riding to the office together. I was learning more about him, he's learning more about me. And then we were, you know, a cohesive group inside the Fuzzy's organization. So naturally I'm going to know and get to know him better.

[Brian]

How did you take to the more technical side of operations less honestly, I

[Alex Camp]

mean, it was a. I loved it because I am kind of nerdy when it comes to that. I've always, like, you just heard my background. It was always boots on the ground. And then to be able to kind of step back and see, okay, what does that correlate to? What does that result in? And how do we drive different metrics off of that was. Was really inspiring.

[Brian]

How did this change your perspection or your perspective of the restaurant industry? How did you start seeing the restaurant industry differently?

[Alex Camp]

That there's a lot of moving gears behind the scenes. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, there's. When you start talking about your controllables, non controllables. When you start looking at different metrics from guest perspective or franchisee perspective or operational is you start to learn what different departments are doing and how those are all intertwined and start to play. It's, It's. There's a lot of moving parts. Yeah.

[Brian]

So was there a struggle for you in that, that evolution?

[Alex Camp]

No, I think it was actually kind of natural.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

So as. Because it was a slower pace. So I came in, started doing more of the business analytics and project management, and then I moved into an op services role there because then I was. Then I was at that point where, okay, I'm collecting all the data, I'm helping the data analysts, I am working with market and procurement and IT and getting all of their assets and information, compiling it into board decks. We had just been acquired by dime brands or. No, it was a different brand before that, but it was a, you know, multiple brands were acquiring us, so there was always different board decks. We had to do, you know, quarterly meetings, all that stuff. And so I was kind of the center point, the focal point for everybody to get all that information too, and dissect and then to present.

[Brian]

Yeah. Anything about your time with Fuzzies before we transition to talking about lanes that you want to lay on us in terms of like, key points, key lessons, anything.

[Alex Camp]

The key lessons I would say that I took away from Fuzzies would. Would be that it really is about the franchisee. You know, so as when I moved to that corporate office role and was working more with the FAC group and going to the conferences and learning about franchisees and helping them with. With, you name it back, office systems, third party integrations, whatever that is. It's. That's where I really learned to say, okay, yeah, it's. It's all about the franchisee. Yeah. It's not about us, it's about them and their success. To Kyler's point.

[Brian]

Right. And if I recall my conversation with Samir, they closed a bunch of locations.

[Alex Camp]

They did. Yeah, they did. For one reason or another, they did.

[Brian]

Is there a lesson there that you pulled from that, that you want to apply going forward to not replicate what. What happened in that situation or.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, I'll tell you that. My lessons printed right above my head. I don't know if everybody can see that, but that is protect the brand, protect the franchisee.

[Brian]

And I was kind of getting at that. When you're talking about the significance of taking care of the franchisee, did they. Did they let that get kind of away from them, taking care of them?

[Alex Camp]

I think there was some. And I don't want to bad mouth anybody, but there were some key decisions that were made either early on or mid midterm. But that kind of drove it away from protect the brand, protect the franchisee to an aspect.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Alex Camp]

Maybe got lost. Maybe somewhere in the minutia it was lost. I'm not sure. But I. Again, not badmouthing because it's a great company.

[Brian]

Yeah. And the whole point of this is to learn from past experiences. Right. And my goal is never to speak badly about anyone. If you're in this business, if you're trying to do it, like, hats off to you, best of luck. But how do we learn from the past? So, like, if you could learn one thing from that, what would it be?

[Alex Camp]

That it is protect the brand, Protect the franchisee. So whatever we need to do to make sure that the franchisees are profitable, that they. That they're heard and that they're in a growing structure is. I mean, that ultimately flows back down.

[Brian]

And I know it's hard talking about this stuff because you don't want to, like, sound disrespectful, but is there one thing that got away from fuzzies that where they've like, what's the one decision that happened where they weren't able to protect the franchisee or the brand?

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, not. I'm not going to say any of that. I'm going to pass on that. Yeah. Those weren't decisions that I made. Right, right, right. And yeah, that's. It's. Again, it's a great company, it's a

[Brian]

great brand, and I respect your decision.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Brian]

But I gotta try, man.

[Alex Camp]

You gotta push. I get it.

[Brian]

I have not forgotten about you, Tyler. Thank you for your patience. We're deep into your backstory now, so. Same thing, man. Like, where does it make sense to start sharing your story?

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah, I think you know my story in the restaurant business. Started like many others in college. Right. You know, went to school and needed to make a little bit of money. And that was my first introduction into serving waiting tables. And went to a big. They went to the University of South Carolina, so went to a big college town and worked in a sports bar and. And absolutely fell in love with the industry at that moment. But, you know, then it went on hiatus. Graduated with an advertising degree, moved to New York City, did two years there working for a media company, and then eventually moved back to Atlanta, where I'm from. And that's kind of where I got back into the. Into the industry.

[Brian]

And when was that help me? Because my, My brain works like a timeline for some reason, is how my brain works.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yes. So you Know, I moved to New York in 2012. So I was there 2012 to 2014.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Kyler Esposito]

And then I got in, back into franchising in 2015. So, you know, I never wanted to get back into the restaurant business. I never wanted to be a franchisee.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Kyler Esposito]

I ended up working for my father. My father was a serial entrepreneur. My father had a media company. I worked for him. And then my father got sick, and he got cancer and very young, and. Yep. And, you know, six years after he got it, he passed. And so when he passed, you know, he created a legacy that he left. Right. And it was a legacy, entrepreneurship. It was a legacy of, you know, if you want to go accomplish something, go do it. And I had a decision to make. I was either, hey, I can go and be safe and just keep working in the corporate world and stay in my cubicle and, you know, do that side of the business, or I can go try and be an entrepreneur and just. Always had the itch, especially living in New York City and all the great restaurants and everything and all the. The excitement around that side of hospitality. I was like, I just want to get back into the restaurant business. And I knew I didn't understand the business of restaurants, and so I got into franchising.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Kyler Esposito]

And there was a brand that was local to Atlanta, Tropical Smoothie Cafe. And it was, you know, very appealing to me. And So I, in 2015, signed my first franchise agreement, decided to, you know, take a leap of faith and bet on myself and. And really get into this business again on the franchising side. So.

[Brian]

So no. So you worked in a sports bar, and then you worked in the family business, media company, and then you bought into a franchise in post 2014?

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah, I bought in the franchise in 2015. 15. So right after. Yep.

[Jason]

So why Atlanta?

[Brian]

What was pointing to Atlanta?

[Kyler Esposito]

That's where I'm from.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Kyler Esposito]

So I spent 25 years there. Yep. That's where I. I moved back to after New York City. So, you know, my father passed in 2014, and I signed my first franchise in 2015.

[Brian]

How'd you get the money to buy into a franchisee?

[Kyler Esposito]

My father passed in 2014. And. And there was, you know, it was. It was be safe with that.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Kyler Esposito]

Or it was bet on yourself.

[Brian]

There's sometimes a negative, a weird error with, like, having privilege, you know, and, like, I don't think there should be, like, it's like, okay, did you get that money and go burn it on hookers and Coke, or did you invest it into your future and like, it's like, what do you do with that privilege?

[Kyler Esposito]

Correct.

[Brian]

You know, and you did something with that privilege. And with that privilege, you're creating opportunity. You get to be a mentor. You get to do these things. Like, what are you doing with your privilege? It's not bad to have privilege. Don't squander.

[Kyler Esposito]

No, of course. It's just, you know, it's. It's a vulnerable topic. Right. Yeah. And it's one of those where it's, you know, as soon. As soon as something like that happens, there's always, you know, how much was left. What is it?

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Kyler Esposito]

Not retiring here.

[Brian]

How do you become an entrepreneur? Like, you need to raise the money. That's a big part of the story of getting started.

[Alex Camp]

Right.

[Brian]

So it's fun to kind of get into that one.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah, of course.

[Brian]

So what was it like? Well, let me ask this. Why Tropical smoothies?

[Alex Camp]

Smoothie.

[Brian]

What was it about that brand?

[Kyler Esposito]

They were local. They were in a good growth pattern. When I got in, there were 630 units. Their corporate headquarters was 15 minutes from my house. The territory that was available was surrounding the corporate headquarters. So I knew I had the support structure. So I knew I had the support structure right there because I knew what I. I knew I didn't know what I didn't know.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Kyler Esposito]

And I knew I had the personality and the love and the drive to get into being an entrepreneur, but I had no idea how to run the business. Right. So I wasn't going to go open up a, you know, independent bar or restaurant just because I. I would have burned through everything.

[Brian]

I think this is one of the best use cases of entering into a franchise agreement is to learn the business because you're being handed the systems and you are literally. You don't. All that guesswork is taken out of it. Somebody's done that for you. You still have to learn a lot, but, like, at least you're understanding. Like. Like the operation side is being handed to you in terms of, like, step by step. Here's. Here's how to do it correct. And, like, you can take all those lessons and apply it to something else later on.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah. And that was it. It was. I knew that I could do the people part. I've always been able to do the relationships and the people and the mentoring and the coaching, the leading by example and all those things. It was, what is. How do I buy equipment? Yeah, right. What is a recipe? Right. How do I make this consistent? How do I. And so franchising was definitely the route for me. Knowing ultimately I wanted to just learn everything about the industry, but I had to start somewhere.

[Brian]

Right.

[Kyler Esposito]

And it was smoothies and flatbreads at Tropical. So. Yeah.

[Brian]

So 2015, to how long did you have this franchise?

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah, so I, I signed a two store deal, opened up two units, then signed another three store deal because I was hooked. A year and a half later, opened up three more units and then that at that point I was, okay, I want to grow, I want to go.

[Brian]

So two, three, three. So two, three.

[Kyler Esposito]

Just five.

[Brian]

Okay, got it.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yep.

[Brian]

What was it that hooked you?

[Kyler Esposito]

Just the interaction. The thing about the restaurant business that always drives me is you get an immediate, immediate reaction to what you're selling.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Kyler Esposito]

Right. For better or worse, you know, right away whether or not somebody enjoys the product you're pushing. And at Tropical they had a, they still have, they have a great product and they have great systems and great support. And it was a business to me as I started learning about the business. It was a business that I could replicate quickly and something that I knew that I could just do over and over again as long as I had the people piece down.

[Brian]

Yeah. As a franchisee, what were your greatest strengths? The people side?

[Kyler Esposito]

The people side. I had no issue getting out into the community. I know. Issue building a bench. I know. Issue investing in people. I think that's one of the biggest lessons I learned and one of the things I see, you know, throughout my entire career in franchising and today is if you can invest in the people on the front end and you can build the bench and you can get buy in on your team, that it sets you up for the growth in the future. Yeah, right. And you're not having to just restart, you're not having to turn over. And that's the biggest headache, I think on the people is if they're constantly leaving and you're constantly training and hiring, you're just spinning wheels.

[Brian]

Know that I'm resisting to ask you more questions because I feel like that idea of, of building a bench, I want to get into that, but I'm going to wait until how you're doing that today. Sure, I think that's going to come up. Of course. So 2015 to when did you sell your franchise locations? Are you still own them today?

[Kyler Esposito]

So no. So I had got up to five units at that point. I needed to bring in a partner to grow.

[Brian]

Okay, what year is this?

[Kyler Esposito]

2019.

[Brian]

Okay, so not that long ago.

[Kyler Esposito]

No. Okay, so end of 2018, 2019. The goal was initially to grow with Tropical Smith So, you know, I, I brought in as a franchisee. As a franchisee. So I brought in a business partner. You know, I wanted to go from 5 units to 25 units, brought in a business partner. And this is where I learned probably my most valuable lesson in being a franchisee and business in general. I gave up control of my entire business in order to bring in the money. And the deal fell flat to grow a tropical smoothie. So then we were on the, on the path to looking for a new franchise partner. And that's how we landed on Nukes Eatery. So Nukes, they had three units for sale here in Dallas and they had a large territory that we could buy for a franchise agreement. And at that point, we decided to make the move on that, buy the units here in Dallas. And then we signed an 18 store deal for the state of Oklahoma and local in the Dallas market. And that's when I sold. Part of that was contingent on me selling my franchises in Atlanta.

[Brian]

Okay, what was it about Nukes?

[Kyler Esposito]

Opportunity.

[Brian]

Yeah. What appealed to you? What was it? What was the opportunity?

[Kyler Esposito]

And again, we'll get into lessons learned.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Kyler Esposito]

You know, the product is phenomenal.

[Brian]

I've never heard of Nukes, so help me.

[Kyler Esposito]

So do you know McAllister's Deli? Yeah, same founder. Okay, so Chris Newcomb and his father founded McAllister's Deli. As soon as they sold that off, Chris Newcombe started Nukes.

[Brian]

Got it.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yep. So they're right now about 120 units.

[Brian]

Okay, where's that centrally located?

[Kyler Esposito]

Jackson, Mississippi, is where they're based out of. And then have a Dallas office as well.

[Brian]

Got it, Got it. So you saw this great opportunity. It pulled you in. That was 2019. 19, just before the pandemic. So that obviously, I'm assuming that kind of threw a wrench in your plans.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yep. So we bought those three units. I moved here in May of 2019. You know, those three units needed a little help on the operations side. And, and that's where we got into fixing those up. And then, you know, we started working through the development. Deal. Deal Pandemic hits in March of 2020. So we paused all development at that point and, you know, sold the entire thing in 2021. But during that time and with Nukes,

[Brian]

you know, we sold the entire.

[Kyler Esposito]

We sold, we sold the development agreement and the stores in 2021. We never opened up a store.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Kyler Esposito]

Because of, because of the pandemic. And that's where I get into, you know, losing control of your operation and losing control of your business. I, I, I didn't have any, any say in what we were going to do with the business at that point.

[Brian]

Yeah. As a franchisee.

[Kyler Esposito]

As a franchisee, because my partners controlled the entity.

[Brian]

And who are your partners again?

[Kyler Esposito]

They're people I knew from Atlanta.

[Brian]

Okay. So. But in, in context of Lanes, like you, you were the operator or they were the opera.

[Kyler Esposito]

I was the operating partner.

[Brian]

Okay. And they were, their, their partnership was financial investment.

[Kyler Esposito]

Correct.

[Brian]

Got it. Cool. Anything. Think again. I would pull back layers, but I want to make sure we get to where we are today and how you guys play off your roles, play off of each other. Anything from your story that you want to, like, drop on us in terms of points of evolution, growth, lessons learned? What, like how you carved out a niche for yourself with being the, the, where the rubber meets the, the pavement in terms of, you know, between the franchise and the franchisor?

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah. I think Nukes was my biggest lesson learned. So, you know, McAllister Stelli was an established brand. They did great. Chris Newcomb sold it off. He always wanted a scratch kitchen, you know, open kitchen concept, you know, to, to franchise out. And that's how we developed Nukes. And it's real sexy and real fun when you walk in. It's a real bear to operate.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Kyler Esposito]

And that's. Nukes is where I actually learned the business of how to run a restaurant because of the labor and the prep and the cost of goods and fresh ingredients and all of that stuff. And then it's also where I learned that if the franchisor doesn't have your best interest in mind, then you are going to fail.

[Brian]

Right.

[Kyler Esposito]

And that concept was very, very locked in on their 20 corporate stores and had no issue implementing initiatives that were great for those stores that had a great AUV and did three, three and a half million, but they did not consider franchisees in any of those and any of those initiatives. And it really, really, really hurt those people and it stunted their growth.

[Brian]

Yeah, you know, I, what I'm about to share, I don't mean any disrespect from it, but, like, what I've learned when I, So when I first started this podcast, my vision, my dream was to go to work for independent restaurant owners and to give them the resources, give them the knowledge that they normally can't go out and get on their own because they don't have access to these big corporations. It's like they like, how do we bridge the gap? How do we build up more independent, how to create more owners in the world and fewer like 200, 300, 1000 plus unit operators. How do we spread out the wealth? Right. That was kind of my idea. As I learned, I realized that, okay, well, franchises and corporations aren't necessarily evil. You know, there's a lot of good people in all parts of the world. And I've started to open myself up to this more and more, but I am still trying to figure out, like, what is that sweet spot? And I don't have the answer.

[Kyler Esposito]

Sure.

[Brian]

What is that? Balance? Balance. Like, what is it? Like, where is this the sweet spot for scale for, you know, managing relationships? I, I do think that it's with the issue isn't so much the business entity as much as the, the desire to scale fast and the transactional relationships and the, the, you lose a little bit of that, that emotional human side that is just so focused on big, big, big first market, blue ocean effect. Let's go, go, go, go. Scale fast like that, we like, we become transactional, you know. So how, and I think what LANES stands for Protect the brand, protect the franchisee. You've, you've baked it into your culture to really protect that relationship. So I hope today to learn because you're at a really interesting time right now.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yes.

[Brian]

24 to 41 locations in a year about to go, you know, add another 40 or 20, whatever, or 40 in the next year.

[Kyler Esposito]

40.

[Brian]

So you doubled once, you're going to double again.

[Alex Camp]

Right.

[Brian]

I hope the hell you guys figure out the whole like human side of things, you know, like that's, that's where the, the magic is. So I guess what I want to get into now is at this point in your story, you guys are, you know, within a year of coming together under this roof of Lanes. With that, all that context I just dumped on you, like what's going through your minds?

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah, I think that's, you know, everything you just said is exactly why we're sitting here right now. It's, you know, all the lessons learned, especially from me on the franchisee side of the business and me being a franchisee is one of the things that I love about this job now on the support center side is I've been able to be in the trenches with these guys and I've been shoulder to shoulder with them at multiple brands and I understand the mindset of being a franchisee and I feel like all of my focus is on the relationship and all my focus is on trust.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Kyler Esposito]

Because as soon as a franchisees lose trust with us, everything can go to shit.

[Brian]

Yeah. Alex, you came to Lanes first.

[Alex Camp]

Yes.

[Brian]

What was it about Lanes, this opportunity that pulled you in?

[Alex Camp]

Oh. So Samir originally had reached out to me and said, hey, we've got an opportunity here at Lanes. And I didn't know anything about Lanes. You know, we had seen it as we drove down the tollway back in the past. And Samir will tell you that same story. As we were carpooling to Fuzzies, we saw like, what the hell is that? Right? And we're like, ah, that'll never make it. And then here we are. Yeah, right. So I met with him and I was like, you know, I think the timing's right. Let's have a conversation. So he told me more about what the brand is and where the brand's going. Obviously did my, you know, my comp analysis on, like, brands and, you know, started to, you know, taste what brand, what Lanes is. But I'll tell you what really sold me is when I sat in a similar room with Garrett and he really started to talk about Lanes and the passion that was coming from him and just, just the way that he was. He's so invested in making this work, and he's so invested in our franchisees to also make this work that I was like, okay, this is a no brainer. This, this thing's going places because we have the right leadership in place.

[Brian]

How did you know he was invested?

[Alex Camp]

Oh, how do you not know he's invested? That you did the podcast and for people that haven't seen it, go back and watch it. But you can just, you know that when you talk to Garrett Reed, that he's all in. He's 100% in on this brand. He will not let it fail. And he puts franchisees first and he puts, you know, and he wants to build a solid foundation and a solid core of people like us to help make that come to fruition.

[Brian]

So when you came on board, what was your title?

[Alex Camp]

When I came on board, my. I was senior director of operations. So I was running operations on the. The corporate side and then also the franchisee side. So I was part of that initial foundation to be able to run our ops, improve our OPS at the home base so that we can show franchisees, you know, this is at least how it can be done or, you know, go from there, and then also assist with franchisees in the growth and development path that they, that they need, that they're on. Right. So a big part of just getting those 21 units open last year.

[Brian]

So when you say growth and development, path. Is it like helping them? Like, what are your, your goals within this organization as a franchisee? Are you trying to open 2 units, 4 units, 5 units, 10 units, and then trying to help them reverse engineer how to achieve that? Like, what does that look like?

[Alex Camp]

Yeah. So a lot of our franchisees were first timers. So we have, we have some old schoolers that were here from day one that have multiple units when I came on board. But then also all through last year, we had a lot of people that. This was our first restaurant to open up in Lane. So, yeah, that's a big discovery point.

[Kyler Esposito]

Point.

[Alex Camp]

Right. So they're bought in, they've. They've put down their money. They are a huge asset to us and the brand. So their success is our success. And how do we, how do we, as a team, show them the roadmap? Right, okay. What do we do to get you where you need to go?

[Brian]

Got it. Alex. Sorry, my back and forth here. Tyler, thank you very much. So, same question. Like, what, what was it when this, this opportunity came to you? What was it that. That pulls you in?

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah, it's going to be a very similar answer. So I met Garrett and Samir and Matt and Eric five years ago. So I was introduced to them, you know, after I got out of franchising, heard about Lanes and, And you know, that's when the conversation started and there was no opportunities, you know, to, to jump on board back then, but they're all just great guys. And then we've just kept in touch over the years and then ultimately, you know, the end of last year when the opportunity came available to jump on board, just you come into this office and you just feel the energy.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Kyler Esposito]

And you know that there is an opportunity. And that's what this is. This is an opportunity to be on this team and it's just something that you can't pass up, to jump on board and then be a part of something special. And I've always wanted to get, get on this side and be there for the franchisee. Support.

[Brian]

Got it. So where were you after nukes? Were you like, kind of like in a weird tainted place that this didn't work out for you the way you wanted it to? Were you kind of like jaded about the world of.

[Kyler Esposito]

I was jaded about franchising. Yeah. Had an amazing experience. Tropical had a decent experience with nukes. Pandemic in the restaurant business in general, you know, there's all sorts of experiences there. But I jumped on board with an independent operator here, local in Allen, Texas. And you know, that operator had coffee Concepts and then full service restaurant, and then we were also a brew pub. So, you know, we distributed beer, distributed coffee, and then we had retail business, business as well. So I was with them for four and a half years.

[Brian]

Four and a half years. And you were kind of jaded, like you said about the world of franchising. When did that start to shift again for you?

[Kyler Esposito]

About two years into the job I took with Armor, we started talking about franchising those coffee shops.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Kyler Esposito]

And, you know, all the lessons I had learned, I felt like I could be somebody who could support potential franchisees, you know, that wanted to come on board and franchise that brand.

[Brian]

And specifically, what is it about Link that has you, like, really excited that you're willing to leave that opportunity?

[Kyler Esposito]

I think two things. One, the processes that are in place on the operations side make it very straightforward to run a unit for this brand.

[Brian]

So you're talking about, like, the simplicity of.

[Kyler Esposito]

The simplicity of the operation is very straightforward. And I think that's step one. When you're a franchisee. Is. Is okay, can I do this? Can I hire people to do this, this? And then financially, does it makes. Does the return make sense to do this?

[Brian]

Yeah. The model has been proven multiple times from very successful operators. And you're looking at, you know, Chipotle, not Chipotle, Chick Fil A. And you got raising canes, very similar. And you have all the fried hot chicken concepts out there that are killing it. So it's a proven model. Were you concerned about it being a little behind the, like the, the. The fried chicken boom?

[Kyler Esposito]

Not necessarily. I think everybody's good, everybody starts somewhere. Right. And I think when you look at Lanes and where we are today, you know, we didn't really start franchising until 2021. So when you look at us now, where we are today, compared to some of those brands, where they were four years in, five years in, we're right there, or ahead of a lot of those brands when it comes to development.

[Brian]

What is about Lanes that makes that possible?

[Kyler Esposito]

You know, I think Garrett and Samir have made it very approachable to come in as a franchisee, and everything is out in the open. There is no, you know, there's no smoke and mirrors here. So the relationships, here's who we are, right? Here's the process, here's what it costs, and, and then meeting the team, you know, that you have a team and a full support center that we're very hands on when it comes to franchisors. We touch every single point. We're in communication weekly and I think think that's what sets us apart is when you talk to a lot of these franchisees are now a part of our brand new or with other brands, it's like, hey guys, sometimes you over communicate, sometimes you over touch. Right. And we want that. I want there to be a relationship where it's not just I'm calling you when I need something or you call me when you need something.

[Brian]

Yeah. I think the other thing that's unique about lanes too is that. Well, yes, it's as we know it today, circa 2016, 17, 18 was when they were developing the brand, they purchased it. However, it's like the chicken finger OG like that sign says behind you since 1994. Oh, yeah. So there's that legacy tied to the brand where it might not be the first the market to scale, but it's the first that we know of arguably before, you know, there's a whole story

[Kyler Esposito]

between canes and lanes originators, not imitators.

[Brian]

So I think, think having that, that brand of legacy of the OG is powerful.

[Alex Camp]

100. I agree with that because we had a cult following, you know, with Texas A and M and all that. But as they started to scale and to really bring this to life. Yeah. That, that OG effect carries weight.

[Brian]

Right.

[Alex Camp]

The simplicity of our model carries weight. And then the quality that we have have. We outpace on quality.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

So quality, hospitality, it's just, it's a win, win, win, win.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

When you start to put all the cards in the deck.

[Brian]

Cool. Yeah. So from an operations side where your job is really, again, looking at all the data and trying to optimize for efficiency, scalability, looking at these, these giants that had come before or these, these case studies. Right. Of. Okay, well, this, these like, did you study those other brands and say, well, this is maybe worse than they might have not. They could have done better and we're gonna make sure we do better at these certain things. Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

So we're always gonna constantly look at everything. So we don't want to change a lot. Right. We don't want to change fast, but we always want to keep. Always look at the details and the data. Right. So these bigger brands that have been doing it for a long time, yeah. They've. They've streamlined, they've got some efficiencies in place. They've got, you know, better purchasing power for equipment that, you know, otherwise would cost our franchisees an arm and leg.

[Brian]

Right.

[Alex Camp]

So we may not be able to be right where they are with them right now. But we're always going to look at that. But honestly, our model works to Kyler's point. Like, our model works as it is today. Right. We can scale it. If it didn't change at all, we could scale this thousand units in IT without any changes.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

So but we're always going to be looking at that and yeah. And part of my job now as it is is really working with, okay, how do I protect the franchisee from an IT perspective. Right. I don't want to throw a bunch of tech costs. We don't want to, you know, go all heavy AI or heavy robotics or do all that because that ultimately affects the franchisees. If it's not broken, don't fix it. Right. And then we start to look at, you know, operations or marketing or procurement or even design and construction, real estate. The when we start to look at the designs of the buildings and working on second gen versus prototypes, it's just we always keep the franchisees first in mind and then, yeah, we're going to make small tweaks here and there, there as we scale. But you know, again, what we do today works. Yeah.

[Jason]

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[Brian]

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[Brian]

guess what I'm curious about in through the lens of a VP of Culture Operations and a VP Operation Services. Like what I guess has been the biggest challenge for you and your role and I guess how that plays into the bigger picture. Because it's not every day I get to what's fun about what's happening right now. Like I had the CEO on the show, I had the COO on the show. Now I'm talking to the VP of Culture Operations Operations and the VP of Operation Services. Later today I'm talking to the CDO Chief Development Officer and the VP of Marketing. So like this is fun where I'm get to like really get into the nooks and cranings of lanes and figuring out like how you guys work, I guess. Who wants to go first in terms of when you came? Since I'm just going chronologically, you're in 2024. What have been your biggest contributions, the biggest struggles? Trying to figure out like what can you share with our listeners today from your unique lane of like lessons learned ways to do things better. I don't even know what questions to ask you right now, so just start talking about.

[Alex Camp]

That's a lot of gray zone stuff right there I guess.

[Brian]

What do you want to talk about? How do you feel like from your perspective of what you do? A vp.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Of Operations or sorry Operations Services. Like where can we learn the most from you in your two years here?

[Alex Camp]

So Operation Services again, I think I started off with different brands, look at that position differently. Right. So they'll it might just be looking at, you know, the how much money can we save off of different programs or you know, efficiencies. But to me again I think it's, it's the cohesiveness between all different departments. Right. So for me, what we're looking to do with this position as we go through this year is one and I'm not going to I hope I don't steal his thunder on Culture. But as we bring on people into this organization and we make sure we bring it on the right people to continue to strengthen the brand from within at the corporate office and keep that because we don't want to lose that as we grow. We don't want to be overly corporate. We don't want to be overly siloed. We want to be able to have open dialogue and context between all departments. And it's fluid and it flows and we're having fun with it because I think that's where a lot of brands lose touch as they get too big, they scale too fast, and they have, you know, 500 plus employees is. It's really hard to keep that smaller brand feel and culture alive. Right. And I, I don't think, I don't want to lose that. I know that the leadership team doesn't want to lose that. And so as we onboard new people to this brand, we want to make sure that that's. That is heavily instilled in them and not only our employees at the store level.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

So I hope I didn't steal your thunder on any of that.

[Brian]

So you're like the human side of that. Right. But you're like the technology side of making sure that works. Like the systems around that. So what, what are the systems you're looking to implement or what? Like, I guess in relative to it's hard to system culture. Like, are you focusing on training systems? Culture systems, HR systems. Like, is that where your focus is or is that more your focus?

[Alex Camp]

It's hard to put your finger on op services. Yeah, right. Because I do touch the training team. So I work heavily with the training team to make sure that, okay, when we go into new units, we're doing exactly what we need to do and we're setting up for success, for the ops team to come in after the fact. Right. There's a handoff there between a new store opening. So go from construction, they'll do a punch list, they'll come through. I'll go in, I'll do a punch list and go through, make sure we're 100% set up and ready.

[Brian]

So what does your punch list look like?

[Alex Camp]

Oh, it goes through everything. It makes sure we have all of our marketing, all of our tech packages, all of our prices match every, you know, we have all of our equipment in place. It all works like, is it a fully functioning lanes to 100%.

[Brian]

What part do you get involved in with determining what technology to use?

[Alex Camp]

Well, I can. Yeah, any part.

[Brian]

So is. Is Samir more the like executive level, looking out trends and then trying to be ahead of it, and you're more about implementing or do you look out to influence what you adopt?

[Alex Camp]

He trusts. He trusts my input on where we need to go. He has a vision. They all have a vision on where we need to go. And they'll have input on that.

[Kyler Esposito]

That.

[Alex Camp]

But I need to make sure that my team and I make a decision on what our tech technology package should be.

[Brian]

Can you share what your tech stack is today and why you landed on on that for a QSR chicken concept?

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, it's honestly not too heavy. I mean so we use HME for drive thru. I think most people do.

[Brian]

What is hme?

[Alex Camp]

HME is just going to be your drive through technology. From the speaker post to the mics that you use. They're one of the biggest players out there. There's only like a handful of players that do it. So that's our, that's our drive through test. We currently partner with Revel as our pos. We've had Revel since the day that I got here. It's not broken. We're not changing it. I mean we're always going to keep looking to innovate and make changes. But again, like I stated before, we want to make sure that we make the right decision for our franchisees. So I'm not going to burden them with a. We just want to switch to Switch and oh, it's going to cost you $500.

[Brian]

Rebels, a local company too, right?

[Alex Camp]

Yeah. I don't know where their headquarters are.

[Brian]

Yeah, I know they were, they were a real big player. Like, like, you know, I want to say like around the time I was starting 2014, 15, like I. They were. Their name was a lot more known. I think a great product. I think they. The world of marketing and toast has kind of swelled the industry. Why did you choose to stay with Rebel? What is it about Revel that you like? It's.

[Alex Camp]

It's easy but Armenia makes it easy.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

So it doesn't take much to, to really do.

[Brian]

You don't need a robust.

[Alex Camp]

I don't need robust systems.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

Are we looking at business analytics tools going into this year? Yes, that's on my radar. So I'll be starting to dive into

[Brian]

specifically what kind of business analytics tools.

[Alex Camp]

Oh one, I need to up our data warehouse. So we need a data lake. We need all that information that flows from the pos, hme, other partnerships with loyalty, so forth and so on. It all needs to go into a centralized location where we can then query that out.

[Brian]

What has your attention right now in terms of options?

[Alex Camp]

I don't know. Yeah, honestly, I've got a few names on the board. I'm going to go attend some conferences this year, talk to some other experts in the field, really start to dive into what options we have.

[Brian]

Right. And you're not necessarily building for today, you're building for tomorrow.

[Alex Camp]

Correct.

[Brian]

So where are you headed? You're headed to 80 locations in the next year.

[Alex Camp]

Right.

[Brian]

So what makes sense for that? Is that custom?

[Alex Camp]

I don't know if it's custom yet. I think there's something that can bridge the gap.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

But, yeah, in three years time. Time we're probably to build our own.

[Brian]

You're looking for, like, an enterprise solution tech stack that has its own general ledger tied to the POS. And does that include replacing the POS 2, or do you think.

[Alex Camp]

I don't think it has to.

[Brian]

Yeah. It's probably an integration there. Are you looking at Restaurant365?

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, we already partnered with 365 for back office.

[Brian]

So what's that? Not provide you. Because that's what you're getting data.

[Jason]

Right.

[Alex Camp]

So you get data, but you don't get data from all sources. So you get POS data, but you don't get data from every source because there's not an open API for everything.

[Brian]

So what sources do you want the data from?

[Alex Camp]

Well, I don't get into that because then that would leak what sources we might be getting into.

[Brian]

Right.

[Alex Camp]

But there are other sources that could go into a data pool. So we can say, okay, hey, I want to run a query on how something's performing not only in store, but exterior digitally. How's it affecting market flow, guest perception? There's all sorts of stuff you can start to look at when it comes to analytics that drives operations in the right direction.

[Brian]

Got. Got it. Pivot. So same kind of concept, same kind of question. Kyler, what are you doing? Like what. What has. Like that first. I mean, you've only been here four months now.

[Kyler Esposito]

Two months.

[Alex Camp]

Two months.

[Brian]

So you're. You're just kind of getting into it right now.

[Alex Camp]

Right.

[Brian]

So I guess what has the impression been in terms of landing here with your intention to be the middleman between franchisee and franchisor? I guess. What's it been like so far?

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah, I think you asked a good question a few minutes back. It was, what's the one thing you've learned and what's the most difficult thing that you've had to adjust to? And for me, it's my entire career, I've been the operator. I've been able to make all the decisions, and I've been able to impact the business directly. This role is you're influencing or consulting or doing whatever you're trying to do with the operators. Right. And that's been the biggest learning curve for me mentally has been, hey, you have to figure out a new way to create a relationship, to get a franchisee to trust you in order to have an impact on them. Right. And it's got to be natural. It can't be some forced, you know, relationship. And that has been. First two months of this job has been to just flip the switch on how I think about operations from, hey, you can't just go, do you have to. You, you have to be able to impact in other ways. And that is through relationships, through culture. And that's, that's been the biggest, you know, adjustment slash, what I'm working on the most.

[Brian]

Yeah, I'm gonna read a quote and I'm dyslexic, so this could be interesting. With extensive experience as a multi unit franchisee, Esposito is actually, or sorry, accurately aware of the value of the strong franchise support structure. In his new role, he will prioritize culture throughout the lanes franchise system while serving as a, a voice for franchisees to ensure Lane's unique culture remains the foundation of its operational excellence as it scales. That is from Garrett Reed. So as I'm, I'm, I'm reading that, I mean, that's what you're doing right now. I guess what stands out to you

[Kyler Esposito]

in that quote, it's the culture piece. And culture to me is people. And people are the franchisees, it's the support center, it's the employees that work under every Lane's roof. Right. Whether whether we own the stores or not. And that you have to build the culture through the relationships, through the energy, through the processes, through trust. And that is 100%, you know, what I'm focusing on. And that doesn't happen overnight. Right. I can't. I meet you today and, you know, you might think I'm a decent dude, but until we get to know each other, you're not going to have the relationship with me. And anything I say to you, you're going to question just naturally. Right. And so for, for me, it's that culture piece is bringing everything I've learned through working through multiple brands, through owning multiple units, through financing it myself, through bringing on partners, you know, all the different things that I've been able to do over the last 10 years and having those impacts on, on me as an operator help, you know, leverage the conversations that I have with the franchisees and know what they're going through when they have a conversation about a pain point, point or bottleneck. Yeah, I see it I, I know, like I can understand it and then I can go to the team and say, hey, this is real. Like this isn't something that we should just brush off. Like this is going to be a real bottleneck moving forward.

[Brian]

How do we get ahead of it before we scale this into 40 more units?

[Kyler Esposito]

Yes. Is it 80 this year and is it 100 and you know, is it 150, 160 next year? Right. At that point we have to get ahead of these and have, have everything in place to ensure success from day one. And like Alex said, the handover to the operations team really occurs when the store opens. Right. Right before. Days before the store opens. And that's when our team gets involved. And you know, if it's a first time franchisee, we'll get to know you ahead of that point. So you, you know who's going to be there with you every step of the way once you open. And if it's an existing franchisee, we already have the right people in place that, you know, once the stores open, you have the right structure and support and foundation from the franchisor for, for long term success in that unit.

[Brian]

Yeah. Here's a quote from you from that same article that I pulled. The Garrett quote. Esposito said. I'm saying your name correctly. Right?

[Kyler Esposito]

Esposito.

[Brian]

Esposito. Okay. Is that, that's what I said.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah. You're good. Yeah.

[Brian]

Is that not right?

[Kyler Esposito]

No, that's right.

[Brian]

Okay. Yeah. Esposito said, just glad you got Kyler.

[Kyler Esposito]

Right.

[Brian]

His primary focus will be supporting multi unit franchisees and building their own encouragement internal benches. And you mentioned this earlier, I want to get into that, helping them develop teams to support long term success. So I'm curious, like what is the, the strategy for helping franchisees scale, Is it in focusing on their bench and what advice, because you said this is something that you've really excelled at in your career is helping build your own branch back when you have the Tropical smoothie franchise. So what advice can you give my listeners on how to build that bench and how to bring people in? Because that's hard today.

[Kyler Esposito]

It's really hard. And I think the hardest thing to do is, is as a restaurant operator is to assess where you actually are at the store level. Right. And I think you know what the main focus on us in Q1 has been. Let us, let us solidify store level leadership. And I'm a firm believer that if there's a store that you believe is underperforming 90% of the time it goes back to store level leadership. But the hardest thing to do when you're growing as a franchisee is assess your people on a routine basis and are they the right people for the job? And when we say, hey, we're going to go build a bench, it's all right. You have all the right managers in place. We know you're opening up three stores this year. What is your plan? You know, how do we invest in the next round of people? How do we get them trained so that it's just routine to get into the next store opening? And on top of that, it's, you know, you have to invest in training. Right. And that's also people and it's, how do we certify, how do we leverage Alex's team to come in and certify trainers at your store level so that you can now start training your teams when you go into openings so you're not missing, you know, dropping the ball on anything. And what I, what I always learned was if I invest time and I invest energy and I invest money into store level operators that understand the business, they will then invest their own time and energy and, you know, the company's money into training the next layer of, of, of leaders.

[Brian]

When you say store level operators, are you talking about franchisees or talking about the managers?

[Kyler Esposito]

Talk about general managers. Right. And then, you know, one of the other big things is, you know, when you go to have operators above store locations, district managers, area directors, whatever you want the title to be, it's, there's different style operators. Right. You talk to how many thousands of people, it's, you need to find the right person for what you're trying to do and you need to know what key attributes to look at when it comes to an area manager and what you're trying to do. Because a lot of times what I have found and I've made this mistake in my own journey is, you know, I'm hiring firefighters. It's impossible to grow if you're just putting out fires. Right, right, right. It's, how do we get away from that? And how do we get to hiring coaches? How do we get to hiring influencers? How do we get to hiring people that are actually going to help your teams grow, not just in the business, but also personally? And that's, those are, like you said, that's so hard to find.

[Brian]

Yeah, you said a couple things that I want to lose. You said hiring the people that understand what we're trying to do. I'm paraphrasing.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah.

[Brian]

What is it that leans. Is trying to do that. Get that like what is it that they're.

[Jason]

That they have to get?

[Brian]

What. What is the.

[Kyler Esposito]

That. Yeah, I think, you know, when it comes to operators, I mean, look at the two of us. Obviously Alex has the relationship piece. My entire career is based on being able to relate, create relationships and work with people. Right. Alex has the. The data background that I don't necessarily have just because I've never gone that deep into that world. It's. Are you hiring, you know, if you're trying to grow from 2 units to 10 units, like, are you hiring somebody that understands how to build a team or are you hiring somebody that is trying to look at the. The numbers and look at, you know, P. Ls and operate off PNLs and it's probably not the right person for

[Brian]

you putting the right seat. The right person in the right seat.

[Kyler Esposito]

Correct. Yes.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Brian]

And every unit is a bus and they have to have the right people, but then they have to have to have that like vertical growth to move out of that seat and make room for the next person.

[Kyler Esposito]

Correct. And then the franchisee themselves also has to be able to step out of the weeds and understand the big picture.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Kyler Esposito]

And you know, you can't be, you know, day to day in this if you're in a growth pattern and I. And day to day in the weeds if you're in a growth pattern. And it's really just a balance on. Every franchisee is different, every personality is different.

[Brian]

Right.

[Kyler Esposito]

Every growth plan is different. And it's really just trying to figure out what. What they need from a support standpoint where we can provide the best piece of support from our end in order to help them grow without losing track of the store level operations and the profitability and all the other things that, you know, drive the business.

[Brian]

Yeah. I've always liked to have this like, I don't know if it's a saying or a mindset or just this, this belief that behind every great restaurant's a great person. You know, I think Garrett obviously inspired you guys. His vision, his energy, his passion for the Lanes brand in his desire to like create something so cool attracted you on to him.

[Alex Camp]

Right.

[Brian]

And every time we open a new unit or we get bigger, there. There has to be some way to. We can't let. Every time we open. This is what I used to believe that you're diluting that person's ability to inspire because there's more people between the original vision and energy in the actual. And like Person, front line, facing the guest. Right.

[Alex Camp]

Y.

[Brian]

So how do you bridge that source of inspiration, energy, vision, passion, founder, CEO? How do you create a. A path of least resistance to get that energy to the frontline people? And that's why I think people like the two of you are the most important hires he'll ever make. Because they. They either need to be at his level or higher in terms of the quality of individual, the passion, the discipline you need to hire up. Right. And because you need to make sure that bridge to the end user, whether that be the franchisee or the frontline employee, that you're carrying that culture through the operation. And that's what I see in you when I talk to you about what. What you're doing. And I guess, how do you keep that energy strong? How do you show up to either out energize Garrett or to match that energy, you know?

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah, there's a. That's a tough question, man. I just, I love what I do. And in a short amount of time here, I fell in love. Love with the brand. And when the people that work with you firmly believe that you want to be here and you want to come to work every day and you want to do what's best for everybody around you, you know, whether it's the team, the franchisee, the franchisees team, you can feed off that. And that's what I've learned just with people I've been around in the past and people I've surrounded myself with, is you have to bring that energy and that passion and it can't be. It can't be fabricated. It's got to be real and authentic. And I try and do that every single day. And you know, Garrett's a phenomenal leader. He brings that energy every single day. You never see him off. Right. And with. With the team that we have, it's just trying to pass that down and just trying to emphasize again and again and again, like you have to be authentic. You have to care. We talk about gaff around here all the time. Right. You know, give a and everybody. If you don't have it, you'll never survive here. If you don't truly care about this brand and you don't truly want to be here and you don't truly see the opportunity that's ahead of us, you're never going to survive.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Kyler Esposito]

And that's what, you know, day one, when I carrot half a decade ago, just bursting with energy and excitement. Yeah. And you know, in the last two months, it's still. That's Here.

[Brian]

What's the average per store employee like number? Like how many roster count?

[Kyler Esposito]

Like how many people?

[Brian]

Yeah. How many people does it take to run a lanes? Like four or five people on a shift?

[Alex Camp]

Yeah. You can get away with five people. Five people, five, six people depending on

[Brian]

volume and how many total people are typically employed?

[Alex Camp]

I would say probably 30.

[Brian]

30, yeah. I am fascinated with this number called Dunbar's number, if you guys ever heard of it. Yes, Robin Dunbar. Have you heard the book Social. The Social Brain?

[Alex Camp]

I haven't heard the book.

[Brian]

So it's a book that he wrote with two business minded people and they're, they're applying Dunbar's number to scale and where this applies to scale as. Because so you are.

[Alex Camp]

It's interesting.

[Brian]

What is your understanding of Dunbar's number?

[Alex Camp]

It's the amount of people that you can logically hold in your head as far as relationships. I think the numbers. 200 something.

[Brian]

It's 150. Yeah, yeah, 150. And it's a. It came by studying primate in wild. And there is a correlation between brain size and the number of relationships different primates can handle. So a chimpanzee is like 50 and humans is 150. And it's actually a series of numbers. It's 1.5515-5015-0500-1500, 5000. Those are like the, the hierarchy of the numbers and it's in social groups a 1.5 is you and your partner.

[Jason]

It's the average.

[Brian]

Right. Your mate. 5 is the average size of a family. 15 is like your like your like extended like close friends, like your like support group I think is what they call it. And then 50 is like a hunter gatherer band, you know like a camp is what you would. Where you'd see that and it's like also shows up in military the way they, they build those. 150 is where it becomes us versus them them beyond 150. Like you're not me, you're not us, you're another. So it's like I think that's, it's that magic number because you want to be able to keep things like really tight. So I'm curious now that you unders. I mean you both. This is the first time you've heard of this?

[Kyler Esposito]

I, I didn't. I've heard of it, but yeah, yeah.

[Brian]

So knowing that, I'm curious, you know, Alex, you were aware of this. How do you apply that knowledge into managing scale while actually knowing that this could be a governor on how to intentionally group People.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, until you brought it up, I hadn't even applied both concepts, you know, So, I mean, that's really interesting and something to take home and kind of think about.

[Brian]

I have the book in my trail. I don't have my camper with me. It's at the campsite.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, because that's interesting. It goes back to my point. As you get to 500 plus employees in an organization, how do you not become siloed and how do you keep that culture alive? I mean, it kind of ties into that.

[Brian]

Yeah, I think there's definitely correlations. But I think what's cool, if you look at your, Your per shift unit, like, of. Of employees, five. That's a magic number. You see five in all. Like, so usually in a, like a fine dining restaurant, like the. The line is five. Beyond five, you need a leader, but under five, it just. There's some kind of chemistry magic that happens there. There where everybody knows their job and it just. It just works. So if you had a 5, if 5 is your per unit at a time, like, you can, like, things tend to work really well there. It's also the number of a band that works really well. So it, like beyond five, like, you need like some kind of. What's the word? A director or something. Like, you, like, there's a special number. 5. 15 could be like the total amount of employees. Employees you have per location. And then I guess 50 would be. Once you have like a regional director, they probably can't manage more than 50 relationships. So you'd have to have a new, like, man, like regional manager. And then 150 would be like a director. Or there's direct report. But it's like. But now Garrett Reed doesn't need to manage all the employees, but there's those key players in between that are only responsible for 150 or 50 to keep the top. I don't know what's going through your mind is I'm sharing this. No, I didn't mean to talk that much.

[Alex Camp]

No. Yeah. I think you're spot on and I'm glad you brought it up because, I mean, it's an interesting concept when you start to apply both tactics to it. So, I mean, Garrett and Samir and the team, they travel around and they made it a mission to make sure that they touch base with every franchisee every so often. And that's like once a quarter they're touching base with franchisees. And not just, hey, you know, we know the data, we know what's going on. It's about Building the relationship. So that's. That I think is a key thing that we're doing or they're doing to make sure that we keep that culture that live with our franchisees and we don't lose touch with that.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

Right. So then how does that correlate into the. The office structure? We have, obviously our meetings, but then we have, once a month we get the whole team crammed in here. We're standing room only at that point. Right.

[Brian]

Whole team meaning all the franchisees?

[Alex Camp]

No, not the franchisees, but internal team, support, center team. Yeah.

[Brian]

And how many people is that?

[Kyler Esposito]

Oh, man, 28, plus a couple trainers.

[Alex Camp]

So, yeah, north of 30. Okay, so you got 30 people.

[Brian]

So you guys are in that awkward phase right now.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, it's a little. Yeah, because.

[Brian]

Well, then they say like when you're going from. So it's 5, 15, 50. So between 15 and 50, and then again between 50 and 150. The goal is to. To get to that next tier as fast as possible because there's just something weird that happens where, like, in between those perfect groups, like, things kind of fall apart. So you got to get to 50 as fast as possible and then slow down, build the house, and then rush to get to 150.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Like, it's like.

[Alex Camp]

But that, that goes back to earlier. Like, we're not going to let this get siloed. That's what we. We want to build a different franchise or organization. So we talk about this on every Friday in our. In our calls with Kyler and Natalie and Patrick about how do. How do we stay cohesive, how do we not become siloed? How. What messages are like, are we aligned? Are we not aligned? We can disagree, but we're going to leave the room in agreement. Right. And then how does that. How does that flow down to our teams?

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

And make sure that we don't navigate through that awkward point because it may not be as easy to snap your finger and say, hey, we need to get 20 more people in the building. Right, Right.

[Brian]

So you're at 28 people that are the executive team for lanes. Is that kind of what's going on?

[Alex Camp]

It's. Yeah, it's total center team.

[Brian]

Just support center team.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Brian]

And I mean, I know this is a. Probably not the easiest question, but like, what is. What encompass. What encompasses the support level team? What is that? So you, you know, you got CEO,

[Jason]

cooc,

[Brian]

do chief to back development officer. You have all the. The presidents and vice presidents, cfo. And then like, what, like, is it like the. Like what, what comes after that? I know we probably can't hit every.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah, they all have their teams, right? Like Eric, cdo, they have, you know, real estate team, construction team. Then you have Samir at COO. He's got us two. Plus, you know, you know, I've FBCs below me. Franchise business consultants. And Alex has, you know it.

[Brian]

So what are the franchise business? Are they between you, you? So the, the. The chain of command or the, the hierarchy. The flow of communication goes. Samir, you and business consultants.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yes.

[Brian]

And then they have their franchisees that they are the direct report to and you're in the middle.

[Kyler Esposito]

Well, so yes. So we have three FBCs. Each FBC is assigned franchisees based on various factors.

[Brian]

And then how many does franchisee does each one of those FBC. What called again?

[Kyler Esposito]

Sorry, Franchise Business Consultants. FBCs. Right now they're about, you know, four to six depending on size.

[Brian]

Hey, there's that, that number right there. 5.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yep, yep.

[Brian]

This is what I'm looking for.

[Kyler Esposito]

No, it's. You're right. And then you know myself as well, just so I don't sit in an office. It's. I also have franchisees that I work with directly as well.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Kyler Esposito]

So I'll act as an FPC for a couple of the franchisees and they

[Brian]

all are based out of this office. Your. Your franchise business or if they're not traveling.

[Kyler Esposito]

We have one that's been with Lane since 1998.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Okay.

[Kyler Esposito]

So she's based out of College Station.

[Brian]

Okay. Can you get back to that like that corporate office?

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah. So then Alex has his team which includes training in it. Natalie and I might be missing somebody. Natalie has her team which is going to be marketing with the training in it.

[Brian]

Like what's that department Makeup. How many people are in that department?

[Alex Camp]

So it is fairly small. We just have. Have we one person it as of today, but that's soon to grow. And then for training we've got my director of training. And then we have three people that are full time on the road trainers. And then we have, you know, a branch of employees that still work the install at the store that we can pull from.

[Brian]

Got it.

[Alex Camp]

So cool.

[Brian]

And then there's the marketing team. How big is the marketing team?

[Alex Camp]

Team of three, including Natalie. Including.

[Brian]

So we're getting close to that 20, 28 marker right now with all the names.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah. Then you have construction and in real estate and that's five. Five or six between them.

[Brian]

Yeah, got it. I wonder like, I mean I just, I'm Just fascinated by this number. Like, how does that apply? Like, what does getting to 50 look like? And then when you get to 50, is it time to like, recreate that same thing but like, in a different part of the country where you have like a different, like, I don't know.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, that's hard to say.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know if we'll ever need to recreate it, have multiple regional offices, but I'm not saying we wouldn't either because, yeah, it's gonna get, it's gonna get wild.

[Brian]

And this, a lot of all this is new to me in full transparency. I'm not used to talking to people that are specialists within a greater organization that's planning on growing by 100% year over year.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Brian]

So this is really interesting.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah. On the, on the FBC side, I think one of the things that we try and do. So, yes, the majority of them are based out of the Dallas office and are the only office, our, our Frisco office office. And I think, you know, the next one or two we hire will also be based out here. We have a belief that, yeah, it would be easy if, you know, we have a lot of stores in the East Coast. Hire somebody out in Virginia to be the FBC out there because you're saving on travel and this and that. But they're missing the culture piece, they're missing the water cooler conversations, they're missing the team meetings. They're missing all the things that really help us be lanes when it comes to the relationships and culture. And so we're actually in the perspective of kind of doing it a little bit different than other organizations where it's. While we still can. There will be a point where we cannot do that anymore. But while we still can, let's have as many people in the office as possible so that we are all on the same page. So it's not just teams meetings and emails and stuff getting lost.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Kyler Esposito]

In messaging.

[Brian]

Yeah. I mean, I, I, I'd love to have another conversation with you guys in the future after, if you do get a chance to pick up that book and if you do choose to apply it, you know, like, what does that look like? Because it's really, I think it could be part of the, the answer to helping companies scale while maintaining strong relationships. Because we know it's about, it's all about relationships and it's about keeping those relationships strong. And the more relationships you have, the more diluted they get, because you just can't, like, we can only handle so Many relationships. So how do you intelligently engineer that, that to keep people in like pods and silos where those stay strong, but the connection between those pods is also strong, right?

[Alex Camp]

Yeah. Like there's a layered effect, but then an overarching, you know, group. Yeah. Messages, you know, sprinkled in.

[Brian]

And they talk about this in the book Social Brain, that nature replicates itself all over the place like these patterns, right? And the same pattern with how like cultures grow should be replicated in one. What the spider. There's like a spider plant. And like when a spider print like, like as it grows, like it will like have like a bundle of like whatever the a plant does, and then there'll be like, like a vein that goes like the next bundle. And like it knows that once this bundle gets so big time to break off. You see it also with the Amish, where like Amish, they live in groups of like 140 to 160, 70. And when that group gets too big, they start a sister farm to keep it democratic. And they know that at that number you need to break it off. So I don't know, I could beat this to death. So training systems, that's the one thing that I want to make sure we get into. How are you leaning on technology to improve the training systems?

[Alex Camp]

I mean, so we have an LMS program, you know, so we utilize Scoops as our lms. Love that tool.

[Brian]

Why do you love that tool?

[Alex Camp]

Because it's easy to be able to dish out that information quick, fast. You can make changes on the fly. You could send out alerts. You could say, hey, everybody needs to be retrained on something that you know, or maybe it's just a refresher on how to do stuff. So love that. The operators can then go in and see what kind of efficiency their staff has. Are they completing things? You go into the world of LMS on that. So it to me, it completes everything that we need today as far as technology on that. Outside of that, I mean there's really not too much technology in training. It's really more about boots on the ground and what we do with our franchisees from the time that they come and visit us to get trained themselves or send their two operators for their new unit.

[Brian]

How long is that training program?

[Alex Camp]

Training programs, about two or three days for, you know, for franchisee, depending on their, their real involvement of the store. Are they going to be hands on and running it themselves? If, if they are, then we'll extend that out to two weeks. But if they're not. They're hiring operators to come do it. We'll get two operators to come down, and they will stay with our team for two weeks. Yeah, right. Yeah. That way, by the time they hit the road, they can go back and hire and they at least know by training, training team gets there. We know that at least two people in the building know what's going on

[Brian]

and are using scoops at all levels of training for training the franchisee to the general manager, to the frontline staff. It's all there.

[Alex Camp]

It's all there.

[Brian]

And what about vertical, like, tangible path, paths of growth for, like, the frontline employee?

[Alex Camp]

Like, yeah, so, like, yeah, I get

[Brian]

hired as a, you know, fry operator. Do I know my potential growth with that organization from day one?

[Alex Camp]

Yeah. So, I mean, we. We have a base set for ourselves that franchisees could mirror, but really it come down to Kyler and his team going in and working with franchisees saying, hey, this is, you know, the growth path, and then utilizing some of the tools that we use internally on the. On our side to do so. Because franchisees might want to have a different perspective on what that growth path is, but we do have a system. So it's like, you know, you come in, you learn how to do cook, and then you're, you know, promoted to cashier because, you know, whatever. And then we move, say, promoted to shift lead, and then shift lead to assistant manager and then manager to gm. Like, what is. What are the steps that we need to do to be able to get to where I want to go? Yeah.

[Brian]

Can you guys believe we've been going for about an hour and a half on already? You're like, yeah, it's been brutal, man.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, it's been.

[Brian]

What do you want to talk? Make, like, what hasn't come out of today's conversation that you think should have come out of today's conversation?

[Alex Camp]

I don't. That's a good question. I don't think I had any true agenda for today's conversation. So I think we had. We touched on some really good touch points. You know, I would just hope that the message that we. We went through today really resonates with other people out there and potential franchisees, our franchisees that we have today, all of that good stuff. It's just Lanes is a really awesome brand. We stand on four unique pillars that we think are going to hold this brand up.

[Brian]

A lot of those four pillars.

[Alex Camp]

So Hot food, Fast pet, which is perfect every time, over the top, which is OTT. And then our 15 to 11 which is going to be based off that Yelp study saying that out of every 15 reviews, only one of them is about the food, and more was about the service. So it's really a service metric. How do we go above and beyond to be hospital?

[Brian]

How do you get to that number? How do you achieve that number of 15? One.

[Alex Camp]

It's. It's. It's a stretch goal that we always have to apply. So, I mean, every day we're saying, how do we get to that 15 to 1? And that's what we drive, strive, and strive for. And we even have 15 to 1 pens that we'll give out to employees if they just didn't. They just bleed with hospitality or went out of their way, you know, opened a door on a rainy day for a guest with an umbrella. Whatever it is, you name it, it's. It's food.

[Brian]

Is the expectation.

[Alex Camp]

Correct.

[Brian]

Fifteen to one is what matters, what people aren't expecting. It's the human element. It's the going above and beyond.

[Kyler Esposito]

It's what separates you.

[Brian]

Yeah. I have to say, if you feel like you're being inconvenienced, if somebody asks, asks you to do something, or if you recognize that there's something to do and it's an inconvenience, that feeling of inconvenience is your sign to go do the thing because it's incon. Inconveniencing yourself for the convenience of others is hospitality. That's generosity.

[Alex Camp]

Right.

[Brian]

That's warmth. That's giving from yourself for someone else. And train yourself to feel inconvenience is actually a good thing. Yeah.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Let's get that 15 to 1. This is an opportunity.

[Alex Camp]

Right.

[Brian]

Like, and it's a. Just. It's a pivot, you know, Tyler, same same idea. Anything you want to get out?

[Kyler Esposito]

No, I think that's, you know, Alex nailed it on the head. And I think the one thing that. That separates us is our ability as a franchisor to. To differentiate the relationship side and the service side and the support side of the business. And, you know, this is now the third brand I've been with. And what we do different is we are there for you every step of the way, and then the relationship is with it. Right. It's not transactional. Nothing we do is going to be transactional. Everything we do on the op side is going to have purpose and reason, and it's going to have a why. And I think that's. That's what separates us is. Is we are. We are more. You are more than Just a number as a franchisee. Right. You are, you are somebody that we want to understand and get to know and, and what drives you and why are you in this? And then if you're a prospective franchisee, it's the same thing. You, you're coming into a brand where we are going to welcome you with open arms. And it's not just because you're a number to help us grow. It's because it's just somebody else in the organization that we're also, you know, betting on that's going to have the same gaff that we have and is going to have the same love for the brand that we have. Yeah, we're very selective in that. Now I say we, Samir and Garrett and. And the rest of the leadership team are very selective in who they bring all on board because they have to fit what we want as a brand.

[Brian]

Yeah. And that's. That's the. Being a people picker is the one of the best skills you can have. Because it. It. That's perception. Like, that's reality. Those people are the reality of your culture. It's not what you say you are. You can have all the fancy slogans, you can put them all over the wall, but what are you doing every day?

[Kyler Esposito]

Correct.

[Brian]

And who are those people that you're putting. That's your culture, is the reality of what happens every day. And the who that you put put in place, I want to make sure it comes out. If we're listening to this audience of restaurant tours, aspiring restaurant owners, your target market to recruit the right people across the country to be a part of this brand. What is your message to them? If they're interested. If they. If you've piqued their interest in what you're doing here at Lanes, what kind of person are you looking for? What's the call to action?

[Alex Camp]

I would say high energy, quirky, but yet serious. It really kind of comes down to. And I'm gonna elongate this. It comes down to the Astro chicken. Right. So the chicken represents the goofiness of us, the awkwardness that we all have as individuals, especially in the restaurant industry. But then it also embodies with the space helmet about serious, man.

[Brian]

It's going to space tactical. Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

Right. Yeah. Mission critical.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

So it's the combination of both of. And we'll. We'll use it on each other around the office all the time. Hey, man, you're being too much chicken. Or hey, Alex, you're being way too much helmet. Yeah. Because I can easily put on the helmet and just go, yeah, but that's. That's who we're looking for. And regardless of the position, you gotta. You gotta embody that Astral Chicken and then come to work every day and get it done.

[Brian]

Kyler, what's your message?

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah, it's. It's the same thing. I mean, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but we're, you know, we're all in line when it comes to what we want out of, you know, every relationship we have here. And I do think it's that the four pillars, it's the Asher chicken. It's the love of the brand. It's. It's coming to work every day and wanting to be here knowing that it's an opportunity.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Kyler Esposito]

And if you're going to come in and this is gonna be job. If you want to be a franchisee and this is just an investment, it's probably not the best place for you. So, you know, it's. It's really finding those individuals that love what they do, because this man, the restaurant business is a grind. Grind. And if you're not a grinder and you're not willing to get after it, then it's just not. It's not the easiest investment. But if you put your heart and soul into it and you put love into it and you invest in the people, it's the best industry in the world, and I'll never leave it.

[Brian]

I do like to wrap up every episode before asking the final questions of, like, peering into the future a little bit. I think the restaurant industry has been kind of guilty of being reactional. We react to the market, we react to the consumer. We're always just in this reaction mode of survival. How do we get out of this reactive state and into a proactive state of saying, this is the future we want for the restaurant industry, and how do we go create that. That future as an industry together?

[Kyler Esposito]

That is a loaded question.

[Alex Camp]

That's a very loaded question.

[Kyler Esposito]

That could be another hour and a half.

[Brian]

That's what I'm here for.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah. Yeah. I think it depends on the brand, depends on the journey, depends on the demographic, the markets they're in, depends on the technology stack. I think it depends on political sways in our country.

[Brian]

Let me reposition the question. What's an element of the industry you don't like and that we can make better?

[Kyler Esposito]

That's a good one.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah. What I don't like about the industry, the restaurant industry, I think it is the. The overall fact that most restaurants are transactional. Right. And so that's what we're striving not to be. Right. And I think a lot of other restaurant brands need to strive for the same things.

[Brian]

How do we achieve it?

[Alex Camp]

You know, what I'll tell you is I think that everybody needs to work. A restaurant job.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

Almost mandatory.

[Brian]

I think that's part of the issue, is the consumer is part of the issue. And I'll say it. I think restaurant owners are afraid to say it because God forbid they offend their, you know, their, their target market, their clientele, their, the people that pay their bills. But I'll say it. I think the consumer, I think we've created this ecosystem of the customer is always right. Give, give, give, give. Also the, the sheer number of giant corporations that are willing just to make sure the customers are right and give away the house. That we've conditioned the consumer to think that they can be a complete prick and just abuse these relationships. And we have no, we have no choice but just to go, please don't write a bad review. You know, like, we've created this really weird position. And I think that it does start with the consumer understanding, to your point, go work in a restaurant.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah. I mean, you'll never see me write a bad review. I just won't go back.

[Brian]

Why? What's the point? Don't vote. Review with your money.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Like, you know, and do you have thoughts?

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah, I think, you know, what would I change in the industry? And I think. Or what, what do I try and focus on, focus on with my team is convenience now is just the absolute expectation, especially in qsr. And it's how do we separate ourselves? And I think what we try and focus on is the energy and the positivity we bring to each transaction. The 15 to 1 and we hound that all the time just because if we're going to separate ourselves and if we're going to make somebody's day, especially in a QSR setting, it's got to be immediate and it's got to be authentic. And, you know, it sounds corny, but we always smile through the headset kind of thing. Right.

[Brian]

Like it translates.

[Kyler Esposito]

It does. And it's the same thing. And, you know, that's why we look at the, you know, cashier as a promotion. And so you have to, you got to earn that. You got to be somebody that's going to give this level of service. And you know, so many, so many people that go into this industry, you know, it doesn't matter if it's fast, casual, Full service qsr. They're going in because they need a job. Oh, man. And I get that. But if you can just bring the energy to it, I think the industry will give back to you, and the customer will give back to you. And, yeah, it can be difficult, but at the same time, if we can be proactive in our behavior and proactive in our mindset and proactive in our energy, it's very hard for a customer to then just really flip the script on you. And that's what I found in my career.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Okay. Some final questions for you guys. I get a lot of eye rolls with these questions.

[Alex Camp]

This will be fun.

[Brian]

What's one thing about Lane's a value, a process, a system that makes you guys truly unstoppable? I think I know the answer.

[Alex Camp]

I mean, it's our people.

[Brian]

Yeah. Do you want to back that up, or do you have something else to say, Kyler?

[Kyler Esposito]

I mean, we've now been talking an hour and a half, and all I focused on is people, so. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, what would.

[Brian]

What would. Garrett. Sorry.

[Kyler Esposito]

Protect the brand.

[Brian]

That's what they say, too.

[Kyler Esposito]

I think that's.

[Alex Camp]

That.

[Kyler Esposito]

That's gonna be it. I mean, that's the. That's the constant.

[Alex Camp]

Right.

[Kyler Esposito]

But diving into that a little bit more. It is. It is people, you know, which is

[Brian]

a testament to the culture. One of the ways you can tell if a company has a good culture is if the answers to the questions are consistent among all the people that you're talking to.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Which has. That's been.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Brian]

The mission statement is to change the world. Who the hell do I think I am? By inspiring, empowering, and transforming the restaurant industry. And I think that we're going to do that by changing one restaurant owner at a time. If they can change. If we can change restaurant owners, we can change restaurants, we can change communities. But how have you personally transformed. How are you better men today than the men you were when you got started in this industry?

[Alex Camp]

That's a conversation, constant development.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Alex Camp]

I mean, how am I better?

[Brian]

Well, you're better today than you were yesterday. You'll be better tomorrow than you are today. But how are you better today?

[Alex Camp]

Yeah. Why? Or how.

[Brian]

How are you better?

[Alex Camp]

I would say it's just really about all the lessons I've learned through all the mentors that I've had throughout the. My. My industry or my career. I should say I'm a better person because I. It's all about the perspective of being able to put myself in the position of anybody in the restaurant at any point in time. Right. Just like Kyler, you might answer this. I don't want to steer anything but putting yourself in a position of the franchisee. So every decision I make now is, is based off and starts there. Right. Nothing will get changed without us going and saying, hey, if I was a line cook in our restaurant today, how would I operate this change? Right. Because I, I used to hate the fact when corporate would push out a new LTO and do all this stuff and bring in all those things and never really cared about the day to day person and did it make sense? Yeah. Right.

[Brian]

Kyler, what you got?

[Kyler Esposito]

I think I've just grown on my mindset on the industry. Right. And I think when I first got into this and I first started franchising, it was, hey, this is a great business opportunity. And I didn't realize how many lives you can actually impact. Whether it's people that work with you, work for you, or customers, the community, the community that you're, that you're in. And for me, that's always, that's where I think I've grown the most, is it's now, now a decade plus doing this. It's. How can I, how can I impact lives more than. It's just I'm here from a business standpoint.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah.

[Kyler Esposito]

And man, if you would have known me when I was 24 and signing up for my first franchise compared to where I am now, now, just the whole mentality of how I look at the industry has changed for the better. And, and if you're in this long enough, you can get jaded in certain aspects for sure. But at the same time, I just, I choose to be positive about every aspect of the industry and I choose to want to love the industry and do what's best for the industry and, and the community and the people. And that's where I've, I've massively changed my mindset is.

[Brian]

Yeah. And I think that's massively why the restaurant industry has the potential to change the world. Because if we can change the outlook of all these owners and these, these, the values of these leaders and these executives across the industry, to prioritize that over profitability. Not to say that profitability isn't important, but it's just the fuel to drive the purpose. But the purpose is to do what you're talking about. And if we can, I think we kind of get that little tail wags the horse or cow or whatever, the dog. I'm in Texas. Sorry, excuse me. I'm In Texas, my neighbors are cows right now. Anyway, cows wag their tails too, don't they?

[Alex Camp]

Do.

[Kyler Esposito]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian]

At some point it works. If we can do that, it would be really powerful. Guys, thank you so much. I usually ask this other question. It's hard with two guests, but I'll let you guys take a crack at it. If you got the news you'd be leaving this world tomorrow, all the memories of you, you work in your restaurants will be lost with your departure. With the exception of three pieces of wisdom that you could leave behind for the good of humanity and your legacy. What would those three pieces of wisdom be? I know that's the eye roller.

[Kyler Esposito]

So I mean, I'll take my first stab at this and I'll go back to where it all started, right? I didn't want to be in this industry, right. I didn't want to be a franchisee. And when my old man was fading into the next life, right, we had a lot of these conversations, decisions, and a lot of it was legacy based and a lot of it was, you know, the cliche, leave the world better than you found it. But I do think in this industry we have that ability, especially on the personal level. And for me, it's, it's. I would love my legacy and what I would leave behind to just be how much I love the people and how much I was able to help people along the way.

[Alex Camp]

Love people, Help people.

[Brian]

Is that two or is that one?

[Kyler Esposito]

That's one.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Kyler Esposito]

Impact.

[Brian]

Oh, man, that's a tough question.

[Kyler Esposito]

It's really just the. Just the impact you leave on. On people that you've worked with. And then also, you know, I'd be. I'd be ashamed if I don't. I didn't mention just the kind of man I am at home with my family and that side of it and being able to balance this industry and this job and then the family side of it.

[Brian]

So lead with love.

[Kyler Esposito]

Lead with love.

[Brian]

Make an impact. Make time for family.

[Kyler Esposito]

Correct.

[Brian]

What you got, Alex?

[Alex Camp]

Damn, that. That was good. I was going to say the same thing, you know, about you can double

[Brian]

down,

[Alex Camp]

you know, because your, your attitude and how you face every day, every situation, every, every encounter with another human being, it matters and alters the way that they go through life. So, yeah, love people, right? 1. Adjust your attitude to dance naked. 3.

[Brian]

Let's go dancing. This has been fun, guys. I do try to find my future guests from my current guest. So if knowing after going through this experience, the majority of my guests are owners, restaurant tours who Are your biggest idols out there, the people that. In the restaurant industry that you admire the most. That if you could be more like this operator tomorrow, you'd start doing that. Like who. Who do you respect and admire? I think I should get a guest on the show.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Kyler Esposito]

So I have two. Two mentors. My previous, you know, the previous organization I was with Armor. Armor Coffee, Armor Brewing Company. I was an operating partner there. And the. The owner. The owner of that organization was a husband and wife, but Mike. Mike Todrick. Michael Todrick.

[Brian]

T O D D T O D

[Kyler Esposito]

R Y K. Okay. Todrick and Mike, he was 17 years in.

[Alex Camp]

In.

[Kyler Esposito]

In working for Abbott Pharmaceuticals and then decided to get into the restaurant business.

[Brian]

Wow.

[Kyler Esposito]

And I bet you he's first of all one. One of the most exciting guys you'll ever be around. The energy is unbelievable to his perspective is probably interesting. Going from a very, very, very solid career to high risk. High risk. So he'd be a great guy and I'm sure he would do this. And, and, and his what wife, Jen Todrick is also part of the business. Also would be a really interesting group interview just because she is. She's an influencer and an HGTV personality. So they're interesting. And then my other is my mentor, Courtney Smith. She's been in this industry for 30 years. La Madeline Corner Bakery, Nukes. Um, she's now with. She was with OLO Monkey Media. So she's been on the catering and sales side from her start. But she has tons of experience all the way through. Has been with brands that are. That are massive.

[Brian]

And so she's a marketer.

[Kyler Esposito]

She's. Yeah, she's always been in. Yeah, marketing and catering.

[Brian]

Got it.

[Kyler Esposito]

Sales.

[Brian]

Courtney, Mike, Jen, look out. I'm coming after you. Did I cut you short?

[Kyler Esposito]

No, you didn't.

[Brian]

Alex, you got anybody that comes to mind?

[Alex Camp]

You know, one of them is no longer with us, so that doesn't work. But I'd say they. A previous boss I had, Paul d' Amico is a good talk. He'd be a good person to get with.

[Brian]

Paul d'. Amico.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah. He's been with multiple brands and hotels and all sorts of stuff.

[Brian]

Nice. Paul, Mike, Jen, Corny coming after you guys. I'd love to get you on the show. Kyler, Alex, guys, thank you so much for making time for me in your busy day. I know you weren't expecting to do this today. It popped up in your calendar.

[Alex Camp]

Been awesome, man.

[Brian]

You handled it really well.

[Kyler Esposito]

It's been great.

[Alex Camp]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian]

You're incredible. And it's not easy to get open, to get vulnerable, and to get generous with your time and knowledge. So I can't do what I do without people like you. So thank you so much. There is no questioning you are unstoppable.

[Alex Camp]

Awesome.

[Kyler Esposito]

Appreciate.

[Brian]

Cheers.

[Alex Camp]

Thank you so much.

[Jason]

There's another episode wrapped up here at Restaurant Unstoppable. Special thanks to our guest today, Alex Camp and Kyler Esposito, letting me go deeper into the world of Lane's chicken fingers. And we have two more episodes lined

[Brian]

up back to back after this.

[Jason]

Going deeper into the world of Lanes.

[Brian]

We're gonna be talking to Natalie Hurley,

[Jason]

the VP of marketing. And we're also gonna be talking to Eric Reed, chief development officer.

[Brian]

He's actually Garrett Reed's brother, co owner.

[Jason]

And this is fun.

[Brian]

I love being able to pull back the layers, talking to all the. The chiefs, all the executives, all the. The leadership in these organizations to, to

[Jason]

just go deeper into the specifics of

[Brian]

whatever, you know, niche, whatever title that they're.

[Jason]

They're carrying. I think it's fun to kind of

[Brian]

understand the different roles within these larger organizations, especially as they're scaling and being able to tell the story as we go.

[Jason]

It's a lot of fun. Thank you to everybody over at Lanes. And if you want to join Alex Camp and Kyler, they're going to be

[Brian]

joining us live for coffee with Eric. I think we have it scheduled for April 13th. Those two will be live with us. So if you want to head over to restaurantunstoppable.com CWE we'll get you the

[Jason]

zoom link to join us for this conversation. Again, this will be on April 13th.

[Brian]

That is the date. Mark your calendar.

[Jason]

And if you want to be a

[Brian]

part of all these conversations, support this podcast.

[Jason]

Head over to restaurantstoppable.com live. We're having a blast over at Restaurant Unstoppable Network, and we're only getting better. We are developing an app that will let you basically take Restaurant Unstoppable with

[Brian]

you everywhere ad free early release bonus content.

[Jason]

We have our Unstoppable where you. You can ask it any question. We're uploading the transcripts to all of these episodes and all the bonus content,

[Brian]

the conversations we're having behind the scenes.

[Jason]

We're uploading all those transcripts to an

[Brian]

AI, our own AI agent, where you can ask any question about restaurants you

[Jason]

want and it will cipher through all

[Brian]

those conversations and give you the best answer it can. And it's just a lot of fun. We're doing some really cool stuff here, and we'd love to have you be a part of it again.

[Jason]

Head over to restaurantstoppable.com and if you don't want to support the show that

[Brian]

way, we would love to have you

[Jason]

leave us a review or just spread the word about the work we're doing

[Brian]

to inspire, empower, and transform the industry. We'll see you next time.