1281: Peter and Martha Pollay, co-founders of Mandara Hospitality Group

Summary

Restaurant Unstoppable with Eric Cacciatore

Episode 1281: Peter and Martha Pollay, Co-Founders of Mandara Hospitality Group
Air Date: July 13, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, host Eric Cacciatore sits down with Peter and Martha Pollay, co-founders of Mandara Hospitality Group and the driving force behind Asheville’s acclaimed Posana Restaurant. The conversation charts their journey from early life influences and foundational career moments, through the birth and evolution of their restaurant group, highlighting their unique approach to hospitality, operational pivots, human-centered leadership, and innovative models for restaurant growth in an ever-changing industry. The Pollays candidly discuss the why and how behind their fully gluten-free concept, lessons from scaling and consulting, the art of work-life balance, and their system-driven but people-first approach that’s enabled Mandara to thrive—and remain "unstoppable."

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Personal Philosophies & Mantras (04:36–07:40)

• Martha’s Mantra:

  "No is not an end point, it's a starting point. I almost find there’s always a way to find a solution." – Martha, 04:36

• Peter’s Mantra:

  "I try to learn something every day and I try to do better every day." – Peter, 06:49

• Their shared approach is relentless problem-solving (“We find a way”), creativity, and a commitment to elevating themselves and their team.

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2. The Mandara/Posana Story: Scale, Structure & Revenue Strategy (07:56–13:38)

• Mandara Hospitality Group includes two Posana locations (Downtown Asheville and South Asheville), plus consulting work—primarily helping hoteliers integrate food services.
• Seating/Scale Comparisons:
  • Downtown: ~130 seats (main room, patio, private dining, bar).
  • South Asheville: 220 seats, larger and more spread out (10:00).
• Private Dining:
  • Private event rooms (about ~900 sq ft) make up only 1/6 of the total space but drive 20–30% of total revenue (12:26).
  • Hiring responsive event coordinators is key to maximizing these bookings.
• Revenue/Profitability:
  • Downtown: ~$3 million/year; Banquets/private events up 30% (14:52).
  • South Asheville: Opened just 6 months, tracking toward $5 million.
  • Profit targets: 5–10%—respectable under high-touch, high-labor models (17:19).

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3. Building the Foundation: Backstory and Early Influences (18:36–34:04)

Peter’s Path:

• Grew up in NJ, studied political science, but cooking for housemates led to restaurant work.
• Opened doors through Larry Levy (Levy Restaurants, Chicago); started as a dishwasher, learned operations “from the ground up.”
• Culinary Institute of America grad (1995) at age 27, bringing more self-knowledge and discipline:

  "I just cooked. And as the time went by, I really enjoyed cooking for my housemates and friends... and I told my dad one day I wanted to learn how to cook." (23:47)

• Relished every station—as dishwasher, prep, line, eventually management in Las Vegas, Chicago, LA; worked in high-volume catering and restaurant openings with Wolfgang Puck/Levy.

Martha’s Path:

• From a Wisconsin family with six generations in food (Jones Meatpacking).
• Never envisioned a career in food; interests in arts, teaching, photography. Family business background provided operational DNA and understanding of supply.
• Early lessons: the integral, cross-generational value of food service in business and culture.

Their Union:

• Met via mutual friends in Chicago post-college (~1995); began dating in 1999, married in 2000, moved to LA, then Asheville (2003).
• Family considerations: Peter stepped out of kitchens into real estate to maximize time with their young children.

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4. Launching Posana: Navigating Opportunity and Risk (51:56–69:14)

• Opportunity: In 2008, Martha spotted a closed, high-visibility restaurant space (Cafe on the Square/Martha Nell’s) in downtown Asheville.
• Negotiation: Bought out the lease, inheriting equipment, and assumed a pre-2000’s lease that provided favorable terms, with no percentage rent or CAM fees (58:38).
• Build-out: ~$150K for the business + $350K renovations = ~$500K to launch—a "low" number in today’s market.
• Initial Model: Opened as a 100% gluten-free concept—motivated by Martha's celiac diagnosis and desire for quality.

  "I was a little mortified... at that time, most gluten-free experiences were abysmal... but our food had to be so good, it went unnoticed." – Martha (82:11)

• Challenge: Started with breakfast, lunch, and limited dinners; quickly learned sales were driven by dinner and private dining, not lunch or breakfast.

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5. Pivoting & Perfecting the Concept (70:34–94:06)

• Iterative refinement:
  • Dropped breakfast and lunch (“public service, losing money”), focused on dinner and private events.
  • Listened to customer perceptions—needed ambiance/brand (lighting, décor) to match food quality.
  • 2012 Renovation: Intensive, lighting-focused overhaul over 12 days, transforming guest experience and spiking sales (76:38).
  • Lessons in re-education: "It takes a long time to get through to people of what you are…there is a huge cost in re-educating." – Martha (81:18)
• Brought in chef de cuisine, delegated management, expanded internal promotion, and honed a scalable operational system.

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6. Scaling: Expansion, Consulting, and Hospitality Partnerships (86:35–106:13)

• Focused on building strong in-house leaders to free up founders for new ventures (Jordan Harris, chef de cuisine rising to Director of Culinary).
• Consulting for hotel groups (AC Hotel, Kimpton, others):
  • Menu design, operations training, standards implementation.
  • Hybrid partnership models: typically leasing space from a hotel, running as independent brand but integrating with hotel (room service, banquets, etc.). Sometimes, a retainer/consulting fee; occasionally equity/50-50 ownership with hotelier on restaurant entity.
  • Crucial learning about partnership boundaries:

    "We could have sold that [hotel event] space…but they didn't want to take it off the market unless 20 rooms went with it…wasn't really clear how that worked." – Martha (109:17)

• Exited some hotel-restaurant ventures post-pandemic due to misalignment of expectations and burnout.

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7. Culture, People, Leadership, and Balance (117:11–125:46)

• Work-life balance:
  • After COVID, intentionally structured more staff & overhead at the cost of profit to preserve quality of life and team culture.
  • Developed an executive team—Director of Operations, Chief Culinary Officer, Bookkeeper, Social Media/Marketing—well in advance of scale, because “my life is better for it.” (119:38)
• Building teams:
  • Emphasis on training “blank canvas” staff post-pandemic.
  • High standards and “constant, gentle pressure”—inspired by Danny Meyer—to groom service team for long-term success.

  "Our staff is becoming what we have downtown...it's really just unbelievable." – Peter (123:42)

• Leadership: True “family”/tribe approach; building infrastructure first, then scaling, not the reverse.

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8. Business Model Innovation & Industry Challenges (129:57–140:31)

• On Tipping & Wages:
  • Sharing candidly the difficulties of existing pay models, equity between front and back of house, and the challenge of collective action among restaurateurs to effect real change—due to antitrust/anti-collusion laws.
  • Experimented with whole-house tip sharing post-COVID—"not everyone was happy," highlighting the psychological and economic complexities for both FOH and BOH.
• On Landlord/Developer Partnerships:
  • Stressed negotiation:

    "You can literally negotiate anything. The restaurant owner needs to know that." – Peter (113:39)

  • Argues that restaurants elevate the value of buildings and communities and should negotiate for better terms, TI allowances, or other benefits as compensation for added value.
• On Expansion & Vision:
  • Plans for expanding Posana model to other NC (or regional) cities—possible Charlotte, Raleigh, Greenville—to leverage their brand as a “fully gluten-free, universally appealing” dining option (126:53).
  • Consulting and potentially other new concepts (in Asheville first, then elsewhere).

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9. Marketing, Technology, and Guest Experience (142:16–148:56)

• Most Impactful Tech/Marketing Shift:
  • Investing in Google Ads and maintaining a robust, SEO-rich website (Dearborn Digital credited as their Google Ads partner).

    “The year after Helene [hurricane] was actually our best year ever at downtown Posana.” – Martha (143:20)

  • OpenTable as the preferred reservation platform, citing its dominance in Asheville.
  • Caution: Overreliance on Google/Meta is risky long-term; notes that there must be industry-wide discussions on how technology and data shape both business and consumer experience.
  • Website SEO tips: “Feed the Google bots, don’t change the first paragraph of your homepage or you’ll drop search rankings.” – Martha (148:31)

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10. Legacy, Leadership, and Wisdom (152:48–157:36)

• What’s Unstoppable/Unique?

  • 100% gluten-free culinary execution.
  • Focus on guest emotion/experience as the decision driver for every process.
  • Staff culture: deep investment in people and personal growth.

• Transformational Lessons:

  • Greater self-compassion, team focus, prioritizing humanity and balance.
  • Leadership is modeling the change you wish to see—balancing personal time, setting the culture.

• Three Pieces of Wisdom:

  1. “Put out what you want to ripple out.” – Martha
  2. “Be self-compassionate. Don’t forget about yourself.” – Peter
  3. “There is always a solution.” – Martha

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Resilience & Creative Problem-Solving:

  "No is not an end point, it's a starting point." – Martha (04:36)
  "Whether you think you can or you can't, you're right." – Host (05:55)

• On Negotiation Power:

  “You can literally negotiate anything…The restaurant owner needs to know that you can negotiate anything. And it’s just business.” – Peter (113:35)

• On the Purpose of Restaurants:

  “Restaurants are what change communities…It creates jobs for people. It’s all that.” – Host (65:19)

• On Guest Experience:

  “The starting point is how it’s going to make the customer feel. And all decisions are based on that.” – Martha (152:59)

• On Legacy:

  “You always have to look back. Are you setting that example? Usually your staff is a really great mirror for your own shortcomings.” – Martha (156:47)

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Important Timestamps for Reference

• Core Mantras / Philosphies: 04:36–07:40
• Mandara Group & Posana Overview: 07:56–13:38
• Private Dining & Revenue Strategies: 12:26–14:52
• Launch of Posana, Initial Funding: 51:56–69:14
• Operational Pivots & Lighting Renovation: 70:34–81:10
• Gluten-Free Focus: 82:11–99:14
• Expansion to Consulting/Hotels: 86:35–106:13
• Negotiating with Developers: 112:16–113:56
• Post-Pandemic Operations & Balance: 117:28–123:42
• Industry Change & Tipping Discussion: 129:57–140:49
• Tech/Marketing Edge: 142:16–148:56
• Leadership & Parting Wisdom: 152:48–157:36

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Connect with Peter & Martha Pollay / Mandara Hospitality Group

• Email:
  • [e-mail]
  • [e-mail]
• Social:
  • @PosanaRestaurant (Instagram)
  • Mandara Hospitality Group: website
• Consulting Inquiries:
  • Contact via email for hotel F&B or restaurant development info.

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Referrals from Peter & Martha:

• Chad Blackwelder (NC Dept. of Agriculture advocate)
• George “Chick” Evans (Maxie’s Ithaca, NY)
• Widely admire: José Andrés & Danny Meyer

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Host’s Takeaway:
The Pollays model a future in which hospitality is creative, people-first, and operationally nimble—with the courage to redefine models and the humility to keep learning. Their journey is a blueprint for how purpose, adaptability, and integrity make restaurant dreams truly unstoppable.

Transcript

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Allow me to introduce to you today's guest co founders of Bandara Hospitality Group, Peter and Martha Polay. Peter Martha, are you feeling unstoppable today?

[Martha Polay]

Always.

[Peter Polay]

Oh yeah, we are unstoppable. I'm stoked every other day, always.

[Host]

Also, I had fun looking into your history, doing a little bit of research. The values that are kind of, you know, forward facing are clearly there. So I know this is going to be good and I want to give a special shout out to Philip Volhoffer for putting you on my radar. I'm so happy. Yes, thank you did I can't wait to dive into who you are, how you got to where you are today. But let's get that motivational inspirational ball rolling with a success quote or mantra. What do you got for us?

[Martha Polay]

It's sort of my philosophy is no is not an end point, it's a starting point. And I almost find there's always a way to find a solution.

[Host]

Let's dive into that. So why, why does that resonate with you? Why did you bring that to today's conversation?

[Martha Polay]

Well, because I think you run into a lot of obstacles in the restaurant industry and I think I've run into a lot of no's maybe in childhood. And I guess if, you know, creativity is where I default to and problems are things I love to solve. And so no, like if Peter says no, that's not we can't do that. And I'm like, no, I'm pretty sure we can.

[Host]

So many things Rhymes in my mind hearing that.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah. And. And it also goes into one of our core values, is we find a way. We always need to find a way. We're always thinking on our feet. You know, you plan the best you can to have a good shift, knowing that it's not going to be perfect.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

So you always have to be on your feet. You always have to find a way to please the customer, to get the best food out, to help your staff, to, you know, even support your delivery people, because they're all people, too, and they make our restaurant run.

[Host]

Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right. You know, that's what I think of when I hear that. And it's no surprise, Martha, that you chose that quote as a creative. Because problem solving lives in the frontal lobe. It's that creative problem. Like, what is the solution? And as soon as you think that there is, as soon as you convince yourself that there is a way or you commit to finding the way, your brain will find out that way. It will figure it out. But if you say, no, there is no way. That's our human instinct to conserve energy. So we don't waste energy on that huge part of our brain. That energy suck the frontal lobe. So like, we just say, no, it's not possible. And then we shut that part of our brain off and we don't find the solution. It's a very powerful.

[Peter Polay]

Well, that resonates quite a bit with me because I love to conserve energy.

[Host]

There's something to be said about efficiency, too. Right. It's that balance.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah.

[Host]

Peter, did you want to bring anything to the. Your own success?

[Peter Polay]

It's. It's a little humbling, but I think it's a great mantra for me, is that I try to learn something every day and I try to do better every day. And it just gets me to try to keep pushing myself every day, constantly elevating, constantly elevated.

[Host]

Yeah. I just recently had Molly Irani. Irani. Irani. Iran Irani. Thank you very much. Really enjoy talking to her. But one of their core values, and this is just fresh in my mind, is show up and step up and show up is one of my. Just keep showing up is like one of my mantras. But I'm like, I got to steal that. Because it's not enough just to show up. You got to step up every day, too. You got to elevate. So.

[Peter Polay]

Right. And in this day and age, showing up is almost half of it.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

But you still need the other half to to succeed and. And to thrive.

[Host]

Great way to get this thing started. Awesome. So before we dive into each of your individual backstories and where you kind of intercepted each other and how you got to where you are today, give us a snapshot. What is the Mandara Hospitality Group today?

[Peter Polay]

Oh, I'll take this one. So Mandara Hospitality Group, we are a hospitality group that we manage restaurants. We own and operate two locations of Pasana right now. And we also do consulting for people that want to open up a restaurant or that need, you know, like, we worked with a lot of hoteliers recently that they know hotels, they know beds, they know that hospitality, they don't know a restaurant. But many hotels are now, you know, like the select service hotels are putting in restaurants or rooftop bars, and they just need a little bit of support to get that up and running. And that's where we come in. That's where Madara Hospitality Group comes in.

[Host]

I would love to dive into how you structure those types of deals. I think there's a lot of, like, you know, those partnerships, what they look like, how to approach that. I think that's really important information. And that also goes to show there's a million and one different ways to do hospitality. Right. Like, there's opportunities everywhere. So your two flagship or your one flagship concept is Basana. Did I say that correctly? I'm just making sure that's it. So many restaurants run through my. My head every day as I'm interviewing people from Persona. But the original was 2009, correct?

[Martha Polay]

Yeah.

[Host]

How similar are the two locations in terms of, like, volume size?

[Martha Polay]

Volume is where they differentiate the most.

[Peter Polay]

Okay, where they differentiate you most? Downtown, we.

[Host]

How many seats?

[Peter Polay]

How many seats we have? So that's a little complicated. We have in our main dining room, we have 64 seats. We also have a patio that's only open part of the year. That's 36 seats. And then we have a private dining room that holds 40.

[Martha Polay]

So that holds.

[Peter Polay]

And then a bar that holds 11. So you put that all together, we're about 130 seats.

[Host]

130 seats. When you're not using the private dining room, do you see in that space?

[Peter Polay]

We do overflow seating in that space. Of course. We try to use every inch, every day, all the time.

[Host]

So when you're on all cylinders, you're doing 150 seats. And about how many turns a night?

[Peter Polay]

About two, two and a half.

[Host]

Okay, and how does that compare to the space we're sitting in today?

[Peter Polay]

The space we're sitting in today? Is actually 50% larger in square footage. So you're looking at. We're at like, 220 seats.

[Host]

So 50% larger, but a little more roomy. Spread out. Only a hundred more seats.

[Peter Polay]

Right. The bathrooms are larger. The bar is much larger here. The kitchen's a little bit larger. So, yeah, it just, like, you run out of space very quickly in restaurants. It's really unbelievable.

[Host]

It's like you look into, like, you. You move to a new house, and

it's like, this bedroom's huge.

And then you put your bed in there. You're like, oh, it's not that big, actually.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah. And then you realize you don't have enough closets. It's always huge. I'm always happy with that. Like, the big expenditure of a house. I'm not gonna say anything. Is not perfect.

[Martha Polay]

So this. This is like, how many. 6,500 square feet?

[Peter Polay]

This is just about 6,500 square feet downtown. We're at 4,000 square feet.

[Martha Polay]

And I'd say what was really interesting with our executive team, like, when we were moving into this location from having a smaller location, I think the consensus was, to those guys, not me, was that it was going to be huge. And I think that the walk away was that you need this space. And this restaurant that we took over had an office the size of this table we're sitting at.

[Host]

Oh, wow.

[Martha Polay]

And it didn't have any storage, which

[Peter Polay]

is pretty typical for restaurants.

[Martha Polay]

But I don't. It might be typical for restaurants, but it's not typical for how we function. And so part of it was figuring out, how do we make more space in this space? And that's a whole part of what we can talk about, too, of how to make an effective running restaurant. Like, this room is 18 inches wider maybe, than it was when we took it over. And by doing that, we can get two rows of tables for a private event.

[Host]

So every inch counts.

[Martha Polay]

I mean.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah. So now we have 40 seats in the private event room than before, it was only 20. So the 40 number is a pretty good spot for us to be in for private events. Any kind of private event. Rehearsal dinner, wedding, birthday party, pharmaceutical dinners.

[Host]

Anything goes relative to the split of private dining versus your primary dining floor. What's that split of total revenue look like?

[Peter Polay]

Total revenue? Well, last year downtown, we had a really great year of banquets, and it was just about 30%.

[Host]

So 30% of total revenue comes from private dining? Yeah. I think private dining is so huge.

[Martha Polay]

Huge.

[Host]

So huge.

[Martha Polay]

Like, you. Like, it meant ripping out all the bathrooms here to get 18 inches. But when I made him run the numbers, I'm like, you will pay for that in no time.

[Host]

How many square feet is this room?

[Peter Polay]

That's a good question. I think it's got to be about 900.

[Martha Polay]

Eight or 900, right?

[Peter Polay]

Eight or 900.

[Host]

Eight or 900. And how many total square feet in the restaurant?

[Peter Polay]

6,500.

[Host]

6,500. So, like, almost one sixth of the restaurant space makes up for 30% of the revenue.

[Martha Polay]

And downtown? Yeah, the. It's 8 or 900 square feet as well. It's the same seating, basically 40 seats about for a private event, but the main dining is so much smaller.

[Host]

What's that. What's the total square footage of the original?

[Peter Polay]

4,000. Square.

[Host]

4,000 and the same. About 800 or you said a little smaller.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, it's about 800 in the back room. So that's 20%.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

But, yeah, we have. We have grown our banquet event and our events immensely over the last few years.

[Host]

Is that because you've realized that's where the money is, or is that just coincidentally?

[Peter Polay]

No, that's because we. Well, it's a little coincidentally, but I think over the years we have grown a great reputation that a lot of people around town suggest us. We are very responsive. We have an events coordinator that is on salary plus commission, and that's their compensation. And they. She does such a wonderful job. She gets back to people. Like, even in this day and age, it's hard to get back to people quickly. Everyone has so many things going on that might be 24, 48 hours. She's with usually within 15 to 30 minutes or an hour. And the party planners really appreciate that. The guests really appreciate that. Because sometimes we don't want that. Places don't even get lingering over you.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

And just that shows that we kind of know what we're doing as a business.

[Host]

So can you give us an idea of the total revenue or percent profit right now?

[Peter Polay]

Total revenue downtown is right at 3 million.

[Host]

Okay.

[Peter Polay]

We're hoping of a little bit of an increase, but, you know, tourism. We rely very heavily on tourism for our downtown location. That's still lagging a little bit ever since a year and a half ago, the hurricane. We had Helene, and we're still growing. It's still, you know, more and more people are starting to show up, but it's still a little bit less than it used to be.

[Host]

Before that, where was it before that?

[Peter Polay]

Like 2019. We'll say we had kind of back to back 2019 pre covered. We had a different model.

[Host]

Okay.

[Peter Polay]

Our prices were less expensive. We were open for brunch Saturday and Sunday and then six nights. Back then, we were like at two and a half, 2.5 million. After Covid, I, you know, took a step back. I was like, I'm working too much. Like, during COVID I worked more than I've ever worked in my life. Oh.

[Martha Polay]

Because we had Pasana one, the flagship, and we had just opened two new brands in the Heiress Hotel downtown district,

[Peter Polay]

in the Kimpton Hotel downtown Bargelo.

[Martha Polay]

And that staff went from like, what, like six.

[Peter Polay]

We went to like 60. Oh, 6,211 in like one day when the governor shut everyone down.

[Martha Polay]

So we were. And we had to stay open because we were in a hotel. So was a lot.

[Peter Polay]

It was a lot. And we'll get into it. And it finally, like, I want to be there for our customers and our staff. I want to be there to show them support and help them through the hard times. And help them through. But at that same time, I was there seven days a week almost all the time. And that's not.

[Host]

You can't lift up others if you're not up.

[Peter Polay]

Yes. And. But that's also me not showing and emulating that we want a work life balance of all of our staff. And I'm like, oh, I'm not emulating. That includes me. That includes me that I need to start doing that. So when we were able to reopen our downtown location, we opened for five nights and that was it. So we could always have Monday, Tuesday off.

[Host]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to getting into the evolution that story. So about 3 million with your. Your original location. Which.

[Peter Polay]

Correct.

[Host]

Which concept or which location does more volume?

[Peter Polay]

Well, here we're much larger. We've only opened six months ago. Okay. So we're still trying to figure that out, but we're estimating 5 million in sales here.

[Host]

Cool. And what are your target percent profit?

[Peter Polay]

Were you there right now? It's a little tricky, but, like, we're really shooting for between 5 and 10% profit at the end of the day.

[Host]

And I think for a model like this, the high touch. I'm assuming there's a lot of people behind in that kitchen. You know, full service, high labor costs, good quality food. You know, I think 5 to 10% from what I learned is, you know, like, if you're in that ballpark right now, you're doing better than most people.

[Peter Polay]

And I think that you're still making money, which is huge in this Business at this time. Right. And yes, everything's getting more expensive. Rent's getting more expensive, product is getting more expensive. You want your staff to be able to live outside of work and, you know, kind of not nickel and diming. When I was first coming up in the restaurants, like we would work without being punched in, just to work and to work in a good place. That wasn't legal then, but it was just kind of like an uncommon or an unwritten rule how you get ahead. That's how you get ahead. You. Yeah, the sweat equity now it's just, you know, us being owners. Yes, we would love to make more money. Why not? But not at the detriment of our staff, 100%.

[Host]

Okay, so now that we know where you are today, let's go back and start sharing the story. How did you get here? So I'm just going to fly through real quick what I know and let me know where you want to like kind of slow down. But Martha, you're from Wisconsin. Background, performing arts, English teacher, photography. And we'll just pause there. Peter, you're from New Jersey, Arizona State, Political science, pivoted after talking to a mentor. Larry Levy, CIA grad in 95. And then you kind of opened restaurants. Chicago, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, little stint with Wolfgang Puck. And then Chicago's where the two of you reconnect. But if I leave anything out in that, let me know. Like anything worth bringing to the conversation prior to that point.

[Martha Polay]

I don't know. Not necessarily,

[Peter Polay]

no. At CIA, I, I worked in Manhattan every weekend you kind of get out what you put in at the CIA. And thank goodness I was a little bit older. I don't think we need to get into that though.

[Host]

I think it's important to point out that in my experience, in my conversations, it's always the people who don't go straight from high school to the CIA who get the most out of it.

[Peter Polay]

Right.

[Host]

There's a clear pattern there that, you know, it's the people who've gone to school who know a little more self aware of who they are and really get the most out of that experience. I, I just can't help but surface

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[Peter Polay]

Yeah. And you know, leaving high school and going out on your own and going to college, like a lot of kids, that's their first time of, you know, not being watched over 100 of the time.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

So you kind of let loose. You kind of go a little wild. You kind of don't really make the best decisions.

[Host]

But I had a point one six my freshman year.

[Peter Polay]

Oh, my goodness. Yeah.

[Host]

And I turned it around to a 3.2, which isn't too shabby.

[Peter Polay]

I wonder what. Yeah, that's awesome. So I'm happy with that number.

[Host]

How. How old were you when you went back to school at the CIA?

[Peter Polay]

When I went back to school, I went in. Oh, geez. 93. So 25.

[Host]

Okay, so 25 years old. Your frontal lobe starting to round off. You're getting to the point where you kind of know, you know, what you want, what you love. You had mentors that steered you in that direction, Correct?

[Peter Polay]

Correct. I had of. Okay, little quick story. I was about to leave or graduate from Arizona State University after a good five and a half years of a lovely school, a party school. It's a lot of fun. I had a good time. I got out with political science. And I noticed over the last few years, I always lived in houses with a lot of roommates. And this is late 80s, early 90s, and there wasn't great food around campus at that time. So I just cooked. And as the time went by, I really enjoyed cooking for my housemates and friends and whoever else came by. And I told my dad one day I was going to go into. I wanted to be a cook. I wanted to learn how to cook.

[Host]

How is that received?

[Peter Polay]

There was a long pause. I could almost hear his jaw hit the ground. And he was like, really? That's. That's really hard to do. And I was like, yeah, that's okay. But, like, that's my interest. I really don't want to go to law school. I don't want to go to business school.

[Host]

What was his career?

[Peter Polay]

He was an attorney and a CEO for a nationwide company.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

And he was like, well, if you're really serious. And I told him I found a place in Scottsdale, Arizona. It looked fine. You know, I'm looking through magazines trying to find cooking schools back in the day, if anyone can remember back that.

[Martha Polay]

Pre Internet.

[Peter Polay]

Pre Internet. And he was like, well, I have a friend of mine. Let me give him a call and he'll contact you. The next day, Larry Levy gave me a call. He owned with his brother Levy restaurants in Chicago. And they, at that time, they had four or Five restaurants in Chicago. Great restaurants. They've been there a while.

[Host]

I think they're one of the first restaurants in Walt Disney, or I believe so have a location on Disney property.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah.

[Host]

Which Disney standards are. Through the roof.

[Peter Polay]

Through the roof. But then also at this time, he was just getting into sports entertainment, into moving into stadiums as they were getting ready. A huge change. That was a game changer for, for his corporation.

[Martha Polay]

And that was like the fine dining element of that was the fine dining, right?

[Peter Polay]

Yes. And he was like, okay, if this is really what you want to do, you are going to graduate, move back to Chicago, live with your parents. He said, live with your parents. Because I think he kind of knew what I was going to get paid. And, and, and then you'll come work with me for six months. And because that's the prerequisite time of working in a commercial kitchen before you could go to the CIA. I was like, that sounds great. What's the CIA? And then he explained that to me because I haven't come across it in my research at the time. And then so I moved back Chicago, got a job with. With one of his restaurants in downtown Chicago, and I started as a dishwasher.

[Host]

Was it a surprise? Because I think when you're, when you love cooking for your friends, right. And then you actually get into the professional cooking environment, it's not always what people expect.

[Peter Polay]

Oh, no, it's definitely not one to one. It's. It's much different. And it's, you know, it's, I would say, a little bit more energetic and, you know, not negative, but more chaotic than your own kitchen. Yeah, for sure. But he, the chef I worked for there, he right away told me that, hey, this is what you need to learn. You're going to learn from the ground up. And I was like, I almost. I don't even think I was a dishwasher at that time. I was below the dishwasher. I actually had to clean the alley outside the restaurant. And in downtown Chicago, not so great, right? Cleaning all the nooks and crannies, you know, being as clean as possible. And he was explaining why that needed to be.

[Host]

Why does that need to be?

[Peter Polay]

Well, one, especially in downtown. Roaches, critters, and also, like, you don't want, you want to be proud with where you work and the level of food that you're putting out. And that includes cleaning the cracks. Right.

[Host]

I think it's also very humbling in, you know, when you have to do that work and somebody comes in and as you elevate People come behind you. Like, it makes you kind of, you know, you can relate with that person.

[Peter Polay]

You could relate. You could sympathize. You could also explain why it's so important to get their buy in on it. And that's important to get a great job out of people.

[Host]

So did you at any point get talked out of the hospitality industry during this six month period or did you want any even more?

[Peter Polay]

No, not at all. I loved what I was doing. I even, even that work and, you know, putting orders away and checking them in and making sure everything's stacked right and dusting everything. Like, I loved all of it. It was, it was just great for me. And then, and then I got to go to the dish machine and then I got to go to actually prep something for lunch. And then, like, after four months, I finally got to go to the line, which is super cool.

[Host]

Martha, I haven't forgotten about you.

[Martha Polay]

I don't feel left out.

[Host]

So are you at this point in your life, like, it seems like Peter's journey within hospitality started sooner. But you also come from a farm, a dairy farm. You're close to food, right?

[Martha Polay]

Like, well, my. Yeah, my family, I'm like the sixth. I'm the sixth generation member of the Jones family, of which there are now eight generations, and it's meatpacking industry. Okay, so Jones sausage, bacon, ham.

[Host]

Got it.

[Martha Polay]

And so that growing up in a family business, and we're not talking just like brothers and sisters family, we're talking cousins, aunts, uncles, you know, massive family business. And so I grew up basically in

[Peter Polay]

that environment and supplying food service.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah, yeah. And just seeing the, the type of products, the quality of products. I mean, the plant is, you know, I can walk to the plant in 10 minutes from my house that I grew up in. And so it was very integral to, I guess, my upbringing. It was just. I was sort of steeped in it. Like, my grandfather was the president when I was a little kid, and then my uncle Milo was the president, and then my dad was the president, then my brother was the president of the company.

[Host]

Did you ever see yourself working in food your entire career or that come later?

[Martha Polay]

Never. I mean, like, no. I think at one point I thought, oh, I'd be an actress. And then at another point I'd be, you know, traveler doing, you know, Lonely Planet, you know, TV show or, you know, like, no, I didn't think I'd be in food. No, not at all. I mean, and it's just interesting how everything in your past contributes to your Present in some way or another, and then it makes sense. But I couldn't have pictured that.

[Host]

Yeah. I just want to make sure we weren't skipping over anything because I didn't see anything in my research, but I wanted to. I don't want to make any assumptions there. So I'm going to pivot back to people.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah, please do.

[Host]

We'll get back to where you two intercept each other. And I think it was like in Chicago, but real quick. Knowing what you know now, knowing the world we live in now. If you were starting all over, but starting today, would you go to culinary school?

[Peter Polay]

It was really right for me, and I was able to afford it at that time. But I know amazing chefs that started in restaurants like 15 and 16, and now they're running multiple locations. So I don't know, it was really right for me. I really like the basics. I like the regimentedness of the CIA and the knowledge that they gave me. And I thought it was perfect for me. It's not perfect for everybody.

[Host]

Would the CIA have gotten you into work with people like Wolfgang Puck?

[Peter Polay]

The CIA might have got me an interview. Yeah. But then you, after that point, you have to prove yourself.

[Host]

Yeah, I think that, that today, if you have the resources, and I don't think privilege is a bad word. I'm assuming that you got help from your family to go to the CIA.

[Peter Polay]

Correct?

[Host]

Yes. If you have that privilege and you want to fast track. I think the most value in going to culinary school today is the network you're getting access to. Because if you're, if you got it, if you show up, if you're doing good, if you're grinding in. In school, the professors will see that. They will open doors for you, and they will, they will help you surround yourself with the people that can get you to the next step way faster. I think that is the biggest value.

[Peter Polay]

That's a huge value. I would, I would agree with that. Because it's, you know, almost every. Pretty much every business, it's building relationships, and you always want to keep building them because you never know what's going to happen in the future.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

You never know when your paths are going to cross again. That, you know, you might need something from them, they might need something from you.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

So, yes, I think that's. That's a huge aspect of it.

[Host]

So 95 is when you go to CIA.

[Peter Polay]

95 is when I graduated. I went in 93.

[Host]

And you're 25 years old. So you're 28.

[Peter Polay]

27 when I graduated.

[Host]

Got it. And at any point did you ever see yourself, like, was the goal to own, to open a restaurant? Was that the vision? The vision, the mission?

[Peter Polay]

No, that wasn't. I just, you know, honestly, I didn't really think that far in advance. I just wanted to cook. I never saw myself when I was younger. I was very shy, very quiet. I really never saw myself in as a leader. So I was not thinking like that. There are a lot of people in my cohort that, like, it's kind of interesting. That does. Just because you go to cooking school, culinary school, it doesn't mean you're going to be cooking. A lot of people wanted to be critics for some reason. Some people just wanted to be writers. Some people wanted to go into banquet only. Some people wanted to go to a fine dining. Some people want to go to fast food. But at that point, no, I just wanted to get out, get a job and start working.

[Host]

So when did things start to change in you? And at this point you moved back to Chicago. Is this when you and Martha start to reconnect?

[Peter Polay]

Well, I guess reconnect. No, not at that time. Because 95, there was. I had a few more stops in me before I ended up back in Chicago. But we knew each other in 95. We actually met in high school.

[Host]

Okay.

[Peter Polay]

Martha was going to a school in.

[Martha Polay]

Well, I actually met. I met him after college. But like a friend of mine from high school, we all used to go out and play pool together in Chicago. We're just. The three of us would just always go out and go to like Dave and Buster's and play video games back in the day and play a lot of pool. So we were just all friends.

[Host]

Got it. So you grew up in New Jersey or you were born in New Jersey but moved to Chicago later in life?

[Peter Polay]

Well, I, Yes. My dad worked his way. He worked for the Same company for 42 years. And so he worked his way to different areas and corporate was in Chicago. So he ended up in Chicago at some point.

[Host]

So between this point of getting, you know, graduating, knowing that you just want to cook and be in restaurants, what was the next point of evolution for you that got you one step closer to saying, hey, maybe I want to. To do this. Was there a moment of like, maybe I am a leader? Like, when did that start to happen for you?

[Martha Polay]

That was a long after we were married.

[Peter Polay]

Honestly, that's probably started to happen after we had Martha, after we had our first child. And it also is like child.

[Martha Polay]

Actually,

[Peter Polay]

I felt like more of a leader with one Child and then even a bigger leader with two children. Children. Even though I got a lot of my cues from you. But it was like. I think it was that. But I also think it was huge with Martha's creativity and. And just her spirit of knowing that I have her on my side, that I could do something like this, like open a restaurant.

[Host]

You got married in 2003, correct?

[Peter Polay]

2000.

[Martha Polay]

2000.

[Host]

2000. Thank you. So only, like, three years after you. You graduated, you. You were married. When did the conversation of let's open our own place start to bubble up?

[Martha Polay]

2008.

[Host]

2000.

[Peter Polay]

2008.

[Host]

So we're still eight years out from that one.

[Martha Polay]

I mean, I. I would say a conversation like, maybe you should do that was probably. It could have started in, like, 2006, even maybe, like, drop, like, the seeds. But it was like, no, no, no. And then it was really when I stumbled upon the location that everything kind of, like, clicked as. That's when the momentum really hit. Like the seeds had been planted. No, no, no. But then when finding that location for Pasana downtown, it was sort of like, yes.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah. We were always. At one point, we started looking for a location that, like, we would lease a location, and then nothing was coming up. And then, hey, let's buy a location. Because when you look for, you know, houses or commercial properties, lease, purchase, and then still, you know, some things came up, but, like, not the right location. Too much money, too much work to put into it. This and that. And then. And then we're like, hey, what about buying an existing business?

[Martha Polay]

And that was in 2008, when stuff was going.

[Peter Polay]

And then sideways. Yeah, going sideways.

[Host]

So it's a great time to open a restaurant.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah. People thought we were.

[Host]

No, I'm not really nuts, but I'm being serious. I think it is a great time. But if you can make it happen, then it's. You can get things on the cheap. And if you can make it happen, then. Then you know that you have a model that works.

[Peter Polay]

Right. And you don't. You know, a lot of the restaurants at the time, they were doing really well, and they, you know, you know, when your numbers are so inflated and so large, like, you don't need to really worry about every nickel, every dime, every dollar.

[Host]

Revenue solves a lot of problems.

[Peter Polay]

It really solves a lot of problems. And. And so we started when the economy wasn't great, but we were very conscious. We started with as little staff as possible, buying as little as possible. So learnings that, you know, we started. We didn't know any better. We didn't know when it was good.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

So we. We started, like, very small and as small as we can and built from there.

[Host]

Got it. But from 2000 to 2000, you moved here in 2006, correct?

[Martha Polay]

2000.

[Peter Polay]

2003. We moved here from LA in 2003.

[Host]

So in the period from you graduating in 97 to. Or is it 95 when you graduated?

[Peter Polay]

95.

[Host]

So from 95 to 2003, you. Oh, my goodness, you were traveling all over Las Vegas, Chicago.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, L.A. i graduated, I moved back to Chicago, got a job with the Four Seasons Hotel. My first hotel experience. And that was amazing. That was a lot of fun. That was a good time. I was there about a year, and then I was looking for something else. And Levy Restaurants had an opportunity in Las Vegas, So I moved to Las Vegas to work in that restaurant. The Dive, it was called. It was like, didn't you open that restaurant? An upscale sandwich shop, I think it was just when they were opening, I moved into that, and that was my first management position.

[Host]

Okay.

[Peter Polay]

So huge opportunity for me. Las Vegas is Las Vegas. It's not my real cup of tea, but it was a lot of fun. It was a good time. I enjoyed it, and I learned a lot. There was this before Martha. This is before Martha. Pre Martha.

[Martha Polay]

Well, Pre.

[Peter Polay]

I made a lot of mistakes.

[Martha Polay]

I knew him when he went to learning. I mean, I had known him when he moved.

[Peter Polay]

We already knew each other.

[Martha Polay]

Because I'd be asking our friend Bill. I'm like, well, is Pete in town? Let's get Pete to play pool. And then he's like, no, he's in Vegas opening up the dive. I mean, this is what I remember. I'm. Whether you're opening it or just. Just, you know, working there, I guess

[Host]

what I want to get out. I want to make sure. Is there any point before, you know, you came here in 2003, 2008, five years later, you're opening your own restaurant. Is there anything that you did you think that most sets you up for success with opening restaurants as, like, an operation chef?

[Martha Polay]

Okay, let me just talk for a second. So when I started dating Peter, it was in 1999. We were married in 2000. Like us. Yeah, we were. We, like, June 26th, engaged, you know, February 13th. So, like, those are the dates.

[Peter Polay]

I love it very fast.

[Martha Polay]

But we had known each other since probably 95.

[Host]

Got it.

[Martha Polay]

Like, so. But he was working at Spago in Chicago, and he was the kitchen manager when we started dating. And he was gray in color. He was working kitchen manager, banquet. I mean, like, banquet manager me. Like, he kept being the glue that, like, plugged all the holes in the ship, like. And So I. Maybe 70 hours a week. I don't know.

[Peter Polay]

He was working at least. At least a lot.

[Martha Polay]

A lot. And it was sort of like, maybe it's time to retire, you know. And so what did you.

[Peter Polay]

But that showed me, you know, that showed me every experience I made. I feel like you come across times where you have to make a decision. Where do you go from here? And, you know, looking back, I made all the right decisions. Was I 100%? Probably not while doing it, but, you know, you have to make a decision that you think will be the best for you. And all the decisions. Even though I might not have liked one restaurant or didn't have a great time there, I learned a lot there, and it got me on my path to where I needed to go. So I made a lot of decisions. I was at Spago Chicago, and I actually got my job there because I worked at Grenada in Malibu during my externship from the CIA. And two of those chefs, Wolfgang used to gather chefs from different restaurants to open up a new restaurant. So a couple of those chefs I worked for, and they were opening up Spaghetto Chicago, and they're like, hey, we need a pasta cook. You should come. You should, you know, interview. So I interviewed, and I got a job there. And then I was there for just about three years. And, you know, all of my experiences there, purchasing, managing people managing. A lot of people managing prepless, opening up their catering division. Wolfgang brought his catering division to Chicago. I helped him open that up, open up two more locations. One at University of Chicago and one at their. One of their schools in downtown, one of their buildings. And, you know, it's all great experience. You just have to be a sponge all the time.

[Host]

Well, I mean, kind of like. Like skirting around it. But I think there's something to be said about going to work for really great restaurants and then going to work for a restaurateur who's opening a lot of restaurants, but specifically helping them go open restaurants. Because opening restaurants and running restaurants, two completely different.

[Peter Polay]

Two completely different things.

[Host]

So I guess what I was hoping or we're looking for is, was there a point where you think that being a part of opening restaurants, or were you. Were you actually a part of the opening, or were you more about the team building and system implementing?

[Peter Polay]

Oh, I was with team building, system implementing, and, you know, just like, organizing drive Storage. How do you space manage that? How do you utilize every inch without being cluttered and without not being able to function? And at that time, I was like, hey, maybe I could be on, like, an opening team for a company that just goes around and opens restaurants all over the country or even the world. It'd be a lot of fun. But you'd be traveling a lot and, you know, relationships and stuff might be a little bit more challenging at that point. And I love traveling. I love going as many places I possibly could, and. And to see all the different cultures around the world is just, you know, it's an experience that I think everyone should have, especially coming from America, because we think we have everything right, we deserve everything, and we should get more and more of it.

[Host]

Was there one culture that really opened your eyes? I'm just curious.

[Martha Polay]

Curious.

[Host]

I have one.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, there's probably a few. Vietnam was huge for me. And in the, like, the outskirts of the big cities, we would travel, and we saw a family, like, three generations. The. The younger girl was very young. Really wasn't helping a little bit.

[Host]

All on a scooter at once?

[Peter Polay]

No, not at that time. In the cities. Yes. No. They were making rice paper wraps in their house in the front yard.

[Martha Polay]

Oh, right.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, they were making rice paper wraps. One person had the slurry, the hot slurry with, you know, wood fire underneath it, and a pot that they probably been handed down from generation to generation. And then they would spread it onto a bamboo sheet, and then they'd put it on their roof to dry.

[Martha Polay]

Wow.

[Peter Polay]

And they were making, like, rice paper wraps that we see in cellophane here.

[Host]

That perspective shift for me was Thailand, I think Southeast Asia. Their ability and what they value, community. It's a lesson to be learned.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah. And then the quality.

[Martha Polay]

The quality and the beauty of.

[Peter Polay]

And then, like, they're very happy and they're very. You know, family is hugely important to them. And just the quality that comes out of, like, I had my best croissant in Ho Chi Minh City, for sure.

[Martha Polay]

It's.

[Peter Polay]

I mean, yeah, you know, you think Paris, but it's like the French influence, But they are so exact all the time. And they very much care. It's like. It's just amazing. And then we would go through markets, street markets, and in a bamboo basket, you would see all the little baby bok choy, just perfectly put around, organized, circular. And it's like they care in every aspect of the way.

[Host]

Can you believe we've been recording for almost 40 minutes? It goes by fast.

[Martha Polay]

But it does go by fast.

[Host]

So I. I do love everything, but I want to make sure we get to 2003. You moved to Asheville. Five years goes by, you start. And then you start thinking, we're going to open a restaurant. But there was a period where you were build. You were doing like. What were you doing from 2000 to 2008? Were you working in Asheville as a chef?

[Peter Polay]

No, I moved here. And right before we left la, I was thinking about getting into real estate.

[Host]

Okay.

[Peter Polay]

Being a real estate broker, selling houses. So when we moved here, our daughter, our first child, was about 11 months old. And I knew that I wanted to spend as much time as I could with our kids at a younger age. And, you know, I just knew opening a restaurant or being in the restaurant business was not going to be able to give me that time that I wanted and that freedom I wanted.

[Host]

So you had eight or she was 11. So you had from 2003 to 2008, five years of, like, being there for the child. Like the early, early years, basically.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, the early years.

[Host]

What were you doing during this time? 2003 to 2008.

[Martha Polay]

2003 to 2008? Well, Fedora was born in 2002 and our son Parker was born in 2005. So I guess as being a mom for the most part, you know, I mean, but we were. I don't know, I think it was just a more of a family time. I mean, we had that opportunity to just do that. You were doing real estate?

[Peter Polay]

I was doing real estate. You know, I tried to. You're always at the beck and call and available when, you know, potential clients come in and, you know, I would run and do what I needed to do for that, but I would spend as much time as I could at home and try to work at home and be as much of a part of my children's early lives as I possibly could.

[Host]

Were you just residential or commercial? And residential?

[Peter Polay]

Just residential. I was starting to get into commercial just as I left. But also at this time, like, this gave us. This gave me time to go to our. What we call our farmer's market. Here is where the main area where the produce comes in. It gave me time to go there and speak to people, speak to some farmers. We actually have farmers that come there and sell during the season. And then I was purchasing cases of things and kind of like splitting cases with our friends and having somewhat larger dinner parties and, you know, getting my creative juices and my creative cooking that way. That was my outlet.

[Host]

And back to where it all started.

[Peter Polay]

Back to where it all started. Exactly. And then, you know, I guess I didn't like. I loved the real estate because of seeing people's houses and their tastes. I loved the, the negotiating and the contracts and. But I really didn't like driving people around. I just didn't like doing that. So I was like, this isn't for me. And then, you know, as I was getting out of real estate, we were starting to talk. And, you know, we really loved feeding people, nourishing people, spending like, I would say, you know, some time with people, but not a huge amount of time.

[Host]

Where was your social network in 2008 in terms of what you had built? The roots, the foundation, our social network.

[Peter Polay]

How do we get into that?

[Martha Polay]

Well, I don't know.

[Host]

I guess. What do you mean? So one thing I've noticed today, a path into becoming a restaurateur is with dinner parties, where people start with dinner parties and they're literally just private events. Make a donation, you know, and let us have your email. So your. You're kind of like building like this

[Peter Polay]

list or it was really just friends. Well, having friends over literally just didn't make a buck. No, it was just hung out with our friends and cooked because we had food and I needed a creative outlet and we actually had fun having people over. Right.

[Host]

But if you're listening to this right now, like this path is essentially a pop up. If you want it to be that if you have a home and you have a passion for cooking, you can create a website and you can have a friend. Hey, you're welcome to come back. But if you come back, you need to bring a friend, Right?

[Peter Polay]

Correct.

[Host]

And then there's things you can do to build your reputation, to build your relationship. So if you do that for two years and you're doing a dinner party once a week, you now have a list of 2,000 people that you have reputation rapport with. And you can have a brand and like the name of your website, a

dot com, and do all that and host the events.

There's. And you can do it legally if you do it. Like there's ways to make the do that legal.

[Peter Polay]

Of course. Yeah. And a lot of people do that now. It's, you know, getting into a restaurant, into a space is quite expensive.

[Host]

Right.

And maybe they stop there because it fills their cups.

They get to make a side house and make some money and do what they love.

[Peter Polay]

Right, right, exactly. And then it's like it's a whole different ball game. From the house, a pop up 10 to 20 people to even if you want to do large scale catering, 100 people, 200 people, like, that's a huge step. But having a restaurant where you have all the additional overhead, the build out and then all the employees, like, that's a huge step and it's just not right for some people.

[Host]

Right. So you exited the industry. Your lovely wife Martha sees this property and says, wait a second, there might be something here. You have your real estate background. So kind of take us to that moment was that was the conversation of buying a restaurant. What happened first? Like, like, how did we get to the point where you were even looking at property?

[Martha Polay]

I think it was me. I think that I could tell Peter wasn't really happy with the real estate thing. And like, I have memories of Peter when like, of Peter in his socks in the kitchen, cooking and literally like sliding around. Like he's having so much fun. Like, it's just kind of funny a picture, like that's where his mojo was. And it was so obvious. Not in real estate. And so I think it was me. And see the reason I brought up, like, how kind of burnt out he had become at Spago, it wasn't because Spago wasn't a great place to work or a great learning. Learning environment. I mean, and it's in just what you guys were talking about a second ago with like the off site catering. I mean, he had experiences there where he would cater events for 900 people at an off site. I mean, that kind of experience you get from working in different kitchens is invaluable when you go to open your own restaurant, because you've had that experience of what it takes to do something like that. But that break that he took in 99, which was a really short break because he hopped right back in with Larry Levy. And that's how we ended up in la, working at Dodgers Stadium.

[Peter Polay]

Staples.

[Martha Polay]

Staples Center.

[Peter Polay]

Staples.

[Martha Polay]

Where's Dodger Stadium?

[Peter Polay]

That's the LA Dodgers. Oh, okay, that's in la, but Staples center was first. And then when the Staples center kind of like when, you know, the King season, the hockey and the basketball season are over, the stadium quiets down a little bit. It's mostly events and concerts and stuff. But then that's when actually Levy Restaurants and Wolfgang Puck were partnering to do the renovated Dodger Stadium. And they had, they had suites, they had a private restaurant in right field. And then they also had a specialty area underneath behind home plate where like, only the people that had those seats right there behind Home plate got to go into that area. So since I know both restaurateurs and so well, and, you know, they brought me in there just to help out.

[Martha Polay]

So that's. So there was like a departure to kind of, like, recoup and, you know, just. He left Spago in 99 and then. 99.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah. And then in spring of 2000, we were. He moved to LA. We both did, and was there for, like, three months helping launch that. And then Asheville came next in 03.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, next.

[Martha Polay]

So.

[Peter Polay]

But the conversation, I think you saw how. Yeah, it wasn't. I wasn't thriving in real estate.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah. My point was, it was like, in. When we were living here, let's say it was like 2005, 2006, probably 2006. 2006. It was like, wow, this man needs a change. Like, let's get the socks back on. Let's get him sliding around the kitchen.

[Host]

Your kids are only five and three, right? So you go, yeah. You got out of restaurants because you were afraid of that balance, right?

[Martha Polay]

For sure. Like, it was. Well, not. That's how he stayed out. I wouldn't say it was like, easier to stay.

[Peter Polay]

Easier to stay out and to try to find something that, you know, was like, I thought I liked and I wanted to explore and I thought it would, you know, in la, you sell a place, like, you could live pretty good. Asheville, not the same. Like, the median house here is pretty high. It was like, well, now it's high, but back then it was like 300,000. So if you sold a house and you got like one and a half percent, like, you weren't living very long on that. So it. I made enough to get by, for us to get by and for me to be able to spend as much time as I could, you know, with Martha and raising the kids.

[Host]

So this location, you decided to buy it?

[Martha Polay]

Well, there was a restaurant. So the first restaurant pretty much anyone would go to in Asheville was called Cafe on the Square. It's. It's just. You can't help but walk into this bump into this restaurant. It had recently changed names and then it went under. And so I was like, wow, like, that restaurant for sale. We can buy them out of their lease. I'm like, it's like one of the

[Peter Polay]

best locations just for the lease. And the location, was it Posano?

[Martha Polay]

No, it was called Martha Nell's, which has nothing to do with me, but it was. It was literally the first, like, Cafe on the Square was kind of this iconic downtown restaurant. In Asheville, that came about. I mean, I think they opened even when the Fine Arts theater was the not so Fine Arts Theater. Like I think it was a peep show in the 80s when they opened. And so it really went through a whole up like a whole bringing up of Asheville as like a destination.

[Host]

Got it.

[Martha Polay]

And so when that location became available, it was kind of like, how do you not seize that opportunity?

[Host]

And how long was it available before you saw the opportunity?

[Martha Polay]

I think I saw it right when it came up. Maybe it had been up a week or couple days.

[Peter Polay]

They closed around Christmas time the year before in 08. They didn't put it on the market until January, mid January or something. And then, you know, that's when we were actively looking and that's when we like started looking at businesses to buy. And then that popped up and that

[Host]

was a short run. And that's when you saw like they could be someone's exit strategy, meaning you could be someone's way out. Like you. So you like this. So when this business went under, you went in. Did you operate it under that brand?

[Martha Polay]

No.

[Host]

Okay.

[Peter Polay]

No. They were already closed for a while. We wanted to open our own brand. We wanted to have nothing to do with the past brand. It's. It was, it was closed for too long, we thought.

[Host]

Right.

[Martha Polay]

And it wasn't even an established. Martha Nels was open for maybe eight weeks or something before they. It. It's like they changed it from Cafe on the Square to this place called Martha Nell's, changed the menu and it. And 2008 happened and their concept didn't lift off. It kind of plateaued.

[Host]

A million one different reasons why that didn't.

[Martha Polay]

I don't have no idea.

[Host]

Right. But it was an opportunity.

[Peter Polay]

You.

[Host]

You strike at the opportunity. Any advice on how to negotiate a deal like that? Like what was the deal? What were you getting into?

[Martha Polay]

We were buying them out of their lease. We were getting their equipment and we are taking over the lease. As I remember it, you don't own

[Host]

the property today, do you know?

[Peter Polay]

We don't.

[Host]

So you were just. You're. You're taking over the lease. Was there any negotiation or was it a fixed lease that you were taking over?

[Peter Polay]

Well, at that time, they. The person that owned the property at the time, very nice Southern gentleman, he allowed the lease to be assigned to us.

[Host]

Got it.

[Peter Polay]

So we kept that lease until it ran out and then we negotiated another lease after that.

[Host]

That lease that you signed, it was pretty much a new lease. Right. Because they didn't Last that long?

[Peter Polay]

No, it wasn't because it was assigned to them too.

[Host]

Oh really?

[Peter Polay]

So it was actually the old lease. So it was, it was a lease technically from like 95.

[Host]

Got it.

[Peter Polay]

And they had extensions and we were at the very end of that last extension.

[Host]

I'm sure what that lease looked like on paper in 2008 isn't anything like what it would look like today. So I don't know if it makes sense getting into the numbers of what that looks like in terms of.

[Peter Polay]

Well, well, it's interesting though because that, that gentleman bought that property out of at a time when property was relatively inexpensive in Asheville. So he was, you know, he made enough money from all the different tenants he had that his rates were very reasonable for the tenants. And we really appreciate it. He made enough money that he was happy with it. He didn't raise the rates like everyone else around us.

[Host]

We need more like property owners like that.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah. And. But he also, you know, in commercial real estate, it's very odd to get just like a per. Per square foot rate. Most of the time it's square foot plus maybe a percentage rent, plus maybe cam common area maintenance, plus taxes and insurance. So there's a lot of add ons that add. That add up quite a bit.

[Host]

And these weren't a part of your.

[Peter Polay]

Wasn't a part of it. It was just like at the time when we moved in, I think it was 19 a square foot.

[Host]

So look for those. How is it basically is what I'm hearing.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, the add ons are very, you know, it adds on a good 30% to your rent every month. And you know, you just need to make sure that you're aware of that and that, you know, you add those into the numbers of what's really fixed every month.

[Martha Polay]

And I would say, and this is not my wheelhouse, but I'll talk as if it is, but he can correct me. But it's sort of like when we were negotiating different leases in different places like in Charlotte or wherever. It's sort of like we're not lululemon. Like our margins aren't like they are on say Spandex. And so when someone wants like what 5% or.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, percentage rent is like now a big thing that like they all want like, like they want at least this amount of money which equals 5% of your gross revenue. But then if you, if your rent goes to like 4.7%, they still want the rent to be at 5% so they want more money at the end of the year. Which, you know, maybe in like a neighborhood shopping district that, you know, they put in a lot of marketing and advertising to bring people in there. That's one thing. You know, I could see that being added value. But like in a standalone place or in, you know, just an office building, you know, and you're the only place there. Like I don't. Everyone wants just more money. Yeah. And you just have to, you know, negotiate your way to come to an agreement that you like.

[Martha Polay]

Would you agree that there is an argument to be made for people who are negotiating leases? Is there an argument to be made that you should not charge us as high of a percentage on our revenue as say Lululemon because our margins are not as high?

[Peter Polay]

Well, I always. Yes, for sure. Like you should get, if there's a percentage rent, you should get that as low as possible.

[Host]

I mean, I think there's an argument there because it's the restaurant that's going to add value to that cash community. Right.

[Martha Polay]

It's, it's going to bring people to

[Host]

the true shop always. The what will bring people. Right. And more times than not, the restaurant is not the, the complete beneficiary of the elevation of a community. You know, like the, the land owners, the property owners benefit from the elevation of that community. The, the, the dirt literally becomes more valuable because of the restaurant.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

Yes, for sure. 100%.

[Host]

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[Peter Polay]

There's different classes of office buildings. So like the amount of work we put into our original location, that itself elevated the building of what class it was. So now the landlord wants to charge you more rent because they're in a different class.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

But it was us that did it.

[Host]

I don't know if a lot of

restaurant owners are kind of aware of that. And I think it's good to have integrity, dignity and know, know your value because it should be known like restaurants are what change communities, relationships and like it creates jobs for people. It's, it's all that, you know, what were the biggest challenges from 2008 to 2009? You opened in 2009, correct?

[Peter Polay]

Right, we opened in 2009.

[Martha Polay]

May of 2000.

[Peter Polay]

May of 2009.

[Host]

Took over the lease of what, January? About four months. Five months, yeah. So did you have to raise money? Did you put a lot of money into this?

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, well, we put a lot of money into it for sure. But we renovated it like as little as possible to, to get it to look the way we wanted to get it, to get the theme, to get the ambiance to. And also back then we wanted to

[Martha Polay]

be

[Peter Polay]

the first green restaurant in North Carolina. Certified green restaurant. It's important just because I know I was into recycling, I was into not really composting because don't have a green thumb, at least not at that point. But I knew how much the restaurant goes through and how much waste carbon footprint restaurants add, you know, to the, to the earth that I wanted to be as green as possible. And in LA say we've already saw a bunch of green restaurants.

[Host]

Yeah, there was a movement happening and

[Peter Polay]

there was a movement happening. There was a green restaurant association. I'll just say plug to them that they were a third party person that, you know, raided restaurants and came in and made sure that you were following their, their protocol and at least hitting the top and walking the walk.

[Host]

Got it.

[Peter Polay]

And hitting certain benchmarks in energy usage, water usage, gas usage, recycling, composting, reusing materials which is the best way to lower your carbon footprint.

[Host]

So you're not just getting the restaurant space ready for your brand, but you're also outfitting it to operate to your standards of quality and values.

[Peter Polay]

Quality values and yes, sustainability, for sure.

[Host]

Did you have to raise money?

[Peter Polay]

We were fortunate enough we did not have to raise money.

[Host]

So was there just. Is this all happened through savings or through.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, savings. And then, yes, my parents came in a little bit and helped us out.

[Host]

So friends, families, fools, route the way when. If you can go that way, go that way. No shame there. I. You know, that that's the way to go. That's where you start. How much do you have to raise to get open?

[Martha Polay]

I don't even know back then.

[Peter Polay]

Well, purchasing. Well, we were pretty fortunate with purchasing. I still had my real estate license, so I actually got a percentage of. Of our broker's percentage that we hired to. To purchase a property. So that was helpful. But just purchasing, you know, the old business was about $150,000.

[Host]

Okay.

[Peter Polay]

You know, it's not. It's a good amount of money. It's not a huge amount for having that location.

[Host]

And then how much do you have to put into it on top of that to get open?

[Peter Polay]

We put in.

[Martha Polay]

Do you remember?

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, it was about another $350,000.

[Martha Polay]

Wait, are you talking about, like, just from turning Martha Nells into, like, Pasana or like the Doug renovation?

[Host]

Just shy of 500, 000 is what it took to get open.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah.

[Host]

Which by today's standard, is really low.

[Peter Polay]

It's extremely low because we had. We also used all their equipment that was already there.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

They had the hood system, they had, you know, disposals. They even had. They own their dish machine. So I didn't even have to lease that or buy that, which is a huge expense. We had to buy glassware, plates, china, silverware, the renovations, and then of course, all the. All the food and the product after that.

[Host]

So what was the biggest challenge in that first year, year or two? How did you grow the most? How did you transform the most?

[Martha Polay]

Well, there were just. From my point of view, it was like we went from. I went from, like, I turned into a single parent, basically, because he was at the restaurant all the time. And in the beginning of this conversation, he said. Said. We started out really small. We had no managers.

[Host]

So what was your opening staff?

[Peter Polay]

We actually had a. A chef.

[Martha Polay]

Chef. No, you were the chef at first, weren't you?

[Peter Polay]

Oh, no, we were a chef. And we had two dishwashers, five other line Cooks. We actually had a pastry department, so we had two people there. And then we had about. We were only open for breakfast, so. And lunch a couple of days. So we. We had about 15 more front of the house staff, but I was technically the GM executive chef and front of the house manager. Front of the house manager. Doing everything seven days a week.

[Host]

Yeah. I mean, if you don't have. I think that's how you start. Right. And then you elevate yourself out of those. Those roles.

[Martha Polay]

Right.

[Host]

So by. So what was the biggest challenge? And say from. Looks like from 2009 to 2016, things kind of were what you were. And then by 2016, things start to change.

[Martha Polay]

Okay, I would. I would make a correction on that. I would say from 2009 to 2012. 13. Well, two things happened. One, we first, like, the concept kept changing. We kept pivoting.

[Host]

Was it a struggle in the beginning? Why was it changing?

[Martha Polay]

Well, because. I don't think I'd use the word struggle. We. We opened with breakfast and lunch.

[Peter Polay]

What I'm really, like, focusing on beverages and coffee. But they had a kitchen. They had a large space. I was like, we need to sell food to be able to afford this place. It's just too big to be, like, we only a coffee breakfast place.

[Martha Polay]

But we had dinner. It was. We had dinner Thursday, Friday, Saturday, when we opened in breakfast and lunch the other days. So basically, we realized. I don't know what year we realized, 2010, 2011. We realized that lunch was a public service.

[Peter Polay]

Well, breakfast was extremely a public service, like losing money every day. And then. And then after that, we closed for. For breakfast. And then we started looking at lunch, and they're like, lunch isn't taking off the way we wanted it to take off. We're right in the middle of downtown. We have the bank building right across the street from us that also has 14 floors of attorneys and all different types of offices. And all the attorneys were walking by our restaurant at lunchtime to go to a sandwich shop and then bring their food back to their desk and eat there. And we're like.

[Martha Polay]

I mean, it would feel.

[Peter Polay]

Really thought we were gonna get.

[Martha Polay]

But it would feel busy. Like, our customers thought, like, we were doing great. Right. Because it felt really busy, but you needed to feel really busy two more times, not just that first turn. And so we kind of identified that it was more of a dinner spot, really. That was where we were capturing the

[Peter Polay]

revenue and the customers, capturing the most customers. And of course, you know, dinner is just. More people drink at dinner, more People have multiple courses.

[Host]

When you opened, your breakfast and lunch and dinner.

[Martha Polay]

Dinner three days a week. Thursday, Friday, Saturday.

[Host]

Got it. That's a long day.

[Peter Polay]

It's a very long day. I did have a very comfortable couch in my office.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

That I napped and I actually slept at.

[Host]

Yeah. So how long did it take you to figure out who you were in terms of what you want to focus?

[Martha Polay]

Well, I'd say one thing that you learn really fast in the restaurant industry is you can think you know who you are, but your customers are really clearly going to tell you who you are. And that is kind of a way to. Because when we opened for breakfast and lunch, primarily of that, like, vibe with dinner three nights a week, you know, people thought we were a coffee shop for years. And I would say some of the journeys we went through were having who we were match with how we looked. So in a way, I think we did a big, big renovation in 2012, 13 time period, because it was like the quality of our food, like, the quality of our service did not match our ambiance. And there was a big disconnect. And I knew that it had a lot to do with the lighting. Like, I really didn't like the way the lighting made you feel when you were in that space. It didn't have that intimate see. It didn't make you feel like you were being held. And so we found a designer who's really. His specialty is lighting, and he helped us transform that place to what it is today. And then the atmosphere matched, the food matched, the service matched, the price point. Matched the price point, and then everything gelled. And at that point in time, we were doing dinner five, six nights a week and brunch on the weekend. Then Covid came, and when we reopened, we opened with just dinner five nights a week. And that's because of the. The crew. You need to. To do dinner six nights a week and brunch on the weekend versus just one crew dinner five nights a week. And it was brilliant.

[Host]

The great resignation didn't allow for it,

[Martha Polay]

but it was a. It was a good. It was a good thing to come out of COVID Like, we learned how to run a leaner, like, infinitely more profitable machine. I mean, our brunch was really profitable.

[Peter Polay]

Like, even though our total revenue went down that first year, but our profit went up.

[Host]

Yeah, I think, like, how dare I suggest that COVID 19 was a blessing in disguise? But I think in many ways, it kind of was. It broke a lot of bad habits in the industry. Out of the Necessity. But I think we're slipping back into a lot of those bad habits right now.

[Martha Polay]

What are you seeing as those bad habits?

[Host]

Just kind of going back to the grind. Anything and everything to survive at the cost of balance. Fear based decisions.

[Peter Polay]

And yes, we have been thinking about opening a sixth night and bringing back brunch downtown.

[Host]

Right.

[Martha Polay]

Did you really? Did you really?

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, we've been thinking about it just to get that revenue higher.

[Host]

Right? That's a fear based decision.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, that's. Well, it's fear based, but it's also

[Host]

like, it's a valid fear. You know, like we gotta, we gotta salt your. We gotta solve those problems, right? We gotta turn on the frontal lobe. We gotta do more. But it can be a trap too.

[Peter Polay]

You know, it could be a huge trap. And, and that's why we're not just jumping into it. We're really, you know, we're running the numbers. It's not just fear based. It's not just like this is what we want to do or like, like we need, we need a higher revenue because everything's costing more. So we need more money to come in. And. But at that time we might be spending a lot more money. So at the end of the day we'll be.

[Host]

So I want to get into that, but I want to Talk about this 2012 renovation, primarily on lighting. So you, you.

[Martha Polay]

Well, lighting is where it started.

[Host]

And so you put bringing actual like lights fixtures.

[Martha Polay]

Okay, let me just, let me just pause you. Okay, so it started with lighting. Like that was the impetus. It was like the wrong vibe. You didn't feel good in. Well, I didn't feel good in there. And I felt like you felt too. Like maybe you were a diner in LA that you can see everyone in every bent or every whatever, too exposed,

[Peter Polay]

too open, too open.

[Martha Polay]

So that was the impetus for the design. But we closed. This was the, the most miracle thing that ever happened, I think as far as I know.

[Peter Polay]

We had this discussion with Doug Stratton in January and then he's our designer.

[Host]

He's the lighting designer.

[Peter Polay]

He's a lighting designer, but he's also an interior designer. Interior designer. Like he, he could do it all. And he. And then we closed in May and in Asheville, it's very like you really want to take the opportunities of when people are in town. So between there was every weekend or every May on Mother's Day weekend, that's when UNCA has their graduation. So we knew we needed to reopen. They have their graduation. So no, we knew we needed to be open on Mother's Day because it was a huge day. We closed right after Mother's Day brunch. And then we knew we had to be open for Memorial Day because that's a huge weekend in Asheville. So we had about 12 days to renovate the entire place.

[Host]

So lighting.

[Martha Polay]

Okay, lighting was just where we needed to start. But what happened was we gutted the whole place. We gutted it.

[Peter Polay]

Gutted subfloor to the ceiling.

[Martha Polay]

Wow. Yeah. We.

[Host]

12 days.

[Peter Polay]

12 days. We ripped 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Like it was non stop, but it was like they designed it. The GC and Doug, they worked very well together and they had a lot of the stuff already made and they were just trying to do that today, installing it. But no, that's why like it was very important at that time. We really needed. We thought it was, you know, it was a big project for sure, but we thought it wasn't big enough to get like one of those larger company construction companies that, you know, they, they do things by schedules. They take months and months and months to do anything and this and that. So we used a local guy, all local subs. And he actually used a lot of his family because they do different aspects of, you know, building and, and the gc, he organized it so well. That and everyone at. Now I know that everyone. We were paying everyone a premium because they needed to be on call. Yeah. Because we might not be ready for painting until 11pm we'll let you know when we're ready. Yeah, and we'll let you know when we're ready. But you need to be walking out.

[Martha Polay]

But it works.

[Peter Polay]

It worked. We actually, actually opened on that Friday of Memorial Day weekend. We missed our mark by 30 minutes. We opened at 5:30 instead of 5.

[Martha Polay]

Cuz we were hanging pictures.

[Host]

Yeah. So wow, that's crazy. That was 2012. Did you open, did you change your hours up with the reopen too to focus primarily on dinner?

[Martha Polay]

We had already been down just to dinner.

[Peter Polay]

We already changed at that point. We already changed to the six nights and the, the, the two brunches.

[Host]

Got it. And then how did this change? Was there an instant like line in the sand where post renovation that there's a different uptick.

[Peter Polay]

There was business. Yes. Well, we also opened at the beginning of summer where it's much. We're very seasonal in Asheville. Still that yes, it was a large uptick. But like all of our customers, they were spending more money in their nest. They were buying a second glass of wine or Maybe a bottle of wine because they wanted to stay, because it made sense and we were giving them it. We were giving them the experience before we did the renovation. But now it all made sense. It all just like gelled and came together. That like, this is the place you come into. You have a cocktail, you have your appetizers, you order a bottle of wine. And you know, that kind of the whole atmosphere added to that.

[Host]

So the first three years was just trying to figure out what is our sweet spot, what is the market market want us to be and how do we optimize being that.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah, we kept. I guess you'd say we kept. We were fluid. We were really fluid. I mean, it's like I would say that flexibility might be too rigid and sometimes you get hard, really hard data in your numbers or people are like, oh, you mean that coffee shop? You just hear stuff that is like, no, dude, we do dinner six nights a week or whatever. You know, paying attention. It takes a long time to re educate people. Like I would really say, try to be as clear as you can with what you want to do on the outset because there is a huge cost in re educating. And I don't even just mean financial. I mean there's just, it takes a long time to get through to people of what you are.

[Host]

Right. You got to constantly communicate it in everything you do. I don't think this has come out of the conversation yet. In 2009, did you open as a 100 gluten free operation?

[Martha Polay]

Yes.

[Peter Polay]

Yes. We were also, you know, while we were opening a restaurant, coming with concept, trying to be green and trying to certify green and adding up all those points, we also decided to be 100% gluten free restaurant. So that's a huge science project in itself.

[Martha Polay]

Did you say wow or why? Well, I have celiac disease. And he brought it up. He said, I think this should be 100% gluten free. And I was a little mortified because at that time, most gluten free experiences in restaurants were abysmal, like borderline dangerous because people weren't. Yeah. Or you just got the most. You got like lettuce with no dressing and like chicken with maybe salt and pepper. I mean, it was just, it was horrible.

[Peter Polay]

And there wasn't enough knowledge around it either and I guess enough willingness or confidence to not look at it as, oh, I'm missing out. Now I'm cooking with one arm tied behind my back. But like, how can I make something so good that it doesn't? No one Notice that it's gluten free.

[Martha Polay]

So Peter had always been, like, you heard from the beginning, really into cooking, really into going to farmer's markets, getting what was freshest. And so, so often our dinners were naturally gluten free before I even had to be gluten free. Because eating farm to table, in a lot of ways is gluten free. You know, I mean, obviously, if you're bringing in a baguette or something like that, but your food doesn't necessarily have to have gluten in it, and a lot of times it doesn't. You go to a steakhouse, doesn't have gluten in it, you know.

[Host]

Right.

[Martha Polay]

And so I was a little mortified that it just had to be so good, it went unnoticed. It had to be that kind of quality of freshness, of taste, texture.

[Host]

The reason why my mind went here is because I'm thinking breakfast gluten free is, like, tough because when people think breakfast, they're thinking, like, indulging, you know,

[Peter Polay]

like hangover French toast, pancakes.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

Like eggs Benedict with English muffins.

[Host]

Almost like every plate has bread on it, you know, so that must have been a challenge to be gluten free and breakfast.

[Peter Polay]

Oh, it's a huge challenge. But. But, you know, we. At first, we had some decent recipes, but not good enough. So we. We shied away from the bread, even.

[Host]

We actually, you know, like, because so

[Peter Polay]

many people want us all handhelds and stuff. Yes, we did shy away from that, but we had a great pastry team. We kept experimenting, and we ended up with a really great bond that, you know, of course, now is. It's even more different now because we just keep learning.

[Host]

Well, that world has come so far. Gluten free is delicious now, and you

[Martha Polay]

don't end up having that coma. So, you know, like, you can actually feel good.

[Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Peter Polay]

So we came up with hamburger bun with focaccia with brioche. And then we learned ways to. To make those consistently all the time because they're. It's literally a science experiment all the time because of the way they hold moisture, that if it's a very hot, humid day, it comes out different than if it's a cold winter day that's dry. It's thoroughly insane. So, yes, we learned. We learned a lot very quickly. And, yeah, we opened up gluten free and, you know, a small southern mountain town.

[Host]

So what happens? And, like, what's the. This is a huge point of evolution for you up to this point in 2012. Reinventing, listening to the market. Figuring out what the market wants you to be and then rebrand. Not rebranding, but redesigning to meet consumer demand. 2012 to 2018, that four year. Sorry, six year period, you really started to like, ramp up things. It seems like, like you're expanding. Growing. You specifically, Pierre, removed yourself as the executive chef, right?

[Peter Polay]

Well, no, well, remove myself from daily operations of the kitchen.

[Host]

2016. Jordan Harris. Thank you very much. So he wasn't the executive, he was like the sue.

[Peter Polay]

He was a chef de cuisine.

[Martha Polay]

You got.

[Host]

So I guess what's the next point of evolution for you? Like, what was the next point of, like, growth?

[Peter Polay]

The next point of growth was, you know, we had a Persona at a, at a good spot. We had great employees. We, you know, over time, we had enough managers that I wasn't, I wasn't needed for day to day operations.

[Host]

So your growth was internal?

[Peter Polay]

It was internal. And we very much brought people up from within. Jordan, he. We brought him in to be chapter cuisine. He wasn't internal, but he has grown internally since then.

[Host]

He joined in 2010, so yeah, he's.

[Peter Polay]

And so now he's our director of culinary for Mandara Hospitality Group. So he oversees all the kitchens and he is tremendously helpful in our work outside of the restaurants. Outside of the restaurants that we own. And so at that time, I felt like, you know, restaurateurs, you know, when you're passionate, you're crazy. Like, it's not enough with just one. It's not enough with the business we have right now. I want do something new. I needed more creativity.

[Host]

Was this a mutual feeling?

[Martha Polay]

Yeah, but I came about it from a different angle.

[Host]

What was your angle?

[Martha Polay]

My angle was when he tried to renegotiate the lease for downtown and they weren't willing to renegotiate our next extension. And I'm like, well, I guess we should look for a second location.

[Host]

But you stayed there, so you came to terms.

[Martha Polay]

Well, we, we. It's still.

[Peter Polay]

We're still negotiating, but this is even before that because we opened up the hotel before that.

[Martha Polay]

Oh, right.

[Peter Polay]

We started doing consulting before that.

[Martha Polay]

I just wasn't sure what part of.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, which part. Which part of our evolution we were

[Host]

on because how would you say you grew the most during this, this period from 2012?

[Martha Polay]

The rebrand consulting, for sure. That was awesome.

[Host]

What were you consulting on?

[Martha Polay]

Multiple menu developments at hotel. We did like the AC Hotels menu.

[Peter Polay]

We did the Ashes. So wasn't that the first? The Asheville ac. So a hotelier came into Asheville. He already Had a couple of hotels he was managing in East Asheville. And then he opened up. He went into partnership with one of the building owners downtown that owned a couple of properties. And he was going to open up a very nice hotel and also so a more upscale hotel, full service and then an AC hotel. AC Marriott. And it was supposed to be one of the first Marriotts to come to the United States or the acs to come to the United States. And he was a customer of Pasana. And at that time I was very interested in growing and having more, more places, more locations and maybe even different themed locations, different types of food. And I know that he was speaking to restaurateurs about the full service hotel that he was thinking of building. So at one point I just asked for a meeting. He started asking me questions. I asked him questions about the project and this and that. And he was really, he always had a great experience at Posana. And he was, I guess, impressed with the level of service that we have, the way the place looked, the quality of the ingredients and the food and the consistency. And that was at such a high level that he actually brought in most of his executive team to come meet the two of us and learn about us.

[Host]

Okay.

[Peter Polay]

And we told them about our, our history, our story, everything we've done. And they, you know, after talking a little bit, they hired us to consult on the food for the AC hotel.

[Host]

Got it.

[Peter Polay]

Because they were going to open it up on their, you know, the acs. I don't know if everyone knows here, but the acs have a very brand specific food that they have to offer for breakfast. They also have very specific at that time, very specific for dinner if you're going to open up for dinner. But he actually opened up as like almost a third party restaurant for dinner.

[Host]

Got it.

[Peter Polay]

And since he was mostly select service hotels at this point, he brought Mandara Hospitality Group in to consult on training their staff on the standards of the brand. But making it his own and making it better because he, you know, traveled around, tried a few of the, of the hotel brands, restaurants and food. And you know, at the time he, he wanted something a little bit more elevated.

[Host]

His little fingerprint on it.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, his fingerprint on it.

[Host]

So what year was this?

[Martha Polay]

2017.

[Peter Polay]

I think it was 2016. 17.

[Host]

Got it. So this is the next point of evolution in terms of another channel of revenue, the consulting.

[Peter Polay]

Right.

[Host]

Martha, where were you at this time? Because when in 2009, Peter was more hands on, you were more behind the scenes. Behind the scenes.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah. I did all the photography at that time, and there's just ways that I show up that you might not see directly as a customer.

[Host]

The creative eye, the design, the.

[Martha Polay]

The.

[Host]

The arts.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah. And just navigating humans.

[Peter Polay]

Humans. And then, like, problem solving how the. How the customers interact with what we do.

[Host]

Got it.

[Peter Polay]

The feel of the silverware, the glassware, the ambiance, the website, the marketing, like, all that stuff that. The tactileness of Pasana and what makes Pasana at a different level than.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah, I wonder, like, how, like, the way I. I approach a restaurant is. I start with how I want people to feel when they sit down, and it. It's all through that felt experience. And so that dictates the decisions I make.

[Host]

Your title is Chief Creative Officer.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah.

[Host]

So what did. What falls underneath that umbrella?

[Peter Polay]

Pretty much whatever needs. Yeah. Even, you know, we even bring her along to pick out plates. And definitely silverware, for sure. Glass. We're like, it's not that we don't have a budget, and it's not that we're buying the most expensive of everything. Martha helps us, guides us to, like, the level that we want our customers to experience. And it's mine and Jordan's responsibility to negotiate a good price so we could afford that experience for our customers.

[Host]

Got it. What words do you want to put to that, Martha?

[Martha Polay]

I don't know if I have any. I mean, I don't know.

[Peter Polay]

Martha's. Martha's creativity is boundless. It really is. And. And, you know, there are certain things that we were able to experience during our travels that were just unbelievable. And it's like, we want our guests to have that same experience. We want our guests just to have a great experience here. And, like, do we want a wine glass that. You could feel the lip on it.

[Martha Polay]

It.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

No, we don't, because that's not what we want our customers to feel. So.

[Martha Polay]

And I think it's. I think the other thing I notice a lot of times is what you don't want, you know, and it's hard for me to actually. I mean, I can think now of, like, when I walk in the bathroom and I see sort of this, like, confetti experience on the floor because the paper towels aren't feeding the right way. And so it's this tug of war people are having.

[Host]

And it's so avoiding those points.

[Martha Polay]

Like, it's like noticing them and like, like problem solving them. It's like just it. Which isn't necessarily creative. You know, it's not like. But it is it's like, but she's

[Peter Polay]

not here day in and day out for hours a day that she comes in with a new set of eyes almost every time she comes in here.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

So she, she points out things that we almost get accustomed to and used to and like, oh, yeah, that's all right.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Martha Polay]

Yep.

[Host]

One thing I'm curious about. You are way ahead of the gluten free curve. So, like, I started this podcast in 2013, and I remember by 2017, 16, like 18, like that, like in that period, it was like this huge, like, movement of having a gluten free menu and having a gluten free, like just like service.

[Peter Polay]

Correct. Like, or being aware of it to be able to accommodate.

[Host]

Exactly. It was huge. Like, like blue ocean. Like, if you're, you know, if you're, if you cater to this need, there's a lot of business for you. You were so ahead of that curve from that 2012 period where you really dialed in who you were to this 2016 period, 2017, 18 period, where things really start to ramp up. Did your business also, volume wise, do, like, were more and more people grabbing to you because of what you offered and what you specialized in?

[Martha Polay]

I think most. I think it's kind of important to know. It's like we never really started talking about our gluten freeness as a marketing point. It was just something you knew just through a grassroots kind of thing. It wasn't it. We didn't do it for marketing. It's like our menu had to be outstanding. People had to want to eat there because the food was great, period. And if you didn't ask what was gluten free on the menu, you might not have known. If you're just one of those people who was like, well, I guess I'll have the Caesar, no croutons. And if you just sort of troubleshot the menu without having a conversation with your server, you might have missed out.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, yeah. And we did. At that time, we did have a lot of people ordering burgers and sandwiches. No bread and things like that. And just because we didn't advertise it even, you know, my dad knows our restaurant. He's very familiar with it. He loves it. But he's the kind of person that he wouldn't go into a restaurant if it was gluten free. Yeah, he just wouldn't.

[Host]

It's a generational thing.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah. And he just wouldn't. And we didn't want to lose all those customers right away because, like, you know, yes, gluten free it's getting larger. More people have celiac. More people, more people just want to avoid carbs. Choose, try to avoid that. Yeah, but we're not a carb free place.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

You know, we make our own buns. We make everything, you know, pasta, gnocchi, everything you could possibly imagine. But it's like it's still a very, very small percentage of the people that go out to eat.

[Host]

Right. Did that ever change when things started to, like, where you saw that there was a market for gluten free? Were you a little more outspoken about it or did you always.

[Martha Polay]

We've just started to weave it in more. I mean, we've always won like best of WNC for special diets or whatever. We've always won that award, which. Catering to people with dietary needs. But no, because I'm, I mean, I feel like, like it's not necessarily necessary. I mean, it is on our website, you know, a designated gluten free kitchen, things like that. But it's, I think when you put yourself in a box, I hate being put into boxes. And if you're a gluten free restaurant, then maybe you're not a great fine dining restaurant or a great casual fine dining restaurant or a great, you know, all of a sudden you're, you're this one thing and, oh, the food tastes

[Peter Polay]

like this because of. It's also preconceived notions. When people come in, like they're, you know, they're expecting a certain thing.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

And you know, if they know that gluten isn't in it, they will start analyzing every little thing and just, you know, psychologically find stuff that they're not happy with because they're missing out or they think they're missing out.

[Host]

Got it. So, so Fast forward to 2016. Unless there's anything else you want to touch on. So you start exploring into this world of consulting. What was your agreement like with the hotels? What was your, what is your advice for people who want to enter into that world? Is it licensing? Like, what are you doing? Like, what is that agreement?

[Peter Polay]

We're always trying to find ways to better represent ourselves and also feel like we're getting, you know, paid what we know we're worth. And that's very hard, especially if you help other people that want to be restaurateurs, because most of those people don't have a ton of money depending on what market you're in.

[Host]

So you special. Sorry, go ahead.

[Peter Polay]

So. But with the hotel, like they, the hospital, the hotelier, they actually agreed for us to Become partners in the restaurant of their, their full service hotel, which ended up being a Kimpton hotel. Got it. And so they actually put us on, on a monthly retainer to help them open up the ac and then they just kind of kept us there to revamp recipes and, and do things like that. It was very unconventional, extremely generous of the hotelier. But usually you want to try to start, get into a project that you could see an endpoint. You could see someone that is knowledgeable enough and has enough experience that they could take over the operations when you leave. It's the hard point when you're, you're working with people that are brand new, that don't know the restaurant business, that have a brewery that wants to offer food like that endpoint could be very blurry because they just don't have.

[Host]

There's nobody there that's going to own that.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, part of it's a brewer, but

[Host]

that's not the same as being an executive chef. You need to have somebody there who's

[Peter Polay]

going to own it, own it and then be able to take over the operation when you leave. Otherwise it could kind of drag out and you know, you agree to a price. Now it's taking four months instead of two months that you agreed on just because of, you know, stuff happens. So the restaurant business is not just like a perfect science.

[Host]

Right. So that, so that this first. I don't know if it was the first deal you entered into, but you were getting paid, you're on a retainer. So like kind of. But you also had equity in the business.

[Martha Polay]

That was, that was the first project.

[Peter Polay]

No, not, not at the AC Hotel.

[Host]

Okay, when did that opportunity, opportunity to come?

[Peter Polay]

Well, that, that was the first opportunity. The AC Hotel was our first, was the first opportunity.

[Host]

When did they offer you equity?

[Peter Polay]

Well, they were. So when they were opening up the full service hotel, that.

[Host]

Which is not the ac, which is

[Peter Polay]

not the ac, which is the Kimpton Hotel.

[Host]

It was the same hotel year.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, same hotel. Got it. Yeah. Hotel groups could go with any flag.

[Host]

Got it.

[Peter Polay]

So they, they ended up with Kimpton, they went to Marriott, they went to Hyatt. They like Sheridan, like, and then they, that was when like Sheridan and Marriott were really joining together. And they didn't, they felt what they were putting into the building and the decor of the building and how, with how much localness they were bringing into the building with artists and with our restaurant and stuff. They, they ended up going to Kimpton and we, the hotelier himself ended up partnering with us with all the food and beverage.

[Host]

Got it. And this was after the first trial run. The ac. There was success. And he wanted to bring you in on another project.

Correct.

And that was 2018.

[Peter Polay]

That was while we.

[Martha Polay]

We opened.

[Peter Polay]

We opened in 2019. October 2000. September. October 2019. So. But we were helping design.

[Host]

So you were getting owners pay equity in the actual. Just a restaurant. So you was the restaurant treated like a sub, like its own entity underneath the umbrella of the hotel that you had equity equity. Like. Like, how do you even evaluate that?

[Peter Polay]

No, you. Okay. So we were leasing the space from the hotel.

[Host]

Okay.

[Peter Polay]

And then we ran it as a restaurant.

[Host]

Okay.

[Peter Polay]

But we were very commingled with the hotel because we had to do room service. We did the liquor cabinets in the room, we did the banquets. We. The brand standards that they needed to abide by that were food and beverage related. We needed to offer also.

[Host]

Got it. It. So they had the. The real estate. You were the operating partner of the collaborated concept.

[Peter Polay]

Correct.

[Host]

Got it. And did they own equity in that restaurant too, or did you own the restaurant?

[Peter Polay]

No, not the hotel group, but like the owner, the founder of the hotel group, he partnered with us privately. Partnered personally. Personally.

[Host]

So you're business partners?

[Peter Polay]

We were business partners. 50. 50.

[Host]

Was he mostly like the financial partner?

[Peter Polay]

He was part. I mean, yes. He also had, you know, he had some thoughts and suggestions and. And great insight for sure, because he's been in business much longer than we have.

[Martha Polay]

But he. He was really generous with, like. We knew this hotel was his, like, last great project before sort of of retiring. And so when we were designing it, it was like we knew it had to be of a level that was

[Peter Polay]

like his piece de resistance, his. His final song, his swan song. Like, so we, you know, we. But we also have. I have a good amount of hotel knowledge. I also have a good amount of, you know, just mass producing food knowledge, working in the stadium. And we really developed a great. A great brand, multiple brands. We created great menus for, you know, it was hard for us for the banquet menus because they needed so many different menus for so many different types of eating and this and that. It's like Playbooks. Playbooks. But it was like. But it had to have. You had to know. It was personized.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

And it came from us. And so it was. It was way challenging. We learned a heck of a lot.

[Host]

Hospitality by any chance, is it?

[Martha Polay]

No.

[Host]

No. Okay. Because I was just curious because, you know, Phil. Phil Bulhoffer referred you to me and I know that he's with Parks hospitality. So I was just wondering, maybe he was just admiring the work that he's. You're on his radar, you know?

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, yeah. Parks, they do a great job. Yeah, they do a really good job.

[Host]

Yeah. So at what point, I mean, did you have like the most brands underneath your umbrella? You had the Persona location two.

[Martha Polay]

Well, I guess that was 2019. I mean, because Covid hit like right after four months, five months after we opened Bargello and District 42. And that was crushing.

[Host]

Right?

[Martha Polay]

Those brands were. I mean, they were two of my favorite things I created. I mean, I really felt attached to them. And then just have Covid come in and then we had to immediately pivot like, because we're now we're doing like Mandara market and having people come and pick up like pre made dinners and stuff because it's Covid and people aren't like going to the groceries, you know, it's like it just changed everything. It blew up everything.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah. And we had. So we had still a few people staying at the hotel. Long term residents, like they were in town that for business and they were traveling every weekend to go back home and then come back during the week.

[Host]

I can't imagine being a long term

[Peter Polay]

hotel resident at Covid. They just said, you know, we can't travel, it's too hard. We're just going to stay at the hotel for three months. They were there every day for three months. So they became residents. So we had to feed them because they were in a hotel room, there's no place to cook. And we also have condos up above, so we had people living there.

[Host]

Right, but that's not paying the bills.

[Peter Polay]

No, it didn't pay the bills. No, no, no, no. It didn't pay the bills at all. That's why, you know, we at those two locations, we had about 120 employees.

[Host]

Right. times like this, the restaurant industry, you're more of a first responder than you are a restaurateur.

[Peter Polay]

100.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

First responder. Because even, you know, unfortunately we had to terminate all of our employees so they could get unemployment because we couldn't afford them. But we were still feeding them one meal a day. Our staff. Yeah, we still let them come in, grab a meal and then take it home to their family. You know, we were still giving them family meal.

[Host]

So I'm assuming because you're talking past tense, that these two concepts that you worked on had were shuttered with the pain.

[Martha Polay]

No, they're still open. We exited.

[Host]

Okay.

[Peter Polay]

We exited. It was a Great experience. We wish it could have worked out for us. I was working way too much and it was. I guess we didn't put enough guidelines into our management, our agreement with the hotel of exactly the way it would work.

[Host]

What guidelines would you put in knowing what you know now?

[Martha Polay]

Can I say one?

[Peter Polay]

Of course.

[Martha Polay]

Okay. So. Because hotels like to book a lot of rooms when they book their event space, you know that even though we were responsible for the rent in the event space floor, you know, that was the second floor. We. We couldn't sell it.

[Peter Polay]

We weren't responsible for selling it. They had their own sales team.

[Martha Polay]

So there was sort of a conflict of interest because they didn't. We could sell that space left and right. We. We know what we can do based on our own experience. Like we could have sold that space, but they didn't want to take it sort of off the market unless, say 20 rooms went with it. And that wasn't really clear how operationally that worked in the hotel business that makes sense. Do you know that? But then maybe we don't cover that.

[Host]

They're making their money on the rooms and they want leverage.

[Martha Polay]

They want the freedom to be able to book when their party. You know, like if someone wants to come in for a.

[Host]

It's like having a private dining room that we're sitting in right now that you can't use use unless.

[Martha Polay]

Right, but we were. But that was part of our rent.

[Peter Polay]

Right, but that was. Yeah, that was, that was the biggest thing because we had like, we'll do an event tomorrow. If someone has, you know, a celebration of life that, you know, all of a sudden comes. Comes to pass that like we could do an event that night. We don't care if we sell rooms. We want that event. We want that to be special for the people that need it to be special. And we lost, like I finally got into the books and they actually turned down 99% of the inquiries because of. They didn't want rooms. But it was all supposed. They brought us in because it was supposed to be like for locals.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

Owned by locals. For locals. So that would hopefully bring in more people. Asheville has a crazy relationship with, with, with corporations and brands and outside people and hotels. So bringing in and also tourism, which,

[Host]

you know, I think that seems to be the, the developer play right now where they're really pushing to get local restaurant tours into new developments. Like mixed use development spaces.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah.

[Host]

All over the country, which I think is great that they're bringing in local business.

[Peter Polay]

I do think it's A win for the local business, not just the developer.

[Host]

But do they, are they offering equity? Like, are they selling them that space? Are they tenants? Right.

[Peter Polay]

Oh, they're tenants for sure.

[Host]

Right. So I think that's the thing. It's just like it's, I don't, I think part of the game of being a restaurant tour. Yeah. You can lease, but the real game, the asset building is owning the dirt. Right. And, and teaching people how to develop assets. And also if you're, if you're bringing, if you're the value of that space, if you're bringing the value, you should be a beneficiary beyond your baked in profit, you know that, or your owners pay. There should be some other.

[Peter Polay]

I see that and I, you know, it's, I see that. I feel that developers that are spending multiple tens of millions of dollars to develop a space aren't going to want to do that.

[Host]

They have all the risk.

[Peter Polay]

But I think, you know, maybe negotiating a better lease.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

Or at least negotiating a better tenant improvement allowance because of what you're going to bring to it. And like, yes, if you have a really great restaurant and it's rentals or condos above or even an office building, you might be able to get, you might be able to sell out faster, you might be able to rent all those apartments faster because you have a great restaurant below it. It. So yeah, they're not going to, most likely they're not going to want to share the profit with you. But maybe you can negotiate something else.

[Host]

Right?

[Peter Polay]

Free parking or a better, better lease or something like that.

[Host]

I think if you know that your presence in that building brings upwards of $2 per square foot of additional value, then they should share.

[Martha Polay]

I always think they should.

[Peter Polay]

They should. Yeah. But you need to bring it up, right? They won't bring it up, but you

[Host]

got to be aware to know that that's the game.

[Peter Polay]

Yes.

[Host]

It hinges on your presence.

[Peter Polay]

Yes. And you could also, you could literally negotiate anything.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

The restaurant owner needs to, needs to know that you can negotiate anything.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

And it's just business. It's not personal, it's just business. You're trying to get the best deal, you're trying to get a win. And you know, if you, if what they're presenting you, your numbers don't work, you know, you're gonna have to spend some more time and find a different place.

[Host]

Just had a conversation with Ryan Turner. I don't know if you know Ryan Turner from Suke Restaurant Group or Concepts. I can't remember the Full name of the restaurant group. But this idea of stepping into our dignity, we all have dignity, we're all entitled to dignity and we step into it. It's not something we ask for, it's not something we're given to. We inherently all deserve dig dignity. Right. And I think part of helping people step into dignity is creating awareness in your value. Right. So all this stuff is so, so important because if we're going to change the what's broken with the industry, it means being aware and stepping into and claiming what we need to survive. Right. And to create opportunity for others. I mean I don't want to put words into your mouth but this is really valuable stuff.

[Peter Polay]

Well, it's huge. And it's also like, I think, you know, even though restaurateurs especially that are like chef restaurateurs, they're so passionate, they, you know, so called ego, they think so highly of themselves in their food but sometimes they're not even self promoters.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

They don't like to talk about themselves

[Host]

or they'll work for free or they'll take any deal because they just have those blinders on and they finally own a restaurant and it's a shitty deal

but they're, they got their Esco.

[Peter Polay]

You need to self promote yourself especially at that negotiating table of your lease.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

Or when purchasing a property because you know that's, that could make or break. It's almost, it's almost more important than checking all the food that comes in the back door.

[Martha Polay]

I think that also brings up a really important point that we all, we used to struggle with a lot and it's sort of like you can take for granted the gift gifts you naturally bring to your business as just like you don't realize that it's special.

[Peter Polay]

Right.

[Martha Polay]

There's certain choices you make and things that you make. And I remember when we hired our first PR people to help us, there was just lots of stuff we weren't even mentioning because like we, it was,

[Peter Polay]

we just did it.

[Martha Polay]

We just did it.

[Peter Polay]

We just did it day in and day out because we thought it was the right thing to do. But like some people out there really think about it's important so you need to tell it right. And we just never did.

[Martha Polay]

Part of your story. Yeah. And so it's kind of like knowing like the lengths you go to to do what you do and being able to call those out as value points

[Peter Polay]

and know that it makes your, your space and you as a company special.

[Host]

Yeah, I think that's one thing. Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

Go ahead No, I was just going to say special and important and like that also differentiates you from someone else down the street.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

So that's really important. That's helpful.

[Host]

No, I think this all ties back into dignity, knowing. But in order to be dignified, you need to know your worth. Right. And I think this stuff helps us all become more self aware. I can't believe we're already almost at two hours. Did I tell you it wasn't to go by fast? I hope it felt like going by fast. I don't need to wrap it up if you have places to be. I, I want to respect your time, but is there anything that didn't come out of today's conversation that you want to make sure we talk about? Because I'll stay as long as we need to to get what you want to get out.

[Martha Polay]

Well, I'm not sure what would be of most benefit to your listeners that we didn't touch on, but

[Host]

one thing that came up that I wanted to circle back to was this idea of where you are today, of really just being intentional about, about slowing down and, you know, finding that balance. So I guess where are you today? Paint that picture of where are you today?

[Peter Polay]

Okay, so where I, where I am today is right back where I was when we opened. The hotel.

[Martha Polay]

Yes.

[Peter Polay]

The restaurants, this. Okay, so this location where we opened,

[Host]

it's in Second Persona.

[Martha Polay]

Second.

[Peter Polay]

Second Persona. It's in South Asheville. It's very residential. So we're at a different demographics than downtown, which is mostly tourism. And we're in a town square. We're in like a walking retail condo hotel area called Biltmore Park Town Square. And you know, this lease requires us to be open for lunch and dinner every day. So now we're back to 14 services a week. 11am to 9pm, 10pm every day. So like 10, 11 hours a day we're open. So I'm technically working more than I was, you know, when we had one restaurant and we just had, you know, five nights a week.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

But I have set it up that I know that, that my time off is important. I know that I need to recuperate. So I probably have more staff right now than I need. So I'm making less money, but I'm happier. Yeah. And I have time to travel, I have time with my family. I have days off that, you know, I can have them when I want. I have, have in my hospitality. In our hospitality group, we have a director of operations, we have the chief culinary officer, we have a bookkeeper and we have like a social media, digital marketing. Marketing all around. No, that is Tanya all around person. And so yes. Are they probably expenses that a hotel group that has two restaurants should have? Probably not, but my life is better for it.

[Host]

So you call yourself a hotel.

[Peter Polay]

Hospitality groups should have with two. Only two restaurants. Are you some consulting gigs here and there. But like we probably shouldn't but we do want to grow. We do want more restaurants. We're looking for more locations in different and different concepts within Asheville and then we're also looking to spread Posada to different areas.

[Host]

I think that's something that's. That's important that people have to understand. You have to build your. You got to build your home before you move in it and you have to build your family before you move into the home. And you know, call it. You know, people don't. They like putting a. I guess a divide between the people you work with. Don't call them family. You don't call them team. They're know it's. It's business. But at the end of the day they're. They're the people that choose you and you choose them.

[Peter Polay]

Right.

[Martha Polay]

100.

[Host]

They're your tribe. Call it whatever you want.

[Martha Polay]

Right.

[Host]

And you have to develop them and build that team to be able to do the next thing.

[Martha Polay]

Totally.

[Host]

And what is.

[Martha Polay]

You need that in place. You. You. You need those people in place that it is like the infrastructure which will support you as you move forward.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Martha Polay]

All those people. And I would also, also add to where we are now. You know, I would say we had Pasana one as this finely tuned machine like totally dialed in 100% and you can think you'll have Pasana number two completely dialed into 100%, but it's like everything's different in a way. And there are learning curves that show up that you didn't necessarily even know

[Host]

or the world around you changes.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah. Oh yeah. That's always. That's always true. But you know, and so there's. There's the whole way of navigating and like how. How do we need to adjust and pivot and put things into our training manual that apply to this neighborhood that are different than downtown. Right. I mean, isn't this all accurate? Even though.

[Peter Polay]

Correct. Yeah. And it's. And then also opening a new restaurant, we noticed here, like back in the day, a lot of hourly staff wanted the newer, brighter, shinier penny, so they kept jumping from place to place as they were opening if they thought it was good enough for them.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

So I kind of thought that was going to happen here, but we actually ended up with probably some of the people that couldn't get jobs other places.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

Or that were trying to step up from the type of restaurant they were in to a nicer restaurant.

[Host]

First restaurant you open, post pandemic in the. The great resignation is real. You know, there just aren't the same amount of people out there looking for work.

[Peter Polay]

Right, right.

[Host]

So.

[Peter Polay]

Right.

[Host]

So.

[Peter Polay]

And the quality of people. And we have noticed that, you know, we've been very fortunate. We've had a lot of people apply here. Extremely fortunate. They just take a little bit longer to groom.

[Host]

Because you're building them from a blank canvas.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, a blank canvas. Which, you know, in one way is great, because they don't have bad habits.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

And they don't have knowledge of how they did it there. And they kind of. They're used to that. They don't want change, even though they want a change of location and space. But what they do day in and day out, that they know already, they don't really want to change that. But. So it takes a little bit longer with those people. But, yes, we've had blank canvases come in here. It's taken a little bit longer to get them up to where we want them to be as staff, service staff, offering experiences, knowing the menu, being extremely knowledgeable. Like, we're not the. We're nice people, but we're not the easiest restaurant job that anyone's gonna have.

[Host]

High standards.

[Peter Polay]

Very high standards. And, you know, we love constant, gentle pressure.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah. There's an ode to Danny Meyer. Okay.

[Peter Polay]

And so, yeah, it's. You know, we've only been open six months, so we have come so far, and our staff is amazing. And. And we see it in the reviews, and it's great to know that we all came through this journey together, and our staff is. They're becoming to what we have downtown, which is almost 17 years old now, but we're only six months. And it's really just unbelievable.

[Host]

Yeah. There's so much reward in elevating other people. That is the. The purest form of hospitality is. Is. Is caring enough being warm and generous enough that you're willing to literally transform an individual and elevate them. It's one thing to offer a meal and to give you some shelter from the storm, but to, you know, teach it. What is the expression? Teach a man how to fish and then. Yeah.

[Martha Polay]

He'll eat forever.

[Host]

Yeah, exactly. And, like, I think that is the. The purest form of Hospitality of caring enough to literally elevate somebody. Because that's a life, that, that's a transformation, you know, that's like, that's a long time commitment.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, they have those tools the rest of their lives. Like they could, you know, not that we want to lose people, but we know people are going to leave and people are going to want more and people are going to want better things and whatever else. And this might even just be, you know, for them to get through college or some type of school because they really want to do this instead. But it's great to know that like they'll leave Pasana, hopefully representing Pasano very well wherever they go. They'll have more wine knowledge, they'll have more liquor knowledge, they'll know menus and farms and you know, what we think is proper service and just being able to speak to all the different types of people that come through here while still bringing out who they truly are. Because that we want their personalities to come out here.

[Host]

I love that. So what is the vision? What is the future? Where are you going

[Peter Polay]

ultimately? Even though, like I'm at the age you want to start thinking about retiring, I want to open more Personas in different areas. Asheville. We love Asheville. Asheville's like the most perfect place for us to live and for us to have opened our restaurant and to grow. But the city of Asheville still has 80,000 people in it. And Buncombe county, the county that we're in, has 225,000 people. It's a very small demographic. We want to go someplace a little bit bigger, you know, not Chicago bigger, but like maybe Charlotte, maybe Greenville, maybe, you know, Raleigh, Raleigh, somewhere else in the state. We, we really think the state's great. We know it very well. We know the liquor laws. It's. I think it would just be easier for us to open up another place in a different city in this state.

[Host]

Why another Persona and not a new concept?

[Peter Polay]

Well, I think we would love to do a new concept here in Asheville,

[Martha Polay]

but I think this is a great brand. Honest to God, I think it's really, really great.

[Peter Polay]

It's a great brand. We have, you know, we're not huge on the national publicity, but we have some. We are a drive destination. Asheville is a drive destination. So we have people from all over the state and within like four or five hour drive coming here. So they already know us. And you know, like we could open

[Martha Polay]

in Nashville, like if we wanted to and probably Atlanta.

[Peter Polay]

Do Atlanta, but like, so we already have, you Know, we already have some record name recognition in the Southeast. So we think, you know, that would be people would more, you know, developers would like to have a well known brand already.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

To open up in their space and then from there we could spread our wings and open up different concepts throughout their city.

[Martha Polay]

I mean people have always asked us to open up in their towns, you know, that come for the weekend or certain times of the year and people have moved, they've. They've made a decision to move to Asheville after eating at a restaurant. I mean I'm not talking a lot but maybe a dozen people in 17 years. It's like the one, one thing that helped them make or break their decision of Asheville versus and it's probably because they had the dietary need to, to do so.

[Peter Polay]

I mean for sure 100.

[Martha Polay]

But I think it is really special when you can have a party of eight where one person needs to be gluten free and everyone has an amazing dinner. You're doing something right. And I think that's a brand that you can take to other markets and it's a niche market. I would highly recommend anyone wanting to go into the restaurant business to have two fryers to go to that expense. So you have a designated fryer for doing gluten free. It makes a huge difference to probably a small amount of people. But it's like the happiness that it. I mean like the degree to which I'm happy when someone has a designated fryer. Just so I.

[Host]

Peace of mind.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, huge peace of mind. And we've also noticed over the years that someone will come to Asheville for vacation that has celiac or has a dietary restriction that they can get ill from. They find pasana. They're there every meal the rest of their trip.

[Martha Polay]

It's crazy. Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

They'll even come back to Asheville a second time because they know they could eat well and not get sick while they're on vacation and enjoying family and stuff. So you know, if you're going to do it, do it really well.

[Host]

Yeah, definitely a huge opportunity there. So we now know what your vision for yourself is. What is the vision for the future of the industry that you want to see. How do we move into that future intentionally?

[Peter Polay]

That's. We're going to get into tipping and fair wages and all that other stuff that, you know, it kind of puts restaurant tours in a hard place. We, we do put a lot of money into the location and you know, especially if you're buying the location, you're even putting more money than if you're leasing the location but you're building out a restaurant. So you do need to make your money back, but you also want everyone to, to thrive at the same time. And I think the tipping system just has to completely get turned upside down. I know it's so controversial now. Some cities and states were forced to completely change it just because of their minimum wages, went up to such a point where any restaurant can't sustain the minimum wage. And also all the tips going to the front of the house and not sharing with the back of the house. But I really think there needs to be a huge, a huge change. And the restaurateurs and I don't think we're greedy. You know, some are, of course, but it's also very hard. And it's not like the margins are that big.

[Host]

Right. Yeah. There needs to be a new business model. Yeah, we're exploring those business models at Restaurant Stoppable. I have plans lined up to talk to people who are. It's really about figuring out what are the models that work. I think we have to change the systems within the organization. To your point, eliminating tipping. Right. Everyone moving to like a salary. You know, I think that that is much more, it's much more planable. You know, it's fixed costs. It's less of a variable costs.

[Peter Polay]

It is fixed cost. But then, you know, like when we're used to paying a lot of hourly people, we as restaurateurs, we could control the pay by controlling someone's hours.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

And also the Department of Labor, you know, they have all these rules about overtime. And, and do you fall under exempt, non exempt if someone, that if you put everyone on salary, no one's allowed to work? Well, that's based on a 40 hour work week. So then you're gonna have to pay all of those people over time if they work more than 40 hours. So everyone still has to clock in.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

You know, there's a lot of rigmarole that you need to work by and, and figure out. I have a lot, the best way to do it.

[Host]

I have a lot to learn and I think that there's a lot of good arguments. I want to have more of those conversations, but I do agree that something has to change. Is there any conversation you think restaurant tours should be having with each other going forward? Like what should we talk about? Should we talk to each other and what should we talk about?

[Peter Polay]

Well, it's like, it's, I guess just that, you know, how do we all succeed? How do we all do the things we love to do and that we want to do, which is own restaurants and grow people and invest in people and take care of people at the same time. But we still, like everyone in that still has to make a good living.

[Host]

So how do we do that?

[Peter Polay]

It's hard because we did have this conversation. I don't know, maybe 10 years ago we had this conversation. And of course in Asheville, we have. We're mostly independent. Well, we have a very large number of independent restaurants here, mom and pop. And we have an organization, the Asheville Independent Restaurant association, that we, A lot of us belong to. About 150, 175 restaurants belong to this. So we all, we all talk. We all talk to each other and we all talk about what's the best for the restaurant business. And this is going to be controversial and a touchy legal because like to. To break out of that tipping model, you need a large percentage of the restaurants to break out of it at the same time.

[Host]

Collective effort. It needs to be a slamming or even judicial. Like might have to go to like legal where you might have to.

[Peter Polay]

Because if restaurants get together and say this is what we're all going to do, that's antitrust.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

And we don't want to go there is a collusion.

[Host]

Technically, aren't restaurant not allowed to communicate? Which is crazy.

[Peter Polay]

I don't think they're not allowed to communicate. Like, that's just like you're not allowed to talk to those people.

[Host]

You're not allowed to ban together.

[Peter Polay]

It's definitely an antitrust. It's like a. Almost a monopoly kind of a thing. I don't know these.

[Host]

Even when you're working for the collective. Right.

[Peter Polay]

But you're working for the collective. But you're working for the collective. And it's going to very much change the way all restaurants are run.

[Host]

But isn't that a good thing?

[Martha Polay]

You got to ask the servers.

[Peter Polay]

That doesn't matter. You're.

[Host]

You're.

[Peter Polay]

You're definitely changing the lifestyle of.

[Host]

But if you.

[Peter Polay]

One of a certain group, a certain class of individuals, you're not losing that money.

[Martha Polay]

But I. The way it feels to me is that there's a certain level of motivation that servers get from the unknown. And it's. I bet you it. I bet you if we were, you know, doing all the, you know, brain chemicals that are, you know, it's like gambling. You know, it's like, how high of the tips can I get?

[Host]

How is that hospitality?

[Martha Polay]

It. Well, I think it can be. I'm not saying you need to look

[Peter Polay]

at the motivation of servers.

[Martha Polay]

Yes, you have to look at their motivation. But I think some of them can. I think of, like, our. Our team. And I think some of them would feel a lack of motivation if they were on a salary, even if it was the same amount of money. But I don't think anyone here seems disingenuine with the experience they're trying to give.

[Host]

But what if there is profit sharing? Because you no longer have people that are dependent on tips, but they're dependent on total revenue. And if you have benchmarks and goals and you incentivize people to do better because we all make more money, I think there's ways around it. I'm not to cut you.

[Martha Polay]

Oh, yeah, no, no, no. I'm with you. I'm just, like, going with that.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, yeah, that's. Yeah, that's big.

[Host]

Yes.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah. Like, it has to completely be turned upside down. And also, you know, restaurateurs, you know, we like to make a little bit of money. We're not making a huge amount of money. We're not retiring tomorrow. But then that's also asking. We're asking something of the employees. So the owner should give something too, for sure.

[Host]

I apologize for cutting you short, Mark.

[Martha Polay]

Oh, I don't feel cut short at all. I don't feel cut short at all. I. I just jumped onto what you were saying.

[Peter Polay]

So when we open, when we reopened Pasana in downtown, after Covid we reopened. We reopened with the model of tip sharing the entire house, the front of the house staff didn't like it because they felt like they were going to end up with less money, which, yes, they did. Not much less. Probably like 10% less, but then less

[Host]

money than they would have made or

[Peter Polay]

they would have made because we were giving them.

[Host]

But they were still making 20% more than the back of house, at least.

[Peter Polay]

Well, no, but speculating, no, because. Okay, so around covert, the payment laws, labor laws changed a little bit, that as long as you paid your staff minimum wage, the restaurant or the business could technically do, disperse the tips any way they want. And in doing that, like, it's national, it's whatever your minimum wage is in. In your town. It's different all over the country, but we had everyone at, like, between 10 and $14 an hour, depending on their experience, where they are. And then we also had, you know, a percentage of the tips go to the front of the house, a percentage go to the back of the house, and then within there, it was split between, you know, what department you were in and then also the amount of hours you worked. The front of the house didn't like it because they felt like they were going to make less money, a lot less money. And the back of the house didn't like it because they had no idea how much money they were going to make.

[Martha Polay]

Meaning what ended up happening is they opted out the back of the house.

[Peter Polay]

Both of them didn't want it. But, you know, after the back of

[Martha Polay]

the house was after.

[Peter Polay]

After two pay periods, the back of the house like this. But they still didn't like them, the not knowing exactly what they were going to make.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah, they didn't like the variable.

[Peter Polay]

So, you know, we had a little bit of issues on in both the front and the back of the house. So everyone was unsure, like how it was going to work out. But we dispersed all the tips. We didn't keep any for the house, which some restaurants are doing to help with the expense. And we gave them, you know, a pretty decent amount as a base wage. So the back of the house ended up making a little bit more money. The front of the house ended up making a little bit less money. But technically no one was happy with it. It. So we went back.

[Host]

I mean, yeah, it's not an easy problem to solve. No, but I think, you know, the more on board, the more collective the action is, I think the better our odds. I think it's just like you have 10 different people pulling on this ball in the middle. They're standing in a circle around this ball and everyone's pulling in different directions. You're not going to get anywhere. But if you pull in the same direction, things start to happen.

[Martha Polay]

Happen.

[Host]

You know, I think that's what needs to happen. But I think we need to create space for restaurant owners, not just to talk locally in markets, but to like, then have a layer above that where we're talking, where we're seeing what other markets are doing, what's working in different markets. How do we, how do we share this information? How do we make this one social experiment to make the industry better? And here's the thing. I think if you make the industry better, you make communities better.

[Martha Polay]

100%. That's our whole thing.

[Peter Polay]

Like, that's.

[Martha Polay]

I mean, how, how you interact with your staff and how your staff interacts with your customers. It. There's a ripple effect to that. And so you can really elevate the, the quality of living everywhere.

[Host]

100.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah. I think in the restaurant business here, the hospitality business will include hotels and bars and and fast food and. And, you know, standalone restaurants and. And independents. They're the second largest employer, you know, in the.

[Host]

In the world, behind the government.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah, but.

[Peter Polay]

And so, like, that's.

[Martha Polay]

But you don't.

[Peter Polay]

We could. We affect a lot of people, but

[Martha Polay]

don't forget about the number of people we interact with every day.

[Host]

Influence.

[Martha Polay]

Yes. Like the touch. The touch points for being able to leave a positive imprint, whether it's how you're interacting with the executive team or the executive teams interacting with, you know, the house team, it's just. It all ripples out. And I know that's really important to me because I really think you can leave the world a better place through the quality of your connections.

[Host]

Yeah. 100. I cannot agree more with that. And that's what this podcast is all about, is gathering the information, lifting each other up so we can move in that direction. Who knows where that destination is? You know, we're figuring it out, but these conversations are super important, and I can't do it without folks like you sitting for over two hours now, almost two hours and 20 minutes. So we got to try to wrap it up. Is there one thing you've recently done in terms of technology operations systems, a new thing that you've implemented that's really moved the needle that we should be aware of?

[Peter Polay]

Yeah. We haven't talked about technology you at all in this.

[Martha Polay]

No, but I would say. I would say a game changer for us. We hired someone. I don't know how long ago we hired him who. Who specializes in Google Ads. I think that's been huge for us.

[Host]

Do you know this person's name?

[Martha Polay]

I think it's Dearborn Digital. But he. He only has a small handful of clients, but any. Anyone who specializes in Google Ads. And he, He. It's like, I think we're the only restaurant he does in Asheville. He does other types of businesses. He wouldn't do another restaurant.

[Host]

But that could be a cool, deep dive is to get a Google Ads specialist on.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah, I can.

[Peter Polay]

I think that helped us out. We've. Ever since Helene, we've, you know, obviously, Asheville, a huge decline in tourism and people travel here. But the year after Helene, which was last year, 2025, was actually our best year ever at downtown Pacific.

[Martha Polay]

And so we use Open table as a reservation system. And they, like our rep, reached out to us to be like, what are you guys doing? You're 14% above everyone else or whatever. Percent it was, I don't know, 10%. What?

[Peter Polay]

Well, no, we were 14% of last. The previous year while everyone else was

[Martha Polay]

down and she was like what are you doing differently? And that was the only piece of tech, so to speak I could think of that.

[Host]

Yes.

[Martha Polay]

The ads. And the ads are, you know we can, I mean it's super creepy how that works but you know when someone's seen your ad and they walk in your restaurant like because of your phone they, they know where that. Where you were searching for a restaurant and what you did thereafter. And that's just how the world works these days. And I'd say it, it's worth taking advantage of.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Martha Polay]

If, if that's what you want to do. I mean there's places to spend your money and there's places not.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah. Restaurants have an unlimited amount of places to spend money and you just need to figure out which one is the best for you. You know we use OpenTable here. We went back to open OpenTable. We went, we started OpenTable. We went to Resi. We thought that was great. But then we went back to OpenTable.

[Host]

Why?

[Peter Polay]

Just because we didn't think there was enough

[Martha Polay]

like have to do with the age group too.

[Peter Polay]

There was enough places in town that used Resi. Yeah, it wasn't really a Resi town. It was kind of split between. It was more Open Table. At one time about 30 independent restaurants went to Resi all at one time to try to get that collective proof to go. Yes, it was a lot less expensive but like Open Table who probably has hundreds of millions of people in it now. But then at the same time you start hearing words, you know some talking that 95% of people find restaurants on Google because they just use Google to look for restaurants that are near them and then they from there they might go into OpenTable if they have an account to book it if that's where that is. But a lot of times they just get it from Google so deep it's just what.

[Host]

Yeah. What's the discovery through Google. And then they're using the framework infrastructure technology digital presence presence to then navigate and book with you through OpenTable.

[Peter Polay]

Right.

[Host]

And I have heard that OpenTable is kind of done a 180. They evolve their business model to be more restaurant centric versus consumer centric.

[Peter Polay]

It is and you know they're. Yes, there's. But they've also found other ways to like more add ons.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

That you could choose to get or not get.

[Host]

And yeah, I think everything you just said with the to us is spot on in my only concern. Do do what Martha said. Right. Invest In Google look into tools like OpenTable for discovery. I worry that that is a short term solution that is feeding into a long term game that does not play well for restaurants or society.

[Martha Polay]

Which part?

[Host]

Both. I think Google. Like if you need to spend money with Google or Meta to, to survive. If that's true. But that two companies control that have that much influence.

[Martha Polay]

It's not so much that the two companies control that much. It's how consumers search.

[Host]

But that's the thing. They control consumer behavior. Behavior. Which means they control the. They have. I think 80% of all marketing expenditure goes between Google and Meta.

[Martha Polay]

I know, but how else are you gonna find like how else are you gonna find a restaurant?

[Host]

You're right. That's the problem.

[Martha Polay]

What Right? I mean so it's.

[Host]

If you have no choice but to survive. That's my concern.

[Martha Polay]

But what's the alternative?

[Host]

I mean isn't one. That's what I'm saying. Like that's the stuff that we have to, we have to be aware. Because what you're saying is right.

[Martha Polay]

You're. You're literally going to create a new search engine, guys.

[Host]

Yeah, that's the thing.

[Peter Polay]

Like that's a restaurant search engine.

[Host]

Well, I, I hear what you're saying and I recognize it sounds ludicrous. Absolutely.

[Martha Polay]

It's like City Cheers is creating an app that's trying to do this. Do you know?

[Host]

But I think that we have the technology and we can make a change. We can, I think think OpenTable is a perfect example. If enough people get pissed off. Yeah, you can make a quick change and they're like, oh, we got to adapt. Google Meta, they survive off of one data. Then the second layer is marketing, leveraging that data. If they don't get consumer habits and consumer data, they don't have a business model. Where I'm going with this is the consumer week, not just the restaurant and industry. Consumers need to be more conscious about where they give their time and energy to what apps. I think that is a huge percent.

[Martha Polay]

But let's just put your. Let's don't, don't forget about your restaurant website. And you better be feeding the Google bots if you want to show up on the first page and do not change your first paragraph of text on your homepage. I mean like, because you are going to fall to page three when you change that first paragraph. Paragraph.

[Host]

I agree with you. And it's not good.

[Martha Polay]

No, but like it's not good.

[Peter Polay]

But it's like now it's the game.

[Host]

You have to do What Martha's saying,

don't get me wrong, I'm not trying

[Martha Polay]

to be argumentative, but I'm just, I'm like, where would our webpage live?

[Peter Polay]

It's one of those things. There's, we have an attorney that donates her time to the Independent Restaurant association quite a bit and she's amazing. But it's like a new law that just got passed. If you don't agree with it, do you really want to be the first one to push against it and then get sued and then have to go to court and then, you know, take on all that onus so to adjust something that you're not happy with?

[Host]

So I guess if I can try to connect the dots, how my brain ended up here. Okay, Peter, you said that the restaurant industry is the second largest industry in the world behind the government. If we as restaurateurs can identify that something's wrong.

[Martha Polay]

Right.

[Host]

Then we, and only we can go against the Googles and the Metas of the world.

[Martha Polay]

Right.

[Host]

To convince consumers that if they want to be upstanding, conscious capitalists.

[Martha Polay]

Right.

[Host]

That we need to figure out a better solution. Because the Internet isn't Google. It lives on the Internet.

[Martha Polay]

Right.

[Host]

It is just, it's just a search. You know what I'm saying?

[Martha Polay]

Like, I do.

[Host]

It is not the Internet, but people

do think it is the Internet.

[Martha Polay]

No, I, I get it just pretty much it is the primary pathway we select.

[Host]

I, I, I agree.

[Peter Polay]

And even the computer companies select it. Like it's just automatically there when we,

[Host]

what's the number two search for engine?

[Martha Polay]

Maybe DuckDuckGo. I don't think they're, or no, they're around. DuckDuckGo's around.

[Host]

I know that they're coming.

[Martha Polay]

Are we talking like Firefox as a search engine or like I could talk

[Host]

to you for another whole hour and I want, I, I love the conversation just getting started. I just, I just, I could go further. I just think that nobody's talking about the fact that these companies have so much influence.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah.

[Peter Polay]

I mean, I think they're trying to talk so insane.

[Host]

Right.

[Peter Polay]

It's, we thought when we had yellow Pages and like just starting to use credit cards, the people that sold that data back in, you know, the Stone Age, what is Google and Meta and even Apple and all those Samsung whoever electronics that you use, how much information of yours do they have?

[Host]

Right. How are they using that influence? You, it's scary.

[Peter Polay]

They know you better than you know you.

[Martha Polay]

Totally, all I'm saying is you, I totally agree. You Have a point. I mean, it's very interesting. In the meantime, there are ways you can take advantage of using those tools that we're very conveniently hooked on right now, for lack of.

[Peter Polay]

And you could also choose not to use them. You could choose to use them. $100 a month, $2,000 a month. Google will always say you could have done this much better if you would have spent another thousand dollars this month. They'll always say that. Don't bite. Don't give them any more of your money than you're willing to give them.

[Host]

Yeah, it's all stuff I want to explore more. I just want to have the conversations and poke the. The poke the beast. You know, that's the thing I love the most about this podcast, is you get the poke.

[Martha Polay]

Well, maybe you should talk. Talk to Adam. Yeah, well, he's fascinating.

[Host]

Is he the person that helped you with the ads? Yes, I'd be open to it. I could. Like I said, I really want to respect your time. We're now 30 minutes over. I'm gonna ask you a few questions or short answer will be wrapped up out of here in no time. What's one thing about your business? A value process, a system that's truly uncommon. It makes you unstoppable.

[Martha Polay]

Well, I'd say the gluten free aspect and I, I mean, I think that's pretty unique.

[Peter Polay]

I think it's our people in our culture for sure.

[Martha Polay]

Also, I don't know how many restaurants do this, but really the starting point is how it's going to make the customer feel. And all decisions are based on that. Not a monetary one. And that's just, that's just where we start. It's where everything unfolds from. And maybe that's common, I don't know. But I think it's worth saying, yeah,

[Host]

the mission statement is to change the world through inspiring, empowering, and transforming the restaurant industry. How have you personally transformed the two of you as owners? How are you better today than the people you were when you got started?

[Peter Polay]

That's a tough one.

[Martha Polay]

How are we better today than we spent? I mean, it's definitely helped us grow, really embrace and hold multiple points of view and offer support in so many different ways. I mean, I think your employees, so often you go to the lengths that you'd go to oftentimes with family, not all the time, but like, definitely. I mean, we've bailed people out, literally,

[Peter Polay]

literally out of jail.

[Martha Polay]

You know, like there's just occasions you rise to because of humanity. Yeah, no, yeah. It's like, he needs to be at work. No, that wasn't the motivation,

[Peter Polay]

but. No, we just felt bad for him.

[Martha Polay]

We liked him a lot.

[Peter Polay]

We just felt bad, and it was kind of a stupid thing, but I think, like, I think I think more about other people than myself.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah.

[Host]

And if I pulled one thing out of today's conversation, too, you found balance. Every. At every point of your life, you prioritize balance. It seems like you continue to prioritize that, which I think is really.

[Martha Polay]

Or you lean that way.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah. You lean that way. And you. You know, we very much think it's important for our staff. We.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah. And Peter.

[Peter Polay]

The staff works very hard for us.

[Martha Polay]

Peter's kind of. At the beginning of this conversation, started with how, like, when Covid happened, he was at the restaurant seven days a week and blah, blah, blah. It was like, once he came home, and I'm like, you know, you. You. You might want to stop. You might be sending the message that no one else can stop.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Martha Polay]

You. You know like how he said that, modeling that. And I think the. The other thing to say is, like, when you're. You come home and you're frustrated and you're feeling some intolerance for shit that's going on that you don't like, it's like, well, is. Are. Are they. Are they modeling something you're modeling for, you know, you. You always have to look back at, like, are you setting that example that would help that not happen in. Usually your staff is a really great mirror for your own shortcomings.

[Host]

Yeah. What's fun is that when we write down our core values, our vision, our mission, all the things that you're supposed to do have these cultural exercises. We think we're writing this down for everyone else. But I think the reality is. And what we miss is we're writing it down for us, because those are our values.

[Martha Polay]

Right.

[Host]

Those are the things that I need to do every day. And if I do those things every day, as the leader, everyone follows. So to your point earlier, Bounce. I'm not doing the things that our core values say. Like, I need to force bounce.

[Peter Polay]

Right.

[Host]

Because if I'm not doing it to your point.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah, yeah. And if someone. If you're seeing someone not be accountable to their department, it's like, well, are you being accountable to them? Are you modeling what you want them to model to their team? Are you putting in the boundaries and expectations and being super clear?

[Host]

For example, behind every great restaurant is a great person that lives those values, and is the example if you got the news, you'd be leaving this world tomorrow. All the members of you, your work in your restaurants will be lost with your departure, with the exception of three pieces of wisdom you could leave behind for the good of humanity and your legacy. What would those three pieces of wisdom be? I don't know if you want a tag team, but this.

[Martha Polay]

Yeah, tag it.

[Host]

Whatever is in your gut.

[Martha Polay]

I'd say, you know, put out what you want to ripple out. That would be one, like, get what

[Host]

you give,

[Peter Polay]

Be self compassionate. Two, don't forget about yourself.

[Host]

Yeah. What's the third one?

[Martha Polay]

There is always a solution.

[Host]

Three, we ended this thing the way we started it. I love it. Thank you so much. I find all my guests, the majority of my guests through word of mouth referral. On that note, who do you respect and admire in this industry? Somebody that, if they were a guest on this podcast, you would absolutely listen to that somebody you want to be more like. Who is that?

[Martha Polay]

Well, I would listen to the two biggies. Like, I would listen to Jose Andreas or Danny Meyer, because I find both of them contribute in interesting ways through

[Host]

food, really setting the bar high.

[Martha Polay]

But we have a friend who's a restaurateur, and I'd love to listen to you interview him.

[Host]

Do you have a name written down? You got someone?

[Peter Polay]

No, I have. I have one person, and I'm gonna. It's. I don't know his exact title. It is Chad Blackwater.

[Host]

Chad Blackwater. Who's the name of the person that you have written down or that you had? Your friend that's here.

[Martha Polay]

Oh, Chick Evans. He's in Kenilworth, Illinois.

[Host]

What's it? Chick Evans.

[Martha Polay]

Well, his name's George, but he goes by Chick because his dad was George, but. Chick Evans. And he owns George.

[Host]

Chick Evans.

[Martha Polay]

George. Chick Evans. He owns Maxis in Ithaca, New York, and he owns. What is. Let me just. You give your name and then.

[Peter Polay]

Well, I'm trying to find his name

[Martha Polay]

because why did I just forget the name of his restaurant?

[Peter Polay]

Chad Blackwelder.

[Martha Polay]

Blackwelder, yeah.

[Host]

Want me to look it up?

[Peter Polay]

I think he works for North Carolina Agriculture, and just the amount of. Of outreach. Outreach and support he does for North Carolina products is huge.

[Host]

Chad Black welder.

[Peter Polay]

Yeah, yeah. Turning right there.

[Host]

Rudera Farms with. We're wrapping it up.

[Peter Polay]

You're good.

[Host]

You're good. We can just wrap it. So is there any way we can connect with you? What's the best way to connect?

[Martha Polay]

I'd say email. Yeah. And, you know, Peter's got a lot more information than I do. Like, just about, you know, for people who are interested in doing something with a hotel or whatever.

[Host]

Yeah.

You know, that's the best email to use.

[Martha Polay]

Either Martha at Mondarah HG or Peter at Mondara hg.

[Host]

Any social handles you want to hit us with?

[Martha Polay]

Our Persona.

[Host]

Okay.

[Martha Polay]

Or Madara Hospitality Group at Pasana Restaurant. Or.

[Host]

And if you're wondering where Peter went, he had to. He couldn't make it to the very end. He had to hit the bathroom. But I will let him know when he comes back. And I'll let you know now that I cannot do what I do without people like you taking the time to sit for two and a half hours more to share your story, to go deep, to get vulnerable, and to move the industry forward.

[Martha Polay]

Well, thank you. I think it's really interesting what you're doing. I think it's really great.

[Host]

I appreciate that. There is no questioning. You and Peter, who's not here right now, are unstoppable.

[Martha Polay]

Thank you.

[Host]

Bye.