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- [00:14]
Malcolm Gladwell
On March 12, 2019, the U.S. attorney's Office for the District of Massachusetts unsealed indictments against more than 50 people. Indictments that were part of a criminal investigation codenamed Varsity Blues. Business leaders, celebrities, actors, rich people accused of paying millions of dollars to get their children into elite universities. Millions of dollars in bribes. One by one, the parents were arrested, pled guilty, paid massive fines, served time. Reputations were ruined. The media ran story after story.
- [00:52]
Dax Shepard
50 people facing charges and more arrests are likely in the weeks and months ahead.
- [00:58]
Malcolm Gladwell
Actresses Lori Lough and Felicity Huffman are.
- [01:01]
Britt Marling
Two of the dozens of wealthy parents.
- [01:03]
Malcolm Gladwell
Accused in the alleged scheme.
- [01:04]
Leo Katz
The biggest college admissions fraud in US History.
- [01:07]
Malcolm Gladwell
Meantime, the scandal stretches from Hollywood to Boston next week. It was the largest investigation of its kind in the history of The Justice Department. 56 cases. A home run. And then came the case at the very, very end, the 57th case. This is me in an email to the U.S. attorney's Office of the District of Massachusetts asking about the final case in the Varsity Blues investigation. Hello there. I'm looking to interview any of the U.S. attorneys who were involved in the Amon Khoury case from a few years ago. Do you think that might be possible? Thanks, M. A day later, I get an answer. Three lines received. Thank you. While we greatly appreciate the invitation, we must respectfully decline at this time. At the Department of Justice, they do not want to talk about case 57 of the varsity Blues investigation. Oh, but I do. My name is Malcolm Gladwell. You're listening to Revisionist History, my podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. This episode is part of a little miniseries I'm doing to introduce my new book called Revenge, the Tipping Point, the sequel to my very first book from 25 years ago, the Tipping Point. If you read Revenge, and of course I really hope you do, you'll see that halfway through chapter five, the mysterious case of the Harvard women's rugby team, I make reference to a court case called US v. Khoury. That's the 57th Varsity Blues case. But in chapter five of Revenge of the Tipping Point, I tell only part of the story of USV Khoury. Did I want to tell the whole story? Of course I did. I lost sleep over trying to shoehorn the whole Khoury case into my book because I regard USV Khoury as one of the all time most riveting, most unintentionally hilarious, most heartbreaking legal battles ever. I mean, it ticks every single one of my boxes. It involves a tantalizing philosophical puzzle. It has twists and turns, it makes elite schools look absolutely ridiculous. And if you are a regular listener to this podcast, you know how happy that makes me. Not to mention, it features a cross examination so brutal that fair warning, if you are triggered by a defense attorney disemboweling a witness in open court, you should probably turn this off right now and switch to something safe, like Joe Rogan. But in the end, I could only figure out how to put half of my favorite case ever in Revenge of the Tipping Point. So I thought, just to whet your appetite, I'd use this episode to tell you about the other half, what I've come to think of as the Georgetown Massacre. I was actually in Boca Raton on vacation with my family when I first heard about the Khoury case. My cousin Kyle mentioned it to me in passing, and I was a bit bored. Needed something to read. So I ordered the trial transcripts, 1200 pages. Started reading them over breakfast. Breakfast led to lunch, lunch to dinner, then all day. The next day, the lazy river was put on hold. I sat poolside, oblivious to the children squealing happily around me. The case centered on a very rich man named Amon C. Khoury, who is the son of an even richer man, Amon J. Khoury.
- [04:56]
Leo Katz
So if you look across industries, I.
- [04:58]
Malcolm Gladwell
Mean, my background is private equity. Corey Jr. Didn't want to talk to me, but I wanted you to get a sense of his voice. So here he is, speaking on a podcast called Michigan Reimagined. One of his current projects is disrupting the trailer park business.
- [05:14]
Leo Katz
If you look across industries, from pacemakers.
- [05:18]
Malcolm Gladwell
To automobiles to jet airplanes to helicopters.
- [05:25]
Leo Katz
To computers, the only industry that hauls materials and men to locations is the home building industry. The home building industry is archaic in its approach.
- [05:40]
Malcolm Gladwell
Khoury is in his 50s, graying nicely at the temples, a long, narrow face framed by a pair of exuberant ears. A man who takes care of himself. And his great passion is tennis. He played varsity tennis at Brown University. He played at the country clubs of Palm beach and Cape Cod. He played with his kids. Something about hitting a round, fuzzy ball over a net clearly made him very, very happy. And what he really wanted was his oldest daughter, Catherine, to play tennis in college, just like he had. So one day back in 2014, Eamon Currie goes to his college reunion and has a boozy dinner at the Capitol Grill in Providence with his old teammates from the Brown tennis squad, one of whom is Gordon Ernst, AKA Gordy, who was then the tennis coach at Georgetown University. Gordy Ernst was Not yet notorious, but after the launch of the Varsity Blues investigation, he would be. The U.S. attorney's office for the District of Massachusetts on the occasion of Gordy's sentencing hearing, said this about him. Mr. Ernst was one of the most prolific participants in cheating the college admissions system. He put nearly $3.5 million in bribes directly into his pocket and sold close to two dozen slots at Georgetown to the highest bidder. And According to the U.S. attorney's office, one of those two dozen slots on the Georgetown tennis team was sold at the Boozy Brown reunion dinner to Eamonn Khoury on behalf of his daughter Catherine. Gordy went down, and he brought his old teammate with him. Case number 57. Midway through my long days in Boca, devouring the trial transcript, I realized that Khoury's lawyers were based just down the road. So I called them up. I said, I'm in Boca. I'm up to page 1100. They said, come on down. And I made a beeline for Miami, met up with Roy Black, his partner, Howard Srebnick, and their two longtime partners. Big, shiny office tower conference room, stacks of documents on the table. Roy Black is tall, slender, austere, almost 80 years old, an apex legal predator, completely and utterly intimidating. His nickname is the Professor. Howard Srebnick is much younger. He looks like he's in a 1980s hair metal band. He races motorcycles around Miami in the early morning hours. Oh, I nearly forgot to mention.
- [08:31]
Howard Srebnick
We'll hear argument Next in case 14, 419, Luis versus United States. Mr. Srebnick. Thank you, Mr. Chief justice, and may it please the court.
- [08:40]
Malcolm Gladwell
Howard has also argued two cases before the Supreme Court.
- [08:44]
Britt Marling
Howard is the intellectual, does all the legal work as well as working on the fact, But I leave for him all that kind of stuff. That's the great thing about the way that we work. He'll read cases all day and all night, and his only dream in life is if the case can go to the Supreme Court. But I'm trying to make sure it doesn't go into appeals by winning the trial.
- [09:08]
Malcolm Gladwell
And Roy began by telling me what Amen said when they first talked about the case.
- [09:13]
Britt Marling
He said when he came here, said, I want to go to trial. I don't want to take a plea. I don't feel that I did was a crime. Now, maybe people will disagree with the way I did it. And of course, and I did it the stupid way that it makes it look bad and all of that, but I don't feel I committed a crime. And I think it would be against my own integrity if I went in there and pled guilty just to get a shorter sentence. And if they give me a longer sentence, so be it. I would rather have my day in court, let a jury make the decision. And what I want to do, and this is about six to seven months before his trial, we said, I want. Are you willing to take the case with an agreement you're going to go to trial? I said, yes, that's what we do.
- [09:59]
Malcolm Gladwell
A little digression. Many years ago, I went hiking in Portugal with a good friend of mine whose dad was very wealthy, and we got lost. And I said to her, are you worried? And she said, no, because I have the number. And I said, what's the number? And she said, oh, my dad has these ex Mossad guys on retainer, and if you're ever in trouble, you call them and they come and get you. Mossad? Israel's secret intelligence service. It is entirely possible she was pulling my leg. I don't know. So why am I telling you this? Because Roy Black and Howard Trebnik are the legal version of those ex Mossad guys. If you are a very rich person in America and you find yourself in a great deal of legal peril, your best bet is to call on the offices of Black and Srebnik. We're going to be spending a lot of time with Roy and Howard over the course of the next two episodes. Oh, yeah, I'm doing two episodes on the Georgetown massacre. And there will come a point when you will ask yourself, is Malcolm Gladwell totally in the tank for the law firm of Black and Srebnik? And the answer is, of course I am. Wait, where were we? Oh, yes. Eamonn Khoury is charged and indicted. One count of conspiracy to commit mail fraud, one count of bribery. He retains Roy Black and Howard Srebnik, and he decides that he's not going to take a plea. Now, understand that everyone else charged in the Varsity blues investigation, all 56 of them, pled guilty. The famous actresses Felicity Huffman, Lori Loughlin, folded their cards, paid a fine. Some of them did short stints in prison. How could they not? They were caught paying money under the table to college coaches to pretend that their kids could play sports when they actually couldn't. And why? So their kids could get into a school that they otherwise could not. That's illegal, right?
- [12:05]
Leo Katz
You know, bribe is one of those basic crimes, kind of like murder, theft, rape, by which I mean, not that it's as grave as that, but it's one of Those crimes that are in criminal law, scholars call malum inse, meaning the earliest crimes, the one's conduct that was immoral and that's indisputably immoral. That's why became immediately part of every criminal code going back, I don't know, probably Hammurabi's days.
- [12:32]
Malcolm Gladwell
This is Leo Katz, professor of Law, University of Pennsylvania. In the midst of my infatuation with US V. Kouri, I asked one of the country's leading legal experts to read up on the case so I could ask him questions about it.
- [12:46]
Leo Katz
And then of course there are crimes that are. They're called malum prohibitum, like, you know, not registering for the draft or selling illegal drugs or even not paying taxes, which only became crimes because we decided to make them that.
- [12:59]
Malcolm Gladwell
Katz's point is that we expect to have arguments and complications and gray areas about malum prohibitum, the made up crimes, but not malum and say the indisputably immoral acts. Those are supposed to be open and shut for A M and Curry to say, I'm going to fight this bribery charge. I don't think what I did was wrong. Was an act of extraordinary audacity bordering on just plain foolishness. He decided to be Don Quixote and tilt at the windmill that was the U.S. attorney's Office of the District of Massachusetts. So he came to the same conference room I was sitting in to ask for help.
- [13:39]
Britt Marling
So that's really what happened. He wanted to have a trial and we said, yes, we will do it and dedicate ourselves to get ready for this case. And that's how it started.
- [13:49]
Malcolm Gladwell
So when you have a case like this, you must have a kind of gut instinct about whether it's winnable at the outset. So I'm curious about what your.
- [14:04]
Britt Marling
I didn't have that. I thought that we were behind the eight ball from the beginning, that everybody else had either lost or pled guilty. And I didn't have great optimism about the case, you know, when the client came in. But I said, listen, that's been my whole career is taking cases where things look bleak. I mean, that's what we specialize in.
- [14:28]
Malcolm Gladwell
Black shook his head. The lawyer's nightmare is a client who will not take the easy way out. On the other side of the conference room table, Howard was shaking his head as well.
- [14:38]
Howard Srebnick
He wanted to testify. In fact, it was a battle to convince him he should not testify because he wanted the jury to know the truth, that he did not bribe the coach, and that what he did was an act of generosity. After the fact Not a crime before the fact.
- [14:54]
Malcolm Gladwell
A man attacking a windmill armed only with a tennis racket. A lost cause. Did I tell you that this was my favorite legal case ever? I think I did. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. There are lots of phobias out there. Arachnophobia, the fear of spiders, claustrophobia, aquaphobia. You name it, someone probably has a phobia of it. And once a year, Halloween lets us have fun with what scares us. But what about those fears that don't involve zombies and ghosts? Therapy is a great tool for facing your fears and finding ways to overcome them. Because sometimes the scariest thing is not facing our fears in the first place. Therapy is for everyone. It empowers you with the tools you need to deal with whatever life throws at you. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Visit betterhelp.com gladwell today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.com gladwell if you asked someone to name a genius, virtually everyone would give you the same answer. Albert Einstein. The genius of all geniuses. He's most famous for his general and special theories of relativity, and even children today know his renowned equation E MC squared. And yet, there's one thing that even the great Albert Einstein would have trouble understanding today. Mattresses. Think about it. There are so many styles, so many sizes, so many companies selling them, and so many seemingly good deals this time of year. It's enough to make your brain hurt. Fortunately, there's one simple thing you can do. To understand everything you need to know about choosing a mattress, visit the Saatva blog. It has entries like how to test a Mattress, what makes a luxury mattress, Best Cyber Monday deals, and even the best mattress for sex. Plus loads of other buying guides. Whatever question you have about mattresses, you'll find the answer at the Saatva blog. It is, in a word, genius. Visit the Saatva sleep blog@sattva.com blog that's S A T V A blog.
- [17:37]
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- [18:46]
Malcolm Gladwell
The first witness for the government was a man named Timothy Donovan. He was one of the former Brown tennis players who attended the fateful dinner at the Capitol Grill. He now runs a tennis academy in Milton, Massachusetts. There's no tape of the trial proceedings, but we've recreated testimonies for you using two loyal members of the greater Pushkin community, Dax Shepard and Britt Marling. Here's Britt as one of the prosecutors examining Donovan as played by Dax Shepard.
- [19:16]
Timothy Donovan
Are you familiar with the defendant, Eamon Corey?
- [19:20]
Dax Shepard
I am.
- [19:21]
Timothy Donovan
How do you know him?
- [19:23]
Dax Shepard
We were teammates on the tennis team at Brown University in the late 80s.
- [19:29]
Timothy Donovan
Did there come a time when you entered into an arrangement with the defendant concerning his daughter?
- [19:35]
Dax Shepard
Yes.
- [19:36]
Timothy Donovan
What was the nature of that arrangement?
- [19:40]
Dax Shepard
The nature of it was I was going to help facilitate a deal where the defendant would pay 200,000 in cash in exchange for a recruiting slot at Georgetown University.
- [19:51]
Timothy Donovan
And who was he going to pay $200,000 in cash to as a part of this deal?
- [19:57]
Dax Shepard
Gordon Ernst, the coach at the time at Georgetown.
- [20:01]
Timothy Donovan
And what was the payment for an.
- [20:04]
Dax Shepard
Admissions slot on the team and what.
- [20:08]
Timothy Donovan
Was your role in the deal?
- [20:10]
Dax Shepard
I was essentially the middle person to help with communication back and forth between Gordy Ernst and Eamon Co. Was that payment made? It was.
- [20:23]
Timothy Donovan
By whom?
- [20:25]
Dax Shepard
By Eamonn Khoury.
- [20:27]
Timothy Donovan
And what was your understanding of whether the defendant's daughter was actually qualified to play tennis?
- [20:35]
Dax Shepard
She was not qualified to play at that level of college tennis.
- [20:39]
Timothy Donovan
And what was your understanding of whether she was actually going to play tennis at Georgetown?
- [20:45]
Dax Shepard
The defendant and I talked about how she had no plans to play there.
- [20:49]
Malcolm Gladwell
To be specific, Donovan went to Khoury's house on Cape Cod, picked up a brown paper grocery bag with $180,000 in cash, got 20k for himself, and delivered the package to Gordy Ernst's wife, who stashed it in a safe deposit box.
- [21:07]
Timothy Donovan
How did Catherine's scores compare to the average scores of your clients who were admitted to Georgetown as tennis recruits?
- [21:14]
Dax Shepard
They were quite a bit lower.
- [21:16]
Timothy Donovan
If we can look at page four, please. We see a copy of Catherine's transcript, and in particular, her junior year average was 78.5. How did Catherine's GPA compare to the average GPA of your clients who were admitted to Georgetown as tennis recruits?
- [21:34]
Dax Shepard
Significantly lower.
- [21:37]
Malcolm Gladwell
After Donovan came a parade of other witnesses. Tennis people, people from Catherine Khoury's high school, her guidance counselor, tennis coach, all saying the same thing. Katie Khoury at a school like Georgetown is a dubious proposition. Day two of the trial was not good for the defense. Day three, not good. Day four comes and goes. If you are Eamon Curry sitting in the defendant's chair, you're thinking, I should have taken a plea. I'm going away for years. But then came day five, the Georgetown massacre. Let's talk about Brenda Smith, which I thought was the. In my reading was the highlight. On day five, Howard and Roy called a witness who worked as a fundraiser for the Georgetown athletic department. Her name was Brenda Smith. Smith did not come to the courthouse willingly. She was subpoenaed. All she knew going in was what the Georgetown lawyers clearly told her, which was not to worry. This was going to be easy. She wasn't on trial. Eamon Khoury was. The case was black and white and she was on the winning side. Mala men say so. Yeah. Describe that whole moment exchange for me. Because, like I said, all I can do is read it. So bring it to life. Howard sets the scene.
- [23:03]
Howard Srebnick
So now Brenda Smith, whose sole job as the, quote, senior director of development for athletics.
- [23:10]
Malcolm Gladwell
Close quote.
- [23:11]
Howard Srebnick
And development doesn't mean bodybuilding, conditioning, fitness. Development is a euphemism for money raising money. She's now on the witness stand and she's going to suggest that money doesn't matter with regard to admissions, that her job is entirely independent of the admissions process.
- [23:32]
Malcolm Gladwell
This was the moral heart of the case. Why does Eamonn Khoury belong in jail? Because he used a grocery bag full of cash to corrupt the admissions process at a selective institution where the admissions process is supposed to be about merit and achievement. So Smith takes the stand. Roy's asking the questions. Once again, our voice actors.
- [23:58]
Dax Shepard
All right, I wanted to ask you about admissions into the university. The university has an admissions department, correct. Or admissions office.
- [24:06]
Timothy Donovan
Correct.
- [24:08]
Dax Shepard
And you are not an admissions officer?
- [24:11]
Timothy Donovan
No.
- [24:13]
Dax Shepard
However, you would communicate with admissions officers, would you not?
- [24:17]
Timothy Donovan
No, I never did.
- [24:19]
Dax Shepard
Would you ever get involved in attempting to influence the admission of people into the university?
- [24:25]
Timothy Donovan
No, I did not.
- [24:27]
Dax Shepard
Did you ever lobby the admissions office?
- [24:31]
Timothy Donovan
The admissions office? No. No.
- [24:34]
Dax Shepard
Did you ever advise the admissions office about the amount of money people had?
- [24:40]
Timothy Donovan
No.
- [24:41]
Dax Shepard
Did you ever advise the admissions office that an athlete or a potential athlete came from a well positioned family?
- [24:49]
Timothy Donovan
No.
- [24:50]
Dax Shepard
Did you ever advise the admission office about the net worth of parents of potential recruits?
- [24:57]
Timothy Donovan
I did not.
- [24:59]
Dax Shepard
Did you ever advise the admissions office about the value of parents homes?
- [25:04]
Timothy Donovan
I did not, no.
- [25:06]
Malcolm Gladwell
Brenda Smith does not seem to have realized at this point that Howard and Roy have in their possession every email, every email she wrote in the time of her employment at Georgetown. Or maybe she does, but the implications of that fact haven't sunk in. I mean, maybe she thought I wrote thousands and thousands of emails. 99% of them were harmless. There's no way they read all of them, is there? Well, yes, there is. And Roy starts putting his favorites up on the screen.
- [25:38]
Dax Shepard
All right, can we turn to exhibit 285. And if we could highlight the middle paragraph. By the way, who is. Let's. Let's go to the top first. I'm sorry, who is David Nolan?
- [25:51]
Timothy Donovan
He is the women's soccer coach.
- [25:55]
Dax Shepard
All right, and he's asking you if she is somebody you want to cultivate, Correct?
- [26:01]
Timothy Donovan
That's what the email says.
- [26:03]
Dax Shepard
Good. Tell me what the word cultivate means.
- [26:08]
Timothy Donovan
Develop a relationship with typically.
- [26:12]
Dax Shepard
All right, and if we could. Oh, you put down there in the second one, you wrote 5.6 million house, right?
- [26:21]
Timothy Donovan
Correct.
- [26:24]
Dax Shepard
So I guess you do find out how much parents homes are worth, right?
- [26:29]
Timothy Donovan
Well, you asked me earlier if I share that information with admissions. I do not. This is an email with a coach. This is different.
- [26:42]
Dax Shepard
So as I understand it, then, you're telling the soccer coach that a prospective athletic soccer player's parents own a home worth $5.6 million, right?
- [26:54]
Timothy Donovan
Yes.
- [26:56]
Dax Shepard
Now can I ask you this? What does that have to do with their ability to play soccer?
- [27:04]
Timothy Donovan
Nothing.
- [27:05]
Dax Shepard
Does that have something to do with the ability to get them to donate money to the soccer team?
- [27:12]
Timothy Donovan
No. It's simply the part of the family relationship that I would be interested in.
- [27:21]
Malcolm Gladwell
The trial had ended well over a year before I met with the Koori defense team. But everyone in the conference room that day, Roy, Howard and their two partners, Jackie Percheck and Maria Neyra, remembered the key moments perfectly. Something would come up in our conversation. They would pick up one of the stacks of transcripts on the table and just start reading one of my favorite.
- [27:44]
Howard Srebnick
One of the coaches Writing to Brenda Smith, the coaches will have to recruit really rich kids who can play.
- [27:51]
Britt Marling
Yeah, I remember that one. Yeah, well, yeah, rich kids who can play.
- [27:57]
Malcolm Gladwell
Yeah.
- [27:58]
Britt Marling
Okay.
- [27:58]
Malcolm Gladwell
The beauty of it is, is that before he got to the email, Roy would say to the witness, and did you ever get an email where somebody would tell you that you need to recruit really rich people?
- [28:09]
Britt Marling
Of course not, Mr. Black.
- [28:14]
Howard Srebnick
Brenda Smith writing to the swimming coach. In an effort by Brenda Smith to get the swimming coach to recruit the student. Quote, this is a family who may not have seven figures, but definitely six figures. And Roy says anything in there about the splits, the times in the hundred yard dash? Look in the lacroix on the lacrosse team. Of course our case was about tennis, but it was institutional. Quote, I'm checking on this potential recruit, one of my five hundred thousand dollar donors. And next I'm working on a five hundred million plus. Five hundred million, yeah. And so Brenda Smith writes back, so if the student is in your ballpark at all. Da da, da.
- [29:18]
Malcolm Gladwell
So wait, describe Brenda Smith to me during that testimony. What's she doing? How is she dealing with this?
- [29:25]
Britt Marling
She was sort of befuddled as I recall.
- [29:28]
Howard Srebnick
Yes, another example of someone just denying what was obvious losing credibility as she's sitting on the witness stand to try to pretend as if wealth did not affect the admissions process.
- [29:41]
Britt Marling
They didn't want to ever admit that money influenced admissions. They will never admit that. Even no matter how many emails we show them, they would still not admit it because they knew they could not admit that. It just they thought that that would infect the integrity of the school.
- [29:59]
Malcolm Gladwell
Is she defiant or humiliated or defeated?
- [30:02]
Britt Marling
No, no, she wasn't defiant. As I said, she was more befuddled. Like why am I here? And I don't really want to be here, but it's like they told me to show up, so here I am. What Georgetown's mission was at the trial, to look that, to say that development is separate from admissions. That was their whole theme, is that we admit people, but it has nothing to do with money. Sure, we'll ask for money later, but there's no connection between the two. That was what everybody on direct examination testified to because they thought as a matter of integrity, they didn't want to admit that people got admitted because of their wealth.
- [30:48]
Malcolm Gladwell
That's a good Catholic school. It's the parable of the coin. And Jesus answering said unto them, render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's. And they marveled at him, render to development, the things that are development. And to admissions, the things that are admissions. And finally, we come to my favorite email. It's from Gordy again. Gordon Ernst, Eamon Curry's old tennis teammate, to Brenda Smith. You can imagine how much our apex predator is enjoying this moment.
- [31:26]
Dax Shepard
Now, let me show you. He sends you this email in which he says no idea if he has dough or not. He struck me as a bit of a tire kicker, but who knows? Sometimes those are big hitters. Now, why in the world would he be asking you or telling you he has no idea if the kid has money?
- [31:47]
Timothy Donovan
I don't. I don't know. I don't know what this term is about.
- [31:52]
Dax Shepard
You responded, he has no money at all.
- [31:56]
Timothy Donovan
Right, I do say that.
- [32:01]
Dax Shepard
Why would you be telling that to the. Describing a potential recruit like that to the tennis coach?
- [32:08]
Timothy Donovan
Well, I believe because I was trying to get him back on track. If you see his previous comment, it was about money. And I was trying to talk to him about whether or not this kid was a recruit. The previous emails are about this parent wanting to hold his kid out of college for a year to do a gap year, but with the hopes that the kid would be able to play for Gordy. And I was trying to get to the heart of the conversation, looks like, which is how he would not be a recruit.
- [32:44]
Dax Shepard
But your actual statement is he has no money at all. Show me the money.
- [32:51]
Timothy Donovan
Yeah, that's a joke. Like that was a joke in our office. Show me the money. Show me the money. Like it was just a joke in the office.
- [33:05]
Dax Shepard
And then you end it by saying, he sounds dreadful.
- [33:10]
Timothy Donovan
Yes, I do.
- [33:13]
Dax Shepard
Why would you say that?
- [33:16]
Timothy Donovan
I don't know.
- [33:21]
Malcolm Gladwell
Oh, dear. So let us imagine that you are sitting in the jury during the eight long days of U.S. v. Curry. You might begin with a very straightforward that rich people should not be buying their children's way into Georgetown University. But then by day five, after the Georgetown massacre, you begin to think, oh, wait a minute. In a kind of roundabout way, Georgetown allows rich people to buy their way into Georgetown University, only they are a little more circumspect about it. I mean, no one is making donations to Georgetown in a brown paper bag. But what exactly is the difference between what Eamon Currie and Gordy did and what the Georgetown Development office did every day? Isn't it just that Gordy and Aman's arrangement was a bit too obvious? This was the point that my legal expertise, Leo Katz, made. Katz suggested a hypothetical scenario to make sense of this. Suppose that after that boozy dinner at the Capitol Grill. Khoury and Gordy had gone to a lawyer, and the lawyer said to Gordy, you should start a tennis camp.
- [34:43]
Leo Katz
And the lawyer says, you know, you could. You could just, you know, charge an arm and a leg or maybe sort of a sliding scale for getting admitted to the tennis camp. And then you predominantly choose people from.
- [34:55]
Malcolm Gladwell
Your tennis camp to be admitted, which you could justify. Right. You've seen them play. You know their strengths.
- [35:03]
Leo Katz
And if you do it that way, you know, then it's. It's. I think you ought to be okay. And then the puzzle. Right. As well. Gee, if it. If it could have been done that way, but just happened not to be done that way, they did it in a more direct way with the paper bag. What's the big deal? It comes to the same thing, Theo.
- [35:22]
Malcolm Gladwell
You're missing one computer, though, which I'm curious what you make of this. I would add a third if I was him. Yeah, I would say. And the goal of my tennis camp is not to produce elite tennis players, but to instill in the campers a love of the game and to build character among those, you know, who have chosen tennis. I mean, if he does, you're much.
- [35:48]
Leo Katz
Better at this than I am. I mean, I just. That's right. I think he'd want to get a lawyer, and the lawyer would probably want to bring in a PR person who can then add some.
- [35:58]
Malcolm Gladwell
But he just seems to be frank about the fact he's not interested in turning out Roger Federer. That's not what this camp is about.
- [36:05]
Leo Katz
That's important to specify that. No. Your objectives. That makes it even easier, because then you. Bypassing people who are maybe better tennis players then becomes particularly unobjectionable.
- [36:15]
Malcolm Gladwell
In the evening, after we've hit backhands for two hours, we'll sit and we'll discuss great works of legal philosophy, such as books written by Leo Katz.
- [36:25]
Leo Katz
Yes, yes.
- [36:26]
Malcolm Gladwell
The patron saint of this particular arrangement. Yes, yes, yes, that would work. This is the hypothetical scenario that would have saved Gordie Ernst and Eamon Curry a tennis camp. But wait, wait. Gordy Ernst actually had a tennis camp. We know he has one. He's running out of the Georgetown. And the arrangement he has with the university is that he was running it on university property during the summer, and he was allowed to keep 100% of the proceeds from the camp. So they had signed off on that. Wow.
- [37:05]
Leo Katz
The 100% makes it particularly interesting.
- [37:07]
Malcolm Gladwell
And the other thing that's fascinating is that in all aspects of the decisions about who to admit both to his tennis squad but also his camp. He has discretion. No one is. The university is not interfering in a substantial way with either of. If he wants someone on his tennis team, he gets someone on his tennis team. And definitely in his summer camp, he gets to admit absolutely whoever he wants. So, say Gordi Ernst made it clear that he wasn't actually trying to recruit great tennis players. Then wouldn't the crime of letting someone on the team who wasn't a great tennis player look less and less like a crime? As I was talking to Leo Katz, I suddenly remembered, oh, there was an email on this right in the middle of the Georgetown massacre. It's about a big time Georgetown donor who has a friend who was a kid who likes to play tennis. Roy made a meal out of this one while examining Brenda Smith.
- [38:06]
Dax Shepard
And then it says, his good friend and a well positioned family. What does that mean, a well positioned family?
- [38:14]
Timothy Donovan
I think it means that the family has the potential to be donors should they become involved with the university.
- [38:25]
Dax Shepard
All right, and what they're saying here is that the person wants to come to the campus and meet with Gordon Ernst, Correct?
- [38:32]
Timothy Donovan
That's what it says.
- [38:34]
Dax Shepard
You tell Gordy Ernst that. But if she he is in the ballpark, it wouldn't hurt us. Now, does that mean that it wouldn't hurt us to recruit the person?
- [38:46]
Timothy Donovan
No. Gordy is asking me if I want him to meet with the kid. And so I'm saying it wouldn't hurt us if he met with him.
- [38:58]
Dax Shepard
And what he responds to you, another mediocre player. That is my strike zone. What is he telling you there?
- [39:06]
Timothy Donovan
That his team is not a very well performing team.
- [39:11]
Malcolm Gladwell
Gordy, you idiot, you could have made all this go away so easily. And that's what I have to imagine the jury is thinking, why are we going through all this trouble sitting here for the better part of two weeks to stand in judgment of two people who were just too stupid to conduct their business with the right number of nudges and winks? The Georgetown massacre was when the first cracks appeared in the government's case. And then the whole thing goes south. Because right after Brenda Smith is disemboweled on the stand, Howard and Roy call a mystery witness. And the mystery witness has a very big surprise for the prosecutors of the District of Massachusetts. That's next week in Part two.
- [39:59]
Britt Marling
In terms of poise and speaking, she had such authenticity. She came across very well as a witness.
- [40:12]
Malcolm Gladwell
Revisionist History is produced by Nina Bird Lawrence with Ben Dadaff Haffrey and Lucy Sullivan. Our editor is Karen Shakerji. Fact checking by Sam Rusek. Original scoring by Luis Guerra. Mastering by Echo Mountain. Engineering by Sarah Bruguer and Nina Bird Lawrence. Production support from Luc Lamond. Our executive producer is the incomparable Jacob Smith. Special thanks to Sarah Nix. Voice acting by Dax Shepard and Britt Marling, who had so much fun working together on our Little Mermaid episodes a few seasons ago that they re upped for another tour of duty. I'm Malcolm Gladwell.