Right to Reply 10: Grand Final Results Comments

Summary

Rex Factor – Right to Reply 10: Grand Final Results Comments
August 8, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, hosts Graham Duke and Ali Hook reflect on audience comments and debates surrounding the results of Series 3’s grand final. Having crowned the “rexiest” Queen or Prince Consort of England, they take a deep dive into the public’s reactions, discuss the merits and missteps of historical figures, and preview what’s coming next for the podcast. Throughout, they maintain their hallmark blend of humor, historical insight, and candid discussion.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Series 3: Wrapping Up the Consorts

• The End of a Historic Journey:

  • Graham remarks on the surreal feeling of finishing a six-year series on English consorts, even as a flood of data and comments keep the work going.
    • "It’s strange to think it’s all going to finish. It’s also been strange the last sort of week or so in which it’s felt like it had finished, but then I had to get the stats and all of these comments..." (03:23)

• Celebrating the Series:

  • Ali jokes that the real celebration will be the upcoming “wrap party,” while both hosts reflect on the honor it’s been to tell these stories. Ali also notes his broadcasting from Sheffield.

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2. The “Nearly Rexy” Consorts – Honorary Rex Factor

[Timestamps: 05:05–14:29]

Matilda of Flanders’ Triumph:

• Honorary Title Allocation:
  • The Privy Council awarded Matilda of Flanders an honorary Rex Factor, beating Isabella von Golem and Prince Philip.
• Audience Comments – Star Qualities and Critiques:
  • Philip’s ceremonial contentions:
    • “Can you really be said to have that certain something that we call Rex Factor when your main job is ceremonially opening leisure centres?”
      – Audience Comment (06:11)
  • On Philip’s redefinition of the consort role and being “robbed” because pre-consort achievements were discounted.
• On Matilda's Rexy Moment:
  • “It’s the standing at the front of the ship, wind in her hair, greeting William. Such a badass moment. So much Rex Factor.” (13:32)
  • Ali adds: “She could quite easily grace the cover of this book.” (13:50)
  • Personality vs. Forgettability:
    • Both hosts admit Matilda’s story is oddly forgettable, even as she “ticks all the boxes” (12:08–12:58).

Isabella of Angouleme – The Chaotic Runner-Up:

• Opinions Split on Isabella:
  • “Drama can be very entertaining, but Isabella just seems more of a troublemaking narcissist...” – Audience Comment (09:07)
  • Another says: “I love Isabella. She’s mad, bad, and dangerous to know.” (10:33)
  • “All hail Isabella of Angouleme, the ultimate hot mess...” (10:48)

Prince Philip – The Modern Dilemma:

• Long Service, Little Recognition:
  • Discussion on how modern consorts are judged more for their symbolic or supportive roles, and whether Philip belonged in the final.
  • “From war hero to opening Wrexham Library.” (06:46)

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3. The Playoffs: Audience Insight on Final Rankings

Segment: [14:41–35:14]

Round 1 Losers Among the Rex Factor Winners:

• Caroline of Brunswick (19th):
  • “Caroline last because...being married to George would have been rough on anyone, to be fair, but being married to her was rough on him too. What’s the inverse of a power couple?” (15:26)
• Mary of Teck (18th):
  • Anecdote on Mary’s stoicism in the face of scandal illuminates why she lagged (16:41).
• Elizabeth Bowes Lyon (17th):
  • Supporters cite her WWII influence, while doubters claim, “having a giraffe in this company.” (17:17)
• Edgiva of Kent (16th):
  • Praised for “turbo granny” politicking but often confused with Emma of Normandy. (18:54)
• Elizabeth Woodville (15th):
  • Recognized for her political savvy in a turbulent era. (21:00)
• Prince Albert (14th):
  • Divides listeners with accusations of being “a moralizing prick” against those who championed his accomplishments and chemistry with Victoria (22:20).
  • Unexpected quote: “He gave his name to a cock ring. What could be Rexia?” (23:43)
• Matilda of Scotland (13th):
  • Noted for restoring the Anglo-Saxon line, significant charity, and effective regency: “Live, laugh, love Matilda.” (25:39)

Semi-Final Losers and Their Qualities:

• Henrietta Maria (12th):
  • Both criticized for civil war involvement and celebrated for “punching through a window.” (25:54)
• Catherine Parr (11th):
  • Saluted for exemplifying women’s power in Tudor England. (26:59)
• Elfrith (10th):
  • The first crowned queen of England, celebrated for “scoring highly in all the factors.” (27:40)
• Caroline of Ansbach (9th):
  • “Best subjectivity of any queen you’ve covered...remarkable that she was such a fantastic and memorable queen, even in times of peace.” (28:08)
• Anne Boleyn (8th):
  • Deeply divisive; “I desperately want to be fair to her, but I can’t like her... But my inner child still just shouts boo. Evil stepmother. Whenever she’s mentioned.” Countered by those amazed at her continuing impact. (29:19–30:16)
• Matilda of Boulogne (7th):
  • Recognition that “it really was Matilda versus Matilda. Steven was just the man with a fancy hat she propped up and would have given up far sooner if not for her.” (32:17)
• Ethelflaed (6th):
  • Debate over whether she fits the consort category, but acclaimed as a “badass.” (32:55)
• Margaret of Anjou (5th):
  • Regarded as a fighter and praised for her dynamism, though unlucky in life and show votes. (33:25)

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4. Next Series – “Nearly Monarchs” vs. Scottish Consorts

[35:14–45:14]

The Audience Debate

• Split Voting:

  • By a single vote, listeners selected English Nearly Monarchs as the next series over Scottish Consorts.

• Perspectives for Scottish Consorts:

  • Desire for a continuous historical narrative: “One of the things I love about Rex Factor is that it tells a continuous story through history.” (36:01)
  • Advocacy for more women-centered history, given French series will be male-dominated.
  • Completing symmetry: “English monarchs, Scottish monarchs, English consorts. It would complete the pattern...” (40:13)

• Arguments for Nearly Monarchs:

  • Offers closure on legendary figures like Matilda, Black Prince, Lady Jane Grey – “missing pieces of a jigsaw.” (41:33)
  • Preference for variety, randomness, “big names,” and counterfactual history.
  • Excitement for Ali finally learning about Lady Jane Grey: “I think Ali finally deserves to know who Lady Jane Grey is.” (42:30)

• Methodology for Series 4:

  • Series to be chronological, starting with the Saxon era (45:55).

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5. Grand Final – The Top Four Consorts

[46:15–62:41]

Fourth: Catherine of Aragon

• Criticism:
  • Branded “toxic” for refusing Henry’s wishes (47:03).
• Support & Legacy:
  • “Catherine truly believed that she was to be Queen of England...Her resistance...is the very reason Henry VIII ultimately breaks with the Catholic Church.” (48:21 & 49:18)
  • Celebrated as the regent who won Henry’s greatest victory and as the embodiment of faith and fortitude.

Third: Emma of Normandy

• Divided Response:
  • Some agree with Ali in finding her story hard to "click," but classroom-focused listeners salute her for crafting her own legacy:
    • “By commissioning a history, she told us exactly how she wanted to be remembered.” (52:05)
  • Multiple references to Ali “doing her dirty” by not voting for her enough. (51:28)

Second: Isabella of France

• Praise:
  • Lauded as a “ballsy, brave and bodacious lady” (57:32), and for succeeding where others failed: “Both tried to overthrow their husbands, but only one succeeded.” (58:31)
• Critique:
  • Critics point out her reliance on Roger Mortimer and that Edward II was not a formidable opponent (54:03).
• Human Fallibility:
  • The critique that “she sort of spoil(ed) it all with a man that ruins it,” referencing her alliance with Mortimer. (55:48)

Champion: Eleanor of Aquitaine

• Mixed Views:
  • Some argue her rebelliousness against Henry II marks her as a “bad queen.” (58:31)
• Indisputable Legacy:
  • “Queen of two countries, went on crusade, manipulated Henry even from her house arrest, and left a legacy that still resonates today...” (59:43)
  • Her life is described as “super massive gas” that looms large over the consort world (61:26).
  • Admired for ending an unfulfilling marriage, choosing her own husband, nurturing powerful sons, and maintaining power as queen mother.
  • “...she was a boss bitch for the rest of her days.” – Audience Comment (63:16)
  • Host reflections on the need to shine a light on less-known but extraordinary figures.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On modern consorts:
  • “From war hero to opening Wrexham Library.” – Graham (06:46)
• On Isabella of Angouleme:
  • “All hail Isabella of Angouleme, the ultimate hot mess who defied expectations at every turn, ending her days in the nunnery after an attempt to assassinate a king. You honestly couldn’t make it up.” (10:48)
• On Eleanor of Aquitaine:
  • “Queen of two countries, went on crusade, manipulated Henry even from her house arrest, and left a legacy that still resonates today.” – Listener (59:43)
• On Matilda of Flanders:
  • “It’s the standing at the front of the ship, wind in her hair, greeting William. Such a badass moment. So much Rex Factor.” (13:32)
• On audience desires:
  • “I think Ali finally deserves to know who Lady Jane Grey is.” (42:30)
• Self-aware humor:
  • “As soon as I sort of... She’s like a super massive gas that as soon as you take a peek into the consort world, who gets filled with this personality of Eleanor.” – Ali (61:26)
• On the emotional rollercoaster of judging history:
  • “I only really love one person here, so the winner was easy... Live, laugh, love Matilda.” – Listener (25:39)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 05:05–14:29 — Audience commentary on the honorary Rex Factor vote & major consort finalists
• 14:41–35:14 — Playoff results for all 19 Rexy consorts, with focused quotes on each
• 35:14–45:14 — Series 4 debate: Scottish Consorts vs. English Nearly Monarchs
• 46:15–62:41 — Grand Final: Catherine of Aragon, Emma of Normandy, Isabella of France, Eleanor of Aquitaine

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Episode Tone and Style

• Signature blend of historical insight laced with wit, irreverence, and friendly banter.
• Hosts openly embrace confusion over historical details (“I really do. That’s the thing. There’s nothing I can’t. Every time you tell me, I go, yeah, yeah...It’s like trying to catch a cloud.” – Ali on Matilda of Flanders, 12:08).
• They comfort listeners who “can’t remember who’s who,” reflecting universal struggles with complex royal histories.
• Audience comments are treated with respect and humor alike; debates are handled honestly but always with an entertaining edge.

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Looking Ahead

• Wrap party/live show in Ludlow, plus special interviews and bonus content for supporters.
• Series 4 (“English and British Nearly Monarchs”) planned for 2026, promising deep dives into lesser-known but hugely consequential historical figures—and the long-awaited education of Ali Hook on Lady Jane Grey.

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For listeners seeking historical drama, passionate debate, and sharp, funny commentary, this episode is a fitting close to a monumental series—and a tantalizing prelude to what's next on Rex Factor.

Transcript

[Graham Duke]

K Pop demon hunters, Saja Boy's breakfast meal and Hunt Trick's meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi? It's not a battle. So glad the Saja Boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.

[Ali Hook]

It is an honor to share. No, it's our honor.

[Graham Duke]

It is our larger honor. No, really, stop.

[Ali Hook]

You can really feel the respect in this battle.

[Graham Duke]

Pick a meal to pick a side.

[Ali Hook]

Ba da ba ba ba and participate

[Graham Duke]

in McDonald's while supplies last. It's crunch time at work and you need to bring wings to your workday. Visit redbull.com gettingitdone and answer a couple questions about your work style to get a Spotify customized playlist tuned to your productivity. Plus score a can of Red Bull on us while you go from to do to done. And remember, Red Bull gives you wings. Supplies are limited. Terms apply. Visit the website for more information. Tax act is here anytime you want to easily file your taxes. Tax act is here for the early birds who like to knock them out as soon as the season opens and for the procrastinators who like to wait

[Ali Hook]

until the very last minute.

[Graham Duke]

Tax act is also here for the midlers who file right in the middle of tax season. No one ever talks about the midlers, but taxact sees you and Taxact respects you. Taxact. Let's get them over with.

[Ali Hook]

Welcome to Rex Factor. Right to reply 10 grand final results with your hosts Graham Duke and Ali Hook.

[Graham Duke]

Hello hello and welcome to X Factor where we have reviewed all the Queen and Prince consorts of England from Aelswith to Prince Philip. We have crowned the champion of series three as well as various other votes. Last time we took you through the specifics data analysis of the public vote. This time we're going to be going through comments that everybody was leaving on the polls. So you did your vote and then there was also an option to leave comment. So we're going to go through some of those comments.

[Ali Hook]

So there can't be any spoilers to this.

[Graham Duke]

No spoilers. So I suppose if you are listening to this as a latest episode and you don't know the results of series three of all the English Queen and Prince consorts of England and you'd like to know that then turn your radio down now. Exactly. Turn the radio down for the next hour. Listen to a different episode. If you insist on finishing this but you don't want to know

[Ali Hook]

it was look away now. Wasn't it for the telly.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah.

[Ali Hook]

I used to say on the radio, though, as well, surely, I mean, it

[Graham Duke]

wouldn't have really helped.

[Ali Hook]

No. If you don't want to know the results, taste something else here.

[Graham Duke]

And once we've done today, that really will be it for series three of Rex Factor. Although I think on the. Your podcast feed we'll probably still continue to treat subsequent episodes of series three. But in terms of the consorts, this is the last. Unless we sort of count Ludlow as a sort of.

[Ali Hook]

It's not the last we hear of them. Yeah, isn't it?

[Graham Duke]

They'll be back. They'll be back for. Yeah, it's been. It's been a big journey and it's. Yeah, it's strange to think it's all going to finish. It's also been strange the last sort of week or so in which it's felt like it had finished, but then I had to get the stats and all of these comments and I was thinking, how is it still taking me hours and hours and we've actually finished and yet I'm still doing these concerts?

[Ali Hook]

This is. That is such a. A terrifically understated way to celebrate six years of long, hard work. Well, it just feels a bit different, but fortunately I had some more work to get me through that feeling of it being a bit different. I think we'll sell it. You know what I feel like the celebration will be, Ludlow.

[Graham Duke]

Well, it is quite appropriate timing, isn't it, really? Just. Just a couple of weeks after it's all done, we get.

[Ali Hook]

We can raise a glass to it and yeah, celebrate your hard work. You might notice I sound different, Graham.

[Graham Duke]

Ah, yes, and listeners might notice that as well. So that's because Ali is not at home in the studio. He is in Sheffield.

[Ali Hook]

Where. What? I mean, why isn't everyone in Sheffield? It is cool.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah. So if Ali's audio sounds slightly less pristine than normal, that is why. So it's so that we can still podcast before holidays, but so that he didn't have to bring his entire stack of stuff with him. Anyway, as ever, if you'd like to get in touch with us or find out more about the playoffs, which you still got all the. The videos and whatnot up on the website. Then go to the website rexfactorpodcast.com as well as links to our social media where you can get in touch with us or email rexfactorpodcastotmail.com Anyway, let's hear what everyone was saying.

[Ali Hook]

Nearly Rexy Consorts. Yappy. Yappy, yappy, yappy.

[Graham Duke]

So, quick recap. Nearly. Rexy consorts are the ones who didn't originally get the Rex Factor. But there were some who were close to getting it and thus competed in a Privy Council only vote for an honorary Rex Factor. And in the grand final, Privy Council has voted for Mutt Ma. I was going to say Margaret. I know, I know. You say that every time, but I really don't think we've done this.

[Ali Hook]

I really don't remember that one, Mutma. That's just designed to confuse me completely too.

[Graham Duke]

In the grand final, Privy Councilors voted for Matilda of Flanders to get the Honorary Rex Factor award, ahead of Isabella von Golem and Prince Philip.

[Ali Hook]

Genuinely? Genuinely. Tell me who Mittmar was again.

[Graham Duke]

That's who I mean, she is now. Matt Mar, for one thing.

[Ali Hook]

Is it better of. No. Matilda of Flanders.

[Graham Duke]

Matilda of Flanders. William the Conqueror's wife and consort.

[Ali Hook]

And that's who you're just talking about, then?

[Graham Duke]

Yeah.

[Ali Hook]

Mrs. The Conqueror, please.

[Graham Duke]

Anyway, we'll go in reverse order. So we start with Philip in third place. One person neatly summarized the case against a modern candidate for Rex Factor awards and why they perhaps don't do so well. Can you really be said to have that certain something that we call Rex Factor when your main job is ceremonially opening leisure centres?

[Ali Hook]

Amy, that's an interesting point

[Graham Duke]

to diminish as many life's achievements. But equally you do get the point of what that's.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah. When it does. When you made the point about he was terrifically rexian pre being consort, and then maybe he wasn't so Rex then that completely gets to the nub of that, doesn't it? From war hero to opening Wrexham Library.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah, it's a change. However, others spoke up for him. Philip has been robbed, in my opinion. He deserves the Rex factor already just for coining the expression dontobadology. Humour paired with self reflection is marvellous.

[Ali Hook]

I agree. Yeah, that is my favourite as well.

[Graham Duke]

Some felt he was unfairly marked down. I feel his early pre consort achievements have been unfairly discounted. His naval heroism, his formative role in shaping Commonwealth relationships, simply because they occurred before he officially became consort. This is a standard not applied to others. And Boleyn's pre coronation court influence, for example, was central to her historical weight.

[Ali Hook]

That is a good point, isn't it?

[Graham Duke]

So maybe it's just because he was consort for so long that we felt less inclined to give him as much credit for his consorty stuff. Whereas some of those that have less time as consort but an interesting bit beforehand. We probably maybe give them more credit.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah. I mean, I can't believe that we gave it to Mary of Tech and Elizabeth Poe's line are not him. Or did I give it to him?

[Graham Duke]

Yeah, I think you said yes, so I think you just gave it to all of them.

[Ali Hook]

Did I?

[Graham Duke]

Yeah. God, we're nearly there now. Go on. Yeah, yeah, yep, go on.

[Ali Hook]

I think there was a bit of that.

[Graham Duke]

And finally, Prince Philip definitely has star quality and in many ways defined or redefined the modern consortium. Being the longest serving consort definitely puts him in a category of his own. For most of us, he's the only consort we'd ever known. The normal saying is that behind every successful man is a strong woman. And in this case, it was the other way round. I don't think the Queen would have lasted as long or been as enduring without his support. Right. In second place, the runner up was Isabella of Angouleme. She proved something of a Marmite candidate, so some people really loved her, but for some, she was just too chaotic. Drama can be very entertaining, but Isabella just seems more of a troublemaking narcissist more than a roguish baddie that you just can't help enjoying. On this vote in particular, the work as an actual consult really came to the forefront for me. Didn't know I'd end up voting this way. But rexing will always surprise you.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, I mean, you do it, do whatever it is that you don't approve of hard enough and it becomes rexy again.

[Graham Duke]

And likewise, I often vote on subjectivity. I can't fully support Isabella and her zero in the category. That is, to me, most important. This is especially true right now when, as an American, I'm not feeling particularly kindly towards chaotic, narcissistic rulers who are making moves in their own interests and leaving ruin in their wake.

[Ali Hook]

Interesting. Yeah. I mean that, you know, from a completely neutral point of view, that's interesting that you can sort of actually. Subjectivity from the past you can relate to that. Always feels like, you know, how would you feel if you had, I don't know, a turnip?

[Graham Duke]

I don't know.

[Ali Hook]

Or mud?

[Graham Duke]

I mean, for you, to be honest, that's all you need.

[Ali Hook]

I was gonna say it sounds really good.

[Graham Duke]

I'm done, I'm done. Don't need the rest.

[Ali Hook]

Turnip in a roundhouse? I mean, is this holiday? I wonder.

[Graham Duke]

Others, however, embrace the chaos. I love Isabella. She's mad, bad and dangerous to know. I love her attitude. Would I have wanted to be her Subject. No. Is she Rexy? Absolutely.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah. I mean, Trump. Yeah.

[Graham Duke]

Similarly, for me, it has to be Isabella. She's wildly unpredictable, volatile, and utterly fascinating. And I wouldn't have known anything about her if it weren't for X Factor. It's hard not to be captivated by the whirlwind of chaos she leaves in her wake. All hail Isabella of Angouleme, the ultimate hot mess who defied expectations at every turn, ending her days in the nunnery after an attempt to assassinate a king. You honestly couldn't make it up.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, I mean, I'm not. I'm pleased that Matilda of Flanders won it over her because it's nice when you know the goody wins, but you can have Rexy. Bad, bad guys. The Terminator.

[Graham Duke]

Well, indeed. So, final comment, Isabella, in the Rex Factor episode of Sigrid the Haughty when Andy of Saga thing derided his podcast partner for choosing, quote, the worst of all possible people, he quipped, there's more than one way to be outstanding. I could not summon a more perfect definition of rexy, nor one that is more apt for Isabella.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, yeah, quite right.

[Graham Duke]

Top spot, however, did go to Matilda of Flanders. She got the honorary Rex Factor, though not everyone was enamoured with her. I still find myself completely forgetting Matilda's story within minutes of hearing it.

[Ali Hook]

Me too.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah. I'm saying I'm not sure if that was your. If you did this one.

[Ali Hook]

I mean, I really do. That's the thing. There's nothing I can't. Every time you tell me, I go, yeah, yeah. Well, you've described the perfect Rex Factor winner, but there's just no. It's like trying to catch a cloud.

[Graham Duke]

There was support with caveats. I agree with the decision not to give any of them the Rex Factor. I. It was correct that they were neons rather than actuals, but I do think Matilda is the highest performing consort who was not quite rexy enough. She's an excellent all rounder, ticking all the boxes without being overburdened in any of them. Good agency for herself and her children without being in outright rebellion a potential romantic interest in her husband's rival without any evidence of an actual affair. Patronage of institutions, but no major lasting legacy. Long marriage, short English consortship, lots of children, but no queen mothership. She's very much a jack of all trades.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, yeah. And. And like being the consort of the conqueror. No one else has sort of conquered the whole of England like that, have they?

[Graham Duke]

Well, I guess of the. In this particular period of a completely Foreign person.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah. Oh, right, yeah. Rather than Tudors or something. Yeah. A bit like you never choose Mario on Mario Kart. Best all rounder. You're always gonna go for the extremes.

[Graham Duke]

Or I mean, I'm always bowser more enthusiastically. However, it's her rexy moment and she does have a proper rexy moment. As this person says, it's the standing at the front of the ship, wind in her hair, greeting William. Such a badass moment. So much Rex factor.

[Ali Hook]

She's even got a Rex acting moment. That's right. She could quite easily grace the COVID of this book.

[Graham Duke]

And a Rex actor moment involving a boat that she commissions.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, I mean that. That's like she was trying to work out how to be on the COVID of the book.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah.

[Ali Hook]

You know we say sword held aloft for the. For the monarchs. This is her defining that. And the point of this book was to shine a light on the lesser known ones. So it's fitting that she's on the front. But yeah, you have to do have to search around for her name

[Graham Duke]

and then realize that there are other ones that it might be and it's actually not her. And you have to then try and remember which one she is and you

[Ali Hook]

just can't remember and then take a punt on Isabella and ask if she was the one with the boat. Round one losers among the Rex Factor winners.

[Graham Duke]

We did votes for final positions for all 19 who got the Rex factor. And that started with the seven consorts eliminated in the first round of the playoffs. So 19th position we had and we're just going to do sort of one or maybe two quotes for each of these because we've got quite a lot. 19th position. So last in this vote was Caroline of Brunswick. George IV's best efforts, so unsurprisingly, not festooned with praise. But I did quite think this was quite an appropriate sort of note to end on for both of them. Caroline last because, well, Caroline being married to George would have been rough on anyone, to be fair, but being married to her was rough on him too. What's the inverse of a power couple?

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, yeah. Really true. Like who, Sid and Nancy or something?

[Graham Duke]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ali Hook]

Can't think of any others. Yeah, that is really true. He actually sort of had to marry someone as chaotic as him, otherwise we didn't have to, you know, it probably you have to be mad to marry him.

[Graham Duke]

In 18th position for the series was Mary of Tech. And I enjoyed this anecdote which I hadn't come across before. I voted for Mary because there's a story about her that I would class as being worth at least half a scandal point because she didn't get anything for scandal. Since she was so proper, people started circulating stories, probably not true, where they would tell her something scandalous and she would react stoically. The best example has her at a hospital meeting a new mother. She supposedly commented that the baby had a different colour hair than the mother and asked if it was the same color as its father. The mother replied, I'm sure I don't know, marm. He never took his hat off. Too silly not to include.

[Ali Hook]

And what was her reaction then, you know.

[Graham Duke]

Well, presumably, as ever, with her stony face and stoical.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, you see, that's why she's languishing. I was expecting a zinger. Right back

[Graham Duke]

in 17th we have Elizabeth Bowes Lyon. One doubter put it very succinctly. The Queen Mother's having a giraffe in this company, whereas a supporter, the Queen Mum was my number one over Albert in round one loses. She led England through the war, supported and gave confidence to George VI and had Hitler scared.

[Ali Hook]

I mean, that's what did it for me.

[Graham Duke]

I think that was when you said about why did she and Mary get it and Philip didn't? For me, I think it was the fact that Mary and. And Elizabeth Bowes Lyon, their significant consort ships were during the two world wars, whereas Philip's sort of most impressive moment perhaps is during the war, but just as a soldier rather than as a consort or as a royal. And maybe that was that he didn't have the big event. And I think that's maybe for the modern monarchs or consorts. For me, what I decided they needed, they needed really the big events to elevate the sort of day to day.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Graham Duke]

Fourth in the group. So 16th overall was Edgyver of Kent. So one of our earlier ones, Saxons, First Queen Grandmother.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, she is in that pile. But I think actually when you give that short subtitle to each one, she's the one who. Who invited her sons over and they ended up dying. Or one of them eventually became king and she was banished away. And then eventually. Who's that then?

[Graham Duke]

Emma of Normandy. The thing is, Graham, we talk. We've usually we do one and then it's two weeks before we do the other one and then it'll be months between them. But this, these playoffs, we're doing about 30 of them all at the same time. And you expect me to be able to tell the difference.

[Ali Hook]

It's like you Suddenly armed yourself with a machine gun. You're just peppering me with them.

[Graham Duke]

So, Ed Giva is consort to Edward the Elder, but she's Queen mother to two kings and then she's Queen grandmother to two kings and she's a patron to Dunstan. Okay, maybe the comments will help. One praised her politicking. If Alfred can make the monarch final, then Edgyver has enough subtext to deserve a high ranking turbo granny helping establish the religious infrastructure of England. Somehow persuading Athelstan never to have children of his own. If this was a book. 100%. They had an affair and her kids are his. And something we can all get behind in the end. I put Ed Gever first because introducing Dunstan and helping to annoy Ally over a thousand years after her death has to be worth something.

[Ali Hook]

Um, well, I mean, she tried writing a book about herself and I've still forgotten her name, so maybe it rubs both ways.

[Graham Duke]

And that's not her, that's Emma of Dormancy.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, I mean, I knew that as I was saying that. Emma. But then I tell you what, it is jolly hard when you do more than one.

[Graham Duke]

I mean, the good news is that you do now have a lot of Emma of Normandy story in your head.

[Ali Hook]

It's all. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to go over old ground, but it is jolly hard not to have Emma of Normandy as married to William the Conqueror.

[Graham Duke]

Normandy, Normandy.

[Ali Hook]

Matilda of Flanders. So you've got. You've got the wrong. You chose the wrong name tag.

[Graham Duke]

Albeit now we're talking about Edgyver of Kent. So sort of.

[Ali Hook]

See what I mean? And now she's gone way out the window.

[Graham Duke]

Elizabeth Woodville. We can remember that one.

[Ali Hook]

Here we go.

[Graham Duke]

Yes. She came 15th and had plenty of support. The world going to hell, royals and nobility dropping like flies. She survives and fights for the family that is left to her with no foreign royal houses to rely on.

[Ali Hook]

That's a good point.

[Graham Duke]

And also, I bloody love Lizzie W. She absolutely has the Rex factor. I ranked her highest because she had genuine political influence during a turbulent period, navigated a secret royal marriage and actively positioned her family within power structures. Controversial, yes, but I feel that stems from her effectiveness and visibility. She shaped dynastic politics more than most consorts ever did.

[Ali Hook]

I hadn't really thought about that, coming from a more humble background, not having that sort of like security behind you.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah, because even Anne Boleyn, not that she particularly got on well with him or it helped, but, you know, her uncle was the Duke of Norfolk. So it wasn't that she was a complete.

[Ali Hook]

You know, it does make you sympathize with the fact that she tried to get all of her people in then.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah.

[Ali Hook]

In case something like this happened.

[Graham Duke]

Exactly.

[Ali Hook]

I need to go back and have a look at her.

[Graham Duke]

Prince Albert was second in the group, so 14th of the series and remained a divisive figure. So we speculated on whether he might get a more sympathetic hearing having been knocked out of the playoffs. One person, simply put, still don't like Albert. Shrug.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, he's very divisive, isn't he?

[Graham Duke]

Likewise. I just think Albert is such a moralizing prick. Admittedly a lot of the good subjectivity probably comes from that route. But he's so dull. Also can't forgive him. What sounds to modern ears like coercive and controlling behaviour.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, but I mean so does. But Victoria was displaying some sort of something that would definitely be diagnosed these days as well, I think.

[Graham Duke]

But others spoke up in defense of him. Albert should have gone through to the semi finals. He was robbed. Rejecting his accomplishments because he didn't overthrow the empire or because he was a white male is very harsh as to his relationship with Victoria. As Ali said, they each gave as good as they got. Both are damaged by terrible childhoods and losing a parent, but responded in different ways. I think they both had mental health issues and would never see a situation the same way. Clearly there was love and chemistry but they needed couples counseling.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah. And I wonder whether this isn't really historical, historically relevant. I wonder whether it will if the Victoria's idea idolizing of him after he's gone is something to do with that.

[Graham Duke]

Very, very.

[Ali Hook]

Because it's all. It's all just so impassioned the whole thing, isn't it?

[Graham Duke]

Hmm. Others however were more succinct in their support. The first ever 20 for subjectivity and he gave his name to a cock ring. What could be Rexia.

[Ali Hook]

20 for subjectivity.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah. Just trying to think of something that. I mean I'm think I can think why he might get a high one but I don't know what can't think of anyone else I suppose could challenge him.

[Graham Duke]

Well, I mean the person who came top in this group was also a very strong subjectivity one which was Matilda of Scotland. So she was Henry I's first consort. So she's the Saxon Scottish princess that brings the Alfred's line.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, I was going to say that before you said Henry the first. He seems too late to be talking about Saxons but it's not really Is it. It's only.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah.

[Ali Hook]

It's not quite 100. What was it? 1066. So when's. When's Henry, like 11?

[Graham Duke]

He's the son of Henry the First. Yeah. So 11, he becomes king.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah. I don't know what part of the British education system it is, but something has driven a massive wedge between anything that happens pre1066 and stuff.

[Graham Duke]

After Normans come in and say, this is the new beginning, everything else doesn't count.

[Ali Hook]

But isn't it amazing that survived?

[Graham Duke]

Yeah.

[Ali Hook]

We really don't think. We think of sort of history starting at 1066.

[Graham Duke]

Hmm.

[Ali Hook]

It's like pre Premier League football.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah. Anyway, a message of support for the winner of the round one losers contest. So 13th for the series, Matilda of Scotland. I only really love one person here, so the winner was easy. She would be on top for me, just for bringing back the Anglo Saxon line into the post conquest throne. But she did so much more than that, so my bias is justified. She was charitable beyond what was expected, sponsored the arts and served as regent many times. Doing a good job at that. She was the perfect medieval consort and then some, bringing back the rightful line to the throne to boot. Live laugh. Love Matilda.

[Ali Hook]

Semi final losers.

[Graham Duke]

So continuing with giving the final positions, we then set about ranking the eight consorts eliminated in the semi finals of the playoffs. So bottom of the semi finals, 12th overall was Henrietta Maria.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah.

[Graham Duke]

Gun runner.

[Ali Hook]

Just.

[Graham Duke]

Just unlikable comment against her. Henrietta Maria, although her story is great, her subjectivity let her down massively and helped cause the Civil War. Yeah, you're not meant to be the cause of a war for all the wrong reasons.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah. It's not like a Helen of Troy situation.

[Graham Duke]

But celebrating her star moment, Henrietta Maria punching through a window was one of my favourite unexpected moments of the Consult series.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, I'll go with that. I wasn't. Yeah, I wasn't expecting that.

[Graham Duke]

Next up, finishing 11th, Catherine Parr. Amy ran out of steam a bit in the playoffs. It sort of felt when we did her episode, like she really made an impact. But then once she got amongst the others, perhaps didn't quite.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah.

[Graham Duke]

Stack up as much, but nevertheless, one last chance for her. Clarion call. Yee haw. Kathryn Pa. She's such a perfect example of the possibilities of women in power and the obstacles they face. And it doesn't hurt that she closes out the consort saga, which I. The six wives of.

[Ali Hook]

Oh, I see.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah. Yeah,

[Ali Hook]

yeah, she's great. She's great.

[Graham Duke]

Now elf frith. So pre1066 was the third seed by score, but as one of the most obscure, the Rex Factor winners probably still did pretty well to come 10th. So she's Edgar's consort, the one who's the first actually crowned queen. Consortium. Evil stepmother that murders.

[Ali Hook]

Oh, yeah, Murders her. Yeah.

[Graham Duke]

Abbott of the Castle.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, Abbott of Ely. Yes, that's her. What's her name?

[Graham Duke]

Elfrith.

[Ali Hook]

Elfrith and the Abbot of Ely. Okay. Stabby. Stabby and the Abbot of Ely.

[Graham Duke]

So, a comment. For the past few months, Elfrith has actually become my favourite to win. She scored highly in all the factors and was the first damn queen of England proper. Called and crowned queen, no less, and ruling with unprecedented power for a consort. Mark my words, she would have made it to the final if she truly had turned herself into a horse and killed a bishop. In ninth place, favourite of yours and many others, Caroline of Ansbach.

[Ali Hook]

Yep, here she is.

[Graham Duke]

Caroline of Anne's back has for me the best subjectivity of any queen you've covered. And as you pointed out several times, it's remarkable that she was such a fantastic and memorable queen, even in times of peace. She feels like the one I would most want to be the subject of.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, if she were. If she were Queen, well, then, Queen Consort. But, yeah, she'd have done so much more.

[Graham Duke]

Also, I ranked Caroline of Ansbach first because I think we need to lift up a consort who accomplished wonderful things within the typical confines of the consort role. Most of the queens we celebrated look more like kings. So in other words, she's. She's actually achieved great things by being your sort of standard within the box, within the rules, consort. Whereas Eleanor, breaking out, Isabella, Emma, all kind of. Yeah, perhaps celebrated for not just being a queen Consort. Whereas actually, Caroline Ransbach is just doing the job really, really, really well.

[Ali Hook]

Well, she's got the. She is actually just doing the job, isn't she? Instead of kinging, she is actually king rather than pretending to be one.

[Graham Duke]

In eighth place, perhaps the most controversial of them all, Anne Boleyn. Inevitably, some remained opposed. Ah, can't believe you're making me rank Anne Boleyn again. I desperately want to be fair to her, but I can't like her. And I'm aware that's mostly because when I first watched David Starkey's the Six Wives of Henry VIII when I was a young child, I immediately identify with Princess Mary and happily hated Anne with her for the rest of my childhood. As an adult, I can understand that she was in a difficult position and made the best of it and your episodes on her really helped me appreciate what an impressive woman she was. But my inner child still just shouts boo. Evil stepmother. Whenever she's mentioned me too. However, others were very much team Anne. I still think Anne should have won it all. No other consort made a bigger impact than she did on modern day Britain.

[Ali Hook]

That's absolutely true as well, isn't it? It's possible to be both at once.

[Graham Duke]

And I just had to vote Anne Boleyn at the top. Mental to me that she was not in the final. How many films have been made about her? You might not like her, but she absolutely had that certain something. She must have. Look at what Henry did to make her his queen.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, I completely agree. But there are. Imagine if she'd won't. I mean, she's got to sit somewhere in amongst some greats and she's made the top ten.

[Graham Duke]

Yep. Another favorite of yours, Matilda of Bologne finished seventh.

[Ali Hook]

Steven's wife.

[Graham Duke]

Yes.

[Ali Hook]

Yes. And that was a Matilda of Bloyne.

[Graham Duke]

She won a lot of support, though some still hold her role in the anarchy against her. I like Matilda of Boulogne and she did what a good consort is expected to do and supported her husband. But without her, I don't think Stephen would have tried to take the throne. There would have been no anarchy and England might have had a female ruler 400 years earlier.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah. But I mean, that wouldn't have been close to a consideration.

[Graham Duke]

No. It wouldn't have been on her pros and cons.

[Ali Hook]

She's. Do you know what? I think of Matilda as so much the good guy in that situation. As in, sorry, Empress Matilda because of the promise that all the lords made and broke.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah.

[Ali Hook]

That I remember when we were doing this. Matilda of. Thinking of her as like, this is a bit of a random one. Some random, like lord's wife up north that he was. She was actually to me, like the wife of a. Of a duke or something rather than an actual consort. I think so much, so much Team Matilda. But then upon hearing her story, I think that's why I like her. Because it dispelled a myth.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah.

[Graham Duke]

And indeed, in her support. Matilda of Bologne is a standout of the series for me. Knowing about her provides so much more context for just why the Empress failed to become Queen regnant.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah.

[Graham Duke]

It really was Matilda versus Matilda. Steven was just the man with a fancy hat she propped up and would have given up far sooner if not for her.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah. It was Matilda versus Matilda.

[Graham Duke]

Particularly the way that he literally does give up pretty much as soon as she ties. Yeah, you have it. You have it. Ethelflaed, lady of the Mercians, won the public vote, but finished third overall, so sixth for the series. Some continued to question her place in the contest. I understand her importance and respect her accomplishments, but I still don't think she should have been part of this series.

[Ali Hook]

Mm.

[Graham Duke]

But others disagreed. I can't not vote for Aethelflaed. The constant harping that she shouldn't be covered as a consort is a bit. Is a bit ridiculous, given that England wasn't properly united until the next generation. The other consorts of the time and of Alfred's time should also have been covered. And she's a badass, so there's no denying her position.

[Ali Hook]

We've gotta have a controversial one and she's filling that role nicely, so don't get trapped in the void.

[Graham Duke]

Margaret of Anjou was top for the semi finalists, so finished fifth overall. Mark from Hexam commented. I was gutted Marco Devonjo didn't make the final, but maybe her ending up here better reflects her luck in life, if not her ability.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, I was gutted. I thought she might be. She was the one I really liked, wasn't she? The fighter is Edward Vincent.

[Graham Duke]

No. No.

[Ali Hook]

Henry vi.

[Graham Duke]

Yes.

[Ali Hook]

Thank you.

[Graham Duke]

Do you remember who beat her in the semi finals?

[Ali Hook]

No.

[Graham Duke]

Catherine of Aragon.

[Ali Hook]

Well, that's disappointing.

[Graham Duke]

Hold that there. Others had your back as well as Margaret's. Margaret of Anjou for Ali.

[Ali Hook]

Thanks.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah. So those are the semi final ones. We will next have a look at some of the messages from the series 4 vote after a quick break. So good, so good, so good. New markdowns up to 70% off are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. And that means so many new reasons to rack, because I always find something amazing.

[Ali Hook]

Just so many good brands because there's always something new.

[Graham Duke]

Join the NordicLub to unlock exclusive, exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. Series 4 privy councillors were asked to vote on whether we would do Scottish consorts or English nearly monarchs for the next series of Rex Factor. And remarkably, by just one vote, the decision was to do the English nearly monarch. So obviously, consequently, almost half, almost exactly half of voters didn't get what they voted for.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, I mean, I think most. Most of the messages are going to be negative in that sense, aren't they? Because you more like to complain than praise.

[Graham Duke]

Well, these messages are the ones that they left when voting. So this is before the result. So I guess when we come to do reaction ones, maybe that's when we will. So looking at the comments people left has been quite interesting for revealing the different perspectives on why people voted for the two series. So, looking at the Scots first, there were, you know, nine, a few comments who said that they just thought it would be easier for me in terms of lighter, less research, heavy series. Yeah. Which is nice of them. There were 19 who commented that they were basically just more keen to do some Scottish history and also that felt that the Scottish Consorts was a more clearly defined series.

[Ali Hook]

Yes. Yeah.

[Graham Duke]

So an example of that. One of the things I love about Rex Factor is that it tells a continuous story through history. Jump around history, even if done in order, appeals less to me because obviously with the Nearly Monarchs, it won't be an immediate continuation from one to the other. There will be gaps.

[Ali Hook]

I do. I mean, my, you know, my. I don't want to surprise you, but I've got quite a scattered brain and it does keep me interested jumping around like that.

[Graham Duke]

To be honest, Graham, if we're not jumping around technically, in terms of what I remember, I will be jumping around. So you might as well skip a few because, you know, you might as

[Ali Hook]

well random it up before it goes through this randomizer generator that I call my brain.

[Graham Duke]

Anyway, there were a number of people who commented suggesting that the Nearly Monarchs could just be covered as special episodes, given that we had already done two.

[Ali Hook]

That's a big ask though, isn't it?

[Graham Duke]

As I said, it's not an argument I'm fond of, because there will be more in the Nearly Monarch series than there would have been in the Scottish Consorts. So it doesn't really. You couldn't have just done all of them, so not a viable option. However, I suppose this was quite a valid point that somebody made. Along similar lines, the Nearly stand chances of special episodes in the future, while the Scottish consorts do not.

[Ali Hook]

Oh, yeah.

[Graham Duke]

So in other words, it's unlikely that any of the Scottish consorts will get special episode treatment, so they may be a bit more reliant on having their own series to get centred in that way.

[Ali Hook]

But after you finish with the French, maybe you want to have something light like that and small, whereas you're not going to get all those Neely's Ass specials.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah, exactly. The counter is also that perhaps that means that the Scottish consorts are less interesting as a group than the English Nearly Monarchs. So maybe that's a reason to Go the other way, counter, counter. Is that if we did do the Scottish ones and then do some special episodes on nearly monarchs, as somebody pointed out, that would take away all of the other ones. So they said if we don't do the nearly monarchs now, then I fear we'll end up picking off a handful of the more famous names in special episodes and using that as an excuse never to come back for. For the rest.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah.

[Graham Duke]

Whereas the Scottish consorts will probably will sit there as a ready go.

[Ali Hook]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Graham Duke]

Third most common comment was that the Scottish consorts were more unknown or less familiar. So in other words, people were keen to find out about something completely new rather than stories that maybe they'd already heard a certain amount about. Which again was interesting. I was saying about whether Privy Councillors might be a little bit more interested in the niche in the unknown where perhaps would be more drawn as to how many of these have I heard of.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah.

[Graham Duke]

Second most common comment was that it was a chance of more female centered history.

[Ali Hook]

Yes, true.

[Graham Duke]

With a few chaps at the end for Mary Queen of Scots mistress. And this particularly with a view to the fact that because of obviously Salic Law, the fifth series on French monarchs will be entirely male.

[Ali Hook]

Oh, yeah.

[Graham Duke]

By necessity there won't be any female monarchs because the French didn't let that happen. So it's this comment. Perhaps the consort series focus on women has been so refreshing and very revealing. Your work over the past few years has really brought these historical women out of the shadows and I'd love to see the Scottish consorts get the same treatment.

[Ali Hook]

That is. That isn't. That is true, isn't it? It's going to be very heavy on the fellas.

[Graham Duke]

It is. So I mean, the series four will have some nearly female monarchs or nearly female nearly monarchs, But. Yes, but series five. Yes, it does then go all out male, albeit was obviously significant women. I think it's gonna be stories.

[Ali Hook]

It's gonna be better for our hits though, isn't it? Stories that people are familiar with, they want to be told about. Then Ethel Mc. Ethel Fred.

[Graham Duke]

However, by far the most common comment in terms of why people voted for the Scots was the desire for symmetry or completion.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, that's mine.

[Graham Duke]

So English monarchs, Scottish monarchs, English consorts. It would complete the pattern if it was Scottish consorts or another way of looking at it that I enjoyed from the comments. I'm going with the consorts just to complete the set. Whomarriediath.

[Ali Hook]

Oh man, that is a great point. We should just put that episode out like Just. And then run credits.

[Graham Duke]

Now moving on to the Nearly Monarchs, I felt there were sort of fewer clear, strong themes about people voting for the Nearly Monarch, so perhaps just more generic comments of positivity rather than these obvious groupings. There were a few people though, ironically, who said that they wanted this for a sense of completion. Not the symmetry of the Scots, but the sense that some of those big names like Matilda Black Prince, Lady Jane Grey, names that have come up a lot on Rex Factor, so they're almost like missing pieces of jigsaw from series one and three. So the Nearly Monarchs is a way just to fill in those little gaps where it's like there's a. There's a hole here, there's a space here shaped like Lady Jane Grey and we never fill it in.

[Ali Hook]

That is such a good way of looking at. That is exactly it. That is exactly it. Because. And then. And the Scots do stay there as a. As a filler series. Ready?

[Graham Duke]

Some simply more interested in prospect of English history than Scottish history. Quite a few were attracted by the greater variety promised by the Nearly. So one person said they liked the thought of how random it's going to be. Another highlighted the new angle it would be provide. While some encountered the broken timeline mentioned earlier, liked the idea of jumping across periods a bit more. I suppose what you were saying earlier, that tend to be a bit more jump around. Another one said that they were a bit consorted out at the moment, so didn't want two series in a row on consorts.

[Ali Hook]

No, I don't think I've ever. I ever thought of them as different. It's just I suppose there's less physical battles. We haven't had any physical battles for a while, have we?

[Graham Duke]

Like a big attraction was the opportunity to cover some big names in English history. And I said already. But there was one name in particular that kept coming up in the comments. I think Ali finally deserves to know who Lady Jane Grey is.

[Ali Hook]

I think Ali finally deserves to know as well because, I mean, I'm still hearing the name a lot. No closer. People keep saying I should know or why don't you know? So I would just tell me. Why isn't anyone telling me?

[Graham Duke]

Well, you will find out in series four.

[Ali Hook]

Okay.

[Graham Duke]

Not the the only name to come up though. But one person was attracted by one of the ones already covered in the special episode. Your podcast. A special episode podcast on Edgar the Etheling was the second best podcast I've ever listened to. The best one was the History is Sexy episode where they go through boney M's Rasputin, line by line and fact check it. Maybe series six needs to be historical song themed.

[Ali Hook]

So we're doing an Edgar the Etheling episode then?

[Graham Duke]

Yes, we will. So Matilda and Edgar the Etheling that we did special episodes on. We will do them as part of the series. So we will do.

[Ali Hook]

That's cool. They get two episodes.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah. The other thing to remember, I can't remember if I said this already or not, but I guess that. And this is obviously mainly Privy councillors have been making this point, but actually most listeners won't have heard our special episodes on Edgar the Atheling and Matilda Scott. Matilda Empress Matilda.

[Ali Hook]

Yes.

[Graham Duke]

Because you either have to be special episode and above tier or you have to purchase those. So the vast majority of listeners won't have heard those episodes. So it's not going to be a repetition for most people. They won't have heard those ones.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, yeah, good point.

[Graham Duke]

Or as one person is hoping, Moore Dunstan.

[Ali Hook]

Well, that's inevitable.

[Graham Duke]

Whatever.

[Ali Hook]

Up in the French as well. I'm sure. Of course he will. He'll be sniffing out anything that has the word French on the end of it.

[Graham Duke]

There are quite a few who are looking forward to us engaging in some counterfactual history.

[Ali Hook]

Oh, right, yeah.

[Graham Duke]

That sense of.

[Ali Hook]

I do like a counterfactual.

[Graham Duke]

Exactly. So that will be fun in this series.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah. I thought it meant that that was the purpose of this series that we're gonna. I mean, I suppose that is what they're saying. That's true. This is gonna be great. It's not quite like Lendi Dayton's ssgb, but it's. It's getting close.

[Graham Duke]

Maybe. Maybe the Privy Chambers. We can just sort of reimagine what their reigns would have been like.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah. All right.

[Graham Duke]

The main recurring theme, however, was that people thought the nearly monarchs would be more interesting or would have more information than the Scottish consorts.

[Ali Hook]

That's that. And I mean, yes, the completeness argument was the one that bowled me over most. But then when that person was saying about it actually is a completist argument to do the nearlys that. That cemented my. My thought that this is a good thing because they are just. There is just going to be load of fascinating tales. Okay. Yeah, it's going to be great then. How are you gonna do it? Are we starting at. Are we doing it in chronological order?

[Graham Duke]

Yeah, it'll be chronological. So we're starting Saxon, obviously.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Graham Duke]

And finally, given how close the vote was, one person had a compromise suggestion do both

[Ali Hook]

well, yeah. Alright. Grand final.

[Graham Duke]

So in the grand final of the main series, we had Elena of Aquitaine coming out on top as our series champion and she ahead of Isabella of France, Emma of Normandy and Catherine of Aragon. So Catherine Aragon came obviously last in the final, but obviously that's still a very impressive fourth across the series. A couple of people were against her in order to settle some scores, such as this one. Justice for Margaret. Suck it, Catherine.

[Ali Hook]

Which Margaret?

[Graham Duke]

Because as you will recall, I said to keep that in mind. Catherine knocked Margaret out in the semi finals.

[Ali Hook]

Oh. I thought she was like one of Henry's children or something.

[Graham Duke]

No.

[Ali Hook]

Wasn't there a Margaret that married a Scot?

[Graham Duke]

Yes. Henry's sister, Margaret Tudor, married James iv

[Ali Hook]

who got blown up by a cannon.

[Graham Duke]

No, that was James ii. James IV died at Flodden Newey died in battle. In terms of more constructive argument against Catherine, I don't get the love for Catherine of Aragon. She fought so hard to stay in a marriage the other person didn't want. That would be considered very toxic today. I don't believe for one second she did it for her daughter Mary, considering she was also telling her daughter to sacrifice herself. And life would have been much better for Mary if Catherine just went along with Henry. I understand Henry's desire to not leave the country to instability. Considering what happened to Catherine's own sister when she tried to rule as the queen in her own right, there was no reason to believe Mary would ever be a successful queen.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, I totally get all those points, but it isn't. It isn't like staying in a marriage. It's diplomacy rather than an actual marriage.

[Graham Duke]

So in defense of her stubbornness, as it's been called, I do think people can be slightly unfair to Catherine with suggesting that she should have just allowed Henry to divorce her. As a modern audience, I think we forget how important religion is. Catherine truly believed that she was to be Queen of England. She believed it was her duty to God and she did a good job. She's not just a stubborn woman. I believe many of us would have done the same if we were her, but probably would not have had the resilience and passion to do so.

[Ali Hook]

Mm. Yeah. That's where my admiration for her comes from.

[Graham Duke]

And a fulsome argument in her favour. Catherine of Aragon has done it for me battally in that she had a literal battle. The greatest victory of Henry VIII's reign.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah.

[Graham Duke]

Her agency as regent, ability to dissimulate and work the court to her favor. The first female ambassador in Europe, raising the first queen regnant in English history. She was stalwart, proud and righteous to the end, beloved all her life by the people and a Persona of intelligence, poise, canniness and gravitas. Plus her resistance to Henry's will and her insistence that she is the true queen of England is the very reason Henry VIII ultimately breaks with the Catholic Church and founds Church of England. Not something Catherine would have appreciated, but nevertheless, legacy, etc. Her name echoes down the ages in a way that overshadows the others in terms of that certain something. Catherine of Aragon has it. I'd love to see her up against Henry II and Robert the Bruce. I'd hoist her banners at that battle to glorious victory.

[Ali Hook]

But it's the. It's that thing about. Can you. Margaret Venjou, who ultimately lost. Did. Did Catherine ultimately lose because she actually. She siphoned off a great big part of the Catholic world to Protestantism?

[Graham Duke]

Well, she didn't, but.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, but her action, I mean, she. Imagine she had rolled over, so to speak. Henry wouldn't have had. No, I mean, there we go. Look what you've made me do.

[Graham Duke]

Exactly.

[Ali Hook]

But. But that's all. The very fact that she did that is why she got the rex factor. It's just such a.

[Graham Duke]

If you just rolled over, it wouldn't have been rexy.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, yeah.

[Graham Duke]

And also, of course, you know, had Mary had a child by Philip ii, then England would have stayed Catholic and.

[Ali Hook]

Well, maybe.

[Graham Duke]

Funny little blip.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, yeah. A forgotten weird mad king.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah.

[Ali Hook]

But maybe she did win because. Because of Mary coming to the throne and restoring Catholicism. I mean, the fact that that ultimately gets turned over, I mean, how long do you have to. How long does the victory have to last?

[Graham Duke]

Third place, Emma of Normandy, probably the least famous of the three. Indeed. You're sort of still sort of struggling to fully hone down. Although, as I said, she's the one that you have actually been referencing in terms of stuff that happened. It's just.

[Ali Hook]

Well, exactly. There's. There's someone up there who keeps getting. Having different labels applied to them.

[Graham Duke]

She didn't win everyone over. And some did reference your lack of connection with her. I'm with Ali. There's just something about her that isn't clicking. Maybe it's because we don't get enough of her personality through her story. Conversely, some felt the need to get some justice for Emma. On that front, I've put Emma of Normandy first, not only because she is brilliant consort who is less well known in the popular imagination. But also because Ally has done her dirty in the playoffs so far and this needs rectifying.

[Ali Hook]

I don't know what. Why have I done what?

[Graham Duke]

Done her dirty?

[Ali Hook]

Because I haven't been voting for her.

[Graham Duke]

Well, yes. So in the first round, the public put her first and you put her fourth out of five. And then in the semi finals, the public put her first and you put her third out of three.

[Ali Hook]

Well, she's done all right, isn't she? Where is she? I mean, imagine if I hadn't done my duty there. She says dirty, I say duty.

[Graham Duke]

A teacher's perspective. As a history teacher in training, I simply considered which of these women I would like to introduce to my students the most. And the answer was clear. It had to be Emma of Normandy. Mostly because of the history she commissioned. As a woman in power, she must have known that her legacy would be tainted with all sorts of misogynistic lies. By commissioning a history, she told us exactly how she wanted to be remembered. Throughout history, the voices of women have been ignored, silenced and ridiculed. Emma of Normandy ensured that hers would still be heard centuries after her death. This is an incredible display of agency that I would like all my students to learn about.

[Ali Hook]

You wouldn't actually want to meet them because they'd have some very, very awful views about people.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah, but they all would, wouldn't they?

[Ali Hook]

Exactly. The only one you ever want to meet is the most recent one, surely, and even then.

[Graham Duke]

And ironically, he's the one that gets all the.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, exactly.

[Graham Duke]

And finally, Eleanor was the favourite coming in. But Emma's story is just too good not to vault her to victory. Eleanor and Isabella turned on their husbands. Not ideal consort behavior. Catherine was impressive, but ultimately a loser. Emma was twice consort, supported both husbands, was a great partner to Knut, and then fought like hell to get her sons on the throne. I want to see a Netflix series on her.

[Ali Hook]

That is tricky, isn't it? That if you are going to go against the monarch, which therefore is bad consortship, you have to win to make it rexy or be sort of. What's her name? Catherine of Braganza. Do I mean that?

[Graham Duke]

Don't think so.

[Ali Hook]

Crazy, is it?

[Graham Duke]

Spell of Rongelen?

[Ali Hook]

Oh, who knows?

[Graham Duke]

Anyway, Caroline of Brunswick. Yeah, yeah, whatever. Come on, seriously, it's dynamic. Stop throwing these names at me. Quite. I mean, too late now.

[Ali Hook]

I mean, for goodness sake.

[Graham Duke]

Now. Isabella of France was the runner up in the series. Many people have been backing her for the win, though she did have her detractors. I appreciate that she overthrew her husband, but I think she benefited a lot from her husband being a waste of space. If she were in Eleanor's situation, I doubt she would have achieved anything, as Henry was far more competent and supported than Edward.

[Ali Hook]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Graham Duke]

I. E. The argument that Isabella does defeat her husband, but her husband is Edward ii, whereas Alanis is Henry ii.

[Ali Hook]

But she does it. No one else does.

[Graham Duke]

Only beat what's put in front of you.

[Ali Hook]

It's like when people say about Damien Hirst's shark or something, say, well, I could have done that. We did it

[Graham Duke]

for a number of people. The regency in Roger Mortimer was the big negative against Isabella. Isabella, shame on you. I was rooting for you until you let your lover take control of the country when you should have been going son, but had to be overthrown as well. How does that make you any better than the husband you deposed?

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, it reminds me of. Don't tell me. For goodness sake. We've got Catherine Parr. It's got a bit touch of Catherine Parr in the later years.

[Graham Duke]

Thomas Seymour Bloomin.

[Ali Hook]

And then you get Thomas Seymour and Mortimer. I mean, that's not there for.

[Graham Duke]

No. Well, I guess at least Mortimer served a purpose in that, you know, had the army at the army. So she.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah.

[Graham Duke]

In a way that Thomas Seymour didn't serve any purpose other than just her own.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah.

[Graham Duke]

Loves and desires, which you could argue is fair enough. But.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, but you know what I mean, though, it's got.

[Graham Duke]

Oh, no, yeah, definitely. Definitely that same thing of like, oh, it was so amazing. And then he sort of spoil it all with a man that ruins it.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah. Like, unlike an old person who gets scammed into something. Yeah.

[Graham Duke]

You do feel like if Isabella hadn't been so enthralled to Mortimer at the end and had been kind of completely in charge and had sort of done some proper handover to Edward and been like, yeah, right hand side. You think that's just all is you just directly go overthrow golden age of Edward iii. Then you think, well, yeah, that is perfect era.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah. Is the movie is right there and all of a sudden history focuses on that bit. But instead it's a bit like you find out that David Attenborough's had a mail order wife from the Far east for three years, you know,

[Graham Duke]

Anyway, back to Isabella, I guess. Guess that sort of the slight downer at the end for Isabella, as I guess for Eleanor, her sort of Diana is imprisoned by Henry ii, but then probably her crowning glory is when she comes out from imprisonment and Queen Mother to Richard and then to John. That's where we kind of see her at her full force. So she probably ends. She ends on more of a high and more of a sense of, yes, undefiable Eleanor. Whereas Isabella, just. Just after the glory.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, that. Imagine if Eleanor had died in prison.

[Graham Duke]

Might not even have the Rex factor, never mind winning the series.

[Ali Hook]

Certainly be down on those points for longevity of which she had loads at the end. Right after Henry.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah.

[Ali Hook]

Mind you, they're only worth half points, but definitely. Yeah, quite.

[Graham Duke]

Anyway, Isabella still obviously had plenty of fans. Absolutely shot past every other candidate and has no equal in the history of the crown. I had never heard of her before the podcast and after, I could not get enough of this. Ballsy, brave and bodacious lady. Beautiful, serious royal lineage, gets crowned back from usurping lover of husband, probably has her husband, the king, whacked, and tries to stay in control of kingdom despite having her son crowned and taking up with the lover when it's obvious she mustn't do this anymore. Her former co conspirator and lover is killed. She quietly regains regal grandmothership, develops strong ties with the daughter in law and dies at a ripe old age. Plus, let's not forget her son, who was another plus to her overall legacy.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, he was good, wasn't he? Edward iii. Is that right?

[Graham Duke]

That's right, yep. And finally, Eleanor and Isabella are both formidable queens, but the answer is as simple as this. Both tried to overthrow their husbands, but only one succeeded.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah.

[Graham Duke]

However, our champion in the end was Eleanor of Aquitaine with a very convincing 55% of the vote, albeit, again, there were some naysayers. Eleanor led an unsuccessful rebellion against the greatest king in English history. That is bad queenship. How great would Henry have been if she had just stuck by his side? She deserves to be last. Besides, she was most powerful in her own right. She rose the least. She might have been a great duchess and a great queen mother, but she was a bad queen.

[Ali Hook]

She rose the least. And, yeah, I mean. And that's bad. Consort ship. Are you going to remind me of all this stuff at the live show?

[Graham Duke]

Yeah, try to. Yeah. Okay. Yes.

[Ali Hook]

But I mean, they're points because they're. I'm not going to be as insightful as these guys.

[Graham Duke]

Bullet point there. I mean, that's definitely. Henry II's definitely nodding along with that, going, yeah, yeah, yeah, criticize me for this, finally.

[Ali Hook]

Or, how good would Eleanor have been if Henry hadn't been such a toad and locked her up?

[Graham Duke]

And also, you could Say, how good could Henry have been if he'd involved, rather than just taking all the power and not sharing and to rebel against him every five years.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, take that pin down. We'll remember this one.

[Graham Duke]

However, lots of positive comments for Eleanor, including a challenge to the idea of her winning being boring. As much as I love all the other consorts, Eleanor is clearly the rexiest queen of two countries, went on crusade, manipulated Henry even from her house arrest, and left a legacy that still resonates today. Maybe it's boring if Eleanor wins since Henry II won for the kings, but that is in large part because each made the other rexia.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, they really did.

[Graham Duke]

And we said before, but it's just such a, you know, if only we had a holbein for that court because, you know, Henry ii, Eleanor of Equitane, Henry ii, the. The son of the Empress Matilda.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah.

[Graham Duke]

Father of Richard the Lionheart and King John, William the Marshals, kicking around. What a court. Thomas. Becky,

[Ali Hook]

it makes sense that it's got two Rex factor grand finalists in it. I mean, I sort of feel more familiar with the Tudor court of Henry viii, but you're right, that would be bonza.

[Graham Duke]

And likewise, Eleanor has become such a Rex Factor icon that it feels we've lost perspective on how impressive she is and that she's not well known outside of historical circles. A while ago, some Privy councillors asked friends and family to name consorts and she barely came up. And way less than big hitters like the six wives. Like the six wives, Albert, and the modern consorts. To me, her winning is shining a light on a less well known but deserving figure.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah.

[Graham Duke]

But, yeah, no, I think it's true. Yeah. She. Outside of our history and kings and queens history bubble. I don't know. She is massively famous to the general public.

[Ali Hook]

I. I mean, I really don't think so, but she is. She suddenly loomed so large. See, as soon as I sort of. She's like a super massive gas that as soon as you take a peek into the consort world, who gets filled with this personality of Eleanor. Yeah. But that is good to get some perspective on that. All right. Yeah. I reckon if you went on the street, not many people would probably wouldn't have Henry II either, though. No, no, you guess it, because Henry's a good guess.

[Graham Duke]

And philosophy. Henry ii.

[Ali Hook]

Yeah, yeah.

[Graham Duke]

Continuing. I love all these queens and any one of them would be a worthy winner, but when it came down to it, I felt like I was looking for reasons why it shouldn't be Eleanor. And so Yeah, I do. I came to the conclusion that it should be Eleanor. Yeah. And finally, Eleanor all the way. There was almost never a more well traveled consort. And she's allowed to have a lower impact in subjectivity as a consort since she was pregnant for the majority of it. Ending a marriage on her. And that's even another thing. Like, I'm sure she was about 40, if not over 40 when she had John.

[Ali Hook]

Really? Back in the day. Yeah. I mean, gosh, I'm tired now. That is impressive, isn't it? Spent the whole time blooming pregnant, ending

[Graham Duke]

a marriage on her terms with Louis, and then actively choosing her own husband in a time where women were seen as cattle with a bit of bling is unreal and amazing. And it's very likely that without her direct support, her sons just couldn't maintain momentum. Henry knew how powerful she was, so he locked her up and then she was a boss bitch for the rest of her days.

[Ali Hook]

I'm assuming I'm taking that phrase at face value and green in good way. Yeah,

[Graham Duke]

I think it's just when at the end when you like have her in her seventies crossing the Pyrenees to collect queens for the France and you

[Ali Hook]

just think she's just, she sort of comes out of. Comes out of imprisonment and sees the board arranged in a way that she doesn't want, so takes Europe by the scruff of the neck, says, right, you're going over there, you come over here and now can I please just die?

[Graham Duke]

I should probably end also with a quote of the film which you're determined that you still don't like. Albeit the quotes always work well. Henry II in line of Winter, I'm married out of love, a woman out of legend.

[Ali Hook]

And those quotes work very well out of the context of that film. When they're not being rattled as off as it is if they're just reading them up in a script, we wish they were. You see, we're acting.

[Graham Duke]

See Rex Flicks correspondence corner. Anyway, that was our right to reply episode on the grand final results, obviously. Still, you can let us know your thoughts. Find the link to all of our social media profiles x Instagram threads [e-mail] or you can email rexfactorpodcastotmail.com if you would like to support the podcast. Then make sure you subscribe and donate monthly to join the Privy Council which gives you an ad free version of the main podcast and over 400 additional bonus podcast episodes.

[Ali Hook]

400. I mean, goodness gracious.

[Graham Duke]

And we have some new Privy Councillors to welcome to the fold Shannon Bernhardt, Danielle Ragavanis, Alison Henry, Laura Anderson, Daniel Lindbergh, Christy K, Tina Lang, Alex McKenzie, JP Johnson, Chris Thompson, Kristin Moovenian, John Brazier, Rory Scott, Megan Rose Donnelly and Anna Himian.

[Ali Hook]

Arise. Take your seat. I mean, choose which way around to do those. Stand up, sit down, Simon says. So those are the rules.

[Graham Duke]

That's all from us today. And as you said, that is it from series three of Rex Factor.

[Ali Hook]

Well, it's not though, is it? Because you dragged me out to blooming Ludlow to chatter more about it.

[Graham Duke]

Indeed. We've still got our live show in Ludlow on Friday 15th August, so if you're listening to this on the day it comes out, you still got another week if you want to book your tickets and come and see us.

[Ali Hook]

What I'm now calling the wrap party. Hmm. With a W. Just in case there's any confusion,

[Graham Duke]

after this, we'll be releasing an interview we did a good month ago now with Gareth Russell and James the first sixth of Scotland Queen. James.

[Ali Hook]

That was more than a month.

[Graham Duke]

Yeah, it was now, wasn't it? Yeah, I think it was.

[Ali Hook]

That was cool, though. I really like that chap.

[Graham Duke]

Hopefully arranging some more interviews later in the year. We'll share some previews or perhaps some actual full freebies of our bonus content, but otherwise I will then get started work on series four and the English and British nearly Monarchs, which we will start doing at some point in 2026.

[Ali Hook]

Thanks, G Man. It's been. It's been a riot.

[Graham Duke]

Has indeed. So come and see us in Ludlow, otherwise, thanks for listening,

[Ali Hook]

Sam.