S4.03 Ælfweard and Edwin

Summary

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Rex Factor Podcast – S4.03: Ælfweard and Edwin

Date: May 8, 2026
Hosts: Graham Duke & Ali Hood

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Episode Overview

This episode of Rex Factor dives into the almost-but-not-quite reigns of two royal brothers, Ælfweard and Edwin, sons of Edward the Elder. The hosts explore how their intertwined stories represent a pivotal, if overlooked, moment in early English history—where kingdom divisions and disputes around succession could have dramatically altered the path toward English unification. The episode weighs up their lives, the drama and intrigue of their respective claims, and how close England came to splitting permanently into two kingdoms.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background: The Brothers and Their Context

• Both Ælfweard and Edwin are sons of Edward the Elder (himself son of Alfred the Great) and his second wife, Ælfflæd.
• The Saxon succession system wasn't strictly primogeniture-based—a valid claim plus sufficient support could make anyone king. Multiple sons meant multiple potential claimants.
• At Edward the Elder’s death (July 924), the kingdom’s unity is at stake:
  • Æthelstan, his eldest (by a different mother), was raised in Mercia and arguably outsider to Wessex politicking.
  • Ælfweard was groomed as heir in Wessex, probably due to political alliances from his parents’ marriage.
  • Edwin was younger brother to Ælfweard, sharing both parents.

2. Succession Crisis: Wessex vs. Mercia

• Upon Edward’s death, the kingdom splits in loyalty:
  • Ælfweard is acknowledged as king in Wessex (the south).
  • Æthelstan is elected king in Mercia (the north).
  • The hosts note the real potential for civil war; the internal division could have revived Viking threats.
• Notable Quote:
  "Potentially, we've got the country... at the brink of civil war here if you've got Wessex and Mercia both electing different kings." — Graham (16:15)

3. The Mysterious Death of Ælfweard

• Ælfweard's reign, if it existed, lasted just 16 days before his death at Oxford—suspiciously close in time and place to the succession crisis.
• Speculation abounds: was it illness, accident, negotiation gone wrong, or murder by rival claimants?
  • Oxford, on the Mercian-Wessex border, is a possible negotiation site.
• Notable Exchange:
  "He happened to brutally cut his head off while shaving." — Graham (19:43, tongue-in-cheek about the suspicious circumstances)

4. Edwin: The Overlooked Heir Apparent

• With Ælfweard gone, Edwin might have expected to inherit Wessex’s support as next full-blood son.
• Instead, Æthelstan is gradually accepted as king of the whole realm, though with considerable reluctance from Wessex's power brokers.
• Evidence from royal witness-lists and charters hints at Edwin's status as a “Cleeton” (immediate heir), but not king.
• Tensions linger between Æthelstan and Edwin for nearly a decade, with Edwin's status as heir, but not king, continually in the background.

5. Court Intrigue & Rumoured Plots

• Plot to Blind Æthelstan: A supposed attempt (likely by Wessex loyalists, possibly with Edwin involved) to blind Æthelstan and thus bar him from kingship.
  • Notable Quote:
    "They love it... means that they're no longer fit for kingship, but you haven't committed the mortal sin of murder." — Graham (23:00)
• Disturbances in 933: A “disturbance” is later linked to Edwin, culminating in his forced exile and mysterious death at sea (“death by boat”).
• Chroniclers like William of Malmesbury and continental writers imply either a wrongful accusation or an aborted plot—either way, Edwin ends up dead in exile, possibly at Æthelstan's order.
  • Notable Quote:
    "He compelled his brother... to go on board a boat without oars or oarsmen. And what is more, rotten with age." — Graham citing William of Malmesbury (31:06)

6. Edwin and the Freemason Legend

• Later myths bizarrely cast Edwin as the legendary founder of English Freemasonry, either by brokering laws for masons or bringing secrets from “the Orient”.
  • The hosts delight in mocking the fancifulness but acknowledge the persistence of such legends.
  • Notable Exchange:
    "Apparently the art of building... had fallen into neglect and Æthelstan wanted to correct this." — Graham (42:45)

7. Counterfactuals and Historical Impact

• The hosts riff on how England’s history might have diverged had Ælfweard lived or Edwin successfully opposed Æthelstan.
  • Could there have been a permanent split into North and South? Might Vikings have regained the ascendancy?
  • Notable Quote:
    "Maybe this could have been the moment that it permanently fractures... That is the start of England. It could have been a different version." — Graham (50:02)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Naming Confusion:
  "Elf. Wyard. Wiard. Elf. Weird Elf. Weird Elf. That's what he will be from now on." — Graham & Ali joking on Ælfweard’s name (02:06)

• The Stabbiness of the Saxons:
  "Stabby. Stabby. Was he stabbed?" — Ali (17:10)
  "He happened to brutally cut his head off while shaving." — Graham (19:43)

• On Saxon Royal Motivations:
  "It's about getting served first at dinner. That's all it is." — Ali (11:39)

• On Saxon Blinding (and Loophole Morality):
  "I didn't kill him. I blinded him. Which killed him." — Ali (23:11)

• On Legendary “Subjectivity”:
  "He's part of the foundation legend for Freemasons... Apparently the art of building in England had fallen into neglect..." — Graham (42:45)

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Key Timestamps

• 01:27 – Episode proper begins; introduction of Ælfweard and Edwin
• 05:34 – Issues of Saxon royal succession: Sons, marriages, and legitimacy
• 10:24 – Mercia’s moment of independent rule under women
• 13:30 – Succession crisis, split between Wessex and Mercia
• 16:56 – Ælfweard’s death; speculation and theories
• 18:56 – Death at Oxford: negotiation or murder?
• 20:28 – Edwin as new contender; why he’s overlooked
• 22:13 – Charter evidence of Edwin’s high status
• 23:22 – Blinding plot and its implications
• 29:14 – Bishop Frithurstan’s resistance and similar opposition
• 30:09 – Edwin’s death at sea; chronicler debate over cause
• 42:45 – Freemason legends involving Edwin
• 46:26 – Scoring the brothers: Longevity, Dynasty, etc.
• 48:27 – Do they have the Rex Factor? (Spoiler: no)
• 49:44 – Counterfactuals: What if England had split?
• 51:43 – Closing remarks and audience engagement

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Scoring & Evaluation (Rex Factors)

Ælfweard

• Battliness: 0 — No evidence of battle or notable combative leadership
• Scandal: 0 — No scandalous deeds recorded (unless you’re a stickler for primogeniture)
• Subjectivity: 0 — Few surviving records or legacies, some inferred popularity in Wessex
• Longevity: 0.5 — Discounted reign of perhaps only 16 days; given minimal score
• Dynasty: 0 — No known heirs
• Rex Factor?: No — Lacked both opportunity and impact

Edwin

• Battliness: 0 — No clear evidence of leading battle or revolt
• Scandal: 2 (combined hosts’ score) — Involvement in plotted blinding of Æthelstan (plausible but unproven); mysterious “disturbance” in 933
• Subjectivity: 1 — Mainly via future Freemason myth, tenuous but persistent
• Longevity: 7.5 — De facto next-in-line for nine years (924–933)
• Dynasty: 0 — No known heirs
• Rex Factor?: No — More interesting story, but ultimately overshadowed and eliminated

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Broader Reflections & Historical What-Ifs

• The crisis around 924–925 could have fractured England into lasting northern (Mercian) and southern (Wessex) states—possibly making English unification a much longer, messier process.
• Persistent tensions between different regions, between half-brothers of different maternal lines, and between new and old power bases illustrate just how contingent and fragile state-building was.
• Both brothers’ “reigns” exemplify moments when history almost took a dramatically different course.

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Final Verdict

Neither Ælfweard nor Edwin receives the Rex Factor.
Their lives highlight the messiness and brutality of Saxon royal politics—full of intrigue, shifting loyalties, and grim “solutions” to disputed successions. While lacking the star quality or impact needed for Rex Factor glory, their stories reveal how close England came to division at a foundational moment.

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For more:
Visit rexfactorpodcast.com and consider supporting on Patreon for bonus content.

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Next Episode:
The first nearly-female monarch: Edith of Wilton.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[D]

Welcome to Rex Factor. This week, Elf, Bayard and Edwin,

[E]

with

[D]

your hosts, Graham Duke and Ali Hood. Hello. Hello. What was that? Sorry? What was that name I said at the start? Elf. Wiard.

[E]

Elf. Wyard.

[D]

Wiard. Elf. Weird Elf. Weird Elf.

[E]

Weird.

[D]

That's what he will be from now on.

[E]

The weird elf.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, is that Bilbo Baggins?

[E]

No, I don't know what you mean.

[D]

Yeah, from the side that looked an awful lot like Martin

[E]

Freeman.

[D]

Thank you. All I had was clunes.

[E]

Anyway, hello, hello and welcome to Rex Factor where we are reviewing all the nearly monarchs of England, from Aethelwold to Albert Victor, the people who could or should have become monarch but for the intervention of fate.

[D]

I just think how nice the name Victor is.

[E]

Hmm. Now, unusually today, as you've heard at the top, we are reviewing two people in one episode, the brothers El, FuIard and Edwin. Now, the reason for that is that their stories very much overlap and their respective narratives kind of make sense of the other, but not a William and Mary sort of situation. So they're not kind of potential joint rulers. They're just both nearly monarchs and they're brothers and it's Kind of part of the same story. That's why we're doing them in one. But we will, when we get to the factors, score them separately.

[D]

Okay. What? Sorry, I'm so hungry I can't keep concentrating. What? We've got brothers.

[E]

We have brothers.

[D]

Okay. But they both have the same level of claim. Yeah, both. Not much detail and I'm all caught up. Yeah. Right. Okay. Yeah.

[E]

As ever, head to our website rexfactorpodcast.com for more information about the podcast and for links to our social media sites. And if you want more of us, then you can go to patreon.com rexfactor and get an ad free version of this podcast, over 450 additional bonus podcasts and. And access to our Discord server.

[D]

What else do they get?

[E]

Well, what more could they ask for?

[D]

I thought there was something else. Oh, Tuesday talks.

[E]

Well, yeah, that's one of the 450 additional.

[D]

God, that's a lot, isn't it?

[E]

Yeah. Bit too much, to be honest. Maybe we should offer a bit less. You don't have to listen to all of it.

[D]

Golly. Well, engage with us on Discord. That's a fun way to chat to us anyway.

[E]

And you can all now watch the podcast. We are on Spotify and YouTube now for the main podcast, so you can see us having our chat.

[D]

But not my trousers.

[E]

But not your trousers. Anyway, let's get back to Elfweard and Edwin.

[D]

Biography.

[E]

So, Elf Wield and Edwin are the sons of Edward the elder and his second wife, elfled, whom he married in 899 on becoming king. So they're probably born early 900, so we can maybe say 900 for her. We are. No, no. Two for Edwin. Edwin. So Ed Wood is the eldest son of Alfred the Great ruling the kingdom of Wessex. But he's also working towards fulfilling his father's vision of uniting the English peoples in one kingdom. Now, if you've listened to our previous episode on Ethelwold, you'll know that Edward the Elder's first challenge as king was to secure the throne against the challenge of his cousin. But despite his own experience with this succession difficulties, he basically leaves his sons facing quite a similar sort of situation.

[D]

Weird.

[E]

It's heightened, really. Thanks to his rather prolific dynastic output. He's a 20 for Dynasty. Okay, not literally 20 children, but.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

So he married three times, leaving five sons to survive him. Now, as we discussed last time, the Saxons don't have a strict order succession or firmly established primogeniture. So essentially, anyone with a Valid claim to the throne. Can claim the throne, provided they have the support of the kingdom.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Now, adult sons who can lead the kingdom in battle are preferred, so that discounts. Edwards. Two youngest sons, Edmund and Edward. But that still leaves three contenders.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Elfride, Edwin and Athelstan. Okay, now, Athelstan.

[D]

Not him. Not Athelstan. Athelstan.

[E]

Athelstan. Athelstan. Okay, hang on, Graham. There's knowledge coming here, and it's one of these weird names, but I feel like I know it well. And I also have a sense of how this is gonna go.

[D]

Oh, yeah, there's a lot of those in these ones. So, Athelstan. Where's that? Do that bit again with Athelstan.

[E]

Well, so Athelstan is the oldest son of Edward the Elder. He's the firstborn.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

And there's a legend that Alfred the Great invested him as a sort of future king in a public ceremony when he was like, five or something like that.

[D]

Okay.

[E]

So he may have felt that he is destined to rule. He's the oldest son of the king. Grandson loved him. There we go. However, when Edward becomes king and remarries, Athelstan is sent away to his aunt's court in Mercia. And it's been suggested, and perhaps it's rumors that arise from the succession dispute, that Athelstan's mother was just a mere concubine, whereas Elfriord and Edwin are born in the purple eye to a reigning monarch and their mother is the daughter of a powerful nobleman. Right, so a more proper legit marriage. Indeed, it may be that confirming Elfriage as his heir could have been part of the marriage agreement that Edward made. And again, in the context of Aethelwold's revolt at that time, Aethelwold within Wessex trying to take the throne, Maybe Edward needed to shore up his support. So he marries a prominent Wessex nobleman and is like, yep, absolutely. I'll send Aethelstan off to Mercia. He's not a proper athlete.

[D]

Okay.

[E]

And my son? Spy. Your daughter will be my.

[D]

This is the real quiz.

[E]

This is the real quiz. Exactly. So we have a diploma from 901 which lists Elfrid, who is at most one year old, above Aethelstan in the list of witnesses.

[D]

Oh, wow.

[E]

Which implies that he's seen as.

[D]

That is else we are. Yeah.

[E]

Seen as being the senior Aetheling of the Chosen. Yeah. But what are Edward's plans for Athelstan? If you've got Elfride as the heir, what's he going to do with Athelstan well, perhaps he could have been the future Lord of the Mercians, so a sort of sub king under Elfreyard. But still, that feels like a bit of a risky strategy if your aim is to create a single unified kingdom. Do you really want to give an older son a sort of kingdom to himself and hope that he'll just play nicely?

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

When they're all grown up. Yeah. Historians are increasingly seeing evidence of Mercy as having been a more independent force in this period than the sort of the Wessex Chronicles would have us believe. So perhaps actually they were in a position, or potentially in a position to challenge the Wessex hegemony. So particularly Edward's sister, Ethelfled Laden the Mercy. And, you know, she won lots of territories. York was going to submit to her just before she died, which would really have placed her and Mercia.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

On a level to rival Wessex. So when Aethelflaed died in 918, Mercia actually elected her daughter Elfwin to succeed her as lady of the Mercians, which is the only mother to daughter succession in English history.

[D]

Rex fact. So out of choice, they were going for a girl.

[E]

Going for a girl, but also more particularly going for one of their own rather than Edward.

[D]

And it was a girl because the position was lady of the Mercians rather than.

[E]

No, it was a girl because Aethelflaed and her husband just had this one child.

[D]

That's brilliant.

[E]

But Edward obviously storms in, removes Elfin from power son, sends her to a nunnery and just makes Mercy a part of his realm, because that's the plan. It's all gonna be one England. Yes. But interesting, though, he obviously doesn't make Athelstan Lord of the Mercians, so if that was his plan, that would have been the moment. So he didn't go in saying, excuse me, it's my son, not my niece, who's going to rule.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[E]

He's just like, excuse me, I'm just going to have the lot.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

So, you know, maybe some have speculated, maybe even Elfwin could have been betrothed to Athelstan. Cousins again, but we saw a Lethalwald, that sort of thing might happen. And again, very much a direct challenge to Wessex dominance.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

So when Edward dies on 17 July, 924, it would appear that we have a disputed succession. So Elfriage is recognised as king in Wessex, but Athelstan is elected in Mercia.

[D]

What I can't understand, though, and this is all, this is basically the. What I don't understand about Rex Factor. They're all related.

[E]

Yes. Yes, that is true. That's key.

[D]

So. So what's the problem? It's in the family. We want our family to be powerful or it's individuals, they. They need to be closer. They need to see each other more.

[E]

Well, they haven't done, obviously, because Athelstan's been off in Mercia, one's been in Wessex and then they're both like, I'm the king.

[D]

I'm just picturing you when I look at you. Because you're talking about Saxons shaving this bit of you and there. And you could have one of those nice, big, really good Saxon taches before you shave that off.

[E]

Just keep.

[D]

Yeah. Another photo for the masses.

[E]

Well, yeah, I think that you're sort of very much coming at from a sort of, sort of Borgy socialisty, kind of like. Well, look, as long as the. The combined version of us is all gambling, then who does it matter who the individual is? Yeah. Whereas the sort of slightly more man centric, I'm the person who wants to be king bit.

[D]

That's it, isn't it? It's about getting served first at dinner. Mmm. That's all it is.

[E]

Yes, if you like.

[D]

Because, I mean, what other. They're all rich, aren't they?

[E]

Yes. I think there's a certain lustre that comes with being king that's not quite the same as just being duke or

[D]

lady of the Mercians. I'd be alright with that.

[E]

Yes. But I guess you're not coming at from the perspective of someone who's grown up thinking that you are the heir to the kingdom. Then somebody else says, no, I'm gonna do it, actually.

[D]

Yeah. And someone else is like your cousin and then the other cousin. Oh, God, just. Yeah. I'll just have to have the family photo albums and be done.

[E]

Thanks. But, sir, won't Alistair be a rival for the throne? He's fine.

[D]

Yeah. He's got his air fix. Yeah. That's all he needs.

[E]

You won't even realize that. Three years and it's all done. Well, Athelstan and Elfriage, we can assume, are a bit more focused on trying to be king. More particularly, Mercia and Wessex behind them are very focused on who they want to be king. They don't think that doesn't matter, does it? Because one of them is very much a Wessex person and one of them is very much a Mercia person. Right. And if we have this actual division that the Wessex Chronicles would like us to imagine, isn't there? But actually Maybe there is this ongoing tension who's going to come out of this and what is going to come out of this? If we have a split between the two major kingdoms, but they're both trying

[D]

to unite those two kingdoms.

[E]

Well, we don't know is Mercia trying to unite it or is it trying to be separate, or does it feel that it. It wants it to be united under one of their own rather than one of my own?

[D]

See why the Vikings thought this was a good time.

[E]

Now, Athelstan has the advantage that he is actually with Edward when Edward dies, because Edward was subduing a rebellion in Chester, so he's not that far away from sort of Mercy and heartlands. So Athelstan, therefore is kind of with this predominantly Mercian army that he's just been kind of helping to command. So he's very quickly able to have himself elected and he's got. Falls behind him.

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[E]

So it will take a certain amount of time before the news actually gets to Elfbjard in Wessex that Edward has died at all.

[D]

And by that time he's got an army.

[E]

He's Exactly. Still, Elfweard had likely long been recognized and favoured as Edward's heir. In Wessex, particularly Winchester, which is the literary and cultural capital of Wessex, Edward has established a royal mausoleum where he's buried his parents and indeed where he will now himself be buried. So this is now kind of very much the spiritual home of this new English kingdom. And this is where Elfreyard has been based.

[D]

Oh, okay. Because he's out on the battles, he's

[E]

out doing athelstands off in Mercier, Edward has been off campaigning, but predominantly they are centered around Winchester.

[D]

So he's at the power base. So even though the other fellow's got an army,

[E]

and indeed the Bishop of Winchester, a chap called Frithurston, seems to be in a very good terms with Elfled. So Elfjarrd's mother. So she commissioned some gold vestments for him that ended up in the tomb of St Cuthbert.

[D]

Lady in the Mercyons still survived?

[E]

No, no. Ethel fled his lady of the Mercy, since it's just Elfled. Okay. Thus, the Winchester Liber Vitae states that Elfwiard was crowned with kingly badges, While the early 12th century manuscript, the Textus Refenses stated that Elfweard, Edward's son, succeeded to the kingdom. So we don't have Elfride in our kings list. We didn't do him in the first series.

[D]

Oh, yeah, right, I see. Yeah.

[E]

Feels like. No. As far as Wessex were Concerned Elfried is the heir to Edward, not Athelstan.

[D]

Okay.

[E]

Athelstan's a Mercian. Elfride is our man.

[D]

Okay. And that's this Hobbit fella here.

[E]

That's the Hobbit fella in the picture. Yes. Again from last kingdom.

[D]

What about Edwin, then?

[E]

Edwin's not in the last kingdom, so he's a younger brother, so we will come to him. But at the moment, imagine where you've got two full brothers, because obviously Elfrid and Athelstan are half brothers, both sons of the same father but different mothers. I think when it's full brothers, I think it's a bit easier to be like, well, obviously the oldest one would come first. But with Athelstan, it's a bit of a separate thing going on. But so potentially we've got the country could be at the brink of civil war here if you've got Wessex and Mercia both electing different kings. Gosh.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

How are you going to resolve that? One could have resulted in a very different history of England, or indeed a fatal weakening of the country, just to the point at which they're really on top of the Vikings. If Wessex and Mercia find themselves at war, that's the way back in for the Vikings.

[D]

Definitely. Yeah.

[E]

However, it is not to be as the Anglo Saxon chronicle relates to. King Edward died at Farnden on D in Mercia. And very soon, 16 days after his son Elfwiard died at Oxford, they were buried at Winchester. Athelstan was accepted as king by the Mercians and was consecrated at Kingston.

[D]

Coincidence?

[E]

Well, I mean, yes. 16 days afterwards.

[D]

Oh, no, I was talking about being concentrated at Kingston.

[E]

Oh, no, I think it's probably for that reason.

[D]

Is that why it's called Kingston Stone, isn't it?

[E]

The stone that they were ground on.

[D]

Okay. And yes. So, you know, scandal. Stabby. Stabby. Was he stabbed?

[E]

Well, I mean, we don't have any details. Technically, we have no details. He just happens to die 16 days after Edward in the midst of a disputed succession. Yeah, these things happen.

[D]

These things do happen.

[E]

Now, the language is still pretty interesting here. This is from a Mercian version of the Anglo Saxon Chronicle, because there are a few different versions written in different monastic houses in different places, and they sometimes have slightly different takes on things, quite subtle differences. So the Mercian version doesn't actually describe Elfride as king, says that he's the son of his father, but he doesn't say that he was the successor of his father.

[D]

Just right.

[E]

Son of his father for Athelstan. It doesn't actually state that he is king, but rather that he has been accepted by the Mercians. Again, a difference there that they're stressing. Does state that he's crowned at Kingston, of course, but that is rather simplifying the facts because he isn't actually crowned at Kingston until925 the following year.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

So there's a whole year there in which he is not being crowned king.

[D]

And what's he doing? Is he currying favour in amongst his.

[E]

Yeah, well, that's the question. What does happen between, well, Edward's death and then, very quickly, Elfride's death and Athelstan's coronation? Why do we have this year long delay? What is going on? More particularly, of course, what happened to Elfride? So he may just have died. Life was often brutal and sure, even for monarchs, but equally only probably in his mid-20s. He's very young. It's also notable that he died at Oxford.

[D]

Why?

[E]

Well, for one thing, it's not Winchester, which is where he has been based. So he's not just this poorly sick youth fading away in Winchester, he's actually made a 50 mile journey to get to Oxford. So he's well enough to have done that. And Oxford very much on the Wessex Mercia border, so we don't have any record of a battle or indeed of an assassination. But nevertheless, if we do have these two rival kings and the half brothers, and perhaps you might imagine that some kind of negotiation would need to take place. Oxford would be a very logical place for Athelstan to come down. Elfgard had gone north somewhere that they might have met to discuss what's going to happen.

[D]

Okay. Yeah. And that's when the deed was done.

[E]

And that's when, sadly, he happened to brutally cut his head off while shaving.

[D]

Oh, right. Yeah. Well, I know what I think.

[E]

I mean, maybe because Elfmiard has been in Winchester, maybe the just dream polluted northern air of Oxford was just so overpowering that he just immediately expired.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Whereas Athelstan, being all rough and northern,

[D]

could take it, couldn't.

[E]

He could take it. Or Atelstan took a very direct approach to the negotiations and just murdered his brother at the first opportunity. Yeah. Ultimately, you never know. But Elfriage's reign, which it seems like, as far as Wessex is concerned, it was a reign, it's over.

[D]

That was it.

[E]

That was it for Elfriage, but it's not. It's not it for today. So who will succeed Elfride? Because obviously we've got Athelstan. He's got his army, he's got Mercia, But Elfride has the younger brother, Edwin. Edwin is also probably in his early 20s, so, you know, he's certainly. He's old enough to rule, he's old enough to be the head of an army. And presumably, if Wessex had favored Elfriage, they would now turn to Edwin rather than Athelstan as the next best choice. He's got the same advantages of birth that we described for Elf Wiard and born in the Purple Elf led being proper legitimate marriage, etc. He's also, again, a very familiar figure in Winchester and in Wessex, whereas Athelstan is an outsider. And the fact that Elf Wiard drops dead on his first royal outing just two weeks after becoming king probably won't have helped endear Aethelstan anymore to the power brokers in Wessex.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

So you imagine they might have looked to Edwin as a better choice, but they didn't. Well, unlike with Elfrier, there's no suggestion that he was ever acknowledged as king in Wessex. Now it might be that if Athelstan has come down to Oxford with a big army, that he just carried on to Wessex and fait accompli forces them to acknowledge him as king. So perhaps Athelstan just makes sure that there is no opportunity for Edwin.

[D]

Is that what he does?

[E]

We don't know exactly, but he must have received some form of submission and acceptance as king, but equally not enough that he was able to be crowned. So perhaps this is uneasy standoff where Athelstan has established himself as king. Perhaps he may even is the one that brings the news of Elfride's death and says, and by the way, I'm king now, and they just have to go along with it. But the sense that perhaps no one's really fully accepted the situation, so he's

[D]

just giving it some breathing space, the

[E]

whole situation giving it some breathing space. A diploma in 925 described Athelstan as king of a country almost in the whirlpools of cataclysms. And witness list was made up of bishops entirely from Mercia, so no Frithursden of Winchester, for example. So there's a sense that Athelstan is king and no one's directly challenging him, but at the same time, he's not really daring to try and do much with Winchester. And indeed there does seem to been some resistance to him. The 12th century chronicler William of Malmesbury recounted a plot to have Aethelstan blinded in Winchester. So blinding. A favour tactic.

[D]

Yeah, they love It.

[E]

Because it means that they're no longer fit for kingship. But you haven't committed the mortal sin

[D]

of murder because you need to lead an army if you're a king. Okay.

[E]

Albeit it does feel like quite a lot of the time when people are blinded, they are also murdered because they're obviously not very delicate in how they do it.

[D]

I didn't kill him. I blinded him. Which killed him.

[E]

Yes, yes. I mean, you did. Yes. You did technically bind him first in that. That was where the knife started, but.

[D]

Yeah, exactly.

[E]

And the plot is attributed to a man called Alfred.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[E]

No relation. Who was afterwards sent to Rome, where he defended himself with an oath to the Pope, only to be struck down and then die two days later.

[D]

Struck down by a human, with a

[E]

hammer or by God.

[D]

Oh, right.

[E]

Now, some historians have approached this story of the blinding with an element of skepticism, because William of Malmsbury's account contains the detail that Alfred had coveted lands in Malmesbury and that afterwards, Athelstan had granted the lands to the Church, which just so happens to be Williams Church, and which just so happened to be facing a land dispute at the time. And William was able to point to this example of why they definitely have been given the lands by Athelstan. So some think maybe he just invented this as a means of saying that Malmesbury owns the land, but also perhaps he's just building on something that's already there. Because it's absolutely plausible that within Wessex, they might have tried to be rid of Athelstan, but they perhaps weren't able to challenge him on the battlefield. So, well, assassination or maiming was maybe the best tactic. So it's entirely plausible that could have happened.

[D]

Right.

[E]

So if it had happened, the question is, was it an isolated incident specific to this chap Alfred, or was it part of a wider conspiracy that might have involved Edwin? Because if you maim and remove from the throne Athelstan, Edwin is the one who stands to gain. He would have been the one who became king. So is he involved in this? Or is it just something that's going on in Wessex, or does he have plausible deniability? Don't tell me what you're doing, but carry on.

[D]

He's a fan of the grey area. There isn't. He can really rummage around in that position.

[E]

Well, either way, it was ultimately, of course, unsuccessful. So in September 925, over a year since Edward the Elder's death, Athelstan is finally crowned king at Kingston upon Thames, which, again, is an ancient Border location between Mercia and Wessex. So, again, another sort of acknowledgement that there are these divisions within the kingdom. And it seems that Edward's third wife, Edgyver of Kent, so the mother to the two younger sons may have helped broker some kind of deal between Athelstan and the hierarchy in Wessex. Because she's obviously still a power, having been the previous queen. She's got two sons, but she's not entirely in the mix of the battle because her sons are too young at this point.

[D]

Right.

[E]

So she may have been someone who was able to.

[D]

Was this the woman that in the last episode we said he married to try and heal that rift?

[E]

Yes, indeed.

[D]

Okay.

[E]

But what is the lay of the lamp between Athelstan and Edwin's? Because given that Athelstan might have murdered Edwin's brother.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

And given that Edwin might have tried to have Athelstan blinded, might be a certain degree of tension between them.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Be understandable if there was. Now, it's. It's often stated, indeed, we have done to ourselves, Athelstan made this pact with Edgy for the third wife of Edward the Elder, that he would never marry and never produce his own heirs, so that her sons would succeed.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

But that is ultimate. That is ultimately how things play out. But that ignores the fact that we have Edwin there, who's an adult brother and presumably would surely have been seen as the next in line.

[D]

Yeah. Why would you skip him and go to the two babies?

[E]

Exactly. And indeed, there is actually evidence that Edwin is acknowledged as the next most senior figure at court. So a poem in 927 celebrating Athelstan's success in conquering Northumbria and thus uniting all of England under his rule, that references Athelstan's court and it lists a Regina and a Cleto, which is a sort of a Latinized version of an Etheling, a throne worthy prince. Now, the Regina can only be Edgyver, Edward's widow, because she's the only one that's still alive. But who is the Cleto? Now, some assume it must be Edgyver's eldest son, Edmund. But others have wondered whether maybe it's Edwin, because he's the most senior prince at the court. And indeed, the only known attestation of a royal document by Edwin comes from a lease record in the same year, 927in Winchester, where he's got his most support, where Athelstan grants one of his thanes some land in return for an annual payment. Now, the witness list is unusually long. It's got over 80 names on it. And the first witness after Athelstan is Edwin Clayton. Etheling. Exactly. So that's two references, two separate references in the same year.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Of this Cleto. And it's the earliest recorded use of the word Cleto in England as well.

[D]

Don't we have a character that we call Cleto in this?

[E]

There is a William Cleto. Yeah, that will be coming later.

[D]

That's where that's come from. He's called that because of.

[E]

Well, it's. Yes, it's another. It's another variation on the Etheling, basically.

[D]

It's not his surname, then?

[E]

No, it's more of a status. Interesting, though. A later charter of King Edred in the 950s distinguishes between his eldest nephew, Edwig, who's described as Cleeton, and the younger nephew Edgar, who's described as Aetheling. Well, which perhaps implies that Cleeton might denote. Yeah. Or perhaps the immediate heir, whereas Etheling is throne worthy.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's what it was.

[E]

But Cleaton is perhaps being used as actual successor.

[D]

Cool. Yeah, that makes sense to me.

[E]

That would make sense of Edwin's likely status at court at this time. Interesting. The land lease relates the new minster community in Winchester, because obviously that is where Dunn would have been most popular. So the fact that it's a Winchester one, where we have him on the list and high up and described as Cleeton is.

[D]

That's him.

[E]

Interesting as well. It could also imply not such a bad relationship between Athelstan and Edwin. They've patched things up. Or maybe when Athelstan is in Wessex, he's forced to acknowledge Edwin's status in the way that he wouldn't otherwise choose to do.

[D]

I sense a sticky end for this man.

[E]

Well, we have some further evidence of ongoing resistance to Athelstan and Winchester from Bishop Frithiston doesn't attend Athelstan's coronation nor witness any of his surviving charters until 928. So he's still not got everyone on board in Winchester. And while Frithurstone is then a regular witness in these charters, his name's always lower than it really should be as Bishop of Winchester. Now, he resigned in 931 as bishop for unknown reasons, then died in 933. And perhaps not coincidentally, 933 is also the year that matters come to a head with Edwin. Right, so the Anglo Saxon Chronicle gives a very phlegmatic account of a clearly turbulent set of events this year. Died Bishop Frithurston and Edwin the Etheling was drowned in the sea. Oh, coincidence or foul play?

[D]

Well, I'm very tempted to say foul play was drowned is an interesting phrasing, though you can't really put anything by that with.

[E]

Well, a later account, Simeon of Durham, medieval chronicler, says simply, king Athelstan ordered his brother Edwin to be drowned at sea.

[D]

Well, that's, that's what we're.

[E]

That's what. Could we just clarify that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[D]

So what, a hole in the boat job?

[E]

Well, yes. Death by boat.

[D]

Death by boat.

[E]

Now, William of Malmsbury is something of a cheerleader for Athelstan. He writes a biography of him and is all about him, but it's surprisingly critical of Athelstan. In this episode. He recalls that Edwin, who even strangers could not choose but to pity, was falsely accused of plotting against Aethelstan and despite swearing his innocence, was condemned into a harsh and fatal exile. Even his cruelty took a form without parallel, for he compelled his brother, attended by a single squire, to go on board a boat without oars or oarsmen. And what is more, rotten with age.

[D]

Yeah, that is it, isn't it? It's death by blinding, you know. No, I just put him in a boat, but knowing that it was going to kill him.

[E]

I mean, to be fair, it said without oars or oarsman. I suppose if you don't have the oars, you don't really need the Osman sitting there without any job to do.

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[E]

Anyway, so the ship is sailed by a terrible storm and eventually Edwin can bear it no more and throws himself overboard.

[D]

How do we know?

[E]

Oh, well, this is what in William's account tells us about. But the servant, the squire, apparently unafflicted by the storm, just drags him back on board dead and takes him back to shore.

[D]

Oh, that's how we know. Okay, right, got you.

[E]

Overwhelmed with more, Zacklestan undertakes a seven year penance and it executes the man who'd falsely informed on Edwin.

[D]

So, so the, the squire survived.

[E]

Yeah, which is why it's like, okay, so Edwin is like, oh, it's so awful, and throws himself off with the squire's cat. It's not that bad, mate. Come on.

[D]

The squire did it. The sky definitely did it.

[E]

How did he, how did he fall and you didn't? The storm. Oh, the storm was really bad. I just. He didn't. It was too much for him. It's too much for him.

[D]

Yeah, that's definitely it. Didn't need the rotten boat then.

[E]

To be honest, guys, it Made it a lot harder for me.

[D]

Yeah. You know, I nearly died as well.

[E]

Yes, I think you mix two plans here. Just regular boat guy to kill him. Yeah, if it's a dodgy boat, you don't need the guy to kill him.

[D]

Yeah, that's exactly right. Well, I suppose it's an insurance policy.

[E]

Okay. Live and learn. Live and learn. And now it's interesting. These accounts all seem to assume that Edwin is the victim, though the most contemporary chronicle other than the Anglo Saxon chronicle suggests otherwise. So we have a Flemish monk, Folquin, who recorded this in the year of the Incarnata Word 933, when the same King Edwin, driven by some disturbance in his kingdom, embarked on a ship wishing to cross to this side of the sea. The storm arose and the ship was wrecked and he was overwhelmed in the midst of the waves. And when his body was washed ashore, Count Adeloff, since he was his kinsman, received it with honour and bore it to the monastery of Saint Bertin for burial. So Falkwin's a monk of Saint Bertin in Saint Omer in modern France, and he wrote a history of the Abbey in 961. So he's less than 30 years after Edwin's death. So it's fairly contemporary. And he recalls that Edwin is buried at his abbey by Count Adelof of Boulogne. Now, they're kinsmen because Adeloff's father had married a daughter of Alfred the Great. So Edwin and Adelof are both descended from Alfred. So they are. They are related. So he would have felt a sense of ownership and propriety to him. Folkwin claims Athelstan gave the monastery several gifts as alms for Edwin and graciously received monks from the abbey at his court, giving them the use of the monastery at Bath.

[D]

Athelstan did.

[E]

Now, it's a flawed account because the visit took place in 944, after which Athelstan was actually dead. So it would have been his brother Edmund rather than Athelstan. But still, it doesn't entirely rule out this being plausible. We also have the issue that he describes Edwin as rex, I. E. King, which he wasn't. Athelstan was king. So is he simply made a mistake there? Perhaps he's been confused by what etheling means.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Or does it relate to the mysterious disturbance in the kingdom that he also describes? Perhaps Edwin had attempted a rebellion against Athelstan, maybe even claimed a throne, maybe been acknowledged king by some of his supporters, only to be found out and sentenced to death by Boat.

[D]

Yeah. I believe everything you're saying here. I think this is exactly what's happened. It was a disturbance. He. Oh, no, hang on. Maybe the disturbance could just be like. Yeah, maybe, but he was definitely killed.

[E]

Yeah. We'll never know for sure. But by the end of 933, the potential threat of Edwin was gone. Athelstan then appoints one of his own bishops as the new bishop of Winchester because Philiston died as well in that same year. And probably not coincidentally, the following year, 934 is the first time Athelstan convenes court at Winchester, having been king for, you know, 10 years. But it's only once Edwin has died and that Frithurstan has died that he actually see.

[D]

I thought of Athelstan as this completely all powerful right from the off, but he hasn't had. He hasn't been to.

[E]

It's not that he hasn't been, but to actually hold court in the sense of like. Right. I think it was Easter, for example. So, you know, when it's like a big thing where it's like, this is where I'm based and I'm gonna be

[D]

so sort of state occasion.

[E]

Yeah. So he would have been in Winchester and around and stuff. This is maybe the first time he's really seriously based there for a significant period of time. And that's also the year that he does a major campaign into Scotland, which again, you think, would he have felt secure enough to have left the kingdom?

[D]

Yeah, definitely.

[E]

Also notable that when Athelstan dies, he and his cousins who were killed at Brunanburgh are all buried at Malmesbury Abbey. Whereas Alfred, Edward, Elfrid, Edwin, all in Winchester. Why is that? I guess maybe he never really felt that Winchester was his place.

[D]

That's where his rest of his family web. Interesting. Interesting.

[E]

So those were the lives and non reigns of Elfrid and Edwin. We'll now move on to review them after a quick break.

[C]

This episode is brought to you by. Prime Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories. And the book to screen favorites you've already read twice off campus. L every year after the Love Hypothesis. Sterling point and more Slow burns. Second chances chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting watch only on Prime

[D]

Battleliness.

[E]

So as I said, we'll do. We'll do them in turn, factor by factor. Elfield, then Edwin and then do each different factor. So battling Ness for Elfriage. We've pretty much nothing to go on here. At all. Okay. Total lack of information about him. The only possible hint is his mysterious death at Oxford 16 days after his accession. Was there a battle, a skirmish, a set to with Athelstan?

[D]

No, there's nothing there, is there?

[E]

Yeah, I suppose. Even if he was assassinated, you know, he might have been there in force. He might have been ready to do battle. And then Athelstan just went stabby. Stabby.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Let's skip the end. Yeah. But we've got no evidence of it. We just know that he dies at Oxford.

[D]

Zero.

[E]

I think it does, alas, have to be a zero for Elfriage, for battling us. Now, Edwin, a little bit more to go on because we've got two potential attempts to remove Athelstan. The blinding plot in 924 and the disturbance in 933. Difficulty in both cases is lack of evidence, A, to be sure that they definitely really happened and that's what's going on, and B, that Edwin himself actually does anything towards it. The blinding pot is associated with a man called Alfred, soon after Aethelstan has taken the throne. So we discussed why there would have been opposition to Athelstan. We discussed why Edwin, as the Senior Wessex candidate, was the one who stood to gain. But we don't have any direct evidence of his involvement.

[D]

It's pitiful, isn't it?

[E]

But you'd have thought he would be. You'd have thought he'd have known. But it's not battle. Yeah. For 933, the suggestion is that he's sentenced to death by boat because of his involvement in some kind of machination, the disturbance in the kingdom. And there's the possibility that Falkwin describing him as Rex is because Edwin has claimed the throne in this disturbance, but we don't have any details of it. The Anglo Saxon Chronicle doesn't mention the disturbance. Simply has him drown at sea. Later, medieval chroniclers say that he's falsely accused of plotting against Athelstan. It's only Falkwin, who is almost contemporary, but nevertheless also has some factual errors that, rather than being interesting, might just be errors.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's not a reliable witness.

[E]

Yeah. And other chroniclers, even Williams Malmsbury, all really seem to suggest Edwin's falsely accused of fomenting a rebellion without actually being a rebellion.

[D]

I just don't think I got there's anything there.

[E]

I mean. I mean, it's. Maybe it's. Maybe it's maybe a bit more scandal than battleliness, I think, for Edwin. I feel like. I feel like in both cases. There probably is something going on there, and I find it hard to imagine that he's not in some way involved in either of them. But in neither case is it him raising an army and, yeah, Trying to win by battle. So I think for battliness, I agree he's also zero. So not a great start for the brothers. A combined zero for battliness.

[D]

Scandal.

[E]

Well, alas, Ralph, we are. I can't find anything that could trigger the scandal. Bell. Unless, and I think you made it pretty clear that this isn't necessarily a primary motivation of your attitude towards all of this, unless you're such a stickler for primogeniture that the idea that he had the affront to claim the throne ahead of the older brother could so outrage you that he gets something for scandal, I think. Otherwise, we've got nothing. Nothing on Elfride.

[D]

No, I can't help. Zero.

[E]

Now, for Edwin, without wanting to repeat ourselves, it's the same things we mentioned with battleliness. There's the blinding plot and there's the 933 disturbance. Now, I do feel like these do feel more like scandals than battles.

[D]

The blinding plot, certainly.

[E]

And it feels very plausible, very plausible that it happened. We've got an account of it happening. It's absolutely the right sort of thing that the Saxons love to do. It's the right time. It's before Aethelstan is crowned, after he's sort of enforced himself, where they're not really in a position to challenge him militarily. Edwin is the one who stands to gain. He's the one who would be king if this happened. It's very hard to believe he's not involved.

[D]

Oh, yeah. I'm just counting the blinding, the 933 disturbance.

[E]

We just don't know. But again, you know, if Athelstan does think that he's involved in the blinding plot, he waits almost 10 years to send him off. He could have sent him off in a rickety boat at any time. So that does imply something else has happened. Be odd to wait that long before deciding. So you feel there must be something that's prompted that.

[D]

Well, I'm gonna give him a two. Yeah.

[E]

I was gonna say, in both cases, very little detail, but equally hard to believe that there's nothing. So, yeah, I think a 2 as well. I think without any Edwin centered details, it's hard to give a lot of points.

[D]

But there's something there.

[E]

There's something there. And if you're making the historical fiction of this, which Bernard Cornwall didn't Actually, I think he just did Elfreyard, but, yeah, that. You definitely play it up. But still, he's on the board, he's ahead. That's a four for scandal for Edwin.

[D]

Subjectivity zero here.

[E]

Yeah, we've just got nothing for Elf. We are. That survives. I mean, I guess the fact that Winchester seems to have deemed it worthy to preserve his memory decades later implies that he's obviously very well thought of. But it's a pretty thin legacy, Rubs. He's got to be a zero for Elfride. Now, surprisingly for Edwin, I have found a story that we could consider for subjectivity. He's part of the foundation legend for Freemasons.

[D]

Well, I never.

[E]

So, apparently the art of building in England had fallen into neglect and Athelstan wanted to correct this. So one story states that Edwin's good offices saw Athelstan grant the stonemasons a charter, allowing them to hold an annual assembly. And Edwin convened the first one at York, which gave the society his rules of organisation and ordinances governing their craft.

[D]

Right.

[E]

A different version of the legend claims that Edwin returned from the Orient with the secrets of Freemasonry and created the first English lodge at Ely. Athelstan summoned him to Weymouth, but Edwin refused to reveal anything at the lodge, offering instead to make an oath of allegiance to Athelstan, provided he not have to break his vow of secrecy. But Athelstan's so outraged at the refusal that he has Edwin cast out into the sea at Weymouth.

[D]

That's why that was the disturbance then.

[E]

Now, you may be shocked here that historically these accounts are not entirely reliable and indeed Seraphot has described them as being of no intrinsic merit.

[D]

Oh.

[E]

Historically, the Edwin in the legend is also stated to be Athelstan's son, and he didn't have any sons.

[D]

Right.

[E]

Which is problematic. And also, the story of the ordinances that he laid down comes from the 16th century. And the ordinances that Edwin says they all have to live by are surprisingly similar to the conditions expected of contemporary building industry in the 16th century. Which could be that Edwin has set the standard for the next 500 years. Or that perhaps the legend was invented just to justify the current system and they pretended it was from years and years earlier.

[D]

Go to the Tower and speak to Silvertop and say, have you got anyone in your books who doesn't really do anything? Can we. Can we have him for our building game?

[E]

Well, it's interesting, though, because William of Malmesbury states that it's Weymouth where Edwin dies and that Time. So it does weirdly tie in with it. And I suppose if there was the blinding plot, maybe Edwin does go elsewhere for a while.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. The Orient. The Orient, which in this case is presumably Poland.

[E]

So, I mean, you know, we've got a thing to talk about, apparently.

[D]

One. Mmm.

[E]

It's. Yeah, it's. It's dubious. It's a thing, but it's a thing.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

I think I won as well. You're on the board. That's a two for subjectivity. Longevity. Well, we do have a slight debate for longevity with Elfriere, because unlike most subjects of this series, he was actually acknowledged as being king. And the nearliness of his case is the fact that it was probably only half of the kingdom, albeit the dominant half, and over so quickly that they would bear have had time to update the website. So probably never bothered. Certainly the commemorative plates wouldn't have been put into production at this point. But there is a question about how long his reign was. So the Anglo Saxon Chronicle stated he died 16 days after his father, but the admittedly later Textus Rufensis stated that he succeeded to the kingdom and ruled it for four weeks.

[D]

That's a wild stab in the dark, isn't it? That's just saying month or something.

[E]

So that would have had him die on the 14th of August rather than the second, but, you know, that would have technically doubled the length of his reign.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

The point is actually somewhat moot though, because when I'm calculating the months for longevity, it's effectively still in the bracket of one month or less and thus doesn't impact on his score whatsoever.

[D]

Good.

[E]

So A reign of 0.08 years gives him a score of 0.5 for longevity.

[D]

He's on the board.

[E]

Exactly, he is on the board. 29th. Best for the series, 0.5. As for Edwin, meanwhile, I guess we've got the debate over whether he's technically ever recognized as Aethelstan's heir, or whether we see the 933 disturbance to the point at which he actually attempts to claim the throne. Or do we see. Well, basically, once Athelstan becomes king, once Elfried is dead, basically Edwin is the next in line and that's what I've gone for. So I'm viewing it as Edwin is the next eldest deathling, and therefore from Athelstan's accession and Elfriage death, Edwin is effectively the heir until he dies.

[D]

He's the next challenger for that amount of time.

[E]

So that means that Edwin's nearly reign is from 924 to 933, which is a reign of nine years.

[D]

That's good.

[E]

And a score of 7.5, which is the 18th best in the series.

[D]

He's done remarkably well this chapter.

[E]

He's picked up a bit of momentum, hasn't he?

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Dynasty, not the program. As far as we can tell here, neither Elfreald nor Edwin marry or produce any legitimate surviving children. So they both get a score of zero for Dynasty.

[D]

Well, that's easy.

[E]

Which is technically joint 14th for this series because only 13 of the nearly monarchs actually do have legitimate surviving children.

[D]

Joint 14th of 30 people.

[E]

Yeah. Anyway, overall that gives poor Elfreyard a score of 0.5.

[D]

He deserves it for that smirk.

[E]

Oh, no, that was Ethelwald that had the smirk. Look at, look at Paul, look at Paul. Elfride.

[D]

Oh, yeah, the hobbit. Sorry. Yeah.

[E]

0.5 for elfriage, but a whopping 13 and a half for Edwin.

[D]

A lot better, which is odd. Couldn't tell you anything about him.

[E]

Freemasons. Oh, yeah. Blinding death by boat.

[D]

Yeah. Alright.

[E]

It's easy when you've got the notes, but it's not all about the score. Do either of them have that certain something, the lasting legacy, the great achievement, the star quality that we call Rex factor?

[D]

Definitely not, I'm afraid, no.

[E]

It's really difficult to make a strong case for either of them on an individual basis whatsoever.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

The only interesting thing really, I think, is just to briefly perhaps consider the counterfactual element. How could things have been a bit different?

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

If it continued perhaps particularly with Elf. We are. Because at the point at which Elf we are, well, is king in Wessex, we have a split kingdom between Wessex and Mercia.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

So if Elfwear doesn't die, but also Athelstan does continue, do we see a Wessex Mercian split? Does that become permanent? Might they have had to negotiate at Oxford and rather than Elfride getting stabby. Stabby.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

They just agree to split the kingdom. And we have a southern England and a northern England and Athelstan rules the north and Elfride rules the south.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Because obviously we have the official version of what happens. So we imagine it's. It's a fixed, steady path towards England and that was always inevitably going to be the case.

[D]

Yeah. But absolutely not.

[E]

But absolutely not. Maybe not. Maybe this could have been the moment that it permanently fractures. Because it is. I mean, Athelstan's reign is the point at which effectively England is there and becomes a country that is the start of England. It could have been a different version it could have been Wessex and Mercia.

[D]

I mean, I think ultimately it would coalesce around a coastline, but presumably with more of a Viking flavour. Interesting.

[E]

So it is an interesting counterfactual. If Elf Wield had lived and if they had been forced to come to terms, we could have had a very different future. And indeed, there are other points where we see this split. So had Aethelwold and Edward in 899, when you could have seen something different happening. In 955, there's a split between Edwig and Edgar for a time. Edgar rules effectively the north and Edwig the South. 10:16 Canute and Edmund Ironside split the kingdom until Edmund died a few weeks later. So you do actually see a few points at which these borders are broken up and then put together again. So, as Martin Ryan said, had any such divisions at any point persisted, they could easily have set down strong roots.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

So, weirdly, the failure, particularly of Elfride to establish a lasting reign is a notable moment that you could easily miss when you assess the. The totality of Athelstan's reign. Because actually, there was this point where maybe it could have gone off in a different direction.

[D]

Golly.

[E]

But again, you have this perhaps grand vision of maybe what might have been. And then Athelstan just goes, nah, stabby, stabby. Yeah, I'll just be king. The whole lot of things.

[D]

Yeah. It's easier, isn't it?

[E]

Much easier.

[D]

He was getting lost on this narrative as well and saying, oh, I could do it now. I'll just continue.

[E]

So, Elfweard 9 Edwin 9. So no for me for both of them. And it's a no for me for both of them as well.

[D]

Correspondence corner.

[E]

So that was Elfweard and Edwin. Let us know what you thought about the brothers and whether either of them you think deserved to get onto the Rex factor.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[E]

No, they shouldn't. We shouldn't have done them at all. It was rubbish. Get them off. Head to our website rexfactorpodcast.com for more information about the podcast and links to all of our social media. And you can go to patreon.com rexfactor and sign up to be a Privy Counsellor, where you get an ad free version of this podcast as well as over 450 bonus podcasts, access to our Discord Server and bonus Privy Chamber podcast, where for each of these main episodes, we go into a little bit extra on elements of the episode and Tuesday talks. And we have the Tuesday talks on Discord Chat.

[D]

He said what? Yeah.

[E]

Anyway, yeah. And we have some new privy councillors to welcome to the fold.

[D]

Arise, furry quandary. Sophie backus. Waterman. Henry V's robot minion. Nice. John Shriner, Eric Birchfield, Mr. Rock Stark, Maya Leno, Annie Pierce, Timothy Bon, Maria Semra, Tony McCrae, JPE Sophia DL, Jill Larson, Alice Thres, Jackie Ora Hughes, Erica Jones, Tyler Newman, and Moira Ismay. Cheers. I mean, actually, you know, sounded sarcastic.

[E]

So that is all from us today. Next time we'll have our first nearly female monarch. No, not nearly female monarch. Our first female nearly monarch of the

[D]

series, Edith and Wilton.

[E]

See you next time.

[D]

Bye. Bye.

[B]

Some follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money. Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swing, there's a money side to every story. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe [e-mail]

[F]

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[B]

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