S4.08 Edgar the Ætheling

Summary

Rex Factor S4.08 Edgar the Ætheling

Release Date: July 17, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Rex Factor, hosted by Graham Duke and Ali Hood, concludes the Saxon miniseries of "Nearly Monarchs" with a deep dive into the life and legacy of Edgar the Ætheling—the oft-overlooked last Anglo-Saxon prince with arguably the strongest claim to the English throne in 1066. The hosts explore Edgar's tumultuous career as a would-be king, perpetual exile, and the “Forrest Gump of English royal history,” tracing his role in the aftermath of the Norman Conquest, his series of failed rebellions, surprising international exploits, and eventual place as a survivor in the shifting political landscape of Norman England.

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Main Discussion & Key Points

1. Edgar’s Background and Claim to the Throne

• [02:16] Edgar was born around 1052 in Hungary, son of Edward the Exile (grandson of Edmund Ironside). His family was forced into exile after the Danish conquest of England in 1016.
• [03:37] C: “He must have been a complete foreigner though in culture, language, looks, the way he dressed...”
• Brought to England as a boy to be raised in a highly cultured court, essentially as the adopted child of Edward the Confessor and Edith due to their childlessness.
• [04:21] Debate over his actual status at court—was he formally designated as heir or just present?
• Evidence suggests Edward the Confessor did recognize Edgar as heir by granting him the title "Ætheling" and including him in official records as part of his family unit.

2. 1066 and the Lost Crown

• [09:00] Upon Edward’s death in 1066, Edgar, though the legitimate blood heir, is passed over. Harold Godwinson is crowned instead amid rumors that Edward designated him as heir on his deathbed—a claim only witnessed by Harold’s supporters.
• [10:08] A: “...the phrase ‘to your protection’ could imply Harold as heir, but it sounds more like guardian or regency.”
• Harold uses his political power to secure the throne ("He’s the major landowner in England...effectively been running the country for years" [11:11]), especially in the face of likely invasion from William of Normandy.

3. Edgar's Brief Role as "Elected" King

• [13:34] A: “Edgar the Ætheling is elected King of England in October 1066. You could argue he is technically king.”
• After Harold’s death at Hastings, English leaders, especially in London and the north, attempt to rally around Edgar as king.
• His authority quickly collapses as William advances and leading church officials and nobles abandon him, leading to his submission to William in December 1066.

4. Perpetual Opposition and Exile

• [17:03] William the Conqueror initially keeps Edgar and other English rivals alive and close to prevent rebellion, later sending them to Normandy.
• Edgar escapes to Scotland, finding refuge with Malcolm III, who would later marry Edgar's sister Margaret, strengthening the Anglo-Scottish dynastic ties.

5. Rebellions and Restorations (1069–1074)

• [18:24] Edgar supports multiple northern revolts, being proclaimed king at York and drawing international support, first from Denmark (King Sweyn Estridsson) and then from Scotland. Yet each attempt is crushed by William, often before any substantial battle.
• [18:36] Memorable moment: “When an uprising starts in Northumbria, he takes his chance. Saxon rebels capture York and acclaim Edgar as king.”
• William’s brutal response: Harrying of the North devastates his northern support.
• [19:53] Denmark and Scotland fail to commit fully, each deserting Edgar at critical moments. “William just bribes Sven to leave...Malcolm sees which way the wind’s blowing...and that’s kind of it for Edgar.”

6. Later Years: Loyalty, Crusades, and Influence in Scotland

• [23:58] After years of futility, Edgar submits to William, joins the Anglo-Norman court, and embarks on knightly adventures—campaigning in southern Italy and later joining Robert Curthose (Duke of Normandy and his close friend) on the First Crusade.
• [25:32] A: “Edgar and Rufus seem to have been reconciled, but Malcolm and Rufus continued to squabble...Malcolm is killed in an ambush.”
• [26:39] C: “Edgar the Etheling conquers Scotland. Wow.”
  • Edgar rescues and restores his nephews to the Scottish throne, acting with William Rufus’s support—a rare clear-cut success in his career.
• [39:11] A (on the Crusade): “Amongst them, the most distinguished was Edgar Etheling. And he immediately took the city under his protection and...transferred it to [Robert of Normandy].”

7. Final Years and Legacy

• [27:25] After the defeat and imprisonment of his friend Robert by Henry I, Edgar is spared—likely due to the intercession of his niece (now Queen Matilda, Henry’s wife).
• Ends his days quietly in England, the “nearly monarch who outlived his era.”
• [29:13] A, quoting William of Malmesbury: “After various revolutions of fortune, he now grows old in the country in privacy and quiet.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Edgar’s repeated bad luck and ineffectual rebellions:

  • [22:40] C: “Oh, that’s so gloomy.”
  • [42:27] A: “He sort of seems to be a veritable bad luck character charm at this point...even when the King of France provided support, fate was crushingly inevitable in its disastrous intervention.”

• On his character and ultimate significance:

  • [28:33] A: “Not for himself, but ultimately, he kept the family going and there they are, ruling Scotland, ruling England. His life’s work to restore the Saxon line is strangely complete.”
  • [58:32] A: “There’s something weird about the way he just carries on being there and the fact that he’s still alive in 1125. He almost outlives the Norman era.”

• On his “Rex Factor”:

  • [60:46] A: “It’s amazing the fact that he was one that should have been king and that it would have changed everything if he had been king.”

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Structural Breakdown & Important Timestamps

• [01:25–02:35] Introduction & context for Edgar as the last Saxon “Nearly Monarch”
• [02:35–08:28] Edgar’s early years, lineage, and supposed adoption by Edward the Confessor
• [09:00–12:57] 1066 crisis: Edward’s death, Harold’s usurpation, Edgar’s sidelining
• [13:07–15:57] Edgar’s brief election as king and rapid collapse of his cause
• [17:03–21:12] Edgar’s exiles, Scottish refuge, and failed rebellions with Danish and Scottish support
• [23:58–29:37] Integration into the Norman regime, overseas ventures, restoration of Scottish relatives
• [39:11] His role in the First Crusade
• [54:04–55:51] Debate over how to score Edgar’s longevity and reign: “If we say 1066 to 1125...that’s 59 years and a score of 19 out of 20, which is the second best for the series.”
• [57:34–61:22] Final verdict: Edgar receives “Rex Factor” status despite constant failures for his persistence, survival, and the “unwritten legend” of what might have been

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The Hosts’ Tone & Assessment

Graham and Ali approach Edgar’s story with trademark warmth, humor, and gentle irony—frequently marveling at his knack for survival, repeated failed uprisings, and surprising kindness from Norman kings. They liken Edgar to “Margaret Beaufort”—influential behind the scenes, ensuring dynastic restoration not for himself, but for others. There’s affection for his “bad luck charm” status, unwillingness to give up, and a wistful recognition that with different timing, English history might have looked entirely different.

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Conclusion & Rex Factor

Did Edgar the Ætheling have the Rex Factor?

• Yes—from both hosts. Not for his conquests, but for his remarkable survival, lasting presence, and the epic sweep of his almost-royal life.
• [60:33] C: “Oh, I think he’s Rexy all over.”
• [58:35] A: “The survival. Born in Hungary, acclaimed king—the rebellions...If he’d been just a few years older, the Norman Conquest probably never would have even happened.”

The episode ends by celebrating Edgar as the ultimate "nearly monarch": always present, never quite victorious, but shaping history from the wings—and finally getting the recognition (and affection) he so often missed in life.

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Further Learning

• Next episode: Robert, Duke of Normandy—the other half of Edgar’s “bromance.”
• Upcoming interviews will explore the 1066 succession crisis and more on Edgar’s contemporaries.

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For full details, lively banter, and the hosts’ trademark comedic warmth, listen to “Rex Factor: Edgar the Ætheling.”

Transcript

[A]

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[C]

This week, Edgar the Earthling. With your Graham Duke and Ali Hood.

[A]

Hello, hello and welcome to Rex Factor. Reviewing all the nearly monarchs of England and the United Kingdom, from Aethelwold to Albert Victor, the people who could or should become monarch only for fate to intervene. Head to our website rexfactorpodcast.com to find links to all our social media pages. And if you want more of us, you can sign up to join the privy [e-mail] RexFactor where you get an ad free version of the podcast and over 450 bonus episodes.

[C]

Nice.

[A]

Plus you can watch us on Spotify or YouTube as long as both of our phones manage to hold out for the entire episode. Which hasn't happened in the last couple.

[C]

Yeah, and even this episode.

[A]

Yes. Now today we are going to be discussing Edgar the Etheling. It's the last in our Saxon miniseries for nilleemonics. And appropriately, he is the last Anglo Saxon prince often forgotten about or sort of looked over when it comes to the story of 1066. But actually he's the one that's got the best claim to the throne.

[C]

Yeah, because he's. That's the regular run of things. These other two are outsiders.

[A]

Exactly. So we're gonna find out. If he had the best claim, how come it never quite happened for Edgar in 1066 and then what does he do afterwards? Biography Edgar the Etheling is born in hungary in about 1052, the son of Edward the Exile that we did a few episodes ago and Agatha, of disputed but notable origins. His father is the son of Anglo Saxon warrior king Edmund Ironside and was forced into exile after a Viking conquest of eng. England in 1016. So he travels across Scandinavia, Kievan Rus and Hungary before returning to England in 1057 to become the heir to the childless Edward the Confessor, only to die pretty much the moment that he sets foot in England. Now it's unclear if Edgar arrives in England with his father or shortly after his death, but nevertheless, pretty early on he does come to England and he enters the household of Edward the Confessor and his wife Edith, who's the sister of Edward's leading nobleman, Harold Godwinson.

[C]

He must have been complete foreigner though in culture, language, looks, the way he dressed, everything right, he's a strange little

[A]

five year old boy from Hungary.

[C]

05

[A]

but still it's an odd, it's an odd approach for the family, but nevertheless they are there and they join the royal household. Lacking their own children, Edward and Eda seem to brought Edgar and his siblings Margaret and Christine are up sort of as if their own children along with other high born children and make sure they get a very highly cultured education. Now the big question is what was Edgar's status at court now that his father had died?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Was he Edward the Confessor's heir or is he just sort of there and no one's sure what to do with him?

[C]

That's the feeling I've always got.

[A]

Strangely absent from most narratives, including the Bayeux Tapestry. He is not in that at all. Many assume, like you said, many assume that he's not a serious contender. The Carmen de Hasting Guy, which is the earliest written account of the Battle of Hastings, said it. Edward's great nephew Edgar was still very young. Against him, however, were his extreme youth, his foreign birth and perhaps his character against him.

[C]

Oh, right. I always thought that was a plus for him. Nice bloke.

[A]

Well, I mean maybe that's a plus in terms of, you know, the man, but not necessarily the job. But yes, foreign born, no lands or obvious allies facing the likes of Harold Godwins and William Duke of Normandy and Howard Hardrada.

[C]

And he's five.

[A]

And he's five at this point. But you know, these are three of the most impressive military leaders of their day. What hope does he really have in 1066?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So it'd Be understandable if some has suggested Edward the Confessor decided it's just a non starter, can't be bothered. But England had had boy kings before and there were recent contemporary precedents in Germany and France in the last few years. And whilst the Saxon succession, as we've been discussing this series, doesn't operate under strict line of precedents, a close blood link was important. And the only way to ensure the support of the Wheatan really is to have a full on legitimate royal prince right to claim the throne. That's how Edward the Confessor himself would become king after 20 odd years in exile when the Vikings took over. That's why he recalled Edgar's father in the first place, because those ties of blood were so strong that they could, even an exiled prince of 40 years could nevertheless still get people to be around them. And the only legitimate Royal Prince in 1066 is Edgar. He's the only one.

[C]

Yeah. Because the other fellas a duke. The other fellas a king.

[A]

Duke of a different country. Country, yeah.

[C]

Interesting.

[A]

Yeah. And there is evidence that Edgar was recognized as heir. His father, the exile is buried at St Paul's alongside Edward the Confessor's father, rather than at Glastonbury where Edward the Exile's own father is actually buried. So that is sort of publicly, publicly proclaiming by Edward that the family is connected to him. It's his part of the family rather than a separate one. Which feels like he's saying, yes, Edgar's part of my right.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Edgar is designated Etheling, which we've heard many times in this series, meaning he is throne worthy. And it's pretty much the first time in about 200 years that an Etheling was not the son of a previous monarch.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Because he's a grandson, not a son. Well, but that means that it's not an automatic thing. It suggests that Edward the Confessor actively chose to grant him the title of Etheling.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because it was unusual.

[C]

But also it's just a crack, isn't it? It's that one weakness to exploit.

[A]

It's a crack. But when we're talking about what the plans were for Edgar, the fact that Edward the Confessor gives him this title suggests he would only have done that if he wanted to designate him as heir. Yeah. It must really mean when he does that. Yeah. So he's an ethling by choice by Edward. We have the liber vitae of New Minster in Wessex from about somewhere between 1060 and 63, which lists a ceremony where honorary members were inducted and it lists King Edward, Queen Edith, and they are followed immediately in the group in the sentence by Edgar Clito.

[C]

Oh, Cleto.

[A]

Yeah, it's like Latin for Etheling. But often we've seen used denote heir. So that is suggesting that they are. Yeah. And also that they are being grouped as a family unit. So effectively Edgar being presented as an adopted son.

[C]

Yeah, completely.

[A]

And we've seen in our Consort series how queen mothers often had such a prominent role. So Edith, being younger than Edward, you could see that she is the Queen Dowager, the adoptive Queen mother, could have had an important, effective Regency role.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

She is the sister of Harold Godwinson, who you might have hoped would thus be the sort of guardian of the realm, the military leader. There's evidence that Edward was pursuing a marriage alliance between Malcolm iii, the King of Scots, and Edgar's sister Margaret, which would give you a foreign, external sort of source of alliance and protection. So Edward Confessor may have felt that he actually had sorted out the succession for 1066 and that everything was in place and Edgar was just the heir and there wasn't really any question mark about it.

[C]

Yeah, that does sound like it.

[A]

Unfortunately, though, when Edward died on 5 January 1066, he was instead succeeded by Harold Godwinson.

[C]

How did that come about again?

[A]

Well, exactly how does it go so wrong if the plan was for Edgar? So the official explanation is that Edward declared Harold his heir on his deathbed. So I guess maybe a last moment of, like, Edgar's never going to be him. Okay, you do it, Harold. You're the only hope we have.

[C]

However, was Harold the only person to hear this?

[A]

Basically, yes. So there is actually plenty of evidence to suggest that Harold usurped the throne in 1066. So the abbot of Bury St Edmunds, who was the physician of Edwards and quite possibly at the deathbed, said that he seized the throne with cunning force and his coronation was sacrilegious.

[C]

He. I've always got what's his name? Richard, Duke of York, vibes about Godwinson. So it doesn't surprise me.

[A]

A definitive eyewitness is Edith.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Queen Dowager, who is there. She commissioned the Vita Edwardi, which describes the deathbed scene on which the Bayer tapestry depiction is essentially based. And in her text it says, and stretching forth his hand to his governor, her brother Harold, he said, I commend this woman and all the kingdom to your protection. Serve and honour her with faithful obedience as your lady and sister, which she is, and do not despoil her of any due honour. Got from me?

[C]

Well, he's saying that he's given it to her.

[A]

Well, that's the thing. You see, the phrase to your protection could imply Harold as the heir, but it sounds more like a form of guardian or regency. Indeed, the Latin word nutritious was also used in the same document, the Vito Duode, to describe the situation of the boy king, Henry I, being entrusted to a guardian. Nutritious. So the same word, not king, not heir, guardian, protection. It implies Harold is meant to be the strong army, the protector, but not the king.

[C]

It's Richard, Duke of York, isn't it?

[A]

Harry of a monkey at the Abbey of Sanrecchio, who had close ties to the court, wrote in the late 11th century that Harold had reneged on the sacramental oath which he had sworn to the aforesaid king, pledging that he would concede the kingdom to the King's great nephew, named Edgar, without any impediment. So the question is, how does Harold pull it off? And probably it's just basic power. He's just too powerful to resist. He's the major landowner in England. He's effectively been running the country for several years already, and his younger brothers have got various earldoms east and south of the country, and he agrees to marry the sister of the Earls of Mercy on Northumbria. So it's effectively solidifying his support across the entire nation. Perhaps the knowledge of William's likely invasion focused his minds a little bit more on having an experienced warrior rather than a teenage boy. They thought, well, probably we've got something coming. Better off having the big strong man that fights wars than the teenage boy.

[C]

Yeah, it can't help but, I mean, even if it were power, the situation has to allow, it doesn't.

[A]

Did, rather, but perhaps misguided, because, of course, it doesn't all work out to that end. So ultimately, of course, William will invade and Harold is waiting for him in the south, only to be surprised, as we were talking about last time with the survivor, the northern invasion of Harald Hardrada. So he zooms up, deals with the Vikings, but of course, English forces are seriously weakened as a result of the Battle of Stamford Bridge. And then William lands a few days later in the south. So Harold has to come all the way back down again, fights the Battle of Hastings and along with the bulk of his army and his two younger brothers, is killed, leaving William to claim the throne.

[C]

Dear, oh, dear.

[A]

Now, traditionally, in the 1066 story, we then basically skip ahead to William being crowned on Christmas Day. Yeah, but that's not actually how it happened. Well, it was ultimately what did happen.

[C]

There's November to think about, isn't it?

[A]

Yeah, exactly, there's November. And the Anglo Saxon Chronicle describes how the resistance to William continued. Eldred, Archbishop of York and the earls just mentioned with the citizens of London and the seamen were desirous to proclaim Edgar the Etheling King and promised that they would renew the war under his banner.

[C]

This is such a threat if this is the first challenge to William's reign.

[A]

So, effectively, Edgar the Etheling is elected King of England in October 1066. You could argue that he is technically king.

[C]

He hasn't had a crown put on

[A]

his bonds, he doesn't have a coronation. So his bonce is crownless, but nevertheless hairless.

[C]

Really, at this age as well.

[A]

Nevertheless, all the people who matter in England who are English have said, right, this is the guy. Probably as soon as they know the outcome of Hastings.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Indeed. The Anglo Saxon Chronicle stated he was chosen as he was quite natural to them. Perhaps a dig at Harold because he didn't have any kind of claim or is. It's like, yeah, and this guy, we chose him because, you know, he's actually a prince.

[C]

Yeah. We're going back to rules based order here.

[A]

Exactly. Maybe a sense that, oh, we should have done this in the first. I told you, we should have done this in the first place. No one could have argued if we just picked the prince. Yeah, yeah, bloke.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But nevertheless, he does seem to be King. He immediately takes on some kingly duties. Apparently, he. Well, didn't select. He sort of accepted a successor for the Abbot of Peterborough Abbey who came to see him.

[C]

And so he's acting like a king now.

[A]

Yes. But unfortunately he does not get everybody fully uniting behind him in the way that he needed. Perhaps if they'd done so, they could still have averted the Norman conquest. Perhaps there was still hope, but really, because he's so young, inexperienced, he needs strong leaders around him to really fight the battle.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And unfortunately, the strong leaders are mostly dead.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And William is coming, although actually, initially he isn't coming. He does actually seem to be waiting at Hastings for the red carpet to be laid out and is a bit irked when the invitation doesn't come and he finds out that they've elected Edgar as king instead.

[C]

Really?

[A]

Yes. Because he thought, well, I mean, I've just killed the King and won the battle. I mean.

[C]

Yeah. What else? Oh, you're going to rebel. Oh, this is fun.

[A]

So he has to press his case More forcefully. So he secures Dover, Canterbury, the treasury at Winchester, and then marches on London. And at that point, English morale collapses immediately. The Archbishop of Canterbury blinks first and pays him homage. And then after that, it all falls apart very, very quickly. Edgar and the rest of them follow. Early in December and Edgar's reign is over.

[C]

Does Edgar go up and bend the knee and all that jazz?

[A]

Yep. Edgar has to do as well. They all have to do it.

[C]

Fine.

[A]

But with William keen to stress that he had been Edward's chosen heir and Harold had usurped his right to the claim, Norman histories see fit to write Edgar out of the story.

[C]

Do that bit again. Sorry.

[A]

Well, because William wants to stress that Harold has usurped the throne, but from him.

[C]

From William not mentioning Edgar. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So they just write Edgar out of it. They just don't mention him because it's awkward, because Edgar does actually obviously have a far better friend than William, whereas Harold is the usurper.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So that becomes the official story for the Normans. And obviously Harold earlier on wouldn't have been stressing Edgar either. So that's why on both sides, weirdly, it's easier just to pretend he isn't there. But.

[C]

But, so. So at this point, Edgar's got the chance to just lay low.

[A]

Well, exactly. The question then, of course, is what would become of Edgar? And unlike Canute's conquest in 1016, William doesn't eliminate dynastic rivals when he comes over. In fact, he actually keeps most people in existing posts. The people who are still alive after Hastings basically stay. Stay where they are. He doesn't get rid of anybody at first.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

May even have valued Edgar because of his kinship with Edward. Confessor feels like he needs to treat him, to be seen, to treat him with respect.

[C]

And is it like if he's. Does he legitimise him? If he kills him?

[A]

Yeah. Or martyrs him, perhaps. Now, it's not to say that William actually trusts Edgar or any of the other Englishmen. So the following year, he goes back to Normandy, 1067, and he basically brings them all back with him, so they can't ferment rebellion in his absence. And on his return to England, Edgar seems to have had enough, so leaves court this summer. The child Edgar departed with his mother, Agatha, and his two sisters, Margaret and Christina, and many good men with them, and came to Scotland under the protection of King Malcolm, who entertained them all. But he's not gone for long. The Norman conquest doesn't happen at Hastings. It began there. And we have isolated Rebellions popping up across the country. But it's in the north that Edgar seems to have his support and his opportunity. So in 1069, Gospatrick, the newly appointed Earl of Northumbria, and several of his best men crossed the border to Jo Edgar in Scotland. And Edgar now is about 17, so he's old enough now to lead troops. He's old enough to be more of a figurehead for a rebellion than in 1066. So when an uprising starts in Northumbria, he takes his chance. Saxon rebels capture York and they acclaim Edgar as king.

[C]

We've got to lose his head now. No, he doesn't. I just don't understand how.

[A]

Of course, William storms up and defeats the rebels and Edgar runs back to

[C]

Scotland with a bounty on his head.

[A]

However, a few months later, he's back again, because this time, Sven Estridsson, King of Denmark that we mentioned last time in Haldrad rada, he sends 200 ships across to the north, into the Humber, and once again, York is captured, Edgar's acclaimed as king, and William zooms up, sends everybody home, and he's off back to Scotland again.

[C]

What is he doing? What? It's almost like he's just. It's more like he's breaking up a party when. Yes, you've left him at home, you've left your child at home, they're having a party. Also, that Edgar knows this will be the response.

[A]

Well, yeah, you would have thought after the first time.

[C]

Yeah, it's very, very strange.

[A]

William follows this with the brutal harrying of the north in 1070. But Edgar is not done yet. So he persuades Malcolm III to actually lead an invasion because he's just been protecting him at this point, but he's not getting involved. But 1070, Malcolm is going to come south. And Sven Estridsen, the King of Denmark, now leads a fleet in person to England.

[C]

The Old Svensback.

[A]

Old Svensback. So you potentially. They've got Denmark, Scotland, Saxon rebels, you can coordinate them. Suddenly you've really got a proper threat to William.

[C]

But coordinating foreign armies together.

[A]

Indeed they weren't. William just bribes Sven to leave, basically pays the last Danegeld. And Sven's like, yeah, to be honest, fine, that's enough. Malcolm sees which way the wind's blowing and goes back to home, to Scotland. And obviously for Edgar, that's kind of it.

[C]

They told me to do it. He's got nowhere left to run now, is he?

[A]

Well, Malcolm offers Edgar a place at his court again, but he seems to have had Enough after a year or so of trying. So he decides to take his family to the continent. However, he's rarely able to determine his own fate, so a terrible storm forces them back and shipwrecks them in Scotland. And now he is compelled to seek Malcolm's protection. And it is granted, but on the condition that Malcolm finally gets to marry Edgar's sister, Margaret.

[C]

Will I never.

[A]

Now, this, of course, gives Malcolm a stake in English affairs. He's obviously motivated to help Edgar, but also now, any children he has, my Margaret will have a claim to the English throne.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Likewise, of course, Edgar now has something mistaken. Scottish affairs. His nephews will, of course, one day be kings of Scots.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

None of this, of course, is lost on William, who in 1071, brings a large army to Scotland and enforces Malcolm's submission.

[C]

But he's already married, Margaret.

[A]

He's already married Margaret. He can't undo that. But he can demand that Malcolm pledge not to shelter any of William's enemies,

[C]

apart from that little rascal.

[A]

Yeah. So Edgar has to seek sanctuary in Flanders with Gosspatrick, the former Earl of Northumbria. Now, Flanders is a safe refuge, but it's not going to provide him with any practical support. But in 1074, William's busy on the continent, so Edgar and Gospatrick come back to Scotland and try and get Malcolm to have another go at it.

[C]

You boys again.

[A]

And indeed, he's not willing to risk William's rath. He's seeing what a Norman army looks like. Says no. But Edgar gets a surprise offer of assistance from King Philip I of France.

[C]

France? Yeah.

[A]

Which seems unlikely, but we discussed with Edward the exile there is a possible connection. If Edward the exile's wife was a daughter of Yaroslav the Wise, then Edward and Philip and that Edgar and Philip would have been first cousins via these daughters of Yaroslav, so that might explain why there is a certain kinship. And Philip might think of Edgar as a useful person to use against William. So, you know, after a near decade of thwarted ambition, misfortune, dislocation, perhaps fortune finally turning in Edgar's favour, he's got the King of France offering money and treasure and weapons, a castle as well. But fortune is always a fickle friend for Edgar. And he is once more shipwrecked, losing all of the treasure and all of the weapons and everything that he'd got. And he has to return, wet and miserable, to Scotland once more.

[C]

Oh, that's so gloomy.

[A]

Malcolm probably wondering what he's got to do to be rid of Edgar. But he seems to have given Edgar the chat and he urges him to just give it up and submit to William.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's what he does. So he goes to Normandy. Then King William received him with much pomp and he was there afterwards in his court, enjoying such rights as he confirmed to him by law.

[C]

So he's just joined the team. Yeah.

[A]

This time, Edgar's submission is genuine. He becomes part of the Anglo Norman court and he doesn't rebel against William again.

[C]

Can't beat them, join him.

[A]

So the next decade is significantly quieter than the last. Nedgar doesn't really make any impression on the historical record, but the Domesday Book shows him possessing two estates in Hertfordshire. And possibly he might have had more. But it seems like in 1086, he actually sells up shop, so perhaps these are just leftovers rather than all that he ever had, you know. Now in his mid-30s, he's actually now become an Anglo Norman knight. He's got his own retinue and he's ready to seek adventures of his own. So in 1086, he takes 200 knights and apparently goes to Apulia or Puglia to participate in the Norman conquest of southern Italy. Then he makes for Normandy because he's befriended William's eldest son, Robert.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

An Orderic vitalist describes them as virtually foster brothers. And Edgar becomes one of Robert's closest advisors and was granted an honoured place at his court with his own land and riches.

[C]

Nice.

[A]

There's something quite sweet that these two men become friends because as we'll see, we'll do him in the next miniseries. Robert also finds himself continually denied the English throne.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

When you would have expected it to him. So when William the Conqueror dies, he leaves Normandy to Robert, but the second son, William Rufus, becomes King of England.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Perhaps egged on by Edgar sort of living vicariously through. Through his friend, Robert will spend the next 20 years on and off, pursuing the English crown and probably sees Edgar as kind of a key ally.

[C]

So now, what does William Rufus make of Edgar?

[A]

He's a bit suspicious. So in 1091, William Rufus invades Normandy, forces Robert to come to terms, and indeed, one of his demands is that Edgar is expelled from court and deprived of his lands.

[C]

No. Where does he go now?

[A]

Well, I don't quite know where he goes, but he is able to reconcile with rufus. So in 1093, we almost have a battle between William Rufus and Malcolm iii. And Edgar is actually. Edgar probably goes to Scotland. So Edgar's in Scotland, Robert's with Rufus. But the two of them are like, oh, mate, friend. And they intercede and they're able to prevent the battle and bring Rufus and Edgar, well, Robert and Edgar, who are on opposite sides. Cause they're mates. They get chatting, they bring the rival kings, Malcolm and Rufus, to the table.

[C]

Oh, lovely.

[A]

They all have a chat and decide to go home.

[C]

Oh, brilliant.

[A]

So Edgar and Rufus seem to have been reconciled, but Malcolm and Rufus continued to squabble. And then, unfortunately, in 1093, Malcolm is killed in an ambush when raiding England one last time.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Now, instead of one of Edgar's nephews becoming king, Malcolm's brother Donalbane seizes the throne.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And puts the youngsters at risk, as Margaret, his sister, dies pretty much as soon as she hears the news.

[C]

She becomes a martyr, doesn't she? A saint.

[A]

Yes. So she dies. Malcolm dies. His eldest son by Margaret died in the battle as well. So Donalbane seizes the throne and the youngsters are sort of holed up in Edinburgh Castle, somewhat at risk. However, Edgar launches a rescue mission, gets them out of Scotland, really brings themselves to England, and then uses his Newfoundland influence to persuade William Rufus to support their restoration. So in 1097, Rufus sends Edgar himself to lead an army and puts his namesake Edgar, nephew, Edgar of Scotland, on the throne. So defeats Donalbane and has him blinded. And then his nephew is.

[C]

That's it. He conquers Scotland. Yeah. Edgar the Etheling conquers Scotland. Wow.

[A]

So with his family restored in Scotland, Edgar then joins Robert on the First Crusade.

[C]

Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Distinguishes himself at Antioch. But while they're away, William Rufus dies and the younger brother Henry takes advantage of Robert's absence to seize the throne and become Henry I. Yeah. So Edgar, of course, is at Robert's side in the Battle of Tinchebray in 1105, when the brothers fight in Normandy, essentially for the throne. And once again, fortune is not on their side. So Robert and Edgar are comprehensively defeated and captured by Henry.

[C]

Henry I now.

[A]

Yes, Henry I.

[C]

Right.

[A]

So Robert, of course, is imprisoned for the rest of his life.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But Edgar again is granted clemency.

[C]

Robert wasn't his mate, though, was he?

[A]

Robert was Edgar's mate.

[C]

Yeah. Robert was Edgar's mate. Okay. Against Rufus. Yeah.

[A]

Well, initially against Rufus, now against Henry.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But Henry let Edgar go unpunished.

[C]

Oh, that's almost worse, though. He split up from his mate.

[A]

Well, yeah, but in terms of why, most likely because Henry has married Matilda, formerly Edith, who is Edgar's niece. This is another child of Malcolm And Margaret, so she's the one that continues the Saxon line and marries Henry. So thus Edgar's niece is the Queen of England and his nephew is the King of Scots. And almost certainly she intercedes with Henry on Edgar's behalf because obviously he'd saved her.

[C]

Do what you like to your brother, but being nice to my uncle.

[A]

Exactly. And you know, with his niece and her Saxon royal blood on the throne, weirdly, Edgar sort of isn't any more threat to Henry. His life's work to restore the Saxon line is strangely complete.

[C]

He's weirdly won it, isn't he?

[A]

Yeah, not for himself, but ultimately he kept the family going and there they are, ruling Scotland, ruling England. Henry, Matilda's children were Edgar's grand nephew and grand niece, which is the exact same relationship that he had had with the Confessor.

[C]

He's Margaret Beaufort. He's beauforted, isn't he? He's beauforted in this.

[A]

He's Beau farted his way into restoring the Saxon royal line. But yes, everything's come full circle. There are no more battles for him to fight.

[C]

No.

[A]

And the last record we have of Edgar is from William of Malmesbury, whose great work of history was written in 1125.

[C]

Oh, quite close then.

[A]

Well, and William says of him, after various revolutions of fortune, he now grows old in the country in privacy and quiet.

[C]

Oh my days.

[A]

So he's still alive in 1125 and William writes his history. About 73 years old, living a quiet life of retirement, out of the game, planted potatoes, hopefully content.

[C]

Well, not potatoes, parsnips, swedes, turnips. I mean, well done. It sort of feels a lot like life at the moment where you're doing loads of the. Taking a load of hits for it to inevit inevitably. This is why I get into this, to pay off in the long run. And he just for the sake of no glory, he gets to live it out. I'll take that.

[A]

Yeah. Have that many rebellions failed? Rebellions against William the Conqueror and William Rufus and Henry the first and losing

[C]

other people's treasure close to home.

[A]

Well, that was the life and the non reign of Edgar the Etheling. We'll review him after a quick break. So just a quick message to say that Rex Factor are going to be doing a live show at the Ludlow assembly rooms on Friday 21st August at 7 o' clock pm. We're going to be looking at the four main contenders for the throne in 1066. Harold Godwinson, William the Conqueror, Harold Hardrada, And Edgar the Atheling. And we're going to ask the audience who comes to the show to decide who should have become the king. We've had lots of fun, we've been to Ludlow in previous years and we've really loved getting the chance to meet Rexfactor fans in person. So if you are able to then please do come along to join us on Friday 21st of August at the Ludlow Assembly Rooms. You can get tickets directly from the Ludlow Assembly Rooms website or we will have a link to it on our website rexfactorpodcast.com hopefully we'll get to see you there.

[B]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doomscrolling.

[C]

Smart move.

[B]

Another smart move getting help help from one of State Farm's 19,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

[A]

Too young to be effective in 1066. But Edgar proves himself a thorn in William's side. In subsequent years he had strong support in the north. So the first rebellions in his name come in 1069. Start off in the northeast Durham, and then they move down and capture York. And Edgar set out with all the Northumbrians and all the people riding and marching with an immense host, rejoicing exceedingly lovely. And you can imagine, you know, he's 17 at this point. He's finally got some people, he's like, oh, it's nice up here.

[C]

Yeah, on a top of horse.

[A]

Obviously the rebellion's immediately put down by William. But then in September of the same year, King Sven Denmark sends a fleet of about 240 ships, land in the Humber and quickly link up with Edgar and the English rebels.

[C]

This is the bit that makes least sense.

[A]

Well, I guess Sven is sort of interested. He's kind of getting involved a little bit.

[C]

It's just a done thing at that point.

[A]

Yeah, because he's got that. He's got that sort of claim as well because he's Knut's nephew.

[C]

I mean, why, why William at this point doesn't just lost your novel, why he doesn't lose his novel and go around slaughtering everyone?

[A]

Well, I suppose initially you've got to deal with the threat. So it says they were met by the child, Edgar and Earl Waltheof and Earl Gospatrick were the Northumbrians and all the landsmen riding and marching full merrily with an immense army. And so all unanimously advanced to York, where they stormed and demolished the castle and won innumerable treasures therein.

[C]

Why do they keep doing this that I so stupid, asking these pointless questions. But they've just gone through 1066. Why do they where all these the people that have now been born to take the place of the people that died? Are they thinking, why are we fighting this one?

[A]

Well, I guess the issue is that there was no leadership or coordination really once, Hastings. That happens. That's not to say that all of the Anglo Saxons between The ages of 15 and 60 are dead.

[C]

Yeah. It's not Ukraine.

[A]

It's just that they don't have any sort of leadership or structure to it and it's happened. They can't resist it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But actually there's still a lot of people resisting, William.

[C]

Yeah. It's a resistance movement, then.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

That gives it a bit more energy.

[A]

And obviously having influx of Danish troops is a massive boon to all of that. So we've got a slightly disparaging reference to the child, Edgar.

[C]

Yeah. Purposeful.

[A]

Aside from that, he is firmly at the centre of events. He's welcomed the Danes, he's at the front of the list. Takes York again, destroys William's new castle there. Apparently personally. He led a raid into Lincolnshire as well. Edgar, you know, he's getting his jollies. Unfortunately, William again just storms up and puts the rebellion down.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Takes them by surprise. 1070, Sweyn himself leads a fleet to England and Malcolm III is persuaded by Edgar to get joined in. So, like you said, you've got potentially there, the recipe you want with two foreign powers joining in north and south, because Fenn sort of goes down to Ely at this point. And Hereward.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Awaken all the people down there. But William just buys Sven off. Sven leaving kind of takes the fun out of it for Malcolm and then, you know, there's nothing going on there. But still, it's pretty impressive that Edgar had got Scotland and Denmark both signed up for action, even if neither of them actually bothered to fight. Yeah, yeah, Looks quite good.

[C]

Yeah, he can go. He can revisit that.

[A]

Ironically, Edgar's much more successful in securing the restoration of his nephews in Scotland than he ever was pursuing his own interests. So in 1094, nephews and niece is imprisoned by their Scottish uncle, Donalbane, after the death of Malcolm and Margaret. So they're holed up in Edinburgh Castle. There's a reaction against what was seen as the Anglican Anglicisation of the Scottish court. Oh, yeah, after Margaret. So presumably they're pretty vulnerable. However, John of Fordham relates that they were rescued by good old Uncle Edgar. Meanwhile, Edgar, etheling, brother to the just mentioned Queen, gathered together the sons and daughters of the King of the and of the Queen, his sister, and secretly bringing them over with him into England, sent them to be brought up by his kinsmen and acquaintances, not openly, but in hiding, as it were.

[C]

So who brought them up?

[A]

Well, Edgar's brought them to England and he basically finds safe places to put

[C]

them and the King of England knows that he's got them.

[A]

Well, that's probably why initially they're in hiding, because William Rufus might have thought, why is this guy who's constantly claiming the throne just turned up with all of the Scottish princes and princesses who also have a claim on the English throne? Looks dodgy, looks a little bit suspicious. I don't like this very much.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

He does, though, seem to work to make sure that William sees the vulnerability of their position. So rather than a threat, he says, look, they're completely lost here, they need your help to get back. So William Rufus can see it actually as a situation. Ah, I can be overlord of Scotland through supporting these because they will owe me. If they become monarch, it will only be because of me.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So I can basically put myself above Scotland at this point. So, in 1095, Rufus recognizes Edgar's nephew, also called Edgar, as the rightful King of Scots. Uncle Edgar is a witness to this charter where that's officially done, which is the second of only two that survived with him as a witness. Then in 1097, Rufus puts Edgar in charge of a campaign to restore his nephew to the Scottish throne. Also in this same year went Edgar etheling with an army into Scotland with the King's aid, and in a severe battle won that land and drove out the King Domhnail. And in fealty to King William, he there appointed as king his nephew Edgar, the son of King Malcolm and of Margaret the Queen. And afterwards, again, he returned to England.

[C]

Brilliant job done then.

[A]

Yeah, so he's done it. He kicked off one king, put his nephew on the throne. He'd won a battle, defeated the old guy. He's, as you said, conquered Scotland.

[C]

This guy needs more attention, doesn't he?

[A]

And it's quite sort of. It's a rare high point for Edgar. In many ways, it's quite poignant that he succeeds in securing a crown for his nephew 30 years after he'd Failed to do it for himself.

[C]

He never succeeds at his own, for his own benefit. Yeah.

[A]

And there's an iron, of course, that the Normans took his throne, but then they're the ones that give him the army to secure his nephews.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Lots of weird, weird emotions going on for Edgar.

[C]

He's just. He must just be feel such a slave to fortune that whatever, he'll just ride the next wave, see what happens.

[A]

Now he also has some international adventures, the first of which was the Norman Conquest of Italy in 1086. The conflict is losing its impetus by the time Edgar gets out there, so unfortunately we don't have any evidence of what he gets up to.

[C]

Right.

[A]

But still, do they get it? I think so. A decade later, however, Orderic Vitalis reported that Edgar joined the First Crusade, travelling with an English fleet, landing at Latakia in the Levant in 1098, before distinguishing himself at Antioch. Amongst them, the most distinguished was Edgar Ethelink. And he immediately took the city under his protection and preserving his loyalty to Duke Robert, transferred it to him after the victory over the pagans. Robert of Normandy, his best mate.

[C]

Okay. Yeah. So he went on Crusade as well. Robert of Normandy. That's absolutely amazing, isn't it? Is this after he's done the Scottish stuff?

[A]

Yes, I mean that's.

[C]

It's a bit.

[A]

Some historians seen a bit of a problem with it in that he's sort of said to be there, but actually is in Scotland at the time. So that's probably what happens, is that Robert goes proper and Edgar joins him later once he's done the Scottish business. So Edgar won't be there at the very start of it all.

[C]

Rufus is sending one off there, one over here and they'll come back, but

[A]

he's still got time, so join up later.

[C]

So he. He's going there with. So like, that's him in his prime. He's just completed a smash and grab and done Scotland in. Now he's off on a crusader and he does well on the Crusades. Brilliant.

[A]

However, it's not all, as we saw, successful when it comes to battalioness for Edgar. He does get involved in the resistance of the Norman Conquest, but he did have an actual reign with disputed reign, of course, but. And that did go out with rather a disappointing whimper.

[C]

Oh, right. Yeah, well, when he was 5.

[A]

Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, remembering as well that, you know, Howard Hardrada is in his first battle at 15. So it's not that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, Edgar very much feels like a sort of a modern slightly. He's not kind of got all of his limbs in the right place. 15 year old. That's a bit awkward.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

There are other types who are in

[C]

the first team at Chelsea. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Brief moment of unity for his election. But perhaps because of Edgar's youth, there is a lack of leadership. Edwin and Morcar are the senior earls, but they're particularly criticized for failing to step up to the plate. Archbishop Canterbury was the first one to blink and renounce Edgar and yeah, it all just falls away.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Archbishop Eldred came to meet him with child. Edgar and earls Edwin and Morcar and all the best men from London who submitted then for need when the most harm was done. It was very ill advised that they did not do so before

[C]

they should. What?

[A]

I. This is stupid. It should have given up in the first place. Why do you even bother? And alas, the resistance campaign's also pretty in factual. You know, you were saying 1069. Why do they keep on doing this? The same thing. Rebels take York, everyone gets excited, William appears and everyone runs away. Scottish and Danish support is good in theory, but it doesn't really amount to very much in reality.

[C]

Well, what if they run away?

[A]

And also you've got to wonder like if Sven had shown more commitment and really got involved and they defeated William, surely he'd have made himself king, Not Edgar.

[C]

Sven. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So, you know, it was nice that Edgar was like a sort of a useful sort of. Oh, yeah, yeah. You brought some people with you. Great. Yeah, we'll join them. You're. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

We're here to.

[C]

Oh, I mean, it's such a clear backstab setup. When they're both meeting for the battle, they both know that the outcome is positive. They'll.

[A]

I mean, Sven definitely knows, but you wonder whether Edgar realised.

[C]

I think Edgar realizes that he's got to make a move to be in the game. And he might realize as that dagger is coming towards him. Oh, this was the next bit.

[A]

Yes. But yeah, it didn't ultimately matter because Sven doesn't bother to fight. Malcolm doesn't bother to fight. So he doesn't really get anything out of it. He sort of seems to be in a veritable bad luck character charm at this point. Edgar. Even when the King of France provided support, fate was crushingly inevitable in its disastrous intervention. But in their voyage, evil befell them. For when they were out at sea, there came upon them such rough weather and the stormy sea and the strong wind drove them so violently on the shore that all their ships burst and they also themselves came with difficulty to the land. Their treasure was nearly all lost and some of his men were also taken

[C]

human life.

[A]

After this, of course, Edgar's persuaded by Malcolm to go to William and submit, which he did. So he's effectively subsumed into the royal court as an Anglo Norman knight. I was saying how it's surprising how leniently everybody treats him. So you wonder if this stage. Maybe Edgar's a bit of a broken man. More damningly, maybe he was never a threat in the first place. Maybe William and William Rufus and Henry, maybe they all recognize that.

[C]

But then. But let's never stop them.

[A]

No, but it's sort of. You can be magnanimous without worrying about what happens if he comes back for more, because, yeah, I'm sure he will come back for more. And you know what's going to happen because it's happened about six times already.

[C]

I don't like that theory.

[A]

William of Malmesbury was oddly hostile in his. All his accounts of Edgar for no apparent reason, describes him now as having silently slunk into contempt through his indolence, or more mildly speaking, his simplicity. For how great must his simplicity be? Who would yield up to the king for a single horse the pound of silver which he received as his daily stipend.

[C]

Pound of silver a day.

[A]

Yeah, so he's implying. I think his complaint is that Edgar seems to just be living a bit frivolously and buying expensive horses. He did, as we said, go on to have success in Scotland, but his final battle is also a disaster. And again it's for the English Sloane, but this time alongside his good friend and fellow nearly man, Robert, Duke of Normandy, at the Battle of Tansebury, they're defeated and captured by Henry the First. And again Henry is persuaded, like his father and his brother. Look, this guy, he's not a threat. Just let him. Just let him be. So he's always there, but is he actually, when he's not in Scotland or he's not commanding a Norman army, is he ever actually all that up to it?

[C]

I've got a good score. Oh, okay. I don't feel like it's a hat. That suit, that really suits him. Battliness. And I think you'd love it too.

[A]

Yeah, I think you tried it. He tried. He tried a lot of these hats, the baffle. Hats off.

[C]

Yeah, and he'll forever remember that one where somehow he got through to the FA cup final and it was a year when Accrington Stanley were the others. But he can always hold that. I mean, The Crusade is good. We've never gone mad for, I mean, Eleanor going on Crusade. We gave us some cool points for that. So I think it deserves some cool points.

[A]

It's again, it's all just a bit vague, isn't it? And there's. I say, historians do say, did he definitely go, Is this definitely a space? Italy, Scotland, Scotland's the biggest. The unequivocal, unequivocal success is Scotland takes an army, defeats Domhnail. Domhnail and puts his nephew on the throne.

[C]

6.

[A]

Yeah, I, it's because it does feel like when you go through it all, you think he does do a lot.

[C]

I mean, I'm worried that 6 isn't enough now actually.

[A]

But then you think, but his whole point, he spends. His reign fizzles out very quickly without any fight. He does these resistances to William which all end again, fizzling out, not coming to anything at all.

[C]

That's why he's nearly though.

[A]

Well, yes, but even like at least you know, I know we were not talking about, you know, nines and tens, but you remember Howard Hardrada last time, you know, two handed fighting into the thick of the Saxons, causing chaos, going berserker. Whereas Edgar is like, hey, we've got York, William's here. Oh, run away. Yeah, it's a bit like, oh, I know you're trying, but it's not really, it's not happening. Scotland, but Scotland is a big success. So, yeah, I feel like he's got some credit. He definitely deserves some credit. And he goes on the Crusade and he goes to Italy and it seems like he becomes competent adult. You know, when he's actually in his 30s, when he's actually got some life experience and training behind him and retinue, then he does pretty well. He's just not in a position when he's a young boy and teenager, he's just at the mercy of events. He's got nothing. He doesn't know what's going on.

[C]

Really. Yeah. And well, I mean it's, it's something that Edward the First never managed. Oh, I'm sticking with six, but I'm tempted to go higher, but I'm gonna stick with six. Yeah.

[A]

I suppose my thing is thinking that if you are any form of military commander between 1066 and 1105 and you line up and you see Edgar is on the opposing army, do you say, okay, we need to get, get ourselves game face on, guys. It's Edgar. Or do you think, okay, guys, to be honest. No, don't worry, you can leave Your armor off. He'd. He'll miss.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Something will happen. He'll be about to strike my head off and then he'll get run over by an elephant. Yeah. Something will go wrong. He will never win. He doesn't win. That's not what happens to Edgar.

[C]

Then 30 years later, he's planting his potatoes and they're dead in the cold, cold ground. I'm gonna stick. I'll stick. Then you're gonna stick with the six.

[A]

I'm gonna be a bit harsh of battle in as. I think I'm gonna. I'm gonna go five and a half.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I'm gonna go just into the positive because actually it is pretty impressive what he does in Scotland and his subsequent career. And he was ready for it then. He was ready for it in his 30s. He wasn't ready when 1066 came.

[C]

No.

[A]

Anyway, still six and a. Five and a half. Eleven and a half of ugliness scandal. According to the lover of tall tales, John of Forden, Scottish chronicler, when Edgar rescues his nephews from Scotland and kept them in secret in England, he was accused of treason by a member of Rufus court and sentenced to trial by combat. Sorry, who was Edgar?

[C]

By who?

[A]

Someone at Rufus's court who obviously found out that he brought the Scottish princes and princesses home without telling Rufus.

[C]

Without telling Rufus.

[A]

Well, you remember because we said that how initially he doesn't. He keeps it secret. And we said how Rufus might look at that as being a bit suspicious. Yeah, says the suggestion that he does look at it as being suspicious when he finds out about it and before Edgar's had a chance.

[C]

Oh, sorry, I thought you went up there like on a miss.

[A]

No, the initial rescue. Thankfully, an English knight, a rather ironically named Godwin of Winchester, stood as Edgar's champion and defeated the challenger. So Edgar was let off, he was restored.

[C]

And the other fellow dead. Was he dead or did he just submit?

[A]

Submit. But either way, Edgar wins.

[C]

It's a crap form of justice.

[A]

Now, it is true that a tenant of Edgar's estates in 1086 was a chap called Godwin. And when he goes off on the Crusades, he is associated with a man who's Robert's son of Godwyn. So, yeah, so sort of an accusation of treason. But equally, I think we'd probably say it wasn't treason.

[C]

Yeah, definitely wasn't.

[A]

I mean, he does rebel a lot, but you sort of feel like he's kind of got fair. He's legitimate to do that.

[C]

It's longer term treason. He's going for the long game of genetics, which, if you were to be really pernickety, is the same and he should get it in the neck for that. But kings only really care about the immediate threat, don't they?

[A]

Yeah. And other than that, I don't really have any evidence of him upsetting the apple cart. It's just the rebellions, but nothing of the bedroom variety. Nothing really terribly scandalous or bad.

[C]

Rebellions are pretty good. It's amazing he gets away with them.

[A]

It is. But I guess, would we see it as scandalous that he rebels? I think we'd say, well, it's sort of legitimate rebellion. That's what he should be doing, really. That's what he is. He's a rival claimant.

[C]

I'm not sure we've really got anything.

[A]

Theoret for scandal, subjectivity. Well, something quite sweet about Edgar is the way that he keeps on coming back to England.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

After his adventures in the Holy Lands are done, William of Malmsbury is very critical of him coming back. Edgar, having lost his companion, returned and received many gifts from the Greek and German emperors who, from respect to his noble descent, would also have endeavoured to retain him with them.

[C]

Them.

[A]

But he spurned their offers through regard to his longing for his native land. For truly, the love of their country deceives some men to such a degree that nothing seems pleasant to them unless they can breathe their native air. Edgar, therefore, deluded by this silly desire, returned to England.

[C]

He's saying he should have stayed in Mykonos. Yeah.

[A]

He's saying, look, you've got a lovely offer in Germany. Lovely offer in Byzantium. Come here, you idiot.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[A]

So. But really seems to have it in for egg. But actually it indicates a, that you've got renowned courts who are offering him a place, which is sort of a compliment, even if it's just because of.

[C]

Yeah. His birth.

[A]

But B, he eschews the lucrative offers because he actually just wants to come back to England.

[C]

Yeah. It's nice.

[A]

It's quite touching, you know, after all that time, all those adventures, now in his 50s, he still has this sense of longing for England. He has a sense of it being home, even though he never somehow has a base.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

There is something that calls him back to England. There's a commitment there, this England. Ultimately, however, his general absence from the sources means we don't really have much evidence of him really leaving any kind of legacy. His one apparent act as king was to receive a new abbot in Peterborough. But I think that may even have been after he submitted to William. I'm not even sure if that's before or if it's after. And it's just that they were a bit confused in Peterborough as to who was king now. So, weirdly, it's almost a negative because it just got William really cross with the Abbot of Peterborough. So it didn't even have a positive outcome. He just enjoyed his little moment.

[C]

There's nothing there either, is there?

[A]

So I'm not sure, other than a general sense of commitment to England.

[C]

Just.

[A]

We don't have any record of him doing anything subjectivity or any subjects to be.

[C]

You know, have any effect on.

[A]

I mean. Okay. You know, rescuing his nephews and nieces. Guess that ultimately helped restore the Saxon line. He sort of plays a part in that.

[C]

I don't. You know, although I'd like to have been his subject. There's nothing.

[A]

No, I don't think I'm gonna give him. I'm gonna give him a one just for the.

[C]

No, okay.

[A]

For the sentiment, for the. He was in the right place.

[C]

Turning up. Literally a point for turning up.

[A]

Yeah. So it's a zero for you, one for me, one for subjectivity, longevity. Now, he's a bit of a funny one. Longevity, because unusually, he was actually declared king.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So you could say he has arraigned from 14 October 1066 to sort of early December 1066, about two months. But he's here as an early monarch and he does continue to contest the throne for eight years before he makes his submission to William.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But does he ever completely give up on his thing? Is he like, no, no, no. Even if all the Norman princes died and they came to me and all the bishops gave him the throne, I would say, no, I don't want it. Or is it always there in the back of his mind? Is that why he keeps coming back to England? Because he's like, I just feel like it could be my turn next?

[C]

Well, recent history has shown that nothing was permanent.

[A]

Yes. So I'm inclined to be generous to Edgar and say that his nearly reign starts with the death of Edward the confessor in 1066, when he should have become king and continues basically for his life.

[C]

Oh, right.

[A]

We could say 1074, he gives up. But I don't know, I feel like he. It could still have worked out differently.

[C]

Yeah. 1074 would be a natural bookend.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But that's his whole thing, isn't it? Being that survivor, being always there in the background. Ready?

[A]

Could it have all played Out. Could he have deceived them all?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And just outlived them? William IV style. His new tactic is like, I'll just let them die first.

[C]

You do all that immediate fighting and everything. I'm working on the genes and just eating a lot of carrots.

[A]

So on that basis, we know he's still alive in 1125. We don't technically know when he dies. We don't technically know if he dies. We assume probably.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So if we say 1066 to 1125, that would be a nearly reign, and that's how long his reign potentially could have been. If he had become clear intensive, that's what the reign would have been. So that's 59 years and a score of 19 out of 20, which is the second best for the series.

[C]

Well done. Oh, I like it that it gets really, really big scoring in one place.

[A]

Dynasty, not the program. We have no record of Edgar marrying. Now, the Huntingdon Priory Chronicle in 1291 suggests, however, that he had a daughter, Margaret, who married Ralph Lovel of Castle Carey and then later Robert de Philandress, both of whom have estates in southern Scotland. Now, it's a plausible name, Margaret as a daughter. It's a plausible location, Southern Scotland, where he had support. But the identification isn't widely accepted and apparently the. The relevant text is missing some key words from it that later people have filled in the blanks and made assumptions about what it says.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

And I think one of the key phrases might be something along the lines of daughter of.

[C]

Right. So they literally filled in the blanks for what they thought made sense.

[A]

Yeah. So I'm not sure in this one that we can really give him any credit.

[C]

No, it's furious.

[A]

As such, that is a zero for Dynasty. No surviving legitimate children. It's the Sister Margaret that the Saxon line lived on. Arthur, Edgar. So overall, that gives Edgar a score of 31.5. Which is third for the series. No, fourth for the series so far.

[C]

Not bad. Not bad.

[A]

Well, he's been very up and down, hasn't he?

[C]

Yeah. Good score. 0. 1.

[A]

Best score.

[C]

0. Yeah. Yeah. It's very Edgar, isn't it?

[A]

But it's not all about the score. Does he have that certain something? The lasting legacy, the great achievement, the star quality that we call Rex Factor. What do we think for the forgotten man of 1066?

[C]

He is my personal Rex. Back to pin up.

[A]

You love Edgar.

[C]

Yeah, I think. I think definitely, yes.

[A]

When we did him in the. We did a special episode on him. So if you want more on Edgar. Then there's a special episode and special episodes extra. We go into more detail on all of this. You compared him to the. The ducks on the Usborne book that you have to look for and he's there on every page. Not the starring role. It's always sort of there in the background.

[C]

Edgar the duck. I'd forgotten about that.

[A]

Is that Edgar the Duck?

[C]

Gosh, haven't read that book in a while,

[A]

but yeah. So it's something weird about the way he just carries on being there and the fact he's still alive in 1125. He almost outlives the Norman era.

[C]

I really like him. Yeah. I think it's really Rex factory.

[A]

The survival Born in Hungary, acclaimed King the rebellions.

[C]

Well, he must have something about him to get William the Conqueror off his back. Twice thrice.

[A]

Apparently. He's funny. Let's hope so. And, you know, if he'd been just a few years older, probably the Norman Conquest never would have even happened. Because if he'd been there as an adult, he would have been too much for Harold to have really overthrown an

[C]

adult and Harold on his side.

[A]

William would have had no real claim. Because William gets papal approval for the invasion of England. He surely wouldn't have done if Edgar had been king in the first place.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So the whole Norman Conquest could have been avoided. And then he loses. But he goes on to have the heroic stuff. He gets his nephew back as King Rexy, Italy, Crusades. I guess the counter argument is, is it because he wasn't. Well, he wasn't fortunate enough. Maybe he wasn't charismatic enough. Maybe he wasn't capable enough to succeed. Actually. Maybe that's the reason he keeps on getting to have all these goes and he gets to live this interesting life, is maybe just because he's a bit of a. Maybe I was like, he's a bit of a. He's not. He's not all there. He's not that great. He's no threat. Just let him be, you know, make. Guys, guys. Edgar. Make a place for Edgar. Come on, Come on.

[C]

You know, here I am, Edgar Rex Factor winner. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Sit down.

[A]

So, you know, is it damning the fact that we have a long story for Edgar? Would it be better if he'd gone out in a blaze of glory in 1069 and being the last Saxon in the way that Harold was the last Viking?

[C]

Yeah. But we'd have been denied this great sort of this. This patchy history that has the makings of legend written all over it. I'M sure we talked about this in that episode, how there's so many possibilities for his life that that would make an excellent film. Oh, I think he's Rexy all over.

[A]

He's definitely not. And a great Nearly monarch in the sense of he was so like, in the way the. Howard Harder is so powerful.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And incredible thing. Wow. What would he have done? You don't think that for Edgar, but it is an amazing life story.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's amazing the fact that he was one that should have been king and that it would have changed everything if he had been king.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

1066 would have just been another year. No. Norman conquest might all have continued. Probably have had quite a few unfortunate schemes that would have all come to nothing. But you'd have kept on somehow surviving them.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, I think I agree as well. He's. He's an odd character, but it's an intriguing character.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's what the Nearly Monarchs is all about. This whole other life and story after 1066.

[C]

It's brilliant.

[A]

So well done, Edgar. Rex Factor winner. I. I think that might be our first ever. Three in a row.

[C]

Really. Yeah. Well done, them.

[A]

So Edward the Exile is Father Harald Hardrada. And now Edgar the Etheling. All Rex Factor winners.

[C]

Well done, chaps.

[A]

Correspondence Corner. So that was Edgar the Etheling. Head to our website rexfactorpodcast.com to get all our links and more information about the podcast and get in touch, let us know what you think. We'll do a write to reply episode going through your messages in relation to all of the Saxons and Nearly monarchs in a few weeks after a couple of interview episodes we've got coming up. So do send in any thoughts or questions that you have. If you just like to support the podcast and get more Rex Factor episodes, join the privy [e-mail] RexFactor you get this podcast ad free and over 450 bonus episodes and counting. And we have some new privy counselors to welcome to the Faye.

[C]

Toby Burton, Jen E. Ruth Hinds.

[A]

You made a bear.

[C]

Helen Hillman, Natasha Dunn, Jennifer Subler, Nathaniel Risinger, Rowan Jones, Chloe Sansom, Sarah Wakefield, Alyssa Hutton, Elk, Dave Voss and Micah. Thank you.

[A]

Thank you very much to all of you. Welcome to the Privy Council. That's all from us today. And that's it for our Saxon Viking miniseries in the Nearly Monarch. So we've done our first. First little foray.

[C]

Oh, well, well done, everyone. We've made it this far. We might as well carry on listening.

[A]

Why not? Why not we will be moving on to the Normans nearly monarchs yet Neck. So the first of those will be Edgar's best mate, Robert, Duke of Normandy.

[C]

Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The other half of that bromance.

[A]

Yes. Before we get started on that though, we'll have a couple of interview episodes lined up that will both expand on aspects of Edgar's life. First of which we'll be talking to Professor Tom Licence about Edward the Confessor and the succession who was really meant to be king in 1066. Is Edgar responsible for what happened? But you may have also seen him mentioned in the news recently about a theory that Harold Godwinson didn't charge up on land to meet Hardrada, but actually went by boat. So chance to talk to him about that as well.

[C]

Nice.

[A]

See you next time.

[C]

Cheerio.

[A]

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