Denise and her guest Rhonda Garver expose the lies that hold women back and reveal how God calls you strong, gifted, and essential.
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Denise Renner
This program is made possible by the.
Rhonda Garver
Giving of the God called partners of Renner Ministries.
Denise Renner
I am so glad that you are with me today. And I have something so special for you today. And that is my guest, Rhonda Garver. And she's going to talk about a topic that's going to touch your hearts about how God made women in oh in such an amazing way that we can bring our gifts and our callings and that we don't have to hide them. And I want you to welcome with me Rhonda Garver. Rhonda, thank you so much for being with me.
Rhonda Garver
Thank you for having me on the show. I'm so honored to be here.
Denise Renner
And Rhonda, I am so thankful for your study that you have put into in this subject and I know that it's going to bless all those that hear these programs.
Rhonda Garver
Amen. I just wanted to help women obey God and help women so.
Denise Renner
And if you need prayer, please let us know how we can pray for you. And if this program is touching your heart in any way, please let us know about that. I know that God is going to touch your heart in these programs. And I want to offer to you my book Unstoppable. Because when we're going into new territory, I would say, and changing our minds about something and it's all God's word and renewing our minds to the truth. Sometimes there's some things that you got to press through and you've got to be unstoppable, but you've got the unstoppable one on the inside of you. And if you don't have my book Unstoppable, I want you to get it. So I want you to stay with me and we're coming back and we're going to talk about this amazing subject of how God, God created us women to recognize the power and the gifts that are on the inside of us and that we don't have to hold them back.
Rhonda Garver
It's time for big miracles and changes in your life. Join Denise Renner and dive into the study of God's word, which has great power to strengthen faith, inspire change, heal physically and spiritually and most importantly, help you learn about the power of Christ Jesus living in you. It's time with Denise Renner.
Denise Renner
Rhonda, I'm so excited to talk about your book.
Rhonda Garver
I'm excited about it too. Woo hoo.
Denise Renner
Thank you. I know Rhonda because I've known you for how many years?
Rhonda Garver
Three or four? I think we met like 30 years ago. But Only briefly, just the last few years.
Denise Renner
I love your church.
Rhonda Garver
Thank you.
Denise Renner
You guys are so amazing there.
Announcer
Thank you.
Denise Renner
Rhonda, tell me what prompted you to write this book?
Rhonda Garver
Well, I was. My husband and I pastor a church. We've pastored together for 30 years. The church is 32 years old. But I was mentoring some young lady ministers and one of them came in my office one day just absolutely beside herself, weeping. And she is from a small town and she was confronted by some of the pastors in her town saying that she shouldn't be ministering, that God was displeased with her, and that she was disobeying God. And she was just devastated. And so she came in to talk to me and she said, I know with all my heart I'm called to the ministry, but does the Bible really say I can't obey him? And if so, then I'm disobeying him whichever way I go. And so I told her what I knew at that time, but I also knew I needed to know more. So really I just dove into the Bible because I knew I had to answer the question for myself once and for all. And my own call was so supernatural that I never doubted it for a minute. But I also was aware of what people say the Bible says about women. And so I just told the Lord, I said, holy Spirit, you who inspired this word, open to me the revelation that I need from God on this, on this issue. And then he directed me where to start studying. And as I was studying the Word, I was just absolutely astounded at what I found. Because I'm just going to tell you the truth. I am a stickler for the word of God. The Word of God is the final answer on everything. It doesn't matter what I think. It doesn't matter anything, anybody's opinion. What matters is what the word of God actually says. And if I had found that it says sit down and shut up, even though I had been ministering for 30 years, I would have sat down and shut up. I just figured I have to know the truth. And so I began to study and oh my goodness, Ms. Denise, the, the revelation that the Holy Spirit began to unfold to me. I was virtually born on the pew. I was a pastor's daughter when I was young. I've been in church all my life, 50 some odd years, and I never heard these things. Nobody ever teaches on them, at least not that much. And so I had never heard some of the things taught that are just right there in the. And so I began to dig in. And then from there, the revelation was so great. I'd be studying, and I'd jump up and run to my husband, and I'd say, did you know? And he said, rhonda, I didn't know. And just one thing like that after another. And I said, holy Spirit, this is too good for me to keep to myself. What am I going to do with this? And he said, you have a Bible institute. He said, develop a class and teach it. So that's what I did. And then a little while later, he's like, okay, now you have the outline from your classes. Now let's do a book. So it was really. It just was easy from there. But I was absolutely amazed at what I found.
Denise Renner
Well, Rhonda, you know, I've read your book three times, and I wrote your foreword, which I was thrilled to do.
Rhonda Garver
Thank you. Yes.
Denise Renner
When I started reading your book, I got so excited just at chapter one, chapter two, of what God showed you through his Word. Not you just coming up with ideas, but through his Word, what the Bible says about Adam and Eve and especially the word helpmate.
Rhonda Garver
Yes.
Denise Renner
So would you share about what you found out, what the Bible says about Adam and Eve? Of course. Everybody believes in Adam and Eve, and. But just go ahead and teach us.
Rhonda Garver
Well, the first, I started in Genesis 1. I wanted to see what was God's original purpose in creating us humans, both men and women, before Satan got in there and messed it all up. What was the original plan? So I went to Genesis 1 and I just started reading until I came to the portion of Scripture where humans were mentioned for the first time. And it says, God said, let us make man. In the King James, it says, let us make man in our image after our likeness, and let them have dominion. And then he gave them authority over the earth. Well, when I read that man, I'm like, well, is that word male? Man as in male, or is it mankind? So I went to my interlinear, I studied it. I studied it and I looked it up, and it's mankind which changes the whole scripture. Because in the King James version, which is the version so many people use, it puts women in a deficit from the very first time humans are mentioned in the Bible because it has influenced how women see themselves and what they were created to be.
Denise Renner
Rhonda, I know what you're saying, because I always thought, okay, God, you created man first and then the woman.
Rhonda Garver
Yeah.
Denise Renner
I didn't realize that she was inside of him and that when he was talking to Adam, he wasn't Just talking to Adam like you're saying he was talking to mankind.
Rhonda Garver
Yes. And that Genesis 1:26,28 clearly says them. It's plural.
Denise Renner
Yes.
Rhonda Garver
He created them in his likeness and in his image. It's both of us. The thing is, they weren't. God could have created us, male and female from the beginning. Male and a spouse, a mate. But he didn't. He started out with them in one body and called them mankind. He never referred to him as masculine until he separated them. But yet even with that, though, because a lot of people have twisted that to make. Try to make the Bible say something, that sin is okay, but that's not so at all, really. He, in looking at them together in that one body, he said, there's something about that that's not good. So he pulled the woman out of Adam, and the male part, he left Adam, and then they gave her a new name, Eve. But it wasn't until they were separated that they were referred to as masculine or femin. It was always just the human. It was honestly more a designation of species than a name. Adam, because that's the word. That's the Hebrew word for mankind. I didn't realize that. So, yeah, I mean, but he made us together in one body, gave them together, created them both together in the likeness and image of God. And then he gave them both authority because they were there together. And then he separated them later.
Denise Renner
And, Rhonda, when I first read your book.
Rhonda Garver
Yes.
Denise Renner
And I understood. And this is speaking about intimacy right here.
Rhonda Garver
Yes.
Denise Renner
But I understood that man and woman, they are one.
Rhonda Garver
Right.
Denise Renner
In the beginning, they are one.
Rhonda Garver
Yes. They're. Yes.
Denise Renner
And I understood that God took Eve out of Adam.
Rhonda Garver
Yes.
Denise Renner
And then in marriage, in the sexual relationship, that's the only way that God brings them together as one again.
Rhonda Garver
It's a beautiful picture of how it was in the garden and how he intended it to be with man and woman, that together we're one. Together, we're hand in hand, ruling and reigning over the forces of darkness and over the earth. Counterparts, the scripture says when you study it out, counterparts, one to another. In fact, one of the definitions. Definitions is mutually completing parts.
Denise Renner
Wow.
Rhonda Garver
I love that we mutually complete each other.
Denise Renner
Well. And it says in Genesis, Adam said, you are bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh.
Rhonda Garver
Yes. They were the same substance. They were of the same substance. So you can't say one is better than the other if they were created at the exact same time from the exact same thing, just the two were separated later.
Denise Renner
Yes.
Rhonda Garver
And I Know, some people say, well, it says rib. It says rib in the King James, but the actual Hebrew word is selah T S E L A, which can mean one rib, but it can also mean up to one half of the person. So he took. He took him and divided him into two, but he took the one that was originally created. So you can't even say Adam was created first and therefore he should be. You know, man was created first or he should be dominant because he wasn't created first. They were created at the same time. They were just later separated. And I love it, because the act of marriage coming together in marital sexual relations is a beautiful picture of the two as one.
Denise Renner
Yes. And that's why it's called holy matrimony.
Rhonda Garver
Yes. Yes, 100%.
Denise Renner
Then when I read it, I thought, well, that's why adultery is an abomination, because that is just the wrong picture of what Jesus created.
Rhonda Garver
Yes, it is.
Denise Renner
And so when husband and wife come together, they become one as they were in the beginning. That's so beautiful.
Rhonda Garver
One in a different way, but one nonetheless.
Denise Renner
And that's holy matrimony. That's so powerful.
Rhonda Garver
It's just a picture of what it was meant to be.
Denise Renner
I absolutely love that. And that woman is not less than man, that they were created equal. And I just want to say to you that are listening, that Rhonda's book and these programs are not about, I am woman, hear me roar. I'm going to take over the world. I'm going to take over my husband. I'm going to be the head of my home. That is not what we're talking about 100%. We're talking about recognizing the truth that's in God's word and saying yes to what God's word says.
Rhonda Garver
Yes.
Denise Renner
But in these programs, we want to give knowledge to you of what God's word says. Because, Rhonda, I can honestly tell you I did not know this.
Rhonda Garver
Wow.
Denise Renner
I did not know this. I just thought that God created man first, woman was second.
Rhonda Garver
As a helper.
Denise Renner
As a helper. Now, let's talk about that word where it says in Genesis that she was his helpmate. Talk about that word.
Rhonda Garver
Yeah. The word help there is the Hebrew word ezer, and it means that she adds a supply that he lacked. But I went back and I looked at every time that word was used in the Old Covenant in the Old Testament, just to see how else that word was used. It was used 21 times in the Old Testament, 2 times referring to Eve there in Genesis, 3 times it referred to nations that Israel called on for help when they were under siege. Now let's just stop right there. If you're under siege as a nation, you wouldn't call an inferior people to help you. You would call somebody that's at least as strong as you are, if not stronger than you are, who can add their supply on your behalf. In other words, if someone was breaking into my home, I wouldn't call my 2 year old to help me. I'd call my husband or the police or whoever was of equal strength or greater because they wouldn't on somebody who was weaker than they were if they couldn't rescue themselves. But I think the way we have used the word help or helper in our modern vocabulary has greatly misled people because when we say a helper, we think of maybe a less skilled assistant who hands tools to the more skilled person who's laboring 100%.
Denise Renner
When I got, when I married my husband, I recognize that I'm his helpmate, but I'm his helpmate to do, you know, I'm lesser. Of course, he's the one. And I'm supposed to get under him and help him. Well, I am supposed to.
Rhonda Garver
Yeah. There is truth in that.
Denise Renner
I am supposed to help him, but I'm not to see myself as less or put the gifts and callings that God has put in me and say that they're nothing. And now I'll just put those over to the side and I'll just help my husband, which I want to help my husband.
Announcer
Yes.
Rhonda Garver
And you should. Yep.
Denise Renner
But helping my husband is not just putting aside everything that God put inside of me and acting like it's not there.
Rhonda Garver
It's you adding your strength, your gifts, your abilities.
Denise Renner
That's right.
Rhonda Garver
On their behalf to help ensure their success. And your success.
Denise Renner
Right.
Rhonda Garver
It's a partnership, a team.
Denise Renner
Yes.
Rhonda Garver
And I don't think. It just makes me sad when married couples don't even realize they're on the same team. They fight against each other and they pull. Well, it's. I want it my way. Well, I want it my way. We're a team. I minister to my husband, he ministers to me. We bless each other. I use my strength to make him a success. He uses his strength to make me a success. That's what it means to be a helpmate. And the other 16 times that word helper is used in the Old Covenant, it refers to God himself as our helper. So there is absolutely no way you could say the helper is inferior to the one Being helped. When God calls himself that, you would never say God's inferior to mankind or even think that you'd be stupid if you did. No, it has no connotation of weakness or inferiority. God says, I am your helper. That means he's adding his strength behind us on our behalf. And really, the thing that really just stopped me in my tracks is when I thought about the fact that God. The first, very first thing that God called a woman is a name he calls Himself. I was blown away. I was absolutely blown away at that. He called. He called us what he calls himself. It's just that our modern usage of that word has. Has twisted our thinking of what it means to be a helper. God has put gifts and graces and abilities inside every one of us. And everybody has a supply of the Spirit for each other and for the body of Christ. And no one has a lesser gift or a gift that's not important. God, if he put. If when he called you, when he came to live on the inside of you, he activates those gifts that are in there, and he needs you to use them to benefit the body of Christ. You're not just some inferior, worthless helper that has no real purpose. No, God has purpose for every human being. Purpose and gifts and graces and abilities that the body of Christ in the world needs.
Denise Renner
And you know, Rhonda, in our society, in the spa world, it's like we've been trained even as women, our little girls, to believe that I am the lesser one. If you get married, I am the lesser one. He is the important one. But that is just not true. You are important together. And it makes sense that God would want us to bring. I'm speaking about a woman to bring her supply, to help him. You have to recognize what's in you. Bring it instead of diminishing it. And recognize it and bring it forth so that you can operate as a team. And it would be the enemy that would try to diminish who we are in our minds and our hearts as women so that we will hide in.
Rhonda Garver
The shadow and never bring forth our gifts.
Denise Renner
Never bring forth our gifts.
Rhonda Garver
It's so true. It's absolutely true.
Denise Renner
The truth. And I just know that what we've been taught, what I was taught as a child, as a teenager, as a young wife in the church, I was not taught the truth. That God made me to be that helper and to bring forth what he put inside of me, right?
Rhonda Garver
In all of its beauty, in all of its power, in all of its Glory with the glory of God all over it. You know, he brought Eve and stood her before Adam and they stood face to face. That's how God intended it to be. Not one standing and the other one, one standing behind each other, but, but face to face. And it brings to my mind a picture of men and women standing face to face, holding hands even above a globe or the earth, ruling and reigning together, hand in hand. Each using their gifts, their strength, their graces, their abilities to help the world.
Denise Renner
And again, Rhonda, I want to emphasize this is not, this is not about I am woman. Move over. It's so far from that. It's just recognizing the truth of God's word and stepping forward with the gifts and callings that you've been given by God. And just think of it, if God's given you something to give out to others, even to your own children, and you step back and say, well, I'm going, going to wait for my husband. I'm not going to give what God's given me. I'm just going to wait back here. I'm just going to hide what's here. Then you're not giving your supply.
Rhonda Garver
Yeah, I think that's displeasing to God, dishonoring of the gifts and the graces he's put in you because he puts stuff in you that the world needs. Yeah, your family needs.
Denise Renner
Rhonda, this is so good. And I just want you, I for sure want you to get this book and I want you to get the series, the five part video series and the study guide and of God's Heart for Women. I can't emphasize it enough that we women, we need the truth. Men need the truth also because I know that when you both believe a lie, then we're not living in the truth of God's word and we're living below what he called us to. And so I, I want you to stay with us because I'm coming right back and we're going to pray together and I'm going to pray for you and Rhonda is going to pray for you. That we would step aside from our old thinking, our unrenewed thinking and accept who we are as women and who God called us to be. Again, I want to say it's not about us taking over the world. It's about, is not about that. It's about recognizing the truth of God's word and realizing the power of God that's on the inside of you and what you have to give.
Announcer
For generations, women in the church have been taught that they are secondary to or weaker than men or that Eve's failure in the Garden of Eden disqualifies them from from being fully used by God. But this is not God's will. In How God Sees you, Denise Renner with guest Rhonda Garver, you will learn biblical truths about women that combat deception around subjects like the true meaning of Eve's title, helper, the role of women in ministry, the best way to follow your calling in the face of adversity, and more. This this compelling five part series is available in digital and physical formats starting at just $11. In addition to this teaching series, we are offering you the books God's Heart for Women by Rhonda Garver and Unstoppable by Denise Renner. These inspiring books will encourage you with the truth that God wants to use you and will equip you to boldly carry out his calling on your life. You can purchase these books for $20 each. Don't miss this special offer the series How God Sees you, Denise Renner with guest Rhonda Garver and the books God's Heart for Women by Rhonda Garver and Unstoppable by Denise Renner. Visit renner.org to order, call the number on your screen or scan the QR code now. Call or go online now.
Denise Renner
Hasn't this been wonderful? I told you you were going to love every minute of this. And Rhonda, thank you so much for.
Rhonda Garver
Being on this program, for having me. Honestly, I'm just so happy. I just want to help women and I'm so thankful for you helping me to do that.
Denise Renner
And Rhonda, I'm so glad you wrote this book God's Heart for Women this and as I told you on the program, when I read this book he was like setting me free on the inside to step out of the old thinking that I had been taught for so many years. Years. And you know what you think is who you are. The Bible says as a man thinks in his heart, so is he. So if you think you're less, then you will be less if you recognize what God says about you and that you've been made as a helper and to bring strength and help only with a full supply. Not hiding part of it in the background, but with a full supply to your husband, to your children, to your workplace. Ladies, we don't have anything to apologize about when it comes to how God created us. He wants us to recognize the power that we have. Rhonda, let's just pray, Father, right now in the name of Jesus. Thank you, Lord. I pray for every single person that's listening and that they would humble themselves right now to the word of God and say, lord, this is the truth. And I take your truth as my truth right now. And I want to move forward as that woman of God that you called me to be. And I pray in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. And if you need prayer, please don't hesitate to call us because we have a powerful prayer team waiting to receive your call and pray with you. Well, I'll see you next time.
Announcer
Hey, friends, my wife and I are coming to the United States to hold some wonderful meetings. On Friday, January 16th, we're coming to Brandon, Florida to the Happy Gospel Church to a Friends in Ministry with Robert's Lerdin meeting. Then on Sunday, January 18th, we're coming to Newark, Texas to Eagle Mountain International Church to be with pastors George and Terri Pearsons and the whole church. On January 25th, we're coming to Green Mountain Falls, Colorado to Legacy Church to be with Pastors Jeremy and Sarah Pearsons. On Friday, Saturday, Sunday, January 30th, 31st and February 1st, word coming to Mesa, Arizona, Davita Church to be with pastors Ben and Kara Diaz. On Sunday, February 8th, we're coming to Southfield, Michigan to be at Word of Faith with Bishop Keith and Pastor Deborah Butler. On Sunday, February 15th, we're coming to Tulsa, Oklahoma to be a millennial church with pastors Paul and Karen Brady. And on Saturday and Sunday, February 21st and 22nd, we're coming to Midland, North Carolina to encounter a church to be with Bishop Allen and Tara Didio. We're waiting to see you there.
Denise Renner
If you've never received Jesus as your Savior and Lord, now is the time for you to experience a new life. Jesus has to give you. Pray this prayer with me right now. Lord, I repent of my sin and receive you as my Savior and Lord, wash away my sin and make me completely new. I thank you that my sin is removed and Satan no longer has any right to lay claim on me. I faithfully promise that I will serve you as my Lord for the rest of my life. Amen.
Podcast: Rick Renner Podcast (Audio)
Host: Denise Renner (Rick Renner Ministries)
Guest: Rhonda Garver (Author, Pastor)
Release Date: January 11, 2026
This episode of "TIME with Denise Renner" features a deep and heartfelt conversation between Denise Renner and her guest, Rhonda Garver, centering on a crucial and often misunderstood topic: What is God’s true view of women? Drawing from Rhonda Garver’s experiences, pastoral insight, and her book "God’s Heart for Women," the episode unpacks biblical truths about women’s identity, worth, and calling. Emphasizing scriptural foundation and practical application, Denise and Rhonda dismantle misconceptions about women’s roles, highlight the equality present in the creation narrative, and encourage women to fully embrace and utilize their God-given gifts and callings.
[03:01-06:12]
“The Word of God is the final answer on everything. ... If I had found that it says sit down and shut up... I would have sat down and shut up.”
— Rhonda Garver [05:18]
[06:22-11:27]
"God could have created us, male and female from the beginning... But he started out with them in one body and called them mankind."
— Rhonda Garver [08:35]
[10:00-12:09]
“They were the same substance... You can't say one is better than the other if they were created at the exact same time from the exact same thing...”
— Rhonda Garver [11:12]
[13:43-18:39]
“If you’re under siege as a nation, you wouldn't call an inferior people to help you... The helper is not inferior to the one being helped. God calls Himself our helper.”
— Rhonda Garver [14:13–15:22]
[18:39-20:45]
“It would be the enemy that would try to diminish who we are in our minds and our hearts as women so that we will hide in the shadow and never bring forth our gifts.”
— Denise Renner [19:30]
[20:45-22:54]
“It’s not about us taking over the world... It’s about recognizing the truth of God’s word and realizing the power of God that’s on the inside of you and what you have to give.”
— Denise Renner [22:48]
[24:19-25:40]
“If you think you’re less, then you will be less. If you recognize what God says about you... you bring a full supply.”
— Denise Renner [24:50]
This episode powerfully reframes the conversation around women’s identity and calling in the church and family, rooting it in careful, scriptural exegesis and deep personal conviction. Denise Renner and Rhonda Garver offer liberating biblical teaching, call out centuries-old misconceptions, and invite every listener—especially women—to step out of the shadows, embrace their full, God-given supply, and partner with men in fulfilling the original mandate of dominion, unity, and mutual completion. The tone is encouraging, inspiring, and filled with hope and spiritual authority.
Recommended Resources:
If you have ever wondered about God’s original intention for women, their gifts, and their position—not as secondary but as equal and essential—this conversation is revelatory and deeply encouraging.