A Ton of Inventors Died Due To Their Own Inventions, Chapter Two: Li Si and the Five Pains

Summary

Ridiculous History: A Ton of Inventors Died Due To Their Own Inventions, Chapter Two: Li Si and the Five Pains

Release Date: January 22, 2025

Hosts: Ben Bollen and Noel Brown
Produced by: Max Williams
Podcast Network: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction: Surviving the Snowpocalypse

The episode opens with Ben Bollen and Noel Brown engaging in their signature banter, humorously recounting their experiences during a massive snowstorm in Atlanta. They acknowledge their super producer, Max Williams, and tease the listeners about the chaos of winter weather management. Amidst light-hearted exchanges and humorous interruptions, the hosts set a casual and engaging tone for the episode.

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Continuing the Series: Inventors and Their Fatal Creations

The core of the episode delves into the intriguing and often tragic tales of inventors who met their demise due to their own creations. Building on a previous episode that discussed multiple inventors in aviation, Ben and Noel expand the narrative to include other notable figures whose innovations had unintended lethal consequences.

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Thomas Midgley Jr.: The Accidental Villain

Timestamp: [06:30]

The hosts introduce Thomas Midgley Jr., a brilliant chemist often labeled as "one of the world's worst inventors." Despite his genius, Midgley's inventions have had long-lasting detrimental effects on humanity and the environment.

• Ben Bollen Highlights:

  • Midgley is credited with adding tetraethyl lead to gasoline to prevent engine knocking, a decision that has had severe public health repercussions. “He put lead in gasoline. It's because of this guy that we still to this day, weirdly, sort of like ashtrays on airplanes,” Ben remarks at [11:01].
  • His work with chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) also led to significant environmental issues, including ozone layer depletion.

• Noel Brown Adds:

  • Midgley's inventions have “haunted the global population today,” affecting animals, humans, and plants alike ([07:31]).
  • He was not an evil person by design but failed to foresee the catastrophic consequences of his innovations.

Notable Quote:

“He could turn a couplet. He could pet a couplet.” – Noel Brown ([15:10])

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The Tragic End of Thomas Midgley Jr.

Timestamp: [16:00]

Midgley's demise is a darkly ironic tale. After contracting polio, he invents a pulley system to aid his mobility. Tragically, on November 2, 1944, Midgley becomes entangled in his very own invention and is strangled to death.

• Ben Bollen Observes:

  • The episode draws a parallel to slapstick cartoons, noting the absurdity and horror of the situation:

    “It was not lead poisoning from his gasoline experiments that killed Tommy. Tommy is 51 years old, and he contracts polio and loses the use of his legs.” ([15:02])

• Noel Brown Reflects:

  • The hosts humorously consider posthumously knighting Midgley for his “knighthood of ridiculous history” ([17:58]).

The tragic end underscores the theme of the episode: the fine line between genius and folly, and how unintended consequences can have profound impacts.

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Marie Curie: Radiating Genius and Tragedy

Timestamp: [22:07]

Transitioning from Midgley, the hosts explore the life and legacy of Marie Curie, another scientist whose groundbreaking work had fatal repercussions.

• Ben Bollen Shares:

  • Marie Curie, born Maria Skłodowska, was a pioneering chemist who, alongside her husband Pierre, discovered radium and polonium. These elements were pivotal in advancing medical science but also posed significant health hazards due to their radioactivity.
  • Curie's relentless dedication led her to carry test tubes of radium on her lab coat, unaware of the long-term health effects.

• Noel Brown Details:

  • Curie's perseverance in the face of misogyny and personal tragedy is highlighted. After her husband’s untimely death in 1906, she continued his work and became the first female professor at the Sorbonne ([25:14]).
  • Her exposure to radioactive materials ultimately led to her death in 1934 from aplastic anemia, caused by her extensive contact with radium ([27:06]).

Notable Quote:

“She is wholly committed to her research and is often known to carry around test tubes of radium on her person, tucked in her lab coat.” – Ben Bollen ([26:20])

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Li Si and the Five Pains: Ancient Innovations and Ironies

Timestamp: [31:48]

In alignment with the episode's title, the hosts begin exploring the story of Li Si, a pivotal figure in ancient Chinese history, and his infamous "Five Pains." Although this segment is not fully explored within the transcript, the discussion hints at Li Si's role in unifying China and his ruthless methods of maintaining power through extreme torture techniques.

• Noel Brown Introduces:

  • Li Si, born around 280 BCE, rose from humble beginnings to become a significant advisor in the imperial court. His political maneuvers, including bribery, assassination, and information control, were instrumental in consolidating the Qin Dynasty ([34:06]).

• Ben Bollen Continues:

  • The "Five Pains" were brutal methods of punishment designed to quell dissent and enforce loyalty, reflecting Li Si's authoritarian strategies ([35:26]).

Notable Quote:

“The five pains is used multiple times to quell dangerous religious ideologies et cetera. Any outside forces, find their leader, subject them to the Five Pains, and it is quite successful in securing the, or I should say cementing the power of the empire.” – Ben Bollen ([37:14])

The segment on Li Si sets the stage for a deeper exploration of historical figures whose innovations or policies led to their downfall, continuing the episode's overarching theme.

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Conclusion: Reflections on Inventors and Their Legacies

As the episode wraps up, Ben and Noel reflect on the dual nature of invention—the capacity to propel humanity forward while also harboring the potential for devastating consequences.

• Ben Bollen Concludes:

  • He emphasizes that while many inventors contribute positively, a significant number, like Midgley and Curie, inadvertently cause harm through their creations.

• Noel Brown Adds:

  • The hosts acknowledge the complexity of assigning blame, recognizing that inventors like Midgley and Curie were products of their times and lacked the foresight into the full impact of their work.

Notable Quote:

“His inventions, his big breakthroughs, greatly contributed to the environmental problems everyone hearing this show faces today.” – Ben Bollen ([18:03])

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Final Thoughts and Acknowledgments

The episode concludes with the hosts thanking their producer, research team, and listeners. They encourage the audience to follow them on social media and hint at future episodes that will continue to explore the fascinating intersections of innovation and tragedy.

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Key Takeaways:

• Unintended Consequences: Brilliant inventions can have unforeseen and sometimes catastrophic effects on society and the environment.

• Historical Context: Understanding the time and circumstances in which inventors operated provides insight into their decisions and the outcomes of their work.

• Moral Complexity: Assigning blame is nuanced; inventors often act with good intentions but lack comprehensive understanding of the long-term impacts of their creations.

Suggested For Further Listening:

Listeners intrigued by the stories of Midgley, Curie, and Li Si will find this episode a compelling addition to the "Ridiculous History" series, combining historical analysis with engaging storytelling and sharp humor.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• [15:10]
  Noel Brown: “He could turn a couplet. He could pet a couplet.”

• [22:07]
  Ben Bollen: “He is wholly committed to her research and is often known to carry around test tubes of radium on her person, tucked in her lab coat.”

• [35:26]
  Ben Bollen: “The five pains is used multiple times to quell dangerous religious ideologies et cetera. Any outside forces, find their leader, subject them to the Five Pains, and it is quite successful in securing the, or I should say cementing the power of the empire.”

• [18:03]
  Ben Bollen: “His inventions, his big breakthroughs, greatly contributed to the environmental problems everyone hearing this show faces today.”

---

For more intriguing and bizarre historical tales, subscribe to "Ridiculous History" on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Ben Bollen]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you so much as always for joining us. Let's hear it for the man, the myth, our one and only super producer, Mr. Max Williams.

[Noel Brown]

It's me. No, I don't actually have the crazy voice any longer. I am well again. Oh, no. Oh, yay. I'm sorry. I don't know why I said oh, no. I'm glad that you're feeling better, Max, that you're on the other side of the weather. Is that a thing? Yeah, yeah, other side of the massive Atlanta snowstorm. Oh, geez. Yeah. Snow Apocalypse 2.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, not quite a snow apocalypse because thankfully our fair metropolis has dealt with it better than they did in the past. Now, you may be asking yourself, if you're listening for the first time, who was that person with a handsome voice who chimed in to talk with Max? Why, it's none other than Mr. Noel Brown.

[Noel Brown]

It was me all along.

[Ben Bollen]

Very Kaiser Soze. They also call me Ben Bollen. Pretty often a thing I can't shake. We are back from a holiday break, and as our super producer Max alluded to, we all survived. I would say we thrived during the recent snow in Atlanta.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, absolutely. And to your point, Ben, our city managers or powers that be or whatever, they seem to have learned from the aforementioned previous snowpocalypse, which was pretty awful and I think they may be overdid at this time, letting us know that the inclement weather was coming and getting their six salt trucks out on the streets. Because I drove around the next day and it was totally fine, so it was perfectly pleasant.

[Ben Bollen]

And what were you saying, bro? You were telling me earlier that you felt you had received maybe too many emergency notifications.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, there were three, I think I was at ikea, actually. It's one of those things where you hear everybody's phone go off at the same time. It was a very wordy warning about winter weather. I did not intend that to be as alliterative as it was, but I'm here for it.

[Ben Bollen]

That's pretty good.

[Noel Brown]

But better to over warn than underworn. So, yeah, I think it was overall a weather success. We weathered the weather successfully. And I would say, like, you know, one thing that is beneficial from like, you know, the COVID days is working remote for many of us, especially here at our company is quite easy. I mean, it's like I remember Snowpocalypse is back when I was still a bartender and they found out I lived near a MARTA station which MARTA was running. And I worked every day for Snowpocalypse. It was fun. I bet.

[Ben Bollen]

Well, I heard the italics.

[Noel Brown]

Indeed. Well, good on you, Max. You were what they call an essential worker. Said that in italics a little bit too.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, yeah. Yes, I hope we keep not that.

[Noel Brown]

You'Re not essential, Max. I just mean the idea of essential workers was a little bit of a middle finger kind of thing because you know, they're essential when they're needed, but they don't really get treated well other times of the year.

[Ben Bollen]

Shout out to the firefighters in Los Angeles area. So we are kicking off part of our new year with a continuing series you'll recall previously on Ridiculous History, our exploration of inventors who one way or another died at the hand of their own creations or discoveries and full disclosure, please be my accountabilibuddies here, guys. I 100% thought it would be a one off episode and then just the fact that so many inventors died trying to fly made part one a two part series.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, a real Icarus kind of situation, huh?

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

[Jon Stewart]

If you love your phone but not your carrier, just switch to T Mobile. You can keep your phone, keep your number and we'll help pay it off up to $800 per line. You can also use our savings calculator to compare our plans and streaming benefits.

[Noel Brown]

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[Jon Stewart]

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[Noel Brown]

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[Ben Bollen]

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[Ben Bollen]

Device intelligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Join late night legend Jon Stewart and the best news team for today's biggest headlines, exclusive extended interviews and more. Now this is a second term we can all get behind. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Tremarke]

Here at Life Kit, NPR's Self Help podcast, we love the idea of helping you make meaningful lifestyle changes. Our policy is to never be too punishing on yourself or too grand in your goals, which is why we've got shows on how to make little nudges to your behavior and create habits that stick. Listen to the Life kit podcast on iHeartradio.

[Holly Fry]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Max Williams]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Holly Fry]

Each season we explore a new theme. From poisoners to art thieves, we uncover.

[Max Williams]

The secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Holly Fry]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Max Williams]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Bollen]

In today's exploration, we're going to start with some inventors you may not have heard of. At least one we can ease into it. I thought we'd all enjoy this with a man who is often called the worst inventor ever. And not without good reason, but also.

[Noel Brown]

Not because he was some kind of slouch. I mean, the guy was brilliant. We're talking about Thomas Midgley Jr. Born May 18th of 1889 in a lovely little burg called Beaver Falls in Pennsylvania. Really idyllic little community, I imagine. I've never been there, but it just. You can't have a place called Beaver Falls and it not be a lovely little family kind of town. But this guy had some big ideas. And he's known universally pretty much as one of the world's worst inventors. Not because he was bad at inventing, he was quite good, as we mentioned. Problem is, some of the stuff this guy decided to focus his immense talents on have created long lasting health ramifications for just about everyone.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, the thing is, Tommy is really talented. His talents are focused on creating inventions that are insidious. He specializes in poisonous chemicals. It is not hyperbole to say his inventions haunt the global population today. Animals, humans, plants, we're all involved. We have all been infected by this inventor. We still don't know the full consequences of all the crazy family show, of all the crazy poop he made.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, and it's not to say that he set out to destroy the world. Quite the opposite. He set out to improve the world. It's just as often as the case when inventions become so incredibly valuable so quickly. Often those ramifications or the future fallout of said inventions are the last thing on people's minds. So what are we talking about here?

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, yeah, great point, Noel. To understand just how wild this guy's story is, we have to learn a little bit about automobiles. Specifically internal combustion engines. Let's don our old car stuff caps for a moment.

[Noel Brown]

Harnessed explosions.

[Ben Bollen]

Yes, exactly. Max, give us some Crazy propaganda music. Perfect. Behold the automobile. Each day, billions of these contraptions harness explosions from the spirit special juice made of long dead plant and animal matter powering the modern world. Look. Cut the music. Perfect. Look, if we try to explain the process of internal combustion engines to any alien visiting Earth, the idea that we take small amounts of high energy density fuel, we push it into a very small space and ignite it and make an expanding gas to explode. They would think we were stupid.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, I mean when you describe it like this, it sounds like something that you'd see in like a Wile E. Coyote cartoon, like made by Acme, like some sort of like wheel with a series of rockets mounted on the outside of it somehow. It's still what we use today. There have certainly been improvements in the efficiency of combustion engines, et cetera, but it's still using that same dead plant and animal juice and it's still harnessing those same mini explosions.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, and it's still a work in progress. Humanity is figuring out the kinks of this. And I mean kinks as in malfunctions. Back in the day, these engines could be incredibly loud and they would experience something called engine.

[Noel Brown]

Hello? Who's there? Hello?

[Ben Bollen]

Knock. Yeah, these engines could make sounds that for the driver would appear to be knocks or taps. And our guy, Tommy Midgley Jr. He took that personally, as the memes say. He looked into it, he figured out a compound tetraethyl lead he discovered. Yeah. Could be added to gas and it would make the engine run a bit more smoothly. It would prevent that engine knocking in automobiles. That's right. He's the guy who put lead in gasoline.

[Noel Brown]

It's because of this guy that we still to this day, weirdly, sort of like ashtrays on airplanes. See unleaded gas on the gas pump, like just in case we need to be reminded of this very dark time in the history of the automobile. Cause, yeah, it's not nothing special about it, it's just lead. Same stuff that poisoned the Romans and apparently, according to a recent study, was responsible for lowering their IQ over the course of generations. This stuff is. No, it is straight up poison and has been phased out, I would say nearly entirely from American society.

[Ben Bollen]

Oh, 100%. It also led to. Oh gosh, keep it. It led to perhaps certain aspects of violence in the United States and other previous civilizations. Our buddy Tommy is not done yet, Noel. He also figures out that a certain chlorofluorocarbon makes an Excellent refrigerant.

[Noel Brown]

CFCs, I believe. Yes. Learned about those in Ecology class back in middle school. And at first people loved it. Thomas received lots of medals and accolades for his innovation, his work as a chemical company executive and researcher. First for the chemical anti knock agent. Also, the extraction of bromine from seawater could go wrong. Sure. And also the use of fluorine to produce refrigerating compounds. All of these were very popular at the time. But much like asbestos, turns out they were not good for people's long term health. And yet at the time, I don't know, Ben, do you think it was because the technology didn't exist to look into these types of health ramifications or did people just not care?

[Ben Bollen]

I mean, I would say 90% the former, 10% the latter. The answer is so easy, right, for people living at the time that the question becomes why would we look too deeply into this and we gotta.

[Noel Brown]

Asbestos was known as a miracle material, you know, I mean, that was literally what it was referred to as in marketing. And I'm sure these innovations from Midgley were treated much the same way. Like this guy is single handedly propelled us forward into the future.

[Ben Bollen]

Absolutely. And to be fair, we can look back with the benefit of retrospect and say, yes, his inventions and discoveries were bad. It's important to realize at the same time, Tommy himself is not an on purpose evil dude. In fact, Noel, he was kind of a Renaissance man. To your earlier point, he simply did not grok the full effects of the things he created. And he never imagined the scale at which his inventions would be deployed. Which means he could not logically understand the consequences involved. But what do we mean when we say he's a Renaissance man despite being an accidental Sith Lord? Folks, Midgley is one of the most creative chemists who ever lived.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, that's true. Not only that, he was a poet and I think he knew it. I'm never going to not make that joke. I'm just not gonna do it. Whoa, that kind of rhyme. Anyway, here's an example of some of his work which lends us a little bit of insight into the dark future that he had a hand in creating. A little foreshadowing here, Ben, you found this Jim Dandy piece of work. Why don't you bless us with a reading?

[Ben Bollen]

Ooh, let's round robin it. There's a bit of a excerpt here. When I feel old age approaching and tisn't any sport and my nerves are growing rotten and my breath is growing.

[Noel Brown]

Short and my eyes are growing dimmer and my hair is turning white and I lack the old ambitions When I.

[Ben Bollen]

Wander out at night Too many men my senior may remain When I am gone I have no regrets to offer Just because I'm passing on.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, he did a little Scottish brogue there, Ben. I like that. Wrapping it up. Let's bring it home. Let this epitaph be graven on my tomb. In simple style, this one. Did a lot of living in a mighty little while, huh? Thought really highly of himself there, too, huh?

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah. So, best poet. Nah.

[Noel Brown]

But he knew how to rhyme. He could turn a. He could. You know, he could. He could bust out a rhyme.

[Ben Bollen]

He could pet a couplet.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, that's what poetry is supposed to be, right? It's got a rhyme. That's not poetry if it doesn't run.

[Ben Bollen]

Oh, my gosh.

[Noel Brown]

Come at me. Come at me.

[Ben Bollen]

So it was not lead poisoning from his gasoline experiments that killed Tommy. Tommy is 51 years old, and he contracts polio and loses the use of his legs. And I want to shout out our pal Dylan, Tennessee Pal Fagan from Stuff they don't want you to know, was talking with me about this. This guy gets polio. Polio is disastrous in his era. So he puts his brilliant, Tony starkish mind to the problem, and he invents a pulley system over his bed. The idea being he can lift himself into a sitting position, and then from there, he can get into whatever apparatus he's using for mobility. Unlike his other inventions that wrecked the human world, this one had immediate, observable consequences. And so it came to pass, on November 2, 1944, Thomas Midgley Jr got caught up in the ropes of the system he invented and was strangled to death.

[Noel Brown]

I can't put my finger on it, but I've seen this exact scenario, like, parodied in film and maybe tv. Like somebody, you know, having some sort of contraption that was designed to help lift somebody. You know what it was in Twin Peaks? I recently saw it in an episode of the first season, maybe the second season of Twin Peaks, where a character built, a doctor character, I can't remember the names, built something like this, and it had hilarious and disastrous consequences. Just did not go well. It's rife for physical comedy, but, no, it did, in fact, end the life of Thomas Midgley Jr. He seems like he should be a sir. Thomas Midgley Jr. Yeah.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah.

[Noel Brown]

Well, we can knight him posthumously.

[Ben Bollen]

Can we? Can you do that?

[Noel Brown]

The knighthood of ridiculous history. Bad inventors.

[Ben Bollen]

All right, there we go. Yes. And before we feel too bad, the Guy is only 55 years old. His early death is definitely a tragedy for his loved ones. Consider this again. His inventions, his big breakthroughs, greatly contributed to the environmental problems everyone hearing this show faces today. So much so that we still do not know the full consequences of this. He poisoned three generations of children. He increased the risk of skin cancer and other skin problems related to the exposure of ultraviolet light. He is a big player in the world of global warming, even though he did not know that's what he was doing.

[Noel Brown]

Well, and you mentioned, Ben, that he was also like a chemical company executive. There's part of me that feels like we maybe shouldn't always condemn the inventor of the thing, but maybe more so the industry that took it and ran with it. And we certainly know that there are inventors that often wish or have mixed feelings about their inventions, like Oppenheimer. You know, he certainly did not feel great about the way the atomic bomb was used and had a very complicated relationship with that legacy. So, I don't know, Ben, was Thomas Midgley Jr. Also out there, like, pushing this stuff hard in his role as an executive?

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, it's a great question. Being an expert, even world class, in one discipline of science, say chemistry, does not automatically make one a world expert in other fields of science, such as ecology.

[Noel Brown]

It's a very American story, kind of. I don't know, it just seems. Yeah.

[Maria Tremarke]

Here at Life Kit, NPR's Self Help podcast, we love the idea of helping you make meaningful lifestyle changes. Our policy is to never be too punishing on yourself or two grand in your goals, which is why we've got shows on how to make little nudges to your behavior and create habits that stick. Listen to the Life Kit podcast on iHeartRadio.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. The Daily show podcast has everything you need to stay on top of today's news and pop culture. You get hilarious satirical takes on entertainment, politics, sports, and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else, like extended interviews and a roundup of the weekly headlines. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Max Williams]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Holly Fry]

Each season we explore a new theme. Everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them.

[Max Williams]

We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact.

[Holly Fry]

We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective.

[Max Williams]

And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Bollen]

And with this, we're gonna go to a story that you have doubtlessly heard, perhaps not in full of another inventor who died by their own hand. Noel, could you do the honors?

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. We're talking about Marie Curie. And if anybody saw that just. Okay. Beetlejuice sequel that came out late last year, the character of Lydia Dietz's daughter dresses up as Marie Curie for Halloween. Or sort of as the ghost of Marie Curie.

[Ben Bollen]

I haven't seen that one.

[Noel Brown]

It was okay. It was fine. It's a cute movie. I enjoyed it more than a lot of what Tim Burton's been putting out there lately, but it wasn't like, the best. But I did think that this costume was kind of cute and very on brand for the demure, gothy character played by Jenna Ortega. I think she did a fine job. So Marie Curie, born Maria Solemia Skolodowska on November 7, 1867, was a Polish chemist, and she and her husband essentially altered the course of humanity when they discovered not just radium, but also polonium. These are two very useful and deadly elements.

[Ben Bollen]

100%. Think about this. How crazy is it, how significant is it, how monumental is it to discover an entirely new element, something that goes up on the periodic table, let alone two? Right? Right. Not once, but twice they did this. And Marie Curie is the person who coined the term radioactive. Speaking of a twofer, this scientist won the Nobel Prize not once, but twice. First Nobel Prize, 1903, when he and her husband Pierre get the Nobel Prize in physics. And then again in 1911 when she wins the Nobel Prize in chemistry. Everybody is over the moon about this, but they're only supporting her after she becomes sort of a scientific winner. Her original life was anything but cozy. Let's go to our [e-mail] who have a fantastic summation of the misogyny Curie faced pretty much until she won that first Nobel Prize, right?

[Noel Brown]

Growing up in a time when new governments had banned women from attending higher education facilities, Marie Curie was determined to receive an education. Even though she was at the top of her class in Warsaw, she was unable to continue her education at the university. She sought education through a secret underground series of classes designed for continuing education for Polish women, known as the Floating University. Working out a deal with her sister where one would work and send the other to college and then reverse roles, she was eventually able to attend the Sorbonne in Paris, France. Raban University, very, very famous institution of learning.

[Ben Bollen]

Dude, she prestiged it. No spoilers for prestige. I love this quote you're sharing because she's a woman in a male dominated field where dudes hate women. And you may be asking yourself astute, ridiculous historians, why did Marie Curie and her husband win that first Nobel Prize? Why did she win it herself in 1911? It's because between that time, her husband died in a street accident. It was 1906. And so now, on top of being discriminated against for her biological identity, she's also a single mom. She's left to raise their two children alone, without a dad, and just to walk down the street for a second here. I recently read something, Noel, that really stuck with me. I don't think we should call single parents single parents because they're doing twice the work, right? So I think we should call them double parents.

[Noel Brown]

I love it, Ben. Count me in. So, of course, her groundbreaking discoveries ultimately led to her early passing. Similar to Thomas Midgley, Curie wasn't fully aware of what she was playing with, the consequences involved in these discoveries. After her husband died, Curie took over his teaching position and became the first female professor at Sorbonne, where she was wholly committed to her research and is often known to carry around test tubes of radium on her person, tucked in her lab coat. Her work with radium ultimately led to the discovery of the first portable X ray machine. But she did not know the deadly ramifications of radioactive exposure.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah. In 1934, this groundbreaking scientist dies from a condition we call aplastic anemia. It was. Look, I'm supposed to say almost certainly, but it was definitely caused by the high radium exposure that she experienced throughout her research. If you go to the Mayo Clinic, you'll learn that aplastic anemia is a rare bone marrow disease. It's essentially your bone marrow which is supposed to produce all your red blood cells. It stops. It falls short. When you have this condition, and without having these red blood cells, you'll get fatigue, shortness of breath, weird bruising, other nasty symptoms. This is a true story, Noel. When Marie Curie dies as a result of her own discoveries, her body is so riddled with radioactive atoms that she is buried in a casket made of lead. And the public doesn't. Yeah, right. And the public doesn't know about this until way, way after the fact.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, that's right. Because the French government wanted to move the Curie's bodies to be honored at the Pantheon to celebrate them as French history icons. However, when they approached the grave, they detected traces of radium and polonium, which were the elements that Curie studied. Workers initially came across a wooden coffin, but when they opened them, they saw an intact lead coffin inside.

[Ben Bollen]

And this was 1995 when this was discovered. Yeah. The boffins look into the trace amounts of radium and polonium, and they say, look, this is not enough to harm anyone else. So, thankfully, the authorities decide to move this posthumous married couple to wooden caskets for burial at the aforementioned Pantheon. The Curies change the world. There's no two ifs, ands, or buts about it. But. Oh, there's another but. The third but we've got. I think we have time for one more story, which is super metal.

[Jon Stewart]

Here.

[Maria Tremarke]

At Life Kit, NPR's self help podcast. We love the idea of helping you make meaningful lifestyle changes. Our policy is to never be too punishing on yourself or too grand in your goals, which is why we've got shows on how to make little nudges to your behavior and create habits that stick. Listen to the Life Kit podcast on iHeartRadio.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back at the Daily show, and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports, and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondents and contributors, and with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Max Williams]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together, we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Holly Fry]

Each season, we explore a new theme. Everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them.

[Max Williams]

We Uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact.

[Holly Fry]

We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective.

[Max Williams]

And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Bollen]

Like metal in. In terms of vibe.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, yeah, the horns. Yeah, it's like the. The name. This guy's name should be written in illegible font. Let put it that way. Li Si and the five pains Trigger warning for anyone that doesn't like nastiness. This is about torture, okay? So if you don't want to go on this ride, feel free to skip ahead. Well, actually just feel free to maybe get off right now. In 221 BCE, China unified, putting an end to a chaotic period of warring states and various fiefdoms, combining all of them under the control of the Xin Dynasty.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, and one of the pivotal figures in this expansion in the rule of this dynasty is a guy named Li Xi. He's born to commoners, everyday people, around 280 BCE.

[Noel Brown]

Now, on paper, I love everyday people.

[Ben Bollen]

I am everyday people. You are too. So on paper, this guy's absolute success story. He starts off as a simple clerk in local government, and against all odds, he ascends through the strict paranoid hierarchy of China at the time to become one of the most influential men in the imperial court. He had the Riz. That's the best thing we could say. He's a smooth talker.

[Noel Brown]

He was early. He was the proto rizzler, in fact, real cool customer. Li Xi gained a lot of influence over the first Emperor Zhang, and he essentially was kind of whispering in this dude's ear, Machiavelli style. He convinced the king to do all sorts of, I guess, political maneuvers. He was responsible for all kinds of innovations and political inventions, such as bribing enemies who could be bought and assassinating the ones that couldn't. Also was a big fan of tricking neighboring states into, you know, getting under the thumb of the emperor through just outright subterfuge and lies. He was also. Also a fan of controlling information.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, yeah, he was a Huge advocate of collecting and burning all books that were counter to the narrative of Zhang. He said, the only books we got to keep are the books about medicine, divination and agriculture, essentially for their time. The stem books. Right.

[Noel Brown]

It's interesting to put it that way, but you're right.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, yeah. The king, by the way, was super down with all of this. It's ethically disgusting, but it does kind of make sense. Given the fragility of the New Empire. They wanted to erase competing versions of history. And Li, she was super good at doing that.

[Noel Brown]

And you know how we see this all the time, the kind of closer you are to a king figure like this, the harder you fall when you fall out of favor with said powerful individual. One thing that Li Shi. A little foreshadowing there. One thing that Li Shi is most remembered by in Chinese history, in addition to his political savvy, was his inventiveness when it comes to methods of torture and execution. Enter the Five Pains.

[Ben Bollen]

The Five Pains.

[Noel Brown]

It's pretty gnarly. It looks like we're going to describe what will, in your mind, resemble a Cannibal Corpse album cover.

[Ben Bollen]

It is so gross. All right, so around this time, as he's rising up in the ranks and doing dangerous whispers, it's sometime between 2019 and 2013 BCE when he becomes Chancellor. He is one of the two highest ranking non royal family members in the land. And he pitches the following to the dynasty. He says, look, if we got a bad criminal, we set an example. So the first thing is we cut off their nose.

[Noel Brown]

Check. Okay, one.

[Ben Bollen]

And then we cut off. And then we cut off a hand.

[Noel Brown]

Just one. Okay, two. Two pains.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah. And then we cut off a foot.

[Noel Brown]

Same foot as the hand. Or opposite side Or a dealer's choice.

[Ben Bollen]

Interesting. Right, so what makes it worse?

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, you're not going to walk away from this. Spoiler alert.

[Ben Bollen]

So that's three pains there.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, we got three pains down.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah. The next one is we castrate them.

[Noel Brown]

Okay, cool.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah.

[Noel Brown]

So like, like the dilophosaurus in the Jurassic park novel.

[Ben Bollen]

What an interesting reference for that.

[Noel Brown]

Sorry. I always will remember that they didn't do it in the movie, but in the book, Nedry gets his guts handed to him. Yeah, that scene always stuck with me. So that's four pains down.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah. The fifth and final pain is death. Not any reasonable form of death. Literally cutting the body in half.

[Noel Brown]

A little baroque adding insult to injury, if you will.

[Ben Bollen]

An example. Right. And so the five pains is used multiple times to quell dangerous religious IDEOLOGIES et cetera. Any outside forces, find their leader, subject them to the Five Pains, and it is quite successful in securing the, or I should say cementing the power of the empire.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. It's weird though. Is it really loyalty if you are just operating with fear?

[Ben Bollen]

Right? Is it really love if you're operating out of fear?

[Noel Brown]

And Ben, I just wanted to bring up too, I mean, in your studies of geopolitics and stuff, and I know that you are very up on Chinese politics, it's very interesting to me that this kind of tamping down of dissent and this type of tamping down and control of information, it's not really that different. I mean, they don't do the Five Pains anymore, but it's still information is kept under lock and key over there.

[Ben Bollen]

Yes, sir. They're a little touchy. I think it's okay to say that the PRC is a big fan of a single unified narrative. And this is what we're getting to. Everything is swell from Li Xi's perspective. Until about 208 BCE this guy is convicted of treason. His crimes are to be held to account, says the governing power. He is sentenced to death. Ed Noel, Max, fellow ridiculous historians, dare we guess the manner of his execution?

[Noel Brown]

Isn't it ironic? Yeah. I do think. I really do think you got it. His own invention, the five Pains. Woof.

[Ben Bollen]

Ouch. Because he was alive long enough to think about it, they cut off his nose and he's probably thinking, damn, this is familiar.

[Noel Brown]

Not just despite his face, despite his entire existence, his entire body.

[Ben Bollen]

Get a hand and he's like, maybe this is just some wackadoo coincidence. Then they get a foot, then they go for his Australia. Dirty way to die.

[Noel Brown]

Not good, not fun. I think we navigated that grisly topic just fine, Ben. I think it was too gratuitous. But yeah, not cool. Weird thing to be known for. And also a really weird and horrific way to die that you yourself are responsible for.

[Ben Bollen]

Yes. And in the spirit of continuing our explorations, we want to tell you the following. First, there are many inventors who invented many amazing things and did not die as a result of their explorations. Second, there's a smaller yet significant population of inventors who did indeed expire as a result of their discoveries. Thinking of more recent examples, like James W. Heselden in. In September of 2010, the guy who bought the Segway company and then drove a Segway off a cliff.

[Noel Brown]

Off a cliff in equally Wile E. Coyote fashion.

[Ben Bollen]

Yes, quite acme.

[Noel Brown]

It's True, it's very acme indeed. But man, I think we got a couple that we didn't get to today that I think this is being an ongoing series. We'll just keep adding to Ben, but thanks for bringing these to us today, buddy.

[Ben Bollen]

And thanks for tuning in, fellow ridiculous historians. Big, big thanks to our super producer, Mr. Max Williams. Big, big thanks to our our whole team of research associates, as well as Alex Tiawada Williams, who composed this slap and bop and has not died of a result of his musical acumen.

[Noel Brown]

No, no. Nor from driving a segue. Awful clip. Thankful we love that guy.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, agreed.

[Noel Brown]

Huge thanks to Chris Fraciotes and Eve Chef Coates here in spirit AJ Bahamas Jacobs the Puzzler, Jonathan Strickland the Quizzter.

[Ben Bollen]

Big thanks to Rachel Big Spinach Lance. I should say, big spinach thanks to Rachel Big Spinach Lance.

[Noel Brown]

Ooh, ooh. And let's do the new thing we've been doing for the new year since we still haven't gotten the keys back to our social media accounts for ridiculous history as a show. So why not check us out as individual human people? Because we are those and we exist on the Internet. I am exclusively on Instagram. How now, Noah Brown, Ben, where can folks find you?

[Ben Bollen]

Well, first off, say the right words to a mirror in the dark or call my name at a crossroads. Yeah, I'll get back to you on that one. Also, you can find me Enbullen in a burst of creativity on Instagram or some derivation thereof wherever ats are used. We also want to thank our fellow rude dudes over at Ridiculous Crime and you know, Noel, Max, you guys, thank you for not killing yourselves with these wonderful inventions.

[Noel Brown]

You're welcome. We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Join late night legend Jon Stewart and the best news team for today's biggest headlines, exclusive extended interviews and more. Now this is a second term we can all get behind. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Tremarke]

Here at Life Kit, NPR's Self Help podcast, we love the idea of helping you make meaningful lifestyle changes. Our policy is to never be too punishing on yourself or too grand in your goals, which is why we've got shows on how to make little nudges to your behavior and create habits that stick. Listen to the Life kit podcast on iHeartradio.

[Holly Fry]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Max Williams]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Holly Fry]

Each season we explore a new theme, from poisoners to art thieves.

[Max Williams]

We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Holly Fry]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Max Williams]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Bollen]

You don't need another podcast. You've got too many already. But if you're looking for one that actually changes something, a way to take control of the chaos and find meaning, well, then maybe the one you feed is for you. I'm Eric Zimmer, and I bring real conversations with real people to help you feed the best part of yourself. No hype, no fluff, just wisdom. That works.

[Noel Brown]

Listen to the one you feed on.

[Ben Bollen]

The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.

[Noel Brown]

You get your podcasts.