Badass of the Week Returns, Part Two: Chesapeake Capes

Summary

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Ridiculous History: "Badass of the Week Returns, Part Two: Chesapeake Capes"

Podcast: Ridiculous History, iHeartPodcasts
Original Air Date: July 23, 2026
Guests: Dr. Pat Larish, Ben Thompson (“Badass of the Week” podcast)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Ridiculous History dives into the pivotal but under-appreciated Battle of the Chesapeake Capes, the decisive naval engagement that sealed the fate of the British at Yorktown and, thus, the American Revolution. Hosts Noel Brown and Ben Bowlin are joined by Dr. Pat Larish and Ben Thompson from the "Badass of the Week" podcast, who bring their signature blend of historical storytelling, irreverence, and detail. Together, they unearth tales of international intrigue, unsung heroics—especially that of the French naval commander Bougainville—and all the Ridiculous History energy listeners love.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the (Ridiculous) Historical Stage

• Running Gags and D&D: The episode begins with playful repartee about tautological team names (like Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim), nerdy jokes, and a brief aside into the hosts' D&D aspirations and professional adventure writing. (01:48)
• Framing the Episode: This is a second entry in a series celebrating "Badasses of the Week," marking America 250 and Bastille Day, emphasizing the often overlooked but crucial role of the French in the American Revolution. (07:15)

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2. The Yorktown Campaign – Common Myths and Overlooked Truths

• Popular Narrative: The hosts lay out how most Americans learn Yorktown’s story: Washington and French forces corner Cornwallis, leading to British surrender.
• Critical Point: They upend this by highlighting that the most decisive action involved not a single American, but rather the French navy, and especially the Battle of Chesapeake Capes. (07:40–08:26, 09:00)

Quote:

"The most decisive military action of the Yorktown campaign did not involve a single American soldier, sailor or Marine. That's the story we're going to tell today."
— Pat Larish (07:40)

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3. World War Before “World War” – Global Conflict Context

• The American Revolution is reframed as part of a sprawling global conflict involving England, France, and Spain, with fighting not only in North America but also in Gibraltar, India, the Caribbean, and Africa.
• Strategy: The French and Spanish open up multiple new fronts, forcing the British to divert resources away from the American colonies. (13:32–14:28)

Quote:

"We win because France attacks places, honestly, places that England cares about more—Gibraltar, India, the Caribbean. These are very, very lucrative places for the British Empire. ... We win because they pressure them across all fronts."
— Pat Larish (14:28)

• Benjamin Franklin’s Diplomacy: The episode notes Franklin and John Adams’ negotiation in France, spelling out the odd American-Franco-Spanish alliance.

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4. Countdown to the Battle: Stakes & Timing

• Time Pressure: Washington and French General Rochambeau had to besiege Cornwallis before the Royal Navy could extract him; “a real ticking time bomb scenario.” (16:01–16:31)
• Key Strategic Problem: The French fleet had to block the British navy from extracting Cornwallis and effectively ending the war. (16:01–16:31)

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5. Louis Antoine de Bougainville: The Episode’s Badass

• Biography Highlights:
  • Child prodigy in mathematics, Parisian nobility, and musketeer.
  • Veteran of the Seven Years' War (wounded, knighted), diplomat at the Treaty of Paris.
  • Explorer: Established the first European colony on the Falklands; led the first French circumnavigation of the globe (survived Magellan Strait, botanical studies).
  • A flower (Bougainvillea) is named after him. (21:17–24:14)

Quote:

"This guy is the captain of the Auguste and he has already lived basically like three lifetimes...publishes two treatises on integral calculus. ... He joins the army in 1750 as a musketeer, like D'Artagnan, fights against the British in Canada, he's wounded, gets knighted for heroism, ... part of the diplomatic team... then commands the first French expedition to circumnavigate the globe."
— Pat Larish (21:17)

• Jeanne Baré Subplot: An aside tells of Jeanne Baré, the first woman to circumnavigate the globe, who did so disguised as a man on Bougainville’s voyage. (23:00–23:23)

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6. Battle of Chesapeake Capes: Action & Tactics

• Naval Armadas: The French field 24 warships (1,700 cannons) versus the British 19 (1,400 cannons); but the British navy is considered the superior fighting force. (26:22)
• Bougainville's Bravery: He commands his ship, the Auguste, at the head of the French line, single-handedly charging the British, disrupting their formation, and exposing himself to maximum danger to buy time for the rest of the fleet. (25:23–27:50)
• Napoleonic Tactics: Ships line up “like an equal sign,” broadside to broadside; but Bougainville breaks formation for a bold, and risky, move. (29:12)
• Close Quarters: The battle is exceptionally brutal and close-ranged—musket and pistol fire between ships just feet apart—and shrouded in a dense “fog of war” from cannon smoke, so thick it could not be seen from shore. (27:50–34:06)

Quote:

"Bougainville, in his notes in his log, he says the vanguard was very hotly engaged. The fire was very brisk, which is brisk. This is a very."
— Max Williams (31:44)

• Outcome:
  • After two hours, with heavy losses (British: ~400 dead/wounded; French: ~200), the British retreat—one of their ships, the Terrible, sinks.
  • The French tactical aim—to keep Cornwallis cut off—is achieved. The Americans and French then force Cornwallis’s surrender.
  • Notably, the battle was nearly “invisible”—no Americans witnessed it because of distance and smoke. (39:15–41:18)

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7. Aftermath: Yorktown Surrender and the Forgotten French

• Immediate Effect: Without the French victory at sea, Cornwallis could have escaped; instead, he surrenders on Oct. 19, 1781, effectively ending major British action in North America.
• War Continues: The British still hold New York, but the critical momentum is lost; the Revolution’s conclusion is set. (41:19–42:17)
• The “Dinner Party” Snub: Rochambeau and Washington hosted a surrender dinner—villain Banastre Tarleton, basis for the bad guy in “The Patriot,” was specifically not invited due to his notorious cruelty and unpopularity. (43:23–45:41)

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8. Badassery Defined

• Does a ‘Badass’ have to be a good person? The group reflects:
  • It’s not about being “good,” but about “determination and perseverance to accomplish great things”—even if those deeds weren’t always noble.
  • Bougainville stands out for fighting for ideals and for his willingness to take personal risks at the front of the battle line despite a world-renowned, celebrated life. (49:13–51:59)

Quote:

"What it came down to was your determination and your perseverance to accomplish great things. ... The thing that makes these people inspiring to us is that Bougainville was like, I am going to take on...the most dangerous position on the fleet. I am going to go after this. I'm going to fight these guys and I'm going to win and I'm going to help America win its independence."
— Pat Larish (49:53–51:40)

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9. Legacy of Bougainville

• Post-war: Survives the battle and the French Revolution (not guillotined), becomes a count and senator under Napoleon, and is buried with honors in the Paris Pantheon—except for his heart, buried at his estate:
  Quote:

"Every part of him, except for his heart, which is buried at his old house, which is interesting."
— Pat Larish (48:21)

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10. Memorable Moments & Banter

• Running Jokes: The usual blend of “dad joke” puns, irreverent asides (snark about “bad Bens,” historic Benedict Arnold and Mussolini), and nerd-out moments (D&D, calculus, ship comparisons).
• French Acknowledgment: The group emphasizes the importance of remembering the French sacrifices and shifting the narrative of American exceptionalism.
• AJ Jacobs and Fermented Mare’s Milk: A Ridiculous History / Badass of the Week crossover included Ben Thompson choking down Mongolian fermented mare’s milk (“tasted like hay”) on Zoom, ending the “Drink of the Show” tradition. (54:18–55:16)

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Notable Quotes by Segment

• On Yorktown’s True Turning Point:

“Why were [the British] stuck? If the Royal Navy is the undisputed king of the Sea, how in the World. Did they let Cornwallis get cornered on a piece of dirt when he couldn't escape by ship? If you have the ultimate taxi service, why are you waiting on the curb to get arrested?”
— Max Williams (08:26)

• On the ‘Fog of War’:

“This titanic history changing struggle that's deciding the fate of an entire continent, it's happening right off the coast of Virginia … but if you were on the shore, you couldn't see a single thing. ...You can't see it.”
— Max Williams (32:11)

• On Badass Definition:

“Determination and perseverance to accomplish great things…Sometimes that goal is criminally insane, but that still counts.”
— Pat Larish (49:53)

• On Bougainville’s Epitaph:

“Home is where your heart is.”
— Max Williams (48:23)

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Important Timestamps

• French role overview & Yorktown myth: 07:15 – 09:36
• Chesapeake Capes context & British strategic problem: 09:36 – 16:31
• Bougainville’s origin & exploits: 21:17 – 25:23
• Battle of Chesapeake Capes (setup & action): 25:23 – 41:18
• Aftermath, surrender, dinner party: 41:18 – 45:41
• Defining 'badass' & Bougainville’s legacy: 49:13 – 51:59
• Mare’s milk humor: 54:18 – 55:16

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Episode Tone & Style

Ridiculously knowledgeable, witty, and full of affectionate irreverence; the hosts and guests balance deep historical insight with friendly banter and in-jokes, making arcane details both accessible and memorable.

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For Listeners

This episode is a must-listen for anyone who loves revolutionary history, tales of overlooked heroics, quirky international alliances, or wants their mental model of the American Revolution joyfully upended—with good puns and global perspective throughout.

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Transcript

[Noel Brown]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartradio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you as always so much for tuning in. And that's our super producer, Mr. Max Williams.

[Ben Thompson]

Max, the Chesapeake Boy Williams.

[Noel Brown]

Chesapeake boy.

[Pat Larish]

Okay, we still don't know. I do want to drop something in here from that's reference to our previous episode.

[Noel Brown]

Sure.

[Pat Larish]

It was brought up the absurd name of the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim

[Kal Penn]

which I one time saw and I've never forgotten.

[Pat Larish]

This translates to the Angels. Angels of Anaheim.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, it's a real ATM machine. Venn number logic there with the facts.

[Pat Larish]

Who's that sneaking in the phone? It's Max and he's full of knowledge just for you right now. Here he comes back with those facts.

[Noel Brown]

And that is none other than Mr. Noel Brown. The call me Ben Bolan. In this neck of the global woods, folks, we are having what we call a Badass Badass of the Week week with big big thanks to our returning none other than the co host of the actual Facts Badass of the Week podcast. Please join us in welcoming back Dr. Pat Larish and Ben Thompson.

[Troy Millings]

Woo.

[Pat Larish]

Yeah. Thank you guys so much for having us. We're going to thank you.

[Ben Thompson]

It's good to be here.

[Pat Larish]

Yeah, yeah. We're going to do. What's another chai tea? Chai tea is another one that's a repetition. I'm a machine kind of chai and

[Noel Brown]

chai tea teach a word for tea.

[Pat Larish]

Yeah, chai is just the Indian word for tea.

[Max Williams]

I'm a fan of wetlands so you can have like chai gelato.

[Ben Thompson]

There you go.

[Max Williams]

You know, as opposed to chai. You know chai chai that you drink.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, There we go. Folks. You could get the sense already that you are now hanging with five big time nerds.

[Ben Thompson]

Obviously we were talking about threatening to do a D and D campaign off Mike.

[Pat Larish]

I do.

[Ben Thompson]

I write.

[Pat Larish]

I professional. I write D and D adventures professionally. So I did know that about you.

[Ben Thompson]

Oh well, I'm excited to come into your world of D and D and dungeon Mastery.

[Noel Brown]

Folks, if you have not tuned in to our previous episode about a guy named George that Noel Max and I had no idea about, please hi thee to thy podcast platform of choice.

[Ben Thompson]

Or a nunnery depending.

[Noel Brown]

Sure, if you wish. Right. I think they have Wi fi podcasts.

[Pat Larish]

I bet.

[AJ Jacobs]

Right.

[Kal Penn]

We are.

[Noel Brown]

Ben and Pat, we are so excited that you all are returning with us despite our cavalcade of three out of five puns. You know, in our previous episode, you are returning to us with another story of a Badass.

[Pat Larish]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Ben Thompson]

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[Noel Brown]

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[Ben Thompson]

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[Noel Brown]

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[Kal Penn]

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[Noel Brown]

This is something building on our previous conversation. So for everybody wondering why we're calling our super producer Max the Chesapeake Cape, we promised we were gonna pay it off.

[Ben Thompson]

Also the Chesapeake Boy.

[Noel Brown]

Also the Chesapeake Boy. He's a Chesapeaker.

[Ben Thompson]

He's actually a Chesapeake cheesecake.

[Pat Larish]

Yeah, I like that one.

[Noel Brown]

There we go. There we go. So, Ben, Pat, what is going on in Yorktown in the 1700s?

[Ben Thompson]

Yes.

[Pat Larish]

So let's talk. We Were talking before about George Rogers Clark, and that's an interesting story. And we are at a. Where we're celebrating America 250 right now. And so we've been doing, at least on our show, we've been doing a lot of American history characters, Revolutionary War characters. And I think it's worth mentioning that a lot of America doesn't happen without the help of the French. As much as we like to dunk on the French here, yeah, they played a very important role in the American Revolution. We talked about a slightly more passive role in the last episode. This one is going to be a little bit more of an active role with direct fire engagement. So I guess in honor of Erica 250 and Bastille Day 237, we'll talk about the battle of Chesapeake Games. And Chesapeake Games is a weird thing.

[Ben Thompson]

Can I just say really quickly, I really appreciate you referring to it as America 250 and not the rebranded Freedom 250. We are an America 250 household here,

[Pat Larish]

so I appreciate that. I haven't even heard of that, so I don't.

[Ben Thompson]

It's better than you haven't. It's better than you haven't.

[Noel Brown]

It's a bag of badgers.

[Pat Larish]

Liberty 235 or 237 or whatever it is. Okay.

[Noel Brown]

What's up with the capes, though, you guys?

[Pat Larish]

Okay.

[Noel Brown]

Yes.

[Pat Larish]

Let's get into that. So, okay. It's an interesting thing about this, is that the. The most decisive military action of the Yorktown campaign did not involve a single American soldier, sailor or Marine. That's the story we're going to tell today. So we all kind of know the story of Yorktown the way that we are taught it in school. We picture the British there, pinned down on a peninsula in Virginia. Washington. Rochambeau. The American and French armies link up. They trap Cornwallis on this peninsula. They march down there. Cornwallis is locked into. He's got this bunker system at this fort in Yorktown. He gets surrounded, he gets attacked, he tries to break out. He's not successful, and then he has to surrender his army. That's the tale we've been told. Right?

[Max Williams]

Now, here's the thing. Yorktown is a coastal city, right? So it's a peninsula surrounded by water. And the British, well, at this point in history, who has the most powerful navy on the planet? So the Brits, I mean, they were basically ruling the Atlantic. So why were they stuck? If the Royal Navy is the undisputed king of the Sea, how in the World. Did they let Cornwallis get cornered on a piece of dirt when he couldn't escape by ship? If you have the ultimate taxi service, why are you waiting on the curb to get arrested?

[Pat Larish]

Yes. So the reason the revolution ends at Yorktown isn't because we walked up and demanded them to surrender. It's because a little bit before the siege, there was something that happened. There was a naval battle that happened off the coast of Yorktown that was among the most deadly naval conflicts of the 18th century. It's called the Battle of Chesapeake Capes, and it's the reason the United States exists. So we're going to talk about some Frenchmen, we're going to talk about some cannons, we're going to talk about British admirals, we're going to talk about gunfire, fighting Marines, all kinds of badass stuff on this episode.

[Noel Brown]

And in interest of full disclosure, folks, we just want to get in front of the emails and the scuttlebutt. We are going to have to acknowledge that not all Bens are great. There is one bad Ben in this

[Ben Thompson]

story, just one bad Ben in the historical bunch and no more.

[Noel Brown]

Well, there's Mussolini. I guess he qualifies.

[Ben Thompson]

Oh, he is a bit of a Ben, isn't he? I wonder if his friends called. I wonder if he was Ben to his friends. I've always referred to him exclusively as Benito.

[Noel Brown]

Okay, so, yes, as Benito, as little Ben, Benedict Arnold. We gotta just.

[Pat Larish]

I think we're really.

[Ben Thompson]

We're really expanding our definition of Ben's here.

[Pat Larish]

That's true.

[Noel Brown]

That's true.

[Pat Larish]

Are you Benjamin?

[Noel Brown]

Is this a legal inquiry?

[Ben Thompson]

Oh, we do have.

[Pat Larish]

I don't know, but I'm curious. Maybe it's Benjamin, and maybe it's not. Like if you're shorting for something else, it's bad.

[Noel Brown]

Okay, okay. Well, I just wanted to get in front of that for us to make sure that you fellow ridiculous historians know, as a crew that we do not. I hope we can say this unanimously. We do not condone Benedict Arnold.

[Pat Larish]

Benedict Arnold is an interesting character, though. We can do a whole thing on him because we did a Badass of the week on him, actually, because it was so wild. He was such a hero, such a brave American hero, military commander. So many amazing actions he did early on in the war.

[Ben Thompson]

One thing, that one thing.

[Pat Larish]

One bad decision, you know, one bad decision to find him. But he did a lot of heroic stuff for that. He won Saratoga. He, like.

[Ben Thompson]

I think we might have talked about this in the past. Ben. Yeah, Isn't that funny, man? How History can remember you for the one bad thing and then your name becomes a stand in for being a bad guy.

[Noel Brown]

Well, Ethelred the Unready, you can hear him debated about at length in Badass of the Week in the podcast. Ethelred the Unready was actually unready multiple times.

[Pat Larish]

That's true.

[Noel Brown]

So he deserved it. Yeah, okay, he deserved it. But we know, as we're saying here, it may be new information to a lot of us in the audience that when we're saying Chesapeake Capes, we're talking about a specific place, not a style of cloak.

[Pat Larish]

Yes. This is off the coast of Virginia in the Chesapeake Bay. So, okay, so Cornwallis is trapped in. He's trapped down in. So when the war begins, you have, or at this point in the war, we're in 1781, the British have an army up north and they have an army down south. The army down south, you guys have covered this before. But the army down south is being beaten. They've lost the cowpens, they've lost the Guilford Courthouse. They're retreating. Cornwallis, guys, he's got half the British forces in North America, but he's lost a couple battles. He needs to regroup. So he moves into Yorktown, waiting to get picked up by his Uber to bring him back to New York to regroup and refit. Washington is up north. He's like, this is our chance. So when Cornwallis retreats to Yorktown, Washington diverts almost the entire American army in North America to attack Yorktown to try to just concentrate on this one thing. We've got this guy, we've got him here. We need to just attack it and try to knock this one thing out. Divide and conquer, right? So he marches his troops a very long distance in a very short period of time to surround Yorktown. But in order for this to work, the British can't, as Pat said, just roll up with their boats and sail away. Now this is where we need to call in the French. And by 1781, the American Revolution is not just the 13 colonies of King George. It is a planet wide world war. France and Spain have jumped in and there's fighting everywhere.

[Max Williams]

We've got naval battles in India, skirmishes in Africa. We've got this huge kerfuffle going on in the Caribbean.

[Pat Larish]

Yes, yes. So, I mean, it's worth mentioning that the bloodiest battle and longest battle of the war of the American Revolution was the Siege of Gibraltar. More people died there than in any battle in the American Revolution. And it was part of that war so when we sent Benjamin Franklin. Here's a good Ben. We sent Benjamin Franklin and John Adams over to. Over to France to negotiate this. And when France joined, like, the deal we made with France was like, okay, any territory we take in North America is American, but I don't care what you guys do otherwise. And so you just fight whatever. And so the French and the Spanish start attacking all of these British colonies all over the world. Like you said, India, Africa, the Caribbean. They try to take Gibraltar, which was British, which is still British, but they. And they lay siege to it for, like, years. Right. And.

[Noel Brown]

And also India is really interesting, Pat. I was not aware of that. Noel, did you know about that? I didn't.

[Ben Thompson]

Nope.

[Pat Larish]

Yeah, France had colonies in India at the time, and they were trying to take it over. It didn't work out for them. They lost over there, but they tried. They were just attacking everywhere that they could. And that really spreads the English out. Right. It's not that the British don't lose because France joins the war, because France sends us a million soldiers to fight the war. They. They win because France attacks places, honestly, places that England cares about more. Gibraltar, India, the Caribbean. These are very, very lucrative places for the British Empire. And they're like, we don't have the forces. We don't have the resources to garrison all of this. So whatever, we'll just give up on the North America and we'll worry about the stuff that actually matters. We win because they pressure them across all fronts. And we open up, you know, not just a second front of the war, but a whole bunch of them now. Okay, this is what's going on here. But in order to get Cornwallis and his guys, we've got them trapped on the peninsula. The British Navy is coming to pick them up, and we have to stop them. So this is where the French fleet comes into play. And they have to kind of sail in here and block this fleet of British transport ships from picking up this whole army and moving them up to New York and extending the war by probably years.

[Max Williams]

Yeah. And this plan, it's a gamble. Every plan is a gamble. It has to do with timing. If Washington and the French General Rochambeau can get there first, we're fine. But if the British fleet shows up at the same time or even earlier, then Cornwall sails north and the whole thing falls apart.

[Ben Thompson]

Right.

[Pat Larish]

This is our chance to catch. Half their army is in one spot. We gotta catch them before they can escape.

[Noel Brown]

This is a real ticking time bomb scenario.

[Kal Penn]

Yes.

[Pat Larish]

Yes.

[Kal Penn]

Hey, everyone, it's Kal. Penn I'm the host of Irsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project, Hail Mary Massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth.

[Ray Porter]

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections and it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no. At this point it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that that deeply, emotionally affected me and I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah dude, me too.

[Kal Penn]

Listen to Irsay the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ashley Iconetti]

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[Pat Larish]

Yeah, it's pretty wild.

[Ashley Iconetti]

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[Pat Larish]

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[Ashley Iconetti]

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[Pat Larish]

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[Troy Millings]

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[Pat Larish]

This is, this is a serious fleet that's coming. They are, they're. These are, you know, think about like Napoleonic era wooden warships, three decks of cannons, right? The American navy basically is non existent. It's John Paul Jones and like two guys and like a pirate. And that's it. There's no fleet, there's no American fleet here. And the, the John Paul Jones's ship was built by. For the French. And so we, the British fleet rolls up and they're coming with an armed escort of warships. And the French admiral is a guy named Degrassi. He gives the order to sail out and meet these guys. Now this is where I want to introduce a character who I think is going to be our badass for this episode. Commanding the lead ship in the French formation is. The ship's called the Auguste and the captain is a guy that you need to know. His name is Louis Anton de Bougainville. And I'm sure I'm mispronouncing that Pat. Maybe you want to.

[Max Williams]

It works.

[Pat Larish]

Louis Anton, you said it with such authority. Yeah, that's half of it. It's like karaoke. You just gotta do it and own it. This guy is the captain of the Auguste and he has already lived basically like three lifetimes. He was born in Paris in 1729. His family was minor nobility, but both his parents died when he was 5, and he was raised by his older brother. He goes to the University of Paris. He publishes. Just for Fun. Publishes two treatises on integral calculus. He's a genius. Just for fun. He's a genius mathematician. He is a musketeer. He joins the army in 1750 as a musketeer, like D', Artagnan fights against the British in Canada during the Seven Years War, where he takes part in the defenses of both Quebec City and Montreal. He's wounded. He gets knighted for heroism in battle. He takes part of the diplomatic. He's part of the diplomatic team set by France to negotiate the Treaty of Paris that ends the war. And then after that, he becomes a famous explorer and naturalist. So he is the captain of the expedition that sets up the first European colony on the Falkland Islands. And then he commands the first French expedition to circumnavigate the globe. He departs Nantes in 1766. It takes him three years. He lost seven guys out of his 340 man crew. And that was, like, going the long way around the Strait of Magellan. So pretty badass stuff here. And along the way, they're doing the stuff that you see from, like, Captain Cook and things where they're stopping at uncharted islands and, like, doing, you know, surveys, botanical surveys, and drawing pictures of the animals and things that they see in the.

[Noel Brown]

What is this odd bird? And can we eat it?

[Pat Larish]

Yes.

[Troy Millings]

Yes.

[Max Williams]

Yeah. And among his crew, this is a fun little sidebar. There was a naturalist, Philibert Commerson, and his assistant was a woman named Jeanne Barry. And she disguised herself as a man. But because she was able to get herself on this expedition, she was the first woman to circumnavigate the globe.

[Pat Larish]

Yeah, yeah. She disguised herself as a man. She went by Jean or Jeanne. And then it was Jeanne. She's. You could do that better than me, Pat. I think you're more equipped to handle that joke. But they found out halfway through the journey that she was like. So she was like, it wasn't like, we found out years and years later. They found out on the journey, but nobody cared. And it was like, she becomes the first woman to circumnavigate the globe, which is super cool.

[Noel Brown]

They were like, okay, everybody's got a backstory. Our main thing is avoiding scurvy.

[Max Williams]

Yes. That's the correct attitude. Yes. So after this, Bougainville comes back. He becomes a superstar. He's got, like, a million and one different skills and experiences. He meets the king and queen, he gets A flower named after him. This is the Bougainville. You know those big kind of flowers that kind of spill over like purpley magenta colors.

[Pat Larish]

And now he discovered them on his trip and they named him after him.

[Noel Brown]

Super humble, this guy.

[Pat Larish]

Yeah, well the botanist named it after him. He didn't name it after himself.

[Noel Brown]

Okay, good save, good save.

[Max Williams]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, okay, so he's not writing calculus papers or picking flowers in the South Pacific. Now his main thing is to be lead captain in the most important naval battle of the American Revolution. So okay, who's leading the French charge? A genius. A world famous explorer and a combat veteran. This sounds like the right guy for the job, right?

[Noel Brown]

Yes.

[Pat Larish]

Bougainville is, I mean just a wild story, right? This guy's published books on calculus and has, is a celebrity like he's a national celebrity in France for he's being the first Frenchman to circumnavigate the globe. Now he's volunteered to be the tip of the spear here. This is not the kind of guy you put out on the front of the battle lines. But when the French fleet is lining up, he gets in the August and he's like, I'm in front. He sails right out to the front. And this is a big warship, 74 guns, right? Three decks bigger than anything that the continental navy could field.

[Noel Brown]

So for like current analogy here, Ben, or current comparison, this is kind of like an astronaut saying, yeah, I did a lot of outer space stuff, but also I want to lead a battle.

[Ben Thompson]

Right?

[Pat Larish]

Yeah, exactly. But he's also a world renowned naturalist and publish books on calculus. Although I guess astronauts are good at calculus also. So it's something like that, right? It's, it's like having somebody you've seen on TV decide that they're going to like lead the charge and carry the flag into battle. It's wild. Okay, so August is out front. He's the first one to spot the British. He's the first one to order his men to run the guns out. The stage is set for this battle. The British fleet is coming in. They've got their transport. The troop transports are lightly armed. They're, they're waiting back to see what happens in the battle. The British fleet is moving in here. 19 ships, 1400 cannons, and you've got the most polished professional sailors on the planet.

[Ben Thompson]

Planet.

[Pat Larish]

This is the greatest navy on earth and Everybody knows it. 19 ships, each of them three deck. Most of them three decks manowars. The French have 24 ships, so they've got more Ships, they've got a little bit more cannon, they've got 1700 instead of, they got 300 more cannons and they got five more ships. On paper that's an advantage. But in reality, the French navy has not performed well against the British navy to this point in the war. And they're going to continue to not perform well against them as the years go by. Bougainville is out there in front and he's sent out. He's also realizing that he's kind of dangerously overextended. He's out there in the front, right. He's facing 19 ships by himself. The other guys are behind him. And this is old style war where you've got to get the side, you got to get the broadside. Right. Think about pirate battles and things. You've got to get the side of your ship on the side of their ship. And if he's sailing out there front, you want to get the, you want your fleets to be an equal sign to shoot at each other. But if you're doing that, you're going first and you're the one that's going to get shot by all of those. That first ship is the one that gets shot by all those other ships as it goes down that equal sign.

[Max Williams]

So this is a bold move. Some might even call it reckless. Yes. So Bougaint feel he's got the August and he's daring the British. He's basically saying neener, neener, come and get me, come and get me. And trying to draw all their fire.

[Kal Penn]

Right.

[Max Williams]

While he's trying to distract them. While the rest of the French fleet is still getting into position.

[Pat Larish]

Yes. The Auguste breaks formation and charges ahead by itself to basically take on the entire British navy alone. Which forces the British admiral to try to react to this. He's got to do something. Right. He can't have this one ship just sailing out there. So he ends up coming in at a weird angle, which helps the French in the battle. So the ships kind of, they come into line with each other and the Augusta's out front. It's taking, it's, you know, they run up the iron cannons, row after row of muzzles. Soldiers are opening fire on each other, the cannons are shooting. But the ships get so close during the battle that dudes are like climbing up onto the masts and like shooting pistols and rifles at each other. Like you can see the guys across from you. It's not like you'd picture with a modern naval battle where you're looking through like a telescope or anything. You can see the dude in the sail across from you and you're trying to shoot him with your rifle. That's how close these guys are getting to each other. And the ships are just devastating each other. They're blasting the masts get knocked off. The Augustus loses masts. We're talking like shrapnel the size of baseball bats flying wildly around the decks here. Old school pirate, Napoleonic style naval battle. And it's happening in Virginia during the American Revolution. And for some reason we've never heard this story before and we have to

[Noel Brown]

mention for a quick interjection here, you read my mind, Ben. Napoleonic tactics, that's what we're talking about. Like the Civil War in the United States. Again, it's a terrible name. That was an exhibition of Napoleonic tactics on land where you had a bunch of people who were largely going to be poor, if we're going to be honest. And you made them stand in line and sort of march at each other until they died.

[Ben Thompson]

A little bit of a cannon fodder type situation.

[Noel Brown]

Just so. Yes, sir. And so we're saying that at this time in this maritime conflict, people were still deploying that Napoleonic philosophy. Correct?

[Pat Larish]

Right, right. Because this predates Napoleon. So this would be 20 years before Napoleon.

[Noel Brown]

So they didn't call it that. Yeah, he named it after himself later.

[Pat Larish]

Right, right. Our guy Bougainville is going to meet Napoleon later on. But, but yeah, so this is right before that and that's the time period.

[Ben Thompson]

Right.

[Pat Larish]

This is, it's not common for, for even at this time. It's not common for naval battles to take place at this range, this close to each other.

[Ben Thompson]

Right.

[Pat Larish]

Because you have so many cannons and they just blast each other and everything's on fire. The masts are getting knockoffs. All these, all these people are dying left and right. Usually you shoot from a farther distance away and try to hope that your guy's aim is better than theirs.

[Kal Penn]

Right.

[Pat Larish]

These cannons are not super accurate, they're not rifled bores or anything. So you just kind of hope that your guys gunnery skill is a little better than their guys gunnery skill. And you fight from a long ways away until it's time to maybe board them with your marines or whatever. But this isn't common. And it is an advantage actually for the French who are not as talented at gunnery as the British are. So when you get close like that, you can't miss. And this just lets them use their 25 ships and their 1700 cannons. It might not be great strategy like you said. Just Kind of march at these dudes, but like, all right, we got more than they do. They're better shots than us, so let's just get as close as possible. And the August and Bougainville, they are able to kind of mess up the British formation by charging in in a really weird way. He kind of lone wolfs it a little bit and disrupts their formation, which is also an advantage to the. I mean, he pays for it. Him and his crews get blasted pretty heavily for this. But it is effective now, you know, usually, but like you said, usually you're looking at somebody through a telescope, you're not looking the guy in the eye, trying to shoot at him with a handgun. In a naval battle from this time

[Max Williams]

period and Bougainville, in his notes in his log, he says the vanguard was very hotly engaged. The fire was very brisk, which is brisk. This is a very.

[Ben Thompson]

That's understating the case just a little bit.

[Max Williams]

Yes.

[Pat Larish]

Yeah, A brisk.

[Ben Thompson]

Brisk is something you used to refer to like a breeze or like, you know, a curse. An iced tea beverage, not gunpowder. But I appreciate the word play.

[Kal Penn]

Yeah.

[Max Williams]

And speaking of breezes and atmospheric phenomenon, we're talking about this and we're picturing this and we can picture this ship and that ship and the guys who can see each other without telescopes. But sometimes what gets lost in the way people tell this is that this naval battle, this titanic history changing struggle that's deciding the fate of an entire continent, it's happening right off the coast of Virginia, okay? And yet if you were on the shore, you couldn't see a single thing. There is so much smoke, and it becomes a literal fog of war. The cannon smoke is so thick, so heavy and so pervasive. Think after a fireworks show. Except like times I don't know how many orders of magnitude, there's just this wall of gray. You've got thousands of men, millions of dollars of pounds or francs or whatever of naval hardware, and you've got the future of the American rev just clashing together in this. You know, it's a hot mess, but it's a hot mess in a hidden bubble of violence. And then the people. I mean, I don't know if anyone's actually willing to sit on the beach in Virginia, but I guess maybe, what would they know? You know, you're going down to the beach and then you maybe hear a faint distant rumble. And maybe you guess that maybe there's some naval activity going on, I don't know. But you can't see it. You know, even if you're standing on a pier, you would not be able to see it. And that's going on for two hours. These two fleets locked in this brutal blind engagement. And finally one side realizes, hmm, maybe we're losing the gamble.

[Kal Penn]

Hey everyone, it's Kal Penn. I'm the host of Irsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project, Hail Mary Massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth.

[Ray Porter]

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no. At this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that that deeply, emotionally affected me. And I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah, dude, me too.

[Kal Penn]

Listen to your sake, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ashley Iconetti]

This is Ashley Iconetti from the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast Ben. I've been reflecting a lot lately on how many big life moments our listeners have experienced with us.

[Pat Larish]

Yeah, it's pretty wild.

[Ashley Iconetti]

They've watched us go from dating shows to engagements, weddings, babies, buying homes. Every stage comes with new decisions.

[Pat Larish]

The milestones are the fun part, but the planning is where things get real.

[Ashley Iconetti]

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[Pat Larish]

Since life moves so fast, the right tools can help you feel more confident. Download the Klarna app today or visit klarna.com to learn more. California Resident Loans made or arranged pursuant to a California Finance law license and MLS number 1353190 Klarna balance account required to be eligible for cashback points. Limitations, terms and conditions apply.

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[Troy Millings]

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[Ben Thompson]

Yes.

[Pat Larish]

So there is this fog of war. Ships are getting separated. It becomes this like, you know, it starts as this big line and whenever you look at like military tactics stuff, that's always how, how they draw it up. But like once you kind of get into a frenzy when it's. Once you kind of get into a brawl like this, it ends up like the Augusta is fighting two British ships. They're fighting the, the Ajax and the terrible. So there's two 74 gun British ships fighting the fighting the 74 gun August and they're just battling each other and other stuff is happening. But like you said, the fog of war is so dense you can't really see outside of it. The masts are down on all these ships, so there's no sailing anymore. They're barely, barely rowing. They're just shooting at whatever they can shoot at. And like you said, this is, you know, we've got 1700 cannons on one side, 14 on the other. We're looking at something like 33,000 plus cannons firing as fast as they can fire multiple, like at least I can't remember how far off the coast it is, but it's miles off the coast, so it's not. Not visible. And maybe that's why the story doesn't get talked about as much, because no Americans were there and no Americans could see it. But this battle is defining the American Revolution. And yes, like you said, when things are starting to look kind of bad, after two hours, darkness is starting to fall. You can't fight in darkness, and you don't want to because you don't want to accidentally crash into any of these other ships. So as darkness starts to fall, the British retreat. They've lost almost 400 guys. The French have lost 200 dead and wounded. The Terrible is sinking. It's unable to be repaired. It sinks to the bottom of the harbor. Rescue boats.

[Noel Brown]

Terrible.

[Pat Larish]

It's terrible. Yeah, it's terrible for that boat. You've got. You know, one thing that we think we don't think about too much with big colonial naval battles is you have rescue boats. So there's dudes out in rowboats rowing around, trying to pick up sailors out of the water. You've got guys kind of hanging on. And some of these sailors can't swim because they're drafted into this service. Some of these guys aren't volunteers. They're just impressed into the service. So they can't swim. They're just holding on to things that are floating and holding on to wreckage. You've got these guys rowing around on boats, trying to pull them out. The British admiral, Sir Thomas Graves, he's like, I think this is it. I don't think I can break through this wall here. I don't have the manpower to do it. And I've taken too many hits here. And his ships are all just smashed. The French tactic was to shoot down the masts of the British ships, because that's a thing that you can't really repair in the field, and it affects your ability to do anything else if you have no engine, basically. So the British retreat and dawn breaks at Yorktown. Rochambeau is there. Washington's there. You had mentioned Alexander Hamilton. He's there. Marquis de Lafayette's there. And they do go to the beach in Virginia for some reason, and when

[Ben Thompson]

they see likely heard a distant rumbling.

[Pat Larish]

They heard a distant rumbling of thunder. Yeah. And they come back, and as they're standing on the pier, they can see 24 French warships returning to the harbor. And they're like, that's it. We did it. We got them. There's huge cheer goes up, down the line from the soldiers on both sides and that's it. Cornwalls is not going to get out. The French and the Americans surround them. They besiege them, they start firing cannons at them. And on October 17, 1781, Cornwallis requests a ceasefire. Two days later, he unconditionally surrenders all British forces under his command. And with that one signature, half of the British army in North America becomes prisoners of war.

[Ben Thompson]

Wow.

[Max Williams]

Wow.

[Pat Larish]

Good boy.

[Ben Thompson]

Right?

[Noel Brown]

Half.

[Pat Larish]

Half the war goes on for two more years because the guys in New York don't surrender as easily, but they don't make any real expeditions out of there. And without these troops that Cornwallis had, they can't do anything right. So the United States ends up. The war ends officially in 1783. And all of the hard work that was done by the colonials over the many, many years of this war results in a free and independent United States. But it is largely due to, you know, this New Yorktown campaign, which gets mentioned all the time as the end of the war. And it's not really the end of the war. War goes on for two more years. But it's very interesting that like, like, oh yeah, Rochambeau showed up too. He was also there. It was like, well, There was also 24 French warships with 1700 cannons, like blasting the British Navy. We should probably mention this. I feel like when we talk about Yorktown, that's true.

[Noel Brown]

I just, I, I love the way we're port it because for a lot of us it will call to mind the big question about all the people who signed the Declaration of Independence. American school kids know some of the top names, but I always love thinking about the other. The person who was in the room for. Maybe there was a different reason. Maybe they were bringing the snacks in and they were like, oh yeah, I'll sign it too, man, I want to be part of the thing.

[Ben Thompson]

Did you say the snacks or the stacks?

[Noel Brown]

Snacks.

[Ben Thompson]

Snacks. Okay.

[Noel Brown]

You gotta have snacks.

[Ben Thompson]

Stacks of snacks.

[Noel Brown]

Potentially stacks of snacks. Just so. And there. There's another thing we, we have to mention here in, in you all's research. I'm not sure for the. Of the best way to, to set this up. I think you all did it perfectly with the title. I did not want to go to your stupid party anyway. What's that about?

[Pat Larish]

Discussed Banister Tarleton yet? We did a badass on him once. Banister Tarleton is the guy who, the bad guy and the patriot is based off him. Ban was like this 20 year old like cavalry officer. He's just Just the perfect. Just bad guy.

[Ben Thompson]

Just everything.

[Pat Larish]

Just burning people, burning stuff. They called him Butcher Tarleton, or Bloody Band for bloody Banister Tarleton. He's like a. He's an episode by himself. He's just like a. He's the ultimate villain of the American Revolution. And just everything you can think of. His parents were like. So he showed up and he was like. He claimed to have killed more men and ravished more women than any other British officer in the war. He would go around bragging about that after. And he's just this monster of a person. He's burning cities. He's killing prisoners of war. We can't stop him. He's recruiting loyalists to fight for him, which everybody hates more than having the actual fight, actual British, anyway. We all hate this guy. And when the war ends at Yorktown, they have a big. This is very 18th century, right? They have this big party. So Rochambeau and Washington invite Cornwallis to dinner, and they have this big dinner for all of the American and British and French officers. I can think of nothing more 18th century.

[Noel Brown]

How intense was that?

[Pat Larish]

I don't know. I just picture it being chill. I picture just being like, oh, that was a good war. Good war for you. Yeah, good war for me.

[Noel Brown]

I think it's like when. When we were all playing child sports and we had to get in a little light and.

[Pat Larish]

Yeah. High five after. It's like that.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. Oh, wow. Good.

[Pat Larish]

Yeah, I think so. But they didn't invite Banister Tarleton.

[Noel Brown]

Okay. Yeah. Because of his vibe, right?

[Pat Larish]

Because he's like. Yeah, because he was just. He was just a miserable, awful person and everybody hated him. And it doesn't end badly for him either. He goes back, he becomes like this superstar. He. He becomes a member of Parliament who advocates for the slave trade. He marries, like. Like the most famous. Like, a stage performer starlet in. In London, you know, he's, like, become super rich.

[Kal Penn]

Just.

[Pat Larish]

Just the worst. Just. He's just the worst. He's the worst in, like, sometimes, in a funny way, he's the worst in a.

[Ben Thompson]

In a. In a cadre of worst. So, yes.

[Pat Larish]

Yeah, he's the worst, but he didn't get invited to the party.

[Max Williams]

And he's ban B A N. Not Ben with a B, E N. Oh,

[Noel Brown]

Pat, thank you so much.

[Pat Larish]

That's good.

[Ben Thompson]

That's important. That's an important detail. I think we buried the lead.

[Noel Brown]

Yes. He is different. Different guy, different. Different first name with a B. It's also. We love the point, guys, that the Battle of Yorktown is seen as a climactic titular event, obviously. Right. But it is important to remember that things continued, as you said, for several years. And one of the facts, Noel, I don't know about you, man, but one of the facts that's going to stick with me here is when you, Pat, portrayed the Revolutionary War here in the US As a facet of a larger world war, is it fair to call that era of conflict the First World War?

[Pat Larish]

No, because you have the Austrian succession, you have the Seven Years War. You have all kinds of world wars. This is a very European thing. Thing. Because they've been, you know, this is kind of a continuation of the Seven Years War. This one doesn't even get mentioned that much in some of the other, when you're discussing other, you know, the sequence of European wars. But, yeah, this was just a mess. It culminated in that. Right. Because you have all these alliances. Spain is on France's side for this war. Spain is with us, and France against England. But then once that war ends, France and Spain are going to go to war with each other. It's a mess.

[Noel Brown]

Talk about a bag of badgers. Geez.

[Pat Larish]

Before we end, though, Ben, I would like to wrap Bougainville because he is an interesting character and he survives this battle. He leads his ship. He loses a lot of soldiers. He loses a lot of sailors and Marines in this battle, but he survives. He sinks one of the British war. He sinks the British warship. He continues on, fights in a few other battles in the Caribbean as part of this series of conflicts. Right. He fights in the Battle of the Saints, which is. The French are like, okay, we'll just take Bermuda because we're here. We'll just attack Bermuda. And he fights in a battle there. After the war, he goes home. He becomes an instructor at the French Naval Academy. He joins the French Academy of Sciences. He's able to not be guillotined during the Reign of Terror. He lives in this really nice estate in the Normandy coast. And then under the reign of Napoleon, he's made a count. He's given an order of nobility and becomes a count. And he serves as a senator for a while. And Napoleon's the government it. He dies in 1811, and he's buried in the Pantheon in Paris, which is, like a huge honor for, like, the greatest heroes of France. Every part of him, except for his heart, which is buried at his old house, which is interesting.

[Noel Brown]

What? Why?

[Pat Larish]

I don't know.

[Max Williams]

Because that's home is where your heart is.

[Ben Thompson]

Oh, yeah.

[Noel Brown]

Where your heart is.

[Pat Larish]

That's true.

[Ben Thompson]

Usually that's just like a crocheted, you know, placard or something like that. Not necessarily.

[Max Williams]

Sometimes you take it literally.

[Ben Thompson]

I guess so.

[Pat Larish]

I guess so.

[Noel Brown]

I imagine so. Yes. Home is where the heart is. This is anomalous to us, Pat and Ben, because this is, ethics aside, this is a story that is larger than life. There is more than one badass involved here. Right. So one of the questions we have to ask you all on behalf of our fellow ridiculous historians is this. How do we define a badass? What constitutes badassery? Does it always have to mean a good person?

[Max Williams]

Oh, Ben and I have talked about this. Yeah. It doesn't always mean a good person.

[Pat Larish]

No. It's not a requirement.

[Max Williams]

Although many badasses are good people or work for the service of good. Yeah, right.

[Pat Larish]

Yeah. It's a thing that came up when I was doing the first badass book. I wrote the whole book, right. I'd been doing the website for five years, six years. I got the book, I'd written all 40 chapters for the book. And my editor was like, you need to do an introduction chapter where you define badass. I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what makes all these guys badass? What does Leonidas have in common with Genghis Khan? How is Joan of Arc there? But Horatio Nelson, how all these guys, what is the thing?

[Noel Brown]

What's our rubric, right?

[Pat Larish]

What's the unifying factor here? And I think what it came down to was your determination and your perseverance to accomplish great things. Right? These are all people who had a goal that they were going after and they worked really, really hard to get it and they accomplished it. And sometimes that goal is criminally insane, but I think that still counts. Right? The thing that makes these people inspiring to us is that Bougainville was like, I am going to take on. I am a world renowned explorer and international celebrity, but I believe in this and I believe in the cause of, of liberty. And remember that the French fighting in this battle, they're still a monarchy. They're not flying the tricolor flag. This is pre French Revolution. A lot of the ideals of the American Revolution will rub off onto the French who are here. But this is the period of the Enlightenment in France. They are still trying to reconcile, let's be free thinkers and think for ourselves and have all these interesting ideas. Let's try to reconcile that with there's also a monarchy and God tells us that we have to do these things because this guy tells Us, we have to do them well.

[Ben Thompson]

And also, I mean, the, the Enlightenment seems like it would inherently kind of clash with the idea of warfare and killing other humans. That's a very enlightened behavior.

[Pat Larish]

Exactly, exactly. But these guys get out there and they're like, well, I gotta, you know, you gotta break some eggs. And they're, they're like, we gotta, you know, he believes in this. He's like, I gotta get out here. I'm gonna fight for. These guys are fighting for like, freedom and, you know, their own self determination, all this stuff. And so he's, he's a true believer. And he goes and he's like, I'm gonna fight for it. I don't care that, like I'm a celebrity or whatever. I don't care that this is the most dangerous position on the fleet. I am going to go after this. I'm going to fight these guys and I'm going to win and I'm going to help America win its independence. I'm going to fight these British who I've been fighting my whole life. And there's something inspiring about these people

[Ashley Iconetti]

who

[Pat Larish]

get out there and do these things. They kind of inspire us to. I'm not badass in my actual life, but there are days where I feel like I don't want to answer my emails. And then I try to think about Bougainville charging 17 British warships and I'm like, maybe I'll answer my emails this morning

[Noel Brown]

Also, you know, it might be badass to dodge an email. You know what I mean?

[Ben Thompson]

Yeah.

[Max Williams]

Depending.

[Kal Penn]

Yeah, you rebel.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, you're leading. You're the tip of the spear on that one, right?

[Pat Larish]

I handle my emails the way he handled the terrible and the Ajax. I just delete. Just demolish my emails. Delete. Unread.

[Max Williams]

Delete.

[Pat Larish]

If only like doctor's office. What do they want? Delete.

[Noel Brown]

Exactly. Spam likely. Not with me. It's a joke earlier about Noel. I think we were talking off air about some phone calls, right?

[Ben Thompson]

Oh, yeah,

[Noel Brown]

we also again, folks, Noel, Max and I are not blowing smoke. We're not blowing rainbows or trumpets and angel farts here. Badass of the Week is one of our favorite, favorite explorations of exactly what we are hanging out with today and indeed the entirety of this week. Pat, thank you so much for coming and hanging out with us.

[Max Williams]

Ben, thanks for having me.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, my gosh, Ben, you know Nolan, I have to do the check in. Pat, are you okay with this Ben Thompson guy? Is he all right?

[Max Williams]

Yeah, he's all Right, right.

[Ben Thompson]

He seems pretty cool to me.

[Max Williams]

He's cool.

[Ben Thompson]

And thanks for coming back.

[Noel Brown]

Just to check it

[Pat Larish]

twice if you want to exit the podcast.

[Noel Brown]

Well, thanks, as always, to our super producer, Mr. Max Williams. We usually have a long run of credits. We're going to save you guys some time here, except. But for one thing, we have to recommend a good friend of the show that you all should hang out with, if you haven't already. His name is AJ Jacobs.

[AJ Jacobs]

Oh.

[Pat Larish]

We had him on our show. He's awesome.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. Yeah. We call him Bahamas. You could never ask him why.

[Ben Thompson]

Not sure either. I don't know. He's a good guy. That makes perfect sense. I gotta check out that episode.

[Pat Larish]

Yeah, we had a great episode with him. He. I was doing for a while. I was doing the drink of the show, where every show I would have some kind of beverage that was related to whatever we were talking about.

[Noel Brown]

Ooh.

[Pat Larish]

I could get into the history. Yeah. We were doing Mongolian Pat had brought some Mongolian mythology, the Jengar epic, and those guys all drink fermented mare's milk. Oh, in the story.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah.

[Ben Thompson]

Oh, good.

[Pat Larish]

So I ordered fermented mare's milk from Mongolia.

[Max Williams]

I did not make him do this. This is Ben's own initiative.

[Pat Larish]

It's boozy. Yeah. It's fermented, so it's alcohol. It's like a. It's, you know, it's like a wine level of alcohol.

[Noel Brown]

What's your take? Did you all enjoy it?

[Pat Larish]

I drank it. We don't. You know, we live in different cities, so I just did it over zoom, and. Yeah, it was really not good. It was really bad.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. I don't know, man. You got that seven league stare for a second.

[Pat Larish]

Yeah, it tasted like. But it was the show AJ Was on. I drank it, and it was. It tasted like hay. And that was the end of the drink of the show. We never did it again. Oh, geez. It was that bad?

[Ben Thompson]

Well, hay is indeed for horses. And good on you for taking one for the team.

[Pat Larish]

Yeah, I think that episode is, like 80% of that episode is just me gagging, choking.

[Ben Thompson]

I'm glad you made it. Well, note to self on alcoholic beverages. Never to try. But thanks again, y', all, for coming, and we'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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[Kal Penn]

Hey everyone, it's Kel Penn. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast, Hearsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Every episode, I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobooks available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to Hearsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bethany Frankel]

Summer is here at Orderly Meds, we know this time is a reminder that life is full of new beginnings. Whether you're celebrating the nice weather, starting a new chapter, planning a vacation, or simply looking ahead to what's next, this season can be the perfect time to invest in yourself and your health. If you've struggled with weight loss and are curious about GLP1 medications, orderly meds can help you learn about your options. Through a simple virtual process, you can connect with licensed medical professionals who can determine whether treatment may be appropriate for you. Getting Getting started is fast, convenient, and happens online from the comfort of home. This summer, consider a new approach to feeling your best. Visit orderlymeds.com podcast to learn more. That's orderlymeds.com podcast orderlymeds.com podcast because every new season is an opportunity to take the next step forward. Compounded medications are not FDA approved, eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.

[Pat Larish]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Bethany Frankel]

Guaranteed Human.