Bir Tawil: The Ridiculous Tale of "Earth's Worst Real Estate"

Summary

Ridiculous History – “Bir Tawil: The Ridiculous Tale of ‘Earth’s Worst Real Estate’”

Podcast: Ridiculous History (iHeartPodcasts)
Episode Date: November 11, 2025
Hosts: Ben Bowlin & Noel Brown

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Ben and Noel explore the bizarre story of Bir Tawil, a small patch of land between Egypt and Sudan that, for over a century, has been actively avoided by both countries. Despite intense global competition over land, Bir Tawil remains one of the only habitable places on the planet that no nation claims. The hosts dig into how this “reverse border dispute” came to be, highlight antics of would-be micronation founders, and delve into what makes Bir Tawil “Earth’s Worst Real Estate.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Scarcity and Value of Land (04:19–06:53)

• Real estate as a hot commodity: Noel muses that with billions of people and limited space, land is generally fought over at personal, local, regional, and national scales.
• Exceptions like Bir Tawil: Ben points out, “there are parts of planet Earth that literally nobody wants... One of our favorites is a little place called Bir Tawil.” (06:53)

2. Where (and What) Is Bir Tawil? (07:16–08:23)

• Location: Situated between Sudan and Egypt, Bir Tawil is a 795 sq mile (2060 sq km) desert strip—essentially a “postage stamp” sized patch neither side wants.
• Mutual disownership: “Egypt says it belongs to Sudan. Sudan says it belongs [to Egypt].” (07:41)
• Both countries publish maps showing the other as the owner. “Both countries make maps to this day, claiming the other country owns this little spot of land.” (07:47)

3. Getting to Bir Tawil (08:23–09:46)

• Extreme inaccessibility: Quoting The Guardian, travel requires venturing through the vast, largely barren Nubian Desert—or, from Egypt, crossing restricted zones requiring complex paperwork.
• “Once you arrive... you are going to be unimpressed.” (09:35)
• Description: It’s “deserted, unless you’re into barren, uninhabited places with no signs of human life or activity.” (09:46)

4. The Concept of Terra Nullius (10:39–12:22)

• Definition: Noel explains, “terra nullius... is a Latin phrase meaning land belonging to no one, and describes a territory... not claimed or recognized by any state or sovereign authority in the international law community.” (11:40)
• Historical use: Ben and Noel discuss how colonial powers used this to justify taking “unclaimed” land, even when indigenous people lived there.

5. The Border Dispute’s Absurd Roots (13:33–21:53)

• Origin in colonial boundaries: The scrambling began with the British occupation (1882) and the Anglo-Egyptian Condominium Agreement of 1899, which set a straight-line border at the 22nd parallel—“using straight lines with very little consideration for geographical features, cultural divides... or ethnic differences.” (18:23)
• 1902 administrative adjustment: For local practicalities, the British drew a temporary boundary, swapping Bir Tawil (then used by Egyptian nomads) and the Hala’ib Triangle (a valuable Red Sea coast area) between Sudan and Egypt.
• “You can either own Bir Tawil or you can own the Hala’ib Triangle... the triangle is by far the better piece of real estate... sea access, much larger, not inhospitable desert.” (22:11)
• Modern disputes: When Sudan became independent in 1956, both countries claimed the triangle, making Bir Tawil a diplomatic “hot potato” neither wanted.
• Strategic reason: To claim Bir Tawil is to forfeit the legal basis for claiming the more coveted Hala’ib Triangle.

6. Life (or Lack Thereof) in Bir Tawil (24:59–26:03)

• No permanent habitation: Few nomads pass through, sometimes for gold panning; otherwise, it remains “terra nullius.”
• Notable quote: “It is a real-life no man’s land... the only habitable place on earth not currently claimed by any recognized government.” (24:59)

7. The Micronations Craze (26:03–36:15)

• Micronations galore: Many online have claimed Bir Tawil as their own micronation—but nearly all have never visited.

• 2014: Jeremiah Heaton’s “Kingdom of North Sudan”:

  • Motivation: “His daughter Emily had been obsessed with the idea of becoming a real princess.” (26:46)
  • Heaton traveled, planted a flag, and tried to crowdfund $250,000 to develop the “country.” It failed spectacularly, facing backlash as a tone-deaf act reminiscent of colonialism.
  • Memorable moment: “Instead of people contributing toward this US$250,000 goal... folks from across the planet united as haters and critics. They said, you are not being cool. This is not about your daughter. Dude, you’re trying to bring back colonialism. You are a 21st century imperialist.” (33:01–33:42)

• 2025: The Principality of Bir Tawil:

  • Claimed by Giovanni Caporaso Gottlieb, who has created a formal “framework of governance,” with “citizens, diplomats, tourism, and even a (theoretical) application to the United Nations.” (36:15)
  • Factoid: “According to the 2024 census, the principality counts 3,030 citizens, many of whom belong to the Ababda and Bashiri people, nomadic ethnic groups native to the region.” (37:01)
  • “Their primary source of revenue is tourism, especially from people who say, ‘I want to visit a place that technically isn’t anywhere.’” (38:12)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Bir Tawil’s value:
  “You can either own Bir Tawil or you can own the Hala’ib Triangle… the triangle is by far the better piece of real estate... sea access, much larger, not inhospitable desert.” – Ben (22:11)

• On the mutual disavowal:
  “For more than a century, both Egypt and Sudan have looked at this desolate stretch of abstract art desert and said, no, no, no, seriously. No, you take it. No, no, no, no, no. You guys take it.” – Ben (12:36)

• On the terrain:
  “There are no traces of permanent inhabitants, no roads... It is a real-life no man’s land or terra nullius.” – Noel (09:46)

• On Jeremiah Heaton’s princess plan:
  “I am traveling to Bir Tawil. I’m going to take ownership of this disputed land, this terra nullius no one desires. I’m going to found a new country. We’ll call it the Kingdom of North Sudan. I’m going to install myself as head of state... then I will make you, my daughter, an actual princess.” – Ben (31:29)

• On the modern micronation attempt:
  “This is the most formal and ambitious action ever taken regarding this territory since the late 1800s, early 1900s.” – Ben, on Bir Tawil’s 2025 UN observer application (36:46)

• Tidbit of dry humor:
  “History is weird, folks. And real estate belief is a hell of a drug.” – Ben (39:21)
  “It’s like that place where all the states intersect... a little bit kitschy, right?” – Ben, comparing Bir Tawil tourism to US roadside attractions (38:12)

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Important Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamps | |:--------------------------------------------|:---------------| | Real estate and global land scarcity | 04:19–06:53 | | What and where is Bir Tawil? | 07:16–08:23 | | How to get there (and why you wouldn’t) | 08:23–09:46 | | Terra nullius explained | 10:39–12:22 | | Colonial boundary origins | 13:33–21:53 | | The “choose one”: Hala’ib Triangle vs Bir Tawil | 22:11–24:10 | | Nomads, gold panning, and no permanent life | 24:59–26:03 | | Micronations and Jeremiah Heaton’s scheme | 26:03–34:00 | | The Principality of Bir Tawil (2025) | 36:15–39:10 | | Tourism & kitsch factor | 38:12–39:10 | | Philosophical wrap-up | 39:21–40:08 |

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Tone and Style

The hosts maintain their signature banter throughout—mixing encyclopedic curiosity, deadpan humor, and a touch of world-weariness, always with tongue firmly in cheek.

Noteworthy Banter

• Jokes about Monopoly and the “Landlord’s Game.”
• Synesthetic musings about “owning air and wind.”
• Riff on “free real estate” meme (26:03) and comparisons with American roadside “nowhere” landmarks.
• Repeated, playful “dibs!” and “no take-backs” refrains to underscore the absurdity.

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Summary in a Nutshell

Bir Tawil: A “reverse border dispute” where, unique among global territories, the land is forsaken by both neighbors out of strategic calculation instead of being fought over. This oddity has attracted the attention of internet micronation founders, earnest but misguided dads, and would-be UN states, but Bir Tawil remains the world’s least coveted real estate—proof that sometimes, in history, nobody wants to win.

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For more on bizarre borderlands and the history of micronations, check out past Ridiculous History episodes. And, as Ben and Noel quip: ‘History is weird, folks. And real estate is downright ridiculous.’

Transcript

[A]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you as always so much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our super producer, Max the Monopoly Man Williams.

[B]

I was thinking something like that, Max the Landlord. Yeah. Remember the Landlord's Game, man? Barbara Gardens, the original Gardens.

[A]

The original version of Monopoly was called the Landlord's Game and it's a, it's a warning, a clarion call and a parable about the dangers of unfettered capitalism. Spoiler. That's part of why Monopoly, as it stands now, is broken. It's a broken game and it breaks a lot of families over, over the holidays. You're Mr. Noel Brown.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're Van Boland.

[A]

I am from earlier and no, this is going to be a fun one for us because we discussed it a little bit in an episode of our sister show. Stuff they don't want you to know. Maybe the best way to get into it is to talk about real estate. It's always been kind of a hot, sometimes touchy commodity.

[B]

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[B]

It's hot real estate. They ain't making any more land, right? Or maybe, I don't know, we'll see a TBD on that. So yeah, with billions of people across this planet of ours, real estate's always been that thing. Hot and sometimes touchy, as you said, commodity. However, on a local level, we start to see the prices of housing and rent playing huge roles in a particular community's success and or failure.

[A]

Yeah. And then if we scope out to a regional level, we will see that states and nations pretty much since civilization began, have always been constantly fighting over who gets to own certain things, often with bloody results.

[B]

Mine.

[A]

Mine. Dibs.

[B]

Am I right?

[A]

Shotgun? Either as in calling dibs or using.

[B]

Firearms so to threaten people to stay off my land.

[A]

Right? And for the most part, people aren't building new land. Technically, there are endeavors out in East Asia and in the Middle east to make new islands or to expand existing land.

[B]

What about terraforming Mars? How are we doing on that?

[A]

Still in the drawing board phase. Yeah, but outside of a few places like Antarctica, which has been dedicated to pure scientific research due to the Antarctica Treaty, it seems like.

[B]

And also, it ain't good for much else given the inhospitable climbs. Right?

[A]

It's great for building snowmen or accidentally becoming a snowman if you're outside too long. But outside of places like Antarctica or the moon or maybe Mars, to your point, it seems like every other place place on Earth is kind of owned by someone.

[B]

Yeah, it's real estate, land, whatever, is what they might call at a premium. Places like New York City, where everything is even more scarce in terms of literal space. You start seeing things just getting stacked on top of each other, you know, up as far as allowable limits might dictate. What are those called? Air rights.

[A]

Yeah, air rights. Up into airspace. How far can you go? How much? How. How much of the air pass the top of your building? Do you own?

[B]

Can you own the air? Can you own the wind? Can you own a soul? I would love to be able to.

[A]

Of the wind. Some people do own songs, which will be a fun episode for us to explore in the future.

[B]

Colors of the Wind could be reinterpreted as a song about synesthesia.

[A]

There it is. And I love it. I'm here for it as a synesthete. So as we're gonna see in today's episode, it turns out despite this huge land grab that's been going on for all of human ridiculous history, there are parts of planet Earth that literally nobody wants. One of our favorites is a little place called Bir Tawil.

[B]

If you might pull up a map of Africa or the African continent and perchance zoom in on the border between Sudan and Egypt, you might notice a little something odd. A postage stamp sized 795 square mile piece of land sandwiched betwixt those two countries. Egypt says it belongs to Sudan. Sudan says it belongs. He said. Wait a minute. Wouldn't it usually be the other way around?

[A]

Right.

[B]

What about the mine of it all?

[A]

So. Right. What about the mine of it all?

[B]

No one ever does yours.

[A]

I love betwixt as well. So both countries make maps to this day, claiming the other country owns this little spot of land.

[B]

Take it, please, please take it.

[A]

And they keep trying to just push their own versions of the truth and get the United nations to accept it. Our friends over at the Guardian can tell you how to get to Bir Tawil. Spelled it's two different words. B I R, space, T A W I L. Spoiler. Folks, it is super inconvenient to get over to this place. Let's go to the Guardian.

[B]

Take some doing. According to the Guardian, to get there, you have two choices. They say the first is to fly to the Sudanese capital, Khartoum, charter a jeep and follow the Shendi road hundreds of miles up to Abu Hamed, which is a settlement that dates back to the ancient kingdom of Kush, which I love the name of that kingdom. It's a good name.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Reason it's fun to say, but also, isn't that a. It's a weed thing, right?

[A]

Yes, it's a cannabis term. Today, the Guardian continues. This settlement, Abu Hamad, serves as the region's final permanent human outpost before you reach the vast waste of the Nubian Desert. It is twice the size of mainland Britain. It's almost completely barren. The second option they mention is to approach from Egypt, which means you have to go to the southernmost city, Aswan. You have to somehow find your way down through the inhospitable expanse between Lake Nasser to the west and the Red Sea to the east. This is going to be a tougher option because the Egyptian army considers this a restricted zone. So you got to get a lot of paperwork before you go.

[B]

Lest ye be shot at.

[A]

Yes. Lest ye be shotgunned upon. And once you arrive. Here's the thing, folks, if you make it to actual Bir Tawil, you are going to be unimpressed.

[B]

It is deserted, unless you're into barren, uninhabited places with no signs of human life or activity. That's because Bir Tawil is exactly that thing. There are no traces of permanent inhabitants, no roads. They don't need roads. It's not governed by any law. The land cover is sand and several mountains are the only features to speak of. It is a real life no man's land or terra nullius and nullius. And Ben, this also makes me think of something we talked about on Stuff They Don't Want yout To Know About. Some places where a lot of these like phone bank scams take place. And there are these like sort of off the books, lawless regions in the jungle where these kinds of operations are able to, you know, sort of go unnoticed by any international authority or even national authority. Remind me of where that was, Ben.

[A]

We'd be thinking specifically Myanmar. Yeah, Myanmar there in Southeast Asia. Check out the work by our colleague Denise Chan on the scam industry there.

[B]

Scam Fact Factory. Excellent series.

[A]

And a lot of those folks are working there against their will. Always remember, even if a scammer is calling you, they might be forced to do so. Also, I love the point about whether or not you will find beer. To will. Impressive fellow. Ridiculous historians. I fondly recall one of the first times I saw the desert ecosystem of the United States. And it struck me that if a God exists, this must be the place where that God got into abstract art. So if you like abstract art, you might like Bir Tawil, but you will be hard pressed to find a decent root beer float.

[B]

Uh huh, yeah. Or maybe even like potable water, you know. The land terra nullius, by the way, the term we were talking about a moment ago is a Latin phrase meaning land belonging to no one, and describes a territory or territories that aren't claimed or recognized by any state or sovereign authority in the international law community. This is a concept that's often been used to justify occupation of said land because no one called dibs. This land being not under any formal government control, even when there might be a handful of settlers there.

[A]

Yeah, or people who've been living there for untold millennia.

[B]

Oh yeah, that too.

[A]

This goes back to the days of colonialism where you could just plant a flag and say shotgun. This is now France somehow. Yeah, right. Called dibs.

[B]

No taxis, backsies.

[A]

Right? And border disputes. Going back to your earlier point, they're all too common in ancient and modern history, but usually those disputes, overwhelmingly those disputes, arise from two or more nations all wanting to own the same piece of property. This is the opposite of that. For more it's so weird here. For more than a century, both Egypt and Sudan have looked at this desolate stretch of abstract art desert and said, no, no, no, seriously. No, you take it. No, no, no, no, no. You guys take it.

[B]

And I mean, you might be thinking to yourself like, why would anyone do that? It seems like, you know, empires have always been built on like, acquiring and conquering and, you know, planting that flag. It must have something to do with it not being a particularly worthwhile strategic anything.

[A]

It has everything to do with that. And you nailed it. So how did we get here? The Quick Origin Story to understand this truly ridiculous madcap situation, we got to travel back to the British occupation of Egypt in 1882.

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[A]

So. So ostensibly they made a short term solution. They wanted to protect British monetary Interests, the empire's interest in the country of Egypt. And they also wanted to control local trade. They were super pissed at the Ottoman Empire at this time. So they wanted to futz with the Ottoman Empire and they wanted to strengthen their control or influence on the Suez Canal. But this seizure of land kick started what we call the scramble of Africa. And if you Fast forward to 1899, you run into a very fancily and confusingly named thing, the Anglo Egyptian Condominium Agreement.

[B]

Yeah, what's that about? The Anglo Egyptian Condominium sounds like a timeshare.

[A]

Right.

[B]

This is what set the border between these two countries at the 22nd parallel during the era of, of a peak colonialism. The Brits were essentially making an executive decision about this without particularly consulting anybody else, specifically the locals. The first attempt to redraw those boundaries followed a similar pattern to how European powers might have drawn up the rest or sliced up, carved up the rest of Africa using straight lines with very little consideration for geographical features, cultural divides, you know, between the different regions or going along with that, ethnic differences, which as we know in this part of the world can vary widely in a very small distance across very small.

[A]

Absolutely, yeah. Because cultural boundaries can often be distinct from geographical boundaries. And I love that point. Somebody looked at the map, we don't have to get into it, but someone looked at the map, thought of the parallels and just took a line and a ruler and went zhoo. Yep, chippy choppy, chippy choppy tickety boo. Tally ho. In a rare backstep or backpedal for the empire, just a few Years later, in 1902, the United Kingdom drew a separate different boundary for administrative purposes. This is where the map starts to go wrong. Now at this time still, Egypt and Sudan are not really independent. They are vassal states or vassal regions of the British Empire. So officially, our friends the Brits hope that these new boundaries can reflect the land. Based on what you were saying, Noel, the use by locals in the area. Right. So if these folks consider themselves Egyptian, why don't we call this part Egyptian territory? But unofficially, see, that was what they sold to the PC masses. Unofficially, they had a race for resource extraction and control. And they made this deal go through by softly implying in back rooms that this was a temporary solution. It was a band aid. We're just keeping things stable until a more permanent solution can be found.

[B]

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[A]

Right, chin up.

[B]

Thanks for the beep there, Max.

[A]

Thanks for the beep there, Max. But this was not the truth. They were making a long term play to carve up and further control the area. So the new boundary in 1902 puts this tiny little, as you said, postage stamp, Bir Tawil, as part of Egypt. And the reason they do this is because at the time back then, there's a semi nomadic tribe, the Ababda, and they're from Egypt. They use this land as grazing land for their animals. Animals. But the situation becomes complicated because on the other side, if you go just a little bit further east to the coast of the Red Sea, there's another piece of land or property that switches, right? You either own the area of the inhospitable desert of Bir Tawil or you control something called the Hale Triangle.

[B]

So is beard. So will just kind of the shape that got left out from all this carving. Just the little like leftover remnant that nobody wanted. Cause they'd already taken their bits. And this was the part that like, nothing quite intersected with. And now it's this inconvenient truth that they have to reconcile to some degree.

[A]

It's the weenus. Yeah, it's lil dingus of the thing. Because they again, they just, like you were saying, drew that straight line across the parallel and. And this is where. Okay, so this is where we get to a mutually exclusive thing. You can either own Bir Tawil or you can own the Halib Triangle. And pardon our pronunciation, we're not native Arabic speakers, the triangle is by far the better piece of real estate. We're talking Park Place versus one of the dumb Monopoly squares at the very beginning of the game. Yeah, jail, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that. So here's why the triangle is so much better. It's on the coast of the Red Sea, so you have sea access. And it is much larger. It's 7,950 square miles, approximately. And a lot of that area is not inhospitable desert. So both Egypt and Sudan want the triangle. The triangle initially comes under control of the British Governor of Sudan. Neither country is super happy about this. Egypt and Sudan both want the triangle, but ultimately they answer to Britain. So they can't really do anything about it except steam slowly and cook in their own juices. Problems really start when these countries both become independent.

[B]

Yeah, it happens in 1956 when Sudan claimed ownership, at which time, rather, Sudan claimed ownership of the Halaib Triangle. But Egypt then said, not so fast. The Sudan, stating that the 1902 administrative boundary was meant to be temporary. So the Halaib Triangle, for all intents and purposes, according to Egypt anyway, belonged to Egypt. And the Bir Tawil was Sudan's.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And Sudan said exactly the opposite. So each country, for more than a hundred years now, how ridiculous is this? And each of them insists that the map that shows the triangle as their territory is the real map. And as a side effect, neither country will ever claim Bir Tawil because if they did so, they would agree with the other guy's map and they would sacrifice their claim to that juicy triangle. It's so surreal. The country's leaders, like, no matter who is in government, even after the split between Sudan and South Sudan, in our lifetimes, every leader of both of these countries just keeps accusing the other guy of owning Bir Tawil.

[B]

It's very doctor Strange, love. Very. You pointed out, Ben. Joseph Heller makes me think of something Kurt Vonnegut might get wrapped up in. This idea of a place that, for all intents and purposes, at least to those concern, does not exist. However, you know, people do pass through, exists, you know, as a geographical feature. And so you do. While there aren't very many folks who have settled it, you will see nomadic communities passing through. Oh, Ben, you also pointed out that Professor Alistair Bonnet, who's a social geographer and author of the Unruly Places, described it as the only habitable place on earth not currently claimed by any recognized government. Government which supports, I think, what we've.

[A]

Been saying to make somebody else claim it.

[B]

Just take it, man. No, but so back to the nomadic communities, man. They pass through. You get folks maybe panning for gold and things like that, temporarily setting up to try to extract some resources. But in general, it's still got that terra nullius thing going for it.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And this is where we get to a bit of a bookend, right? Because of course, shout out to Tim and Eric, you look at this and some people think it's free real estate, Right? It's free real estate. We got the keys for you right here. So multiple people have tried to exercise this old colonial idea of terra nullius and create what we would call a micronation. Thing is, a lot of these folks haven't actually visited. They've gone online and said, this is me now. I own this.

[B]

Yeah, good luck once you actually get there and see how rough a go you're probably going to have of it there in that absolutely brutal climate.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And this is. This goes back to our. An old hobby horse of ours, folks, from years ago, the concept of micronations. Please check out our earlier episodes multiples. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The principality of Sealand. That's a cool one. It's an old fort off the coast of the United Kingdom. Anyway, one of the most interesting attempts to control Bir Tawil occurs in 2014. A lot of people are trying to do this, but there's one guy who doesn't just talk trash on the Internet. His name's Jeremiah Heaton and he travels in person to Bir Tawil. His motivation is odd, and it's pretty noble because ever since she was a wee tyke, his daughter Emily had been obsessed with the idea of becoming a real princess.

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[A]

Everybody knows Shaq, but off camera, he's just a regular guy.

[D]

People never believe me when I say I'm just like them. I take out the tr, do dishes and I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or osa. And a lot of adults with obesity also struggle with moderate to severe osa. You know, those scary breathing interruptions during sleep, the loud snoring, choking and daytime fatigue. I knew I had to talk to my doctor. Don't sleep on the symptoms. Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by.

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And Doug. Here we have the Limu Imu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual.

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Fascinating.

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It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

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Uh, limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

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Cut the camera. They see us.

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[A]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty Savings.

[B]

Very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company. Affiliates excludes Massachusetts. I mean, okay, that's everybody's little daughter, I think. Up to an age, right? Man, dude seemed he's got Amelia Bedelia disorder. He's taking it very literally.

[A]

Oh, what a great reference. I recently reread an Amelia Bedelia book. This guy Jeremiah, he says, or his official reasoning is Bir Tawil is my chance to make my daughter Emily's dream a reality. So as a birthday present, daughter o mine, I am traveling to Bir Tawil. I'm going to take ownership of this disputed land, this terra nullius no one desires. I'm going to found a new country. We'll call it the Kingdom of North Sudan. I'm going to install myself as head of state in a burst of humility. And then I will make you my daughter. An actual princess.

[B]

Yeah, and she also gets a pony.

[A]

And she gets a pony. All the Barbie dolls.

[B]

Yeah, it's a lot, man. This is. This guy. I don't know what he was going for quite here. I mean, I'm all about the love of a father for their offspring. This seems like it's taking it in an odd direction. He did in fact, fact plant a Flag and started a campaign to raise US$250,000 in order to help develop this new nation. Seems low for developing of a nation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In PR terms, this was an absolute brutal miscue.

[A]

It was terrible. It was so bad. It was on the level of that time during the COVID 19 lockdown where a bunch of celebrities started singing that song together. Remember?

[B]

I don't remember which song it was, but it was definitely cringe.

[A]

Yeah, it was pretty tone deaf.

[B]

It was a We Are the World esque situation, but even more tone deaf.

[A]

Yeah, it was an attempt. It was a swing and a miss. It was a big whiff. And so was Jeremiah Heaton's attempt here. Now, we haven't spoken with Mr. Heaton ourselves, but what we can see is that instead of people contributing toward this US$250,000 goal, instead folks from across the planet united as haters and critics. They said, you are not being cool. This is not about your daughter. Dude, you're trying to bring back colonialism. You are a 21st century imperialist and.

[B]

Perhaps even a 21st century schizoid man. Because he was absolutely tripping. This is a wild, outlandish idea that went absolutely nowher. I just don't get it. It's just. What was he going for here? Do you think? It was really just to impress his kid? There's so many better ways of going about that.

[A]

I don't know. It reminds me to. This will be familiar to any of our friends in the audience who might have a well meaning but tone deaf relative or parent. Because sometimes you get that present where. Oh, I'm thinking in particular, I won't give names, but I'm thinking in particular of a. A old friend of mine. Her parents have been separated for a long time, right? But the dad and the mom are still in their daughter's life and the dad is so tone deaf that because his daughter, like back when she was six or eight years old, said she liked leopard print as a child. Every time her birthday comes up, this guy just gets her something vaguely leopard themed. And she's talked to him about it.

[B]

Oh, I was gonna say she maybe didn't even have the heart to tell him, but yeah, I got super, super bizarre. I get it. This is like the most to the nth degree version of that kind of well meaningness. And I would argue per the Internet, this maybe not even well meaning. Like maybe there's something else going on here, right?

[A]

The official reason versus unofficial 100%.

[B]

The lore, the myth making of it all the only structured and ongoing claim to this region or this strip of no man's land comes from the Prince. Actual facts. Prince, to quote Lauren Vogelbaum. Giovanni Caporaso Gottlieb.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. Of beer to Will if you ask him. Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So unlike the more symbolic or the more Internet driven claims of the past, this guy is really putting the work in. He must have the capital to burn. He has created this initiative that includes a theoretical framework of governance. It has a resident population and it has people who claim that they are diplomats. They even put their money where their mouth is. And they're calling themselves the Principality of Bir2wilt. And they submitted a request earlier this year in January of 2025, to be admitted to the United nations as an observer state. They really want that legitimacy.

[B]

They just want to audit, basically. You know, just sit in the back of the class and just check it out.

[A]

Yeah, they just want to be in the room, you know, and we see that with. Actually, we see that with a lot of emergent would be countries.

[B]

I did not know.

[A]

Micronations. Yes. That's how you like, get your foot in the door.

[B]

You just hang out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Network. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So later you can say, oh, I am an actual state, because you guys let me hang out in the back. Remember, I didn't vote, I didn't make trouble.

[B]

I didn't get a grade. But, you know, I learned the gist.

[A]

I learned the gist. So make it official. This is the most formal and ambitious action ever taken regarding this territory since the late 1800s, early 1900s.

[B]

Well, and it does have citizenry. It has a population. According to the 2024 census, the principality counts 3,030 citizens, many of whom belong to. To the Abadba and Bashiri people, nomadic ethnic groups native to the region. Gottlieb is recognized by local leaders as the head of state. And the principality maintains a loose administrative structure that's centered around its Capital, Marianne Station 1. That's a sexy name for a capital.

[A]

It's a weird name, right?

[B]

Where's Marianne Station 2.

[A]

Exactly right. It's like how we have. How we have certain restaurants here in Atlanta, typically Hong Kong Cafe. Yeah, the Third, or Chin Chin Tu. We used to hang out at all the time after work or Pho Dai Loi number two. It's very strange. So the territory does make money, or at least they publish some loose financials. And their primary source of revenue is tourism, especially from people who say, I want to visit a place that technically isn't anywhere.

[B]

It's like that place where all the states intersect. You know that little triangle people like to go to on goofy road trips? Not goofy. It's absolutely a viable place to visit. But it does seem like one of those, you know, like families in the Winnebago going across the country and checking out the place where all the states meet and then going to see Rock City.

[A]

A little bit kitschy, right? We're talking about Lookout Mountain in specific. And if the weather is nice, you can see technically a lot of states. But bring quarters for the binoculars. That's how they get you.

[B]

Nothing's for free.

[A]

Yeah, not in the US now, the Principality of Beard. To Will, this would be nation, this pretender to the international order. It says, look, we're neutral. We're multi ethnic, we're multi religious. We are above all peaceful. We want to coexist. They have a coexistence bumper sticker on all their cards. What of those facts was made up?

[B]

Well, that'll be up to you ridiculous historians to guess which one. And if you ask any official source, they will tell you the principality does not technically or legally in fact exist. But here we are.

[A]

Yep, history is weird, folks. And real estate belief is a hell of a drug. Yeah, history is weird. Belief is a hell of a drug. And real estate is downright ridiculous. We wanted to ask you a favor here as we're getting toward the end of this, this episode and indeed the end of the calendar year. If you feel so moved, folks, if you are thinking, oh gosh, I'd love to give the guys little present for the holiday season, why not just pop over to your podcast platform of choice, give us five stars if you can and give us a quick quirky shout out to one of your favorite episodes. There we go. I think that's fair to ask, is that right?

[B]

Absolutely. It's the least you can do.

[A]

Well, we, we sure appreciate your time folks. We know things are always crazy now and you know there's that old idiom about how or that old figure of speech about how people often don't want to live in times where history is being made. But we are here with you and we can't thank you enough for tuning in. Also, we'd like to thank Our super producer, Mr. Max Williams and our mysterious in house composer, Alex the Nomad Williams.

[B]

Oh yeah, very much a nomadic cat that Alex Williams. Hope to see him around these parts very soon. Huge thanks to Christopher Osiodis and Eve Jeff Coates here in spirit, Jonathan Strickland, the Quizter, AJ Bahamas Jacobs, the Puzzler.

[A]

As well as Dr. Rachel, Big Spinach, Lance and the rude dudes over at Ridiculous Crime. If you dig us, you'll love them. So tell them we sent you over there and I don't know, what do you think? Road trip Beer to Will.

[B]

Road rules baby. See you next time folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows in the.

[C]

Heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming [e-mail] Dominate every match with with next level speed, seamless streaming and performance that won't quit. Push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processors for the next era of gaming. Upgrade to smooth high quality streaming with Intel Wi Fi 6e and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. Win the tech search power [e-mail] lenovo.

[A]

Lenovo everybody knows Shaq, but off camera, he's just a regular guy.

[D]

People never believe me when I say I'm just like them. I take out the trash, do dishes and I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or osa. And a lot of adults with obesity also struggle with moderate to severe osa. You know those scary breathing interruptions during sleep, the loud snoring, choking and daytime fatigue. I knew I had to talk to my doctor. Don't sleep on the symptoms. Learn more at don'tsleeponosa.com this information is.

[B]

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