CLASSIC: A Dead Pope Goes To Court

Summary

Ridiculous History Podcast Summary: "CLASSIC: A Dead Pope Goes To Court"

Published on May 3, 2025 by iHeartPodcasts

Introduction

In the episode titled "A Dead Pope Goes To Court," hosts Ben Bolin and Noel Brown delve into one of history's most bizarre ecclesiastical events: the trial of a deceased pope. Anchored in the tumultuous period of the Holy Roman Empire during the 9th century, this episode uncovers the intricate interplay of power, politics, and piety that led to the infamous Cadaver Synod.

Historical Background

Ben Bolin opens the discussion by setting the stage within the Holy Roman Empire of the 8th and 9th centuries, a time rife with corruption and political maneuvering. He references an article from AllThatIsInteresting.com, aptly titled Better Know a Pope Stephen VI, the Grave Robber, which highlights the chaotic nature of the era, often termed the "Pornocracy." This term underscores the pervasive corruption that plagued the Catholic Church and its leadership.

Formosus: The Controversial Pope

The narrative centers on Pope Formosus, a figure whose ecclesiastical career was marked by both fervent missionary work and significant controversy. Formosus, originally a cardinal bishop, was excommunicated by Pope John VIII in 875 for allegedly holding multiple bishoprics simultaneously—a violation of Church law aimed at preventing excessive consolidation of power within the clergy (00:19).

Despite his excommunication, Formosus's influence did not wane. By 878, the Church reinstated him after he pledged never to return to Rome or resume his priestly duties. However, the political landscape shifted drastically with the assassination of Pope John VIII in 878, leading to a rapid succession of popes and setting the stage for Formosus's eventual rise to the papacy in 891.

Stephen VI and the Cadaver Synod

Formosus's papacy was short-lived, lasting from October 6, 891, until his death in 896. His tenure was marred by conflicts with Guy III of Spoleto, the Holy Roman Emperor, which ultimately led to his paralysis and death. Following Formosus's demise, Pope Boniface VI briefly assumed the papacy before being succeeded by Stephen VI in April 896.

Stephen VI, driven by animosity towards Formosus and influenced by political factions aligned against him, orchestrated the unprecedented Cadaver Synod. This macabre event involved exhuming Formosus's corpse, dressing it in papal vestments, and placing it on trial for the very charges that had led to his excommunication (19:36).

The Cadaver Synod Proceedings

During the trial, Stephen VI vehemently denounced Formosus, accusing him of heresy and violating canonical laws. Ben Bolin humorously remarks, “Formosus had to break into howling Monday and order a parade.” The proceedings were a public spectacle meant to disgrace Formosus posthumously and assert Stephen VI's authority.

Despite the corpse's inability to defend itself, the synod found Formosus guilty. His papal vestments were torn off, fingers used for consecration were amputated, and his remains were subjected to further indignities, including eventual disposal in a river—a detail later embellished by myths of fisherman retrievals (25:26).

Aftermath and Consequences

The Cadaver Synod had profound repercussions. Stephen VI's extreme actions alienated many within the Church and nobility, leading to his imprisonment and subsequent strangulation in 897. Two years later, Pope Boniface VII nullified the synod's decrees, restoring Formosus's reputation and granting him a proper burial in 897 (27:48).

This episode highlighted the severe instability within the Church's hierarchy and the extreme measures leaders would take to consolidate power and settle personal vendettas.

Analysis and Insights

Ben Bolin and Noel Brown reflect on the Cadaver Synod as a testament to the lengths to which religious and political leaders would go to maintain authority. They ponder whether Stephen VI's actions were driven by genuine doctrinal concerns or purely political motivations to undermine Formosus's legacy and influence.

The hosts emphasize the absurdity of holding a deceased individual accountable in such a manner, noting, “We've never put a corpse on trial. You know what I mean? So go us” (28:17). This event serves as a stark reminder of the fragile interplay between faith and power, and how quickly ecclesiastical proceedings can descend into theatrical displays of authority.

Conclusion

In "A Dead Pope Goes To Court," Ben Bolin and Noel Brown unravel one of the Catholic Church's most surreal and disturbing episodes. Through engaging storytelling and critical analysis, they shed light on the Cadaver Synod's significance in Church history, illustrating the volatile mix of religion, politics, and personal vendettas.

The episode invites listeners to reflect on how historical events, no matter how ridiculous, shape the institutions and beliefs that persist today. As the hosts humorously suggest, the story underscores the importance of understanding the past's complexities to appreciate the present fully.

Notable Quotes

• Ben Bolin [00:19]: "We're diving into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization."
• Noel Brown [01:29]: "A dead pope goes to court. It's like Mr. Smith goes to Court Washington or something like that."
• Ben Bolin [10:10]: "No one man should have all that power. The clock's ticking."
• Noel Brown [19:38]: "So he calls one of those sort of like a king's moot in RPG games."
• Ben Bolin [25:26]: "So Formosus found guilty, and this is a very undignified way for a Pope to act, at least I would think so in the modern day."
• Noel Brown [28:43]: "You know, I'll tell you, Ben, the fact that we're not perfect is what makes this show work."

Further Engagement

Listeners are encouraged to explore more about papal history and other unbelievable historical events by following Ridiculous History on social media platforms such as Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. The community page, "Ridiculous Historians," offers a space to discuss and discover other strange and fascinating stories from the past.

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This summary captures the essence of the "A Dead Pope Goes To Court" episode, highlighting key discussions, insights, and historical contexts while providing notable quotes with proper attribution and timestamps.

Transcript

[Ben Bolin]

Fellow ridiculous historians, Catholic and non Catholic alike, thank you so much for tuning into this weekend's classic episode. I am Ben. That's our super producer, Max Noel. There's a lot of Catholicism in the news recently.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. Or a hat or whatever. Yeah, whatever you like. It's true. We've got a conclave, a real life conclave going down as we speak. The process wherein a new pope is selected. RIP Pope Francis. He's the good Pope many have described him as. Or maybe that's just me, but yeah, it's kind of a big deal.

[Ben Bolin]

Yeah. And tune into our episode on the prophecy of the popes from our peer podcast stuff they don't want you to know where. Yeah, we go deep into some lore of the Catholic Church, one of the most important, I would say one of the most important spiritual and geopolitical entities on the planet as we speak. They're no stranger to scandal and controversy. And back in. Oh, gosh, what was it, 2018? Now, you and I learned about a thoroughly ridiculous courtroom situation.

[Noel Brown]

Absolutely. The title says it all. And it reminds me of like a classic film or something from the 50s. A dead pope goes to court. It's like Mr. Smith goes to Court Washington or something like that. Yeah.

[Ben Bolin]

Yes. So listen in, folks. Join us to learn what drove Pope Stephen vi, also sometimes called Pope Stephen vii.

[Noel Brown]

Pope Stephen is just funny in and of itself. I don't know why. Let's just call him Pope Steve while we're at.

[Ben Bolin]

Pope Steve sounds like a guy who has his street name. Anyway, true story. One time this dude dug up one of his predecessors who had long passed from this mortal veil and put the guy's body on trial.

[Noel Brown]

Not weird at all. Totally normal.

[Ben Bolin]

Nothing weird. Super norms.

[Noel Brown]

Let's roll the ridiculous tape.

[Ben Bolin]

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[Noel Brown]

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[Ben Bolin]

Good job.

[Noel Brown]

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[Casey Pegram]

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[Ben Bolin]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Okay. Usually when we begin the show, we like to have some sort of bit or some sort of reference, some sort of tangential thing. But. But this story is so strange that I feel like we. I don't know how we open. I'm just laughing to myself, man, are.

[Noel Brown]

You at a loss for bits?

[Ben Bolin]

I'm usually. I've got a couple of back pocket.

[Noel Brown]

Bits chomping at the bit.

[Ben Bolin]

Right. But I'm not bitter about this.

[Noel Brown]

Hey.

[Ben Bolin]

Hey. You're Noel.

[Noel Brown]

I am Noel. And you, sir, are Ben, the Bitmeister Bolin.

[Ben Bolin]

Oh, thank you. Thank you, Noel. And we are joined with our super producer, Casey Pegram. I think none of us are Catholic. Right.

[Noel Brown]

I went to a Catholic mass like a couple times when I was a kid and I thought it was very interesting. There was like a dude with a robe waving around this thing with smoke coming out of it. A thurible chain. A what?

[Ben Bolin]

A thurible.

[Noel Brown]

Really?

[Ben Bolin]

Yeah, I think that's the word. Yeah. The incense holder. Yeah. So it's funny you mentioned that the first time I ever saw a Catholic mass, I was living in Guatemala and my Spanish wasn't very good, let alone my Latin. So I was completely out of my element. And I thought it was fascinating. You know what I mean?

[Noel Brown]

Absolutely.

[Ben Bolin]

So you're probably wondering why we're mentioning Catholicism here. Ridiculous historians. It's because our show today takes us to a very, very strange episode in Catholic history. And for a long time on another show, we do stuff they don't want you to know. We had a running character that you used to do, Noel, which was the Pope.

[Noel Brown]

El Popa.

[Ben Bolin]

Yes, yes, that's it. Welcome back.

[Noel Brown]

But then I kind of came to my attention, maybe just through my own paranoia, that maybe it's not okay. To do a voice for the Pope that sounds like a weird strangulated Muppet.

[Ben Bolin]

Well, maybe. I mean, maybe it had its time, but I thought there was some good work there.

[Noel Brown]

Who's that guy that does that podcast? You made it, Weird. Pete Holmes. That's Casey on the case. Yeah, Pete Holmes. I saw him do stand up in LA at Uprising Brigade one time, and he had a really good bit about how, as a culture, we have this bizarre blind spot in our idea of racism, and it's for Italians, because it's somehow okay to go like, hey, it's a me, a Mario, like a pizza pie or whatever. That's okay. But anyway, other, you know, doing an Asian voice or something or that's right out. That is not cool. Yeah, and he made a. I don't know. I thought it was a really good point.

[Ben Bolin]

That is a good point. I wonder if it holds the same in other countries where English is the primary language. Like, do people in the uk, if you're listening to the uk, do you folks do the Italian voice? Is it just an American thing? Are we the jerks?

[Noel Brown]

I think we might be.

[Ben Bolin]

We might be, but we're not going to be as big of jerks as the Popes of the past have been.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, man. The past Popes, my friend. So here's the thing. There was a time when what we know is the Holy Roman Empire was fresh and young and a new thing. Right. And this was in the 8th and 9th centuries. And really great article from AllThatIsInteresting.com called Better Know a Pope Stephen VI, the Grave Robber, outlines quite beautifully the life and times of this papal jerk.

[Ben Bolin]

Yeah, yeah. This period of time, it's just so rife with corruption. That's. That's the best way to say it. And there's a term that you and I learned that later historians would use to. To describe this period between, like, 8th and 9th century A.D. holy Roman Empire. Right, yeah.

[Noel Brown]

It was the pornocracy. Right?

[Ben Bolin]

Pornocracy, yeah.

[Noel Brown]

So, you know, Google that if you wish, but. Yeah, we can't guarantee that it won't get you in trouble on your work computer. But we're not talking about Stephen VI right away.

[Ben Bolin]

Not just yet.

[Noel Brown]

No. We're talking about another Pope named Formosus, which is a great Pope name.

[Ben Bolin]

I feel like it's a. It sounds like a Sith Lord's name. In Star wars, it'd be like Darth Formosis. So, Formosis name aside, he had quite a history with the Catholic Church. Eventually, he becomes Pope but before he becomes pope, we have to talk about what happened when he was cardinal bishop. Right. Because he had sown the seeds of his later problems in his time as a cardinal bishop.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. Because he was also a very, very successful missionary. And those Bulgars that you mentioned earlier, he was converting them to Catholicism left and right. And he was actually accused, accused by the sitting pope at the time, who was a guy named Pope John viii, of breaking a law of the Roman Catholic Church that prevented anyone from being a bishop in more than one place. And because of his missionary work, that had sort of could have been perceived as having happened. And so he actually was excommunicated.

[Ben Bolin]

He was. He was excommunicated by John viii because the rumor was that he was a bishop of Porto in 864, but then also a bishop in Bulgaria a little bit later on.

[Noel Brown]

Right, yeah. And the thing was, the reason that that law had been passed, and I think it was a pretty new law, was because we talked about those fractured little fiefdoms throughout Europe. Those were a problem because there was division within the church. There was division culturally and ideologically. And the Roman Catholic Church did not want to feed into that anymore by having any one man in the church have too much power over too many areas, because that could cause a problem.

[Ben Bolin]

No one man should have all that power. Casey, can we cut to that clip real quick?

[Noel Brown]

No one man should have all that power. The clock's ticking.

[Ben Bolin]

I think it's appropriate. We don't know whether Formosis would have dug that song, but maybe he would. We don't know much about the guy's musical taste, so he ultimately is, as you said, Noel, excommunicated because he had wronged John VIII. And on April 18th of 875, Pope John VIII called a synod, a synod, and requested that all these other papal officials return to Rome. Synod is just a fancy word for this meeting of the clergy.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, it's like a brain trust, like some sort of think tank.

[Ben Bolin]

Yeah, yeah. And there can be different versions of it, but remember that word because it becomes very important later. So Formosus, still in France, says, ah, I'm not going to go to that. So since he doesn't comply, he's removed from the ranks of the clergy. He's excommunicated. And the reason given is that he is excommunicated because he deserted his diocese without the permission of the Pope. And that double bishoping or double dipping bishop. I like that. Double dipping bishop.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. And he also openly aspired for the papacy, whatever that means. Like he campaigned for it or what? I don't know. It seems like he was railroaded quite a bit by dudes that did not like the fact that he was kind of better than them. I don't know in terms of just like his goodness, because I'm not reading a whole lot of corruption, actual corruption.

[Ben Bolin]

On his side.

[Noel Brown]

On his side. It seems like it's most of the other.

[Ben Bolin]

The other folks just like a lot of politicking.

[Noel Brown]

Very much so. It's sort of like that second Star wars prequel.

[Ben Bolin]

Double Dippin Bishop.

[Noel Brown]

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[Ben Bolin]

Good job.

[Noel Brown]

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[Casey Pegram]

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[Ben Bolin]

So this is announced in 872. In July, it's formally announced that Formosis and several other people are excommunicated. But a few Years later, in 878, the sentence of excommunication was withdrawn after Formosus promised to never again return to Rome, nor to exercise his priestly functions ever for the rest of his life.

[Noel Brown]

He agreed, but didn't. Isn't this when John VIII got murdered?

[Ben Bolin]

Yeah, John the eighth assassinated. Right, Noel. But how did it happen? Was it one of those shady like, may have been an accident or was it pretty clearly a murder?

[Noel Brown]

Oh, no, no, I do not think he was. He was beloved by the people because he was first poisoned. Someone bashed his head in with the hammer because the poison was taking too long. So then, you know, then we end up in this kind of like really rough and tumble period where there's like several popes in between him and ultimately when our guy Formosus becomes the Pope. So immediately after this we have a quick turnaround of popes. We've got Marinus I. And then it's quickly followed by a guy named St. Adrian III. And he kind of thinks better of Formosus and overturns all of those penalties that he had to. He had to suffer. Right. So he's now allowed. Not only is he allowed to come back to Rome and keep practicing what he's doing, he actually becomes the pope, the Next pope, in 891.

[Ben Bolin]

Yes. He is unanimously elected the pope on October 6, 891. And this ushers in a weird period for the popes.

[Noel Brown]

Who votes for the pope, Ben?

[Ben Bolin]

We do not, unless we become cardinals in the church.

[Noel Brown]

So if Formosus was so unpopular to the point where he got excommunicated and banned for life, but then was unanimously elected Pope, it really just goes to show there were some serious, like, factions. I mean, this whole idea of the splintered loyalties is on full display here. And I guess after our guy, John VIII got, you know, clubbed to death, the tide turned in his favor. And he served as Pope for, I think, a good five years. And in that five years, he accomplished some pretty cool stuff.

[Ben Bolin]

Yeah. I believe we mentioned earlier, he was Pope from October 6, 891, until his death in 896. And he didn't get a particularly great situation, you know what I mean, when he became Pope. And obviously, as you can tell from the timeline, he did not serve as Pope for very long, but he did try his best to navigate the chaotic geopolitical issues of the day. The problem is he became engrossed in some real beefs with some powerful enemies. One of the most prominent is a guy named Guy III of Spoleto, the Holy Roman Emperor. And started as sort of a. Just like a somewhat distant struggle for control, but then it was building quickly into open warfare.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, yeah, it's true. And this guy. This guy, Guy of Spoleto was on the other end of that open warfare. And Formosus actually ended up having to amass an army to go to war with him. And when he did this, as he was doing this, rather, he. He died. He got paralyzed, quote, struck by paralysis, according to this article in all that is interesting dot com. And he passed away. And so, guys, problems were resolved. And the problems were. We talked about earlier how there was a lot of vying for control and cash flow from these Holy Roman brothels. And that was kind of at the center of this. See, there's the thing. I said that Formosus didn't really seem to have too much dirt on him, but it did seem like he was still kind of running the numbers and playing the game in terms of, like, where this money went. But I think he just didn't give the right bishops the cash. And he became sort of Persona non grata for the ones that were amassed behind Guy.

[Ben Bolin]

And so Formosus dies, the next pope is. Is a guy named Pope Boniface the Sixth. And this Pope is a native of Rome, and he is pope in April of 896. He was mainly elected because there were a ton of riots right after the death of Pope Formosus. And after a pontificate of 15 days, he either died of the gout or he was forcibly ejected to make way for a character named Stephen vi who he mentioned at the beginning. Thanks for sticking around, folks.

[Noel Brown]

We got there, we did get there. A lot of ground to cover between there and here, but yeah, Stephen VI is sort of our papal Looney Tune in today's episode. He had a lot of problems with Formosas in the first place because he did not like the way he interpreted doctrine, that idea of the way the Godhead and all of that. Ben, can you give us a little more on that?

[Ben Bolin]

Yeah, it's like we said earlier, there's a difference here in the nature of the Holy Spirit, how it relates to the Trinity, how it relates to the Godhead. And without getting too far in the weeds here, it sounds very technical, but it's an argument that they took very, very, very, very seriously. Gravely seriously, one might say. But the truth is that we don't know too much about Stephen's early life. We don't know what his name originally was, we don't know what year he was born, but we do know a little bit about his life. It seems that he was the son of a priest. When he attained adulthood, he went into the church, but it was actually Formosus who made him a bishop. And he was made a bishop under pressure from Guy three of Spoleto.

[Noel Brown]

Ah, yes. So here's how it goes. Stephen VI becomes the Pope, and for whatever reason, like, I don't even understand what the point of this is. I mean, I think that's the whole seed of ridiculousness in the story, is he was so angry, angry with Formosis, who, as we've mentioned, has died at this point, that he decided it would be a good idea to hold another one of those synods. Right?

[Ben Bolin]

Synod. How do you say it?

[Noel Brown]

Synod. Sinod doesn't matter. Synod sounds very sci fi. So I'm gonna say it like that. There we go. So he calls one of those sort of like a king's moot in RPG games. And he has the corpse of said pope dug up and dressed up in the papal robes and sat in the papal throne and tried for all of those things that he got reversed.

[Ben Bolin]

Yeah.

[Noel Brown]

Remember the excommunication and the whole like being a bishop in two places and all that. Stephen did not forget those things. And here's the thing. You can look at one of two ways that he was legitimately, conscientiously outraged about these things and that he would not let those heresies stand. Or he was trying to get a little juice from all of those political factions that were anti formosis. As we know, there were many. And there's a couple more reasons I want to point out before we get into the next bit of the story as to why that was. Introducing Instagram teen accounts. A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on. Alright, buckle up.

[Ben Bolin]

Good job.

[Noel Brown]

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[Casey Pegram]

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[Ben Bolin]

If you're listening to this by a computer or a desktop or you're on your phone somewhere safe, go ahead and pull up this fantastic painting by Jean Paul Laurens called Pope Formosus and Stephen vii. That's the same guy as Stephen VI is a whole different thing. But that's the original title of the painting. So, Noel, what are those other reasons?

[Noel Brown]

Well, in addition to the whole brothel debacle and you know, brothel Bokle. Yeah, exactly. He also, he just got embroiled in a lot of geopolitical disputes that, you know, resulted in people gaining and losing a lot of money. One was he actually intervened in Constantinople where a patriarch named Photius I had been ousted and also the son of Emperor Basil I, a guy named Stephen, had taken his place. It's a different Stephen.

[Ben Bolin]

He also refused to reinstate people who had been ordained by the patriarch by Photius I.

[Noel Brown]

That's right. Okay, Ben, so I sort of glossed Over. We both a little bit glossed over his kind of disagreements with Guy the Third of Spoleto, who was the Holy Roman Emperor. That's an interesting thing about the Holy Roman Empire, right? You have. You have this Holy Roman Emperor and then you have the Pope. And they're kind of like, the Pope is sort of the. The. The spiritual wing, and then the Emperor is the political head of state or whatever. But he did wanted to overthrow Guy III of Spoleto, so he actually supported factions that were going against him, and he actually convinced Arnulf of Carinthia to invade Rome and take control of Italy from Spoleto. So, you know, and then Spoleto was kind of pals with our boy Stephen vi. So there we go. Does that sum it up in a nutshell?

[Ben Bolin]

I think we're getting close. I think that's. That's good.

[Noel Brown]

Just in terms of why someone would be so angry with this man after he was already dead that he decided to dig up his rotting bones from the ground, dress him up in this pageantry and shove him in a chair. Chair. And try him for heresy.

[Ben Bolin]

Let me. Yeah, let me paint some more of the picture here about how this trial actually went. And I hope you guys can hear the air quotes when I say trial. So there's a great article on this. I believe it's from National Geographic. Vengeance at the Vatican, the cadaver Snod. And this is seen as the lowest point in the continual chaos of 9th century Italy. So there's another player that enters the field here who maybe doesn't get as much mention as they should. Guy iii, we mentioned he had sons, Right? He had a son named Lambert. And Lambert ended up teaming up with the Pope Stephen to create this PR farce. Because Lambert said when he was talking to Stephen vi, he said, we have to condemn Formosus actions and tarnish his reputation. And it has to be in public so that his followers can see it. And it has to feel official. So it has to happen under canon law and be held before the papal curia and Roman nobility. And we're going to have Formosus himself attend. So, Noel, as you said, they dressed him up, they exhumed him, they put him on trial. They even had someone who was supposed to speak for him.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, like as a lawyer.

[Ben Bolin]

Yeah. Against those accusations, however, the poor SAP didn't have much luck because Pope Stephen was just continually screaming at this corpse. It's a very undignified way for a Pope to act, at least I would think so in the modern day.

[Noel Brown]

No, it's super. Just macabre, too. And of course, you know, like you had at chance, poor SAP, he was found guilty, and they punished him with something called Damnatio Memoriae, which means condemnation of memory in Latin. And it basically means that his tenure as Pope was like Men in Black. Mind erased from history books only doesn't seem to have taken, because we're talking about it.

[Ben Bolin]

Right. Erased from history. Thou shalt not speak his name. And there are all these different desecrations they did to his body, too. They tore his papal vestments off. They cut off the three fingers on his hand that he used to consecrate.

[Noel Brown]

You know the ones.

[Ben Bolin]

Yeah. And they threw his body in a river. And later, I think a monk or a fisherman found it.

[Noel Brown]

I think the river thing even came a little later. They originally just, like, buried him in the ground somewhere, like an unmarked grave. And then Pope Jonathan Vill thought better of it and was like, you know what? That's too good for that. So. And so let's dig him up and just toss him in the drink.

[Ben Bolin]

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that, because our sources show us that first, yeah, he was dressed in common peon clothes and then buried in an unmarked grave, a pauper's grave. And then the story is that they decided that wasn't good enough. Right. So they dug him up again and threw him in the river. However, it seems like that part, the story about a monk or a fisherman pulling the Pope from the river might be a myth. But we do know the story of the body doesn't stop there. This is seen as an act of very bad taste to almost everybody involved. You know, it's kind of a wake up call where they're thinking, we're getting ridiculous. I know we want to kill each other, but this is a little too far.

[Noel Brown]

It's a bit much.

[Ben Bolin]

And so Stephen Six ends up imprisoned a few months afterwards, and he is strangled to death in jail. And two years after that, another Pope reinstates Pope Formosus and bans any further trial for dead popes. So it came to pass that Pope Formosus is buried in 1897 with full Christian honors, which seems like a heck of a ride.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, it's sort of not. I mean, I guess it's a pretty good consolation prize, but Guy really went through the wringer.

[Ben Bolin]

I just have this vision in my head that I can't erase the memory, oddly enough. Or this fanciful notion of people having to sit and watch this because they had to sit and Observe. It's a trial.

[Noel Brown]

And do you think they were into it, or do you think they were like, I don't know about this.

[Ben Bolin]

I don't know. I mean, surely it's like a warning to some of Formosis followers.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, I guess so, because again, like, he definitely had some, and, you know, there's nothing that I was able to find about them, like some sort of mass execution of anyone that was in his camp or whatever. So maybe this was their way of, like, you know, let this be a warning to you for motions.

[Ben Bolin]

Yeah. And you know what, man? We're not perfect. No one is. But I can say that we have never put a corpse on trial. You know what I mean? So go us.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. You know, I'll tell you, Ben, the fact that we're not perfect is what makes this show work.

[Ben Bolin]

Let's hope so. And we hope you enjoyed hearing this story. We've talked about it off air, folks. We could probably do an entire podcast on popes, a pope cast, but that's a different show, right? Also, we're trademarking popecast, if that's not already a thing. We just called it. We called dibs. Does that count?

[Noel Brown]

Sure.

[Ben Bolin]

Have we called dibs on air?

[Noel Brown]

Dibs is a thing. That's a thing. There's rules surrounding it. Yeah, it's part of the Geneva Convention.

[Ben Bolin]

Yeah, there we go. So dibs on pope cast. But write to us and let us know what strange stories you learned about when you've read up on papal history, because we assure you there are multitudes of strange stories about popes. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. We highly recommend our community page, ridiculous Historians, where you can meet and speak with some of your fellow listeners. There is a pope cast, by the way. Damn it.

[Noel Brown]

Very disappointing installment of Casey on the case.

[Ben Bolin]

It was too. You know what? Popecast was too good to not be a thing.

[Noel Brown]

Of course.

[Ben Bolin]

It was like a podcast. Icarus. We flew too close to the sun.

[Noel Brown]

And if you want to fly too close to the podcast sun, too, and you don't want to do any of that social media stuff, you can write us an [e-mail] but most importantly, please join us for our next episode where we talk about spooky Filipino vampire alien monster creatures that haunt the hills.

[Ben Bolin]

I am so excited. I'm so excited. Thank you to super producer Casey Pegram. Thanks to our research associate for this episode, Eve's Jeffcoat. Thanks to Alex. Alex Williams, who composed this track. And hey, Noel, thanks to you.

[Noel Brown]

Here's looking at you, Ben. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Casey Pegram]

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