CLASSIC: Angry Feds and Deadly Booze: The Story of the Chemists' War

Summary

Ridiculous History: CLASSIC: Angry Feds and Deadly Booze: The Story of the Chemists' War

Hosts: Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown
Release Date: April 5, 2025
Production: iHeartPodcasts

---

Introduction

In this classic episode of Ridiculous History, hosts Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown delve into the tumultuous era of Prohibition in the United States, uncovering the dark and often deadly measures the federal government employed to curb alcohol consumption. Titled “Angry Feds and Deadly Booze: The Story of the Chemists' War,” the episode explores the unintended and tragic consequences of the government's attempts to regulate alcohol through toxic additives.

---

Prohibition and the 18th Amendment

Ben and Noel begin by setting the stage with the passage of the 18th Amendment in 1919, which formally initiated Prohibition on January 17, 1920. This constitutional change aimed to eliminate the manufacture, sale, and transportation of intoxicating liquors, under the belief that it would bolster the nation's moral fiber and reduce crime (05:16).

Noel (05:50): “There’s no question that it was kind of a puritanical way of looking at things. It was this slightly misguided notion that getting rid of the Devil's juice was gonna make everyone into good people.”

The hosts critique the utopian expectations of Prohibition, highlighting how authorities envisioned a society free from alcohol-induced moral decay and economic decline, only to find these predictions starkly unfulfilled.

---

Governmental Interventions: Methanol and Toxic Additives

The core of the episode focuses on the federal government's strategy to render industrial alcohol unfit for consumption by adding methanol—a toxic variant of alcohol. This move was intended to differentiate recreational alcoholic beverages from industrial-grade products, thereby reducing alcohol consumption (08:02).

Ben (08:29): “Due to Prohibition, a lot of quality control just took a dive.”

Noel elaborates on how bootleggers exploited this regulation, sourcing industrial alcohol and attempting to remove the toxic methanol through redistillation, a process that was both costly and dangerous.

---

The Chemists' War

The term “Chemists' War” refers to the clandestine battle between government-imposed restrictions and the bootleggers’ efforts to produce safe alcohol. Ben references Charles Norris' essay, “Our National Experiment in Extermination,” which quantifies the scale of illicit alcohol production, estimating that approximately 10 million gallons yearly were diverted from legal channels to illegal distribution (10:08).

Noel (10:08): “This is something I didn’t know before. They call this the Chemists' War for a good reason.”

The discussion underscores how this war was akin to a precursor to modern illegal drug conflicts, with chemists playing pivotal roles in attempting to mitigate the harmful effects of adulterated alcohol.

---

Health Consequences and Public Safety

Ben and Noel delve into the dire health repercussions faced by consumers. The addition of methanol and other toxic substances led to widespread alcohol poisoning, paralysis, and even blindness among drinkers. They recount the case of Ginger Jake, a so-called medicinal alcohol containing tricresyl phosphate, which induced neurological damage and paralysis—coined the “Jake Walk” due to its distinctive gait (12:15).

Noel (12:15): “It took time for it to take hold and eventually cause all kinds of leg muscular pains and weakness, leading to paralysis.”

Interestingly, the hosts highlight how blues musicians like Isham Bracey and Tommy Johnson documented these tragedies in their songs, serving as inadvertent whistleblowers to the harmful effects of adulterated alcohol.

---

Socioeconomic Impact and Organized Crime

The episode explores the socioeconomic divides exacerbated by Prohibition, noting that while affluent individuals could afford imported, safer liquors, the lower classes were forced to consume dangerous, street-made bootleg alcohol. This disparity fueled organized crime, as gangs controlled the distribution networks to supply the masses, often neglecting quality control to maximize profits (15:39).

Ben (15:36): “They were more likely to be involved in organized crime, controlling the supply and distribution of alcohol.”

The government's inability to curb demand and effectively regulate the black market led to an increase in both alcoholism and violent crime, contradicting the original objectives of Prohibition.

---

The 1926 Christmas Eve Poisonings

A pivotal moment discussed is the 1926 Christmas Eve incident at Bellevue Hospital in New York, where multiple individuals were admitted with severe hallucinations and violent behavior after consuming poisoned alcohol. This tragic event highlighted the lethal consequences of the government's policy to increase the toxicity of industrial alcohol (26:09).

Ben (26:09): “Almost 100 people died in December 1926 due to this, under the administration of Calvin Coolidge.”

The hosts critique President Calvin Coolidge’s administration for its dismissive response to these deaths, framing the government as the antagonist in this historical narrative.

---

Repeal of Prohibition and Lasting Legacies

Prohibition was ultimately repealed in 1933 with the 21st Amendment, bringing an end to the national experiment that lasted just over a decade (31:52). Ben and Noel draw parallels between Prohibition and contemporary debates over marijuana legalization, noting similar economic and social dynamics at play, including the shifting attitudes and economic incentives influencing policy changes.

Noel (32:32): “It sure sounds like it to me, Ben. I don’t really see too much of a silver lining here.”

They also touch upon the persistence of dry counties in the U.S., remnants of the Prohibition era that continue to influence alcohol regulation today.

---

Conclusion

In wrapping up, Ben and Noel reflect on the broader implications of Prohibition, emphasizing how the government’s heavy-handed approach not only failed to eliminate alcohol consumption but also caused significant harm to public health and fueled criminal enterprises. They advocate for learning from history to avoid repeating similar mistakes in modern policy-making.

Noel (33:29): “It’s interesting the way we’re seeing this kind of repeat with marijuana prohibition and the way the tide is turning with that.”

The episode concludes with recommendations for further reading, including Charles Norris’ “Essay and Extermination” and Deborah Bloom's Poisoner’s Handbook, encouraging listeners to deepen their understanding of this dark chapter in American history.

---

Notable Quotes with Attribution

• Noel (05:50): “There’s no question that it was kind of a puritanical way of looking at things. It was this slightly misguided notion that getting rid of the Devil's juice was gonna make everyone into good people.”
• Noel (10:08): “This is something I didn’t know before. They call this the Chemists' War for a good reason.”
• Noel (12:15): “It took time for it to take hold and eventually cause all kinds of leg muscular pains and weakness, leading to paralysis.”
• Ben (26:09): “Almost 100 people died in December 1926 due to this, under the administration of Calvin Coolidge.”
• Noel (32:32): “It sure sounds like it to me, Ben. I don’t really see too much of a silver lining here.”
• Noel (33:29): “It’s interesting the way we’re seeing this kind of repeat with marijuana prohibition and the way the tide is turning with that.”

---

Further Recommendations

• Charles Norris’ “Essay and Extermination”: A detailed account of the medical and societal impacts of Prohibition-era policies.
• Deborah Bloom’s Poisoner’s Handbook: Explores the intersection of chemistry and crime during the Jazz Age and beyond.

---

This episode of Ridiculous History offers a compelling examination of Prohibition's unintended consequences, blending historical facts with engaging storytelling and critical analysis. Perfect for history enthusiasts and curious minds alike, it sheds light on a period where “history is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous.”

Transcript

[Ben]

Fellow ridiculous historians, we are returning to you with a classic episode. Look, Noel and I did used to party. We don't party as much anymore, but we are.

[Noel]

When we do, we like our booze non poisoned. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ben]

Tell us about this one.

[Noel]

Oh man. Remember that time that the government, the federal government, tried to poison people to keep them from drinking alcohol? That was a good one, man. How'd that work out?

[Ben]

We'll see in this classic episode.

[Noel]

Let's roll.

[Unknown]

Is Ryan here? And I have a question for you. What do you do when you win? Like, are you a fist pumper? A woo hooer? A hand clapper? A high fiver? If you want to hone in on those winning moves, check out Chumba Casino. Choose from hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to redeem serious cash prizes. There are new game releases weekly, plus free daily bonuses. So don't wait. Start having the most Fun [e-mail] no purchase necessary.

VG prohibited by law. 21 + terms and conditions apply in.

[Larison Campbell]

Mississippi Yazoo clay keeps secrets.

[Noel]

7,000 bodies out there or more.

[Larison Campbell]

A forgotten asylum cemetery.

[Ben]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell and this is is under Yazukle. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Unknown]

Cyrus the Great of Persia was a conqueror and he tried to increase his empire by marrying Timiris, the widow of the king of the Messengeti people. She refused his offer, and so he decided that he would invade her kingdom instead. Turns out that was a big mistake. Listen to the latest episode of Noble Blood, available now. Listen to Noble blood on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one.

Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known.

At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.

Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2, starting April 9 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartrad. Welcome to the show, everyone. I'm Ben. No. Have you ever seen a moonshine?

[Noel]

Still kind of looks like a glorified sort of fancy tea kettle kind of, right?

[Ben]

Yeah, it depends really on the parts that the bootleggers or moonshiners are working with, they're pretty common.

[Noel]

It's got a curlicue part at the top for distillation.

[Ben]

They were more common during the area of Prohibition, but you can still see a lot of old ones out in the mountains now, and they would use any available part to make a still. For instance, car carburetors were used in moonshine distillation operations, often to the detriment of the people who ultimately drank the shine.

[Noel]

I wonder why that is.

[Ben]

Yeah. What I'm saying here is that due to Prohibition, a lot of quality control just took a dive.

[Noel]

Wait a minute. So you're saying that totally banning and outlawing a substance doesn't just make people automatically, magically stop wanting to consume said substance?

[Ben]

I know it sounds like a broad brush, right? But. But history has shown prohibition, largely, aside from any moral arguments, prohibition of a substance just doesn't work. Speaking of history, we have to give a shout out to one of our favorite parts of the show, super producer Casey Pegram Casey, bootleg.

[Noel]

Pegram Casey is history personified.

[Ben]

Yes.

[Noel]

Yeah. To sum up what you just said, though, Ben, the heart wants what the heart wants.

[Ben]

Sure, sure.

[Noel]

And Uncle Sam can't stop the heart from wanting.

[Ben]

Right? Well, governments have very, very little luck suppressing a chemical substance of any sort. And alcohol is no different. Today's story takes us to the world of Prohibition. And I think everybody across the planet is aware in some vague way of the US's experiment with the 18th Amendment and the prohibition of alcohol. Right. Do you think people are vaguely aware of that?

[Noel]

I think they're vaguely aware of it, but let's make them intimately aware of it, shall we, Ben?

[Ben]

Sure, sure. So the 18th Amendment to the Constitution, which was ratified in 1919, said the. The manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all territories subject to this juris thereof for beverage purposes. So it prohibits all of that. And it goes into effect on January 17, 1920. And people thought. The people who thought this was a good idea were like, there's a brand new America on the way.

[Noel]

Yeah. I mean, there's no question that it was kind of a puritanical way of looking at things. And it was sort of this slightly misguided notion that getting rid of the Devil's juice was gonna all of a sudden, make everyone into good people.

[Ben]

Getting rid of Lucifer's sippens would make people inherently better and prevent the dissolution of the nation's moral character. And they would paint pictures of rampant crime. Juke joints. I don't know if they use the phrase juke joints at that point. And alcoholism. They said, we will increase the success of our economy. We will raise the moral character of the nation and will make the innocent people of the country safe again.

[Noel]

Right. Cause we were also just getting out of a war, and there was a sense that society may well be on the brink of utter chaos. So, you know, let's get rid of people's thing. That kind of makes them feel better.

[Ben]

Right, right.

[Noel]

So I'm not trying to advocate for using alcohol to numb yourself against the pains of the world, but, man, the world was full of some pain around this time. Things were pretty rough. A lot of poverty and a lot of divide between CL classes. And the topic of today's story specifically affects the lower classes almost exclusively.

[Ben]

Yeah. This is a story of victimization and socioeconomic divides. It's also a story wherein Uncle Sam is probably the bad guy, the closest thing we have to an antagonist. Right.

[Noel]

Uncle Sam is such a jerk.

[Ben]

So here we are in Prohibition. We found this excellent article on Vox. I don't know if we should do the title yet because it might be a little bit of a spoiler by German Lopez. So in this article, Deborah Bloom, the author of the Poisoner's Handbook, Murder and the Birth of Forensic Medicine in Jazz Age New York, explains how even before Prohibition, the government had some particular requirements for industrial alcohol manufacturers.

[Noel]

Yeah, this is pretty cool. It was actually a regulation that required these additives to make this industrial alcohol unpotable. But it also separated them from the potable alcohols which were taxed differently. So I think originally it was just an additive called methanol, which is a wood alcohol that is, you know, in certain doses, toxic when consumed by humans.

[Ben]

Sure, yeah, absolutely. And we see. I think you did a great job outlining this. We see a couple of concurrent motivations for this. Right. Let's make sure that we still get paid and we can separate the different types of alcohol. But as Prohibition was enacted and continued, first off, the people who argued in favor for Prohibition were completely wrong, at least in this case. The economy was not helped in any shape, fashion, or form. I'm sure law enforcement received some more money as the they were trying this impossible war on drugs mission. But the moral character didn't exactly improve either because people kept drinking.

[Noel]

Well, not only did it not improve, it just kind of fed the monster that is organized crime and all of these underground distilleries and speakeasies and just pure outright thievery. Because that industrial alcohol we were talking about, that was the stuff you needed to make the bootleg booze. So, you know, people were acting actively pulling off heists to get this stuff. And here's the thing that's so cool, Ben. This is something I didn't know they call this the topic of today's episode, the Chemists War. And it's for good reason. It's because the methanol that was in that industrial alcohol could actually be slightly removed or it could be, like, redistilled.

[Ben]

It could be mitigated.

[Noel]

Mitigated. And so that's what the chemists that the bootleggers or the gangsters hired were doing. And obviously, they would pay their chemists way better than the government chemists, so they might attract better talent.

[Ben]

Yeah, absolutely. And we know there was this huge industry of illegal alcohol manufacturing, transportation, and sale. It booms very, very quickly after Prohibition. And what we find is kind of this proto Breaking Bad situation. This really is a chemist war. In an essay written in the twenties called Our Essay in Extermination by a doctor named Charles Norris, who was a chief medical examiner of New York City at the time, he details the size of this trade. He says the federal government admits that while 80 million gallons of grain alcohol are manufactured yearly under permit, only about 70 million gallons of it turn up again in legally manufactured products. That means 10 million gallons estimated per year are being taken by these groups of gangsters, handed to their, like, evil wizard chemist, and they're cleaning it out or making it less lethal, hopefully. And then they're selling it, you know, in the back rooms of speakeasies across the nation.

[Noel]

Yeah, and that's the thing, too. Like, if you were just an average workaday Joe trying to get your booze fix on and going one of these speakeasies, you didn't know where it was coming from. You didn't know what the. It's like buying illegal street drugs today. Like, you know, you have no idea what additives or impurities are in it. You are trusting in your supplier to not kill you.

[Ben]

Right.

[Noel]

And even before the craziness lets loose that we're about to get into, people were dying from alcohol poisoning. Because sometimes those chemists didn't do a good enough job of getting this stuff out of there, and it was always impure, even if they did do a decent job.

[Ben]

Absolutely, absolutely. And when we say the affected people's health, we're talking about very dark stuff. People died. People Encountered paralysis. You know that old trope about drinking moonshine and going blind? Some people did go blind. Yeah, not a whole ton, but we have some spooky numbers for you.

[Noel]

Yeah, it's crazy. I found this article or a blog post about something called Ginger Jake. Ginger Jake was a medicine. It was actually got around prohibition because it was sold as a medicine and it had something in it called tricresyl phosphate that actually helped kind of trick the government's tests into, you know, seeing it as being a pure alcohol or you know, having no medicinal value whatsoever. But essentially it was just ginger flavored alcohol. But apparently this additive they used, unbeknownst to the company, I imagine, was a very, very slow acting neurotoxin. So it took time for it to take hold and then eventually it actually started to cause all kinds of leg muscular pains and weakness and it caused a type of paralysis. According to this. This post would actually have a very distinctive walk associated with it where people would have to like lift their legs up entirely. Sort of like the. The Ministry of Silly Walks from the Monty Python Show. You know, the Jake Walk. The Jake Walk, exactly. And we actually have a song. The interesting thing about this is it was apparently baffling to doctors and toxicologists in the US but it was actually a couple of blues singers who identified the source of this in two different songs. One by Isham Bracey called Jake Liquor Blues. Let's hear a little clip of that. I drink some machete I drink so much.

[Unknown]

I rest for my love My.

[Noel]

Baby turn her back to me. And then we also have Tommy Johnson who kind of figured out the source of this condition in his song Alcohol and Jake Blues.

[Ben]

Want to do a clip of that?

[Noel]

Yes, please. Oh mama, do not kill it. Don't let it long.

[Ben]

So they're part. They're not neurologists obviously, but they are part of the community where the people encounter this stuff on a regular basis.

[Noel]

That's right. Because you know, the rich, the swells, the high society types who weren't these kind of bible thumping prohibition pushers, they were able to get imported booze from places like Europe or the Caribbean. You can get rum, very expensive. You had to know people, but it could be done. But the lower class had to rely on this super cheap, dangerous street bootleg stuff, right?

[Ben]

Absolutely.

[Larison Campbell]

How to have fun anytime, anywhere.

[Noel]

Step one, go to chumbacasino.com chumbacasino.com Got it.

[Larison Campbell]

Step two, collect your welcome bonus.

[Noel]

Come to papa. Welcome bonus.

[Larison Campbell]

Step three, play hundreds of casino style games for free.

[Unknown]

That's a lot of games, all for free.

[Noel]

Step 4 Unleash your excitement.

[Unknown]

Woo hoo.

[Noel]

Chumba Casino has been delivering thrills for over a decade, so claim your free welcome bonus now and live the chumba life. Visit chumbacasino.com no purchase necessary vgw group.

[Unknown]

Void where prohibited by law 21 + terms and conditions apply.

[Larison Campbell]

There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo Clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.

[Unknown]

It's terrible, terrible dirt.

[Larison Campbell]

Yazoo Clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

[Noel]

7,000 bodies out there or more, all.

[Larison Campbell]

Former patients of the old state asylum, and nobody knew they were there.

[Ben]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets. Nobody talks about it. Nobody has any information. When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo Clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.

[Unknown]

The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

[Larison Campbell]

I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to under yazukle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Unknown]

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season one.

[Noel]

I just knew him as a kid.

[Unknown]

Long, silent voices from his past came.

Forward and he was just staring at me.

And they had secrets of their own to share.

Gilbert King I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott.

I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it.

Every time I hear about my dad, it's oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known.

If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed.

I never expected to find myself in this place. Now I need to tell you how I got here.

At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.

Bone Valley Season 2 Jeremy, Jeremy, I.

Want to tell you something.

Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 starting April 9 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad free with exclusive content starting April 9th. Subscribe to Lava for Good. Plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Ben]

People would also buy things that were counterfeit spirits. They were advertised perhaps as whiskey or they were advertised as vodka. But Instead, they were, you know, they were tarted up industrial alcohol products. And they contained a lot of terrible stuff, not just the neurotoxins, which. This was a really interesting story about Jake. I think they didn't figure out the neurological damage it's capable of until, what, the 70s?

[Noel]

Yeah. And I think it was even worse than they originally had even thought. It turns out that it actually damaged the movement control neurons in the brain or the upper motor neurons. And thankfully, you know, this was about 50 years later. But they had, of course, tracked down all of the offending stuff, and it was outlawed and gone. But this is interesting, cause this is a company that's doing this. This is a company that's trying to make a buck by cheating the system during Prohibition.

[Ben]

Right, right. And they're not the only one. This also affects pharmacies. They were allowed to dispense whiskey with a prescription. So who runs the prescription pad? Right, Interesting. Yeah. And religious authorities that required, or I should say institutions, religious institutions that required alcohol for ceremonies also came under the control of criminal organizations. And it's similar to how when marijuana was legalized or decriminalized medically first in California, a lot of people developed nebulous medical conditions so they could get their.

[Noel]

Prescriptions, have a hard time sleeping, or you got restless leg syndrome or something.

[Ben]

And there were a lot more people claiming to be adherents of certain churches or religious organizations. People found Jesus.

[Noel]

Are you saying Al Capone was running communion wine, my man.

[Ben]

People like him were involved for sure. And this was helpful because these were sources of alcohol that was less likely to be contaminated. But while this was happening, the government realized that all the predictions they had made were wrong. Turned out alcoholism and health problems due to alcohol consumption were not going down.

[Noel]

They were going up.

[Ben]

Right. Like, alcohol declined a little bit. But a ton of restaurants closed because, as you know, many restaurants make their largest amount of profit off of spirit sales.

[Noel]

Sure.

[Ben]

And then.

[Noel]

Because of the markup.

[Ben]

Right, right, because of the markup. And then the government figured out that there was a massive leak they could not plug somewhere along the production line of industrial alcohol manufacture. And legal use, like millions of gallons were disappearing. And so they made a pretty brutal, ruthless decision.

[Noel]

They really did, Ben. So earlier we alluded to the chemists war during Prohibition. And I would argue that's something that was kind of ongoing even before this brutal move we're about to talk about. But it really kicked into high gear when the US government decided to require these manufacturers of this industrial alcohol to start adding all kinds of Horrible stuff to their product. And I guess to the government's credit, that's not really the right way to put it at all. But they were transparent about it. They wanted people to know it was in the papers. In fact, in this Vox article, the headline from a clipping reads, government Government to double alcohol poison content and also add benzene Smell warns drinkers. So they knew what people are doing. They wanted them to know, we're gonna make this stuff even more poison than it already is. And the assumption there was that people were gonna look out, have. Have some sort of self preservation instinct. Not the case.

[Ben]

Right.

[Noel]

People already were showing that they lacked that entirely when they were drinking this stuff off the streets. That was already very, very dangerous and adulterated.

[Ben]

Yeah. This was in 1926. And as you say, Noel, to their credit, they were very public about this. But the reason we call this a brutal, ruthless thing is that it was clearly an indefensible, illogical statement. It was both trying to punish people for a moral decision and then also remove any perceived culpability from the inevitable consequences of this terrible decision. Yeah, they put benzene in there. They also put mercury in there, something.

[Noel]

Akin to strychnine, I believe. But the biggest one was that they like doubled that methanol that was in there. And the reason that that one was the doozy is because it was so similar to the alcohol itself atomically that it bonded with it in a way that was very difficult for the chemist to fully get rid of it.

[Ben]

Right.

[Noel]

By redistilling it or whatever. I'm not, you know, I'm not an alcohol chemist, but whatever they went through to do, it was hard.

[Ben]

Yeah. Because it was so closely intertwined with the drinking alcohol. Right. And Charles Norris, who we mentioned earlier in that essay, he and Alexander Getler, who was the chief toxicologist of New York at the time, they both told the government not to do it. The government did it and instantly people started dying. It was called. This was called the Alcohol of the country by Bloom because it was very easily accessible stuff. We have a lot of information about this in New York City especially, but we know that at this time, bootleggers had nationwide transit infrastructure. So this stuff was going everywhere. And the estimates for the deaths are a little bit fuzzy because some of the deaths were. Were just the result of alcoholism. But the problem is that at the time, alcoholism, like drinking oneself to death from regular old alcohol, that was listed as a natural death in obituaries. This was something very different. This was death by poison.

[Noel]

Yeah. And this Guy Charles Norris, who you read from his essay earlier, who was the chief medical examiner in New York City, was just wholesale against this. He's like, this is a really bad idea. Government, please don't do this. And of course they didn't listen to him. And so he, he referred to this and ties in with the title of that essay. He referred to this as, quote, our national experiment in extermination. So it's, it really is almost like this idea of like they call them souses, you know, the drunks or whatever. They almost, it's almost like the government actively wanted to kill them. And in this, in this Slate article, it describes an event that happened on Christmas Eve of 1926 when a man goes into Bellevue Hospital, New York and is terrified that Santa Claus is coming after him to kill him with a baseball bat. As it turns out, he was in fact experiencing hallucination as a result of this poisonous stuff. And again, the government knew. I mean, I don't know, it just seems like so ill informed, like obviously prohibition wasn't working. They knew Prohibition wasn't working. They wanted to up the ante by doing this. But did they really think this was gonna stop people? They had to know people were gonna drink it.

[Ben]

The approach they appear to have taken here, or rather the stance would be that you have to break a few drunk eggs to make a sober omelet. Or the dangerous argument we've talked about before, the belief in the greater good. But yeah, almost 100 people died, as you said, in December 1926, the week of Christmas, due to this, the same year that the government passed these regulations and hundreds would die in the following years. This had intentionally been rendered fatal. And Calvin Coolidge was the president at the time. And under his administration, these deaths were not seen as a problem. It was kind of like shrug, things happen. But overall it is getting drunks off the street.

[Noel]

Well, it's sort of like the, Is it the President of the Philippines who basically advocates for murdering drug dealers in the streets? Similar vibe, only a little more roundabout way of doing it. I mean, at least Duterte says what he means and isn't trying to hide behind some kind of puritanical curtain like these guys. You know, it's very, very troubling.

[Larison Campbell]

There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo Clay. It's thick, burnt orange and it's got a reputation.

[Unknown]

It's terrible, terrible dirt.

[Larison Campbell]

Yazoo clay eats everything. So things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

[Noel]

7,000 bodies out there or more, all.

[Larison Campbell]

Former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.

[Ben]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets. Nobody talks about it. Nobody has any information. When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.

[Unknown]

The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

[Larison Campbell]

I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazu Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Unknown]

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one.

[Noel]

I just knew him as a kid.

[Unknown]

Long, silent voices from his past came.

Forward and he was just staring at me.

And they had secrets of their own to share.

Gilbert King I'm the son of Jeremy me, Lyn Scott.

I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it.

Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known.

If the cops and everything would have done the job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed.

I never expected to find myself in this place. Now I need to tell you how I got here.

At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.

Bone Valley Season 2 Jeremy.

Jeremy, I want to tell you something.

Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 starting April 9 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad free with exclusive content starting April 9th, subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Ben]

Norris is walking a thin line on this prohibition issue at the time, you know, because he is the chief medical examiner. So he has street cred and he's, I think, in a little bit of a safer place to argue against prohibition. And he says that something must be added to grain alcohol to prevent it being all drunk away and thereby denied to legitimate industry and business. So he says, okay, we have to add some kind of contaminant, but methanol? Seriously, that's going to kill people. He didn't really propose a different additive or I couldn't find a different additive that he proposed, but he also mentioned something that was really powerful and prescient for his time. He revealed how the New York administration of the twenties looked at certain Populations as disposable alcoholics, certain types of immigrants, the poor, as we mentioned at the top of this episode. And there were a couple of different rules, like two sets of rules. One for the wealthy people who are drinking a lot, and one for the quote, unquote, degenerates. And Norris points out that private physicians will rarely expose their deceased customers to the indignity of a postmortem examination. And then they'll just call those deaths, those alcohol related deaths, deaths by some sort of natural cause. They still look upright and respectable, even in the afterlife.

[Noel]

Yeah, Ben, And I think there's this quote from the Chicago Tribune that was cited in the Slate article. It really sums up this whole problem that we're trying to kind of wrap our heads around from 1927. It says, quote, normally no American government would engage in such business as poisoning its own citizens. It is only in the curious fanaticism of prohibition that any means, however barbarous, are considered justified. So, I mean, I think that really sums up the mindset of, like, this whole era.

[Ben]

It's a moral crusade, a total moral.

[Noel]

Crusade that did eventually come to an end.

[Ben]

Yes. Luckily. Luckily for everyone involved, teetotalers and booze enthusiasts alike, Prohibition of alcohol was repealed in 1933. So it didn't last that long, just a span of about 30 years ago. 13 ridiculous years. Now, were there pluses to alcohol prohibition? Sure, for certain parties. It was great for organized crime. Right. It was great for law enforcement. That's job security. Because it's an unending war. But for the majority of the country, it was demonstrably a bad thing.

[Noel]

Yeah, it sure sounds like it to me, Ben. I don't really see too much of a silver lining here, so. And it's interesting the way we're seeing this kind of repeat with marijuana prohibition and the way the tide is turning with that, it's really interesting to kind of be. It's quite a time to be alive just to see these things kind of change and see the kind of puritanical attitudes kind of making their way out of fashion.

[Ben]

Yeah. Which is strange because in the current situation regarding marijuana, especially in the us there are some states where it's completely legal, and there are some states where it's still a very serious offense to what, possess it, carry it around, grow it. And one of the huge factors in the turning tide regarding marijuana legislation has honestly been not so much the science behind the substance itself, but the economic benefit to governments and businesses of making it legal.

[Noel]

Oh, for sure. I mean, that's Certainly you see dollar signs in some of these formerly teetotalin officials. Right. And. Yeah. And you would think that with all this concern about the economy, with this original Prohibition, that would have been a little bit more on people's minds instead of just funneling all that money into the abyss that is the black market, you know?

[Ben]

Right, right. And after. After prohibition on alcohol ended on the federal level on December 5th of 33, some states decided to stay dry states for up to a third of a century longer.

[Noel]

Well, we still have dry counties in the U.S. i know blue Ridge, Georgia, which is the really beautiful mountain cabins you can rent there. That is a dry county.

[Ben]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Noel]

Yeah. And it's interesting, too. I want to point out. There's something that I noticed as a correction in one of these articles. I think it was in the Slate article. They mischaracterized the 18th Amendment as prohibiting the consumption of alcohol. That was not illegal.

[Ben]

Yeah. It was just the manufacturer, manufacturing and distribution. Right, right. Import, export stuff.

[Noel]

That's an interesting distinction there.

[Ben]

Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's kind of like the pursuit of happiness.

[Noel]

That's right.

[Ben]

You can go after it. Yeah. Currently, as we record here in the US There are still hundreds of dry counties across the country. About 10% of the country is still what would be considered dry. And about 18 million people or so live in that area.

[Noel]

Nobody knows how dry I am, Ben.

[Ben]

No one knows the dryness you've seen.

[Noel]

Isn't it weird that you always see drunk people singing that song? Do you know what I'm talking about? Like in cartoons.

[Ben]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Noel]

Nobody knows how dry are you Nobody knows how dry I am don't stir yourself, sir. I'll muffle that inebriated canary. Nobody at all.

[Ben]

And on that note, feel free to send us your favorite drunken singalongs if you find them online. We want to thank you so much for taking this strange journey with us. If you would like to learn more, we can recommend reading Charles Norris Essay and Extermination in Full. Deborah Bloom's Poisoner's Handbook is a great thing, and it's not just about Prohibition.

[Noel]

That's right.

[Ben]

If you liked our Arsenic episode, you'll also love Poisoner's Handbook.

[Noel]

Absolutely. And we would, of course, like to thank our super producer, Casey Pegram, Alex Williams, who composed our theme, our research associate, Christopher Haciotes, who hipped us to today's topic. And I want to thank you. Right. Well, you, Ben. I'm looking at you.

[Ben]

Oh, and thank you, Noel.

[Noel]

See you next time. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Larison Campbell]

In Mississippi, Yazoo clay keeps secrets.

[Noel]

7,000 bodies out there or more.

[Larison Campbell]

A forgotten asylum cemetery.

[Ben]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown]

Cyrus the Great of Persia was a conqueror, and he tried to increase his empire by marrying Tomyris, the widow of the king of the Messengheti people. She refused his offer, and so he decided that he would invade her kingdom instead. Turns out that was a big mistake. Listen to the latest episode of Noble Blood, available now. Listen to Noble blood on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season one.

Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known.

At the end of the Today I'm literally a son of a killer.

Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2, starting April 9 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.