CLASSIC: George Carlin Gets Quoted in the Supreme Court: Ridiculous Stand-up Stories with Wayne Federman

Summary

Ridiculous History Podcast Summary
Episode: CLASSIC: George Carlin Gets Quoted in the Supreme Court: Ridiculous Stand-up Stories with Wayne Federman
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
Release Date: August 2, 2025

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Introduction

In this classic episode of Ridiculous History, hosts Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown delve into the intriguing intersection of comedy and constitutional law by exploring how legendary stand-up comedian George Carlin’s routine found its way into the United States Supreme Court. The episode features a special appearance by Wayne Federman, a renowned comedy expert and educator from the Los Angeles comedy scene.

Setting the Stage: George Carlin and "Seven Dirty Words"

The conversation begins with hosts Ben and Noel introducing the topic of George Carlin’s controversial "Seven Dirty Words" routine and its profound impact on free speech regulations in the United States.

Noel (00:42):
“...we're talking about George Carlin and his list of dirty words and how that kind of got under the FCC’s bonnet.”

Ben (01:14):
“The kind of [Carlin’s routine] that got up to the U.S. Supreme Court.”

The Supreme Court Case

Wayne Federman provides an in-depth analysis of the Supreme Court case that challenged the Federal Communications Commission’s (FCC) regulations on indecent language.

Wayne Federman (06:07):
“...George Carlin was like, I don't know what indecent or means exactly. So I'm going to come up with a list of words you can never say on television... shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker, and tits.”

Ben (07:37):
“They have a heavy influence from Danny Kaye, especially in wordplay and verbal acuity.”

Impact on Free Speech and Censorship

The discussion transitions to the broader implications of Carlin’s routine on free speech and the evolving standards of censorship in comedy.

Noel (10:49):
“These words... what makes a word a dirty word? And what makes a fart not free speech?”

Wayne Federman (10:49):
“...Pacifica Radio said, I'm going to sue the FCC and say this is unconstitutional because of the First Amendment for playing this George Carlin bit on the air.”

Ben (12:33):
“...Carlin was quoted alongside Shakespeare and passages from the Bible. It became an intelligent argument about the role of language in literature.”

Carlin’s Perspective
The episode highlights Carlin’s own stance on language, emphasizing that words are neutral and context-dependent.

Wayne Federman (13:10):
“There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of those words in and of themselves. They're only words. It's the context that counts...”

Evolution of Stand-Up Comedy

Federman discusses how Carlin’s defiance against censorship paved the way for future comedians and altered the landscape of stand-up comedy.

Wayne Federman (19:12):
“...the Supreme Court case was in 1978, but what happened in 1975 changed everything. HBO started doing these hour specials...”

Ben (20:46):
“Was his act... he was obsessed, huh?”

Wayne Federman (21:10):
“...Carlin saw the rise of political correctness and railed against it, believing it stifled free speech and the essence of comedy.”

Modern Implications: Political Correctness and Speech Control

The hosts and Federman deliberate on the current state of free speech, political correctness, and the "PC Police," drawing parallels to Carlin’s era.

Noel (22:16):
“Milo Yiannopoulos was banned from college campuses... where does that leave us?”

Ben (24:18):
“And he knew, you know, it was interesting that he had that. That side. He saw it coming and he really railed against it in a big way.”

Wayne Federman (24:52):
“Political correctness is insipid because it comes under the guise of tolerance... it’s the opposite of free speech.”

Future of Free Speech in Comedy

The conversation wraps up with reflections on whether the trend of increasing censorship in comedy will persist or if there will be a resurgence of free speech protections.

Noel (25:10):
“Do you see this trend escalating or do you think it’s just another cyclical thing that will fall away?”

Wayne Federman (25:29):
“It all depends on whether hate speech should be protected by the First Amendment...”

Conclusion

Ben and Noel conclude the episode by acknowledging that the debate over free speech and censorship in comedy is ongoing and deeply rooted in historical and legal contexts. They express gratitude to Wayne Federman for his insightful contributions and encourage listeners to explore further discussions on free speech and stand-up comedy.

Ben (33:06):
“Ridiculous historians listening now, if you enjoyed this episode as much as we enjoyed this interview, then by God, we've done something right.”

Noel (34:00):
“This has been so much fun and we had a nice even divide down the middle between Lenny and George. Thank you, Wayne. This has been a delight.”

Notable Quotes

• George Carlin (via Wayne Federman, 12:38):
  “There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of those words in and of themselves. They’re only words. It’s the context that counts. It’s the user. It’s the intention behind the words that makes them good or bad. The words are completely neutral. The words are innocent.”

• Wayne Federman (19:12):
  “The Supreme Court case was in 1978, but really what happened in 1975 changed everything.”

• Wayne Federman (24:52):
  “Political correctness is insipid because it comes under the guise of tolerance... it’s the opposite of free speech.”

Final Thoughts

This episode of Ridiculous History masterfully intertwines the history of stand-up comedy with pivotal legal battles that have shaped the boundaries of free speech in America. Through engaging dialogue and expert insights from Wayne Federman, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of how George Carlin’s fearless comedic approach not only entertained but also influenced significant legal precedents regarding language and censorship.

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For those interested in the intricate dance between comedy and law, this episode serves as a compelling exploration of how humor can challenge societal norms and prompt vital conversations about freedom of expression.

Transcript

[Ben]

Fellow ridiculous historians, welcome back. We've got a classic episode for you that we are quite excited about. We want to tell you at the top, this might not be appropriate for all the kiddos with the sensitive earlobes.

[Noel]

It's funny. I was just telling you, Ben off mic about the recently reconnecting with the dude who hooked us up with Mr. Wayne Fetterman, comedy legend, comedy expert, educator, Los Angeles comedy scene luminary. And I did mention to this guy Jeff, that this was by far the filthiest episode, pair of episodes, in fact, that we have ever done here on our humble little PG13 show.

[Ben]

Yes, even more so than the James Joyce episodes.

[Noel]

Hey, what did you guys think of that? James Joyce?

[Ben]

I did enjoy it. Thank you for sending that.

[Noel]

It was a bunch of people talking on the street about their favorite James Joyce quote, and it was a joke, obviously. All of them were from the filthy farty letters.

[Ben]

Yes, and filthy farty letters have always been a struggle in a lot of societies. What does free speech mean? What makes a word a dirty word?

[Noel]

And what makes a fart not free speech? I think it is. It's a kind of speech.

[Ben]

It is a kind of speech.

[Noel]

Well, are we or are we not today talking about George Carlin and his list of dirty words and how that kind of got under. Got a little B in the bonnet of the fcc. They won't let George B.

[Ben]

All the way up to the U.S. supreme Court. And we're learning this with our returning special guest, the legendary legendary Wayne Fetterman. So let's roll it, folks. Thanks for tuning in.

[Noel]

Let's do it.

[Wayne Fetterman]

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[John Lithgow]

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[Buzz Aldrin]

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[Buzz Aldrin]

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[Ben]

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[Noel]

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[Buzz Aldrin]

So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to.

[Noel]

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[Buzz Aldrin]

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[Ben]

Before we get started, folks, it's important to know that this episode contains some strong and explicit language that may not be suitable for all the listeners. So if you got your kiddos in the crowd, this might not be the episode for them. We thought about censoring it, but we decided we couldn't, not in good faith, because this episode is fundamentally about free speech and language. We hope you enjoy. Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you for tuning in. If you check the headlines or the title of your podcast before you listen to them, you will know that this is episode two of a two part series. If you have not heard episode one, please don't delay. Click, pause. Go listen to episode one. You'll want to catch up. Hi, I'm Ben.

[Noel]

Hey, it's me, Noel, in all my microphonic glory.

[Ben]

You sound wonderful, my friend. Thank you.

[Noel]

It's my dulcet tones.

[Ben]

Your dulcet tones? Yeah. So we had, as we said, a little bit of a technical difficulty in the first episode.

[Noel]

Yeah. Hopefully you could hear me bleeding into another mic, but it's just not as high fidelity as this is. Listen to me leaning into the mic.

[Ben]

Well done. Thank you. So we are, of course, always accompanied by a super producer to help us save the show today. That is our guest super producer, Paul Decant. However, we still hold a very special place in our hearts for our super producer, Casey Peggot.

[Noel]

And a glint in our eye.

[Ben]

And a swing in our step.

[Noel]

And we are also joined today by our incredible guest Wayne Fetterman, who had some incredible things to say about the history of Stand up, the storied careers of Lenny Bruce, and today specifically, George Carlin.

[Ben]

And without further ado, let's get the show on the road.

[Buzz Aldrin]

This is. This is incredible. I'm still like, it's amazing. This all happened when I was a kid. So it's just, it was just great. George Carlin again, who was, you know, a beneficiary of Lenny Bruce's expanding expansion of language. And there was a number of comedians like, it allowed Redd Fox and Richard Pryor to speak in their street vernacular without getting arrested. And I was just like, I don't know, this is the way I talk on the corner when I'm making people laugh. I think I can bring this on stage. But Carlin was like, I don't know what indecent or means exactly. So I'm going to come up with a list of words you can never say on television, right? And those words, I'm going to say them right now.

[Ben]

Please do.

[Buzz Aldrin]

This is in order. It's shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker and tits. So that is. That was the original bit of his. And he later was like, it's weird that I put motherfucker in there because I already said fuck earlier, which is a version of it. But he just liked the rhythm of it. And I just need to say this because it's very important to the whole story. George Carlin didn't want to be a comedian. George Carlin wanted to be a famous actor, movie star. And his idol was a guy named Danny Kay. And Danny Kay was known for these very twisty songs and speeches where he would have high level of verbal acuity.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. Just to interject real quick, I'm so glad you mentioned Danny K. Wayne, because.

[Buzz Aldrin]

Go ahead.

[Ben]

He's. He is one of the actors I loved growing up, especially in the original version of Walter Mitty. So of course, totally familiar with that turn of phrase. So that, that was Carlin's sort of North Star for a while.

[Buzz Aldrin]

100% it was his north star until he realized that he hated acting for kind of the reasons that we spoke about earlier that he was just. He didn't like authority, you know, so, like, if there's a director on his head telling him to stand here and say this, he's not going to like that. He didn't realize it at the time. He was like, oh, I'd rather just write and say my own stuff, you know, and be completely free of Even when he hosted Saturday Night Live, he said to Lorne Michaels, I don't want to be in these sketches. I don't want to rehearse these things. Can I just do my comedy and, you know, and bring my brain and my mouth and that'll be good, that'll be good. And he's the first host of the first Saturday Night Live in, you know, whatever, 1975, I believe. So anyway, so that's. That ended his Danny K dream. But this bit, the shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker and tits, has a certain Gilbert and Sullivan rhythm to it that he loved. And that was part of the bit that. What made that, as well as these words. So anyway, he did this bit on an album called Class Clown, came out in 1972. The next year he does another album called Occupation fool and he expands on it and he calls it the Filthy Words. This is what happens. There's a public radio station, or excuse me, not public radio, Pacifica. And what is that? How would you describe Pacifica? That network. College.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah.

[Noel]

They're certainly not like a top 40, like.

[Ben]

Right. They're kind of alternative for their day, you know.

[Buzz Aldrin]

Right. Progress, I would say. Progressive radio station.

[Ben]

There we go.

[Buzz Aldrin]

In New York again. In New York, you know, the vanguard of progressivism, wbai. And they're doing a whole thing about just language and the hypocrisy of language and where's this thing? And so they play Filthy Words, which is kind of an expansion. He talks about shit a lot. Shit Face. What is, you know, shit kicker and all of that. Some guy named. I can't. John Douglas. I just, I don't remember that, but I wrote it down. He hears it in his car with his 15 year old son. Again, we're going to go back to youth. Remember that statute?

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Buzz Aldrin]

Youth and others. And he calls the fc. This is. In the middle of the afternoon they play it and WBAI says, look, this might be offensive, but I just. He's just talking about words. He's just using words to talk about words and our language. So he calls the fcc, lodges a complaint. The FCC says, you're going to get a mark on your record. I think some people said it was $100 fine. Other people said, no, I'm not sure. And basically wbai, Pacifica Radio says, I'm going to sue the FCC and say this is unconstitutional because of the First Amendment for playing this George Carlin bit on the air at 2 o' clock on a Tuesday afternoon in 1973. Any questions?

[Ben]

I think we're with you so far, but this sounds like, sounds like it's about to get quickly out of control.

[Buzz Aldrin]

Right. Guess what? The U.S. court of Appeals in Washington D.C. you may be familiar with that court. Brett Kavanaugh was just on that court. Merrick Garland is on that court that's considered the highest up to the right below the Supreme Court, the penultimate court. Right.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Buzz Aldrin]

They agree with Pacifica. They're like, yeah, this is, this is too broad a definition of what's indecent or obscene. And we're going to strike down this fine or this mark on your record. So guess what? They bring it to the Supreme Court. And in a 5 to 4 decision, this is George Carlin, a 9th grade dropout, having his words read in the Supreme Court about whether they think these words are indecent or obscene or what the difference between indecent or obscene is. And guess what? The court, in a very narrow 5 to 4 decision says that during the daytime hours the FCC does have the right to say you can't play anything that would be considered obscene or indecent, but after 10 o' clock you can't.

[Noel]

Yeah. I think though the term is safe harbor, I believe is the term they adopted.

[Buzz Aldrin]

Yes, that is right. Oh, I love the research you guys are doing. So that's kind of what happened. And I just. Carlin, to the day he died, he said he always had a perverse pride in the fact that somewhere in Supreme Court like case law as a precedent, that his stupid routine he did on an album called, you know, Class. Excuse me, Occupation fool is. Is part of the history, the legal history of the United States.

[Noel]

Well, let's hear a quick moment of Carlin himself talking about how he feels about words in some of this.

[Buzz Aldrin]

Love it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of those words in and of themselves. They're only words. It's the context that counts. It's the user. It's the intention behind the words that makes them good or bad. The words are completely neutral. The words are innocent. I get tired of people talking about bad words and bad language. It's the context that makes them good or bad. The context that makes them good or bad.

[Ben]

We do also want to mention, we would be remiss if we skipped this part. Not only is Carlin's or excerpts of Carlin's performance and his writing part of Supreme Court case law, but he was quoted alongside Shakespeare and passages from the Bible. I think in the Bible they mentioned the line, they were like, oh, is it. Is this cunt motherfucker stuff so bad because the Bible says he who pisseth against the wall, so where's the line? And then they also mention Shakespeare saying pissing conduits. So this became an argument. It started as this again, sort of hypocritical argument about decency in the hearts and minds of the innocent and unspoiled. But it quickly became a much more, I think a much more intelligent argument about the role of language in literature. And you know what? Good on Carlin. Yeah, he earned it.

[Noel]

No doubt. And I'm still deciding whether or not we can even release this episode fully uncensored. This is a family show, technically, Wayne, just FYI. But I think this is valuable to the point of like, you can't censor it. And it almost is.

[Ben]

It would be hypocritical of us to do so.

[Noel]

It would be hilariously hypocritical.

[Buzz Aldrin]

This is like we're caught in a loop here. We are allowed to talk about these words because now we're going to be seeing censored.

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[Buzz Aldrin]

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[Noel]

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[Wayne Fetterman]

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[Buzz Aldrin]

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[Noel]

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Listen to shock incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. No, it's true, because Carlin couldn't say these words when he did the Tonight show or talk about it that way, but when he did Chris Rock's HBO show, he was able to say the words. So it is interesting. I mean, it's still. You wouldn't want to say these words in front of a kid, I guess, right?

[Ben]

It depends on the kid.

[Noel]

Yeah, yeah. Some kids have really tough, tough constitutions. My nine year old who's actually here right now has been like giving us the devil horns this whole time.

[Ben]

Yeah, she's head banging.

[Noel]

Yeah, yeah. But, man, I don't even know where do we go from here? So. Yeah, what's next?

[Buzz Aldrin]

Well, the Supreme Court case was in 1978, but really what happened in 1975 changed everything. And that's when HBO started doing these hour specials. They were called, eventually called on location, and the first one was done by Robert Klein at a school in the northeast. And he's a very clean comedian. But even in that special, he goes, all right, I have total freedom to say anything. Shit. You know, he just said it just to say the words. And. But then the next, in 1977, Carlin does. And if you can find this, this would be amazing. His first of 14 HBO specials. And before the special begins, they have a newscaster talking about that this, there's going to be some language on here that you're not used to hearing on television. And then this gets even crazier. In the middle of an HBO special, they stop the special and run a disclaimer over the screen saying, the next portion of this comedy act will contain language that might be unsuitable for children, please. And then cuts back to Carlin at USC just to bring it all full circle at Bovard Auditorium, and then talks about, you know, this language and, and these words. And he sort of became famous for this in a way where the language and the, the arrest of Lenny Bruce sort of destroyed Lenny Bruce in a way, it did make him famous, but he became so consumed with it. And if you really listen to his act at the end, a lot of times he would just read court transcripts.

[Ben]

Was his act wow, he was obsessed, huh?

[Buzz Aldrin]

Yes, yes, very much so. And, you know, I don't know how much of the drugs were making him paranoid or whatever, but it's like, it's very, it's, it's really sad to listen to him just go on and on about it. And in a way, it elevated Carlin's career. So in a short period of time, from, let's say, 65 till, I guess, 75, like in those 10 years, it started to change. And then once we got those HBO specials, suddenly there's Red Fox doing an HBO special where, you know, he's like, I don't want to repeat the language. But it, you know, is graphic adult entertainment, so. And that continues to this day. Although I will say this, I do feel like there's a different kind of censorship going on now in, in comedy a little bit. And Carlin talked about it at the end that he wouldn't play colleges. And I know Seinfeld won't, and I know Chris Rock, because people are so sensitive about hearing something that might be offensive. Offensive, like offensive is the new indecent in our society. Again, no one's going to get arrested, but you might get shamed or lose a job because of it.

[Ben]

So what would be an example of that?

[Buzz Aldrin]

What do you mean, an example? Seinfeld bits or like.

[Noel]

Or like somebody being, you know, I mean, I can think of one off the top, and this is a really extreme example. But that guy, Milo Yiannopoulos, who is a alt right kind of Looney Tune, like, you can, you can disagree with what he has to say, but technically, you know, you would like to have him have the right to say it.

[Ben]

But he's also not doing comedy.

[Noel]

No, he's not doing comedy, but he's.

[Ben]

Not intentionally doing comedy.

[Noel]

He's not intentionally doing comedy, but he was banned from all these college campuses. And this is not me saying good on Milo. I'm just saying we're talking about the First Amendment, and there are lines between, like, you know, being indecent and, you know, being a supporter of violence. So the whole deal with, like, indecency is like. Or freedom of speech is like, you can say what you want as long as you're not actively hurting someone.

[Ben]

But freedom of speech is also not freedom from consequences.

[Noel]

No, that's also true. But I'm just wondering, like, this whole PC Police thing, I think that's why I brought up this extreme example, because he is an extreme example of not being PC. And I don't think this is exclusively a discussion about comedy. This is about speech. So I'm just wondering.

[Buzz Aldrin]

Yes, it is.

[Ben]

Right?

[Buzz Aldrin]

Yes, it is. And I. Look, I agree. Look, I'm listening very carefully to what you're saying, and I agree with you, and I don't. I'm not that familiar with Milo's stuff other than being in his fan club, but I know a lot. No, I. But I. I do think it's interesting that Carlin and Seinfeld and Chris Rock won't play colleges because of how offensive some people might find what they're saying, which is strange. It's not strange because you can really get. I don't want to use the word bullied. But you can really get publicly shamed online in a big way if, you know, if people think what you're saying is offensive. And again, this doesn't affect me personally, but as somebody who's interested in the history of comedy, I feel like the walls are narrowing as opposed to for so long in my life. They just kept broadening. And it used to be like if you made fun of Catholics or something like that and they get upset, you're like, well, F them if they can't take a joke. But that doesn't exist anymore. For some people who feel like you can't make fun of a marginalized community. That's a euphemism. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. So it's like any, any of that. So it's. I know this is off the track a little bit. I don't even know if you want to.

[Ben]

Not at all. Not at all. Not at all.

[Buzz Aldrin]

But I do think it is interesting that we've become. We've sort of shrunk back to a. Much more like, be careful walking on eggshells comedy around certain subjects that didn't exist when I was a kid. And I know Carlin said something phenomenal about it. He said that political correctness is, and I'm paraphrasing here, insipid because it comes under the guise of tolerance. It's like that's. You're under the guise of, hey, we're just trying to make it all better for everyone. But basically what you're doing is you're saying you can't say that.

[Ben]

Right.

[Buzz Aldrin]

He hated that.

[Ben]

It's the opposite of comedy. Right. It's the opposite of what? Stand up comedy?

[Buzz Aldrin]

It's the opposite of free speech.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Buzz Aldrin]

More importantly. Yeah, but, but he knew, you know, it was interesting that he had that. That side. He saw it coming and he really railed against it in a big way.

[Ben]

Do you see this trend? You know, we've walked through some of the history, so let's walk toward the future. Do you see this trend escalating or do you think it's just another cyclical thing that will fall away? I guess what I'm asking is, do we have some more Supreme Court cases in the future? If we had to guess, that would.

[Buzz Aldrin]

I don't think so, because I don't think it's about the. I don't think any government is going in, to tell you the truth. I don't know. It all depends on. Hate speech is basically what it comes down to is whether you think hate speech is something that should exist or that is completely protected by the First Amendment. So, and you know, I know you're not allowed to incite somebody. These words are so, you know, amorphous. I know you're not allowed to do that. So, so I don't think this is, this is more about, you know, vigilante vigilantism in speech control, you know, in the same way Catholics used to do it in the, you know, in the 40s.

[Dr. Lea Tritate]

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[Ben]

A foot washed up, a shoe with some bones in it.

[Buzz Aldrin]

They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable.

[Wayne Fetterman]

These are the coldest of cold cases. But everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA. Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it.

[Noel]

He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha.

[Wayne Fetterman]

On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at othram, the Houston lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Lithgow]

Hello, I'm John Lithgow.

[Buzz Aldrin]

We choose to go to the moon.

[John Lithgow]

I want to tell you about my new fiction podcast.

[Buzz Aldrin]

That's one small step for man.

[John Lithgow]

It's about Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space.

[Noel]

You're a great pilot, Buzz. As far as I'm concerned, the best I've seen.

[John Lithgow]

That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't predisposition.

[Buzz Aldrin]

To depression, alcohol abuse and suicide.

[John Lithgow]

We'll see Buzz try to overcome demons.

[Buzz Aldrin]

What do you say, Buzz? Another beer.

[John Lithgow]

And triumph over addiction.

[Buzz Aldrin]

Here's to you, Buzz Aldrin.

[John Lithgow]

Good luck to you and become a true hero.

[Buzz Aldrin]

Buzz and I will proceed into the.

[John Lithgow]

Lunar module, not because he conquers space, but because he conquers himself.

[Noel]

Buzz, we intercepted a Soviet radio transmission.

[John Lithgow]

Starring me, John Lithgow.

[Ben]

Can you put it through.

[Noel]

On the.

[John Lithgow]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts?

[Buzz Aldrin]

Columbia. So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to.

[Noel]

There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond and.

[Buzz Aldrin]

Left a woman behind to drown. There's a famous headline, I think, in the New York Daily News. It's teddy Escapes, Blonde Drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you the story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president?

[Noel]

Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control.

[Dr. Lea Tritate]

And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal.

[Noel]

The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.

[Dr. Lea Tritate]

Listen to United States of Kennedy on.

[Buzz Aldrin]

The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Noel]

It's such a slippery slope, too, because what about, like, things like dog whistle politics, where you have these potentially racist speakers that aren't outright saying, exactly, kill, kill this group of people or hurt this group of people, but they're using these kind of coded words that speak to their bas or what have you. And then that's interpreted. But, you know, from a legal standpoint, you can't say, oh, he said to do this, because it's all in the subtext.

[Ben]

Again, what does incites me.

[Noel]

Yeah, and it's just, you know, it's the whole thought police thing where it's like, once you start banning words like Carlin's words, you potentially could ban any word. So it's dangerous territory. But it's also like, where does that leave us?

[Ben]

I strongly feel like we should not bleep this episode.

[Noel]

Yeah, we just have to put a really strongly worded trigger word.

[Buzz Aldrin]

I'm really sorry, I didn't know. Why did you make me say those?

[Noel]

Because we thought it'd be funny if you bleeped them and then said, like, do your homework. But no, we were pretty much from the start not gonna. Yeah.

[Ben]

And also, you nailed the cadence.

[Noel]

Oh, you gotta have the cadence.

[Ben]

You can't just read the seven words in some sort of.

[Buzz Aldrin]

No, you have to Danny K it up a little bit.

[Ben]

That's true. Well, this has been illuminating. And I like that we're ending on a question. The thing about this story is that it's not over.

[Noel]

No.

[Ben]

This conversation, this conflict, this controversy continues far past the 50s and the late 40s into the future, into the new millennium.

[Noel]

But that's kind of what I was saying at the top of the show, where it's like, you know, comedy and this kind of thing that you. That, you know, has this. The guise of, like, oh, this is entertainment. This is light stuff. This is just to kind of pass the time. Yet we're talking about it in terms of, like, race riots and the use of language to, like, physically hurt people and incite, you know, these kind of crazy events that can happen and that we're seeing happen in the news and.

[Ben]

We'Re talking about the frequency. Freedom of thought in a very real way.

[Noel]

Yeah.

[Buzz Aldrin]

And the interesting thing is this is the First Amendment to the Constitution. Like, think I. They would have no idea back then. But how powerful an idea that the government shall make no laws infringing on freedom of speech. Like, that is insane. That. That's still. I just. I love those guys, those crazy white slave owners. Okay, can I do a little button for the whole episode? Please do. You might find interesting, or it's not. Who knows? But when I was on Curb youb Enthusiasm, I played a character named Dean Weinstock. And the name Weinstock was named after a comedian named Lotus Weinstock, who has since passed away. But Lotus Weinstock, and you can look her up, was Lenny Bruce's last girlfriend. Full circle, Full circle. I knew Lotus, too. I knew her. I knew I did shows with her.

[Ben]

Holy smokes.

[Buzz Aldrin]

I know, I know.

[Ben]

You know what? This is a. This is a rare moment, I think, for my co host and I, because we stopped for a second and just stared at each other. Because that is a perfect ending. We've got to say that. I think. Ridiculous historians listening now, if. If you enjoyed this episode a fraction as much as we enjoyed this interview, then by God, We've done something right.

[Noel]

Yeah, seriously. And I think if you want more of this, you should check out Wayne's new podcast, which goes even deeper into the history of stand up.

[Ben]

Oh, it's good.

[Noel]

It's really, really good. And it's out there. Now. What are you guys, about two episodes deep? It's like a miniseries, right?

[Buzz Aldrin]

It's six episodes and we're five in. So we're just about done, Just about done the first season. And then we might do deep dives in the second season, but, you know, we'll see.

[Noel]

That's awesome.

[Ben]

We'd love to hear this.

[Noel]

I'm also envious of a show that has a clock on it. We just have to do this show forever until we die.

[Ben]

It's sort of a Sisyphean endeavor.

[Noel]

Oh, but thank you, by the way. This is going to be a two parter because this has been so much fun and we already had like a nice even divide down the middle between Lenny and George and this has just been a delight, man. Thank you so much for coming on and we really appreciate you diving deep with us.

[Buzz Aldrin]

Noel and Ben, I gotta say, was a delight on the, on this end as well. And I'm just glad that the Danny Kaye that we gave Danny Kay is due because it was quite, quite a comedian and a big, big influence on George Carlin.

[Ben]

And maybe, you know, maybe we can just throw a Danny Kaye clip somewhere in this episode so you can hear the word play.

[Buzz Aldrin]

Yeah, I mean, he's loaded, loaded with patter songs in there, you know, I mean. Yeah.

[Ben]

Everything is tickety boo tickety boo, tickety boo Everything is tickety boo on such a dreamy day to do hook a beeper Snickety poo, snickety poo snickety poo with the sky so blinkety blue it causes one to say bless mankind including my attackers I'm inclined the feeling is.

[Buzz Aldrin]

There'S a jolly well there it's episode. Absolutely.

[Ben]

Crackhouses. So there you have it, folks. Thank you so much for tuning in. Thanks to our super producer, Paul, thanks to our super producer Casey, and thanks.

[Noel]

To Alex Williams, who composed our theme. Thanks to our research folk who we love dearly, Eve's Jeffcoat and Christopher Haciotes. And most importantly, thank you, Ben and thank you, Wayne. This has been the best.

[Ben]

Thank you, Noel, and thank you very much, Wayne. We are not blowing smoke about the history of Stand Up Up. Go check out the show. I mean, you will. Look, I, I think I said it earlier. I'm officially going to be insufferable at house parties.

[Noel]

You're already pretty insufferable at house parties, Ben.

[Ben]

That's what you know. That's why I only party in the yard.

[Noel]

You're going to take it to the next level?

[Ben]

Yeah, I'm going to go inside, so.

[Noel]

See you next time, folks.

[Buzz Aldrin]

Ciao.

[Noel]

For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime on the new podcast, America's Crime Lab. Every case has a story to tell and the DNA holds the truth.

[Noel]

He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha.

[Ben]

This technology is already solving so many cases.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Lithgow]

Hello, I'm John Lithgow.

[Buzz Aldrin]

We choose to go to the moon.

[John Lithgow]

I want to tell you about my new fiction podcast, One Small Step for Man, about Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space.

[Noel]

Your great pilot, Buzz the first.

[John Lithgow]

That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't. Buzz, starring me, John Lithgow, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Buzz Aldrin]

There's stuff they don't want you to know. Every Monday, we break down the news, make connections and reveal the stuff they don't want you to know.

[Ben]

A secret deal between members of Mexican cartels and the United States government.

[Noel]

Residents are reporting sightings of exploding birds.

[Ben]

Listen to stuff they don't want you to know on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you find your favorite shows.

[Wayne Fetterman]

If you're looking for another heavy podcast about trauma, this ain't it. This is for the ones who had to survive and still show up as brilliant, loud and soft and whole. The Unwanted Sorority is where black women, femmes and gender expansive survivors of sexual violence rewrite the rules on healing, support and what happens after. And I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Lea Tritate. Listen to the Unwanted Sorority. New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.