CLASSIC: Kidnapping, Binge Drinking and Costumes: Voter Fraud in the 1800s

Summary

Ridiculous History: CLASSIC - Kidnapping, Binge Drinking and Costumes: Voter Fraud in the 1800s

Released: February 8, 2025 | Hosts: Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown | Produced by iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction: The Wild West of 19th-Century Elections

In this classic episode of Ridiculous History, hosts Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown delve into the tumultuous and often bizarre landscape of voter fraud in the 1800s United States. They reveal how electoral corruption during this era surpassed modern allegations in both scale and absurdity, involving practices that ranged from forced drinking to elaborate disguises.

The Practice of Cooping: Kidnapping, Intoxication, and Disguises

Ben sets the stage with a hypothetical scenario illustrating the grim reality of "cooping," a prevalent form of voter fraud during the 19th century. He narrates:

“Imagine that you are in the 1800s and you're walking down the street, minding your own business, and you are kidnapped… [00:02:21].”

Noel adds depth to the conversation by describing how victims were not only forced to consume large amounts of alcohol but also made to wear various disguises to vote multiple times. Ben sarcastically remarks on the absurdity of the situation:

“How ridiculous is this? … we are going to put on an all blue or all red onesie. I’ve never seen anybody in a onesie before.” [00:21:27]

Political Machines and Tammany Hall: The Pillars of Corruption

The discussion transitions to the role of political machines, with a focus on the infamous Tammany Hall led by Boss Tweed. Noel explains how Tammany Hall entrenched its power by leveraging immigrant communities, particularly Irish immigrants:

“Tammany Hall reaches out, says, hey, we got you. If you got us, all of a sudden you own the vote, right?” [00:13:22]

Ben underscores the symbiotic relationship between these political entities and street gangs, highlighting the integration of organized crime into the electoral process:

“Cooping was inherently associated with political corruption… the people manning the polls were also in on the game.” [00:12:39]

Election Violence and Coercion: A Normalized Menace

Ben and Noel explore the extent of election-related violence, noting that coercion and intimidation were standard practices. Noel shares a striking account from a 19th-century book:

“Election Day in many towns and boroughs was characterized by riots and mob violence… fight fire with fire or gypsies with bargemen.” [00:28:18]

Ben reflects on the societal acceptance of such violence, pondering its normalization:

“Violence in voting in the 1800s was common enough that up to a point, it was just considered part of the voting process.” [00:22:11]

The Role of Alcohol: Liquid Courage or Liquid Corruption?

Alcohol played a significant role in facilitating cooping and voter manipulation. Noel cites an example involving George Washington, who provided vast quantities of alcoholic beverages to influence voters:

“George Washington himself understood that maybe you might need a little bit of liquid courage at the polls… gave voters at the polls 28 gallons of rum, 50 gallons of rum punch…” [00:23:32]

Ben humorously comments on the scale of alcohol distribution:

“He was not that wealthy, but he was onto something… All those gallons were total for the day. Not per person.” [00:23:51]

Systems of Control: Lack of Identification and Public Voting

The absence of stringent identification measures made it easier to commit voter fraud. Noel questions:

“Was there no means, or if only rudimentary means of confirming someone's identity when they were voting in these days?” [00:15:14]

Ben links this to contemporary debates over voter ID laws, highlighting the vulnerability of public voting systems to manipulation:

“There is a little misogyny in here, of course… if they couldn't man up against a little bit of rowdiness… then were they really even fit to vote?” [00:22:45]

Comparing Past and Present: Lessons and Legacies

The hosts draw parallels between historical voter fraud and modern-day electoral challenges. Ben references the introduction of the Australian ballot in the 1880s, which sought to mitigate such corruption by making votes secret:

“Until the introduction of what was called the Australian ballot in the 1880s… exactly.” [00:16:57]

Noel reflects on the enduring struggle for election integrity:

“We inherited this from our former rulers in the United Kingdom… it was just the thing to be expected.” [00:28:05]

The Intersection of Politics and Public Spectacle

Ben and Noel explore how political campaigns in the 1800s were as much about spectacle as governance. They discuss how public events like "jollification barbecues" and torch-lit rallies were integral to the electoral process:

“Our democracy was louder, meaner and merrier than it had ever been before… gaudy gonzo rituals.” [00:34:01]

Noel likens these events to modern political theatrics, drawing a humorous comparison to the film O Brother, Where Art Thou?:

“It makes me think of that scene in O Brother, Where Art Thou? … some of which we still see today, but much more cartoonish.” [00:34:48]

The Aftermath: Legal Repercussions and Public Perception

Despite widespread corruption, legal repercussions were rare due to the ingrained connections between political machines and the judiciary. Ben highlights a rare instance:

“There was a case in Adams County, Ohio… 1,690 voters, 26% of the electorate for selling their votes.” [00:26:54]

Noel and Ben discuss the public's hypocritical stance, where awareness of corrupt practices coexisted with tacit acceptance because such actions were so ubiquitous.

Conclusion: Reflecting on a Turbulent Electoral Past

As the episode concludes, Ben and Noel reflect on the evolution of electoral processes and the persistent issues surrounding voting integrity. They emphasize that while methods have changed, the fundamental challenges of ensuring a fair and honest election remain.

“If we have learned one thing from today's show, it's that no matter how much we knock the voting process today, it's way cooler now.” [00:39:46]

They advocate for continuous vigilance and public engagement to safeguard democratic institutions, drawing lessons from the extreme measures of the past to inform present and future electoral reforms.

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Notable Quotes:

• Ben Bowlin at [00:02:21]: “Imagine that you are in the 1800s and you're walking down the street, minding your own business, and you are kidnapped…”

• Noel Brown at [00:13:22]: “Tammany Hall reaches out, says, hey, we got you. If you got us, all of a sudden you own the vote, right?”

• Ben Bowlin at [00:22:45]: “If they couldn't man up against a little bit of rowdiness… then were they really even fit to vote?”

• Noel Brown at [00:23:32]: “George Washington himself understood that maybe you might need a little bit of liquid courage at the polls…”

• Ben Bowlin at [00:34:01]: “Our democracy was louder, meaner and merrier than it had ever been before… gaudy gonzo rituals.”

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Join the Conversation:

Ridiculous History invites listeners to engage with the podcast community through various platforms. Ben and Noel encourage audience participation in designing themed merchandise and joining their Facebook group to discuss historical insights and contemporary implications.

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About Ridiculous History:

Hosted by Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown, Ridiculous History uncovers the most bizarre, brutal, and beautiful stories from human civilization. Each episode explores unusual historical events with rich narratives and engaging discussions, making history both entertaining and enlightening.

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For more episodes and to join the Ridiculous History community, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Ben]

Oh, fellow ridiculous historians, we are returning to you with a weirdly apropos classic episode. You know, every time there's an election in these United States, there are also allegations of fraud.

[Noel]

It's true. This is what I like to refer to as the cooping episode.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah, we learned this word together. It turns out that no matter how rigged someone thinks an election may be in the U.S. in these, our modern days. Oh, folks, it was way crazier in the 1800s.

[Noel]

That's right. The idea of voter fraud is something that is very topical in this, our modern day. But once upon a time, these were much more than just allegations. People were being kidnapped off the streets and forced to drink intoxicating beverages and set loose at polling places and dressed in costumes. Yeah, under. Under threat of, at the very least, having their kneecaps banged up. It was a really, really rough time. Let's get right into it. Kidnapping, binge drinking and costumes. Voter fraud in the 1800s.

[Maria Tremarki]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarki]

Each season, we explore a new theme, from poisoners to to art thieves.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremarki]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Osvaloshin]

Do you want to see into the future? Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? Do you want to experience the frontiers of what makes us human? On tech stuff, we trav from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars, from conversations with Nobel prize winners to the depths of TikTok. To ask burning questions about technology, from high tech to low culture, and everywhere in between. Join us. Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartrad. Let's begin with a hypothetical scenario. Friends and neighbors, imagine that you are in the 1800s and you're walking down the street, minding your own, whether business or pleasure.

[Noel]

I'm doing it.

[Ben]

And you are kidnapped. You are accosted by a gang of ruffians. You were taken to a room where there are other hapless people like you. But instead of demanding a ransom from your loved ones or immediately torturing you or something like that, the kidnappers Their first move is to attempt to get.

[Noel]

You drunk, booze you up.

[Ben]

To booze you up. And we'll continue this story. But first let's pause for the introduction. Hello, I'm Ben.

[Noel]

I'm Noel. And you know the second thing they might have done, Ben, is maybe put on a false mustache upon your face or perhaps a straw hat, a top hat, any kind of hat, a funny nose maybe because they were trying to disguise you against your will for the purposes of perpetrating a voter fraud.

[Ben]

I feel like the badger could have stayed in the back for a second, but you are spot on. And how ridiculous is this? Oh, we have to remember to say hello. Won't you join us, friends and neighbors, fellow ridiculous historians, in tilting your hat to our super producer Casey Pecram? You're right, Noel. It seems strange to think of it because nowadays when we think of kidnapping, we think of, you know, nefarious crime, Right?

[Noel]

Yeah, we think of, you know, wealthy, or dare we say even middle class Americans traveling abroad in certain countries. Colombia got a pretty bad rap for this in years past and getting nabbed, you know, from tourist destinations and held ransom for the wealthy or middle class families back in America to send forth money for the release of said hapless dolt relatives who probably should have had their wits more about him. Now I'm victim blaming. What a way to start the episode.

[Ben]

No, no, no, no, no. I think this is a good place for us to carve out a distinction because you're absolutely right. Nowadays the first thing you think kidnapping is likely gonna be one of two things. You're going to think that someone is after money or you're going to think it may be some creep with seedy or sleazy intentions.

[Noel]

Yes, pervy preoccupations, there we go.

[Ben]

And I like the alliteration.

[Noel]

But let's not forget, Ben, that there is also political capital. Right?

[Ben]

Right. And this is apropos in this day and age because regardless of where you find yourself falling on either side of the the false dichotomy known as political parties here in the US or whether you are not in the US and you're a foreign observer, one thing you've probably noticed is that the concept of voter fraud has been making the headlines for the past few years.

[Noel]

It really has. Our current president made quite a to do about it when it was looking like he wasn't as much of a shoe in for the presidency as he might have liked to believe. And he started planting the seeds of widespread voter fraud. Illegals, unregistered undocumented immigrants, or corruption at.

[Ben]

The local level going to the polls.

[Noel]

In droves, or like you say, corruption at the local level. Now we have largely electronic voter machines. There was even talk of hackery, of voting machines.

[Ben]

Right, right through the Diebold connection.

[Noel]

Exactly. So there were a lot of red flags, at least as far as djt.

[Ben]

Right, right.

[Noel]

Was concerned. That's Donald J. Trump. That's how I'm going to refer to him.

[Ben]

The Commander in Chief. Yeah. And what's important to note here is that allegations of possible voter fraud came from all directions recently, but primarily from President Trump's crew or supporters. And for people who were critics of these allegations or accusations, this seemed like an unfounded worldview or conclusion. But regardless of what we think about the sanctity or the infallibility of the voting process today, whether you think it's rigged, whether you think it works. Okay. Or whatever, the true and strange fact of the matter is that back in the 1800s, in the 19th century, voter fraud was a huge thing, as I like to say.

[Noel]

Actually, my friend Frank likes to say, wide rife. And we stole that from a British television program. So that's, you know, three degrees of catchphrase thievery. But, yes, just widespread all over the place to the point where it was like a joke.

[Ben]

Right, right. The kidnapping that we described for you at the beginning of the show, were you to encounter that you would be taken in, in a practice called cooping, and this would be exactly what we described. A group of people kidnap you and several other folks attempt to get you drunk, and then con you verbally to go cast your vote for a certain political candidate.

[Noel]

And the thing was, Ben, that wasn't even, like, the full scenario. There were. There was another group involved in this process, and they were the ones who had already had their votes, like, bought and paid for by these different groups. And the whole, like, boozing and food situation, they just kind of got that as a perk.

[Ben]

Yeah. Like when you get the Cheez its and a little bit of juice after you give blood.

[Noel]

Exactly.

[Ben]

It's just a sort of a spoils of political war.

[Noel]

So I'm wondering if these were, like, combined into a single event.

[Ben]

Sometimes they were.

[Noel]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Sometimes they were. And the weird thing is when we describe it immediately, without context, to me personally, the idea of being kidnapped, given free booze, and then being told that I should go out and vote multiple times in an assortment of disguises.

[Noel]

Ridiculous disguises.

[Ben]

Sounds fantastic. I mean, yeah, dude, I'm a master disguise. I look like several different people.

[Noel]

Well, then you left out a crucial detail. You might have also been beaten.

[Ben]

That's true. We do have to examine that part, because this was all drunken, boozy fun and games and political crime. If the people who were being cooped agreed to play along, if they did not play ball, they were, as you said, Noel, beaten. And in some cases, they were killed.

[Noel]

Now, Ben, let's go back to the origins of this kind of behavior. Something we like to refer to in history as political machines.

[Ben]

Yeah, political machines. So you've probably heard this term before. You've heard it alluded to, at least in some very popular works of historical fiction in film and in novels. And a political machine is an organization that exists, typically on a city or state level, to maintain its own power and pursue its own interests, which are often going to be corrupt. For instance, a member of Political Machine A owns stock or has invested in a certain construction company. Then under this political machine, that construction company is going to get every bid, even if they are not as qualified, even if they're more expensive, even if they're more expensive on purpose. That, you know. And then that allows the machine to skim some graft off and off air. You and I have been talking about one of the most famous political machines in United States history.

[Noel]

Yeah. Most famous largely because it was one of the most effective and had one of the longest reigns. And that was Tammany hall, which I'm sure many of you have heard of. The infamous Tammany Hall. Boss. Pit boss, I guess, William M. Boss Tweed was his name. And they held sway, this organization, over New York City politics for decades. It was formed in 1789 and wasn't even fully dismantled until 1988, 1966. That was when John V. Lindsay, who was the final mayor that had had enough of this, he beat me, essentially rendered them, kind of neutered them. Right. Another famous New York city mayor, Fiorello Laguardia, also put a stop to them between 34 and 45. But then they kind of had a bit of a resurgence until Lindsay came in. And the closest thing that I can compare these political machines to, and this one in particular, is the way the bad rap we see unions getting. Whereas, like, obviously a union is a functional thing, obviously a political activist group has the potential to be a functional, positive thing, mobilizes support for certain candidates, certain causes that would benefit the community. But as we know with unions, the history, there was a lot of corruption there, too, that benefited particular stakeholders that had a lot to gain.

[Ben]

Yeah. And One of the big differences that we need to demarcate here is that in the case of activist groups, in the case of community organization, those voting blocs typically are going to be operating consensually with the support of the voters. And in comparison, though, cooping, this particular type of ridiculous voter fraud, cooping was inherently associated with. With obviously political corruption, but also with these political machines. And they themselves, if we return to the Tammany hall example, were intimately connected with on the street crime. You've seen Gangs of New York.

[Noel]

Absolutely. And one thing Tammany hall did, and the reason they were able to kind of persevere for so long, is they reached out to the most impoverished in the community, including immigrants, Irish immigrants in particular. And that's how the Irish got such a foothold in New York City politics over the years is because of this Tammany hall machine that elevated them to positions of prominence through their control of the electoral process. Right. And that also just gave them a groundswell of political support because there were a lot of immigrants coming into New York City all the time. And you get off the boat, Tammany hall reaches out, a helping hand, says, hey, we got you. If you got us, all of a sudden you own the vote, right?

[Ben]

Because who gave you the job? Who gave you the place to stay? Who set you up once you got off Ellis Island? There's a fantastic. We'd like to recommend from Atlas Obscura called Election fraud in the 1800s involved kidnapping and Forced drinking by author Natalie Zarrelli. And in this article, she includes a quote from a New York City gang leader named Mon Eastman. M O n. He said, I make half of the big politicians. Meaning that he was publicly acknowledging that he and his gang were working for Tammany Hall. Taking people by hook or by crook.

[Noel]

I make them like I'm a bookmaker. Like, I did that right.

[Ben]

Taking them by hook or by crook and cajoling them to vote multiple times. I keep going back to the costumes. I wonder if the costumes were any good, because at this level of corruption, the people manning the polls, and you can see some of these pictures, I think the people manning the polls were also in on the game.

[Noel]

Oh, well, get a kick out of this then, Ben. In an article from Matthew Mental Floss, Democracy's Dirty History, one of the coop bosses, I guess, is the term that was used here of Tammany Hall. He described the smartest way to get the most bang for your buck in terms of kidnapping these folks. He could get four votes out of one Human person. He had him vote one time with a full beard. Then again with some take off the beard, mutton chops, maybe keep the beard on. I'm not sure. Unclear. And then a third time, only a mustache. And then finally the coup de grace, the clean shaven vote. And I was actually talking with super producer Casey Pegram off air, and I wanted to ask this to you, Ben. Was there no means, or if only rudimentary means of confirming someone's identity when they were voting in these days? What was that like?

[Ben]

It's an interesting question. It's one that has echoes and consequences here in the modern day with the argument over voter ID cards.

[Noel]

Right. Which is a big problem with the Trump stuff we were talking about earlier. That was a big beef where a lot of places in the United States got rid of those voter ID laws because they are considered by many to be inherently racist.

[Ben]

Right. And as horrific and sad as it is, we have to. We would be remiss if we did not point out that one of the most immediate ways people at the polls or polling officials decided whether or not someone was qualified to vote was by observing the color of their skin.

[Noel]

That's right.

[Ben]

Which is a huge travesty. But in addition to that, we have to wonder if there were some sort of proof of residency, like an address perhaps. Because in these accounts of voter fraud, one thing that we don't see mentioned at all is any mention of paperwork involved. We just see disguises.

[Noel]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And obviously you could vote while you were rip roaring drunk.

[Noel]

Clearly. And the thing too is like, if the fix here, the scam was just to buy a bunch of fake mustaches and beard, they obviously didn't have a whole counterfeiting department, you know, stamping out fake passports or birth certificate documentation or anything like that. So it seems to me like it was a much more on a eyeball recognition and a handshake and a promise kind of in these days. Right?

[Ben]

Yeah. And here's something else weird. Until the introduction of what was called the Australian ballot in the 1880s, when you voted, your voting choice was public.

[Noel]

Viva voce.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

[Noel]

What is it with the human voice?

[Ben]

I believe the actual term. Yeah.

[Maria Tremarki]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarki.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarki]

Each season, we explore a new theme. Everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact.

[Maria Tremarki]

We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective.

[Holly Fry]

And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell.

[Maria Tremarki]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Osvaloshin]

Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? I'm Osvaloshin, one of the new hosts of the long running podcast Tech Stuff. I'm slightly skeptical but obsessively intrigued.

[Noel]

And I'm Cara Price, the other new host, and I'm ready to adopt early.

[Osvaloshin]

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[Ben]

How is it possible that the world's.

[Osvaloshin]

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[Ben]

This place where there's no electricity at night?

[Noel]

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[Osvaloshin]

So join us Listen to Tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Arturo Castro]

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[Noel]

Manson, Alcatraz, Assada Shakur, the sketchy guy named Steve.

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It's giving funny true crime.

[Noel]

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[Arturo Castro]

Listen and subscribe to Greatest escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Noel]

This is kind of where we see the start. Maybe not with the coercion and the kidnapping, but in the early days of democracy, voting was always a pretty contentious situation, because if you had to say in front of God and your PE and your township and everyone who you voted for, if they didn't agree with you, they might try to kick your ass.

[Ben]

Yeah. Try being the hopeful addition to that sentence there. Yeah. There's a article on History Extra called A Brief History of Election Rigging in the US that covers some of this. And the strange thing is that what we're describing is absolutely correct. So voters would line up to cast their ballots with party operatives on the side telling them to do the vote or trying to bribe them to do the vote or trying to talk them into or out of the vote.

[Noel]

That's why. Why do you think it's so important that we don't allow campaigning at polling places today?

[Ben]

Right.

[Noel]

Clearly an offshoot of this kind of behavior. Right?

[Ben]

Yeah. And it's still, in a strange way, look, the states are doing their collective best with the voting process, but there are still gang rules. I'm sure there are still people who wear a. Who say, okay, I can't support a political candidate, but let me wear an all blue or all red. I don't know, a onesie. I've never seen anybody in a onesie before.

[Noel]

But there's weird rules about that stuff, too. Like, you certainly couldn't. Definitely couldn't wear, like, a Vote for Hillary T shirt.

[Ben]

Heck, no.

[Noel]

But if you wore some kind of dog whistle thing, that let people know I'm watching you. And that's the thing, too. Trump actually encouraged. He said, okay, there's gonna be this widespread voter fraud. And he encouraged his supporters to, quote, keep an eye on the polls and maybe make people a little uncomfortable.

[Ben]

I had heard about that, too. And whether that resulted in physical activity on the ground, what remains inarguable is that this did not come straight out of the blue, straight out of left field. This has vast historical precedent here in the US violence in voting in the 1800s was common enough that up to a point, it was just considered part of the voting process.

[Noel]

It was just the thing. It was what to be expected, right? Yeah.

[Ben]

Yeah. And the logic was this. There's a little misogyny in here, of course. But the logic was, if a voter was not, quote unquote, manly enough to stand up for his chosen convictions and the candidate of his choice, then if they couldn't man up, as the case were, against a little bit of rowdiness, some fisticuffs, even some cajoling from supporters of other candidates, then were they really even fit to vote? That was the idea.

[Noel]

And it's interesting too, how alcohol plays a role in this from the start as well, even before the kidnapping and shoving fake mustaches on people's faces. In this mental Floss article, it references the fact that even George Washington himself understood that maybe you might need a little bit of liquid courage at the polls because of this whole idea of standing up for what you believed in. If you need to have your voice be louder than the opposition, you might need to be a little tanked before you do this. And he ran for the Virginia House of burgesses in 1758 and gave voters at the polls 28 gallons of rum, 50 gallons of rum punch, 34 gallons of wine, 46 gallons of beer, and 2 gallons of hard cider.

[Ben]

No mention on whether he distributed his famous eggnog.

[Noel]

No. But he did talk about. He did use the expression swilling the planters with bumbo, which is a pretty tasty sounding yet boozy cocktail consisting of rum, water, sugar, nutmeg and optional cinnamon.

[Ben]

And I do want to point out, for everyone who might have had the question, all those gallons you heard about, those were total for the day. Those were not per person.

[Noel]

That's right.

[Ben]

He was not that wealthy, but he was onto something. This was common in the 1800s. The practice of cooping it had a timeline that we should mention. They weren't kidnapping people on the day of voting. They were kidnapping them, like up to two or three days before and keeping them in a windowless basement against their will. Against their will. Or maybe not. I don't know. They probably pulled a lot of homeless people too.

[Noel]

That's a good point.

[Ben]

We were happy to have a warm place to stay.

[Noel]

What a nightmare.

[Ben]

But here's the thing. This is so off topic, but this reminded me of a story a Russian friend of mine told me about a really disturbing game. And please, fellow Russian ridiculous historians let us know if this is an actual thing, because I have always been captivated about this. Noel. It's a game called Submarining.

[Noel]

Go on.

[Ben]

So it doesn't even sound like a game to me. I don't entirely understand the point.

[Noel]

Does it involve sandwiches?

[Ben]

Kind of. The story is this, that a group of people would get together. And again, I heard this from a Russian friend who was telling me about Russian games. A group of People get together, they'll get an apartment and they'll nail up planks or black out all the windows, and they'll get locked in with, like, cold cuts and bread. Absolute darkness and just a ton of booze, like hard liquor. And they'll be in there for days in total dark, just drinking and eating cold cuts. And one person who's also not in the game comes by later to unlock the door and let them out. That sounds incredibly disturbing to me.

[Noel]

Wow. Is this sort of like a battle royale with, like, sandwich meats and booze kind of situation?

[Ben]

I have no idea. Because, you know, what are they expecting.

[Noel]

To find when they come let them out?

[Ben]

I have no idea. Idea. Maybe it's a spiritual, revelatory thing. But what was happening with cooping was uncomfortably close to that. And since there were so many people in on it, the law or the legal system was really hard pressed to impose some kind of consequence for this, because the people who were rigging the vote were the people who were in charge of giving the yay or nay to a judge. So for a judge, it's political suicide in many cases, especially in New York at the time, to stand up against this.

[Noel]

Did you read the bit about how election poll workers were also at risk, Ben, of one thing that I saw was having their coffee spiked with laxatives so that they, quote, would be otherwise engaged during the most important phase of the count. This is again from that mental Floss article by AJ Jacobs. So no one was safe. None were safe back.

[Ben]

Yeah, none. And as a matter of fact, the public had a bit of hypocrisy about this because people were aware of and disgusted by this practice, specifically cooping, but corruption overall in domestic politics. But it was so common, so baked in, that we found accounts of it happening in multiple states, not just in New York. And this practice continued through the end of the 19th century. They also had cases in 1910. There was one in Adams County, Ohio, where a judge. This is a little unusual, actually brought to trial and convicted. Get this. 1,690 voters, 26% of the electorate of the county for selling their votes. And again, we have to wonder, were the voters in question falling for a more gentle Washingtonian bribery scam, or was it a more violent, nice farm be ashamed if something happened to him.

[Noel]

Something happened to him. Boss Tweed kind of vibe. Yeah. And, Ben, I was surprised. Yeah, not surprised. It makes perfect sense that we inherited this from our former rulers in the United Kingdom.

[Ben]

Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah.

[Noel]

This cooping was part of their electoral process as well. And I found a delightful passage from a book called Knowing Right from the Insanity defense of Daniel McNaughton that describes cooping in English elections in 1834. And here goes this story from this book by Richard Moran. Quote, if bribery and improper influence failed to persuade reluctant voters they wanted them to vote Tory, there was always violence and intimidation. The practice of cooping or abducting an opponent's supporters until after the election was nearly universal. Consequently, cooping one's own supporters and keeping them locked up in a public house, a pub, until it was time to vote developed as a defensive response. Here's the best part, where you had these factions war it was not uncommon for large groups of drunken voters to be escorted under guard to the polling place in Ireland where wholesale cooping took place. Refusal to surrender to what one historian has called ceremonious abduction carried with it the full wrath of the landlords, the barkeeps. He goes on to say how people who manage the campaigns actually hired these gangs of what are deemed bullies to intimidate and physically abuse voters. And then he goes on to say, Election Day in many towns and boroughs was characterized by riots and mob violence. At Hertford, the Tory candidate Lord Ingestre and Lord Mohan employed a band of gypsies to harass radical voters. The radical candidate, Thomas Duncombe, retaliated by hiring 150 ware bargemen. So, you know, fight fire with fire or gypsies with bargemen.

[Maria Tremarki]

Welcome to the Criminalia podcast. I'm Maria Tremarki.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarki]

Each season we explore a new theme. Everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact.

[Maria Tremarki]

We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective.

[Holly Fry]

And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell.

[Maria Tremarki]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Osvaloshin]

Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? I'm Osvaloshin, one of the new hosts of the long running podcast Tech Stuff. I'm slightly skeptical but obsessively intrigued.

[Noel]

And I'm Cara Price, the other new host and I'm ready to adopt early.

[Osvaloshin]

And often on Tech Stuff. We travel all all the way from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars to the dark corners of TikTok to ask and attempt to answer burning questions about technology.

[Noel]

One of the kind of tricks for surviving Mars is to live there long enough so that people evolve into Martians. Like data is a very rough proxy for a complex reality.

[Ben]

How is it possible that the world's.

[Osvaloshin]

New energy revolution can be based in.

[Ben]

This place where there's no electricity?

[Noel]

Oz and I will cut through the noise to bring you the best conversations and deep dives that will help you understand how tech is changing our world and what you need to know to survive the singularity.

[Osvaloshin]

So join us, listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Arturo Castro]

Hi, I'm Arturo Castro and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and Narcos and Roadhouse and so many commercials about background pain. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough. Get ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians to tell them a buck wild tale from across history and time. People like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, Joseph Gordon Levitt and Zoe Chao.

[Noel]

Titanic, Charles Manson, Alcatraz, Assata Shakur, the sketchy guy named Steve.

[Arturo Castro]

It's giving funny true crime.

[Noel]

I love storytelling and I love you. So I can't wait.

[Arturo Castro]

Listen and subscribe to Greatest escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben]

There was also a an intensely close and I would think much more publicly acknowledged link between politics and entertainment, which to a degree helps us contextualize this practice. So public politics had a ton of drinking involved at the time. There were a lot of torch lit rallies and there were things called jollification barbecues.

[Noel]

That sounds like fun, right? I wanna be jollified.

[Ben]

And in an article riling up the Shrewd Wild Boys by Jon Grinspan, we explore some of the differences between then and today. So during the peak of American campaign excitement, he writes, our democracy was louder, meaner and merrier than it had ever been before. Populist campaigners perfected the art of political show business, a genre. And he gets his licks in here. That seems to be making a comeback. He's writing in 2012. Sure prescient, right?

[Noel]

Yeah. If only he knew.

[Ben]

Right. And so from 1840 through 1900, he says these, these types of campaigns did select people who would lead the government at this stage, unanimously all men. But they also were the best show in town. These were gaudy gonzo rituals and people would go apolitical, people would go just because it was great food, tons of cheap or free booze. And then there were shows, there was singing, there was partying, there were the pretty much diss tracks of the time, which were these fiery invectives against those monsters and traitors or, or they would sometimes say perhaps not entirely American opponents.

[Noel]

Oh yeah, you know what it makes me think of that scene in oh Brother, where Art Thou? Where it's, you know, is you is or is you ain't my constituency? And he has like dwarves and it's all like this crazy smoke and mirrors, kind of like P.T. barnum esque atmosphere with banners and parades and all this stuff, you know, some of which we still see today, but much more cartoonish, to borrow your word of choice there.

[Ben]

Thank you. It's a go to. Well, here's the thing though, because we're talking about this practice, which was wild, which was common, which was real. But we have ignored up to this point the fact that several great and acclaimed US politicians were alive and active during this time and they were also doing the same sort of thing. Maybe not cooping, but politicians themselves encouraged it. We even have a record of Abraham Lincoln in the 1840s planning what he thought would be a great party. That headline, Wild Shrewd Boys, comes from his letter that he wrote.

[Noel]

That sounds like a really cool party crew, the Wild Shrewd Boys.

[Ben]

It does. I would love to see them at a house party, so long as it was not my house.

[Noel]

And as you mentioned earlier, Ben, there was a time where, you know, you poll workers would know whether it was okay for someone to vote or not simply by looking at the color of their skin, you know, seeing if they were in fact or not white. But then we have emancipation in the late 1860s. So we have that fantastic article from historyextra.com that talks about the plight of African Americans after this period in time, and especially in the South. There was a sense that even though black men did receive the franchise, their very presence at these elections was seen as an affront to the election process and that they were somehow plants from, you know, northern Yankee carpetbagger scum trying to rig the election in their union loving fake favor and gross, gross stuff again. Yeah, that Izzy is or is you ain't my constituency stuff comes to mind.

[Ben]

Right.

[Noel]

So a long, hard fought battle to where we are now with elections, which clearly people still have some issues with. I don't think we're ever going to be fully comfortable with something as important as the election process. Because I've always wondered, why don't they just put it all online? There's an answer to that from purists, right?

[Ben]

Well, yeah, but then again, it's something that has two answers. One from the realm of idealism and one from the realm of, well, how low can people go, morally speaking? The thing is, there is always someone who can go lower than you in the game of morality limbo. I'm actually happy with that. Oh, I love that a lot of these comparisons don't work because you and I are shooting from the hip, but that one wasn't that bad.

[Noel]

No, man, well done.

[Ben]

Should we put it on a T shirt?

[Noel]

Hey, what do you say? Ridiculous Historians? We do have a new T shirt shop coming up at Teepublic, if you haven't heard of it, where they do this thing where we can drum up a catchphrase design in two shakes of a lamb's tail. So if you guys want some unique short run ridiculous history catchphrase tees or hoodies or throw pillows. Sure, let us know.

[Ben]

Parkas. I don't know, we're just making stuff up or let us know what you what you think.

[Noel]

Bunny hugs.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. Wallets. JNCO jeans.

[Noel]

I don't think they make those anymore, dude. I think it's over for JNCO Jeans.

[Ben]

Somebody still has a pair. I'm sure we would like to hear your ideas for that. I think we're already both pretty much sold on son of a Fish and ship show shirts, respectively. But we want to hear your designs and ideas when what would be a cool T shirt? This is so new and strange to us. I think we're going to get very weird with it.

[Noel]

Yeah. And the best place to do that, if you don't want to just email us [e-mail] is to hit us up on our Facebook group, the Ridiculous Historians, which you can join via your mobile or desktop Facebook app. And we've got a cool little community there and we hop in there and hang and chat every now and then. So maybe we could do a poll.

[Ben]

Ben, I want to. So this is the idea I proposed. Noel, you have. You can confirm that you have not heard about this until we're on air. But I'd like to do maybe one poll a week on Ridiculous Historians. Just about stuff. We could do a poll, for instance, on vote for a favorite T shirt concept. We could also do a poll on questions about where you and your fellow listeners stand on a particular topic brought up in an episode. Because if we have learned one thing from today's show, it's that no matter how much we knock the voting process today, it's way cooler now.

[Noel]

Yeah, you should do it. It's important. Especially, you know, on our Facebook page.

[Ben]

Yeah. Be the change start on Ridiculous Historians. Let us know. You can also find us on Twitter, you can find us on Instagram where we are some variety of ridiculous history or ridiculous history show.

[Noel]

And if you want to see us live in the flesh, in person, in human form, we will be at the Trocadero theater in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on July 1, 4:00pm alongside our buddies Will and Mango from Part Time Genius. And we're going to do our first ever live show. And we're super stoked about it.

[Ben]

Yeah. Wish us luck. Come cheer us on or laugh at us in person. Because one thing we can promise you is that there are several surprises in store. But what are they? No spoilers. You'll have to tune in.

[Noel]

None spoilers. But hey, we'll see you there. Or next time on another episode of Ridiculous History. Take care, everyone. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Maria Tremarki]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarki]

Each season we explore a new theme. From poisoners to art thieves.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremarki]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Osvaloshin]

Do you want to see into the future? Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? Do you want to experience the frontiers of what makes us human? On from tech stuff we travel from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars, from conversations with Nobel Prize winners to the depths of TikTok to ask burning questions about technology, from high tech to low culture and everywhere in between. Join Us Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.