CLASSIC: Marie Antoinette and the Diamond Necklace Hoax

Summary

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Ridiculous History — "CLASSIC: Marie Antoinette and the Diamond Necklace Hoax"

Podcast: Ridiculous History — iHeartPodcasts
Hosts: Ben Bowlin, Noel Brown
Original Air Date: June 27, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this glitzy "classic" episode, Ben and Noel unravel the outrageous and labyrinthine 18th-century caper known as the Affair of the Diamond Necklace, a scandal that helped hasten the fall of Marie Antoinette and stoked the flames of the French Revolution. Blending their trademark conversational banter, accessible scholarship, and love for the “ridiculous,” the hosts explore how a conniving grifter, a lovesick cardinal, a gullible jeweler, and a well-coached “queen” orchestrated one of Europe’s most absurd and consequential hoaxes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Marie Antoinette and a Reputation in Ruins

• Setting the Stage (08:21):
  The story unfolds in France, late summer of 1785, as a "scandal" (deliberately pronounced scandal-uh for effect by the hosts) grips Europe: popular whispers claim Marie Antoinette tricked her own crown jewelers out of an exorbitant diamond necklace.
• Carats and Stones (08:50):
  The necklace itself was "absolutely immeasurable," sporting around 650 diamonds and weighing an astounding 2,800 carats.

  “You gotta shine, you gotta sparkle, you gotta snap, crackle, pop. If you’re royalty, you go to diamonds.” – Ben (09:41)

• Marie vs. Cardinal de Rohan (10:05):
  The queen’s antagonism toward Cardinal de Rohan is central. He claims she secretly authorized the purchase via letter and arranged clandestine meetings, despite their mutual dislike (09:57–11:20).

The Main Players — Intrigue, Grift & Ambition

• Principal Characters (13:02):
  1. Marie Antoinette: The embattled, misunderstood queen.
  2. Cardinal de Rohan: Eager for royal favor, hoping to become Prime Minister; already on bad terms with Marie.
  3. Jeanne de la Motte (Comtesse de la Motte Valois): Ambitious noblewoman, descended from French royalty's illegitimate branch, desperate to restore her fortunes.

     “She had a terrible childhood ... more and more destitute, and her ambition to establish herself as legitimate seemed worse and worse and worse.” – Ben (15:16)

  4. The Jewelers: Boehmer and Bassenge, creators and would-be sellers of the infamous necklace.

Motives, Conspiracies, and Hoaxes

• Obsession with Hoaxes (08:02):

  “I think I just get obsessed with things. ... I’m fascinated with hoaxes. I’m going through a hoax thing.” – Ben

• Jeanne’s Ambition and Maneuvering (16:17–18:08):
  Jeanne meets Rohan, likely becomes his lover, and feigns access to Queen Marie, inventing stories—like fainting in the Queen’s presence or claiming to broker reconciliation—to manipulate the cardinal.

The Elaborate Deception

• Fake Friendship & Forged Letters (17:18–19:35): Jeanne feeds Rohan increasingly hopeful messages about the Queen’s forgiveness, escalating correspondence (forged by her hand) and promising political advancement.
• Setting Up the Meeting (25:54–32:03):
  To cement the illusion, Jeanne enlists Nicole Le Guay, a sex worker who resembles Marie Antoinette, to impersonate the Queen for a shadowy nighttime "meeting" in the gardens at Versailles.

  “She is all about it. She’s freaked out. She’s going to meet one of the most powerful people in her country ... she is roughly a million percent on board, hook, line, and sinker.” – Ben (31:09)

The Night in the Gardens

• The Staged Rendezvous (32:03–35:01):
  The cardinal, dressed for subterfuge, is told by Jeanne that the Queen will meet him (with plausible excuses for delays). In the darkness, Nicole (as Marie) presents him with a rose, echoing staged cinematic drama.

  "It’s just the kind of thing out of, like, a heist movie, or at least some kind of, you know, grand caper …" – Noel (30:32)

The Necklace Exchange & The Scandal Breaks

• The Jewelers’ Dilemma (37:11–44:46):
  Jeanne uses Rohan’s trust to acquire the necklace under the Queen’s supposed authority, promising payment in installments. The jewelers are ecstatic they’ve finally found a buyer, only to realize payment is never imminent—Jeanne absconds with the necklace.
• The Queen is Clueless (44:24):
  Marie Antoinette is blindsided, having no knowledge of the transaction. Her confusion as the jewelers press for payment is clear comic tragedy.

  “The queen doesn’t know what’s going on, so she just shreds her mail. ‘What’s this nonsense? Put it right in the royal shredder.’” – Ben (44:48)

The Fallout: Public, Legal, and Personal Ruin

• Exposure & Aftermath (45:23–49:49):
  The scam is exposed—Rohan is arrested in Versailles’ Hall of Mirrors and stands trial. Shockingly acquitted, he nevertheless loses his titles. Jeanne is branded, flogged, sentenced to life in prison (yet later escapes to England and publishes defamatory memoirs). Marie Antoinette, though utterly innocent, finds her reputation destroyed and becomes the symbolic scapegoat for royal excess.

  “She may have won in the court of the law, but she has failed in the court of public opinion.” – Ben (46:09) “This just cements that reputation for utter moral bankruptcy... Like they are so clueless, so out of touch.” – Noel (48:05)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Absurdity of Power Dynamics:

  “It was sort of like that Justin Bieber song, ‘My Mama don’t like you and she likes everyone.’” – Ben (13:41)

• Farcical Court Intrigue:

  “It’s like Cheryl Crow picking us to deliver her next guitar.” – Ben (10:27)

• On How the Fraudster Convinced Her Accomplice:

  “I have the Queen’s confidence. She and I are as close as two fingers of a hand.” – Jeanne, paraphrased by Noel (28:16)

• Summing Up the Moral of the Story:

  “Everybody likes a good diamond heist. Everybody likes a good hoax.” – Ben (49:47)

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Important Timestamps

• 08:21–09:41: Introduction to the necklace and main characters
• 14:58–16:17: Jeanne’s background and desperate circumstances
• 17:18–19:36: Jeanne forges relationship with the cardinal
• 25:54–32:03: The fake Queen, the staged meeting in Versailles
• 37:11–44:46: The necklace handoff and Jeanne’s escape with it
• 45:23–49:49: Legal fallout, public scandal, and reputational damage

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Tone & Flow

Ben and Noel’s conversation moves briskly between historical color, comedic asides, and relatable pop-culture analogies (Justin Bieber, Cheryl Crow, Game of Thrones, The Wire, heist movies). Their approachable narrative style welcomes listeners with little prior knowledge, guiding them through the convoluted plot with a mix of genuine curiosity and tongue-in-cheek commentary.

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Takeaways

• The scandal, though absurd, was deadly serious in its repercussions, fueling public resentment against the monarchy in the critical years before the French Revolution.
• Marie Antoinette never uttered “let them eat cake,” but her image as frivolous and morally detached was cemented by this very public and ridiculous hoax.
• Even when entirely innocent, the powerful (or those in public view) can be destroyed by rumors, scandal, and wider social resentment.

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Recommended for:
Fans of courtroom drama, true crime, historical scandals, palace intrigue, and anyone who loves to see history’s absurdity brought vividly (and hilariously) to life.

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For more:
Join the Ridiculous Historians Facebook group and let Ben and Noel know your favorite heist stories—or your takes on the mythology of Marie Antoinette!

Transcript

[Ben Bullen]

Welcome back, fellow ridiculous historians. We are returning to you with a. A very glitzy classic episode.

[Noel Brown]

We sure are very glitzy and glammy. And Marie Antoinetti. Let them eat cakey. Okay, she didn't say that, but it's still fun to talk about. We are talking about a bit of a heist today. A bit of a bit of. What do they call that? Court intrigue? Castle intrigue, sure.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. Marie Antoinette had, like so many royals and celebrities of her day, she always was fighting against gossip and scuttlebutt. And by 1784, public opinion was not 100% on board with her. It became completely ruined by allegations that she conned her own own crown jewelers out of this crazy expensive diamond necklace.

[Noel Brown]

This sounds about right. Let's jump right into the stories, shall we?

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[Ben Bullen]

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[Ben Bullen]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.

[Noel Brown]

It's the rage bait.

[Ben Bullen]

It feels like it's trying to divide people. We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little bit. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.

[Noel Brown]

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[Ben Bullen]

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Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartrad.

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Foreign.

[Ben Bullen]

Welcome back to the show Ridiculous Historians. My name is Ben, and I'd like to welcome back one of my favorite people ever. Folks, let's say hi to Noel Brown.

[Noel Brown]

Wait a minute. What was I going? Oh, you're right, I was gone. I felt really rough about that. I realized it was the first time that I had had to be out of a Ridiculous History episode. We do another show together. Folks may know stuff they don't want you to know or were graced with Matt Frederick. So being out of that one's not a big deal. I can play hooky occasionally from that one, but not this one, my friend. Not this one.

[Ben Bullen]

Well, you were sorely missed. And we have so much to catch up on about the Black Plague in Norway. And then. Oh, and also, shout out to our super producer, Casey Pegram, who was with us.

[Noel Brown]

He was there the whole time.

[Ben Bullen]

Casey, what was that other one we did with Christopher Haciotes? Oh, God, Ben, this is the worst question because we never remember what we did 10 minutes ago. That's true. We had the Black Plague and then we had the Grifter, right? Oh, that's right. Right. Yes, the Grifter Prisoner.

[Noel Brown]

Susanna. Right? Yeah, I saw the emails. I was cc'd on those emails.

[Ben Bullen]

So you remember the episode that you did do Better or at least with more clarity than we did. Well, folks, never fear. As we said, Noel was on some adventures. Some stuff will be revealed in time. Very glad to have you back, my guy.

[Noel Brown]

I'm really glad to be back. And I wanna say when I said I can't be absent from this show, neither one of us can. Well, that's not entirely true because we have the wonderful, incredible, very smart and well spoken Christopher Haciotes, who stepped in beautifully. And I'm so appreciative that he was able to do that and I was able to have my adventures and guilt free for the most part.

[Ben Bullen]

And he's not only hilarious, but that guy's got a jawline for days. He's got a Thor Avengers jawline.

[Noel Brown]

Boy, does he ever. And a fantastic haircut and really good taste in food.

[Ben Bullen]

I hope you're hearing this, Christopher. Yeah, it is true, though. He, professionally speaking, has great taste in food.

[Noel Brown]

I want to get something air out, something right now. Before we get started in the show, there was a little bit of a Facebook message thread that was going on between me and Christopher yesterday about the movie Mandy. I chimed in on a discussion about one of the episodes you guys did. I believe it was the Black Plague one because Christopher said that he absolutely hated Mandy and thought it was a terrible movie. And then he actually, in a later exchange, texted me. They titled it Mandy, but a better name would have been man Deezer. 100 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

[Ben Bullen]

Wow.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. So I chimed in on the thread and said, you're dead to me, Christopher Haciotes, dead, all caps. And then I wanted to clarify that he's not actually dead to me. That's just a movie that I kind of go to bat for kind of a lot on shows.

[Ben Bullen]

We're on the same page. I'm one of the people who got it in the theaters here.

[Noel Brown]

Exactly. I know for sure. And I know, I know you're on my team, you're on team Mandy. But it's a hill that I tend to die on because a lot of people that movie was not for everybody, but apparently not our boy Christopher. But I will not hold it against him. And he is, in fact, not dead to me, but very much alive.

[Ben Bullen]

We're very much on the same page about things. Noel, I like that you're picking up Hill to die on. I've been using that for a few months and I want it to be back in popular parlance.

[Noel Brown]

Well, you are what they call an arbiter of culture and language. My friends.

[Ben Bullen]

An arbiter.

[Noel Brown]

Yes, sir.

[Ben Bullen]

I think I just get obsessed with things. I've also been going through this phase where I'm somewhat obsessed or I'm fascinated with hoaxes. I'm going through a hoax thing. You like a good hoax? No.

[Noel Brown]

Who doesn't like a good hoax, Ben?

[Ben Bullen]

People who get hoaxed.

[Noel Brown]

Everybody else loves it. Yeah, exactly.

[Ben Bullen]

So where does our story take us today? We are traveling to France. We're traveling to France not in these, our modern days, but in the late summer of 1785, where Europe is gripped by a scandal. Everybody is watching the news. This is a thank God there's no Twitter moment, right?

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. If I'm trying to bring anything back or at least make something happen, it's pronouncing the word scandal as scandal. And this was one of those, to be sure. This involved a couple of important things. One, the center of this scandal was a diamond necklace of absolutely immeasurable value. Well, it was measurable, but it was pretty massive because it contained something in the neighborhood of 650 stones. And it weighed 2,800 carrots, which is a weight, as it turns out. I guess I didn't quite realize that, Ben. So it's not just gold that comes in carrots?

[Ben Bullen]

No. Emeralds, rubies, precious stones, pearls as well. Nowadays, when you hear a carrot, it was a bit loosey goosey back in the glory days of the late 1700s. But nowadays a carrot is about 200 milligrams. And by about, I mean exactly 200 milligrams.

[Noel Brown]

And what kind of. What were the stones in question in this particular piece of ostentatious jewelry?

[Ben Bullen]

Diamonds. Diamonds, buddy. All diamonds. You gotta shine, you gotta sparkle, you gotta snap, crackle, pop. If you're royalty, you go to diamonds. And this diamond, made by the crown jewelers Bowmer and Basanj, had gone missing.

[Noel Brown]

Missing? You say missing. I say was there some sort of heist or. How does a piece of jewelry of such price go missing?

[Ben Bullen]

They say we have sold this to Marie Antoinette through an intermediary, the Cardinal de Rohan. She denies any involvement. Marie, that is. And everybody knew she hated the cardinals. She thought he was a real pill.

[Noel Brown]

She never would have made him her intermediary or used him as some kind of go between. Right?

[Ben Bullen]

No.

[Noel Brown]

And he denies this.

[Ben Bullen]

It's like Cheryl Crow picking us to deliver her next guitar.

[Noel Brown]

Now, we made nice with Cheryl.

[Ben Bullen]

I love Sheryl Crow. I love Sheryl Crow.

[Noel Brown]

Have I talked about how much I love the bongos on every day as a winding road I think that is a really, really important use of bongos in popular music.

[Ben Bullen]

I think she's a brilliant songwriter and I wish she would stop sending so much hate mail.

[Noel Brown]

It's really getting out of control.

[Ben Bullen]

But anyway, they had Marie Antoinette and the Cardinal de Rohan had this. Had this kind of ridiculous history, Cheryl Crow thing. And the question was, why would Maui have asked the cardinal to act on her behalf?

[Noel Brown]

Oh, and I got it wrong. Rohan did not deny it. Quite the opposite. He claimed to have had written in the Queen's own hand a letter instructing him to carry out this transaction.

[Ben Bullen]

And she, you know, she publicly despised the guy and she said that she wasn't involved. But now he's saying he has, as you said, written documentation. And he doubled down on this. Right. He said also, furthermore, a year ago, not only did she write and sign this contract for sale that is in my possession, but a year before that, she met me in secret at Versailles,

[Noel Brown]

in the garden of Versailles. It's true. Why all the cloak and daggery, Ben? Why all the clandestine ness?

[Ben Bullen]

Lay it on me, man. Why?

[Noel Brown]

Well, here's the thing. It caught the imagination of the public. It became like this kind of. This whole affair involving this necklace became this like almost theatrical kind of charade. Right? But here's the thing. It had real consequences that resonated through the French Revolution.

[Ben Bullen]

Absolutely. We should introduce another character here in this story. So we've got our players. We've got Mouil Antoinette, and we've got Cardinal Rohan, the Grand Almoner of France. Almander almoner. Okay, not that fun. A L M O N E R.

[Noel Brown]

I thought he was just like a proprietor of like tasty almonds.

[Ben Bullen]

He's in charge of all the almonds in France. You know, every single one goes through him. And at the time, fun fact, ridiculous historians, you know how barbers were also qualified to be surgeons. People in charge of almonds were also qualified to be in charge of diamonds because they're both sort of small and stone.

[Noel Brown]

Like, I think qualified is probably a strong word.

[Ben Bullen]

Qualified as. But I see where you're going with this.

[Noel Brown]

So let's. So let's lay it out here. Let's. Let's lay out the players up to this point. You just did the two main ones. We also have the. The jewelers Bowmer and Basanj, who kind of take a back seat. There's a really great article about this. It's called the Necklace that Cost Marie Antoinette her Life.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Noel Brown]

And that was in the Telegraph and in it they talk about how, from his place of exile on Saint Helena, Napoleon actually kind of weighed in on this. After Marie Antoinette met her untimely demise.

[Ben Bullen]

Spoiler alert.

[Noel Brown]

She died. It's true. Yeah, it's in the movie. The queen's death, he said, must be dated from the diamond necklace trial.

[Ben Bullen]

So Cardinal de Rohan was desperately trying to get into Moliere, Antoinette's inner circle. And the problem with this was that Moee's mother had warned her not to mess with Cardinal de Rohan. So it was sort of like that Justin Bieber song, My Mama don't like you and she likes everyone.

[Noel Brown]

Exactly. Exactly like that.

[Ben Bullen]

It was exactly like that. And he was struggling. He had been caught making fun of Maui Antoinette in 1771. It was literally like he made a funny meme about her. And that got back to her. So she swore never to speak to him again. And he thought his career was over. He thought he would never get a shot at chief minister, which is the position he really wanted. Until, that is, he met another character, one of the pivotal characters in today's story. And although her name is Jean, as far as I can say it, I've got to defer to you, Kayce. How do we pronounce her title? It would actually be Jeanne, because she's got two N's and an E. Jeanne. Comtesse de la Motte Valois. De la Motte Valois.

[Noel Brown]

We'll just call her Jean. Jean. Is that okay? All right, we'll call her Jean. John. Like a. Like a John. An un. Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Bullen]

Like Jeanne d' Arc or something.

[Noel Brown]

All right. Casey on the case, big time. But, yeah, I'm never. Whenever. I'm never gonna be able to repeat any of that. So Jean, from here. From here on.

[Ben Bullen]

Yes. She was descended from an illegitimate branch of the Valois family, the royal family. And this was the dynasty that came before the Bourbons. And she had a terrible childhood. Her father was a hardcore alcoholic. Her mother totally ghosted on her. She was taken in by an aristocratic family outside of Paris. But then she came back when she was an adult to champagne. And she was intent on getting her family land back. And then that plan fell through. She married a guy named Nicolas de la Mort. They went to Paris to try to get people to back them up, and it didn't really work. They got more and more destitute, and her ambition to establish herself as legitimate seemed worse and worse and worse. So she is in dire straits as well when she meets Cardinal Rohan.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, it's true. And this becomes a real Turning point. When she meets Rohan, he was kind of into her and didn't really have any problem showing that he gave her money. And it's very likely that they became lovers despite his, I guess, vow of celibacy. Right. Isn't that a thing for a cardinal? Isn't that a. No, no.

[Ben Bullen]

You know, it's like everybody is supposed to use turn signals.

[Noel Brown]

That's also true. And jaywalking is technically a crime. He told her that in order to restore her patrimony that she needed to go directly to the Queen. But as we said earlier, the Queen was not a fan of Rohan. He was sort of like a Littlefinger type character. You know, he was very considered, kind of slimy and backstabbing by her because of his talking out of school. And so this was not necessarily going to be something that he could help his new young lady friend with because he really had no pull.

[Ben Bullen]

Right, right. He had no juice, no suction, as they say in the wire. So Jean, we can only imagine, says, you know what this plan needs to really just make it pop is a little bit of theatricality. Right. Let's go to the theater with it. So she waits in the mirrored gallery of Versailles on Candlemas in 1784. And when the Queen walks by, Jeanne swoons and she is clutching her petition to get her land restored to her chest. And she's hoping that the Queen will see her fall out, you know, and that she will say, oh, no, who is this beautiful put upon fainting woman and how can I help her? So she. She essentially, she fakes fainting and the Queen walks right by and never asks who fainted. But this is not what she tells the cardinal. Instead, she tells her lover, the cardinal, that the Queen had taken pity on her, had noticed, and that they had become BFFs Biffles, that they had become best friends forever Biffles. And Maui Antoinette was the kind of person who had this track record. It was totally within her MO to find and sort of adopt people. And she was somewhat reclusive despite this. So a lot of the people in court didn't really know her day to day circle of friends. And so now the tables have turned. Now the Cardinal is begging Jean to broker some kind of, I guess, peace agreement with the Queen. You know, like, sorry about that meme, sorry you found that funny note about you I was passing around. Let's be cool. And she agreed. And there was an increasing correspondence between the Cardinal and Moyo. And the Queen promised apparently that he would eventually be Prime Minister.

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I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.

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It's the rage bait.

[Ben Bullen]

It feels like it's trying to divide people. We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from There. NBC News. Reporting for America, this is Jenny Garth

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[Noel Brown]

Okay, there's a lot going on here.

[Ben Bullen]

There's a lot.

[Noel Brown]

I want to take a little aside just because I was looking into this while you were talking Candle Mass. It's a holiday that I was not familiar with. That is the day in which this original meeting took place. And it has a fantastic extended name. First of all, it is the name of the Christian holy day wherein Mary and Joseph, 40 days after the birth of Jesus, brought him to the temple to be purified and the rites of purification dedication performed on him. And that's something that is in the Torah as necessary and then that is actually described in the book of Leviticus 12:1 4. But the extended name of Candle Mass is the Feast of the Presentation of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Feast of the Purification of the Blessed Virgin Mary. That's it. That's all I got. So where are we at now, Ben? There's a lot going on here. I just wanted to take a little breath so we can collect ourselves.

[Ben Bullen]

Well, we should also mention that an almoner, while we're at definitions, is just one who distributes alms. So one who distributes money to the poor. Not almond related, but yes, yes. So back to this correspondence. The problem is this correspondence that the Cardinal believes is going very, very well is all coming to him via Jean. She is dictating the letters to a local. They will call him a stationer at the time, like a stationary owner, someone who writes letters professionally. She's telling this guy what to write and the cardinal is desperate. He's like, oh, enough of this. Clearly we get along. I can't wait to be your prime Minister. I'm gonna do such a wonderful job. Let's meet in person. Let's meet ir. But the Queen always says it's not quite the right moment for me to talk to the King about this. Just you hold on. You hold on. And the Cardinal is becoming less and less patient. And Jean is saying, I gotta get some sort of situation where this guy at least feels like he's met the Queen. Oh, by the way, she's still married. She's sleeping with this dude. Yeah, but she's still married to this other.

[Noel Brown]

A man of the clothes. She's sleeping with a man of the cloth. Which cloth is that, by the way?

[Ben Bullen]

Almoner?

[Noel Brown]

Is that the thing that goes around the neck? Is that the cloth or is the

[Ben Bullen]

cloth like the robe? There, There's a lot of cloth there.

[Noel Brown]

I know that probably weirds you out, doesn't it? You're not a fan of cloth.

[Ben Bullen]

No, I'm okay. You know, I'm okay with cloth.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, wait a minute. I'm not thinking. I'm thinking of our mutual friend Frank. He's the one that doesn't like cloth and like, like fabricy feelings.

[Ben Bullen]

He's got a cotton thing.

[Noel Brown]

Cotton thing. That's it. You're more of the metal.

[Ben Bullen]

Metal, cardboard, Cardboard.

[Noel Brown]

Phone calls, any material. So, yeah, no, she needed him to feel like he had had audience with the Queen. And that's where, unless I'm mistaken, then we get our Marie Antoinette doppelganger or impersonator entering the picture.

[Ben Bullen]

That's right, that's right. So her scallywag soldier husband Nicholas comes to her with an idea. I've been hanging around in the Palais Royale and I've been being kind of louche. You guys remember I finally got a chance to use Loosh again.

[Noel Brown]

You trying to make Loosh happen, Ben Loosh?

[Ben Bullen]

I'm not trying.

[Noel Brown]

It's happening.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, I'm not trying to do things man, Yoda style. This is just happening. And while he's there, he meets a sex worker named Nicole Leguay. She is blonde, blue eyed, and physically, you know, she looks like the Queen. She resembles her. He visits her, he gets to Know her. You know what I mean?

[Noel Brown]

Like, carnally. Well, is it that kind of establishment, Ben? Is it that kind of place?

[Ben Bullen]

Well, eventually. Eventually he's been hanging out with her, and he introduces her to his wife.

[Noel Brown]

Let's also not forget that this was. I mean, you can't forget this is a time where unless you saw the queen, if you saw the Queen in person, it was gonna be from a distance. And most likely, the closest thing you'd ever get to actually seeing the Queen would be some sor. Of painted facsimile.

[Ben Bullen]

Right. Or a little cameo.

[Noel Brown]

A little cameo. Yeah, exactly.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. There's no proliferation of digital images or even photography. Right. So he introduces his friend to his wife. This is my friend Nicole. Nicole Michel. And don't you think she looks like the Queen? What do you think, honey? This is why I've been hanging out with her, because I'm helping you. I'm doing this for us.

[Noel Brown]

Exactly.

[Ben Bullen]

And so Jeanne takes to Nicole, and we have a quote wherein she is convincing Nicole to take part in some sort of plan involving the Queen.

[Noel Brown]

So this is what Jeanne says to her pal Nicole. She says, quote, I have the Queen's confidence. She and I are as close as two fingers of a hand. That's a. That's an interesting one. I'm gonna try to bring that back. Make that happen. Yeah. And then she goes on to say she has just given me new proof of this in charging me to find a person who could do something that will be explained when the time comes. Wow, that is very vague.

[Ben Bullen]

Super vague. Super vague. So does Nicole agree out of a sense of patriotism, or does she agree because she gets 15,000 francs? You know, there's no sure answer. So later that evening, they leave, and they go to the Lamont's apartment in Versailles, and still Sean does not explain the plan. Nicole says, okay, you're being real vague with me, sis. What's going on with the Queen? I appreciate the money. Instead, Sean says, oh, it's the smallest thing in the world. You have to meet the Queen, but you can't do it without a title. So Jean dubs her the Casey. Check me on this. The Baron d'. Oliva.

[Noel Brown]

Baron d'. Oliva.

[Ben Bullen]

Oh, God, it sounds so beautiful when you say it, man.

[Noel Brown]

Casey's on the case,

[Ben Bullen]

so now she has a title. Nicole has been elevated in life.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, and there's a funny little detail in that Telegraph article that points out that that is very close to an anagram of her own surname, which is Valois.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, it's Sort of like in all those films where the character who's named Dr. Alucard turns out to be Dracula. Spoilers.

[Noel Brown]

Just so.

[Ben Bullen]

Just so. So now Jeanne is grooming Nicole and dressing her up, and she gives her a letter and she says, hey, Nicole, I'm gonna lead you to the park of the palace, and then you're going to hand this letter over to this really snazzy dude that you'll meet there. I'm paraphrasing. She did not actually say snazzy dude.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, but surely he was very well dressed.

[Ben Bullen]

Sure. Oh, he was all snazz.

[Noel Brown]

He definitely was.

[Ben Bullen]

I like that phrase, too. All snazz.

[Noel Brown]

All snazz. Oh, and then there's this perf. Beautiful detail. It's just the kind of thing out of, like, a heist movie, or at least some kind of, you know, grand caper of some sort where she had to a rose, a red rose, over with the letter, and she's instructed to say to this snazzy person, this all snazz guy, he will know what this means and the Queen will be there to see how the interview goes. She'll be watching from the wings, one must assume. Oh, no, no. She even goes on to say she will speak to you later. She will be behind you.

[Ben Bullen]

So this is just as reality show as it sounds, folks. This poor, poor Nicole is given this fake title and she is literally handing a rose to a guy. No matter what he says, she's only supposed to say, you know what this means. Can you believe it? Anyway, she is on board. She is roughly a million percent on board, hook, line and sinker. She is all about it. She's freaked out. She's going to meet one of the most powerful people in her country. And she's in the garden, the Grove of Venus, specifically. It is incredibly dark. She can't see anything. She doesn't really hear anything. She's just walking around in the dark and she's wondering where the Queen's hiding and where's this dude. Where's this all snazzed dude that she's supposed to meet?

[Noel Brown]

So we should backtrack ever so slightly at this delightful cliffhanger that you set up so beautifully, babe.

[Ben Bullen]

Oh, thanks, man.

[Noel Brown]

Jeanne had been kind of dangling the queen, let's say, a little bit in front of Rohan. Yes. In terms of, you know, the possibility of him meeting her and making things better between them. Right. Or at least having him have that chance of a lifetime to worm his way into her inner circle. Let's be honest. This Guy seems a little wormy.

[Ben Bullen]

For weeks and weeks she's been sort of teasing this little finger of our story. You made that comparison earlier. I quite like it. And then he would hang out, just literally loiter around Versailles, hoping to run into Maou Antoinette. And it wasn't until August 12th that he gets word from Jean that he can meet the Queen, but he has to meet her secretly at night in the garden, essentially. And Maui was not yet ready to reveal their agreement to the public. So he hung around and he actually did not dress all snazz. He was dressed in all black and he had a hat on. He was looking conspiratorial, you know what I mean?

[Noel Brown]

Totally. It's like the period equivalent of like a trench coat and some sort of fedora. Yeah, for sure, for sure.

[Ben Bullen]

So he's waiting around, he's like, ah, is this gonna be another fruitless night of waiting? The things I do to be Prime Minister. He's thinking, he's probably also thinking, I have so many alms to give in the morning. And then all of a sudden, who runs up to him? Not the Queen, not Nicole. But first Sean.

[Noel Brown]

That's right. It's our girl Jeanne, who really is a little bit almost more out little fingering the little finger of our story.

[Ben Bullen]

Oh, for sure.

[Noel Brown]

She is panting, she's out of breath, she's very upset, or she's flustered, at least maybe not outright upset, but she tells him who is upset and that's the Queen. Oh no, the Queen is very upset. Upset because she so very much wanted to have this encounter with Rohan and that's not going to be possible because the Queen's sisters in law have kind of, I don't know, headed her off at the pass, I guess, or, you know, done a surprise walk and talk.

[Ben Bullen]

A surprise Sorkin.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, she couldn't get out of it. So he's gonna have to hang back. Rohan. This is what Jean is telling him and that she, the Queen, plans to skedaddle out of there, you know, put in a little FaceTime and then make an excuse and then abscond off to meet secretly to keep the meeting. But it's gonna have to be quick and it's gonna be very clutch because they're hot on their heels. She doesn't want anyone to see this absurdly suspicious character. Cause it seems like he's supposedly dressing for secrecy, but I would think he would be very suspicious looking dressed that way.

[Ben Bullen]

It's absolutely true. He's trying to look inconspicuous and you know, There's a point where you reach diminishing returns with dressing inconspicu us.

[Noel Brown]

It's very true.

[Ben Bullen]

Trench coat fedora. He went full trench coat fedora. So the kicker for this is that she says, don't worry though. The queen will give you, quote, unequivocal proofs of her protection and benevolence. And he's like, okay, okay, I'm in, I'm in. So Sean leads the cardinal to this opening in a clearing, and he sees this figure sort of silhouetted in the darkness. And he also goes all in. You know, his heart's probably racing. He's probably really freaked out. He walks to this figure and he kneels at her feet. And she, by the way, is Nicole, right? The new baron. And she is not sure what to do, so she just thrusts this rose toward him and she kind of hides her face with her fan. And she says that she couldn't remember exactly what she said in the conversation, but the cardinal claimed that he heard her say, you may believe the past will be forgotten. So, boom, there we go. It appears that for all intents and purposes, this cardinal has met the Queen. And the Queen is good. And she has appeared to back up all the fake letters that this cardinal has been receiving. And Rouhan essentially just really wanted to see the Queen. And he saw what he wanted to see. A little bit later, he received a written request on this paper. This was always blue bordered paper because it was from that one stationery shop. He received a request for 60,000 francs to help an impoverished family. And again, let's remember to this guy's job is to distribute money to the poor. So he goes through with that. And then in the beginning of 1785, another request arrives. Get this. It's ordering him to negotiate the purpose of a certain diamond necklace. That's right. Thought we forgot. No, we just set it up.

[Noel Brown]

In a weird way, I was wondering when we were going to come back around to it myself, Ben. I was too.

[Ben Bullen]

So she gets this letter. There's a lot of backstory here, right? Noel gets this letter from the Queen saying, hey, set this up for me. Help me buy this necklace. And the problem here is that these crown jewelers that we mentioned earlier, Bohmer and Bassenge, as you said, have been trying for years and years and years to sell this super ostentatious, extravagant, opulent necklace that had how many diamonds gab?

[Noel Brown]

It was like pushing 650. 650 stones. 2,800 carats.

[Ben Bullen]

Huge. Huge. Again, extravagant, opulent Ostentatious. All those words. All the words. And they have been presenting this to the king and the queen turned it down and they knocked some money off the price, but it was still considered too much.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, that was reduced to somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.6 million. And this is news to me, guys.

[Ben Bullen]

Livre, which is a different currency from the franc, and that's the franc wasn't around until 1795. So we should clarify that.

[Noel Brown]

That's right. And I think we talked about some payoffs. Being in France earlier in the show was not a thing. Yet the livre, which Casey being on the case, as he tends to be, clued us into that. That actually means a book.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, a book or a pound. Casey on the case. Thanks for saving the show, man. Every time. Peek behind the curtain, folks. Every time we do an episode concerning the French language. Now, we have learned to check with Casey slightly in advance so that we don't put him on the spot by saying there was one episode where he said, hey, Casey, can you just translate this entire paragraph for us?

[Noel Brown]

And he was like, guys, I need a little. A little time.

[Ben Bullen]

It wasn't in modern French either.

[Noel Brown]

I'm not just your, like French monkey, you know.

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[Ben Bullen]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.

[Noel Brown]

It's the rage bait.

[Ben Bullen]

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[Ben Bullen]

So you're right, it's very important. This is a currency. The cost is reduced. They still can't sell this because it's like it's Like a gold plated Ferrari, you know what I mean? It's just a lot. It's too much.

[Noel Brown]

And how much would it have taken for something to be too extravagant and expensive for the Queen of France not exactly known for their penny pinching ways or like, you know, keeping things modest. Right.

[Ben Bullen]

That's true. And so Sean sees this opportunity and she talks to her buddy, the Cardinal, and she says, hey, will you help the queen buy this necklace? And the payment will be made in four installments over two years. And he is down to clown. He is on board. So the jewelers are overwhelmed with joy. They are elated. Someone is going to buy this. The Queen is going to buy this. We're going to. Yeah, we'll give you the necklace and then you'll just pay us off in those four installments over two years. So on the 1st of February, 1785, the jewelers Bohmer and Bassange give the necklace to the cardinal. The cardinal gives it to Jean. And Jean, what does she do? Does she make four payments over two years?

[Noel Brown]

No.

[Ben Bullen]

Does she say, hey, I was lying to you?

[Noel Brown]

No.

[Ben Bullen]

What does she do, Noel?

[Noel Brown]

She just kind of books it with the goods, you know, she's the real puppet master in this whole thing. She's.

[Ben Bullen]

The guys are soze. I know I say it too much, but I love that film. Usual Suspects. Check it out. Yeah, you're absolutely right, man. She ghosts. And then on July 12th of that year, the jewelers send a letter to the queen. Bohmer specifically sends a letter to the queen and mentions the necklace. The queen doesn't know what's going on, so she just shreds her mail.

[Noel Brown]

What's this nonsense?

[Ben Bullen]

Exactly?

[Noel Brown]

Put it right in the royal shredder. She says.

[Ben Bullen]

That's a quote in her voice.

[Noel Brown]

And.

[Ben Bullen]

And the jeweler is not getting any word. And he waits and waits and waits. And so later in August, he sends a letter to one of Maui Toinette's ladies in waiting. And he's like, hey, you know, not to be weird about it, but I'm really surprised that you guys still owe me money for this necklace. You are, you know, your friends, the Queen of France. I don't know how to, like, make this not awkward. Seriously, can you, can you give me some livre?

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, exactly. And this is when the proverbial ish hits the fan. When the lady in waiting, Madame Campon, takes this information back to the Queen, who then is like, wait a minute, something's funky here. I need an explanation. What's going on? So on August 15, right before a mass at the Royal chapel, Rohan receives a convocation from the King of France. Right as he was leaving, he is arrested in the hall of mirrors and he's completely flabbergasted. Everyone else is just in shock. And that is when this news of this scandal was about to reach critical mass.

[Ben Bullen]

Yes. And that is not hyperbole at all. So this becomes a huge to do, a brouhaha, if you will. The cardinal goes before the Parliament, May of 1786, and surprisingly, he's declared innocent. They tracked down John and her team and they are arrested. And she, for the crime of being a con artist, is branded with a hot iron. And she's. The hot iron brand that she receives is a capital V and that stands for thief in French. What's that word? Case? Voleur. Voleur. Thief. A genuine scarlet letter. And although the Queen is innocent, her reputation is tarnished. You know, she can't walk back from that. She may have won in the court of the law, but she has failed in the court of public opinion. And from that point on, she really, really wanted the absolute worst for the cardinal, for Rouhan, who she already didn't care for. Who she already didn't care for. Great point. So although the cardinal was acquitted, it didn't help that the Queen of the country hated this dude. So he loses all his offices and he is exiled. And then our anti hero of the story, Sean, for this crime, this diamond hoax, is sentenced to be flogged. She's got the hot voice on her. And she is going to prison for life. At least that was her sentence. She later escapes to England and publishes a hit piece on the Queen. So she doesn't really feel bad.

[Noel Brown]

Pretty brazen, this one, huh?

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, and she made it out. But the Queen didn't make it out unscathed.

[Noel Brown]

No, she never really recovered from this. I mean, it's interesting because she really didn't do anything. All this stuff happened under her nose. She was used as at the center of this kind of like diamond heist, as sort of like a patsy, kind of a weird fall guy. And in what way was she a fall guy? Well, her reputation took an absolute nosedive. Not that, I mean, as we know already, not the most popular government in terms of the incredible gulf between the rich and the poor and the sense that these folks, these mucky mucks, are just living it up, you know, at the Hotel Versailles doing their thing, and the rest of the common folks are just scrapping in the streets for food. It's like in Les Mis. Have you seen Les Mis? Just like that. Yeah. But this just cements that reputation for utter moral bankruptcy. And as an article in Britannica about the affair of the diamond necklace puts it, frivolity. Just this sense of the let them eat cake thing, which we know is not a real thing, but just. That's what is encapsulated here in this whole affair. It's like. Like they are so clueless, so out of touch.

[Ben Bullen]

It's one of the. This is but one of the incidents leading up to what we call the French Revolution today. And it's strange because I don't know about you folks, but I had not heard of this. Like many of us here in the us I had a sort of a vague outline or chronology of the French Revolution and the transformation of its government, but I had no idea there was a diamond heist. They should be telling more people about this in.

[Noel Brown]

Everybody likes a good diamond heist. Everybody likes a good hoax.

[Ben Bullen]

That's true. And this concludes our story of the affair of the diamond necklace, or as you said earlier, Noel, the scandal.

[Noel Brown]

Here's my question, Ben.

[Ben Bullen]

What's your question?

[Noel Brown]

How do you fence an item like that?

[Ben Bullen]

You go to England, you go to a different country, you sell it to

[Noel Brown]

another monarchy, maybe you break it down

[Ben Bullen]

and just sell the diamonds.

[Noel Brown]

That's probably what you'd have to do because surely there would be APBs out for this thing across the land.

[Ben Bullen]

I always wonder about all over Europe. Yeah, I always wonder about that with art hoaxes and unique items. You know, like someone steals a priceless painting. How do you fence that? Who do you sell it to? Do you go on Craigslist? I don't know. I've never. I've done a lot of things in my life, but I have yet to steal and fence priceless artwork. Hey, maybe 2019 is my year, man.

[Noel Brown]

Well, here's the thing, too. Are there, like, shadowy, you know, collectors that are the ones who are brazen enough to buy that stuff? And that's where they keep that, in their secret gallery.

[Ben Bullen]

Right.

[Noel Brown]

That's like behind, like a bookshelf or whatever? You gotta walk in.

[Ben Bullen]

There was a really interesting article I had read a few weeks back that was positing a lot of artwork we see in public museums is actually forged with the real pieces being, as you said, in secret galleries? I don't know. You think that's likely?

[Noel Brown]

I'm not sure, but have you seen the movie? Can you ever forgive me?

[Ben Bullen]

I think I have. Wait, what's with it's?

[Noel Brown]

With what's her name? Melissa McCarthy. It was pretty recent. It's about. She's kind of a failed writer.

[Ben Bullen]

Oh, yeah.

[Noel Brown]

It's based on a true story where

[Ben Bullen]

she's got that best friend, the British

[Noel Brown]

guy whose name I'm forgetting right now, but I love him. He was in with Nail and I and some other things. But her whole thing is. And this isn't a spoiler if you don't want a mild spoiler about this movie. I mean, it's what the movie's about, but you don't know it right away. She ends up, you know, she's hard down on her luck and she ends up forging letters from, I remember, famous dead writers and, you know, socialites and things like that.

[Ben Bullen]

And she's really good at it.

[Noel Brown]

And she's really good at it, and she gets the wit and all of that down. That's the same with, like, being able to forge a work of art, right? You have to really nail it. It's more than just making a copy. You almost have to have, like, the soul of the artist and be able to copy that.

[Ben Bullen]

I would watch. I would watch the Affair of the Diamond Necklace were it a film. And speaking of films, let us know. What are some of your favorite heist films? What are some of your favorite stories of appalling opulence from various royal families of time gone by? Let us know. You can find us on Facebook. You can find us on Twitter. You can find us on Instagra. You can hang out with our favorite part of the show, your fellow listeners, on our Facebook page. Ridiculous historians. That's the one.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. The one we were talking about at the top of the show where you can follow the beef between me and Christopher Hasiotes about whether or not Mandy's a good film.

[Ben Bullen]

Is that what you guys were talking on?

[Noel Brown]

It is.

[Ben Bullen]

Why doesn't. I saw what he. I saw him on it. I saw. He said that he would watch it again, but it's like, the thing is, I went to so much trouble trying to get this to play at the Plaza. He didn't even go, well.

[Noel Brown]

He didn't like it. He hated the movie. He literally just wrote to me. I told him about this beef. I said, this beef is now ridiculous history canon. And he goes, Episode 132, the Time Noel Brown revealed how historically wrong he was about Mandy. And now I've got an ally in this fight for Mandy. I mean, you were there all along, Ben, but I think we need to sit down with Christopher and set the

[Ben Bullen]

record, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be Sweden on this. I've never let someone else's opinion of a film interfere with how I feel about it, so I'm not gonna.

[Noel Brown]

Absolutely not. But he's really doubling down on this.

[Ben Bullen]

I don't negotiate with terrorists.

[Noel Brown]

He's borderline entering character assassination territory.

[Ben Bullen]

I did not negotiate with terrorists.

[Noel Brown]

That's fair. Was that like a JFK voice? Kind of.

[Ben Bullen]

No, that's. That's my real voice.

[Noel Brown]

Okay, got it. But yeah, if you want to follow this ongoing saga, check us out on ridiculous historians on Facebook. If you want to check us out on Instagram. We mainly just post, like, new episodes and stuff. But if you want to check out me and Ben's personal exploits, you can follow me at Embryonic Insider and you

[Ben Bullen]

can follow me at Ben Bullen. Currently, I am snacking on pizzerias, or I'm about to, because this is one of my favorite long gone chips. And I think I just found a way to get a bag.

[Noel Brown]

Ben, I, I. When I heard you say that you said snacking on pizzerias, I was picturing you like, like eating like all the pizza available.

[Ben Bullen]

Well, and the building. And the building, like the stone, the benches.

[Noel Brown]

You're sort of like one of. What's that French guy who ate all the things? I think, I think he ate a baby.

[Ben Bullen]

I don't know anybody who eats babies.

[Noel Brown]

I don't know. You don't know about this?

[Podcast Advertisers/Guests]

No.

[Ben Bullen]

There's a Brazilian guy who. You know what? We should save this. This is a story for another day.

[Noel Brown]

Hey, I just want to point out I googled French guy who ate a baby. His name was Terra and he was born in rural France near Lyon in 1772. And his whole thing was he would eat anything. He was actually hospitalized in a psychiatric ward where it is conjectured that he possibly ate a baby.

[Ben Bullen]

Well, there's also. This goes back to the super. The super stomachs, right? The super eaters.

[Noel Brown]

That's right.

[Ben Bullen]

There's a guy in Brazil who's done the same thing. And we're not talking about the survivors of the crash in the Andes on you know, the basis or the inspiration for the movie Alive.

[Noel Brown]

All right, we'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Podcast Advertisers/Guests]

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[Ben Bullen]

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[Noel Brown]

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[Ben Bullen]

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[Ben Bullen]

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[Podcast Advertisers/Guests]

Elton John Impact Awards, honoring those who

[Ben Bullen]

have helped shape a more inclusive and compassionate world with their artistry, advocacy and unwavering commitment to equality. Don't miss the Elton John Impact Awards podcast, available June 1st on the iHeartRadio app.

[Podcast Advertisers/Guests]

And everywhere podcasts are heard, this is an iHeart podcast.

[Ben Bullen]

Guaranteed human.