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- [00:00]
Ben Boland
Welcome ridiculous historians to this week's classic episode. If you're hearing this when it publishes, welcome to December 7th, 2024. Joined as always with my super producer, Mr. Max Williams.
- [00:17]
Max Williams
I am guessing I am going to.
- [00:18]
Ben Boland
Be the second most famous Max on this episode. I don't know, man. Don't you know what history is? Weird. Dare I say ridiculous. It's Ben Boland here with Max Williams. Our faithful correspondent, Mr. Noel Brown is adventuring. And Max, I am so glad that you are here with us in this intro to our classic episode. We were talking about it a little bit off air. This is the story of another Max.
- [00:52]
Max Williams
Yeah, this one's interesting because I've heard this one referenced a lot. So this is before I worked on the show, but this is what, this is our cutoff time, right, for stories.
- [01:03]
Ben Boland
If it's after this, it's not.
- [01:05]
Max Williams
We can't consider it history, right?
- [01:07]
Ben Boland
Absolutely. That is a decision I made arbitrarily and we've just sort of gone with that for quite some time. It goes back to the philosophical question of what counts as history. History is a living thing. It's an ongoing conversation. If you are a fan of history, then you probably dealt with the same dilemma. You have wrestled with this idea. What counts as history? What counts as the present? Why is. Why is postmodern literature such a bag? Badgers such a pickle when it comes to the idea of experience? We're talking today about a primate named Max. Not to be confused with our super producer, Mr. Max Williams. We're talking about a guy who was once upon a time the most famous crime fighting gorilla in all of South Africa. Now, our buddy Max here is a western lowland gorilla. He was at the Johannesburg zoo and in 1997, he was shot and he was wounded. And he became a symbol for larger tensions and social issues within the nation of South Africa. And to your point, Max, in this episode you will hear a pivotal moment for us on ridiculous history. This is the episode wherein we determined our cutoff for the past versus the present. Anything that happened before 1997 counts as ridiculous history for us. Anything after that, that well, negotiable.
- [03:01]
Max Williams
Yeah, I know. I'm excited for this. Let's get into it. It's better over here.
- [03:07]
Ben Boland
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- [03:09]
Max Williams
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- [03:11]
Ben Boland
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- [03:14]
Max Williams
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- [03:18]
Ben Boland
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- [03:34]
Max Williams
CT mobile.com hi everyone, it's Savannah Guthrie.
- [03:37]
Noel Brown
And Hoda Copy from the Today Show.
- [03:39]
Ben Boland
Nobody does the holidays like Today. From festive performances and great gift ideas.
- [03:44]
Noel Brown
To tips for the perfect holiday feast, join us every morning on NBC and make TODAY your home for the holidays.
- [03:51]
Ben Boland
Where'd you get those shoes? Easy.
- [03:53]
Noel Brown
They're from dsw.
- [03:54]
Ben Boland
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- [04:06]
Noel Brown
And all the styles that show off.
- [04:08]
Ben Boland
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- [04:17]
Noel Brown
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- [04:51]
Ben Boland
This is Simone Boyce. From the bright side, beauty is about more than just beauty. It's about worth, individuality and the power that comes from being your truest self. At L'Oreal Paris, beauty means embracing who.
- [05:06]
Noel Brown
You already are, enhancing the diverse features, experiences and personality that makes you.
- [05:12]
Ben Boland
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- [05:23]
Noel Brown
Little less scary when you feel ready for your closeup.
- [05:26]
Ben Boland
L'Oreal Paris because you're worth it. Learn more at l'orealparris.com Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the show, fellow ridiculous historians, friends and neighbors, U.S. residents and citizens of the world alike, we are going on a journey today to a different part of the world. And what better way to get into it than to open with a Question, Noel, have you ever seen a gorilla in real life?
- [06:25]
Max Williams
Yes. At the Columbia Zoo in Columbia, South Carolina. They have. They have a gorilla situation there.
- [06:31]
Ben Boland
A gorilla situation.
- [06:32]
Max Williams
Have a gorilla sitch. Yeah. Now silverbacks, I believe.
- [06:36]
Ben Boland
Oh, and I'm Ben.
- [06:37]
Max Williams
Oh, of course you are.
- [06:38]
Ben Boland
And we have to of course give a shout out to our long suffering super producer, Casey Pegram.
- [06:46]
Max Williams
He's still in the wind, but he's here in spirit. In fact, today we are kind of producer less and peek behind the curtain. It is Memorial Day and we are here in the office making this episode just for you.
- [06:59]
Ben Boland
Just for you. Specifically you.
- [07:01]
Max Williams
Yes.
- [07:02]
Ben Boland
If you're listening and you're thinking we're talking about a general you.
- [07:04]
Max Williams
No, we don't do that.
- [07:05]
Ben Boland
No, it's specifically you. And what better way to start we thought today than to talk a little bit about gorillas. These are amazing creatures.
- [07:17]
Max Williams
They are. And they are majestic and also quite powerful. Oh yeah, a lot of upper body strength. They got those big old forearms and those tiny little back legs. But man, I would not want to run into one in a dark alley or, you know, accidentally end up flung into its pen.
- [07:35]
Ben Boland
Yeah. They're the largest living primate. Males are about twice the size of females. So a male gorilla can weigh up to £400. And they have opposable thumbs just like us. Right. So they can manipulate, hold and carry things. They're also really smart and they are fun fact. Although they look like they might be ferocious carnivores, they're not.
- [08:02]
Max Williams
You remember Coco? Coco, the sign language gorilla.
- [08:06]
Ben Boland
Right.
- [08:06]
Max Williams
Heartwarming story there.
- [08:08]
Ben Boland
Still a little controversial in the science, but I don't know, man, that stuff can break your heart because it feels like it's having very human self aware sapient interactions.
- [08:18]
Max Williams
Well, if you want, I'm going to double down on the heartbreak, Ben. There's actually a picture of Robin Williams kicking it with cocoa and it will jerk some tears right out of your eye holes if you look at that one.
- [08:30]
Ben Boland
Eye holes. Oh, the Rick and Morty reference that we're just going to leave there.
- [08:34]
Max Williams
What is it? Terry Flaps?
- [08:36]
Ben Boland
Yeah.
- [08:36]
Max Williams
You texted me on the way up and you're downstairs and you asked me if I wanted to touch your Terry Flaps.
- [08:42]
Ben Boland
Yes, that is a, that is a reference. Don't go calling HR on us, folks. That is a reference to Rick and Morty. But, but the statement of eye holes. Yeah, it's true. It will hurt your eye holes and your heart holes to see Robin Williams with that lovely gorilla. Now Coco has something in common with our Protagonist or our tragic hero of today's story, because Koko is a type of gorilla called a western lowland gorilla. Western lowland gorillas are the primary type of gorilla that you will see in a zoo across the world. There are some exceptions. There's an eastern lowland gorilla that lives at the Antwerp Zoo, and there are some mountain gorillas that live in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. And I mean zoo gorillas, not gorillas in the wild. So typically, if you are imagining a gorilla exhibit you have seen or a preservation you've seen here in the States, then it is going to be. It's going to be a home to western lowland gorillas. They're generally lighter colored than eastern gorillas, but in terms of behavior, they're still the same. They're. They're very intelligent. They're tremendously strong. They're calm until they're not well.
- [10:06]
Max Williams
They're. They're highly territorial. They will protect their turf and their own. If you come up upon them and pose a threat, they will go to great length to defend themselves and their loved ones.
- [10:18]
Ben Boland
And occasionally these stories pop up in the news. Like Harambe, the gorilla who was tragically put to death. Right.
- [10:26]
Max Williams
A little kid fell on the pen when a kid.
- [10:29]
Ben Boland
A human child. Something sounds so creepy and David Bowie esque in Labyrinth saying human child.
- [10:35]
Max Williams
Yeah.
- [10:36]
Ben Boland
Well, a kid fell in and as a result, Harambe was put to sleep. And today's story centers on a.
- [10:47]
Max Williams
A human man.
- [10:48]
Ben Boland
A human man, yes. Who was once a human child. And a gorilla named Max who lived at the Johannesburg Zoo.
- [10:56]
Max Williams
So as the story goes, a guy was fleeing the police. He had robbed some houses. He was on the lam, he was on the run, and he vaulted a fence. I'm trying to picture how this happened. Like, did he know what he was getting into? Was he, like, that's cool. I'll figure this out. Anyway, vault of the fence, running from the cops ended up inside Max's gorilla pit. Yeah. That he shared with his life partner.
- [11:25]
Ben Boland
Lisa, his mate, his better half. So this guy, this criminal, Isaac Mofokeng, jumps into the zoo as he said Noel. And Max, as we had established earlier, being a gorilla, is thinking, who the heck is this? This is not a zookeeper. This is not one of the people that I know. And so he defends his territory. What we mean by that is he displays signs of intimidation and he moves toward Isaac Mofokeng. And Mofokeng, unfortunately for Max, was armed.
- [12:04]
Max Williams
Yeah, and he put a few slugs in old Max, didn't he?
- [12:10]
Ben Boland
He shot him in the chest. But that was not enough to stop a 400 pound angry gorilla. So Max bites Isaac. You know, we try to be a family show, but bites him in the butt, essentially. And it sounds hilarious now, but that is a grievous wound. So he has Isaac Mofokeng bitten in the buttocks. He's pinned him against the wall. This man is about to die. Police intervene, and in the process of rescuing Isaac, the police officers, at least two of them, are also injured by Max. He's not having it.
- [12:50]
Max Williams
Well, I mean, you know, he can't differentiate at this point between friend or foe. He's already been threatened. And then these other schmoes show up trying to apprehend the suspect. And to Max, they're just another part of the problem. They are trespassing on his land and he's been shot. Well, he got shot in the chest and then in the neck, right through the neck. But I think the one in the neck passed right through. I want to say luckily. And the one in the chest was not a mortal wound, thankfully. And in fact, I think they actually left it in. They left the bullet in because it would have been more traumatic for Max if they had had to dig around and do surgery to get it out.
- [13:29]
Ben Boland
And they put him down. Yeah, or under anesthetic, rather.
- [13:33]
Max Williams
But we are getting ahead of ourselves.
- [13:35]
Ben Boland
We are getting a little bit ahead of ourselves. There's just a bit more color we should add to the story here, because in many other countries and many other points in time, this may have been a story that you hear as a three to four minute piece on your evening news. Right. You tune into channel 11, whatever, and people are saying strange story from a local Columbia Zoo or something. However, this was Johannesburg, South Africa, in the late 90s. People were tremendously concerned about crime in the city. And so Max became. Became famous for this.
- [14:19]
Max Williams
Yeah. Something of a symbol, you know, of. I don't know, maybe rule of law is not the right term, but just the idea of pushing back against criminals that were just everywhere, the wave of crime, it was just awful. And, you know, we're gonna get a little more into this, but we also haven't really talked about the fact that this is the 90s and our show's called Ridiculous History. And the notion of the 90s seems a little off even for us. We were like, is this really historical? But, man, was it a different time.
- [14:47]
Ben Boland
It was a very different time. And the way that we decided to approach this was to look at what we would call a cutoff Date. Right. Like, at what point does something become history, even though we're creating it every single second of our lives? I think we can all agree that right now, 2008 would still be a little too recent.
- [15:10]
Max Williams
I think so. But 1990, and not to mention the history surrounding this time in Johannesburg and South Africa in general, we forget, I certainly forgot, that apartheid, this institutionalized, racist government that owned South Africa for decades, had only just ended. And there was severe fallout. You know, they had democracy for the first time after the end of apartheid. This again, institutionalized segregation of the majority black population of the country and by the minority white government of the country. We can get into a little bit more specifics about that in a minute. But that's the atmosphere here. And the crime, the non political violence is. There's no rule of law. It's like a free for all in the streets. It absolutely is a total powder keg. And this idea of Max, I think it could be argued, was sort of a beacon of hope that was very quickly latched onto by the community.
- [16:18]
Ben Boland
Yeah, yeah. One thing that may be useful by way of comparison for our American listeners is to think of McGruff the crime dog. Do you remember McGruffnell?
- [16:29]
Max Williams
I do, but he was a cartoon and he was pretty inspiring. Just as a cartoon. This was a real life gorilla that had weathered this chaotic environment.
- [16:37]
Ben Boland
And the reason I bring up the McGruff comparison is because Max becomes this very useful symbol for the police, as we said, and he has merchandise that comes out. We've got stuffed max dolls.
- [16:53]
Max Williams
When McGruff would take a bite out of crime, Max took a bite out of the butt of crime.
- [17:00]
Ben Boland
Yes. And Max was also, as you had said, Max was real. This was a real incident. But he didn't just get stuffed animals made in his likeness. He became a celebrity. And I don't know if you had ever heard this word, but this was my first time reading the word Spokesbeast.
- [17:20]
Max Williams
Was he a pansexual, non threatening spokes thing? Remember that from Mr. Show Pit Pat? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Spokesbeast. He was the spokesbeast for Lebombo Bananas. And he actually got paid with a year's supply of free bananas. They literally made it rain bananas on Macs.
- [17:40]
Ben Boland
Keqing, a computer company, hired him to pose in ads for its new software.
- [17:46]
Max Williams
Yeah, I wonder what the software was called. I couldn't find any specifics about that, but it was. Yeah, you have a gorilla kind of shilling your software for you. That's Interesting. He must have really been beloved. There was a drink, an energy drink, which I love the name of. It's just called Energade or Inner Gaid.
- [18:04]
Ben Boland
I was wondering, is it Inner Gate or Energade as well?
- [18:07]
Max Williams
It's sort of like a Gatorade equivalent, I guess. They signed up Max after they learned that that was Max's favorite drink for taking antibiotics at the zoo. The zookeepers would slip his meds into a nice refreshing bottle of Energade.
- [18:24]
Ben Boland
And so he thought he was having a juice party, which, you know, I can easily see that happen. Because if Energade or Energade is anything like Gatorade or Powerade, then it's probably very sugary. Right. So a bank and a construction company also sponsored Max, meaning that they contributed money to the zoo for his upkeep, medical bills, feeding, et cetera.
- [18:50]
Max Williams
Yeah, like upgrading his pen, things like that. The infrastructure. Because, again, he was like a local. He was like a national treasure, you know, a local hero.
- [18:59]
Ben Boland
We gotta tell the newspaper, this is great.
- [19:01]
Max Williams
Yeah. The Saturday Star paid 2,200 bucks for a photo, or I guess for a photo shoot where Max was browsing the paper.
- [19:11]
Ben Boland
And they got the photos after they got the photos, because Max clearly is a professional at this point. After they got the photos, he went ahead and ate every page of the paper.
- [19:21]
Max Williams
He was a fan.
- [19:22]
Ben Boland
He was a fan.
- [19:23]
Max Williams
He was trying to take it all in through osmosis.
- [19:25]
Ben Boland
It's similar to what Maurice Sendak called the highest praise he had ever received. The children's author of where the Wild Things Are, he said he received a note from a fan who said they enjoyed his book reading it, and they also wanted to eat it.
- [19:43]
Max Williams
My girlfriend asked me the strangest question the other day. She said, have you ever eaten paper to keep someone from getting it? Like a note? And at first I was like, what do you mean? And she goes, you know, I mean, like, if a teacher caught you passing a note in class, rather than having her confiscate it and see what horrid things you were writing and just eat it.
- [20:04]
Ben Boland
Yeah.
- [20:04]
Max Williams
I'm like, that is baller.
- [20:06]
Ben Boland
That sounds like something people should not admit to doing.
- [20:09]
Max Williams
Well, I'm sorry for throwing her under the bus, but you guys don't know her.
- [20:12]
Ben Boland
Oh, did she admit it?
- [20:14]
Max Williams
She admitted it, yeah.
- [20:15]
Ben Boland
I mean, it's resourceful.
- [20:16]
Max Williams
I think so, too, but spies have done that.
- [20:18]
Ben Boland
What.
- [20:18]
Max Williams
What was she possibly writing that would have been, like, worth consuming right there in front of the teacher?
- [20:23]
Ben Boland
Overthrow the teacher. The Revolution is now.
- [20:26]
Max Williams
I think so. Speaking of which.
- [20:27]
Ben Boland
Yes, speaking of which, we could go on and list some of Max's sponsorships, but it's more important, we feel, to explore why this occurred, whence this came. So we mentioned apartheid, we mentioned the distinction between political and non political crime. And unfortunately, we could do an entirely different show on the systemic causes of apartheid, the process of combating it, and the ramifications of apartheid that remain in Johannesburg in the modern day. But we feel the cultural ecology from which Max's celebrity arises is as important as the details of that. That moment in the zoo.
- [21:23]
Max Williams
Oh, for sure, dare we say, much more important. But Max being like almost like a Batman esque figure, like. And Johannesburg and South Africa being the Gotham City, everyone needs a hero they can look to, they can believe in, they can believe in. And as silly as that sounds, and you know, we're editorializing a little bit here, but I can't help but think that's what caused this gorilla to reach such heights of celebrity. You know, just a bit of background, because I did not know quite how far back this stretched apartheid became law in South Africa in 1950. Things like marriages between white people and black people were forbidden. Any kind of sexual relations. The idea was to separate not only black people from white people, but black people from each other and like, sectionalize them into different. They called them, you know, tribal factions or whatever. And it kept them from organizing and kept them from fighting back and having political power. Right. They had to carry papers. It was like Nazi Germany. I mean, and this, again, this did not really fully come to an end, at least on the books, until 1993.
- [22:40]
Ben Boland
Right, yeah. This, this process of setting aside territory and for black inhabitants of South Africa at the time was the things they were making were known as bantustans. And 10 of them were established in South Africa to concentrate members of certain ethnic groups, making those groups, in the opinion of the ruling party, ethically homogenous and making them nation states. But it also, as you said, had the clear effect of removing or stymieing the ability of people to band together in a larger force to combat apartheid. Apartheid was based on the principle known as boscop. Now, neither Noel nor I speak this language, but Baskop, with two A's, two S's was this. It's this concept that translates from Afrikaans to something like boss ship, like being the boss or domination. It's essentially. It's white supremacy.
- [23:47]
Noel Brown
Yeah.
- [23:48]
Ben Boland
And the idea of the National Party at this time was very much solidly based in the old concepts of colonialism, the idea that there is some sort of. There is some sort of inborn superiority depending on how one defines race or whatever. And we must also point out that these kinds of concepts, this white supremacy stuff, is not. Is not a just a general. All white people are better because there are also levels in their white supremacist ideas that certain white people are somehow better than other white people, et cetera.
- [24:35]
Max Williams
And these concepts go back to the very founding of South Africa as an independent nation in 1913. This thing called the Land act was passed that began this segregation of black Africans and the minority whites and also deprived black Africans of the ability to work as sharecroppers. And they were, you know, denied a way, a means of an income, essentially.
- [25:05]
Ben Boland
Yeah, absolutely. And this, again, this applied not just to people that the governing forces characterized as black, it applied to people that they characterized as non white in any way. So this also included what would be described as South Asians or people they would have called Indians at the time.
- [25:24]
Max Williams
And it would split up families because a mother, for example, could be considered black or Bantu, and then a child or a spouse could be classified differently, and it would literally break up these families.
- [25:41]
Ben Boland
Yeah, yeah. That's spot on. Through the dual use of bureaucracy and brutality, they attempted to. And in some spheres succeeded in taking this insane notion and enforcing it or bringing it to a horrific reality on innocent people. These are not, you know, it's not like a weird punishment they made up for soldiers. These are civilians. These are children.
- [26:11]
Max Williams
Oh, yeah.
- [26:12]
Ben Boland
And we see already an unsustainable situation. What we see historically, what we find is that in cases of discrimination, which always, always exists, in cases where this sort of execrable suppression and oppression of people occurs, there is almost always going to be a backlash.
- [26:39]
Max Williams
Yeah. Instant opposition in the form of the African National Congress as early as the 1913 Land act, that controversial law that was passed. And this is the party that would be like, if we're talking rebels versus, you know, the empire, these are the rebels. Right. We're in Star wars parlance here. Sure. And it wasn't until the late 40s that the idea of apartheid actually began. The Afrikaner National Party actually won an election using this. This is the first time you started seeing this word apartheid, which means separateness. There's a fantastic rundown of all of this in the timeline of apartheid on history.com that I. That I recommend checking out for. Sure. It gives you a pretty deep dive into some of this. Not going to go into the minutia of all of it, because it's a whole, like you said, Ben, a whole story unto itself. But from the very start, you had this opposition and a culture of violence, a culture of war, essentially.
- [27:44]
Ben Boland
Yeah. So the precedents for these racist beliefs existed for a long, long time. They were codified in the late 40s. But the history of the African National Congress, as you said, doesn't start just there in the 40s. The origins go back. You'll hear people report that the African National Congress really starts, or the first inklings of this begin when a fellow named Pixley K? Asaka Seme says in 1911, forget all the past differences among Africans and unite in one national organization. It's also really important to say this that during the times of colonialism, many of the borders that were established in the modern states now were created to purposefully divide existing communities. So now it doesn't matter if for time immemorial, you and you and the rest of your community have lived in this one area. Right. Once the national lines are drawn by these European powers, all of a sudden you are different states.
- [28:57]
Max Williams
It's almost like a more extreme version of something like gerrymandering, where you're sort of rigging the game against people to ensure that they have no voice politically.
- [29:08]
Ben Boland
Right.
- [29:11]
Savannah Guthrie
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- [30:20]
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- [31:30]
Hoda Kotb
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- [32:17]
Savannah Guthrie
Bro.
- [32:17]
Hoda Kotb
Are you pumped to see what happens when all your content gets brought into the future? Uh oh, maybe that's too far into the future.
- [32:28]
Ben Boland
Yeah, that's. That's better.
- [32:29]
Hoda Kotb
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- [32:40]
Ben Boland
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- [33:08]
Max Williams
Conditions 18 +.
- [33:14]
Ben Boland
From the perspective of the pro apartheid National Party, the activities of the National Congress are terrorism. Essentially. That's. That's what they're. That's what they are perceiving it as. That's what they're portraying it as in the international media.
- [33:31]
Max Williams
But you gotta fight fire with fire, Ben. I mean, these, these. It's essentially a fascist regime, you know, that is. That is trying to utterly crush any kind of resistance with violence. And the only way to fight back against that is with more violence. Unfortunately, a lot of the time, I mean, that's the thing. The history of this country is. Is so rooted in conflict, just constant conflict from the beginning until apartheid came to an end in the early 90s.
- [34:02]
Ben Boland
Well, the conflicts change, perhaps.
- [34:05]
Max Williams
That's what I'm saying. Even the notion of it coming to an end and them establishing real democracy, that does not happen overnight, especially when you've just had constant struggle for decades and decades. It becomes ingrained. You know.
- [34:17]
Ben Boland
In 1960, 70 black demonstrators are killed in Sharpville and the African National Congress is officially banned. So just like 10 years after the government comes to power, they classify everybody by race. Oh, they also banned the Communist Party as well in 1950. Let me go back for a second. In 1950, Nelson Mandela is responding to the banning of the Communist Party, these racial classifications and such, by launching a campaign of civil disobedience. But when the ANC is officially banned in 1960, one year later. Nelson Mandela in 1961, heads the African National Congress's new military wing which launches sabotage campaigns. And these become, you know, these become on the ground operations. So no more civil disobedience. These are acts meant to purposely in some way cripple the function of the government.
- [35:23]
Max Williams
Absolutely. I mean, they are in open rebellion. And Nelson Mandela, after many of the leaders of the movement were jailed or executed. Mandela was imprisoned, as you know, for quite a long time, from 1963 until, I believe, just 1990. And they kind of bounced him all over town, didn't they, Ben?
- [35:46]
Ben Boland
Yeah, yeah. He was. Was originally jailed in Marshall Square Prison in Johannesburg. He, along with his co defendants, admitted that they had committed acts of sabotage, but denied that they were waging guerrilla war against the government. Of course, they were sentenced to life in prison, although the prosecutor demanded the death sentence. Mandela is eventually transferred to Robben island, where he is forced to live for the next 18 years. And at this point he's thinking, you know, I may be in jail for the rest of my natural life. He gets transferred to a couple of different prisons. There is also a Free Mandela protest taking place at that time. The politics don't stop because he is imprisoned. And he in many ways becomes a symbol for the fight against apartheid. He gets transferred to a prison in Cape Town called Pollsmoor Prison. And the conditions there are a little better than they are at Robben Island. But then he gets transferred to Victor Wurster Prison near a place called Part. And he eventually, going back to what you said, Noel. He eventually, in 1990, is freed.
- [37:07]
Max Williams
He is freed. And he in league with the current president, FW De Klerk, who was the head of the government at the time. They worked together to repeal many of these apartheid laws that have been on the books for so long. And establish a new constitution which gave African black citizens the right to vote democratically. And other racial groups that were also discriminated against, as you mentioned, non whites. And all of this went into play in 1994. They started free elections and essentially laid the groundwork for having a free and democratic society.
- [37:53]
Ben Boland
Right. The ANC campaigned in 94. Their slogan is a better life for all. And there's a focus on development. This is around the time that the world, much of which was already against the pre existing system of apartheid. This is when the world also starts to actively support Nelson Mandela and the anc. Through the soft diplomacy of international accolades and awards, Most particularly the Nobel Prize.
- [38:25]
Max Williams
Yeah, he shared that with De Klerk.
- [38:28]
Ben Boland
And the campaign was meant to not just break the system, but to build a better one. They had and continue to pursue, as we're going to find, noble goals. One such would be the idea of building a million houses in five years. Free education, access to water and electricity. Because many people went without it.
- [38:55]
Max Williams
And this constitution was insanely forward thinking. Had so many protections built into the language. Protections that we don't have on the books that we fight for daily in this country. Protection for gays and lesbians.
- [39:12]
Ben Boland
Leading to the being called the Rainbow Nation.
- [39:14]
Max Williams
Right, the Rainbow Nation. Exactly. Not only that, some of those very progressive ideas of how to establish good housing for the poor. The idea of basic human rights to education, to healthcare workers, rights, access to information again, women, gays and lesbians, children, environmental protections. And then there's this thing that I thought was so cool. It's called the principle of the ratchet. And this was language built into this constitution that said essentially, even if the government can't with the resources currently available, give all of these things like schools, housing, clean water to every community all at once. It has to convince the courts that they are working towards it in a fundamentally real way.
- [40:07]
Ben Boland
Which is fantastic because it's a baked in accountability. Right. And while we are rightly praising the ANC for doing a thing that many people around the world once thought was impossible, we do also have to acknowledge that the way they got there did involve what did involve more than non violence and more than sabotage of industrial stuff. There's an article in the New York Times from 1997 that examines how senior officials of the African National Congress later, after taking power, said that they had, if not actively participating in some of the guerrilla violence that Mandela had been accused of and his co defendants, they could have at the very least done something to stop it. They were tacitly aiding people who were perpetrating these events. Again, not all on just soldiers of the pro apartheid side, but again men, women and children, civilians.
- [41:20]
Max Williams
The line becomes so blurred because so many of these groups are little independent offshoots, independent rebel groups, militias that are armed. Because apparently in 1994 you could buy an AK47 on the black market for what would equate to about $15American. There's this incredibly moving and disturbing article in the New Republic from 1994 called South Africa's Violent Road to Real Democracy. And it mentions some of these statistics about the AK47 and how supposedly at the time you could order a hit for that same amount. 50 rand. And this article centers at least in the early part of it around this hospital called Baragawanath Hospital, shortened to the Bara, which is in the Soweto township of Johannesburg. And it just shows a lot of the comings and goings and interviews, a lot of the doctors and it just, you know, you're seeing stabbing victims coming through people with these very telltale wounds from a particular weapon called a panga, which is like a machete that the members of the Zulu faction would carry. And it just the sense of desperation that comes across in this article. Like they refer to the doctor's trauma ward as the pit. And it just, I can't imagine the chaos and it does a really good job of kind of differentiating between the political violence that had a death toll of more than 15,000 over a span of four years. But, but the majority of the violence that outshined even that insane number was just criminal violence, right?
- [43:04]
Ben Boland
Yeah. And I'm glad you're bringing this up, although it is a disturbing thing in 2007, the South African government contacted the center for the Study of Violence and Reconciliation to figure out why this crime occurs or what the tone of it is, the systemic causes. And one of the things they found was that, that the courts were inefficient and that violence had become normalized. So this was expected. And this is also tying in, of course, the vulnerability of young people, high levels of inequality. From these various factors we see hard numbers arise. I think in the same article you mentioned and it cites, at least in that time, South Africa's murder rate was 10 times that of the United States, which you know, has a national image of a country with a cartoonish murder rate here in the U.S. yeah.
- [44:04]
Max Williams
And of course, you know, with this chaos, the African National Congress was constantly at war with the police. And their goal, according to this article and everything else we've seen was to make these various areas, these townships, ungovernable is the word they use here. And so you're dealing with this just decades long struggle that never comes quite comes to an end even after apartheid ends. You can't just turn that off with the passage of a law.
- [44:36]
Ben Boland
Right. It's very difficult to address all of the contributing factors, the old enmities, because we can't forget that many of the pro apartheid individuals that were active in the government were also tremendously financially influential. Right. Or socially influential. So some of those means of. Not to sound like a banned Communist party member, but many of those means of production were still owned by the forces of apartheid or pro type people.
- [45:11]
Max Williams
Allow money to be made with constant conflict.
- [45:14]
Ben Boland
Right. And, and we know that this sounds like disturbing stuff, but while we're painting this picture, we don't want to gloss over the fact that South Africa as a nation has made tremendous progress, but that progress still continues today. South Africa as recently as 2015 had been characterized by British papers like the Guardian as a country at war. There were. The murder rate soared to nearly 49 people a day in South Africa overall. And of course that's not going to be evenly distributed. A lot of that happens in the urban centers. But despite all of that, this progress continues. The legacy of the African National Congress continues.
- [46:12]
Max Williams
It's interesting though, because Johannesburg is subject to something that we are seeing quite a lot of here in Atlanta, which is rabid gentrification. A lot of these formerly uninhabitable or very, very highly dangerous places, burnt out buildings, abandoned locations have now been cleared out of squatters, you know, very low income, homeless people that are living there illegally they have all been cleared out to make way for developers. There is an area, there's an article on CNN called Johannesburg's Crime Hotspot Transformed to Hipster Hangout. That's very familiar to where we're sitting right here in a place called Ponce City Market in Atlanta, on a street called Ponce de Leon. That used to be very dangerous and a lot of crime, and now it's kind of a lot of that's been swept away and replaced by bougie hipster malls. And that same thing is happening in Johannesburg.
- [47:11]
Ben Boland
Activists are referring to this as spatial apartheid and calling for occupations of Cape Town. There's another article from the Guardian whom I found had a lot of great reporting on this by Alice McCool that examines how these housing activists are taking over a nurse's home, a hospital, and attempting to gain national and international recognition of the housing problem, both in terms of affordability, in terms of gentrification, and in terms of historical land theft, which is, you know, what happened.
- [47:50]
Max Williams
Well, of course, I saw a thing in this article from CNN about how these developers are now looking at Johannesburg as a super hotspot for buying up real estate. One developer in particular, who is doing a project called Arts on Main in a precinct called the Mobo Nang, which means Place of Light, talks about these stats. He says it's paid off financially, but it will pay off more in the medium to long term. And this is a developer by the name of Jonathan Liebman, who is kind of making this a big project of his, apparently apartments. Now, you can get one between the range of 280,000 rand, or about $28,000American to 3 million rand, which is about 300,000. And Liebman says that these prices in Johannesburg are skyrocketing. So he can buy up buildings. He said he used to be you'd pay €100 a square meter for a building. And now because of the efforts of guys like him, the prices are going through the roof.
- [48:51]
Ben Boland
And in 2011, the government tried to combat this by ruling that local councils, local governments essentially are required to house anyone evicted to make room for a private or public development. But the problem is, according to activists, that the authorities who are charged with this responsibility only provide overcrowded blocks where families are still forcibly split up, or squalid slums, essentially. And even those only meet a fraction of the demand. So we can see with this, with the ecology, the environment in which these events occur, we can see how injustice becomes a daily part of almost every human being's life, right at least for that time. And so of course there is something tremendously powerful and cathartic about seeing justice done. Both for. Oddly enough, this is speculation, but both the pro apartheid racist forces, the authoritarians or the empire from your earlier comparison, and the rebel forces or the people fighting for equality, both saw something in Max the Guerrill guerrilla because they saw rule of law. Right. If you're pro police, you're seeing like, oh look, rule of law, the authorities won. If you're anti police, you're saying, oh, look, finally someone who can do the job. And because of this, for a time, Max becomes this universally lauded figure. And Isaac, the unfortunate Isaac Mofo Kung who goes to. Goes to jail.
- [50:40]
Max Williams
He is Captured, got a 40 year sentence.
- [50:42]
Ben Boland
Got a 40 year sentence.
- [50:44]
Max Williams
The judge referred to him as an unguided missile, a loose cannon, a time bomb. Because he had, you know, had just a rap sheet, a very thick one, let's say that.
- [50:54]
Ben Boland
Yeah. And he eventually passed away in a psychiatric hospital. But you and I were talking off air about this, Noel. There were some suspicious circumstances to his death.
- [51:05]
Max Williams
Yeah. Supposedly his sister got a call, I believe it was his sister from somebody from the facility saying that he had passed away after vomiting and collapsing. But then when they got to the hospital, the story changed to this idea that he had stolen a fistful of another patient's medication. When they come around with those trays, I guess, with the pills and the cups and gobbled them down, attempting suicide and succeeding. But the circumstances are a little murky and it's just the whole story is a little strange.
- [51:37]
Ben Boland
Yeah. And you have to put yourself in the family's position. How else can you react but with suspicion when someone tells you one story about your loved one's death and then they tell you a completely different story. So there remains from that family's perspective, an unsolved mystery regarding the shooter of Max, of the gorilla, regarding Isaac M.
- [52:04]
Savannah Guthrie
It's better over here.
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Max Williams
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Ben Boland
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Max Williams
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Ben Boland
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Max Williams
Prepaid MasterCard and 15 free phone up.
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Ben Boland
To $830 via 24 monthly bill credits plus tax.
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Max Williams
Qualifying port in trade in service on.
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Ben Boland
Go 5G next and credit required. Contact us before canceling entire account to continue bill credits or credit stop and balance and required finance agreement is due.
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Hoda Kotb
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Savannah Guthrie
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Hoda Kotb
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Ben Boland
Yeah, that's better.
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Hoda Kotb
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- [54:52]
Max Williams
See terms and conditions 18 + Imagine.
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- [55:29]
Ben Boland
We should also say Max's story doesn't end when he gets those endorsements. We have more news about Max the gorilla.
- [55:36]
Max Williams
Well, he was voted newsmaker of the year for South Africa for 1997. The Johannesburg Press Club. He was 26 years old at the should mention named this national guerrilla hero its newsmaker of 1997. And they presented him a giant trophy a meter high made of cake and fruit that he devoured on camera like promptly.
- [55:58]
Ben Boland
Right.
- [55:59]
Max Williams
Super good photo op.
- [56:00]
Ben Boland
Max went on to live at the Johannesburg Zoo as a symbol of justice, a symbol that something could be right in the world until the age of. Of 34. Which is pretty good for a gorilla.
- [56:15]
Max Williams
Not bad.
- [56:15]
Ben Boland
Where he. He passed away in his sleep in 2004, I want to say.
- [56:20]
Max Williams
Yeah, I believe it was from cardiac arrest, which is apparently a pretty common way for elderly gorillas to go.
- [56:26]
Ben Boland
And we did find a funny story about his love life. Do you think we got time to throw that in?
- [56:30]
Max Williams
Yeah, let's toss it in.
- [56:31]
Ben Boland
Okay. Okay. So. So Max the gorilla did show up in the news for or at least one non crime related thing, non advertisement related thing. We found a story about his love life that has some pretty interesting language in here. But Max's partner, Lisa, who he was protecting.
- [56:56]
Max Williams
He was protecting? Yeah. From Isaac.
- [56:58]
Ben Boland
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Max and Lisa were still together. This was a long running relationship. And some journalists believed that they had perhaps lost the spark because Max stopped being interested in intimacy with Lisa.
- [57:15]
Max Williams
Yeah. There's an article from Independent Online, Max the gorilla refuses to mate, where they talk about this issue and how the gorilla scientists there at the Johannesburg Zoo, because that's a job even considered dosing old Max possibly in a Gatorade equivalent to drink with some Viagra. Let us know. Right. Is any South African listeners. Let us know how to pronounce.
- [57:40]
Ben Boland
Send us some if you have some.
- [57:42]
Max Williams
But apparently gorillas in general don't really. They're not really that into sex in the first place. So once the spark is gone, the thrill is gone, my friend. It's gone for good.
- [57:54]
Ben Boland
Yeah. And then Max, as we said, passed away Peacefully in his sleep. That's a happy ending for him and his widow. Then Lisa continued on for about two years. She had another partner, a 19 year old named Mokoko.
- [58:14]
Max Williams
Young Buck.
- [58:15]
Ben Boland
Young Buck, the boy toy. And Lisa passed away in 2006 at the age of 35. She had during a surgery to determine whether or not she had a cancer growth. Oh, yeah. But neither of them died of gunshot wounds.
- [58:34]
Max Williams
That's very true. And to this day, there is a statue commemorating Max the gorilla at the Johannesburg Zoo that you can go visit in his honor.
- [58:44]
Ben Boland
And thus concludes our story of Max the gorilla. We found so many other amazing things. I had a really tough time not putting in more stories of animals doing heroic stuff with humans.
- [59:00]
Max Williams
I know there's a lot there. But, you know, we kind of. We took a pretty dark turn in this one and really needed that context and that background. And I'm glad we did. It's a little intense, but it also shows that the 90s. Totally historical time, my friend.
- [59:15]
Ben Boland
Yeah.
- [59:16]
Max Williams
For more reasons than just like Trapper Keepers and stuff across the world.
- [59:20]
Ben Boland
Guatemalan Civil War, for instance, you know. So we would like to thank you so much for spending some time with us today. We know this episode went a little bit long, but we wanted to, we wanted to explore, explore as much as we could, the story behind the story, which too often gets forgotten or relegated to a footnote in a history book. And we, of course would like to hear from you. You can find NOL super producer Casey and I all over the Internet. We're on Instagram, we're on Facebook. Check us out at ridiculous Historians where you can, you can find us hanging out in the forums posing and answering very strange questions.
- [59:58]
Max Williams
We also might be posing as other users. Creeping.
- [60:04]
Ben Boland
Oh, really?
- [60:05]
Max Williams
I have a pseudo account.
- [60:06]
Ben Boland
Yeah, did you start one?
- [60:08]
Max Williams
I can tell you the name, though, because then you'll know it's me. How's your Pinterest board coming, Ben?
- [60:12]
Ben Boland
Oh, yeah, well, I had a vision board.
- [60:16]
Max Williams
I'm sorry, excuse me. How's your vision board coming?
- [60:18]
Ben Boland
Thank you. It just keeps getting bigger.
- [60:22]
Max Williams
Yeah. You got a lot of vision.
- [60:24]
Ben Boland
Yeah. It's an ongoing effort. I think. Ridiculous historians a big part of it. The Facebook group. I've got a picture of the Facebook group. I've got a picture of you and I in a helicopter, which I think could be really cool at some point. So we'd like to hear from you, what are some other examples that you remember from your neck of the global woods involving an animal doing something heroic.
- [60:49]
Max Williams
Possibly in the 90s.
- [60:51]
Ben Boland
Possibly in the 90s. Yes, bonus points in the 90s. But we will be interested in any time period and it may end, end up on a future episode because I think we can make a really fascinating thing. It might have to be a list because there's so many. You know what? I've gotta, I gotta get out of here. I've gotta trim down my list. I found like 30.
- [61:11]
Max Williams
It's also memorial Day. Man, we should probably like go to the lake or something. Get on a boat.
- [61:16]
Ben Boland
Take a helicopter to a boat. Yeah.
- [61:19]
Max Williams
Oh, man. Let's take the ridiculous history copter.
- [61:22]
Ben Boland
The ridiculous.
- [61:23]
Max Williams
We have a helipad on the. The roof here at Pond City Market.
- [61:26]
Ben Boland
That is a true story.
- [61:27]
Max Williams
Right next to the mini golf course.
- [61:29]
Ben Boland
It's next to the mini golf course and the fancy hot dog stand. Yes. So we are going to get out of here. As always, thank you so much to our super producer, Casey Pegram. Thank you to Alex Williams who composed.
- [61:41]
Max Williams
The track and huge thanks as always to our top notch, grade A, one of a kind researcher, Christopher Hasiotes, who hipped us to the harrowing of Max the Gorilla. See you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
- [62:03]
Savannah Guthrie
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Ben Boland
Every day our world gets a little.
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Max Williams
More connected, but a little further apart.
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Ben Boland
But then there are moments that remind us to be more human.
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Don't worry, we'll get you taken care of at Amika. We understand that looking out for each.
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And listeners everywhere rejoiced.
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