First Ladies Who Weren't Wives, Part Two, Part Two: Some Folks Didn't Want The Job

Summary

Podcast Summary: Ridiculous History - "First Ladies Who Weren't Wives, Part Two: Some Folks Didn't Want The Job"

---

Introduction

In the episode titled "First Ladies Who Weren't Wives, Part Two: Some Folks Didn't Want The Job," hosts Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown delve into the intriguing stories of women who assumed the role of First Lady without being the presidents' wives. Building on their previous discussions, the hosts explore the lives and contributions of Mary Arthur McElroy, Martha Johnson Patterson, Rose Cleveland, and Margaret Wilson. This episode sheds light on the unique challenges and personal choices these women faced while fulfilling the duties of the White House hostess.

---

Mary Arthur McElroy: Reluctant Hostess (00:43 - 08:05)

Ben Bollen introduces Mary Arthur McElroy, an often-overlooked figure in American history. As the sister of President Chester A. Arthur, Mary stepped into the role of Executive Hostess in 1881 following the untimely death of Arthur's wife, Ellen Lewis Herndon.

Mary, a middle-aged mother of four, initially felt unequipped for the social responsibilities of the White House. “She said, look, I am not familiar with all the to dos and the customs and the legacy requirements of the White House” (01:38). Despite her reservations, Mary gradually embraced her role, becoming renowned for her New Year's galas and open house dinner receptions. She sought guidance from former first ladies Julia Tyler and Harriet Lane to navigate the intricate social norms.

Key Points:

• Mary Arthur McElroy's temporary role as Executive Hostess.
• Her initial reluctance and eventual adaptation to White House duties.
• Collaboration with former first ladies for social guidance.
• Popularity and favorable reputation despite the temporary nature of her position.

---

Martha Johnson Patterson: A Shadowed Tenure During Turmoil (08:05 - 12:19)

The discussion shifts to Martha Johnson Patterson, the daughter of President Andrew Johnson. Due to her mother's chronic illness, Martha assumed the First Lady role during a tumultuous period following the Civil War and Lincoln's assassination.

Martha's tenure was marked by personal challenges and national instability. As Noel Brown explains, “She was considered a general favorite at the White House” (05:58), but her shy and unwell disposition led her to delegate many responsibilities to her daughter, Martha Johnson Patterson. Under her stewardship, the White House saw practical improvements like installing milk cows on the lawn and redecorating interiors to reflect Tennessee heritage.

Notable Quote: “She made no pretenses of any sort, but was always honest and direct” (11:28).

Key Points:

• Martha Johnson Patterson's assumption of duties amid post-Civil War mourning.
• Limited social engagements and practical contributions to the White House.
• Delegation of duties to her daughter due to personal strain.
• Efforts to stabilize and personalize the White House environment.

---

Rose Cleveland: The Literary Heartbroken Hostess (17:29 - 23:28)

Rose Cleveland, sister to President Grover Cleveland, is highlighted as another unexpected First Lady who primarily sought scholarly pursuits over social obligations. Born in 1846, Rose was deeply invested in literature and authored two books during her brief tenure as First Lady.

Rose's reluctance to engage in traditional hostess activities is evident. "She would just sit staring off in the distance and apparently she would conjugate Greek verbs in her mind to pass the time” (20:53). Her literary passion often took precedence over her duties, leading her to advocate for her brother's marriage, allowing her to return to her preferred scholarly life.

Notable Quote: “She was more interested in pursuing scholarship and reading than in hanging out with the crew of wives” (20:13).

Key Points:

• Rose Cleveland's brief role as First Lady without formal designation.
• Her literary contributions and preference for intellectual activities.
• Balancing public duties with personal academic interests.
• Transition of duties to her sister-in-law upon her brother's marriage.

---

Margaret Wilson: A Progressive Stand Amid Tradition (32:25 - 34:09)

The final featured figure is Margaret Wilson, daughter of President Woodrow Wilson. Unlike her predecessors, Margaret embraced progressive ideals and actively supported women's suffrage. After her mother's passing in 1914, she briefly took on the role of White House hostess before pursuing her passion for music and activism.

Margaret's commitment to social causes and Eastern philosophies set her apart. She traveled to Europe to perform for troops during World War I and later moved to India to live at a guru's ashram, reflecting her deep engagement with mindfulness and meditation.

Notable Quote: “She only holds the post of first lady for a few months and eventually she says, ugh, this is too stuffy. I'm gonna pursue my dream of being a soprano vocalist” (32:25).

Key Points:

• Margaret Wilson's brief tenure as White House hostess following her mother's death.
• Advocacy for women's suffrage and engagement in social activism.
• Pursuit of personal dreams in music and literature over traditional roles.
• Influence of Eastern philosophy on her personal and professional life.

---

Conclusion: Redefining the Role of First Ladies

Ben and Noel conclude the episode by reflecting on the evolving nature of the First Lady role. They emphasize that the stories of Mary Arthur McElroy, Martha Johnson Patterson, Rose Cleveland, and Margaret Wilson challenge traditional narratives and highlight the diverse paths women have taken in American political history. The hosts advocate for a future where the role can be embraced by "first gentlemen" or individuals who defy traditional family structures, fostering a more inclusive and modern understanding of White House host responsibilities.

Notable Quote: “With a lot of current politics, we certainly see a lot of tradition getting thrown out the window. Not always for the better. So I would love to see a world where we have a first gentleman” (35:27).

Key Points:

• Recognition of First Ladies who were not presidents' wives.
• Importance of remembering and honoring these unique contributions.
• Future possibilities for the role's evolution to include diverse representations.
• Encouragement towards a more inclusive understanding of political host roles.

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of Ridiculous History provides a fascinating exploration of women who stepped into the First Lady role without being the president's spouse. Through detailed historical accounts and engaging discussions, Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown highlight the personal sacrifices, societal pressures, and unique contributions of these remarkable women. Their stories underscore the complexity and adaptability required to fulfill the duties of White House hostess in times of personal and national upheaval.

---

Notable Quotes Overview:

• Ben Bollen (01:38): "Mary Arthur McElroy said, look, I am not familiar with all the to dos and the customs and the legacy requirements of the White House."
• Noel Brown (11:28): "She made no pretenses of any sort, but was always honest and direct."
• Ben Bollen (20:13): "She was more interested in pursuing scholarship and reading than in hanging out with the crew of wives."
• Noel Brown (32:25): "She only holds the post of first lady for a few months and eventually she says, ugh, this is too stuffy. I'm gonna pursue my dream of being a soprano vocalist."
• Noel Brown (35:27): "With a lot of current politics, we certainly see a lot of tradition getting thrown out the window. Not always for the better. So I would love to see a world where we have a first gentleman."

---

Note: Advertisements, tangents, and non-content sections from the transcript have been excluded to maintain focus on the historical narratives and discussions central to the episode.

Transcript

[Ben Bollen]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show, fellow Ridiculous historians. Thank you as always so much for tuning in. That's our super producer, Mr. Max. Welcome back. Williams. Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back. I love that theme song for that song.

[Noel Brown]

Mr. Cotter.

[Ben Bollen]

Yes. Yeah. You nailed it. Who just nailed that? That's Mr. Noel Brown. They call me Ben Bollen. This is our continuing series on the First Ladies who Weren't Wives. Please check out our previous episodes on this and I'm excited about this one, Noel, because as our research associate JE Factor G. Bartlett revealed to us fairly recently in his research, there's one first lady who just didn't want the job.

[Noel Brown]

That's right.

[Ben Bollen]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Max Williams]

Is moderate to severe plaque psoriasis keeping you from being you? Get back to clearer skin with Bimzelix Bimicizumab bkzx, a prescription medicine taken by injection used to treat moderate to severe plaque psoriasis in adults who are candidates for systemic therapy or phototherapy. Bimzelix can deliver transformative relief. Most people got 100% clear skin in combined clinical studies, nearly 9 in 10 people saw 90% clearer skin and more than 6 in 10 saw 100% clearer skin at 16 weeks.

[Unknown]

Serious side effects like suicidal thoughts and behavior, infections and lowered ability to fight them, liver problems and inflammatory bowel disease have occurred. Tell your doctor if these happen or worsen or fevers, chills, muscle aches or cough occur or you've had a vaccine or plan to before starting. Get checked for infections, tuberculosis and liver problems.

[Max Williams]

Start to get yourself back. Ask your dermatologist about Bimzelics. Learn [e-mail] or call 1-833-UCB now. One life's messy. We're talking spills, stains, pets and kids. But with Anabe, you never have to stress about Messes [e-mail] Discover Anabe Sofas the only fully machine washable sofas inside and out, starting at just $699. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, that means fewer stains and more peace of mind. Designed for real life, our sofas feature changeable fabric covers allowing you to refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly. Perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes. Plus, they're earth friendly and built to last. That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch. Upgrade your space today. Visit washablesofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life that's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Unknown]

Lenovo is built for creators who don't wait for inspiration. They chase it with inventive tech, built in AI tools and seamless performance. Lenovo devices powered by Intel Core Ultra processors are designed to bring your wildest ideas to life faster. That's the power of Lenovo. With intel inside. Enjoy flexible financing, rewards on every purchase, and free shipping. And students get special offers when you create an [e-mail] lenovo lenovo.

[Noel Brown]

Honestly, honestly, Honestly.

[Unknown]

No one wants to think about hiv, but there are things that everyone can do to help prevent it. Things like prep. Prep stands for Pre Exposure Prophylaxis, and it means routinely taking prescription medicine before you're exposed to HIV to help reduce your chances of getting it. Prep can be about 99% effective when taken as prescribed. It doesn't protect against other STIs, though, so be sure to use condoms and other healthy sex practices. Ask a healthcare provider about all your prevention options. Visit findoutaboutprep.com to learn more. Sponsored by Gilead.

[Noel Brown]

That's right. Indeed. He found this one particularly interesting, as did we. As Jeff puts it, she was there but she didn't care.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, she is called by various historians one of American history's more obscure first ladies, Mary Arthur McElroy. She became the executive hostess in 1881 because her brother Chester A. Arthur was a widower and he only became president because James A. Garfield was assassinated. So she said, look, I am not familiar with all the to dos and the customs and the legacy requirements of the White House when she got there. She's a middle aged mother of four. She eventually does assimilate, you could call it, and she becomes known favorably for her New Year's galas and her open house dinner receptions. She also gets by with a little help from her friends. I had not heard of this before. She enlists former first ladies to help her figure out all the social norms and the fancy cues. And those First Ladies that she crowdsources with are Julia Tyler and the aforementioned Harriet Lane.

[Noel Brown]

So Mary Arthur McElroy. Or maybe McElroy. Either one's fine. Her brother, Chester A. Arthur was a widower when he became president in 1881, and his wife, Ellen Nell Lewis Herndon. Arthur had passed away sadly from pneumonia in 1880. Mrs. McElroy agreed to become the White House hostess, though I don't believe she was given the designation of first lady right off the rip out of respect for the passing of Arthur's wife.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah. And she was doing everything that a First lady would do. But you're right, there was a matter of necessity and a matter of respect. They needed someone to fill that role during the busy social season of the winter months. And in spring she went back to, I'll say it, her real family. She was considered a general favorite at the White House. She had to assume these social duties really just to help out her brother. So we don't have to say too much more about her, except one thing that stood out to all of us. She did not want women to vote.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, and I thought I misread that when I first started going through the brief, but it's true and it is indeed a bit of a head scratcher.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, yeah. She was against temperance, which makes her an interesting character.

[Noel Brown]

She thought he for the drink, but against the vote for once, for the.

[Ben Bollen]

Drink, against the vote. She thought it was fine for lady and lad alike to get soused in the White House, but she did not want the ladies to vote. And it was part of her extremely active civil life. She was notably active in the Albany branch of the New York State Association Opposed to women's Suffrage or as anyone knows, Nisalves.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, that's where I thought I made a little whoopsie when I was reading through it. But that opposed very much part of this organization's mission. Although McElroy served as her brother's first lady, she was not, of course, as we mentioned, given that formal recognition out of respect for his wife. However, this did not hurt her reputation. She was popular, like you said. She was a local favorite and quite the hostess with the mostest. Her duties, however, were somewhat limited as the Arthur administration wasn't as big on the social season as other administrations. And this was out of deference to the late President Garfield.

[Ben Bollen]

And as we move through history, we'll jump around a bit. Jump around, jump around.

[Noel Brown]

Get out your seat or stay seated. It's fine.

[Ben Bollen]

Right. We'll introduce you to another reluctant first lady, one who did not care for the job, and that would be Andrew Johnson's wife. Okay. Jeff puts it this way. She was there, but she didn't care. She was also pretty sick. Not in the hip hop sense. And that didn't help. She eventually passes the torch of First Ladyship to. To their daughter because she, at some point, Eliza Johnson just doesn't want to do it. She's just fed up with it.

[Noel Brown]

And this is not to mention that his administration was particularly fraught, referred to it as our [e-mail] do as embattled. She, however, was so publicly and outwardly shy and kind of weedy and sickly that she passed along most of her duties again, like you said, to her eldest daughter, Martha, Martha Johnson Patterson. And there was this kind of pall of mourning over the whole proceedings, especially in the years leading up to the civil war and after Lincoln was assassinated. So Martha kind of adopted, you know, conformed to the times and took on this air of restraint, modesty, and, I don't know, a little bit dourness in the White House. Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Bollen]

Because post civil war, the nation is in mourning. Many people have lost loved ones, and people are also not too sure about the stability of the American experiment. She did choose her words wisely. When she spoke In 1865, she said, look, we are plain folks from Tennessee, called here by a national calamity. I hope not too much will be expected of us. She did some things that would speak to their Tennessee heritage. In addition to managing social receptions, Martha installed milk cows on the White House lawn. She redecorated the interior, which seems to happen every time there's a new first lady. She got paintings of past presidents into a gallery. One person, a member of staff, would later describe the president's daughter as, quote, the real mistress of the White House. She made no pretenses of any sort, but was always honest and direct.

[Noel Brown]

That's right. She was the eldest child of Andrew and Eliza Johnson and born in Tennessee on October 25th of 1828. Her father served in Congress, and she attended school in Georgetown, occasionally visiting the polka, the administration, the Polk White House. On December 13th of 1855, she got married to a gentleman by the name of David Trotter Patterson, and they had two kiddos, Andrew Johnson and Mary Bell, in the preceding years. And when her father did become president, somewhat unexpectedly, of course, not somewhat very much unexpectedly. After Abraham Lincoln had that really rough night at the theater that we always talk about. In 1865, Martha was able to help out with some of first lady duties and responsibilities because her mother was so.

[Ben Bollen]

Chronically ill. And a lot of what they're doing at this point, we could think of it as cleaning up the mess after the bloody party of the civil War. The White House is in disarray. It's wrecked. It was a very stressful time. Interesting note here and a bit of nepotism. You'll notice that Martha's last name is Patterson. That's because she married David Trotter Patterson, who himself was a member of Congress. He served as a senator from Tennessee from 1866 until 1869. And this was after Tennessee, the Volunteer State, became the first Confederate state to be readmitted to the Union. Senator Patterson's duties during the trial of Andrew Johnson's impeachment made the political process and the marriage process difficult for the couple. Their relationship was fraught again, to reuse that word, because Martha was certain that the charges against her father were false. By the time the Senate vote fell too short to convict Johnson on these impeachment charges, Martha the Patterson family was just tired of the circus we call Washington, D.C. she didn't want the job. She helped clean up. She left. Which brings us to another one I think we're excited to talk about. Imagine a First lady who felt like she didn't need a husband at all. This is Rose Cleveland.

[Max Williams]

Is moderate to severe plaque psoriasis keeping you covered up and feeling less confident? Clearer skin with Bimzelix can give you a chance to say I'm back. Bimzelix Bimakizumab bkzx is a prescription medication taken by injection used to treat moderate to severe plaque psoriasis in adults who are candidates for systemic therapy or phototherapy. Bimzelix can deliver transformative relief. Most people got 100% clear skin in combined clinical studies. Nearly 9 in 10 people saw 90% clearer skin and more than 6 in 10 saw 100% clearer skin at 16 weeks. Start getting back to liking your reflection, say so long to long sleeves. Love your skin again with Bemzelix. Only Bemzelix targets and blocks IL17A F to calm inflammation.

[Unknown]

Serious side effects like suicidal thoughts in behavior, infections and lowered ability to fight them. Liver problems and inflammatory bowel disease have occurred. Tell your doctor if these happen or worsen or fevers, chills, muscle aches or cough occur or you've had a vaccine or plan to before starting. Get checked for infections, tuberculosis and liver problems.

[Max Williams]

Get back to clearer skin. Ask your dermatologist about Bimzelix, the first approved treatment of its kind. Learn [e-mail] or call 1-833-UCB now one let's be real. Life happens. Kids spill, pets shed and accidents are inevitable. Find a sofa that can keep [e-mail] starting at just $699. Our sofas are fully machine washable inside and out so you can say goodbye to stains and hello to worry free living. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, they're kid proof, pet friendly and built for everyday life. Plus, changeable fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want. Neat flexibility. Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space, whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment. Plus, they're earth friendly and trusted by over 200,000 happy customers. Customers. It's time to upgrade to a stress free mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save that's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Unknown]

Lenovo is built for creators who don't wait for inspiration. They chase it with inventive tech, built in AI tools and seamless performance. Lenovo devices powered by Intel Core Ultra processors are designed to bring your wildest ideas to life faster. That's the power of Lenovo with Intel inside, enjoy flexible financing, rewards on every purchase and free shipping. And students get special offers when you create an [e-mail].

[Noel Brown]

Picture this. You're halfway through a DIY car fix, tools scattered everywhere, and boom. You realize you're missing a part.

[Ben Bollen]

It's okay, because you know whatever it is, it's on ebay.

[Noel Brown]

They've got everything. Brakes, headlights, cold air intakes, whatever you need.

[Ben Bollen]

And it's guaranteed to fit. Which means no more crossing your fingers and hoping you ordered the right thing.

[Noel Brown]

All the parts you need at prices you'll love.

[Ben Bollen]

Guaranteed to fit every time.

[Noel Brown]

Ebay Things People Love she was born in New York in 1846, the youngest of Richard and Ann Cleveland, youngest of nine children and the sister of future President Grover Cleveland, which is a great name, who was nine years older than she was. Cleveland attended school at Houghton Seminary, religious school, of course, and she taught school in Pennsylvania and New York. And she was particularly interested and invested in literature.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, yeah. So her unmarried older brother becomes POTUS in 1885, President of the United States. Ms. Cleveland moves to Washington, where she's going to serve as First Lady. In practice, the White House hostess, she spearheads the traditional receptions, the dinners, all that almost said flim flammery, we'll keep it all that high to do. And while she's doing this, she also finds time to pursue her primary love, which is literature. By the time she's been first lady for just 15 months, she's written two books, one a study of George Eliot's poetry and one called you'd and Moral, Intellectual and Social Culture. She would much rather be someone who hangs out at a book club or a salon instead of sitting through the mindless nattering of social gatherings. But when she was called to serve, she did. Her receptions were well attended, she was well liked. And she didn't have to be first lady for too long because our buddy Grover gets hitched. On June 2, 1886, he marries Frances Folsom and she takes over as the first lady proper. Everybody looks back on Rose Cleveland and unanimously agrees. Contemporary accounts as well as the work of later historians, they all agree that she had very little interest in becoming the first Lady. She did it mainly to be a good sister, to help out her older brother. And she was so ready to skedaddle. She was probably the one pushing him into marriage.

[Noel Brown]

Right.

[Ben Bollen]

Cause she wanted to leave and write more books.

[Noel Brown]

Yep, that is correct. Wasn't she one of the original Blue Stocking folks? The whole Blue Stocking Society, which I believe was like a literary circle.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was more, much more interested, if we're being honest, in pursuing scholarship and reading than she was in hanging out with the crew of wives and the wives of foreign dignitaries. I guess the best way to say it candidly is it sounds like she was really bored. And she would just literally sit through these long foreign meetups or these galas. And she might not talk that much. She would just sit staring off in the distance and apparently she would conjugate Greek verbs in her mind to pass the time.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, it's like a much more intelligent version of like playing Sudoku or like around on your phone, you know, during these meetings, she was not present. She was miles away.

[Ben Bollen]

If there was a phone available at the time, if smartphones were a thing, she would have been that person who was on the phone during the conversation, which is, by the way, huge, rude, social sopa Social faux pas, folks.

[Noel Brown]

No question about it, Ben. It was during these years that she started to work on some books, some nonfiction works, George Eliot's poetry and other studies, which did go on to be published in 1885, as well as you and Moral, Intellectual and Social Culture, which was published in 1886.

[Ben Bollen]

And here's a little bit of sauce with this historical entry. A little bit of sauce with the historical entree here. Three years after Rose leaves the White House and is no longer pinch hitting as first lady, she meets a wealthy 32 year old widow named Evangeline Mars Whipple. As you can tell, that's a name that commonly comes with money. She's vacationing in Florida and they connect. They begin exchanging love letters in April 1890. We're getting this from Smithsonian magazine, by the way. Her love letters are donated to the Minnesota historical society in 1969 by a relative of someone in Evangeline's family, Bishop Henry Benjamin Whipple, and that's Evangeline's second husband. They didn't get published until 2019 in a collection called Precious and the Love Letters of Rose Cleveland and Evangeline Simpson Whipple, 1890-1918. We don't know what Evangeline wrote to Rose, but we do know that Rose quotes Evangeline a lot in those letters. And maybe we could read just an excerpt of what? The kind of stuff Rose wrote to Evangeline.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, yeah, we definitely must. You are mine, she said, and I am yours. And we are one, and our lives are one. Henceforth, please, God, who can alone separate us, I am bold to say this, to pray, and to live it. Am I too bold, Eve? Tell me. I shall go to bed, Eve, with your letters under my pillow. Okay. Got some longing being expressed here. A little bit of longing.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah. And it's classy longing. It's not James Joyce longing.

[Unknown]

It ain't some farty princess thing. Side note, can I do a quick tangent here, guys?

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, yeah, tell us. You had a Garfield tangent, correct?

[Unknown]

No, this is actually a tangent about something I texted y' all about. But when I was out west, I met my buddy Kev's longtime girlfriend, Litzy for the first time, and within an hour, I was telling her about the James Joyce love letters.

[Ben Bollen]

Oh, yeah, yeah, you mentioned that. Yes.

[Unknown]

Farty princess.

[Ben Bollen]

Gross. But what poetic descriptions of farts.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, yeah, that's true. Very good fart pros. Yeah, very good fart. Can't deny that. Can't deny that.

[Ben Bollen]

But we don't want to leave you without a dope beat to step to. We have more that we should get to. But, Max, while we've got you on the horn for some tangents, I believe there was also a Garfield tangent you wanted to share.

[Unknown]

Sure. And if you are willing, I have a bunch more, but I'll rapid fire them. Okay. Because as you guys know, I'm the president's guy. So most importantly, I want to state this. Just, look, this is something I've learned while working on the show, that Garfield was a really cool guy. Like, he really was. Like, his story is cool. He was like, really? Like, I have. I have a research brief coming up. But. But he's like. You know, people always say, like, you should only elect a president who doesn't want the job, which. There's flaws in that philosophy that goes.

[Ben Bollen]

Back to Roman days. Yeah, right.

[Unknown]

Garfield was actually kind of that like everyone was throwing him under the bus for him to become president while he was trying to get his friend to become president. It's kind of sad how he, he got. How he got murdered and assassinated. On the other hand, Arthur was a very unlikable guy. Everyone hated Chester Arthur. They his own party didn't put him up for reelection. Talking about Andrew Johnson, he was a survivor, I believe of a tri assassination attempt between him, Lincoln and Mr. Alaska himself. Sewell, the Secretary of State. Because at the point they only went up three ways to get all three of them. There would be no president. Johnson gained success because he was the only senator of a succession state to show back up at work after his stake with the country. And the last one about Johnson, I'll let you go. It's true fact. We just want to know how bad of a person says he is one of only two presidents to not have a known pet.

[Ben Bollen]

Yes, yes, one of only two. And you can guess the second one, folks.

[Unknown]

I'm not going to say. Yeah, technically there's three now.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah. Okay. Well, be that as it may, the American experiment continues. Everything you just heard Max say is factually accurate with one exception. You are not the sole president guy here. Mr. Williams. I would say we are all the President's men.

[Unknown]

We are nerds.

[Ben Bollen]

We certainly are.

[Noel Brown]

Have you seen that movie all the President's Men? I haven't seen it. I heard it's great.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, it's pretty good. It's pretty good. I don't recall it in full clarity because it's been a while. What I've been really on a kick on recently, guys, is spy films. John Lecaire, just like Roald Dahl, is a fascinating character. He's the guy who wrote the novels that inspired things like Tinker Taylor, Soldier Spy, if you've seen that one for.

[Noel Brown]

Sure and if you're into that kind of stuff. Ben, I'm not sure if we talked about this or if you've seen it, but a recent movie that kind of flew under a lot of people's radars but was one of my favorite of the year. Black Bag, a Steven Soderbergh film that is very much in the realm of a more modern kind of Tinker Tailor thing.

[Ben Bollen]

Oh, I love it. I've been on that kick so hard for different reasons you fall in love with the genre and it continues.

[Max Williams]

Is moderate to severe plaque psoriasis keeping you covered up and feeling less confident. Clearer skin with Bimzelix can give you a chance to say I'm back. Bimzelix Bimakizumab bkzx is a prescription medication taken by injection used to treat moderate to severe plaque psoriasis in adults who are candidates for systemic therapy or phototherapy. Vimzelics can deliver transformative relief. Most people got 100% clear skin in combined clinical studies, nearly 9 in 10 people saw 90% clearer skin and more than 6 in 10 saw 100% clear skin at 16 weeks. Start getting back to liking your reflection, say so long to long sleeves. Love your skin again with Bimzelics only Bimzelics targets and blocks IL17A F to calm inflammation.

[Unknown]

Serious side effects like suicidal thoughts and behavior, infections and lowered ability to fight them. Liver problems and inflammatory bowel disease have occurred. Tell your doctor if these happen or worsen or fevers, chills, muscle aches or cough occur or you've had a vaccine or plan to before starting. Get checked for infections, tuberculosis and liver problems.

[Max Williams]

Get back to clearer skin. Ask your dermatologist about Bimzelix, the first approved treatment of its kind. Learn more at b I m Z-E-L x.com or call 1-833-UCB now one let's be real life happens. Kids spill, pets shed and accidents are inevitable. Find a sofa that can keep [e-mail] Starting at just $699, our sofas are fully machine washable inside and out so you can say goodbye to stains and hello to worry free living. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, they're kid proof, pet friendly and built for everyday life. Plus, changeable fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want. Need flexibility? Our model modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space, whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment. Plus, they're earth friendly and trusted by over 200,000 happy customers. It's time to upgrade to a stress free mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save that's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Unknown]

Lenovo is built for creators who don't wait for inspiration. They chase it with inventive tech built in AI tools and seamless professionals performance. Lenovo devices powered by Intel Core Ultra processors are designed to bring your wildest ideas to life faster. That's the power of Lenovo with Intel inside. Enjoy flexible financing, rewards on every purchase and free shipping, and students get special offers when you create an [e-mail].

[Noel Brown]

Picture this. You're halfway through a DIY car fix, tools scattered everywhere, and boom, you realize you're missing a part.

[Ben Bollen]

It's okay because, you know, whatever it is, it's on ebay.

[Noel Brown]

They've got everything. Brakes, headlights, cold air intakes. Whatever you need.

[Ben Bollen]

And it's guaranteed to fit. Which means no more crossing your fingers and hoping you ordered the right thing.

[Noel Brown]

All the parts you need at prices you'll love.

[Ben Bollen]

Guaranteed to fit every time.

[Noel Brown]

Ebay. Things people love.

[Ben Bollen]

And folks, we have one more story to share with you. This is a story that kind of makes up for our anti suffragette person. We want to introduce you to Margaret Wilson, the daughter of Woodrow Wilson, who actually was a suffragette. Thank goodness she did like the idea that all people should be able to vote.

[Noel Brown]

And Max has real feelings about Woodrow Wilson, if I remember correctly. Also a bit of a turd of a president.

[Unknown]

He is a complicated president. He is. He's all gas, no brakes. Everything with his history is either really good or really awful.

[Noel Brown]

Okay. I thought you hated his guts for some reason. I do.

[Unknown]

I hate him as a person.

[Noel Brown]

Okay, got it.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah. Yeah. But he's got a tut touch.

[Unknown]

He was very influential in getting women the right to vote, which was, if I remember correctly, in the amendments came after the ability to elect senators, which also is in the last hundred plus years, we became able to elect our own senators.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, he was also able to get stuff done. So he was an effective navigator of, at times, labyrinthine politics, which was even.

[Unknown]

Worse at that point in time because he was a minority president elect because Teddy Roosevelt split the Republican Party and he got in despite not being like, basically, if it would have been Teddy Roosevelt or Tasserin against him, he wouldn't have gotten elected. But since it was both, he didn't get elected.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah, because third parties have a troubled history here in the United States and good luck, Eli. Keep it in. Keep it in.

[Noel Brown]

So.

[Ben Bollen]

This person, Margaret Wilson, as we noted, she is not the spouse of Woodrow Wilson, she is his daughter. She assumes the role of White House hostess after her mother passes away in 1914. So again, we see a lot of family members having this position foisted upon them due to tragedy. Right. Due to a spouse dying. So she is 28 years old. Picture almost like an Amelie esque character. She's known for being free spirited and she doesn't like authoritarianism. She doesn't love the patriarchal rules of the day. She only holds the post of first lady for a few months and eventually she says, ugh, this is too stuffy. This is not for me. I'm gonna pursue my dream of being a soprano vocalist.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, exactly. When President Wilson became engaged to his second wife, Edith In 1915, Margaret stepped aside to follow that very dream. Right. And began traveling the world across Europe to perform for the troops in World War I. She also later worked in advertising and lobbied for several social causes that were near and dear to her. But she is best known most likely for her love of Eastern philosophy and Hinduism and, you know, meditation and mindfulness. So before she passed away in 1944, she got so obsessed with the work of a particular guru named Sri Aurobindu that she moved to India to live in his commune or ashram.

[Ben Bollen]

Yeah. And she was very. I'm so interested in the fact that not only was she a social activist with a lot of daring do for a person in her position at the time, but she also had that Mad Men streak where she's working in advertising. That's crazy cool. As of this point in history, she's only the second first lady to explicitly support women's suffrage. The first being, of course, Helen Heron Taft. And with that, folks, we see that despite the narrative that the United States tells itself, there are a lot of first ladies who were not in fact, spouses. And that's cool. I wouldn't say it's hidden history necessarily, but it is history that we forget and it's important to remember, especially as the country continues. Spoiler. Folks, we all reside in the US Most of the time, as a nation, we're looking at a world where there may be a first gentleman. Right. We're looking at a world where the old constraints of marriage and the so called nuclear family are increasingly being interrogated and perhaps, or I would argue this is for the betterment of society overall.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, it's weird. It is one of those things that has kind of maintained that sort of stuffy, you know, historical tradition kind of thing. But with a lot of current politics, we certainly see a lot of tradition getting thrown out the window. Not always for the better. So I would love to see a world where we have a first gentleman. Ben.

[Ben Bollen]

I'm with you there, Noel. I don't want the job. But I would also, you know, you're my first gentleman.

[Noel Brown]

Always.

[Ben Bollen]

You're my first gentleman.

[Unknown]

I would take Jonathan Strickland.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, God, he's nobody's first anything. I'm just kidding. We love Jonathan. It's fun.

[Ben Bollen]

I also, just a side note, since we're at the end of the show, I also wonder what would happen if there was ever like a polyamorous president elected? A lot of them were polyamorous in practice, but not in name.

[Noel Brown]

So what if there's like a Pollyanna ish president perhaps? We've had those. We've definitely had those.

[Ben Bollen]

What if there's a thruple? What if a president is part of a thrupal and then they have to do they rock, scissors, paper? Do they do a Rochambeau for who gets to be the first lady story for another day. Big thanks, of course, to our super producer, Mr. Max Williams. Big thanks to Jonathan Strickland, aka the Quizzter, as well as the legendary Alex Williams, who composed this bop.

[Noel Brown]

Indeed. And huge thanks to Christopher Haciotes and Eve's Jeffcoats here in spirit.

[Ben Bollen]

Big, big thanks, of course, to the rude dudes over at Ridiculous Crime. If you dig our show, you'll dig theirs like a grave. Kidding. It is one of the only true crime shows out there that is 99% murder free. So check it out. It's fun for the adults and some of the older kiddos alike. In the meantime, tune in next week. We're going to be exploring even more ridiculous history. Noel, did you. I think we talked about it offline, but one of my favorite recent classic episodes we published was the story of old knife hands.

[Noel Brown]

Old knife hands. The knifiest of hands did he have. It's true. Yeah, dude, check that one out. Was he like a mummy or something? What was his superhero?

[Ben Bollen]

It was a corpse discovered where his hand had been amputated and they put a knife on it.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, okay. Why not? We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Here at the Almond Joy Factory, where tropical vibes abound, we use soft, fresh.

[Unknown]

Tasting coconut, the crunchiest almonds, and delicious chocolate candy.

Ah, but do you know what our.

[Noel Brown]

Most important ingredient is?

[Ben Bollen]

Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.

[Unknown]

Almond Joy's got nuts.

[Noel Brown]

And something even way better than that.

[Unknown]

Yes, Almond Joy is made with almonds and joy. Lenovo is built for creators who don't wait for inspiration. They chase it with inventive tech, built in AI tools and and seamless performance. Lenovo devices powered by Intel Core Ultra processors are designed to bring your wildest ideas to life faster. That's the power of Lenovo with Intel inside. Enjoy flexible financing, rewards on every purchase and free shipping. And students get special offers when you create an [e-mail].

[Danielle Fischl]

This is Danielle Fischl from Pod Meets World. Okay moms, it's that time again. Back to school. And if you're anything like me, you want your kids to look great without spending a fortune. And that's why I've been hitting up JCPenney. They've got the trends your kids actually want to wear, from graphic tees and cool denim to shoes and backpacks, all at prices you'll feel really good about. And yes, I may have grabbed something for myself too, like the sleeveless Chevron crochet midi dress. It is so cute, so flattering, and perfect for everything from weekend errands to brunch with friends. When I told my friends it was from JCPenney, they were floored. It just goes to show how much style and value you can find when you know where to look. JCPenney seriously makes it so easy to check off everything on your list and maybe treat yourself while you're at it. Whether you're shopping in store or online, it's one stop shopping for the whole family. So if you've been sleeping on JCPenney, now is the time to wake up. Shop back to school and [e-mail] yes, JCPenney.

[Unknown]

This episode is brought to you by Hendrix Ginn. This is Robert Lamb from Stuff to Blow youw Mind. Here at Stuff to Blow youw Mind, we celebrate curiosity. And that's why I want to take a minute to talk about Hendrix Gin, the refreshingly curious choice for marvelous summer cocktails. Hendrix is crafted with care in Scotland by master distiller Ms. Leslie Gracie, and is uniquely infused with rose and cucumber. To learn more about Hendrix and to find more refreshing cocktail recipes, visit hendrixgen.com US Drink Responsibly Hendrix Gin 44% alcohol by volume 2025 imported by William Grant & Sons Incorporated, New York, NY.

[Noel Brown]

This is an I Heart podcast.