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- [00:00]
A
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartradio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you as always, so much for tuning in. Hot dog. Who is that? Our super producer, Mr. Max Williams. Hot diggity dog.
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B
Chocolate starfish.
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A
Chocolate starfish.
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B
And the hot dog flavor water.
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A
That's none other than Mr. Noel Brown.
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B
No diggity.
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A
Wonderful.
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B
No doubt.
- [00:51]
A
Co host, brother and podcast arms. Also the research associate for today's episode.
- [00:57]
B
And the front person. And the friend. The front person of Olympus. Get. Cover band. I've been keeping that from you guys. It's what I do on the weekends when no one's looking. I'd be rolling. They hate him. Well, no, that's different. I roll and roll and roll and rolling. And you're Ben. Bowling. Bowling, bowling, bowling. You already said that. You did say that. I'm just fitting it into the whole Limp Bizkit motif. Rocking at the top here. Because we are indeed talking about. We're talking sausage.
- [01:28]
A
Yes, yes, hot dogs indeed. As you may recall, they're a pretty big deal in the US culture. But the story doesn't really start there, does it, Nolan?
- [01:42]
B
Does it ever? Well, maybe sometimes.
- [01:45]
A
Maybe sometimes. Maybe sometimes. But it's funny because I was thinking about your research here not too long ago when I was in a hurry to make dinner and I said, you know what? I'm going to make a couple dogs. I'm going to do it right. I'm going to have some relish, I'm going to have a little bit of onion, a little bit of chili, got nasty with some cheese. And I thought, oh man, this is such a great. This is such a great food stuff. But I think, no, maybe we start here. I don't know about you, man, but I've always been mystified by the cylindrical, tubular, dare we say, phallic shape of the hot dog. How does that happen?
- [02:35]
B
We mustn't, Ben. But we will. No, it's true. You can't really look at a hot dog and not think that. At least for a hot second. It all comes back to guts, man. It's all about guts.
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C
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
- [02:53]
D
This message is brought to you by Apple Card. For a limited time, when you get a new Apple card and purchase AirPods Pro 3 at Apple, you can earn back the cost up to 2250 daily cash. New AirPods Pro and up to $250 bonus daily cash back. Now that's music to my ears. Subject to credit approval limitations and spend requirements. Apply. Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch Terms and more at Apple Co AirPods.
- [03:22]
B
This episode of Ridiculous History is brought to you by Grainger.
- [03:26]
A
This is the story of the one
- [03:28]
B
As a maintenance tech at a university, he knows ordering from multiple suppliers takes time away from keep their arena up and running.
- [03:36]
A
That's why he counts on Granger to get everything he needs, from lighting and H vac parts to plumbing supplies all in one place.
- [03:44]
B
And with fast, dependable delivery, he's stocked and ready for the next tip off.
- [03:49]
A
Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger
- [03:55]
B
for the ones who get it done.
- [03:57]
E
This is Jana Kramer from Wind down with Jana Kramer so why do they call it a dishwasher? Well, don't worry, it's not a trick question or anything. It's just because it washes dishes. If the filter and the dishwasher itself are dirty, those dishes aren't actually getting clean. That's why you need Cascade Platinum Plus. Powered by two times the cleaning power of Dawn, Cascade Platinum plus doesn't just remove 100 of grease and residue from dishes, it cleans your dishwasher and filter too. So you get clean dishes and a dishwasher that keeps washing. Just scrape, load and done. Find Cascade Platinum plus at your local retailer. Cascade is a proud sponsor of the Elton John Impact Awards, honoring those who have helped shape a more inclusive and compassionate world with their artistry, advocacy and unwavering commitment to equality. Cascade would like to take this opportunity to congratulate all of this year's deserving honorees. Don't miss the Elton John Impact Awards podcast, available on June 1st on the iHeartRadio app and everywhere podcasts are heard,
- [04:53]
B
I turned off news altogether.
- [04:56]
A
I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.
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B
It's the rage bait.
- [05:03]
E
Feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [05:07]
A
We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little.
- [05:12]
F
NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.
- [05:22]
C
Eczema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with epglis, a once monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial four month or longer dosing phase, about four in 10 people taking ECLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year. With monthly dosing.
- [05:42]
G
HempGlass Lebricizumab LBKZ, a 250mg injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled. With prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with ebglis. Before starting ebglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.
- [06:16]
C
Ask your doctor about ebglis and visit eglis.lilly.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.
- [06:27]
B
Hot dogs do to your point, Ben, and you can't hold a thing like that in your hand, not wonder about the storied lineage of such a delicious and hand holdable snack. And most historians do trace their origins to German sausages. But the idea of the sausage of making a cylindrical meat product goes further back than that. Goes back in fact to sausages before the hot dog. The hot dog's ancestor is of course, the humble sausage. And a lot of records, historical records reference a sausage like food that first appeared in ancient civilizations, including the Greeks and the Romans. It was achieved this shape that you've mentioned, Ben, by stuffing minced meat, meats of various origins into animal intestines. That's the casing, the snappy bit on the outside. And nobody likes to think of that. I don't, I don't really care. I think we, you and I are both. We'll eat a. We'll eat a gut from time to time. Yeah, I like a little tripe in my pho. And you know, this was a way of creating a longer shelf life for the meat in question by stuffing it inside this kind of edible pouch.
- [07:49]
A
Yeah, because think about it, folks. You've got the animal that you've already slaughtered, right? Your sheep, your goat, your pig, your cow, et cetera. And you have the food that is prized, right? The protein you would eat. But then you're thinking, how do I get all this back in one place? And so it makes sense, Noel, that you would have the intestines and look at them and say, oh, I can, MacGyver. A perfect package here.
- [08:21]
B
A perfect package indeed, Ben. No, you nailed it. And actually, if you're looking for some other sausage related episodes of ridiculous history, we got two that come to mind. One, Richard Blaze. Richard Blaze for sure. That was more bacon oriented. Well, no, it wasn't a bacon versus sausage. That's true in his episode of Food Court that you and I did. But we also did an episode pretty early in the history of this show about Botox, the botulinum toxin that was derived from spoiled sausages. And also about sausage intestine type casings used to create early zeppelins. Yeah, you can find both of those in the feed. But we are talking specifically about that aha moment that usually comes along with an oopsie of some sort, right? Yeah, yeah, the aha, oopsie. And in this case, it happened at the behest of the Roman emperor Nero, whose chef goes by the name of Gaius, may have accidentally stumbled upon the method of creating a casing out of animal guts. This is, you know, a legendary myth kind of thing. But Gaius was, you know, overseeing his kitchen, was preparing these roasted pigs for some sort of, you know, presumably debauched bacchanalia.
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A
And they were supposed to be starved for a whole week before they're killed. Right, That's. I didn't know this.
- [09:50]
B
No, I didn't know that either, Ben. And that. That is, I guess, a way of. I guess is that sort of like a veal? It makes the meat more delicate or something. I don't know.
- [09:59]
A
It's barbaric. But we've all eaten chitlins before. Maybe it's a matter of hygiene or.
- [10:06]
B
Could well be Ben. But as the legend goes, Gaius was overseeing his kitchen. And by the way, fabulous article from history.com, the extra long history of the hot dog that I'm pulling some of this information from. Very clever. We love our writers over at History. Stephanie Butler wrote this one. From ancient Roman sausage to Nathan's Coney island hot dog. The history of tubular meat may stretch back millennia, she writes. So Gaius was overseeing the preparation starved animals. And one of them, it would seem, was roasted without being cleaned. So in other words, all of the offal and the stuff that, you know, inside the cavity had not been pulled out, as customarily would be the case before roasting them. And when he popped the thing open, out spilled a cornucopia of gutty parts.
- [11:02]
A
Yeah. And this Gaius, we could only imagine, encounters something like when you open a package that's been delivered and you see all the little puffs of air. Right, the plastic air puffing or the Styrofoam or what have you. He sees all this packaging, essentially. And because the intestines are empty as the pig had been starved for a week, and because they are puffed up from the heat, they clearly look like containers. And he has this light bulb moment, way before light bulbs are invented, where he apocryphally exclaims, I have discovered something of great importance. And so he. He's got a bunch of, like, wheat and spices, right? Because he's top dog Chef. And so he. I'm laughing because he literally stuffs the intestines with this minced meat and these spices and this wheat as filler.
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B
Is it twisted or genius or geniusly twisted?
- [12:10]
A
I think it's both, man.
- [12:11]
B
I think it really is. I mean, it's the kind of story we always hear when it comes to, like, the first person that figured out how to eat the snotty insides of a crustacean and then found it to be delectable. Or the mushrooms that, you know, killed you or made you see crazy stuff until you found the one that just tasted nice.
- [12:29]
A
Right, Right. And we do know, thanks to hotdog.org hot-dog love that that exists as we
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B
do with these very specific orgs.
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A
I love the Internet, man. What we learned from our friends over@hot-dog.org is that sausage is indeed one of the oldest forms of processed food. It's even mentioned in the Odyssey by Homer, not Honda, dating back to 9th century BCE.
- [13:01]
B
Ben, have you heard a lot of this kerfuffle that's being made about the Christopher Nolan Odyssey that's coming out?
- [13:07]
A
Oh, dude, I was just reading about some of that. People seem to be skeptical. I think there was a trailer release, but I'm a sucker for a good piece of mythology.
- [13:19]
B
Yeah, I love a sword and sandals kind of thing. But I think the issue is that Nolan is pretty infamous for being a stickler for details, for historical details, and he has said as much about this project in his press runs. But it's my understanding is not anyone of note that is of Greek lineage that has been cast in the film. And also there's some questions about the type of bronze, whether they could have bronze that was made to appear jet black, whether that was a process that was even popular at the time. So there's some people that are getting a little up in arms about it, but it is true. And you gotta wonder, are sausages featured in Christopher Nolan's Odyssey?
- [14:02]
A
Tbd. Yeah. Spoiler. Folks, we suspect that's the main plot One would hope. We've actually read the Odyssey.
- [14:12]
B
It's actually a sequel to Seth Rogen's Sausage Party.
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A
Absolutely. Yeah.
- [14:18]
B
So, but speaking of spoilers, the whole idea here and this idea of it being a processed food is to again, extend the shelf life. But this early version, it was really just kind of creating sort of an airtight package. Like you said. It wasn't until later that more preservatives would be used and that it truly would be a much more processed food as we know those today. Nitrates and things like that. Right?
- [14:42]
A
Yeah. Max, give us some sweeping civilization esque music to portray the passing of time.
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B
Is that how it goes? Is that civ music?
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A
No, you nailed it. We're mind melding.
- [14:58]
B
So civ music, at least according to
- [15:00]
A
Civ 6, it's actually what it does
- [15:01]
B
is it combines music of all the different civilizations you have met in the game. Oh, oh, and that reminds me, Max, really quickly, just. I know this isn't exactly on topic, but jumping back to Christopher Nolan's the Odyssey, another thing that he said, and it sort of contradicts a lot of his other choices, is that they didn't have orchestras back then. So he wanted the score to be entirely. He wanted the score to be entirely orchestra free. So Ludwig van Gorensen, who I think we both love for his production work with Childish Gambino, and also he's just really become kind of the IT composer in Hollywood, he apparently made the entire score using only gongs, various sizes of gongs. But then he just kind of slipped in the fact that he also ran them through modular synthesizers, which definitely didn't
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A
exist either, and hit the gongs with big old wieners.
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B
Big old dingons is what they call them.
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A
Yeah, because we're adults, we can vote. So, Max, thank you again for that song.
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B
We squandered that sweeping time change music. But here we are.
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A
Over time, centuries and centuries happen. Empires rise and fall, fall. But food remains a constant. Right. Because it's a universal need of people. So different regions of Europe are figuring out what D. Rochef apparently called later. We suspect Noel. And I suspect this was a lot of parallel thinking. As you always like to say, Noel. But you gotta face it, we go to Germany fairly often. Noel goes more often than I do. But Germany's very famous for sausages. Like if you walk into a German butcher shop, I'm confused by how many types of sausage exist.
- [16:54]
B
Well, the word wiener is derived from the region of Germany called Vienna or Wien, and that is where the term wiener comes from. Another, you know, interchangeable, at least the way it's come to be. Today, Frankfurter comes from another city in Germany called Frankfurt, and they claim that their sausage tradition dates as far back as the Middle Ages. There are some local historians that trace Frankfurter's back to the 13th century. But Vienna also claims to have had a significant hand in the creation of the sausage made from a mixture of pork and beef that resembled. Resembles much more closely than what Gaius was up to. The modern hot dog. And even the term hot dog, as we'll get to its origin, is a German dog, the dachshund. So Frankfurt, as it's known in Germany am Main, the main being a river, is traditionally credited with originating the Frankfurter. But the claim is disputed by a lot of folks that do seem to believe that the sausage known as the dachshund, that means the little dog sausage, was created in the 1600s by a guy named Johann Jorgener, who was a butcher who lived in Coburg. Ben didn't. Coburg? No, no, That's Chernoberg we were talking about in France, and I believe that's in Saxony. We were talking about D Day the other day. So I'm interchanging these things. Coburg is in Germany, and according to a report cited by hot-dog.org, he later traveled to Frankfurt in order to promote his product that he had, in fact, already created in Cober. But you know what, man? A lot of these, like, origin stories, it's less about where someone was geographically when they made the thing and more about where it took off.
- [18:54]
A
Yeah. And where humans began telling the story to each other. There are some phenomenal authors who wrestle with these same questions. One of my favorites is a guy named Mark Kurlansky, who wrote a book entirely about salt, and it's called In a burst of Creativity. Can you guess?
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B
Salt.
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A
You nailed it.
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B
The book, the ride, the movie.
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A
It's a page turner. I can't believe I'm saying it. It's a noveling thing about salt.
- [19:28]
B
Well, salt is. That is civilization, though, right? There's so much. And you could argue the same thing about hot dogs and be a colleague of ours, Jamie Loftus, who does incredible podcast stuff and other things like Stand up, and she's a playwright and just. And an author, wrote an entire book about hot dogs.
- [19:48]
A
She did. Yes. And we have read it, and it's pretty awesome, to be honest. We're not blowing rainbows, we're not blowing sausage links, but we visceral, Ben. It's a Little too evocative. But we can tell you that based on the work of folks like Kurlansky and hot-dog.org and Loftus, we understand that the history of food, especially when you get really far back, usually doesn't have a lot of paperwork. It's not very well documented. Like, who's the first person who figured out to put salt on something? You know what I mean? Or to your point about mushrooms as well. No, we generally will see that the modern Hebrew national that you might buy in a grocery store today comes from Central European sausage. Traditions that are parallel thinking. Multiple folks figured this out. There's not one hot dog messiah.
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B
Oh, but I love the concept of a hot dog messiah. It's not the messiah that we wanted, but it's the one that we deserve.
- [21:02]
A
Can you please change this water into wine? No, but how do you feel about the hot links?
- [21:08]
B
Hot dog water.
- [21:09]
A
Hot dog water.
- [21:10]
B
I'll take your water and I'll put some awesome dogs in it. And magically it transmutes into hot dog water. Ben, so much noise out there about hair loss. Ten in one, shampoos, random little bits of advice, expensive clinic visits. But you know what, man? I think for us, HIMS cuts through all of it with real trusted treatments and a 100% online process.
- [21:35]
A
Yeah. Hims offers convenient access to a range of prescription hair loss treatments with ingredients that actually work. You know, chews, oral medications, serums, sprays, you name it.
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B
Yeah, and you shouldn't have to go out of your way to feel like yourself again. HIMSS brings expert care straight to you with 100% online access to personalized treatment plans that put your goals first. For simple online access to personal and affordable care for hair loss, ED, weight loss, and more, visit hims.comhistory that's himss.comhistory
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A
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- [22:29]
H
This is George Severis and Sam Taggart from Stradiolab. Okay.
- [22:32]
B
Okay.
- [22:32]
H
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H
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I
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- [23:31]
H
You won't want to miss the Elton John Impact awards podcast, available June 1 on the iHeartRadio app and everywhere podcasts
- [23:38]
B
are heard, I turned off news altogether.
- [23:42]
A
I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.
- [23:46]
B
It's the rage bait.
- [23:49]
E
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [23:53]
A
We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little.
- [23:59]
F
NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.
- [24:09]
J
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- [24:41]
K
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- [25:16]
B
The idea of sausage links, too, is interesting because if you really see traditional the way sausages are made, I love the concept too, of how the sausages made, the implication being something gross that you don't want to know about. You take the casings and you stuff them and Then you twist them and that's how you get all these like bangers that are like joined together and you can like toss them over your shoulder. Great way to make them even more portable.
- [25:41]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I've never bought or I've never purchased one of those chain links of sausages or hot dogs when I. When you don't see them as often that much anymore.
- [25:56]
B
Not in the States unless you go to a cool ass butcher. Like we're so lucky to have spotted trotter in Germany though. You can go to any corner butcher and they will have like a little glass dome with like sausage linked up, kind of more dry, you know, meant to be eaten on the go as a snack. And you can buy like four or five of them linked together for nothing. And they're so good, man, they really do know how to do sausages there in Germany.
- [26:25]
A
Yeah. And thankfully a lot of German nationals immigrated to the United States. This is part of the story of the hot dog. Right, because.
- [26:36]
B
And that's why it's the story of immigration, it's the story of this country. Like so many food products and the tracking, the lineage of them is in and of itself a story of the movement of people.
- [26:49]
A
Yeah. Now as we said earlier, the frankfurter was. Is commonly thought to be developed In Frankfurt in 1487, as you said, Noel. So it way predates the United States. We had our hilarious conversation about the term wiener. I am an adult, I can vote. It looks like the North American hot dog, the kind of Hebrew national elite today comes from this European sausage that was brought here by butchers and various immigrants from throughout Europe.
- [27:28]
B
Yeah, the North American as we know it, the indigenous North American hot dog comes from this European sausage that we've been talking about, brought here by those folks that you mentioned. However, a big question remains. We know where the sausage came from, but where did the bun come from? And who came up with the idea of sticking them together? As you can imagine, we do have some alternate theories as to how that went down.
- [27:59]
A
Yeah. Think about it this way, folks. You got German immigrants, butchers, salespeople. They're going to urban centers like New York City, Chicago, St. Louis, Cincinnati, and they're selling street food, basically. And, and before we get to the bun, we've got to mention the Colombian Exposition of 1893. This is where a bunch of people get together in Chicago. It's a big to do. If you ever get the chance to go to a world's fair or an exposition, please do visit. There are thousands of Folks who are discovering new kinds of food and they're seeing all these hot dogs, these sausages. This is where you do a lovely bit in the research. And you point out there is a hot dog historian named Bruce Craig, a PhD historian in Hot dogs at Roosevelt University. And he says, look, the German manner was to always eat these dachshund or little dog sausages with bread.
- [29:08]
B
Yeah. As is the case today. I mean, if you go to Germany, you're not going to typically see a
- [29:15]
A
traditional hot dog bun.
- [29:17]
B
No, it's going to be which are like these little breads and that you could cut it and then stick the dog inside or literally just put the dog on top and you put the mustard on the dog, but it's not really a bun. And Germans are, they love their bread. They're very particular, very particular about their bread, as of course the French are as well. So the question then becomes like, you know, sure, the Germans were probably eating their sausages with bread since time immemorial or since the sausages were around. But that's not necessarily the same thing as the elongated split traditional Americanized hot dog button that we see at baseball games.
- [30:02]
A
Yeah, for that we have to go to an historical debate. So a lot of hot dog boffins are going to say, hey, there's a story that isn't true. This is the story that historians hate. The story goes, or the legend we could call it, is that in 1904 there was a Bavarian street vendor, we could call him, named Anton Feutswanger, and he was at the St. Louis Louisiana Purchase Exposition. So apparently again, according to the legend, he is selling these very high hot fresh baked sausages and he gives his customers these cheap white gloves so that they don't burn their hands while they're feeling. Yeah, they don't burn their fingies. And he realizes, hey, I can't trust all these strangers. I'm giving these people these gloves as a loan, but they're not giving them back, they're just walking away.
- [31:11]
B
You don't give away a thing expecting to get it back unless you take a deposit. I mean, I'm sorry, this thing's screwed. Dreams of apocryphal 100%.
- [31:20]
A
And so he goes to his brother in law, a guy who's a baker, and he says, hey man, can you bake gloves?
- [31:29]
B
Help me out, I'm out of white gloves.
- [31:31]
A
Right. And so the baker looks at the sausage, looks at his brother in law, loves the guy and doesn't want him to fail. And we can only Imagine he had some leftover material. That's where, according to this kind of malarkey story, we find the long, soft rolls that seem custom tailored to fit the hot dog.
- [31:57]
B
Yeah. Sadly, though, there is still that discrepancy of hot dogs coming in a certain number and buns coming in. Yeah. I'll never forget that scene from Father of the Bride with Steve Martin where he freaks out and rips the package open and takes only the number of buns that he wants. And the guy's like, you can't do that. He's, I'm making a stand. I can relate, man, but you gotta. You know, these people don't get paid enough to deal with your craziness in the grocery store.
- [32:25]
A
Steve Martin, right, Exactly. Steve, who is. By the way, did you know Steve Martin is one of the best banjo players on the planet?
- [32:33]
B
He knows how to pluck at a banjo.
- [32:36]
A
I was surprised.
- [32:38]
B
He's been playing for a very long time. He incorporated into a lot of his early standup, and he really, truly is. I think they're called, like the. The Steep Canyon Rangers, I believe, is the name of this group. And it's not a comedy group. It is just an absolute top notch bluegrass outfit. Yeah.
- [32:53]
A
You go into Steve Martin experience and you think, I'm gonna see some amazing standup. And then partway through you go, oh, this guy is just actually amazing at the banjo.
- [33:04]
B
This guy can shred.
- [33:05]
A
This guy shreds. What we do know here is that sausages were phenomenal, phenomenal in the American sphere. There was a great appetite for it. So by the late 1800s, you can already see a sausage, something that doesn't quite look like your hot dog today in a long roll. And it's being served and sold in multiple US Cities, especially on the east coast, which I think gives us a clue about immigration and innovation.
- [33:40]
B
Yeah. And it also gives us a clue about that historical game of telephone that you're always talking about. Ben. There's another hot dog apocryphal hot dog story, origin story that historians kind of turn their noses up at. Some believe that the term was coined in 1901 at an event that took place on the New York Polo Grounds on a frigid April day where vendors were selling the dogs that were being kept warm in hot water tanks and shouting out their slogans. Something along the lines of, get them while they're hot. Get your dachshund sausages while they're red hot. And red hots is another name for a type of sausage. And apparently, as the story goes, a cartoonist named Ted Dorgan from the New York Journal saw the kerfuffle, the delicious kerfuffle, and decided he'd draw a little cartoon to commemorate this historical moment wherein he kind of anthropomorphized the hot dogs and made them into little barking dachshund sausages hanging out in these little buns. He didn't know how to spell the word, as the story goes, so he wrote hot dog instead of dachshund, instead of dachshund. And apparently, you know, again, as the tale goes, the cartoon was a big hit, and the term hot dog took off from there. But this particular cartoon seems to be lost to history, if it ever existed in the first place. Yeah, there's definitely a huge body of work by this particular cartoonist, but this does not seem to be among it. So, yeah, the historians seem to believe that that one's another one that's kind of been largely exaggerated, if not entirely trumped up.
- [35:25]
A
I love it, though, especially because we skipped a bit of lunch today to record. So I'm super into hot dog history. We're gonna make some hot dogs here in the home studio after this. This one thing I love that you found here is that the easiest way to figure out when something becomes a thing is to look back into printed material. This is why Craig and other culinary historians. Hot dog boffins. This is why they spent so much time digging through history for the first print instance of the phrase hot dog. They see it again in the late 19th century, in the 1890s. It was used at Yale in 1894, specifically referring to something called dog wagons,
- [36:25]
B
which sold think of like a proto food truck or like a ice cream. You know, what do you call it? Like a little push cart. But instead of selling, you know, cold treats, you're selling hot dogs. And this was something that would go around to the different dormitories, and the name kind of became a bit of a regional inn joke.
- [36:43]
A
Not a compliment.
- [36:44]
B
Not a compliment. Again, how the sausage was made there, it did become a question as to whether or not, you know, these kind of mystery meats contained some things that maybe would not be particularly culturally appropriate to eat.
- [37:02]
A
Yeah. And do check out our earlier episode on the amazing growth of Chinese restaurants in the United States and the racism those folks had to overcome. So we know hot dog was definitely derived from some perspective about German immigration. It was also definitely not a compliment all the time. But there is one reason, beside convenience, that made the hot dog an American staple, dare we say an icon up there with apple pie.
- [37:41]
B
This one, peanuts and Cracker Jacks.
- [37:42]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And seventh inning stretches. This one is for our own Max Williams. The hot dog owes its success to baseball.
- [37:57]
L
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- [38:26]
H
This is George Taveras and Sam Taggart from Stratiolab. Okay, picture your apartment after a Saturday workout. The gym bag, the couch, maybe even the car. Mi amor. It's a full novella of odors, and not the glamorous kind.
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Febreze is a proud sponsor of the Elton John Impact Awards, honoring those who have helped shape a more inclusive and compassionate world with their artistry, advocacy, and unwavering commitment to equality.
- [39:29]
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You won't want to miss the Elton John Impact awards podcast, available June 1 on the iHeartRadio app. And everywhere podcasts are heard.
- [39:37]
B
I turned off news altogether.
- [39:40]
A
I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.
- [39:44]
B
It's the rage bait.
- [39:46]
E
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [39:51]
A
We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little.
- [39:56]
F
NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.
- [40:06]
J
If you're feeling off fatigue, mood changes, skin shifts, yet your labs say everything's normal, you're not alone. Meet Oestra from Inner Balance, the first all in One prescription strength bioidentical hormone cream that's natural and effective and only takes one drop 10 seconds of a day. Oestro replaces five to six products women typically use to treat symptoms and is third party tested to ensure the highest quality. Visit innerbalance.com today to start feeling like yourself again.
- [40:36]
K
That's innerbalance.com these days it seems like AI agents are just about everywhere you turn, every field and every function. But without identity, you can't trust they'll serve your business instead of jeopardizing it. Fortunately, Okta helps you get identity right by securing your AI agents identify identities, giving you a single layer of control, a single standard of trust. So whether an AI agent supports a single user or your entire enterprise, with Okta you'll turn risk into opportunity. Secure every agent, secure any agent. Okta secures AI.
- [41:13]
B
Yeah. As baseball became America's pastime, the hot dog became inextricably linked with the sport and the spectacle. There you go. Of, you know, a attending the old ball game. So Smithsonian Mag has a delightful piece by Donald Dale Jackson called Hot Dogs are Us. It's no stretch to say they're more American than, as you said, Ben, apple pie because they link us together. Everyone's gonna be making that joke. It's impossible to. I didn't even do it on purpose. It just happens. It happens. And he had this to say. They were Americanized through their association with public events. According to a person who spoke to the author for this piece named br, people ate them at baseball games, horse races, fairs and circuses. Today, America is hot dog hq with rival styles, regional specificities in terms of what doth a hot dog make from places like New York and Chicago? There's even a Seattle dog we'll get to in a little bit. And it is a bit of a source of some good natured beef. Haha. Gosh, you just walk right into all of them. New Yorkers would say that Chicago dogs are way overkill. Unga Pachka. As my buddy Wigs would say on the Doughboys podcast, putting a hat on a hat in Chicago. They would say they put an entire salad over the dog because they're embarrassed at the way it tastes. I love a Chicago dog. And you know who else loves a Chicago dog?
- [42:47]
A
People from Chicago.
- [42:49]
B
People from Chicago. But Anthony, Anthony Bourdain.
- [42:51]
A
Oh yeah, yeah.
- [42:52]
B
He was a real evangelist for the Chicago dog. And I will die on that hill. I think it is the superior dog. It is true. It is true. Don't necessarily like the full pickle Spear on it. But everything else is good on me. And we'll get to some of these
- [43:07]
A
different versions of the weird rules about condiments, I hope.
- [43:10]
B
Uh huh. Oh, definitely. Yeah. No ketchup allowed on a Chicago dog. Let's see. But a guide to Chicago Fast Food Badmouths the New York dogs from Smithsonian. Again, referring to it as. This is tough, guys, but I'm gonna get through it. A little limp wiener, drowning in gloppy stewed onions and sauerkraut.
- [43:32]
A
What a jerk.
- [43:34]
B
It's a little fair. I don't know, man. Some of those street hot dogs in New York are not great.
- [43:38]
A
Well, what are you expecting? It's like, it's. How much could a banana cost, Michael?
- [43:43]
B
That's a very good question, Ben. But I will say there are other forms of street meat that are superior, like, you know. Absolutely. A little bit of chicken and rice. You with whites.
- [43:53]
A
I love a halal bowl. Yeah.
- [43:56]
B
It just seems like some of the hot dog vendors are phoning in it a little bit.
- [43:58]
A
Yeah, I hear you. I hear you, Ed. In some cases, I'll say it, they're clearly laundering money. But I was like, it's like the pizza places.
- [44:10]
B
It is the pizza places. And Ben, you'll be thrilled to know, and Max as well, that Pizza Hut is bringing back the cloud. Classic Pizza Hut experience of our youth. And one of them is going to be in Blue Ridge, which is not too far.
- [44:25]
A
We have to go.
- [44:26]
B
Yeah, we are. I want to go.
- [44:27]
A
We have to go together.
- [44:28]
B
I really want to go. And it's, it's such a good excuse to go for a lovely little, you know, day in the mountains and a classic Pizza Hut pizza party.
- [44:36]
A
Oh my gosh.
- [44:37]
B
We could eat those red cups, those red plastic cups and the stained glass little table overhangs. Yeah.
- [44:44]
A
We could play a pickup game of basketball with kids or demolish a Little League team. Go back to celebrate. That's awesome. That's great news. And that's quintessentially American. We should do a history of Pizza Hut one day. But we know that the hot dog now is. If you're not from the States, you are familiar with the American modern version of the hot dog because you see it in countless TV shows and countless, gosh, even reality TV or films. They're associated with picnics and cookouts and definitely baseball games. We know that they've even become a tool of diplomacy because back when we had FDR as a president in 1939, he made international headlines because George II, 6, the guy from Britain from earlier, the king visited the US and the White House chef was like, hey, President Roosevelt, what should we serve this visiting royalty? And without missing a beat, all FDR said, give him hot dogs.
- [46:00]
B
Give him hot dogs. Yep, that's true. It's like Trump would probably make it Big Macs. You know, at this point, he was kind of trying to spread the word. Sort of the way that, remember in the potato episode, they were serving potatoes to foreign dignitaries and using potatoes as the main ingredient in a lot of state dinners. And it was a way of spreading the word of the potato. Yeah.
- [46:28]
A
And some of the more highfalutin, like the Boston Brahmins or the blue blood New Yorkers in the crowd, some of them said that Roosevelt was screwing up because he was serving street food to the literal King of the United Kingdom. But word on the street changed once the public learned King George had a hot dog.
- [46:56]
B
Politely, pardon me, sir, may I have another?
- [46:59]
A
And then he had a second hot dog. He was housing these dogs.
- [47:03]
B
He was housing those dogs, man. Just shoveling them down. And, you know, it's. It's just. It's kind of the everyman food.
- [47:11]
A
Yeah. Enjoyed by walking while you're eating it. You can hold it with one hand, you know, you got your other hand for your soda or whatever.
- [47:20]
B
But don't suck it out of your sleeve because it'll get lodged in your throat and then you need a special vacuum cleaner to suck it out.
- [47:26]
A
Can't skip lunch. I'm getting so hungry thinking about this. We do have to mention, of course, Noel, as you point out here, we do have to mention a titular milestone, watershed moment in the history of the hot dog that is Nathan's famous and Coney island, right.
- [47:47]
B
In 1916, Nathan Handwerker opened, what you just mentioned, his first hot dog stand. He sold hot dogs at a bargain price that he was able to undercut all his competitors, helping further establish them as a kind of universal food of the people. His stand began to amass acclaim far and wide and really helped popularize the hot dog outside of just the boroughs of New York. Not to mention, of course, Nathan's famous hot dog eating contest that later turned the hot dog into a symbol of this bizarre, to me, anyway, sport as well as American popular culture. And the hot dog eating contest happens at Coney island every year is still, you know, hugely popular.
- [48:37]
A
Absolutely. And I went down a huge rabbit hole about this for several years before we even started. Ridiculous history. It's. It's such a bizarre and thoroughly American pastime. I'm not sure if we could call it a sport, but competitive eating does have all the ingredients of a sport of.
- [49:01]
B
Well, and also these people that are the best at it aren't like big, you know, gluttonous.
- [49:06]
A
Talking Kobayashi, you're talking. I'm talking Kobayashi.
- [49:09]
B
Yep, for sure. It really did. The hot dog eating sport took on a bit more kind of cachet or gravitas when Takeru Kobayashi won the Nathan's contest in 2001, eating 50 hot dogs in only 12 minutes, roughly doubling the previous winning totals. You might have heard of some of these techniques. This is not, again, just gluttonous stuff. There's strategy here. Some of his techniques that he more or less invented, I guess separating the dogs and the buns and soaking. It's not appetizing, by the way. Soaking the buns in water. It really did give this event much more of a sense of competitive edge and skill rather than being a little bit more like, who? Who is the fattest fat boy on the block?
- [50:03]
A
Right, right. Who's the biggest piggy? It's not that. There is something.
- [50:09]
B
It's on ESPN at this point. Right. It's crazy.
- [50:12]
A
I have to mention this as a student of the game during Kobayashi's halcyon years, during the height of his fame, he was studied by doctors who found this is the scuttleback butt. They found that he had a mutation of sorts. His stomach was not constrained by his rib cage so it could extend under it, providing more area of absorption. At least that's the legend. There are a bunch of legends about competitive eating. Shout out to Sonia the black Widow Thomas. Shout out to, of course, Joey Chestnut, which already sounds like a made up name.
- [50:59]
B
It really does. These folks must have had like the metabolisms of hummingbirds. In 2007, Joey Chestnut dethroned Kobayashi and began, you know, absolutely dominating in. It's referred to in some of the sources I'm reading as the most dominant runs in sports, period. He won. He really is. He won the contest numerous times and set a record of 76 hot dogs and buns in 10 minutes in 20 not too terribly long ago. His rivalry with Kobayashi is really a big, you know, again, sports beef that gave competitive eating much more of a mainstream quality.
- [51:40]
A
And you can watch it with us live very soon, next month, less than a month away. I'm getting too excited about it.
- [51:48]
B
It's fun.
- [51:48]
A
Every July 4th we have the hot dog contest.
- [51:52]
B
I've never watched it. I'm really glad that you mentioned that, Ben. I'm sure it Is. But I'm at least more morbidly curious.
- [51:59]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you will scratch that itch, Noel, because it's when they go to town. They certainly go to town. I want to go back to one of those stats you mentioned. I cannot imagine eating 76 hot dogs in a series, no matter how much time I have.
- [52:21]
B
No.
- [52:22]
A
10 minutes.
- [52:23]
B
Four is too much. Four. Four is too many.
- [52:26]
A
Four is too many.
- [52:26]
B
I will say, though, hot dogs, two is. They should come. I do. Like, if I'm eating them at home, I'll always make two.
- [52:33]
A
Always make two. Yeah.
- [52:34]
B
Remember that scene in Weapons where they have, like, 10? Like, it was something I started reading about when that movie came out. People were talking about, like, what's up with the hot dog scene? And apparently it's a reference to a Whitest Kids, you know, sketch, which Zach Kreger was a member of that crew. We have teased multiple times some of the distinctive regional spins on the hot dog. So I think we wrap with a few of those for you to try. I mentioned I've already come down on the side of the way they do it in Chicago with mustard relish. And it's kind of a weird green, like, you know, almost ungodly neon green colored relish, onion, tomato, pickle, spear, take it or leave it spear, sports peppers. That's what does it for me. And celery salt. I really love that. And traditionally, on the Chicago dog, ketchup is a no, no. You'll even hear Obama talking about that. He absolutely abhors ketchup. And that is a very Chicago perspective.
- [53:35]
A
Yeah. I don't know what ketchup did to Chicago, but they're still very pissed about it. Also the tomato, take it or leave it.
- [53:44]
B
I agree. To me, the real winner are the sports peppers and the celery salt and the onions and the mustard and the relish.
- [53:52]
A
I'm not opposed to the mustard. We also have to know, going back to the Chicago New York City rivalry, we also have to know that the New York style dog is gonna be a bit simpler in formation.
- [54:06]
B
For sure it is. It is a much more cut and dry, straightforward dog, typically served with brown mustard, sauerkraut, and kind of an onion sauce. Yeah, it's sort of sauteed, caramelized onions sometimes. Almost has a little bit of a barbecue quality to it.
- [54:23]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's.
- [54:25]
B
There's certainly different spins on it. On the onion sauce. You can do that a lot.
- [54:28]
A
Some of it will be fresh chopped and others will be clearly just sort of out of the container.
- [54:36]
B
Which is funny though, because their New York kind of has two styles of dog. The other being of course, the Coney dog, referring to Coney Island. And this one usually has chili with mustard on top and onions. And though it is kind of associated with Coney island, even if you get it at Sonic, I think they call it a Coney, it did in fact originate in the Midwest.
- [55:02]
A
And then we have multiple variations of this and a lot of it, folks, is going to be people in the US fighting about toppings. We got to talk about the Dodger Dog. It's branded advertising. It's for the LA Dodgers baseball team they sold in 2011. And no, I think we can assume Max already knows this. In 2011, the Dodgers Stadium sold 2 million hot dogs. And the question immediately became, for everybody involved, what makes this Dodger Dog so unique? What makes.
- [55:46]
B
Well, they're particularly long. The traditional hot dog would be around 6 inches and the dodger dog's more in line with 10. So they are considered the biggest hot dogs on the market. You can get them in a couple different hot dog varietals. The Super Dodger dog, which is 100% beef sausage, while the Doyer dog swaps the traditional toppings for jalapenos, salsa and chili. The then they have a veggie and vegan version. The Italian Dodger Dog with shredded mozzarella and marinara sauce. And the Southwestern Dodger Dog, which has a little bit of sour cream, avocado slices, pico de gallo and other things. And LA does have another pretty famous hot dog place known called Pink's that people, people talk about a lot. And I've never been. The lines are always crazy long. LA is typically known as more of a burger town, but they also do dogs pretty much pretty dang well.
- [56:41]
A
Yeah, most US cities will, will make a good hot dog for you. From Atlanta to Seattle and beyond. Now I had a question for you, Noel, about this Seattle style hot dog. I've never tried this cream cheese.
- [56:58]
B
You know, doesn't immediately pique my, my appetite, but I'd try it. You know, if there was a. If I was in Seattle and there was someone making one, the authentic Seattle Whip, I'd give it a go. Wouldn't be my go to preparation though.
- [57:12]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [57:14]
B
I love cream cheese, but it just feels like it's again, kind of putting
- [57:17]
A
a hat on a hatch. Yeah. And we also. Everybody from New York who's writing the email now, don't worry, we got you. We're well aware of Gray's Papaya. And the papaya dog. We've all been. It's inexpensive. It is considered one of the best hot dogs in the city of New York. So if you get a chance and you find yourself in the Big Apple, if you've got like a loose $3.45, get a papaya dog for sure.
- [57:50]
B
And I guess we can just wrap with kind of hot dogs as they are today. Like many things, the industrial revolution changed hot dogs as well. From a street food to a mass produced product that you could buy in odd numbered packages in the grocery store. The advent of Oscar Mayer and their titular wiener mobile really revolutionized refrigeration and supply chain and distribution, packaging, of course, creating a network that allowed the hot dogs to be sold in supermarkets all over the country. The great democratization of hot dogs, which further made it the people's food. By the mid-1900s, as you've already mentioned, Ben became a staple of backyard barbecues. July 4th celebrations, school lunch lunches, sporting events, of course, and family cookouts.
- [58:44]
A
Yeah. And this becomes a global phenomenon all the way from murky, undetermined legends to the modern day, as we record on Tuesday, June 9, 2026. You go pretty much anywhere in this wide world and you're gonna run into something like a hot dog. And the beautiful thing about it is, is similar to pizza or similar to a hamburger. All these different cultures and countries have adapted the basic idea of the hot dog to their local preference. So you'll have breads you've never heard of, you'll have sauces you've never tasted, you'll have toppings, some of which you will love and some of which will thoroughly confuse you, like Mostardo Mostarda. I was not expecting of a starto reference today.
- [59:40]
B
I mean, I guess you could put it on a hot dog, right? Isn't it like a. Like a. It's like mustard fruit, right? Mustard fruit. No, thank you. Yeah, yeah. It's traditionally one of the weirder condiments that that comes up. We talk about this kind of stuff. So it began as a European tradition, even previous to that, a whoopsie, a culinary whoopsie that led to stuff in animal guts with, you know, seasoned meats, evolved into one of the most recognizable facets of American cuisine, hot dogs and hamburgers. You know, just a simple combination of meat and bread that really does, like, to the earlier point of the stuff tracking the movement of people and culture represents a very rich culinary history, immigration and entrepreneurship, and of course, pop culture.
- [60:27]
A
And people will say the hot dog is as American as apple pie. Not only is that not the case, as we've solved here today, but also apples are from Kazakhstan. Everybody please tune in for our upcoming episode.
- [60:45]
B
And apple pie is Dutch, I think.
- [60:48]
A
Yes, tune in for our episode on an unhinged eccentric named Johnny Appleseed. Noel, thank you so much for for this awesome research brief. I'm a little mad at you because it does have me hungry and starving. But also big thanks to our super producer, Mr. Max Williams.
- [61:10]
B
Max the Coney Boy Williams.
- [61:13]
A
How about Long Dog?
- [61:14]
B
Too Dirty Long Dog Silver.
- [61:17]
A
Long Dog Silver. Long Dog Silver.
- [61:20]
B
No, Only the third time I've gotten that nickname. Oh, wow.
- [61:24]
A
All right, all right.
- [61:26]
B
Humble Brag. Humble Brag. Huge thanks to Jonathan Strickland, the Quizzter, AJ Bahamas Jacobs the Puzzler, Christopher Odis and Eve Jeff Coates here in spirit.
- [61:35]
A
And huge thanks to Kobayashi.
- [61:38]
B
We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite.
- [61:53]
H
This is George Severis and Sam Taggart from Stratiolab. Let's be real. Home comes with a lot of odors. Cooking, pets, everyday life. That's where Febreze comes in.
- [62:02]
I
Febreze helps fight household odors and leaves behind freshness that lasts. And with over 30 cents to choose from, you'll always find one that feels like you.
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H
Febreze. Freshness that fits your life, your space, your style.
- [62:14]
I
Febreze is a proud sponsor of the Elton John Impact Awards, honoring those who have helped shape a more inclusive and compassionate world with their artistry, advocacy and unwavering commitment to equality. Quality.
- [62:24]
H
You won't want to miss the Elton John Impact Awards podcast, available on June 1st on the iHeartRadio app. And everywhere podcasts are heard, Eczema is
- [62:33]
C
unpredictable, but you can flare less with Epglis, a once monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial four month or longer dosing phase, about four in 10 people taking Eblis achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.
- [62:51]
G
Hemplis Lebricizumab LBKZ, a 250mg per 2ml injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Ebglis. Before starting Eglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.
- [63:25]
C
Ask your doctor about ebglis and visit ebgliss.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.
- [63:34]
M
Hey everyone, it's Kel Penn. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast, Irsay, the all Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Every episode I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobooks available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [64:02]
J
If you're feeling off fatigue, mood changes, skin shifts, yet your lab say everything's normal. You're not alone. Meet Oestra from Inner Balance, the first all in one prescription strength bioidentical hormone cream that's natural and effective and only takes one drop, 10 seconds a day. Oester replaces five to six products women typically use to treat symptoms and is third party tested to ensure the highest quality. Visit innerbalance.com today to start feeling like yourself again. That's innerbalance.com this is Jenny Garth from
- [64:35]
N
I Choose Me with Dr. Jenny Garth. History is full of mysteries like how people ever survived before modern laundry detergent. Luckily, Tides here with boosted stain fighting for cleaner, whiter, brighter and fresher laundry versus Tide. Simply no wonder it was America's number one detergent in sales last year. If it's got to be clean, it's got to be Tide. Tide is a proud sponsor of the Elton John Impact Awards, honoring those who have helped shape a more inclusive and compassionate passionate world with their artistry, advocacy and unwavering commitment to equality. You won't want to miss the Elton John Impact Awards podcast, available on June 1st on the iHeartRadio app and everywhere podcasts are heard.
- [65:16]
C
This is an iHeart podcast, guaranteed human.