HP Lovecraft Was A Super Weird Dude, Part Two: The Horror Stories That Changed The World

Summary

Ridiculous History: HP Lovecraft Was A Super Weird Dude, Part Two: The Horror Stories That Changed The World

Release Date: May 22, 2025

In the second installment of their deep dive into the enigmatic life of H.P. Lovecraft, hosts Ben Bolan and Noel Brown, alongside special guest Jonathan Strickland, unravel the complexities and peculiarities that made Lovecraft a seminal figure in horror literature. This episode of Ridiculous History by iHeartPodcasts offers a comprehensive look into Lovecraft's personal struggles, his collaborative spirit with fellow writers, and the enduring legacy of his work.

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Introducing the Panel

• [00:00] Ben Bolan opens the episode by introducing himself, Noel Brown, and their special guest, Jonathan Strickland. The trio sets the stage for an exploration of why H.P. Lovecraft is often regarded as extraordinarily peculiar.

  Ben Bolan: "Why is HP Lovecraft so very weird?"

• [01:35] Noel Brown and Jonathan Strickland engage in a light-hearted exchange, discussing Lovecraftian nicknames and pop culture references, such as the "Sandwich Horror," blending humor with their scholarly discussion.

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Lovecraft’s Collaborative Network

• [05:26] The conversation delves into Lovecraft’s role as the president of the National Amateur Press Association (NAPA), highlighting his efforts to foster a collaborative environment among writers.

  Ben Bolan: "This is what gets him back into writing fiction. If you like Call of Cthulhu Mount's Madness, this is why you like it."

• [07:24] Jonathan Strickland draws parallels between Lovecraft’s collaborative universe and modern interconnected storytelling, such as the Marvel Cinematic Universe, emphasizing the organic nature of Lovecraft’s mythos.

  Jonathan Strickland: "A Lovecraft story is not solely a Lovecraft story. It is the product of this collaborative universe."

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Personal Struggles and Relationships

• [13:57] The hosts shift focus to Lovecraft's personal life, particularly the tragic death of his mother in 1921. This event thrust him into emotional turmoil, yet he persevered by maintaining a “stiff upper lip.”

  Ben Bolan: "He is shattered, and he spends a few weeks in a very dark, emotional place, but eventually he says, stiff upper lip, we must soldier on."

• [16:16] Lovecraft’s marriage to Sonya Haft Green in 1924 is explored, revealing the tension between his personal desires and family expectations.

  Ben Bolan: "He married Sonya Haft Green. There's a bit of acrimony in the Lovecraft household because he does not tell his two aunts who raised him."

• [17:21] The discussion touches on the possible psychological impacts of Lovecraft's fraught relationship with his mother on his choice of partner.

  Ben Bolan: "His fraught relationship with his mother informed his decision to marry, literally, the first other lady who was nice to him."

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Literary Contributions and Mythos Development

• [21:44] Lovecraft’s relocation to a bachelor apartment in Red Hook is examined, highlighting how his environment influenced his writing, particularly his xenophobic and racist themes.

  Ben Bolan: "He has a negative point of view about that. The foreign hordes, the masses of foreigners in the city..."

• [22:27] Jonathan Strickland discusses Lovecraft’s portrayal of non-white characters as antagonists, reflecting his own prejudices and the societal attitudes of his time.

  Jonathan Strickland: "He depicted a lot of black characters as being primitive, barbaric, uncivilized..."

• [25:21] The panel acknowledges Lovecraft's productive period during the 1920s, despite personal hardships, noting his influential works like "The Call of Cthulhu" and "At the Mountains of Madness."

  Ben Bolan: "He's writing these stories that will go on to cement his legacy..."

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Mental Health and Personal Habits

• [38:50] Bolan speculates on Lovecraft's possible obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), linking it to his rigid prejudices and peculiar habits, such as his documented disdain for seafood.

  Ben Bolan: "One of his mental issues may have been obsessive compulsive disorder... He hated seafood."

• [43:09] The hosts recount an anecdote revealing Lovecraft’s rare use of profanity, juxtaposed with his casual use of racial slurs, highlighting the complexity of his character.

  Ben Bolan: "Got this... Lovecraft said, 'while you are eating that God damn stuff, I'll go across the street for a sandwich.'"

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Legacy and Ongoing Influence

• [36:00] The conversation shifts to Lovecraft’s enduring impact on modern fiction, particularly through authors like Matt Ruff, who navigate and critique Lovecraft's problematic viewpoints while expanding the mythos.

  Ben Bolan: "We have to recognize this paradox... your professional life goes well, but your personal life tanks."

• [37:31] The panel debates the notion that the interconnected nature of Lovecraft’s mythos creates barriers for new readers, akin to the complexities found in contemporary media franchises.

  Jonathan Strickland: "The longer you go with this interconnected mythos, the more is required of the consumer..."

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Interactive Quiz Segment: Quizzter

• [53:17] In a playful segment, Jonathan Strickland introduces a "Quizzter" game, presenting three scenarios related to Lovecraft and his contemporaries. The hosts are tasked with identifying the fabricated scenario.

  Jonathan Strickland: "Here are your three scenarios... determine which of the three is the one that I made up."

• [58:03] The hosts debate and ultimately identify the fictional scenario, awarding themselves the correct answers and adding a humorous close to the segment.

  Ben Bolan: "We’re going with number two as the fake story."

  Jonathan Strickland: "Scenario two is a fiction. There was no story called the Tomb of the Witch."

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with reflections on Lovecraft's tumultuous final years, his struggle with health issues, and his eventual death due to cancer. Ben, Noel, and Jonathan acknowledge the duality of Lovecraft’s legacy—his profound influence on horror literature juxtaposed with his deeply problematic personal beliefs.

Ben Bolan: "I think we could add a little bit of armchair psychology here... Lovecraft was trying to find that balance and often without success."

By intertwining humor, scholarly analysis, and personal anecdotes, Ridiculous History delivers an engaging and multifaceted portrait of one of horror's most intriguing figures, offering listeners both insight and entertainment.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• [07:24] Ben Bolan: "If you are someone who just likes reading scary stories and you have an idea for a scary story that you want to set in the universe Stephen King has created...you have to be careful."

• [17:38] Jonathan Strickland: "He could be that the characterization of CJ, at least some elements of his personality are drawn from H.P. Lovecraft."

• [22:27] Jonathan Strickland: "Lovecraft depicted a lot of black characters as being primitive, barbaric, uncivilized..."

• [38:50] Ben Bolan: "Death of the Author is something we can’t easily apply here because those views inform much of his work."

• [43:09] Ben Bolan: "Lovecraft said, 'while you are eating that God damn stuff, I'll go across the street for a sandwich.'"

---

This episode offers a nuanced examination of H.P. Lovecraft, balancing his literary genius with the darker aspects of his personality and beliefs. Whether you're a seasoned Lovecraft enthusiast or new to his work, Ridiculous History provides valuable perspectives on the man behind the myth.

Transcript

[Ben Bolan]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you as always, so much for tuning in. Let's hear a big shout out for our super producer, the madness over Innsmouth, Max Williams. Whoa. Yes. Yes. That's the classic Williams enthusiasm, folks. They call me Ben Bolan in this part of the world. My podcast partner in crime, Noel Brown, is on Revengers. He's on adventures, but will be returning soon. In the meantime, this is part two of a fascinating exploration we're having with a special guest. We asked ourselves a while back, why is HP Lovecraft so very weird? And we thought there could be none better to explore this with us than the man, the myth, the legend, a good friend of our show, a brother in Arbs. On a personal level, fellow ridiculous historians, let's welcome him back with a big round of applause or whatever sound effect Max chooses. It's Jonathan Strickland. There is a little man called Jonathan.

[Noel Brown]

There is a little man called Jonathan.

[Ben Bolan]

And though it may sound strange to you, everybody tells him what to do.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Hey, if I'm going to give myself a Lovecraftian nickname, I think it's going to be the Sandwich Horror instead of the Dunwich Horror. Yeah, I like that.

[Ben Bolan]

I like that.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, I've been watching a lot of roll for Sandwich. Have you ever watched that?

[Ben Bolan]

Wait yet? It's been on for a while, right?

[Jonathan Strickland]

Oh, yeah, yeah. The guy's been doing it for a few years, but he does a thing where he rolls dice to determine what kind of bread, what kind of filling, what kind of roughage, what kind of sauce, and obviously it went wild on TikTok, but It's also on YouTube shorts. And I remember hearing about it when my brother. My brother and me worked up a table of wild magic modifiers. And so I just got a wild hair to track it down and watch all of them. And highly entertaining. But yeah, there's a lot of Eldritch horror in that series as well. Honestly, you never know if it's going to emerge or not.

[Ben Bolan]

And I'm seeing they have a cookbook there too. And I love that you're doing nicknames, Max. I hope you like yours. And of course, my true name is unpronounceable in the human tongue. If you haven't checked out episode one, please, please, please do give it a. Otherwise, without further ado, we welcome you to the darkness. You're listening to an Iheart podcast.

[Max Williams]

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

Dear Chelsea with me Chelsea Handler. Jay Shetty joins us.

[Holly Fry]

The people who need the most love often ask for it in the most unloving ways. So when I see someone's behavior, the first thing I try and think of is how is that a plea for love? Whatever behavior you see from someone, it's them asking for love in some way. And I think we see it in children the most where when a child's throwing a tantrum, they're simply asking for presence, love and connection.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremarchi, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the Highwayman suggests the men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers, known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Find more crime and cocktails on Criminalia. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Bolan]

He also is president briefly of organization that is the Pepsi to OPA's Coke, the National Amateur Press Organization, or NAPA. So it's UPPA and NAPA, and he just wants to hang out with both of them. This is what gets him back into writing fiction. If you like Call of Cthulhu Mount's Madness, this is why you like it.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah Dunwich Horror, that kind of thing. Yeah. I would say that this actually reminds me a lot. I mean, it's a different era, but it reminds me a lot of a storyline that plays out in the Apple TV series Mythic Quest. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is about a video game company that's making a massively multiplayer online role playing game. There is a character in that show named CJ who is a former Nebula award winning science fiction author who won his award back in 1974 and has been coasting on it ever since. And I get the sense that cj, that the characterization of cj, at least some elements of his personality are drawn from H.P. lovecraft. This desire for being included in an esteemed group of literary professionals, also a desire to be viewed as a particularly accomplished contributor to that group. I don't know that HP was thriving on it in the way that CJ is like a parasite in Mythic Quest. I don't think HP necessarily was a parasite at all. I think in fact he was quite the opposite. He seemed to be. One of the nice things we can say about HP Lovecraft is he genuinely seemed to be enthusiastic about encouraging young writers to write.

[Ben Bolan]

Yes. Yeah. And not in a creepy grooming way, even though they talked about really creepy things like in a genuine collegiate manner that did result in actual friendship. This is why, as you mentioned earlier, he ultimately becomes one of the most prolific letter writers of his century. I kind of don't want to imagine him on Twitter or social media, but for him being able to take the time to put the thoughts in order, he was doing great.

[Jonathan Strickland]

There's another example I can give. I think it was Robert Bloch who wrote when he wrote to him, because Bloch was significantly younger than Lovecraft. Bloch, I think, was born in 1917, so much younger than Lovecraft, but he came across some of Lovecraft's stories because they had been republished in various pulp magazines. And he wrote to Lovecraft to say, hey, do you happen to know where I can find your other works? Because I love these that I've come across, but I do not know where I can find your other stories. And Lovecraft, do you have a book?

[Ben Bolan]

Et cetera, et cetera.

[Jonathan Strickland]

And Lovecraft sent him copies of all the stories. And obviously I'm sure part of that was Lovecraft was flattered by the attention and the appeal to him as an author of great skill. But I think it also speaks to his genuine desire to have this sort of collaborative creative network of writers. I think a lot of the things we attribute to Lovecraft are at least partly the work of this massive group of other writers who all helped work within each other's worlds.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. Which he also encouraged. And I think that is perhaps one of the greatest modern innovations in Lovecraft's vu. If we're being pretentious because it's not really his past, a certain point people would write to him and say, oh, I love this story. I love the way this is constructed. I love insert ambiguous, nebulous threats here. And here's something I've been thinking about, Howard. How do you see these two things working together? You're going to be like, oh, that's great. Let me think about it. Okay, so in this world, I've got Cthulhu or something, or the goat with a thousand young. And he kind of works this way. And so maybe this is one of those thousand young. I don't know. Tell me what you think. I look forward to writing back. And then they would write back and they would. It's just something that can seem kind of rare because think about it today I'm thinking of another, like a big multi format universe. Maybe Stephen King's connected universe. Sure.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Or comic book universes. Right.

[Ben Bolan]

Ooh, that's great.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Because these comic book universes are literally made up of the contributions of hundreds of different authors and artists. And the attempt to fashion an interconnected universe of all these disparate stories and try to make them make sense within a larger narrative is an ongoing challenge. It's why you have these universe resetting events in D.C. or Marvel in particular. But it's the closest I can think of. And in that case, you've got a corporate overlord who's making sure that you've got a bunch of different authors who are all kind of working toward the same goal. But in this case, it was much more organic than that.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, I love that comparison. I think that Saper Poe. I would also say, for the important thing about the Stephen King example is imagine if you are. King is a superstar by this point, but imagine if you are someone who just likes reading scary stories and you have an idea for a scary story that you want to set in the universe Stephen King has created. There is an entire industry of legal experts who can't wait to smack someone down for trying that. You know what I mean?

[Jonathan Strickland]

Unless you're his son.

[Ben Bolan]

Unless you are Joe Hill, who I think is quite talented.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Oh, yeah, no, no doubt. I mean, you know, doctor Sleep is great, but yeah, it's funny because King himself did this within his own Work. Right. Where you would have seemingly disconnected storylines, and then he would gradually reveal that, oh, no, these actually exist within the same universe. And in fact, one will reference and perhaps even transform another. So King kind of did this as a one man show, but in Lovecraft's time, what we're talking about is literally like a dozen authors, all of whom are working in. In genres that are maybe not directly weird fiction, but are somewhat related. Like Robert E. Howard famously would be sword and sorcery. Right. That's the creator of Conan the Barbarian and Solomon Kane. Right, yeah. And so you would have these people who are working in different areas of speculative fiction, but they would start to incorporate elements of each other's work. And you get this incredibly rich tapestry where if you are a voracious reader, if you're someone who's subscribing to one of these pulp magazines, you get that rewarding feeling of, oh, I recognize that reference. Just as if you are a die hard Marvel Cinematic Universe fan and you sit there through the whole movie and you wait until that stinger at the end of the credits and you think, oh, my gosh, they're referencing this other incredibly obscure thing that was mentioned once in a television episode of Agents of SHIELD or something. It's that same kind of endorphin release. That feeling of, oh, I recognize this, that makes me feel included and special. But we're not done with Lovecraft's tragedies because just as all this is going, there's another setback in his life.

[Ben Bolan]

Absolutely. And this is. I think it's appropriate that we spend some time on the good parts so that, you know, it's not just a wretched march to the grave here, but there are more tragedies ahead. As you said, Lovecraft's mother suffers a quote unquote nervous breakdown in 1919.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, it's the family business.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. She is admitted to Butler Hospital, and just like her husband before her, she does not emerge there alive. She dies in the facility on May 24, 1921, with some gallbladder related complications. So not syphilis in this case.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Although there were some, at least some elements that I read where there was speculation that perhaps she too had syphilis. Yeah, but again, yeah, it's speculation because again, like, we're talking about a time where records aren't as thorough, the actual medical practice isn't as thorough. It all depends upon what you have access to. So again, this could be elements of speculation, but there have been those who have suggested that perhaps she too was Inflicted by syphilis.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. And this is horrific either way you slice it. And because this is the most important person in Lovecraft's life at this point, for better or worse, he is shattered, and he spends a few weeks in a very dark, emotional place, but eventually he says, stiff upper lip, we must soldier on. And he goes to a journalism convention in Boston. This is on Independence Day, 1921. And despite being an avowed racist and a virulent anti Semite, he hits it off with a Jewish woman named Sonya Haft Green. She's seven years older than him. They feel like they click. This is the closest thing this guy is ever gonna get to a meet greet in a rom com. And he is head over the heels. Head over the heels. I'm still learning English. We'll keep it.

[Jonathan Strickland]

He's ass over tea kettle.

[Ben Bolan]

Yes, yes, Just so. So he visits Sonya in her apartment in Brooklyn in 1922, and then by March 3, 1924, they're married. There's a bit of acrimony in the Lovecraft household because he does not tell his two aunts who raised them and still, of course, very much come from that patrician mindset. Lillian D. Clark and Annie E. Phillips Gamwell find out that their lovely nephew got married via the Post.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, this is like they receive a letter. It's like breaking up via text. So, Ben, quick question for you. Do you think that H.P. lovecraft's, let us say in the language of Facebook, its complicated relationship with his mother may have played some part in him becoming enamored of a woman seven years his senior?

[Ben Bolan]

100%. I would take it a step further with you. Let's keep walking down that one, because I would also argue his fraught relationship with his mother informed his decision to marry, literally, the first other lady who was nice to him.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Bolan]

Just to have that constant maternal figure.

[Jonathan Strickland]

And to be fair, I never met the man.

[Ben Bolan]

Okay, yeah. No, we have to say that neither of us do.

[Jonathan Strickland]

It could be that we are way off base and we're viewing this from a lens in the 21st century that just simply cannot see the minutiae. But there are certain indicators that appear to support that narrative.

[Ben Bolan]

There we go. We do know some facts that are inarguable. Post matrimony, Lovecraft moves into Sonja's place. She's got that apartment in Brooklyn. And at first, it looks like our newly minted couple is gonna be doing okay. Sonja owns a hat shop off fifth Avenue, which even back then is a big deal. Lovecraft is making a living. A modest living, but a living nonetheless as a professional writer. Several of his earlier stories have been accepted by Weird Tales, one of the preeminent pulp publications of the day. But unfortunately, tragedy comes back again, back into the fore. Their happy honeymoon period is all too brief. Sonja's hat shop goes bankrupt. Lovecraft turns down some opportunities that he should have taken to rise in the world of publishing. He could have been the editor of a. Of a magazine that was coming out sort of adjacent to Weird Tales. Not a competitor, but like a compliment. Like, if you like this, you'll also like this.

[Jonathan Strickland]

The problem was that this job would have necessitated a move. He would have had to move to Chicago. And that was a pretty big ask when you've got like at the same time you have this failing business that is not in Chicago and clearly your wife cannot accompany you without abandoning the business entirely. So it was a tough call, right? Like, it's not as simple as, hey, you can stay exactly where you are and take this gig. It's no, you have to upend your life and start over in a new city, but you will have this gig. And ultimately Lovecraft says, you know, it's too rich for my blood to have to move over there. I'm going to stay where I am. I've got my wife, whom I can always depend upon, who will be stalwart and true and will never get sick ever.

[Ben Bolan]

Right? And then she got sick and then she had her health turned south as well. She has to go to a sanitarium in New Jersey. And Lovecraft needs to do his best to support her and himself and probably a few cats at this point. And so he tries to find a job. He is, and we say this with great affection, he's a little bit nebbish, you know what I mean? This guy, his hands, they don't have calluses.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, it's not like, I mean, we mentioned this earlier. It's not like he had any work experience whatsoever. Like we mentioned that when he was doing the whole hermit thing. And same is true now, right? He's 34 and he lacks any practical skills that he can apply to landing your regular kind of job. So what are you going to do? He's in a really bad way.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, he's in a non ideal situation and he has to move again. And this is a guy who very much hates moving, just to be clear. And so he has to go to a bachelor apartment, a single apartment, and it's near a area of Brooklyn called Red Hook. This will Go on to inform a lot of his writing in a very non complimentary way to the neighborhood and the people of Red Hook.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yes. He's having to associate with folks outside of his normal realm of experience. And he has a negative point of view about that.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, the foreign hordes, the masses of foreigners in the city, and to the point where, you know, you can read. I don't think it's a spoiler at this juncture, but you can read where there are characters in Lovecraft stories who immediately just intuitively know that the foreigners in Red Hook practice secret religions to squamous and unclean gods. Why? Because they had a bit of an air to their eyebrows.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah. If you read any Lovecraft stories, like a lot of them end up incorporating characters who are black, and they are also typically antagonists or sometimes depicted as barbaric. And to Lovecraft, civilization was the epitome of human achievement. And so anything that was considered uncivilized in Lovecraft's eyes would be equivalent to being evil. So he depicted a lot of black characters as being primitive, barbaric, uncivilized, and as a result of those things, also prone to worshiping these sort of profane figures that ultimately would have an incredibly negative impact on typically, the protagonist. I don't know if any of y' all have read a lot of Lovecraft, but if you have, you probably are aware that there's a better than 85% chance the protagonist is not making it out alive or sane by the end of the story.

[Ben Bolan]

Of course. Yeah. And that's, you know, I enjoy that part of the structure actually, that the, that, you know, it's upending a lot of the conventional rules of stories of that time.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, right. Unless you're Robert Chambers, who already did it in the Yellow King. But okay.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, yeah. And the Yellow King is. Is great. Oh, I love that one story, the Repairer of Reputations. Do check out the Yellow King. Just know it's an anthology of short stories by Robert Chambers. Not every one of them slaps. I'm just going to be diplomatic.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Well, and not all of them. I don't think most people would categorize all of them as falling into weird fiction, but the ones that do, the ones that do really like, you can see. Not that it's speculated that Lovecraft didn't encounter a lot of those stories till after he was already writing. So it seems like it was not a case of any sort of influence or plagiarism. I don't want to suggest that, but Chambers established a lot of tropes that Lovecraft and his contemporaries would continue to engage in.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, and Lovecraft also, you know, you have to bring Algernon Blackwood into the conversation and several other things that, you know, Lovecraft was not just like. He wasn't reticent to criticize stuff he didn't like. He was also never reticent to praise stuff that he enjoyed or felt informed him. So we have to give him points there. But despite the fact that he has generated these friendships, this massive correspondence, he has a couple of what we would call IRL friends there in New York. He's still depressed.

[Max Williams]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, Jay Shetty joins us.

[Holly Fry]

The people who need the most love often ask for it in the most unloving ways. So when I see someone's behavior, the first thing I try and think of is how is that a plea for love? Whatever behavior you see from someone, it's them asking for love in some way. And I think we see it in children the most where when a child's throwing a tantrum, they're simply asking for presence, love and connection. And I think we're all just big children who are still asking for love, still seeking that approval, still wanting that connection and that embrace.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And also to meet everything with love. Right when you can come from a place of love, even when you're dealing with anger or frustration or any of the Things that don't make you feel good. To just return it with love is a beautiful lesson. Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Noel Brown]

I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all, his wife, Caroline.

[Max Williams]

He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me.

[Noel Brown]

Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And to his community.

[Jonathan Strickland]

She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing.

[Ben Bolan]

No.

[Noel Brown]

How far would Joel go to college, cover up what he'd done?

[Jonathan Strickland]

You're unable to keep track of all your lies, and quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future.

[Noel Brown]

This season of Betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception. Lies that left those closest to him.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Questioning everything they thought they knew.

[Noel Brown]

Listen to betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Bolan]

He still feels isolated, and he's still cartoonishly xenophobic. So in 1926, he returns to Providence. He just feels like he has to do it. The scuttlebutt here is that his aunts don't want him to bring his wife. He doesn't know what will happen with Sonja, but he goes anyway. And so.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, so leading up to this, when he was in Red Hook, Sonja was actually in Cleveland. She was still seeking treatment in Cleveland. So that's one of the reasons why he felt so isolated, is that his wife. You could start to see a pattern with his dependency. I'm sure there was a codependent kind of thing going on between him and his mother, and I suspect something similar was going on between him and his wife. And he's separated from her while she's seeking treatment in Cleveland. He's in Red Hook. They reunite when they go to Providence in 1926. But through one means or another, that relationship becomes unsustainable. And 1929, it comes to an end. But this is also right around the time where Lovecraft is finally actually experiencing the success of his work. He's been at it for quite some time, but this is like the renaissance of Lovecraft that we're entering into here.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. And we have to recognize this paradox, which, unfortunately, may sound familiar to a lot of people. Your professional life goes really well, and your personal life tanks. Or your personal life goes really well, and your professional life Tanks. And it seems that Lovecraft is always trying to find that balance and often without success.

[Jonathan Strickland]

See also every standup comedian ever.

[Ben Bolan]

Yes. See also literally every standup comedian come at us for that one. All right, so you nailed it. Jonathan Lovecraft returns to Providence, 1926, like you said, and the last 10 years of his life. He may have found some kind of balance here. Possibly his best decade as a writer, maybe some of his best personal years as well. His life at this point isn't super eventful. You know, he's not living out real life pirate cosplay or anything. He does travel to a lot of historic sites around the eastern seaboard to soak in their culture with varying reactions. And they all kind of. They start to inform his fiction. You know, his generally like the one. The work that even non Lovecraft fans know the most about is probably going to be the Call of Cthulhu in 26 or at the Mountains of Madness in 1931. While he's writing these stories that will go on to cement his legacy, he's doing another legacy cementing move, which is he's writing about these to his friends, his peers, you know what I mean? What do you guys think about. What do you guys think about breeding with fish people to worship a fish God?

[Jonathan Strickland]

Right? What do you think about this little story I got called Dagon, which ends up being one of my favorites of Lovecraft. That's actually my favorite film adaptation of Lovecraft.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, come on.

[Jonathan Strickland]

But only if you're going as a fairly strict following of. If you're going into the more loose adaptations of Lovecraft. My favorite is Reanimator. I mean, it's always going to be Reanimator. Evil Dead is obviously inspired by Lovecraft. It's not an adaptation though. But Reanimator is. And it's bonkers and I love it. And it's fantastic. I mean, there's so many great adaptations of Lovecraft. But again, that collaborative nature, that camaraderie that was built up between all these different authors who are sharing ideas and nurturing one another's ideas and informing one another's ideas. I would argue that a Lovecraft story is not solely a Lovecraft story. It is the product of this collaborative universe. Just as I would say Robert E. Howard story is a, again, a product of this. That the prime author is whomever actually wrote the piece, but that that piece would not exist, at least not in the form that we are familiar with, without this collaborative relationship going on between all these different authors who are encouraging each other to participate in this process. And again, it's one of those things where I'm like, I'm not aware of too many other instances where something like this has happened, at least not organically, where it wasn't just some sort of weird content farm kind of approach.

[Ben Bolan]

Right, yeah, that's the key part there, that it organically arose as he was not just enjoying his own success and pursuing it, but he was hoping interest would be contagious. Right. He wanted other people to pick up up the toys that he had built and play with them and maybe make some toys of their own. And there's something human and astonishing about that. We also know we're going to set him up before we have to do the drop here. We also know that he was not 100% immovable in some of his ideas and prejudices. The Great Depression occurred during his lifetime. He witnessed this and it led him to support Roosevelt, which might be surprised based on some of the stuff we already know about his background and his racist perspective. But he became a socialist toward the end.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Well, and the Great Depression affected him as well as affecting working people all over the place in that publications like Weird Tales began to scale back. They were still printing because as we are all familiar at this point, I think some of us are now becoming directly familiar that times of recession or depression, entertainment often is one of the few industries that continues to do well as people seek escape from the stresses of life. Well, same was true back then during the Great Depression, which, by the way, not that great, if you ask me.

[Ben Bolan]

It's a terrible name.

[Jonathan Strickland]

It was a pretty awful depression. But, yeah, even with that, they had to scale back. They just couldn't afford to continue publication on the same schedule that they had been doing, which in turn had a cascading effect on all the different authors who were contributing to those publications. And so Lovecraft himself was feeling the effects of the Depression just like other people were. And perhaps the hardships of his life once his grandfather had passed and his legacy was mishandled so dramatically gave him a little bit of reflection into how life isn't all tea time and gothic tales by the fire.

[Ben Bolan]

And we've spoken at length about the intensely problematic views regarding Lovecraft. There have been, of course, there are still continual additions to the existing mythos, even here in 2025. And there are authors like Matt Ruff, the creator of Lovecra, who kind of navigate these issues by centering people of color in their Lovecraftian explorations. And we know, look, Lovecraft, we Still don't know how he would have reacted if he saw the effect that he has had upon fiction and speculative fiction, weird horror today, because the last two or three years of his life were also filled with more heartbreak. His aunt, Ms. Clark, died. He moved in with his other aunt, Ms. Gamwell, to another, basically an apartment. And his later stories were more and more difficult to sell. They were kind of struggling under the weight of the world building he had created.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Again, something that Marvel fans can kind of identify with, that the longer you go with this interconnected mythos, the more is required of the code consumer of that art to have at least some familiarity with the stuff that came before, or else they're completely lost.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, yeah. Shout out to everybody who just saw Iron Man 3.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Right, right. But, yeah, to your point, we're getting toward the end of his life here and we'll just. I think we can skip ahead to say that he has cancer. And by the time the cancer was discovered, it had progressed to a point where the writing was already on the wall. And so he too began to fall apart. And eventually he passed away due to the cancer he had. And so there's definitely tragedy in his life. I don't want to just paint Lovecraft as this xenophobic, racist blowhard who espoused views that were absolutely terrible, but we also can't completely divorce ourselves of that because that informed his writing. I mean, it's clear in some of his stories. I don't think Death of the Author is something we can easily apply here because those views inform much of his work.

[Ben Bolan]

Agreed, 100%. And I think we could add a little bit of armchair psychology here with the following. Tell me what you guys think about this. After doing a bunch of reading for this stuff and over the years as a fan of Lovecraftian work, I have come to the light conclusion that one of his mental issues may have been something we would recognize as obsessive compulsive disorder or ocd, in that his racism, his xenophobia, it's one of his many weird hangups, probably the most dangerous. But he had a lot of very strident opinions for and against things, and he did obsess over them to what would be considered an abnormal degree. Give you one of the fun ones. And this made me think of you, Jonathan. He hated seafood. He hated seafood. Now, not all of our listeners may know this, you and I have talked about over the years on our many adventures, but he actively hates it. I don't know if you actively hate it, but you Definitely can't eat it.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, no, I can't eat it because I have a severe shellfish allergy, one that will send me to the emergency room if I have any shellfish, or at least lobster and shrimp are the known shellfish that I am allergic to. I have eliminated all shellfish, including stuff outside of things like lobsters and shrimp and stuff, from my diet because after having that experience a couple times, I don't want to ever have it again. Plus, it was pretty scary the last time. And also, it means that I have to be careful around seafood in general because of cross contamination. So I don't hate seafood. I do avoid seafood unless I am extremely certain that the seafood restaurant or whatever is very good about avoiding cross contamination. So I would not go so far as to cast fish as the bad guys in my story.

[Ben Bolan]

But maybe there's an untrusty. There's an untrustworthy mollusk from Brooklyn.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yes, maybe. Yeah, I could have, like, I don't know, a shifty crab, maybe.

[Ben Bolan]

That's how they walk, man.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, yeah, they're always. They're always edging away from you, you know? But, yeah, Lovecraft, like, famously despised seafood to the point where he made a big deal of it, and also, at least according to what we came across, appeared to never really evolve his dietary preferences beyond a small child and liked to eat lots of sweet stuff and not so much anything of real nutritional value.

[Ben Bolan]

He'd mess with a sandwich.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, he would mess with a sandwich. Probably a PB and J, if I had to guess.

[Ben Bolan]

But dough, crust?

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, but he's cut on the diagonal. But he. He. He definitely despised seafood, which, if you're growing up in Rhode island, that's rough, y' all.

[Ben Bolan]

That's a. That's right. Yeah. That's such a waste. And, Max, we'll throw it to you in. In a second for the update on the condition, if you're comfortable. But for now, what you need to know is we discovered one of the few times that Lovecraft is on record swearing. He did not swear casually nor conversationally, but the story goes. Got this. Thanks. Our friends at Mental Floss, that he hated seafood so much, so cartoonishly, that one time a friend of his was trying to get him outside, get him out of his creepy little room, and they said, hey, come with me. We'll go have dinner. And when Lovecraft found out that the dinner was steamed clams, Lovecraft said, quote, while you are eating that God damn stuff, I'll go across the street for a sandwich. Please excuse me.

[Jonathan Strickland]

I Do love that he was reluctant to swear in public, but he had no problem throwing racial slurs around.

[Ben Bolan]

Right? Yeah. That's a weird demarcation of decorum. All right, so before we wrap. Wrap up. Max, I saw you pop on. What's going on, my friend?

[Noel Brown]

Oh, I just wanted to commiserate with Jonathan that because of the condition, I cannot eat any shellfish as well, so. But you and I can sit around eating, like, plain chicken together and being. And talk about how much we like it despite not.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Was there a time when you could eat shellfish?

[Noel Brown]

Yes.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Okay. Is there any years ago, any particular shellfish that you really miss?

[Noel Brown]

Mussels are probably my favorite shellfish. I personally, I have a very much a love hate relationship with shrimp. I just. I just know too much about them. I class in high school and I. They're just, like, really gross to me.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Sure.

[Noel Brown]

Crab, lobster, all that stuff just seems so annoying to eat. I mean, oysters are good, but also oysters are just like.

[Ben Bolan]

They're the boogers of the sea.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. It's like, what? There's not really anything in there.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Well, also. Also opening up an oyster is taking your life in your own hands. Trying to use a knife to pry one of those shells open without, like, shoving it through your hand.

[Noel Brown]

John, you got to remember 10 years of food and beverage experience. I mean, I was mostly front of house, but I'm pretty good with knives in the kitchen.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, see me, no, I'm being a left hander and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, Lefties, though. I'm just saying, like, a lot of tools were made for right handers. And it does get annoying when you're getting to that.

[Noel Brown]

That's why we're superior, is because we have grown up with the spiral and the spiral notebook digging into our hands. You know, there's desks in public school. They're always on the right side at the left side. Actually, when I went with Georgia State and where I got my degree from, they had left handed ones, but it was always, like, I would always sit in right hand one and righties would sit in left hand ones. We were all complaining about how stupid the desk is because.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, well. Well, for me, it's shrimp po. Boys. Like, Like, I too, share a deep understanding of shrimp and the issues and good things.

[Ben Bolan]

I like the little line of poop, man.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah. Do you? Yeah, it's always. It's great picking up a shrimp in a restaurant and seeing that there and thinking, oh, you didn't even take the basic step of deveining the shrimp. But no, yeah, I miss poboys a lot. But I've gotten to the point where I've eliminated pretty, especially any place that does fried seafood. Obviously you got to be careful about the oil. So the thing I really miss is calamari. I miss calamari a lot.

[Ben Bolan]

Well, hey, if it makes you guys feel better, there's a big problem with counterfeit calamari. So a lot of your friends who are bragging about eating it may be eating pig intestine.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, I've often heard that. But I've also heard it debunked, but I'm not sure cause there is that one Lovecraft story where the monsters are pig intestines.

[Ben Bolan]

So yes, yeah, yeah, there's also. Oh we should mention this too. Also, not every. He has at least a few stories where the human esque or human descended villains are not just the quote unquote foreigners that he would describe. There's one in particular, I'm trying to remember it, that's about a southern family of white folks who, who used to be well thought of but then they became inbred and they committed miscegenation and turned into like mole people. Yeah, do you remember that one?

[Jonathan Strickland]

I don't remember that one. For the sake of transparency, it has been a long time since I've read Lovecraft's works. I did read. I think I pretty much read every single published work he had besides, you know, the compilations of letters. But I've read pretty much all of his short stories and everything. But it's been years and with so much other media either directly or indirectly inspired by Lovecraft, it's easy for me to conflate things. So I don't want to say something and then just be totally wrong simply because my brains got scrambled back in 2024 pretty darn good. And it turns out, anything before 2024 I can never be entirely sure if I'm remembering it or if I'm inventing it.

[Max Williams]

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Noel Brown]

Hey everybody. So when you get asked, what is Odoo? What comes to mind? Well, I'll tell you. Odoo is a bit of everything. Odoo is a suite of business management software that some people say is like fertilizer because the way it promotes growth.

[Ben Bolan]

Growth.

[Noel Brown]

But you know, some people also say that Odoo is like a magic beanstalk because it grows with your company and is also magically affordable.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Ooh. But then again, you could look at Odoo in terms of how its individual software programs are a lot like building blocks. Whatever your business needs, manufacturing, accounting, HR programs, you can build a custom software suite that's perfect for your company. So what does Odoo? Well, Odoo is a bit of everything. Odoo is a fertilizer, magic beanstalk building blocks for business. Yeah, that's it.

[Noel Brown]

Which means that Odoo is exactly what every business needs. Learn more and sign up [e-mail] that's o d o o.com.

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[Ben Bolan]

It is the lurking fear by H.P. lovecraft. I'll have to reread it, but I believe that's the story. So everybody could get a little bit of xenophobia from Lovecraft. I think that's the one where he also talks trash about Dutch people or something.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Again, you know, you walk around in wooden shoes long enough, you're going to bound to tick somebody off. I knew that from my clogging days.

[Ben Bolan]

Yes, that is true. We've got to include that in the thank you credits. Big thanks to our super producer, Mr. Max Williams. I've been a research associate for a lot of this. We hope you enjoyed it. Big thanks as well to Alex Williams, who composed this slap and bop. AJ Bahamas Jacobs, also known as the Puzzler. And of course, Jonathan Strickland. Thanks to you. This was really awesome, man. I loved learning more with you and I appreciate you not being the Quizzter today.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Oh, yeah, no, that's probably.

[Ben Bolan]

You should.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Sorry. No, yeah, it's really. Oh, excuse me. Sorry. I don't know what.

[Ben Bolan]

He's vibrating.

[Jonathan Strickland]

No, it's time.

[Ben Bolan]

We were so close. I trusted you. Oh, God.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Let's get weird with it.

[Ben Bolan]

All right, Max, I'm gonna need you to help me out on this. I imagine our friend's alter ego is here to play a game.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yes. Welcome to the Quizzter segment, the most cringe worthy segment in all of podcast casting, where I the quiz to quiz our beloved hosts. Where's Noel? Noel should be here.

[Noel Brown]

We're a little better off with no out here.

[Jonathan Strickland]

But I. I mean, I agree.

[Noel Brown]

Because I have to put on my quiz their shirt.

[Jonathan Strickland]

All right, well, I just want to tell you, sucking up does work, so excellent job there, Max.

[Ben Bolan]

That really it, folks. That really is.

[Jonathan Strickland]

He really is wearing it. We're all on video and he just proved it.

[Noel Brown]

Well, Ben and Noel get the credit. They just like, you know, Ben reached out to me, like, what's your address? And what size shirt do you actually, I think you have? I think you have my address, Ben. But you're like, what size shirt you wear? Max, I sent that to you, and all of a sudden I just had ridiculous history shirts.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yes, I do have to to admit that I'm wearing a shirt with a black cat on it. But it is not Lovecraft's cat. I want to make that very clear.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, wow. Yes. Yes. Yeah, that's good. Myth busty. Now quisr arch nemesis of lo these several years. That sounded less dramatic when I had to be accurate. But of lo these several years with our good friend and partner in crime, Noel. On adventure, it falls to young Max Williams and I to play your insidious game.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yes. And this game is where I present to you three scenarios. Two of them are real and one, I made upsies. And so tis down to thee to determine which of these is the one that I made up. And I will present to you the three scenarios. And upon the presentation, you will have three minutes to confer between the two of you to determine which of the three are fake. I want to say this one is, I think, pretty. This one's not hard, but it was fun to write.

[Ben Bolan]

Don't set us up like that, man.

[Noel Brown]

Don't try to make us look really bad when we. We flail and do awful at this one.

[Ben Bolan]

I'm in your head, dude. I know how you work.

[Jonathan Strickland]

I have faith in you. But as always, if you wish to ask a question for clarification sake, and if I happen to know the answer, you can do so. But you have to preface it with a phrase of my own choosing. For this particular quiz, that phrase shall be. Of course, it must be Yaya Cthulhu Fatagan, right?

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah. Pronunciation is very clear. It's. I mean, despite the fact that Lovecraft wrote it in such a way that you're not supposed to be able to say it with the human tongue, right? I am being very persnickety. No? Here are your three scenarios. I shall start with scenario number one. One of Lovecraft's predecessors, Mr. Edgar Allan Poe, receives credit for helping establish the genre of. Of mystery fiction. However, did you know that Poe's own journey included debunking the famous mechanical Turk? The Turk was an invention of Wolfgang von Kempelen from nearly a century before and appeared to be a humanoid automaton capable of playing expert levels of chess. By the time Poe investigated it, Kempelen was long dead, and a man named Johann Meltzer, who took this Turk from Europe to America, was doing exhibitions across the eastern coast of the United States. Poe argued that because the Turk occasionally lost in chess games, it must therefore be controlled by a person either inside the device or from some remote location, because machines would win every single time. Now, as we all know from ChatGPT, that's not necessarily a guarantee, but our PO boy was at least right. But for the wrong reason. Scenario 2 Lovecraft Contemporary and correspondent Robert E. Howard is probably best known for the creation of the beefcake barbarian. Conan Howard became part of the Lovecraft circle. These are the authors who collaborated with one another sharing stories and concepts in an effort to weave together a rich tapestry of mythology. Two Gun Bob, as he was known within the circle, made a major contribution to the Lovecraftian mythology, the Necronomicon. While Lovecraft had invented the name Abdul Alhazred many years before the two corresponded, it was Robert E. Howard who first incorporated what later storytellers would call the Book of the Dead into a sword and sorcery tale titled the Tomb of the Witch. The Necronomicon is only mentioned in the story and holds no significance for the plot, but Lovecraft liked the sound of the title and, with Robert E. Howard's permission, used it in his own works. You can really argue the Necronomicon didn't really hit the big time until far after Lovecraft's death. And that's where I say groovy. Scenario 3. Before becoming a famous crime novelist, Robert Albert Bloch was a young member of the Lovecraft circle, contributing to publications like Weird Tales and such and participating in the group mythology created by Lovecraft. Robert E. Howard, August Derleth, J. Vernon Shea, Clark Ashton Smith, and many, many others. Bloch's first published piece in Weird Tales wasn't a short story, but rather a critique of Conan stories, showing that not all authors within the Lovecraft circle fell over themselves to praise one another's work work. Bloch himself served as an inspiration for a character named Robert Blake in Lovecraft's the Haunter of the Dark. Lovecraft killed off Blake in that story as a playful response to Bloch, having previously invented a character based on Lovecraft, only to have him killed off in a tale titled the Shamble from the Stars. Oh, and Lovecraft also doxxed Bloch by including his real life address in the story. Bloch eventually shifted away from weird fiction and became better known for the crime stories he wrote, including the novel Psycho. Begin.

[Ben Bolan]

Okay, okay, so I am gonna run over to this grandfather clock that we paid way too much money for again. And then we're going to start the timer. And then we're gonna start the timer right now.

[Jonathan Strickland]

All right?

[Noel Brown]

I don't even remember what we're supposed to be doing is the we're trying to find one that's fake or one that's real.

[Ben Bolan]

The one that's fake. Two are real, one is made up. We have a ticking clock of 2 minutes, 50 seconds, and we can ask. This is our time for you and I to work together to determine what we think is most likely. We can also ask the Qur a question as long as we begin it like this. I I Cthulhu.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Oh, my gosh, you're just. You're just needling me on purpose. Go ahead, Mr. Mr. Bowlin.

[Ben Bolan]

Okay, all right, Fagin. I did mispronounce it so, Quister, just for a quick recap, the idea is that Edgar Allan Poe myth busted the Mechanical Turk. Scenario 1. HP Lovecraft got the idea and the name of the Necronomicon not from his own head, but from another author. Scenario two and scenario three. That members of the mythos weren't above dunking on each other's works or even playfully setting up fictional characters based on each other.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Right. And then killing them off. Playfully.

[Ben Bolan]

And then killing them off with whatever passes for playfulness in that circle. Okay, I'm going to say it this way, Max. I think it's number one. Two.

[Noel Brown]

You think it's number two? I was between one or two. Hold on a second, let me. Yeah, yeah. Cpin.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yes, Max?

[Noel Brown]

I mean, this is just pretty simple question, Jonathan. Are you well aware that this segment is 100% a very transparent ripoff of. Wait, wait, don't tell me he's bluff. The listener segment where people tell a story and there's three. There's three stories and only one of them is real.

[Jonathan Strickland]

I don't. I don't. I'm not familiar with this. Is this a new. A new program perhaps? Where could I hear such a thing? I have no idea what you're talking about. I like to think of it as. Podcasters are just part of a large collaborative effort and no one's ideas are all their own.

[Noel Brown]

I mean, we've been having a running series on intellectual property, so I don't know. I think it's something we all share in the world of art. Ben, this is 100% out of my spectrum.

[Jonathan Strickland]

So.

[Noel Brown]

So I was thinking one or two, and if you think it's two, I say two.

[Ben Bolan]

Let's lock it in. Okay. Three, two, one. Boom. Locked in. All right, Quester, we're going with number two as the fake story.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Well, gentlemen, you're right. I told you this was going to be a relatively easy one. Yes. No. So in fact, Robert Block. Not Robert Block, I'm sorry, Robert E. Howard, who has so many. Roberts. Robert E. Howard did contribute some titles of books that would find their ways into Lovecraft's work, but Necronomicon was in fact something Lovecraft himself came up with independently. It does find itself mentioned in other authors works, often as just one of those books that litters an arcane occult cultists bookshelf sort of thing. But yes, number two is a fiction. There was no story called the Tomb of the Witch. I completely invented that. That no such stories. It's similar to titles that Robert E. Block or Robert E. Howard did write, but not that one. That's a fabrication. So congratulations, we did it.

[Noel Brown]

Follow up, was Robert E. Robert E. Howard or whatever was he named after Robert E. Lee?

[Jonathan Strickland]

I do not believe so. He had a rather unfortunate and tragic story of his own. His life was cut short. I think he was only something like 36 when he shuffled off the mortal coil by his own hand, if I'm recalling correctly.

[Ben Bolan]

Even younger, I think he was.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Might have only been 30.

[Ben Bolan]

He was only 30.

[Jonathan Strickland]

He was quite young.

[Ben Bolan]

Well, with this we gratefully accept the laurels of victory, knowing that there will be yet another conflict on the horizon in our continuing cosmic horror of a trick quiz show that happens at the end of every. Not every episode, but just enough for us to not be able to predict it. With that Quister, AKA Jonathan Strickland. We can't thank you enough for hanging out with us on the show, man, and I hope you had a good time. Maybe we can do some more of these in the future.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, it was a pleasure dropping the quizter for this because. Tired? No, it was great because as you know, I hung up the podcasting headphones not that long ago. And so occasionally I do miss it. And it's fun to get on the microphone and. And rap about stuff with y' all and to explore these topics and to really kind of, you know, have fun.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Indulge in that curiosity.

[Ben Bolan]

Just so you know, we. We cut the part where you were rapping. Not because it was bad, not cause it was bad. You had a tight 16. I respect it.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Well, yeah, because it starts with a hip hop. A hippie did a hippie hip hop. Don't stop rocking with the diamondbing.

[Ben Bolan]

This breaks up. That's our show. We'll see you next time.

[Noel Brown]

For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the.

[Ben Bolan]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Listen to your favorite shows.

[Andrea Gunning]

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler. Jay Shetty joins us.

[Holly Fry]

The people who need the most love often ask for it in the most unloving ways. So when I see someone's behavior, the first thing I try and think of is how is that a plea for love? Whatever behavior you see from someone, it's them asking for love in some way. And I think we see it in children the most, where when a child's throwing a tantrum, they're simply asking for presence, love and connection.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Podcasts Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Trimarchi, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the Highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers, known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Find more crime and cocktails on Criminalia. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Bolan]

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