Ridiculous History – "Knitting as Espionage, Part One: Secrets in the Stitch" (March 17, 2026)

Hosts: Ben Bowlin & Noel Brown
Podcast: Ridiculous History by iHeartPodcasts

Overview

In this engaging episode, Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown unravel the surprisingly rich history of knitting as a tool for espionage. Swinging from the American Revolution through World War II and on to Cold War intrigue, they reveal how knitting—a seemingly innocent domestic craft—became a cloak-and-dagger medium for secret communications and counterintelligence. With lively banter, signature tangents, and a few memorable quips, the hosts shine a light on three extraordinary women whose "secrets in the stitch" helped shape the past.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Knitting and Espionage: Thematic Introduction

• The hosts continue their exploration of how crafts, particularly knitting, have served clandestine purposes in history.
• “[Knitting] as tradecraft, of people conducting espionage and acts of spying through something as humble as knitting.” – Ben Bowlin (00:16)
• They promise a deep dive into real-world examples of wartime spies who leveraged knitting as their tool of trade.

2. Molly "Old Mom" Rinker: The Revolutionary Spy

• [07:03]
• Molly Rinker, an innkeeper in Philadelphia during the American Revolutionary War, used her overlooked position as a woman to gather intel from British guests.
• She delivered secret messages to the Continental Army—mostly to George Washington—by hiding them in balls of yarn and then casually tossing them to Patriot couriers as they passed by.
• Memorable analogy: “It’s kind of like how you have a message in a fortune cookie. Or it’s kind of like how you have soup in a dumpling, right?” – Ben Bowlin (08:43)
• Her contributions were “absolutely ... mission critical during the 1777-1778 Philadelphia Campaign.” – Noel Brown (09:23)

3. Phyllis “Pippa” Latour Doyle: WWII’s Knitting Code Hero

• [10:00]
• A 23-year-old South African-born British secret agent, Latour parachuted into Nazi-occupied Normandy in May 1944.
• Member of Churchill’s special army, the SOE (Special Operations Executive), she posed as a local woman with the codename Genevieve. Her assignment: gather intelligence for Allied bombing missions.
• She transmitted 135 Morse-coded messages but the twist? Her codes were disguised in the lace of her hair tie, which she wrapped around a knitting needle and concealed in a shoelace.
• Notable Quote:
  • “I always carried knitting because my codes were on a piece. I wrapped the piece of silk around a knitting needle and put it in a flat shoelace that I used to tie up my hair.” – Phyllis Latour, as quoted by Ben Bowlin (11:22)
• Despite being detained and strip-searched, she was never caught due to the cleverness of her concealment—and the authorities’ tendency to underestimate women.
• She survived the war and remained quiet about her exploits, which only emerged publicly very late in her life; she died in 2023 at 102 years old.

4. Elizabeth Bentley: The Red Spy Queen’s Yarn Bag Secrets

• [17:24]
• Elizabeth Bentley, “The Communist June Cleaver,” began as an American Communist spy, gathering intel in Washington D.C. for her Soviet handlers.
• Later became a double agent, voluntarily turning herself in to the FBI due to paranoia, fear for her life, and disillusionment with Communism.
• Her counterintelligence work led to convictions of 11 Communist Party leaders, but also fueled the Red Scare and the “witch hunt” atmosphere of McCarthyism.
• Bentley hid classified documents, microfilms, and even plans for the B-29 bomber in her knitting bag.
• Notable Moment:
  • “They really should have [searched her knitting bag], because that was definitely in there.” – Noel Brown (26:20)
• Her testimony was instrumental in high-profile anti-Communist investigations and contributed to widespread paranoia.
• Discussed Context:
  • The House Un-American Activities Committee’s role and its legacy until 1975.
  • Reflection on the dangers and moral ambiguity of spycraft.

5. Knitting, Coding & Fabric as Information Technology

• [28:06, 32:11, 39:13]
• The hosts share how governments recognized the intelligence risk of knitting: the US Office of Censorship restricted mailing knitting patterns internationally in 1942.
• Detailed exploration of the differences between knitting, crocheting, croquet (the lawn game), and croquettes (the food).
• Pop culture, etymology, and food tangents abound, with Max, the super producer, chipping in as resident "Crochet, Croquet, Croquette" expert.
• Educational Bit:
  • “Knitting uses two needles to create much more stretchy and draping fabrics ... crocheting uses a hook ... to produce a thicker, sturdier fabric.” – Noel Brown (32:11)

6. Historical Parallels: Incan Khipu, Punchcards, and Geocities

• [35:32 – 42:33]
• The Incas’ khipu system: knots and strings used for encoding census data, taxes, and possibly stories or philosophies.
• The Jacquard loom is cited as a precursor to computing, using punch cards for automated machine knitting, which influenced the earliest computers.
• The hosts relate this to modern digital espionage, such as CIA messages hidden in goofy Star Wars fan sites; history repeats itself with new media.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Underestimating Women in Spycraft:
  • “Because again, not to sound too soapboxy, they did not take women seriously.” – Ben Bowlin (12:28)
• On Espionage Paranoia:
  • “Tradecraft is pretty brutal. And you ... are only worth the actions you can do ... As soon as your value is no longer relevant, they might kill you.” – Ben Bowlin (21:08)
• On the Red Scare:
  • “It was very much a witch hunt.” – Noel Brown (23:55)
• On the Cyclical Nature of Hidden Messages:
  • “Just because knitting is no longer a gold standard way of secretly communicating intelligence, that doesn’t mean ... other things like that don’t exist. Purposefully crappy websites ... I would propose a version of this same tactic.” – Ben Bowlin (37:15)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [07:03] – Molly “Old Mom” Rinker and the Revolutionary War
• [10:00] – Phyllis “Pippa” Latour Doyle and WWII code-hiding knitting
• [17:24] – Elizabeth Bentley (“Red Spy Queen”), WWII and Cold War double agent
• [32:11] – Difference between knitting, crocheting, croquet, and croquettes
• [35:32–36:21] – Modern equivalents: CIA and Star Wars fan sites
• [39:13–42:33] – Incan khipu knots, Jacquard loom, birth of computing
• [42:41] – Closing thanks and credits

Memorable Tangents

• Recurring jokes about “crochet, croquet, and croquette” (33:09–34:15)
• Banter about Atlanta weather and neighborhood camaraderie (01:51–02:41)
• Food and etymology of croquettes, influences of colonialism on cuisine (34:15–35:32)
• Promise of a Dave & Buster’s trip for anyone who cracks the khipu code (41:32–41:40)
• References to pop culture (e.g., Billy Joel’s "Vienna," banh mi sandwiches)

Tone and Style

• Conversational, humorous, and pop-culture savvy
• Educational yet irreverent
• Playful banter weaves together rigorous research and offbeat trivia

Conclusion

This episode offers an entertaining yet deeply informative journey into the ways knitting and humble domestic crafts have hidden secrets in plain sight—helping turn the tides of war, fueling secret double lives, and even inspiring the earliest computers. With vivid tales, tangents, and a flair for connecting the dots across history, Ben and Noel make clear that sometimes the most unassuming objects—like a ball of yarn or an obscure website—carry the greatest secrets.