Moon Rock Heists, Part One: Lunatic Heists and Space Law

Summary

Ridiculous History Podcast

Episode: Moon Rock Heists, Part One: Lunatic Heists and Space Law

Host: Ben Bowlin & Noel Brown
Air Date: August 27, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the surprisingly dramatic history of moon rocks: from painstaking efforts to bring them safely to Earth, to the fraught quest to protect them from decay, theft, and diplomatic mishaps. Ben and Noel entertain and inform as they recount the science, logistics, and downright ridiculous heists (and accidents) that have beset humanity’s rarest space souvenirs—teasing the wildest story of all for part two.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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The Value and Vulnerability of Moon Rocks

• How Moon Rocks Arrive on Earth

  • There are only two legal ways to get moon rocks: they either come as meteorites or are collected through lunar missions ([06:54]).
  • About 2,250 lbs collected from meteorites (mostly Antarctica, Africa, Western Asia), and 842 lbs were retrieved by Apollo missions.

• Apollo Collection and Preservation

  • Apollo missions (1969–1972) brought back over 2,200 samples ([07:45]), ranging from rocks to dust.
  • Samples are stored in highly controlled, nitrogen-filled cabinets to prevent Earth’s atmosphere from contaminating (oxidizing) them—the "Moon rocks' enemy" ([09:03], [20:09]).
  • Key quote: "To the moon rocks, the Earth's atmosphere is the alien bit." – Ben ([20:05]).

• Clean Room Protocols and Low-Tech Solutions

  • NASA established some of the world’s strictest clean rooms for storage ([23:49]).
  • Even with technology, sometimes "they used a deli meat slicer with a diamond-tipped blade" to cut moon rocks ([24:55]).

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Moon Rocks and the Problem of Back Contamination

• Initial Fears About Lunar Germs
  • Early protocols erred on the side of caution: astronauts quarantined three weeks post-mission ([14:02]), and lunar samples were fed to mice and quail to test for “moon plague.”
  • “You have to walk naked as Adam through a UV light bath…and then you get to put on your street duds and exit.” – Ben ([15:11]).

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Who Owns the Moon? Space Law and Distribution

• International Treaties

  • No country owns the moon; the United Nations’ Moon Treaty (1979) formalized this ([29:01]).
  • "There's no calling dibs on the moon, right?” – Noel ([29:13]).

• Moon Rock Storage and 'Doomsday Vaults'

  • 84% of US moon rocks stored at Johnson Space Center (can "withstand 1000 years underwater"—"doomsday vault") ([29:26]).
  • 16% moved to White Sands Test Facility as a backup ([30:23]).
  • Samples are shared with global scientists and displayed at select museums for public education ([31:00]).

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Moon Rocks as Diplomatic Gifts and the Heist Setup

• Nixon’s Goodwill Moon Rocks

  • "Tricky Dicky" Nixon ordered fragments be gifted to all US states and numerous foreign leaders: 270 "Goodwill Moon Rocks" ([35:23]).
  • Around 180 of these are now missing or unaccounted for.
  • “That’s right—two-thirds are just gone. Like Keyser Soze in the night.” – Noel ([39:29]).

• Why & How They're Lost (or Stolen)

  • Many rocks were simply misplaced, trashed, or pocketed.
  • Ireland’s was accidentally sent to a landfill during a fire cleanup—now "a pot of gold under a dump" ([42:03]).
  • Malta's was outright stolen from an unsupervised exhibit—“only an amateur would just steal the rock,” says investigator Joseph Gutheinz ([46:14]).

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Joseph Gutheinz: The Moon Rock Detective

• The Indiana Jones (and Van Helsing) of Space Rock Recovery

  • Former intelligence officer Gutheinz leads the “Moon Rock Project,” tracking down lost moon rocks worldwide; 79 have been recovered so far ([41:00]).
  • Nicknamed “the Van Helsing of Luna traffickers” in the Spanish press ([49:25]).

• Notable Recoveries:

  • Honduras: Its goodwill moon rock surfaced in Florida, being sold for $5 million ([51:35]).
  • A sting named “Operation Lunar Eclipse” led to its recovery and return ([52:28]).

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Memorable Quotes

• "[Moon rocks] looked like lumps of charcoal in the bottom of a backyard barbecue grill." – Ben quoting Elbert King, first lunar sample curator ([28:19])
• "It belongs in a museum." – Ben & Noel, multiple times, channeling Indiana Jones ([43:22], [46:55])
• “Only an amateur would just steal the rock. If we are trying to sell it on the black market, you would want the full set…the plaque, the flag.” – Joseph Gutheinz via the hosts ([46:36])
• “That’s right—two-thirds are just gone. Like Keyser Soze in the night. Lost, lost, stolen, missing." – Noel ([39:29])
• On Operation Lunar Eclipse: "A tad on the nose." – Ben ([51:52])

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Notable Moments & Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | Summary/Highlights | |---------------|------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:40 | Podcast host banter/“regular man on the moon” jokes | Setting the playful, irreverent tone | | 05:14 | Introducing Thad Roberts & the NASA heist (teaser) | Tease of the notorious “Sex on the Moon” heist, saved for Part Two | | 07:45 | Apollo missions and how much lunar material we have | Fun facts: 842 lbs, careful storage, “chonky boy” Big Mully | | 09:51 | Soviet, Chinese, and US moon rock hauls | US has by far the greatest share, focus on American lunar samples | | 12:16 | Moon landing skepticism & the challenge of space | Logistical hurdles and science fiction fears about “moon plague” | | 15:11 | Lab decontamination and UV light “Adam walk” | Amusing description of early NASA quarantine protocols | | 20:09 | Oxidization: the moon rock's greatest enemy | Earth’s atmosphere as the real “alien threat” to moon rocks | | 23:49 | Clean rooms & meat slicers: NASA’s rigorous methods | “Cleaner than your house”; Lo-fi deli slicers as scientific equipment | | 29:01 | Space law and the “no one owns the Moon” principle | Unpacks the Moon Treaty and how it shapes moon rock ownership | | 35:23 | Nixon’s “goodwill moon rocks” and tracking fails | Diplomatic gifts go missing; the 2/3 loss figure established | | 41:00 | Joseph Gutheinz’ Moon Rock Project | Moon rocks detective and recovery stories (Ireland, Malta, Spain) | | 51:35 | “Operation Lunar Eclipse” | A successful sting brings back the Honduras moon rock | | 54:11 | Science spin-offs of moon missions | Velcro, “pens that write upside down,” and “applied science” | | 55:28 | Shoutouts, teasers for Part Two, banter about nicknames | End-of-episode setup and podcast in-jokes |

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Episode Tone & Style

• Playful, irreverent, nerdy: Banter about werewolves on the moon, Indiana Jones, and even moon landing denial.
• Pop culture savvy: References to Armageddon, Indiana Jones, and the Pink Floyd album.
• Meticulous but light-hearted: Deep dives into technical detail (clean rooms, moon rock chemistry), but always with a pun or joke.
• Respect for space history: Genuine awe and reverence for moon rocks, punctuated by their blasphemous theft.

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Looking Ahead

The much-teased story of Thad Roberts and the infamous “Sex on the Moon” caper will be the focus of Part Two.

"It seems like part one here is going to be kind of the history of moon rocks and the distribution of them and the sort of international affairs of it all. And this is its own little mini heist, or at the very least an MIA situation, due to the incompetence, let's just say, of old Tricky Dicky. So lest you be irritated that we don't give you the promised heist heist and the sex on the moon stuff, that's all going to happen in part two, and I think it's an absolutely banger of a place to break this." – Noel ([47:14])

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Recommended Listening

Fans of this episode might enjoy:

• Stuff They Don’t Want You To Know: For further discussions on moon landing conspiracies.
• Ridiculous Crime: For more wild true crime tales with a humorous twist.

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Credits

• Big thanks to research associate Jordan Runtaw ("Smoking moon rocks in the boondocks Runtaw," per Noel [55:28])
• Super producer: Max Williams
• Shoutouts: Eves Jeffcoat, Christopher Haciotes, AJ “Bahamas” Jacobs, Rachel Big Spinach Lance, and of course, the always-schemin' Jonathan Strickland aka The Quister.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you as always, so much for tuning in. Who's that regular man on the moon? Why, it's none other than our super producer, Mr. Max Williams.

[B]

Max Moonman Williams.

[A]

Yes. A lunar tick, if ever there was. You are Noel Brown.

[B]

Yeah, I've never been to the moon. I don't even think it's real, to be honest.

[A]

And I am Ben Bolan.

[B]

Boy, are you ever.

[A]

Oh, thanks.

[B]

Who very much believes in the reality of the moon, if I'm not mistaken.

[A]

Oh, gosh, you know, everybody has these childhood dreams of what they will be when they grow up. And once upon a time. True story, Noel. I aspired to be the first werewolf on the moon. I had it all figured out. Yeah.

[B]

How are you planning on getting. Getting lycanthropy? Getting the bite? How are you going to expose yourself to this malady?

[A]

Well, that's what they would call a sunk cost. That malign in particular. The idea was if you're always on the moon, then you're, you know, vulnerable to the various downfalls of lycanthropy. But, Noel, riddle me this. What do we get when we cross an aspiring astronaut, a whirlwind summer fling? Shout out to our research associate, the one and only Jordan, and a safe full of priceless moon rocks? What do we get?

[B]

We get ridiculous history. Ben, I think you know that.

[C]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[B]

And can I also just say that I do believe that the moon exists? I just had to make that mention because I recently met a fellow who said he did not believe that the moon existed. Not that the moon landing was faked, but that the moon itself is entirely a fraud perpetrated on the people of Earth.

[A]

Oh yeah? By whom?

[B]

Who knows? They.

[A]

Ah, capital they. Capital T they.

[B]

All right, we got a wild ride for you today, folks. Combines some elements of a heist. You know, we like love a heist. Some history, some science fact, maybe a little science fiction will sprinkle in there just for the hell of it. But man, Jordan really found us a dinger, as they said in the 1920s.

[A]

Yes, yes. 23 skidoo on you. Jordan Research Associate God, that guy's a legend. I love hanging out with him. No, Jordan has introduced us to a guy named Thad Roberts. Now Thad is very good at physics and Thor. Thad is also super in love with his girlfriend and he really wants to impress her. He borrows a jeep. He wears a scuba suit he gets sort of into shenanigans. And this is also a story about moon rocks.

[B]

Yeah, it is. Thad and his, what you might call a ragtag crew of interns. JR Jordan Runtog, our boy, describes them as horny interns. We'll get to that. Pulled off what should have been the perfect caper for this, our space age. And it does involve stealing and attempting to fence lunar rocks, which triggered a manhunt sting operation and ended up with some serious jail time. So strap in, no pun intended, for Sex on the Moon. A tale of romance, ambition, federal charges, and geology that's gonna. It's going to rock your very ridiculous world.

[A]

Get it? Rock.

[B]

That was Jordan's joke.

[A]

I thought that was cool. There are only two ways to get rocks from the moon, okay? And only one of those ways is legal. Either they come to you on Earth, or you go to them via something like the Apollo program and purposely pick them up. So with that former definition, scientists here on Earth, without leaving the planet, have collected something north of £2,250 worth of lunar material that just sort of crashed on Earth's surface at some point in time as meteorites. And most of these things are going to be recovered from Antarctica, northern Africa, deserts in Western Asia, or what you would call the Middle east.

[B]

Remote, mainly inhospitable regions. The rest were obtained that second way, which we'll call the hard way, from the surface of the very real moon itself. The first and biggest batch were recovered during, like you said, Ben, America's Apollo program. And how appropriate that I am joined in my podcast studio by none other than my very sweet little space boy, Apollo, the toy poodle. So Apollo gives you a little puppy wave. They were the astronauts that is able to bring back a whopping 2,200 samples weighing in at 842 pounds over the course of six missions between the years 1969 and 1972. And these moon fragments, which span the geological spectrum from various sizes and grades of material, rocks to pebbles to sand to dust, are stored very gingerly in controlled, highly controlled situations, including nitrogen filled cabinets at NASA's Lunar Curation Lab, which is a thing in order to avoid contamination and oxidization from Earth's atmosphere, not to mention to potentially contain some space germs that people were real worried about for a while. But more on that later.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And the oxidation, as we'll see, is the primary concern. Note again what we're saying here, folks. Again, it's £2,250 worth of moon Stuff that landed on Earth. And it's 842 pounds of stuff humans provably brought back from the Apollo program. The largest moon rock ever recovered from the Apollo missions is a 26 pound chonky boy. So chonky that we call it Big Mully, named in honor of the geology team leader of Apollo 16, Bill Muhlberger. There's another.

[B]

Molly to his friends, no doubt.

[A]

Well, big Mully to his friends. Yeah. There is also the Genesis rock, which is believed to be one of the oldest things humans know about from the surface of the moon. It's somewhere between 4 and 5 billion years old, which we acknowledge is a heck of a margin.

[B]

Yeah. And let's not forget about the Soviets. They went up there too. They actually sent a dog up there quite cruelly. Poor little Laika who didn't make it. Back in the early 70s, a trio of unmanned Soviet robotic probes, dogless, thankfully, brought back 10.6 ounces of material over the course of three missions. Not nearly as impressive. No shade on the Soviets. They were definitely, you know, in the space race. But this is not quite the haul that the Apollo mission brought back. More recently, in the 2020s, we've got China entering the chat with two unmanned probes bringing back around 8 pounds of lunar material, including the very first from the storied dark side of the moon, made famous by the Pink Floyd album of note. Of course, it's the only place it was made famous by. That's not true. But the U.S. as we've mentioned, and as was probably pretty clear by now, possesses the vast majority of all this moon stuff. And for the purposes of this episode, we're going to mainly be staying in.

[A]

The U.S. yes, because we will get in trouble if we mention the Soviet or Chinese lunar possessions. Also, Laika got to space but didn't get to the moon. Because getting to the moon is very, very difficult. Max, if you could give us some like, difficult music, something that gives us a sense of epic adventure. Perfect.

[B]

Perhaps a little advers, a little bit of tension there. I love it.

[A]

Yeah, perfect. So getting to the moon is already a crazy endeavor. It is 238,900 miles from the Earth to the lunar surface and back. And both of those points, point A and point Z are moving the entire time.

[B]

Right. And if you hear from people in your day to day lives who maybe are skeptical about the moon landing being real, something that we've covered at length on, stuff they don't want you to know, a lot of the reasoning behind that is the absolute mammoth task that is going to and from the moon. The logistics of it being bonkers and what was available and possible in the 1960s. It just seems sometimes on first glance that this was a way tall order for the technology of the time. But I do come down on the side of, you know, the moon landing was real. Just for the record, but just putting that out there.

[A]

All right, well, it's good to dream, bro. No, we, we all know the moon landings were real. There is provable evidence you can see with a proper telescope, right? A consumer level telescope, as Noel said, check out stuff they don't want you to know. We dive into in depth to that. And what's interesting about what you're saying here, Noel, is that if we look back in the 1960s, the boffins already had a very good grasp of what we would call germ theory. The danger of pathogens, the danger of bacteria, microorganisms, viruses. So the eggheads are asking, the moonheads are asking, what have we. What if we land on the lunar surface and we run into an outbreak situation? What if we find something small that hitches the ride back to Earth and gets released in the ecosystem and it's an alien invasive species?

[B]

And this is maybe the sprinkling of science fiction that we promised this idea of a moon plague these alien pathogens brought. Back to your point, Ben, hitching a ride on the old Spirit space shuttle back to Earth, potentially causing some sort of catastrophic, potentially even extinction level event. The idea of back contamination was the same reason that the astronauts in the first three Apollo missions were kept in quarantine for three weeks upon their return. NASA spent quite a bit of money on this real or imagined problem. Around 7.8 million or 80 million, adjusted for inflation, in the form of an 86,000 square foot lunar receiving laboratory at the Johnson Space center there in Houston as a place to quarantine the materials and the astronauts. This is also where the samples were processed and studied. And one somewhat ethically dubious experiment that was carried out there involved feeding grains of lunar dust to mice, quail. Quail, interesting. And other life forms who were then monitored for any ill effects.

[A]

Thankfully, yeah, everything worked out. You know, people, right, Everything's great. Scientists were in fact astonished at good results. And they said, look, if you put plants in lunar soil, they grow better, they thrive better than they would in Earth soil. However, we're still very concerned about this idea of back contamination. So if you're a worker at the Lunar Receiving Laboratory at the Johnson Space center, you have to do the whole 12 monkeys thing. You have to be decontaminated. You got to strip off all your lab clothes, you got a shower, and then you can't put on your clothing right after you shower. Instead you have to walk naked as Adam through a ultraviolet light bath and then you get to put on your street duds and exit. Ultimately, all of this effort was, let's say it this way, it was an error on the side of caution. It turned out there was no chemical evidence of life in any form from these lunar samples, so there was no insidious germ microbe, bacteria or virus.

[B]

And I think we all aren't particularly mad at the idea of erring on the side of caution. There were a lot of unknowns in these early days, so good on you Science for looking out for the rest of us here back on Earth.

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[B]

Man, Jordan headlined this next section with a fabulous phrase which is protect the rocks at all costs. The other challenge for NASA at this time was protecting those rocks at all costs from deterioration. These were very important artifacts, very valuable artifacts, very rare deterioration that is due to the oxygen in Earth's atmosphere. As we mentioned, oxidization is the enemy of the moon rock. The humble moon rock exposure to air would cause these rocks to instantly start to deteriorate through that process of oxidization, which would both damage the rock and make it much less scientifically viable, if not entirely useless because it was effective. Effectively contaminated at that point.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Because to the moon rocks, the Earth's atmosphere is the alien bit. Right?

[A]

I like that. Yeah. Because the, the idea here is that the oxidization would break down the chemical components, right? The, the overall mixtape of whatever lunar material means it would break it down into an earthly thing. Just a collection of stuff you can find on the planet today.

[B]

So wouldn't be special anymore, Right.

[A]

It's not Christmas every if it's Christmas every day, the scientists say. So they want to keep these samples chemically identical. Right. Control for variables chemically identical to what they were when they were on the moon. So they put in this quite strict, robust procedure for recovery. Let's say we're all astronauts, folks. You, Max, Noel, and yours truly. We are. We are at the moon. We are trying to get our moon stuff and then we get the orders from mission control and Mission Control tells us the following. They say, look, you got to take your fiberglass bag out with you on your moonwalk and then you got to put your stuff in there. And then you got to take your fiberglass bag and you got to put it in a vacuum sealed metal container. And. And if we are the astronauts talking to mission control, we're going to be complaining. We'll say this smells like gunpowder. This is a weird vibe.

[B]

I'm picturing these vacuum sealed containers again just with the sprinkling of sci fi as being those kind of cylinder type things that almost look like a giant thermos with the twisty top on it. And it makes a really satisfying, you know, when you enclose it, perhaps some dry ice type steam comes out, you.

[A]

Know, I love it. Yeah. This is also the reason they are reporting this smell or us in this scenario. Shout out the quizzter. We're reporting this smell of gunpowder in the spacecraft because the moon dust is on our suits and it is oxidizing when exposed to an Earth like atmosphere.

[B]

Can't save all the particles. We're going to lose that dust to oxidization. But they did the best they could.

[A]

And I love that you're pointing out that awesome thermos idea with a canister because there is a bigger canister at play. We could say when this lunar material makes it back here to Terra, the fancy name for Earth. So instead of having a giant thermos, which would be an awesome idea, I'm laughing. I'm picturing a gigantic thermos somewhere in a space center. All right, so instead of building a giant thermos, there are clean rooms that essentially function the same way. They are some of the strictest clean rooms in the world. They have a small army of air filters. And these air filters ensure the room contains no more than, get this folks, 100 particles larger than 0.5 microns per cubic feet of air. No offense to anybody living in the fanciest place imaginable, this room is cleaner than your house.

[B]

Oh yeah. I mean, in comparison, typical indoor air might have as many as a million particles per cubic foot, likely more. So for this clean room, folks entering are required to wear contamination suits or decontamination suits rather. But even with these added precautions, the samples are still not handled directly. Researchers prepare the rocks in a vacuum sealed cabinet through those kind of gloves you might see in like a movie like Outbreak, you know, where you're through the holes. Yeah, of course. Multi layered gloves. High purity nitrogen is then pumped in to keep the Samples completely free of moisture. Some of the practices are a little less high tech. They used some very commercially available like kitchen gadgets actually to slice these rocks, to bisect them. A Hobart Deli meat slicing machine, a little bit modded out, outfitted with a diamond edged blade.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Hobart Deli Meat Slicer. Pay extra for the diamond. Also, I think Noel and I just forgot we are an audio podcast because folks, when we were agreeing about the gloves, we were talking about the glass encased thing that has you put gloves on yourself up to your forearms or wearing your suit obviously. And then you put, put those gloves into a series of apertures that have their own gloves built into the container. I just didn't want us to miss that because we are an audio well.

[B]

And the visual that you missed maybe was Ben and I both reaching our arms out and wiggling our fingers at each other. That's the visual there. Another lo fi technique I guess you could call it, would be just cracking them open with the old Rockhampton you.

[A]

Get in situations, you know what I mean? And this is the issue here. NASA went through a lot of headaches, a lot of bureaucratic hoops to construct this facility and to establish these procedures, which by the way, would later inform our friends in Soviet Russia and in China. NASA built the way to encounter this stuff.

[B]

Can I just say, I think it's incredible that they, you know, with all this money, they did not even need to invent a new thing. Cause Hobart already did it with their meat slicer. They were just like, nah, it just needs a different blade. Are you aware, Ben, of the audio commentary for the DVD of the seminal 1990s apocalyptic space movie Armageddon?

[A]

I am lightly aware. I have not listened to it.

[B]

Well, I've only heard clips. But the one that always makes the news, the Internet, I guess, is Ben Affleck did his own audio commentary. And you may remember a famous scene where the space boffins kind of face off with the drill guys. You know, the burly rough and tumble drill team headed up by what's his name, Bruce Willis. And Bruce Willis just dresses them down saying, you don't know a thing about drilling and you did it all wrong. This, that and the other. When they're presented with this space drill that the NASA guys have come up with and he's just like, Ben Affleck just finds this whole scenario completely implausible. And says he said to the director, Jerry Bruckheimer, wouldn't it be easier to train astronauts to drill than to train drillers to be astronauts. And Jerry Bruckheimer's response? Shut the fuck up.

[A]

Yes, I remember that clip. Also, our Bruce Willis character here is probably going to be the first lunar sample curator. A real job assigned to a gentleman named Elbert. A king. A king. He gets this first batch of moon rocks. He's supposed to curate these lunar samples. He is not impressed. In 1989, he says the moment was truly history. But there was little we could observe or say. We counted the rocks, we described the size and shape of each piece, put.

[B]

Them in the manifest, just write them down.

[A]

But they looked like lumps of charcoal in the bottom of a backyard barbecue grill. So Albert is being a bit of a buskill. He's super not impressed. But this is super big for history because since 1979, the majority of what we can call American moon rocks have been stored at the Lunar Sample Laboratory facility over at the Johnson Space center out in Houston.

[B]

I do think it's funny to make the distinction of like, you know, American versus Russian versus Chinese moon rocks, because they're all moon rocks, y', all, and the moon doesn't belong to any of us.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Despite that flag we planted, you know.

[A]

Oh, oh, come on. Fellow vexillologists in the crowd, studiers of flags. It's fun to put a flag on things.

[B]

Everybody likes to put a flag on things, you know, But I'm just saying, I think it is widely understood that no one. There's no calling dibs on the moon, right?

[A]

Yeah, right. You're referring specifically to the Moon Treaty from the United nations, or sometimes called the Moon Agreement. It was created on December 18, 1979, which is why 84% or about 600 pounds for everybody. Keeping note here, 84% or 600 pounds of American Moon rocks have been stored at this place in Houston. It's supposed to be like a doomsday vault. It can withstand 1000 years of being underwater. But this is where we get to the reason this episode is a two part series. Noel, riddle me this. Where are the remaining 16% of these American moon rocks?

[B]

I'm so glad you asked, Ben. In the 1970s, NASA adopted the don't put all your eggs in one basket approach, which I think we all can get behind. It's good to diversify. And secretly moved a 150 pound portion of this collection to another installation for safekeeping in the dead of night. Since 2002, they've been stored at the White Sands Test Facility in New Mexico, which you may be familiar with. Discussions of nuclear tests. Isn't that right, Ben? Am I remembering the correct details from history on the White Sands Test Facility?

[A]

You nailed it. You nailed it out there in New Mexico. Yeah. So over the years, samples of these rocks have been sort of farmed out or contracted out to a bunch of research teams across the planet. And these research teams are equal eggheads and boffins themselves. They're studying everything they can learn about these samples. Some of them have also been put into museums. Indiana Jones, it belongs in a museum. You know, you can find. Yeah, you can find them displayed in the American Museum of Natural History in New York, which I know we both love. You can find them in the Houston Museum of Natural Science. And another thing that we always recommend, the Griffith Observatory out there in Los Angeles. Gosh, I love that place.

[B]

I love it, too. They've got a really cool pendulum that kind of helps you visualize the rotation of the Earth. They have a Tesla coil out there that was featured in one of the OG Frankenstein films. And a really, really cool old school classic planetarium show that is often given by aspiring actors who really give it their. And you gotta love that. It's also just a great hike up from the park at the foot of that climb up and up to the observatory itself. It's a really wonderful place. Big fan.

[A]

And we also have a pretty great planetarium here in our fair metropolis of Atlanta, Georgia. Please note the folks narrating the planetarium over at Fern bank are not aspiring actors, they are aspiring astronomers. And they're very weird people. We say that with great affection. Look, if you're traveling through one of these museums, you will see very small lunar fragments. They're going to be in vacuum cases, they're going to be embedded in resin. If you go to the Smithsonian National Air and Space museum in Washington, D.C. you still can't, which is free. While you still can, you're gonna see one of the few moon rocks on the planet that people can touch. You can walk up to it and you can put your finger upon a thing from space.

[B]

Indeed, we're talking about the Apollo scientist, Farouk El Baz, who is inspired by his childhood pilgrimage to Mecca, the holy place where he himself was able to lay hands on a. I mean, I don't know. Moon rocks to some might be considered a sacred relic, but in this case it was the black stone there at Mecca, the most important site to the Islamic faith. It is believed to have been sent down from the heavens, which, I don't know, it's kind of poetic. There's a poetic parallel there. I mean, in a way, moon rocks are sent down from the heavens. I'm behind this.

[A]

Yeah. And this is why for many of us fellow fans of space and space stuff, the idea of stealing a moon rock might seem heinous, might seem blasphemous.

[B]

Yeah, it's a bit of like a national treasure type heist. You know, we're gonna steal the. What is it, the Declaration of Independence? What do they steal? That's what it is, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you're very right, Ben. There is something a little bit blasphemous, especially if you subscribe, as El Bas seems to have, to this notion of moon rocks in some way being of the heavens, of the celestial bodies, and something that deserves a little more respect than our earthly rocks.

[A]

And this is where we encounter the great crime. Shout out to our fellow rude dudes at ridiculous crime. If you like us, you'll love them. All right, so there's this guy named Richard. And this guy named Richard becomes President.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that guy. Yeah. Blame old Tricky Dicky for a handful of things, including perhaps the moon rock heist. At the very least, it happened on his watch.

[A]

Yeah. So moon rocks have gone missing. And a lot of this is due to the presidential administration of. Of Tricky Dick, as he said, Noel, or Richard Nixon. He was in office. He was POTUS during all of the Apollo mission landings. And given that the moon rocks are technically property of the US Government, our buddy President Nixon has the final say over how they can or cannot be distributed. So during his administration, our buddy Nixon puts out these orders, and he orders fragments of the rocks from Apollo 11 and Apollo 17 specifically to be gifted to representatives of each of the 50 states of the United States. And then he also gifts these to hundreds of foreign dignitaries around the world. They call them Goodwill moon rocks.

[B]

It's like getting a piece of the Berlin Wall at a gift shop. Or a little fancier than that. There's a finite supply of both, technically. But I'm also a little skeptical as to whether those pieces they sell as fridge magnets are in fact from the Wall. So of the 270 like you said, Ben, so called goodwill moon rocks that were given away under Nixon's watch, around 180 remain unaccounted for.

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[C]

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[D]

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[B]

That's right, two thirds are just gone. Like keyser Soze in the night. Lost, Lost, stolen, missing.

[A]

Yeah. And these are also, by the way, folks, these are very small samples. They're less than a gram. So we're not defending the fact that they are lost. We are telling you they are easy to lose. Right?

[B]

Totally. And I mean, I guess I don't quite understand. Is there an issue here? These were given as like little keepsakes. There was no, like tracking as to what the dignitaries did with them after the fact. Right. Were they supposed to check in periodically as to whether their moon rock still was on their mantle or they made it into a keychain or something?

[A]

Right, yeah. How do you track it? That's a pretty good point, honestly. And it's interesting to look at the Soviet version of the matter, which we may do in a later episode perhaps on stuff they don't want you to know.

[B]

I guess it was up to the origin countries of the dignitaries as to how they would be. It was more, maybe I'm oversimplifying it or being hyperbolic. It wasn't like they were meant to be. They were meant to be a gift to those countries. And then it was up to the dignitaries and said countries to decide how they might be displayed, whether or not they were worthy of that, et cetera. So we'll get into a little rundown of some of the tales, at least the intro, interesting ones of those missing moon rocks around the world.

[A]

Yeah, but also it was Nixon and Nixon was not above greasing the wheels of geopolitics, you know what I mean? So he was sliding some stuff on the side. We actually, we know in retrospect how many estimated pieces old boy gave away, but he probably did a lot of stuff off the books. And luckily we know folks like Joseph Gunthuis who has made it a mission to get these lunar rocks, lunar material, we should say, these small shards from the moon back to U.S. management. And he's not playing around. He founded something called the Moon Rock Project and he's an ex intelligence officer.

[B]

Absolutely. He always gets his man. And we haven't gotten to a point that maybe I've glazed over a little bit the monetary value of these items. These are not, you know, paltry little trinkets. These things have, you know, cash money value to them. And we're going to get to that. To date, he and his associates have tracked down 79 of the missing rocks. And I guess my earlier point, many of which were just found willy nilly in like memory boxes, personal possessions of public officials who either forgot they had them one of the most precious substances on the planet, as Jordan points out, or believed that they were the rightful owners, or so they claimed. So Ireland. Here's a case of Moon Rock on display in Ireland was accidentally thrown away after a 1977 fire at the observatory where it was held. The lunar sample was caught up amid the rubble and taken to a local landfill, where it apparently remains to this day. The investigator we mentioned, Gunthights Go was has described it as a pot of gold under a dump. You know, this reminds me of. Reminds me of that guy that lost.

[A]

All the bitcoin hard drive in the landfill.

[B]

He finally just gave that search up after much ado, trying to buy the.

[A]

The.

[B]

The dump and everything. Apparently it was like a billion dollars worth essentially by today's value of bitcoin. Want to talk about Malta? I know you're a big Malta head.

[A]

Are you a Malta?

[B]

Of course.

[A]

So shout out to Joe, by the way. He's got a very Indiana Jones approach. This is the last time I'll say it. Wait, this is the second time I'll say it. I'll say it one more time in this series. Indiana Jones, it belongs in a museum.

[B]

You know what's funny? One of my favorite podcasts, Blank Check with Griffin and David, they recently did all of Steven Spielberg's kind of of mid to later career films. They do filmographies and they did all the Indiana Jones movies. And they kind of pointed out how that whole it belongs in a museum attitude kind of falls by the wayside in terms of Indy's motivations as the series progresses. He seems a lot less interested as time goes on in the whole, like, you know, preserving things for posterity and the greater good of the nation and science a little more focused on like making that money.

[A]

And with that, we do have to say the Spielberg Indiana Jones films are actually pretty good.

[B]

They are.

[A]

And it's even the bad ones. What's the one you don't care for?

[B]

Well, the Crystal Skull, I think is pretty universally considered to be the worst one. The most recent one about the. What's it called? Antikythera mechanism situation.

[A]

Dial of Destiny. Dial of Destiny.

[B]

People were a little iffy on that one, but I think it's more beloved than. And the Crystal Skull people were just really mad about Shia LaBeouf swinging from vines like a. Like an orangutan.

[A]

What's your favorite Indiana Jones film?

[B]

I think my favorite is the Last Crusade. I really dig the relationship, the father son relationship in that one. I think it's it's really nice.

[A]

They named the dog Indiana. Yes, exactly. Very well done. So it's May 18, 2004. Malta has a goodwill moon rock from the Nixon administration. This moon rock is stolen from their Museum of Natural History. Their Museum of Natural History, as our pal Josh Clark can confirm, has no security cameras. It has no real security, like custodians even. I think they had one janitor at the time. But they had a lot of budget cuts, funding shortages. Whomever this thief may be, they left behind the plaque and the Maltese flag that the Apollo astronauts had taken to the moon with them. So this is where our NASA investigator Joe comes in and he says, look at this. He's so irritated at this point. He says, only an amateur would just steal the rock, because if we are trying to sell it on the black market, you would want the full set. You'd want the plaque, you'd want the flag. This would authenticate this thing that a lot of people who have not been to the moon would otherwise assume is just regular rock and dirt from Earth. And so our buddy Joe goes back and forth with the authorities in Malta, and he says, look, just tell them, whomever it may be, just tell them, no questions asked, drop off our little shard of moon rock. Just give it back.

[B]

It belongs in a museum.

[A]

I'm not.

[B]

I'm. So I said it. You said you wouldn't say it. I didn't say I wasn't gonna say it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. This is perfect. And as we record today, August 25, 2025, the missing Malta goodwill moon rock has yet to be rec.

[B]

Can I just say, I don't know that we didn't really line this up. And it seems to be the way that this is going. It seems like part one here is going to be kind of the history of moon rocks and the distribution of them and the sort of international affairs of it all. And this is its own little mini heist, or at the very least an MIA situation, due to the incompetence, let's just say, of old Tricky Dicky. So lest you be irritated that we don't give you the promised heist heist and the sex on the moon stuff, that's all going to happen in part two, and I think it's an absolutely banger of a place to break this.

[A]

Absolutely agreed. We also want to tell you two things before we end some more. As you said, incompetence. Spain. While we're in Europe, let's stay in Spain. Spain had a moon rock from Apollo 11, and it went missing because it was gifted to a guy you'll recognize from earlier. Francisco Franco.

[B]

Not a good dude. Not a good dude.

[A]

What did Norm MacDonald say? The more I learn about this guy, the less I like him.

[B]

Yeah, that does track. A bit of a dictator and a bit of a dick. Its current whereabouts are unknown. Franco's grandson did claim, however, that the family never intended to sell it and suggested that it was just likely a bit of an oopsie and that it was lost. He said, as my mother is a woman with many things in many houses. Weird flex, but okay. In a move or redecorating a room, in the end, it must have gotten lost or bad. But also sorry. Not sorry is the vibe I'm getting there. Said that in 2009 in an interview with El Mundo.

[A]

Yes. And look, our guy has been searching for leads on this. Maybe he thinks private collector in Switzerland, where there are a lot of people who collect a lot of weird things. He got a nickname, Joe did in the Spanish press, and they said Joseph Gunthuys is the Van Helsing of Luna traffickers.

[B]

Now, that's interesting, the Van Helsing, because that implies, to your earlier point, werewolfism or vampirism or some other kind of ism. I would have called him maybe more the Sherlock Holmes of Moonrockery.

[A]

Right. With his Deer Hunter or Deer Stalker.

[B]

Yeah, and his pipe and his cocaine. Dude, have I told you this? I've been recently listening to the entire works of Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes. It's a lot, by the way, and it's read by Stephen Fry, who we love from comedy and, you know, Britain. Sherlock Holmes did a lot of drugs.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He was, like, shooting up morphine between his toes and snorting that cocaine. I mean, I had no idea. And I think the thing that I'm most tickled by every time it happens, it must just be an anachronistic expression of the time when someone talks about somebody exclaiming something, they refer to it as he ejaculated.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I just. I'm a child. It makes me titter every time I hear it.

[A]

I have encountered something similar. Re listening to, like, I've read Blood Meridigan by Cormac McCarthy several times. He would say that that is exactly.

[B]

The kind of anachronistic biblical language he.

[A]

Loves to use it in an audiobook version made me laugh aloud to the point where the folks on the plane had questions about me. But those questions were answered. We made it back to the States. We're going to end part One of Sex on the Moon and the Great Moon Heist on a happy note. So back in the 1990s, there's this guy named Al Alan Rosen, and he's a business dude in Florida, and he goes to the black market and he somehow has possession of the goodwill moon rock gifted to the nation of Honduras from the Apollo 17 mission. And he says, this is going to be sold for $5 million.

[B]

And.

[A]

And Uncle Sam did not like it. So much so that we set up a sting operation in a burst of creativity, get this. We named it Operation Lunar Eclipse. A tad on the nose. A tad on the nose.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I get it, I get it. You know, but isn't that usually the case with these kind of operations? It doesn't seem like creativity is always the strong suit of them. What name name these types of stings?

[A]

You know, I. I still fantasize about the idea of having a job where you are the person who just names secret operations. It feels so cool. It's like. It's like the world of automotive, right? Like, what if your job is just to name vehicles, right? Like, how do you do that anyway?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think a lot of it's done by committee. So Operation Moonrock did yield some results in that the rock in question was recovered and the origin of how it was received, or how it got its way to Rosen, was that he purchased it from the retired Honduran Colonel Roberto Ugorcia Ugarte, who sold it to Rosen after disguising its origin. He was a little dishonest about how he came upon this moon rock. So. Joseph Gundheim posing undercover. God, this guy is such a boss.

[A]

So cool.

[B]

He led the ops with support from agencies including the U.S. postal Inspection Service. Never forget, never forget or underestimate, rather, the US Postal Inspection Service as well as customs, they also had funding. You remember Ross Perot? Haven't heard that name in a minute. Forgot he had a first initial H. Ross Perot. Little weird little guy. Weird little dude who ran for president and was famously mocked on snl, I believe by Dana Carvey, who was the Ross Perot.

[A]

The H is for Henry, by the way.

[B]

Okay, Important, important deet. So, after a five year legal battle, the moon rock was in fact returned to Honduras in 2004 and is now on display at the Centro Interactivo Chimanique in Tegucigalpa, which is, I think, one of my favorite names of a place.

[A]

That's what you're gonna say when you show up. You're gonna walk in and you're gonna say this is one of my favorites favorite names of a place, Tegucigalpa.

[B]

Does it get much better? Well, it's just as silly silly as a Tegucigalpa.

[A]

What could be better than this? We'll tell you right now. It's going to be part two of our continuing series of ridiculous heist involving lunar material. Now, the exploration of of the solar system goes back and forth, right? But it's a very human endeavor. It's incredibly important. For anybody who would like to argue that space exploration is somehow a waste of time, please remember that this applied science getting folks into orbit and indeed to the moon. It provides a lot of scientific breakthroughs that help your life today. Things like Velcro or tank hang or pens that write upside down. And so with this, we're going to call it a day. We've got to also call our pal Joe and get up to date with him on the moon rock search. We're going to save our Indiana Jones references for episode two. For now, we want to give a big thanks to our research associate, Jordan Runtaw. Our super producer, Max Williams. Noel, do we have a good nickname or a moniker for Jordan?

[B]

Well, he's Jordan Smoking moon rocks in the boondocks Run talk.

[A]

I like the rhyme for sure.

[B]

It's not mine. It's from the rapper Shad, the God in the song Moon rocks in the parlance of hip hop culture is refers to a particular strain, a very, very, very highly potent marijuana.

[A]

No. I'm learning so much. Also thanks to Eve's Jeff Goat Christopher Haciotes here in spirit thanks to AJ Bahamas Jacobs, we've got some guests coming up. Do we want to brag a little bit about them?

[B]

I think we must. We do have a returning guest appearance from ridiculous Historia alum Rachel Big Spinach Lance. Talking about some underwater explosions, which I'm quite excited about.

[A]

Yes. And we are contractually required to say, with great reluctance, shout out to Jonathan Strickland, AKA the Quister.

[B]

He would have loved this episode. That boy's always high on moon rocks. I'm kidding. He's never touched the stuff. He's probably allergic. He would probably kill him instantly.

[A]

He's stealing moon rocks right now.

[B]

I know it's true. He is much more of a despicable me type steal the moon and all the rocks type figure rather than smoking them.

[A]

So with great thanks, we are going to continue on our exploration of moon heist. We hope that you will join us very soon, unless you are the Quisr oh yeah.

[B]

We will see you next time folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite show.

[G]

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