Moon Rock Heists, Part Two: The Romantic Misadventures of Thad Roberts

Summary

Ridiculous History – "Moon Rock Heists, Part Two: The Romantic Misadventures of Thad Roberts"

Podcast: Ridiculous History
Hosts: Ben Bowlin & Noel Brown
Release Date: August 28, 2025
Episode Theme:
This episode dives into the most infamous moon rock heist in history, conducted by NASA intern Thad Roberts in 2002. The hosts explore the story’s bizarre details—romance, misplaced genius, sloppy criminality, and the legacy of one of NASA’s strangest thefts. Packed with pop culture tangents, comedic banter, and hard truths, Ben and Noel trace how love, delusions of grandeur, and bad decision-making led to one of history’s weirdest scientific crimes.

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Main Theme Overview

The focus is on Thad Roberts—aspiring astronaut and NASA intern—who, driven by a dubious blend of romance and ego, masterminded the theft of priceless moon rocks from NASA’s Johnson Space Center. The hosts peel back the layers of his motivations, the heist’s wild details, the aftermath for everyone involved, and touch on the cultural impact and ongoing mysteries surrounding lunar samples.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: From Lost Rocks to Audacious Heists

• Recap of Part One (00:49): Previous episode covered the history and accidental loss of "Goodwill Moon Rocks" given by Nixon.
• Transition to Heists: "Now in Part two, we're getting to something we and our pal Jordan like to call sex on the moon." (Ben, 01:20)

2. The Players: Who is Thad Roberts?

• Background:

  • "25 year old intern at NASA's elite Cooperative Education program. Orchestrates boldly...the theft of 17 pounds of Apollo Mars moon rocks valued...at between 7 million and 21 million US dollars. Plus for good measure, a Martian meteorite." (Noel, 04:42)
  • Academic overachiever: "Triple degree in physics, geology and geophysics," licensed pilot and scuba diver. (Noel, 09:08)
  • Outsider in NASA's program; upbringing as a Mormon, shunned after premarital sex, left insecure and seeking belonging. (Noel, 09:43)

• Accomplices:

  • Tiffany Fowler: Fellow intern, romantic interest.
  • Shea Sauer: Another NASA intern.

3. A Love Story—Sort Of

• Roberts moves in with Tiffany weeks after meeting: "When I met Tiffany, says Roberts, we talked for 14 hours straight..." (Ben, 10:23)
• Thad frames the heist as a romantic gesture: "'Baby, I'd give you the moon. It would be a romantic start to our relationship.'" (Ben, 12:33)
• But later reporting reveals: "Thad Roberts came up with this plan...months before the meet cute at night on the beach. She's just kind of convenient for this, you know?" (Ben, 13:04)

4. Motivations and Delusions

• Roberts’ self-justification: "In my own head, stealing something wasn't the way I looked at it...We were going to live just the small kind of lifestyle, but fun science that might change the world, you know?" (Ben, 13:49)
• Misplaced love: "I don't think that kind of connection that people really desire requires much time." (Noel, 14:41)
• Hosts’ skepticism: "A little bit sociopathic." (Ben, 13:36)
• Quote from author Ben Mezrich: "Here's this kid who basically does a 100 yard sprint through that gray area right into the black area." (Ben, 07:29)

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5. The Heist: Details and Absurdity

• How They Did It:
  • Used work IDs and codes, rewired surveillance (Ben, 05:41)
  • "They put on neoprene bodysuits so that they won't emit heat...bring along breathing paraphernalia from Thad Roberts scuba gear." (Ben, 22:10)
  • They “simply load the entire 601 pound safe onto a dolly” when unable to crack it. (Noel, 23:34)
• Cinematic Touches & Bumbling Genius:
  • "They got, I'll say it, absolutely lunar balls...positively cinematic." (Ben, 05:41)
  • "This was literally sagging the suspension of the Jeep." (Noel, 24:06)
• Almost the Perfect Crime:
  • "They left no fingerprints, no hair, no security footage...They pulled off the perfect heist." (Ben, 24:51)
  • Drove away, unnoticed for 48 hours.

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6. Sex on the Moon—Literally

• "They drive to the Houston suburb of Clear Lake...once they finally cracked open the safe, which took them a while, he knew what they had to do. He says, I take some of the moon rocks and I put them underneath the blanket on the bed, and then we made love." (Noel quoting Roberts, 25:28)

Memorable moment:

• "He said it was more about the symbol of what we were doing, basically having sex on the moon. And it's more uncomfortable than not. But it wasn't about the comfort at that point." (Ben, 25:35)

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7. The (Very Bad) Fencing Operation

• Listing on a mineral website for $2,000–$8,000 a gram. (Ben, 26:55)
• Used the pseudonym “Orb Robinson”: "Are you kidding me?" (Ben, 27:51)
• Belgian mineral collector Axel Emmerman asks for details; FBI becomes involved.
• Orb’s red-flag email: "As you well know, it is illegal to sell Apollo lunar rocks in the United States...However, I must be cautious that this deal is handled with the utmost delicacy in that I am not publicly exposed." (Noel, 29:12)
• Hosts roast the idiocy: "Buddy, buddy, buddy. I mean, tell on yourself, why don't you?" (Noel, 29:56)

8. The FBI Sting and Arrest

• Undercover FBI agents pose as buyers; meet at an Italian restaurant on the Apollo 11 landing anniversary. (Ben, 30:39)
• Roberts jokes, "I'm just hoping you don't have a wire on you." The agent did. (Ben, 31:01)
• Thad, Tiffany, and Gordon McWhorter busted on the spot with the goods in their hotel room; 40 armed federal agents involved. (Ben, 32:52)
• Third accomplice, Shea Sauer, arrested later that day.

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9. The Aftermath: Prison—and Bad Justifications

• Parents refuse bail; Thad spends 16 months awaiting trial. (Ben, 37:34)
• FBI finds he also stole fossils from the Utah Museum of Natural History.
• Judge Ann C. Conway calls him "a master manipulator," doubles the sentencing: "knocks him up for eight years in the federal pen." (Ben, 39:04)
• Accomplices:
  • Tiffany Fowler & Shea Sauer: Cooperate, receive much lighter sentences (house arrest, probation, community service). (Ben, 39:55)

Notable post-heist quotes:

• McWhorter: "I used the Internet for two hours and got six years. I'm not a terrorist. I'm a college kid who got caught up in a glorified fraternity prank." (Ben, 41:36)
• Thad Roberts (on his regrets): "From experience, I can say that there are more appropriate and more productive ways to come face to face with our magnificent insignificance than stealing a piece of the moon. Whatever you do, don't repeat my mistakes." (Noel quoting Roberts, 46:15)

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10. Consequences & Final Notes

• All involved are essentially blacklisted from the sciences.
• Thad writes a 500-page theoretical physics thesis in prison: "Einstein's Intuition Visualiz Dimensional Framework of Nature, An Introduction to Quantum Space Theory." (Ben, 45:04)
• On his prospects for ever becoming an astronaut: "Anything’s possible. I think I’m gonna still make a run for space. The private industry is still maybe going on…I can pick up a moon rock legally this time. One that I can keep, put on my mantle and not have to keep it a secret." (Ben quoting Roberts, 47:20)
• Hosts remain skeptical of Thad (and poke at private space billionaires as potentially equally megalomaniacal).

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Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ben Mezrich quote on Thad Roberts:
  "I've always been writing about these genius kids who live in that gray area between right and wrong. And here's this kid who basically does a 100 yard sprint through that gray area right into the black area." (Ben, 07:29)

• Thad Roberts’ romantic self-justification:
  "Baby, I'd give you the moon. It would be a romantic start to our relationship." (Ben quoting Roberts, 12:33)

• Hosts’ summary skepticism:
  "A little bit sociopathic." (Ben, 13:36)
  "Delusions of grandeur much?" (Noel, 14:39)
  "This guy's a psycho." (Ben, 25:54)

• On the absurdity of Orb Robinson:
  "Are you kidding me?" (Ben, 27:51)
  "I would have gone with Roy Orbison. That would have been fun." (Noel, 28:05)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Moon Rock Heist Introduction: 04:42
• What Motivated Thad Roberts?: 09:08–13:49
• The 'Romantic' Angle Debunked: 12:05–13:49
• Planning the Heist: 19:28–20:37
• Executing the Heist: 22:10–24:51
• Sex on the Moon: 25:28–25:54
• Selling the Moon Rocks ("Orb Robinson") and Getting Caught: 26:55–32:52
• Arrest and Aftermath: 32:52–39:55
• Sentencing & Life Since: 39:55–47:40
• Thad’s Reflective (and Dubious) Quotes: 46:15, 47:20

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Summary Takeaways

• Hubris, insecurity, and deluded idealism drove Thad Roberts and his peers to commit one of NASA’s most embarrassing crimes.
• The criminal plot was both impressively cinematic and deeply foolish.
• The hosts continually balance fascination with scathing skepticism, using Roberts’ own words and external reporting to frame him as a tragically self-important figure.
• The legacy of the heist is lasting—some NASA materials remain missing, and the lives of all participants were permanently altered.

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Notable References & Running Gags

• Pop culture asides: "mission impossible," "sex on the moon," “lunar balls”
• Callbacks to notorious space billionaires and failed public stunts (looking at you, Katy Perry!)
• Repeated skepticism toward internet pseudonyms and badly planned criminal activity

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Credits & Acknowledgments

• Special thanks to researcher Jordan Runtah ("sex on the moon" originator)
• Shoutouts to the show's producers and music creators
• Playful reminders for listeners to tune in and to "turn in your moon rocks"

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This episode offers a wildly entertaining, surprisingly heartfelt, and ultimately sobering journey through a crime that’s equal parts romantic comedy, procedural drama, and cautionary tale for would-be moon thieves and lovers alike.

Transcript

[Ben]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you as always so much for joining us. Let's give a shout out to our fellow moon man, a positive lunatic, super producer, Mr. Max Williams.

[Noel]

A lunatic. Get it? Like lunar. A lunar. Yeah, it's good, it's good. Remember, you remember that band? I think they were like a riot girl band called the Luna Chicks. That's.

[Ben]

I do.

[Noel]

That's fun. I'm Noel, you're Ben. We're having fun talking about moon rocks, talking about people stealing them, misbehaving. Episode one was pretty much all about the history of moon rocks and their place in American culture. And Tricky Dicky Nixon messing things up, you know, causing some of them to go missing. But that wasn't exactly a heist. That was more a case of incompetence and people just kind of having some oopsies and losing the moon rocks. The. What were they called, Ben? Goodwill moon rocks.

[Ben]

Previously on Ridiculous History. We discussed everything that you've excellently recapped there, Noel. The goodwill moon rocks given out during the Tricky Dick administration. There were two hundred and seventy of these very small samples of lunar material taken by the Apollo missions, given out, often unilaterally, by the president of the time, Richard Nixon. However, as we learned previously, not only were a bunch of those mislaid, stolen, or simply lost, there was a guy who's a real hero, a real Indiana Jones who has been hunting these down for the good grace of the United States. That's the ex US military intelligence officer, NASA investigator Joseph Gutheins. And now in Part two, we're getting to something we and our pal Jordan like to call sex on the moon.

[Noel]

Which is not just a bangingly delicious cocktail that should exist. If it doesn't, what would be in that moon? Moon juice. That's not a thing. We'll workshop that one.

[Heather]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Noel]

It's Black Business Month and black tech green money is tapping in. I'm Will Lucas, spotlighting black founders, investors and innovators building the future one idea at a time. Let's talk legacy tech and generational wealth.

[Heather]

I had the skill and I had the talent. I didn't have the opportunity.

[Ben]

Yeah, we all know, right? Genius is evenly distributed.

[Heather]

Opportunity is not.

[Noel]

To hear this and more on the power of black innovation and ownership, listen to black tech green money from the Black Effect podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben]

And here's Heather with the weather.

[Heather]

Well, it's beautiful out there.

[Weather Reporter]

Sunny and 75, almost a little chilly in the shade.

[Heather]

Now let's get a read on the.

[Weather Reporter]

Inside of your car. It is hot. You've only been parked a short time and it's already 99 degrees in there. Let's not leave children in the backseat while running errands. It only takes a few minutes for.

[Heather]

Their body temperatures to rise and that could be fatal.

[Noel]

Cars get hot fast and can be deadly. Never leave a child in a car. A message from NHTSA and the Ad Council. We have indeed arrived at what our buddy JR Describes as the most famous instance of missing and misused moon rocks. In July of 2002, a guy named Thad Thaddeus Roberts. I'm adding the Thaddeus because boy do I hope Thad is short for Thaddeus. 25 year old intern at NASA's elite Cooperative Education program. Orchestrates boldly goes but not to space. He goes into a life of crime in the form of a heist that will go down in history. At least the history of NASA. The theft of 17 pounds of Apollo Mars moon rocks valued. And here we go. We promised it. Here it is valued at between 7 million and 21 million US dollars. Plus for good measure, a Martian meteorite.

[Ben]

Yeah, I was gonna say. But wait, there's more. A meteorite while you're at it, descended from Mars. Yeah, this guy, Thad Roberts who we mentioned in part one, he's, you know, he's mid-20s, he's up and coming, he's looking at the vast chasms of space, the deep ink and the world in which we revolve. And he says, why not me? So he has a girlfriend. This is a romance story. She is also an intern at NASA. Her name is Tiffany Fowler. And they pick up an accomplice who is also an intern. This is Shea Sauer. So like last name Soar Sauerkraut. Like the end of dinosaur spelled a little different. They use their work IDs and the trust of their cohorts and superiors to steal these priceless materials. They get the codes for the locks, they rewire the surveillance and they've got, I'll say it absolutely lunar balls. They got a lot of Hudspin this. They do something that is positively cinematic. It's a 601 pound safe. And at first, get this, Noel. NASA doesn't even realize they got got.

[Noel]

Yeah, I mean they definitely approached this with Mission Impossible levels of planning. You gotta give them credit for that. But boy, what a stupid thing to do. And we're gonna get more into that because the plan ultimately failed. Cause Thad's levels of confidence seemed to exceed his criminal prowess. Ended up spending years behind bars.

[Ben]

Right. And the old poet Burns would say, man's reach must exceed his grasp, else what's a heaven for? Unfortunately, you cannot plead that in a U.S. court. Let's go to New York Times journalist Ben Mezrich. He wrote a book about this and he called it Sex on the Moon. In an interview with CBS News in 2012, he said, Thad Roberts is the most complicated person I've ever written about. He's an incredibly complex character. And I've written about Mark Zuckerberg. I've always been writing about these genius kids who live in that gray area between right and wrong. And here's this kid who basically does a 100 yard sprint through that gray area right into the black area. To your point earlier, Noel, the black area I think means crime.

[Noel]

I would think so. Have you seen the new Alien series on Hulu? Ben Alien Earth?

[Ben]

Not yet. I'm very excited.

[Noel]

It's good. And there's a really awesome character who's like exactly what is being described here. The kind of overly educated, perhaps gifted with a little too much power and confidence. And he's got the best name. He's referred to often as the boy genius, but his name is the Boy Cavalier. And I just, I love everything about it. Some people are iffy about the series, but I'm into it so far. But similarly complex character who himself tends to dip his toe in that black area. So prior to his incarceration, Roberts aspired to be an astronaut like you, Ben. Maybe not a werewolf astronaut, but an astronaut just the same. In addition to earning a triple degree in physics, geology and geophysics at the University of Utah, he was also a licensed pilot and a scuba diver. Which will come into play in the order of events regarding the heist.

[Ben]

Yeah, and with all these bona fides, he has entered into NASA's CO op program. Now Noel, I know you always wanted to go to Space Camp. I would say cut past Space Camp and go to this program. It's pretty prestigious.

[Noel]

It absolutely is. It only accepts 6% of applicants. That's quite an elite number there. Despite his impressive accomplishments, Roberts was super shy. Didn't possess the most high levels of people's skills. He was also quite insecure. He went through a bit of a tough upbringing where he was disowned by, as you may have gathered from the University of Utah, his devout Mormon family when they discovered that he had had premarital sex with his then girlfriend. Which is a mega. No, no. So he was, you know, borderline shunned. That's not. I know that's a, that's a Amish thing, but I think the term still applies here.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah, he was in a tough spot. And in this tough spot he meets Tiffany Fowler, the other intern we mentioned earlier. She is 22 years old. He is on a late night beach hang. It's the perfect meet cute. He will later go on to tell the LA Times in 2004 the following. When I met Tiffany, says Roberts, we talked for 14 hours straight. She was blonde, blue eyed, very toned. She was way out of my league. She was a former cheerleader and at the time she is interning at NASA's tissue culture laboratory. They're conducting stem cell research. Please let's all remember that NASA does a lot of astonishing, very important science. They both dig each other. Tiffany Fowler later goes on to say this guy is very intelligent. He's pretty much good at everything. To your point, Noel, I think that triple degree would argue same. So look, they meet up, they have a great time and then later our buddy Tad, just like a few weeks after their meet coup on the night beach, he moves in to Tiffany's apartment and he says he's been pretty consistent about this. He says he wanted to do this moon rock and Martian heist as a romantic gesture. It's not about the money. It's because I love you.

[Noel]

Yeah, it seems quite misplaced Wrapped up in some of the complexities of this individual's upbringing and that perfect storm of insecurity and intelligence. It's very odd. It's an odd thing to. You know, I'm all about a grand gesture when it comes to the romance, but this just seems quite ill informed and very specific.

[Ben]

And he. Again, back to the LA Times interview. Our buddy Thad says, I was in love with Tiffany in my mind. I was thinking, to your point, Noel, about misplaced good intentions. He says, literally, I was thinking, baby, I'd give you the moon. It would be a romantic start to our relationship.

[Noel]

What is he like a character in the Honeymooners? He's just like, maybe I'd give you the moon. It just sounds like something like a 50s sitcom star would say.

[Ben]

It's also an appeal to emotion that doesn't really deliver because later research would prove that Thad Roberts came up with this plan to steal Lunar material and sell it to a private collector months before the meet cute at night on the beach. She's just kind of convenient for this, you know?

[Noel]

Yeah, that's what it. Okay, I'm with this LA Times writer. This is indeed a complex character.

[Ben]

A little bit sociopathic.

[Noel]

I think so too. And let's also, you know, to your point, Ben, exercise a little empathy. I would argue the literalness of a lot of these things implies a position somewhere on the far end of the spectrum.

[Ben]

I hear you. Yeah, he did have a buyer lined up, which we'll get to in a moment. And in later conversations, post bust, by the way, obviously Thad gets busted. In later conversations, he gets confronted with proof that there was a financial rather than romantic motivation here, at least at the beginning. And he sticks with the story, right? He sticks with the story of a lover gone wrong. And he said, in my own head, stealing something wasn't the way I looked at it. We weren't going to take this money we're getting from it to go buy a yacht or lots of cars or a big house. We were going to live just the small kind of lifestyle, but fun science that might change the world, you know?

[Noel]

Delusions of grandeur much?

[Ben]

Come on, guy.

[Noel]

Holy cow, this dude. It's probably a good time to note that between. Between their first meetings and the night of the theft, Roberts and Tiffany had known each other for all of about three weeks. When asked about this, Roberts explained, I don't think that kind of connection that people really desire requires much time.

[Ben]

Okay.

[Noel]

Love at first sight kind of cat. A real, A real hopeless romantic when.

[Ben]

You know you know?

[Noel]

Okay, I don't know about that. So let's get into what's the plot, the scheme, as Jordan puts it. One dumb step for man.

[Ben]

Beautiful.

[Narrator (Havoc Town)]

There's a vile sickness in Abba's town. You must excise it, dig into the deep earth, and cut it out.

[Ben]

The village is ravaged.

[Narrator (Havoc Town)]

Entire families have been consumed.

[Heather]

You know how waking up from a dream, a familiar place can look completely alien?

[Noel]

Get back, everyone.

[Ben]

He's got knacks.

[Narrator (Havoc Town)]

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The Devil walks in Abbostown.

[Heather]

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[Noel]

There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond and.

[Heather]

Left a woman behind to drown. There's a famous headline, I think, in the New York Daily News, it's teddy escapes, Blonde drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you the story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president?

[Noel]

Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control.

[Heather]

And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal.

[Noel]

The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.

[Heather]

Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Weather Reporter]

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[Noel]

No, I didn't audition.

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[Noel]

I won't say whitewashed because at the end of the day, you know, I'm me. Yeah, but the whole pretending and coat, you know, it takes a toll on you.

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[Ben]

So our buddy Thad is moved in with this lady he's met, Tiffany Fowler, and he tells her, bab, I love you. I got this idea. Let's steal, you know, rocks, but like moon rocks. And she goes, oh, my God, you read my mind, Beb.

[Noel]

They're also now, all of a sudden, they've trans morphed into the Californians, which I am here for.

[Ben]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. And we are not giving you accurate impressions. We're doing impressions that we find hilarious.

[Noel]

Impressions of impressions. At least the impressions that exist in our mind of what these people may or may not have sounded like. Yeah, what is that thing, that Joker movie that tanked that phenomenon where two People kind of make each other co. Crazy.

[Ben]

Folia do.

[Noel]

That's the one. I think there's a bit of that going on here because she was not a passive bystander in all of this. She was not just the object of this bonkers grand gesture of affection. She urged him on. Not only did she urge him on, she offered to be his accomplice.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. Not a sidekick, a co. Conspirator. And they did have a good case in that they weren't planning to harm anyone. They weren't planning to injure people. They weren't planning to, you know, do headshots or anything like that. And they rationalized. They rationalized this mission by saying, look, these rocks had already been contaminated, right? So maybe they aren't worthwhile to science, to scientific research and endeavors. And I'm gonna be honest, as former President Biden was wont to say, that's malarkey.

[Noel]

Malarkey indeed. I mean, sure, one person's space trash is another person's space treasure, but like you said, Ben, all of this appears to be some pretty circular reasoning trying to justify, you know, doing a crime. So on one rainy Saturday evening in July 2002, Roberts, Tiffany Fowler, and Shea Sauer pulled up to Houston's Johnson Space center in a Jeep Cherokee, classic heist vehicle, if you ask me. The guard recognized Roberts as he was a known entity around there, and the fact that this wasn't his normal vehicle. So he inquired quite reasonably, you get a new car and this guy's from Boston? No, sir, he responded. That's fat. I borrowed it to help a friend move.

[Ben]

And that guy's Matt Berry playing the impression.

[Noel]

Oh, that's the only impression that I do. It's the only one.

[Ben]

So this helps our Bostonian. Not really Bostonian. Security guard wave them through. And the accomplices get to Building 31. And this is where, allegedly, they begin rewiring the security cameras. Good question, though. How did they do that? How did they know where the cameras were? Anyway, fast forwarding through this. Their accomplice, Shay, is waiting in the car, keeping an eye on these rewired cameras. And Tiffany and Thad enter the building. They use a key code that they got from a former co worker, and then they don't. This is so cool. Max, can we get some heist music? Make it real. Mission Impossible. Ocean's Eleven. Perfect. So they get this. They put on neoprene bodysuits so that they won't emit heat that would set off a thermal alarm. And the rocks are Kept in an airless vacuum. So this is where the scuba stuff you mentioned earlier comes in, Noel. They bring along breathing paraphernalia from Thad Roberts scuba gear. I just gotta say, at this point, ethics aside, I'm impressed.

[Noel]

I'm impressed too. The rewiring of the cameras alone had me. Unfortunately, by the time they entered the room with the rocks, they only had about three minutes to figure out how to crack the safe before they had run out of oxygen from those breathing apparatuses. The clock is indeed ticking. They decided to simply load the entire six. This reminds me of like someone stealing an atmosphere, you know, figure out what to do with it later. 601 pound safe onto a dolly and wheeled it out to their car.

[Ben]

What could go wrong?

[Noel]

Yeah, this was literally sagging the suspension of the Jeep.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. So the jeep is dragging and they make it by the security. Right. Because they've already been allowed in, it's easier to get out. Right. And so two days later, it takes a full 48 hours. NASA notices. Hey, our 601 pounds safe is not where it was earlier. What could have happened? They look around. Thad Roberts, Tiffany Fowler left no fingerprints, no hair, no security footage. Shea is a ghost. And in the wind, they pulled off the perfect heist.

[Noel]

And.

[Ben]

And then they get romantic. They drive to the Houston suburb of Clear Lake.

[Noel]

This is the moment in the movie where the star crossed lovers who have just like robbed a bank or something, get it on in a pile of cash. Only a much nerdier version. Much nerdier. They at least Thad says in an interview that once they finally cracked open the safe, which took them a while, he knew what they had to do. He says, I take some of the moon rocks and I put them underneath the blanket on the bed, and then we made love.

[Ben]

I never said anything, but I'm sure she could feel it. This guy's crazy.

[Noel]

I bet she could feel it.

[Ben]

Princess and the Pea story. Yeah. Oh, geez. He said it was more about the symbol of what we were doing, basically having sex on the moon. And it's more uncomfortable than not. But it wasn't about the comfort at that point. It was about the expression, this guy's a psycho.

[Noel]

This guy is nuts.

[Ben]

Come on.

[Noel]

I'm sorry, I'm not mental health shaming here, but this dude is unwell and.

[Ben]

No, he's great at yoga. Can you imagine patting your back that consistently?

[Noel]

Well, yeah, that's exactly right. But we're seeing a lot of these delusions of grandeur. We're Seeing a lot of these just absolutes, you know, the moments of megalomania and delusion. Pure delusion. Not just of grandeur. So once that deed, that, you know, rocky, uncomfortable deed had been done, artistic expression, fair enough. I'm sure they had to get some kinks out of their backs. And also, no kink shaming here. If doing it on moon rocks is your thing, by all means, go with God. Just don't steal them from the government. It was, in fact now time to fence the stolen moon rocks, including the lightly sullied ones, the sexed ones.

[Ben]

Lightly sexed, which might fetch a higher price. I don't know.

[Noel]

Maybe after the fact, maybe. Maybe in hindsight. Yeah.

[Ben]

So there's this guy that is going to function as their fence. His name is Gordon McWhorter. And Jordan just absolutely loves this guy's name. So they go to a mineralogy website and they list these pieces of lunar material for between 2,000 and 8,000 a gram less priceless.

[Noel]

Stolen moon rocks. Nothing to see here, folks. Don't dig too deep. Everything's above board.

[Ben]

We assure you they didn't say stolen.

[Noel]

Every time they did. But I'm just saying, where else are they going to come from? This is in the midst of. Of a moon rock heist. Unless these were some of the remaining goodwill moon rocks that had surfaced. But as we know, our dogged investigator of the moon rock whatever society he would have known. It just seems like a real boneheaded thing to advertise this in a public forum.

[Ben]

My guy. Check out the pseudonym that Gordon McWhorter, real name Gordon McWhorter, used this pseudonym. Are you ready? Orb Robinson. Orb? Are you kidding me?

[Noel]

I would have gone with Roy Orbison. That would have been fun.

[Ben]

I think that's where they were coming from.

[Noel]

Pretty soon they were all going to be crying, right?

[Ben]

Right? Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. And I guess Thad would say that it was all for a pretty woman. If you have an interest. If you have an interest, the listing reads, in purchasing a rare and historically significant piece of the moon and would like more information, then please contact me by email and leave your contact information and an explanation of your interest. Sincerely, Orb. So bad.

[Noel]

It's pretty bad.

[Ben]

So bad. It's so, like, not good operational security.

[Noel]

It just seems like up to this point, they had done everything so relatively smartly, aside from the, you know, moon rock sex being a little odd and them not really having a plan to crack the safe. But they got out of there. They were kind of free and clear at this point. All right, how do we get them busted, man? That's what I want to know.

[Ben]

Oh, gosh. Yeah. There's a Belgian mineral collector named Axel Emmerman, and he reaches out, he responds to orb and orb says the following. And folks, ridiculous historians, you listen to this and tell us if it sounds suspicious to you. Noel, can you do the honors on this quotation? This response.

[Noel]

As you well know, it is illegal to sell Apollo lunar rocks in the United States. This obviously has not discouraged me since I live in the United States. However, I must be cautious that this deal is handled with the utmost delicacy in that I am not publicly exposed.

[Ben]

Terrible, terrible.

[Noel]

Buddy, buddy, buddy. I mean, tell on yourself, why don't you? No, no, no, no, I'm.

[Ben]

Your quotation is amazing. I love your.

[Noel]

I'm saying buddy, buddy, buddy to our boy, Orb, Roybason or whatever. The Frick Ammerman is understandably, completely weirded out by this. The price is also much lower than anything that would be consider board should possibly be for such an artifact. So he contacted the FBI like you do, who at this point had already gotten the word from NASA about the stolen goods. Seriously boneheaded stuff.

[Ben]

So undercover agents decide to pose as the American relatives of Axel Emmerman. And they say, okay, we're going to meet up with you on July 20, 2002. And we hope to God it was an Olive Garden and that they got bottomless breadsticks.

[Noel]

I would hope. Of course, when you're there, you're family.

[Ben]

When you're there, you're family. So coincidentally, this was also the 33rd anniversary of the moon landing, the Apollo 11 mission. So. So Thad Roberts arrives at this Italian restaurant and he is a little bit tired because he's been driving from Houston to Florida. It's a long drive. And he makes a joke because again, he's not the brightest crayon in the box. He says, I'm just hoping you don't have a wire on you.

[Noel]

Hyuck. Hyuck. FBI agent Lynn Billings, who sat across from him at the restaurant, was indeed wearing a wire capt his hilarious tone deaf line for posterity. Despite this, audio recordings of the meeting revealed that Roberts and his accomplices were completely taken in by the ruse.

[Ben]

No, you think, oh, this sounds great, you guys. So you're related to Emmerman. You're related to Axel Emmerman. You know what, can we get some more breadsticks?

[Noel]

We love that soul.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Noel]

What was he like as a kid? So Roberts admitted that he was so Excited that he couldn't even finish his bottomless breadsticks. He had one round of breadsticks and McWhorter even tipped a waitress $30 just to cheer her up, just to make her have a brighter day. Remember, these are also interns in their early 20s giving off mega early 20s energy. The undercover agents accompany the group back to their room at the Sheridan. Of course, of course, the old famous Orlando Sheridan, home to many a con to con like conference and also cons apparently soon to be anyhow, which were being kept the goods that is in a tackle box. And that's when Thad Roberts, Tiffany Fowler and Gordon McWhorter were arrested on the.

[Ben]

Spot for theft of government property and interstate transportation of said property of stolen goods. They got swarmed by 40 federal agents, armed agents by the way. Helicopters were coming in, the freeway got shut down, just in case they were clever enough to have a burner car. And the person we mentioned earlier, Shea Sour, who did not go with them, was arrested later that very same day in Houston, Texas.

[Narrator (Havoc Town)]

There's a vile sickness in Amberstown. You must excise it. Dig into the deep earth and cut it out.

[Ben]

The village is ravaged.

[Narrator (Havoc Town)]

Entire fate families have been consumed.

[Heather]

You know how waking up from a dream, a familiar place can look completely alien.

[Noel]

Get back everyone.

[Narrator (Havoc Town)]

And if you see the devil walking around inside of another man, you must cut out the very heart of him, burn his body and scatter the ashes in the furthest corner of this town.

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As a warning from iHeart podcasts and grim and movies mild from Aaron Manke, this is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe starring Jewel State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben]

The Devil walks in Abbottown.

[Heather]

Hey sis, what if I could promise you you never had to listen to a condescending finance bro tell you how to manage your money again? Welcome to Brown Ambition. This is the hard part. When you pay down those credit cards, if you haven't gotten to the bottom of why you were racking up credit or turning to credit cards, you may just recreate the same problem A year from now when you do feel like you are bleeding from these high interest rates, I would start shopping for a debt consolidation loan. Starting with your local credit union. Shopping around online looking for some online lenders because they tend to have fewer fees and be more affordable. Listen, I am not here to judge. It is is so expensive in these streets I 100% can see how in just a few months, you can have this much credit card debt, and it weighs on you. It's really easy to just, like, stick your head in the sand. It's nice and dark in the sand. Even if it's scary, it's not going to go away just because you're avoiding it. And in fact, it may get even worse. For more judgment free money advice, listen to Brown ambition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Super Secret Bestie club podcast season.

[Noel]

Four is here, and we're locked in. That means more juicy, terrible love advice.

[Heather]

Evil spells to cast on your ex.

[Noel]

No, no, we're not doing that this season.

[Heather]

Oh, well, this season we're leveling up.

[Noel]

Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. Get in here. Today we have a very special guest with us. Our new super secret bestie is the diva of the people.

[Heather]

The diva of the people.

[Noel]

I'm just like Tex Rex. My theory is that if you need to figure out the. The stove is hot. Go and touch it. Go and figure it out for yourself.

[Heather]

Okay, that's us. What the heck?

[Noel]

That's us. My name is Curly.

[Heather]

And I'm Maya.

[Noel]

In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heartbreaks, men, and of course, our favorite secrets.

[Heather]

Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the Microtura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your pocket podcast.

[Ben]

Hello, I'm John Lithgow.

[Noel]

We choose to go to the moon. I want to tell you about my.

[Narrator (Havoc Town)]

New fiction podcast, that's One Small Step for Man.

[Noel]

It's about Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space. You're a great pilot, Buzz. As far as I'm concerned, the best I've seen. That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't predisposition.

[Heather]

To depression, alcohol abuse, and suicide.

[Noel]

We'll see Buzz try to overcome demons.

[T-Mobile Ad Voice]

What do you say, Buzz?

[Narrator (Havoc Town)]

Another beer?

[Noel]

And triumph over addiction.

[Heather]

Here's to you, Buzz Aldrin.

[Noel]

Good luck to you and become a true hero. Buzz and I will proceed into the lunar module not because he conquers space, but because he conquers himself.

[Ben]

Buzz, we intercepted a Soviet radio transmission.

[Noel]

Starring me, John Lithgow.

[Ben]

Can you put it through Translate on.

[Noel]

The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Columbia.

[Ben]

Now, our buddy, Thad Roberts, consummate romantic, as he said. He's jammed up in a Florida jail for 16 months awaiting trial. And he's awaiting trial because he called his parents for help with the bail money and his parents said no.

[Noel]

I mean, he was already kind of on their shit list for that premarital sex snafu that they did not approve of. And they had apparently said to him previously, I don't know how this comes up, but I guess it does that if any of his children ever got into jail, he would make sure they stayed there as long as possible and then they use bail. Basically getting what he deserved.

[Ben]

Yeah. And Thad Roberts claims that he wrote a novel about his time. We looked into. Has not been widely published, but perhaps we can read it. One day the FBI went and searched Thad Roberts apartment to see if there were any more stolen moon rocks. And you know what they found? Not moon rocks, but fossils that he had stolen from his time at the Utah Museum of Natural History.

[Noel]

This guy's just insatiable in his thirst for stealing historical artifacts.

[Ben]

Yeah, and apparently he was called a master manipulator in October of 2003. Yeah, we don't think he's that great. No, we don't think he is.

[Noel]

This is the court rhetoric. Yeah, yeah.

[Ben]

Judge Ann C. Conway calls him that. She doubles the sentencing guideline and knocks him up for eight years in the federal pen. The other two accomplices, Tiffany Fowler, Shea Sauer, are given more lenient sentences because they cooperate.

[Noel]

I imagine this also probably put an end to their astronautical career pursuits. Or at least Tiffany's.

[Ben]

I love the idea that there might be some black bag NASA contingent.

[Noel]

Right.

[Ben]

That pulls you out of the pen and says you're exactly what we're looking for. We're putting you together with a team of oil drillers.

[Noel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like the slow, the slow horses in the British. That's like where the all the really crappy disgraced agents go, you know?

[Ben]

Yeah, that or podcasting. Right. So these, these other two accomplices, their sentence is much reduced. They get 180 days of house arrest, which honestly sounds kind of fun. And then they get 150 hours of community service, which is a good thing you should do anyway. You should always try to help out the community around you. And then they're on probation for three years.

[Noel]

Not too bad, not too shabby. But again, they got a record. Probably not ever gonna be able to work in the sciences, dare we say, ever again.

[Ben]

Yeah, like you said, they're going to be on the slow horses end of NASA for sure.

[Noel]

Yeah. And The FBI actually explained in a press release the severity of the incident, saying that the young thieves did more than just try to sell off a collection of lunar samples in the process. And this is funny because this is referenced by Thad himself as a justification, saying this was not true and didn't matter in the process success. The FBI said they also contaminated them, making them virtually useless to the scientific community. So I don't know, that justification maybe didn't hold water or. It was very much what he. What it was just. Just that, a justification. Because who's he to say? It's another one of those moments of just like, I know better. And therefore, it's something you see all the time in sociopathic behavior. Someone thinking that they are the ultimate authority on what's right and what's wrong, and they have their own kind of code. Code. They also destroyed three decades worth of handwritten research notes by a NASA scientist. Didn't talk about this, Thad, did you? That had been locked in the safe.

[Ben]

Yeah. And we're all wondering about the fourth guy, Gordon McWhorter. Gordon got jammed up hard, okay? He got sentenced to six years in prison. And he was, in our opinion, rightly pissed about this. He would later go on to state, quote, I used the Internet for two hours and got six years. I'm not a terrorist. I'm a college kid who got caught up in a glorified fraternity prank.

[Noel]

Jeez. Jeez. These folks are so good at justification, Shall I say, rather bad at justification.

[Ben]

Yeah, well, we'll have to ask them. We also want to note that two other significant pieces of NASA history were missing at the time of the crime. They are not recovered as we record today. The first is. You'll love this. Or your friend who doesn't believe in the moon. No, Will love this. The original videotapes of the 1969 Apollo 11 lunar landing. Proof are gone.

[Noel]

Proof positive. It doesn't exist. They don't want you to know. Now, if you had the videotapes, you'd be able to see Kubrick in the background framing up the shot.

[Ben]

I love that joke from Mitchell and Webb. The idea is that Kubrick is such an auteur that he faked the moon landing, but he had to go to the moon to fake it.

[Noel]

Yeah, that's like something Christopher Nolan would do. There's all these jokes about him actually detonating an atomic bomb to make Oppenheimer.

[Ben]

Yeah. Just to keep it accurate. And due to. Oh, the other thing missing. Six folders. More mysterious content supposedly in that safe. Would that be the handwritten notes referred to by NASA authorities? We don't know. Thad Roberts claims he never saw him. And Thad Roberts is never going to walk on the moon. He can never become an astronaut. Things did not work out with him and Tiffany Fowler. He also was, get this folks, married to someone else during the entire time. The person he was married to was a resident of Utah when Thad went to NASA in Houston, Texas and she filed for divorce as soon as the story hit the news. Ultimately, your buddy Thad is serving six years at the Federal Correctional Institution in Florence, Colorado. And then he writes a thesis, a 500 page thesis. And we would just love to give you the title, folks. It is available now on Amazon.

[Noel]

Yeah, and let me just say, Thad is nobody's buddy.

[Ben]

That guy sucks.

[Noel]

I'm sorry. He's just. Boy, oh boy, everything. All the worst parts of like elitism and privilege represented here and us. This idea that like. No, no, no, this is totally. I'm doing God's work here. I am the one that's going to forward science with my very, very selfish acts.

[Ben]

Guys, I read about the Bible and you know what I figured out? I'm Jesus, actually. Says every cult leader. Yeah, Noel, can you give us the title of this prison thesis?

[Noel]

Yeah, yeah, super, super humble title here. 500 page thesis entitled Einstein's Intuition Visualiz Dimensional Framework of Nature, An Introduction to Quantum Space Theory, which you can now get as an ebook on Amazon if you wish.

[Ben]

And he was a model prisoner. He did get a telescope and he taught an astronomy class while in the pen. Why are we speaking in past tense? Well, that's because Thad Roberts was released from prison in early 2008 and has become a theoretical physicist, has straightened up his life and. Well, folks, let's see what you make of his quotation to NBC News when he was asked about his previous crimes.

[Noel]

Well, geez, Ben, I guess this totally goes against my theory that all of these folks would be completely shunned by the scientific community. We will, however, say that these federal convictions would prohibit him from ever becoming a NASA astronaut again. But he had this to say. I, like many others and filled with awe when I reflect upon how those rocks demonstrate humanity's limitless potential. Is this what he said to the parole board? This is great. But that awe does not live within those rocks. It belongs to all of us. From experience, I can say that there are more appropriate and more productive ways to come face to face with our magnificent insignificance than stealing a Piece of the moon. Whatever you do, don't repeat my mistakes.

[Ben]

Convincing. Convincing.

[Noel]

No, I know, I know. I'm a little skeptical. I'm a little skeptical too. Ben. I saw you. I saw that very reasonable eye roll. You're not.

[Ben]

I mean, look, he also gets asked about whether or not he can become an astronaut. And. And based on our previous conversation these past two episodes, you can tell that Noel, Max and yours truly are what we would call big skeptic about this. However, Thad Roberts remains optimistic and maybe listening to this podcast today said the anything's possible. I think I'm gonna still make a run for space. The private industry is still maybe going on. This might be the big thing of our lifetime. And if it is, I'm gonna try to find a way to go. Maybe I can pick up a moon rock legally this time. One that I can keep, put on my mantle and not have to keep it a secret.

[Noel]

Well, Ben, we didn't even talk about this. I mean, one of the biggest space programs around private is run by a pretty outwardly megalomaniacal creep. So maybe he and Thad will get along just fine. I'm just saying the idea of like NASA being the only path to space is no longer. Longer the case and we are living in a time where bonafides are less and less important and it's more about kind of who you know, looking at.

[Ben]

You, Katy Perry, the Post Truth environment. And yes, my, my wonderful co host, Noel Proud is still mad at Katy Perry.

[Noel]

I'm not mad at Katy Perry. Let her do what she wants. It was just a really. It was just such a bungled. Yes. Publicity stunt. Yes.

[Ben]

I do love it though, and we hope that you love these episodes. Thanks again to our research associate, Junior Jordan Runtah. You can find him on multiple other shows. I really like a lot of his work. Noel, can you pitch some of the other endeavors of our boy?

[Noel]

He's got a great podcast that publishes pretty regularly called Too Much Information or TMI for short, where he. He delves into all kinds of pop culture shenanigans with his co host. And he's also. He and I have worked together on some shows in the past. One about David Bowie's life that you can find just search for David Bowie podcast. And one about the Rolling Stones storied Exile on Main street album and tour that we did with some of the folks who were actually around for those moments of chaos, debauchery and. And sometimes genius. So yeah, do check it out. He's also got printed work that you can find in various publications of note, including Rolling Stone and People Magazine. He's written, you know, profiles on everyone from Paul McCartney to James Taylor. So he's a real music head. And we really appreciate him bringing us this incredible heist story about moon rocks.

[Ben]

Agreed. And also big thanks to our super producer, Mr. Max Williams. Huge thanks to Alex Williams, Max's biological brother, who composed this slap and bop. And again, we just want to make a PSA for one person in the crowd, Jonathan Strickland, AKA the Quizzter. Please turn in the moon rocks. You know what you did.

[Noel]

Yeah. And I'd like to offer one last little thanks to to puppy Apollo, who's our own little space dog mascot for this pair of episodes. So Apollo waves goodbye to you lovely folks out there. We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Narrator (Havoc Town)]

There's a vile sickness in Ambus Town. You must excise it. Dig into the deep earth and cut it out.

[T-Mobile Ad Voice]

From iheart Podcasts and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manke. This is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe, starring Jewel State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Noel]

I always had to be so good. No one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling, the limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through [e-mail] brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council.

[Ben]

Tune in to all the Smoke podcast where Matt and Stack sit down with former first lady Michelle Obama. Folks find it hard to hate up close.

[Heather]

And when you get to know people and you're sitting in their kitchen tables and they're talking like we're talking, you know, you hear our story, how we grew up, how Barack I grew up. And you get a chance for people to unpack and get beyond race.

[Noel]

All the Smoke featuring Michelle Obama.

[Ben]

To hear this podcast and more, open your free iHeartRadio app, search all the.

[Noel]

Smoke and listen now.

[Heather]

Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job, a place, or even a relationship? I'm Emily Tish Sussman. And on she Pivots I dive into the inspiring pivots of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers.

[Ben]

I'm Gretchen Whitmer. Jody Sweetin, Monica Patton.

[Heather]

Elaine Welteroth. Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to be full of them. Listen to these women and more on she Pivots now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I Heart podcast.