The Bizarre Parable of New Coke, Chapter Two: A Rise. A Fall. A Conspiracy?

Summary

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Ridiculous History – "The Bizarre Parable of New Coke, Chapter Two: A Rise. A Fall. A Conspiracy?"

Podcast: Ridiculous History
Hosts: Ben Bowlin & Noel Brown
Episode Date: May 26, 2026
Producer: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

In the second installment of their two-part "New Coke" saga, co-hosts Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown dive into the chaotic rollout, swift backlash, and lasting conspiracies surrounding the infamous 1985 launch of New Coke. With their trademark humor and conversational style, they dissect how a simple product reformulation morphed into a culture war, incited a wave of lawsuits and protest groups, and sparked enduring rumors about the motives and machinations of The Coca-Cola Company. From regional identity politics to the murky world of sweetener lobbyists and consumer activism, this episode unpacks the passion, confusion, and mythmaking that made New Coke one of the most ridiculous episodes in American branding history.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Stage: American Soda and the Health Craze of the 1980s

• Coke vs. Pepsi Rivalry & Crystal Clear Soda Trend

  • Coke was reacting to Pepsi gaining market share and the growing perception of clear sodas as healthier choices.
  • Noel: "Pepsi almost... was like, oh wait, we need to do a clear soda. Because clear sodas were more associated with health. Which is absurd..." (05:06)
  • Both companies chased trends—such as Crystal Pepsi—often with disastrous results.

• Changing American Tastes

  • The New Coke formula was sweeter, aiming to appeal to shifting consumer palates and compete with Pepsi.
  • Ben: “There was a bit of a sea change in the country. This is in the mid-80s towards a more health conscious approach to consuming fizzy bevs.” (05:54)
  • Despite internal surveys showing most people liked sweeter New Coke, the backlash was severe, especially in the South.

2. Nationwide Backlash and the Birth of a Culture War

• Cultural Identity and Regionalism

  • Ben: “Until you get to the south, this is where it becomes a straight up culture war. The southeastern United States despises New Coke. They think it’s Yankee stuff.” (09:35)
  • Southern consumers saw Coke’s reformulation as a betrayal of tradition.
  • Noel: Quoting a professor from Mississippi: “Changing the formula of Coke is an 'intrusion on tradition.'” (11:06)
  • Accusations against CEO Roberto Goizueta even veered into xenophobic territory—he was called a communist due to his Cuban heritage.

• Hyperbolic Consumer Activism

  • Hilariously melodramatic consumer reactions highlighted, e.g.:
    • Noel: “So much of my life is changing outside of my control. Now, Coke. The one thing left from my childhood... has been changed.” – Andy Gribble, age 19 (13:14)
    • Dan Lauck, a Texan who drank five cases of Coke a week, smuggled old Coke into restaurants and called New Coke’s debut “the blackest day of my life.” (14:32)
  • Media reported on “letter-writing campaigns,” lawsuits, and hoarding of old Coke.

• Formation of Protest Groups

  • Gay Mullins (Seattle) created “Old Cola Drinkers of America (OCDA)”—a grassroots-sounding entity to protest New Coke. (22:01)
  • Mullins set up hotlines and garnered interviews, claiming, “They [Coca-Cola] have taken away my freedom of choice. It’s un-American.” (23:25)
  • Coca-Cola received 1,500+ calls a day; a psychiatrist noted people “sound like they are talking about the death of a family member.” (24:38)

3. Corporate Chaos and the Road to Reversal

• National Media and Internal Coke Struggles

  • Making fun of New Coke became a national pastime—fuel for late night TV and water cooler banter.
  • Executive and bottler rebellion: Some company executives and bottlers quietly lobbied for the return of the original formula. (26:34)

• The Return of “Coca-Cola Classic” (30:00–30:50)

  • After 79 days and immense backlash, on July 11, 1985, Coca-Cola announced the return of the “original” formula as “Coca-Cola Classic.”
  • The returned formula, however, was not identical—it now featured high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) instead of cane sugar.

4. Conspiracy Theories & Sweetener Shenanigans

• Sugar vs. Corn Syrup – The “Real” Conspiracy

  • Noel: “The Sugar Association... took out full page ads in national newspapers... turning their nose up at Classic Coke because it is sweetened with a cheaper sweetener, corn syrup instead of sugar.” (31:58)
  • The move to HFCS angered “Big Sugar,” spurring yet more PR battles and confusion.
  • Jonathan Strickland (guest): “Sugar beets account for 55% of total sugar produced in the United States.” (33:10)

• Astroturfing and Manufactured Outrage

  • Noel: "Was this outcry entirely manufactured, or was there some actual humans that were genuinely upset about this?" (40:46)
  • Ben: “They were empowered, radicalized, and their complaints exacerbated by... 'astroturfing' campaigns.” (41:00)
  • Astroturfing: Corporations disguise campaigns as grassroots movements to nudge public opinion.

• The Mullins “Grift” Reveal

  • Mullins’ Old Cola Drinkers group turned out to be partly a cash grab—he sought to be paid by Coke, Pepsi, or sugar lobbies to shut down the protests. (42:00)
  • Losing interest when it wasn't profitable, Mullins faded from the media landscape.

5. Theories and Myths: Did Coke Plan It All Along?

• Was New Coke just a scheme to revive demand for “the real thing”?

  • Noel: “There’s part of me that all along... what if they did this whole thing just to create a renewed surge of appreciation?” (30:11)
  • Ben: “One of the most popular conspiracy theories.” (30:29)
  • The more plausible story: Mistakes, not Machiavellian plotting, drove the fiasco.

• Other Theories:

  • Switching to corn syrup was the real endgame; New Coke was a distraction.
  • The formula was changed to remove coca derivatives under pressure from the DEA and Reagan’s War on Drugs. (47:48–48:33)
  • Noel: “None of these conspiracies can be conclusively proven... but they’re still fun to think about.” (49:04)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Cultural Reaction:

  • Noel (on the southern backlash): “South got something to say. And they said it in the form of strongly worded letters and calls to the Coca Cola Company.” (10:27)
  • Ben (on outrage escalation): “This is a culture war. There’s an oft cited observation... changing the formula of Coke is a quote, intrusion on tradition.” (11:06)
  • Gay Mullins likens Coke’s formula change to the American Revolution: “The Declaration of Independence and the Revolutionary War occurred because of taxation without representation… I feel that this is a battle of that magnitude.” (27:31)

• Conspiracy Reflections:

  • Noel (on conspiracy plausibility): “It just seems so risky… Occam’s Razor… doesn’t really lend itself to being the way one would go about accomplishing a goal like that, you know?” (43:33)
  • Ben (psychiatrist’s insight): “The psychiatrist told the top brass of Coca Cola, hey, these callers sound like they are talking about the death of a family member.” (24:38)

• Humorous Asides:

  • Hosts’ banter about soda withdrawals, dreams, and pop culture commercial references (06:46–07:51).
  • Extended mocking of the grift and dramatics of protest leaders ("If this is your only speed bump in life, tell us where you're driving…” – Ben, 15:04).
  • Homages to ‘Ecto Cooler,’ ‘McRib,’ and soda nostalgia (16:25–16:58).

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Timeline of Important Moments (Timestamps)

• Crystal Pepsi/Clear Soda Trend: 05:06–05:54
• Soda Addiction & Advertising Influence: 06:37–07:51
• Southern Resistance & Culture War Begins: 09:35–10:49
• Melodramatic Consumer Reactions: 13:14–15:26
• Rise of Gay Mullins & OCDA: 21:09–23:25
• Coca-Cola Reversal & Return of “Classic”: 30:00–30:50
• Conspiracy Theory Spotlight: 30:11–44:00
• Astroturfing & Grifter Reveal: 40:46–41:57
• Final Discontinuation of New Coke: 42:59
• Sugar vs. HFCS Facts: 45:33–47:22
• Cocaine Conspiracy: 47:48–49:04
• Nostalgia and 2019 Stranger Things New Coke Drop: 49:52–50:24

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Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up

• Cultural Lesson: New Coke’s flop was not about taste—it was about identity, tradition, and the American appetite for nostalgia and outrage.

  • Ben: “It genuinely seems the primary issue of that failure was not taste, it was cultural identity.” (49:04)
  • Noel: “People love flexing righteous indignation.” (49:52)

• Legacy: The short-lived product ignited an era's worth of marketing cautionary tales, inspired conspiracy theories, and was revived as a nostalgia stunt for Stranger Things in 2019.

• Big Brands Win: Despite the fiasco, Coca-Cola remains an omnipresent brand, owning Sprite, Fanta, Topo Chico, and more. (51:10–52:35)

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For the Curious

• Further Listening: Check the archives for Ridiculous History episodes on Fanta, Ecto Cooler, the sugar industry, and America’s “addiction to corn.”
• Pop Quiz: Did your parents ever try New Coke? How did it taste? Let us know!

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Credits

• Hosts: Ben Bowlin, Noel Brown
• Super Producer: Max "New Coke" Williams
• Guests: Jonathan Strickland
• Research Associate: (as per Ben at outro)

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Ridiculous History cleverly demonstrates that, sometimes, the most ridiculous stories make the best history lessons—especially when they come loaded with soda, sugar, and sticky-sweet scandal.

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Transcript

[Ben]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartradio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you as always so much for, for tuning in. This is the second leader of a two liter episode on New Coke. We've got to give, we've got to give a great shout out to our super producer, of course, Mr. Max Williams.

[Noel]

Max Full. Calorie soda Williams.

[Ben]

Yeah, Max Full at Leonard, it's your Noel Brown. I've been bulling you ever in that

[Noel]

thing where you drop a mentos into a 2 liter of Coke? Or at the very least seen it on the Internet?

[Ben]

I've definitely done that.

[Noel]

You've done it, you maniac. You just want to watch the world burn, don't you?

[Ben]

I want to watch it fizzle.

[Noel]

There you go. And boy, does it ever. There's this dude in particular that does Instagram videos where he sings a fun little jaunty song and then drops a bunch of Mentos into a Coke and then sticks his whole face on it. And it just, it's wild and nihilistic and I love him.

[Ben]

So one thing we should all know, fellow ridiculous historians, is that my brother Noel here just did an amazing cool dance dance.

[Noel]

It was the fizzy mouth dance. I did the accompanying sound effect. Use your imagination. Hands on either side of the face, facing inward with a little wiggle.

[Ben]

Noel is a really good dancer, folks, and we.

[Noel]

I like to cut a rug.

[Ben]

You taught me. One time we were at some disreputable Atlanta establishment and there's one of those

[Noel]

here, very above board.

[Ben]

You're the guy who told me, no, Ben, you've got to throw shapes.

[Noel]

Gotta throw them shapes. I'm a big fan of very small, self contained dance moves. You know, the less you move, the better. It just really shows that you got the confidence.

[Ben]

Well, I appreciate you, brother. And we are, we, we're sipping the second leader of a two liter series on the bizarre saga of New Coke.

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[Ben]

I want to be completely transparent with everybody. You know, we were talking crystal Pepsi transparent crystal Pepsi, crystal gravy, which we

[Noel]

should maybe do as well because that was its own debacle. That is very similar to new Coke, but it has its own. Honestly, dude, similar origins. I think Pepsi almost like, you know, was like, oh wait, we need to do a clear soda. Because clear sodas were more associated with health. Which is absurd, obviously, because Sprite has just as much sugar as Coke, if I'm not mistaken. But we will recall in a little quick previously that Coca Cola was reacting to Pepsi kind of eating their lunch in terms of market share for full calorie sodas. And there was a bit of a sea change in the country. Where are we talking, Ben? This is in the late in the mid-80s towards a more health conscious approach to Consuming fizzy bevs. Yeah.

[Ben]

And one thing I did not mention when I was visibly drinking, audibly drinking a Coca Cola. Zero. Right. Just so in our previous episode in this series. Guys, Noel, you already know this because we hang out a lot, but I quit drinking soda on a regular basis a number of years ago. I went cold turkey. Non carbonated. Cold turkey. Gross. I don't know how I feel about carbonated turkey. Right? And I was so, as you'll recall, man, I was so freaked out because soda was so normalized to me that.

[Noel]

We're getting the shakes, brother.

[Ben]

I started to dream. Worse, I started to dream about Coca Cola. The advertising got into my mind.

[Noel]

I remember real phenomenon, dude.

[Ben]

I remember specifically I was in a fight with a vampire lord, right? Me with a long crucifix. Them with vampire powers. And partway through the fight. This is a nightmare. This never happened. This is just a dream partway through the fight in my own head. Guys, the vampire lord paused and said, let's take a time out and then drink a Coca Cola in front of me. Like, pop.

[Noel]

You know what I'm thinking about when you describe your dream there, Ben? I feel like it was on a cartoon or some commercial maybe, but it's. You know how they do spooky versions of commercials around the Halloween season where there's a vampire who I know there's one for sure, involving Reese's Peanut Butter Cups where it's like, how do you eat a Reese's? Oh. Which shows the vampire teeth marks. But I also picture a vampire, rather than popping the top on a Coca Cola, just sinking his fangs into it like a built in opener.

[Ben]

Which was weird to me when I woke up. Like, why do my nightmares of all things have commercial breaks? It's probably because Coca Cola is such a giant corporate entity throughout the world. And when we last left you with a dope sip to sip to. Sure, we'll give it. Sure. All right. Not everything is going to be a home, right?

[Noel]

You can't all be Aaliyah.

[Ben]

So. So when we last left you, our CEO at the time has this phenomenally Trump esque snippy conversation with reporters at an April 23, 1985 press conference in New York City where he says, I did not assume that New Coke is a success. This is a success for a time. It was, you know, like, do you remember New Coke?

[Noel]

I don't remember New Coke. I do remember Crystal Pepsi. And I think that tracks, you know, history wise as my. My time on this planet. Because it seems to me that Crystal Pepsi would have been a couple of years later, maybe even as as many as five. But I do distinctly remember the campaign around Crystal Pepsi and involving a song by Van Hagar AKA Van Halen with Sammy Hagar as a singer right now. Hey, there's no tomorrow. Come on. Yeah, it's like when they wanted soda to inspire you, you know, for a certain reason. Yeah. So it's that magic moment. Yeah. So we get out of here.

[Ben]

We know that most of the people who were already drinking Coca Cola, they kept drinking Coca Cola at the same level they did before the change in the formula. And Coke also to their credit, conducted additional surveys. And the surveys, everything they were finding or telling themselves they found. Those surveys seem to indicate most people did like this new sweeter taste, they would drink it in the future. Jolly good, tickety boo, tally ho. Until you get to the south, this is where it becomes a straight up culture war. The southeastern United States despises new Coke. They think it's Yankee stuff.

[Noel]

South got something to say. And they said it in the form of strongly worded letters and calls to the Coca Cola Company. You ever thought you ever even considered the idea of writing a letter to a corporation complaining about a product? I just can't imagine being that person. But you know, to the point we've been making, this is a cultural identity issue when it comes to Southerners.

[Ben]

Yeah. And I am that entity. Noel, as you as you know, we talked about this on a couple of other shows. I will take the time to write a letter, send it in the post. I like to type them handwritten. Seems a little too intimate.

[Noel]

I mean I'm not anti letter. I just. It's never really occurred to me to

[Ben]

write a letter to a corporation. I'm a weird dude. It's weird to be that guy. But you're absolutely right. The southeastern United States in particular was not having this. It became a straight up culture war. There's an oft cited observation from a professor out in Mississippi who said changing the formula of Coke is a quote, intrusion on tradition. And southern customers were also saying, why did you all introduce this in New York? And then other people were accusing Roberto.

[Noel]

Big league in U.S. big league in U.S. big time.

[Ben]

Roberto Goizier, the CEO at the time, he was accused of being a communist due to his Cuban heritage.

[Noel]

Oh boy. Well that's a bit of a reach, right? Uh huh, it sure is Ben. But there's a really great quote that sums it up. And let's be frank real quick guys. It ain't that Deep. You know what I mean? Like, it is funny how people get so bit outta shape about stuff like this. But nostalgia, as we often point out, is a hell of a drug. And one fella, a guy named Andy Gribble, which sounds like a character from a Tennessee Pal Rutabaga sketch. Do check those out, by the way, on our sister show, Stuff They Don't Want yout to Know is weekly listener mail episodes.

[Ben]

He sounds very Andy. What's his name? Andy Mulberry. Sanford and Sons.

[Noel]

Yeah. Yeah. Or like more like Andy Griffith, I think.

[Ben]

Andy Griffith. That's who I was trying to think of. Yeah.

[Noel]

And I believe it's Grimley is the name of the fictional character that our pal Tennessee has dreamt up over on Stuff they don't want you to know. So in Wisconsin, the Wausau Daily Herald reported on the trials and tribulations of Andy Gribble. Andy. Andy Gribbly. He had this to say and I just love it. It's just so extra and so melodramatic.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Noel]

So much of my life is changing outside of my control now. Coke. The one thing left from my childhood, the one thing I had left that gave me joy, I added that part has been changed.

[Ben]

How old is he?

[Noel]

Only 19. Man, he's got so much life to live. He's got no idea how. How bad things are going to get in San Antonio. This is multiple.

[Ben]

It's so crazy.

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[Ben]

Oh, God.

[Noel]

It's like Coke.

[Ben]

It's like when you have a nephew who realizes that atheism is an ideological stance and becomes insufferable.

[Noel]

Oh, boy.

[Ben]

Oh, boy. Right? In San Antonio, Thanksgivings get weird. Oh, they do in San Antonio, multiple mass media papers of the day found a guy named Dan Luack. L, A U C K. The AJC found him. Atlanta Journal Constitution, the Chicago Tribune, the New York Times, New York City failing New York Times. So this guy Dan bought his own coolers full of soda with him and two restaurants pre New Coke. Yeah, this is how.

[Noel]

Old Coke.

[Ben]

This is how. Yeah, this is how addicted the guy was. He drank five cases of what we're going to call Old Coke per week. He was very particular. 6.5 ounce glass bottles only. He was above cans. And he, to multiple reporters pulled New Coke's debut quote, the blackest day of my life. Continuing and saying, brother, you got a

[Noel]

lot of living left to do, my friend. Come on, man, this is as bad as it gets.

[Ben]

If this is your only speed bump in life, tell us where you're driving because that's an awesome road, dan continued. And he said from now on my life will be divided into BC and ac. Before the change of Coke and after the change, I honestly don't, I don't know what I'm going to do.

[Noel]

Man. I really hope he figured it out and got his life on track because this sounded like a real, a real stumbling block for our buddy Dan Lauke

[Ben]

on Don't let external forces decide your life.

[Noel]

Absolutely not. New Jersey newspaper themselves kind of editorialized around some of this culture war shenaniganry, citing that the the Coke was catering to panty waists.

[Ben]

I thought you'd like that one.

[Noel]

Panty Waists by abandoning its macho bite, whatever that means. This language is problematic at best. But I will say I do love the burn and the bite and I can't imagine though how, how does that equal macho? And they weren't making it less fizzy, they just made it a little sweeter. I do kind of wish there was an opportunity for us in the present day to taste new Coke. I wonder if there's vintage cans of it available on on the Internet.

[Ben]

Yeah, like ecto coolers. We'll have to look it up maybe for tangents and trivia.

[Noel]

That's true. We'll get that info to you before the end of the episode. And by the way Ben, they do occasionally, much like the seasonal McRib roll out ecto cooler from time to time. If anyone doesn't know what that is of a certain age. It was a Ghostbusters themed orange flavored non fizzy high C drink that had slimer on it and I believe it wasn't even green.

[Ben]

It wasn't even green. I don't think the packaging was.

[Noel]

The packaging was, but I don't think the juice was green. I think they really missed an opportunity.

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[Ben]

We also have a problematic character, a hero some would say to introduce you to today. Let's go to Seattle. There's a retired real estate speculator going by the name of, and this is his actual name, Gay Mullins. Yeah. Your parents choose your names.

[Noel]

It's sort of a grandpa name, sort

[Ben]

of an old one. It's up there with, you know, I had two people in my Tennessee family who were named Gaylord. They went by their middle names.

[Noel]

Gaylord's a fancy name. That's for fancy boys who, you know, wear cravats and ascots. Sometimes at the same time.

[Ben]

Yeah, sometimes both. They. They're the type to rock two monocles at once.

[Noel]

Drinking a mint julep on the porch on veranda.

[Ben]

Get offended if you just ask him to buy glasses. Anyway, shout out to the Gaylords. Shout out to Gay Mullins. He formed a protest group called get this old Cola Drinkers of America or ocd.

[Noel]

Ocd, yeah.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Noel]

These folks are. I'm sorry, I don't mean to yuck anybody's yum, but this is some serious overreaction.

[Ben]

If you just like, choose your battles. All right. Popeyes v. Chick Fil A. Another. Another weirdly off base culture war.

[Noel]

I'll walk it back, though. It's easy for me to say that in hindsight, but if I really like coke and all of a sudden they said no more coke for you, the one that you know and love, I might get a little bit out of shape too. And it also reminds me of like how George Lucas went out of his way to make sure that no one could get the pre original Star wars edited Star wars movies. And I think they finally walked that back. But it took years and years and years and people did not like that. And it's another good example of somebody in charge not knowing what made their thing cool and good in the first place.

[Ben]

That happens pretty often, especially in podcasting.

[Noel]

It's clearly happening here with this move fast and break stuff. CEO who can't seem to recognize that he's made a horrible mistake.

[Ben]

And we're also pre, pre widespread Internet. So our buddy, the speculator from Seattle, Mr. Mullins, he sets up a hotline where people can call and voice their complaints about New Coke or voice their support for the old cola drinkers of Americ America. He was interviewed in so many places, folks, he told People magazine, they, meaning Coca Cola, have taken away my freedom of choice. It's un American and a lot of people agreed with it. This is what you talked about in your work days, right? This is what you talked about on your first dates. Coca Cola was so worried that they hired a psychiatrist to get insight on what was happening with this consumer response. The psychiatrist they hired had to listen to the over 1500 calls a day to Coca Cola's official number, 1-800-GETCOKE.

[Noel]

That one on its own is a little funny. It's like a drug dealer hotline or something.

[Ben]

It does sound like it, right? And the psychiatrist told the top brass of Coca Cola, hey, these callers sound like they are talking about the death of a family member. People tried to sue Coca Cola for New Coke.

[Noel]

You know, Ben, I really appreciate you mentioning the whole pre Internet of it all, because you know how quickly the Internet turns on this kind of thing today. This would not have lasted a day before they rolled it back, or they would have teased it out a little bit before they made the swap and they would have just known, this is bad, this is not gonna work for us. But it's so interesting to see the way these things play out. And it also makes sense that it was thought to have been a success because there is a delayed reaction because we just don't get that instantaneous feedback sans Internet.

[Ben]

Yeah. And it's weird because outside of the south of the US Outside of the southeastern United States, New Coke was doing all right. It was a particularly exciting competitor alternative to Pepsi in the west, specifically the Pacific Northwest. But here's where they misstepped. Now hating on New Coke became a part of the zeitgeist. It was fun to make fun of it. You're on the Late show, you're the host of the Late show. You make fun of it of New Coke. Right? Had you're at the water cooler and you guys bond over making fun of New Coke. This created a lot of skepticism in potential international markets, especially Europe, and a lot of skepticism in the management of Coke itself. Some of the execs, or the Zecs, as we call them now, started to rebel.

[Noel]

There's a mutiny a brewing.

[Ben]

Yeah. They were subtly arguing with friends and neighbors to reintroduce the old formula of Coca Cola. Just one month after the rollout of New Coke and people were also hoarding old Coke. They were trying to order it from different companies or different suppliers in different countries. Monaco was actually a very popular. I don't know why, but Monaco was actually a very popular stronghold for old Coke. Yeah.

[Noel]

And former CEO Neville Isdell wrote in a memoir, Inside Coca Cola, that you could feel the tension at hq, which was fielding similar complaints even from bottlers. I just love the upstairs, downstairs of all this. Who said they were ostracized at their hometown country clubs.

[Ben]

Not that much downstairs, is it? If you've country club.

[Noel]

Yeah, no, it's pretty much all upstairs. One of our favorite quotes, Ben, that you found comes from hero of the day and Koch freedom fighter Gay Mullins, again a lead figure in the battle of New Coke, who told reporters that he'd been planning to move to Costa Rica before all of this went down. This is so crazy, he said, and we're quoting here, Ben, the Declaration of Independence. And the Revolutionary War occurred because of taxation without representation. There was no freedom of choice. We went to war to help England because another country was impinging on their freedom of choice. I feel that this is a battle of that magnitude. Yeah, I don't know about that, Mr. Mullins. I appreciate your passion, but maybe you could take that energy and put it into something that, like, matters.

[Ben]

Yeah. Like libraries or public education. Costa Rica.

[Noel]

This guy could really make a difference if he just got his priorities straight again. I know hindsight and all of that.

[Ben]

Everybody's got their thing, you what I mean.

[Noel]

But there was this represented. This was not. This was not a minority voice.

[Ben]

No, no, no.

[Noel]

It really did start becoming an absolute embarrassing fiasco for the Coca Cola Company.

[Ben]

Oh, yeah, and our buddy Mullins is surfing the outcry right at the crest of the wave. We have to remember that, as you said, Noel, there were a lot of ongoing lawsuits, especially from those third party bottlers pretty PO'd about having to make Diet Coke in the first place. So with all this public backlash, Coca Cola Company reverses course. And they say, hey, everybody, we're doing a press conference. It's July 11, 1985. We're bringing back the original formula of Coca Cola. This is just 79 days after the introduction of new Coke and they still made this new formulation. They just called it Coke. Then starting in 1990, they called it Coke 2. But the returning, purportedly original formula was called Coca Cola Classic. Here's the thing, guys. That old Coke, returning Coca Cola Classic was indeed not the old Coke. Give us a sound cue, Max. The conspiracies begin.

[Noel]

I mean, there's part of me that all along the way was thinking, I mean, it doesn't seem like very practical, but like, what if they did this whole thing just to create a renewed surge of appreciation when they gave the people back what they wanted in the first place?

[Ben]

One of the most popular conspiracy theories. Yeah.

[Noel]

And rebranded it as Coca Cola Classic is still what it's known as today.

[Ben]

That is true. Yeah.

[Noel]

Yeah, I think that's true. I think it's on the. On the can as Coke Classic.

[Ben]

Yeah. I only learned the phrase calling it the unleaded from my dad, who would if he was partying because he never was a traditional partier. So his idea of a big wild night out would to be drinking an unleaded Coca Cola, which meant not diet, not zero. Anyway, this is the truth. The pre New Coke Coke was made with cane sugar, which is why Mexican Coke always tastes better. Right? But the new quote unquote, old Coke was now made not with cane sugar, but with high fructose corn syrup. And man, Big Sugar was pissed off. They were super mad.

[Noel]

Yeah. And I mean, this had to have been a business decision, you know, to get around dependence on that industry, they launched their own campaign arguing that this new stuff was absolutely not the real thing. The Sugar association in Washington D.C. a lobbying group, of course, for the beet and cane sugar industry. A lot I love that they're wrapped up in one poor beet sugar.

[Ben]

Poor beet sugar.

[Noel]

Nobody talks about beet sugar, but apparently they're rolled up in that lobby as well. They took out a full page ad or multiple full page ads in national newspapers that read the following. Ben, you found this and give it to us.

[Ben]

The Old Cola Drinks of America is an organization that monitors consumer responses to soft drinks and other products. At a July 31 press conference, they turn their noses up at Classic Coke because it is sweetened with a cheaper sweetener, corn syrup instead of sugar.

[Noel]

America's sweetener sugar. And boy, oh boy, don't even get us started on the corruption and horrific

[Ben]

history Big Sugar of the sugar industry.

[Noel]

Do check out the podcast Big Sugar, an exploration of the history and very fraught and problematic present of the sugar industry by Celeste Headley.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Also to jump in here real quick, since sugar beets got us caught astray there, Sugar beets, according to sugar.org an actual website, sugar.org sugar beets account for 55% of total sugar produced in the United States.

[Noel]

And he dropped the knowledge just for you. So good. There he goes. No way.

[Ben]

Great Everybody okay, Great job.

[Noel]

I'm sorry for those strays. Beet sugar.

[Ben]

I'm not so.

[Noel]

I do love a roasted beet.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Beets are amazing. There's a great scene in Star Deep Space Nine about beets.

[Ben]

I have a different relationship with them because for a time in Central America, I could only afford ramalachas, the canned beets.

[Noel]

Oh, those are awful. That is not how you get a relationship with beets.

[Ben]

Yep, yep. Well, we'll repair the reputation one day. I hope. They quote Big Sugar, the Sugar Association. Excuse us. They quote Gabe Mullins saying, this is not the original formula. This is not the Coke of my youth. They were right. For 94 years, Coca Cola unleaded was in fact the real thing. It was sweetened with cane sugar. As we said, it was trusted across the world. But five years ago, says the Sugar association in these full page ads, Coca Cola began quietly changing its formula. Five years ago. Astute listeners, way before this big reveal of New Coke. The issue is that Gabe Mullins, despite being sort of the point joint man of the protest against New Coke, he did not initially reveal that drinking old Coca Cola had made him physically ill for a number of years. He first said, ah, maybe I'm getting older. But it seemed whatever had changed about the old Coke formula prior to the New Coke rollout was the culprit. Reporters learned there was a secret switcheroo with the old stuff. And also our guy, Gabe Mullins, our man Mullins, as the sugar boys told him, turned out to be not so much of a conscientious objector, not so much of a hero. He was a grifternal.

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[Noel]

Yeah, yeah. Our man Mullins wasn't the hero that we made him out to be. We're doing a little bit of a twist ending here. It turns out his old Cola Drinkers of America was in fact a bit of a cash grab. He'd hoped to cash in on the culture war. It does make a lot of these really over the top statements start to click a little more now in retrospect, by getting either Pepsi, Coca Cola, or Big Sugar to pay him off, shut him up. He even privately asked Coke to pay him 200 grand to endorse new old Coke, which makes your head spin. When it rolled out, they of course declined. When he realized that this was not gonna be a payday for him, he kind of lost interest and the public outcry kind of faded away. So it would seem. I was sort of in the moment just being like, who are these people? And I think now the question maybe remains, who are these people? Was this outcry entirely manufactured, or was there some actual humans that were genuinely upset about this?

[Ben]

There were actual people who were actually upset, but they were empowered, radicalized, and their complaints exacerbated by what we call astroturfing campaigns.

[Noel]

Remind us, non conspiracy listeners in the crowd, what astroturfing means.

[Ben]

So astroturfing, excellent question, is when a powerful organization attempts to disguise itself as an organic grassroots movement. Like recycling, Right? Yeah, check out our episodes on that. So AstroTurf versus Grassroots. That's the etymology.

[Noel]

It has a lot in common with the idea of crisis acting and like false flag attacks. It's sort of anything that's done with the intent to deceive the public, I believe, into thinking that there's a real, actual organic on the ground response to something, but it is in fact created for the benefit of the organization that it seems to be opposing. In some ways it's very interesting.

[Ben]

Or for the obscured proxy benefit of a larger corporate power. Like a lot of. Like a lot of maybe land rights protests that seem to be organic will ultimately be sponsored and bankrolled by large corporations that want to conduct resource extraction without environmental regulation. That happens all the time in the United States. And like you were saying, Noel, our buddy Gabe Mullins, his. His grift doesn't work, so he cancels massive planned protest without the support of Old cola Drinkers of America and similar other griffs. The public outcry starts to fade away. And New Coke Limp saw it in one form or one name or another until it is finally discontinued in July of 2002.

[Noel]

I had no idea it was that long. Yeah, dude, I had no idea. That's wild.

[Ben]

We know that in the wake of the death of New Coke RIP Multiple conspiracy theories proliferated. Now, Noel, you teased one of our favorite ones. It's the idea that Coke intentionally changed the formula because they were losing to Pepsi and they always planned to bring back Coca Cola Classic.

[Noel]

It just seems so risky. It seems so risky. And like a lot of conspiracies that are sort of easily debunked, usually if there's like this real circuitous route to get to a thing that involves all kinds of moving parts, typically the.

[Ben]

The.

[Noel]

What is it? Occam's Razor of it all. Like, it just doesn't really lend itself to being the way one would go about accomplishing a goal like that, you know?

[Ben]

Right, right. Like, if there is some sort of Illuminati and there are a lot of cabals, but if there is some sort of conspiratorial group of secret, very powerful people, I really doubt any of them look around in their abattoirs or in their boardrooms and say, you know what I love about this plan? I love how complicated it is. I love how we have multiple opportunities for this plan to fail. You guys know I love Mousetrap, the board game.

[Noel]

I always just like triggering the trap. I don't think I ever played the game. I don't think I ever played the game properly.

[Ben]

That's the only reason to play the game. I don't think people really play that game as, like, a tabletop rpg.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Played it before. The game is not very fun. And the problem with the game is you act, you try to play, and you actually bump the board and you just trigger off the Internet.

[Ben]

It's over. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We also know there are other conspiracy theories, one of which would be that Coca Cola designed New Coke to fail as a way to cover up that earlier shift from sugar to high fructose corn syrup. And before we get to our third conspiracy here, please, everybody do check out Stuff They Don't Want yout to Know's episode on America's addiction to corn. And, Noel, you found some HFCS facts for us.

[Noel]

Well, I don't know. I'm having a hard time parsing it out. Like, it does seem that, you know, consuming too much sugar, whether it's HFCS or actual Sugar, which they call added sugar, can lead to obviously excessive weight gain, potential for diabetes, empty calories, dental problems, et cetera, cardiovascular disease. And excessive intake of fructose from high fructose corn syrup or added sugars can increase liver fat, can lead to things like fatty liver, can raise triglycerides in the body, and can also contribute to things like insulin resistance. And I think that the issue with high fructose corn syrup is that it's just like really potent. And it's almost like if you're just consuming that on the regular, it's a hell of a lot worse than say if you're just getting normal organic sugars from fruits and things like that. So any overly sugary or sugar flavored beverages, sort of like putting a little sugar in your coffee or whatever. My godmother was telling me that her doctor when she asked, what false sweetener should I use, artificial sweetener should I use? The doctor actually recommended just using regular sugar. So there's even a whole. We should do this stuff that I want you to know sometime all of the various conspiracies around artificial sweeteners. But I was interested to hear that the doctor recommended just moderate use of regular sweeteners. Regular sweeteners. Sugar.

[Ben]

Yeah. Fructose metabolizes differently. Please check. Check out our earlier episode, how Corn Took Over America back from, I want to say 2023, but.

[Noel]

Well, and we have to think about the behind the scenes pivot of like, what it means for a big corporation like Coke to pivot to corn syrup away from being embedded in the sugar industry.

[Ben]

Hundreds of millions of dollars, Big sugar. So pissed. Yeah, yeah.

[Noel]

But I'm saying, like, they had a reason because it was more cost effective for them. And that also led to this increased reliance on corn based products. And then of course, we've got ethanol and things like that.

[Ben]

Of course we have ethanol and flex fuel. And we also have a third conspiracy around this bizarre saga of New Coke. There are people now who will tell you with a straight face that it was actually a move to get rid of all the coca derivatives and assuage the DEA under the Reagan administration's heightened war on drugs. Should we talk about plausible? Well, Noel, you mentioned in our first leader here that there is a processing mechanism with Coca Cola today that will take out all the cocaine of the Coca plant. Right?

[Noel]

Yeah. Ben and I actually, after the fact, when we finished recording the episode, dug around a little bit and found the article that I was thinking, thinking of. Coca Cola produces $3 billion worth of pure cocaine. Every single year that gets processed, extracted from the product that they end up using to make the drink, and then it is shipped to a massive pharmaceutical manufacturing company that uses it for topical anesthesia.

[Ben]

All right, that makes sense. And none of these conspiracies can be conclusively proven. In fact, a lot of these theories and similar theories can be debunked pretty easily. But they're still fun to think about. This is the end of the saga. What we can tell you is New Koch's failure was due to a number of factors, but it genuinely seems the primary issue of that failure was not taste, it was cultural identity. No, people were ready to lash out at something and this new spin on their beloved nostalgia ridden standby just happened to be in the right place at the wrong or the perfect time. You know what I mean? Something to get mad at.

[Noel]

Oh, gosh, yeah. People love flexing righteous indignation. Ben, I love this fact that you found. If we're wrapping up and talking about new Coke for a new generation and the nostalgia play of it all. And like the big business of nostalgia, on May 21st in 2019, Coca Cola Company announced that they were going to to reissue or do a special drop of New Coke as a tie in for the very nostalgia driven Netflix series Stranger Things.

[Ben]

That is correct. And some of us may remember. If you're a Stranger Things fan. Some of us may remember. There's a moment where I think it's the character Dustin who drinks a new Coke and says, I think it's good. I don't think it's that bad. And his whole crew goes, what the heck is wrong with you? Get out of here. Yeah, we also know as we're wrapping up that Coca Cola does clean pennies due to phosphoric acid.

[Noel]

Well, it'll also dissolve corrosion off of your battery terminals. In your battery.

[Ben]

That is true. Oh, well done. Yeah, that is true. Did you ever have to do that?

[Noel]

I have had that. I have done that before and it works like a charm. And it's real satisfying to watch.

[Ben]

It is. It's a cool science experiment at home. We also know that to be fair, folks, if you're hearing about this saga and you're worried about the Coca Cola Company, don't. Just don't worry about them. They own way more brands than you might imagine. They control soft drinks, water, sports drinks, coffee, tea, juice, even dairy products. Coca Cola is all up in your refrigerator.

[Noel]

I think they even not that recently, but in the last five years acquired Topo Chico, which is a delightful Mineral water that for a long time felt a little more regional and kind of special. But it's another good example of a giant corporation, sort of like the microbreweries acquired by Bushmills, still keeping the old school packaging and not making a big show of the fact that that they acquired just all of a sudden becomes more available.

[Ben]

Yeah, they own Sprite. They own Fanta, which I think should be an episode in its own right.

[Noel]

We've talked about Fanta, I believe. I don't know if it was as a mention in another episode, but we talked about the apple scraps and the wartime of it all.

[Ben]

Wait for it. An episode in its own Reich.

[Noel]

Oh, that's right. Do dig through the archives. I'm sorry. Certain that we've done something about the history of Fanta. Super interesting.

[Ben]

Absolutely. And folks, thank you so much for tuning in. We are big fans of soda in particular, we are big supporters of learning hidden history. And you know what? I was looking back and I asked my parents if they had ever tried a new Coke and they said they did. It was too sweet. But it was a culture war. Here endeth the saga. We can't wait for your input, folks. Please do check out our earlier episode on discontinued sodas throughout history. And big, big thanks to Our super producer, Mr. Max New Coke Williams. Max Nolan. I are going to lie about you every time you're not around round. We're going to say the only soda that Max drinks is vintage New Coke.

[Jonathan Strickland]

I mean, considering I wasn't not even born when this came out. As you're giving me another chance to drop how much younger I am than y' all I am. I am fine with that rumor because I can quickly and easily disprove it.

[Ben]

We'll see. Sometimes you become the monsters you hunt, Max. All right, that's a little cryptic. Big thanks to. Speaking of monsters we hunt. Big thanks to Jonathan Strickland, AKA the Quizzed her Noel. Who else? Who else? Who else?

[Noel]

Well, geez Louise Ben, Christopher Osiotes and Eve Jeffcoats here in spirit. AJ Bahamas Jacobs, the puzzler. I'm gonna do one of yours this time. Rachel Big Spinach Lance, the doctor of underwater explosions, who we reference at the end of every episode despite her only having been on the show twice.

[Ben]

Right, right. World expert in underwater explosions. Big thanks also to the rude dudes of ridiculous crime. If you dig a us, you'll dig them. Thank you as always so much for tuning in. Join us in the near future when we explore the trials and travails of a little thing called SantaCon. I've been our research associate for this episode at Noel. Thank you ma'. Am. What's the last soda you drank?

[Noel]

Like I said, I'm a DDP man. Diet Dr. Patrick. I haven't had one this week, but I really do like making myself a little pomegranate spritz. So I'm a lacroix boy. We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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