← Ridiculous History
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- [00:00]
Ben Bullen
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you as always, so much for tuning in. We have made it through halftime on our series pertaining to, you know, the super bowl halftime show. That's Mr. Max Williams, our super producer.
- [00:44]
Noel Brown
Max. Max.
- [00:45]
Ben Bullen
Max Maximus. That's Noel Brown over there. They, they call me Ben Bullen at different times.
- [00:54]
Noel Brown
Ben, how did you enjoy the Ridiculous History halftime show that took place?
- [00:58]
Ben Bullen
Loved it.
- [00:59]
Noel Brown
In between.
- [01:00]
Ben Bullen
Loved it.
- [01:01]
Noel Brown
Yeah, that, that, that magician. Holy cow, he made all of the people in the cheap seats disappear.
- [01:08]
Ben Bullen
Yes, yes. Which is maybe a statement about class as well.
- [01:14]
Noel Brown
I think so. I was very impressed with the double meaning of his magic act.
- [01:18]
Ben Bullen
And folks, if you have not heard part one of our series on the history of the super bowl halftime show, get thee to thy podcast platform of choice. Check out part one. We're diving straight into part two. Excellent setup, Noel, because we talked previously about how this began or previously on Ridiculous History. This whole halftime show thing began with marching bands which are still, you know, you'll still find them there. But people began to branch out. Not everything worked immediately. There were some hot air balloon accidents, Shenanigans. Shenandoah. Yeah. And you set us up again so beautifully. Can we go to the quote from Steven Wood, writing for History?
- [02:07]
Noel Brown
Boy, could we ever. Steven woods says by the 1980s, the Super bowl was must see TV. But as we mentioned previously, the halftime show was becoming a punchline. Not even the second jetpack appearance at Super Bowl. I'm bad at Roman numerals. XIX. Hold on, let's see. What is that? 20? No, I don't know. No, it's not 20. That would be XX. What's XIX?
- [02:35]
Ben Bullen
Guys, it is 19, thank you very much.
- [02:37]
Noel Brown
That happened in 1985 and it couldn't shake the malaise. Recognizing the need to change the narrative producers of the Super Bowl. Heck, that's 23, right?
- [02:48]
Ben Bullen
23.
- [02:49]
Noel Brown
Xx. II halftime show in 1989 created one of the oddest experiences in television history.
- [02:58]
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- [03:36]
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Noel Brown
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- [04:42]
Ben Bullen
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Noel Brown
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Ben Bullen
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- [05:07]
Unknown
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- [05:42]
Noel Brown
Coca Cola, of course, was the sole sponsor for a show incorporating 3D technology. This is in 1989, y'all called New New Optics. That's clever. It's like New Optics.
- [05:57]
Ben Bullen
N U O P ticks T X.
- [05:59]
Noel Brown
It's got an accent because it's extreme, right?
- [06:02]
Ben Bullen
Right. That is not a complex Roman numeral. That is the brand name of the technology. So here's the idea they had. And this is familiar to anybody who saw the rise of 3D in cinema. Coca Cola, who, you know, reigns here in our home state of Georgia. Yeah, they got 26 million pairs of 3D glasses. And they ran, they distributed this when you would buy Coca Cola products. They even went to print and newspapers were running these graphic, almost like IKEA level instruction manuals on how to use them. Kind of the way that the British government had to teach people what constituted an emergency and when to call an emergency line.
- [06:53]
Noel Brown
Okay, kids, it's time to put on your 3D glasses. Sorry. Do you guys remember the Lonely Island? I think they got a little more famous doing SNL stuff.
- [07:04]
Ben Bullen
No. What is comedy?
- [07:05]
Noel Brown
Yeah, comedy, exactly. But they back in the day had a delightful YouTube channel and they had this like multi part spoof of I guess the OC called the Boo. And in one of the episodes there's like a cartoon squirrel that was instructing the kids at the audience at home how to wear their 3D glasses. And parts of the episode were done in 3D. And I think they're making fun of this very thing, this idea of like, wow, the future. And it's probably pretty corny and pretty bad.
- [07:33]
Ben Bullen
Similar to other top down tech innovations that failed. Which we should totally do an episode on. Remember 3D televisions and all the creators of those, the manufacturers wanted you, the consumer, to buy them so bad.
- [07:50]
Noel Brown
Yeah, that was a pretty big dice roll on their part. One that came up, snake eyes, we call it.
- [07:56]
Ben Bullen
A big swing in corporate America. So people were very interested. It was a night everybody loves. An ostensibly free gift, a bit of swag. And so back to our pal Stephen Wood. There was one bar owner in San Francisco who wanted his customers to have 3D glasses for the game when they watched it at his restaurant. So he bought $100 worth of coke products. Still, there was cynicism, just like we were describing with 3D televisions in general. The cynicism is best summed up by a guy named Bob Costas. We recognize him from NBC Sports. He said, he said, and I'm not going to editorialize too much, he said, this is the single proudest moment of my life as he introduced the 3D show.
- [08:50]
Noel Brown
Hey, who are we to say that Bob Costas wasn't Bob being completely sincere? We didn't see where his tongue was positioned.
- [08:56]
Unknown
You know, also on the side here. Congratulations to Bob Costas on his retirement. He retired after these most recent playoffs.
- [09:04]
Ben Bullen
So he retired peacefully. Congratulations, Bob. The succession of power is always a very dicey moment, for sure.
- [09:14]
Noel Brown
But yeah, you're right, Ben. I think I'm being a bit coy. He did have a bit of a tone when he introduced the show. A bit Of a skeptical sort of sarcastic vibe to him. And then the show began.
- [09:26]
Ben Bullen
Bebop Bamboozled.
- [09:28]
Noel Brown
Bebop Bamboozled. Ben. What the heck is that with? Featuring Elvis Presto. Yeah, I see.
- [09:34]
Ben Bullen
I get it.
- [09:35]
Noel Brown
He is indeed a 3D magician. Now maybe that wasn't his entire bag, but it was tonight. Cause he did magic tricks while 3D little bits and bobs flashed around behind him. And the dancers performed 1950s swinger music. They're really doing a past meets future kind of thing here. All surrounded by revolving cars, which I'm assuming were like old timey cars. This is very odd. And spinning planets because, you know, it's.
- [10:04]
Ben Bullen
The future space to show animation capabilities. There's actually. There's a little bit of soft power in the halftime show because people across the world will tune in to watch clips of it. So this is also exhibiting technology.
- [10:19]
Noel Brown
It's a world fair.
- [10:19]
Ben Bullen
It's like a world expo. Yes, World expo. And one. One guy at this bar in San Francisco did say this show was good by saying the following. It's good because it keeps people glued to the TV instead of getting up to get a beer and go into the bathroom.
- [10:41]
Noel Brown
This guy, a cowboy in San Francisco. He was one of those San Francisco cowboys you hear a lot about.
- [10:46]
Ben Bullen
Unfortunately, the 3D viewing kind of fizzled with the public. It's a big ask to require people to get paraphernalia just to witness a thing. Someone said. Someone. An unimpressed reviewer said this is like watching a football halftime show in the distorted reflection of an old mirror.
- [11:09]
Noel Brown
That's very dystopian sounding. I like that. Almost like a black mirror. But you know, it's funny. I mean, this is 1989, and 3D viewing experiences when put in the hands of mega capable futurist directors like James Cameron certainly have come a long way. But still a relatively unpleasant and not universally beloved or adopted technology. It really has to be like a gravity or an avatar kind of situation to get the butts in the seats. It seems like it's a bit of an afterthought for a lot of movies. Sort of tack it on after the fact.
- [11:41]
Ben Bullen
Yeah. But this again, this idea of soft power, of an opportunity to exhibit technology that never really left for a moment. You know, people kept trying to innovate the super bowl to in their minds, improve upon the formula. And one of the big things they wanted to do was to include more western celebrities. And that's why in 1991, the halftime show finally featured the new kids on the block in Kotb or it would have, but. Well, it did, but they couldn't do it live because the Gulf War had also started. But here's what happened. I can give you guys the skinny. The concern there that results in the tape delay entirely comes because the US Was at a decision point or a crossroads wherein it may have been completely possible. And this is a valid concern that news, international news of disaster and military excursion may have preempted the Super Bowl. So that's like they're putting it on tape delay because there are active operations in the Gulf and they're worried that things might go, you know, sidewise.
- [13:05]
Noel Brown
Right. And that would maybe be a little bit of a bad look to have like the new kids bopping around, shaking their groove, things interrupted by news of, you know, some sort of disastrous tragedy involving our troops.
- [13:20]
Ben Bullen
Let's fast forward to the next year. Yeah. Where we see some catty behavior on the parts of network TV outfits who used to be a big deal pre streaming. So FOX did not have rights to the game and they instead said, you know what? We can't do the super bowl live. We're going to do a live episode of a show that I loved earlier that did not age well. In Living Color. It did not age well on film. But like, you know, like, almost like a Helen of Troy of comedy, it launched a thousand comedic ships. You know, the weigh ins did amazing stuff. Later, Jim James Carrey.
- [14:04]
Noel Brown
Yes.
- [14:05]
Ben Bullen
Did amazing stuff. And also, of course, the Fly Girls, hats off.
- [14:10]
Noel Brown
Well, if I'm not mistaken, J. Lo was an original Fly Girl.
- [14:15]
Ben Bullen
Yes, sir.
- [14:15]
Noel Brown
Definitely a big comedic kind of hallmark, for sure. But you're right, Ben, when you go back and watch it now, there are some things that do not stand the test of political correct scrutiny. Now that I'm like all about 100% political correctness, but boy, oh boy, is some of that stuff a little cringe.
- [14:32]
Ben Bullen
I'm about regular correctness.
- [14:34]
Noel Brown
There you go.
- [14:35]
Ben Bullen
I think we both argue CBS had, you know, they had the game. And in 1992, their halftime show that they were airing was a snow themed production starring Gloria Stefan, whom I know we all all love.
- [14:51]
Noel Brown
And the beat of the rhythm of the night.
- [14:53]
Ben Bullen
Yeah. And two Olympic qualified ice skaters, they had a neck and neck with the live version of In Living Color because again, it's the early 90s. People love in Living Color. Well.
- [15:06]
Noel Brown
And there just weren't that many choices and that show was such like a pop cultural phenomenon that they absolutely could compete with the halftime show as it existed at that time. So the Organizers realized that they needed to change their game up.
- [15:21]
Ben Bullen
Yeah, they had to level up. And this brings us to January 31, 1993. Our pals, Bonnie Berkowitz and Lazaro Gameo that we noted earlier in part one. They say, look, you had to come up with a show that could not be ignored. You had to keep the viewers. So they had James Earl Jones set up the show in his best voice of God intonation. You know, very flight of Dragons, very.
- [15:55]
Noel Brown
Darth Vader that is now owned by the Disney corporation. And did you know this? Yes, unfortunately, they literally. I mean, he passed away sadly, but they will be able to continue using his vocal likeness very legally for all time.
- [16:11]
Ben Bullen
Very legally. It's kind of like how don't be evil is different from be good. So shout out to Flight of Dragons. By the way, it's an amazing animated series about the. It's a discourse about the nature of science and magic. Anyway, I'm walking. I'm walking down the street. You're going to love it. You're going to love it. You should absolutely check it out. Our buddies at stuff to blow your mind have a great weird house cinema on it. So James Earl Jones is setting up a relatively long introduction, and the whole time he is setting up this introduction, Michael Jackson, the king of pop, is just standing on stage. This episode of ridiculous history is brought to you by ebay Motors.
- [17:00]
Noel Brown
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- [17:10]
Ben Bullen
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Noel Brown
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Ben Bullen
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Noel Brown
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Ben Bullen
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Ben Bullen
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Noel Brown
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Ben Bullen
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- [18:36]
Ben Bullen
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- [18:38]
Noel Brown
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- [21:09]
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- [21:48]
Ben Bullen
So James Earl Jones, the King of Pop, half of the Rose bowl stadium is just screaming. They have Beatlemania for this. They have Jackson mania for this. And like a minute and a half passes while this guy has to just sort of stand there and listen to James Earl Jones.
- [22:07]
Noel Brown
Well, you know, the thing about that is you could look at it that way for sure, but I was also thinking about, I wasn't even including the James Earl Jones part in my mind. He was just standing there for a minute and a half in silence, which would be very expensive. Minute and a half of television broadcast time. But there is something powerful about the anticipation of Michael Jackson doing his moves. Everyone knew he just loomed so fricking large at this point. I think it's really telling that the first, first big pop group that was hired to do the halftime show were the new kids on the block, who, while, you know, pretty big in the teeny bopper scene, not even remotely the level legacy, you know, you know, royalty, that is Michael Jackson, the King of Pop. So depending on how things went down, this could very well have been their level up.
- [22:58]
Ben Bullen
Yeah, I don't think we're disagreeing. I think that's a same page thing because he also has to hold for applause. Right? We have to remember that Earl Jones is coming through a panoply of speakers.
- [23:11]
Noel Brown
Literal voice of God. Not literal, but I mean the huge, massive booming voice, omnipresent voice at the.
- [23:17]
Ben Bullen
Very least for the stadium. And so Jackson lets this run through. He pauses for applause. If you've ever done a successful live show or public performance, you know you have to hold for applause. That's why good comedy shows take longer live anyway. So not only does Michael Jackson rock the crowd, but he also probably converts a couple of new fans and we'll see. There's a Jackson family legacy to the super bowl in just a second. But not everyone was pleased. This is also part of the Jackson legacy. I would argue because just like Elvis Presley, not Presto Presley, the other Elvis Jackson was seen as a bit too risque, a bit too vulgar. Because this is in his. This is in his prime of his dancing, when he would grab his crotch and kind of thrust up, you know, get those. Get those Kegels in. And people got angry.
- [24:22]
Noel Brown
Well, I mean, remember when people got freaked out about Elvis?
- [24:25]
Ben Bullen
Elvis, yeah.
- [24:26]
Noel Brown
This is like a next level version of that. Because Michael Jackson's moves were pretty suggestive. You know, the crotch grab, the gyrating, all of that stuff. And I could see how this would maybe get certain parts of middle America in a bit of a tizzy.
- [24:42]
Ben Bullen
Yeah, people who are bad at sex moves, maybe. Maybe we're a family show. This entry into the halftime history of Michael Jackson. This is the new era of the megastar performer. You fast forward a few years to 1996. You've got Diana Ross. And Diana Ross does a banger set at Super Bowl 30. And when she leaves, she does. She does a joke that honestly, a lot of my old friends have done. You know how if you're ever hanging out, this is such a dumb joke. You see a fire truck go by with the sirens blaring, I love to say, oh, crap, that's my uber Diana Ross.
- [25:34]
Noel Brown
You're a bit of a firebug, aren't you, Ben? Nobody knows this about you.
- [25:38]
Ben Bullen
Untrue allegations.
- [25:40]
Noel Brown
It is untrue. I made it up entirely. But yeah, Ross did that. But actually could follow through with it because a helicopter descended and she just goes, that's my ride. And then jumps onto the helicopter and flies away. After she finished her last song, Take Me Higher, which is also going to come into play again. A different version, not of this song, but of the same name. A song, same name, different era, same jubilant, high flying mentality.
- [26:10]
Ben Bullen
Yeah, but I feel like Diana Ross. Well, I prefer the Ross thing.
- [26:14]
Noel Brown
Are you saying Diana Ross is a better artist than Creed, Ben?
- [26:18]
Ben Bullen
No, I'm saying no. I'm saying art is subjective and you can enjoy what you wish.
- [26:23]
Noel Brown
That's also true. No, that's also true. And no, I do think that Diana Ross probably will go down in history a little higher on the list of great artists than Creed, but to each their own. And this began with the success of these super bowl halftime shows, began the era that we know today where it was all about who was going to get booked. And what did that mean for their prominence, their position in, you know, pop music, in pop culture with names like James Brown, ZZ Top, Boyz II Men, the Temptations, Queen Latifah, Stevie Wonder. You had your Phil Collins. They were trying to appeal to Britney.
- [27:01]
Ben Bullen
Spears, of course, Mary J. Blige, and, you know, NSync, the inheritors of New Kids on the Block. And the issue here is that the concept of a solidified headliner wasn't quite there yet. There's still a variety show. Everybody in the musical acts we have just named was functioning in collaboration with another, you know, Britney Spears, huge star, Mary J. Blige, huge star, N Sync, huge group. They all appear at the same 2001 halftime show together at a point where arguably all three of them separately could have sold out their own stadiums 100%.
- [27:44]
Noel Brown
And, I mean, they still do that sometimes to this day. I mean, the one with Usher, for example, yeah, he was the headliner, but they had some guests popular jumping, you know, in and out throughout. There were also big names in and of themselves. I want to say Mary J. Blige was one of those.
- [27:59]
Unknown
She's showed up a couple times now. So usually now what they'll do is they'll have a headliner, and the headliner will have some other people come up, even sometimes bigger name people. The closest comparison I've seen recently was probably the LA super bowl where they had, like, Snoop Dogg, Eminem, Kendrick Lamar. Kendrick Lamar, they had like that. That's probably the closest one where they had, like, okay, we have a bunch of people, poor, big name, and that's kind of where they're going. They weren't like this, but like, you know, something like the weekend with blah, blah, blah.
- [28:28]
Ben Bullen
Right. Blah, blah, blah was the best comparison for someone who is somehow not seeing a halftime show. If you've seen Saturday Night Live and their cold opens, they. They. They will bring in cameos, who are often famous actors or comics in their own right. And that's sort of. That. That's not even sort of. That is the formula of the halftime show. You like this person, guess who also shows up at the bridge? You know what I mean?
- [28:57]
Noel Brown
Oh, for sure.
- [28:57]
Ben Bullen
And sometimes just for the bridge, just walks out in a crazy costume with a crazy set, does a couple bars, and then is off to the races.
- [29:07]
Noel Brown
Sometimes walking across an actual bridge.
- [29:10]
Ben Bullen
Sometimes. Yes. And. And this is another thing about soft power, which can be projected internationally. True. But we also see the halftime celebration as an attempt to unify America, including demographics of America that fundamentally disagree on some weird things. Look, what we're setting you up for here is the other part of the Jackson family legacy, the boob the old 008.
- [29:46]
Noel Brown
It's true, it's a palindrome as well. There have been quite a few halftime shows that definitely were remembered and are talked about and kind of enter the annals of pop culture. But there is one that will probably go down in history as one of the most infamous.
- [30:06]
Ben Bullen
Changed my life.
- [30:07]
Noel Brown
Well, it changed a lot of, a lot of young people's lives. I imagine Stephen Wood from History puts it like this. If the King of Pop's performance was one of the greatest in super bowl history, his sister Janet Jackson's showing at Super Bowl 38, that's XXXVII, in 2004 was the most controversial. This was produced in conjunction with mtv, who kind of curated a star studded spectacle starring Justin Timberlake and Janet Jackson, wherein during a very key line in the song Rock youk Body, Jackson removes this kind of. It's like a removable bra kind of thing. Yeah, I guess all bras are removable. But it's like the piece on its own was like almost like a.
- [31:00]
Ben Bullen
It's like a carapace. It was like a panel on a. There you go. Like that panel.
- [31:07]
Noel Brown
Exactly.
- [31:08]
Ben Bullen
Popped off the. He popped off the. The breast panel. Wherein for a brief, very brief moment you can see an exposed breast. You can also see if I, if I recall, there was some kind of jewelry or accoutrement around the nipple.
- [31:23]
Noel Brown
A bit of a nipple ring. Yeah, well, you know what? It wasn't, it wasn't a piercing.
- [31:27]
Ben Bullen
No, it was like a ring.
- [31:28]
Noel Brown
It was like a pasty, like a metal pasty. But the.
- [31:31]
Ben Bullen
That looked kind of star like or whatever.
- [31:33]
Noel Brown
Star like. It's kind of sharp looking actually the edges, if I remember correct. But Ben, wasn't there supposed to be a tape delay on this too? Like, isn't there always. I think the FCC requires and broadcast in live events for there to be like a 30 second delay so that the hot little hands of the people running the broadcast can kind of censor something after the fact.
- [31:54]
Ben Bullen
Yeah, same way you have a tape delay in live interviews. Especially if you got someone spicy who might drop a few George Carlin esque inappropriate words back to our pals Berkowitz and Gamio. They say, say Jackson's right nipple was televised. Forget this. 9, 16 of a second and immediately the FCC was on the case. There were fines, there were public apologies, there was, there were legal actions. You know, Justin and Justin and Janet. I talk like I hang out with them. Didn't. Didn't agree on the narrative. They eventually coalesced into a unified front saying hey, this was a quote, wardrobe malfunction. Which is where the phrase enters the American lexicon.
- [32:50]
Noel Brown
What a fun one. Yeah, it would seem that the FCC wouldn't let them be or let them be them. So let them see, they tried to shut them down on mtv, but nevermind. Sorry, Eminem was later. But yeah, man, wardrobe malfunction. What a. You know, I gotta. You gotta respect people that come up with like what would clear clearly be considered a spin. But also something that is just so perfect that it just gets adopted and used for other stuff. I mean certainly used in a very tongue in cheek manner the idea of a wardrobe malfunction. Because we talked about this a little bit in the first part of this series, or at least we raised the question that we promised we were going to get to. Was this accidentally on purpose?
- [33:31]
Ben Bullen
This was definitely on purpose. As later research would show. It showed just like a nipple for 916 of a silk. Second and the. I. I would say what we're seeing here is PR level damage control. I also, I also got to say, you know, I feel like Justin Timberlake's handlers told him to pretend this was an accident.
- [33:58]
Noel Brown
Right.
- [33:58]
Ben Bullen
Not to be too legalistic, but their rationalization and their argument was that that panel over the breast came off accidentally. Wardrobe malfunction. But it was clearly planned.
- [34:09]
Noel Brown
I would argue that that wardrobe did exactly what supposed to do.
- [34:13]
Ben Bullen
Exactly.
- [34:14]
Noel Brown
No malfunction whatsoever.
- [34:16]
Ben Bullen
Yeah, and thank you for being cool you guys, because that certainly rocked my world. Janet rocked my body. Awesome. Yes. Wood continues. People were writing into newspapers. A lot of folks have a lot of time back then. And one person who subscribed to a newspaper in Pennsylvania said look, the FCC should fine Justin Timberlake and Janet Jackson $1 million each. The FCC did fine CBS because they were the broadcasters. So the buck stops with them. And for a time, Janet Jackson is unfortunately blacklisted by TV and radio stations. Timberlake gets away, which I think is a statement about both racism and how America treats women.
- [35:05]
Noel Brown
One million percent, Ben. I mean, not to be grandstandy about it or anything, but it's just. It just reeks of inequality, you know, I mean the way Timberlake was almost treated like a boss, you know, haha, good job jt. And Janet Jackson was treated like a pariah. Not to mention that the whole presentation, let's just call it itself, is pretty sexist and gross, right? Like a dude just reaching out and pulling off a piece of a woman's clothing. To which she responded, if I'm not Mistaken, like, with shock. Feigned shock, obviously, but it's almost like, oh, my goodness. How dare you, you cad. You know, it's. But it's. That's. That's old timey, weird, gross behavior.
- [35:45]
Ben Bullen
Right again. Look, Timberlake is lionized for things that Janet Jackson is vilified for.
- [35:55]
Noel Brown
That's exactly right. Well put.
- [35:57]
Ben Bullen
And this. We don't want to end on this one. Let's go to something we're very excited about. One time. True story. Ridiculous Historians. Our pals over at a band called Creed had their own halftime show, and it was very much one of the most things ever. This episode of Ridiculous history is brought to you by ebay Motors.
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- [41:10]
Noel Brown
It was a thing that happened in sports and entertainment history and look at the time. Creed was huge. I think what Was this. What year was this, Ben?
- [41:21]
Ben Bullen
This would have been 2001.
- [41:24]
Noel Brown
Oh. So really, really just post 9 11. Also at the height of Creed's popularity in 2001, that was. I think I junior in high school. I was even. I was on the Creed train in a big way. I saw them play an arena show in my hometown in Augusta, Georgia, and I was super on board with that record. My own prison, which, like, was at multiple smash hits that they regaled the assembled crowd with. At this super bowl halftime show, I believe it was the Denver Broncos and the Dallas Cowboys. Dallas did lose the game by two points, 26 to 24. But people don't really talk about this game as much as they talk about what is described by some as an electrifying halftime performance by Creed.
- [42:12]
Ben Bullen
Yes. Yeah. Also described as a thing. So I love that we're getting into this. Before we go into it, we gotta give you some context, folks. Halftime shows are not just for the Super Bowl. Now you can see halftime performances in plenty of other games. And the formula is relative. Relatively the same. Pull the biggest celebrity who is willing to play along with you, either actually performing or pretending to perform. Which we'll get to after this. But of course, our old nemeses that we have now buried the hatchet with Sheryl Crow has performed back in 05. We'll see, you know, your Reba McEntires, your dolly pardons, and of course, Pitbull, because Pitbull's is everything. Yeah. Mr. Worldwide.
- [43:03]
Unknown
Honorable Pitbull. Read how I wrote it.
- [43:08]
Ben Bullen
And you'll see, you'll see tons of different celebrities. However, we know it's very important to our purposes tonight to talk about the Creed performance. And we're doing so with help from Andy Watkins, writing for Pro Football Network.
- [43:27]
Noel Brown
That's right. Lead singer as we know him. We know him. You might love him. It's fine if you love him, Scott.
- [43:34]
Ben Bullen
He loves himself.
- [43:35]
Noel Brown
He sure does.
- [43:35]
Ben Bullen
Is that the most important thing?
- [43:37]
Noel Brown
I think it really is. Singer Scott Stap took the stage. He was wearing a. A custom made cowboy. Cowboy is a jersey with his own last name on the back, which is very white. I believe it has some blue kind of like, you know, touches here and there. And the band launched into. It's not called Take Me Higher. Dang it. I was wrong. But that is the lyric. It's can you take me higher? The song is just called Higher. However, I was just hearkening back to that D. Diana Ross performance where she performed a song called Take Me Higher on a helicopter On a helicopter, of course. And this was a big song. Can you take me higher? Boo doobiddle, boo. You know the one. And this is as the Cowboys cheerleaders bopped along in the background in sync with the band, y'all, I don't know if you've seen this, but this is a really fun couple's Halloween costume, where you have one party dressed up as Scott Stapp with perhaps a mobile fan blowing his hair, and then someone else dressed up as one of the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders.
- [44:37]
Unknown
Now the dude's flying around on sheets.
- [44:39]
Noel Brown
Yeah, with the sheets. We'll get to the sheets. That's exactly right. So the cheerleaders are bopping around. You also have acrobats jumping around, doing somersaults in the air, pretending to be flying whilst hanging onto these long strands of fabric. The idea being that they were supposed to be taking wing or whatever.
- [45:00]
Ben Bullen
Very Cir de Soleil. So aerialists are performing, you know, very Cirque du Soleil. And then Creed pivots to the next track. Cause again, the soft power of the halftime show is to unify a divided country towards support of football, but also towards support of the American experience or experiment. So Creed's next track is My Sacrifice. And during this, you could say it is sincere, you could say it is manipulative, but it is true. They. Because it's 2001 in the context, right? So they show rescue workers during the horrific events of September 11, when D.C. and New York City were attacked by terrorists.
- [45:48]
Noel Brown
And really quickly wanted to add. Andy Watkins, writing over at Pro Football Network, was clearly a fan. He writes about all this stuff in very glowing terms, describing it as emotional and patriotic, a performance given by Creed which was, he says, sorely needed and unexpectedly gallop galvanizing. Which we will get to.
- [46:08]
Ben Bullen
Yeah. Here's the thing that I wanted to say. The. They go to this very deep place. They touch the hearts of everybody watching everybody in the audience, and then they shift to another song. They end with a song called Don't Stop Dancing.
- [46:26]
Noel Brown
That doesn't sound like a Creed song. I know. What the heck is Don't Stop Dancing? Is that like Jackson 5 song it.
- [46:34]
Ben Bullen
Also, this is why I ask whether this is this memorial to the events of 911 is a great song, cynical. Or whether it is sincere. Because that's a weird tonal shift, isn't not.
- [46:49]
Noel Brown
It is, for sure. I don't know the song. I don't think it was one of their hits that has stood the test of time. But I do have to, you know, devil's advocate here. Give credit where credit. Just do the lyric. It is not just some sort of like, total, totally pat, you know, song to shake your butt.
- [47:04]
Ben Bullen
It's not like a club song.
- [47:06]
Noel Brown
No. The lyrics are, at times, life is wicked and I just can't see the light A silver lining sometimes isn't enough to make some wrongs seem right Whatever life brings I've been through everything and now I'm on my knees again where does he say, stop dancing? Hold on.
- [47:23]
Ben Bullen
It's. This is the one that has the Tallahassee Cassie Boys Choir. At least the idea here is similar to I will survive. You know, like, we have encountered terrible events, tragedy beyond words, and we're going to soldier through. So I think that was the aim of them, and they found Creed's version of that song and performed that. So, look, obviously, this is huge spectacle. Every time you watch. Watch it. You, like Max, Noel and myself, come away with another piece of observation, something new to glean. One thing that stood out to Max about this in particular was the fact that the Salvation army, the public address announcer, and Jerry Jones himself, who is often called the czar of the Dallas Cowboys, they got cut off and they got played off stage for the Creed performance.
- [48:24]
Unknown
It was like somebody's set was kind of bombing and they start playing the music or someone is getting awarded and.
- [48:30]
Ben Bullen
They'Re going too long on the speech. Yeah.
- [48:32]
Unknown
Like, they're talking about charity, and Jerry Jones is up there with his wife and, like a young child, and these women just run out and start dancing around him, and they're playing Creed over them. It's like, this is impressive. It's also very obvious that they're lip syncing the entire thing.
- [48:44]
Ben Bullen
Wow, that's. Ooh, that's where I want to get to. Yeah.
- [48:48]
Noel Brown
Well, yeah. And I did find the lyric. It does exist in the song. There's one little part, I guess it repeats a couple times, but it says, literally, it's referencing the children. It says, children, don't stop dancing. Believe you can fly away Away.
- [49:01]
Ben Bullen
No, R. Kelly.
- [49:03]
Noel Brown
Indeed.
- [49:05]
Ben Bullen
This is bonkers. The whole thing, very American. If you were trying to explain the stereotypes of the United States to someone who is unfamiliar with this country, someone from Bhutan, for instance, who has never seen a halftime show, then show them the Creed halftime show and say, this is kind of it.
- [49:26]
Unknown
They'll be like, I mean, maybe this gross domestic happiness thing is not what it's cut out to be. Maybe we should lean back in the gdp, because this thing is awesome. And Also terrible.
- [49:34]
Noel Brown
Well, I think that's the thing. I mean, it does seem like their hearts are in the right place. Creed was like, you know, had had Christian roots. They were kind of a, a band that kind of all of America to some degree could rally behind because they were very popular. But they were also more or less wholesome. And their songs do have kind of these like a little bit pat but uplifting messages. But I think the thing that stands out and the reason this is memed and kind of made into these goofy couples Halloween costumes so much is it just feels very self aggrandizing on the part of Creed. You know, it's like we are here to bring to heal America with our rock.
- [50:12]
Ben Bullen
You know, Scott Stapp with the Messiah complex say it ain't so. He said sarcastically. There's also this one thing we have to. I know several of us were listening through this week's series and you're wondering like we have in the past, how often are these performers actually singing versus how often are they lip syncing now? In their defense, a lot of musicians outside of halftime shows, especially if they're known for dancing and choreography, they work with backing tracks for sure. You see it all the time. They'll have, you know, their ad libs or their chorus come in behind pre recorded and then it's happening because they're doing complex moves for sure.
- [50:59]
Noel Brown
I mean, these days. All right, sure thing. Yeah, indeed, these days. I mean, artists don't even really try to hide it as much. I mean, remember back when being caught lip syncing would have like tanked your career.
- [51:10]
Ben Bullen
Shout out Milli Vanilli.
- [51:11]
Noel Brown
Milli Vanilli or Ashley Simpson on Ashley Simpson on snl, which that was truly embarrassing because it was a whole incorrect song that was triggered and then she just kind of awkwardly does a little jig on stage. It was just absolutely. It's one of the most cringe worthy things you can watch. But you know, artists like Britney Spears, massive productions and incredibly physical dance routines, it's not even really a secret or an open secret. It's just a thing that is done. And there are certainly parts of shows where the artist will sing. But also like, you know Charli xcx, who's one of the biggest artists.
- [51:43]
Ben Bullen
Sure.
- [51:43]
Noel Brown
Ever. Right this second. She doesn't lip sync, but everything she does is through auto tune. That's like a feature, not a bug.
- [51:51]
Ben Bullen
And kudos to you, Charlie, because I loved, I loved your performance on the recent Saturday Night Live Live where she's very open about that. Very cool And a very talented actor. The lip syncing conversation goes on and on. We could say. I believe we could say that now. Many audience members for any live show are there to see a performance, to have a spectacle and experience. You can listen to the song at home. You're there for something different.
- [52:23]
Noel Brown
I mean, unless you're Adele or something. Who is not up there doing crazy gymnastic dance moves and who is. Her stock in trade is her voice. And doing this absolutely live, raw vocal performances.
- [52:35]
Ben Bullen
Or like Tom Waits, who would just. You're there to experience this guy be really eclectic and weird. 100%. So it'd be interesting if he ever lip synced for sure.
- [52:49]
Noel Brown
And it makes me think it would be really fun. Maybe we should add this to the list now to do a ridiculous history of lip syncing.
- [52:57]
Ben Bullen
Yeah, why not? Because it goes back to. Ooh. It goes back to a lot of things. Lip syncing as a way of deceiving an audience is an ancient art. You see it in religion as well, right?
- [53:11]
Noel Brown
Exactly. All right, let's put it on the list.
- [53:12]
Ben Bullen
The voice of God speaks through me. Pre James Earl Jones. One of my favorite examples of lip syncing, a kind of. A kind of bite of the thumb to shout out Shakespeare comes with the Red Hot Chili Peppers when they did Super Bowl 48. That's XLVII for all of us playing along at home. When they came out here, they didn't plug their guitars in. They said, why are we going to bother to act like we're actually playing the song? And Flea, who is just this amazing, very sincere person, two days after the Super bowl is 2014. He said the NFL had encouraged the frontman, Anthony, you know, Tony Anthony Kiedis, to sing live during the show, but then told the rest of the band that they would have to pre record an instrumental track and still show up. And so for the Chilies. For the Chili Peppers, they said, why do we want to perpetuate a charade?
- [54:22]
Noel Brown
The Pep Peps. Yeah. It's funny too, because this, you know, in music, especially with, like, live bands, there is sort of a bit of a fraught history with this kind of stuff. Because, like, television shows where bands would perform, most notably, like Top of the Pops in the uk, the bands are always required to lip sync to their songs. And some bands would actively protest against this. Like Nirvana, I think they're doing come as you are. And if you watch the tape from that, they're pantomiming, playing guitar really poorly and just kind of like Kurt Cobain just sort of opening his mouth, like, you know, wide for every part. And it's just so punk rock. And there are other examples of folks just not being on board.
- [55:06]
Ben Bullen
The Chili Peppers incident speaks to, I think, speaks to their character, at least Flea's character, because he was so candid about this. With his candor, he pulled back the curtain on one of the worst kept open secrets of the super bowl halftime, which is that artists do often rely on pre recorded instrumental tracks, if not additionally pre recorded vocal tracks.
- [55:33]
Noel Brown
You know, and I will say, just to look at both sides, that, you know, having done live sound and things in my previous life, like, I understand from the production standpoint how this would.
- [55:45]
Ben Bullen
Be a lot riding on it.
- [55:47]
Noel Brown
A lot riding on it. A lot of quick changeovers, you know, a lot of variables that they maybe just want to mitigate as much as possible. So, but, but, but, but then you have, you know, performances like Prince where it's just a centerpiece, full live band. That is what you're signing up for. That is what you're getting and, you know, every moment of that. Also, you know, Prince would never participate in anything where he was lip syncing or doing anything like that. He just. That's just not his. That's not his vibe. So you do get some really epic, you know, live performances eventually in the super bowl halftime show.
- [56:20]
Ben Bullen
Absolutely. And of course, it's easy, with the immense privilege of retrospect, to look back and, you know, what, what do we call it? To be the Monday morning quarterback about how a show should have been performed or how it could be tuned up. But in this case, what we're seeing again, again is a fascinating piece of ridiculous American history that continues today. Thank you so much, folks, for tuning in and joining us on this journey. Big, big thanks to Our super producer, Mr. Max Williams, who co wrote this research brief. Big, big thanks, of course, to Jonathan Strickland, AKA the Quister. He wants to go on here. He wants to do a halftime show. I think if we, we start a petition, maybe he'll do it.
- [57:07]
Unknown
Oh, Joshua Strickland, the Rolling Stones halftime show of podcasts.
- [57:12]
Noel Brown
I love it. It's very, very true.
- [57:14]
Ben Bullen
I like hearing the colons in that title.
- [57:16]
Noel Brown
Oh, yeah, I love hearing a good colon. Huge thanks to AJ Bahamas Jacobs, the Puzzler. Yeah.
- [57:22]
Ben Bullen
Big, big thanks to Rachel Big Spinach Lance, Chris Rossiotis, Eves, Jeff go here in spirit. Who else? Who, who else? Who else? Other than. Oh, of course, Scott from Creed. Thank you.
- [57:32]
Noel Brown
Yeah. And our personal Scott from Creed, Alex Williams, who composed the Spangin Bop.
- [57:38]
Ben Bullen
Nice nice. So we hope everybody is enjoying Thanksgiving times. Please, please. If you are ever at a decision point or you have some questions about how to have awkward conversations with your family, check out our episode on Stuff they don't want you to know how to talk to your family during the holidays.
- [58:02]
Noel Brown
We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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