The Ridiculous History of Atlanta's Street Names

Summary

Podcast Summary: Ridiculous History – The Ridiculous History of Atlanta’s Street Names

Podcast: Ridiculous History
Hosts: Ben Bowlin, Noel Brown, Max Williams
Episode Date: June 9, 2026
Episode Theme: A deep dive into the curious, sometimes absurd, and often troubling history behind Atlanta’s street names—with a focus on Peachtree, race, and urban planning.

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Overview

In this episode, Ben and Noel (with producer Max chiming in) explore the origins, patterns, and deeper significance behind Atlanta’s famously confusing street names. They unpack why so many are called “Peachtree,” the indigenous roots underlying those names, the convoluted patterns of changing street names, and how much of this history is entwined with racial segregation and city politics. The story moves from indigenous trails to present-day city initiatives, spotlighting how the city’s quirks reflect broader American themes of memory, erasure, and community.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Peachtree” Stereotype & Atlanta’s Identity

• Joke and Reality: Atlanta’s “every street is Peachtree” joke is mostly true but overstated (02:21).
• Over 70 Peachtree Streets: According to the Atlanta History Center, there are 71 streets with some form of “Peachtree” in their name (08:42).
• Symbol of Georgia: The peach is central to local imagery—voting stickers, branding, and identity (09:30).

Quote:
"According to the Atlanta History Center, 71 streets in Atlanta are named with some form of the word Peachtree in it. That’s a lot. Okay, maybe we downplayed it a touch." — Noel (08:42)

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2. Street Name Confusion: The Layout and Meme Culture

• Layout Oddities: Atlanta’s streets often inexplicably change names, e.g., Briarcliff becomes Moorland—it’s the same road (06:22).
• Memes: The chaotic Atlanta street grid is a running joke even outside the city, with memes comparing New York’s logic to Atlanta’s seeming randomness (07:18).
• Why the Confusion? The story is more complex than lazy municipal planning; it involves deliberate, sometimes malicious decisions.

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3. Indigenous Origins of Atlanta’s Place Names

• Muscogee/Creek Land: Atlanta was built on Muscogee territory, with place names such as “Standing Peachtree” (Pacanahooli) (11:08).
• Trail Networks: North American indigenous peoples created extensive travel networks; present-day Peachtree roads often follow these ancient trails (11:59).
• Place-Name Legacy: Despite Atlanta’s habit of bulldozing history, the persistence of Peachtree names honors pre-colonial heritage—at least in this instance.

Quote:
"The Muscogee word for the site is Pacanahooli, which translates roughly into English as 'standing peach tree.' … the idea to name streets and trails after peach trees is older than the city of Atlanta itself." — Ben (11:46, 11:59)

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4. Colonization, Expansion, and War

• War of 1812: The city’s European-American roots include military conflict with the Muscogee, with forts like Fort Peachtree named after indigenous settlements (15:03).
• Fake Treaties, Land Seizure: Atlanta’s current geography is based on land taken by force or fraud after the First Treaty of Indian Springs (1821) (17:07).
• Terminus and Marthasville: Atlanta was first called “Terminus” (for its railway), then “Marthasville,” then eventually “Atlanta,” possibly after the mythological Atalanta or as a feminized “Atlantic” (18:34, 19:09, 19:28).

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5. Street Renamings—Logistics, Egos, and Economics

• Why Not Simplify? Changing street names is costly and confusing; infrastructure, addresses, and local identity are involved (22:08).
• Tradition in Renaming: Atlanta has a deep tradition of renaming streets, sometimes for commemoration, sometimes for more troubling reasons.

Quote:
"Changing the names of the other 70 wouldn’t just be an inconvenience at this point. It would also be expensive. Think of all the signage, Ben. Think of the signage." — Noel (22:08)

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6. Segregation and the Weaponization of Street Names

• Racial Motivation: Many street splits (one street changing name at a boundary) were tools of institutional racism, marking off white and Black neighborhoods (22:54, 26:41).
• Paul Crater’s Research: According to the Atlanta History Center’s Paul Crater, renaming streets was used to physically and symbolically enforce racial divides (30:26).
• Historic Example: Southeast Atlanta—part of Whiteford Avenue renamed to Memorial Terrace during the ‘60s to disassociate white residents from growing Black populations (29:00).
• Legislative Background: 1913’s Ashley Ordinance was the first attempt to segregate Atlanta by law; it was overturned as unconstitutional, but unofficial methods ensued (32:05).

Quote:
"There are virtually no major decisions that are made in the city of Atlanta that do not have a racial factor built into it. Everything has a racial component." — Ben quoting Leon Epplon (26:41)

• Physical Barriers: Beyond names, Atlanta actually built walls and blockades to enforce racial divides, such as the 1962 Atlanta Wall of Cascade Heights—torn down after public outcry (44:44, 45:03).

Quote:
"The city erected literal roadblocks or they would stop paving a road. And that's part of why Atlanta has…a lot of weird dead end streets." — Ben (44:18)

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7. Modern Re-namings and Attempts at Reconciliation

• From Confederacy to Unity: In 2018–2019, streets named after the Confederacy were changed—e.g., Confederate Avenue became United Avenue (47:03, 48:01).
• Commemorating Civil Rights: More recent street names honor Black leaders and civil rights icons (e.g., Joseph E. Boone, Donald Lee Hollowell) (46:19).
• Grassroots Efforts: Community advocacy has been critical in driving more inclusive renamings and city reflection (47:03, 47:16).

Quote:
"More notes: If you're looking for street names now, you ought to understand who those people are. Joseph E. Boone, Donald Lee Hollowell. Those are street names that mean something. So do yourself a favor and Google all these folks. They've got stories in and of themselves that matter." — Noel (46:19)

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8. Urban Planning, Gentrification, and the Future

• Beltline & Gentrification: The hosts discuss how space is now being repurposed and how gentrification affects historic Black neighborhoods (35:05).
• Architectural Legacy: The Beltline, conceived by Ryan Gravel at Georgia Tech, is a major walking and transit corridor meant to connect neighborhoods—but its outcomes are mixed (36:09, 36:19).
• Palimpsest Metaphor: Atlanta’s history is described as a “palimpsest”—rewritten over and over, never fully erased (27:35, 31:00).

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9. Local Life, Hospitality, and Enduring Quirks

• Local Customs: In classic Ridiculous History fashion, the episode ends with a "locals guide," noting Atlanta’s tradition of familiar, chatty friendliness—even among strangers (50:26).
• Hyperlocal, National Relevance: While the Atlanta street story is local, the themes—urban design, race, memory, and resistance—are relevant throughout American history (49:26).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the ubiquity of Peachtree:
  "It feels like late, late 1980s lazy stand-up—you know, I went to Atlanta, I wanted to go to Peachtree, and the cab driver said, which one?" — Ben (05:38)

• On indigenous origins:
  _"The Muscogee word for the site...Pacanahooli, which translates roughly into English as 'standing peach tree.'" — Noel (11:46)

• On street renaming and racism:
  "In the past, white citizens of the city decided through official channels to change the name of the street because they did not want their neighborhoods to be associated with African Americans who were moving in areas close to them." — Ben, citing Paul Crater (30:26)

• On the Atlanta Wall:
  "A wooden barrier divided the white and black neighborhoods of Cascade Heights. And it was just, you point out, Ben, utterly petty." — Noel (44:44)

• On Palimpsest:
  "Palimpsest, meaning a manuscript that gets written on top of and then erased and then written over and over again. That is certainly what Atlanta is. And history." — Noel (31:00)

• On honoring civil rights history:
  "Some streets in Atlanta have been renamed to honor prominent non racist people. Civil rights leaders especially. This makes sense, right? We're the home of Dr. Martin Luther King, of course..." — Ben (46:19)

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Key Timestamps

• [02:21] — Atlanta’s “Peachtree everything” joke & stereotypes
• [06:22] — Briarcliff vs. Moorland—one road, two names
• [08:42] — 71 streets named Peachtree
• [11:08] — Indigenous Muscogee/Creek roots: “Standing Peachtree”
• [15:03] — War of 1812: Fort Peachtree & land seizure
• [19:09] — From Terminus to Martha’sville to Atlanta
• [22:08] — Street renaming logistics & cost
• [26:41] — Leon Epplon: race central in Atlanta’s decisions
• [29:00] — Whiteford/Memorial Terrace—name change as race marker
• [32:05] — 1913 Ashley Ordinance: legal segregation attempt
• [44:44] — The Atlanta wall (Cascade Heights), physical barriers
• [47:03] — Recent renaming of Confederate Avenue (& related grassroots action)
• [50:26] — Local culture: “everyone’s vaguely related”
• [51:59] — Conclusion and shout-outs

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Conclusion

The episode traces Atlanta’s street names from indigenous Muscogee roots to Confederate nostalgia, through overt acts of racial division to modern efforts at social healing. The hosts weave personal anecdotes, humor, and critical historical insight, revealing how the city’s “ridiculous” street design is not merely quirky, but a palimpsest of power, memory, and resistance. This is hyperlocal history with national significance—a mirror of how America writes (and rewrites) itself, one street sign at a time.

Transcript

[Ben Bol]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartradio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you as always, so much for tuning in. That's our man of the hour, super producer, Mr. Max Williams. Give it up for him.

[Noel Brown]

Man of the Two hours late, which is my fault. That's not a nickname. That should go to you, Max. That should go to me.

[Max Williams]

I am never late to anything. Have you guys ever seen me be late to anything?

[Noel Brown]

Not really.

[Ben Bol]

Only once. And you were super weird about it.

[Noel Brown]

Well, at the very least, super apologetic. But I can't even recall the time you're talking about. Ben. This is a me issue. I'm traveling. I was at a place that was slightly unfamiliar or to me and the Internet crap the bed. And then I had a hotel situation, but it wasn't ready. So I do come to y' all hat in hand from a co working space. So if y' all hear some. Some New Yorkie types having meetings in the background, that's what's going on. But otherwise it's pretty empty right now. But I'm Noel and you're Ben, and you're a champion and a scholar and a sport for putting up with my shenanigans.

[Ben Bol]

Ah, absolutely no sweat. Zero perspiration. Folks, that is indeed the legendary Mr. Noel Brown. They do call me Ben Bol. Folks, we get on the road often and we have shenanigans and we're pretty upfront about it. When you know, Noel, there have been times I was stranded in Japan or Korea, and we kept the Japan, as

[Noel Brown]

we like to coin.

[Ben Bol]

I love it. Japan did. So we are scattered across the world often. And one thing that always takes us back home, all three of us, is a little town called Atlanta. Guys, I gotta tell you, there's this old joke that really bothers a lot of us. When tourists say it in Atlanta, they go, wow, every street is named Peach Tree something.

[Noel Brown]

Well, they love to make that one. And they also just love Hotlanta.

[George Severis]

Hotlanta.

[Noel Brown]

And I don't know why it rubs us the wrong way as locals, but it does. And I can't put my finger on it. But the whole peach tree thing, there's some truth to that, but also not to the degree that people say,

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[Noel Brown]

I turned off news altogether.

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[Noel Brown]

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[Ben Bol]

It feels like it's trying to divide people. We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.

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[Ben Bol]

Yeah, it feels like late, late 1980s lazy. Stand up, you know, I went to Atlanta. I wanted to go to Petri. The cab driver said, which one? Anyway, what's next? The Mike Airline food.

[Noel Brown]

Oh my gosh, Ben. By the way, it's speaking of peaches and Georgia. Atlanta centric Stu. We are known elsewhere in the country because there's a diner in Queens, New York where I'm staying that is called the Georgia Diner. And it has a big old neon peach. Haven't been. Don't know what constitutes a Georgia style diner. We're not exactly known for our diners. Seems like more that's a Queens thing or a New York thing. But an odd flip, if you will.

[Ben Bol]

That is cool. I appreciate you pointing that out, Noel, because we know that Georgia is still called the Peach State. And it's. It's. It's weird if you've never visited our fair metropolis. We've got a lot of stuff going on. We're the little city in the forest that could. But our, our little conurbation has a lot of interesting things going on streetwise. In specifically. Now, you guys will recall our old office was at a place called Ponce City Market. And if you walk just a few blocks away from where that is, you can take a left on a street that will be called Briarcliff. On the same street, if you turn right, you're on a whole different place called Moorland. It is the same actual street.

[Noel Brown]

You know, Ben, you may have seen this meme as well. I think it made national meme spheres, not just local, though I do love local memes. Where it was a picture of like the New York City grid, you know, and it makes a lot of sense. And then a picture of Atlanta and the nonsensical street arrangements that we have. And the New York one said because of course. And Atlanta was like. Because you.

[Ben Bol]

And this obviously, even now as we're recording on June 4, 2026, it can be confusing as heck to people who are not familiar with this urban design quirk. If we're being diplomatic, especially imagine you're a tourist back in the, let's say 1970s.

[Noel Brown]

God forbid. Before GPS, before smartphones.

[Ben Bol]

Right, right. And you inevitably will end up at the wrong place in the city. So our question is why all the hubbub, bub? It turns out that there is a story behind this. It is as disturbing as it is ridiculous. No. Before we continue, bro, I know we all hate to do this with outsiders, but we have millions of people tuning in. Can we just tell them about the Peachtree thing?

[Noel Brown]

Oh, we must. And by the way, you know, to kind of go against the whole it's not that big a deal that we were saying earlier. You mentioned our last office at Ponce City Market. The one before that was definitely on Peachtree out in Buckhead. So according to the Atlanta History Center, 71 Streets in Atlanta are named with some form of the word Peachtree in it. That's a lot. Okay, maybe we downplayed it a touch. Let's get there. The most famous Peachtree on the list is, of course, you guessed it, Peachtree street, which runs from Five Points. Not to be confused with little Five Points.

[Ben Bol]

Different Five.

[Noel Brown]

Downtown. Yeah, Atlanta through Midtown. And it ends just a couple blocks after you enter the neighborhood of Buckhead, which is almost like its own kind of community in a way. So this makes the street one of the longest in Atlanta, running around 6.2 miles.

[Ben Bol]

Yeah. And since, as we said, Georgia is known as the Peach State, to the point where if you have a voting sticker, anytime you vote in an Atlanta election, your sticker has a peach on it and it says, I voted, so.

[Max Williams]

No, it says, I secured my vote.

[Ben Bol]

I secured my vote.

[Max Williams]

This is a new addendum they did after passing a bunch of non controversial voting laws.

[Noel Brown]

Max, I'm gonna give you a minute to dig this up, or you might know it off the top of your head, but have we done a Georgia, Georgia episode in our states series?

[Ben Bol]

We have.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, God, many.

[Max Williams]

We only have one. We only have one state left.

[Noel Brown]

Which is what?

[Max Williams]

Yeah, New Hampshire, Max.

[Noel Brown]

And he dropped the knowledge just for you. So good. There he goes.

[Ben Bol]

There he is.

[Noel Brown]

What were our previous Georgia episodes, if you don't mind me asking?

[Max Williams]

I will circle back.

[Noel Brown]

Perfect.

[Ben Bol]

Yeah, great. We've got a list going, courtesy of the legendary Maxwell Williams. We also know. Okay, Georgia is called the Peach State. And we could all be forgiven for thinking all these roads named Peachtree is just a case of well meaning branding gone overboard. But there's so much more to the story. You know, Nola's, you and I were talking about a few years ago, off air. Like every other town in the United States, Atlanta is built on indigenous land.

[Noel Brown]

That's right. In Atlanta's case, the land belonged to the Muscogee peoples, also known as the Creek. The Atlanta History center, once again known as the Muskogee, had a settlement. This is, in their words, the Atlanta History center, folks. At the convergence of Peachtree Creek and the Chattahoochee river, or the Hooch, as we like to call it. Shooting the Hooch. That's when you Go tubing way down yonder.

[Ben Bol]

I never knew how much it meant

[Noel Brown]

to me that muddy. I learned how to swim, and I learned who I was. A lot about a little about love. Just a little about love.

[Ben Bol]

Just a little bit. Yeah, just like second base a little bit.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, no, just hand stuff. The Muscogee word for the site is. Let me try my best here. Pacanahooli, Pacana huili, which translates roughly into English as standing peach tree.

[Ben Bol]

And please note, some sources will attribute this to the Cherokee. However, for our purposes, we're going with our friends at the AHC Atlanta History Center. As they tell us, the Muscogee peoples used a series of well established paths for long distance traveling. And one of those led east from Standing Peachtree, the English translation, until it terminated at a trail of the Muscogee peoples. So it kind of makes sense that people would keep using the original names as the city expanded. But this also means that the idea to name streets and trails after peach trees is older than the city of Atlanta itself.

[Noel Brown]

You know, I think that's cool, actually. At least it means that because Atlanta is known for not being the best steward of its own history.

[Ben Bol]

Yeah.

[Noel Brown]

At least in terms of architecture and just kind of bulldozing the old stuff and building up some kind of, you know, crappy new stuff. But this is a good example of, like, you know, carrying the. The legacy of pre Atlanta through, you know, our current history.

[Ben Bol]

Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead, Max. Go in hard. I need a hot take.

[Max Williams]

All right, well, it's not a hot take. It's actually an utter buzzkill, so get ready for this. So how the pitch doc works is it's more the document I have that tracks these things. It's more to keep track of, like when we've mentioned the state, basically meaning, like, we don't have to do an episode. So only had one Georgia one in there, which was MLK and Coca Cola. But we also have other episodes about when a tree owned itself. History of Waffle House.

[Noel Brown]

Those are Georgia centric. Okay, well, those are some good ones, though.

[Max Williams]

Way more than I.

[Noel Brown]

Than.

[Max Williams]

Than I. I have right here. I can find quickly. But we definitely have more than one

[Ben Bol]

episode about Georgia, and we greatly appreciate you. Let's do the sound cue Max with the vex second time. There we go. All right, well, no, Max, choose one. No. So all of the Atlanta streets called Peachtree today, or some derivation thereof, can attribute their names to Peachtree Creek. This creek flows southwest through DeKalb and Fulton counties, and then it joins the Chattahoochee river, just south of Vinings. And the history here gets pretty ugly. We gotta go to the War of 1812, and we promise we're going to the future with this one.

[Noel Brown]

Do we have to? Do we have to do the War of 1812? It's such a bummer.

[Ben Bol]

It's our remit. It is a bummer.

[Noel Brown]

All right. All right. Let's do it. You see, during The War of 1812, as the AHC puts it, the white settlers of Georgia were in direct conflict with the Muscogee tribe, who leagued up with the Brits against the United States. So the state of Georgia decided to erect a series of bases, forts, if you will, from which to fight the Muscogee army onslaught. And that included Fort Peachtree, which was built on the high ground that overlooked Standing Peachtree. Remember that original one that had the native name?

[Ben Bol]

That's the one, yeah. Paka, Nahuali.

[Noel Brown]

There you go. Standing Peachtree.

[Ben Bol]

Standing Peachtree. And fast forward one year, these folks completed work on a preexisting trail from Muscogee. This trail connected 14 Fort Peachtree to Fort Daniel. There was a similar outpost at the ignominiously named Hog Mountain in Gwinnett County.

[Noel Brown]

Sorry, I'm being a child.

[Ben Bol]

I know. But they copied the stuff that they copied the trail marking that the Muscogee peoples had already established hundreds, if not thousands of years before. This is a relatively insignificant road. It eventually becomes called Peachtree Road. And if you go through, of course, the western expansion, you will see that white settlements were pressing for more and more indigenous land. Native territories were. AHC is going to tell you they were obtained, but we can say it correctly. They were stolen through a bunch of fake treaties or fraudulent treaties.

[Noel Brown]

Dirty deals done dirt cheap, not made

[Ben Bol]

in good faith, for sure. And the first Treaty of Indian Springs was signed in 1821. This resulted in the Muscogee Nation ceding 4 million acres east of the Flint river. That includes the future site of what we call Atlanta today. By the the end of 1827, all Muskogee territory within the state of Georgia had been, in Uncle Sam's opinion, lost.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. And then in 1837, the Southern Terminal of the Western and Atlantic railroad companies or railroad lines were constructed about seven miles from that Standing Peachtree location. And just a handful, a hop, skip and a jump a stone's throw from the end of the Peachtree Trail. And as the rail railway workers, along with settlers and traders, began to set up camps and homes and, you know, soon more permanent businesses, it became sort of a Settlement in the town. This is when I believe it was referred to as Terminus, which you'll recall any fans of the Walking Dead from when it was good is what they referred to Atlanta as. Or at least there was that encampment that they came across, you know, our heroes at the time called Terminus.

[Ben Bol]

Yeah. And that part of the Walking Dead also filmed here in Georgia. Terminus, the original name, it referred to the railway. The etymology of it is that that's where the railway ends.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, God, it ended. Okay. I thought it was like a terminus. That makes sense. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

[Ben Bol]

So we know that in 1843 this area becomes called Marth.

[Noel Brown]

Ah, Marthasville sounds so quaint and homey. In 1845, Marthasville underwent a name change again to become Atlanta.

[Ben Bol]

They love changing names here.

[Noel Brown]

We do. I've always. I think we've maybe talked about this, but is Atlanta a reference to, like, Atalanta? It's a reference to Atalanta, which is another native people.

[Ben Bol]

It's a reference to Greek mythological huntress at Atlanta.

[Noel Brown]

And another version of that, I think, according to an engineer by the name of J. Edgar Thompson was the Atlanta came from the feminine form of Atlantic and had to do with the references to Western and Atlantic lines. So again, similar to what they were trying to accomplish with Terminus, but maybe a little less severe sounding.

[Ben Bol]

Yeah, yeah. A little less brutalism etymologically. And yeah, as we mentioned, the Western and Atlantic Railroad. Huge deal for this growing city. Atlanta itself is somewhat anomalous in the history of cities because it does not have coastal territory. Right. It's not by the sea. In a time when most people were trading via the ocean. Right. Or via large navigable rivers like the Mississippi. The Chattahoochee was okay for a minute. But right now, I have to tell you guys, Atlanta's historical trade routes are not rivers. They're not oceans. They're railroads. And then later they become airports. We have the busiest airport on the planet. It depending on how you, you know.

[Noel Brown]

Latoya Jackson industrial spaceport.

[Ben Bol]

Oh, man.

[Noel Brown]

Just kidding. That's just my favorite location tag for it. If you ever go, it's Hartsfield Jackson International Airport. But I love Latoya Jackson spaceport.

[Ben Bol]

And as the. As Marthasville becomes Atlanta, it also becomes again, pre Civil War, one of the most vital economic crossroads in the region. It's most well known street, as we said. Established first as a trail by the Muscogee peoples, it has become one out of 70, one of the most famous streets in the region. Time goes on. Right. And Some of these streets doubtlessly get renamed either in honor of notable locals or decisions by the local population or as a result of new construction. And to be fair, so that we don't sound dismissive or rude, this happens in pretty much every single American city. It can also be a really sweet way to commemorate people who have made a positive impact on your town, your neighborhood, your state, your country. It's symbolic, but it's pretty cool. Mayors in especial love this.

[Noel Brown]

But you know, I mean, as helpful as it might be just logistically speaking, to maybe just have one street named Peachtree, changing the name names of the other 70 wouldn't just be an inconvenience at this point. It would also be expensive. Think of all the infrastructure, the signage, Ben. Think of the signage.

[Ben Bol]

You haven't thought of the signage. Think of everybody having to change their address with any recurring bill. As a result, we're kind of stuck with what we've got at the moment, at least for now. And we're saying at least for now because Atlanta has a. A deep, deep history with changing the names of streets. And they have this deep history not for particularly noble reasons.

[Noel Brown]

It's not for funsies.

[Ben Bol]

It's not for funsies. I wish it was for funsies.

[Noel Brown]

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[Dr. Joy]

This is Dr. Joy from therapy for black Girls. If you could enjoy a spotless space without so much scrubbing, wouldn't you? Of course you would. Well, I've got you. Dawn Power Wash Dish Spray cuts through the mess and gets everything clean in half the time. We're talking about both the toughest messes and everyday dishes. Plus, its work goes beyond the sink, like to clean counters, stoves, grills, and to remove stains on laundry. And it's really good at getting those hard to clean dishes. So basically, Dawn Power Wash cleans everything from dishes to grills, removing all the grease and grime and does it twice as fast. Not bad. You can find Dawn Power Wash Dish Spray at your favorite retailer. Dawn is a proud sponsor of the Elton John Impact Awards, honoring those who have helped shape a more inclusive and compassionate world with their artistry, advocacy, and unwavering commitment to equality. And we'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate all of this year's deserving honorees. You won't want to miss the Elton John Impact Awards podcast, available on June 1st on the iHeartRadio app. And everywhere podcasts are heard hey everyone,

[Cal Penn]

it's Cal Penn, host of Irsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I'm sitting down with Wil Wheaton, who played Gordie Lachance in Stand by Me 40 years ago and now narrates Stephen King's the Body, the novella that inspired it all. We talk about what it's like to return to a story that shaped his life, channeling his memories of River Phoenix in the recording booth, and why the friendships you have at 12 might be the most important ones you'll ever have.

[Ben Bol]

I know Gordie Lachance. I am Gordy Lachance.

[Noel Brown]

Like, I mean, even when I was

[Ben Bol]

a little kid, I was Gordie Lachance when. When I didn't know it.

[Cal Penn]

Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Orderly Meds Sponsor]

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[Ben Bol]

There's a guy named Leon Epplon who back in 1985 wrote something called Race and the Shaping of 20th Century Atlanta. And one of the pull quotes you've got to hear from this one ridiculous historians, is there are virtually no major decisions that are made in the city of Atlanta that do not have a racial factor built into it. Everything has a racial component.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. This is especially true during Atlanta's rebuilding After it got burned to the ground, when the south lost the Civil War, when the Sherman's march to the sea and all of that good stuff. And the echoes of this, as you put it, Ben, in the lovely outline that you created for this topic, coordinated segregation stayed with us to this day.

[Ben Bol]

Yeah, agreed, Noel. History is a palimpsest. Atlanta is no exception. So after the Civil War, we see a lot of black African American residents begin moving to Atlanta in large numbers, and they're pursuing opportunities, you know, work, school, community. A lot of folks are also honestly hoping to connect with family members they were separated from during chattel slavery. There are new city dwellers who are arriving at this time. They create their own communities. Neighborhoods like Reynoldstown, which we all love to hang out in. It was founded in 1870 by former slaves working for the railroad. So when this influx of black home and business owners move closer to the white areas, the white residents, not all of them, but some of them, to be honest, a lot of them, they work to create racial distance. This obviously comes with the real world realities of hate crime, oppression, racial violence. But there's another aspect to it that fascinates Noel, Max and myself, folks. It is this superficial, symbolic, like, often cartoonish case of just naming the same street twice. What?

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, right. Yeah. And go ahead and put it out there. Now there's a ding going on. It's some kind of alarm somewhere in this co working space. I think Max is gonna do his darndest to get it out, but if you hear it, that's what it is. And I do apologize. But according to Paul Crater, also of the ahc, the Atlanta History center, he is their vice president of collections and research services and says that there are multiple examples of this. This thing that you're talking about, Ben. The cartoonish renaming of streets. For example, in the 1960s, part of Southeast Atlanta's Whiteford Avenue. I used to live off of Whiteford, was changed to Memorial Terrace. I love an avenue versus a terrace. Not the whole street, but just a part of it which references back to what you were talking about there at the top, about how, like, why is it that on one side of the tracks it's called one thing and then it changes to something else. Well, here's why not. That's unusual in other states cities, but it is a little bit wide rife, as our buddy Frank likes to say here in Atlanta.

[Ben Bol]

Yeah, wide rife. And I didn't know that we both lived on Whiteford at a time, but I do remember, hey, we hung out at your house, actually.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, it wasn't on. It was just. It was like off. It was like, you know, right behind where the Kroger is kind of near a little Five Points.

[Max Williams]

I lived off of Whiteford.

[Ben Bol]

Yeah, it's happened to all of us.

[Max Williams]

I seriously lived off of Whiteford as well. I'm sitting here, I'm like, there's a couple streets named Ford something in Atlanta.

[Noel Brown]

Nah, it's Whiteford.

[Ben Bol]

Yeah. Yeah, correct. Two O's, weirdly enough. And our pal Crater's explanation for this is distressing and bonkers and pretty sad. He notes, quote, in the past, white citizens of the city decided through official channels to change the name of the street because the they did not want their neighborhoods to be associated with African Americans who were moving in areas close to them. And Crater traces this back to 1913.

[Noel Brown]

Wait, so hence white Ford. Oh, you think we might have done something about that one by now? But, you know, palimpsest, meaning a manuscript that gets written on top of and then erased and then written over and over again. That is certainly what Atlanta is. And history. So Craitor traces this whole kerfuffle back to 1913, when he says the first signs of modern racial discrimination in housing began. We've talked certainly on this show and on our sister podcast, Stuff youf Missed in History Class. Plenty of episodes on this concept of redlining, you know, housing zoning that is inherently racially motivated. And of course, redistricting, gerrymandering, you know, as far as changing voting blocks, that can also be pretty darn racist. And now we just had a situation in the United States where we had some almost reverse gerrymandering to try to give some power back to some, you know, minority communities. That was then overturned by the pretty problematic Supreme Court that we've got sitting at the moment.

[Ben Bol]

Right? Yes. Yeah, Agreed, Noel. We also know that 1913 is the same year where a Atlanta City Council member named Claude Ashley tries to segregate neighborhoods by race, create something called the Ashley Ordinance. This meant that the city would officially, as a governmental power, ensure that various blocks will be segregated again by race. Thankfully, just a few years later, this policy made its way to Georgia's Supreme Court. Quick backstory for anybody not familiar with the Us, all of the United States. They have to follow the federal supreme Court. But each state also has its own supreme Court. And thankfully, Georgia's supreme court ruled this Ashley ordinance unconstitutional. It was the first attempt to codify segregation. But Crater notes, if an official policy did not do the trick, these powerful white decision makers do not hesitate to go around the law through various means. They're waging a GARIA NIMBY war in local politics and business circles. They wanna make sure that their spaces, their addresses are not associated with black people.

[Noel Brown]

Right. Some of these white residents were absolutely scandalized by the thought of having to have the same street name on their mailbox as a black, even if that house was just a couple of blocks away on the very same street. So to these folks, that few blocks away may as well have been on the moon and should have been considered, as far as they were concerned, a different neighborhood, one that they would never enter, the bad neighborhood. Right. And it should be reflected as such in any and every way possible, including address and map designation. Right, Right.

[Ben Bol]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Noel Brown]

I mean, not that, like, neighborhoods aren't still a divisive thing. Right. Like rich neighborhood. I mean, you know, it's. Yeah. None of this stuff is, like, particularly has gone away. And you could argue that in Atlanta and other parts of the country, of course, that there are still racial divides in neighborhoods, though some of them maybe are less imposed by government and maybe more historical because these things, these families, they tend to gravitate towards these neighborhoods where they were forced to live. And then generationally, those are the types of people that live in those neighborhoods.

[Ben Bol]

And now they're being gentrified.

[Noel Brown]

Well, that's also true. And that's its own problem, because it's like you put people there in the first place because you didn't want to be around them, and then all of a sudden, now where they live is more valuable to you. And by you, I just mean, you know, folks in power. And typically, that means white folks.

[Ben Bol]

Shout out to the belt line.

[Noel Brown]

Shout out to the belt line. And to be fair, they have. They have seemed to begin to follow through with some of the affordable housing initiatives they promised. But we'll see. Proof will be in the pudding. Anyone who's not from Atlanta, I am.

[Ben Bol]

Jack's lack of optimism.

[Noel Brown]

Understandable. And I'm not. I'm just D and devil's advocate and saying that there is. I know some people who work in city planning here in Atlanta and are down, you know, do nonprofit work. And I have talked to some folks that seem to Think that there is some good work being done in that direction by good folks. But in general, the Beltline is this connected rail lines that have been repurposed to connect different parts of the city. And of course, it becomes like a shopping corridor, sort of like the High Line in New York City.

[Okta Sponsor]

Sure.

[Noel Brown]

And the idea was that it would be a great connector and a great way to connect different neighborhoods. So now there's a part of the Beltline. I believe it's the west side Beltline that is not gentrified here yet. And it's a real stark contrast to the part that's been being developed for many years.

[Ben Bol]

And I'd love to shout out Ryan Gravel, the great architect of Atlanta's Beltline. He came up with this while he was studying at my alma mater, Georgia Tech.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, cool. I didn't know that.

[Ben Bol]

Yeah. Yeah. And look, of course, the practice of an idea is rarely asked, as good or as ambitious as the germination of an idea. But the Beltline is awesome. I think it's fair to say that we are all big fans, and we hope you get some time to hang out there. It's very big in Atlanta to have a walkable environment. These folks back during the. Back during the day, these racist folks had to be careful, or they had to at least pretend that rebranding street names was not due to racism. They didn't want to play their hand too openly. They didn't want to put their ulterior motives on the written record. So if you look at a lot of the documents pertaining to these name changes, you're not going to see any genuine reason given. We got to go back to our pal Crater. He was speaking with CBS News, and he said, look, this doesn't mean there aren't examples. There could be examples in newspapers or other documents from the time that say this explicitly. But I can only point to the documents that I have found that certainly imply that the reasons for these street name changes were because of racial discrimination on the part of white people. And a lot of other experts agree.

[Noel Brown]

So the Apex museum president and CEO, a guy named Dan Moore, Jr. Confirms that these things would happen pretty regularly, these types of shenanigans. He notes that the white residents, even if they were the minority in their area, would often go crying to the city council, waving around petitions demanding that a street's name be changed.

[Ben Bol]

Yeah, and there are, again, plenty of weird examples that stay with us today. As we said at the top, Moreland Avenue and Boulevard, two streets that frame historic Reynoldstown from the west and east. They have their names changed to Briarcliff Road and Monroe Drive as you cross Ponce de Leon Avenue. Other streets where you can see the same thing include Parkway and Charles Allen Drives, Central Park Place, Argonne Avenue and Cortlandt Street. Cortlandt street changes to Juniper street the further north you get. And while the official records of the time may never explicitly state this, fellow ridiculous historians, there is literally no other reason than racial discrimination. That's it? That's the only reason you would go through this stupid inconvenience?

[Noel Brown]

Well, right. And it wasn't just limited to, you know, city streets. Even the highways and byways and the interstates got affected in the 1950s. While planning Interstate 20, Mayor William B. Hartsfields, who the spaceport is named after, said that he envisioned this corridor, which is the main east west interstate in Atlanta, as a quote, boundary. I'm doing the biggest, broadest air quotes possible between the white and Negro communities.

[Ben Bol]

I'm sorry you had to do that quote, Noel.

[Noel Brown]

It's okay, man. It's history and it is true.

[Ben Bol]

It is ridiculous and we want to be accurate. And eventually this situation escalated.

[Dr. Joy]

This is Dr. Joy from therapy for Black Girls. If you could enjoy a spotless space without so much scrubbing, wouldn't you? Of course you would. Well, I've got you. Dawn Power Wash Dish Spray cuts through the mess and gets everything clean in half the time. We're talking about both the toughest messes in everyday dishes. Plus its work goes beyond the sink, like to clean counters, stoves, grills, and to remove stains on laundry. And it's really good at getting those hard to clean dishes. So basically, Dawn Power Wash cleans everything from dishes to grills, removing all the grease and grime and does it twice as fast. Not bad. You can find Dawn Power Wash Dish Spray at your favorite retailer. Dawn is a proud sponsor of the Elton John Impact Award, honoring those who have helped shape a more inclusive and compassionate world with their artistry, advocacy and unwavering commitment to equality. And we like to take this opportunity to congratulate all of this year's deserving honorees. You won't want to miss the Elton John Impact Awards podcast, available on June 1st on the iHeartRadio app. And everywhere podcasts are heard.

[Cal Penn]

Hey everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Irsay The Audible and iHeartrading Heart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project Hail Mary massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth.

[Ray Porter]

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections and it's like, okay, yo yo yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it.

[Noel Brown]

I was like, no.

[Ray Porter]

At this point it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that that deeply emotionally affected me and I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah dude, me too.

[Cal Penn]

Listen to Irsay the Audible and I iheart Audiobook Club on the iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts Are

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[Ben Bol]

So these White residents were no longer satisfied with name changes on the street, Memorial Terrace, Whiteford, what have you. It Wasn't enough for them. So they went back to the mayor, the city council, the other policymakers, and they had a new pitch. They said, build us physical barriers. We have black people living on the same streets as the whites and

[Jana Kramer]

we've

[Ben Bol]

got to fix this. So the city, city erected literal roadblocks or they would stop paving a road. And that's part of why Atlanta has. Especially around I20. Atlanta has a lot of weird dead end streets. It's because these folks were literally telling the city to block the roads.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, blockades. Something called the Atlanta wall was actually built in 1962, approved by the mayor at the Ivan Allen Jr. He's got a lot of roads named after him as well. This wooden barrier divided the white and the black neighborhoods of Cascade Heights. And it was just, you know, you point out, Ben, utterly petty.

[Ben Bol]

Yeah, so petty. It's the same street. Luckily, this debacle gets citywide the national attention. It gets so much opprobrium, the city of Atlanta at this point. And beat me here, Max is looking like a bunch of grade A. Oh, yeah.

[Noel Brown]

Thank you. And again, when you look at the map, compare it to a city with the planning that was laid out based on ergonomics, I guess, for lack of a better term. And then you look at Atlanta, that whole, you know, FU thing really does make sense. And it's fu black people.

[Ben Bol]

Unfortunately, this is true. And it happened all around town. We're happy to report that after just 72 days of public outcry, the infamous famous Atlanta wall of Cascade Heights was torn down. But again, palimpsest. Right? That's why you'll still run into odd name changes and weird dead end streets. Luckily, experts like our aforementioned Dan Moore can tell us that some streets in Atlanta have been renamed to honor prominent non racist people. Civil rights leaders especially. This makes sense, right? We're the home of Dr. Martin Luther

[Noel Brown]

King, of course, and it's there, as well as Ebenezer Baptist church and you know, prominently displayed signage and plaques. And, you know, there is a lot of good work done to honor the history of Atlanta that surrounds the civil rights movement and a lot of things that are the antithesis of the kinds of petty racist acts that we're talking about in today's episode. More notes. If you're looking for street names now, you ought to understand who those people are. Joseph E. Boone Lauer, Donald Lee Hollowell. Those are street names that mean something. So do yourself a favor and google all these folks. They've got stories in and of themselves that matter.

[Ben Bol]

We Also know that at least three Atlanta streets have been renamed. They were formerly Confederate. They had the word Confederate somewhere in the names. They were official story age. These streets like Confederate Avenue, I know you and I spent some time there. They were not named after the Confederacy of the Civil War, but they were named after a nursing home for Confederate veterans in the area. Still, this reminded a lot of people of some very nasty stuff. So we want to shout out a grassroots campaign called neighbors for a new name. They successfully, just like those racist dudes earlier, they successfully went to the city council and the mayor and they said, please change these street names. In 2018, some pretty interesting stuff happened.

[Noel Brown]

That's right. In 2018, Mayor Keisha Lance Bottom signed a bill that officially renamed a lot of these streets. In November 2019, Confederate Avenue became United Avenue, East Confederate Avenue became East United Avenue, and Confederate Confederate Court became Trestle Tree Court for the nearby apartment complex.

[Ben Bol]

Oh, man. Speaking of the Confederacy, Stone Mountain. Okay, folks, we know, we know, we know.

[Noel Brown]

A bit of a blemish.

[Ben Bol]

Yeah.

[Noel Brown]

I mean, beautiful park, beautiful mountain, but the thing tattooed on the side, not great.

[Ben Bol]

Yeah, there is still. Just so you know, folks, this is a letter from home from us to you. The city of Atlanta, which we love dearly, is arguing to this day about whether to replace the sculpture of Confederate soldiers with something more fitting. And a lot of people want it to be outcast.

[Noel Brown]

South's got something to say.

[Ben Bol]

South's got something to say.

[Noel Brown]

Thirded. Yes.

[Ben Bol]

Yes.

[Noel Brown]

The motion passes.

[Ben Bol]

We cannot thank you enough for tuning in. This is obviously a hyperlocal story for us because we, like you, we're baffled when we realized there were so many peach tree streets and there were so many strange streets that seemed to change their names.

[Noel Brown]

You know what? Hyperlocal to us. But I think a lot of this stuff really does fit into the greater history of this country and Atlanta. It looms large in other ways that we sometimes living there, take for granted. So we hope you enjoyed it.

[Ben Bol]

Yeah. We hope you visit us sometime soon. This is one of the. Is one of the most inviting cities in all of the United States. We've got some non racist Atlanta street origin stories that we're going to share with you in a future things we didn't get to episode, but we want to end by giving you one quick off the books locals guide to Atlanta. Atlanta folks, no matter how you get here, whether you land on a plane at Hartsfield or whether you drive in, you have to realize everybody is going to speak to you as though they are vaguely Related to you.

[Noel Brown]

Okay, how's.

[Max Williams]

That includes the three of us?

[Ben Bol]

That includes the three of us.

[Noel Brown]

Is there any. Maybe I'm missing something. Is this about language like vernacular or just a hospitality and hospitality.

[Ben Bol]

Just the approachable thing. You're in a line at a gas station or grocery store. The person in front of you or behind you is going to say something like, that's true. Oh, it's Mr. Shoes. And they're not saying your shoes are bad.

[Noel Brown]

There's just, I think maybe the kind of thing that folks from the east might be taken aback by that I would maybe refer to as kind of like a certain familiarity.

[Ben Bol]

Familiarity, again, like everybody is vaguely related to you. I always try to warn, especially my. My Eastern European or Scandinavian friends, you know, they think it's weird to talk on an elevator. They don't understand that it's rude here in Atlanta not to say something like, you know, is it really floor 14? And then have a little chuckle.

[Noel Brown]

Precisely.

[Ben Bol]

Thank you so much for tuning in, folks. Big, big thanks to our super producer, Mr. Max Williams. I've been your research associate for this episode. Big, big thanks, by the way, to you, Mr. Noel Brown, in particular. You're on the road and we talked about this off air and you were like, ben, no, we can't publish a classic. We gotta get the word to the people.

[Noel Brown]

We gotta do it, man. We gotta spread the good word of our hometown to the good people of the ridiculous history community. And, you know, thankfully, if I'm gonna give a thanks or a shout out out, it's to whoever made that beep go away, because it did seem to subside. I think it was some sort of alarm. Not that kind of beat, Max. Not that kind of beat, Max. It was much more of a klaxon, a bit of a. Like a. Like an air raid siren, I don't

[Ben Bol]

know, alarm clock or. Yeah, as you said, if it was

[Noel Brown]

an alarm, guys or a fire drill thing, it was very lackluster because it was just kind of incessant and, you know, yeah, didn't have an urgency. Just very obnoxious. But it did go. So hopefully you didn't have to deal with that too much. But, y', all, thanks for working with me and thanks to everybody for making this happen and everybody out there for tuning in. Thanks to Jonathan Tricklin, the Quister, AJ Bahamas Jacobs, the Puzzler, the Quister, the

[Ben Bol]

incessant beep of our hearts and heads overdue to reappear soon. Spoilers. We may have the legendary Casey on the case Peck Room returning for a future conversation.

[Noel Brown]

And true story. Definitely gonna have the fine folks over at Ridiculous Crime on for another collab episode.

[Ben Bol]

That's right. Yeah. If you dig us, you will dig those rude, rude dudes. Also, big thanks to Christopher Osciotes, Eve's Jeffcoat here in spirit. Ed Noel again, man, thanks to you. It's such a romp to look at Atlanta history and think. Think of all the places that you and Max and I have visited in person.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, the places we'll go. Thanks to you, Ben, for the research on this one and we'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[George Severis]

This is George Severis and Sam Taggart from Stratiolab. Let's be real Home comes with a lot of odors. Cooking, pets, everyday life. That's where Febreze comes in. Febreze helps fight household odors and leaves behind freshness that lasts. And with over 30 cents to choose from, you'll always find one that feels like you. Febreze Freshness that fits your life, your space, your style. Febreze is a proud sponsor of the Elton John Impact Awards, honoring those who have helped shape a more inclusive and compassionate world with their artistry, advocacy and unwavering commitment to equality. You won't want to miss the Elton John Impact Awards podcast, available on June 1st on the iHeartRadio app and everywhere Podcast Podcast are heard when people turn

[Orderly Meds Sponsor]

to healthcare for weight loss, they're looking for real support. That's why more people are choosing orderlymeds.com Orderly Meds connects you with real doctors and access to proven GLP1 medications like semaglutide and Tirzepatide. No guessing, just a more supportive experience and all shipped directly to your door in discreet packaging. Do your research, ask questions, then visit orderlymeds.com podcast for an exclusive offer. That's orderlymeds.com Individual results may vary. Not medical advice, eligibility required. See Cite for details.

[Noel Brown]

I'm U.S. transportation Secretary Sean Duffy. We all seem to be in a rush these days, but when you're behind the wheel, please do not speed. So follow the speed limit. A few minutes saved by going faster is never worth the risk.

[Okta Sponsor]

Paid for by NHTSA these days, it seems like AI agents are just about everywhere you turn every field and every function. But without identity, you can't trust they'll serve your business instead of jeopardizing it. Fortunately, Okta helps you get identity right by securing your AI agents identities, giving you a single layer of control, a single standard of trust. So whether an AI agent supports a single user or your entire enterprise, with Okta, you'll turn risk into opportunity. Secure every agent. Secure any agent. Okta secures AI this is an iHeart podcast.

[Ben Bol]

Guaranteed human.