The Story of Claudette Colvin, with Nimene Wureh

Summary

Ridiculous History: The Story of Claudette Colvin with Nimini Ware

Introduction

In the December 31, 2024 episode of Ridiculous History, hosts Ben Bolan and Noel Brown delve into the lesser-known yet profoundly impactful story of Claudette Colvin. Joined by guest Nimini Ware, creator and host of the innovative podcast Historical Records, the trio explores the intricate nuances of Colvin's role in the civil rights movement and the reasons her legacy remains overshadowed by figures like Rosa Parks.

Historical Records Podcast Overview

Historical Records is celebrated for its unique blend of hip hop and history, making historical narratives accessible and engaging for both children and adults. Described by Ben Bolan as “an explosive fusion of hip hop and history,” the podcast integrates music to breathe life into historical events and figures, ensuring that history resonates across generations.

Guest Introduction: Nimini Ware

Nimini Ware, a multi-linguist and creative force behind Historical Records, shares her journey into the world of historical storytelling. At [02:35], Nimini recounts how she transitioned from aspiring actress and voiceover artist to podcast host and songwriter. Her deep involvement in the creative process—from researching historical figures to crafting compelling musical narratives—highlights her dedication to making history “alive” and relatable.

Understanding Claudette Colvin's Story

Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old African American girl, performed an act of defiance on a segregated bus in Montgomery months before Rosa Parks, challenging discriminatory seating practices. Nimini explains at [20:39], “What people don't know is that Claudette Colvin, who was younger than Rosa Parks, actually did it before Rosa did.” Despite her bravery, Colvin’s story didn’t receive the same widespread recognition.

Historical Records' Approach to History and Music

The hosts commend Historical Records for its layered storytelling approach. Noel Brown emphasizes that the podcast contains “little Easter eggs hidden that might fly over kids' heads,” making it enjoyable for a broad audience. Nimini discusses her songwriting process, illustrating how she transforms historical research into engaging rap and musical compositions that capture the essence of each figure’s experience.

Moral Complexities in Civil Rights Narratives

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around why Claudette Colvin’s pivotal role was sidelined in favor of Rosa Parks. Ben Bolan poses a crucial question at [25:42], addressing the morally gray decisions made by movement leaders: “How she became a deep cut despite doing something so heroic.” Nimini Ware responds thoughtfully at [25:41], acknowledging the harsh realities of colorism and societal perceptions: “As a dark-skinned black woman in America, colorism is very real... It might have been more difficult to push a message across.”

Songwriting and Creative Process

Nimini details her creative process in crafting songs that encapsulate historical events. At [34:14], she explains how she merges research with personal inspiration to create authentic and impactful music. For Claudette Colvin, Nimini wrote two songs—initially a slower, jazzy piece, and later an upbeat rap to better suit the podcast’s young audience. This adaptability ensures that the stories are both accurate and resonate emotionally with listeners.

Legacy and Continuing Activism

The conversation shifts to the enduring legacy of Claudette Colvin and the importance of recognizing unsung heroes in history. Noel Brown reflects on a CBS interview segment where Colvin successfully petitioned to expunge her juvenile arrest record, symbolizing a reclaiming of her narrative. Nimini Ware underscores the podcast’s role in activism by disseminating these crucial stories, stating, “If you have some information and you share it in whatever capacity, that could be considered activism.”

Conclusion

Ben Bolan encapsulates the episode’s enduring message by likening the human race to a team sport: “History is a continuing conversation. It’s not really a past tense thing.” The episode concludes with Historical Records premiering Nimini Ware’s powerful song about Claudette Colvin, serving as both an educational tool and a tribute to her resilience.

Notable Quotes

• Nimini Ware ([20:39]): “What people don't know is that Claudette Colvin, who was younger than Rosa Parks, actually did it before Rosa did.”

• Ben Bolan ([25:42]): “How she became a deep cut despite doing something so heroic.”

• Nimini Ware ([25:41]): “As a dark-skinned black woman in America, colorism is very real... It might have been more difficult to push a message across.”

• Nimini Ware ([34:14]): “I merge research with personal inspiration to create authentic and impactful music.”

Final Song: "Claudette, That's My Name"

The episode culminates with Nimini Ware’s original song, "Claudette, That's My Name," which artistically narrates Colvin's courageous stand and its significant role in sparking the Montgomery Bus Boycott. The lyrics poignantly highlight Colvin’s personal struggles and legacy, ensuring her story resonates with listeners:

Claudette, that's my name...
It began with me, did you know?
I wouldn't give up my seat...
Bus boycott began with me.

This musical piece encapsulates the essence of Claudette Colvin’s bravery and serves as a moving reminder of the often-overlooked figures who have shaped history.

Where to Learn More

To explore more about Historical Records, Nimini Ware invites listeners to visit her website at www.nimini.com. The podcast is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and other major platforms, continuing its mission to make history engaging and accessible through the universal language of music.

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Ridiculous History effectively sheds light on Claudette Colvin’s pivotal role in the civil rights movement, while also celebrating innovative approaches to historical storytelling. Through engaging discussions and creative expression, the episode underscores the importance of recognizing and honoring all contributors to societal change.

Transcript

[Ben Bolan]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you as always, so much for tuning in. Let's hear it for the man, the myth, the legend, our super producer, Mr. Max Williams. The crowd goes wild.

[Noel Brown]

It does do that.

[Ben Bolan]

Hey, who. Who are those dulcet tones over there? Why, I spy Mr. Noel Brown with your little eye. You spy me and my big one too Funny. I have very disparate eye sizes.

[Noel Brown]

It's true. It's a podcast, but you can use your imagination and picture Ben's bizarro eye situation. No, actually, Ben, that's not true. You're being hard on yourself.

[Ben Bolan]

Your eyes are gorgeous.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, thank you.

[Noel Brown]

I like to gaze into them.

[Ben Bolan]

If anything, I do have what they call rom com eyes and I appreciate that.

[Noel Brown]

I don't know what that means.

[Ben Bolan]

It's something I made up.

[Noel Brown]

Is that like bedroom eyes?

[Ben Bolan]

Who knows, you know, that's up to you. Ridiculous Historians. Write to us and let us know what rom com eyes are, what Ben.

[Noel Brown]

Bolan's eyes look like to you when you gaze into them longingly.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, that's me. I'm going by Ben, Mike, Jack Bolan for today's episode. And Noel, you and I have something very, very special here at the end of the.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, gosh, you're right.

[Ben Bolan]

We are both avid fans of music. You know, I particularly am a huge fan of hip hop. You are a multi instrumentalist, and we.

[Noel Brown]

Both go out for history occasionally. You know, we sort of talk about it from time to time. Yes, 100%. I do like to make beats in my spare time. And you also have been known to drop some fire bars in your spare time from time to time.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, my gosh. Thank you. I'm Twitter painted. This is also the time for us to say that we might be working on a little music off the books together.

[Noel Brown]

True.

[Ben Bolan]

But we are doing something song related today. An exploration that we are so excited about. We are. This is a true story. We are hanging out with the creator, the host, I dare say the musician behind the fantastic podcast, Historical Records. Noel, can you help me with the introduction here?

[Noel Brown]

Boy, can I ever. We'd love to. Welcome to Ridiculous History, the wonderful Nimini Ware of Historical Records Fame.

[Nimini Ware]

Yay.

[Noel Brown]

We're really good at intros, aren't we, Nimini? It's like sort of our thing. We don't even need to. We don't even need to go on from here. We'll just like, let it lie with the intro. No, I'm kidding. Nimini. Welcome to whatever this show's called. This is called ridiculous history is what this is called.

[Nimini Ware]

Thank you. Thank you for having me. Very excited to be here.

[Noel Brown]

Of course. So you know, Ben kind of set it up. You know, Historical Wrecks is a, I guess it's been described to me often as history with a beat. It's a podcast kind of created in conjunction with the wonderful Story Pirates kind of children's podcast network company, production house, and also Questlove's production company and yourself. And I've described it to many folks as sort of like a almost like a audio hip hop themed Yo Gabba Gabba that very much leans on history. And I hope you take that as a compliment. Cause I think Yo Gabba Gabba it does.

[Nimini Ware]

I definitely. That was definitely my show back in the day. I've never heard it described like that. I hope you don't mind. I think I'm gonna steal it.

[Noel Brown]

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[Ben Bolan]

An explosive fusion of hip hop and history described as tailor made for music loving kids and families. And to be honest, when I was hearing some of these episodes earlier I started sending them to my nieces to just to let kids know that I'm cool. So thank you.

[Noel Brown]

It's important. It's important to let to remind them occasionally. But you know it's neat because it really is something that is certainly appealing to kids, but it has such a broad appeal to adults as well because there's so much stuff, kind of little Easter eggs hidden that might fly over kids heads, but it's just really multilayered and just an absolute joy to listen to. Can you tell us a little bit about kind of how this came together and sort of how your role sort of solidif in this in this world of historical records?

[Nimini Ware]

Yeah, so Historical records, as you mentioned. It came. It's from the beautiful minds of the people at Story Parts. Lee Overtree, myself, Questlove, Jonathan Glickman. And so it was maybe. It was like, I feel like during the pandemic, or maybe right after the pandemic. So a few years ago, Lee came to me with this idea, this new project that he had coming together and wanted me to audition to be the host. And I think at the time, I had been doing story pirates and voiceover for a while, which was never a lane I thought I would go into. And I. I wanted to be, like, an actress. Like, I wanted to do theater. I wanted to do tv. So I was like, okay, I need to, like, take a break from the voiceover and focus more on this other stuff. So I. At first, I was like, no, I don't want to audition. And so then he comes back a few months later, and it's just like, nimini, can you just please just send me into anything? Just send me whatever and, like, send me something. And then just because I love Lee. He's such a sweetie. I was like, fine, or whatever. So then I just recorded some stuff. I was having fun, sent it in, and he's like, great, Jonathan Glickman wants to meet you. And I was like, oh, okay, great. So I was actually. I was babies. I was a nanny at the time, and I was at work, and the mom, she was a. She worked from home. So I was like, hey, like, is it okay? I have this, like, interview. Can you, like, take the baby for, like, 10 minutes so I can, like, have this interview? And she was so amazing. She was like, oh, my God, of course. So she took the baby and they went in the living room. Then I just, like, had an interview with Jonathan Glickman and with Lee and with Jamie Sacca, who's also, like, the creator of Story parts with Lee. And then, I mean, it just went really well. And then from there, I kind of just. I got the job. And then we started brainstorming on what did we want it to look like, what is the format? What are our themes? Like, how. Who are the people we want to talk about and what is the message we want to send? You know, all the background stuff. And then do I want to also be a writer and, like, what does my role look like as the producer? Creative producer. And so then we talked about all of that. And then, I mean, then we just, like, started rolling. And I wrote. I think I wrote the first song by Claudette Coleman. Song. I wrote that, like, Two, three years ago. It's been a second. And so. Yeah, and so that's how it came about and how I became a part of it.

[Noel Brown]

Pandemic kind of created a time warp for all of us. It's a little hard to even envision the time.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh boy. And I would also love to share a couple of fun facts. Not to put you too much in the spotlight here, but Nimini, so we could get to know you. I am incredibly curious, in your background as a polyglot, is it true that you speak four languages?

[Nimini Ware]

It is true. I guess I can say that I'm proficient in three and the fourth is like in like beginner intermediate.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, that's great. I terrible at three. And the first one I'm proficient in mildly is English.

[Noel Brown]

I'm not that great at the one. I mean. And also, you know, I was once a small German boy, as I say on the show, and I was born in Germany and went to proper German kindergarten, but I think I probably still barely speak German at a kindergarten level. So what are the ones you're proficient in?

[Nimini Ware]

So I'm proficient. I mean, obviously I always say English because, you know, that adds to the number counts.

[Ben Bolan]

It counts. Everyone's a win. Yeah.

[Nimini Ware]

And then French. French is what I started learning. Second. I love French. Oh my God. And in Spanish, you know, the basics. Because also my, my brother's like girl. Well, fiance, long time partner is Mexican and she always spoke Spanish to me growing up, so I just like learned from her. And then I started learning Korean during the pandemic.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, nice. You got the hat, Duffy. Little pandemic angle. I love it.

[Nimini Ware]

Yeah.

[Ben Bolan]

Hand goals, the Alphabet.

[Nimini Ware]

Oh, yes.

[Ben Bolan]

You see, I'm not that proficient.

[Noel Brown]

Well, we're all. But that's incredible. So you know, the creative side of it super interests me because I mean it is like any kind of show like this is going to have a lot of folks involved. But what did that kind of creative participation sort of end up becoming, you know, for you with the, with historical records, with the show? Yeah, with like, you know, how, like how much were you involved in the songwriting, the day to day creation and also picking the historical figures that you guys wanted to cover?

[Nimini Ware]

Yeah, oh yeah, definitely. I think I was very involved in the process, especially with like at the way beginning of figuring out as I was saying before, like the themes and what we wanted to do and like how we wanted to to format it and like how we wanted my character to be because I also have a character, Nimini on Story Pirates, who is different from this character, Nimini, on historical records. So then we were talking about, like, bouncing around ideas of do we want her to have a sidekick and what do we want the sidekick to look like and such. And just doing research on people that we wanted to talk about in the podcast. Doing, going through the script, like, working at making edits, making comments, listening to the drafts. I'm a part of, like, every. Every part of it, but I'm especially a part of the songwriting portion, the music, because music is a first love of mine and I love writing music. And so I've written a few songs, a few choruses, and a few full songs for the podcast that I'm very excited about. And, yeah, I mean, I'm just really involved, like, everywhere.

[Ben Bolan]

And one thing that really stands out and differentiates historical records is that there's this narrative spine of music. It is a character in the story. Right. Each episode it moves us through. We were talking a bit off air. We'd love to give people just a sample taste, maybe. By Noel. What do you think? Playing the theme song?

[Noel Brown]

Absolutely.

[Max Williams]

Historical records.

[Noel Brown]

You are now listening to historical record.

[G]

To make history, you got to have struggle. To make history, you got to show poise cannot be quiet, loud as a riot to make history, got to make some noise.

[Noel Brown]

But, man, I mean, just from the first moment that I heard that theme song, I fully understood what this show was about. The idea of you have to have poise, you know, of these notions of the types of historical figures that you're discussing, which for some people, you might consider them kind of, if we're using, like, hip hop terms, kind of deep cuts. Like, a lot of these folks I was not personally, super, super aware of. There were a few that I was, and then more than that, ones that I wasn't familiar with. People like Ida Tarbell, who is like a very important investigative journalist who was the subject of the very first episode. Each episode also features interviews with kind of subject matter experts. And that one, a fabulous interview with Susan Orlean, who I'm a big fan of, from her work on the Orchid Thief, which is a film that was adapted into one of my favorite films of all time, adaptation. And just, you know, the idea of exploring some of these figures and giving a little bit more kind of meat on the bones for some of these folks that maybe folks have heard of just kind of like in whispers or in little snips and snaps here and there. But can you kind of talk about how that aspect was so important? And it's a little hard to Even choose which ones of these figures that maybe folks aren't fully aware of to pick.

[Nimini Ware]

Yeah, I think I don't know what we really wanted. I mean, which is exactly everything that you guys have been expressing about how they're like, to use your words, like deep cuts and things and people that are just so prominent in our everyday lives who have done things to really change how things work these days, and we just don't know anything about. And so it is really tough to choose because there are so many that we don't know about, which is why we're, you know, hoping to continue this and continue highlighting people in history. But I think just it's really about kind of what we wanted this first season because, you know, we're still figuring it out. So what we wanted the first season to be and what it was that we wanted to express. We wanted to start with some who. With people who were maybe like people knew about them but didn't really know. So it didn't seem too, like, too far removed from what people understand. And then, you know, as we go on, we will be more, maybe a little bit more obscure.

[Ben Bolan]

I love that someone says, oh, I've heard the name, but I don't know the story. Right. And I think that also speaks to the approachability here because I'm immediately sucked in with the pace and the exploration of this. Choosing one historic figure has to be, you know, an embarrassment of riches, as they say. Right. And one thing that we are extremely excited to learn with you about today is the true story from the civil rights that a lot of people simply aren't aware of. Right. They may have heard the name Claudette Culp. They've definitely heard the name Rosa Parks. But they may not understand the full detail behind these two historical figures.

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[Ben Bolan]

As you said earlier, you have been incredibly interested in Colvin well before historical records becomes a show. So we'd love to. We'd love to learn Maybe we'd love to learn the full story. Maybe we can start with what people know about Rosa Parks.

[Nimini Ware]

Yeah. So what people know about Rosa Parks is that she sat during the Montgomery bus boycott. She sat on the bus in the section that was marked off for whites, and then she refused to give up her seat for a white woman. And then she ended up being dragged off the bus, going to jail. And it started this whole movement. What people don't know is that Claudette Colvin, who was younger than Rosa Parks was actually, she. She did it before Rosa did. So Claudette was very young. And, you know, she goes. She would go to school on the. On the bus. And so essentially. Essentially, she just did the same thing. She didn't get off the bus when they asked her to. So then they dragged her off the bus, and then they took her to jail, and they put her in an adult jail sale instead of with.

[Ben Bolan]

When she's 15.

[Nimini Ware]

When she's 15? Yes. When she's 15, they put her in with the adults when she's supposed to be with, you know, the juveniles. And so then her friends went, ran and told her family, like, what was going on. And then it became this whole thing, and they got her out. And then as she grew up, she had to, like, move. She ended up having to move because of all the harassment that was coming from the white people in the area. Like, her family and her neighborhood and her community would stay up on her block all night and, like, keep watch to make sure nobody was coming for her. And she ended up having a lab, and she moved to New York. But what was also really interesting about her, for me, is that she. She had been learning. She was a part of, like, this in naacp. She was part of the naacp, and she was in the. She was a part of the group that Rosa Parks was a part of, the organized group that essentially, like, created or. Or got the Montgomery Bus Boy got started. And so Rosa Parks was one of her mentors. And so the story. Well, as I. What I've learned is that she wasn't able to be the one that was. That became well known for it or to be the face of the movement, essentially, because she was younger and because she was darker skinned and because they just felt like Rosa Parks was more palatable for people, you know?

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. I've been listening to some interviews with Colvin, who is still alive with us, thankfully, and is an absolutely delightful human being. And there was a piece on. I think it was CBS News. It was like, one of the morning show segments where when she was arrested, they basically threw the book at her and accused her of all kinds of felonies, including attacking police officers. She was accused of swearing at them and clawing them and all of these horrible things that she, of course, did not do. And then ultimately, a lot of those more heinous kind of charges were stripped due to the NAACP's actions and lawyers and things like that that were involved. But that charge that remained of her getting arrested, it did remain on her record up until about three years ago. She petitioned that was during the George Floyd riots and protests. She decided she wanted to get that stricken from her record, and she petitioned to do that. And the judge who had that stricken from her record expunged. They meet for the very first time on this CBS MORNING segment. And it was just the sweetest thing. She's just so and she barely knows what to say. And it is an African American man. And I think that was just a moment that was really powerful for both of them to have that meeting. So that was just again, seeing her personality and how she kind of explained the situation. But one thing I thought was really interesting, we've talked in the past about women's suffrage movements, and there was a whole period where women would wear these sharp hat pins or hair pins in their hair. And so if they were attacked by men, they would have a way of defending themselves. And Colvin talks about when she was incarcerated, how she wished she had one of these because she didn't know, you know, what was going to happen to her in this adult jail when she was locked up, and how she was scared to fall asleep, you know, lest she be assaulted. So, I mean, this is all these stakes are very, very high for this young woman who is obviously very brave and put herself in this situation. I'm just wondering how you see that kind of legacy as she's kind of talking about this stuff, thinking about this so many years back. She said she remembers the click of the key in the jail cell and all of that. I don't know. It's just the legacy of it is so fascinating to me, and it's so neat that we can still hear this directly from her. Was wondering if you'd seen any of those interviews or kind of explored more of how she looks back on it today.

[Nimini Ware]

I haven't done much since writing the song about more about more research on Claudette, so I haven't actually seen that interview, but I will definitely look it up after.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, highly recommend. It's a great watch.

[Ben Bolan]

And let's let's go to another thing because I know a lot of our fellow listeners are going to be curious on this one. Nemeni, there's something you said which is I think a very troubling aspect of the story. How Colvin ended up getting, for lack of a better word, sideline.

[Noel Brown]

Right.

[Ben Bolan]

How she became a deep cut despite doing something so heroic. From what I understand, it's very important that we make this clear for the audience. Colvin was. Colvin became a victim of attempts at PR or branding campaigns because as you said, there was the skin color issue as the movement leaders saw it, and perhaps even more importantly, the fact that she was unmarried and pregnant. Pregnant at the time. When we talk about this internal decision for folks to sort of orchestrate Rosa Parks in place of this earlier person who did the same thing, what can we learn about. I mean, it seems like a very morally gray kind of decision. What do you think was going on? And perhaps do we agree or disagree with the reasoning of the movement leaders?

[Nimini Ware]

Oh man, that is the question. That's. I want to say, I don't know. I hope this doesn't sound bad, but I feel like, I would say I like morally, obviously I would disagree. But I think just realistically with how the world, how America works and the time in which everything was happen, I would say I agree. I think, you know, as a dark skinned black woman in America, colorism is very real. And I have experience, I experienced different treatment and I have experienced blatant, just like microaggressions and racism compared to lighter, my lighter skinned black woman. And so I recognize that if in a way, especially during that time, you know, if you want a certain thing to move forward, you have to think about what's best for the mission. And what's best, like what's going to get people, what people are going to pay attention to. And I think because they already don't pay attention to darker skinned people and didn't see them or us as humans at the time, that it might have been more difficult to push a message across. So yeah, that's what I would say. I think that's a tough one.

[Noel Brown]

I know, I'm totally with you. And the way you guys handle it on historical records I think is really admirable because you do address that question. You do address that kind of moral gray area. But at the end of the day, it is sort of about, you know, and I think Claudette knew that this decision was important and understood that, you know, that she needed to take that backseat and that it was Important for someone maybe that was. Had that prominence, was a little older, was part of the naacp, be that kind of face of the movement. So I don't know. I just think that calculation, while maybe question, easy to question or easy to kind of look sideways at, made perfect sense at the time and maybe maximize the impact of the movement. And then of course, Claudette did ultimately get her due and was very well respected within the movement, even though she may be overshadowed, big picture, historically speaking, you know, by Rosa Parks.

[Ben Bolan]

And Rosa Parks being the mentor to Claudette is also a. Or a mentor is also another, another part of the story. There's, there's that famous quote that Rosa Parks made after the fact. And she said if the white press got ahold of that information, meaning the personal detail, details about Claudette's life, they would have had a field day. They'd call her a bad kid. Her case wouldn't have a chance. So there's also, I think this argument that they may have said they were in some way protecting this kid. This is a child. We have to remember that. It's a fascinating story. And I know we got to, as you said, Noel, the, the judge who expunged that, that conviction way after the fact, but could you tell us how you personally first began learning about Colvin's story?

[Nimini Ware]

Yeah, so I actually learned a little bit about it before, like, years before the podcast. So my mom, my mom was in prison for a while and so she was a part of this writing group and she was assigned a project to write about a historical figure. And lo and behold, she chose Claudette Colvin. And so, you know, when we would have our phone calls, like, she would, she would tell me about, like, what she had been learning about Claudette. And I was like, oh my God.

[G]

Like, wait, wait a minute.

[Nimini Ware]

I thought it was Rosa Parks. So then, so I started learning about it from my mom through her writing projects. And so. And then after that, when, and then, and then I just learned more about her as I was recording the episode and looking at all the research and to write the song about her.

[Max Williams]

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[Ben Bolan]

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[Ben Bolan]

Ebay things people love. And with this, too. This is something that I think is brilliant about historical records. It is all too easy when we're learning about history to feel that we are forced to interrogate dusty tomes. You know, there's someone lecturing time and date to you, names of people that we might not ever meet. But historical records brings history alive by doing a psychological thing that I'm quite a fan of, which is encoding information through music. Could you tell us a little bit about your songwriting process on historical records and how you guys encapsulate these deep cuts of history in a way that's approachable again, to even like, my six year old niece thinks I'm cool again.

[G]

Thank you.

[Nimini Ware]

You're welcome. No, I'm just kidding. But to my songwriting processes, it like, differs, but specifically for this song. So I get. I get a research packet. Like, someone does a lot of research, and then I get that packet and then I go through. Well, first, you know, they were like, hey, do you want to write this song about Kaleida Cove? And I was like, one second, let me see about. Let me Google this. And yeah, so then. Then I'm like, yes. Oh my God, she's so cool. And so I look through the research packet that they. And then I create my own. I create my own document and then I'll put like, the information that I feel like I would want to include in a song. I'll put that on my document. And then I go and I do my own research, listen to her interviews and do everything I need to do. And also get my own research and put it in the document as well. And then I go through and I'm like, okay, well, what's a theme? What were the things that stuck out to me in this research and in her story? And then what, like, what can I create from that? And so I actually wrote two songs for Claudette. The first one I wrote was. It was. It was slower. It was more like jazzy, like bluesy at A James style. And. And it was about. And it was more about like the. The particular moment of her being pulled, dragged off of the bus and, and taken to jail. So it was about that specific that day. And so then I like sent it over and they're like, oh, this is great weights. And then I got really sick. I was really sick. And I was in bed for like a day and I was listening to the song and I was like. I was like, I think this needs to be like, more upbeat. Like, this is for kids. I like this song. As for me to lay down and listen to, but this is. I need to, like, keep in mind my audiences. And so I was like, you know what? Let me like, make something more upbeat and also like, let me just rap. This is a hip hop podcast. Why am I trying to do blues right now? I can do that another time. Like, so I was like, let me just do some rapping. So then I went back into my back treatment, got more research, and I was like, okay, so there's not, like, enough essentially here. I mean, I could have stretched it, but I don't like to, like, make things, like, I don't like, fluff. So I was like, there's not too. Too much. There's a lot there, but too much for like a full, like three and a half, four minute song of me talking really fast. So I was like, okay, then what else can I talk about? Let me just talk about her entire life. Great. Because I think her life is so interesting. So I was like, great, she's got the sister. She was adopted. Like, I was like, oh, there's all these things that, like, I think are cool to also humanize her. And it's like she's not just the being dragged off the bus and being. And not being a part of the movement. And she's also like a whole entire human being who had a life before this and who had a life after this. So I was like, let's just humanize her and let's do that. So then I just, like, wrote it. I wrote it in a few hours, and then I recorded it in my closet. And then I just sent it over. And then they were like, neme, this is amazing, right? I was like, oh, use that one. The other song, I spent like weeks on it. And then this one, I felt like.

[Noel Brown]

Sometimes that's how the inspiration goes, you know? I mean, like, you're just in, like a moment where something hits you and you just kind of churn it out, like in a heartbeat. And I think it really shows. Cause this song that we're going to hear in a bit is just kind of, you know, full of inspiration. And, you know, it does make me kind of look back too, at some of Colvin's kind of quotable quotes. And there's one in particular that she says a lot in interviews and that I really love. And that has a poetry to it as well. She says when asked, like, why she didn't get up from that seat. Cause it's crazy too. Apparently. It was not only. It wasn't just one seat, it was four seats because, like, whites and blacks were not black people were not allowed to sit next to or adjacent to white people. So she had to give up four seats, which is just bonkers. And when asked why she didn't want to get up, she said, history glued me to the seat. I felt like Sojourner Truth was pushing down on one shoulder and Harriet Tubman was pushing down on the other, saying, sit down, girl. And I was glued to my seat. I don't know. There's just something powerful and really expressive about that that kind of, I think, sums the whole thing up. And I think you achieved that same kind of poetry in your song.

[Nimini Ware]

Oh, thank you. Yeah, I was very inspired by that because in the. Like, in the first song, I did use a lot of her quotes from interviews, and I put them in there, and that was a big one where I was like. I also wrote a line on that as well because I just. I was very inspired by that because. Because I don't know, just to be so young and to be so confident, so headstrong, and just, like, know what you want and know that you're not being treated right and to be able to stand up for that, that's just like that. I feel like you don't come across that often.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, it's. It's one of those things that people with a benefit of retrospect will imagine themselves doing, you know, to look back and say, oh, I could have. I would have done that. But all too often in the moment, we see that what people like to think of themselves doing versus what they will do can be two very different things. One other part of Colvin's statements that really stood out in a heartbreaking way in several interviews is the context that she gives. Not just the. More a poetic, historical line of feeling glued to the seat, but she often says, look, if the lady was elderly, I might have moved. And that, to me, was a sort of damning, heartbreaking look at the context of the time. You know what I mean? Because we get the feeling that Claudette was clearly able to. To discern that. You know, it's not like you're giving up your seat for someone with mobility issues or an elderly person.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, the very definition of white. The idea of white privilege. I mean, that's sort of where it was invented. Yeah. No, you're 100% on the money there, Ben. One thing I love, too, about the format of historical records is how in your segments where you have interviews with kind of subject matter experts, you have an actual fact, to quote our friend Lauren Vogelbaum, small child doing the interviewing, and you kind of moderating.

[Ben Bolan]

Brilliant.

[Noel Brown]

And there's a wonderful segment on the Claudette Colman episode where, I'm sorry, the young girl's name is escaping me, but interviews Roxane Gay about kind of the civil rights movement and about being an activist. And one thing that the segment kind of leaves you with is this idea that anyone could be an activist and that, you know, there's always, you know, while we sometimes look at like the civil rights movement as something from the past, very much still the movement needs to persist and needs to continue. And that there is, to quote Roxanne, you know, still a lot of work to be done. I just wonder if you see, you know, how you see like that idea of anyone can be an activist. And you know, you, by doing this podcast, you are being an activist. And I don't know anything you might say to young people about how to, to continue telling these kinds of stories and to continue standing up for what's right. Any parting words of wisdom or anything like that.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. And what they take away from historical records.

[Nimini Ware]

Yeah. Okay. I never even considered myself an activist by doing this podcast. So I guess that just goes to show that, I mean, if you have some information, if you know, if you have some information on something and you share it in whatever capacity, whether that's creatively making your own work, writing a story, writing a song, creating a podcast, or even just like talking to your friends about, about something that you're passionate about that you feel like an activism doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be. I feel like for me, I always thought activism was like, I have to be in the streets. I have to be like getting shot by rubber bullets. But I think it could be as simple as literally writing a letter. Literally writing a letter. I feel like it could be anything simple.

[Noel Brown]

That's why I thought the quote was so powerful or that piece, because it just shows how anyone can do this. It doesn't have to be this grand high minded idea of what you're talking about, like being out in the streets, being directly in harm's way. It starts with just talking to people and sharing and also just in our own way, not standing, you know, not standing for injustice.

[Nimini Ware]

Right. And I think, I think also it's so cute. There's a little, a quote what, what she says. I. I'm. Her name is escaping me as well. But with Roxane Gay, when she's interviewing her and the, the young, the little child or what you said. And Roxanne was like, yeah. And she's like, there's. We have a lot of work to do. But as you said, and then the little girl was, well, how much work do we have to do? And I just thought, I thought that was so sweet. I thought it was so sweet. And then I'm like, well, now she's gonna go to her friends and be like, well, you guys, we got a lot of work to do. So let's get started. Yeah, well.

[Noel Brown]

And Roxanne almost doesn't know how to answer that because she is flummoxed by that, where she's like, I ask myself this every single day. And it's like, you know, while you don't want to let the weight of the negative things in the world kind of crack crush you, you know, you do need to kind of always be moving forward, always be asking questions and never standing for injustice, you know, and in our own way, I think we can all do that in some small way, even if we're not necessarily, you know, out there in the streets being shot at by a rubber bullet.

[Ben Bolan]

The way I like to put it, Nemeni, is that the human race is a team sport. The human race is the ultimate group project. Right? Just like in school. And there are lessons surround us. History is a continuing conversation. It's not really a past tense thing. And as we often say here on the show, history is way closer than it looks in the rearview mirror. We want to thank you again so much for spending time with us. We have a special treat for our ridiculous historians at the very end of this episode. But before we go off to various adventures, we have to ask, ask, where can people learn more about your work, not just with historical records, but with story Pirates, you, your background in sketch comedy, and if I'm not telling tales out of school, a little bit of theater.

[Nimini Ware]

Oh, yeah. Well, you can learn more about me on my website, www.nimini.com. and that's Nimini. N. As in November, I am as in March E and as in November.

[Ben Bolan]

And folks, that is our show. We are not, as they say, blowing smoke. Historical records is awesome. In full disclosure, Noel, you're affiliated with this project as well, correct?

[Wheezy WTF]

Oh, yeah.

[Noel Brown]

I've had the absolute pleasure to work with Lee and the story Pirates folks and the Questlove team. I didn't do anything creatively. I just helped kind of be the liaison between the outside production companies and iHeart, and they've just been incredible. Lee Overstreet is a wonderful person and an absolute creative genius and such an incredible voice when it comes to telling these stories that are, of course, geared towards kids, but like we said earlier, absolutely applicable to so many other types of folks and walks of life. And, you know, I just think it's a fabulous show and I'm really proud of what they've made.

[Ben Bolan]

Agreed. Big, big thanks to our super producer, Mr. Max Williams. Big thanks to Alex Williams. Spoilers, folks. Listen through our thank yous. Because we do have a treat at the end.

[Noel Brown]

Yes, Ben, it's true. You had the brilliant idea of saving the best for last. This is the song that we were discussing the whole time that Nimini wrote herself lyrically and was produced in conjunction with the team at Story Pirates and Questlove's crew. And we just are so stoked about it. Ben, you absolutely texted the group the moment you heard it about how excited you were about it. It really does have a bit of an earwormy hook and it tells the.

[Ben Bolan]

Story brilliantly, stem to stern. So big, big thanks to the good folks at Historical Records. Of course, huge thanks to Nemini. This is what we're talking about when we say education through music.

[Noel Brown]

Indeed. And in advance. Let's just, you know, the usual thanks, of course, to our guest, Nemeny Ware, the folks over at Historical Records, Jonathan Strickland, the Quizzter, AJ Bahamas Jacobs, the.

[Ben Bolan]

And so without further ado, we cannot wait to share with you Neme's song about Claudette Colvin.

[Noel Brown]

We don't have to wait. Here it is right now. See you next time, folks.

[G]

Claudette, that's my name. Ms. Alabama born and raised sis Montgomery, to be specific. Hope you don't mind. These on the Ritz. 090539 the birth date of a future leader Silver activist, a catalyst to be Montgomery bus boycott began with me. Montgomery bus boycott that is correct. A lot of people don't know about this juicy tidbit. Couldn't be the face of the movement because I wasn't rich and because of my complexion I'm never in the press. Just think I was only 15, following my routine in a segregated seat. Years after that occurrence, I couldn't find work and I moved to New York.

[Nimini Ware]

And got into nursing.

[G]

It began with May.

[Nimini Ware]

Nine months before.

[G]

Did you know? Did you know I wouldn't give up my seat? Let me start from the beginning. My dad left Mama's wallet was thinning see I was born Claudette Austin. Then I went to live with my uncle and my aunt and that's how.

[Nimini Ware]

I got the name Calvin.

[G]

Had a little sister yeah, I was the oldest. Lost her Napoleon God only knows my pain. I was sociologically estranged Booking T. Washington High School. I started going there in 1952. I was in the city, a place I couldn't walk to so riding the bus is what I had to do. It was 1955. I didn't give up my seat. They called the police and they arrested me. But I had been learning about my ancestry and then the youth council was NAACP so I said I know my constitutional rights there is an empty row beside me so this isn't right Jim Crow says black consideration crossing the white we always got to be behind them and this I don't like Put me off the bus I didn't fight or fuss I didn't feel fear cuz I was young and tough they put me in an adult cell with no phone call but my friends went to find my mom and it began with me nine months before all that it was Claudette Co and it began with me did you know? Did you know I wouldn't give up my sleep now I One year later we had Brother versus Gail. I was one of five plaintiffs talking about how the law had failed all of us and we wasn't going to take at the federal court they made their decision. The Supreme Court they made their decision. They said bus segregation was against the Constitution and they ended it permanently and it began with me. Bus boy just began with me.

[Nimini Ware]

Oh I almost forgot.

[G]

The city of Montgomery, Alabama declared March.

[Nimini Ware]

2 Claudette Colvin Day.

[Wheezy WTF]

For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Mandy B]

Welcome to Decisions Decisions, the podcast where boundaries are pushed and conversations get candid. Join your favorite hosts, Me, Wheezy wtf and me, Mandy B. As we dive deep into the world of non traditional relationships and explore the often taboo topics surrounding dating, sex and love. That's right. Every Monday and Wednesday we both invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability and authenticity, we share our personal journeys, navigating our 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships and engage in thought provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations. From groundbreaking interviews with diverse guests to relatable stories that'll resonate with your experiences, Decisions Decisions is gonna be your Go to source for the open dialogue about what it truly means to love and connect in today's world. Get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connections. Tune in and join the conversation. Listen to Decisions Decisions on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.