Ridiculous History: The Terrifying Science of Tiny Subs and D-Day, Part One

Podcast: Ridiculous History
Hosts: Ben Bowlin & Noel Brown
Guest: Dr. Rachel "Big Spinach" Lance
Date: September 9, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown welcome back Dr. Rachel “Big Spinach” Lance, expert on underwater blast physics and author of In the Waves and Chamber Divers. Together, they explore the hidden science, experimental risks, and wild personalities behind submarine technology and D-Day. This is part one of a two-part dive into the overlooked, bizarre, and sometimes terrifying story of the scientists who helped make the Normandy landings possible.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catching Up with Dr. Rachel “Big Spinach” Lance

• Dr. Lance’s Bona Fides: Former professor, now full-time researcher and author. Has left “the lifestyle” (jokes about sock-and-sandal privileges) [04:48].
• Recap of the H.L. Hunley: Confederate Civil War submarine, home-built from boiler parts, famously vanished after a successful mission in 1864. Raised in 2000, crew found dead at stations, mystery persists. [05:33]
  • Quote: “Everyone just kind of slumped over at their battle stations and it was like, we have achieved our goal. Farewell, cruel world.” – Dr. Lance [06:02]
• Clive Cussler’s Role: Author helped bring publicity, resources, and final resolution to Hunley’s discovery story [07:01].

2. From the Hunley to D-Day: Science and Secrecy

• Connection to D-Day: Dr. Lance’s latest book Chamber Divers uncovers the story of British scientists who secretly solved deadly underwater problems to make D-Day feasible. [09:10]
  • Quote: “We always like to say this at parties. We know the world's foremost authority on underwater explosions. It’s so niche and we love it.” – Noel [09:48]
• What Was at Stake: D-Day (June 6, 1944) was the first successfully executed beach invasion of its scale; prior attempts like Gallipoli ended in disaster.
  • Quote: “No military had successfully done that before. Every previous attempt had resulted in absolute massacre on the beaches.” – Dr. Lance [13:45]

3. The Human Side—Normandy’s Local Perspective

• Dr. Lance describes French gratitude and the ongoing emotional weight of D-Day for Normandy residents [10:59].
  • Quote: “Even young people were deeply moved by that event and how much the world really came to France with a specific purpose… They very much have the mentality and attitude that they were rescued.” – Dr. Lance [11:25]
• Tangent on French butter pride and food culture [11:51].

4. Filling the "Time Warp" from Pearl Harbor to D-Day

• Three Years of Science, Not Action: The “gap” between 1941’s US entry and 1944’s D-Day was filled with frantic innovation, logistics, and human trials [13:19].
  • Secret British geneticists worked on carbon dioxide problems for subs and mini-subs, directly impacting invasion technology [13:44].

5. “Mad Science” and Unsung Mavericks

• The British team that tackled submarine and rebreather dangers were “maverick, hard-drinking” scientists working under fire, with little official guidance, risking their health in bombed-out London [22:07, 26:38].
  • “These people were… I don’t want to call them full bananas…” – Dr. Lance [22:07]
• Key Figure—John Burdon Sanderson Haldane (“JBS”): Raised in a home with a decompression chamber; he and peers tested apparatuses on themselves, often without request. [30:26]
  • “They had a gas chamber in their home that his dad would test stuff on his children… Naomi was like in charge of CPR if like a test subject passed out. And she was like 12 at the time.” – Dr. Lance [31:15]
  • The Royal Navy, after a deadly submarine disaster (HMS Thetis, 1939), realized their escape systems were untested and possibly lethal [27:51].
  • Quote: “I did an experiment and I've got the answer.” – Dr. Lance describing Haldane’s approach [32:16]

6. The State of Submarine Tech and Escape Procedures

• Pre-war, submarine escape gear was adapted from mine safety equipment, untested at underwater pressures. Disasters like the sinking of HMS Thetis (103 people trapped, only four survived) exposed fatal gaps [27:51, 29:38].
• Science had to answer basic, sometimes comical, but always deadly serious questions: How much oxygen is too much? Too little? Can people develop gills? [34:17].

7. Submariners' Mentality: A Willingness for One-way Missions

• Even today, submariners accept that if something goes wrong, survival is unlikely [40:04].
  • “If something happens to the sub, they're going down, and they seem to have like a weird peace with it… but as a scientist, let me work on this for you.” – Dr. Lance [40:04]
• The mindset was similar to test pilots or early astronauts—acceptance of risk in service of a larger mission [41:26].
• Memoir recommendation: Freak of a Feather by Kacy Tellison, exploring this attitude in modern military life [42:38].

8. The Realities of Rebreathers and "Steampunk" Tech

• Early submarine rebreathers were corrugated aluminum, rubber hoses, and canvas or leather bags—described as “as steampunk as you can possibly imagine” [45:47].
• Maintaining proper oxygen and “not panicking” critical; hyperventilation could overwhelm the system [47:22].
  • “Breathing is the thing that will kill you first.” – Dr. Lance [48:32]
• Modern systems use plastics, electronics, but the underlying life-and-death problems are still being solved.

9. Declassification and the Hidden History

• The vital research behind D-Day was classified for 70+ years, only released in 2001. Dr. Lance was first to publicly access many records, requiring FOIA requests and international archive trips [23:27, 24:40].
  • “Nobody had ever publicly read them... I was the first one to go through some of this stuff.” – Dr. Lance [24:41]

Memorable Quotes

• “Everyone just kind of slumped over at their battle stations and it was like, we have achieved our goal. Farewell, cruel world.” — Dr. Lance, on the H.L. Hunley [06:02]
• “It took those intervening years to figure out how to do that. And so that’s what I wrote about. I wrote about this one group of scientists that was a contributing factor.” — Dr. Lance, on the science behind D-Day [14:20]
• “I do think it takes a really special person…to have bombs falling on you and to say, ‘I will stay because London is where the lab is. And I think this is a big enough problem that I am willing to put my body on the line to test it.’” — Dr. Lance [22:22]
• “They had a gas chamber in their home that his dad would test stuff on his children… Naomi was like in charge of CPR if, like, a test subject passed out. And she was like 12 at the time.” — Dr. Lance [31:15]
• “Breathing is the thing that will kill you first.” — Dr. Lance [48:32]
• “We could save a little bit of money if people had gills.” — Ben [34:18] (humorous moment)

Notable Moments & Humor

• French butter pride tangent [11:51]
• Hosts joking about the perils of their upcoming cruise, extracting safety reassurance from Dr. Lance [51:24]
• Multiple diving and submarine puns: “I almost said dive into this…We’re reaching a new level of depth. Terrible puns. Some people would say they’re subpar.” [10:08, 52:45]
• Recurring tongue-in-cheek references to Dr. Lance’s “niche” expertise and ongoing friendship with the show [09:48, throughout]

Important Timestamps

• Introduction and guest re-introduction: [04:46]
• Recap of the H.L. Hunley: [05:33]
• Clive Cussler’s involvement: [07:01]
• Dr. Lance’s D-Day research explained: [09:10, 13:44]
• French/Normandy perspective on D-Day: [10:59–12:19]
• Mad science and JBS Haldane: [22:07, 30:26]
• The Thetis disaster & aftermath: [27:51]
• Secrecy/declassification of records: [23:27, 24:40]
• Early rebreather tech described: [45:47]
• Risks of submarining mentality: [40:04, 41:26]
• Memoir/Freak of a Feather plug: [42:38]
• Cliffhanger ending, Point du Hoc tangent: [50:03]

Tone & Style

• Conversational, with irreverence and frequent dark humor.
• Deeply researched but lively, featuring in-jokes and recurring themes of friendship, odd expertise, and “ridiculous” aspects of historical progress.
• Respectful of the risks and sacrifices made by those involved, balancing levity with gravitas.

To Be Continued…

The episode ends as a cliffhanger, promising a Part Two focused on the “main duo and the love story” at the heart of Dr. Lance’s Chamber Divers, and going even deeper (pun intended) into the personalities and humanity that changed the course of the war.

For more:

• Dr. Rachel Lance’s books: In the Waves and Chamber Divers
• Recommended memoir: Freak of a Feather by Kacy Tellison

End of Part One recap. See next episode for the continuation of this fascinating and absurd true story behind D-Day’s tiny submarines and the maverick scientists who made history possible.