What is SantaCon -- and Why Do So Many People Hate it?

Summary

Ridiculous History – Episode Summary
Podcast: Ridiculous History
Episode Title: What is SantaCon – and Why Do So Many People Hate It?
Hosts: Ben Bowlin & Noel Brown
Date: June 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode is a characteristically irreverent Ridiculous History deep dive into SantaCon, the infamous costumed holiday gathering that’s gone global—and become a source of annual public annoyance and controversy. Hosts Ben and Noel discuss SantaCon’s unlikely origins as a playful protest, its transformation into a raucous booze-fueled spectacle, its historic milestones, and the reasons why so many people, especially in cities like New York, loathe it. Along the way, they explore the blurred lines between silly fun, social commentary, and outright public nuisance, all with the show’s signature banter and comic asides.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. SantaCon’s Unseasonable Discussion

• The hosts acknowledge that this is a “Christmas episode in summer,” poking fun at their off-season timing and referencing the sketch “September Santa.”
  • “We are indeed doing a Christmas episode in summer. Yes, with bells on.” (Ben, 00:31)

2. Cultural Origins of the Modern Santa Image

• Brief mention of the pop culture and commercial creation of Santa (political cartoons, Coca Cola, Krampus, and the Yule Lads).
  • “Political cartoonists and the Coca Cola company created the image we associate with that magical elf today.” (Ben, 01:57)

3. SantaCon Origins

• SantaCon began in San Francisco in 1994, inspired by Danish performance art protests from the 1970s and the Cacophony Society.
  • “California, circa 1994... where SantaCon officially takes root, thanks to a guy named John Law and his buddies.” (Noel, 07:20)
  • The Danish group’s prank involved Santas handing out stolen items as “gifts,” meant as anti-corporate protest/performance art.
    • “They're basically shoplifting… An anti-corporate protest masquerading as sort of a flash mob.” (Noel, 08:20)
• SantaCon’s early years were small, anarchic, and deliberately absurd—originally called “Santarchy.”

4. National and Global Expansion – Early Innocence Turns Problematic

• By the late ’90s, events spread to Portland, Seattle, LA, and New York.
• The New York SantaCon (1998) was notably well-behaved and whimsical at first—costumed Santas made crowds smile, charmed police, and sparked a sense of “warm and fuzzy” community.
  • “People just want to feel warm and fuzzy and they just want to join together.” (John Law, paraphrased by Noel, 22:25)
• Memorable moment:
  • “The Santas wandered into Central Park, yelled ‘Merry Christmas’ to the ice skaters, and the skaters cheered back. It was just, you know, a lovely moment.” (Noel, 18:05)

5. The Shift—From Protest to Public Party Hazard

• As SantaCon spread, the event lost its protest roots and became an excuse for rowdy mass partying with heavy drinking and drug use.
  • “It morphed into less of an anti consumerism thing and more into like a frat energy, booze and drug focused public party.” (Ben, 24:07)
• Public urination, vomiting, vandalism, groping, and general debauchery increasingly became annual features, especially in New York.
• Locals and authorities began to brace for (or hide from) the event each year.
  • “People in New York… had taken to hiding indoors, to literally quarantining themselves until the madness was over.” (Ben, 24:41)
  • “Bodily fluids being key. Lot of instances of public urination. People, you know, vomiting in the streets, groping women, just absolute... debauchery.” (Noel, 29:01–30:21)
• Community backlash ensued—flyers and warnings circulated, and the NYPD asked venues to limit serving Santas.

6. SantaCon’s Global Reach and Ongoing Controversy

• Now in over 44 countries in cities like London, Moscow, Vancouver, and Atlanta, with similar issues cropping up globally.
• “As it grows… more Santas equals more problems.” (Ben, 23:02)
• The event’s decentralized, leaderless model means consistent chaos.
• The hosts draw parallels to other “amateur hour” festivities—St. Patrick’s Day, New Year’s Eve, etc.

7. Charity Claims and Recent Scandal

• Modern SantaCons are often advertised as charitable, but accusations of financial impropriety have marred this aspect.
• In May 2026, organizer Stefan Pildes (New York) was arrested for allegedly embezzling hundreds of thousands of dollars in supposed “charity” proceeds.
  • “[He] repeatedly said, all the proceeds... go to charity… But it turns out the courts don't think that is true. The guy took some extravagant vacations.” (Ben, 39:01)
  • “We may have buried the lead on that… Most of these SantaCon gatherings are marketed as being for charity. Which adds a whole nother kind of layer of kind of grossness…” (Noel, 38:35)

8. Philosophical Reflection & The Future of SantaCon

• The original creators have grown distant and disillusioned with the “bastardization” of their prankish idea.
  • “The creators were increasingly frustrated with this kind of bastardization of their original idea.” (Noel, 35:19)
• Filmmaker Seth Porges, creator of the 2025 documentary SantaCon, suggests accepting the way traditions inevitably evolve—even if the current SantaCon isn’t for its original audience anymore.
  • “For me, the big takeaway… the owners have just accepted… it’s okay that it isn’t for them anymore.” (Ben, 41:05)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Krampus as the Sith Lord to Santa's Jedi:
  • “We talked about Krampus, who I like to think of as the Sith lord to Santa's Jedi.” (Ben, 02:18)
• On the spectacle, nostalgia, and mayhem of the event:
  • “Santa's jolly, but he's not drunk… He's got to be sharp. He's got to be locked in.” (Noel, 31:36)
• On the inevitability of tradition decay:
  • “One person's fun hang may be another person's actual crime.” (Ben, 36:02)
• On the sentimental root of the phenomenon:
  • “People just want to feel warm and fuzzy and they just want to join together.” (John Law, paraphrased, 22:25)
• On charity skepticism:
  • “Just be aware when you donate to something and it says a portion of the proceeds go to charity.” (Ben, 40:13)
  • “Trust but verify.” (Noel, 40:14)
• On accepting SantaCon’s evolution:
  • “Rather than allowing themselves to be upset and angry that their creation has changed so much, the owners have just accepted the facts that it's okay that it isn't for them anymore.” (Ben, 41:05)
• On the difference between debauchery and chicanery:
  • “Chicanery… is not what these Santas are doing at all… It is utter debauchery and a bacchanalian fiasco in those streets.” (Noel, 30:21)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Background & Origin Stories: 06:38 – 10:50
• San Francisco Early SantaCons & Expansion: 13:00 – 15:45
• SantaCon’s Wholesome Early New York Days: 16:46 – 19:00
• Turning Point: From Prank to Rowdy Party: 24:07 – 29:00
• Public Backlash & Notoriety in NYC: 29:00 – 32:00
• Philosophical Thoughts on Rituals & Evolution: 41:05 – 42:10
• Financial Scandal: 37:54 – 40:13

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Overall Tone & Final Takeaways

Ben and Noel bring the usual combination of playful mockery, pop culture references, and true affection for weird history. There’s a thread of nostalgia, disappointment, and knowing eye-rolls running beneath as they chronicle the shift from absurdist culture jamming to noisy nuisance—always reminding listeners that all traditions, no matter how silly, eventually become what their participants make of them.

The episode ends on a philosophical note about letting go—accepting that you may not recognize (or like) what your beloved tradition becomes, but the world moves on.

Final word:
“Maybe being silly and stupid isn’t that bad after all.” (Ben, 41:51)

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This summary captures the arc and spirit of the episode, major topics discussed, and the Ridiculous History hosts’ distinctive mix of irreverent humor and genuine curiosity.

Transcript

[A]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartradio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians.

[B]

Ho ho, ho ho ho.

[A]

Thank you so, so much as always for tuning in. We are back. And in ridiculous typical history fashion, we are indeed doing a Christmas episode in summer. Yes, with bells on with Yuletide Christmas in June. That is none other than our own super producer, Max the Freight Train Williams.

[B]

I think we might even be a month early for an unseasonable Christmas discussion. Wouldn't that typically be Christmas in July? Yeah, that would be the cliche. Boy, oh boy, we just can't get it right. But we're going to get it right. At least in the 60s.

[C]

We released the leap year episode on the leap year.

[B]

Oh, that's true.

[A]

Hey, guys, we've won. Hey guys. We are just ahead of the curve.

[B]

Okay. Love it.

[A]

That's what we'll say instead of this

[B]

is what they in the industry call a tentpole episode. Ben, I think I've talked on the podcast, definitely off mic with you, about my recent rediscovery of the birthday boys, the sketch comedy show. They do a sketch called September Santa where Santa Claus comes through the window during September and instead of saying ho ho ho, he says, hoo hoo hoo, it's September Santa. And he gives everyone a pencil and it's really underwhelming. And that's sort of the joke.

[A]

And that is Noel Brown hip Ben

[B]

Bullen, your very own September Santa.

[A]

We are talking Santa Claus. Chris, if you're listening, we're big fans. We've talked in the past about how political cartoonists and the Coca Cola company created the image we associate with that magical elf today.

[B]

Hell, we talked about it in our recent discussion of New Coke.

[A]

We sure did. You can't get away from it. You've probably also heard our explorations of Krampus, who I like to think of as the Sith lord to Santa's Jedi,

[B]

because I like to over pronounce it Krampus. Because I was once, as you know, a small German boy.

[A]

We talked about the Yuletide Lads, a rogues gallery of mischief making scamps with sausage swiper.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With extremely weird action oriented names.

[B]

Very strange. You know, it would be sick, Ben, to get an action figure set of the Yule lads, each with their own, you know, articulatable move. Like, what is it? Meat hook something. Liquor sniffer?

[A]

Window licker.

[B]

Window licker's an Aphex twin song.

[A]

One of the things. So maybe, maybe that, maybe, maybe that doll's head opens and it has a big tongue that flicks up and down.

[B]

I just real. You know who else has a big tongue that flicks up and down is Krampus. But I just realized, Ben, that the Aphex Twin song Window Licker may well be a reference to the Yule lads. But we're talking weird fetishization of Santa Claus today.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Think if you had like a furry con, a furry convention, or one of those kind of swinger festivals, but everyone dressed up as Santa Claus. And look, this is not me throwing the furry community under the bus. I know it's not all about weird hotel sex. I know there's a lot of layers to the furry life. But SantaCon man, weirdly horny and drunk.

[D]

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human. This is Jenny Garth from I Choose Me with Jennie Garth. History is full of mysteries, like how people ever survive before modern laundry detergent. Luckily, Tides here with boosted stain fighting for cleaner, whiter, brighter and fresher laundry versus Tide. Simply no wonder it was America's number one detergent in sales last year. If it's gotta be clean, it's got to be Tide. Tide is a proud sponsor of the Elton John Impact Awards, honoring those who have helped shape a more inclusive and compassionate world with their artistry, advocacy, and unwavering commitment to equality. You won't want to miss the Elton John Impact Awards podcast, available on June 1st on the iHeartRadio app. And everywhere podcasts are heard, I turned off news altogether.

[A]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.

[B]

It's the rage bait.

[A]

It feels like it's trying to divide people. We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little.

[E]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.

[F]

What's up, y'?

[B]

All?

[F]

Summer's got a different tempo. Everything's a little looser, brighter. One plan turns into another. You hear something, you stay a little longer. Next thing you know, you're somewhere you didn't plan to be. It's those in between moments. That's where the ideas hit. Conversations stretch out. Little memories sneak up on you. And sometimes it's just about what's in your hand. That color, that chill. The new Tropical Butterfly refresher from Starbucks. Guava and passion fruit flavors with mango pineapple flavored pearls. Yeah, that feels like summer before you even taste it. Funny how one small stop becomes the best part of the day. Start your summer rhythm with Starbucks. Try the new Tropical Butterfly refresher from Starbucks.

[B]

This episode of Ridiculous History is brought to you by Grainger.

[A]

This is the story of the 1.

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[A]

Yeah, folks, we're coming to you live from the United States of America. A pretty popular experiment for a few centuries. This country in particular has conventions and parties and gatherings for darn near everything. Santa Claus is no exception. As Knowles said, We're talking SantaCon. Its high notes, its history, its controversy, and perhaps most ridiculously, why some people are gonna tell you it's the worst thing ever, I don't know. Noel, can you take us to California in 1994?

[B]

I would love to, Ben. California, circa 1994. One of my very favorite eras. So join us when santacon officially takes root. Thanks to a guy named John Law and his buddies Rob Schmidt and Chris Radcliff. This sort of the modern version of the con as we know it. However, its inspiration or these lads inspiration dates even farther back to the 1970s when a Danish theater group known as Solvagnen decided to get a little. A little tricksy and hatch a prank.

[A]

Yeah, so they had dozens of actors in their crew dress as Santa in Copenhagen and these. Ooh, I have it wrong in the notes. I have these Satans. It's these Santas stand around this department store, they grab items off the shelf and then they hand them to unsuspecting innocent customers as Christmas presents.

[B]

This is anarchy personified, Ben. They're basically shoplifting. They're stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. Sort of, kind of. It's a bit of performance art, right? An anti corporate protest masquerading as sort of a flash mob slash bit of performance art.

[A]

Yeah, Improv everywhere style. Right? So the folks that we just mentioned there a second ago, they are inspired by an article they read in Mother Jones about this group and this prank squad called the Cacophony society. They launch SantaCon. Originally they called it Santarchy.

[B]

Right? Like I was saying earlier, total anarchy. Chaos. I gotta love you gotta love that. And they know how to get up to some shenanigans in Copenhagen. So in the first year, 34 folks participated in this event wearing Santa suits, marching through the streets of the Golden Gate City, AKA San Francisco. Don't call it San Fran. The locals will make fun of you.

[A]

They crash in Hotlanta.

[B]

Oh, boy. You know what? Isn't it funny though, Ben, that no matter how cool people are that we hang with, they always think that we'll think that that's funny or cool. I'm always blown away. We're hanging with like very in the know people and they always say hot Lana to us, as if that's supposed to like, you know, be cute, but it's.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's okay.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. But it's kind of like some. It's kind of like an American who goes to Dublin and expects everybody to be amazed that their grandparents were Irish.

[B]

Yeah, or orders an Irish Car Bomb.

[A]

Oof. No. Gosh. That's one to grow on, folks. Don't do it.

[B]

No, definitely don't do it. If anyone doesn't know what that is, that is actually a pretty popular used to be drink here in the States, where I think it is a shot of Bailey's dropped into Bailey's and Irish Irish whiskey.

[C]

So it's half Bailey's, half Irish whiskey. So like a Jameson or a Tola Merdu, you drop it into like a half.

[B]

Half pint of half pint and it's actually pretty good. But very offensively named.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[C]

Tastes like chocolate milk, but yeah, incredibly offensive.

[A]

Well, you see, folks, Max, Noel and I used to be cool. We used to party. We were never.

[B]

I'm cooler now that I don't party.

[C]

I am definitely cooler now that I now that I don't party. But I was never cool.

[A]

All right, well, check out our earlier.

[C]

Except for when Noah and I were in the hot tub together.

[B]

Oh, boy. The hot tub times. Max, take me back to the hot tub times.

[C]

We can do it again, buddy. You bring Ben this time too.

[B]

I think it's time. I think.

[A]

Hard pass.

[B]

Come on, man.

[C]

Matt and his partner and I were in a hot tub together just recently.

[B]

Well, dang. Now I feel left out.

[C]

You were there. You just went off and did your own thing at Baja Mar.

[B]

That's true. I wasn't invited to the hot tub party.

[A]

And we were not dressed as Santa. I was definitely not invited either. Noel, don't feel bad.

[C]

You were invited too. All y' all were invited.

[B]

I think the invitation was implied. All are welcome in Max's hot tub parties.

[A]

And these folks, not Max and Noel, these folks who launched Santacon are trying to not create crime necessarily. They're crashing elite parties. Their co founder said they wanted to just shock people and put them into a different reality.

[B]

They're just out there rabble rousing up to some mischief, but all good clean fun. Like you said Ben, they weren't like doing vandalism or breaking and entering. So it was originally supposed to be kind of a mockery of how offensively consumerist Christmas ultimately became continues to to be. So there came this moment when the organizers realized that there might be something bigger going on here than just a one off kind of prank. The Cacophony Society decided they would restage the event the next year, at which point more than a hundred participants signed up. And then we started to see a handful of arrests as these Santas began to imbibe perhaps a little more openly.

[A]

Yeah, they got jolly on the streets is the way I put it. They're pretty soused Santas. And I had a side note on the research for this, you guys. Is San Francisco a Pepsi town or a Coca Cola town?

[B]

It's definitely a cocaine town.

[A]

Is that true?

[B]

Well, I mean back in these days it probably was certainly in the 60s, but that's a good question. Man. I don't really know. I tend to think of west coast as being more Coca Cola. I think of Pepsi as being more of a middle America thing. But honestly, I seem to recall seeing more Coke products. Let's see.

[A]

You'll have to let us know folks, this thing Anyway, it's called SantaCon from its original Bethlehem in San Francisco. It franchises out to Portland in 1996. Police meet the SantaCon fans and they suspect for some reason that these jolly revelers may be terrorist. So they hit them up with full on riot gear.

[B]

Oh boy. By the way, San Francisco is definitely a Coca Cola town. It would appear that most of the restaurants, stadiums and chain type establishments have contracts with Coke.

[A]

I love you guys.

[B]

For their fountain drinks.

[A]

I love you guys. Seafood soup to. What's it called? Ciopino, Something like that.

[B]

Like a chowder?

[A]

Yeah, it's like a tomato based.

[B]

Like a tomatoey chowder. Like a red clam chowder.

[C]

To jump in here as well. Oracle park, which used to be at and T Park, which is the giant stadium right on the bay, has a giant Coca Cola bottle advertisement in the outfield. I was actually, I got a suggestion from Reddit to find out which side of the argument you're on. Just whatever. So do they serve at your baseball stadium? That's who's winning the fight.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that would, that would be a pretty good. Pretty good canary in the soda coal mine.

[A]

And we've confirmed that Max Williams is on Reddit.

[C]

Was there ever any doubt that.

[B]

That one right there. I don't think so.

[A]

Yeah, we, we know that after 1996, the next year 1997, SantaCon expanded to Seattle. By 1998, it's in Los Angeles and New York. And at each of its expansion to your earlier point, Noel, it became less of a protest against consumerism and more an excuse for people to just cosplay and party.

[B]

There is something kind of funny. You see it in like comedies of the typically of the 80s where there'll be like some dude playing Santa at a, you know, what do you call it, like a department store or some kind of Christmas party and inevitably ends up getting wasted. There is just something about the image of the slovenly hobo Santa. Yes, for lack of a better term, that has kind of persevered. So I get what they were going for with this. However, it did seem to balloon a little bit out of control. The Village Voice had this to say when John Law decided to bring SantaCon to New York City in 1998, referring to as a situation where a San Franciscan strapped on a fake white beard, donned a $12 red suit and led 200 Santas as they went caroling up Fifth Avenue in Manhattan during their joyful uptown throngs of bustling New Yorkers and tourists paused to gawk at the sea of red felt and velour. A police officer yell, hey, Santa, can you get me a date with Cindy Crawford? And I'm walking here. It's so New York. I love it. So it seems like this guy was sort of charmed by it. It's a Village Voice being a bit of a, you know, snarky rag. So it doesn't seem like the ultimate implications had become clear yet of where this was heading in New York.

[A]

Yeah, initially it was just a fun thing for you to see in the city, right. And you would say, you know, hey, Santa, you're walking there. These folks weren't breaking stuff. They were strolling around public areas, they were climbing on public statues, they were singing loud Christmas songs. And ultimately they were just a bunch of red suited scamps. They had their velour and they would be part partying. I'm going to be honest, I think they were probably using drugs. Not to sound too much like a square, but they were peaceful. So whenever local security came up to them and said, hey, guys, you're all dressed like Santa and you're all clearly not able to drive.

[B]

It was probably the kindly Irish cop that said, move it along, fellas, move it along.

[A]

They complied, and the Santa said, ho, ho, we'll go. They left. It was pretty wholesome. It seemed like everyone, even unto the police and the security guards to your earlier point, was having a bit of fun with it. One of the coolest examples of this comes from John Law himself.

[B]

Yeah, Johnny Law himself recalled a particular moment of inspiration where the Santas wandered in their throng into Central park, where they found a crowd of ice skaters reveling on a frozen pond. The Santas yelled at them, merry Christmas. And the skaters screamed back cheers of appreciation and, you know, jubilance. It was just, you know, a lovely moment. They were appreciated.

[A]

This was a really cool moment for John Law. He says that he hated Christmas ever since he was 9 years old and learned that everybody spoilers. 3, 2, 1. If you are under 9 years old, turn off the podcast now. 3, 2, 1. He learned that Santa is not real.

[B]

And he's real if you believe he's real in your heart.

[A]

Sure, there are probably 200 of them getting drunk later this year.

[C]

Very real,

[A]

he says. Later, I almost started crying. I stopped hating Christmas then. That was the beginning of my existential life. I thought Christmas was baloney and everything we're told is a lie. All the company are just trying to sell you stuff.

[B]

Oh, they say that Johnny Law's heart grew three sizes that day. This is some real Grinch who stole Christmas catharsis here.

[D]

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[A]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.

[B]

It's the rage bait.

[A]

It feels like it's trying to divide people. We got clear facts. Maybe we can calm down a little.

[E]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.

[G]

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[H]

Are you really buying a car online on autotrader right now?

[D]

Really?

[H]

At a playground?

[D]

Yeah, really? Look at these listings from dealers.

[H]

Wow, your search can really get that specific.

[D]

Really?

[H]

And you just put in your info and boom. Cars. And your bus mom needs a second, honey. You can really have it delivered.

[D]

Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership.

[H]

One sec, sweetie.

[D]

Mommy's buying a car.

[H]

Mommy, I think your kid is walking up the slide.

[B]

Kyle.

[A]

Again? Really?

[G]

Autotrader.

[D]

Buy your car online? Really?

[B]

That's when Law really truly felt the power of Christmas as a symbol. And he realized, and this is in his words, people just want to feel warm and fuzzy and they just want to join together.

[A]

Beautiful.

[B]

I couldn't agree more. Beautiful. If there's anything I like about Christmas, it is that very aspect. And I'm not, like, super against the commercialism of it. You know, whatever. I'm a bit of a shopper, but I do enjoy the decorations, especially in a place like New York where there feels like there's magic in the air. I'm a sucker for that. And it's mainly because of the things that he's describing here. That kind of community quality.

[A]

Dude, Asia does Christmas amazing. It's bonkers. And if you get a chance to check out a Christmas Market in Europe. Please do. It's just fascinating. And Santacon, I think we can make an argument. Santacon is not inherently a bad thing. But as it grows, as it becomes a franchise and a global tradition, we see more Santas equal more problems. It's currently spread to 44 different countries across the planet. And we talked about the metropoles, like New York, London, also Vancouver, Belfast, Moscow.

[B]

They do it in our humble metropolis of Atlanta.

[A]

Yes, yes. And I'm gonna be honest with everybody. I actually avoid it.

[B]

Well, it's much maligned if you haven't gotten the hint of where it's heading. It has become quite the problematic event.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. After that first trip to the Big Apple, John Law was thinking, we should just pull the plug on this thing. But it was too late. It already caught fire. Right. And it took on a life of its own. It morphed into less of an anti consumerism thing and more into like a frat energy, booze and drug focused public party.

[B]

Yeah, it's true. It's basically just an excuse to cause trouble and get wasted in public.

[A]

Yeah. And this is where we see some of the earliest controversy, because people in New York and people in other cities where this becomes a regular event had taken to hiding indoors, to literally quarantining themselves until the madness was over. There's a great quote from the New York Times writing about this in 2013, and they say it's a holiday that actual New Yorkers hate.

[B]

Well, that's true, Ben. And I actually witnessed some of this myself by accident a couple months ago when I found myself in Midtown Manhattan during St. Patrick's Day. And I was just like, goodness, this is like Mardi Gras here. It really, really was. New Yorkers have long endured other people's celebrations on St Patrick's Day. They know to stay out of the pubs in midtown if they do not want to be overwhelmed in a sea of semi conscious green. So these kind of like public drunken revelry type events are already wearing thin on people's patience there.

[A]

Did I hear New York? Yeah. Did I ever tell you guys about the time I accidentally ended up in Savannah, Georgia, during St. Patrick's Day? It was not my best adventure.

[B]

People really love St. Patrick's Day in Savannah as well. And it's apparently quite the show. I often hear of things like this being referred to as amateur hour.

[C]

Yes. Amateur nights.

[A]

Yeah. I was on river street and a fight broke out at this restaurant that was basically a bar at that point. And a guy pulled a knife and then yelled something about St Patrick and then walked outside and the cops got him. It was a very strange occasion.

[B]

I was hoping there was going to be a rumble.

[A]

Well, there were a lot of flying stools. But anyway, as we're saying in New York Times, the quote continues, they being the New Yorkers, avoid driving into Manhattan at all costs during the Puerto Rican Day parade because it turns the heart of the borough into a vast parking lot. Fashion's night out is an occasion to stay in if you live in Soho and New Year's Eve, to our earlier point. Guys, amateur hour.

[B]

Yeah, there it is.

[A]

Yeah. Unless an out of town visitor drags a native kicking and screaming into Times

[B]

Square, I won't even watch it on tv. It's triggering.

[A]

No, no, yeah, look, no judgment anywhere to anybody, but we think it's cool to use actual bathrooms instead of streets or diapers.

[B]

Well, we're gonna get to that because that definitely becomes a feature of Santa Claus. So now we've got a new contender emerging per the New York Times for the event that many New Yorkers most love to hate, and that is SantaCon. They note that it's really just become kind of a massive of pub crawl with no particular leadership. No sign in, no tickets issued, a secret route that isn't really revealed until the last minute to keep the, you know, the cops off the scent as well as something that you refer to here in the notes here as the anti santies, which may well be a contingent that's starting to emerge in New York.

[A]

Yeah. And in SantaCon's defense, they've always had two very simple rules. One, dress up, wear some kind of costume, and two, don't make kids cry. You know what I mean?

[B]

Imagine the typical. They're more often than not breaking the second rule if they're breaking any.

[A]

I think you're right, but I. Mommy, why is Santa.

[B]

Mom, what's coming out of Santa's nose, right?

[A]

Mom, why doesn't Santa wear pants? So despite, despite this wholesome beginning, SantaCon is getting a reputation problem. You would see local activism in New York especially, where people would print and distribute flyers in advance of SantaCon. And they would say stuff like, alcohol soaked Father Christmas themed flash mob not welcome here. Take your bodily fluids and public intoxicated altercation elsewhere.

[B]

For sure. Bodily fluids being key. Lot of instances of public urination. People, you know, vomiting in the streets, groping women, just absolute.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

I think I used this word recently. Chicanery. Chicanery, Ben.

[A]

Yeah, chicanery, Noel, for sure. I mean, Police in Hell's Kitchen, which was still kind of a tough neighborhood at the time, they would send letters to people who owned restaurants, some bars, and they would say, please, look, if someone's dressed as Santa and you know they've had enough to drink, don't over serve them. One guy. We got to shout out. A police lieutenant at the time, John Kochi, said, having thousands of intoxicated partygoers roam the streets, urinating, littering, vomiting, and vandalizing will not be tolerated in our neighborhood. I just love. I. I can't escape it. I know why people have a problem with it, but, guys, I cannot escape the concept of how epic this would be as a movie that takes place one night and there's someone who gets roped into SantaCon.

[B]

That'd be interesting. I could see that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sort of bad Santa. We already have that, but that's not quite the same. It has to be en masse, and it has to be just like a fly on the wall that gets sort of absorbed into the Santa hive. And really quickly, I'd like to walk back my use case. Chicanery. The word I was actually looking for was debauchery. Chicanery is a great word, but it more refers to the use of clever tricks and subterfuge in order to manipulate folks to their own ends, which is not what these Santas are doing at all, because they don't have their wits about them. It is utter debauchery and a bacchanalian fiasco in those streets.

[A]

Agreed. Great note. They are debauched for sure. And locals, like, imagine you live in one of the neighborhoods, and that gets absolutely rollicked by Santa Cod. You're a local. You're probably worried about your children. If you have them, you probably want to stay inside. And you know full well that no matter what the organizers say, they have no control over the participants who will be peeing in the streets, littering, puking, as she said, groping people. There were arrests every single year. And what is, you know, fundamentally problematic about this is it's not Santa behavior. It's not canon.

[B]

No. Santa's jolly, but he's not drunk. I mean, I'm sure he loves a sip of schnapps, you know, along with the best of them. But, like, the guy, he keeps his wits about him. Think of all he has to accomplish in such a short amount of time. He's got to be sharp. He's got to be locked in.

[A]

Yeah. In the Marvel universe, he's officially an omega level mutant. Mutant which is the highest level of mutant. I'm fun at parties.

[B]

No, no, I see that.

[A]

But not at SantaCon, because I've never been. I don't have plans to go.

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[A]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.

[B]

It's the rage bait.

[A]

It feels like it's trying to divide people. We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little.

[E]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from from there. NBC News, reporting for America, this is

[G]

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[D]

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[H]

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[G]

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[H]

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[G]

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[A]

One of the co creators later said, look, the original SantaCon was awesome. You see somebody wake up from this zombie like thing into. Beat me here, Max. Holy. There's something going on around here that I can't account for it. The original SantaCon created a sense of wonder. They were being silly and stupid, and I think that's where things went wrong.

[B]

Well, that's right, because we started to see the lines being blurred where when alcohol gets added to the equation, it's real easy for things to go from good, clean fun to, you know, crime doing crimes. The creators were increasingly frustrated with this kind of bastardization of their original idea, which was more about kind of sticking it to the man and the theater of the absurd. And essentially it had become just an excuse used to drink in public for public intoxication and bad behavior. So they more or less began to distance themselves from it. However, the adventure still continued because as we know, sometimes when things take on a life of their own, the original creator's intent no longer really matters.

[A]

Yeah. Which is perhaps the greatest crime of all. One person's fun hang may be another person's actual crime. And as you're saying, Noel, the adventures continue. SantaCon's reputation worsens over time. The organizers typically remained anonymous, but they were doing their best to tamp down the outcry from the public and the chaos from the participants. If we fast forward a little bit, then we get to 2025, where we see a phenomenal documentary called SantaCon.

[B]

Yeah, in a burst of creativity, I would say, Ben. But you know what? It gets the job done. We know what it's about. So this guy, Seth Porges, who is the creator of the film, sums up the problem of pranks versus problematic behaviors pretty elegantly when he had this to say. Random absurdism, as we were mentioning before, was the point. But within the random absurdism, we all can put our own message into it, our own interpretation, our own feelings about this thing and unearth something within all of us. I think the implication here is that some of the things that get unearthed are kind of dark.

[A]

Yeah, cue someone saying, this is why we can't have nice things. Max, can we get you to say that on air so we can use it as a meme later?

[C]

This is why we can't have nice things.

[A]

Phenomenal. Step aside, Shakespeare. That's Max Williams. Can we do Max with the Facts.

[B]

Oh, we must. Who's that sneaking in the phone? It's Max, and he's full enough knowledge just for you right now. Here it comes. It's Max with the facts.

[C]

I mean, that's gonna be the second one in this episode already.

[B]

Well, then, definitely not.

[A]

We have time for one more recent controversy. SantaCon haters, and there are many, were thrilled as heck by the newest Kris Kringle scandal. It occurred just last month as we are recording here at the end of May. Courtesy of the Guardian. This comes to us. Stefan Pildes, P I, L, D, E, S, not sure how to pronounce the last name, is the organizer of SantaCon in New York City. Got arrested, Noel, for allegedly using hundreds of thousands of dollars from charity donations for himself.

[B]

We may have buried the lead on that just ever so slightly because I think Most of these SantaCon gatherings are marketed as being for charity.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which adds a whole nother kind of layer of kind of grossness to them when you consider what they end up becoming. But now we have absolute confirmation that, yeah, something's definitely rotten in the North Pole.

[A]

I like that, man. At least in one.

[B]

I was just sticking with your Shakespeare theme.

[A]

Oh, no, I love it, man. I think it's perfect. This guy repeatedly said, all the proceeds, like you were saying, Noel, go to charity. I don't get any money from SantaCon or anything related to it. No producer receives any income from this event. But it turns out the courts don't think that is true. The guy took some extravagant vacations. He went to some really nice places, and SantaCon Events generated something like $2.7 million from 20 to 2024.

[B]

And that'll buy you a lot of milk and cookies.

[A]

I'll get your schnapps as well, I imagine. Keep you in velour. The federal prosecutors, I should say, alleged that this individual took the money and donated only a small fraction of it to charity. Which is why we all have to remember to be very. I'm not going to say cynical, but, folks, just be aware when you donate to something and it says a portion of the proceeds go to charity.

[B]

Trust but verify.

[A]

Trust but verify. Shout out to Ronnie, this is who. Ronald Reagan.

[B]

Oh, yes, of course, of course, Ron. Well, yes.

[A]

Oh, yes, Ron. Well, perfect. There you have it, folks. This is the story of SantaCon so far. It might sound ridiculous for a bunch of people to dress up like characters from folklore and then party, but I at least have to be very transparent and glass house about this because I went to Renaissance Fair or Renaissance Festival and had an amazing time. And you guys should be.

[B]

It's a great hang, you know? And where would we be without events involving dressing up in funny costumes, giving, you know, praise to some unseen spiritual force, and, you know, getting totally wasted?

[A]

Mm. Yeah.

[B]

That's basically what religion is.

[A]

Well, what happens next to SantaCon? Will it become a religion? Will it be a historical footnote? Before we end, we gotta give the last word to our phenomenal documentarian we mentioned earlier. Our filmmaker says everything changes. For me, the big takeaway from the movie is how, rather than allowing themselves to be upset and angry that their creation has changed so much, the owners have just accepted the facts that it's okay that it isn't for them anymore. And side note, our documentarian here, he originally wanted to make a hit piece on SantaCon, and then he fell in love with it over the course of filming, and he said, hey, maybe being silly and stupid isn't that bad after all.

[B]

Yeah, I don't think we're saying that it's bad that being silly and stupid is bad, but I think we do perhaps come down on the slightly more negative side when it comes to just absolute public intoxication and just acting like a, you know, a bit of a

[A]

chill, like a pill. I'm just so worried about the kids.

[B]

Yeah, think of the kids.

[A]

That's. Seriously.

[B]

This is how you want them to find out?

[A]

This is how you want them to find out? We can't wait to hear your thought. Shout out to all the Santa fans in the crowd. I'm saying it like it's one word.

[B]

Or the anti Santi contingent that is out there trying to, you know, fight. Fight crime. What if the. The Santacon folks actually, like, banded together and became, like, the Foot Clan or something like that?

[A]

That'd be cool.

[B]

That'd be pretty cool. And then you had the anti Santi contingent out there, you know, trying to put a stop to their divisive shenanigans.

[A]

The phrase anti sanity is clearly gonna be stuck in both of our heads for the rest.

[B]

That's true, Ben, and I blame you. No, you know what? I credit you.

[A]

Well, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. We've got to also credit our super producer, Max the Freight Train Williams. Max, when did you learn that Santa Claus is kind of a conspiracy?

[C]

About 20 minutes ago.

[B]

This is how you find out. Disappointing. I just remember finding a skateboard in my parents closet, and I knew something was amiss. And that was last week, too.

[C]

Now I have an evil older brother. So, Alex, as soon as Alex found out that Santa wasn't real, he made sure I knew that Santa wasn't real.

[A]

Shout out to our composer. By the way of Segways there, Alex Williams. He made this slap and bop you're hearing at the end.

[B]

Christopher Osiotis, Nev Jeffcoat here in spirit, Jonathan Strickland, the quizzter, AJ Bahamas Jacobs,

[A]

the puzzler, Dr. Rachel Big Spinach Lance, as well as the rude dudes of Ridiculous Crime. If you dig us, you will love them. So hi thee to thy favorite podcast platform of choice and and we're gonna end this episode with some Friday energy. Noel, I've gotta look up Santa costumes. Let's see, they can't be that expensive now, right? Right.

[B]

No, they're $12. We said so earlier.

[A]

Maybe it's.

[B]

But with, you know, accounting for inflation, maybe they're a little more now. It depends on the quality.

[A]

You're right.

[B]

The price of velour could well have taken a spike along with the price of gas.

[A]

Updates to continue.

[B]

We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[G]

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