Queer

Summary

RISK! Podcast – “Queer” (September 18, 2025)

Overview

This special episode of RISK!, hosted by Kevin Allison, is a deep dive into personal true stories from the LGBTQ+ community. Originally aired as a Pride tribute in July 2013, this episode (“Queer”) features three uncensored, candid stories exploring queer identity, family, sex, and self-acceptance. Each storyteller offers raw insights into the multi-layered reality of queerness, traversing painful pasts, raucous sexual awakening, and emotional reckonings, all wrapped in the signature RISK! blend of humor and vulnerability.

Episode Structure

1. Opening/Theme Setting ([03:24])
2. Story 1: “All the Rage” by Kevin Allison ([05:17] – [18:44])
3. Story 2: Fire Island and Genderqueerness by Chris Grey ([18:47] – [35:36])
4. Story 3: “Come Together” by Cameron Esposito ([39:29] – [57:42])
5. Musical Interludes, Reflections, and Closing Moments ([36:15], [39:29], [58:24] to end)

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Opening & Main Theme ([03:24])

• Kevin Allison introduces the “Queer” episode as the first to feature only LGBTQ+ stories.
• Emphasizes that sexuality is “such an infinitely vast effector of so many different kinds of experiences in our lives.”
• Sets the tone for a tapestry of queer experiences post-Pride Month.

“I think that the three stories that we have for this episode really show the spectrum… sexuality is just such an infinitely vast effector of so many different kinds of experiences in our lives.”
— Kevin Allison ([03:35])

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Story 1: “All the Rage” – Kevin Allison ([05:17] – [18:44])

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Raw Vulnerability: Kevin tells a raw and emotional story from that very afternoon—his most recent, real-time experience with homophobic harassment escalating to violence.
• Chronic Harassment: Recounts a series of verbal attacks from a stranger in his Bushwick neighborhood, culminating in being physically assaulted.
• Impact of Trauma: Shares how the harassment triggered childhood shame and fear—from understanding slurs directed at him as a five-year-old to the lasting imprints of feeling hated and unsafe.
• Systemic and Community Support: The police were initially unable to help, but persistence and community connections led to hate crime detectives finally intervening and a restraining order being issued.
• Finding Meaning in Storytelling: Kevin models storytelling as a path to self-understanding, healing, and communal solidarity.

Notable Quotes

“My story is going to be especially raw tonight. And when I say raw, I don’t mean my usual kind of raw, like kinky raw. I mean raw as in brand new. Because it happened at 2:30…”
— Kevin Allison ([05:17])

“When I was five years old… I now know what the words fag and gay mean… I know those words mean me… inside, I am disgusting. I am deformed. I am something that people passionately hate.”
— Kevin Allison ([08:11])

“That is Frank Rodriguez… and I now have a restraining order against him… this little trajectory I’ve been living through… came to about the best place it possibly could get at about 2:30 this afternoon.”
— Kevin Allison ([16:30])

Memorable Moment

The tension-filled moment where, after months of fear, Kevin and the detectives finally spot the harasser and confront him, bringing a sense of closure and safety.

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Story 2: Fire Island and Genderqueerness – Chris Grey ([18:47] – [35:36])

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Immersion into Gay Spaces: Chris, a genderqueer artist, receives an art residency on Fire Island—a famed gay male enclave—and is filled with anticipatory anxiety about fitting in as a trans person.
• Family Layers of Coming Out: Chris shares the layered experiences of coming out: first as a lesbian woman, then as transgender, genderqueer, polyamorous, and kinky. Each new identity challenges family members and provokes reflection.
• Gay Male Culture & Gendered Exclusions: Working in gay bars, Chris internalizes that so much of gay male culture is phallocentric (“dick, dick, dick, dick…”) and learns firsthand how femininity or difference is policed or rejected.
• Intersection of Desire, Body, and Identity: Chris candidly discusses being “cruised” and rejected when their voice betrayed a feminine origin, and the anxiety surrounding body difference (“navigating Fire Island as a cunted creature”).
• Challenging Gender Binaries: Critiques simplistic male/female binaries, advocating for a recognition of body and gender diversity.
• Sexual Encounters & Surprises: Shares powerful, humorous stories, including:
  • The “Whip It Out Wednesdays” penis-discount bar event where Chris, in lieu of a penis, pulls out a prosthetic “packer” and eventually their actual genitals, which are received with laughter and acceptance.
  • Attending an underwear party, experiencing sexual attention as a transmasculine person, and the thrill of being directly desired.
• Personal Growth: Chris ends by embracing surprise, noting how experience on Fire Island helped dissolve old assumptions about both gay men and their own desires.

Notable Quotes

“Gay guys, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick. Like, everything is about dick. It's about the dick that they saw. It's about their dick. It's about where they're gonna put their dick…”
— Chris Grey ([22:17])

“Good luck getting laid there, because you’re all holes and no poles.”
— Chris Grey’s friend ([25:34])

“It’s sort of like the difference between being turned on in spite of and being turned on because of.”
— Chris Grey ([33:10])

Memorable Moment

Chris’s first night at an underwear party, when all their fears of rejection are upended by a handsome stranger whose response to Chris’s trans identity is, “That’s awesome… I like boys like you. Boner.” They respond:

“What could be better than hearing that? Like, I like boys like you. I was like, I would like to suck your cock.”
— Chris Grey ([33:30])

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Reflections from Kevin Allison ([36:15])

• Kevin reflects on listener stories dealing with sexual and relational “idiosyncrasies,” reinforcing the value of storytelling in breaking down expectations and narrating the full spectrum of queer experience.

“When you ask to hear people's stories, you'll see that, you know, no one is entirely this label or entirely that label. Everyone has odd idiosyncrasies in their sexual practices and preferences and bodies, and everyone has insecurities about it. But when we open up and share, we do discover new ways to deal with it all together.”
— Kevin Allison ([37:12])

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Story 3: “Come Together” – Cameron Esposito ([39:29] – [57:42])

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• DOMA & Emotional Aftershocks: Cameron begins by sharing the deeply emotional impact of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) being struck down, describing the day with her girlfriend and their instinct to drive to West Hollywood to celebrate.
• Family Acceptance and Rejection: Cameron reads a personal essay about her family, especially her father, and their journey toward acceptance.
• Coming Out & Gender Nonconformity: Reveals being a “little gay kid who had no idea what gay meant” in a Catholic Chicago family and the confusion of gender expectations. Reminisces about joy at expressing masculinity (as Charlie Chaplin for Halloween, and at a school dance wearing her boyfriend’s football uniform).
• Struggles with Family: Details her father’s long struggle to accept her sexuality—he cried for five years after she came out—and his initial belief that “if you’re gay, I could never support you adopting a child.”
• Building Chosen & Biological Family: Parallels her own “coming out” with her father’s journey to meet his biological brothers after being adopted, emphasizing finding belonging through chosen and biological family alike.
• Resolution & Hope: The essay culminates in familial healing—a wedding to her girlfriend within sight, her father supporting her rights, and the importance of familial love.

Notable Quotes

“I was a little gay kid who had no idea what gay meant. Growing up in a very Catholic family in the suburbs of Chicago, I had no reference point. No one I knew was gay. No one.”
— Cameron Esposito ([40:43])

“I came out to my dad passively… He was upset. He was worried… about my ruining my life by being gay. ‘You’ll never have kids,’ he said. ‘I could adopt,’ I said.”
— Cameron Esposito ([44:19])

“We came out together, my dad and I, we found new family, and that strengthened our existing family… My lawful, affirming, honest wedding, where my dad will sing. It’s very fucking awesome.”
— Cameron Esposito ([53:30])

Memorable Moments

• The school dance where Cameron gets to be her boyfriend for one night:

  “He wore nylons and a wig, and I wore his football uniform. It was my favorite dance… because for the night I got to be my boyfriend.”

• Her dad emailing “50 guys he went to high school with” to celebrate the DOMA decision, paralleling her own coming out:

  “He came out also. Yeah, it’s great news.” ([55:30])

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Musical Interludes and Noteworthy Songs

Several musical breaks between stories (not full content sections), including Nicole Reynolds’s “Earthworms” ([36:15]) and Macklemore & Ryan Lewis’s “Same Love” ([58:24] onwards), reinforcing the themes of queer love, acceptance, and progress.

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Overall Tone, Language & Final Reflection

• The episode maintains the signature RISK! tone: unfiltered, alternately hilarious and heart-wrenching, accessible, and deeply personal.
• The storytellers bring their authentic voices, blending humor (often self-deprecating, always sharp) and vulnerability.

Final Words from Kevin Allison ([59:45])

“…once you start sharing about those sorts of things with your friends and lovers, you begin to see… sex doesn’t have to be about achieving an orgasm or even maintaining an erection or meeting any other expectation… everyone has odd idiosyncrasies… and everyone has insecurities about it. But when we open up and share, we do discover new ways to deal with it all together.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening/Host Intro: [03:24]
• Kevin Allison, “All the Rage”: [05:17] – [18:44]
• Chris Grey, Fire Island/Journey: [18:47] – [35:36]
• Musical/Host Reflection: [36:15] – [39:29]
• Cameron Esposito, “Come Together”: [39:29] – [57:42]
• Macklemore & Ryan Lewis, “Same Love”: [58:24] – [64:00]
• Closing Thoughts and Comedy Outro: [64:04]+

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For New Listeners

This episode is a dynamic snapshot of LGBTQ+ experience, illustrating both painful struggles and hard-won joys. The stories are frank, funny, moving, and above all, insistent on the value of unapologetically inhabiting one's own narrative. Whether you're in the LGBTQ+ community or an ally, this is a must-listen for anyone who values honest stories about family, desire, and surviving—and thriving—in a world that doesn’t always understand you.

Transcript

[Kristen Bell]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Kevin Allison]

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[Kevin Allison]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Kristen Bell]

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[Cameron Esposito]

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[Kevin Allison]

Hey folks, this is Risk, the show where people tell true stories they never thought they'd dare to share. I'm Kevin Allison and every Thursday we release these special episodes where we look back at content from our earlier years. This week, an episode that premiered in July of 2013. It's an episode we call Queer.

[Kristen Bell]

Wait.

[Kevin Allison]

Hello kids, this is Risk, the show where people tell true stories they never thought they'd dare to share. I'm Kevin Allison and this is the magnetic fields behind me now. We're calling today's episode Queer. It'll be the first time ever that we feature an episode only of stories from the LGBT community. We just made it through June, which was Pride month, and it was quite an eventful month for so many people in so many ways. I think that the three stories that we have for this episode really show the spectrum, the way that sexuality is just such an infinitely vast effector of so many different kinds of experiences in our lives. In a little bit, we're going to hear from the remarkable Chris Grey, also known as just Incredible. Chris really is an incredible person. A genderqueer artist and a multi talented one at that. But before that, we're going to hear a story from me. This was. This was kind of an impromptu story that I hadn't really been planning on telling that night at the Risk live show in New York. But you'll hear why in just a moment. We call this one all the Rage.

[Kristen Bell]

A pity she does not exist.

[Dax Shepard]

To shame. He's not a fag.

[Kristen Bell]

The only girl I ever loved was Andrew Dragged. There is no hope of love for me from here on I go stag. The only girl I'll ever love is.

[Kevin Allison]

Andrew And Drag and Reuben.

[Kristen Bell]

Drag and Reuben. Drag and Reuben. Drag.

[Kevin Allison]

My story is going to be especially raw tonight. And when I say raw, I don't mean my usual kind of raw, like kinky raw. I mean raw as in brand new. Because it happened at 2:30. I am always telling my students, my storytelling students, that stories are really how we make meaning out of our experiences. Even when we're asleep, our brain continues to say, all right, I was there and now I'm here and I hope I'm going there. But the tricky thing is that whatever happens next is usually not what you're expecting or hoping for. And that's why what happened at 2:30 today made my heart feel like it was bursting into the rest of my insides with happiness. Let me start about five months ago. I'm in my neighborhood of Bushwick, Brooklyn. I'm walking toward the DeKalb stop of the L train and all of a sudden I hear this explosion of screaming from across the street. I hear, Fargot Farragut, get the fuck outta here, you fucking cock sucking queer. Go back to San Francisco. And I'm looking around and I notice everyone's jaws are dropped. Like, where did this burst of rage come from? And then I realize it's all being directed at me. I'm studying this man all of a sudden who's right across the street. He's got, like, cap, a fisherman's cap on that has, like, that brim that covers the eyes, so it keeps most of the face in shadow. Like, Woody Allen sometimes wears hats like that to, like, keep everyone from knowing who he is in the streets. And he's wearing sunglasses. He's got a gray beard. He looks a little bit like Tommy Chong does today. Maybe Latino, but a lot less laid back than Tommy Chong. Right. The most distinctive thing about this guy is the energy, is the hate, because it's all throughout his body. His limbs are shaking. He looks like one of those people who's speed walking, but it's not exercise. It's just this hate that's raging out of him. So he turns around a corner, I turn around a corner, and I think to myself, all right, that man was out of his mind. And, you know, within two blocks, he'll probably be screaming at a poor Jew or something, right? So, whatever. I went back into my ipod world and back into the minutia of my life and forgot all about it. Two weeks later, I'm walking toward the DeKalb stop of the L train when I hear, way off, about a block away, maybe a football field between us, this screaming happening off in the distance. Faggot, Farragut, get the fuck outta here. We're gonna get rid of you, you motherfucking, cocksucking queer. And I look around, people's jaws are dropped like, where did this come from? And I see from a whole block away, it's aimed again right at me. And I'm thinking, holy shit, this guy. Whether he's homeless or an actual neighborhood, he's got it out for me. There's something going on here. I've never seen this guy, never looked at this guy, never spoken to this guy. But I mean something to this guy. And I didn't want to really think about it because it started reminding me of some unpleasant things. It reminded me that my husband, who is a black belt, is no longer with me to walk with me to the subway. It reminded me that, you know, I get upset sometimes that I'm still so poor at 43 that I gotta live way out at the eighth stop on the L train while all my friends are successful enough to live closer to the city. But most of all, it reminds me of when I was five years old, sitting there in the dining room, looking at the fibers of the red carpet and listening to the monkeys on the little record player there and realizing that I now know what the words fag and gay mean. And that even though I'm just five, I won't be in kindergarten for another year. I know those words mean me. I know that I have a crush on the boy next door and that I want to see him naked. And that that means I'm a gay fag. And that that means inside me, I am disgusting. I am deformed. I am something that people passionately hate. So I put it out of my mind again. And a few weeks later, it happens again. And a few weeks later, it happens again. And it seems to be getting angrier and angrier every time it happens because. But there's a new twist. He starts saying, you're following me. You're following me. You're stalking me. Like, what's the chance that two men who live within four blocks of the De Cab stop of the L train might run into each other near the De Cab stop of the L train? So I tried to put it out of my mind again because what have I got? You know, it's sticks and stones. That hasn't happened yet. I feel like we might be going there. I feel like this kind of like grease fire that goes through the veins of his body every time he sees me. It might mean a rock or a fist or a weapon coming my way at some point. But what am I gonna do? I'm a grown man. Complain about, you know, some lunatic who's just calling me names in the street. May 10th. May 10th. I'm coming back from the dentist at 2:00 clock in the afternoon. I'm exiting the L train, the DeKalb stop, and for the first time, we're on the same side of the street and walking toward each other. He starts screaming, farragut, Fargo, go back to San Francisco. You're following me. And then I know. Oh, fuck. He is rushing me. He's coming at me. And before I know it, he's taken a punch at me. He hits me in the chin and it lands mostly on the shoulder. And then he just keeps screaming, faggot, faggot, faggot, as he goes down the block. But he can see that I'm calling 911 right then the cops come. And of course, he's gone by then, so they just take a long description of it. Now I am afraid to leave my mother fucking apartment. Okay, I've got 911 on speed dial and ready to go on the phone in my hand. Everywhere I walk, I've got Mace in the other hand, ready to pull the trigger. I have alerted everyone I know on Facebook and Twitter and everywhere I go. Now, instead of listening to music, which I do, that's what I do to prepare this podcast is I listen to music walking around my neighborhood. That's my joy. That's my meditation. That's how I curate the show. No more now. Wherever I'm walking, I am looking everywhere like a soldier. I start deciding I'll try using the subway stop further down the Jefferson stop and just take a long walk every time I have to go into the city. But on May 11, I see him again. He sees me seeing him. He sees me dial 911 immediately. And he goes, oh, yeah, call the cops, you little faggot. Boo hoo hoo. And then he ducks into the hospital to get away. So I'm like, I've got a real situation here. And here's why you should tell everyone you know, if you're in a situation of being harassed like this. Because even with the police, it really does matter who you know. I started telling friends I was at this dinner party two Sundays ago, and it was all new people, new guys that I didn't know. So it was all funny stories. And I didn't want to bring this story out and sour the evening, but at the end of the evening, it just kind of slipped out of me because it was on my mind. And one of them said, oh, wait a minute, I've got friends in the nypd. We will make sure that there are hate crimes detectives assigned to this and that they are on the street with you ASAP looking for this guy. So another day goes by where I'm able to see him without him seeing me. So well. So I take his photograph going into the Gourmet Deli, and I go into the Gourmet Deli, and I talk to those guys, and those guys say, oh, God, yeah, he blew up the other day here when we had to call the cops on him. So I'm like, all right, the guy is becoming a danger to other people in the neighborhood too. Well, today I meet Detective Smart and Detective Sanchez. I figured because I usually see him in the middle of the afternoon, that would be a good time to meet. We get in the car and we just start riding around the neighborhood, mostly around the hospital. But after about 40 minutes, I'm so dejected. It just feels so fruitless trying to catch someone randomly in the middle of an afternoon, out to take a walk, whatever, nothing, nothing, nothing. We're not seeing anything. And finally the detectives are like, all right, we gotta give up on this. I said, well, why don't you at least talk to the guys in the deli first and they can maybe have some more information on you based on his causing a ruckus there. They're like, okay, we'll do that. They go into the deli, start talking to the guys. I step out of the deli as the detectives are walking out of the deli and wrapping up and being like, well, too bad we couldn't help you out today, buddy. There he is right across the street. He doesn't see me yet, but I see him. I say to the detectives, that's him. That's the guy. They're like, you sure? I'm like, I'm absolutely fucking lutely sure. And for the first time ever, I start walking toward him. I start walking across the street. The detectives are behind me. And as soon as he sees that I'm walking toward him, you better believe he explodes.

[Kristen Bell]

Figure, faggot, I'm gonna fucking get you.

[Kevin Allison]

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the detectives are like, okay, then. And that is why I can share this photograph with you right now. That is Frank Rodriguez. He lives near the DeKalb stop of the L train. And I now have a restraining order against him. I don't know if he'll be out on bail tomorrow or stay living in my neighborhood or what. But I do know that this little trajectory I've been living through for the past several months came to about the best place it possibly could get at about 2:30 this afternoon. Thank you very much. We'll be right back.

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[Kevin Allison]

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[Kevin Allison]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Kevin Allison]

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[Cameron Esposito]

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[Kevin Allison]

We're back.

[Dax Shepard]

So last summer I spent a month on Fire island during an art residency, which is an amazing opportunity. I actually had never been to Fire island before. It has a sort of mythology as a place, this gay space, but also sort of specifically as a place for gay sex. So I was entering into this month long experiment basically with a kind of interior look at gay male culture that I had never had before. Depending on who I talk to, my time on Fire island was either going to be the most exciting sexual adventure of my life or absolutely the most embarrassing experience ever. As soon as I found out that I was going on an art residency, of course, what I do is I call my parents because I'm sort of still trying to convince them and maybe even myself that being an artist is like an actual tangible profession. So I get really excited, like, oh my gosh, you know, I've gotten this art residency. And of course they get really excited too. So they tell other people. So my father told his, he's got one friend who's like his gay friend at this point. It's like every time my father mentions this friend, he tells me, you know, he's gay. Every time he says this to me, I'm like, yeah, I know, I know, I know. At this point, I know that this is your gay friend. I totally understand. Anyway, so I told him that I was going on this residency. I spoke to him like a week later and he was like, oh, you know, I told my friend that you were going to Fire island, and oh. And he said you were just gonna have the best time, you know, he was, that's a great place. And that's his old stomping grounds, you know? Cause he's gay. Yeah. And then we sort of awkwardly pause and I think both of us are sort of thinking, yeah. And it's not necessarily that it would be shocking for my father to think of me as gay because I have come out to my parents as being gay when I was 19. However, when I came out as gay, I was coming out to them as a gay woman. I am trans and I was assigned female and I was raised girl. So the first time that I came out to my parents as gay, it was because I was identified as a dyke and I was coming out to them by telling them, you know, I have a girlfriend. However, the advent of my starting to take testosterone and physical changes, like I had top surgery as well as the Fact that I have now a full beard. These are new things, new signifiers, both for me and for my parents. So coming out as a gay woman to my parents, that was sort of the first one. But I come out as many different things, as trans, as genderqueer, as poly, as kink. So each of these new layers of identity, especially with my identity as genderqueer, because even though I present and sound very masculine, I don't really identify as male or female. But the idea that someone would go from female to other, not necessarily from female to male, is something that really throws them off. So the idea that I would be heading off to a gay destination, a place that's specifically known for gay sex, but a kind of gay sex that perhaps my parents haven't imagined as part of my lifestyle yet. I think that was that pregnant pause between my father and I. So I was trying to also sort of apply what I know about gay male culture to my impending immersion. And when I was living in Baltimore, I spent many years as a bartender at gay bars. And there, you know, the sort of lessons that I learned and things that I picked up really quickly. One of them was dick, right? Like, gay guys, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick. Like, everything is about dick. It's about the dick that they saw. It's about their dick. It's about where they're gonna put their dick. It's about what they're doing with each other's dicks. It was all about dicks. But there was also this sort of underlying current in that that could be illustrated by the. This story. I was behind the bar one time, and it was lesbian night. So we would have lesbian night, you know, and all of the ladies would come out, and that would be sort of dyke night at the gay male bar. I was setting up my bar, and one of our regulars, a guy probably in his 30s or 40s, was sitting at the bar, and he turned to someone else. And in response to the. To this being the dyke night, he said to. He said to the guy sitting next to. To him, ugh, this is about vaginas. Ugh. Disgusting. I came screaming out of one of those 30 years ago, and I've never been back since. What a dick. So I also understood that in the absence of penis, there was a kind of loathing. I really had the sense reinforced over and over and over again that vagina, or bodies that were different were really frowned upon. Guys would cruise me, cruising. Looked a little something like this. I'd be out at a bar with my friends. We'd be hanging out or I'd be working and someone would be staring at me from across the bar. And then they would approach me and then they'd hit on me or say hello. And I would respond, I would say hi. And they would be kind of thrown off because they would hear in my voice a sort of feminine femininity that they weren't expecting. And I would get these kinds of responses where guys would be like, oh man, you're a girl. That sucks. I thought you were so hot before I knew you were a girl. And that was all the kind of baggage that I was carrying into this experience on Fire Island. Thinking about how to enter that space, I was worried about navigating Fire island as a cunted creature. So as soon as I got there, I was trying to figure out, how does that space work? How will it work for me? And, you know, there were things like a space in between two of the neighborhoods on Fire island that's called the Meat Rack, and it's a magical sex forest. And I was thinking about how to, how to negotiate these spaces without any training. I had no compass for this. It was like either someone was gonna tell me or show me or I really felt like I was lost and that it may be hopeless. I may never get laid on Fire Island. In fact, one of my friends, you know, I was talking to people about my sort of hang ups before I went to Fire island. And I had a friend who said this to me. He was like, well, good luck getting laid there because you're all holes and no poles. You know, the problem here with thinking about maleness or femaleness is that there, it's cutting bodies down a really false binary line, which is to say that many bodies, regardless of their identity, don't quite fit into the box of 100% maleness or 100% femaleness. On top of which, you know, there are plenty of people who have bodies that function differently. Cisgendered guys who have erectile issues or, you know, folks that have different genitals, people that have different bodies, guys that have different body weights. You know, these are all sort of realities. And nature loves diversity. Nature will show us that there are many natural more than just two of anything. And when we kind of default to this gender binary for our identity, especially when it's breaking down how we cruise for and how we have access to sex, then it sort of has the same problematic structure as breaking things down along a gender line in terms of housing or employment opportunities or, or educational opportunities. It becomes sort of tainted by this problem of social justice. So the first week that we're there, we attend an event that's called Whip It Out Wednesdays. Whip It Out Wednesdays is a simple premise really. You go to the bar, you order a drink which is massively overpriced, and if you pull down your pants and show your dick to the bartender, you get a discount on that drink. So given the pricing structure of the beverages, it's really advantageous to show your genitals to the barkeep. So I was standing at the bar, ordering my drink next to three other guys. And one by one, as the drinks arrived, they unzipped and showed their dick to the bartender. And when it got to me, he said, alright, your turn. And I just reached into my pants and I pulled out my packer and I set it on the bar. Now, for listeners who don't know what a packer is, this is basically a prosthetic penis that you might wear in your pants so that you have like approximate a bulge. So I just reached into my pants and pulled, literally pulled my dick off and out and set it onto the bar. The bartender just started laughing and he's like, oh no honey, we don't take fake dick here. If you want a discount, you better show us your dick. And so I just, I just felt like, well, I gotta give this guy what he's asking for. And so I unzipped my pants and I pulled them down, revealing my genitals, my vagina basically. And he was like, wow. Oh, oh, okay, that's definitely a first. And to his credit, he did give me a discount on my drink. And as a bonus for showing two sets of genitals, I didn't have to pull down my pants any other time that night. So that was very gracious of him. The first time that I showed up at an underwear party on Fire Island, I understood immediately that showing up in my underwear connotated consent. So by being there scantily clad, you're basically giving everyone else in that crowd the go ahead to touch you, to grope you, to reach their hands and your pants. They will rub their swollen genitals on any exposed part of your body. And this could be really terrifying. But I didn't find it to be that way. I actually was really excited by the experience of having my body be desired. And I felt like it was really intoxicating in a way. So the first Friday I showed up at the this underwear party and I'm in my underwear and people are grabbing me and jamming their hands down my pants. And I was also really confronted by the fact that while I'm being cruised by guys and cruising, that I also have to negotiate my body and the difference in my body that may not be otherwise apparent. So I was doing just that with this individual, a very handsome guy, and he was hitting on me, and things were going swimmingly. I was very attracted to him. He was wearing these tiny little red boxer briefs that were taut and pulled in the front. He asked, like, what are you into? Are you top? Are you bottom? You know, do you suck? Do you fuck? It was all about negotiating, and it wasn't even something that was thinly veiled. I told him I was trans and that I don't have a penis, like, in the way that he has. And his bulge got bigger. And he said, that's awesome. And that was pretty much the best response I had ever gotten in person from someone who was gay, male identified. It's sort of like the difference between being turned on in spite of and being turned on because of. And he followed that by saying, you know, I've had experiences with trans guys. I'm really into it. And I like boys like you, Boner. Right? Like, what could be better than hearing that? Like, I like boys like you. I was like, I would like to suck your cock. So we made our way into the back room. The back room is kind of this place, if you've never been to a back room in a gay bar where sex is happening. It's a bunch of bodies, and they're writhing and they're sucking and they're fucking, and it's all happening all around you. Like, the guy that is sucking someone else's dick is basically rubbing up against your leg because you're standing so close to one another. And so I went into the back room with the boy in the red shorts, and he gingerly guided me to my knees. But before I could even think about how dirty the floor was, I started to feel knocking on my head from the side, from the back. And I sort of was, like, looking around, like, what's going on here? And I quickly realized that in a room full of people sucking and fucking and writhing, that if you get on your knees, everybody around you will try to put their dick in your mouth. And this could sound super rapey, but that wasn't my experience there. In fact, I felt like being in the middle the of. Of a room full of all of that desire, and a lot of it focused on me. To be the object of desire was really intoxicating. I was surprised many times over during my month on Fire Island. And a lot of the surprise came from my own thoughts and ideas about gay male culture. Like, I had lots of assumptions about gay men that just ended up not being true or ended up being a little bit antiquated. It would be like thinking about any other culture in a flat way, which is to say that there are probably lots of gay men who will, till the day they die, talk shit about vaginas or be really disgusted by bodies that are different than theirs. And I had many positive sexual experiences in my months on Fire Island. And so I was surprised many times. Just like the boy in the red shorts, There were a lot of other people that had experience with trans guys that were positive experiences. Then I also had to confront my assumptions about what my desires were. Because growing up as a dyke or as a lesbian, I also had this kind of body loathing about penises. And there was also this sort of reciprocal hatred for male bodies within gay female culture. When I was in that culture and I was getting turned on and I was having sex with gay men, I had to confront my own assumptions about what my desires were. And that was like kind of critically refiguring my sexuality, which is so exciting to find yourself in your 30s, having grown to think of yourself as someone who is radical and queer and sexual and still being able to learn and grow and change your sexuality and evolve. So right along with my identity evolving as someone who is genderqueer, so too is my sexuality evolving.

[Kristen Bell]

I saw two earthworms mating.

[Dax Shepard]

I was about to use them for bathing.

[Kristen Bell]

Then I saw their tricks. No holes and no pricks. Hermaphrodite sex is amazing. I went on a date with a Jamie. I wanted Jamie like crazy. She dressed like a guy. I didn't have to ask why. Cause.

[Kevin Allison]

This is Risk. This is Nicole Reynolds behind me now with a song called Earthworms. A Risk fan named Alison on Twitter suggested I might use this song on this episode. And thank you to Allison for that. We just heard from Chris Gray, who you can [e-mail] that's K R I S T I N G R E Y. I love the way that that story talks about things that people often leave unsaid. A lot of the time. You know, I get emails every now and then from Risk fans who are aware that I've done some sex education. And they'll say things like, kevin, I'm a straight man who can't reach orgasm unless I'm anally stimulated. And you know what? I Know that no woman in the world would ever want to do something like that for me. Or Kevin, I'm a polyamorous woman and I'm in love with a monogamously minded woman. And I know there's no way we'll ever be able to see eye to eye. Or Kevin, I'm a gay man who doesn't top and I'm trying to date a guy who only bottoms. And I know we'll never be able to function together. Well, that's why we need to be telling each other our stories. I'll tell you what. Once you start sharing about those sorts of things with your friends and lovers, you begin to see things like the fact that sex doesn't have to be about achieving an orgasm or even maintaining an erection or meeting any other expectation. Once you start opening up to the people you like, you'll see that the connections we make with people don't have to be 100% casual and meaningless or 100% lifelong marriage material. When you ask to hear people's stories, you'll see that, you know, no one is entirely this label or entirely that label. Everyone has odd idiosyncrasies in their sexual practices and preferences and bodies, and everyone has insecurities about it. But when we open up and share, we do discover new ways to deal with it all together. Alrighty then, I have spoken. And that brings us to our last story today, which comes to us from the wonderful stand up comic, Cameron Esposito. You can find Cameron on two different podcasts. There is Put yout Hands Together and there's Wham, Bam, Pow. She told this story at the Risk Live show in Los Angeles at the nerdmelt Theater a day or two after doma, the Defense of Marriage act, was struck down by the Supreme Court. And so this is the second story on this episode that was very much a reaction to something that had just happened. So without further ado, here she is At Risk live at Nerd Melt. This is Cameron Esposito with a story we call Come Together.

[Kristen Bell]

So many foxes and straight lines. Most of us are such a queer kind the worms do what they feel to me that is real and they don't give a down. If you mind. Well, I'm gonna. I wrote something and it is a story, but it's also about some of the events this week. And I honestly don't know that I yet trust myself to just like be able to talk about it openly. Because it's like, oh, I'm a lesbian, obviously. Look at my Me. Look at me. Look at my me. And this is a huge, huge week for me. This is a huge, huge week for gay folks. I'm actually like, I still can't even. I don't even. Are we okay Yesterday, My girl. I don't. I feel so. I, like, I am like the toughest jean jacket you've ever met. But I might cry. I might cry 72 times talking to you right now, or never at all. I'm not sure. My girlfriend and I just. Yesterday when we heard that, we just stared at each other all day, just like, is there. Are we supposed to go somewhere? Like, I just felt like we should go somewhere. Do you know what I mean? Like, I didn't know. We literally, like, got in the car at that and, like, I had a show last night and we had. And then she. We just, like, got in the car and just drove towards West Hollywood. Like, I think this is a thing. We just drive to there then. Especially being in la, where you're, like, in your house and you're just like. We just. We looked at each other and then we work in separate rooms in our house because we both work from home, and so we work in separate rooms. So we just would, like, look at each other and then be like, all right, back to her, and then go to work. And then one of us would just, like, tweet out, and then the other one would open the door and be like, hey, great tweet. You know? Like, that was the whole. It was just 12 hours of that. So I'm going to read something to you guys. I hope that's okay. Yeah, awesome. Okay. Yesterday morning, my dad called to say that he was so, so happy for me and my girlfriend about the DOMA news. I asked him if he was happy for himself, too, that he'd be able to see his daughter married. I'm so, so happy for me, too, he said. He was the first person I talked to yesterday. Well, besides my girlfriend, who was sleeping next to me when I checked Twitter and found out SCOTUS had left our civil rights under the tree. This is still really fresh. I'm overwhelmed and, like, tired from just years of fighting, like, holding my body tight. I don't know if that makes sense. Like, in a. Almost like just waiting to be attacked or to be disappointed. I was a little gay kid who had no idea what gay meant. Growing up in a very Catholic family in the suburbs of Chicago, I had no reference point. No one I knew was gay. No one. I was Charlie Chaplin for Halloween one year and I remember just being like, overjoyed at the prospect of wearing a suit flanked by 75 gems and a zillion poodle skirted girls. I walked house to house in a bowler hat and mustache, hauling an adult sized cane along with me because it turns out they don't make Charlie Chaplin canes in child size. Actually, an addendum, I posted this on the Internet today, and somebody posted a link to an Etsy site that sells. So 10 years of progress, George Bush to this and Chaplain Kane for every kid. You know what I mean? That's really exciting news. I've always gotten along well with my family. They're quite literally my best friends. But as a kid, I didn't understand how to be what they expected. Some things I understood, like, the importance of sticking together and leaving no one behind. There's an almost tribal element to my family. Like, if you knew us, you could imagine us rushing a castle with raised swords and a cheer up, Esposito. The part I didn't understand was how to be a girl. Because being a girl sort of also meant being the opposite of a boy and, like, the counterpoint to a boy. And I didn't understand how to be that. I didn't understand how to be what seemed to come so easy to my two sisters or my parents or everyone else around me. I didn't know how to be straight. I dated the captain of my high school football team, and I was the mascot, a red bird. He was a really nice guy. He's a kind man now. He was my best friend at the time. Senior year, we had a school dance that was famous couples themed. And having literally been voted couple most likely to live happily ever after by my graduating class, which still sticks with me to this day as being amazing. Like, they looked at, like, the captain of the football team, just a dude with 4% body fat and a bird. And they were like, you're gonna make it. Like, I love that. I just love that so much. So since we had been voted couple most likely to live happily ever after, we decided to go to this dance, this famous couple's dance, dressed as each other, dressed as ourselves, the most famous couple in our class. So he wore nylons and a wig, and I wore his football uniform. It was my favorite dance. I had the time of my life. Not because I was with my boyfriend, but because for the night I got to be my boyfriend. Like, for the night I was dating a girl. Even if confusingly, that girl was me in a way. There's a little back to the Future Y and kind of Inception Y in there or like whatever sci fi movie seems to apply and you're like, chose, you know. The call was coming from inside the nylons. The call was coming from inside the nylons. My dad and I have a special bond. He sees a lot of himself in me and I see it too. He coached me in every sport growing up. I resisted his coaching with every frame of human being, but I played really hard to please him. We both argue our point for a living. He's a lawyer, I'm a comic. It's basically the same job. He's emotional and kind hearted. There was this one time he walked for two miles across an open field between two highways to walk from a train station to this, like, swim meet. I was racing it. Like, that's the kind of dad he is. Like, he was the only dad at the swim meet in a suit and tie, but with like brambles in his hair. Like, because he had to be there. Like, he's like that kind of dad. And my mom was there too, at that meet. Like, she and I are very close. She's funny as hell and she's creative and she's like, generally cool. I have like a cool kind of a. Like a funny. Like, she's dancing. She's a funny mom. But my dad is the outwardly emotional one. Like, he's the coach. For instance, he's saying at my sister's wedding, and this wasn't weird because he's saying like, every family dinner for the entirety of our, like, just still now, he just like, if. And it's always like these show, like these, like, these really, like, these solos from like, tunes like, like. I Left My Heart in San Francisco is apparently a song. I only know that because of how many dinners he like, who will get up even to address. It's beautiful to see. He just loves his family so much. It's almost crushing sometimes. I came out to my dad passively. My parents were in my childhood bedroom, sitting next to me on my bed. My mom asked, danny seems like more than a friend. Something going on between you two? I don't think I answered. Maybe, I said. We were dating. Then I remember the next thing. Sitting next to my dad in the car in a Walgreens parking lot. And he was running in for something. He was upset. He was worried about my living so far away in Boston at the time and also about my ruining my life by being gay. You'll never have kids. He said. I could adopt. I said, if you're gay, I could Never support you adopting a child, he said, my dad is adopted. Maybe that accounts for the extra love in my family. He got to make a family that looks like him. He got to create relatives he is actually related to. And so maybe he almost couldn't handle my reversing the process, like expanding out again, diluting the esposito. Or he thought I was going to hell. Either way, he couldn't imagine my adopting, even knowing from his own personal experience that adoption can lead to happy, connected families. I was devastated. My mom bounced back pretty quickly. She started to ask me questions, seek out friends with gay kids. My dad cried for five years. Every time we talked, he cried. During that time, I didn't feel comfortable in my family. I felt like the differences between us outweighed the similarities. I was being myself, getting to know myself, and this made my dad sad. It broke my heart. Then I stayed in Boston and my first girlfriend. I finally found someone who understood that Charlie Chaplin part of me. Walking around the campus of my Catholic college, people would ask if we were sisters, which is hilarious because I'm a white person and my first girlfriend was Asian. Like, we weren't sisters. We were girlfriends. But I get it. Also, like, I get it that people could sense something was similar between us, but they were, like, too Catholic to really understand what it was. They were just like, they loved umbros, you know, like, that it's not terrible to come out. Sometimes I think people. There's a misconception there. Like, especially parents, I think, really worry about their kids when they're coming out. But it's not terrible. It's a relief. You've sensed your difference all along. Others have sensed it too. And now there's, like, finally a word for it, or a neighborhood or a destination or a designation or even a slur. Like, even a slur helps because at least, you know, at least I knew. And I found someone like me, another gay woman, and she understood. So, yeah, in a way. I mean, we were family. I was visiting home, and we were at P F Chang's. My dad. Yeah, thank you. I distinctly remember lettuce cups being served. My dad had just gotten a call, like, maybe a week earlier. His birth family was trying to find him. Maybe he was 54 at the time. 54 years of living with supportive, loving parents that he was somehow different from in this way that maybe he couldn't actually describe. Like, how do you imagine people you don't know exist? And then one phone call, and he knew. My dad has a sister, my aunt. She's adopted too. They grew up together. But since that phone call, he also has five brothers. They met in their 50s. He didn't get to meet his mom. She passed the year I was born. But I've seen a photo of her and she looks like me. Or I guess I look like her. I've met one of his brothers. My dad's met all five. I guess I never realized until I met my dad's brother Michael that my dad and my aunt look nothing alike. I don't know if you like, because you grow up and everybody's adults. So you just think like, they don't like, they just look like adult. Do you remember that from life? Like, you don't think that your parents should look like they're siblings because why would they? They're adults. So they don't look anything alike. But they are alike. They're tough and kind and good hearted and Italian. Like really, really Italian. Like super Italian. Like again, the adopted don't look as. But a lot of chest hair from even the women. Just 1 to 2 degrees in different directions. In my family, I literally have relatives whose last name is Sposito. My last name is Esposito. Like it's. We're so Italian. We just found the other closest Italian name. And then those people married each other. Okay, religious too. Like super religious Chicagoans. They've my dad and sister, they've known all the same people. They remember their grandmother living with them as children. They remember making wine with her and sausage in their basement. I told you, they're Italian. And they remember visiting the orphanage where they were adopted from to bring presents at Christmas. Their parents always brought the nuns and the orphans presents at Christmas. I would imagine that they also remember the fear, my dad and his sister, that came with being different and finding out why they're different from another kid on their block. You're adopted, this kid said, pushing it out like a slur, meaning you're different, you're less than. You're wrong. My dad had to ask his mom what it meant, what adopted meant. And if he was, was he adopted? Yes. His mom said she couldn't have kids, which was a sort of sin in and of itself for a Catholic family at the time, like a failure. I'm sure he wondered over the next 50 years whether he was a mistake, whether he was wrong, whether there was anyone else out there like him. And then he met his brothers. He met a group of people somehow like him in small ways. Like they don't sound alike and they're Not Chicagoans, and they're not espositos, but they're a little bit Italian. And they look so much alike. My dad and his brothers, they're all losing their hair in the same places, and they have the same eyes. We came out together, my dad and I, we found new family, and that strengthened our existing family. My girlfriend, who I woke up with this morning, she was there when my Nana passed. My dad's mom, his adopted mom, his real mom. She was two days shy of 100 when she died. Which really sucks if you think about the fact that I don't get any of that fucking blood. It's a really long life. That was one year ago this week that she passed. We buried my nana on her 100th birthday. And while we were preparing for the funeral, my girlfriend took my dad's car and had it washed because he had asked her to so that it would be clean for the procession. My girlfriend did him that favor without question. And he trusted her enough to ask. My dad likes my girlfriend. They talk with one another. He gives her legal advice. They have a lot in common. And my girlfriend likes my dad. My dad's brothers also sent flowers for that mass a year ago. So one year ago this week, we stood there, all of us, in front of those flowers as a family. And I guess that's what I was thinking about yesterday. I was thinking about family and I was thinking about flowers. The same stuff that I'll have at my wedding. My lawful, affirming, honest wedding, where my dad will sing. It's very fucking awesome. I just want to add one thing. I just want to add one thing. I cleared this story with my dad, who also emailed, like, a freeze. He got up this morning and, like, emailed for some reason, like, 50 guys he went to high school with to tell him to tell them that he. That he was really happy about the decision. And I thought that was really fucking cute, too. Like, he came out also. Yeah, it's great news. And my first girlfriend, because of social media, this is the cool thing. This is a cool part. Read this. And told me that she loved it and that I didn't have to change her name. So her name is actually Callie. And she. That's. This is dedicated to her. So what's up, Kel? Thanks for the Facebook message with a huge, weird smiley in it. Okay, have a great night, guys.

[Dax Shepard]

It.

[Cameron Esposito]

When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was gay. Cause I could draw. My uncle was. And I kept my room straight. I told my mom tears Rushing down my face she's like, ben, you've loved girls since before pre K trippin'. Yeah, I guess she had a point, didn't she? Bunch of stereotypes all in my head. I remember doing the math, like, yeah, I'm good at little League. A preconceived idea of what it all meant but those that like the same sex had the characteristics the right wing conservatives think it's a decision and you can be cured with some treatment in religion man made rewiring of a predisposition Playing God Ah, nah, here we go. America the brave still fears what we don't know and God loves all his children Is somehow forgotten but we paraphrase a book written 3500 years ago I.

[Kristen Bell]

Don'T know and I can change even if I tried Even if I wanted to and I can't change Even if even if I tried Even if I wanted to My love, my love, my love she keeps me warm she keeps me warm she keeps me warm she keeps me warm.

[Kevin Allison]

That'S all for this episode, folks. This is Ryan Lewis and Macklemore behind me now. You can always find links to the websites of the musicians and the storytellers on the listen [e-mail] and hey, if you want to be a part of any Risk episode at any time, no matter where you are in the world, check out the submissions [e-mail] if you've got a story you'd like to tell, we'd like to help you tell it here. Don't forget, we also have a storytelling [e-mail], one on one coaching workshops for multiple people. Workshops that you can take online in your own [e-mail] you can also follow us on Twitter and FacebookShow and follow me on Twitter hekevinalison. Leaves one thing left to say, folks. Today's the day. Take a risk.

[Cameron Esposito]

If I was gay I would think hip hop hates me. Have you read the YouTube comments lately? Man that's gay gets dropped on the daily we become so numb to what we're saying A culture founded from oppression yet we don't have acceptance for call each other faggots behind the keys of a message board A word rooted in hate yet our genre still ignores it Gayest anonymous with the lesser it's the same hate that's caused wars from religion Gender to skin color the complexion of your pigment the same fight that led people to walk outs and sit ins it's human rights for everybody There is no difference. Live on and be yourself. When I was at church they taught me something else if you preach hate at the service those words aren't anointed that holy water that you soak in has been poisoned when everyone else is more comfortable remaining voiceless rather than biting perhum humans that have had their rights stolen I might not be the same but that's not important no freedom till we're equal Damn right I support it.

[Kristen Bell]

My love, my love, my love she keeps me warm she keeps me warm she keeps me warm she keeps me warm.

[Cameron Esposito]

We press play, don't press pause Progress march on with the veil over our eyes we turn our back on the cause Till the day to my uncles can be united by law when kids aren't walking around the hallway Plagued by pain in their heart A world so hateful Some would rather die than be who they are and a certificate on paper isn't gonna solve it all but it's a damn good place to start no law is gonna change us we have to change us Whatever God you believe in we come from the same one Strip away the fear underneath it's all the same love about time that we raised up 6.

[Kristen Bell]

Even if I try Even if I wanted to and I can't change Even if I try Even if I wanted to My love, My love, My love She keeps me warm she keeps me warm she keeps me warm she keeps me warm.

[Dax Shepard]

Is it normal?

[Kevin Allison]

Normal? Well, what's normal?

[Dax Shepard]

Let's see. If you're standing in a room stripped.

[Kevin Allison]

And it's dark, and you're hugging a.

[Kristen Bell]

Person, loving them and rubbing them up.

[Dax Shepard]

And down, and they're rubbing you and.

[Kevin Allison]

Rubbing them and rubbing up and down.

[Kristen Bell]

And suddenly the light goes on and.

[Dax Shepard]

It'S the same sex you've been trained.

[Kristen Bell]

To go but it felt okay.