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Quid Pro Quo, Revisited - RISK! | Wave AI Podcast Notes

Quid Pro Quo, Revisited

Tue Mar 17 2026

(Content note: child sexual abuse) In 2016, ⁠Ed G.⁠ got on stage at RISK! and told a story he'd never told anyone. Now, ten years later, ⁠Ophira Eisenberg⁠ sits down with him to go places that story couldn't: the FBI, the Pope, the survivors who found each other decades later, and the hard-won question of where shame really belongs. Ed's story begins in Cheyenne, Wyoming, where a boy abandoned by his violent father and drowning in poverty finds an unlikely lifeline in the local Catholic church. What the bishop who runs it asks for in return will take Ed the better part of a lifetime to fully reckon with.

Summary

RISK! — “Quid Pro Quo, Revisited”
Host: Kevin Allison
Guests: Ed Gavigan, Ophira Eisenberg
Release Date: March 17, 2026

Episode Overview

This special episode of RISK! revisits Ed Gavigan’s harrowing story “Quid Pro Quo,” originally told in 2015, about his experiences with child sexual abuse and its aftermath. This time, it also includes a raw, candid conversation between Ed and fellow storyteller Ophira Eisenberg, recorded ten years later. The episode dives into surviving trauma, the complexities of institutional betrayal, and the life-long impacts of abuse, through personal storytelling and reflection.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of Storytelling for Survivors

Transformation Through Storytelling: Ed shares how telling one’s story not only helps others feel less alone, but also shifts the burden of shame off the victim.
- Ed recalls how, after live performances, audience members would approach to share their own experiences:
  - “People will stand behind the person telling me their story, waiting to tell me their story. And you’re kind of like, okay, I just finished. Thank you. And I feel for you. And can you just email me?” (04:13, Ed)
- Ophira notes that audience reactions highlight overlooked details and help redefine what being “seen and heard” really means (05:00, Ophira).
Side Effects of Vulnerability: For both storytellers, sharing these narratives opens unexpected emotional exchanges and resonates deeply, offering solidarity and collective healing.

2. Ed’s Story: Survival and Betrayal

[Story Segment Begins ~05:48; ends ~20:01]

Childhood and Abuse:
- Ed recounts a turbulent upbringing—an abusive father, financial hardship, and relocation to Wyoming.
- A new Catholic bishop includes Ed in household chores, then systematically grooms and abuses him under the guise of confession (12:02).
  - “He goes, listen, pull down your pants. You’re going to have to show me what you do when you think about girls… The church has been really good to your family, and it would just be a shame if all of that came to an end because you cannot confess your sins.” (13:12–14:32, Ed)
- Ed describes the calculus of survival: the impossible choice between his family’s stability and his own safety (15:54).
- He later learns this bishop had previously been relocated after another victim’s suicide (18:53).
Institutional Complicity:
- The bishop was transferred by the church to Wyoming, not out of ignorance, but as a cover-up after abuse allegations elsewhere.

3. Processing the Past, Then and Now

Reflection Ten Years Later
- Ophira asks Ed what it’s like to listen back:
  - “I remember feeling lost, like, thinking to myself, I’m going to burst into tears. What am I going to tell right now that I can wrap my head around? That will kind of divert my emotion.” (20:34, Ed)
- Ed becomes emotional remembering details of poverty and the complexities of being labeled as “the poor people” even by the church (21:13).
Symbols of Deprivation and Privilege:
- The memory of “honey roasted cashews” stands out as a symbol of decadence he wasn’t allowed to enjoy, now forever tainted by association (24:08–24:50).

4. The Lifelong Impact of Trauma and Authority

Missing Father Figures and Lack of Trust:
- After losing his father and being betrayed by other supposed mentors, Ed notes: “I’ve never had a mentor… That guy kind of tried to be a mentor, and he wasn’t. There was no sexual overtone, nothing. It was just that this person is in a position of power or authority… and I’m not going to bond with them and I’m not going to be vulnerable.” (39:21–39:56)
Problems with Authority:
- Ed ties later struggles with authority figures—parents, clergy, cops—back to these formative betrayals (38:24).
  - “There could be no worse example than [my father] in terms of protecting the innocent. And the same with the bishop.”

5. The Culture of Silence and Cover-Up

Community Denial:
- Ed describes the insulation of abusers due to their “good deeds” and the disbelief of communities and even his own mother (34:01–35:05).
- “His charitable good works were a shield. They weren’t coming out of goodness. They were coming out of—I am going to need people to back me up if this shit ever hits the fan.” (34:34, Ed)
Institutional Response:
- After a documentary (“Procession”) was made featuring Ed and other survivors, Ed writes to the Pope, only to be connected to a canonical lawyer who asks if he’s preparing a lawsuit.
- The church’s “punishment”: restrict the bishop’s access to youth, but not remove him from the priesthood—a gesture of liability avoidance more than justice (45:01–46:50).
- “If you do believe me, then you need to follow where that goes, and this man should not remain a priest… What you have is a retired bishop who can’t teach Sunday School, and that’s OK with you?” (46:27, Ed)

6. The Creative Aftermath and Its Limits

Making the Documentary and Building Community:
- Working on “Procession” for Netflix with other abuse survivors offers ongoing solidarity and a form of justice absent from the official channels (32:34–33:59).
Reframing Shame and Seeking Justice:
- “Lifting shame” by confronting the truth in public becomes liberation for Ed and others.
- Ed: “I’m not ashamed. I am a victim. And I am also—I’m where I am in my life, which is that I can get up on stage and talk about this.” (42:56, Ed)
No Real Church Consequences:
- Despite public testimony and a widely acclaimed documentary, legal and institutional consequences are negligible.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Aftermath of Storytelling:

“Part of it was that what I found out from doing the documentary was lifting shame. And so this was the first time I had ever told people I didn’t know the story.” (42:18, Ed)
On Institutional Betrayal:

“At the end of the day, you’re going to have pedophile clergy, you’re going to have crooked cops… But it’s the institution that should have done the right thing.” (18:53, Ed)
On Shame and Responsibility:

“Again, the shame does not go on my mother. It doesn’t go on me. The shame goes on that guy, right? ... Now they have a word for it, it’s called grooming.” (36:15, Ed)
On The Church’s Response:

“‘We cannot with moral certainty say that what you’re accusing him of actually happened, but we’re going to restrict his access to youth.’” (46:37, Ed)
Black Humor as Survival:

"You should see the view from in here." (41:06, Ed, in response to people saying “Glad you’re okay now”) Ophira laughs: "Why does that make me laugh so much? Because people say it to me. Well, that's why I always have a problem when someone, instead of saying, 'How are you?' goes, 'You good?' I'm just like, 'No, you.'" (41:12, Ophira)
Ophira’s Final Word:

“God is dead. That’s what I have to say to that.” (47:06, Ophira)

Important Timestamps

05:48–20:01 — Ed’s full, uninterrupted “Quid Pro Quo” story
20:14–24:08 — Conversation: emotional aftermath of telling the story, symbols of privilege/deprivation
25:30–28:23 — Backstory on family, early Catholic life, and more on community blindness/complicity
30:11–33:59 — Discussion of the network of abusive priests, documentary “Procession,” and attempts at legal recourse
39:21–39:56 — Effects on mentorship, inability to trust authority figures
41:06–41:12 — Ed and Ophira’s wry exchange about responses to survivor stories
45:01–46:50 — Detailed account of the church’s “moral certainty” dodge and hollow discipline
47:06–47:13 — Ophira’s summation of institutional betrayal (“God is dead. That’s what I have to say to that.”)

Tone & Language

The tone is unflinching, unsentimental, and direct, with moments of dark humor as a means of survival. Both Ed and Ophira blend empathy, candor, wry observation, and righteous anger, remaining ‘remarkably real’ in the signature style of RISK!. Speaker language is preserved as much as possible for authenticity.

Final Thoughts

This episode is a profound meditation on broken trust, survival, and the power and cost of telling the truth. For survivors and allies alike, “Quid Pro Quo, Revisited” underscores both the pain of the past and the radical hope of breaking cycles of silence. The episode is both sobering and empowering—offering solidarity, demanding accountability, and refusing to let shame flourish in the shadows.

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Transcript

Kevin Allison (0:21)

Hello, folks. This is Risk, the show where people tell true stories they never thought they'd dare to share. I'm Kevin Allison, and today we're revis by Ed Gee that he told on risk back in 2015, plus a conversation that he had with his good friend Ophira Eisenberg a whole decade later. Now, both are brilliant storytellers and longtime friends of the show, and we're just so honored that they recorded this thoughtful and heartfelt conversation for us. Now, this story concerns child sexual abuse. Other than that, after a quick break, we'll revisit Quid Pro Quo with Ed G And Ophira Eisenberg.

Ophira Eisenberg (1:16)

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Ed Gavigan (1:38)

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Ed Gavigan (1:49)

hello, it's Zed Gavigan. I have been listening to Kevin Allison for more than 10 years live. And I would go to those shows in basements and small theaters, and one day I decided to get up and tell a story according to the theme of Risk, a thing that I had not talked about. And this was in 2015. Gosh, more than 10 years ago. And it was a very difficult story to tell. I hadn't done a lot of preparation. And so listening to that today, I wanted to have my dear friend Ophira, storytelling compatriot. We've told stories all across America together for, I would say, 10 years now. And we commiserate on marriage and parenting and storytelling. And we've trauma. And also trauma. Forget. Don't forget the trauma. That's the original bond.

Ed Gavigan (storytelling segment) (2:51)

Yeah.

Ed Gavigan (2:52)

Thank you for coming.

Ophira Eisenberg (2:53)

Oh, my pleasure. And the one thing, as you will hear as soon as we roll this story, is that every one of Ed's stories, obviously, they are incredibly well crafted because he's a great storyteller, as you will hear, but also, especially with this one, the topics that you decide to tackle from your life are difficult ones that people don't necessarily bring to light. And also, I think ultimately, when you tell these stories, people come up to you afterwards and they divulge a lot about themselves. They do, because they feel like they finally heard someone talk to them. About something that they've been holding onto.

Ed Gavigan (storytelling segment) (5:48)

My family ended up in Wyoming when I was about 12 years old because my dad was in the military. Most people think of Wyoming in terms of nature and wildlife and Yellowstone, But I think if Wyoming seceded from the United States, it'd be like the sixth largest nuclear power in the world. So there's all these nuclear missiles out there. My dad was in the military, so we. And he was guarded the nuclear missile bases. He started out as a drill sergeant, but then he was court martialed for brutality. Now, if you can imagine how brutal you have to be as A drill sergeant in 1968 sending men to Vietnam to be court martialed. That's my dad. So he ended up military police, which says all you need to know about that trajectory. But he was my dad. And so I had a high and tight crew cut every two weeks until we got to Wyoming. The long fuse that was my parents marriage finally detonated when we were there, which was as far away from any family members or friends or anyone we knew. And my dad was just the kind of guy that could punch a pregnant wife and have no problems with it. And like there were days I couldn't go to school because my mom would keep me home till the black eyes were gone. And it was just terrible. Like he would be beating my mother and I would jump on his back at 10 to try and stop him and then he'd throw me and keep going with her. At the end of the, the whole thing, he ends up leaving one night in a huff and cleaned out all the bank accounts and disappeared with the car the next day. So he left my mother with no job, no car, empty bank accounts, and four kids in Cheyenne, Wyoming. The last thing that we did as a family, it's funny, I'll never forget this, was the freedom train was coming through Cheyenne to celebrate the bicentennial. And that was kind of like the last thing we ever did was go and see the exhibits of our country. And then he was gone. And life was fucking hard and we had no clue how to do anything. And it was so bad. It was like, how can I be wishing for that fucker to be back here? Because that was better. So we went to the Catholic school which was in Cheyenne, a few blocks away from us. And they gave my mom a job as a secretary down there. And we got free lunch at the school. And we just, you know, tried to do the best we could. We got food stamps and you know, I became the man of the house. Like, I would go out and rake leaves and mow lawns and shovel snow. And we had these envelopes. I put my money in the house payment envelope first. That was the one we'd have to fill up. We'd sit at the kitchen table and mom was just, you know, wreck like. And I'm trying to be like, no, it's okay mom, I'll mow some more lawns or shovel some more snow. I would be an altar boy down at the church. And if you did funerals, the families of the deceased would tip you. So I would always try and volunteer for all the funeral gigs that I could get as an altar boy. Then we got this new bishop. It was a big deal because the old bishop had been like this 80 year old guy who never got out, never did anything, and just kind of like this old dusty dude that nobody really knew about. And this new bishop was like in his late 50s, kind of an energetic guy. And I met him during one of my altar boy gigs and he said, would you be able to come and rake leaves at the bishop's house for me? And I was, yeah, fine. So, I mean, the bishop's mansion, it was like, it had columns in front and it had a big wrought iron fence around it and shrubs and everything. So I started doing, you know, mow the lawn and rake the leaves and shovel the snow. Then at Thanksgiving time, couple priests pulled up from the church like the day before Thanksgiving and they get out and they have these cardboard boxes and we had brought food, cans of corn my mom had had given each one of us to bring to school for the

Ed Gavigan (storytelling segment) (13:12)

And then he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, this isn't going to work if you don't like get to the real sins. And I was like, I don't know what you mean. And he goes, what about the impure thoughts? And I was like, impure thoughts? I'm drawing a blank here, dude. I was 12. Like for me, puberty was like five years away. Like I was a small, pale, hairless kid in the gym. Like everybody else was sprouting hair and muscles and deepening voices and getting taller. And I was just like this little dude, like scared of everything. I would never take a shower. And so I didn't have impure thoughts. I didn't know what masturbation was. I'd never seen pornography. It was just all still to be discovered. And I definitely didn't have any impure thoughts. That's very frustrating for him because he says, you're not going to get full confession if you don't confess all your sins. And I just kept drawing a blank. So he goes, listen, pull down your pants. You're going to have to show me what you do when you think about girls. And I was like. And I start to, I start to. I didn't cry But I got, like, kind of choked up, and I was like, this is so fucking weird, man. I don't know how to. What's the next thing I'm supposed to do because you're asking me about stuff I don't know about. So he pulls my pants down, and at this point, it's like this. We're having this, like, thing where we're sparring, kind of. And then he goes, you know what? The church has been really good to your family, and it would just be a shame if all of that came to an end because you cannot confess your sins. And I looked at him, and I'm like, well, I'm just trying to, you know, what is it that, you know, I should be saying or doing? And he's like, you know, the church needs you to confess. And I'm the bishop, and this is how. You just need to do what I'm asking you to do or you're not going to be able to be forgiven. And it would just be terrible for your sins to, like, make your family suffer. And at that moment, there was this kind of calculus that took place. I got to provide for my family. And there's a certain, like, you know, I'm just gonna. He's the boss.

Kevin Allison (47:56)

And that is that again. I am so honored that Edge shared his story with us in the first place in 2015, and that Ed and Ofira brought so much honesty and thoughtfulness to this conversation. I have to say that when Risk first started in 2009, even though I was raised very, very, very Catholic, I still didn't grasp what an epidemic child sexual abuse was in the church and throughout society. It's still staggering to me how much of this crime is out there and the best way to have an understanding of the problem is to hear the personal experiences of the people who lived through it. So I'm thankful we can be a part of helping people share about experiences like Ed did. So you can find ed@edwardgavigan.com and look for Ophira on Instagram Ferae. Remember that we simply cannot continue producing such meaningful programming without the financial support of our listeners. If I can just be completely and totally frank with you, it's really exhausting. It's really psychologically difficult dealing with the anxiety that we on the RISC staff have to deal with every week. If our staff meetings could be more about ideas of what new things we could be bringing to you and less about oh my God, is this the end? How can we possibly cut our pay even more and continue making this job? The anxiety over how do we keep this going is really, really something. If just 10% of the folks who listen to Risk somewhat regularly pitched in to support us over at Patreon, all of that would just evaporate overnight. You can get an ad free feed of the podcast. You can get hundreds over 300 now. Bonus stories. There's storytelling lessons on video, there's the check ins with me. I'm about to do the all another one and most importantly the knowledge that you're a part of this community. You're helping keeping it going. So join at patreon.com risk or up your donation if you can if you're already there. Or you can make a one time donation at PayPal me riskshow. Another way you can support is by giving us a five star rating and a nice review over at Apple Podcast, Spotify or podchaser. Those also help more than you might know. So thank you so much everyone and today's the day. Take a Risk.