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- [00:00]
Kevin Allison
Hey, folks, this is Kevin. On this week's episode of Risk, the Best of risk, number 32, you'll hear Ezra Holmland.
- [00:09]
Ezra Holmland
I'd hear the students between classes in the hallways like, oh, he was sleeping with her. Oh, he was fucking her. Oh, I mean, it was going way better than I ever imagined.
- [00:22]
Kevin Allison
That and more. But first, you might have heard me talking before about my friend Adam Griffin and and his ADHD coaching. Adam is my own ADHD coach and he's teaching me techniques for pausing to see my past steps and think through my future ones. To coach myself right out loud when it would help me to do so. To develop habits for moderating my impulsivity, to experiment with different kinds of to do lists or organizational systems, to reframe the beliefs that run through my head kind of automatically out of habit. And we just get to talk through game plans on this area of my life or that area of my life in a way that helps bring clarity and inspiration for me. You can make Adam your ADHD coach over at ADHD brains with a z.com or you can email him directly at AdamDHDBrains.com that's brains with a Z.
- [01:38]
Ezra Holmland
We'll be right back.
- [01:41]
Kaley Cuoco
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- [02:09]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
Kaley Cuoco here.
- [02:10]
Ezra Holmland
Sorry to interrupt your music great artist.
- [02:12]
Kaley Cuoco
BT Dubs, but wouldn't you rather be.
- [02:14]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
There to hear it live?
- [02:15]
Kaley Cuoco
With Priceline, you can get out of.
- [02:17]
Ezra Holmland
Your dreams and into your dream concert. They've got millions of travel deals to.
- [02:21]
Kaley Cuoco
Get you to that festival gig, Rave.
- [02:23]
Ezra Holmland
Sound Bath sonic experience you've been dreaming of. Download the Priceline app today and you can save up to 60% off hotels and up to 50% off flights.
- [02:31]
Kaley Cuoco
So don't just dream about that trip. Book it with Priceline.
- [02:34]
Ryan Reynolds
Go to your happy price. Priceline.
- [02:37]
Ezra Holmland
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have.
- [02:48]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
One of your assistant's assistants switch you.
- [02:50]
Ezra Holmland
To Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3.
- [02:58]
Kaley Cuoco
Month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full terms@mintmobile.com this message comes from Greenlight Ready to start talking to your kids about financial literacy? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app that teaches kids and teens how to earn, save, spend wisely and invest with your guardrails in place. With Greenlight you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications. Join millions of parents and kids building healthy financial habits together on Greenlight. Get started risk free@greenlight.com Spotify now here's the show.
- [04:23]
Kevin Allison
Hello folks, this is Risk, the show where people tell true stories they never thought they'd dare to share. I'm Kevin Allison and this is the Salsa Orchestra behind me now. And this is the Best of risk number 32. This might be the most challenging and definitely worrisome year I've ever lived through through. And when I'm recording this, it's still March. That's why I am so grateful that we are going full steam on the show. We're at our 32nd best of risk episode here and we've got all kinds of new episodes. We've got tour dates happening again this spring and summer in Atlanta and D.C. and Philly. By the way, tickets are always at risk-show.com live and I'm teaching a new and improved version of my old eight week long storytelling workshops, but now online. I'm especially excited about the workshops because I know I'll be sharing quality time each week with caring people, being authentic and reflective, becoming friends and laughing and crying together. Let me just say if you've heard certain lunatics running the country saying that empathy is weakness, that empathy is a bug in the system of our society. We are here at risk to fight that way of thinking. Thinking we are here to prove that wrong. So don't forget to share certain stories or certain episodes with people. And if you want to hop into one of my storytelling workshops, I'm going to be teaching one starting in mid April, another starting in mid May, and one starting at the beginning of June. But come August, I won't be able to teach them for United States time zones so easily. So email me at kevinrisk-show.com for information. Now in a little bit we're going to hear from Wanda Wilson Bowser. Her story comes from our Holiday Stories episode at the End of December. So don't be surprised by some Christmas music in that one. But first, a story from Ezra Homeland, who you can find@ezraholmland.com and here he is now with a story we call Jimmy side Pocket, Junior class president.
- [07:40]
Ezra Holmland
So, several years ago at Thanksgiving, my cousin, he looks across the table at me and he says, you almost made it into the high school curriculum. All my family members kind of laughed. Inside, they all knew what he was talking about. See, my cousin, he works for one of those companies that decides what goes into the high school curriculum, what goes into the books. And he explained that when the topic of free speech came up, that my case came up for possible inclusion, he said it was pretty fun to raise his hand and say, yeah, that was my cousin. Unfortunately, I did not make it into the high school curriculum. And maybe that was for the best, because, to be honest, I still don't know how I feel about all that. It happened during my junior year of high school. I was junior class president, and I was a very presidential young man. This all took place at Centennial High school, Portland, Oregon, 1995. So, first day of my junior year, first day of being class president, I showed up to school with this huge fresh black eye. I'd gotten punched out at a punk rock show. And I was wearing this T shirt that just says, vacuuming sucks in big black letters. Now, the student activities director, he was not impressed with my sense of professionalism. And I quickly learned that I was not impressed with the job of being junior class president. We decided things like the theme for the winter formal, how pep rally should go, ideas for Spirit Fridays. These were things that I had a very limited interest in, to say the least. And my attitude probably showed that. First line of my speech was, most of you know me. Some of you want to beat me up, and I want to be your junior class president. And I won. I actually fucking won. Kind of surprised everyone, including me now understand I wasn't a complete nihilist or anything. I still cared about some things. I still had good grades. I cared about what my friends and my family thought about me. I wasn't a sociopath or anything. I just didn't care what the world at large thought about me. It was one of the best gifts that the universe could have ever given me in high school. So, junior year, class president, it was a slow start. First couple months of school, not much happened. Honestly, the whole class president thing felt rather pointless. It was just a nice accolade for a college application. But a few months in, I actually had the chance to start being presidential. The whispers started slowly. I started hearing them in physics class and then in trigonometry. The band kids were whispering. I wasn't in band, but I knew a lot of the band kids. And the band teacher had been absent for a couple of weeks and so had one of the senior girls in band. So I started asking around. Every band kid that I asked had a different anecdote, a little interaction that they'd seen between the band teacher and the student. Now, each story on its own, it wouldn't have proved anything, but all 40 stories together, it became evidently clear that they were having a sexual relationship. And the principal. The principal had gone down and stood in front of the band class and explained that Mr. Dyer is going through some personal things and that he'd be taking the rest of the month off from school. Now, obviously, that was a lie. And as class president, I thought I should set the record straight. So I went home after school that day, and with the help of a couple of friends, I put together an underground newspaper titled the newspaper the Goons of Hazard. I wrote the lead article, titled it, Do I Get an A? I wrote under the pseudonym Jimmy side Pocket. And I talked about how teachers probably shouldn't be sleeping with their students in high school, that it didn't set a great precedent. You know, we had some other amazing articles like Making Smoking a School Sports. You could get a little cigarette pin for your letterman jacket. Real high brow stuff. So I made 50 copies of the paper, two pages stapled together, and I stuffed those into my backpack and I showed up to school half hour early the next morning. I slid a few copies into this bathroom, a few copies into that bathroom. A few copies here, a few copies there, A few copies into the locker room. Then the first bell range school started, and it didn't take long. By third period, there were copies everywhere. Kids were making copies left and right. Even the teachers were reading it at this point. I'd hear the students between classes in the hallways like, oh, he was sleeping with her. Oh, he was fucking her.
- [13:14]
Kevin Allison
Oh.
- [13:15]
Ezra Holmland
I mean, it was going way better than I ever imagined. And it didn't take long for the school administration to figure out who'd written it. I was in fourth period math class, and the school security guard comes into the room, points at me and he says, you come with me. Well, they'd figured out who Jimmy side Pocket was. I was a little bit scared. So I get up and I follow him down to the principal's office. The principal is there, the Vice principal and the student activities director. And when I walk in, the principal, he says, are you Jimmy side Pocket? I kind of smirked, you know, figured there was no way out of this one. So I said, yeah, I'm Jimmy side Pocket. And then the principal just unleashed on me, you have no idea what you've done. Do you know what slander is? Do you know that Mr. Dyer can sue you for slander? And I thought, uh, oh, maybe I flew a little too close to the sun on this one. But then I asked him, he's like, where is Mr. Dyer then? And there was this pause between them, and it lasted just a little too long before the principal said, Mr. Dyer is going through some personal things. And that is all. And they called my mother, and she came down to pick me up. And then they told me that I was suspended for two weeks, that I was no longer junior class president, and because I'd broken so many rules that I was facing possible expulsion. On the car ride home with my mom, I told her, my mom, I really think the band teacher was sleeping with one of his students. And my mom said, well, then you did the right thing. So that night after dinner, telephone rang. This is back in the time of Landlines. And it was for me. So I pick up, say hello. And this voice says, hello, Ezra. My daughter goes to school with you, and I work for the Oregonian. That's the big newspaper in Oregon, the big state paper. And he says, I was wondering if you could tell me about what happened to Circumstances school today. So I tell him all about it, and then he asked, would it be possible if I could come over to your house and do an interview with you? So I asked my folks, and they say, yeah, absolutely. So a couple hours later, this guy shows up, and he's brought a photographer and a lighting crew, and they take pictures of me and my family sitting on the couch. And then he does this big interview with me, and I tell him about what happened, what I'd heard, why I'd written the newspaper, the punishment that the school had given me, the whole story. The interview lasted about an hour. And at the end, you know, we stood up, shook hands, and he told me, you're going to be in tomorrow's newspaper. And I thought, all right, all right. Looks like Jimmy's side pocket is back. So the next morning, I wake up early, and I go out to the mailbox, grab the paper, and I go inside and I set the newspaper down on the dining room table. And there I am on the front page, a picture of me and my family sitting on the couch. And then I read the article. Turns out that the parents of that student, the one who'd been absent, well, they had filed statutory rape charges against the band teacher. And the school administration had been trying to keep it quiet. Looks like I wasn't gonna get sued for slander after all. And then the phone, it just started ringing non stop. By noon, I was doing TV interviews with all the local news stations out in front of my house. And, oh, I was hitting back. You bet I was hitting back. I was talking about losing my presidency, about trying to do the right thing, the school punishing me. You bet I was hitting back. So that night, I made all the local evening news broadcasts. There I was, on tv. And then the phone really started ringing. I mean, non stop. People were calling me from across the state to congratulate me for being a brave young man. And the next day, it was even worse. I did more interviews with other newspapers. I even did an interview with a college law review journal. The phone was just ringing and ringing. And at first, I'll admit it, I liked the attention. I did. I'd never experienced anything like that before. But very quickly, it all just became really overwhelming. And I started to realize, like, I don't think I like the spotlight. But then. Then a movie producer called me, said she'd read about me in the newspaper, that she was in Portland making a movie based on a very similar topic. And then she asked me if I wanted to be in it. Of course, I said yes. You know, I've always been interested in how movies were made. And two days later, I was on a movie set shaking hands with Angelina Jolie. Movie sets are crazy places, you know, they're just full of people who just crave attention. And that's kind of the exact opposite of what I wanted at that point. But I did end up selling weed to a couple of the actors on the set. I did like that part. Movie's called Foxfire. Not a great film, really. Not a great film. But if you watch the trailer, you can catch a glimpse of old Jimmy's side pocket. And at home, man, when I got home, the phone, it just kept ringing and ringing. More interviews made the front page of the Oregonian again. And this is in the span of a week. You know, I was really starting to feel overwhelmed. Now, the school district, they were taking some hits, some serious PR hits. And the principal, he calls me up and says, hey, hey, hey. We'd like to meet with you tomorrow. So the next day, I'm back in the principal's office with my mother. And the principal is there and the vice principal and the student activities director. But now there's also a superintendent and a lawyer. And the principal, he starts in, hey, I just wanted to say that we're sorry about the misunderstanding, and we'd like to let you know that you're no longer suspended and that you can have your class presidency back and you can come back to school tomorrow if you like. And I'm just sitting there thinking, what happened to getting sued for slander? What happened to them? That. And I was just starting to fill up with rage. I mean, filling up. So I let him have a little bit of my rage. I was like, wait a minute. Wait a minute. What? You scare the shit out of me. You threatened me with a lawsuit while trying to cover up all his shit. And now, now that you got caught, you're like, oh, you're not in trouble anymore. You're supposed to be the adult here. You're supposed to be the role models. What kind of lessons are you trying to fucking teach me here? What kind of lesson is this? Fuck off. Even my mom's like, simmer down, young man. Simmer down. And they all just sat there in silence. And I do have to say, when you're 16 years old and you can tell someone in authority, someone in direct authority over you to fuck off without any repercussions, that feels pretty good. That feels really good. So we left the office, went home. And the phone, it just kept ringing and ringing. And I'm starting to reach critical mass. I don't want to talk anymore. I don't want any more of this attention. And that evening, my older brother, he's 19, graduated, but still living at home, he says to me, hey, we should get back into fly fishing. And my older brother, I think he could tell that I was starting to feel really overwhelmed. Our dad had taken us fishing as kids. And my older brother says, let's just drive out to the Deschutes tomorrow. We'll borrow Dad's waders and gear and we'll go. And that's exactly what we did. We went fishing. I did not go back to school the next day. And it was wonderful, wonderful. We didn't catch anything but standing in the middle of the river, oh, God, that felt so good. It was just a reprieve from everything. And that evening when we got home, the phones just ringing and ringing. And one of the phone calls that night, it was a lawyer from the aclu. Lawyer told me that she'd read all about me in the paper and that what I had done was great and that we had a real case on our hands that we could fight for student free speech rights and that the case was substantial, that it was significant. But at this point, I was just done talking. I didn't want to be the spokesperson for student free speech rights. One of my biggest regrets to this day is that lawsuit probably could have paid for college and then some. But I just told her, look, I'm sorry, but I just think I want to go fishing. And I hung up. And that's exactly what I did. Next day, brother and I, we drove back out to the Deschutes, went fishing. I did not go back to school. And it was absolutely amazing. Now, of course, I did go back to school and continued to be junior class president. But for the rest of my junior year, I skipped every Thursday and Friday, drove out to the Deschutes and went fishing with my brother. And the school administration said nothing. Nothing. They didn't want any more trouble. And my GPA in my junior year, I got a 75. I went from a four point to a 75. But I was starting to learn how to catch trout on the Deschutes. Fair trade off, to say the least. I mean, I fell in love. I just fell in love with standing in the middle of a river. I remember one morning specifically, brother and I, we'd walked down the train tracks to our favorite spot. We called it the Boulder Patch. And I waded out into the river, waist deep, and I looked upstream and the caddisflies and the mayflies were bouncing off the surface of the water and the trout were rising and feeding on them. And the red winged blackbirds were singing their song in the bushes and the crickets were humming and there was an offspray overhead. And the whole place, it just felt electric. Like touching your tongue to a 9 volt battery. Electric. It was everywhere. Everywhere. And as I stood there, waist deep in the river, I knew that I'd found something special. Something that not everyone finds in this lifetime. I found a place where I was so excited every time I showed up. Like a little kid, just giddy. A place that let me forget about everything else. Rivers are amazing places. Even to this day, I still feel that same excitement when I wade out into the water. It's still just as electric like it was back in high school. And I feel so lucky to have found rivers and fishing in high school. Because high school, you know, it's a crucial time when you're trying to develop your Sense of right and wrong. And these microcosms of morality are constantly unfolding in front of you. And these moments they imprint on you. As a teenager, they imprint, you know, like the school administration covering up the sins of one of its teachers and intimidating me and threatening me and then getting caught and turning around and saying, like, oh, oh, oh, we're sorry. We made a mistake. You know, these things imprint on you as a teenager. And I wasn't without my own sin. Several months after the whole underground newspaper incident, as class president, I was put in charge of selling prom tickets. And it was easy to rig the numbers. I'd sell 20 tickets a day and fix the numbers, so I only sold 15. Pocket the difference. I stole 800 to $1,000 from the school, and I did it willingly. Thought the school had fucked me, so I was gonna fuck them. I mean, I was a teenager. I was in the beginning stages of developing my sense of morality. And when I look back on it now, you know, I don't feel great about stealing from the school, but at the same time, I don't feel bad about ruining Mr. Dyer's career whatsoever. There's some things that you just shouldn't do, you know, you just shouldn't sleep with your students in high school. So at Thanksgiving, you know, at the table with my family, all reflecting on the table, I said, could you guys imagine me being the advocate for student free space speech rights when I was 16? The ACLU would have had their hands full. I don't think they would have been ready for Jimmy's side pocket. The ACLU would have put me in front of a microphone and been like.
- [27:50]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
- [27:52]
Ezra Holmland
We support student free speech rights, but we don't think this is gonna work out.
- [28:16]
Ryan Reynolds
Christmas lights are twinkling and shimmering as far as I can see. The cheerful sound of sleigh bells and trumpets and other assortments of horns are piping through my car speakers. Overall, there's this feeling of good cheer and jovialness as I follow along this caravan of cars. At Christmas in the park, there are Santas and reindeer and angels on high. Baby Jesus in a manger is there with all the little forest animals. And as I'm driving, I can imagine everyone else in their cars, feeling the love, feeling the happiness of Christmas. Meanwhile, I am in my car, sobbing alone. It is December 2008, and nine days before this, I had just had a baby. Usually I would be with my extended family in Tennessee, celebrating, drinking, causing all kinds of ruckus and merriment. But I was on my own, trying to figure out how to breastfeed, how to sleep when he was sleeping, being petrified of sids and trying to navigate postpartum feelings. I remember when I first came home from the hospital with this baby thinking, okay, what am I supposed to do with him? You know, I've always had to study or take a test to show that I was competent with doing something. And they just handed me this whole person that I had birthed and were like, best wishes, good luck, congratulations. On top of that, there's the fear of missing out. I did not put up any decorations that year, didn't wrap a present. There's no Christmas tree. There's no baking going on, no smells of cinnamon or peppermint or evergreen or any of that good stuff that you relate to Christmas. So while the rest of the world is celebrating this holiday, I am feeling guilty because I don't have anything prepared for my son's first Christmas. And so I'm already feeling like, damn, I'm really failing at this mom thing. My husband could tell that I was not myself, that I needed a break, I needed to get out of the house. So he recommended, go for a drive. Clear your mind. I've got the baby. And so I took his advice and I did. And I came across this Christmas in the park that was in our town. As I'm driving through and sobbing in my car, feeling wounded and really confused and like I'm having this identity crisis. I thought, women give birth all the time. You know, what am I feeling? How do women get through this? And it occurred to me, oh, moms usually have their moms to help them navigate motherhood. And more than anything else, that Christmas, I wanted my mom. Growing up, I had difficulty connecting with my mom. She is a South Korean immigrant. She's very conservative, and I didn't always feel like she related to me at all. As this black and Korean kid growing up in this small southern Tennessee town, when I wanted to wear what the other girls were wearing, she would say, that's too tight. Take it off. If I wanted to paint my nails red, she would say, no, Wandia, red is too sexy. If I brought home anything less than an A on my report card, it was, why you not bring home A. Anything below? That was. I was. I was scared to come home with anything less than that. I always felt the weight of this pressure that I was meant to be a representation of how well she was doing as a parent to everyone else. My mom was kind and so sweet for school, bake sales she bakes cookies. She volunteered for PTA things. She attended every parent teacher conference. She took care of my dad's mom, Grandma Louise. Grandma Louise is ornery as hell. She does not like anybody. But she loved my mom, absolutely loved her. For me, she was formidable at times and incredibly difficult to please. And she was rarely vulnerable with me. Other girls talk about how close they are with their mom and how they can tell their mom anything. And I just could not imagine sitting and having a heart to heart with my mom. It was very difficult, it seemed like, for her to just say, I love you. I'm proud of you. I know my mom loved me, and she proved her love to me through her actions. And there was no other time that she demonstrated that love for me more so than Christmas time. Even after I left home to go to college, I made sure that I went home every Christmas because my mom made the holidays happen. She and my dad made this special day of Christmas shopping where me and my sister, we could not go. We had to stay at me and Grandma Louise's house for the entire day. And they would shop till they dropped. And they did a really good job of hiding those gifts because I still don't know where they hid those present. So every Christmas morning, it was a surprise, you know, what we were getting. You know, usually during the year, my mom, she would cook Korean food. So our house usually smelled like ginger, garlic, onions, kimchi. For Christmas dinner, though, my South Korean mom became a Southern big mama. I mean, she was, like, cooking up, you know, the turkey and the dressing with the giblet gravy. You know, it's real Southern stuff. If you have the giblets in the gravy, you know, we were doing sweet potato casserole with the toasted marshmallows, collard greens seasoned with ham hocks. Had to have the chitlins. Not a fan of the chitlins, but again with the theme, had to have the chitlins. And my mom would throw down in that kitchen. We would decorate the Christmas tree with the same ornaments every year. She kept every crappy Christmas ornament that my sister and I made. You know, the red and white beaded candy canes and the paint handprints, you know, cotton ball Santas, all that good stuff. As I got older, I remember comparing my handprints to the little handprints and my mom saying she couldn't believe how much I'd grown. And even though I didn't recognize it then, but I know it now, she was giving me that look that Parents give their kids when they just cannot fathom how this tiny person that they brought into the world is now this adult person that is comparing their handprints to the handprints of their four year old self. So the last Christmas that my mom was alive was the very first Christmas that I ever missed at home. It was December 2006. I was living in Florida, working at an internship and I could not afford to go home. Christmas Eve I went to work because I need a distraction from being homesick. All I could do was imagine what I was missing. I imagine opening gifts on Christmas morning and being genuinely surprised with the gifts because again, they hid them very well. Even when we were adults coming home, I missed going over to Grandma Louisa's house and comparing our gifts to what our cousins got. And the loudness of my dad's three brothers and four sisters, all rabble rousers, you know, the drinking, the loudness, the chaoticness, how warm and fun it was. And you know, my mom making sure that everybody, even though we were at my grandma's house, my mom really running the show and making sure everybody was comfortable and had what they needed and you know, really felt the Christmas cheer. So during a work break I called my mom and in the background I could hear family laughing and shouting at each other. And I'm saying, hey Mom, Merry Christmas. And she says, merry Christmas. What are you doing? I said, I'm working. I miss being at home. And she says, I wish you were home. I love you and I miss you. And I'm honestly surprised because I love you's do not come easy from my mother. And my heart hurts at the time because I miss her too. And I really didn't realize exactly why I felt so depressed. I thought it was just because I was missing the holidays at home. But I really missed my mom and how she made the holidays. I remember growing up, I was so ready to leave home and be away from her rigidness. What I felt was her judgmental nature. But it didn't occur to me until I was away from her that I realized how much I needed my mom. After we said goodbye, I immediately started to cry. And a coworker, you know, comes over, she pats my back and she says, everybody wants their mom on Christmas. So after that Christmas, I never got to spend another Christmas with my mom because she passed away in January of 2007. When she died, I really grieved the past we had. And I didn't realize it then, but I also grieved the future that we would never have together. There were so many memories with my mom that I was never going to get to make. There were so many things about her that I would never get to to know because there are so many questions that I didn't even know to ask until I became a fully fledged out adult woman who then had her own children and was married and was living a life. If I could have gone back and asked her, I would ask her, you know, who were you before you became my mom? What was it like for you to try to figure out motherhood for the first time? When life got difficult and it felt like it was too much for one person and you didn't have the answers, how did you figure it out? So Back to Christmas 2008. You know, back in that park where I am crying because I miss my mom and I'm wondering, how do women figure this out? It dawns on me, you know, I am the mom now. My mom didn't have a guide to raising me. She figured it out as she went and I had to do the same thing. If I wanted Christmas magic for myself, if I wanted Christmas magic for my child, it was up to me to create that magic, to become that magician so that honestly, I could experience Christmas through my child's eyes. Because for me now as a parent, that's where the magic of Christmas really existed. My mom would have loved being a halmonie, which is the Korean word for grandmother. My sons, I have two now, they ask about the grandmother they never got to meet. I tell them how much she would have loved and spoiled them. You know, I have friends who are half Korean and Korean mothers become completely different people when they become a hominy. And I find myself jealous that, you know, my kids don't get to experience that. But that newborn, you know, back in 2008, he is now a 14 year old and he has a 7 year old brother. And I want to make the holidays as memorable and magical as possible for them. I want them to grow up and remember like, you know, all through the year. Of course I want them to know I love them, but especially at the holidays, I want them to carry those traditions. So even though they roll their eyes at me and they're like, really Mom? I noticed that they do, they do light up when I play that NSYNC Christmas album all the way through the first time because that signifies it's Christmas time and we have to watch Elf every Christmas. And at least parts of a Christmas story, when that 24 hour marathon happens, at least a scene, they humor me by posing for the pictures that go on Christmas cards. We wear Christmas pajamas on Christmas Eve. And every year we have gone home to Tennessee for Christmas. So recently, my boys and I, we were at Christmas at the park because that is another tradition. You know, I'm no longer driving through that park by myself, crying. We are driving to that park listening to NSync, the Christmas album, and we're looking at these festive displays and the music's going and we're sitting in the car enjoying each other's company. We're in this park and I'm talking to the boys and the oldest one asks, mom, how do you know how to do adult stuff? It seems really hard. And I try to be as honest and age appropriately vulnerable with my children as possible because I want to answer all of their questions while I am here. And I am able to. And so I tell them, well, boys, I usually don't know what I'm doing. You could not imagine how much I have to Google things to figure out if I'm doing it right or how I could do it better. And sometimes I still don't know if what I'm doing is right. And I feel like I'm not doing well. I feel like I'm doing it wrong, actually. And the youngest one says, really, mom, you're doing a really good job. Beyond the holidays, I will always want my mom, but I live to be the type of mother that will honor the magician that she was.
- [43:31]
Ezra Holmland
We'll be right back at the Home Depot. Spring Black Friday is here, and we've got 14 days of deals to transform your space. So what are you working on? How about a quick and stylish patio furniture update? And what's outdoor dining without a shiny new grill? Find a wide selection of grills under $300 like the next grill four burner for only $229 at the home Depot. Then add a little ambiance with string lights. Shop 14 days of deals during Spring Black Friday now through April 16th at the home Depot.
- [44:04]
Larry Dorsey Jr.
Do you know what really went down the night John Belushi died? Are you aware of how Tim Allen.
- [44:09]
Ezra Holmland
Avoided a life sentence in prison?
- [44:11]
Larry Dorsey Jr.
What about the events that led up to the deaths of Phil Hartman and Chris Farley? The obsessive killing of Dorothy Stratton? The real life murder that inspired David Lynch's Twin Peaks? The three conspiracies surrounding Marilyn Monroe's death? These stories and more are told in.
- [44:26]
Ezra Holmland
The new podcast Hollywoodland, where true crime and Tinseltown collide.
- [44:31]
Larry Dorsey Jr.
Hollywoodland is hosted by me, Jake Brennan, creator of the award winning music and.
- [44:35]
Ezra Holmland
True crime podcast Disgraceland.
- [44:38]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
Follow and listen to Hollywoodland wherever you.
- [44:40]
Larry Dorsey Jr.
Get your your podcasts.
- [44:42]
Ezra Holmland
Roll Baller Lonzo Ball for Buzz Balls ready to go cocktails take 12 buzz.
- [44:47]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
Balls just dropped their biggest blue balls.
- [44:49]
Ezra Holmland
Script says Biggie's Blue balls Lonzo take.
- [44:52]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
13 blue balls just dropped their biggest buzz Balls.
- [44:56]
Ezra Holmland
Let's try a vocal exercise.
- [44:58]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
Buzz Balls Biggies Blue Balls Buzz Balls.
- [45:00]
Larry Dorsey Jr.
Biggies Blue Balls Big balls just drop.
- [45:03]
Ezra Holmland
Get Blue balls this season with Buzz.
- [45:07]
Larry Dorsey Jr.
Balls please you're responsibly Buzz Balls available.
- [45:09]
Ezra Holmland
In spirit, wine and malt.
- [45:10]
Larry Dorsey Jr.
15% Alco Bavo and Buzzball this episode.
- [45:14]
Ezra Holmland
Is brought to you by the Nissan Armada Pro 4X. With a twin turbo V6 engine ready to propel your adventures up to 8,500 pounds of towing capacity to haul all your favorite toys in space for eight passengers. Nissan's most powerful car yet will chew up and spit out anything you throw at it. Learn more about the all new 2025 Nissan Armada at nissanusa.com Towing capacity varies by configuration. See Nissan Towing Guide and Owner's Manual for additional information. Always Secure Cargo we're back.
- [45:58]
Kevin Allison
This is Risk. This is Amaro Freitas behind me now and we just heard from Wanda Wilson Bowser who you can find a lot of the time over at the Risk Podcast Fans discussion group on Facebook now. You know, another thing I'm talking up a lot lately is another way Risk fans can help me build up a safety net savings for moving to Thailand. And that is for folks who don't want to take one of my eight week online storytelling workshops. You can do a one on one hangout with me on Zoom. We can just chat or I can listen to a story of yours and give you feedback or tell you a story of my own if you like. Or do ice breaking games. You know, the kinds that we do for our social events called what's yous Story or anything you might think of. These are going for a hundred bucks or more if you so choose. And you can email me about hanging out with me online on Zoom at kevin@risk-show.com now we're gonna hear three stories in a row folks. Alicia Brophy, and before Alicia, Mark Redmond, and before both of them, Larry Dorsey Jr. Now I'll tell you, after hosting risk for over 15 years, I think I'm getting better at having a gut feeling for when a performer has a lot of success ahead of them. And Larry's a good example. We invited him to tell Another story on the show minutes after he told the one you're about to hear. So here's Larry Dorsey Jr. Now with a story we call Catfishing with Dad.
- [48:12]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
So I was at a six story sex club in Thailand. I'm joking. I almost didn't make it to the show today. My dad had to give me a ride and I got an old school black dad. He's the kind of dude with no teeth but loves eating steak. He played in the NFL. He's like a really militant kind of dude. And on the way here, the car started making noises and I turned and looked at him and I was like, dad, what's that sound? And he looked at me and he goes, it's the sound of you not walking, motherfucker. So there I was, 14 years old with my 13 year old younger brother looking on the Internet for my dad's dick pic. We were looking on the Tinder of the early 2000s Craigslist casual encounters. And we were scrolling forward and we knew how it looked because we used to do like, you know, when my parents got divorced, it was a frat house kind of energy and we would do like the pig trough pee. All the men know when you go in a men's bathroom, you just pee all together. So we knew the veins in my dad's dig. We knew how it looks, right. You know, and so we were looking for it and we couldn't find. Was tough, it was difficult. We're going through Craigslist and we keep getting distracted by other people's posts. And to describe my house and the situation, peep it like this. We had dial up Internet. This is the early 2000s. So you hear that, you know, remember the noise, right? The modem was bigger than my torso. We were using the old school mouse as we scrolled and it was kind of chilly in the house because we like this was in San Francisco. So we like that weather that most people who go to California don't expect. Nice chilly refrigerator weather, we love that. And the house was, you know, a lack of a woman's touch. Not to generalize, but yes, women are much more cleaner than men and men are slobs. And it was just, you know, sweatpants and chilling and we were scrolling through Craigslist looking for my dad's dick. And so the reason we're looking for it is when my parents got divorced, my dad was having trouble dating. My dad was a really old school black dude. He has two dad, deep scars in his face and he grew up in the south. And so he had a lot of different cultural sensibilities than people in the Bay Area, you know, and when. And it's funny, because we saw him on Craigslist. That's how we knew that he was trying to find a date. We would see him on it, and we knew how to navigate it a little bit. And he would be like, are you guys sure you're ready for a stepmom? And we would go, as long as she got a fat ass. Because we were in elementary, we were. We had different minds. I don't know if you're familiar with San Francisco. Like, we were already going to pride festivals and parades, and we were going to Folsom Street Fair. We were crazy little kids. Like, kids in the yards would be like, nana, Nana. And me and my brother would be like, nana got a fat ass. Judy got cooties. Judy got booty. I don't know what y'all talking about. So we're scrolling, we're looking. We can't find it. We're like. And we knew he was going to come home. So we're like, okay. I look at my brother, okay, let's delete all the history. He's not good with computers, so we're gonna delete all the history. He won't know. We'll try again tomorrow, right? The next day comes around, we start going and looking through it again. And by this time, BBC was not a British news channel. It was an indicator if it was our dad or not, right? And he had a specificity. My mom wasn't Asian, but my dad was in San Francisco. There's a lot of Asian people. So my dad was looking specific for Asians. So it was like, BBC looking for an educated Asian woman, right? And my dad has a master's degree. So he was like, I'm looking for someone who, you know, who can, you know, we can have good conversations with. So my brother and I, we look and we go. I think. I think we kind of have that moment where we're like, I think this is. I think this is it, right? And we kind of look through it. We count the veins and shit. We're like, okay. And so we decided to respond. And my brother, like, we grew up as twins, so we had kind of like, this telepathy thing going on. So he's not my twin, but we grew up that way. And so before I could say anything, I look at him and he looks at me and he goes, Jackie Tran, 5 5, kinesiology major at San Francisco State University. And I was like, genius. We were smart little kids, right? So we write that down and we send it, and then we start plotting on how we're gonna respond because, you know, he's gonna probably ask for pictures. And at that time, I was just leaving my freshman year of high school, and I remember this girl who was a senior, and she used to dress really, like, sophisticated, and she looked like she was older. And I was like, oh, MySpace, she probably has one. Let's find it. We looked it up. We're looking, we're looking. We're like, okay. And my brother's. Look at him. He gives me a thumbs up. We start getting her pictures, right? Getting ready to. To send it to my dad. And my dad responds really fast. He was at work, so we weren't expecting him to respond so fast.
- [53:28]
Larry Dorsey Jr.
Oh.
- [53:29]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
And he was like, hey, send me a pic, right? And we were like, shit, what did we say? We wanted to play hard to get. So me and my brother and I, we were like, I kind of feel uncomfortable sending you a pic without knowing you. Could you send me a pic of how you look first? And my father responds. He goes, well, due to the nature of my ad with my penis in it, I thought a picture of you wouldn't be too much to ask for. And we were like, just, please, just send me a picture how you look. And he sends a picture, like, in a suit. We've never even seen the picture. Sends the picture, and we're like, wow. From nasty to classy. I like it. We start flirting with my dad. He said, oh, you like that, right? And we messaged him back with a picture, you know, and he goes, oh, I like your picture. And I was like, what else do you like? And he goes, I like a lot of things. What are you doing tonight? And I was all like, oh, tonight we're gonna be studying and thinking about you. And he goes, what are you gonna be thinking about? And we put your fat, black cock. And so we had to stop it right there because it was just too much because my dad was like, you should see it in person. And we were like, oh, okay, we're stopping. We stop. And we couldn't keep it to ourselves because we were laughing so hard. So I immediately call up my godbrother. I'm like, hey, bro, shit's going down. You need to come over here. And so he comes over the house. We show him what's been happening, the back and forth. And he was like, yo, I just got a new cell phone. Pops doesn't have my number. If it comes down to It. We could use this as Jackie's number. And we're like, that's a fucking genius idea. Right? And so over a span of weeks, we get to know my dad in ways we never thought possible. Yeah. Oh, his favorite color is green. Wow. I didn't know that. Oh, he has a dildo in his room. What the hell? We're finding all his sex toys. We're like. We're met. We're sexting with him, messaging him in all types of freaky ways. And we're. We're dying, right? We're just loving it. We're eating it all up. No pun intended. And. And we have a great. By the way, our father is an amazing father, and he was an amazing husband. The reason my parents got divorced was two of my uncles were brutally murdered. And after that, my dad just went into, like, an emotional, like, disconnection. And my mom. My mom was like, a spicy Latina, and she was just like. They were just, like, clashing. They couldn't connect. And that's pretty much what led them to the divorce. Just my dad's emotional unavailability. And so he was a great father. There was no weird trauma, no sexual abuse. None of that. None of that. It was. It was great. It was. Everything was consensual as parent and child. And so. Yes. And so he. He messages us after. You know, after this time, he messages us, hey, I'm actually. Because we were delaying meeting up with him. We kept delaying him. We kept trying to find ways to, like, extend the meeting dates. And we're like, how the fuck do we navigate this? And so he sends us a message going, hey, I just want to let you know that I'm really starting to catch feelings for you. And I was like, oh, no, me. I was like, fuck, this is not good. Because originally we wanted our dad to feel good because he would come home, and he was not having luck with dating. We wanted to, like. We didn't think of it so much. Catfishing wasn't a thing back then, you know? So we didn't think of it as a prank or anything. We thought of it as more as, like, trying to help our dad through the lack of, like, responses. And now it was getting. We were getting. I felt like a fucking CIA double agent, you know? I mean, I'm in too deep, man. I'm in too deep. And so. And so when he send that to us, I'm feeling bad. My brother is like, yo, what could we get out of this? He's like, let's see. Right let's see if we could get things out of him, right? And so my brother, or we messaged him together, and we were like, hey, your sons are probably so lucky to have you as a dad. You're just such a great person. And he goes, oh, those kids are troublemakers. And, you know, they're. They're not. If it was back in my day, I would dis. Discipline them the way it's supposed to be, but, nah, I can't do that. And then she was like, oh, they're just kids. You know, she. Us. They're just kids. You know, they're probably. You know, they're learning. And he's like, you're right. You know, I love my kids. I dedicate my life to them. And she was all like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I keep saying she, but yeah, yeah, you probably really spoil them a lot and buy them a lot of gifts, right? And he was like, I'd like to spoil you. And my brother looked at me and goes, video games, dawg.
- [58:20]
Kevin Allison
I'm like, bro, we're gonna blow our.
- [58:22]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
Cover if you ask for a fucking video game. Let us get the new Madden NBA 2K. Like, no, that's not gonna work. And so I was just like, yeah, I can't wait for you to fuck the shit out of me. And he responds like, I don't even wanna fuck the shit out of you anymore. I just wanna make passionate love to you. And that's when me and him looked at each other like, yeah, we gotta stop, bro. This is. This is getting fucking weird. And so we just cut it all the way off and ghost him no more. And I know, I know. And what, you want him to send us dick pics? What the fuck? Eat my ass from the back. Like, what the fuck? Okay. And so it was sad because he would come home from work before that and be like, you guys are about to have a stepmom, right? And we'd be holding our laughs in like, oh, shit. And then now he would come home and he was just kind of, you know, melancholy and not in the same space that he used to be in. And so the new Jordans came out. The new shoes, right? And my brother and I, we're like, okay, you know, maybe. Maybe he'll buy us those shoes. All right? So we go up to him, hey, dad, you know, the new shoes came out. You know, we've been. We've been on our best behavior. Do you think you could buy us those shoes? And he was like, hell, nah. I've been working Since I was four years old. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. My dad, just to let y'all know, my dad grew up in Texas in the 50s. So he picked cotton, literally. Like, you know those slave pictures, like with the little kids just looking like that and shit. My dad has those pictures, like real. I know that's not funny, but fuck, it's kind of funny to me. But it's like, because it's fucked up, you know. And so my dad, you know, he had a traumatized life. Like the shit you read about, like racial history and stuff, like my dad went through that shit and so. And he always looks at us, you niggas is light skinned and all, you know what I mean? Like, whatever, fuck that. But I'm cinnamon sugar. Anyways, so we're like, I wonder if he would buy the shoes for Jackie. We message him, right? And we go, hey, so sorry, had a family emergency. I disappeared, I apologize, right? And he goes, oh, I was worried about you. I'm so sorry about your family emergency. Is there anything I could do to help? And we're like, well, you know, we spent the last of our money, you know, we're a starving college student. We spent the last of our money on a flight back home, you know, we were wondering if we could get some shoes. And he goes, he goes, what kind of shoes are you looking for? And we put the Jordans. He goes, wow, my son sons wanted those shoes. And we go, wow, you're such a good dad for buying your sons those shoes. And he goes, well, you know what, I'll buy you those shoes and take you out to dinner. And we put our favorite restaurant. And he goes, oh, that's my son's favorite restaurant. So now he's happy. We notice that he's happy and he gets all ready, he gets dressed up and you know, like an old school black dude, he got the feather in the hat, the boom boom, putting all the spray. He gives us $100 each. He's like, here, you guys, take some money, you know what I mean? Have a good, I'm going to be gone for a little bit. Have a good time, right? Once he leaves, we immediately call a taxicab, right? But the taxi cab is taking a little longer. So he gets to the restaurants like 30 minutes before we arrive, right? So we're riding in the taxi, we get there, my God brother's with us too, because we had gave him the cell phone number of our godbrother. So we're contacting him through that and he's blowing the Phone up right now. Because it's been 30 minutes. He's blowing the phone up and, you know, cell phone minutes back then before 8pm so he was willing to risk it. He's like, right. And so we get to the restaurant, and my brother and I, we tell my godbrother to wait outside. When my brother and I walk in and we see him, he's, like, sitting right in front, and he looks at us, and he had a newspaper, and he looks at us, he goes. He's waving his hand. Just get out. Get out. Leave.
- [62:11]
Kevin Allison
Go.
- [62:11]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
Right? Cause he's thinking that we followed him or something like that, right? Because we're, you know, we're class clowns at school. And so we walk in and just sit in front of him. We don't say a word. And we're holding. We're, like, biting our tongues. We're like, don't laugh. Don't laugh. Please don't laugh. Please don't laugh. Please don't laugh. And so we sit down. We sit down in front of him, and, you know that meme or that gif with the person who's doing, like, there's all types of math and equations behind them, and they're trying to make that connection. He hits one of those, and then he goes, you motherfuckers. Right? And the whole restaurant turns. Look, we're the only black people in the restaurant, right? So they all look like, what's going on? And the waitress kind of looks and realizes that it's our dad. And right before anybody could say anything, my brother goes, are you still gonna buy us those shoes? He didn't buy us the shoes, but he did buy us dinner. And my godbrother came all, you know, shy and, you know, and he bought my godbrother dinner as well. And he ended up getting off of Craigslist, but he ended up marrying my stepmom, a Japanese exchange student. And I have a wonderful little sister who he treats and spoils like a princess. And my dad is happy now. And this Christmas, he will be buying my little sister a pair of Jordan shoes. I'm Larry Dorsey, Jr. Thank you so much.
- [63:39]
Larry Dorsey Jr.
I'm Jon Bon Jovi, and I want to talk to you if you're one of the millions of kids who's going to run away this year. Now, maybe you've got a bad situation at home. Maybe you think being on your own is the answer to all your problems. Well, listen, run away and you'll be living on a prayer. See, out on the streets there's nothing there's nothing to eat. There's no place to sleep. There's nobody to help you. There's nothing. Call Covenant House. They can help. That's 1-800-and- keep dialing 9. Remember, the street is tough.
- [64:05]
Ezra Holmland
It's tougher than you are.
- [64:08]
Larry Dorsey Jr.
So this was 1981, and Covenant House was in Times Square. It was for homeless teenagers. And the Times Square today is like Disney Hard Rock Cafe. It was not like that in 1981. It was the center of the pornography and prostitution district. In fact, Rolling stone magazine in 1981 called it the sleaziest block in America. And it was. So this is where I was. But I couldn't have been happier. I couldn't have been happier. And they put me on a floor at Covenant House to see with 40 homeless teenage boys. These boys were all from the poorest parts of New York City. They were all African American and Hispanic kids. They came from dysfunctional families. A lot of them had been coming out of prison. Some of them had been in many, many different foster homes. And that's where I first met Tony. Tony was from the projects in New York City. He was like a typical Covenant House kid. African American from the city, from the projects, dropped out of high school, dysfunctional family, no job skills. And I was assigned to Tony to be his counselor. And I would talk to him and I would help him look for jobs. I would talk to him about his problems. And I liked him. He had, like, a really fun personality. He was very likable. But I remember a senior counselor who had a lot more experience in me saying to me, I can see you like this guy, and I understand why he's very likable. But I have to tell you, Mark, he's involved in some very bad things out there in Times Square. So be careful. And I had no reason at all to doubt this woman. But I liked him. You would come into Covenant House, and every day there would be incident reports up anything bad that happened in the prior 24 hours, and including anybody who was banned from covenant house either 30 days or forever. So I came in one evening shift, and sure enough, there's Tony's name up on the board, and he's banned from Covenant House for life. He apparently come in the day before, blasted out of his mind on what was called angel dust, which we know today as pcp, and flipped over furniture and tore the place apart. So Tony was gone. And I felt bad because I really liked him. I thought, well, that's too bad. You know, I guess I'll never See him again. Six months later, I'm walking through Times Square. I'm on my way over to Covenant House. Times Square then had all these strip clubs. And you would hear young men out in front of those strip clubs all the time with flyers, handing out flyers. And they'd say, girls, girls, girls. Come on in and see the pretty girls, girls. You would hear this all the time. It was like background music. So I'm waiting across the street, and I hear girls, girls, girls. And somebody sticks a flyer in my chest, and I look up and who is it? But it's Tony. And he looks at me, and I look at him. He's mortified. He puts the flyers behind his back, like, hoping I didn't see see it, you know? And he's like, hey, Mark. And I'm like, hey, Tony. And he was like, how's Covenant House? How's Dudley? How's Patty? He starts naming all the different counselors, you know, And I'm like, they're good, they're good. And I just can't wait till the walk sign, you know, because it was so awkward. So, sure enough, I hear the walk sign, sign. I said, tony, take care. And he said, bye, Mark. You know, say hello to everybody at Covenant House for me. And I walked away thinking, well, I guess that's the last time I'll ever see Tony. Four years later, I'm out of Covenant House. I'm going to grad school at New York University. I'm living in Greenwich Village. I'm at a party in Greenwich Village. It was a fundraiser. It was a priest who was trying to start shelter for homeless teens in the Bronx. So I'm at this fundraiser. A lot of my Covenant House friends are there, and I hear this booming voice across the room. Anybody here know Tony Reynolds? It was a priest. It was a priest. His name was Father Jim Joyce. He was a mountain of a man. He was about 6 foot 5, 300 pounds. He was huge. And he had volunteered a couple Covenant House. So we yell, I was the buddy of mine. He knew Tony, too. We yell, yeah, we know him. So Father Jim comes lumbering over, and he said, I'm working as a chaplain at Rikers Island. And I met Tony. And he said that no one. He has no family to visit him, or his family refuses to visit him. But he used to live at Covenant House, and it would be great if somebody from Covenant House could go visit him in prison. So first of all, you got to remember, in 1981, there were 15,000 prisoners in Rikers Island. Somehow this priest meets Tony out of 15,000 and somehow comes to the same party and yells his name out. And I hear it, but it happened. Pretty incredible, but it happened. So my friend and I said to Father Jim, we'll go. We'll go this weekend. We'll go see him. So that Saturday, he and I, my buddy and I, we jump in a car, we go to Rikers. Getting into Rikers island takes hours. You got to take a bus. They fingerprint you, the dogs sniff you, they pat you down, they fingerprint you again. It takes, you know, two or three hours just to get in there. So you finally get in this big visiting room, and there's scores of these men. They're dressed in olive drab prison gear, and everybody's sitting at the table with family members. So Tony walks in, and he's got this look on his face. He's looking around like, who is here to see me? I don't think, at least then they even told the prisoner who was there. I think they said to Tony, hey, there's people out there to visit you. I don't think there's that. Hey, Mark Redmond's here. So anyway, he sees us. Oh, he's so happy. He's so happy. He comes over. Oh, I can't believe you visited me. This is great. So anyway, we're laughing and we're reminiscing about Covenant House. And I finally said, so, listen, what are you in for? So he said, well, like everybody else here, I'm in here for drugs, Dealing drugs. So I said, what's your sentence? Well, I got a sentence. They're going to ship me upstate, and I'll be going up there in a few months, few weeks, and it's a two to three year sentence. So I said, listen, here's my address, you know, and if you write to me, I'll write back to you. So anyway, he did a good two or three years, and he would write to me, and I would write back. And he got out. So he got out, he contacted me, and we got together, and we would always meet at Ray's famous pizza on 48th street and 8th Avenue. And he would always say, our prison was so bad. It was so terrible. He'd say the same thing as, I am never going back to prison. Oh, I'm going straight. Well, he would always go back to prison, you know, Then I'd get a letter, a couple of months later, I'm back. And then it'd be a different prison, you know, and so. And then he'd get out. And he'd say, oh, I'm never gonna go. And he'd go back to prison. So this went on for like 12 years. In jail, out of jail, in jail, out of jail. I wish I had kept all the letters that we exchanged. I only kept one. And this letter I have. I'm going to read a few lines. It's dated June 18, 1993, from some prison in upstate New York. I read a few lines. Hi, Mark. How are you and your lovely family doing? Mark, this letter is to let you know I will not be calling you for some time because I've been calling you too much and I know your telephone bill is going up and not down. I'm saying this to you and your family because I do care about you all, and I know you all care about me as well. You can also see I do need you and your lovely family in my life because my family is not looking out at all for me. As of right now, I'm trying real hard to correct myself before getting released from prison. This time around, I'm getting too old and too tired to keep on doing the things that lead me to prison. I must get my priorities in order. Order deciding what I value most. I've concluded that I value freedom more than anything else. I miss affection more than I miss sex. That's word. Just a note from a loved one means so much. While being in this situation, it serves as a reminder that I'm being thought about and loved by somebody. Write back soon as you're able. And please send me the Little Debbie's I asked you for. I really got a craving for some of those. Until next time, take good care of you and yours. Love always, Tony. And I would do that. I would buy Little Debbie's cupcakes and wrap them up and send them to whatever prison he was in anyway, this one for couple more years. And then finally I would say by the mid-90s, he stopped going to prison, so at least he wasn't dealing drugs. But I knew he was still using drugs. We would agree to meet. I was living in Westchester County. We would agree to meet at Ray's, and he would show up about 50% of the time. It got to the point I would call him on his phone like, tony, I'm leaving now. It's gonna take me 40 minutes. I have my son with me. Okay, we gotta find parking and then I'll meet you. Oh, yeah, Mark, I'll be there. And he wouldn't show. And I was so frustrated. I can't Tell you how many times I'd be like, that's it, I've had it. I am not taking the bait anymore. This is ridiculous. But he'd call me six months later, I would go, and he'd show up and we'd have fun, we'd catch a movie, we'd get pizza. It was fun. It was fun to be with him. But I knew he was still, he was still involved in drugs, had to be. And then he calls me in 1999, so I've known Tony like 18 years by now. And he calls me, says, hey Mark, what are you doing next Thursday night? I said, oh, I'm free, I'll see you at Ray's. You know, he goes, no, no, no, I'm gonna give you a different address. I said, why, why, Why a different address? We always go to raise. He goes, well, I haven't told you, but I've been going to Narcotics anonymous for the last two years to a 12 step meeting, and I've been clean off of drugs for two years and it's my two year anniversary and I would really love it if you could be there. So I was shocked, I was shocked. But I said, okay, great, great, you know, I'll be there. So I showed up at the address, my son went with me. I think he was about 13 at that point. And we walked in and it was a church, he met me outside. It was the basement of a church, you know, and it was smoke filled basement. You know, if people have never been to a 12 step meeting, they should really go because it's raw, it's honest, it's real. You have people like Tony who have been sober for two years and people have been sober for two days and it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, right? They're all there to support each other. So they went through all the usual 12 step rituals. And at the end of the meeting, they reserved time for anybody whose anniversary it is. So. And they get to give a speech. So it was Tony's two year anniversary, so he said a lot of things that were really good. And then at the end he said, you know, when you're dealing drugs, you always think your drug dealing friends, they're always going to be there, right with you, you know, they'll be loyal to you. You know, if you get locked up, no matter. But once you get locked up, forget it. It's out of sight, out of mind. They forget all about you. But there was one person who didn't forget about me. There was one person who Would write to me. There was one person who would call me, one person would visit me, one person who would send me Little Debbie's cupcakes. And it's that man right there. And he pointed to me. And it was a great thing. It was, especially to have my son with me, you know, it was just. It was just a great moment. So shortly after that, Tony and his partner had a baby. And, oh, she was pregnant. And he called me and said, you know, will you come to the baby shower? So I said, great. I said, give me the address. And he said, I'll give you the address, but don't get out of the car. It turned out it was one of these, like, 50 story projects, you know, where, like, I could get shot or killed. So he came down and met me at the car, and we went up in the elevator, and I got into the apartment. It was not exactly a Jack and Jill shower. It was me, Tony and about 30 women. He went around to every woman and said, this is Mark Redmond. He's my best friend. Which really touched me. So I looked at his partner and I. She was really pregnant. I looked at her, I was like, you look like you're gonna give birth tonight. Sure enough, I left the party and she went into labor. He called me the next day. He goes, yeah, between contractions. She said, your friend jinxed me. So they had a little girl. They had a baby girl. And it's really sad. His wife relapsed eventually and became addicted to drugs and died pretty young. She died of either an overdose or some drug related illness, you know, and he asked me to be the godfather for the little girl. So I went to the church, and I'm her godfather to this day. And I was very touched he asked me to do that. But, you know, he raised her as a single parent. And I went to her middle school graduation, and if I heard it once, I heard it 20 times. All the women. All the women that kept saying to me, tony's a good father. Tony's a good father. I heard it over and over again, you know, which is really. It's hard to think of a better compliment. Then I got married. I got remarried. Tony came to the wedding. He brought a gift. I always joke, there are still relatives of mine who went to that wedding. I'm still waiting for the gift, but Tony. Tony gave for a gift. And then we moved to Vermont. We had a baby, we moved to Vermont. So it became much harder to see Tony, right? But I always said, listen, when you get to your 10 year anniversary. I'll come down for that. So the 10 years came. It was a giant snowstorm that hit Vermont. And I called him. I said, tony, I just can't make it. You know, I'm so sorry. I said, you know, And I always wondered, is he gonna make it to 10 years? But he was so dedicated to the 12 steps and to his meetings. Very dedicated. So then I said, listen, when you make it to 20 years, I'll come down. So short of 10 years later. I called him in November. I said, tony, isn't this your 20th anniversary? He goes, yeah. He gave me the date. I said, I'm coming. So sure enough, I took the train down there, got off at 125th street in Harlem. He met me on the platform. We went off to Soul Food, because you cannot get soul food in Vermont. And I went. It was like. It was great. It was. I. I was all these men and women, all of them struggling, you know, to overcome their addiction. Tony, it's his 20th anniversary. I was the only white male. There was one white female. She comes up to me and says, congratulations on your 20th anniversary. I'm like, it's not me, it's him. But it was the same thing. It was just wonderful. The support, it was. It was just a great thing. So anyway, last year was his. His 24th year, and it was on Zoom. And my wife and I, we dropped our son at college. We're driving back from Indiana, and I suddenly told my wife, we're in Ohio. I said, we gotta pull over and find a hotel. I gotta open up my laptop. Tony's Zoom 24th anniversary is about to start. So I did it from a hotel room somewhere outside of Cleveland. And the 25th is coming up. I have to go down for the 25th. And he lives in an apartment in Brooklyn with his daughter, who's grown now, and she has her own daughter. He even has his own business. He started a clothing line, forty Plus. He sells hoodies and T shirts and hats. When people say, what do you want for your birthday? I'm like, get me a 40 plus hoodie. Give me some of Tony's clothing. So it's an amazing friendship. You know, when you think about it, we text or call each other almost every. We have nothing in common. Nothing.
- [80:57]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
Nothing.
- [80:58]
Larry Dorsey Jr.
We come from two totally different worlds, but we're very close friends. Like, every morning I'll get a good morning from him, or, you know, have a great day, or I'll text him. You know, when I tell people the story about Tony, I was Thinking of this movie, this Japanese movie. I'm a big movie fan. And there was a Japanese movie in the 90s called Afterlife. And the plot of the movie is that after you die, there is an afterlife. It's not necessarily heaven or whatever, but there's an afterlife. But here's the catch. In the movie, you can only bring one memory with you into the afterlife. And it should be a memory that really defines you. So it shouldn't be like the day I got married or the birth of my child. It's like, what is that one memory that really is special to you? And I've often thought if I only had one memory to take with me into the afterlife, it would be being in that smoke filled church basement in 1999 and listening to Tony say, there was one person who didn't forget about me. There was one person who would call me and write me and visit me. One person who would send me Little Debbie's cupcakes. And that's the memory I would take into the afterlife.
- [82:33]
Kaley Cuoco
If this ends up on the Internet, my mother will find it. So, mom, if you're listening, turn it off now. If you're still listening, you can never bring this up to me. And you cannot tell my aunts. So I grew up with a father who is a quadriplegic. He has a disease that's very similar to muscular dystrophy. And so it was gradual. It started when he was 32. And it meant that my childhood, I watched as he slowly lose his ability to do things. So he no longer could drive, and then slowly no longer could walk, and then eventually could no longer hold things. And he's now confined to an electric wheelchair that he controls with his chin. And travel for him now is like if he can get the medical van to take him somewhere for a couple hours. And when I was 17, I googled his disease and I found out that it's genetic. And I suddenly have a ticking clock. I know that when I turn 32, I'm going to lose my hands and my feet. And so I tell no one. But I get obsessed with this idea that I have to live an entire lifetime in my 20s. Because when I turn 32, it's over for me. And I'm from a really small town. There's no real opportunities, there's no adventure. So I do the only thing I can think of. I just start to make lists. It's like a bucket list. But instead of things to do before you die, it's things to do before you lose your Hands and feet. And on this list were things like bungee jumping, skydiving, falling in love, traveling a foreign country. All things that someday I could look back on and be like, huh, I really did that. At 21, I had done none of it. I was living in a border town, working at a gnc, stacking vitamins, working minimum wage in some mall. And I was so excited when these two girls, we'll call them Betty and Jessica, they were baristas at the little coffee stand in the mall. They invite me to go with them to Mexico for a vacation. And Betty's husband was paying for the motel room, so I have a free place to stay. I'm like, oh, foreign country. I can check this off my list. So excited we go down the first day. I guess I should set the stage. This is Maybe the late 90s, maybe the early 2000s. There's gonna be a lot of maybes. I'm not gonna give any specific details. You will know why shortly. So we're in some unnamed town in Mexico, and we're walking down the main strip, and there's a lot of, like, spring break type clubs. And as we're going along, this guy comes up behind us, and he's like a real fast talker. He's a local. He says his name's Pancho. And Pancho's trying to get us to go to the his club. And he's like, yeah, we got an oceanfront view, and we've got a foam pit for the foam dance parties. It's like, every club here has all of those things. He's like, we've got bungee jumping. Okay, that's on the list. I have to do this. But it was, like, 80 bucks. And at this age, I don't even have a credit card yet. The cash I have is enough for some street tacos. Like, I have no way of coming up with this money. But I also know that, like, I have to do it, right? This is my opportunity in a decade. Nothing like this is an opportunity. Anyway, I got to do it. And so just out of desperation, I say, yeah, but the bungee jumping's free if I do it naked. The answer, guys, is always yes. So we make a little deal, and my friends think I am an idiot. And I think I'm so smart because I've agreed to do this jump while the club is closed. So who's really going to know? Like, my two girlfriends and Pancho. It's fine. So we go get to the club, and like I said, it's closed. So we go in. It's just this big, expansive, empty space, and there's a bunch of workers buzzing around in neon blue shirts. And in the center of the room is this round table full of businessmen, and they are gorging on a seafood feast. And Pancho introduces me to the mayor. He also introduces me to some other, like, politicians and figureheads and some businessmen. And it's not said what their trade is, but each man at this table has standing behind them, their own armed security guards. I got a little curious when I decided I was going to tell this story tonight. I was kind of curious where everyone ended up in this story. I did a little sleuthing, and Pancho and this club and that mayor are all mentioned in legal allegations for things that involve trafficking of substances and executions. So this is why we're being real vague, guys. So these are my new friends, and Pancho has told these guys about our little deal. So they're going to stick around for the naked bungee jumping. So we go out the side door to this patio area, and there's this big crane. And this is where I first lay eyes on Bungee Boy. And he's just this guy. He's like in his early 20s. He's American. This is his summer job. He's got a real boy next door vibe. And we make eye contact, and it's like, oh, I'm in trouble. He's really cute, and he's explaining how the whole thing works, and he's really charming. And I now have to strip down naked in front of him also. I recognize that right now you have all the same questions that I have, which is like, well, how does this work? Cause you're naked. There's, like, not a lot to offer. And there's probably, like, hooks. And it turns out you can be fully naked and they can still strap in your ankles. So he takes me over to this metal cage, and he has me sit in this plastic patio chair. And he gets down on one knee, and he's being so respectful, guys. He's, like, keeping his eyes lower, and he's cuffing my ankles in. And as this metal cage is raising, we're making small talk, totally pretending like all of this is super normal. And as we get higher and higher, I have a better vantage. And I can now see hundreds of club kids standing outside of this club. Because that whole time that we'd been inside with the Seafood Feast, these club kids had started to line up waiting for the club to open. And they see this crane cage thing coming up over them, and they're all like, what's that? And then they're getting glimpses of me and they're cheering and. And disposable cameras are getting pulled out. So I'm up there and I'm on the ledge and like, the whole deal had been, oh, I'm going to jump in front of my girlfriends and Poncho. But now we've added hundreds of club kids, disposable cameras, businessmen, and the mayor. But the truth is, I'm actually so terrified of the jump and stepping off that ledge, then I'm not even really thinking about the naked part anymore. I'm just really scared. And Bungee Boy, he's so sweet, and he's like whispering all these affirmations and he's like, you're so brave. You can do this. You can do anything. You've got this. I was like, yeah, Bungee Boy, we've got a connection. Like, he's not going to let me get killed. So I go ahead and I lean forward and I fall over the crowd. And wind is whooshing in places nature never intended. And I finally at the end of that court and I'm bouncing, and some of me is bouncing more than others. And then I'm finally just hanging. So that's the thing with bungee jumping. They don't tell you there's like a long period where you're just hanging. So I finally get brought down and I've really won the admiration of Pancho. And Pancho is a very powerful man. Everyone around him is just always kissing the ring. And we're now treated like royalty. Anything we want, free booze, free food, free professional massages, which had not been on my bucket list, but should have been. And Pancho has taken a liking to me, and so he's just gifting us anything he can to keep us around. He's even trying to get us to stay in the hotel he owns because Pancho doesn't work at this nightclub, right? Pancho owns this nightclub and he owns half of the town. And I tell my girlfriends, like, no, we cannot stay somewhere he has a key. But we do take Pancho up on a lot of the other offerings. Thing is, what I'm most interested in is Bungee Boy. And the truth is, Pancho doesn't really have the right to like me because one of the employees lets it slip. Pancho is married. And this explains why sometimes this one specific lady shows up. Pancho sends us off on four wheeling adventures down the beach, which I'm like, great. I get to check Four Wheeling Adventure off my list. Bungee Boy and I, we finally have, like, our first kiss behind the club. And he's like, no one can know about this. And I'm like, yeah, but really, like, Pancho's married. It's not fair if he likes me. And he's like, oh, no, no, you don't understand. And then he reveals a bunch more information. And I realize I have now cast myself as the main role in a telenovela because Pancho's married. Pancho also has a girlfriend. Pancho's girlfriend likes Spongy Boy. And Pancho's girlfriend, he's like, yeah, she made a pass at me. I didn't go for it. It's been really awkward. Pancho's kind of sensing what's up, and he has been making the entire summer just hell for me. And so it's like, oh, okay, I can't also come along and snub Poncho for Bungee Boy? And everyone at this club is always warning me. I'm like, you better. Better not be hanging with Bungee Boy. Better not see you with Bungee Boy. So I don't have much choice in the matter. I have to continue to accept the lovely hospitality that Poncho is offering and secretly sneak around with Bungee Boy. And so Bungie Boy and I, we are passing secret messages and everything, and we make plans to have a romantic dinner, and my girlfriends are gonna cover for me. And so we have, like, one specific street we're gonna corner, we're gonna meet at. And so he goes on his dinner break. I wait, like, 10 minutes, I lie and say I need to go get stuff out of my hotel room. And we meet up, and I'm so giddy. I've got butterflies. And we're holding hands. We're going down the street, and there's, like, a real freedom, you know, in just, like, the two of us finally. And it's really feeling like something more. And it's like, oh, my gosh, is this another thing I'm gonna check off my list? Like, I'm falling in love. And plus, he's already seen me naked, so we're, like, halfway to our relationship. And so we're going along, and suddenly we're passing this trinket stand. He grabs me and he shoves me, and he throws me in an alley and then shoves me behind a dumpster. And I'm so scared. He's being so rough with me, and I don't know what's happening. And it's just the two of us, and I'm terrified. And that's when I see two neon blue shirts pass by. Pancho had had me followed. So now Bungee Boy forget romantic dinner. Bungee Boy is really, truly terrified. Apparently, there had been some threats made in the past. And remember how I said I got a little curious where everyone ended up? I just learned that a couple years ago, Pancho ran over one of his employees forwards and backwards, and then took off on one of those four wheelers that he was always offering us. So Bungee Boy is truly terrified. He's like, you stay here. I'm going to run back, see if I can get there before Pancho learns of this, he takes off. And now I'm just in an alley behind a dumpster somewhere in Mexico by myself, and I can hear the sounds of, like, everyone else, like, partying and having a good time, and they have no idea what's happening in this alley. And, you know, I'm thinking about it, and I'm thinking about it, and I don't really know what to do, but I start thinking, like, well, maybe I can go back and, like, smooth things over with Poncho. Maybe I can fix this. So I start to walk back to the club, and before I make it to the club, Betty and Jessica cut me off. They have a taxi running. They had been at the club, and they're like, look, we were there. Poncho knows everything. Bungee Boy took off into the night. He's hiding. No one knows where he is. We just cleared out the hotel. Everything's in the backless taxi. Get in. We gotta go. We gotta get out of this town. We gotta get out of this country. So I get in the taxi, and Betty gets in the taxi, and it's actually Jessica who pauses, and she says to us, guys, look, I actually really love it here. And, yeah, all the scary stuff that's happening, it's kind of your problem. And I met a guy, too, and I don't have anything to go back to. Like, a barista job at the mall that I hate. I want to stay here, start over here. And we're like, no, no, no. Like, that's not actually an option. You have to get in this taxi and leave with us. She's not budging. And then we see neon blue shirts coming, and it's like, well, I'm already leaving him. I guess we're leaving Jessica, too. And so Betty and I get in that taxi, and we leave Jessica behind, and we head to the border, cross the border, and by that night, I'm just back to my old, safe life as if nothing had happened. I have to go back to shifts at gnc. It's a little different. Jessica isn't at the coffee stand anymore. I'm back. I'm stacking my vitamins, and I'm thinking about everybody because I don't have answers. I don't know what happened after I left. And then after about a week, Jessica rolls in my store, and right behind her is Bungee Boy. He'd been in hiding. He eventually found her and begged her to help him get back across the border. He's got no money, he's got no belongings, and she just dumps him here because she's like, you're Bungie Boy, your problem. And in the harsh fluorescent lights of a gnc, he's just some guy, you know, he's just a kid on the run from the Mexican mob, hiding in my vitamin store, hoping that his dad buys him a plane ticket home. And so I help him, you know, get in touch with his family and get to an airport and the whole thing. And he goes off and we never talk again. It's a couple years later, and I am in college now, and I'm in the dorms and a bunch of my little dorm friends, it's their first spring break ever, and they decide they're going to go to that town. And they invite me. And I say, oh, no, no, no, no, you don't understand. I'm not allowed in that town. And they listened to my story, and they laugh it off. And they're like, alicia, that was years ago, Jimmy. Thousands of tourists go through every weekend like bygones be bygones. And they're like, look, if it'll make you feel better, we won't go to that particular club and we won't stay at that hotel he owns. And I decide, okay, you know what? You're right. It'll be fine. It'll be fine. So I go, and it is fine. We go out that first night. We're going to these other clubs. And it's about 3, 4 in the morning, and I am enjoying a street taco, and a man in a neon blue shirt comes walking by, and he slows down, and then he stops. And under the street light, he takes a real good look at me, and he points and he says, I know who you are. And I drop my taco into that dirt and I bolt. And I run as fast as I can, literally across town through people. My friends have no idea what's going on. They literally just see me fleeing. And I ran all the way across town, up all the flights of stairs, and I get back to our motel room and I lock myself in. And the rest of the trip, my friends, they go clubbing and they go out and they have a good time, and I stay inside where I can just watch the telenovelas. I just want to end with this. I am now an undisclosed number of years, over 32, and I'm healthy. I have my hands, I have my feet, and I also have a very long list of things that I can look back on and be like, oh, I really did that. Thank you.
- [101:36]
Ezra Holmland
I get up.
- [101:39]
Larry Dorsey Jr.
But nothing gets me down.
- [101:44]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
Oh, you've got it tough. I seen the toughest song round and I know.
- [101:56]
Ezra Holmland
Maybe just how you feel?
- [102:01]
Larry Dorsey Jr.
You got to roll with the punches.
- [102:05]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
Just to get to what's real.
- [102:10]
Ezra Holmland
I can't just see me standing here.
- [102:12]
Larry Dorsey Jr.
I've got my back against a record machine?
- [102:17]
Ezra Holmland
I ain't the worst that you've seen.
- [102:21]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
I don't.
- [102:22]
Ryan Reynolds
You know what I mean?
- [102:27]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
Ah, you might as well jump? Well, you might as well jump.
- [102:41]
Kevin Allison
This is Risk. This is Aztec Camera covering Van Halen behind me now. And we just heard from Alicia Brophyl, who you can find@brophyandmiles.com Alicia is a writer for the hit show Yellowjackets, and we hope to have her on Risk again soon. Before Alicia, we heard from Mark Redmond, a longtime Risk favorite look for his beautiful memoir, which is called called Folks, don't forget that. Risk-show.com live is where you'll find all you need to know about our live show in Atlanta on May 8, in Washington, D.C. on June 7, in Philly on June 19, and in New York on June 26. And hey, if you're LGBTQ and you live anywhere near Rhinebeck, New York, I'll be teaching a weekend long workshop called Storytelling for LGBTQ Pride at the omega Institute from June 13th to the 15th. Look that up@eomega.org folks. On Thursday, we'll be rerunning a classic Risk story that's been a favorite of fans for years. The kind of story you'll never forget. It's called the Same Brand of Pervert, but that's Thursday. And, folks, today's the day. Take a risk.
- [104:29]
Ezra Holmland
Well, you might as well jump.
- [104:38]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
Go ahead and jump. You might as well jump. Go ahead and jump.
- [104:49]
Ezra Holmland
Well, you might as well jump.
- [104:54]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
Well, you might as well jump. Roll head in, jump.
- [105:02]
Ezra Holmland
Go ahead and jump.
- [105:06]
Wanda Wilson Bowser
Go ahead.