The Best of RISK! #35

Summary

RISK! – The Best of RISK! #35 (May 5, 2026)

Host: Kevin Allison
Stories by: Scott McMahon, Chelsea Dy
Episode Theme: Jaw-dropping, uncensored true stories about survival, trauma, addiction, and self-forgiveness.

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Brief Overview

This “Best of” installment of RISK! features two extraordinary true stories: Scott McMahon’s harrowing account of being wrongfully imprisoned in the Philippines and Chelsea Dy’s searing exploration of addiction, loss, and reckoning with painful responsibility. Host Kevin Allison curates and personally connects with both storytellers as they dissect the moments, catastrophes, and revelations that shaped their lives. The episode is an exemplar of the show’s mission: “Stories you never thought you’d dare to share in public.”

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Story 1: "Midnight in Manila" by Scott McMahon

[Starts at 03:25]

Scott McMahon, an American expat, recounts his ordeal of wrongful imprisonment and survival in a notoriously overcrowded Manila jail, illustrating the harsh realities and corruption in the Philippine justice system.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Life in Manila:
  Scott moved to Manila in 2009 with his family, working long construction hours. He befriended Yan, a Belgian neighbor, both of them being the only white foreigners in their residential area. The friendship unwittingly entangled him in a web of scams and legal drama.

• Yan's Situation Unfolds:

  • Yan’s wife, Dolores, is discovered to possess dozens of women’s passports and has a secret previous marriage—unsettling in a country where divorce is nearly impossible.
  • Discovering Dolores’s forged marriage to Yan leads to escalating conflict.

• Dramatic Arrests and Fallout:

  • Dolores orchestrates Yan’s arrest on false domestic violence charges, traumatizing Scott’s family (09:25).
  • Dolores then threatens Scott’s family, leading to further psychological distress.

“She would threaten them, especially my wife. She said, you should have never gotten involved in our problems. You’re gonna pay. You’re gonna wish you never got involved.”
– Scott McMahon [10:23]

• Scott’s Own Nightmare Begins:

  • Dolores files false rape charges against Scott; he is arrested on national television at McDonald’s, mere minutes before court for his counter-complaint (14:53).
  • In the Philippines, such accusations are considered strong evidence due to the "Maria Clara Doctrine"—the belief that a Filipina woman would not lie [17:59].

• Hellish Jail Conditions:

  • Scott is thrown into a single 880-square-foot cell with 300 inmates—sardine-style living, minimal food, bleak sanitation, and rampant death.
  • Medical care is essentially unavailable; inmates slowly perish due to starvation and untreated illness (23:35).

“Everyone sat on their butt and the person in front of you sat his butt on your feet and your hands were on his shoulders. … Like opening a can of sardines. That’s how people slept.”
– Scott McMahon [21:43]

• Life Inside – Survival and Alliances:
  • The “mayor” (gang leader) runs the cell. After an attempted attack, Scott earns protection—and a bed—by paying for the privilege (28:29).
  • Scott faces moral challenges—initially sharing food with starving inmates, until advised against “prolonging their misery.”

“Better them than you, right? … Life means nothing. So I had to change my whole mentality.”
– Gang leader & Scott McMahon [25:19]

• Endemic Corruption:
  • Police, prosecutors, and judges attempt to extort huge bribes to drop charges or expedite his case (30:08–33:41).
  • When Scott resists extortion, his family is threatened with violence—highlighting the lawless, predatory environment.

“You never know. Rape, murder … people come missing all the time, man.”
– Corrupt official [33:38]

• Despair and Hope:

  • Five days of utter panic when his wife and kids do not visit—he fears they’ve been killed in retaliation (38:13).
  • Relief when they reappear—profound psychological trauma persists.

• Resolution With International Help:

  • Media attention, the California Innocence Project, and the UN finally prompt the Philippine courts to give him a real trial after five years.
  • Scott is acquitted—his case became international news as the longest-held American in pretrial detention in a foreign country (44:45).

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On Extortion:

“Every six weeks, another cop would come in: five million pesos, drop your case … same thing every time.”
– Scott McMahon [31:19]

• On Mental Torture:

“Mental torture is the worst, man. I’d rather be physically tortured than mentally tortured like that.”
– Scott McMahon [39:11]

• On Institutionalization:

“The truth was, I was scared to go out because I’d been there so long … I was institutionalized.”
– Scott McMahon [44:20]

• Family Reunification:
  On returning home, Scott discovers the distance and trauma irreparably altered his children’s relationship with him, but playful reconnection eventually helped heal.

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[46:46] Interlude: Host Reflections

Kevin Allison reflects on the value of storytelling, quoting Alan Rickman:

“The more we’re governed by idiots and have no control over our destinies, the more we need to tell stories to each other about who we are and why we are and where we come from and what might be possible.”
– Kevin Allison [47:30, paraphrasing Alan Rickman]

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Story 2: "Post Mortem" by Chelsea Dy

[Begins at 52:12]

A raw, introspective narrative about addiction, privilege, complicity, and profound grief—tracing Chelsea’s journey from small-town prodigy to opioid dependent med student, and the deadly impact of sharing her addiction with the person she loved most.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Origins of Addiction & Privilege:

  • Grew up in an affluent, competitive, expectation-filled small town as a highly intelligent but bullied and chronically ill child.
  • Early drug and alcohol use provided both escape from trauma and a social outlet.

• Academic Success Amidst Chaos:

  • Despite addiction, excelled academically: “Graduated NYU with honors … wrote my 20-page honors thesis on a three-day cocaine bender.” [53:26]
  • Prescribed strong opioids for legitimate health problems, eventually leading to fentanyl dependency (55:44).

• Cycle of Relapse:

  • Multiple rehabs, sober living, and periods of hope; struggles to maintain sobriety despite outward “success.”
  • Describes mixing drugs for “landing gear” after coke binges, and how opioids undermined her capacity to function academically.

• Key Relationship – Alex:

  • Alex was her childhood friend, partner in addiction, and “partner in crime.”
  • After a stint in rehab, warned by others that rekindling with Alex would be mutually destructive—but their bond proves irresistible.

• Crucial Relapse and Growing Guilt:

  • On return to medical school, a white coat ceremony triggers relapse when she finds & chews old fentanyl (60:22).
  • Attempts to continue functioning—fails and cycles through further benders.

• Catalyst for Self-Destruction:

  • Introduces Alex to IV heroin use—teaching him the method that would later kill him.
  • Recounts the complexity of codependence and the relentless cycle of using, shame, and attempted redemption.

“I taught this person I loved the most horrible, dangerous, sinister thing that I had ever learned. And I taught it to him.”
– Chelsea Dy [73:31]

• Devastation and Aftermath:

  • Alex dies of an overdose five months after Chelsea’s last contact. She has managed five months sober.
  • Grapples with the trauma, survivor guilt, and both internal and external blame from friends and Alex’s circle.

• Processing Through Storytelling:

  • Chelsea never fully accepted her complicity until workshopping this story for RISK!
  • The realization becomes a turning point for genuine emotional healing fourteen years later.

“I have to forgive myself for taking away the most important thing in my own life.”
– Chelsea Dy [81:22]

“Not feeling feelings is not the same thing as not having those feelings.”
– Chelsea Dy [83:04]

• The Power of Narration:
  • Both Chelsea and Kevin discuss how the act of storytelling—as opposed to therapy or AA—opens new emotional dimensions and understanding.

“Having a built-in witness with this storytelling thing … someone who wants all of you, right?”
– Chelsea Dy [91:30]

• Chelsea’s Reflections on Community Reaction:
  • Strongly positive feedback from friends, family, and listeners after the story aired.
  • Chose to leave the episode public even against criticism to honor her own story and recovery.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Denial and Trauma of Addiction:

“Addiction is so insidious—it divides your own mind. It divides you from the people that you love. It allows you to sit next to your own denial and still behave in ways that hurt yourself and others.”
– Chelsea Dy [77:13]

• On Responsibility, Forgiveness, and Survival:

“I buried it for survival … I absolutely have to forgive myself for taking away the most important thing in my own life.”
– Chelsea Dy [80:03, 81:25]

• On Why Storytelling Matters:

“When a story is as told with as much heart and honesty and daring as yours today, people will have breakthroughs … the emotional truth was there.”
– Kevin Allison [94:22]

• Listener Impact:

“You’re saving the quality of life for people just by hearing that there’s other people out there that are as expansive and as interesting and as different … as outside the cookie cutter thing.”
– Chelsea Dy [93:39]

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Important Timestamps

• 03:25 – Scott McMahon’s story begins
• 14:53 – Scott is arrested at McDonald’s
• 17:59 – Explanation of the Maria Clara Doctrine
• 21:31 – Description of jail conditions
• 28:29 – Scott strikes deal with gang leader/mayor for safety
• 33:38 – Threats against Scott’s family recounted
• 39:11 – Mental torture and terror of his family’s potential murder
• 44:45 – Scott is released after acquittal
• 46:46 – Kevin Allison interlude/reflection on storytelling
• 52:12 – Chelsea Dy’s story (“Post Mortem”) begins
• 55:44 – Ongoing opioid prescription leads to fentanyl addiction
• 60:22 – Relapses at white coat ceremony
• 71:36 – Chelsea hiding evidence of using in anatomy lab
• 73:31 – Realization of complicity in Alex’s addiction
• 77:23 – Alex’s death and Chelsea’s grappling with guilt
• 80:03 – Self-forgiveness and emotional release
• 83:21–92:00 – Kevin and Chelsea on therapy, storytelling, “not feeling feelings”
• 93:39 – The RISK! audience as a transformative community
• 94:54 – Outro and Chelsea’s account of responses after her story aired

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Conclusion and Final Takeaways

This episode of RISK! demonstrates the unmatched emotional depth and rawness possible when people share their truest, most vulnerable experiences. Scott McMahon’s survival of a corrupt, life-shattering imprisonment and Chelsea Dy’s reckoning with her addiction and the ripple of consequences it unleashed offer not just extraordinary stories, but lessons in resilience, community, and the necessity of compassion—even (and especially) for ourselves.

Spread the word:
RISK! urges its listeners to share these stories widely, championing the healing and transformation that come through radical truth-telling. “Stories you never thought you’d dare to share in public” isn’t just a tagline—it’s a literal lifeline for hosts, guests, and listeners alike.

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For more information on workshops and future RISK! events, including Chelsea’s upcoming art show “Room for Grief,” visit Risk Show or follow on all social media @riskshow.

Hashtag: #ListenToRisk

Transcript

[Kevin Allison]

On this episode of Risk, you'll hear

[Scott McMahon]

six feet off the ground. Six feet long, four feet wide. And that was my world for five and a half years.

[Kevin Allison]

And you'll hear if you've smelled what

[Chelsea Dy]

rotting flesh smells like. It's that. It's really that.

[Kevin Allison]

And of course, you'll hear me, Kevin Allison on the show where people tell true stories they never thought they'd dare to share.

[Scott McMahon]

Let's go. Hey, sweetie. Your mother showed me this Carvana thing

[Kevin Allison]

for selling the car.

[Scott McMahon]

I'm gonna give it a try. Wish me luck. Me again. I put in the license plate.

[Kevin Allison]

It gave me an offer.

[Gustavo Sorola]

Unbelievable.

[Kevin Allison]

Okay, I accepted the offer.

[Scott McMahon]

They're picking it up Tuesday from the driveway. I haven't even left my chair. It's done. The car is gone. I'm holding a check anyway. Carvana, give it a whirl. Love ya.

[Chelsea Dy]

So good you'll want to leave a voicemail about it. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply.

[Gustavo Sorola]

Hi, I'm Gustavo Sorola, and if you love D and D style adventures full of humor and heart, you should check out Tales from the Stinky Dragon. Tales from the Stinky Dragon is a cinematic listening experience complete with guest performances from professional voice actors and comedians, immersive sound design, and its own musical score. Go on a thrilling journey with four friends and me, Gus, their very patient dungeon master, as we stumble through disastrous dice rolls, questionable roleplay decisions, and even a few wholesome feel good moments along the way. You can binge our first two campaigns or join us every other week for our latest third campaign. No matter where you decide to start listening, you'll you're guaranteed to have a side splitting journey that's fun for all ages and perfect for both D and D veterans and newcomers alike. Just search for Tales from the Stinky Dragon wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe today.

[Kevin Allison]

Okay, folks, this episode is the Best of risk number 35. And along with the recent rerun of the Best of risk number 12 and the release in April of the best of risk 34, there are a lot of amazing episodes of Risk high up in the queue right now that are great for you to be sharing with newcomers to the podcast. And if you are new to the podcast, welcome. Risk has been around for over 16 years, a length of time which is almost unheard of in the indie podcasting realm. And that means there are so many hilarious and heartbreaking and unforgettable stories you can find here, not to mention such a smart and caring and creative community of storytellers and fellow listeners and this amazing Risk staff making it all happen as such a labor of love. Now, this episode features two stories we'll be hearing from Chelsea DY later on, but to start things off, a remarkable story by Scott McMahon. It's a story that he shared with Don Fraser in conversation. It's quite a journey. And it's a story we call Midnight in Manila.

[Scott McMahon]

I was living in Manila, Philippines, 2009, when this. When this all started happening. I was living in a subdivision with my wife, my daughter, my son, working for a construction company. Long hours, leave early morning, come home late at night. I met another white guy in our subdivisions. We were the only two. I met him when I was going to the store to buy some beer. And he was this Belgian guy named Yan. When he sees me, he goes, oh, you drink beer? Yeah, I drink beer. Well, for this we will drink. His English was horrible. And he thought it was so good. And so, like, okay. So we start having some beers. And he was a cool dude. He says, yeah, I just live over here in the other street, and I'm married and yada, yada. Oh, that's cool. So we had a few beers and, you know, I went home, and we would see each other probably every other day, you know, because they live two streets over, so we don't, you know. And he didn't work, so whenever I come in, he's always there at the store, drinking beer because I passed that way to go to my house. So he'd see me and he'd flag me down, you know. Scott. Scott. Scots. So I'd be like, wait, yeah, and I gotta go home first. So I go home and then walk back and.

[Don Fraser]

So were you living by yourself or you had family?

[Scott McMahon]

With my wife and my. My daughter and my son.

[Don Fraser]

Your wife's Filipina?

[Scott McMahon]

Yeah.

[Don Fraser]

Yeah.

[Scott McMahon]

And so I would go back and we would hang out. And he's married, and he met her in a bar in South Korea when he was working over there. He's a mechanical engineer, and she was a waitress. And they ended up, you know, falling in love or whatever, and they got married and came back here. And so here he was. After about a month, he starts confiding to me that he says, you know, there's something not right with Dolores. So what's not right? He says, well, come here. We go to his house, and he opens up his closet, and there's all these passports. Like 40, 50 passports of girls. Women. Not young girls, but it's 18 to 25 some, you know, 40 to 50 passports. Yeah. And I'm like, what is this? He goes, I don't know. I'm like, dude, this ain't right. And he goes, yeah. And I found this. And he shows me a marriage certificate with her name on it and another guy's name on it.

[Don Fraser]

Oh, no.

[Scott McMahon]

And this is 20 years old. And there's no divorce in the Philippines.

[Don Fraser]

There's no divorce, as in there's no divorce.

[Scott McMahon]

Once you're married, you're married. There's no divorce. You can get an annulment, but it takes years.

[Don Fraser]

So he was maybe married, maybe not married to this woman?

[Scott McMahon]

Yeah, well, that's the. Yeah, that's. That's the question. I says, well, if this marriage certificate's real, your marriage isn't real. He goes, no, we got married with a priest, and I have my marriage certificate. He shows me his marriage certificate. So I said, what do you want to do? He goes, I don't know. He goes, can we find out if it's real? I said, yeah, we can go down to the nso, National Statistics. We went down there and sure enough, it was real. Well, then we checked his marriage certificate with her. That was submitted also.

[Don Fraser]

And was it real?

[Scott McMahon]

Well, it was submitted and stamped, but it wasn't real.

[Don Fraser]

It wasn't valid.

[Scott McMahon]

It wasn't valid. Yeah. And I said, dude, she's scamming you. I said, where did you get married? He goes, oh, in Recto. This place called Recto. Recto is like the forgery capital of the world. You can go to Recto and get anything. Harvard degree, if you want. Seriously.

[Don Fraser]

And I wasted my time.

[Scott McMahon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so they went down there, and what happened was she rented an office space for 30 minutes, hired a fake priest for 30 minutes, got all fake documents, had a little ceremony.

[Don Fraser]

Oh.

[Scott McMahon]

And went and submitted it to the statistics office.

[Don Fraser]

Oh, my God.

[Scott McMahon]

Because they're not going to check if she's married to someone else or not.

[Don Fraser]

Right.

[Scott McMahon]

They just want the money.

[Don Fraser]

Right.

[Scott McMahon]

So I said, dude, you're being scammed. And when she found out, because he confronted her and she went ballistic, and they had a big fight, and he came to my house and said, can I stay here? He said, yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you stay here? Sure, of course.

[Don Fraser]

So he had no other friends or he had no other.

[Scott McMahon]

No, he didn't know anybody but me.

[Don Fraser]

Okay.

[Scott McMahon]

Nobody could understand him. I had a hard time understanding him.

[Don Fraser]

Right. Oh, no.

[Scott McMahon]

So I said, yeah, yeah, sure, no problem. And he stayed for a week, and she came over a couple times and they Talked, worked things out, and he went back. Two weeks later, he came back, Scott, for this I cannot stand. Sickness was horrible. What happened? He goes, he goes, she's just crazy. She's crazy. I'm finished. I finished. I'm done. Okay. So he comes back and stays for another week. And I was, you know, I would leave early morning, I would leave at 5. I get home 10 at night. We'd work our eight hours, but you had to plan in three, four hours just for travel time, just because of the traffic. The traffic is so horrible. I mean, the job site's 10 miles away, but it takes two hours to get there and three hours to get home.

[Chelsea Dy]

What?

[Scott McMahon]

Yeah. Some of the worst traffic in the world, actually. So I get home, it'd be 10 o' clock at night. I'm tired, everybody's sleeping. So I just go to bed. I had no idea what had been going on until one night I came home and everybody's up. My wife's look on her face was. She's frazzled looking. And I said, where's Jan? She says, he was arrested. I said, what happened? She says, they came to the house, they raided the house and arrested him with national tv. I said, no shit? Yeah. And the kids were in the room. They weren't out in the living room. I said, where's the kids? Just in the room. I went in the room and My son was 5. My daughter was 2. My daughter was sleeping. My son was just trembling.

[Don Fraser]

Oh, my God. Who raided you?

[Scott McMahon]

Philippine National Police, Bureau of Immigration and National Television. She had it all coordinated.

[Don Fraser]

Oh, my God.

[Scott McMahon]

She filed a complaint saying that he would make her mix cement out on the sidewalk and burn her face with cigarettes.

[Don Fraser]

What?

[Scott McMahon]

But yet she had no marks on her face.

[Don Fraser]

And so this is how she got him arrested.

[Scott McMahon]

This is how she got him arrested. Domestic violence.

[Don Fraser]

Domestic violence.

[Scott McMahon]

But why was the Bureau of Immigration there? They shouldn't have been there. She had it all set up. And they took him to the immigration jail, not regular jail. So he's off an immigration jail. My son's just sitting in the corner trembling. He didn't even sleep that night. So the next morning, I said, okay, I'm not gonna go to work. And I told him, I said, let's get you ready for school and take you to school. He says, uh, I don't want to go, Papa. I said, why? The monster's there. The monster, which I found out later was her. So her sister lived right across the street from us, and during the week she would stay at her sister's house and wait for them to come outside. And she would threaten them, especially my wife. She said, you should have never gotten involved in our problems. You're gonna pay. My gosh, you're gonna wish you never got involved in my problems.

[Don Fraser]

She was torturing these children?

[Scott McMahon]

Yep. Just her son and my daughter and my wife.

[Don Fraser]

And your wife?

[Kevin Allison]

Yeah.

[Don Fraser]

And your wife didn't say anything?

[Scott McMahon]

Didn't say nothing.

[Don Fraser]

Why?

[Scott McMahon]

She's scared.

[Don Fraser]

Oh, my God.

[Scott McMahon]

She was afraid she'd get beat up. So this all hits me at once, you know, it's like a bam. So I'm pissed, of course. I called a friend of mine and he recommended a psychologist, and he was one of the best in the country, really well known, and got me an appointment for that day. So I took my son. We got there and I said I had a problem, something happened last night. He says, whoa, whoa, whoa. He goes, I don't want to hear it. He goes, let me talk to your son first. So we took him in the room, probably half hour, hour, came back out and said, okay. The secretary says, he'll see you now. Okay. So my son went out, I went in, I closed the door. And he goes, what the fuck happened? And I was like, well, I was trying to tell you. He goes, well, I didn't want to hear it from you. He goes, who's the monster? And I said, I don't know. Who is the monster? He says, dolores is the monster. Dolores is Yan's wife. Okay. And so he starts showing me these tests that he gave him. The one I really remember was the tree person test. My son drew a big tree, which we had in our front yard. And then he drew himself very, very small and curled up, hiding. And then he drew a picture of the monster, which was Dolores hovering above him. And then in the back behind the tree was a really big person who he said was me. And I was the only one that could save the little boy from the monster. But I was never there.

[Don Fraser]

Oh, my God.

[Scott McMahon]

And I was like. Broke my heart, man. So he said, you know, he has chronic post traumatic stress disorder because of what happened, because of her. So, you know, he made his report, I got his report, got an attorney. We filed a complaint against her for child abuse.

[Don Fraser]

What was your intent with the filing?

[Scott McMahon]

Get her arrested, put her in jail for what she did, you know, to get back at her. That's. That's, you know, here in the States. That's what we do there. Apparently, you know, you don't do that.

[Don Fraser]

Okay? So.

[Scott McMahon]

Yeah, I know. It's the Filipino way. So he files the complaint, and the legal system over there takes forever. We give a little extra money to get it read faster, to get it processed faster. Not necessarily to make it in our favor, just to get it going. That works. And they found probable cause. They issued a warrant of arrest. They arrested her.

[Don Fraser]

They arrested her?

[Scott McMahon]

Yeah, but it's a bailable offense.

[Don Fraser]

Okay.

[Scott McMahon]

So she would post a bail, got out, and then I noticed she wouldn't be at her sister's house anymore. So I'm thinking, oh, okay. She knows what's up. You know, her time's coming.

[Don Fraser]

She's staying away.

[Scott McMahon]

Well, she was staying away because she was filing her case against me. So when. When we got to court, which is like a year and a half later.

[Don Fraser]

My God.

[Scott McMahon]

Yeah, we're down in the. There's a McDonald's at the bottom of the court, court's on the second floor. And we're just sitting there waiting. It's like 8am we left that morning. I told the kids, me and Mommy have a meeting. The babysitter came. We'll be back at noon. Then we'll all go to the mall, have fun, ride the roller coasters. They love the roller coasters, man. So they're like, yeah, yeah. I never came home for five and a half years. What didn't come home?

[Don Fraser]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Well, back. Back me up. What? What do you mean? What happened?

[Scott McMahon]

We got to the court, and we're waiting for the court to open upstairs. We're in the McDonald's. She walks in, looks at us and walks out. So I'm thinking, oh, boy, she's scared. Right after that, the door opens, and this. We see this bright light. It's a television camera. Five cops and then a cameraman. And they walk in. I'm thinking, I looked at my wife. I go, I wonder who they're going to get.

[Don Fraser]

Did you think that they might be there for your case?

[Scott McMahon]

No, I thought they were there for someone else until they started walking towards us. I'm like, okay. And they walk right up to our table and. Are you Scott's, McMahon? We got a warrant for your arrest. They said, for what? They said, rape. Stand up. You're under arrest. You're going with us.

[Don Fraser]

Oh, my God.

[Scott McMahon]

And I look at my wife, and my wife's kind of hiding, you know, her face. Because she didn't want to be on the camera, right?

[Don Fraser]

Yeah, of course.

[Scott McMahon]

So I stood up. We walked outside, Right? As we walked outside, she was standing out there. When she saw me, she Says, you think you're going to rape me? That you can get away with it? You'll never get away with it.

[Don Fraser]

Nobody said anything about the fact that this woman and I are going to court right now.

[Scott McMahon]

I told the police, I go, listen, we have a court date right now. Yeah, you know, I have a case against her. And they said, so we have a warrant. You're coming with us.

[Don Fraser]

Oh, my God.

[Scott McMahon]

I just got in the car and the jail's 10 minute drive from there. It's 3, 400 yards.

[Don Fraser]

So they're taking you directly to jail?

[Scott McMahon]

Well, they took me. They went the opposite way. I said, I'm like, where are we going? Like, don't worry about it. About an hour later, we pull into a place called Camp Krame, which is the headquarters for the national police, the main headquarters. And I'm like, okay, this ain't good, Stop. We get out and they said, let's go inside. And their main chief meets me and says, bring him in here. We go in his office and he says, these are some serious charges against you. I didn't do anything wrong. I didn't rape anybody. He goes, well, doesn't look like it. I said, I didn't rape anybody. And he goes, I'll tell you what, I can help you. Then I'm thinking, oh, shit, okay, here it comes. Here comes the money. They want money. He says, you know, we can work this out and you can go home today. And I said, no way. I said, I ain't paying. He says, you know, you might want to take some time and think about it. And he left for like an hour. So I'm just sitting in there and then one of the officers comes in and goes, do you want something to eat or something to drink? I'm like, no, I'm good. No way, man. And then they'd bring in the good cop and he'd be like, she's crazy, huh? Man, that just doesn't seem right. I'm like, yeah, yeah, she's crazy all right. And then the bad cop would come in, man, you're going down, dude.

[Don Fraser]

Oh, my gosh.

[Scott McMahon]

So chief comes in after an hour and says, change your mind? I said, no. I said, I didn't do anything wrong, man. I'm not paying. It's okay. You're going to jail. So they took me to Jill. We get there and they're not ready for me. Paperwork wasn't finished, so we have to wait outside.

[Don Fraser]

And you haven't been in contact with

[Scott McMahon]

your wife or she was down there waiting for me.

[Don Fraser]

Oh, she was okay.

[Scott McMahon]

So she knew at some point that we were gonna go there. Hopefully. We pulled in, I saw her there, I was like, all right, thank God. I'm thinking, maybe she's got good news, you know, maybe I'm going home. But when I saw her and the look on her face, I'm like, there's no good news.

[Don Fraser]

So this is an offense where you cannot post bail.

[Scott McMahon]

Non bailable offense, yes, rape. And all they have to do is point you and say, he raped me. And that's considered strong evidence by the court because of a law they have called the Maria Clara Doctrine. And that basically says a Filipino woman would not lie.

[Don Fraser]

Ooh.

[Scott McMahon]

So we're sitting out there, and this jail, it's pink and it's chain link fencing on the outside. So it kind of looks like a unkept dog kennel. So we're sitting out there waiting, and the warden comes out and he introduces himself, shakes my hand and says, who's that over there? Is that your wife? I go, it's my wife. So he says, ma', am, come here. Of course they're doing all this in Tagalog. But what they didn't know is I could understand fluently and speak fluently. So he's telling her, you know, you can bring him food three times a day, you can bring him water because he won't be able to drink the water. And then he looks at me in English, he says, you see that guy sitting inside there? There's a little Filipino dude in a Led Zeppelin T shirt. I said, yeah, yeah. He goes, well, he's the mayor and he runs the inside. So, you know, I suggest you become friends with him because you're going to be here a while and I'll even introduce you.

[Don Fraser]

Oh, my God.

[Scott McMahon]

And he says, any questions? I said, yeah, one. He says, what's that? What's the mayor of the city doing in jail? I mean, how does that work? And he just laughed at me like I was dumb. He goes, what do you Americans call it?

[Kevin Allison]

Gang leader.

[Scott McMahon]

He's the gang leader. I was like, oh, okay, now I get it. And he looks over at my wife and says, ma', am, don't forget to bring him food and water, because if not, he'll die.

[Don Fraser]

Oh, my God.

[Scott McMahon]

They said, let's go. And we go inside, and once we get inside, I have to sign a couple papers. And then we go to this hallway, which is about 10ft long. And right as we got to the hallway, there was a stench, nasty stench like shit. And Piss and vomit. I mean it was nasty. It's the best way I can explain it.

[Don Fraser]

So you're walking into the hallway and the cells are to your sides.

[Scott McMahon]

There's no cells yet. The hallway is like 10ft long. And then there's stairs that go up and they're like ship stairs, they're like that steep. And there's one cell to the left and that's maximum security. And we look and it's just a sea of people. And they open the door and I go like, I ain't going in there. Can me a push.

[Don Fraser]

And I went, and maximum security. Maximum security with how many other people?

[Scott McMahon]

300.

[Don Fraser]

300 people in, in one room.

[Scott McMahon]

880 square feet.

[Don Fraser]

Oh my God.

[Scott McMahon]

With two toilet bowls.

[Don Fraser]

Yikes.

[Scott McMahon]

So four cells. Cell A, B, C, D. Cell A was where you went if you were sick and dying or you were in trouble. They had a toilet bowl. Cell B, cell C, no toilets. Cell D, which is where I was. One toilet bowl. So if you had to piss, they'd pass you a two liter bottle. You urinate in the two liter bottle, they dump it in a five gallon bucket. Five gallon bucket gets full, they get one of the low level peons to take the five gallon bucket, cell A and dump it in the toilet bowl.

[Don Fraser]

Could you easily go in between each cell?

[Scott McMahon]

There's no room, no room to move. Everybody sat on their butt and the person in front of you sat his butt on your feet and your hands were on his shoulders.

[Don Fraser]

Oh my God.

[Scott McMahon]

And when you slept, you know, it's like open a can of sardines. That's the way people slept. Not on their back, on their side.

[Don Fraser]

And during the day, could you walk around?

[Scott McMahon]

Is there nowhere to walk?

[Don Fraser]

Oh my God.

[Scott McMahon]

So you just sat. The only time you got out is if you had a visitor. And if you didn't have a visitor, you stayed in the cell.

[Don Fraser]

And what about your food?

[Scott McMahon]

500 calories a day.

[Don Fraser]

Where do you eat it or how are people eating it?

[Scott McMahon]

So they would, in the morning, it's like rice with hot chocolate mixed in it. And they'd bring a five gallon bucket for each cell. Didn't matter how many people were in there. You had a five gallon bucket and that was it. Everybody get one scoop. That was breakfast. Lunch would be three quarters of a cup of rice and a little four inch piece of dried fish. And dinner would be three quarters of a cup of rice and a little hard boiled egg. Or they'd alternate it between lunch and dinner like that. It was nasty. You couldn't eat it. So the people that didn't have support from their families would starve to death. Die.

[Don Fraser]

Like, literally just die.

[Scott McMahon]

You know, it had to go over, like, three, four month time period. You see pictures of the World War II concentration camps.

[Don Fraser]

Yeah.

[Scott McMahon]

Where there's just a skin hanging off of their bones.

[Don Fraser]

Yeah.

[Scott McMahon]

And their feet. That's what they look like. And there's no medical care, no dental care. So the only way you can go to the hospital is if you have a court order from a judge, which would take years. Or it's a life or death situation. And a life or death situation is when they can't get a reading on the blood pressure apparatus. When they take your BP and they can't get a reading. Okay. It's life or death situation. Take them in. Well, pretty much dead at that point.

[Don Fraser]

They're dead. Yeah, they're dead.

[Scott McMahon]

Yeah.

[Don Fraser]

Yeah.

[Scott McMahon]

So these guys at the end, they would. Their tongues would be out of their mouth and their eyes would be rolling back in their head, and their ankles were like the size of apples, just swollen. And they would be in the bathroom on a plastic chair because they'd themselves and piss themselves. And so they'd do that, and someone would dump water and wash them off. And that's how they spent their days until they'd go. That was. That was a hard one to digest because they would all be begging for food. You know, I'd be eating, and they're like, give us food. I'd throw my chicken bones away. Boom. They're just fighting for them. So I would share food with them.

[Don Fraser]

You had more food than. Than most people.

[Scott McMahon]

Yeah, because my wife would bring it every day. So the gang leader one day says, why are you feeding these guys? They're hungry. I mean, they're dying. He goes, exactly like, I don't get it. He goes, don't you see what you're doing? You're prolonging their misery. What do you mean? He goes, they're gonna die. Plain and simple, they're gonna die. So all you're doing is making it take longer. And I'm like, I couldn't fathom that, you know? And he goes, you know, every day you give them food, they're going to stay alive a little bit longer, but that doesn't matter because they're going to die. I thought I was being cool, you know what I mean? I thought I was helping. And he says, you know, look at yourself, man. He goes, you're getting skinny. You're losing weight. He goes, do you want to be like them? Hell no. He goes, well, better them than you, right? I'm like, right.

[Don Fraser]

Do you still want to feed other people regardless of what he's saying, or are you thinking, not after that, no.

[Scott McMahon]

I'm like, hey, man, better you than me.

[Kevin Allison]

Sorry.

[Scott McMahon]

I got a family to get home to. You know, it was a big eye opener. Life means nothing. So I had to change and change my whole mentality because better them than me, right? And better than me. I always had to remember that, better you than me. Sorry, dude, but better you than me. So being in there, you know, I. I didn't speak to God for like a week because at least I could know what they were saying about me, right? But they didn't know that I knew. So when I finally decided to speak, there were five guys that were going to jump me. And I could hear them talking. Hey, let's. Let's jump the white guy. And the gang leader wasn't in the cell.

[Don Fraser]

He was out, okay?

[Scott McMahon]

He could go out whenever he wanted. So I hear him planning that, you know, speed, let's jump him. That's the time when I told him, I said, hey, let's do it. They're like, oh. So I back into the corner. I know they can't get behind me, you know, so they can hold my own for a little bit, but it's only a matter of time. And. And so I said, can I say one thing before we get started? They're like, what? I'm like, there's five of you, there's one of me. So I'm going to lose. I know that. But three of you are going with me, man. So which three you think it's going to be?

[Don Fraser]

Oh, snap.

[Scott McMahon]

I'm scared shitless, actually. I'm backed into the corner, man, ready to go. And one guy looks at the other one goes, instead of ulu shot means he's fucking crazy. They start to walk forward, and this Jon Bon Jovi song is going through my head. Blaze of glory. You know that song? Yes, Dan. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm getting ready to die. Why is this song going through my head? You know?

[Kevin Allison]

Oh, my gosh.

[Scott McMahon]

All of a sudden, they're walking towards me, and I'm in the corner, fist up. And you hear this.

[Don Fraser]

Hey.

[Scott McMahon]

And it's the gang leader. Somebody had tipped him off of what was going on. Oh, he comes walking and he's pissed. He's like, you know, I got any detail, you know, what's going on here. So I talked to him and I was like, listen, man, you guys are going to jump me. And I was just telling him that three of them are going to go with me, you know. And he goes, you speak Tagalog? I was like, dude, no disrespect. That's the only thing I had, you know, So I hope you understand. And he looks at those guys and he hits them all, each one of them right in the head. Whap, whap, whap, whap, whap. Sends them all to cell A for a week. Cell A was where you went if you were sick and dying or if you were in trouble. And he goes, come here. He had this area probably 6 by 12, you know, that was just his area. And that's a big space in there. And he's like, you know, he was, I wanted to talk to you, but I don't speak English. And I was like, yeah, like, you know, sorry again. Just trying to protect myself.

[Don Fraser]

Yeah.

[Scott McMahon]

And he goes, yeah. He goes, is there anything I can do for you? And I said, yeah. I go, I would love a place to sleep. And I got money. I said, I got 15,000 pesos, 300 US I can have it here tomorrow. That'd be like having three grand here. He goes, bring the money tomorrow and I'll have you a bed built. So he built me a bed right next to his. Six feet off the ground, six feet long, four feet wide. And that was my world for five and a half years.

[Chelsea Dy]

What?

[Scott McMahon]

And of course, every holidays would come, I would donate, I'd pay him rent, $20 every month. He needed anything, you know, I'd be there to give money, you know, so.

[Don Fraser]

So he was like your celly?

[Scott McMahon]

He was my bro after that, huh? Yeah. I still talk to him to this day.

[Don Fraser]

You're kidding. Is he still in there?

[Scott McMahon]

He's out. But then he's back in now for something different.

[Don Fraser]

Oh, boy.

[Scott McMahon]

But I'll send him 40 bucks every few months just to. Because without him, I'd be dead. Without him and my wife, I would wouldn't have made it.

[Don Fraser]

Why do you think that he wanted to befriend you?

[Scott McMahon]

I think he just liked me. He was a nice guy. He's a cool dude. You know, we just got along well. And he liked the fact that he had an American friend.

[Don Fraser]

I can imagine. I can imagine.

[Scott McMahon]

I was the only white guy in the whole jail, so.

[Don Fraser]

Right.

[Scott McMahon]

So he thought that was pretty cool. And he'd always be like, you know, Scott, in America, is it like this? Are the sidewalks really made out? Of gold. It's like, shh. No, dude, only in Disney.

[Don Fraser]

Yeah.

[Scott McMahon]

So then the. You know, the extortion started. The police would come, come to the jail, and it'd be. Every six weeks or so, a different one would come.

[Don Fraser]

To check on you.

[Scott McMahon]

Yeah. To help me. So to speak.

[Don Fraser]

What?

[Scott McMahon]

So the first time it happened, they said, someone's at the gate for you. I go out there, and there's a police officer there. And he's like, scott's party, you know, party's like, bro. You know, he pretends like we're good buddies. How are you? Fine. He's like, I want to help you. Then I'm like, oh, I get it. I get it. You want to help me. Okay. He goes, you pay 5 million pesos, it's $125,000. Pay 5 million pesos, you drop your case against her, and you're going home.

[Don Fraser]

You dropped your case against her?

[Scott McMahon]

Yeah.

[Don Fraser]

So your case is still active.

[Scott McMahon]

Yep. But I said, no. Pay you 5 million pesos and drop my case against her. So no way. Okay. And then six weeks later, another one would come, you know, hey, Scott. And it was the same thing. Same thing every time. I was like, no way, man. I'm not going to pay. Well, in the meantime, I'd have all these court hearings scheduled, and I would think, okay, I got this date scheduled. This date scheduled. This date scheduled. We're going to get everything laid out, and I'm out of here. I'm out of here in a month.

[Don Fraser]

Right, Right.

[Scott McMahon]

And we go to court, and, sorry, no hearing today. I'll deliver it. The prosecutor was in on it. The judge was in on it.

[Don Fraser]

Wait, what?

[Scott McMahon]

Yes.

[Don Fraser]

So every time that you went, you were just thinking, why isn't this happening?

[Scott McMahon]

And they get you all the way to the court, and you get in the holding cell and you're waiting to go in. And they'd be like, okay, let's go back. There's no court today. Why? Well, the judge is on vacation. Are the prosecutor sick?

[Don Fraser]

How many times did this happen? Over how long a period?

[Scott McMahon]

Oh, God. I had. I think I had 56 hearings scheduled in five years, and maybe seven or eight of them went through.

[Don Fraser]

Wow.

[Scott McMahon]

So that kept going on. Every six weeks, another cop would come in, five million pesos dropped. And I said, ain't happening. Ain't happening. Well, then they'd start lowering the price. 4 million pesos. Drop your case against her. No. Ain't happening. Ain't happening. The times that we did have a hearing, that would go through my Wife would go to the court, when we'd leave, she'd be leaving and the prosecutor would be conveniently sitting outside standing against the rails, just giving her a big smile, just waiting for her to approach him. Let's settle this thing, right? And I said, don't, don't.

[Don Fraser]

Just waiting for the money to. To fall.

[Scott McMahon]

Yeah. They all knew I was the innocent. They all knew, you know, of course they just want the money.

[Don Fraser]

Of course.

[Scott McMahon]

So as the price starts to drop at the four year mark, it went down to zero. Don't pay any money. Just drop your case against her. Oh, now she's getting desperate because she thinks I'm going to pay clear. I'm not going to pay. So what they said is, no money, drop your case against her and just give something for the boys. For the boys is a term there. Just give us some money for, you know, facilitating everything. He goes, you don't have to pay anything. Just drop your case and just, you know, give something for the boys. You're never going to get out. You'll never get out of here. You're going to get convicted. You're going to go to prison. I go, you know what, man? You're right. I'm like, I. I want to go home, man. I'm tired of this place. This place sucks. He goes, now you're talking. I go, but the thing is, is I don't know how much money to give, you know. And he goes, just, you know, whatever you think is good for the boys, don't you? We've been working hard on this, okay? I said, okay. I go, wait, I. I got it. I know how much I'm gonna give. And he goes, oh, good. He goes, how much?

[Don Fraser]

Oh, no.

[Scott McMahon]

And like, it's rebar. The doors. We were. I just stick my finger and I'm like 1 peso you right in his face and give you. And this dude turned so red, he was pissed. He was like, my God. He goes, you're gonna die in here. And I point to the sky. I'm like, I don't know, man. I got a pretty good bodyguard, you know. Four years, I was doing pretty good. So he turns around and walks off. And I'm thinking, I got you. It was just like a movie. He gets to the, to the hallway where the hallway would start, and he puts his finger up in the air and he goes, what's your pretty wife's name? Marnelli. I was like, well, you cocksucker. And then he turns around and he goes, and little Nicole, right? Nicole's what, five or six now? And I was like, you motherfucker. And he goes, and let's not forget Scott junior. Now he's got my attention. I go and he goes, you never know. Rape, murder. People come missing all the time, man. I was scared then. Fucking scared. My heart's going, there's nothing I could do. I said, but I'll tell you what. Here's what I know now. He's cocky. He's like, what? Well, you're here because you want money. That means you ain't got no money. What I'm going to do is I'm going to hire your best friend. If anything happens to my family, one hair is harmed, I'm gonna hire your best friend to rape your wife and kill your fucking son and kill your daughter and your dogs and your cats and whatever else is in your house. And he just looks at me and he goes. Is what he said, means you're fucking dead. I said, yeah, fuck you. Get out of here. He turned around and walked off. And my heart's a pound. And he walks out. And I'm just like. And there's some other guys on the hallway that heard everything. They said, you're fucking crazy, dude. You are nuts. I'm like, oh, whatever. I was scared. My heart's pounding right now. So I go back to my little world, my bed. And Leo, the gang leader, he goes, what'd you do that for? I'm like, what else am I supposed to do? And he goes, you're crazy, dude. That was dumb. Like, okay, whatever. So the next day comes, visiting time. My wife doesn't show up. And I'm like, okay, she's sick or something. Something happened. They can't make it today. But she's always there every day. So, okay, that's fine. I thought about it through the night, you know, what if, what if, what if? But like, no, no, no, no, no. He's just bluffing. And the next day came, visiting hours come, she doesn't show up. Then I'm worried. I'm going, fuck, man. Are they dead? You know, Did I just get him killed me in my mouth? And that night, I didn't sleep. That's all I could think about, you know, what's going through my head was pictures of them getting killed. Pictures of them getting raped, you know, just going all through my head. Pictures of them just laying in the ground in blood, and it was like. It was torture. So next day comes, they don't show up. That's day three. But now I'm going, they're dead. They probably did what they said they were going to do.

[Don Fraser]

You know, at this point, you had seen them every single day. Yeah, for the past four years now.

[Scott McMahon]

Yep. And I don't have food, but that part didn't really bother me because I was too worried to eat anyways. So I had a guy I knew, I said, I asked him, can you have your. Your wife call my wife and find out what's going on? Because they haven't been here. They said, yeah, sure. But I had to wait till the next day visiting time to get news. And I had to wait for him to come back from visiting hours after it was over to get. To get the news because I couldn't go up because I didn't have a visitor. So when he came back, I go and find him. I said, hey, what'd she say? He goes, she called her, but the phone is not in service. And I was just like, for sure they're gone.

[Don Fraser]

My God.

[Scott McMahon]

Dead. And. Again, the images, just them being killed. They have a thing, it's called snavage. And it's where they pick them up. They take them out to the rural area where the train tracks are and they kill them and they just leave them on the tracks. The police do that.

[Don Fraser]

Police do this?

[Scott McMahon]

Yeah, the police do that. Couldn't stop crying, man, because it's all that would go through my head. And I just sit in my little bed and, you know, I didn't have any pillows, but I had, like, T shirts. I just cover my face because I don't want people to see me crying. Yeah, because they all thought it was a psycho, you know? Of course, the crazy white dude, you know, So I didn't want him to see me crying. And then the gang leader would be like, hey, man, there's nothing you can do. As if he's confirming that they're gone. And I goes to their dead. And he goes, oh, I don't. He goes, I don't know, but I mean, it don't look good. And I'm just the worst thing ever been through in my life. Mental torture is the worst, man. I'd rather be physically tortured than mentally tortured like that. So another sleepless night. Day five comes around, Visitors are there, and nothing. Well, after about 15 minutes of that, they said, scott, you have a visitor. I said, okay. But usually when they say, scott, your wife's here. So, scott, you have a visitor. I said, okay, who is it? We don't know. And I'm just going, fuck at this point.

[Don Fraser]

Have you eaten in five days?

[Scott McMahon]

No. No.

[Don Fraser]

Okay.

[Scott McMahon]

No. So I'm thinking, okay, it's someone coming to give me the news that they're dead. So I try to compose myself. I get my shirt on, get ready to go up, and then they come back and go, oh, hey, it's your wife. I was like, you, mother what? You know, they open the door, and I get up, I get upstairs, the third floor to the visiting area, and I see them way back in the corner, and I'm like, wow, here they are. You know, they're alive.

[Don Fraser]

Does that mean your son, your daughter and your wife?

[Scott McMahon]

And my wife, Yep, all three of them. And then I got really pissed. I get back there, I'm like, where the fuck have you been, man? What? It's been five days, you know? And she's just like, they've been sick, kids had the flu. I'm like, oh, right, yeah, okay. Yeah, gotcha. You know, the whole time I'm thinking, they're dead and they've been murdered. And I never told them about what. What had happened until a couple years ago. It was just horrible. And eventually, I got acquitted after five and a half years.

[Don Fraser]

Wow. They found you not guilty and just were able to let you go.

[Scott McMahon]

Well, it gets better. There was a lot of media attention on the case. My mom got with an organization. I don't want to say their name. They specialize in Americans that are imprisoned in foreign countries.

[Don Fraser]

Okay.

[Scott McMahon]

And she got a hold of this guy, the owner, and he looked at my case and said, this is the first case I've seen where there is so much evidence in his favor. And he ended up taking my case on for free. And they charged a lot of money to do a case.

[Don Fraser]

Yeah.

[Scott McMahon]

And all we had to do was pay the phone bill, the phone calls and stuff like that. He got the California Innocence Project involved, and they came to the Philippines, and they started attending my hearings. And once there started becoming more media attention, and then the UN got involved. They investigated it. They wrote the Philippine government a letter, said, there's no evidence against this guy, and you've had him in pretrial detention for five years. Then they had to give me a trial, Right.

[Don Fraser]

A global story.

[Scott McMahon]

It was becoming embarrassing for them. US Embassy, they wouldn't help me at all.

[Don Fraser]

Why?

[Scott McMahon]

They came to the jail and said, sorry, there's nothing we can do for you. Here's a list of lawyers you can hire. Wow. I'm like, wait, I'm innocent. They said, we can't get involved. They wouldn't do nothing.

[Don Fraser]

Wow.

[Scott McMahon]

Yeah.

[Don Fraser]

Thank you.

[Scott McMahon]

Yeah, thanks a lot, Uncle Sam.

[Don Fraser]

Right.

[Scott McMahon]

Because you think that especially if you're, you've been framed up, your government's going to help you.

[Don Fraser]

Yeah, right, exactly.

[Scott McMahon]

Uh, ain't happening. And they wouldn't even attend my hearings. Nothing. They wouldn't do anything. Well, after the media attention started coming out, well, they started showing up to the hearings.

[Don Fraser]

Oh, interesting. Convenient.

[Scott McMahon]

Yeah, yeah. So the judge gave me a trial. They couldn't hide it anymore.

[Don Fraser]

Right, right.

[Scott McMahon]

You know, there's too much media attention, so they gave me a trial at five years based on the facts, in five years and four months, I was acquitted.

[Don Fraser]

And so I'm assuming when you got home, you packed up shop.

[Scott McMahon]

When I got acquitted, I came back to the jail and they said, okay, get your stuff. You're gonna leave in three hours. I said, okay. Well, the three hour mark comes. It was actually about the two hour mark. And I told Leo, the gang leader, I said, hey, I was thinking, why don't I just go home tomorrow, you know, and then we'll just kind of hang out tonight so we can like, hang out one last time. Da, da, da. And to leave tomorrow. And he goes, you're fucking crazy. He goes, no, get out of here. Well, the truth was I was scared to go out because I'd been there so long, you know, I was institutionalized. I was used to life in there, going out, scary. But I did, I had to leave. And I hadn't seen my wife or the kids in about a year, year and three months because they left about the four year mark.

[Don Fraser]

She left to go back to the United States?

[Scott McMahon]

No, she left to go back to the province. She had a nervous breakdown. And, you know, she had a lot. She had to deal with all, everything.

[Don Fraser]

Who was feeding you?

[Scott McMahon]

By that time, I was established enough where I could get people to buy me food and bring me stuff. And my uncle would send somebody once a week.

[Don Fraser]

Okay, you could find your way. Yeah, got it.

[Scott McMahon]

So I got out the next day. It was international news because I was the longest American detained in a foreign country without a trial. They came up that night, my wife and my son and my daughter. They got in late, it was about midnight. But when they got to the house, I'm thinking, you know, it's going to be great, right, kids, your daddy, daddy, you know, hugs. And was totally different.

[Don Fraser]

Yeah, I can imagine.

[Scott McMahon]

When they walk through the door, my daughter's kind of like looking around. My son's kind of like, okay, oh. I'm like, hey, like, come here. And they're kind of standoffish a little bit.

[Don Fraser]

Yeah. I'm sure they didn't know how to engage with you at first.

[Scott McMahon]

Right, right. So I said, okay, come upstairs. And I took him upstairs. And when we got upstairs, I closed the door and started tickling them. And then they were like laughing and then everything was cool. So we were good.

[Don Fraser]

Nice.

[Scott McMahon]

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[Kevin Allison]

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[Scott McMahon]

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[Scott McMahon]

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[Kevin Allison]

This is Risk. This is Roy Spiegler behind me now, and we just heard from Scott McMahon. Scott is a musician and a writer currently working on a book about his experience for which he's looking for a publisher. If you've got a lead, let us know and we'll put you in touch. And our dear friend Don Fraser did a great job having that conversation with Scott. Now, I want to have a little heart to heart with you. In the middle of the episode here today, I just want to talk about how this podcast Risk, would be such an amazing addition to people's lives if only more people heard about it and gave it a try. That's why I want to get that old social media hashtag of ours going again. Listen to Risk. This spring, we've been pulling out all the stops to give you programming that you can be sharing with friends and family and posting about online. Several months ago, when it started to look like Risk might really and truly finally have to close shop after 16 years, we decided not just to switch networks this spring in an attempt to save ourselves, but to fill our spring programming with jaw dropping, unforgettable, super important stories to really work harder than ever to bring you the cream of the crop. And we reran Best of Risk 12, an episode that anyone with a little curiosity about risk should not miss. The young woman with a cannibal dad. The fella taken hostage by a drug cartel. The fella who saved children from child sex rings. We revisited JP Michaels incredible story. A hard landing about his girlfriend dying of cancer. But lots of secrets then got revealed. And when we talked to him 10 years later, so many more twists and turns were revealed. We ran Annie Carnreich's story, the bestest. That story alone deserves awards. For crying out loud. A trans woman sharing about having to do the unthinkable to someone she loved in self defense and being unjustifiably imprisoned for it. Lecount Holmes coming of age story, I can honestly say is like none I've ever heard before. The sheer amount of breathtaking honesty and brilliant story craft and compassion and empathy poured into this show, it is so much of what the world needs right now. I keep quoting Alan Rickman when he said, the more we're governed by idiots and have no control over our destinies, the more we need to tell stories to each other about who we are and why we are and where we come from and what might be possible. So I am asking you to do whatever you can to spread the word about the Risk podcast more than ever before. Anyone who is new to the show in the spring of 2026, they're gonna be bowled over by these recent episodes. So tell people how these stories moved you, made you laugh, made you pull over the car because you couldn't drive and feel that much at the same time. Give them links to particular episodes, play stories for them in the car with you or just sitting around the living room. Get loud on Instagram and TikTok and Facebook, on all the socials. We're at Risk show and we have all kinds of video promos that you can share with people that will really capture people's interest. Don't forget the hashtag listen to Risk. Hashtag listen to Risk. Word of mouth is everything for an independent show like ours. We don't have a corporate parent, we don't have a marketing budget. What we have is you. You know, we're making something real here, something of profound worth, something that changes lives. So help us find more of the people who need it. And just remember that hashtag listen to Risk. Okay, up next we're gonna have Chelsea Dalce. She should shared this story in conversation with me. Now, Chelsea was in one of my eight week long online storytelling workshops and anyone can email me about [e-mail] what you're about to hear came about in part because of some of what happened in that workshopping process. And I'll say more about Chelsea in a bit. And to give you a fair warning, this story is about a day addiction and there is a death in it. And here is Chelsea now with a story we call post mortem.

[Chelsea Dy]

I'm gonna take you back to 2011 in Philadelphia. I was a medical student returning from a year long absence. And in that time I was going to rehab to explain a little bit about how I got there. I need to take you back way further. I started using drugs and alcohol when I was very young. I grew up in a small town, very small and quite affluent. Although some of the people that lived there probably wouldn't say that. It was some 1 percenters and then a lot of 10 percenters, I like to say. And they kind of programmed us to think that we were middle class growing up, which is pretty strange, but right?

[Kevin Allison]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chelsea Dy]

We grew up without consequences really. And in my case, I feel like I got kind of all of the negative outcomes of this kind of small town, Pleasantville living. I had health problems when I was very young. That was traumatic. Kind of pulled me out of the way that regular kids were going. I got bullied very badly. And from a very young age I was clearly very, very bright. And really what it was was a photographic memory. I have a recording memory. So literally everything that goes into my brain gets recorded in there in all dimensions. And I'm able to recall that very easily. So I never had to study. But I got along pretty well. After some of these traumatic experiences as a kid started compounding. I turned to what some of the other outcasts and weirdos were doing at the time, which was drinking, experimenting with weed, experimenting with cocaine. At a very young age we called it partying. It was kind of just accepted. It's what we all did. And it worked for me because I could work hard and play hard. I was the president of the freshman class, but I only made it to 50 days of school my freshman year because I was getting bullied so badly. I got into nyu. I graduated NYU with honors again. Blasting through cocaine every weekend, just partying my face off. I wrote my 20 page honors thesis on a three day cocaine bender. I would love to see it now at the time remember thinking it was brilliant, but who knows about that. But I kind of continued to have random health problems, autoimmune diseases, some mental health issues, kind of after some of the traumas that happened. And by the time that I got to graduating from college, I was ready to go to medical school, which is what I had always dreamt of doing. It was the dream that my mom wanted me to be a doctor, so I wanted to be a doctor too, so. So I went into medical school having some autoimmune issues and Lyme disease. And I was prescribed Vicodin for those things. Then quickly after that, I was prescribed OxyContin for those things.

[Kevin Allison]

Oh, wow.

[Chelsea Dy]

And then soon after that, because my pain just escalated as I went on more pain medication. Cause that's what happens to your system is that pain serves you. So if you are numbing yourself to pain, you need more pain medication, you grow more pain receptors, you have more pain, you need more pain medication. It becomes a cycle. And ultimately they put me on fentanyl. They prescribed me fentanyl patches.

[Don Fraser]

Wow.

[Chelsea Dy]

And I. Yeah. At 21 years old and in medical school, and it kind of crashed and burned around me. And I took off a year to go get help. And in that year, I got a lot of help, but didn't like immediately take to that help. I was very stubborn and thought that I knew what I was doing. I went to three rehabs. I was in nine months of sober living at the time. I just kind of took all those things for granted. And the privilege that I received was a life with not severe consequences. I always had somewhere to sleep when I wanted to go get help. It was there for me when I needed it, even if I didn't want to take it right away.

[Kevin Allison]

Were you starting to use things like Fentanyl or oxycontin kind of things along with the cocaine? Yes, like mixing.

[Chelsea Dy]

So really the thing that did me, and I was very judgmental of my friends who were using opiates. As a person staying up three to four days on cocaine a week every week, I was highly judgmental of my friends who are now succumbing to the opiate crisis and just saying, oh, I don't understand how they could do that and throw their life away. And then I was prescribed it. And what it did was we called it landing gear. Me and my partner at the time would call it landing gear. Cause after a three day cocaine bender, I have health problems. I would have migraines. I would be violently, violently ill. Oh, my God. And taking the opiates kind of like took those consequences away, you know. And then eventually it became more manageable to just do the opiates as opposed to the kind of insanity of three days of partying and wild sex and not being present, not being able to get my work done. It made more sense in my addict mind to be high on opiates, but you can't study on opiates. For me, my brilliant photographic memory turned off and I couldn't recall things like I used to be able to do. And I found out in medical school I actually have what some people would consider A learning disability. But really, I think it's just a divergence, like a neurodivergence, you know? But I never learned how to study. And with that and the opiates, I hit a wall. Also, as I'm coming back to medical school, I had been estranged from the single most important partner I had had in my entire life. I referred to him earlier, my partner in crime, Alex. And we had grown up in the same small town. We met in preschool. Very similar. We were very, very brilliant, but struggled in school in different ways. Coped by using drugs, coped by partying and letting loose and being the mayors of the party, always. And when I went to rehab, he didn't. And that year in rehab and sober living and all those things, they really conditioned me to believe that if we got back together, we would kill each other.

[Kevin Allison]

Oh, yeah.

[Chelsea Dy]

That was a very hard reality for me to accept. We were enmeshed. We were, later on, I realized codependent. But we were kind of clinging to one another to get through the world. We were surviving together, and we had some wonderful times before all the wheels came off. I look back now, and it's. It was hard for me to remember the fond memories for a long time, and now I'm. I'm starting to let them in. So. So taking you back to me returning to medical school. I had done all this rehab. I was feeling on top of the world, like, oh, I'm getting this second chance. I'm really awesome because I was able to overcome this thing. And now I'm back, and this is gonna be my underdog story, and it's gonna be amazing. And I was not back very long before I was faced with my first real temptation. I was looking at a journal on the day of my white coat ceremony, which is in medical school. In the very beginning of your first year, everyone gets their short white coats to say that you're a student and not a doctor. And there's a big ceremony where all your friends and family come. And I had already done this one time the couple years before, and I was high at that, and I was very proud of myself and thinking, like, oh, I'm gonna show everybody. This is a big comeback. I opened this journal, and two little pieces of fentanyl patch fell out into my lap.

[Kevin Allison]

Oh.

[Chelsea Dy]

And we used to chew on them to get the drugs out in a very concentrated way. And there was literally no thought. There was no logical thought that occurred. I just put them in my mouth, and I started chewing on them. And within 45 minutes, I was downstairs at my white coat ceremony, literally nodding out.

[Scott McMahon]

Wow.

[Chelsea Dy]

And I hadn't used opiates in a long time, so I was very affected. I was nodding out. I'm looking around at all these people with all their families. I'm sweating in this polyester white coat in summer, and I am mortified. You know, it was. That moment was one of the most shameful moments I had had in my life up until that point, Because I was very aware that who I was in that moment was not who I believed myself to be. And I didn't really feel much control about that. And, you know, my family was all there. They're all rooting for me. They're so excited. They're thinking that, oh, my God, we have our child back. She's gonna make it. It's gonna be wonderful. And the truth is, like, I had to put a wall around whatever that feeling of responsibility was and just keep going. And I went upstairs to my dorm room. I passed out, took a little nap. I woke up and went to a frat party, which I had not been to in many, many years, or it felt like many years. At the time, I was 25. I went to this frat party. I was still fucked up from the fentanyl I was drinking, which I also hadn't done in a year. And I was just like, screw it. Let's go. Let's do this.

[Kevin Allison]

Off the wagon.

[Chelsea Dy]

Off to the races. Off the wagon. Let's go. I picked up a much younger and very handsome frat boy at the frat party, and I took him back to my dorm room. And that was entirely disappointing. We were going up in the elevator, and we had been talking a bunch as we had walked from the frat house through the quad into my dorm room. And I realized, like, oh, my God, this guy sucks. This guy's terrible. Oh, my God. He had, like, you know, like, big dick energy. He had big dumb.

[Kevin Allison]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Dy]

And just. He might have been smart enough to get into medical school, but he just could not see the world outside of him and his penis. And it was highly disappointing. And I had come off of this, you know, eight year relationship with Alex. We had grown up together, but we got together when I was 19, and I was missing him. He was nearby, you know, he was in the next town over, but we hadn't connected yet. This made me realize how much I was giving up by the choices we made to do drugs.

[Kevin Allison]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Dy]

So the next morning, we woke up. I was violently hungover from the opiates, the booze, all the things that I was trying to do. We ran across campus. We went into the anatomy lab where we were meeting our cadavers for the first time. And there was.

[Kevin Allison]

Oh, my God, yes.

[Chelsea Dy]

So anatomy lab. Like, you know, you walk through the door and the. The smell hits you. It's like formaldehyde. And if you've smelled what rotting flesh smells like, it's that. It's really that. And I again. And the best part is we walked in, you know, we ran in, and it was in the middle of a moment of silence. It was just the worst moment to walk in. And there's a million bodies in the room all covered in white sheets, and all of these very solemn medical students looking down. And we come clattering in there and interrupt the moment of silence. Highly embarrassing. But again, it was this moment where I had to be like, this is not me. This is not my value system. This is not like, how am I ending up in this situation? Which was my real problem. Not what did I do to get into this situation, but how did I end up in this situation and not really able to take responsibility for it. And after that, I was really, really disappointed in myself. And I was like, that's it. I'm not going to do this anymore. That was just a one off. I had been saying that for a year and doing it repeatedly, but I was like, I really mean it this time. I started going to AA every night, which I had been doing while I was in treatment and stuff like that. And that was helpful for a little while. And then there was a hurricane that came through, and everything shut down. My AA meetings were canceled, school was canceled. There was nothing going on. I was bored as hell. And I was like, I'm gonna call Alex. I'm gonna call Alex, my partner in crime and see what he's up to and just kind of dangle, you know, maybe we can hang out and see if he's still using and whatever. Cause when I'm bored, what I like to do is get high. I like to create something else to distract me from that silence that I have to sit in. So I called Alex. I took him in Philadelphia. There's a neighborhood called Kensington where people are. There's a lot of people that are living on the street. They describe it as an open air drug market, and that's very much what it is. And I showed him where to get heroin, and I told him I needed to go stop somewhere to get needles. I had been up there in the very beginning of our year of estrangement. After my first rehab, one of my first major fuck ups was meeting someone from rehab and going to go relapse with them. And that person showed me everything I needed to know about how to become an IV drug user.

[Kevin Allison]

Oh, wow.

[Chelsea Dy]

Up until that point, I had only. I had snorted oxycontin, I had snorted cocaine. I had done a bunch of these things that felt more like partying. And I really got set off on a different path after that. We went on a nine day bender, me and this guy, back when I first got out of rehab, and I went right back into rehab after. So I was still hung up on the fact that the people that were helping me in treatment were telling me that if I got back together with Alex, we'd kill each other.

[Scott McMahon]

Right.

[Chelsea Dy]

So we. We went up there under the auspices that he was gonna snort heroin, and I was going to do whatever I needed to do. And it wasn't. We weren't gonna talk about it, and it was gonna be like a little secret. And of course, that wasn't what happened. We went back to my medical school dorm room, and I went into the bathroom, and at that point, I was shooting heroin and cocaine, which is a trip, but that's what that rehab guy had taught me how to do.

[Don Fraser]

Mm.

[Chelsea Dy]

So I showed Alex how to do it. It was sort of an inevitability, and I didn't think too hard about it. It was, this is my partner in crime. This is what I'm up to. I'm gonna show you what to do.

[Kevin Allison]

Oh, my gosh.

[Chelsea Dy]

And we did that. We kind of decided together that maybe the rehab people were right and that we might kill one another if we keep doing this. So we swore off each other, swore off the heroin. I would go back to school, and then he would go his separate ways. And, you know, I kept thinking, every time, this is it. I'm gonna be sober this time. I'm gonna do it. I would go to an AA meeting, take a 24 hour coin, which is the coin you take when you're swearing off the substance. And I would do that over and over again. I was feeling somewhat responsible for Alex, so I really distanced myself from him. And I would go find some other guy that I knew from rehab, pick him up, go up to Kensington, get drugs. It was this cycle while I'm still in medical school and trying to go to classes and trying to go to the anatomy lab and trying to participate in all these things, and at the same time, sneaking off to my dorm room to do these three and four Day benders. And I wasn't, like, using and then being a functional member of society. No, no. I was isolating for three or four days in my dorm room with usually a guy and with whatever drugs that we could get at the time. And then staying there until we had shot all the drugs. And I would wake up the first day after that, it was usually a Monday. And I would feel like absolute garbage. Physical garbage. Pounding, headache, sweating all over the place. And just saying, I will never do this again. I'm never gonna do this again. This is crazy. This is not me. I'm never gonna do this again. And then the next day, I would start beating myself up. I'd feel a little physically better. I would start saying, how can you do this? You're a piece of shit. This is like. This is what you do every time. You're terrible. And then Wednesday, I would go to class, and I would feel like, hey, things aren't so bad. I would go to a meeting on Wednesday night. I would go report to my Young People's AA meeting. And I would say, hey, I'm doing this thing. I totally changed. I'm never gonna go back. And there was a lot of people in the room that knew that I was just gonna go back. Cause I kept doing it over and over. And then Thursday, I would feel kind of excellent. I'd feel pretty decent. And I would go to my classes Thursday night, I'd get bored. And I would call another dude. And I would start it all over again. And I did it from August until early October. I just did it over and over again every couple weeks. It would be Alex. Alex would be the guy. But we were under this agreement that whatever we did was gonna stay in this little bubble. We couldn't get back together. That would certainly be the end of us. He was a drug. He was a drug to me, too. It was the same thing. It was like I couldn't set him aside the same way I couldn't set the drugs aside. And so I continued to do this over and over and over again. And late September, I had been in the anatomy lab once a week or twice a week for many weeks at that point. And I was really in a depraved state. I was going in. I was wearing turtlenecks under my scrubs. Because the thing about shooting cocaine is it blows out your veins. So you get these abscesses, and you get, like, giant bruises. And then you can't use those veins. So you have to move up. You have to move up your arm, move to another place. And I did that over and over again to the point where I couldn't be showing my neck because I was trying to shoot in my neck. So I'm in medical school, which is this insane opportunity for anybody, you know, and high stress. And high stress. I'm like desperately trying to pull this off. But me showing up with my lovely anatomy lab partners. I would work with three other people throughout the semester. And they were so kind to me. I was going into the body with my long sleeves tucked into my gloves because I couldn't roll my sleeves up.

[Kevin Allison]

Oh my God.

[Chelsea Dy]

And just trying to play it off. And like the one person was so sweet and he was like, you know, have you thought about just rolling up your sleeves and maybe you wouldn't make such a mess? And I'm like, oh, yeah, it was mortifying. But I really was just like on a train that wasn't stopping. I didn't know how to end this. And my grand plan of making medical school my big comeback was done. It was toast in front of my eyes unless I did something drastic. And then the first week in October, I had been with Alex over the weekend and. And we had gotten to him Monday morning. And that's usually when whatever guy I had would leave. Cause the drugs would be gone. But Alex and I had this long term relationship where we cared for one another. And he was always really lovely about helping me through these hangovers I would get. Cause he wouldn't get those kinds of hangovers. He would get me a cold compress, get me water, take care of me. But this Monday I woke up and he wasn't in the bed and. And that felt really weird. And then I went out to the coffee table and saw my ATM card sitting on the table. And I was like, this is also really weird. And so I went on online banking, which was somewhat new at that point, or I was new to it. And I saw that every time that Alex and I had gotten together, he had been taking out money from my account. So I would send him with the ATM card to go get the cash and then we'd go get the drugs. And then later on, at some point when I was unconscious, he would go down with the ATM card and get more money out that he would then take. So I looked and my balance was below zero. We had effectively drained my entire student loans for the entire semester.

[Scott McMahon]

Oh, Jesus.

[Chelsea Dy]

Which was about $6,000. And I was floored. I was devastated at first. It was betrayal. You know, we didn't do this to one another. If there was somebody getting something over on someone, it was us on them, it wasn't on. It just wouldn't happen. And then I think the second thing was like the reality check that I had taught this person I loved the most horrible, dangerous, sinister thing that I had ever learned. And I taught it to him. And I had just come off of all of this treatment. He had not been to treatment one time and he didn't have the money to go get drugs. I gave him the card and he got the money out and he was able to. To kind of create a habit in that time that I wasn't even thinking about. I was so self centered. I was so in my own head that I was so concerned with trying to fit into medical school that I didn't think twice about introducing the person who loved me most in the world into something so terrible.

[Kevin Allison]

Oh, God.

[Chelsea Dy]

And it took me a very long time to understand that that was part of what changed in that moment. But that day, I did what I usually did. I felt like garbage, had a giant headache. I went to an AA meeting, took a 24 hour coin. I came back to campus where I was still trying to prove that I was somehow a normal medical student and everything was fine. So I went and auditioned for the acapella singing group, the Arrhythmias.

[Kevin Allison]

The what?

[Chelsea Dy]

The Arrhythmias.

[Scott McMahon]

Oh, it's cute.

[Chelsea Dy]

It's cute. And you know, and like without any, like I was sweating, I was probably green, you know what I mean? And unable to really sing. I think I tried to sing a Lady Gaga song, which is also bold. And then, you know, the next day I didn't think about using drugs again. And the day after that I didn't think about using drugs. I was just so disturbed. It was the biggest reality check I'd ever gotten in my life. In the sense that it wasn't a game. This wasn't the cute little town that we grew up in. This wasn't like the no consequences, nothing's gonna go wrong. I trusted my path. I really believed that I was gonna get out of this. But I didn't think about the fact that there might be casualties other than me.

[Kevin Allison]

Right?

[Chelsea Dy]

And there was. Alex died of an overdose five months after that.

[Kevin Allison]

Oh, my God.

[Chelsea Dy]

And I was five months sober. And I stayed sober. And I built this fortress around the idea that I could be responsible in any way. I had a lot of people ask me. There were people that assumed that I had some influence on him. I lost a lot of my friends after that. And I think now I'm looking back and I'm like, oh, that's why that makes sense. It makes sense because they thought I was responsible. And at a time when I didn't see it, but I couldn't. If I was going to live, I absolutely could not take on the depth and breadth of that reality that I had been responsible for teaching the person I love most, the thing that killed him.

[Scott McMahon]

Wow.

[Chelsea Dy]

And it took until trying to share this story to get there. I tried to write the story, and it had a bunch of different viewpoints that were not feeling real. And on the reflection, it's because this is probably the hardest truth that I've ever had to accept, is that this is what happens. Someone taught me how to do it. And the way that he was going, someone else might have taught him. And it's the same thing might have happened. I don't know. I used to dwell a lot in that. Maybe someone else would have done it, or maybe you would have done it anyway, or I had to. You know, I had to let his story be how he got there on his own. But I think that this is the hard and real truth of it. And this is why addiction is so insidious and so scary. And so it just. It divides your own mind. It divides you from the people that you love. It, like, allows you to sit next to your own denial and still behave in ways that hurt yourself and others. So, yeah, I mean, I guess it's not the end of the story. It's just not. That was 14 years ago, and I came to this massive realization two weeks ago working on this story.

[Kevin Allison]

Incredible. Holy fucking shit. That is amazing. Because I remember earlier drafts of the story, you and I talking to each other, and an issue came up, which was why? How were you finally able to stay off of it all? You know, how were you able to finally end that cycle? And at that time, when we were first going through, like, a first draft or whatever, you weren't so sure. You were like, it didn't have that sort of typical AA kind of ending. And no dismissal of aa. When I say typical, that there's often, like, this finding God or hitting rock bottom and then seeing the light, that kind of thing. But it's taken you all this time, I think, to realize, holy shit, my psyche couldn't have taken all that in at that time and needed to kind of keep me a little bit protected from the sheer gravity of the responsibility.

[Chelsea Dy]

I buried it for survival.

[Kevin Allison]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Dy]

And I think that I buried it so deep and under so Much that I forgot that there might even be something there. And this cracked me open. Like, it wasn't like, a little thing. This is another gift that he's given me, is that I can thrive even in a different way. Now I feel like maybe I really have been just trying to survive for these past 14 years. I just turned 40, and I realized I haven't planned a life. I'm doing all these things, and I have a life, but I really have a hard time planning my life forward. I don't picture what I'm gonna be when I'm 60. You know, I kind of stopped at 30 years old. And then every. Every time I hit a milestone, I'm like, maybe another five years I can picture. And I realized, you know, a month into 40, I'm like, I haven't pictured till 45. I haven't let myself do it. Cause I think part of me is buried with him. Like, part of me is stuck there. And I think that I need to feel bad about this. Like, I feel like I need to feel every part of this, all this responsibility. Like, I don't need to let it bury me now. But I absolutely have to forgive myself for taking away the most important thing in my own life.

[Kevin Allison]

Wow. Holy shit. That is incredible. That is really. I'm honored. I am so honored that you shared that.

[Chelsea Dy]

I feel really, risk has always been something like, really listening to risk coincided with my sobriety, and hearing all these kinds of different stories and ways of being really opened up my eyes to being forthright and sharing. And so taking your storytelling workshop and workshopping this story, it's just added a new dimension to what I can do, I think, in my life by being realistic and being real with about what has happened.

[Kevin Allison]

Wow. That was extraordinary. I'm so touched that it came out so different this time. Let me remember. So Cindy Freeman handles the pitches for Risk Stories. And when you first pitched, I think she said something like, this is an extraordinary story, but I think there's some blockage there, maybe some PTSD or, like, there's some aspect that. That that's missing from it. Then you joined my workshop, one of my online workshops that I've been teaching this summer. And I knew that you were having frustration with the story there too, because you were getting mixed notes. Some of the notes that you'd gotten from our coaches behind the Scene at Risk were clashing with some of the notes you were getting from students in the class, which is kind of occupational hazard. You know, like, that can be a confusing part of Workshopping a story no matter what. But it's fascinating. Like, of course, I didn't fully understand that aspect of the story, that there was still some. That there was blockage there.

[Chelsea Dy]

Literally, major, major, major. And I think that frustration it was with me, you know, it was easier to be frustrated, going, this is, you know, I don't understand this feedback. They're saying one thing and then. And like, they told me to take Alex out and they told me to focus on, you know, the reality was, like, I felt deeply that there was depth missing from my story. The real feelings there was missing. And originally I was trying to tell this story based on the details of the depravity that occurred while in medical school. You know, and I was really leaning and like I said, I have this memory where I remember every single thing that's gone in. So when I try to look back on something, it's like Google Maps. I can just zoom and zoom and zoom. And sometimes it's great to have lots of details, but I, you know, instead of going deep, I was like going wide or something. You know, I was. But I really don't think that I had access to these feelings. And I didn't even think I. I was aware, but I didn't think I felt them. I really didn't. I would tell people, no, no, it's weird. I don't feel any. Anything like that. I really don't. And that's not the same thing as not having those feelings. Not feeling those feelings is not the same thing as not having having those feelings. And when I took a little moment and I said, there's something missing, I have to go and try to figure out if there is something more that I'm trying to say. I invited Alex in in a way that I don't think that I had up until this point. I felt like respectful distance from him in whatever afterlife situation. But even this morning, getting ready for this, I talked to him and felt him in a way that, you know, I haven't really been able to. I was trying to remember last night, like, what it was like to be around him. And I don't. I just. What I did was I shrunk him into these stories, these wild stories from when we were in high school together. And, like, the stories that he would tell about his life, I would retell. But that was a bit of a cop out or it was a way to cope.

[Kevin Allison]

Yeah. Wow, that is so incredible. And it's funny that that makes that one step about, like, making amends make sense to Me now, in a way maybe that I hadn't completely thought about before or completely processed. I totally appreciated what you just said about not feeling feelings is not the same thing as not having them. And there's a similar thing that happens where intellectually we can say something and know that it's ultimately true, but unless we have the experience of feeling it all the way through, we don't know exactly how true it is. You know, truly.

[Chelsea Dy]

And where those feelings go is a lot. That's where some health. I have autoimmune diseases, I have stress related disorders, I have mental illnesses that are affected by stress. Like all those things when you just compound them and stick them places so that you don't have to be right with them. It's a way to get by. But it doesn't go away. It just becomes something you can't recognize, right?

[Kevin Allison]

Yeah. Holy shit.

[Chelsea Dy]

And this took like. I am so willing to go there. I have been through so much therapy, like I graduated therapy after being in it for a lot of my life a year ago with the understanding that if something came up, I would go seek it again. But this is, I think like this extra dimension that I wasn't getting there, just telling the story over. I have to really do work to dig this out of the mire and muck inside of me and the real survival part of me that's like, no, no, no. If you know this, you clearly won't make it. You know, like that sentiment that I had 14 years ago kind of didn't leave in some way, I think. And I think that it takes invitation and space. And doing those drafts of this story has been very uncomfortable. You know, I've experienced a lot of doubt about a lot of things. I really gotten down on myself about a lot of aspects of it. But at the end of the day, it's so worth it. And if I had stopped at any point, I don't know that I would have made this self discovery that like, it's so new that there's only more space to take up with it. There's only more reality to give myself about this.

[Kevin Allison]

That's incredible. And I think a part of that is workshopping a story in order to bring it to this audience, you know what I mean? Like, there was a gal who. The first ever child molestation story that we had on the show, which was very early on, it was in the first year or two of the show, she said, oh, I've been talking about that in therapy for 10 years now, but somehow sharing it on the show that way helped me, like, feel some ownership of it all or, like, get to deeper parts of it in a way that I didn't know was gonna happen.

[Chelsea Dy]

Extra dimensions, for sure.

[Kevin Allison]

Yeah, Yeah. I just shared a story with Slate about this stupid prank that I pulled on a kid that I had a crush on in high school where I mailed him my poop. And I have told that story, you know, to risk audiences before at live shows, just as an in between stories thing, you know, like just as a little anecdote between the story of that. And I've always just ended it with, why did I do that? Who knows? You know?

[Don Fraser]

Ha, ha, ha, ha ha.

[Kevin Allison]

And then this gal from Slate asked me, oh, I would like you to write that for. For slate.com as a personal essay. So I started writing it, and as I was turning in drafts, she was asking me, yeah, but why really did you do this? But wait, how were you feeling at that particular moment and how were you feeling the next day? And asking those kind of questions, I was like, oh, yeah, there's some fucking reasons I mailed someone my poop. Like, now I'm able to see what was going on with my psyche that week.

[Chelsea Dy]

Absolutely. And a lot of the places where I've healed are not places where they want you to dilate and express. You know, like, AA has a very. There's a lot of customs and rituals about how you share in there. And I learned how to kind of like sterilize my stories to make them palatable in that certain aspect for aa. Same thing with therapy is like, I was in therapy for long enough that if I spoke about something with too much emotion, it was like, oh, do we need to adjust your meds? Like, it was always like a. Like some, like, if I shared with friends, like, there's no way to share some of this stuff without feeling a lot. And if that's too much for everyone and I can't hold it by myself, then you just put it back on the shelf. You know what I mean? You don't go there.

[Kevin Allison]

Right.

[Chelsea Dy]

And I think that, like, having a built in witness with this storytelling thing, like whether it's an audience or you or a class or whatever, the idea that this isn't just something that's going in my journal, this is something that I'm really trying to express and communicate to another person, and then there's a consenting person on the other side that wants all of you, right?

[Kevin Allison]

Yes.

[Chelsea Dy]

And I haven't had that experience in many places in my life. Truly. Alex. Alex was one of those places, ironically. And, you know, you don't get those relationships a lot in your life. You know, your family wants you to be a certain type of way. Like, it's. Sometimes they just can't know you in the ways that they don't want to know you.

[Kevin Allison]

Right, exactly.

[Chelsea Dy]

You know, maybe in aa, there's not enough time. It might just be time. Right? Like, you might only have a minute to share, to let everybody get a turn or whatever. In group therapy, you don't want to do. Dominate the whole session. It's all these places where you can't show up fully. Well, like, storytelling is like, here's your blank slate. Serve it. Serve it to us, you know, and we want to eat it.

[Kevin Allison]

Yeah. Oh, my God, that is. I'm so touched that to think of, you know, like, this particular platform risk, especially with all of our financial struggles and shit like that, of, you know, like, going from month to month and year to year ever since pandemic of being like, holy shit, how are we gonna keep this going? And I have this newfound. This year I've had. I'm just a fatalistic kind of guy. I totally got what you were saying about not planning a few years ahead. Like, I have plenty of addictive tendencies in myself as well. In fact, I just quit drinking again, again, for the many, many, many of time. And I'm like, no, no, you. You have to move to Thailand without that, you know? But hearing you talk about this and talk about how this particular platform is a place where you have that, where you have all these consenting adults who are thoughtful and compassionate and want the whole you, that's like. It took 16 years of cultivating to really make that all that it can be. And now I'm like, oh, no. Come hell or fucking high water, you gotta keep this going, you know, for sure.

[Chelsea Dy]

For sure. It's literally not even, like, being hyperbolic. You're saving lives. You're saving the quality of life for people just by hearing that there's other people out there that are as expansive and is interesting and is different and is, you know, outside the cookie cutter thing that, you know. That's why podcasting's amazing, is it's accessible and it's right there, you know, And

[Kevin Allison]

I can't wait to hear from people who, you know, you can also never predict what kind of reactions a story is gonna get, because when a story is as told with as much heart and honesty and daring as yours today, people will have, like, breakthroughs or realizations. Eureka. Moments, whatever that might have, like, nothing to do with the actual details of your story, but because the emotional truth was there, all of a sudden someone will be like, oh my God, that's what happened to my relationship with my mom or whatever it might be, you know. So I can't wait to see what we hear from people about this story. Well, thank you so much, Chelsea. This is incredible.

[Chelsea Dy]

Thank you. Thank you for everything you're doing. You already said it. This is like God's work.

[Kevin Allison]

This is risk. This is Ariel Shalom behind me now. And we just heard from Chelsea. Dy. Now, like I said, the sort of climactic impetus bringing that story to where it finally arrived was one of my online storytelling workshops. But I want to assure everyone that there are a lot of stories, stories that we work on in those workshops that are very short, very light hearted, funny, just fun little memories. There's lots of leeway for different kinds of stories, from absolute beginners to seasoned pros. And there's another one starting on May 31st, and I'd love to tell you more about it if you just email me at [e-mail] Now, Chelsea is an artist based in Philadelphia and she is creating an immersive interactive group show featuring over a hundred artists called Room for Grief. It's free and open to the public at Cherry Street Pier in Philadelphia, running from June 5 to June 28. You can find it on Instagram at room for grief, PHL or roomfor grief.org. now, Chelsea wrote to us about how she's been since her story was first released. And she said this. I had overwhelmingly positive feedback from almost everyone I know. One of my old lab partners, my family members, mutual friends of Alex and mine from childhood, they were all said they were able to gain such an expanded perspective from hearing me speak so honestly to a third party. Strangers expressed how hearing me talk about my recovery process gave them reassurance in pursuing theirs. But at one point I reached out and shared with Kevin that someone whose opinion means very much to me, who knew Alex was well, asked me to take down the podcast episode out of fear that it would negatively affect Alex's legacy. And I responded by standing in the purpose and and power of my own lived experience. And while it felt awful to disappoint them and makes me sad to be disconnected from this person, I felt it was the only decision I could make. I'm not willing to be the artist stuck on one bad review, even if it's from someone very important to me. Instead, I feel galvanized to continue sharing my art and my stories. Well, you can find Chelsea online at Chelsea does underscore it on Instagram and don't forget it means the world to us. If you can share the podcast with people, use that hashtag listen to Risk. Our social media is all at risk show and we have wonderful trailers, video trailers for stories and episodes there that are great to be shared sharing with folks. You can also give us a five star review and you know, a great review on Apple podcasts or Spotify or Pod Chaser. Spread the word please. You can even we're thinking we continue always to think of new things to be doing and one of the next things we're thinking of is like leading discussion groups about stories and and helping people lead their own discussion group groups about stories. So there's so much that we intend to continue to do, but we just need to be reaching more people. So please spread the word and remember, hashtag listen to Risk. And folks, today's the day. Take a risk.

[Scott McMahon]

Sam.