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- [00:00]
Tori Weston
Foreign.
- [00:07]
Kevin Allison
Hello folks, this is Risk, the show where people tell true stories they never thought they'd dare to share. I'm Kevin Allison, coming to you from my emptying apartment in New York while I'm preparing to move to Thailand. And today we're revisiting a story by by Tori Weston. She told this on risk back in 2014 and we're going to revisit it together and have a conversation about it, Tori and myself now in 2025. And if you're hearing this on our podcast feed, be aware that you could watch this episode. Also. There's a link to that in the show notes, but all of the audio episodes going back 16 years are at risk-show.com or anywhere you can get podcasts. Now this story concerns child sexual abuse, so I wanted to give you a heads up about that. And I believe suicidal ideation is mentioned at one time as well. This episode is proof that if you check in with someone many years later about a story they once told that they might have lots of new insights into the whole matter. So this was really beautiful and fascinating. I'm so glad we did this. So a quick break and when we come back, Tori Weston and I will revisit and review the power.
- [01:43]
Tori Weston
We'll be right back.
- [01:46]
Kristen Bell
Hi, I'm Kristen Bell and if you know my husband Dax, then you also know he loves shopping for a car. Selling a car, not so much.
- [01:53]
Tori Weston
We're really doing this, huh?
- [01:54]
Kristen Bell
Thankfully, Carvana makes it easy. Answer a few questions, put in your VIN or license and done. We sold ours in minutes this morning and they'll come pick it up and pay us this afternoon.
- [02:05]
Kevin Allison
Bye bye Truckee.
- [02:06]
Kristen Bell
Of course, we kept the favorite.
- [02:10]
Kevin Allison
Hello other Truckee.
- [02:11]
Kristen Bell
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- [02:49]
Tori Weston (narration)
In one easy step, Dermalogica's daily microfoliant gives you the smooth, glowy skin you want without damaging your skin barrier. This gentle exfoliating powder activates with water to smooth out rough texture and brighten skin. It's powerful enough to deliver results, yet.
- [03:04]
Kristen Bell
Gentle enough to use every single day.
- [03:06]
Tori Weston (narration)
Even on sensitive skin. See the results for yourself. Visit dermalogica.com and use code smooth at cart for an exclusive free gift with $65 purchase.
- [03:17]
Kristen Bell
This episode is brought to you by State Farm Insurance may all seem the same on the surface, but having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like getting a speech from your third cousin's plus one at your wedding. When you needed a speech from your best man, you wouldn't settle for just any speech. So don't settle for just any insurance. When it comes to getting the help you need, State Farm is the real deal. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
- [03:44]
Tori Weston
We're back.
- [03:46]
Kevin Allison
Okay, folks, I am here today with Tori Weston and we are going to revisit one of the all time Risk classic stories, a story that Tori first shared on the show in 2014. It's great to have you here today, Tori. How you doing?
- [04:04]
Tori Weston
I'm doing great. How are you?
- [04:08]
Kevin Allison
I'm good, I'm good, all things considered. I always feel better when we, you know, look at stories and kind of consider their meaning and share them with one another. Like that's. That's become therapeutic to me nowadays, quite frankly. So I'm glad we're here together to do that.
- [04:29]
Tori Weston
Yes, very much so.
- [04:32]
Kevin Allison
Awesome. All right, so listen. We're now going to listen from the 2014 episode of Risk called the Power.
- [04:53]
Tori Weston (narration)
It's six days before my 13th birthday. And I remember laying in bed all of a sudden feeling cold against my toes and my legs. At first I thought I must have kicked off the covers. But then when I opened my eyes, I felt the linen from my nightgown over my face and trying to breathe, but the air was really dry. Then I felt something heavy, like someone was on top of me. My underwear was off. There were hands between my legs, hot breath against my neck. And I realized that it was my stepfather. And I remember hear him telling me that this is what happens to girls who think that they know everything. I don't remember how long it lasted. I just know that during the time it was happening, I kept on thinking about the dinner we had just had. We had talked about my birthday party. We were talking about what kind of cake I wanted. And I was trying to think about that instead of thinking about what was happening. And that was the last night of me being molested by my stepfather. It started out with like hugs that lasted a little bit too long to pretending that he had to go to the bathroom every time I took a shower. And I started noticing these repetitive things and kind of casually bringing it up to my mom, like, well, don't you think that's weird? And she's like, well, you know, everyone.
- [06:52]
Tori Weston
Has a busy schedule.
- [06:53]
Tori Weston (narration)
You know, you guys are getting older, so make sure you cover yourself up when you take a shower. And I didn't really think much of it until coming home from field hockey practice and I had a huge knot in my calf from like getting hit with a stick. And I was icing it and he had offered to like, take a look. And I just remember his hand going way past where I had a huge bruise. And so those kind of incidences kept on building up to doing something more the next day. I remember getting up really early. My stepfather woke up at around 5:30 in the morning to go to work. And I waited until I heard the front door close before I got into my mom's bed. I don't think my mom thought about anything of me crawling into bed with her. But I remember getting a little scared because my stepfather had walked back into the room. He looked at me just very mean, like it was almost if there wasn't a person behind the face. When he went away, I just told my mom I had a nightmare. But I didn't know how to tell her what had happened just a few hours ago. And I just remember going through the routine of getting ready for school and my mom leaving for work. Spending my school day just trying to figure out how am I supposed to tell her what had happened? What do I say? I wasn't sure what to say. I remember her getting home from work and we had to go to the store. There was no milk and bread. And I remember walking to the store, her asking about my day. And I started crying. And I didn't know how to tell her that this horrible thing had just happened. And I knew that she was looking at me, not knowing what to say but knowing there must be something wrong. And I remember grabbing what we needed to get. And right when she pulled the food stamps out of her purse, I said that Danny was molesting me. The cashier heard what I said, wasn't sure if my mom heard what I said. But I just remember my mother putting things in the bag and trying to get us out of the store. And our walk home was quiet. I was still crying, trying to tell her what had happened. But she was walking very quickly, like with purpose, trying to get back to our house. My mom opened the door And I remember looking at my stepfather, my stepfather and I, at me. 13 years old, we're the same height. I kind of sprouted up the past two years. So we were at the same height. And he had a very, like, medium build frame. When my stepfather would get upset, he would clench his fist and you could see the veins in his arm. He had a vein that would go up his neck that would pop out. And I was very nervous about what would happen next. But I remember my mom sending me and my siblings upstairs, telling us to wait up there until she told us to come down. And her and my stepfather got into an argument, yelling back and forth. And then there was a pause in the yelling and hearing. My stepfather, he had a certain rhythm when he ran up the stairs and just hearing his boots just hit every single step and running into the room and grabbing his duffel bag and then coming down the stairs and then slamming the door hard enough where the house shook. I'm not sure how we proceeded that night, but things were going to change. I wasn't sure how that change was going to happen. There was no, everything's going to be okay. There was just, you guys need to eat. Let's hurry up and get you to bed. And there was no acknowledgment of what I had just said. After my stepfather had left, he had checked himself into a mental hospital. It was good not having him in the house, but at the same time, it was hard to answer the questions. My younger siblings not knowing what was going on, why their dad wasn't there. What did I do to make him go away? I don't know what to say to anybody, and I'm not sure how to tell them what had happened. Every now and then, we would get a phone call from him. He'd want to talk to me, and I wouldn't want to talk to him on the phone. I would just pass the phone off. I remember one phone call my mom got was not from him, but from someone at the hospital saying that he tried to kill himself. When he returned home to us, he had a scar across his neck. It kind of changed the focus of, what did he do to Tori, to, oh, my God, we have to make sure that this man doesn't try to kill himself. I wasn't sure how to process that. I wasn't sure what to make of it. But I knew that everything we did was to make sure that he was comfortable, which I kind of thought was weird because nobody seemed to be checking in on me to see if I was Comfortable or if I was okay. But also, what made everything a little bit more awkward was coming home from school one day and my mom sitting at the kitchen table when she's supposed to be at work. And there was a social worker at the kitchen table. And I was told that there was a report made of me being abused, and they couldn't disclose who reported it. I was asked a whole bunch of questions. I think the weirdest thing was that the social worker insisted that we drive to the emergency room for me to get checked out. I think it was like, a month or so after everything had happened, so I really didn't want to go. My mother was kind of resistant, but he said that they have the right to take me away for 72 hours and not tell her where they take me. So my mother kind of complied, and they made me dress in a hospital gown, had to put my feet in the stirrups. I overheard the nurses while I was waiting for the doctor, and one of the nurses had asked, oh, what is she here for? And one of the nurses like, oh, something about her dad molesting her or getting raped or something. But, you know, she lives in that part of the city where, who knows, it's probably some boyfriend or whatever. So it's kind of like my first indication that this is something that you're taught to speak the truth and tell everyone who are supposed to help you that this is happening and they're supposed to protect you. I kind of started getting the feeling that the quieter I kept, the less I said, the better I was. And after the whole ordeal with the social worker listening to him and my mother talk, she asked like, well, what was going to happen? And he said that if there is any evidence of abuse, that they would probably take all four of us out of the home and that they would end up splitting us up. And my mom asked, well, where would you take them? And he told her that because my younger brother and sister were under the age of nine years old, that they would probably bring them to a foster family. And that because my other sister and I were teenagers, that they would take us to a teen shelter. And my mom was like, well, how are they safer if they're in a teen shelter? And he didn't have an answer. So the idea of being in a place where I would be even less protected and not knowing how to navigate whether I would be safe or not was scarier than having to possibly live underneath the same roof with my stepfather going to school the next day and kind of trying to figure out how to get myself out of this situation that I was in. At my school, there were a few girls who, some of them lived in group homes, and some of them actually lived with designated adults that took in short term foster kids. And then there were some that lived in an actual group home that was run by the state. And I remember one of the girls saying how she didn't really like her mom, and her mom had too many rules. And so she knew that if she told a social worker or somebody at school that her mom's boyfriend was messing around with her, then she would be able to get away from her mother. I kind of confessed to this one girl in my class, and she basically said, you have to lie. You don't want to come to the group home. You got to watch your back, not just from the other girls that might steal your stuff or try to beat you up, but from the staff. You never know what staff member is trying to get something from you or may try to do something to you. You're gonna have to lie. Having all that information told to me from a girl who a month later moved to another group home and never saw her again was kind of hard to take because it's like you're told to tell the truth and you're told these are the people to help you. So the social worker, before he left, handed me a card to report anything that I might not feel comfortable reporting in front of my mother. After speaking to that girl, I called him up and I told him I felt really bad about everything that was going on, and I didn't know that this was going to happen and that I lied. And I was upset because my mom was paying more attention to my stepfather, and I wanted her to pay attention to me. So I thought if I said that he was doing these things to me, that she would start paying more attention to me. And I started just basically recanting everything that I had said. But also, whatever exam that they gave me at the hospital was inconclusive. So they couldn't really tell if anything had happened to me. So they didn't really have a case. I remember the pastor of the church kind of having a family consultation and special prayer, and my mom thinking that the only counseling that I would need would be the pastor and I should tell him if there was anything wrong. And I was 13 years old, and who's going to want to talk to their pastor about something that they can barely understand themselves? The more everything got out and the more I kind of wasn't denying that it didn't happen. It made it so. Like, there were some people, like, some of my uncles that kind of wanted to believe me. But then there were other people that were skeptical because I had just told a social worker that I had lied about it. So I felt like in this weird moral situation, and I wasn't about to stand in front of a pastor and try to explain the other. One of the reasons why we kept on going to church was my stepfather eventually moved back into our house. My mom felt that it was the perfect time to renew our faith and to renew our dedication to God. And so instead of just going to church on Sundays and going to Sunday school, we were now going to prayer meeting, and we were going to Bible study and extra services to kind of like, make it seem like everything was fine and we were just being a more dedicated family to the church. But also the fact that my stepfather, who before all of this never went to church with us, started going to church with us. And that made it very uncomfortable for me, because now it wasn't just like having to be in the same house with him. It was hearing him participate in prayer and to testify, which is a big thing in Baptist churches, where you have a point in the service where you tell the congregation how good the Lord has been to you, and hearing him talk about the devil trying to break up his family and we have to keep the black family together, and having to sit next to that and having to hear it and try to look like I wasn't upset about it and not give anyone anything to gossip about, because that was another thing my mom was afraid of, was before all of this, I would participate in everything. And then I just stopped participating. I stopped saying yes to things, and I didn't feel comfortable volunteering anymore. I remember my mother yelling at me, like, you're making people talk. Why don't you want to do these things? You have to start doing these things again, because people are going to start saying stuff about us. So kind of saving face in front of church. And, you know, these are people that have known me since I was born. So I think that it was kind of unrealistic for a mother to think that they wouldn't notice a change. So having him around during all of those things made it worse. So I just kind of tried to, like, sit with my friends at church instead of sit with my family. But the other thing I did notice, which was kind of like a glimmer of hope, was when my stepfather moved back in, my grandmother made it so we were never alone. With him. And I remember my grandmother telling me how much she didn't really like him. And she never really said that, like, I believe what happened to you or anything, but she said that he's not right, and I've never liked him. And so after school, we would go to her house, which she lived right next door, and we would wait until my mom got home, and that's when we would go to our house. So my stepfather would be in the house all by himself. So my grandmother kind of took it upon herself to be a presence, Even to the point where before school, she would come over to the house and make sure that we were all ready. And if he had the day off or something, she would come over after my mom would leave work and make sure that everybody was all dressed and everything and ready to go. So it was her action that made me realize that I wasn't crazy, that there is something wrong with this person, but also kind of made me realize that I had ally in all of this. It wasn't a very overt ally, but it was more of, okay, at least there is somebody in this situation, in this household that kind of sees what I am seeing. So besides amping up our religious activities, my mother made it a point that we eat dinner together, you know, more than just on Sundays. It was awkward because it was almost like a sitcom where the mom sat at one end of the table and the father sat on the other and the children on both sides. And this particular night, my mom had made my favorite meal, chicken parmesan. And my little sister kept on talking about hula hooping at school and how she could hula hoop the longest. I was trying to just make it through the dinner. And the only seat that was available at the table, by the time I got to the table was next to him. I was trying to, like, sit in a way where I didn't have to look at him. And my mother, she was like, tori, you say the prayer. And I didn't really want to talk. I didn't really want to say anything to anybody. And I just remember kind of mumbling it to the plate, like, looking down at the plate and saying, God is great. God is good. Thank you for our food. Amen. Everyone else is, like, grabbing food and putting it on a plate. And my stepfather, whenever he ate, he kind of, like, would shovel food into his mouth. My mother was constantly always telling him to slow down. You know, the food's not going anywhere. And I remember what made me turn to look at him was that rhythm stopped he had, like, sat straight up and his nostrils were flared, and it looked like he was trying to say something, but nothing was coming out of his mouth. I look the rest of the table. No one's noticing it. No one sees what's happening except for me. You know, everyone's talking about their day. My mom is talking to my siblings, and my stepfather is there with the fork in hand, sitting straight up, trying to breathe. Seeing that he notices that I'm the only person that notice in realizing that, oh, my God, he's choking. And I kept on thinking about this year that I've had to live in this house and all of this taking advantage of a lie that I told to keep us together and making it seem like he is this family man and all these people feeling sorry for him because he tried to kill himself, but then also not being able to sleep at night because this man is in this house. And I'm not sure what's gonna happen. So I'm sitting there and I'm kind of staring at him, and I thought to myself, if I just sit here and let him choke and he dies, then I won't have to sit up late at night with my field hockey stick in my hand, like, making sure he doesn't go into any of our bedrooms. Or constantly being afraid every time I would hear footsteps to the bathroom, wondering if it's his footsteps coming into my room. So. And then I thought about, well, if I sit here and he dies, people could make out his death as, like, kind of martyr him in a way. Like, you know, he was a good man, and he died in front of his family, and he was trying to keep his family together. So a part of me was like, you know, well, if that happens, then no one will ever know what I've been through, what I've had to endure. Because my lie is what kept us together. My lie is what kept this family together. So I think my action of pushing the chair back and getting up was more me doing it without realizing that, you know, all of a sudden, I'm standing up and I am wrapping my arms around him and trying to find that spot beneath his chest to put my fist. I was thinking about the video that we had watched in health class a week before about the Heimlich maneuver. But I also was in having to, like, squeeze him and try to push air up so the food would come out. Like, the power of wanting to crush him the way that I've been feeling crushed all this time. And just, you know, all this hate that I had for this man. Just kind of like wrapping my arms around him and squeezing him so tight and, like, not even thinking about saving his life. But I wanted to him to feel all of the hurt that I've been feeling. And I wanted him to, like, at least have some sort of scar or something from me doing this for making me feel so unsafe, making me, like, seem crazy in front of my mother. And I remember his head falling forward and the food just kind of plopping out of his mouth onto the plate. And I think that that's when everyone else at the table noticed that he was choking. The first sounds I heard were my siblings being like, oh, my God, that's so gross. He just threw up in his plate. Seeing my mom, like, you know, get out of her chair and, like, run over to him and like, pull her arms around him and he's like, coughing everything up. And just kind of the way that she went towards him and held him and everything. I, like, realized that the line between us was kind of drawn in some way, that our relationship is different. You know, she chose her husband and there was no asking me if I was okay or how did I know what to do or anything like that. It was asking him, are you okay? Do we have to call an ambulance? And then seeing the way that she was tending towards him, I kind of knew that I was kind of navigating not only the rest of this, but puberty, everything else on my own in some ways. But then I also, in seeing even in her arms, just how limp he was and just kind of gasping for air. And he looked up at me and it was like for those few moments, I was God. That I had the power to give life. I had the power to take life. I had the power to love and I had the power to hate. But I also knew that for the first time in that year that this man was never gonna fuck with me again.
- [30:11]
Tori Weston
We'll be right back. Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should. One, it's $15 a month. Two, seriously, it's $15 a month. Three, no big contrast. Four, I use it. Fine. My mom uses it. Are you. Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a try. @mintmobile.com switch.
- [30:36]
Kristen Bell
Upfront payment of $45 for three month plan. $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer, first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.
- [30:42]
Tori Weston
See mintmobile.com what does it feel like.
- [30:44]
Kevin Allison
To get hit by a car while you're biking? Or to be attacked by an alligator? Or learn that your spouse hired someone to kill you? If those are the kind of stories you find interesting, then what Was that Like? Is the podcast for you now? If you're thinking Cap, didn't you recently do a Risk Reacts episode where you listened to an episode of what Was that Like? Where the guy fell into that crevasse or crevice? Yes, what Was that Like? Is filled with real stories about the most surreal experiences of people's lives. On each episode, a guest comes on and tells about the time they found themselves in some sort of extreme, extreme situation. Could be an animal attack, a plane crash, winning the showcase on the Price is Right and more. This show brings you tons of completely surreal and completely true stories, all told through the lens of the person who lived it. I remember the one about the guy who got buried alive. The one where the woman's parachute failed. And over the years, we've become good friends with Scott Johnson, the creator and host of what Was that Like? As you know, we're so simpatico in what our podcasts do, so if you want to hear some unbelievable and inspiring firsthand stories, I invite you to check out what Was that Like? Every story's verified, so you know even the most bizarre tales are someone's reality. Listen to what Was that Like On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on the app you're using right now. Abercrombie is an official fashion partner of the NFL and I'm Ceedee Lamb, wide receiver for the Dallas Cowboys. You know I'm here for Abercrombie's Cowboys gear. That's not a question, but I need a whole wardrobe to go with it. No shade to the guys, but I'm used to having the best tunnel fits. This season, Abercrombie has me covered. Shop NFL by Abercrombie in the app, online and in store.
- [32:47]
Tori Weston
This message is sponsored by Greenlight. With school out, summer is the perfect time to teach our kids real world money skills they'll use forever. Greenlight is a debit card and the number one family finance and safety app used by millions of families helping kids learn how to save, invest and spend wisely.
- [33:01]
Kristen Bell
Parents can send their kids money and.
- [33:03]
Tori Weston
Track their spending and saving while kids.
- [33:05]
Kristen Bell
Build money, confidence and skills in fun ways. Start your risk free Greenlight trial today@greenlight.com.
- [33:12]
Tori Weston
Spotify that's greenlight.com Spotify.
- [33:17]
Kevin Allison
Okay, we are back. I am here with Tori Weston. And I'll tell you something, Tori. That story is just one that I can hear and be. I find something new in it every time I listen. And I am profoundly moved every time I listen. I feel like becomes, I don't know, even more relevant in some ways. How was it revisiting it for you?
- [33:53]
Tori Weston
I have to say the first thing I thought when I listened to it was, man, that was a brave girl.
- [34:01]
Kevin Allison
Yeah.
- [34:04]
Tori Weston
Yeah. Because it's been a while since I've listened to it and I was, I had my headphones on and I was walking while I was listening to it and I'm just like, wow, that was a very brave 13 year old. So.
- [34:21]
Kevin Allison
Amazing. Amazing. You know, like, I think I've always bristled when people refer to kids as, oh, well, kids are dumb. Kids don't know, kids are whatever, that kind of thing. Because I feel like kids have an enormous amount of intuitive knowledge, you know?
- [34:47]
Tori Weston
Yes.
- [34:47]
Kevin Allison
And like, as I, I think I mentioned before we came into this, that I actually have started teaching this story in my own online storytelling workshops. And so the students have to listen to the story and then listen to an analysis of it by me. And one of the things I find so fascinating in the story is how you, you, you, you keep yourself very much in the headspace of that 13 year old girl and you help us to understand how you were picking up cues and you were adapting, you know, you were learning to trust your own instincts that you were being gaslit in this way or that way.
- [35:44]
Tori Weston
Yeah, I think that was the biggest surprise when I re listened to it because I was like, wow, you know, what a amazing and scary thing to go through. But also the fact that for one reason or another, I really was in tuned with, all right, I'm paying attention to this and this doesn't seem right. And I'm trying to alert the responsible adults to ask them, are you seeing what I'm seeing or is this something that I. You are also finding out of place? And during the re. Listen, I like, it really brought me back to the time period that I told the story because at the time I had just finished my MFA program, I was taking an MFA program at Emerson College and I was also working there and I had like, was working on parts of that story in a memoir kind of setting. So there were definitely details that were fresh of like putting, you know, writing them down. But the part of the. I think there's a part where I am talking about just noticing little behaviors and details of my stepfather and just kind of bringing them up. And when I was doing the re listen, I was like, oh, wow.
- [37:21]
Tori Weston (narration)
That.
- [37:22]
Tori Weston
13 year old was so like, okay, I'm gonna bring this up and I'm gonna ask an adult. Is this weird? And just like listening to myself talk about those like, subtle details where I feel like as an adult I probably wouldn't have paid attention to that, but my 13 year old self kind of knew these things were out of place. So that was like, during the re listen, I was like, oh, wow. These are details that I had totally forgotten about that I had mentioned in the story. Yeah.
- [37:58]
Kevin Allison
Yeah. That's incredible. You know, I often think back to things that in. In popular culture, we didn't even have words for yet. I mean, in, you know, among ordinary people that, you know, ideas like for example, toxic masculinity that, as, you know, when I was in the third grade, I was totally tracking in a very sort of meta way, you know, and it wasn't something I was going to be able to feel like I could articulate to anyone. Not just because I didn't maybe yet have the words for it, but also because just like you in this situation, I was afraid that I would not be that. That speaking the truth would not go over well. Yeah, you know. Yeah, yeah, I was. You know, I. So I only started teaching these online workshops this past. This summer, like just within the past few months. So I hadn't heard the story in a long time. And when I re listened, one of the moments that just like knocked me out was in the grocery store when you find the wherewithal to have it coming out of your mouth to your mom.
- [39:36]
Tori Weston
Yeah, that was another part of, you know, being in that grocery store and the blurting it out as the cashier. And you know, one of the things I was thinking about as I was re listening to it because I could see my. When I was listening re listening to it, I was like, oh, I could. I could see myself in the grocery store and the height I was because I was, you know, I was sprouting up and how tall I was. So like the words coming out and my eyes were directed right at the cashier when I said it. And that was, that was also a memory. I was just like, oh, yeah, that's right. I was not even looking at my mother when I said that. I was looking at the cashier when I said that.
- [40:26]
Kevin Allison
Wow.
- [40:27]
Tori Weston
So just the fact that the words, you know, went across the counter instead of to the side was also another image. I was like, oh, wow, that's Right, I remember that. And then the rustling of the bag, like hurry, like my mom hurry up and putting things in the bag before we walked out of the grocery store. So that was like another part of the relistening where I was like, it's.
- [40:52]
Tori Weston (narration)
Such a.
- [40:55]
Tori Weston
Like a minute detail, but such a, like a significant detail in like how you, how the truth was told. Like this is the moment of saying something, you know, that I had been like trying to figure out how to say. And it's told like in a very public space.
- [41:15]
Kevin Allison
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's, it's fascinating because clearly part of your conscious mind, your conscious mind was trying to work on how am I going to say this? And some part of your unconscious, your subconscious mind was just like, I, I feel like, well, there, there has to be some, you know, pulling the ripcord. There has to be some, you know, maybe indirect or just what the fuck, this has got to happen. However it's going to come out. It's going to be like a bomb exploding. So I don't know, it's just got to come out.
- [42:01]
Tori Weston
And also just, I think one of the things I was thinking about when I was re. Listening to it was just like, oh yeah, that's right. The moment where, and I'm sure other people have felt this too, where you think I'm gonna say, my head says I should say this, but the truth just jumps right out your mouth.
- [42:22]
Kevin Allison
Yeah, totally. Totally. This past Christmas I came out, I considered it coming out, which caused a lot of confusion among all of my friends whenever I said it because they were like, you haven't come out to your family yet? And I was like, no, no, no, no, about moving. But I ended up coming out to all of my brothers and sisters over Christmas and then hesitated on breaking the news to my mom and my brother in law. Even just tossed out, you know, I don't know if you should even tell her at all. And I, you know, like that was a crazy thing to say because like, like that doesn't even feel feasible. And so I just wasn't sure when I was gonna tell her. And then there was just a day when we were on the phone and I did not expect that I was gonna say it and I just said it, you know, because I knew that that was, that that was gonna be very, very hard for her to, to wrap her mind around, you know, and that, that, that would be upsetting and disorienting in lots of ways. But you know what, let's back up a bit because I Was trying to remember the workshopping part of this story. So did you say you were wrapping up your mfa?
- [43:59]
Tori Weston
Yeah, I had finished up my MFA and I was running high school program. Like having high school students come during the summertime to Emerson when I was working there. And so the, you know, the writing part of trying to figure out like, is this going to be an essay? Is this going to be a book link thing? Like, I was still like, you know, taking writing courses there and, you know, just kind of figuring out like, how am I going to put this on the page? So at the time of, you know, when we started working on this story, I was still like working on, well, how is this gonna work on the page? Is this like a flash nonfiction? Is this a full on personal essay? So I was still like generating work and trying to figure out like, how is this. What kind of form is this gonna come out in? So working with you on the story kind of really like put perspective of, you know, especially that first time I told it was also just very, you know, standing up in front of a group of people saying it out loud was different than, you know, going to a reading and having the paper in front of me and reading.
- [45:18]
Kevin Allison
Oh, absolutely.
- [45:19]
Tori Weston
Yeah. Because I feel like, especially when you get your MFA in creative writing, I have this term that like, you know, you've been MFA'd. There's like certain style. So sometimes, like, what you're talking about isn't shocking. It's the form in which you are talking about it that people pay attention to. So it's like, oh, you're going to do a braided essay or you're going to do a list essay. So it becomes like a very writer geeky kind of thing. So to hear the response of when I stood up and I told the story and especially just going over, I think we started out with the. The details of the. The night that prompted me to tell, like, yeah, you know, and going. And I. When I first started, I think that starts off the story and the details of like, I was like, oh, I forgot about the nightgown over the face. And. And. And I was just like, wow. Like, I was kind of like, impressed. I was like, whoa. This was just like. We just jumped right in. We just jumped right in. And so that was the part that I was not anticipating. I had totally forgotten that we jumped right in into those details.
- [46:42]
Kevin Allison
So, yeah, that was the part that I remembered most vividly of the workshopping process. Because whenever someone brings a story about trauma to us, I always let the storyteller know. Look you. There are various ways you can handle it. You know, you can choose to, like, be a bit ambiguous or. Or summarize the trauma in a couple of lines, et cetera, et cetera. But this story is specifically about people pretending something that happened, didn't happen. You know what I mean? And in this case, I mean, I always feel like. And risk kind of is kind of all about this too, that to the extent that a storyteller is able to go back into detail about. About the traumatic moment, it's better to. I was thinking, you know, when I was thinking about this just the other day, I was thinking about the difference between Apocalypse now, the movie, and Heart of Darkness, the novel upon which it's based. And they both end very famously with the word. With the line, the horror. The horror. And I think one of the ways that Apocalypse now, it became so memorable and maybe more powerful in people's heads is it shows us the fucking horror. You know, we know what he's talking about at the end of that story.
- [48:28]
Tori Weston
Yeah. It's not someone on a boat telling a story to a bunch of other people. Yeah.
- [48:37]
Kevin Allison
So. Yeah, like that too strikes me every time I hear the story is like the extent to which I suggested that to you and that you were game because you don't want to, as the person coaching the story, you don't want to trigger the person having a, I don't know, flashbacks and, you know, whatever, to be re. Traumatized in any way. So you have to be sensitive and careful about approaching that sort of thing. But the way that you did show us details, like you said, of stuff like the nightgown. And also another thing that I point out in the workshop is that experience that you were having was so disruptive, disorienting, confusing, like overwhelming, that it kind of makes sense to disrupt and disorient and like catch the audience off guard. I mean, let me try to remember, are you. You're about to turn 13 in the story, right?
- [49:49]
Tori Weston
Yeah. So the moment happens six days before my 13th birthday. And also the story starts off with what happened earlier in the night. Like, you know, we had dinner, we're talking about my birthday party that's coming up and like all of the things. And then like, I think the, you know, and re listening to it, I'm like, oh, this was a good juxtaposition because it's not just like going into and bringing the listener into the actual events of the abuse, but it's also like, you know, being, like you said, being in my like 12 year old, 13 year old self and this horrible thing is happening and I'm thinking about a birthday party and what it's going to be like and just trying to place myself, something somewhere else while this is happening was another. Like when I was re listening to it, I was like, oh wow. The sensory details, the really getting into that mindset of. And I know now, having gone through a lot of therapy, that I am displacing myself in the moment. Like, you know, the trauma is happening but I am pretending I am somewhere else like while it is happening. And I think that like right out of the gate that I. When I was walking, I'm walking down Commercial street in Provincetown and I'm not sure like people have been to Provincetown, but like, you know, you can walk in the middle of the road and stuff. And I stopped when I heard that and I was like, wow. Like that is, you know, it's like an amazing detail but like, wow, we really brought people in it. Like, and then that to be the jumping off point for the story. Yeah, I was just like, oh, wow. Because I remember going back and forth and we were like trying to figure out how to begin it. And I had totally forgotten too about like those little details of talking about the trauma event. But then the mindset of I'm thinking about a birthday cake, I'm thinking about balloons, I'm thinking about these, you know, what a kid would think about, like and then having to then realize this traumatic thing happened. And I'm not sure how to tell the adults that this is go. This has happened.
- [52:19]
Kevin Allison
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that it's so important in stories like these for the person taking it in to reconnect with where they were at when they were 12 going on 13 to some extent to have some sort of like contextual framing for things because, you know, it's amazing. Like there's so much, there's so much talk in society about, you know, rapists and victims and child molesters and all of this stuff. And it's bizarre sometimes how often the children in these cases or the victims in these cases end up like as abstractions, you know, and we end up focusing mostly on someone like Epstein or Trump or whatever. And it's so important to connect with the point of view and that's exactly what's going on in this story. The point of view of the person who is 12 going on 13.
- [53:40]
Tori Weston (narration)
Yeah.
- [53:41]
Tori Weston
And I think one of the. You mentioned the victim being the abstract in Read the re. Listen, I was like, oh, yeah, that's right. I tell my mom at the grocery store, we get back to the house, there's the argument between the two of them, and then my stepfather leaves. But then there's that point in the story where the focus stops being on me and starts being on him.
- [54:13]
Kevin Allison
Mm. Yeah.
- [54:15]
Tori Weston
And. Yeah, and I. And I, like, thought, oh, you know, during the re. Listen, I was just like, that's right. It flipped because the minute, you know, he tried to kill himself was the minute where it's like, oh, our whole world is making sure that this person stays alive and this person. And then just kind of like, you know, it was when I was just like, wow, this is. It's sad and scary, but also shows a lot, like how we've gone a lot further in. You know, we now, like you said, we have words like gaslighting. You know, we have like, you know, you're a survivor. You know, there are textbook, you know, ways of showing how abuse works and the fact that like in the relist, and I'm like, wow, this is textbook. Like, you know, the coming, you know, forward and then the systematic. I think also I didn't realize how much this, you know, the story kind of exposes the systematic things that were in place at the time period. Because, you know, it's. This is the late 80s and so the mandated reporter, like, all of those things don't exist yet. So you have. Or the going to the hospital and how, like survivors or, you know, victims of sexual assault and rape are treated and you know, to overhear nurses talk about you in a way. And then real. Like I, like I said, I've said it before, like that 13 year old was so brave. But to know that the best alternative is to remain in the house with this abuser than to be with what the state is going to do and figuring out, like, how, like, I remember, you know, I still have the same therapist I had when I did this story. And I remember telling my therapist, you know, I'm about to do this podcast and we're going to. I'm going to tell the story and stuff. And I sent her the link and even she was like, the fact that you knew enough to figure out a way to keep you and your siblings out of the system because you somehow knew that it was far worse than your situation. She's like, that is the most amazing thing about this story is that you kind of had to step up and be the adult in a way where all the adults around me were failing. And that's the part sometimes I think in the re. Listen, that was the hardest part for me to re. Listen to is, you know, wow. I'm like, none of these adults couldn't, Couldn't do. Couldn't think about, like, oh, this is far worse. And it was, you know, me, the kid, being like, all right, here's the decision I'm going to make and this is how I'm going to follow through. So, yeah, that part was also just kind of jarring, too, because I was like, oh, my God, like, you know, I'm about to be. I'm about to turn 50 in January. And the thought of having to pivot to the, like, you know, the social worker. And I would say, like, one of the things I, you know, I have no idea where that girl is in life. I hope she's doing well. But that girl who was staying in a group home, who told me exactly what to do, you know, at the time I was telling the story, I didn't realize it, but she was the lifesaver. She was the one who said, do this this way. Don't come here. And this is what you need to do. And that piece of advice is what changes the trajectory. It changes the dynamic. And I, you know, like, I thought about that after the relist and I'm like, oh, wow, that girl saved us, you know, saved us. Like my. Saved me and my siblings. Because I, you know, I did exactly what she said. And, you know, there was. The social worker backed off, like, and, you know, yeah, I was still in this, like, house, but at least it was kind of like the devil, you know, like, I know how to navigate this.
- [58:52]
Kevin Allison
Yeah, right. Yeah. You know, it reminds me of, like, you know, we're thinking of systems of abuse and we're seeing, like, this horrifying rise of, you know, more and more abusive people getting more and more power right now. And I think of, you know, some of the activists of. From back in World War II talking about how little acts of self preservation and looking out for one another, mutual aid, little ways that people can rebel without making too many waves or whatever, can kind of keep surviving and navigating by keeping one another safe. That reminded me of that, too.
- [59:52]
Tori Weston
Yeah. And I also think about the, you know, when explaining to, you know, I had a couple of friends who listened to it. And that was, I would say, when the episode first got posted. And I remember, like, you know, I had a talk with my mom, I had a talk with my siblings and making sure that, you know, hey, this is going out into the world. And they had already read some of the essays that I was working on. But what the surprise thing was is that people who knew me at that time, who I went to school with and everything, a lot of them, I remember one of the someone I went to high school with contacted me and they're like, I had no idea idea this was happening to you at the time because, you know, I played field hockey with this person. I was still showing up at school and, you know, now this person is a teacher. And you know, they talked about how they were just like, I would have never known had I not listened. I would have never known that this was happening to you. And it goes also to show like, you know, the who gets. I think we get a, a mental picture of who the abused person is. Like, whether it's in law and order or whatever, like the pop culture shows us. But then, you know, one of the things I talk about with my therapist a lot is that like I was a high achieving student. So like I was, you know, in the honors classes. I was, you know, involved in school activities and stuff. And she talks of, you know, we were talking about that and she said, isn't it interesting how, you know, most people look at like, you know, suicide ideation or like drug use or like, you know, being depressed, but not a lot of people look at perfectionism and how like, you know, that student that is like, I need to be the best, I need to do this, I need to get straight A's. And I said, I was that kid. I was the kid who was like, you know, there's something horrible happening to me. But if I can be the best me that I can be and I can do all the things and I can get all the A's and get all the good grades, then I know that I'm a good person, then this is going to show me that I'm a good person, that something bad is happening to me. And I remember my therapist and saying that those are usually the kids who are going through the worst, you know, but no one looks and sees that, you know, oh, there are good grades or there's student council president there. And then inside you are like, you know, just falling apart. I mean, now I think nowadays, like there are perfectionism is something that you pay attention to. But like back then when there was no language for this, it's like, of course that kid's doing great. Look at, she just got to, she just got A's on all of her exams, right?
- [63:03]
Kevin Allison
Oh my gosh, yeah. That's another perfect example of what I was talking about, how this story is so powerful for it revealing what's kind of not being said or what your understanding that other people are trying not to see. It's interesting to me because I didn't really start learning about child abuse until I started creating Risk. And the first story that we ever featured on the show with child molestation as the central part of the story, what shocked me so much was it was another case where the actual child abuse was told in detail by the woman who told it. But what totally, like, shocked me was her family's refusal. I mean, at first, it was kind of like some of what you experienced in your family of just kind of a skirting around it, until finally it was just like, you know, there's a moment in that story where her mom was like, okay, you don't think that I had to deal with stuff like that, too? You know, like, literally just coming out and being like, you know what? Shut up and deal with it. You know? So it shocked me how much there was, like, this ongoing, almost in some ways, bigger trauma of not having the help from the adults.
- [64:49]
Tori Weston
Yeah, being.
- [64:50]
Kevin Allison
Yeah, shut up.
- [64:52]
Tori Weston
And that was one of the things. After the story was told, and I think after. When the Risk book came out, my cousin and his girlfriend had ordered a couple of books, and my cousin read it, and the first thing he said to me was, and I guess we can get to the next part of the story was he's like, you know, I was sitting at the table, too, that night.
- [65:15]
Kevin Allison
Oh, interesting.
- [65:16]
Tori Weston
Yeah. You know, because, you know, my stepfather moves back into the house, and, you know, my family was already religious, and, you know, my mom. Mom's doubling down on religious. And what I now know is, you know, is part of something called sanctified and suffering. Like, you know, you're putting all of your trust in the structure of the church. You know, instead of going to seek a therapist or whatever, you go see your pastor, you pray, you get Bible verses, you double down. And, you know, so the. The part of the story which, you know, there's a part of me sometimes that is like, I am. You know, I'm not religious anymore, but I do feel like that moment at the dinner table was some deep divine intervention because it was just like the perfect. You know, looking back on that, it's just like. That is like the perfect, perfect storm of revenge and sort of like, you know, like the power. Taking that power back. And my cousin was like, yeah, I remember him choking. And I thought it was the funniest thing happening. And he's like, you don't remember that I was sitting at the table? And I'm like, I don't. And then he recounted what he saw that night, and I was like, oh, wow. So, like, I was so focused on. And I said in that moment, the fact that I had to sit next to this person and the fact that we were pretending that everything was okay, and this person is pretending that they are this amazing parental figure. And, you know, I said, I probably, like. And I'm like, when I visualize it, I don't. I barely remember who was sitting around me. I just remember I was sitting next to him, and I had to be seated next to him. And my cousin thought that was interesting because he was like, oh, the minute he started. The minute you did the Heimlich maneuver, he's like, I started laughing my ass off. I was like, oh, my God. I'm like, if I. You know that. He's like, it was the. He's like, it was the funniest thing I thought. And, like, he didn't. You know, he had his own reasons for not liking my stepdad. But the, like, when he told me that, I was like, that is. He's like, yeah. He's like, I thought it was the funniest thing ever. I'm like, oh, this dude is choking. It's just like, who knew that there was a comic relief in that moment? And all I could think about was just the. The weight I was carrying. I never. I know I don't remember my cousin laughing or anything, but when he told me that, I'm like, I could see that. You know, I'm like, I get from your perspective how that would be hilarious.
- [68:10]
Kevin Allison
Because, oh, my God, what a trip. Yeah. And also, like, it's so powerful because the whole story is about, like, you having a clearer perspective or a deeper perspective of things that are going on in that house than other people seem to. And that's fascinating, you know, that. That. That people can be witnesses to the. To the exact same. You know, it's kind of like the Rashomon thing, where people can be witnesses to the exact same incident but have a different story about what ha. What was happening, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [68:55]
Tori Weston
It was. I would say, like, the. The lead up to that, like, you know, the. The cues of. You know, now that I've gotten older and I was able to speak with, like, aunts and even my mom about this incident, like, there was also the cultural and racial aspect of it that I, as a kid, did not see, you know, my grandparents, you know, they were transplanted southerners who moved up north. So you know, I now understand this as it's, you know, as I've gotten older, that we were also in an insular community. Like, you know, my grandparents were part of a group of southerners who moved up north. They only interacted with each other. They had their own way of dealing with things. So I remember talking to one of my sisters and she said, you know, the fact that I was vocal about it in a way where, you know, the older aunts and other people didn't have a chance to pull me aside and say, we don't talk about these things. Men sometimes do these things and this is what we do to protect you. But the fact that I was just like, nope, this happened. I am not shutting up about it. I didn't back down. And there was no time to show me how all these years or in the south or where they grew up, how they dealt with these things. So it was almost like, you know, my sister said, she's like, even back then you were a generational curse breaker because you did something that they as a community didn't know what to do. So when social workers got involved in another divine intervention moment was the fact that, you know, as the grandparents and some of the older adults were going to deal with it themselves. The fact that when the state came to take us, we were across state lines. So my stepfather's mom, like, you know, where I grew up in Rhode island is on the border of Rhode island and Massachusetts. So the fact that we went to stay with my stepdad's mom and his sister, they were across state lines so they couldn't take us out of the home because we were in another state. So the social worker had to come to, you know, my grandparents house. And you know, also I now as an adult know that my stepfather's family was what they call bougie black. They were upper middle class black people, they owned their own homes and all that kind of stuff. So they were economically different than my mom and grandparents because they were. I didn't realize that the difference, the class difference between my two grandmothers. So the fact that like when the social worker walked in the house and said, I've never been to a black person's house that was so clean. And my stepfather's mom was like, what do you mean? You know, all black people's clean houses are supposed to be dirty. And she's like, I own my home. We own this, all this land. We Own this. And the woman was very like taken aback. And that was another indicator of, okay, I got to get us out of this situation. I've got to get us out of this situation. Because the grandmothers were also kind of, for the first time in my childhood I saw, oh, my two grandmothers are united in hating this woman and they're getting along. So like the, I think observing the adults behaviors in this and realizing the class, it was the first time I ever realized the class difference between the two families. And I was like, oh, okay. And then I met with the social worker and that's when, you know, I was just telling. That was the first time I said, you know, I lied, this is why and everything. And then I called and told them that I lied. But it was that interaction also that made me see the. I didn't know the tension existed until that moment. But then after that moment happened, I couldn't unsee. I'm like, oh, they look down on my mom and my grandma because they see us as, well, poor or not poor, but like they are low class Southerners. And I remember overhearing my stepfather's mom saying, you know, which is, I know in the black community of that generation was a big deal. And she's like, we're not southerners that were slaves. We're from Nova Scotia and we were free. And that like, dichotomy of like, I didn't know I was also in the middle of a class issue. Like this whole thing was like, I'm like, okay, so not to say that the, you know, the adults should have shown up, but I could, I was seeing now the barriers of. So me saying that my stepfather's abusing me, me coming forward is also highlighting these problems that existed between these adults. And now no one can ignore the mental health issue, this issue. And so it just kind of like brought everything to head where people couldn't, could no longer ignore that yes, this person has some issues, this person should not be around children, this person needs help. And so I always like, you know, was kind of taken aback when in the moment of that. But then, you know, as I've gotten older and you know, time has passed and therapy and everything, I was just like, oh, this was something that everyone kind of knew about this person, but covered it up in a way because we don't talk about mental health, we don't talk about this. So kind of like there is that generational dealing with how we deal with these things that once I got, you know, I wasn't backing down I was very adamant about like, I don't care what I said to the social worker. This person did this to me. I am, you know, I don't want to be around this person. I'm going to protect my siblings, you know, and I was glad that my mother's mother, my grandmother, you know, my maternal grandmother, she really took it upon herself. And I mentioned that in the story.
- [75:49]
Kevin Allison
Yeah.
- [75:50]
Tori Weston
To make, to make it right and not in a very like, like how an adult would. Now I believe you, blah, blah, blah. Your story is important. It was like, yep, I am going to be the buffer and your mom still wants to be married to this person. So we're going to like, here's how we're going to handle this situation and you're going to be with me, your guys are going to be here, you're never going to be alone with this person. And when your mom finally figures out that this is not the person she should be with, I'm going to be there to also help her get through this. So it was like a weird generational thing too to see and I think that like, you know, once again that brave 13 year old, like who saw these subtle signs and the, I think for me the most heartbreaking thing was that every, I think every kid goes through a situation where they realize the adults in their lives know nothing.
- [76:51]
Kevin Allison
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [76:52]
Tori Weston
And that was the. The adults in my life know nothing. But I also realized that my grandparents generation does not know how to deal with this new place that their grandkids are growing up in. Like they're growing up in New England. They're growing up around different kinds of kids. They're not growing up in Jim Crow south, they're not growing up under the rules that they grew up under. They're not growing up in a segregated place. So I also feel like there was this new world that I was growing up in and I was existing in that I think my grandparents were very afraid of.
- [77:35]
Kevin Allison
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's, there's, in the story you definitely get the sense of the what will the neighbors think? Sort of Vibe, especially like within the church community and all that sort of thing. But. Yeah. Wow, that is fucking profound. All the layers of that.
- [77:55]
Tori Weston
Yeah. And I think that's what makes it like as a person who now I've run high school programs on a college campus and the, what we have in place, the mechanisms that we have in place, the laws that we have in place. You know, I always tell people I'm like, in the 70s and 80s, kids weren't people nowadays. Kids are people, right? You know, kids are treated like people. I'm like, you weren't treated like a person. You were there and you were supposed to be in a kid's place. You had your kid's job, you did what you're supposed to do, and you showed up where you're supposed to show up. And I said that, that there is a. Not to say that, you know, things like this don't still happen, but the fact that we have a better awareness of the signs and mechanisms that are in place, you know, is amazing. But, like, all what we had to go through and, you know, my generation and probably, you know, the generation before me had to go through in order for, like, these laws to be put into place is also, like, in relistening to the story I kept on thinking about, I have still to this day have no idea who told social services. I kind of suspect. I definitely think it was a classmate that said something to a teacher. But also the. The fact that, like, nowadays, like, you know, I work in Massachusetts, so, you know, if you don't report it, even if it's, you know, you think something is wrong, that you could be charged as, as an adult for not reporting something, like, that's a huge jump from what we used to have.
- [79:49]
Kevin Allison
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, it's funny, like, one thing that, that, that gets my goat when I hear people saying it on CNN or whatever it is. I've got this Trump and Epstein story front of mind these days, and sometimes some older person will say, well, it was a different time. And the first thing I think, whenever someone says something like that, I think, Well, I was 12 years old in 1982, and I knew that that was not legal, you know, for an adult to be doing, you know. So, yeah, there's that incredibly weird way that sometimes generationally there will be. I would just say, like, regardless of what the law is or regardless of what the church teaches or whatever, there are these subtle things that pass through culture that, you know, I mean, that's one of the reasons there's so much upset nowadays about the quote, unquote, woke consciousness is that a lot of that waking up and pointing out things that have been problematic for a long time is just very uncomfortable for people to face. And things that weren't spoken about so much before are being pointed out. And that makes some people really resentful, angry, ashamed, upset. You know, all these things of not wanting to deal with it, you know.
- [81:58]
Tori Weston
Like, and also not wanting to deal with the fact that, you know, I always tell people that the. It's always someone that, you know, that you trust that you're supposed to respect 100%, and that's the person that is most likely to abuse you. And I think one of the things that has come out of this, at least for, you know, my siblings, is, you know, one of my sisters, you know, in raising her kids, had been very like, your body's. Your body, nobody. She's like, I don't care who it is if we know them or whatever. If someone makes you feel uncomfortable. She was a parent that if they didn't want to hug anybody, she wouldn't let them. You know, she's like, no, if my kid doesn't want to hug you, they don't want to hug you. Yeah, I'm not going to force my kid. And so. And it was because, you know, as she said, I saw my. I saw the light in my older sister leave for a little bit. So she got to witness, you know, hearing her perspective when she listened to the story. And she said, yes. She's like, one minute you are. You were present, and then all of a sudden you were here, but you weren't here. And she's like. And that's when I knew it was true. What you said was true, because you weren't there anymore. And I always think about that. And, you know, the way that she, like, adjusted how. Well, when I become a parent, this is how I'm gonna teach my kids. I'm gonna make sure that they know that. She's like, I don't care if we're best friends with this person. If someone does something to you, you tell me, and we will do something about it. And it's one of those things where, like, I do appreciate the fact that, like, my sister, you know, she walked away with that. But I will say that the weird and I know has more to do with the way my mom was raised is that technically, my mother is still married to my stepfather. It is something that, like, they don't live together. They live in different states. But, you know, legally, they are still married. And it is something that, as an adult, I. I understand my mother a lot more, and I know that if she could go back in time, she would change it. But I definitely know there are this, for her generation of, you know, you are a Christian woman, and you remain with your husband, and those ties that, like, it's just like, I know. I've accepted that that's something that I cannot. That nothing I will say will undo. That. But it is. To see the hold it has on her, you know, has been heartbreaking in some ways, because I know that her generation was. So this is what you do. You don't.
- [85:01]
Kevin Allison
You don't walk away 100%. I'll never forget. Like, this takes me back. I must have been 16. And, you know, I was raised in a very, very devoutly Catholic family. And, you know, so we lived in a very Catholic town and all that sort of thing and were close to a lot of people in the parish. And, you know, divorce, I guess, at the time. I don't know what it is now, but at the time was, you know, totally, totally frowned upon by the Vatican. Like, there's some sort of rule that, like, it's not even possible in some sort of theological way, yada, yada. But I'll never forget. I won't say the woman's name, but they were close friends of our family, this couple, you know, close friend of my mom. And she was getting a divorce from her husband, and it was very upsetting to my mom. And then one day she got into the car to, like, drive me to soccer practice or something like that, and she looked kind of shaken, and she just had to get off her chest what was on her mind. And she said, I think I can accept now that Mrs. H. Is right to be seeking a divorce. I found out that Mr. H. Has been physically beating her, abusing her physically over the years. And I remember at that age just being like, that's what it takes. I was so, like, my jaw kind of dropped. I mean, I didn't say this to my mom, but I was like, oh, my God. That's what it takes is like, physically being beaten to convince you, yeah, she might have a case.
- [87:07]
Tori Weston
Yeah. But it is kind of like, you know, generationally, it's like. And I think I. You know, my sister and I talk about, like, having to be adults to then realize, like, also realizing how young my mom was at that moment. And, you know, my mom and I are 20 years apart, so just, you know, being like, oh, wow. Like, you know, here I am, like, you know, when I was in my 30s, you know, I'm still going out partying and stuff. My mom had four kids, a mentally unstable husband, and was trying to figure, you know, and I was just like, oh, okay. But also, just the hold of that, like, you know, you're standing in the church as a married woman elevates you. And those, like, social media, those unspoken social norms that, like, you know, I'm glad that Well, I mean, cross our fingers, who knows what will happen politically, but at least at this moment in time, like, more and more, you know, people are looking at, like, marriage very differently or kind of deciding. Like, you know, it's something that you don't have to do in order to leave your house. And you do have some financial independence and stuff. But, like, I always, you know, when I re. Listened to the story and I really. I thought of. I really thought about my mom in this moment, too, and, like, being like, oh, well, how do you navigate this when you've never really gone outside this community either? Like, you don't know what you have access to. And I lucked out in the sense that, like, you know, I was one of the first people in my family to go to therapy and to, like, I, you know, started going to therapy when I was 16. I had a counselor at the school, like, tell me that if you're 16 years old, you don't have to tell your parents that you come see me. You can come see me. And I was like, okay, well, here's what I need to tell you. And, you know, there was a while that, like, my mom, you know, When I was 16 years old, my mother did separate from my stepfather for a while. And so there was that too, like, the acceptance of, I don't have to have this person live under. Live in my home. You know, I understand now that this was going on also that, like, you know, mental health. This person has mental health issues. And I will say this. I mean, I've. I don't know how to frame this yet, but, like, two years ago, my stepfather came out as trans. And. Yeah. And, you know, my younger brother and sister are his bi. Well, they're biological children. And, you know, came out. And then, you know, my mother is still kind of grappling with that. And one of my siblings asked, well, what do you think? And I'm like, I support their transition, but they're still an abusive asshole. And I don't know if they've taken the steps to confront or deal with that. But at the same time, you know, when I was told, I was like, you know, okay, okay, this is.
- [90:51]
Tori Weston (narration)
This is a lot.
- [90:53]
Tori Weston
But it also, you know, I haven't spoken to them in a very long time. You know, I only have one sibling that continues to stay in contact. But my cousin, who was the one that, like, was laughing about the choking and stuff when he found out, he's like, wow, well, this is just another layer in this odd story. And I'm like, yes, it is. It's another layer and also another thing where, you know, you're like, all right, well, we can have two simultaneously things happen. And he was surprised when I. When I said, you still. I'm like, I support their right to transition. You know, I will always, you know, if that's who they truly are and everything. And maybe this will begin their healing journey or whatever. But I'm like, but I still have the right to be upset and angry and stuff, that this person was an abuser. And it's a complex. Like, you know, one of my friends was like, have you thought about writing about it? I'm like, I don't even know where to begin begin, you know, because it is something that, like, it makes me wonder a lot about the time period and everything. But at the same time, it. It's also a part of that generation of, you know, there was no language for these things. There was no. Not just, you know, excuse that person for doing what they did. But I do have a bit of empathy in the sense of, well, now we have ways that you can, you know, come out. There's information. You. There are. You're. You're not alone in those thoughts. And so I, like, there's a part of me and my friend was kind of surprised when I said this. I'm like, you know, I wonder if they were growing up at this time period where in the media there are trans people knowing that they have. They could have a life. They don't have to hide who they are. What could have this person been? And my friend's like, wow, you have a. You. I'm like, there's a. You know, I'm at the point where I have to, like, there is a bit. I have to have empathy. I can't carry this hate in me anymore. But at the same time, I'm like, you know, I was like, well, if my life was a movie, this would be a very interesting plot twist. Yeah.
- [93:52]
Tori Weston (narration)
I'm like, we have to.
- [93:53]
Tori Weston
I'm like, we have to find, you know, an interesting. I'm like, we have to find humor in a dark place at this. But it is like, you know, instance telling the story and everything. It is something that I will say that having my mom and my siblings be able to listen to me tell this story. It took a while for them to. For us to revisit and talk about that time, but it has opened up the dialogue for us to talk about that time period, and especially now that we're all adults to hear, like, I never would have heard my sister's perspective of how she saw me at that time, had I not told the story on Risk. And then she, like, when my niece and nephew were old enough to, when they, you know, they were old enough to listen to the story, for them to understand, like, yeah, this is a, you know, story your aunt told. We need, you know, this is also our family. Like, you need to understand that, you know, families are complicated and everything and for them to like, hear my perspective and my story and then they know that they could ask me questions and stuff. That also kind of added a layer for them to see that, look, you know, we will have complicated things happen to us, but we can also persevere. We can also, you know, have people to lean on, you know, and my sister, like, in having been so upfront with her kids about what happened to us, you know, my niece and nephews have grown up knowing that families are complicated. But like, their safety, their autonomy, you know, their well being is at the forefront and will always, you know, be at the forefront of us protecting them. So I think also them, you know, having them grow up knowing they have, they have the. No one has the right to harm them. And if someone does harm them, they have, they can come to me, they can come to their mom. They have a network of people that they can come to where they got to hear that I didn't know who to go to, I didn't know who to talk to, and I didn't. The burden was on me. So I think that when I like to think about the story and think about what I've been through, I realize that, you know, as one of my friends said, you're generational curse breaker because they grew up in a family that did not have secrets. And I grew up in a family with secrets. So at least like moving forward, you know, the next generation of my family now knows that, you know what, I don't have to keep that secret. I can be upfront and honest. Sometimes they're a little too honest, but I prefer that. But you know, that also is the power of that story too. Is that like they, it's not like, you know, a hidden secret what happened to their aunt. They know what happened and they know from, from my own mouth what happened. So I also feel like that is. I know a lot of families don't like, be like here, it's a podcast about why your aunt, sometimes it's the way she is. But like, you know, the fact that my sister was very. I like, I told her I like, I Appreciate the fact that you've. You've been so forward with your children about what we've been through. And the fact. The fact that, like, me doing the podcast and stuff has given her a way to kind of explain it a lot better was also like, yeah, that's incredible.
- [97:48]
Kevin Allison
I mean, that. That really encapsulates, you know, especially since the pandemic, we've had such a hard time keeping afloat with the podcast, and especially in 2025, all of a sudden, like. Because I had a therapist who used to tell me back in, like, 2016 or something like that, he used to tell me, I don't know if you know, how revolutionary the podcast you create is and how kind of what a contribution it is, because it makes a big difference to give people a place to be talking about these things that ends up changing things. And it's an antidote to, say, rising fascism, that sort of thing. And for some reason, I couldn't take that in back then. In 2016, in 2025, I'm like, oh, shit. I'm really feeling and experiencing it now. And this conversation right now, I think, is, like, the perfect encapsulation of that.
- [99:09]
Tori Weston
Yeah. And it's also just the power of so many people have access to something that I remember I was at the association of Writing Programs conference. It's the largest writing conference in North America. And someone had mentioned, oh, this is my friend Tori. And they're like, wait, are you the same Tori that did that episode on Risk? I was just like, yes, I am. And to hear someone say, like, that story you told about your stepfather, and the person could barely get what they needed to get out. And I'm like, yeah. She's like, thank you. Because it gave me permission to tell my own. And that was like, you know, the biggest compliment, because I was like, oh, like, you know, you. I've. You know, I. I know. I'm sure you do, too. Sometimes you forget, like, some of the stories that you've told, and, you know.
- [100:17]
Tori Weston (narration)
It was that it was, like, years.
- [100:19]
Tori Weston
After I had told it and the fact that someone associated my name with the story, but also was like, thank you for telling the story, because it gave me permission to tell my own. And I was just like, wow, okay.
- [100:35]
Kevin Allison
That's incredible.
- [100:36]
Tori Weston
Yeah.
- [100:38]
Kevin Allison
Well, I'm so glad we did this because, oh, my God, you're amazing. You are just amazing.
- [100:45]
Tori Weston (narration)
You're amazing, too.
- [100:46]
Tori Weston
I mean, I've been a fan of the podcast for so long, and even in my memoir class that I'm taking here In Provincetown, I have told people in my class, pitch a story for Risk. There are some very interesting stories being put together as we're writing this week. And I said, pitch a story to Risk, you guys. It's a great way to figure out how you want to tell your story, but it's also a great podcast to listen to other people's stories. And today they were writing it down. Oh, fabulous.
- [101:29]
Tori Weston (narration)
So cross our fingers.
- [101:30]
Tori Weston
Hopefully some of my people in my writing workshop will do that. But, like, yeah, And I have to say, Nick kind of backed it up. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you should do that. So.
- [101:41]
Kevin Allison
No, that's great. That's great.
- [101:44]
Tori Weston
Yeah. But it was interesting to just tell a whole new group of people who'd never heard of the podcast. And I'm like, oh, my God, you need to listen to this podcast. You need to contribute. You need to, like, tell a friend about it. So hopefully, like, you know, it'll keep going and more and more people will find out and. And everything. So.
- [102:03]
Tori Weston (narration)
But you.
- [102:04]
Tori Weston
This has been amazing. Like, I've. I've. I listened to. I listened to Risk pretty much almost every week, but there are times where I, like, you know, especially these times right now where I'm like, I need to be remembered that there are good people. I need to remember that there are funny people. And I will put on. I will binge some Risk episodes, and I'm just like, yes, we are going to be okay. Because, you know, we are going to be okay.
- [102:33]
Kevin Allison
Yeah. Yeah. That's incredible. Oh, thank you so much, Tori. This has been phenomenal. Awesome. And we should have you do another story soon. You know, I'm so thrilled that you're still, like, doing all this work around memoir and all of it.
- [102:54]
Tori Weston
Yeah, yeah, I'll. Yeah, I'll definitely might have some. A story in the works.
- [103:02]
Kevin Allison
Fabulous. And that is that. You can find Tori Weston on Instagram at Tori Weston, writer, artist. And she has a substack called Soundtrack of my life at Toriweston. Writerartist.substack.com Now, Tori wrote to us. At the time I first told this story, I was really struggling to write about this part of my life. Working with Kevin and the Risk crew not only helped me to write, but it was the push I really needed to let go and write my story. So remember, if you have a story that you might like to explore, I do one on one coaching. I also have online workshops, and we have a whole team of story coaches right here on the show, so you can reach out to me personally anytime@KevinRisk Show.com or to our pitches department where we take story pitches for the show at pitchesrisk-show.com and if you've got an old Risk favorite story that you think it would be interesting to hear us revisit the way I just did today with Tori, let us know. You can find us on all of the socials riskshow or hit us up at the Risk Podcast Fans Discussion group on Facebook and our Reddit is R riskpodcast. Folks, today's the day. Take a Risk.